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Speaker 1: On the Beck Doll Cast, the questions asked if movies

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Speaker 1: have women in um, are all their discussions just boyfriends

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Speaker 1: and husbands or do they have individualism the patriarchy? Zef

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Speaker 1: in best start changing it with the Beck del Cast. Hi,

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Speaker 1: and welcome to the Battle Cast. My name is Jamie Loftus,

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Speaker 1: my name is Caitlin Dronte, and this is our podcast

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Speaker 1: about the portrayal of women in movies. That's right. We

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Speaker 1: measure it sort of by the Beck Dold test, or

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Speaker 1: that's our jumping off point UM, which for us is

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Speaker 1: a test that requires that a movie has two female

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Speaker 1: identifying characters who have names, they speak to each other

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Speaker 1: about something other than a man, and their conversation has

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Speaker 1: to be at least two lines of dialogue. Bar pretty

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Speaker 1: easy to do, but some movies really struggle. I would

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Speaker 1: say most movies great transition into the movie and really

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Speaker 1: the body of work. This is a popular request for us,

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Speaker 1: and I would just say movies of this particular filmmaker,

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Speaker 1: people get a real freshman year attachment to this is

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Speaker 1: a peak, you know, like have you ever had sex

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Speaker 1: with a guy that has a French poster of Oh okay?

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Speaker 1: Hard to stop in but I've I've you know, I

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Speaker 1: feel like many people have had the experience of hooking

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Speaker 1: up with someone who has a framed poster of this

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Speaker 1: filmmaker in their house, and it is a real red flag.

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Speaker 1: I mean, less of a red flag than a lot

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Speaker 1: of directors, but yeah, not the biggest red flag, but

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Speaker 1: a little, a little, a little waving to say, hey,

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna try to explain something to you and soon. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: So the director we're talking about, of course, is West Anderson.

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Speaker 1: The movie we're covering today is The Royal Tenenbombs. First,

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Speaker 1: before we get into our heavy discourse, let's know, some

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Speaker 1: heavy flow discourse today. Yeah, let's introduce our guest. She's

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Speaker 1: a stand up comic. She is an actor, she is

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Speaker 1: a writer, and she's so wonderful. Jenny. Yeah, thank you

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Speaker 1: for having me, Thanks for being here. Let's do this.

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Speaker 1: Let's do it. Okay, So we're taking taking the Wes

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Speaker 1: Anderson bullet. No one's been brave enough apparently. But you know,

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Speaker 1: The Royal Tannon Bombs was like a movie I used

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Speaker 1: to consider one of my favorites. I think that's pretty common.

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Speaker 1: I I, well, when did you first see this movie?

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Speaker 1: What's your history with the movie. I mean, I feel

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Speaker 1: like I saw it in the early adds like everyone else,

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Speaker 1: you know, when it came out ish like, but like

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Speaker 1: not in the theaters. I forget if I saw it

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Speaker 1: in the theaters. I just remember it made a really

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Speaker 1: strong impression on me because I feel like I was

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Speaker 1: probably already raised so basic with pop culture that, you know,

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Speaker 1: to me, seeing a Wes Anderson moving like royal Tannon

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Speaker 1: bombs was like it blew my mind. I was like, oh, wow,

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Speaker 1: this is so stylized and so artsy, you know, and

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Speaker 1: so I I think that was like one of my

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Speaker 1: first tastes of something that wasn't just a typical popcorn movie. Yeah. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: And it really made an impression, I think, probably because

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Speaker 1: there's such a melancholy in the movie and it's really

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Speaker 1: about like a dysfunctional family, which, in a weird way,

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Speaker 1: even though I'm like not white, um, I related to

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Speaker 1: them somewhat, you know. Was sort of like a messed

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Speaker 1: up patriarch kind of a storyline. And I just like

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Speaker 1: the sort of droll like irony and sense of humor

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Speaker 1: in it because it was still like pretty new and

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Speaker 1: like interesting at this point where I feel like a

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Speaker 1: lot of people have exhaustion with it now, but oh

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Speaker 1: one Wes Anderson, we're talking peak West Andrewson fresh and

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Speaker 1: this was one of his earlier ones. Yeah, before this,

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Speaker 1: of the features, he did Bottle Rocket and Rushmore and

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Speaker 1: I think maybe that's it as far as his like

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Speaker 1: notable features. Yeah, but those are like the only the

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Speaker 1: movies that like indie film nerds kind of Guilty is Charged.

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Speaker 1: But yeah, so I think I also saw this, not

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Speaker 1: in the theaters, but shortly after it came out. I

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Speaker 1: think it was my first exposure to Mr Wes Anderson.

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Speaker 1: At the time, I was like, Yeah, I'm into this.

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Speaker 1: I like the production design, the cinema tug, all the

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Speaker 1: meson sin. I was all for it. And now I

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Speaker 1: go back and I revisit this or I see other

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Speaker 1: Wes Anderson movies and I'm reminded that they usually story

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Speaker 1: wise for me, this I think we were because we

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Speaker 1: watched this movie together. I have seen this movie before,

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Speaker 1: I think at some point in college. But and I

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Speaker 1: think that this Jenny, I'm interested in your take on this.

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Speaker 1: But so far, with people we've talked to, there's a

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Speaker 1: lot of Wes Anderson movies that you know you've seen,

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Speaker 1: but you cannot remember anything that happens in the movie,

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Speaker 1: and you're like, oh, that's the one about camp And

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Speaker 1: then if someone's like, well, what happened. We were asking

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Speaker 1: Jack O'Brien at how stuff works. He was like, oh, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I loved I think he said like of Aquatic. I

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Speaker 1: was like, oh, what is that one? He's like, uh, Submarine.

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Speaker 1: I was like, oh yeah, I love that, and you

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Speaker 1: cannot tell me one thing that happens, but I don't

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Speaker 1: know what it is. Most of his movies tend to

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Speaker 1: explore kind of the same themes, but it's not like

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Speaker 1: they're totally with you. I mean, Darjeeling Limited is just

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Speaker 1: straight up a bad one, but like they're not boring movies.

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Speaker 1: There's stuff that's happening, but maybe it's just so stylized

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Speaker 1: that that's all you can retain, or it's just I

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Speaker 1: don't know. I know I've seen at least three Wes

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Speaker 1: Anderson movies. Couldn't tell you what happens in one of them.

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Speaker 1: It's just like, I feel like, if you've studied music,

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Speaker 1: there's not a lot of dynamics in a Wes Anderson movie.

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Speaker 1: It all kind of just the notes just kind of

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Speaker 1: center around this middle part, right, emotional notes, energy, right,

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Speaker 1: it just kind of stays right, pretty static. Yeah. Right, So,

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Speaker 1: so I feel like and the look of it is

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Speaker 1: all kind of in that same kind of like you know,

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Speaker 1: early Instagram filter, right and pretty wide, way too much headroom. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: like we're living. Yeah, It's it's all just that, right,

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Speaker 1: And so that's why I feel like, you know, visually,

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Speaker 1: two people will just kind of confuse one West Sanderson

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Speaker 1: movie with another. It's like we're living inside of like

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Speaker 1: a thrift store diorama, you know, and so and they're

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Speaker 1: just swapping out these dioramas. But but for me, though,

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Speaker 1: I feel like, maybe, you know, Bottle Rock, it might

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Speaker 1: have been a little different, but I feel like it

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Speaker 1: was Royal Tannon Bombs that really set the tone for

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Speaker 1: like the look of his more commercially successful films after that, right, absolutely, yeah,

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Speaker 1: And so I feel like I feel like, no matter what,

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Speaker 1: Royal Tannon Bombs might stick out a little more for

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Speaker 1: people in terms of being memorable. But yeah, after that,

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Speaker 1: it's gets kind of blurry. It's kind of yeah, the

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Speaker 1: tone is sort of set with this movie, and then

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Speaker 1: you're like visually and I'm sure you know, people who

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Speaker 1: know a lot about film know the specifics, but like,

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Speaker 1: visually frame from Royal Tannon Bombs and frame from moon

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Speaker 1: Rise Kingdom the same fucking things. Like it's like and

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Speaker 1: now it's not even a bad thing. It's okay to

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Speaker 1: have consistency throughout a body of work. But the Wes

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Speaker 1: Anderson theory. If you are listening and you consider yourself

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Speaker 1: a fan of Wes Anderson's work, I defy you try

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Speaker 1: to uh summarize one of his movies and not just

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Speaker 1: have it be like, that's the one about dogs, that's

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Speaker 1: the one about camp, that's the one about underwater, that's

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Speaker 1: the one about I don't know Bill Murray's in it.

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Speaker 1: Like that, Oh, I think that serves as a great

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Speaker 1: transition to the recap, which I will try my best

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Speaker 1: to do. I just watch the movie twice and I

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Speaker 1: still don't. Okay. Basically, we learn about this family of

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Speaker 1: Tenant Bombs. The patriarch is Royal Tenant Bomb played by

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Speaker 1: Jane Hackman. He's married to Ethelene. They have three kids, Chaz,

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Speaker 1: Margot and Ritchie, and they're like a bunch of baby geniuses.

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Speaker 1: They're these very accomplished kids who like do a lot

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Speaker 1: in their youth and they're very exceptional, and and that's

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Speaker 1: pulled um a bunch of different sources. Where the Magnificent

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Speaker 1: Anderson's is an Orson Wells film that's referenced pretty heavily

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Speaker 1: in this, and then it's also referencing J. D. Salinger's

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Speaker 1: Glass Family. I believe you're called so Wes Anderson he's

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Speaker 1: pulling from other male ahturs of note of like the

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Speaker 1: White family that's really smart but tragic, Like that's he's

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Speaker 1: clearly pulling from that sort of stock story, right. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: So it's this family of like exceptional young kids and

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Speaker 1: the plarents split up when they're fairly young, and they

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Speaker 1: kind of estranged themselves from Royal Tenenbaumb until a few

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Speaker 1: things happen where he gets kicked out of his hotel

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Speaker 1: room and he's broke and he doesn't really know what

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Speaker 1: to do, so he decides to reconnect with his family

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Speaker 1: under the ruse of telling them that he is dying

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Speaker 1: so they will basically take sympathy on him and be

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Speaker 1: more willing to reconnect with him. So this happens for

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Speaker 1: a while where the family who had kind of drifted

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Speaker 1: apart over the years, gets back together. They're all under

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Speaker 1: one roof again where Ethylene lives. Ethylene is considering getting remarried,

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Speaker 1: yes to Henry played by Danny Glover right, and then

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Speaker 1: all of the kids have kind of they were exceptional

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Speaker 1: in their youth, but they've kind of like leveled out

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Speaker 1: and they're not that great anymore, or they're just not

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Speaker 1: exceptional the way they were when they were kids. So

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Speaker 1: they're sort of reconnecting, and over the course of a

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Speaker 1: few days or so, um, it comes out the Royal

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Speaker 1: is not actually dying of stomach cancer like he says

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Speaker 1: he is. Uh, he just made that all up so

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Speaker 1: that people would take pity on him and want to

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Speaker 1: hang out with him again. So then he gets kind

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Speaker 1: of cast away again. But the family is still sort

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Speaker 1: of like working through their issues and their relationships with

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Speaker 1: each other in that like two of them are in love.

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Speaker 1: But it's fine. It's fine because Margot is adopted Paltrow.

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Speaker 1: So basically the story ends with the family reconnecting just

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Speaker 1: as Gene Hackman's character wanted, but under unusual circumstances, and

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Speaker 1: so flash forward, he dies, and then the movie ends

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Speaker 1: when the company Goop is is founded. Marco has a

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Speaker 1: wild idea. What is she founded the most annoying company possible?

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Speaker 1: Then goop starts, Wait does that happen? No, Like I'm

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Speaker 1: talking about Gwyneth two snail cream. Oh okay, I am

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Speaker 1: aware of Gwyneth and her products, Gwyneth her content. You know,

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Speaker 1: I would say live in ignorance with Gwyneth and her products.

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Speaker 1: It's a lot okay. Yeah, So yeah, that's basically the story,

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Speaker 1: and there are some interesting things to talk about there. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I guess I guess so much, so much, yeah, or

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Speaker 1: so little. There's I don't know, Like I have a

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Speaker 1: lot of notes for this. It's but it's hard to

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Speaker 1: know where to star. Well, so there's two main female

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Speaker 1: characters of any note in, Margot played by Gwyneth Patro

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Speaker 1: and Ethylene played by Angelica Houston. Right, So the first

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Speaker 1: opening sequence of the movie is our introduction of the

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Speaker 1: young Tenembombs, and we learn a little bit about the

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Speaker 1: children and then the parents as well. So with like Ethylene,

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Speaker 1: we learned that her main concern was the children's education,

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Speaker 1: and then it pretty quickly cuts away from her it

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Speaker 1: goes to Chaz. We learned about him loving finance, he

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Speaker 1: bread Dalmatian mice. He was a real estate mogul as

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Speaker 1: a small child. Then we learned about Margot. We learned

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Speaker 1: that she is adopted. She is a playwright. Um. We

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Speaker 1: see her in a dark room, we see her doing ballet. Um.

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Speaker 1: She camps out in a library for a while with

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Speaker 1: her brother Richie. She's not like the other girls, right,

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Speaker 1: she smokes and she's I don't know, there's And then

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Speaker 1: we learned about Ritchie, who was a stark tennis player.

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Speaker 1: We see him playing with a ham radio. He has

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Speaker 1: a drum set, He paints pictures of Margo. He has

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Speaker 1: a bird named Mordecai. And then we learned about Royal

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Speaker 1: and that he was a litigator until he was disbarred

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Speaker 1: in the mid eighties. So we're getting an introduction to

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Speaker 1: all these characters. It feels as though the two women

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Speaker 1: that we learned about, I don't know, they just feel

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Speaker 1: more glossed over or like. The only accomplishment that is

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Speaker 1: noted for Margo is that she won like the Braverman

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Speaker 1: Grant in ninth grade for a play she wrote. But

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Speaker 1: for the boys, it's like, oh, they did this thing,

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Speaker 1: and they did this thing, and they did this thing.

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Speaker 1: And did, and then Ethelene is like basically just described

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Speaker 1: in the context of her being a mother in that sequence.

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Speaker 1: So right away, I feel like it's sort of that

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Speaker 1: whole thing lays the groundwork for how the female characters

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Speaker 1: will be treated throughout the rest of the movie. It's

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Speaker 1: interesting because it's it's like the story has like the

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Speaker 1: skeleton of female characters that could be well developed if

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Speaker 1: the movie was going to like invest time in it.

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Speaker 1: Like we know that Ethleene is an archaeologist and a

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Speaker 1: really good one, Like she has this career, and and

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Speaker 1: there's enough there that we could explore something outside of

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Speaker 1: how she behaves as a mother and a wife. But

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Speaker 1: that's all the movie really chooses to explore it, which

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Speaker 1: is frustrating because she's like, well there's more, there's more there,

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Speaker 1: but it just we just don't really get to see it. No,

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Speaker 1: we don't, you know. When I was watching, I kind

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Speaker 1: of like looked at like when the women said lines,

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Speaker 1: and it really wasn't until like a third of the

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Speaker 1: way in that, like Ethelene finally talked to her daughter. Yeah, everyone,

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Speaker 1: it was like a while, and even before that, each

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Speaker 1: of them got maybe one or two lines, right because

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Speaker 1: in terms of like the Bechdel tests, like you're like, well,

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Speaker 1: that's going to be the scene that would pass if

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Speaker 1: we get to see these characters together at all, Like

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Speaker 1: and it's just kind of the question of like will

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Speaker 1: we get to see them together? And it takes a

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Speaker 1: long time, which is kind of a bummer too because

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Speaker 1: Ethelene and well, I guess if we start with Royal,

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Speaker 1: Royal has medi substantial scenes with all three of his children,

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Speaker 1: with some of them more than once. Evelyne kind of doesn't.

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Speaker 1: We see her interact with all three of her children,

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Speaker 1: but it's not with the same amount of depth. It

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Speaker 1: doesn't reveal as much about her character. It sort of

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Speaker 1: exists more to tell us about her kids and not

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Speaker 1: really anything about her, where the Royal scenes are either

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Speaker 1: like equal of like we're learning about him and his

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Speaker 1: child or we're just learning about him and like why

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Speaker 1: he is a liar or why you're something about his past,

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Speaker 1: Where I mean we learn a lot about Royal Tenan

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Speaker 1: bombs past, we don't really learn we learned about Ethelyne's

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Speaker 1: past as it pertains to Royal. I think that's what's

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Speaker 1: messed up about this is that it is about a

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Speaker 1: dysfunctional family that is dysfunctional primarily in response to how

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Speaker 1: messed up Royal is, right, the patriarch, and so this whole,

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Speaker 1: this whole story is surround being sort of royal driving

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Speaker 1: what's happening. Right, So he's like wants to get back

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Speaker 1: in with the family so that he can intervene and

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Speaker 1: really have a relationship. So he's always the one trying

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Speaker 1: to instigate something or call one of his kids out,

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Speaker 1: whereas Ethylene only serves as like a typical female counterbalance,

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Speaker 1: kind of patriarchal counterbalance to that, which is like she's

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Speaker 1: the one to soothe, to coax to like yeah, exactly,

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Speaker 1: she's to clean up the messer. And obviously that's probably

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Speaker 1: reflective of their relationship. And I think that it poses

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Speaker 1: the same question I always have, which is, if say,

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Speaker 1: we do want to talk about how messed up the

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Speaker 1: patriarchy is, you know, and we write a story about it,

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Speaker 1: how much is that just simply continuing to put a

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Speaker 1: spotlight on the men to reflect to you know what

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Speaker 1: I mean, rather than really dismantling it or in doing it.

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Speaker 1: And I think that's what's tough. You know. On the

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Speaker 1: one hand, like if I have a similarly messed up

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Speaker 1: kind of patriarchal dad, and I want to write about

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Speaker 1: that to dissect it. Does that mean I'm giving more

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Speaker 1: power to that person's voice, you know what I'm saying,

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Speaker 1: Like like because we're because we're still saying Royal is

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Speaker 1: the one taking the action. He's he's getting protagonists. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: he gets all the fun scenes. I think, Yeah, I

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Speaker 1: think that that is part of it. Yeah, Like the

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Speaker 1: movie isn't critical enough of him where he is, Like

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Speaker 1: the way that like misogyny is displayed through Royals is

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Speaker 1: like lighthearted and you can imagine a giggle in the

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Speaker 1: movie theater cheeky. Yeah, and the same with when he's

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Speaker 1: like being racist against Danny Glover's character is like, oh,

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Speaker 1: just an old guy being an old guy, and it

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Speaker 1: normalizes it pretty quickly in the context of the movie.

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Speaker 1: And and then at the end, what what I mean,

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Speaker 1: I forgot literally everything that happened in this movie, But

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Speaker 1: I definitely forgot the end where I feel like we

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Speaker 1: we get close to criticizing Royal when he's kicked out

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Speaker 1: of the house and they're like, no, fuck you, you

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Speaker 1: can't lie to us anymore. You're you're cast out. But

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Speaker 1: then in the end, you know, he does sort of apologize,

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Speaker 1: but that was even that was like, did he really

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Speaker 1: And then at the end he dies and sort of

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Speaker 1: the takeaway of the movie is like, well, if he

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Speaker 1: hadn't a lot all those times, the family wouldn't be

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Speaker 1: back together. And I was just like, oh, so we should.

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Speaker 1: So it ends up being completely uncritical of the patriarchy

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Speaker 1: and the patriarch in that they're like, well, yeah, mistakes

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Speaker 1: were made, but families chill now, And it wouldn't have

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Speaker 1: been if he hadn't like faked cancer and gas light

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Speaker 1: his whole family. Like I was just like, no, what

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Speaker 1: they're like the consequences of this, Uh, the Shenanigans actually

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Speaker 1: was kind of good if he worked out. If we

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Speaker 1: end this movie with like and we've cast out the

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Speaker 1: patriarch who clearly has no respect for us or himself,

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Speaker 1: and uh, well we're all here, so let's hang out

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Speaker 1: and keep him out of our lives. That's a maybe

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Speaker 1: less movie. I mean, it's one of those we talked

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Speaker 1: about this. Uh. I think on our How the Grinch

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Speaker 1: Stole Christmas episode and on our Muppet Christmas Carol episode

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Speaker 1: about the male redemption stories that we see so much

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Speaker 1: of where it's like, like, sure, if you want to

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Speaker 1: make a movie about a dysfunctional family and how everyone

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Speaker 1: is messed up as a result of at least one

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Speaker 1: of the parents disservicing their children in some way, great,

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Speaker 1: that's an interesting story, but like, why do we have

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Speaker 1: to hear it from the point of view of the

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Speaker 1: person who did the messing up? Like why can't we?

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Speaker 1: I mean, you know there are movies that explore it

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Speaker 1: from different points of view, but it's just like, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I just I have so little patience to the point

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Speaker 1: where the movie is named after the yeah, like yeah,

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Speaker 1: it it ends up. There are moments where it approaches

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Speaker 1: being critical, but ultimately he's a redumable character. He ends

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Speaker 1: up think everything he wanted, which was the relationship with

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Speaker 1: his family, which he got after years of lying, and

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Speaker 1: then kind of a half past apology. So that's all.

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Speaker 1: It takes great lifetime of trauma and therapy. No, no way,

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Speaker 1: like just a sorry maybe just like might be like

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Speaker 1: what are you talking about? I don't know, Yeah, the

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Speaker 1: male redemption story and then there's a lot of men

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Speaker 1: who are redeemed in the course of this story. Royal

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Speaker 1: is the main one. But I think also with Richie,

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Speaker 1: there's sort of like a redemption story told there. Should

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Speaker 1: we jump into him and Margot? Now, yeah, this very

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Speaker 1: bizarre romantic relationship is established between Ritchie, who is a

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Speaker 1: biological tenenbomb, and Margot, who is an adopted Tenan bomb.

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Speaker 1: This is the premise of the most searched porn on porn. Okay, yeah,

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Speaker 1: like you see that, You're like, this is this is

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Speaker 1: a Wes Anderson thing. There must be a Wes Anderson

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Speaker 1: Richie and Margot. I'm gonna go search after this CP incognito.

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna do it in plain sight. I don't care

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Speaker 1: who knows. I'm going to Starbucks right now, gorgeous symmetrical pornography.

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Speaker 1: A Kink song is playing in the background this time tomorrows.

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Speaker 1: I mean, they have face flopping technology, so who knows.

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Speaker 1: Maybe it's you know, kind of a joint. Okay. So

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Speaker 1: this this relationship is established where for the most part

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Speaker 1: we see Richie like pining over Margot. He's painting pictures

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Speaker 1: of her, he's waiting at the bus stop for her. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: but then whenever it comes out finally that they basically

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Speaker 1: confess their love for each other, and at this point

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Speaker 1: we don't really know that Margot had loved him. We

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Speaker 1: only find out in that moment because we're seeing most

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Speaker 1: of the nature of their relationship through Richie's point of view.

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Speaker 1: So one, I find it weird that we don't know

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Speaker 1: how she feels about totally. That's her reaction whenever he's

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Speaker 1: like I love you, and she's like, I love you too,

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Speaker 1: and then they kiss, and then they lie down and

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Speaker 1: a tent together, like we didn't know because she is

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Speaker 1: married to Bill Murray's character Raleigh, and then also was

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Speaker 1: having an affair with Eli Rock and not Eli Rock,

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Speaker 1: like so yeah, so she was. She's engaged in multiple

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Speaker 1: relationships with men, which means that she is the object.

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Speaker 1: I feel like Margot's main purpose in the story is

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Speaker 1: to be the object of several men's affection. The same

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Speaker 1: for Ethelene, where it's the push and pull between like

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Speaker 1: is Royal gonna rope her back in? Or is she

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Speaker 1: going to marry Henry? There's no option presented where she

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Speaker 1: can be single. Kind of the same for Marco. And

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Speaker 1: there's those two montage scenes in regards to those characters

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Speaker 1: that I wanted to talk about where there's a lot

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Speaker 1: of montage scenes in all of wes Anderson's work, and

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Speaker 1: and these aren't the only ones that appear, but the

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Speaker 1: two montage scenes that are specific to Marco and to

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Speaker 1: Ethylene are almost exclusively about their sexual history. Yes, well,

387
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Speaker 1: in Margot's case, not all meant but mostly right, where

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Speaker 1: Like we see highlights from Margot's life and it's like

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Speaker 1: she starts to smoke, she leaves school. The rest is

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Speaker 1: for sexual right, and then for Ethylene, it's here are

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Speaker 1: the men that she's dated since she and Royal tennan

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Speaker 1: bomb broke up, and then we get finally to Henry,

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Speaker 1: who is the new man in her life. So there's

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Speaker 1: no there's really no ambiguity about like what matters to

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Speaker 1: the story with these characters, where there are other elements

396
00:23:09,960 --> 00:23:13,159
Speaker 1: of their lives. But that's not what wes Anderson and

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Speaker 1: co writer Owen Wilson really want your attention on, right,

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Speaker 1: because we don't see any such montages like that of

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Speaker 1: characters romantic or sexual histories with any of the male characters,

400
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Speaker 1: noticed only with Ethylene and Margot, which is a very

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00:23:28,760 --> 00:23:33,200
Speaker 1: deliberate choice and a very glaring they do give. They

402
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Speaker 1: give Ben Stiller's character a different trope, which is the

403
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Speaker 1: good old fashioned dead wife his wife, and they do

404
00:23:41,320 --> 00:23:44,200
Speaker 1: go to see her gravestone, much like in The Rock

405
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Speaker 1: his favorite movies. Yeah, Ben Stillers and the and his

406
00:23:50,680 --> 00:23:54,320
Speaker 1: wife who we never meet, but her death is the

407
00:23:54,359 --> 00:24:00,359
Speaker 1: main thing that defines his character is dealing with and

408
00:24:00,400 --> 00:24:04,520
Speaker 1: how that has manifested in him being extremely overprotective of

409
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Speaker 1: his two sons and being like very overly concerned with

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Speaker 1: their safety. That's a part of the movie I didn't dislike.

411
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Speaker 1: I thought it was like kind of nice and a

412
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Speaker 1: little unusual to see a single father definitely being overbearing,

413
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Speaker 1: but being a pretty solid parent throughout the movie, Like

414
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Speaker 1: definitely overprotective, but usually like if you see a single father.

415
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Speaker 1: You don't see a lot of single fathers in movies

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Speaker 1: at all, um, but especially like if you do see

417
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Speaker 1: a single father, he's fucking up and he you know,

418
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Speaker 1: he doesn't get it, can't relate with his kids or whatever.

419
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Speaker 1: And I mean to like the Chad's tennem bomb character

420
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Speaker 1: is a good dad who clearly is suffering from PTSD.

421
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Speaker 1: But but I agree, Yeah, but also Ben still is

422
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Speaker 1: just really good at playing nervous. He's great and yeah,

423
00:24:57,280 --> 00:24:59,680
Speaker 1: and then the best visual pun in the whole movie

424
00:24:59,760 --> 00:25:04,160
Speaker 1: is a the end when Royal tenan bomb does Ben

425
00:25:04,200 --> 00:25:06,880
Speaker 1: still learn his son's show up in black track suits

426
00:25:07,240 --> 00:25:09,800
Speaker 1: to the funeral because they have been in red Adida's

427
00:25:09,840 --> 00:25:12,639
Speaker 1: track suits up until that point. They switched it up

428
00:25:12,680 --> 00:25:15,760
Speaker 1: out of respect. These characters do not stray far from

429
00:25:15,800 --> 00:25:21,200
Speaker 1: their costume design solid aesthetic um. Back to the relationship

430
00:25:21,240 --> 00:25:27,479
Speaker 1: between Margot and Richie, I mean, why was the choice made.

431
00:25:27,720 --> 00:25:31,040
Speaker 1: I mean, it's not technically an incestual relationship because they're

432
00:25:31,080 --> 00:25:33,959
Speaker 1: not related by blood, but it's weird. I mean, I

433
00:25:33,960 --> 00:25:38,240
Speaker 1: feel like it it introduces, like, in theory, if we

434
00:25:38,480 --> 00:25:41,879
Speaker 1: paid a little more attention to the Marco character outside

435
00:25:41,880 --> 00:25:44,399
Speaker 1: of how she relates to the men, you know, or

436
00:25:44,560 --> 00:25:48,480
Speaker 1: how she furthers the male stories, we don't need that

437
00:25:48,840 --> 00:25:52,119
Speaker 1: romance at all. Really, Like, if if you took the

438
00:25:52,200 --> 00:25:58,080
Speaker 1: time spent on Margot and Richie's not incestual relationship and

439
00:25:58,280 --> 00:26:02,600
Speaker 1: put that into flashing out the background of Margot and

440
00:26:02,640 --> 00:26:05,960
Speaker 1: of Ethylene a little more, you almost like don't really

441
00:26:06,520 --> 00:26:10,359
Speaker 1: need it. I don't hate that it's there, but I

442
00:26:10,400 --> 00:26:13,560
Speaker 1: do think that it just, yeah, it kind of takes

443
00:26:13,560 --> 00:26:16,600
Speaker 1: away from Margot's character quite a bit because it's like

444
00:26:16,680 --> 00:26:18,800
Speaker 1: even the first time you see Margot as an adult,

445
00:26:19,119 --> 00:26:21,879
Speaker 1: it's such a male, like a kind of a comically

446
00:26:22,080 --> 00:26:25,199
Speaker 1: male gazy shot where she gets off the bus and

447
00:26:25,280 --> 00:26:29,880
Speaker 1: it's like slow motion and he loves her, and you're like, wait,

448
00:26:29,960 --> 00:26:33,600
Speaker 1: but he's her brother, and you know, I don't know.

449
00:26:33,640 --> 00:26:35,080
Speaker 1: I guess I don't know where I fall in that

450
00:26:35,200 --> 00:26:38,920
Speaker 1: well for me. So after the family discovers that Royal

451
00:26:38,960 --> 00:26:43,640
Speaker 1: had been lying about having cancer, that's like halfway through

452
00:26:43,640 --> 00:26:45,560
Speaker 1: the movie, which means there's a whole half of the

453
00:26:45,600 --> 00:26:48,000
Speaker 1: movie to go. And where the plot goes from there

454
00:26:48,160 --> 00:26:52,800
Speaker 1: is basically focusing on Richie and Margot's relationship, with a

455
00:26:52,840 --> 00:26:56,240
Speaker 1: few of the subplots like weaved into that, but that's

456
00:26:56,640 --> 00:27:00,800
Speaker 1: largely what the narrative focuses on. Three big things that

457
00:27:00,840 --> 00:27:04,000
Speaker 1: evanced the narrative in this movie are Royal lies to

458
00:27:04,040 --> 00:27:07,960
Speaker 1: his family. That's the first phase. Second phase, which I

459
00:27:08,000 --> 00:27:12,280
Speaker 1: think is done pretty irresponsibly by this movie, is Ritchie

460
00:27:12,320 --> 00:27:14,399
Speaker 1: tries to kill himself. That's what brings the family together

461
00:27:14,480 --> 00:27:19,200
Speaker 1: the second time after they disperse. And the third thing

462
00:27:19,240 --> 00:27:22,800
Speaker 1: that brings everybody together is Ethylene decides to marry Henry,

463
00:27:22,840 --> 00:27:25,200
Speaker 1: and there's a wedding. Those are the three things that

464
00:27:25,240 --> 00:27:28,840
Speaker 1: bring the family together. All of them are pretty intrinsically

465
00:27:28,840 --> 00:27:34,880
Speaker 1: connected to either men or marriage. That's all there is

466
00:27:37,600 --> 00:27:40,520
Speaker 1: the boys. The boys are back in town, or we're

467
00:27:40,560 --> 00:27:47,480
Speaker 1: marrying the boys, right, Because the way that the male characters,

468
00:27:47,600 --> 00:27:52,680
Speaker 1: including the narrator, talk about Margot or the way that

469
00:27:52,800 --> 00:27:57,200
Speaker 1: she serves a purpose in the narrative, well like, for example,

470
00:27:57,640 --> 00:28:01,800
Speaker 1: Richie attempts suicide because he has just learned that she

471
00:28:01,880 --> 00:28:04,520
Speaker 1: had been having an affair with his best friend Eli,

472
00:28:05,520 --> 00:28:07,880
Speaker 1: which I mean, we can get into a whole discussion

473
00:28:07,920 --> 00:28:13,880
Speaker 1: about how this movie does not handle suicidality and mental

474
00:28:13,960 --> 00:28:18,840
Speaker 1: illness well at all, but setting that aside, So him

475
00:28:18,880 --> 00:28:21,080
Speaker 1: discovering that she was having an affair with his friend

476
00:28:21,160 --> 00:28:26,639
Speaker 1: prompts Ritchie to attempt suicide. Then her husband, Raleigh played

477
00:28:26,640 --> 00:28:29,199
Speaker 1: by Bill Murray, goes on this whole tirade where he

478
00:28:29,400 --> 00:28:33,600
Speaker 1: blames Margo for Richie's suicide. This is shortly after he

479
00:28:33,640 --> 00:28:35,840
Speaker 1: has called himself a cook and then he gets up.

480
00:28:40,960 --> 00:28:44,840
Speaker 1: Earlier in the movie, Royal confronts Margot because she doesn't

481
00:28:44,880 --> 00:28:47,480
Speaker 1: he doesn't like the way that she's treating her husband rally,

482
00:28:47,640 --> 00:28:53,080
Speaker 1: because she's so secretive. The different montages that the narrator

483
00:28:53,560 --> 00:28:57,440
Speaker 1: is describing, it's often in the context of who she's

484
00:28:57,480 --> 00:28:59,320
Speaker 1: married to or who she used to be married and

485
00:28:59,320 --> 00:29:03,200
Speaker 1: divorced too, and then we focus on things about her

486
00:29:03,480 --> 00:29:07,840
Speaker 1: husband when we should be learning more about her. So

487
00:29:08,400 --> 00:29:11,080
Speaker 1: even when she's on screen or even when she's being

488
00:29:11,120 --> 00:29:14,560
Speaker 1: talked about, it's still usually in the context of her

489
00:29:14,600 --> 00:29:19,480
Speaker 1: relationship to the men in her life, which is stupid.

490
00:29:21,680 --> 00:29:28,720
Speaker 1: That's my hot, very academic take on that. Marco kind

491
00:29:28,720 --> 00:29:32,320
Speaker 1: of like with athletes character, there's like a glimmer of like,

492
00:29:33,080 --> 00:29:35,160
Speaker 1: why why don't we look at that a little more

493
00:29:35,160 --> 00:29:38,880
Speaker 1: instead of making her marry someone or making her fall

494
00:29:38,920 --> 00:29:41,920
Speaker 1: in love with something like you get that flashback scene

495
00:29:42,040 --> 00:29:46,200
Speaker 1: where Margot looks for her birth family and finds them

496
00:29:46,280 --> 00:29:50,959
Speaker 1: and then is unsatisfied, and you know, like kind of

497
00:29:51,000 --> 00:29:54,800
Speaker 1: a trophy approach to the adopted child story where they

498
00:29:54,840 --> 00:29:57,200
Speaker 1: go to find their origin and then it doesn't answer

499
00:29:57,280 --> 00:29:59,760
Speaker 1: the question that they actually had and like doesn't end

500
00:29:59,840 --> 00:30:04,000
Speaker 1: up solving all their problems. Fine, a pretty interesting scene

501
00:30:04,360 --> 00:30:08,080
Speaker 1: and shows us more of that character and kind of

502
00:30:08,120 --> 00:30:10,880
Speaker 1: like where she's coming from, but then it's kind of

503
00:30:10,920 --> 00:30:14,560
Speaker 1: really not touched one again and and I mean, I

504
00:30:14,840 --> 00:30:17,560
Speaker 1: can't say this with certainty, but it seems like part

505
00:30:17,600 --> 00:30:20,320
Speaker 1: of the reason that I mean, she's made to be

506
00:30:20,400 --> 00:30:23,480
Speaker 1: adopted so that it's weird as an audience, are okay

507
00:30:23,480 --> 00:30:28,280
Speaker 1: with her kissing Luke Wilson, but it goes largely kind

508
00:30:28,280 --> 00:30:31,160
Speaker 1: of unexplored where you see like a little piece of

509
00:30:31,160 --> 00:30:34,200
Speaker 1: it and you're like, oh, that's interesting. But then the

510
00:30:34,360 --> 00:30:37,680
Speaker 1: main takeaway of that is like she's still sad and

511
00:30:38,120 --> 00:30:40,560
Speaker 1: it's actually fine if she makes out with Luke Wilson,

512
00:30:41,840 --> 00:30:44,360
Speaker 1: and that's all really all we're given. I feel like

513
00:30:44,440 --> 00:30:49,280
Speaker 1: the way that the semi incestuous relationship is covered is

514
00:30:49,360 --> 00:30:54,160
Speaker 1: such an indication of how Wes Anderson portrays the depth

515
00:30:54,280 --> 00:30:59,200
Speaker 1: of true relationship dynamics. It's almost like, fundamentally, this family

516
00:30:59,400 --> 00:31:04,560
Speaker 1: is a codependent, dysfunctional family with a very mean and

517
00:31:05,080 --> 00:31:09,240
Speaker 1: narcissistic father figure, right, and that has all of these

518
00:31:09,240 --> 00:31:12,280
Speaker 1: consequences with like all the kids being depressed and probably

519
00:31:12,280 --> 00:31:15,680
Speaker 1: self critical and in some way self harming. And that's

520
00:31:15,760 --> 00:31:18,719
Speaker 1: really deep and like sad and awful, and that's like

521
00:31:18,760 --> 00:31:22,160
Speaker 1: what happens in like a family dynamic like that. But

522
00:31:22,320 --> 00:31:25,080
Speaker 1: like what Wes Anderson does is he like takes a

523
00:31:25,120 --> 00:31:28,760
Speaker 1: story like that, but only skims really the like the

524
00:31:28,960 --> 00:31:34,400
Speaker 1: cute and the quirky and the delightful parts for us

525
00:31:34,440 --> 00:31:38,240
Speaker 1: to look at, you know, which is entertaining, But there

526
00:31:38,400 --> 00:31:42,600
Speaker 1: is something to be desired when it comes to really

527
00:31:42,640 --> 00:31:45,680
Speaker 1: getting into why the relationships are the way they are

528
00:31:46,040 --> 00:31:48,640
Speaker 1: totally right, Like, it's like, oh, we have this sort

529
00:31:48,640 --> 00:31:53,280
Speaker 1: of surface level presentation of this really dysfunctional family. The

530
00:31:53,400 --> 00:31:57,720
Speaker 1: jokes are cute, the casual racism chuckle chuckle, you know,

531
00:31:57,920 --> 00:32:00,920
Speaker 1: and so and so I think in the end, I've

532
00:32:00,960 --> 00:32:05,680
Speaker 1: heard about dynamics where step children might grow way way

533
00:32:05,680 --> 00:32:08,680
Speaker 1: too close, or even regular children grow way too close

534
00:32:08,720 --> 00:32:11,560
Speaker 1: because the parents are like not really there for kids,

535
00:32:11,800 --> 00:32:14,240
Speaker 1: you know. But and maybe that could be an explanation

536
00:32:14,280 --> 00:32:17,640
Speaker 1: for Margo and Richie, but we don't really get that,

537
00:32:17,760 --> 00:32:21,760
Speaker 1: you know. Yeah, it's not like and the fact that

538
00:32:21,840 --> 00:32:24,320
Speaker 1: Wes Anderson, you know, really goes out of his way

539
00:32:24,360 --> 00:32:29,000
Speaker 1: to be like they are not related is a very

540
00:32:29,040 --> 00:32:31,240
Speaker 1: deliberate choice in his part. And I think that the

541
00:32:31,400 --> 00:32:34,000
Speaker 1: choices like I want this movie to make a lot

542
00:32:34,040 --> 00:32:36,000
Speaker 1: of money and be successful, and I don't want people

543
00:32:36,040 --> 00:32:39,600
Speaker 1: to feel weird about it. I wanted to be quirky

544
00:32:39,680 --> 00:32:42,160
Speaker 1: and like not like the other relationships, but I don't

545
00:32:42,160 --> 00:32:47,280
Speaker 1: want it to be outside of what is conventionally acceptable,

546
00:32:47,400 --> 00:32:50,440
Speaker 1: and you know with in the law and all that stuff.

547
00:32:50,680 --> 00:32:52,959
Speaker 1: So yeah, and then and then I really like and

548
00:32:53,000 --> 00:32:55,080
Speaker 1: we don't really have time to fully unpack it, but

549
00:32:55,160 --> 00:32:58,720
Speaker 1: just the way that this movie treats Richie's suicide attempt

550
00:32:58,840 --> 00:33:05,600
Speaker 1: is very sudden and more graphic than I remembered, and

551
00:33:05,800 --> 00:33:10,080
Speaker 1: beautifully shot though guards of symmetry, gorgeous shot of this

552
00:33:10,160 --> 00:33:16,120
Speaker 1: horrifying act that is really barely commented on after it happens,

553
00:33:16,160 --> 00:33:18,080
Speaker 1: and it's just I mean, it's scared to see, like

554
00:33:18,120 --> 00:33:22,800
Speaker 1: he literally slits his wrists on camera, which I mean,

555
00:33:22,840 --> 00:33:24,920
Speaker 1: we can argue the ethics of that. I just don't

556
00:33:24,920 --> 00:33:26,720
Speaker 1: think that that's like a responsible thing to do in

557
00:33:27,520 --> 00:33:31,160
Speaker 1: what you're trying to have be a mainstream movie. And

558
00:33:31,200 --> 00:33:35,239
Speaker 1: then really it just serves the narrative purpose of you know,

559
00:33:35,280 --> 00:33:38,800
Speaker 1: getting Margot to talk to Ritchie again and to get

560
00:33:38,800 --> 00:33:43,880
Speaker 1: the family together again. And outside of that that like

561
00:33:44,120 --> 00:33:47,840
Speaker 1: very drastic upsetting action is not really addressed that much

562
00:33:47,840 --> 00:33:50,640
Speaker 1: after that, except of like, well Margot is talking to

563
00:33:50,680 --> 00:33:55,080
Speaker 1: me again, so shrug, Like it's just it's very bizarre.

564
00:33:55,320 --> 00:33:57,680
Speaker 1: I mean, the gorgeousness of the art direction and the

565
00:33:57,720 --> 00:34:03,440
Speaker 1: cinematography risks rising suicide and depression, you know what I mean.

566
00:34:03,480 --> 00:34:07,840
Speaker 1: It's like that was pretty well yeah, yeah, like why

567
00:34:07,840 --> 00:34:09,960
Speaker 1: did that look so nice? Right? And then the scene

568
00:34:10,000 --> 00:34:12,960
Speaker 1: after so you see he kind of like lays his

569
00:34:13,400 --> 00:34:15,920
Speaker 1: arms onto the sink and then you see the blood

570
00:34:16,080 --> 00:34:19,480
Speaker 1: kind of rushed down and then that cuts immediately to

571
00:34:20,800 --> 00:34:25,400
Speaker 1: it's not comical, but it's such a juxtaposition against what

572
00:34:25,440 --> 00:34:28,640
Speaker 1: we just saw that it's almost like, I don't know

573
00:34:28,680 --> 00:34:30,880
Speaker 1: exactly how to describe it, but it's like a bunch

574
00:34:30,920 --> 00:34:33,960
Speaker 1: of doctors and nurses and stuff like that rushing him

575
00:34:34,040 --> 00:34:37,680
Speaker 1: the hall and it's like suddenly this bright colors and

576
00:34:37,760 --> 00:34:41,480
Speaker 1: it's like the music, the music and the and just

577
00:34:41,600 --> 00:34:49,319
Speaker 1: the movement on the screen almost makes that seem amusing. Yeah, well,

578
00:34:49,360 --> 00:34:51,800
Speaker 1: I think that the especially with the music there is

579
00:34:51,840 --> 00:34:55,440
Speaker 1: communicating is like and we're all back together again because

580
00:34:55,480 --> 00:34:58,000
Speaker 1: this thing happened. Either that or saying like oh it's

581
00:34:58,040 --> 00:35:00,520
Speaker 1: all gonna be okay, like he won't die from this,

582
00:35:01,280 --> 00:35:05,200
Speaker 1: but it's still yeah, just if that felt handled irresponsible, Yeah,

583
00:35:05,239 --> 00:35:09,280
Speaker 1: I mean the way that that that that shift communicated

584
00:35:09,520 --> 00:35:13,040
Speaker 1: what it communicated to me was Wes Anderson saying, Oh,

585
00:35:13,200 --> 00:35:16,480
Speaker 1: isn't it cute that Richie tried to commit suicide, but

586
00:35:16,520 --> 00:35:19,040
Speaker 1: he's not going to be successful ha ha because he

587
00:35:19,080 --> 00:35:22,160
Speaker 1: got found before. He can't get that right exactly, but

588
00:35:22,280 --> 00:35:24,719
Speaker 1: that's how that felt because because the way he was

589
00:35:24,760 --> 00:35:28,000
Speaker 1: found was pretty soon after he you know, started bleeding

590
00:35:28,040 --> 00:35:30,080
Speaker 1: and he was on the floor of the bathroom and

591
00:35:30,160 --> 00:35:34,440
Speaker 1: like the random test subject of Rally st Clair finding

592
00:35:34,480 --> 00:35:37,319
Speaker 1: the teenage, Yeah, a lot of hair, a lot of

593
00:35:37,320 --> 00:35:41,719
Speaker 1: hat I'd like to throw in here. Um. You know,

594
00:35:42,120 --> 00:35:44,480
Speaker 1: if I were to rewrite the Royal Tannon bombs from

595
00:35:44,480 --> 00:35:48,120
Speaker 1: a different perspective in order to fulfill the Bechdel test,

596
00:35:48,680 --> 00:35:50,920
Speaker 1: I would write it from the perspective of Sing Sing

597
00:35:51,480 --> 00:35:54,800
Speaker 1: Oh okay, yeah, Sing Sing with this the character in

598
00:35:54,880 --> 00:35:58,799
Speaker 1: the very beginning, that's the masseuse. Uh. You know, in

599
00:35:58,840 --> 00:36:01,000
Speaker 1: the scene where you find out that Royal is going

600
00:36:01,080 --> 00:36:03,239
Speaker 1: to get kicked out of the hotel that he's been

601
00:36:03,280 --> 00:36:05,319
Speaker 1: seeing in and you pan up and you see Sing

602
00:36:05,400 --> 00:36:08,799
Speaker 1: Sing is uh, you know, his his masseuse looks kind

603
00:36:08,800 --> 00:36:12,560
Speaker 1: of asian e and Sing Sing is like what an

604
00:36:12,560 --> 00:36:15,120
Speaker 1: elementary school bully would call me in order to make

605
00:36:15,160 --> 00:36:20,200
Speaker 1: fun of my Chinese name. Yeah, so I'm just like okay,

606
00:36:20,360 --> 00:36:22,880
Speaker 1: and so I would I would rewrite the royal tannem

607
00:36:22,880 --> 00:36:26,200
Speaker 1: bombs from Sing Sing's perspective. You actually see Sing Sing

608
00:36:26,320 --> 00:36:29,880
Speaker 1: later on um do you do? She's in the background.

609
00:36:29,880 --> 00:36:32,080
Speaker 1: And I think this is very indicative of the people

610
00:36:32,120 --> 00:36:35,680
Speaker 1: of color characters that in this movie. For Wes Anderson,

611
00:36:36,000 --> 00:36:38,839
Speaker 1: you have Pagoda, which is it's a Japanese word for

612
00:36:38,880 --> 00:36:44,480
Speaker 1: a Chinese architectural detail. That is the name that is

613
00:36:44,520 --> 00:36:48,640
Speaker 1: given to the Indian man in Calcutta, that he is

614
00:36:48,719 --> 00:36:51,520
Speaker 1: his sort of man servant for the royal for royal,

615
00:36:52,600 --> 00:36:55,160
Speaker 1: So very bizarre, and and and and so you know,

616
00:36:55,239 --> 00:36:58,440
Speaker 1: because of the sort of wide angle shots that we

617
00:36:58,560 --> 00:37:01,759
Speaker 1: get of every scene, the sort of quirkiness and the

618
00:37:01,760 --> 00:37:04,040
Speaker 1: benefit of the color and the texture of of these

619
00:37:04,040 --> 00:37:06,440
Speaker 1: shots is that you get to see side characters and

620
00:37:06,480 --> 00:37:10,480
Speaker 1: background actors and background movement right while the foreground is happening.

621
00:37:10,680 --> 00:37:14,040
Speaker 1: And so so often it's either Pagoda or Sing Sing

622
00:37:14,120 --> 00:37:16,840
Speaker 1: or other sort of people of color or servant type

623
00:37:17,239 --> 00:37:21,160
Speaker 1: characters in the background being quirky and moving uh to

624
00:37:21,600 --> 00:37:25,080
Speaker 1: to sort of be like animated gifts of delightfulness in

625
00:37:25,120 --> 00:37:27,799
Speaker 1: the back and so and so I think Sing Sing

626
00:37:27,840 --> 00:37:31,480
Speaker 1: would be Apparently Sing Sing showing up later probably indicates

627
00:37:31,480 --> 00:37:33,200
Speaker 1: they had a really close relationship. I don't know what

628
00:37:33,239 --> 00:37:35,879
Speaker 1: the nature of it. She didn't say one word, but

629
00:37:36,200 --> 00:37:39,080
Speaker 1: I would rewrite that would be my wicked musical. I

630
00:37:39,080 --> 00:37:44,759
Speaker 1: would rewrite Royal tannem Bombs the musical from Sing Sing's perspective. Uh,

631
00:37:44,760 --> 00:37:47,959
Speaker 1: hell yeah, I'll buy it. I would watch We'll see

632
00:37:48,160 --> 00:37:51,520
Speaker 1: and then she has like a secret relationship with Pagoda,

633
00:37:51,760 --> 00:37:55,840
Speaker 1: you know, I mean, yeah, it's a non white characters

634
00:37:55,880 --> 00:37:59,600
Speaker 1: are largely used for comic relief in this movie, with

635
00:37:59,600 --> 00:38:04,719
Speaker 1: with the exception of Danny Glover's character, who's really the

636
00:38:04,719 --> 00:38:08,439
Speaker 1: only non white main character in the movie, and even

637
00:38:08,480 --> 00:38:12,480
Speaker 1: then he's like a bi character pretty much. Yeah, I

638
00:38:12,520 --> 00:38:14,920
Speaker 1: think it just it just hints to the sort of

639
00:38:14,960 --> 00:38:18,799
Speaker 1: orientalist problem that Wes Anderson tends to have, as we

640
00:38:18,840 --> 00:38:23,200
Speaker 1: saw with Isle of Dogs recently. Because you know, you know,

641
00:38:23,239 --> 00:38:25,760
Speaker 1: I noticed the Asian ship all the time in any movie,

642
00:38:25,840 --> 00:38:28,239
Speaker 1: and so in what in this movie, the first time

643
00:38:28,280 --> 00:38:31,360
Speaker 1: we see Asian ship is Sing Sing the Masseuse. The

644
00:38:31,400 --> 00:38:34,359
Speaker 1: second time we see Asian ship is actually um when

645
00:38:34,680 --> 00:38:38,759
Speaker 1: Royal confronts Ethylene to get back into her life, and

646
00:38:38,840 --> 00:38:41,480
Speaker 1: you see they actually have in a street argument and

647
00:38:41,520 --> 00:38:43,719
Speaker 1: it's in front of some kind of embassy that has

648
00:38:43,800 --> 00:38:47,320
Speaker 1: Chinese words, you know, and so but it's very prominent

649
00:38:47,360 --> 00:38:50,120
Speaker 1: because it's you know, it's it's ethylene and royal on

650
00:38:50,160 --> 00:38:52,480
Speaker 1: the right hand side of the screen and three quarters

651
00:38:52,480 --> 00:38:54,200
Speaker 1: of the rest of the screen is the sort of

652
00:38:54,440 --> 00:38:57,719
Speaker 1: wall of this and you see the sign, and it's

653
00:38:57,760 --> 00:39:00,520
Speaker 1: the sort of little details that tell me like it's

654
00:39:00,600 --> 00:39:03,040
Speaker 1: very deliberate, because there is no scene that is not

655
00:39:03,080 --> 00:39:06,000
Speaker 1: deliberate for Wes Anderson. And you know in the way

656
00:39:06,000 --> 00:39:09,520
Speaker 1: that he also uses sort of essentially orientalist things as

657
00:39:09,560 --> 00:39:13,000
Speaker 1: set dressing and people as set dressing. So um to me,

658
00:39:13,239 --> 00:39:16,440
Speaker 1: the setting in front of a Chinese language sign of

659
00:39:16,480 --> 00:39:19,200
Speaker 1: an embassy in the street of New York is no

660
00:39:19,320 --> 00:39:21,160
Speaker 1: different from the fact that Sing Sing was in the

661
00:39:21,200 --> 00:39:24,200
Speaker 1: background for another scene and pago to access set dressing

662
00:39:24,239 --> 00:39:28,520
Speaker 1: for other scenes. I mean, Wes Anderson is an example

663
00:39:28,600 --> 00:39:31,040
Speaker 1: of one of these odd toward directors that has his

664
00:39:31,160 --> 00:39:35,279
Speaker 1: little like Darling's where he keeps recasting a handful of

665
00:39:35,400 --> 00:39:39,680
Speaker 1: actors in his movies over and over again. You're Wilson Brothers,

666
00:39:39,680 --> 00:39:44,400
Speaker 1: You're Jason Schwartzman's your Bill, Murray's maybe a couple of others,

667
00:39:44,480 --> 00:39:48,120
Speaker 1: a ton of white actors exactly, mostly men um Wes

668
00:39:48,200 --> 00:39:52,120
Speaker 1: Anderson on race is just a deep sigh. How do

669
00:39:52,120 --> 00:39:57,279
Speaker 1: you spell that on a script? It's just like a

670
00:39:57,320 --> 00:40:03,920
Speaker 1: bunch of us and yeah, but like repeated into infinity

671
00:40:03,960 --> 00:40:08,400
Speaker 1: of like also a common not really a through line

672
00:40:08,400 --> 00:40:10,400
Speaker 1: but basically just an image that you keep seeing. Is

673
00:40:10,440 --> 00:40:14,200
Speaker 1: this cab that shows up all the time, Gypsy cab

674
00:40:14,480 --> 00:40:19,360
Speaker 1: gypsy again being a slur for roma people. Not okay,

675
00:40:19,560 --> 00:40:22,600
Speaker 1: I feel like this is this is another male utor

676
00:40:23,120 --> 00:40:25,600
Speaker 1: issue and probably a white director issue as well, of

677
00:40:25,760 --> 00:40:30,680
Speaker 1: like by thinking that the mere presence of something like

678
00:40:30,880 --> 00:40:34,279
Speaker 1: makes it okay. I'm trying to articulate this correctly, but

679
00:40:34,320 --> 00:40:35,960
Speaker 1: I think I know what you mean. Where he's like

680
00:40:36,040 --> 00:40:40,040
Speaker 1: cute defying all this stuff that he cannot possibly understand

681
00:40:40,280 --> 00:40:44,880
Speaker 1: or and and cannot represent on screen responsibly. But he's like,

682
00:40:44,920 --> 00:40:48,160
Speaker 1: well it's there, so that's good. You know. I didn't

683
00:40:48,200 --> 00:40:52,320
Speaker 1: ignore that because it's in my movie, So I'm doing

684
00:40:52,320 --> 00:40:55,279
Speaker 1: a good job. I acknowledged that people who aren't me

685
00:40:55,440 --> 00:41:00,200
Speaker 1: exist at all. So Trophy please like that cuteify ying

686
00:41:00,280 --> 00:41:05,960
Speaker 1: is a good word. For the Wes Anderson filmmaking filter. Yeah,

687
00:41:05,640 --> 00:41:09,839
Speaker 1: that's the name of his insta filter, slip Slipe cut.

688
00:41:11,520 --> 00:41:13,399
Speaker 1: So I couldn't help but notice that towards the end,

689
00:41:13,880 --> 00:41:18,760
Speaker 1: Eli crashes the wedding by literally crashing a car into

690
00:41:18,800 --> 00:41:21,320
Speaker 1: the wedding. And I just wonder if that's the inspiration

691
00:41:21,360 --> 00:41:25,120
Speaker 1: for the movie Wedding Crashers that he would later star in.

692
00:41:25,680 --> 00:41:27,760
Speaker 1: You know, I'm just here to ask the important question.

693
00:41:27,960 --> 00:41:30,440
Speaker 1: It's Wedding Crasher is a part of the expanded Wes

694
00:41:30,520 --> 00:41:36,680
Speaker 1: Anderson universe. Does anyone have any final thoughts about the movie?

695
00:41:37,440 --> 00:41:40,240
Speaker 1: You know, there's still a part of me that appreciates

696
00:41:40,719 --> 00:41:44,359
Speaker 1: the craft and the storytelling that happened in the movie, Like,

697
00:41:44,680 --> 00:41:48,600
Speaker 1: you know, I liked it back then, prewoke viewing days

698
00:41:48,960 --> 00:41:52,160
Speaker 1: for a reason, you know, And I think I think

699
00:41:52,160 --> 00:41:54,520
Speaker 1: there's a lot I can learn about storytelling. But but

700
00:41:54,600 --> 00:41:57,600
Speaker 1: I think we're in this moment where flipping the script

701
00:41:58,040 --> 00:42:01,399
Speaker 1: talking about the Begdel Test, seeing it means to hear

702
00:42:02,120 --> 00:42:05,920
Speaker 1: from the voices of people you don't usually here in

703
00:42:05,960 --> 00:42:09,480
Speaker 1: a more popular conversation. That means that we're all going

704
00:42:09,520 --> 00:42:12,080
Speaker 1: to figure out what it might mean to like create

705
00:42:12,280 --> 00:42:19,080
Speaker 1: more mainstream accessible stories right, that are more critical the patriarchy,

706
00:42:19,239 --> 00:42:22,920
Speaker 1: that are gonna, you know, have us drive the story.

707
00:42:23,440 --> 00:42:29,000
Speaker 1: You know, your future Broadway musical, yes string, you know

708
00:42:29,640 --> 00:42:37,400
Speaker 1: the sing Sing Tannerballs featuring Pagoda. That's that's my takeaway

709
00:42:37,480 --> 00:42:40,680
Speaker 1: that I want to write my wicked yeah. Yeah. And

710
00:42:40,680 --> 00:42:43,479
Speaker 1: that's not to say that every single movie that comes

711
00:42:43,480 --> 00:42:46,560
Speaker 1: out has to be this like hard hitting, deep analysis

712
00:42:46,640 --> 00:42:49,920
Speaker 1: of the patriarchy and how to dismantle it. Because as

713
00:42:49,960 --> 00:42:51,600
Speaker 1: much as I love to watch movies like that, I

714
00:42:51,640 --> 00:42:55,880
Speaker 1: also love to watch just sort of mindless popcorn movies

715
00:42:56,080 --> 00:42:59,640
Speaker 1: sometimes and there ye like Wes Anderson is the king

716
00:42:59,680 --> 00:43:03,040
Speaker 1: of these kind of fun, quirky movies that start to

717
00:43:03,239 --> 00:43:08,799
Speaker 1: maybe explore some themes that tend to go unexplored in

718
00:43:08,840 --> 00:43:11,000
Speaker 1: his movies, but he really only kind of touches on

719
00:43:11,000 --> 00:43:14,799
Speaker 1: the surface of them and doesn't really do much in

720
00:43:14,840 --> 00:43:18,719
Speaker 1: the way of anything like that. But if you are

721
00:43:18,760 --> 00:43:21,480
Speaker 1: going to have just a fun kind of mindless movie,

722
00:43:21,520 --> 00:43:24,000
Speaker 1: I think that you do still have the responsibility to

723
00:43:24,040 --> 00:43:26,200
Speaker 1: treat your characters well. And if you are going to

724
00:43:26,280 --> 00:43:30,919
Speaker 1: have women in your movie, which you should, which which

725
00:43:30,960 --> 00:43:34,080
Speaker 1: I mean rolling my eyes, but sometimes it has to

726
00:43:35,760 --> 00:43:38,040
Speaker 1: have women because what if the proton, what if the

727
00:43:38,040 --> 00:43:42,560
Speaker 1: male protagonist wants to have heterosat who is he going

728
00:43:42,600 --> 00:43:46,000
Speaker 1: to have sex with? But right, So, if you're going

729
00:43:46,040 --> 00:43:49,719
Speaker 1: to make a fun, quirky, offbeat movie, then have your

730
00:43:49,719 --> 00:43:54,480
Speaker 1: female characters still not be entirely defined by their relationships

731
00:43:54,560 --> 00:43:57,560
Speaker 1: to men, for example, Or have the people of color

732
00:43:57,800 --> 00:44:00,600
Speaker 1: in your movie not only be the help of the

733
00:44:00,600 --> 00:44:04,719
Speaker 1: white characters. So yeah, just a lot of just a

734
00:44:04,719 --> 00:44:08,680
Speaker 1: lot of missteps in this movie, as you can expect

735
00:44:08,719 --> 00:44:12,440
Speaker 1: from a mainstream movie. I had one other little note

736
00:44:13,200 --> 00:44:16,879
Speaker 1: that it was just like but both a missed opportunity

737
00:44:16,920 --> 00:44:19,680
Speaker 1: writing wise and just like come on, uh, the only

738
00:44:19,719 --> 00:44:24,160
Speaker 1: writer character in this movie is Margot Tannenbaum, and yet

739
00:44:24,440 --> 00:44:27,879
Speaker 1: the movie Framing Device is a book written by a man.

740
00:44:29,560 --> 00:44:32,440
Speaker 1: Why we have a writer character, we have a writical Well,

741
00:44:32,560 --> 00:44:36,120
Speaker 1: Eli is also a true he is a novelist, and

742
00:44:36,480 --> 00:44:43,720
Speaker 1: Margot's husband, Raleigh is he is a psychologist neurologist. I think, um,

743
00:44:43,800 --> 00:44:47,759
Speaker 1: but he has also written books. I want a female narrator, yeah,

744
00:44:47,800 --> 00:44:49,759
Speaker 1: but also this story would make no sense coming from

745
00:44:49,800 --> 00:44:52,920
Speaker 1: a female narrator because it makes nice it's female characters

746
00:44:52,920 --> 00:44:54,800
Speaker 1: a lot of the time. Also, I'm sure the narrator

747
00:44:54,800 --> 00:44:57,640
Speaker 1: Ali Baldwin has some me two stories. That's oh yeah,

748
00:44:57,680 --> 00:45:00,120
Speaker 1: I mean we've it's you know, the time, the when

749
00:45:00,120 --> 00:45:03,520
Speaker 1: it culture has come where we finally need to hear

750
00:45:03,560 --> 00:45:06,719
Speaker 1: Alc Balbin out here what he's got to say. I

751
00:45:06,760 --> 00:45:09,520
Speaker 1: think that just speaking to because Wes Anderson is such

752
00:45:09,560 --> 00:45:12,560
Speaker 1: a common request from our audience, and a lot of

753
00:45:13,080 --> 00:45:18,719
Speaker 1: tour directors are that because Wes Anderson's work does tend

754
00:45:18,800 --> 00:45:22,239
Speaker 1: to be in its positiveness and its negative so consistent

755
00:45:22,920 --> 00:45:25,040
Speaker 1: that we can take a movie like this in sort

756
00:45:25,080 --> 00:45:28,040
Speaker 1: of view it to an extent as a reflection of

757
00:45:28,080 --> 00:45:32,400
Speaker 1: the filmmaker's values and interests. So you know, it is

758
00:45:32,480 --> 00:45:35,560
Speaker 1: a little bit of a reflection on Wes Anderson where

759
00:45:35,600 --> 00:45:38,279
Speaker 1: he is, you know, the creative driving force behind this.

760
00:45:38,320 --> 00:45:41,720
Speaker 1: Where it's like this is probably a reflection at this time,

761
00:45:41,880 --> 00:45:45,760
Speaker 1: at this point in time, how Wes Anderson views women

762
00:45:45,920 --> 00:45:49,480
Speaker 1: and views non white people as you know, not the

763
00:45:49,520 --> 00:45:53,040
Speaker 1: primary focus and thought of more in a utility way

764
00:45:53,560 --> 00:45:57,200
Speaker 1: than in like, here's the character we really want to

765
00:45:57,320 --> 00:46:02,120
Speaker 1: explore and give time to. It's all about Okay, they're

766
00:46:02,239 --> 00:46:06,200
Speaker 1: allowed to be there, but only to further the story

767
00:46:06,440 --> 00:46:09,280
Speaker 1: of the person he's really interested in which is almost

768
00:46:09,280 --> 00:46:14,920
Speaker 1: always one of his friends. Yeah. Yeah, and also reflective

769
00:46:14,920 --> 00:46:18,680
Speaker 1: of the way he uses depression and mental health issues

770
00:46:19,160 --> 00:46:23,120
Speaker 1: for utility. Absolutely. You know, we can judge him according

771
00:46:23,160 --> 00:46:25,680
Speaker 1: to this movie, but it also is a judgment on

772
00:46:25,800 --> 00:46:30,400
Speaker 1: his Yes, each of you used a French word to

773
00:46:30,480 --> 00:46:32,400
Speaker 1: talk about film, and I felt left out, so I

774
00:46:32,400 --> 00:46:34,400
Speaker 1: wanted to use a French word. I loved it. I

775
00:46:34,400 --> 00:46:42,160
Speaker 1: don't know. It's very well good, it's beautiful, it's very symmetrical. Gang,

776
00:46:42,320 --> 00:46:45,799
Speaker 1: We're real smart. Wow. Think about us is where Genius says,

777
00:46:46,480 --> 00:46:51,520
Speaker 1: does this movie pass the Bechdel test? Yeah? I would

778
00:46:51,560 --> 00:46:55,080
Speaker 1: say it does there by the skin of its teeth.

779
00:46:55,120 --> 00:47:00,239
Speaker 1: At there's a few conversations between Ethylene and Margot. There's

780
00:47:00,320 --> 00:47:03,759
Speaker 1: a scene early on where um Margot is in the

781
00:47:03,880 --> 00:47:08,080
Speaker 1: bathtub and he's like, Raleigh says, you have been spending

782
00:47:08,080 --> 00:47:10,440
Speaker 1: a lot of time in the bathtub. Margo is like,

783
00:47:10,520 --> 00:47:13,520
Speaker 1: I doubt that. Shout out to the movie doubt, doubt,

784
00:47:14,400 --> 00:47:16,960
Speaker 1: And then they're talking about She's like, I don't think

785
00:47:16,960 --> 00:47:19,560
Speaker 1: that's very healthy. What if what if the TV falls

786
00:47:19,560 --> 00:47:21,080
Speaker 1: into the tub And she's like, I tie it to

787
00:47:21,080 --> 00:47:23,920
Speaker 1: the radiator and she's like, wow, it can't be very

788
00:47:23,920 --> 00:47:27,040
Speaker 1: good for your eyes. And then she says Chaz came home.

789
00:47:27,320 --> 00:47:30,640
Speaker 1: So there is a two line exchange that does technically

790
00:47:30,680 --> 00:47:34,280
Speaker 1: pass within that, but the conversation starts talking about Raleigh

791
00:47:34,560 --> 00:47:38,160
Speaker 1: and with talking about Chaz and then Ari and Uzy,

792
00:47:38,280 --> 00:47:40,520
Speaker 1: and the chunk that passes is the only part of

793
00:47:40,520 --> 00:47:44,759
Speaker 1: that conversation that really has no narrative implications. It's just

794
00:47:44,840 --> 00:47:48,160
Speaker 1: like that. It's it's a little joke. That's I think

795
00:47:48,200 --> 00:47:51,400
Speaker 1: that almost every part of this movie that does barely

796
00:47:51,440 --> 00:47:54,239
Speaker 1: pass the back to test has nothing to do with

797
00:47:54,440 --> 00:47:57,360
Speaker 1: what is actually happening in this story. Yeah. Um. The

798
00:47:57,360 --> 00:47:59,960
Speaker 1: scene after that where those two women interact again is

799
00:48:00,040 --> 00:48:05,279
Speaker 1: when they're talking about Eli Cash sending Ethelene his like

800
00:48:05,400 --> 00:48:07,919
Speaker 1: clippings and his grades from college. That doesn't pass because

801
00:48:07,960 --> 00:48:10,799
Speaker 1: they're talking about Eli. And then there's a scene at

802
00:48:10,800 --> 00:48:13,280
Speaker 1: the end between the two of them again where Margot

803
00:48:13,320 --> 00:48:15,719
Speaker 1: is chewing on her nicotine and hailer and she's like,

804
00:48:15,760 --> 00:48:17,240
Speaker 1: what are you tring? And she's like, oh, it's supposed

805
00:48:17,239 --> 00:48:19,680
Speaker 1: to help me quit smoking. Is it working? Not really?

806
00:48:20,320 --> 00:48:23,160
Speaker 1: And then a car crashes into the building and it

807
00:48:23,239 --> 00:48:27,280
Speaker 1: was Eli wedding crashing with Vince Vaughn as he's always

808
00:48:27,320 --> 00:48:33,200
Speaker 1: doing aleating moment, so that scene I think also technically

809
00:48:33,239 --> 00:48:36,000
Speaker 1: passes because that's a four line exchange. Also, I didn't

810
00:48:36,040 --> 00:48:38,279
Speaker 1: realize until you said it that way that one of

811
00:48:38,320 --> 00:48:41,760
Speaker 1: the only Bectel test passing sceneson has literally ended because

812
00:48:41,800 --> 00:48:47,480
Speaker 1: a man drives a car into that scene. So poetic, Yeah, beautiful,

813
00:48:47,600 --> 00:48:51,120
Speaker 1: just a real representation of And but you're right, like

814
00:48:51,160 --> 00:48:53,040
Speaker 1: all the scenes that do are, all the moments that

815
00:48:53,080 --> 00:48:56,800
Speaker 1: do pass the Bechtel tests have no bearing on the narrative.

816
00:48:57,080 --> 00:48:59,000
Speaker 1: They could easily be cut in. The story would not

817
00:48:59,040 --> 00:49:01,560
Speaker 1: be changed one bit to like, well, maybe that's because

818
00:49:01,600 --> 00:49:04,200
Speaker 1: we're always trying to figure out ways to modify the

819
00:49:04,239 --> 00:49:06,799
Speaker 1: test to make it a little more effective for our purposes.

820
00:49:07,239 --> 00:49:10,160
Speaker 1: And that, I mean that might be a new thing

821
00:49:10,200 --> 00:49:12,880
Speaker 1: of like, what is the narrative implication? If if there's

822
00:49:12,960 --> 00:49:17,560
Speaker 1: only exchanges between women and movies that have no bearing

823
00:49:17,600 --> 00:49:20,400
Speaker 1: on what happens, then maybe if that shouldn't pass, right.

824
00:49:20,400 --> 00:49:23,040
Speaker 1: I think in a recent episode we were saying something

825
00:49:23,080 --> 00:49:26,719
Speaker 1: to the effect that we're hoping that the conversation is meaningful.

826
00:49:27,320 --> 00:49:31,239
Speaker 1: So because oftentimes it's like, hey, server at a restaurant,

827
00:49:31,320 --> 00:49:34,920
Speaker 1: do you have any pie? And they're like, yes, my

828
00:49:35,000 --> 00:49:37,760
Speaker 1: name is Marie, and you're just like, well, I guess,

829
00:49:37,800 --> 00:49:42,040
Speaker 1: and that's not a meaningful conversation. So yeah, I mean,

830
00:49:42,520 --> 00:49:45,719
Speaker 1: this movie could have easily done better. It did not

831
00:49:45,840 --> 00:49:49,520
Speaker 1: capitalize on any of the opportunities to pass the Bechdel test. More,

832
00:49:50,480 --> 00:49:53,920
Speaker 1: I still don't hate it. I mean, I hate myself

833
00:49:53,960 --> 00:49:56,359
Speaker 1: for that, but also I still know it's okay. I mean,

834
00:49:56,400 --> 00:49:58,120
Speaker 1: I don't hate I don't I don't hate this movie.

835
00:49:58,160 --> 00:50:01,879
Speaker 1: I don't think it's especially regret astive. It's not progressive,

836
00:50:01,920 --> 00:50:05,319
Speaker 1: but it doesn't necessarily set us back any further than

837
00:50:05,400 --> 00:50:08,719
Speaker 1: we already are. So like, yeah, I mean, which says

838
00:50:08,800 --> 00:50:15,200
Speaker 1: what I guess. That just means like all right, and

839
00:50:15,280 --> 00:50:17,880
Speaker 1: it's allowed to continue existence. Which, by the way, if

840
00:50:17,960 --> 00:50:22,520
Speaker 1: you do want to change the test that this podcast

841
00:50:22,600 --> 00:50:25,279
Speaker 1: is based on, maybe you don't have to change the

842
00:50:25,360 --> 00:50:28,000
Speaker 1: name of the podcast, just called the Bechtel Plus and

843
00:50:28,040 --> 00:50:32,120
Speaker 1: then you can start modifying the test. Let what we

844
00:50:32,200 --> 00:50:34,960
Speaker 1: do also talk about other tests that come up, the

845
00:50:35,040 --> 00:50:38,960
Speaker 1: Rito Russo test, the EVA Done tests, um, which I

846
00:50:38,960 --> 00:50:43,440
Speaker 1: don't think this movie would pass. No, no, no, anyway.

847
00:50:43,560 --> 00:50:46,319
Speaker 1: So yeah, yes to passing the Bechtel tests, but that

848
00:50:46,400 --> 00:50:51,319
Speaker 1: does not make it a feminist text. Unfortunately, um, let's

849
00:50:51,320 --> 00:50:53,360
Speaker 1: write the movie on our nipple scale. We have a

850
00:50:53,400 --> 00:50:55,600
Speaker 1: scale of zero to five nipples, and we write based

851
00:50:55,600 --> 00:50:59,480
Speaker 1: on its portrayal of women. I'm going to have to

852
00:50:59,520 --> 00:51:03,920
Speaker 1: give it like a one and a half, I think,

853
00:51:04,320 --> 00:51:09,240
Speaker 1: because I mean a little time is spent characterizing Margot,

854
00:51:09,520 --> 00:51:13,800
Speaker 1: and that she's established as a secretive person. She's a playwright,

855
00:51:13,960 --> 00:51:16,680
Speaker 1: she likes the arts, she likes photography. I mean, we

856
00:51:16,719 --> 00:51:18,800
Speaker 1: only see a glimpse of that in a montage that

857
00:51:18,880 --> 00:51:21,920
Speaker 1: lasts for one second. But we do learn certain things

858
00:51:21,960 --> 00:51:24,839
Speaker 1: about her character that a lot of movies wouldn't even

859
00:51:24,840 --> 00:51:28,600
Speaker 1: take the time to establish. But for the most part,

860
00:51:28,640 --> 00:51:31,440
Speaker 1: her character exists in the narrative to be either the

861
00:51:31,480 --> 00:51:36,480
Speaker 1: object of men's affections or to basically further characterize the

862
00:51:36,520 --> 00:51:41,520
Speaker 1: men around her. So she is not actually characterized that

863
00:51:41,560 --> 00:51:44,879
Speaker 1: well at all, I would argue. But then there's also Ethylene, who,

864
00:51:45,320 --> 00:51:48,000
Speaker 1: similar to Margot, it is pretty much only defined and

865
00:51:48,080 --> 00:51:50,840
Speaker 1: characterized by her relationships to the men in her life.

866
00:51:51,360 --> 00:51:55,320
Speaker 1: So I would say overall, the female characters are disserviced

867
00:51:55,320 --> 00:51:59,120
Speaker 1: by the filmmakers and the narrative. So it gets one

868
00:51:59,120 --> 00:52:02,800
Speaker 1: and a half nipples. One to Margot and the half

869
00:52:02,920 --> 00:52:07,680
Speaker 1: nipple will go to sing sing one nipple more singing

870
00:52:09,360 --> 00:52:14,040
Speaker 1: hashtag more sings. I'm gonna go on nipple two. And

871
00:52:14,280 --> 00:52:17,520
Speaker 1: this is uh something we didn't really touch on, but

872
00:52:17,800 --> 00:52:20,440
Speaker 1: just going on a A lot of people who are

873
00:52:20,600 --> 00:52:24,440
Speaker 1: fans of Wes Anderson, I think are teenagers, and I

874
00:52:24,480 --> 00:52:27,640
Speaker 1: think that's for a reason, whichause that he is very

875
00:52:27,719 --> 00:52:31,320
Speaker 1: visually appealing style that is, perhaps if you have lived

876
00:52:31,360 --> 00:52:35,360
Speaker 1: a little bit, only appealing to an extent. But the

877
00:52:35,719 --> 00:52:37,960
Speaker 1: reason I bring that up is because I think Margot

878
00:52:37,960 --> 00:52:41,920
Speaker 1: Tennenbaumb is kind of a very commonly cited female like

879
00:52:42,200 --> 00:52:46,399
Speaker 1: role model into in the Wes Anderson's BuzzFeed quizzes about her,

880
00:52:46,640 --> 00:52:50,360
Speaker 1: we took it disticals all kind Yeah, regretfully, I was

881
00:52:50,400 --> 00:52:52,439
Speaker 1: a Margot, you were a chass. I was a chass.

882
00:52:52,480 --> 00:52:57,319
Speaker 1: Ten I'm gonna look at you completely differently. It's because

883
00:52:57,320 --> 00:53:01,239
Speaker 1: I'm pretty neurotic and extremely concerned about children's safety. You're

884
00:53:01,239 --> 00:53:08,840
Speaker 1: an amazing father. Yeah so much. You're welcome. I uh suck, no, no, no,

885
00:53:08,960 --> 00:53:12,040
Speaker 1: I mean, but Margot Tennenbaum is the central female character,

886
00:53:12,080 --> 00:53:15,719
Speaker 1: and I think she's very often referenced and cited as

887
00:53:15,760 --> 00:53:19,480
Speaker 1: like an early you know, female avatar for for young

888
00:53:19,560 --> 00:53:23,120
Speaker 1: female viewers, and the fact that we are really only

889
00:53:23,160 --> 00:53:25,759
Speaker 1: given a glimpse of what we could be given and

890
00:53:25,840 --> 00:53:28,799
Speaker 1: she's still largely defined by her relationship to men is

891
00:53:28,840 --> 00:53:33,920
Speaker 1: disappointing and I missed opportunity to give young women character

892
00:53:34,080 --> 00:53:39,160
Speaker 1: of a little more substance. So one nipple and uh,

893
00:53:39,440 --> 00:53:43,160
Speaker 1: I'll give mine a sing sing to Jenny, thank you

894
00:53:43,200 --> 00:53:45,080
Speaker 1: so much for being here. We've had a great time

895
00:53:45,120 --> 00:53:49,520
Speaker 1: with you. Is the best deep dives into pop culture.

896
00:53:50,600 --> 00:53:53,799
Speaker 1: Where can people find you online? At Jenny Yang dot

897
00:53:53,840 --> 00:53:59,000
Speaker 1: tv and every user name Jenny yngg tv. Yeah, follow Jenny.

898
00:53:59,120 --> 00:54:01,520
Speaker 1: Check out our stand up She's great. You can follow

899
00:54:01,560 --> 00:54:05,320
Speaker 1: us the Bechel Cast on Twitter and Instagram and Facebook,

900
00:54:05,360 --> 00:54:09,480
Speaker 1: all the social media is. Subscribe to our Matreon. It's

901
00:54:09,560 --> 00:54:11,680
Speaker 1: five dollars a month and you get to bonus episodes

902
00:54:12,160 --> 00:54:16,480
Speaker 1: and otherwise. Um, we just encourage you to, just like

903
00:54:16,640 --> 00:54:19,759
Speaker 1: I don't know, be critical of the art you're consuming,

904
00:54:19,800 --> 00:54:24,480
Speaker 1: you're guying, especially when you really like it. Yeah, bye,

905
00:54:24,840 --> 00:54:25,640
Speaker 1: love you, Bye bye.