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Speaker 1: Hey, how's it going, everybody? Episode eighty The Hunting Collectives

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Speaker 1: coming at you right now. We got a lot to

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Speaker 1: do it, a lot to cover, and this is gonna

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Speaker 1: be all about upland birds, gun dogs, shotguns, real fancy

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Speaker 1: type stuff, right Phil. I wouldn't know because I did

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Speaker 1: not sit in on this um episode. Oh you were in,

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Speaker 1: you did well? Yeah? Well I talked, yes here in

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Speaker 1: a few I talked about my dog. I didn't hear

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Speaker 1: your interview with Ben Bene the other Benno Ben Oh Williams,

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Speaker 1: Ben Oh Williams. Yeah, but we did. We did cover Mango. Yes,

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Speaker 1: So Mangoes coming up. We also have Morgan Mason, Joe

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Speaker 1: Ferronado for the mediator crew. We went out did a

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Speaker 1: little bluegrass hunt up in the hills Uh National Forest

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Speaker 1: here around town. Talk about that, talk about ah, the

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Speaker 1: mysterious but beloved Mango. Do you want to titilate anybody

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Speaker 1: with them? Yeah? Sure, we talk about um my dog,

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Speaker 1: my family's dog. Her name is Mango. Ben is not

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Speaker 1: a fan of the name, but we go, we go

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Speaker 1: more stupid more into that here. Yeah, so hang around

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Speaker 1: for that. Yes, And also Joe and Morgan is pups

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Speaker 1: they're dogs too, Ferg and Opinion and we talk about

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Speaker 1: Opinion's name origin. It's pretty cool. You'll like it. And

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Speaker 1: then we went to Livingston, Montana and we hung out

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Speaker 1: with Ben oh Williams. And he is a legendary in

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Speaker 1: my opinion, uh Hungarian partridge hunter. He is a Brittany

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Speaker 1: breeder and owner, a writer, kind of the seminal writer

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Speaker 1: in the upland world. He had a lot of great stories.

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Speaker 1: He's been upland hunting in this in the Shields Valley

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Speaker 1: of Montana since the early nineteen sixties. He was literally

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Speaker 1: the first person to do it. So he's got a

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Speaker 1: lot of great stories at the great the right old age,

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Speaker 1: I believe of eight one. But he's still out there hunting,

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Speaker 1: so stick around for that. But before we get that,

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Speaker 1: we gotta lot to cover here, a lot to cover.

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Speaker 1: We're gonna do it quick. Um. Federal premium ammunition. What

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Speaker 1: do we use? We're on upland hunt, we use federal

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Speaker 1: premium ammo. Um. I only missed twice, Phil and I

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Speaker 1: shot three times and missed twice. Do you feel like

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Speaker 1: that's that's that? That would be a solid batting average,

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Speaker 1: a Hall of Fame batting average. Sure, sure, feel skeptical. Um,

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Speaker 1: we were using Federal Premium, the high velocity upland load.

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Speaker 1: It's a great load. I'm using it two and three

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Speaker 1: quarter in shell with a seven shot size of seven UM.

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Speaker 1: And this is a premium branded copper plated lead shot,

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Speaker 1: brass plated heads, high velocity, pretty tight, pretty consistent patterns

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Speaker 1: from the folks at Federal Premium Ammunition. So go to

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Speaker 1: Federal Premium dot com pick up some of those upland loads.

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Speaker 1: You're going to enjoy it unless you live in California. Um,

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Speaker 1: then you can't. So just a warning, as it says

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Speaker 1: on their website, warning for California residence. It's a quick

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Speaker 1: little warning, so watch what you're doing with that. But

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Speaker 1: go to Federal Premium dot Com. And then Eddie, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: he's got a new backpack out. I don't know if

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Speaker 1: you want to call it a backpack. They probably yeah,

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Speaker 1: they do. Um. Steve Ronella had one. I was playing

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Speaker 1: around with it. It is. It's badass. He loves it.

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Speaker 1: I love. It's called the Crossroads Backpack twenty three. Uh.

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Speaker 1: It's your everyday durable pack if you're going back to

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Speaker 1: school or if you're going back to the woods. It

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Speaker 1: doesn't really matter. It's the Eddie Crossroads backpack at eddie

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Speaker 1: dot com. You can enjoy that. Go check it out.

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Speaker 1: I've got one and I love it. Steve Ronella has

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Speaker 1: one and he was saying its praises to me the

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Speaker 1: other day. So go to Eddie dot com and check

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Speaker 1: it out. But before we use this show, I got,

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Speaker 1: I got. I do have one request from you. We

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Speaker 1: have a new segment coming, right, Phil, a new segment coming. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: we do. It's it's exciting. We'll keep all the details.

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Speaker 1: Seems like we've we've been, You've been really on top

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Speaker 1: of these new segments. Yeah, this is a real one.

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Speaker 1: The rude comments one, Yeah, this is a real one.

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Speaker 1: Though those are fake ones. Those are the ones I

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Speaker 1: do because it amuses me. This is a real one though.

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Speaker 1: Um this one. We're gonna do ten of them from

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Speaker 1: between now and the end of the year. They're gonna

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Speaker 1: be called not so sharp moments. And so what I

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Speaker 1: need you guys all to do is very very very important,

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Speaker 1: and Phil and I will be giving our are bumbling

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Speaker 1: not so sharp moments in our lives. But we need

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Speaker 1: you to write into th HC at the mediator dot com.

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Speaker 1: That's th HC at the Mediator dot com and tell

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Speaker 1: us sometimes that you're your disappointed performance while hunting we're

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Speaker 1: doing things outside. We've all had bumbling moments. I have

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Speaker 1: plenty of them. Let's celebrate failure here at the only

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Speaker 1: collective and and work on those not so sharp moments.

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Speaker 1: That's something that we're gonna be doing ten of them.

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Speaker 1: So if you're write in, we'll happily feature you. We

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Speaker 1: may even call you on the phone. You don't know,

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Speaker 1: we don't know. We're swinging it. You won't know. You

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Speaker 1: don't know. You won't know how we got your phone number.

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Speaker 1: You'll just you'll get a phone call. I don't know.

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Speaker 1: Phil has powers, man, Yeah, Phil can do it. So

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Speaker 1: not so sharp moments send him in. They can be

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Speaker 1: as long or as short as you please. I want

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Speaker 1: to hear some funny, some fun lighthearted moments outside where

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Speaker 1: you messed up. I got plenty. I know that every

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Speaker 1: time I go hunting, there's one of these. In fact,

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Speaker 1: the other day I went to UH podcast at Benno

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Speaker 1: Williams's house and I forgot the podcast get So let's

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Speaker 1: start with that. We got all the way there forty

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Speaker 1: five minute drive not so sharp, not so sharp, no

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Speaker 1: pretty dull um, But we ended up making it happen.

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Speaker 1: So there's plenty of those, I'm sure out there th

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Speaker 1: HC at the media dot com right in, please right in,

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Speaker 1: we need you. So, without further ado, episode number eighty.

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Speaker 1: I guess I grew up on an all the road

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Speaker 1: to the meadal. I always did what I told until

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Speaker 1: I found out that my brand new closes the game

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Speaker 1: second hand from the rich kids next door, and I

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Speaker 1: grew um bad like It's like, well, I mean, they

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Speaker 1: have a thousand things inside in my head I wish

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Speaker 1: I ain't seen, and now I just wanted to real

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Speaker 1: bad dream of being a lack. I'm coming a pot

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Speaker 1: of the scenes. But thank you, Jack Daniel. No, no, everybody,

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Speaker 1: episode eighty of the podcast coming at you. This is

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Speaker 1: gonna be nine when you're listening to this baby. And um,

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Speaker 1: hopefully I got the episode number right, Phil, because last

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Speaker 1: time I said the episode number wrong. So well, if

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Speaker 1: we if we did everything right, the listeners should have

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Speaker 1: no idea. So go back and listen to go back

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Speaker 1: and listen to episode seventy eight. Stop now we'll take

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Speaker 1: a quick break. Insert the Jeopardy theme song. Yeah. Actually

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Speaker 1: I didn'tell them what to listen for. But but when

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Speaker 1: you go back, when you go back, listen to when

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Speaker 1: I say episode seventy eight, and see if you can

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Speaker 1: tell Phils wizard audio magic. Because I said the wrong

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Speaker 1: episode number and I had to go back and record

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Speaker 1: me and Phil were in here. I was going episode

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Speaker 1: seventy eight. Uh huh are you did a bunch of

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Speaker 1: different takes. Hopefully it works, So go back and listen

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Speaker 1: to see if you can pick out that I'm totally

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Speaker 1: faking it. Yeah, not enough white claw on the blood

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Speaker 1: stream at that point. Not enough, but it was not

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Speaker 1: in homeostasis. Just this, this is to me, just to

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Speaker 1: let everybody know that all of this could be fake.

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Speaker 1: Like Phil has enough audio skills that everything I say

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Speaker 1: could be manipulated. It's like that Joe Rogan audio ye

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Speaker 1: voice manipulator. Yeah you think you think all that Ben

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Speaker 1: O'Brien a genius. That's probably what you've been thinking just lately,

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Speaker 1: still making me sound. Yeah. Ben's actually going on vacation

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Speaker 1: for two weeks, so every time you hear him talk,

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Speaker 1: it's just it's it's an app. It's just AI. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's all. So if you ever, if you ever feel

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Speaker 1: like maybe they ca didence of my voices off, that's

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Speaker 1: probably because I messed up and we had to go

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Speaker 1: back and fix it. So I just want to let

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Speaker 1: you a little behind the scenes content. We're here. They

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Speaker 1: filled the big Bucks film makes the Medium Bucks. It's

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Speaker 1: about right, and I get his commission podcast downloads. So

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Speaker 1: how did you work that deal out? I just paid

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Speaker 1: it up. Okay, cool, Yes, I go to I go

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Speaker 1: to Phill's house and take something every week. Is this

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Speaker 1: is news to me? But I'll get a security system reparations.

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Speaker 1: Phil uh, we got Morgan Mason and everybody, how do

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Speaker 1: how do? And Joe Fernada, Hey everybody, Um, Joe you

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Speaker 1: have this is your only your second ever podcast. How

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Speaker 1: are you feeling right now? I'm good. You did well

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Speaker 1: last time. I didn't even know you told me afterwards.

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Speaker 1: That was my first podcast. I was like, wow, like

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Speaker 1: three minutes of fame on the Meat Eater podcast when

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Speaker 1: I had to describe a pill. Well that's I mean, well,

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Speaker 1: then you've been on. But you you weren't like featured,

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Speaker 1: you weren't a feature speaker. Yeah, they just had me

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Speaker 1: explain some stuff. Steve said my name wrong and so

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Speaker 1: fair and tattoo Tatto that that's the little state nickname Tatto. Well,

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Speaker 1: actually I heard you make a cameo appearance on the

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Speaker 1: Rogan Pack podcast called Steve during but I called him back,

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Speaker 1: calling all him back because he had called me. I

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Speaker 1: missed his call and call I'm back. Better call Steve

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Speaker 1: back because it's important. So now, like the famous Joe,

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Speaker 1: how many times has Morgan Mace have been mentioned on

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Speaker 1: the Joe Rogan podcast. Probably none. Well, I'm just gonna

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Speaker 1: go cry in the corner now, so I'm irrelevant. Yep,

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Speaker 1: it's You've been on probably the three best podcasts out there. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I think right, Phil, Yeah, Phil lash feels like anyway, Um,

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Speaker 1: we're doing this on the heels of a wonderful blue

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Speaker 1: grouse on. I guess you want to say blue grouse.

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Speaker 1: It was a grouse on. We would have shot any

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Speaker 1: grouse at the point that we were in I want

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Speaker 1: to say mountain grouse. Mountain grouse on, that's probably a

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Speaker 1: good way to say it. In the hill the mountains

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Speaker 1: of outside Bows. Man, I weren't telling you where. I

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Speaker 1: know you're thinking where. Where were you gonna tell you yes,

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Speaker 1: to keep it secret. To keep it secret. Now, I

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Speaker 1: went to my ex bot and shot a bunch of guns.

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Speaker 1: You know, that's what you know. We're just trying to

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Speaker 1: crowd him into the right area and we're trying to

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Speaker 1: push him down into the private where I can't go. Um,

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Speaker 1: but we went there and we we took your your

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Speaker 1: gun dogs. I'll let you guys introduce your gun dogs

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Speaker 1: to the show. They're not here, but you can just describe,

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Speaker 1: tell the story of how you came to own these dogs.

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Speaker 1: I'll let you go first. Morgan with with Mediator's original

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Speaker 1: office dog. Yep. So I've been looking at bird dogs

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Speaker 1: for quite a while, a couple of years, knowing that

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Speaker 1: I was wanting to get one. Just needed to have

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Speaker 1: my lifestyle settled down a little bit. So move up

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Speaker 1: to Bozeman, got a job at meeting and I was like, hey,

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Speaker 1: good great time for a dog. Actually got him a

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Speaker 1: little bit before. But um, I picked up a Griff.

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Speaker 1: My brother and I had been chatting for quite a while.

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Speaker 1: Explain in Griff, explained Griff, because full name Joe has

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Speaker 1: full name Joe has corrected me a few times on

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Speaker 1: the way that I say these words and what the

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Speaker 1: were the dogs to be? He's like, oh, dog, but

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Speaker 1: you guys have sophisticated waste to speak about these dogs.

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Speaker 1: It's important. Yeah, show's on fire, right, Yeah, he's very upset.

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Speaker 1: So I have a wire haired, pointing Griffon. If you

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Speaker 1: want to say, there an end at the end. Uh,

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Speaker 1: there's an end at the end. Do you say, yeah,

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Speaker 1: like pomp news bullshit? But Americans, Americans, we call him

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Speaker 1: Griffs like a natural light beer as a natty light.

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Speaker 1: That's right, Okay, we're too lazy to say the rest

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Speaker 1: of it. I like Griff. I'm having a son here

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Speaker 1: pretty soon. I would would name him Griff, and I'd

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Speaker 1: be all right with it. What do you guys think,

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Speaker 1: Griff O'Brien good work? I'm okay, yeah, I don't feel

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Speaker 1: like real electrically. Just so on podcast, we'll have a

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Speaker 1: contest or some shit about you. Okay, we'll have something

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Speaker 1: to drive engagement around naming my son. Something really give away,

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Speaker 1: some good Instagram. So that's some good Instagram. I gotta

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Speaker 1: get the engagement. That's really what this is all about.

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Speaker 1: Riff Hunter O'Brien, Danger, O'Brien, danger, Like like what you

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Speaker 1: say anial name is Austin Powers, Austin Danger Powers. Um. Alright,

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Speaker 1: so you got your griff all and uh you named opinion.

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Speaker 1: Why'd you name him that? I kind of nerded out

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Speaker 1: on the name. Did you ever ask Ben to guess? No, Ben,

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Speaker 1: before you tell him, you should guess your first two,

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Speaker 1: don't start. Don't start jumping in there second. No, it's

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Speaker 1: a it's a great question because everybody I've heard him

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Speaker 1: explain the name to like, they've all had to guess before. Opinion, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and nobody could get it in. You too, feel you're

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Speaker 1: jumping in on this one, Phil. You do it, Phil,

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Speaker 1: because I'm gonna get it wrong. Opinion, opinion, rack and

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Speaker 1: pinion steering close. But no. Lots of people say that

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Speaker 1: that's the second most guest. I have no idea. Okay,

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Speaker 1: it sounds like that has to do with like something

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Speaker 1: has to do like balance, Like it's a tool you use.

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Speaker 1: Usually in Montana people name their dogs after like rivers

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Speaker 1: and ship mountain ranges. All the dogs are like west

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Speaker 1: Fork or the Salmon it's a long dog, or barretta yeah,

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Speaker 1: something like opinion opinions opinion. The pinion. Feathers on a

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Speaker 1: bird are the feathers on the wing that give it

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Speaker 1: vertical lift. So when you're flushing a bird, they're using

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Speaker 1: the pinion feathers likeance. I like that. That is good,

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Speaker 1: it's good, just like gosh, yeah, I peeked on the

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Speaker 1: well and yeah, well done. I I thought it was

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Speaker 1: gonna be stupid, but that's not. That is great. My

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Speaker 1: next dog is gonna be like Frank or something like that. Frank,

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Speaker 1: what's that about? I don't know lot dogs? All right? Well,

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Speaker 1: how old is is? Opinion? Opinion is about year and

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Speaker 1: a half. In between a year and a half two years. Okay, Joe,

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Speaker 1: let's we're gonna get the other thing. I'm gonna have

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Speaker 1: other questions. But Joe tell us about Ferg. For so,

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Speaker 1: the reason why I get passionate about, you know, the

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Speaker 1: breeds and stuff, is because Ferg is a German wire

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Speaker 1: hair pointer. So he looks almost identical opinion, as you

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Speaker 1: can tell. But they're completely different breeds. Um. But so

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Speaker 1: that's that's the big one there. And he just turned

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Speaker 1: a year right before opening day this year. He's doing well. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: he's doing good. He's doing very well. He kicked kicked ass,

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Speaker 1: kicked a bird tail she's doing good now he has

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Speaker 1: a six growl shot over him. Three homes and yeah,

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Speaker 1: yeah are non dog owners, right, phil? Uh, technically I

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Speaker 1: do own a dog now, but I like, let's not

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Speaker 1: get technical. It's not a dog. What do you do

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Speaker 1: with it? I look at it if it looks hungry,

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Speaker 1: I dropped some food on the ground, birds around. No,

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Speaker 1: it's ah, it's she's an Australian kelpie. It's a hurting dog,

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Speaker 1: very full of energy, and I am too scared to

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Speaker 1: Yeah she could um, but yeah, I didn't grow up

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Speaker 1: my She's more my wife's dogg than mine, which said

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Speaker 1: it sounds like a mean thing to say. I do

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Speaker 1: love her, She's very sweet. But I I didn't grow

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Speaker 1: up with dogs, though, so I don't really have that

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Speaker 1: kind of attachment either. Man. I had one dog growing up.

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Speaker 1: Its name was Ross, and it was batshit crazy, mean crazy,

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Speaker 1: like I had no the things that did make made

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Speaker 1: no sense to anyone. It would just stand by the

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Speaker 1: door in wine for days days. It had a mental

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Speaker 1: disorder of some kind. And that was really the only

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Speaker 1: dog I've ever had. Had a girlfriend that had a

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Speaker 1: pit bull one time, um, and I live with the

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Speaker 1: pit bull and it just I just remember mostly farts

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Speaker 1: from the dog, and that's it really, uh my only

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Speaker 1: real dog experience. Now, you know, I've got some young sons,

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Speaker 1: so I'm gonna have to get a dog eventually. So

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Speaker 1: a lot of this for me is just a little

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Speaker 1: bit of research, like what dogs should I get? Um?

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Speaker 1: So as a non dog goinger, I would like to

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Speaker 1: understand the relationship that you guys have to these dogs

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Speaker 1: and watching them work. Joe yesterday was more concerned or

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Speaker 1: more like what he's trying to get out of the

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Speaker 1: hunt was not grousemeat. It was watching his dog work

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Speaker 1: and watching the progress that this dog had made over

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Speaker 1: training and time and work, um, And that was the

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Speaker 1: real reward. So that's something I think all folks that

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Speaker 1: are hunters and maybe don't have dogs or upland hunters

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Speaker 1: that don't have dogs, or you know, I haven't trained

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Speaker 1: a dog from a puppy and understand they just don't understand.

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Speaker 1: They don't understand the reward of seeing that all that

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Speaker 1: work coming to fruition on a hunt like that. So

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Speaker 1: who wants to take that? Who wants to try to

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Speaker 1: explain that? Which one of you? Both of you jump in.

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Speaker 1: I've like I feel the same way on that. It's

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Speaker 1: like there's a certain aspect that I love going out

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Speaker 1: and upland hunting. But at the same time, now that

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Speaker 1: I own a dog and I put training into my

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Speaker 1: dog and I've done all this work with him, the

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Speaker 1: more bird exposure I can possibly give that dog to

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Speaker 1: drive his natural instinct and get him going, the better

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Speaker 1: off that dog is going to be in. The happier

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Speaker 1: that dog is going to be, um, the better it's

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Speaker 1: going to be in the field. So yeah, the more

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Speaker 1: time that you can get out there and just enjoy that,

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Speaker 1: and like that just shows like as I goes over

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Speaker 1: time and that dog starts to response to the bird

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Speaker 1: and they start to learn birds, and not only like

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Speaker 1: learn how to bird hunt, but learn how to bird

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Speaker 1: hunt certain species. A pheasants going to react differently than

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Speaker 1: a mountain grouse, like a blue grouse, And so to

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Speaker 1: see that dog being able to like be on the

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Speaker 1: tail of a pheasant and be able to sweep around

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Speaker 1: it and block it before it starts to run too far.

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Speaker 1: And so that way you can close a distance in

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Speaker 1: between the dog and the pheasant and get that flush

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Speaker 1: to see those sort of things happening is just incredible.

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Speaker 1: So to see that dog click um through different experiences

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Speaker 1: is it's an awesome thing to see you. Yeah, and

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Speaker 1: it's great. I mean the hunt that we did yesterday,

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Speaker 1: you can you could do that hung without dogs, but boy,

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Speaker 1: it's gonna suck. Um. There's such a good I mean,

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Speaker 1: you hate to reference him as a tool, but that's

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Speaker 1: in this in this case there you know, a tool

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Speaker 1: for better hunting, but that's not really the point. And

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Speaker 1: I think you know for yesterday, he kicked he just

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Speaker 1: kicked ass. I mean he we were in some pretty

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Speaker 1: tough conditions. It was wet, the birds, A lot of

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Speaker 1: the birds we feel like it's certainly early in the morning,

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Speaker 1: we're up in a tree or didn't want to didn't

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Speaker 1: want to flush, they'd rather just run um. And we

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Speaker 1: we had a lot of instances where we probably could

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Speaker 1: have done better, and fer showed us up. Oh yeah, definitely.

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Speaker 1: Like that was one thing that I was super proud

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Speaker 1: of it. When we got down on that first covey

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Speaker 1: of birds, any pointed the one in the tree that

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Speaker 1: we couldn't get our safeties often time to shoot um.

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Speaker 1: But stuff like that, like Morgan said, when a dog

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Speaker 1: starts to figure out the birds cifically that you're hunting

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Speaker 1: at that time. It's really cool because they're they're learning

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Speaker 1: at the same time. And when when you've been going

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Speaker 1: through all this training, I mean since I brought for

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Speaker 1: a home has been just like constant training. Everybody asks

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Speaker 1: it's like, how many hours a day do you put

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Speaker 1: in on training? It's it's not an hour count, it's

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Speaker 1: a round the clock. You're always training him. Anytime they're

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Speaker 1: with you, they're they're being trained type of thing. And

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Speaker 1: watching him work in the field like that and figuring

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Speaker 1: out that, oh, I smell this bird, but it's up

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Speaker 1: in the tree, so I'm gonna point a bird in

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Speaker 1: the tree. It's it's awesome, it's super cool. Yeah. It

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Speaker 1: becomes a whole culture around Upland hunting and certainly our

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Speaker 1: interview guests that's coming up is Ben oh Williams. He's

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Speaker 1: eighty one years old and he's awesome and he is

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Speaker 1: renowned for many things within the Upland world, dog training

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Speaker 1: being one of them, um Western Upland hunting tactics and

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Speaker 1: just kind of being a voice for that culture. Uh.

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Speaker 1: And it's an interesting one because it brings in the

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Speaker 1: dogs so strongly it brings in, Um, there's just a

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Speaker 1: different look of an up of a guy who's just

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Speaker 1: endo upland hunting. We talk about, uh, the waterfowl hunter,

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Speaker 1: the typical to typified at least waterfowl hunt in our world,

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Speaker 1: and there's there's also a very stereotypical upland guy from

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Speaker 1: from years past. Um, I think, can you go into

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Speaker 1: that stereotype? But no, I don't want to tweet like

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Speaker 1: that old white guys with that are wearing or us.

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Speaker 1: But but but I think Ben and you'll hear some

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Speaker 1: of his stories, you know, brings to light how kind

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Speaker 1: of that culture, what what it means to own a

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Speaker 1: dog and to to train a dog and have that

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Speaker 1: be a big part of your life, because it's certainly

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Speaker 1: while learning to alcohol or so some of these other

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Speaker 1: things become part of your life. You know, by getting

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Speaker 1: a pet for this purpose or primarily for this purpose

385
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Speaker 1: or in some vein for this purpose takes over a

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Speaker 1: pretty big part of your life. I mean, you guys

387
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Speaker 1: can speak to that, like you have you own a

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Speaker 1: gun dog? Never they don't. You don't never get to

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Speaker 1: take a break from it. It's a commitment. So I'm

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Speaker 1: sure I meaned for either of you. I mean, I'm

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Speaker 1: sure it's much more rewarding to see that all work out. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: And that goes back into the training aspect and looking

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Speaker 1: at what Ben's done in his life and like how

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Speaker 1: he looks at training dogs, And that's what I've tried

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Speaker 1: to implement. It is like get your basic obedience done,

396
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Speaker 1: do all that in the backyard, haven't respond when you're

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Speaker 1: trying to call him back in all of that, all

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Speaker 1: the basic stuff. But then when you take that dog

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Speaker 1: out in the field, just let it hunt and just

400
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Speaker 1: hunt that dog as much as you can, and that

401
00:21:30,440 --> 00:21:33,280
Speaker 1: dog will learn how to bird hunt due to birds

402
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Speaker 1: and getting that wild sit in his face, how the

403
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Speaker 1: birds reacts. Just like you can put birds in a

404
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Speaker 1: launcher and go play around like that'll that'll work to

405
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Speaker 1: help the point and all that. But to really get

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Speaker 1: a dog going, like just take it out and hunt it. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: That's that's one thing I've learned from Ben or ben

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Speaker 1: O Williams to damn thing ship for Ben Brod ben

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Speaker 1: O Williams, Um, Yeah, I think a big part of

410
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Speaker 1: talking to a guy like that who's who's lived is

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Speaker 1: learning learning those little idiosyncrasies, right learning you know not

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Speaker 1: only the stories he has about the relationships with these dogs,

413
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Speaker 1: but exactly what to look for when you're out there,

414
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Speaker 1: what to look for for success with the look for

415
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Speaker 1: for failure, what's to look on for workable teachable moments.

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Speaker 1: I think all of that you learned from ben Um,

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Speaker 1: and then it just it colors a little bit more

418
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Speaker 1: of a hunt. And when we were out there yesterday,

419
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Speaker 1: you can look at different aspects of the way the

420
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Speaker 1: dogs are working, the way they're succeeding or failing, and

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Speaker 1: just adds a little bit more to the hunt, that's

422
00:22:31,040 --> 00:22:34,120
Speaker 1: for sure. Yea, absolutely, it's funny. I was actually talking

423
00:22:34,119 --> 00:22:37,879
Speaker 1: to Danielle pruitt Um yesterday. She uh, she's looking at

424
00:22:37,960 --> 00:22:40,200
Speaker 1: doing a hunt up in up here in Montana. A

425
00:22:40,240 --> 00:22:42,640
Speaker 1: little bit later on, she's just like, I can't bring

426
00:22:42,640 --> 00:22:45,320
Speaker 1: my dog up. I want to come like hunt sharp tails,

427
00:22:45,359 --> 00:22:46,679
Speaker 1: Like what do I do? And I was just like,

428
00:22:46,720 --> 00:22:49,879
Speaker 1: you know what, I have never ever in my life

429
00:22:50,040 --> 00:22:52,480
Speaker 1: gone on a bird hunt without a dog. I was like,

430
00:22:52,480 --> 00:22:55,000
Speaker 1: I don't know what to tell you. Bring your dog.

431
00:22:55,840 --> 00:22:58,240
Speaker 1: I figured that one out. Bring your dog. No, It's

432
00:22:58,240 --> 00:23:01,400
Speaker 1: just it adds the experience. I enjoy, enjoy the YESA

433
00:23:01,480 --> 00:23:03,880
Speaker 1: we did we How many times do we miss? Joe?

434
00:23:03,880 --> 00:23:07,640
Speaker 1: Do we miss any? I shot once yesterday and I missed. Yeah,

435
00:23:08,000 --> 00:23:10,280
Speaker 1: I shot three times. Yeah, and he shot one bird

436
00:23:10,800 --> 00:23:12,399
Speaker 1: that's up on top of the ridge. When I split

437
00:23:12,440 --> 00:23:16,119
Speaker 1: off from you guys, an artillery range going on down below.

438
00:23:16,400 --> 00:23:18,320
Speaker 1: I feel like I might have shot maybe four or

439
00:23:18,320 --> 00:23:21,359
Speaker 1: five times. I only shot once because I know on

440
00:23:21,520 --> 00:23:25,000
Speaker 1: that hail Mary shot that I missed. The gun jammed up.

441
00:23:25,119 --> 00:23:27,080
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, and I was just like, what's going on?

442
00:23:27,600 --> 00:23:29,239
Speaker 1: So we had we had one weak split up from

443
00:23:29,240 --> 00:23:30,800
Speaker 1: Morgan More. We went up the ridge and we kind

444
00:23:30,800 --> 00:23:33,320
Speaker 1: of went down the road and and down into this

445
00:23:33,359 --> 00:23:35,760
Speaker 1: little cut face. I mean, we're in a pretty steep,

446
00:23:36,320 --> 00:23:39,800
Speaker 1: uh ridgeline that we're going around the corner, and of

447
00:23:39,840 --> 00:23:43,000
Speaker 1: course Fer drops down into this real brushy little meadow

448
00:23:43,040 --> 00:23:46,240
Speaker 1: that that drops off. He gets down in there, he

449
00:23:46,280 --> 00:23:48,840
Speaker 1: flushes one out of a tree. So we dropped down

450
00:23:48,920 --> 00:23:52,120
Speaker 1: kind of getting close to him, and at some point

451
00:23:52,160 --> 00:23:54,120
Speaker 1: we're going back up the hill. He runs in front

452
00:23:54,119 --> 00:23:58,359
Speaker 1: of us and flushes what three three grouse at first

453
00:23:58,440 --> 00:24:01,160
Speaker 1: just the just the one took off and one took

454
00:24:01,160 --> 00:24:03,359
Speaker 1: off first and flew and these things like he locked

455
00:24:03,440 --> 00:24:05,360
Speaker 1: up back on point and yeah, I was like, oh,

456
00:24:05,520 --> 00:24:07,400
Speaker 1: he must be when they can smell on the one

457
00:24:07,440 --> 00:24:08,879
Speaker 1: bird right there, when they get up in the air.

458
00:24:08,920 --> 00:24:11,040
Speaker 1: When these girls get up in the air in these

459
00:24:11,040 --> 00:24:14,399
Speaker 1: steep ridges, they take off, they take off, and they

460
00:24:14,440 --> 00:24:16,200
Speaker 1: soar to who the hell knows We're so you kind

461
00:24:16,200 --> 00:24:18,320
Speaker 1: of really have one shot at them, you know, some

462
00:24:18,359 --> 00:24:20,720
Speaker 1: other upland game, not in a mountain situation, you know,

463
00:24:20,840 --> 00:24:24,960
Speaker 1: not in this kind of steep country. You can flush

464
00:24:25,040 --> 00:24:27,320
Speaker 1: him and wash where they land and possibly if they're

465
00:24:27,359 --> 00:24:29,240
Speaker 1: not just going to run off, get back on him.

466
00:24:29,320 --> 00:24:32,560
Speaker 1: In this case, you kind of have one shot. And

467
00:24:32,560 --> 00:24:34,440
Speaker 1: in the scenario where we were in, it's gonna probably

468
00:24:34,440 --> 00:24:37,280
Speaker 1: be a pretty long one. Um. And so yeah, the

469
00:24:37,280 --> 00:24:40,040
Speaker 1: first the first, the first bird is a pretty long shot.

470
00:24:40,080 --> 00:24:42,520
Speaker 1: We both cracked off at it, missed it. I think

471
00:24:42,520 --> 00:24:45,040
Speaker 1: at least four times, if not three times. He just

472
00:24:45,119 --> 00:24:48,040
Speaker 1: kept on a soaring And then we were kind of

473
00:24:48,080 --> 00:24:50,240
Speaker 1: comparing notes about that and talk to each other, and

474
00:24:50,240 --> 00:24:54,280
Speaker 1: and of course dogs still point dog dog is he's

475
00:24:54,760 --> 00:24:57,639
Speaker 1: over there on point and I'm and I literally said

476
00:24:57,640 --> 00:25:00,399
Speaker 1: the bend. I was like, oh, look, he must be

477
00:25:00,560 --> 00:25:03,880
Speaker 1: on old tan over there, and I looked back over

478
00:25:03,960 --> 00:25:07,440
Speaker 1: and he's just sitting there. And then four more birds flush.

479
00:25:07,680 --> 00:25:11,760
Speaker 1: What's that old san Jo? Trust your dog? Trust you

480
00:25:11,920 --> 00:25:15,400
Speaker 1: don't always trust your bird dog. Always trust your bird dog. Yeah,

481
00:25:15,600 --> 00:25:17,760
Speaker 1: we Um, I don't know that we didn't trust him.

482
00:25:17,800 --> 00:25:21,240
Speaker 1: We were just being We're just focused about our miss

483
00:25:21,520 --> 00:25:23,480
Speaker 1: and and by the time I got my shotgun. But

484
00:25:23,560 --> 00:25:26,520
Speaker 1: the fact when the one that we we killed flushed,

485
00:25:27,280 --> 00:25:29,280
Speaker 1: I wasn't sure if I had loaded my shotgun, but

486
00:25:29,320 --> 00:25:32,719
Speaker 1: I shouldered it anyway. It's like the safety off anyway.

487
00:25:32,720 --> 00:25:34,560
Speaker 1: I'm like, well, there's no I'm not gonna be able

488
00:25:34,600 --> 00:25:36,920
Speaker 1: to load it. So even if I didn't, I'll throw

489
00:25:36,920 --> 00:25:39,760
Speaker 1: her up and give her a click. But he flushed

490
00:25:39,800 --> 00:25:42,800
Speaker 1: a fifth grouse out of the same area. He kind

491
00:25:42,840 --> 00:25:46,320
Speaker 1: of flew towards us, and I popped him and he

492
00:25:46,400 --> 00:25:49,280
Speaker 1: dropped and that was our initial bird. And then Morgan

493
00:25:49,960 --> 00:25:52,960
Speaker 1: cracked another one later on. Um, and I feel it's

494
00:25:52,960 --> 00:25:56,120
Speaker 1: a three three bird a day limit per person, right,

495
00:25:56,160 --> 00:25:59,680
Speaker 1: so um, you're not out there. We could have shot

496
00:25:59,760 --> 00:26:02,520
Speaker 1: nine as makes we have shot. They're pretty big birds.

497
00:26:02,600 --> 00:26:05,600
Speaker 1: I UM, I cook my breasts up last night, just

498
00:26:05,600 --> 00:26:08,679
Speaker 1: put them over rice. It's pretty good, pretty good. But

499
00:26:08,760 --> 00:26:10,760
Speaker 1: we do have a fully plucked when we gonna figure

500
00:26:10,760 --> 00:26:12,800
Speaker 1: out what we're gonna do with what do you go?

501
00:26:12,960 --> 00:26:15,480
Speaker 1: You have plans for that? You? I've been thinking about that.

502
00:26:15,920 --> 00:26:18,119
Speaker 1: I mean the easiest thing in my mind is just

503
00:26:18,160 --> 00:26:20,359
Speaker 1: like toss that thing on the smoker and it's gonna

504
00:26:20,400 --> 00:26:23,239
Speaker 1: be delicious, especially since it's got the skin still on it.

505
00:26:23,280 --> 00:26:26,000
Speaker 1: But I'm gonna talk to Danielle and see, yeah, stuff

506
00:26:26,040 --> 00:26:28,320
Speaker 1: it was something, Yeah, do something fancy with it. She

507
00:26:28,359 --> 00:26:30,919
Speaker 1: does really good with all that. Me I'm just like,

508
00:26:31,160 --> 00:26:35,000
Speaker 1: maybe I'll put some ketchup on it. The last night

509
00:26:35,040 --> 00:26:37,040
Speaker 1: my wife said, are you gonna I'm not gonna under

510
00:26:37,080 --> 00:26:39,440
Speaker 1: the throw it in a cast iron skillet and put

511
00:26:39,480 --> 00:26:41,720
Speaker 1: it over rice and it was great. Man. Well I

512
00:26:41,800 --> 00:26:44,760
Speaker 1: use that fins and feather up from trigger on that

513
00:26:44,800 --> 00:26:49,919
Speaker 1: stage grouse and kept it whole. Uh put it on

514
00:26:49,960 --> 00:26:53,240
Speaker 1: the grill. Oh man, it was good. Explain spatch cocking, Joe.

515
00:26:53,640 --> 00:26:56,159
Speaker 1: It half the bird basically, just so you could lay

516
00:26:56,200 --> 00:26:58,280
Speaker 1: it on the grill so it cooks more evenly than

517
00:26:58,280 --> 00:27:00,920
Speaker 1: to putting the whole bird On't still the whole bird,

518
00:27:00,920 --> 00:27:02,479
Speaker 1: but you're like cut down the back of it and

519
00:27:02,480 --> 00:27:04,159
Speaker 1: like open it up. Yeah, so you just kind of

520
00:27:04,200 --> 00:27:09,800
Speaker 1: like play it open. Yeah I have actually, yeah, you

521
00:27:09,840 --> 00:27:13,360
Speaker 1: have what have you? Slash cock like a corners game head? Yes, exactly,

522
00:27:13,480 --> 00:27:16,280
Speaker 1: really yeah, I mean one that I just bought from

523
00:27:16,320 --> 00:27:19,760
Speaker 1: the store. I didn't I didn't get it with the

524
00:27:19,800 --> 00:27:25,000
Speaker 1: bird dog your dog what's the dog's name? Mango? Boy,

525
00:27:25,200 --> 00:27:31,760
Speaker 1: that is unfortunate. It's a slightly cooler than Pinion, don't

526
00:27:31,800 --> 00:27:35,000
Speaker 1: you guys think? Boy, your dog name is Mango. She's

527
00:27:35,000 --> 00:27:41,119
Speaker 1: a sweet pup. It's his favorite. Your fan club is

528
00:27:41,119 --> 00:27:42,840
Speaker 1: gonna either be I think your fan club might even

529
00:27:42,840 --> 00:27:46,320
Speaker 1: be into it. Phil. There's a lot of it says

530
00:27:46,359 --> 00:27:49,520
Speaker 1: something about both the people that right end like feels awesome.

531
00:27:49,640 --> 00:27:51,680
Speaker 1: Keep Phil. But they're gonna hear this part and they're

532
00:27:51,680 --> 00:27:54,680
Speaker 1: gonna have to have a real serious decision to make

533
00:27:54,680 --> 00:27:58,240
Speaker 1: to keep, whether you keep, whether to keep as a

534
00:27:58,240 --> 00:28:00,080
Speaker 1: part of your fan club, or you just get This

535
00:28:00,119 --> 00:28:02,000
Speaker 1: is the point where they got to get off the train.

536
00:28:02,080 --> 00:28:04,000
Speaker 1: The filterin My wife likes to name She wanted to

537
00:28:04,040 --> 00:28:06,200
Speaker 1: name it after a food, so she made this list

538
00:28:06,400 --> 00:28:09,520
Speaker 1: probably like fifty names of different like spices and ship

539
00:28:10,440 --> 00:28:13,399
Speaker 1: and this is my dog Cuban. Yeah, honestly, that might

540
00:28:13,440 --> 00:28:15,439
Speaker 1: have been on the list. No, joke. Really, Yeah, I

541
00:28:15,480 --> 00:28:18,280
Speaker 1: just learned about this dog named Kayak, and I just

542
00:28:18,320 --> 00:28:20,280
Speaker 1: like every time I hear they've been talking about I'm

543
00:28:20,320 --> 00:28:21,920
Speaker 1: just like, Oh, they're gonna put the Kayak on the roof.

544
00:28:21,960 --> 00:28:24,240
Speaker 1: I was like, Oh, no, that's a dog like that.

545
00:28:24,800 --> 00:28:30,200
Speaker 1: Something another in animate objects, my dog food processor. Yeah,

546
00:28:30,200 --> 00:28:34,560
Speaker 1: you had a list of foods. Uh huh yeah, why

547
00:28:35,800 --> 00:28:37,760
Speaker 1: was I don't know what was like? What was some

548
00:28:37,800 --> 00:28:41,680
Speaker 1: of the plan BC. Honestly, I think like pep Riko

549
00:28:41,840 --> 00:28:46,240
Speaker 1: was on there. That's way too many. Uh yeah, that's

550
00:28:46,240 --> 00:28:50,560
Speaker 1: way too much. Yeah, anything else. Cayenne that that's kind

551
00:28:50,600 --> 00:28:53,880
Speaker 1: of a good a little bit different. But you somehow

552
00:28:53,960 --> 00:28:56,680
Speaker 1: landed on mango. Mango she I don't know, she's got

553
00:28:56,680 --> 00:28:59,320
Speaker 1: an energy. I'm very much on board opinion at this point.

554
00:28:59,360 --> 00:29:02,920
Speaker 1: But Mango. She's completely black too, so she looks nothing

555
00:29:02,960 --> 00:29:07,000
Speaker 1: like like a bright, brightly colored no, but she's got

556
00:29:07,040 --> 00:29:11,680
Speaker 1: the personality of a mango. That makes sense, right, exactly

557
00:29:12,160 --> 00:29:19,480
Speaker 1: hard you're trying to cut up a mango that you

558
00:29:19,560 --> 00:29:23,640
Speaker 1: gotta take like a sledgehammer to him. It's terrible anyway,

559
00:29:23,800 --> 00:29:27,440
Speaker 1: that's a terrible dog's name. Um Phil And I'm sorry

560
00:29:27,440 --> 00:29:30,320
Speaker 1: if that's offensive, but just are you what are you feeling?

561
00:29:30,360 --> 00:29:34,840
Speaker 1: We don't approve. I'm not offended at all. I personally

562
00:29:35,160 --> 00:29:38,040
Speaker 1: like to meet it. I like to meet Mango and

563
00:29:38,160 --> 00:29:41,200
Speaker 1: this and spend some time around her and just maybe

564
00:29:41,440 --> 00:29:44,040
Speaker 1: I would change my mind. But for right now. Yeah,

565
00:29:44,080 --> 00:29:47,400
Speaker 1: if they're yeah, I may bring her in some day,

566
00:29:47,480 --> 00:29:52,280
Speaker 1: but um, it's probably not gonna happen. No, she is, yeah,

567
00:29:52,320 --> 00:29:54,480
Speaker 1: she we We picked her up from the shelter across

568
00:29:54,480 --> 00:29:56,600
Speaker 1: the past and Livingston, and she had a she was

569
00:29:56,640 --> 00:29:59,440
Speaker 1: just she was a stray on an Indian reservation before

570
00:29:59,520 --> 00:30:01,400
Speaker 1: we so we have no idea what her life was

571
00:30:01,440 --> 00:30:07,400
Speaker 1: like before we got her. I'm gonna hold them, Okay,

572
00:30:07,440 --> 00:30:12,320
Speaker 1: tell the story now. Um, when my family decided to

573
00:30:13,360 --> 00:30:19,680
Speaker 1: adopt rescue a dog, we went over the Bozeman Pass

574
00:30:20,440 --> 00:30:24,280
Speaker 1: to the nearby town of Livingston, Montana, the Stafford Animal Shelter,

575
00:30:24,400 --> 00:30:28,240
Speaker 1: lovely people. Um we went to actually go meet a

576
00:30:28,240 --> 00:30:34,560
Speaker 1: different dog, but Mango. When we met her, we couldn't

577
00:30:34,560 --> 00:30:38,200
Speaker 1: say no. After hearing her life story of growing up

578
00:30:38,240 --> 00:30:44,400
Speaker 1: stray on the Fort Peck Indian Reservation, having to you know,

579
00:30:44,520 --> 00:30:49,760
Speaker 1: fight for food and and love, we wanted to bring

580
00:30:49,800 --> 00:30:54,160
Speaker 1: her home a beau and uh have her be a

581
00:30:54,200 --> 00:30:59,440
Speaker 1: part of our family. Just take a moment. Just listen

582
00:30:59,440 --> 00:31:08,360
Speaker 1: to Sarah. Yeah, there I go. She's still alive. She's

583
00:31:08,360 --> 00:31:13,120
Speaker 1: not dead. Better, she's living a healthy she's only about

584
00:31:13,200 --> 00:31:17,600
Speaker 1: two and a half years a pre Mango. This is

585
00:31:17,640 --> 00:31:23,920
Speaker 1: this is this is dark all right. That's got the

586
00:31:24,000 --> 00:31:27,400
Speaker 1: ceremonials in the YouTube videos got ten well as a

587
00:31:27,480 --> 00:31:30,080
Speaker 1: hundred million views on that baby, and it's it's all

588
00:31:30,120 --> 00:31:33,160
Speaker 1: from podcasters who bring up bring up the song to

589
00:31:33,240 --> 00:31:36,080
Speaker 1: play people that are very sad and just want to

590
00:31:36,080 --> 00:31:38,120
Speaker 1: cry at home by themselves. Here's a good way to

591
00:31:38,120 --> 00:31:41,520
Speaker 1: be as active with THHC right in about the name Mango,

592
00:31:42,120 --> 00:31:43,960
Speaker 1: and tell me what you think, and tell me if

593
00:31:44,000 --> 00:31:46,600
Speaker 1: I'm being too mean to fill and because a lot

594
00:31:46,640 --> 00:31:48,000
Speaker 1: of you people think that I mean to fill and

595
00:31:48,040 --> 00:31:52,480
Speaker 1: it's not. It's not mean, it's just you know, opinionated. Yeah, sure,

596
00:31:52,480 --> 00:31:56,560
Speaker 1: I'm I'm totally fine with it. You're see. Yeah, there's

597
00:31:56,560 --> 00:32:01,160
Speaker 1: a sadness and he every night there's a sadness he feels.

598
00:32:02,400 --> 00:32:07,640
Speaker 1: It comes over for reparations. I'm taking this film, taking

599
00:32:07,680 --> 00:32:17,800
Speaker 1: this ashtray. Fine, fine, Mr, I'm leaving leaving with this

600
00:32:18,680 --> 00:32:22,400
Speaker 1: um anyway back to bird Dogs, do you think we

601
00:32:22,400 --> 00:32:25,400
Speaker 1: would ever get Mango on a hunt, she would have

602
00:32:25,440 --> 00:32:26,960
Speaker 1: the time of her life. It would just be it

603
00:32:27,000 --> 00:32:29,240
Speaker 1: would be a matter of getting her energy level she is.

604
00:32:29,320 --> 00:32:31,760
Speaker 1: She would be so wired, she would be It would

605
00:32:31,800 --> 00:32:33,560
Speaker 1: take some training, for sure, but she would love it.

606
00:32:33,640 --> 00:32:36,040
Speaker 1: What's her pre drive? Like? She like cats? Does she

607
00:32:36,120 --> 00:32:39,959
Speaker 1: like that? Like we have? We have cats in our

608
00:32:40,000 --> 00:32:42,040
Speaker 1: home as well. Is there any photos of her on

609
00:32:42,080 --> 00:32:48,120
Speaker 1: your Instagram? Uh? You know, I don't think so, which says,

610
00:32:49,200 --> 00:32:51,680
Speaker 1: I'm sure you do. Let me see. It might take

611
00:32:51,680 --> 00:32:53,440
Speaker 1: a while. How about you guys talk and I'll try

612
00:32:53,480 --> 00:32:58,320
Speaker 1: to find something picture Mango. Oh, we'll just do a interlude.

613
00:32:59,240 --> 00:33:01,240
Speaker 1: Then I would like to comment on how great of

614
00:33:01,280 --> 00:33:07,320
Speaker 1: an actor you are. I was crying. You were legitimately

615
00:33:05,960 --> 00:33:10,000
Speaker 1: that I was what what he was telling the manga store,

616
00:33:10,040 --> 00:33:13,840
Speaker 1: I was legit tearing up. I had to get into

617
00:33:13,920 --> 00:33:16,480
Speaker 1: like the why Mango, I gotta dig in there. You

618
00:33:16,520 --> 00:33:19,360
Speaker 1: should just head to Hollywood right now. I was really

619
00:33:20,240 --> 00:33:25,680
Speaker 1: a very good angle. They took him from above. But um,

620
00:33:25,720 --> 00:33:29,440
Speaker 1: but that's that's Mango. Mango. Let me help describe. I

621
00:33:30,160 --> 00:33:32,600
Speaker 1: need to find a cuter, a cuter picture, more adorable.

622
00:33:32,680 --> 00:33:34,800
Speaker 1: Yeah that's not I mean, she's frolicking. She looks at

623
00:33:34,800 --> 00:33:41,520
Speaker 1: this Spanish peak wilderness. She looks a little bit apprehensive. Uh.

624
00:33:41,880 --> 00:33:45,800
Speaker 1: She has like a kind of a short legs. Yeah,

625
00:33:45,880 --> 00:33:51,240
Speaker 1: a tale unimpressive tail. Jet black, yes, jet black like

626
00:33:51,280 --> 00:33:56,840
Speaker 1: the night wym picturing black quarky right now, I don't

627
00:33:56,840 --> 00:33:58,720
Speaker 1: see the picture right now, just like a short face

628
00:33:59,320 --> 00:34:02,240
Speaker 1: like a ding go. Okay, let me let me find act.

629
00:34:02,360 --> 00:34:07,160
Speaker 1: Dingo is is a good? That is good? That's my

630
00:34:07,240 --> 00:34:12,120
Speaker 1: family had Australian cattle dog. What do you think, Joe,

631
00:34:12,640 --> 00:34:15,080
Speaker 1: I think that that bird would flush a grouse? Or

632
00:34:15,120 --> 00:34:19,920
Speaker 1: that dog? Um? Well, that dog? Yeah, I think I

633
00:34:20,000 --> 00:34:22,920
Speaker 1: think she definitely flush a grouse, but just might be

634
00:34:22,920 --> 00:34:26,440
Speaker 1: a little too far off shot at it does? She does? Mango?

635
00:34:26,520 --> 00:34:29,879
Speaker 1: Listen to you, Phil, like if you would say, oh, yeah,

636
00:34:29,920 --> 00:34:32,479
Speaker 1: for sure, here we come. Yeah yeah, all right, good,

637
00:34:32,560 --> 00:34:35,080
Speaker 1: that's all you really need. Do you have any commands

638
00:34:35,080 --> 00:34:37,440
Speaker 1: that you give her? Not a whole lot, I mean,

639
00:34:37,520 --> 00:34:43,960
Speaker 1: just the basics. What the don't eat the garbage? Yes,

640
00:34:44,840 --> 00:34:48,600
Speaker 1: all right, Well we're gonna get off to do you

641
00:34:48,600 --> 00:34:50,439
Speaker 1: think we we covered off on bird dogs? We're gonna

642
00:34:50,440 --> 00:34:52,640
Speaker 1: get off to. Ben O Williams. Ben O Williams has

643
00:34:52,680 --> 00:34:57,160
Speaker 1: a great famous dog Winston that he he's wrote some

644
00:34:57,160 --> 00:34:59,200
Speaker 1: some pretty amazed. I was reading it last night. It's

645
00:34:59,200 --> 00:35:03,040
Speaker 1: a pretty amazing. It was about um Morgan. You're a

646
00:35:03,080 --> 00:35:05,719
Speaker 1: big fan and a featured bent on some some stuff.

647
00:35:05,800 --> 00:35:08,360
Speaker 1: Kind of describe what he means to the Upland community

648
00:35:08,440 --> 00:35:11,000
Speaker 1: before we get to him. Oh man, he is like

649
00:35:11,120 --> 00:35:15,879
Speaker 1: the like the grandfather of Upland, I guess you could

650
00:35:15,920 --> 00:35:18,400
Speaker 1: say of all things Upland. He's just like he's such

651
00:35:19,520 --> 00:35:22,320
Speaker 1: a kind soul, a great hunter. He's just like I

652
00:35:22,360 --> 00:35:25,319
Speaker 1: think he's been described as like the dog master of

653
00:35:25,440 --> 00:35:29,040
Speaker 1: Zen or something like that. Just he just enjoys every

654
00:35:29,080 --> 00:35:31,160
Speaker 1: aspect of life. And like I like his little motto

655
00:35:31,200 --> 00:35:32,879
Speaker 1: that he's gotten. He just wrote a book called Best

656
00:35:32,960 --> 00:35:35,399
Speaker 1: Day Yet, and that's like his everyday motto is best

657
00:35:35,480 --> 00:35:40,279
Speaker 1: day yet. Everything has cherished, everything is appreciated. Like this

658
00:35:40,320 --> 00:35:43,680
Speaker 1: is the guy that everybody wants for their grandfather sort

659
00:35:43,719 --> 00:35:47,479
Speaker 1: of guy. So I would agree, he's definitely agree. Amazing guy.

660
00:35:47,600 --> 00:35:50,440
Speaker 1: You hear you hear a guy like that. His reflections

661
00:35:50,480 --> 00:35:54,040
Speaker 1: on life and now, how big a role maybe I

662
00:35:54,040 --> 00:35:55,600
Speaker 1: think a little bit different than other folks, but how

663
00:35:55,600 --> 00:35:58,799
Speaker 1: big a role? You know, dogs specifically bird dogs and

664
00:35:58,880 --> 00:36:01,440
Speaker 1: up and hunting has been in this man's life. And

665
00:36:01,480 --> 00:36:03,680
Speaker 1: to see how good of a person and how well

666
00:36:03,760 --> 00:36:08,200
Speaker 1: rounded he is and well, you know, well spoken and intelligent,

667
00:36:08,360 --> 00:36:11,520
Speaker 1: and it makes you want to you know, dig into

668
00:36:11,560 --> 00:36:13,720
Speaker 1: that culture and like this this guy is the center

669
00:36:13,760 --> 00:36:16,560
Speaker 1: point of that culture. There's something to it because he

670
00:36:16,680 --> 00:36:19,880
Speaker 1: is a wonderful dude. I just I want to be

671
00:36:19,920 --> 00:36:21,720
Speaker 1: around him all the time and just be a sponge

672
00:36:21,800 --> 00:36:24,280
Speaker 1: and just try and absorb as much as I possibly

673
00:36:24,280 --> 00:36:28,920
Speaker 1: can from him. Yeah, I've got I've um. Often listeners

674
00:36:28,960 --> 00:36:31,200
Speaker 1: will write in that I like to interview old dudes

675
00:36:32,800 --> 00:36:35,000
Speaker 1: because I've I've We've had a lot of you know

676
00:36:35,400 --> 00:36:38,080
Speaker 1: a lot of legends. I feel like Jim pozzlwits on

677
00:36:38,160 --> 00:36:41,520
Speaker 1: there and and and others. Um. But I just I

678
00:36:41,600 --> 00:36:44,040
Speaker 1: just feel like when you get somebody like that, I

679
00:36:44,040 --> 00:36:46,239
Speaker 1: mean it may sound melodramatic, but like that, this is

680
00:36:46,280 --> 00:36:49,800
Speaker 1: a treasure. This dude is, you know, to to record

681
00:36:49,880 --> 00:36:53,920
Speaker 1: his thoughts on upland hunting. Um is something that that

682
00:36:53,960 --> 00:36:56,480
Speaker 1: we should really cherish because, um, he may not be

683
00:36:56,600 --> 00:36:58,560
Speaker 1: around that much longer. If you ask him, he'll probably

684
00:36:58,560 --> 00:37:01,719
Speaker 1: be around for another twenty years. Yeah, it's talking about

685
00:37:01,719 --> 00:37:03,960
Speaker 1: like his age. It was funny. I was listening yesterday,

686
00:37:04,200 --> 00:37:06,400
Speaker 1: like we were supposed to go like directly over to

687
00:37:06,480 --> 00:37:10,160
Speaker 1: Ben's after the after the hunt, but we uh, our

688
00:37:10,239 --> 00:37:12,520
Speaker 1: height got a little delayed to to like up and

689
00:37:12,560 --> 00:37:14,960
Speaker 1: down on all around chasing birds typical way that a

690
00:37:15,080 --> 00:37:18,560
Speaker 1: bird hunt goes. But Um, hearing from Ben just like

691
00:37:19,040 --> 00:37:21,560
Speaker 1: it's like, yeah, the afternoons really don't work for me.

692
00:37:21,640 --> 00:37:23,320
Speaker 1: You know, I'm I'm older. I just don't want to

693
00:37:23,320 --> 00:37:27,400
Speaker 1: talk to people in the afternoons. All right. I appreciate

694
00:37:27,480 --> 00:37:29,360
Speaker 1: that when you turn eighty, like you can just not

695
00:37:29,680 --> 00:37:31,759
Speaker 1: you know, you give a ship factor, can just just go,

696
00:37:31,960 --> 00:37:34,319
Speaker 1: can can decrease to whatever you'd like it to be,

697
00:37:34,400 --> 00:37:37,439
Speaker 1: like two thirty pm, it's cocktail or I'm turning off.

698
00:37:39,520 --> 00:37:42,600
Speaker 1: All right, Well we're gonna get to Ben. Um, thanks

699
00:37:42,640 --> 00:37:45,160
Speaker 1: for sharing Mango with this film. Yeah that was the highlight.

700
00:37:45,440 --> 00:37:47,800
Speaker 1: Yeah of course, Yeah, that's really it. You think Mango

701
00:37:47,840 --> 00:37:49,640
Speaker 1: would ever want to come and then sit in on

702
00:37:49,640 --> 00:37:52,799
Speaker 1: a podcast? Oh yeah. She wants nothing more than to

703
00:37:52,800 --> 00:37:56,160
Speaker 1: be around people and to please um. But she wants

704
00:37:56,200 --> 00:37:57,840
Speaker 1: sometimes she wants it too much and she can't control

705
00:37:57,880 --> 00:37:59,480
Speaker 1: herself and she has a breathing fit because she gets

706
00:37:59,520 --> 00:38:03,360
Speaker 1: too excited. All too excited. This is the kind of

707
00:38:03,480 --> 00:38:08,279
Speaker 1: energy that she has. Film before we go, Okay, here

708
00:38:08,280 --> 00:38:11,520
Speaker 1: we go, Here we go. Before we go, I would

709
00:38:11,560 --> 00:38:15,960
Speaker 1: like you to describe the first time that you saw man,

710
00:38:16,080 --> 00:38:17,440
Speaker 1: like the first time you looked in her eyes and

711
00:38:17,520 --> 00:38:23,320
Speaker 1: knew that she was yours. Okay, let's take a quick

712
00:38:34,080 --> 00:38:40,239
Speaker 1: We are actually visited the Stafford Animal Shelter to see

713
00:38:40,280 --> 00:38:46,759
Speaker 1: a different dog, Um, a little uh terrier that was

714
00:38:47,320 --> 00:38:54,520
Speaker 1: possibly left by a circus that ran through. But that

715
00:38:54,600 --> 00:38:57,399
Speaker 1: dog didn't really want anything to do with us. Yeah,

716
00:38:57,480 --> 00:39:02,480
Speaker 1: you're not a clan. But as we were watching this

717
00:39:02,520 --> 00:39:08,120
Speaker 1: other dog play, Mango joined the fray and she the

718
00:39:08,160 --> 00:39:12,719
Speaker 1: clouds split a little bit raised sunshine exactly. Thank you

719
00:39:14,160 --> 00:39:18,080
Speaker 1: Joe Joe for the commentary. Um, if you guys have

720
00:39:18,120 --> 00:39:24,120
Speaker 1: any more commentary, Dad, Mango um pranced over to us,

721
00:39:25,640 --> 00:39:32,480
Speaker 1: laid her lap, her head, laid her head in my lap, Um,

722
00:39:32,640 --> 00:39:38,239
Speaker 1: and much like Ben was tearing up several minutes ago,

723
00:39:38,840 --> 00:39:45,399
Speaker 1: I also, um had tears streaming down my face, those

724
00:39:45,440 --> 00:39:48,440
Speaker 1: big brown eyes looking up UM. That part may not

725
00:39:48,560 --> 00:39:52,120
Speaker 1: be true. Most of these details aren't true. Part about

726
00:39:52,120 --> 00:40:04,320
Speaker 1: the circumstance, That part is Uh. We brought her home, Um,

727
00:40:04,520 --> 00:40:14,920
Speaker 1: she's great. Really, wrap that one up. Alright, good job.

728
00:40:15,160 --> 00:40:20,719
Speaker 1: I want to know about this terrier now circus I

729
00:40:20,760 --> 00:40:23,239
Speaker 1: hope not. I feel bad leaving it. I would have

730
00:40:23,280 --> 00:40:25,240
Speaker 1: it like we have a bit of a budget for THHC.

731
00:40:25,480 --> 00:40:29,000
Speaker 1: We could get a dog, a circus dog, a circus dog.

732
00:40:29,520 --> 00:40:33,600
Speaker 1: When you get a THHC dog, new mascot. Huh, they

733
00:40:33,680 --> 00:40:37,320
Speaker 1: can get sponsored by something. I like dogs. Yeah, you

734
00:40:37,400 --> 00:40:40,480
Speaker 1: can name it white claw. That's a pretty good dug man.

735
00:40:40,560 --> 00:40:43,360
Speaker 1: That's actually a pretty We can go to a shelter

736
00:40:43,440 --> 00:40:47,000
Speaker 1: and find a white dog or a black dog with

737
00:40:47,040 --> 00:40:54,720
Speaker 1: a white paw. Mike, drop them out. I have forgot

738
00:40:54,760 --> 00:40:58,680
Speaker 1: to check the quality of this podcast. It's gone down there.

739
00:40:58,680 --> 00:41:00,920
Speaker 1: All right. We're gonna go to let me said Montana.

740
00:41:01,520 --> 00:41:03,840
Speaker 1: We're gonna check in with a true legend, somebody that

741
00:41:04,160 --> 00:41:06,080
Speaker 1: we are very lucky to know and have to sit

742
00:41:06,160 --> 00:41:10,920
Speaker 1: down with. His name is Ben L. Williams. Enjoyed. I

743
00:41:11,000 --> 00:41:15,640
Speaker 1: guess I grew up on an Alder road. Ben. How

744
00:41:15,680 --> 00:41:21,840
Speaker 1: are you? I'm doing great? Yeah, two bends. That's we

745
00:41:22,000 --> 00:41:24,799
Speaker 1: call it a fine name. Um, well, thanks for having

746
00:41:24,840 --> 00:41:27,359
Speaker 1: me in your home. I really appreciate you're having me here.

747
00:41:27,640 --> 00:41:30,680
Speaker 1: Oh good, I appreciate you coming and I always like

748
00:41:30,760 --> 00:41:33,880
Speaker 1: to visit with you guys. Yeah, well we've we've got

749
00:41:33,920 --> 00:41:35,600
Speaker 1: a lot to talk about, a lot, a lot to cover.

750
00:41:35,719 --> 00:41:40,840
Speaker 1: But I first like to have guests try to explain

751
00:41:40,840 --> 00:41:42,800
Speaker 1: their surroundings because I think it's good for the listener

752
00:41:42,800 --> 00:41:45,160
Speaker 1: to understand, like where we are and what well exactly

753
00:41:45,200 --> 00:41:48,840
Speaker 1: up to? And uh, I think for a writer who

754
00:41:48,880 --> 00:41:52,520
Speaker 1: focuses on bird, dogs and upland honey and shotguns, your

755
00:41:52,520 --> 00:41:55,759
Speaker 1: office is perfect. It's got just about everything it needs

756
00:41:55,760 --> 00:41:58,759
Speaker 1: to have. So describe people kind of your surroundings were

757
00:41:58,760 --> 00:42:02,160
Speaker 1: sitting in your office and and kind of give people

758
00:42:02,160 --> 00:42:06,719
Speaker 1: away of the land in here. Okay, Um, several years ago,

759
00:42:06,760 --> 00:42:10,200
Speaker 1: I used to have a bulletin board basically, uh, with

760
00:42:10,239 --> 00:42:15,799
Speaker 1: a lot of pictures and etcetera. So, but over the

761
00:42:15,880 --> 00:42:18,960
Speaker 1: years I got so crowded I decided take all those

762
00:42:18,960 --> 00:42:22,960
Speaker 1: photographs down and put up some of my paintings that

763
00:42:23,600 --> 00:42:30,160
Speaker 1: I received from friends and or bought in So, uh,

764
00:42:30,640 --> 00:42:35,640
Speaker 1: I'm kind of lacking on pictures, but um, I really

765
00:42:36,880 --> 00:42:42,000
Speaker 1: I really liked my I call this my office basically,

766
00:42:42,040 --> 00:42:46,120
Speaker 1: and and uh not only being a bird hunter, but

767
00:42:46,160 --> 00:42:52,799
Speaker 1: I'm also I'm very fascinated as a bird biologist, and

768
00:42:52,840 --> 00:42:55,440
Speaker 1: I'm I'm a field biologist, and I like to study

769
00:42:55,640 --> 00:43:01,520
Speaker 1: game birds. So to study game birds, basically the important

770
00:43:01,560 --> 00:43:05,200
Speaker 1: thing is to have a really a good library. And

771
00:43:05,239 --> 00:43:09,400
Speaker 1: if you look around here you can see I think possibly,

772
00:43:09,840 --> 00:43:13,520
Speaker 1: I'm not exactly sure, but I think I probably have

773
00:43:14,280 --> 00:43:18,640
Speaker 1: one of the largest libraries of upland game birds in America.

774
00:43:18,880 --> 00:43:20,600
Speaker 1: I'm on In fact, I'm I'm not sure of it.

775
00:43:21,200 --> 00:43:24,520
Speaker 1: I have I have documents said are these are? These

776
00:43:24,520 --> 00:43:28,880
Speaker 1: are thesis and papers written, and I have chest about

777
00:43:28,880 --> 00:43:37,880
Speaker 1: every single book on hunting birds and bird ecology, American

778
00:43:38,120 --> 00:43:42,880
Speaker 1: game bird shooting about George Bird Cornell up there, I see.

779
00:43:43,000 --> 00:43:50,640
Speaker 1: The oldest book I have is UH, written eighteen fifty three,

780
00:43:51,560 --> 00:43:53,440
Speaker 1: and I have a lot of them in the nineteen

781
00:43:53,600 --> 00:44:00,800
Speaker 1: ten I have UH. I have game management, Leah Poel's books,

782
00:44:01,040 --> 00:44:05,200
Speaker 1: his Round River Book. So I'm I'm a real I'm

783
00:44:05,239 --> 00:44:10,239
Speaker 1: a real student of of learning about game birds. That's

784
00:44:11,000 --> 00:44:16,439
Speaker 1: it's not just going out there and shooting birds. And

785
00:44:16,760 --> 00:44:19,240
Speaker 1: I always felt to be a good game bird hunter

786
00:44:20,040 --> 00:44:22,640
Speaker 1: you should have a bird dog. So that's why I

787
00:44:22,760 --> 00:44:29,400
Speaker 1: get very involved and with raising good bird dogs. And

788
00:44:29,440 --> 00:44:31,520
Speaker 1: there's there's a lot of we talk about writers. You

789
00:44:31,520 --> 00:44:35,400
Speaker 1: know you've written how many books? Dozens? Dozens. I have

790
00:44:35,520 --> 00:44:42,800
Speaker 1: written fifteen books and five of those are with other authors,

791
00:44:43,480 --> 00:44:47,720
Speaker 1: so and maybe sixty. I don't know, Like it doesn't

792
00:44:47,719 --> 00:44:51,360
Speaker 1: make any difference. Councils countless articles for Covey Rise, you've written,

793
00:44:51,400 --> 00:44:56,959
Speaker 1: I'm sure for Pheasants forever over the years. I point

794
00:44:57,040 --> 00:45:01,319
Speaker 1: Dog Journal. I wrote for my for them for thirty years.

795
00:45:01,320 --> 00:45:05,359
Speaker 1: In fact, I just retired writing from them this year

796
00:45:05,560 --> 00:45:09,920
Speaker 1: just um, uh, just because I thought that thirty years

797
00:45:09,960 --> 00:45:13,480
Speaker 1: was probably enough for that magazine. And and then I

798
00:45:13,600 --> 00:45:20,279
Speaker 1: worked for a gray sporting journal. I worked for Shooting Sportsman,

799
00:45:21,760 --> 00:45:29,920
Speaker 1: some other smaller magazines and uh I the only one

800
00:45:29,960 --> 00:45:33,439
Speaker 1: I write for right now full time is actually Cubby Rise.

801
00:45:34,320 --> 00:45:39,640
Speaker 1: And uh. I also have written a little bit for

802
00:45:40,200 --> 00:45:44,360
Speaker 1: Tyler Sharp for his for Monde as well. Yeah, lovely title.

803
00:45:44,560 --> 00:45:47,160
Speaker 1: Um there is. There's a lot of things, but I

804
00:45:47,160 --> 00:45:50,799
Speaker 1: think just in general to to kind of color what

805
00:45:50,880 --> 00:45:53,120
Speaker 1: you mean to the upland community. I mean, there are

806
00:45:53,200 --> 00:45:56,440
Speaker 1: we're talking before we hit record ruggers like Tom Kelly

807
00:45:56,719 --> 00:46:00,840
Speaker 1: in the Turkey Hunting World, Nash Buckingham and the Waterfowl World.

808
00:46:00,880 --> 00:46:05,319
Speaker 1: You have the likes of Robert Ruark and Hunting Africa. Um,

809
00:46:05,360 --> 00:46:08,560
Speaker 1: I would would easily place you within that, you know,

810
00:46:08,680 --> 00:46:11,840
Speaker 1: pantheon of of writers that are seminal to the pursuit,

811
00:46:12,360 --> 00:46:16,399
Speaker 1: you know, for you for for sporting dogs, for upland game,

812
00:46:16,880 --> 00:46:21,160
Speaker 1: and for shotgunning. Even so, um, you're you're right there

813
00:46:21,160 --> 00:46:24,359
Speaker 1: alongside of of the grades. I think it it just

814
00:46:24,400 --> 00:46:29,880
Speaker 1: shows a commitment to the culture. But I appreciate to

815
00:46:29,880 --> 00:46:31,960
Speaker 1: start out with a compliment to get your Really it's

816
00:46:31,960 --> 00:46:36,799
Speaker 1: a warm you up to get your going. But uh well,

817
00:46:37,560 --> 00:46:41,080
Speaker 1: probably when it comes to Hungarian partridge, I I'm the

818
00:46:41,080 --> 00:46:45,600
Speaker 1: only one that's every written in North America on Hungarian partridge.

819
00:46:45,600 --> 00:46:49,520
Speaker 1: There was another book written in England completely different than mine,

820
00:46:49,640 --> 00:46:56,360
Speaker 1: but since then I think, uh Givel Dean wrote a

821
00:46:56,440 --> 00:47:00,840
Speaker 1: kind of kind of a history of his philosophy of

822
00:47:00,840 --> 00:47:05,520
Speaker 1: of bird honey, but completely different than my My hunt

823
00:47:05,560 --> 00:47:09,360
Speaker 1: book is a good example is it's called Huns and

824
00:47:09,440 --> 00:47:14,040
Speaker 1: hunt Hunting. It's a hit, it's about their history, habits,

825
00:47:14,640 --> 00:47:17,759
Speaker 1: and it's a complete book on n hunting. If you

826
00:47:17,760 --> 00:47:21,040
Speaker 1: want to learn about hunt hunting, that is a book

827
00:47:22,560 --> 00:47:26,120
Speaker 1: you want to take with you because I put that

828
00:47:26,360 --> 00:47:32,560
Speaker 1: is fifty years of work of that and and your

829
00:47:32,560 --> 00:47:37,239
Speaker 1: writing career spans that long, right, spans fifty How many years? Well,

830
00:47:37,320 --> 00:47:40,920
Speaker 1: let's go back. I started basically hunting in for huns.

831
00:47:41,920 --> 00:47:44,239
Speaker 1: That's when I if you want to count that first

832
00:47:44,320 --> 00:47:49,600
Speaker 1: day in nineteen fifty five. So from nifty five to

833
00:47:49,719 --> 00:47:52,600
Speaker 1: now is it's a lot of years. We don't need

834
00:47:52,640 --> 00:47:56,040
Speaker 1: to count them. Where neither of us are math math majors. Um,

835
00:47:56,239 --> 00:47:59,800
Speaker 1: that's pretty close to sixties, so we'll call it sixty.

836
00:48:00,200 --> 00:48:03,560
Speaker 1: Get around. I think it's you know, and we again

837
00:48:03,600 --> 00:48:08,719
Speaker 1: talking before the podcast started, about why it is that

838
00:48:08,760 --> 00:48:13,759
Speaker 1: you found yourself, you know, so ingratiated, so enamored with

839
00:48:14,760 --> 00:48:19,080
Speaker 1: not only huns, but Brittany's and the type of hunting

840
00:48:19,080 --> 00:48:21,200
Speaker 1: that you like to do. And this isn't something that

841
00:48:21,239 --> 00:48:23,960
Speaker 1: you fell in love with yesterday. You've been doing it

842
00:48:24,440 --> 00:48:27,799
Speaker 1: for the better part of your entire life. UM, so

843
00:48:28,360 --> 00:48:30,600
Speaker 1: we should. I think I like to get to tell

844
00:48:30,760 --> 00:48:34,600
Speaker 1: those wise started at the very beginning kind of your

845
00:48:34,640 --> 00:48:38,440
Speaker 1: first introduction to bird hunting or upland hunting, or the

846
00:48:38,480 --> 00:48:40,960
Speaker 1: first time you saw it, the first time that um

847
00:48:41,320 --> 00:48:43,279
Speaker 1: kind of entered your mind is something you might want

848
00:48:43,280 --> 00:48:45,800
Speaker 1: to do. The first time, you know, in my mind

849
00:48:45,960 --> 00:48:49,560
Speaker 1: was when I was in second grade when I went

850
00:48:49,600 --> 00:48:54,880
Speaker 1: with my grandfather and uh, my mother let me skip

851
00:48:54,880 --> 00:48:59,560
Speaker 1: a day of school, and I was extremely fascinated with

852
00:48:59,760 --> 00:49:04,640
Speaker 1: be with him and actually going out and walking back

853
00:49:04,640 --> 00:49:09,000
Speaker 1: then an old railroad tracks looking for birds. And he

854
00:49:09,120 --> 00:49:14,280
Speaker 1: was originally from England, and he talked about the hunting

855
00:49:14,360 --> 00:49:19,479
Speaker 1: over there, and he really enjoyed hunting, and he would

856
00:49:19,520 --> 00:49:22,120
Speaker 1: often bring up and he called me his bird dog

857
00:49:22,440 --> 00:49:25,080
Speaker 1: because a little kid, and I'd go in there and

858
00:49:25,080 --> 00:49:28,280
Speaker 1: break brush for him, and he would he he would

859
00:49:28,320 --> 00:49:33,440
Speaker 1: talk about having a bird dog that find birds, and

860
00:49:33,560 --> 00:49:37,960
Speaker 1: that's fascinated me. A little later than a probably in

861
00:49:38,040 --> 00:49:44,080
Speaker 1: the junior high year, I happened to get up, uh

862
00:49:44,440 --> 00:49:47,680
Speaker 1: Springer spaniel or a family got a Springer Spaniel from

863
00:49:47,800 --> 00:49:54,560
Speaker 1: some people from Chicago that that the dog needed to

864
00:49:54,600 --> 00:49:57,560
Speaker 1: be in the country and leave. I lived in the country,

865
00:49:57,880 --> 00:50:04,439
Speaker 1: um and U, so we got the Springer Spaniel. Later

866
00:50:04,520 --> 00:50:08,000
Speaker 1: on I found out it was gunshy, but anyway, so

867
00:50:08,120 --> 00:50:13,360
Speaker 1: I would take I called him Mike the Dog, just

868
00:50:13,360 --> 00:50:15,480
Speaker 1: just because the fact when I was a little kid

869
00:50:15,520 --> 00:50:19,640
Speaker 1: in school and I could always tell my schoolmates that

870
00:50:19,719 --> 00:50:22,799
Speaker 1: I had a dog and and his name was Mike

871
00:50:22,880 --> 00:50:25,160
Speaker 1: the Dog. So that and I just called him Mike

872
00:50:25,200 --> 00:50:29,520
Speaker 1: the dog. And and I used to walk the railroad

873
00:50:29,560 --> 00:50:33,800
Speaker 1: text to school and he used to follow me. And

874
00:50:33,920 --> 00:50:37,960
Speaker 1: then when I got out of school, he would come

875
00:50:37,960 --> 00:50:39,920
Speaker 1: and meet me and would walk back and with the

876
00:50:40,000 --> 00:50:45,520
Speaker 1: hunt together. So and then I it was interesting because

877
00:50:45,560 --> 00:50:50,160
Speaker 1: I really him when I didn't know anything about dogs

878
00:50:50,280 --> 00:50:53,640
Speaker 1: or you know, just being a young person. And the

879
00:50:53,719 --> 00:50:57,680
Speaker 1: first time when the season finally opened, the first time

880
00:50:57,719 --> 00:51:02,160
Speaker 1: I went out and got him and went out, god,

881
00:51:02,200 --> 00:51:04,000
Speaker 1: I think it was a couple of peasants and pheasants

882
00:51:04,040 --> 00:51:06,879
Speaker 1: got up and a shot. He ran all the way

883
00:51:06,920 --> 00:51:11,799
Speaker 1: back home, and it really upset me, and and so

884
00:51:11,840 --> 00:51:16,160
Speaker 1: I went all the way back home and and he

885
00:51:16,280 --> 00:51:18,279
Speaker 1: was happy to see me, but I knew that he

886
00:51:18,640 --> 00:51:22,040
Speaker 1: was really scared of the gun. So but it took

887
00:51:22,040 --> 00:51:23,799
Speaker 1: about a year to work it out, and I just

888
00:51:23,840 --> 00:51:27,080
Speaker 1: would go out and I would never shoot close to him,

889
00:51:27,160 --> 00:51:32,120
Speaker 1: and finally we would kind of only run halfway home

890
00:51:32,320 --> 00:51:35,280
Speaker 1: and then come back. Then we got closer and closer.

891
00:51:36,120 --> 00:51:41,000
Speaker 1: So we that that particular bond of having a bird dog,

892
00:51:41,120 --> 00:51:48,800
Speaker 1: I think, and chasing birds, especially we as a pheasant.

893
00:51:48,840 --> 00:51:55,799
Speaker 1: But but but quail also I think that really probably

894
00:51:57,560 --> 00:52:00,640
Speaker 1: it was that was a key factor that I got

895
00:52:00,719 --> 00:52:05,440
Speaker 1: so in loud with birds and bird dogs. And right

896
00:52:05,480 --> 00:52:10,359
Speaker 1: after that, just after high school, I just was right

897
00:52:10,360 --> 00:52:12,640
Speaker 1: into the service four years and just as soon as

898
00:52:12,680 --> 00:52:16,400
Speaker 1: I got out, and like I said, I went to

899
00:52:17,560 --> 00:52:21,239
Speaker 1: I went to n YU for a year and then

900
00:52:21,280 --> 00:52:24,400
Speaker 1: move back to Illinois. Would go to Northern and the

901
00:52:24,480 --> 00:52:26,960
Speaker 1: first thing I want to do is get a bird

902
00:52:27,000 --> 00:52:29,600
Speaker 1: dog and hunt. So that's kind of how And it's

903
00:52:29,640 --> 00:52:32,680
Speaker 1: funny with bird dogs we're talking about like what hunting

904
00:52:32,680 --> 00:52:36,720
Speaker 1: over a dog, you know, whether water fowler, upland or whatever,

905
00:52:36,760 --> 00:52:40,440
Speaker 1: squirrels doesn't really matter. What that adds the hunting experience?

906
00:52:40,520 --> 00:52:43,360
Speaker 1: Like what you get to not only have your own experience,

907
00:52:43,360 --> 00:52:46,080
Speaker 1: but you get the you know, one you're training the dog,

908
00:52:46,160 --> 00:52:49,520
Speaker 1: you're working with the dog. What what does hunting over

909
00:52:49,560 --> 00:52:51,479
Speaker 1: a dog add to the experience? I mean, he said,

910
00:52:51,520 --> 00:52:54,240
Speaker 1: that's what really, that's what really connected you to hunting.

911
00:52:54,239 --> 00:52:58,640
Speaker 1: But like, what do you how would you explain that to? Um? Well,

912
00:52:58,680 --> 00:53:01,880
Speaker 1: first off, I don't think I would ever hunt without

913
00:53:01,880 --> 00:53:07,040
Speaker 1: a dog. I mean, it was just it's that simple. Um,

914
00:53:07,680 --> 00:53:12,560
Speaker 1: I think years ago I used to hunt what waterfowl

915
00:53:12,600 --> 00:53:16,360
Speaker 1: a little bit jump shooting a waterfowl, but still to

916
00:53:16,480 --> 00:53:19,120
Speaker 1: have a water dog or a duck dog. It was

917
00:53:19,239 --> 00:53:23,360
Speaker 1: very important to me, and I must say that I

918
00:53:23,360 --> 00:53:26,880
Speaker 1: wouldn't hunt birds if if I didn't have dogs. And

919
00:53:26,960 --> 00:53:31,439
Speaker 1: an even that my age age right now is when

920
00:53:31,440 --> 00:53:35,319
Speaker 1: I first started shooting and killing birds was very was

921
00:53:36,040 --> 00:53:41,200
Speaker 1: very important, like all of us young folks do. That's

922
00:53:41,200 --> 00:53:45,200
Speaker 1: pretty natural. But I think eventually you're finding the tour

923
00:53:45,320 --> 00:53:48,839
Speaker 1: and the killing of the bird is very not very

924
00:53:48,880 --> 00:53:53,719
Speaker 1: important anymore. In fact, I don't even like to kill

925
00:53:53,800 --> 00:53:57,440
Speaker 1: birds anymore. I just that's a that's an interesting point.

926
00:53:57,560 --> 00:54:00,000
Speaker 1: I've I've talked to a lot of folks that are

927
00:54:01,280 --> 00:54:03,200
Speaker 1: have been doing I have been hunting for a lot

928
00:54:03,239 --> 00:54:07,360
Speaker 1: of years, and it's not uncommon to have that sentiment

929
00:54:07,480 --> 00:54:10,080
Speaker 1: where you're you've hunted, you've kind of mastered the craft

930
00:54:10,120 --> 00:54:12,320
Speaker 1: in a way, or mastered as much as you believe

931
00:54:12,360 --> 00:54:15,680
Speaker 1: that you can, and then the killing becomes, at some

932
00:54:15,719 --> 00:54:20,120
Speaker 1: point in your life a different thing. In fact, I'm

933
00:54:20,160 --> 00:54:23,240
Speaker 1: even I've even cutting the point pot bout the last

934
00:54:23,280 --> 00:54:26,960
Speaker 1: ten fifty years. I'm even a little squeamish about killing

935
00:54:26,960 --> 00:54:29,120
Speaker 1: a bird. To be honest with you, that do you

936
00:54:29,160 --> 00:54:31,279
Speaker 1: even think, like if you would talk to your third

937
00:54:31,360 --> 00:54:34,320
Speaker 1: year old self that you could explain that concept to

938
00:54:34,320 --> 00:54:36,520
Speaker 1: to that thirty three year old or thirty five year

939
00:54:36,600 --> 00:54:39,000
Speaker 1: old guy you said you he told me before we

940
00:54:39,080 --> 00:54:41,360
Speaker 1: hit record that you were hunting every single day of

941
00:54:41,360 --> 00:54:44,320
Speaker 1: the season for huns when you first moved out west.

942
00:54:44,760 --> 00:54:47,040
Speaker 1: Do you think you could talk to that that guy

943
00:54:47,080 --> 00:54:50,279
Speaker 1: and explained to him where you are now in life? Oh?

944
00:54:50,360 --> 00:54:52,840
Speaker 1: I think so. I think. Uh. I think when you

945
00:54:53,000 --> 00:54:55,800
Speaker 1: hunt a tremendous amount of time, like I have and

946
00:54:56,640 --> 00:55:00,839
Speaker 1: even even written a lot about it, I be there

947
00:55:00,880 --> 00:55:04,920
Speaker 1: comes a time when the actually killing of the bird,

948
00:55:05,880 --> 00:55:11,640
Speaker 1: it becomes less and less important, and the most important

949
00:55:11,640 --> 00:55:16,600
Speaker 1: thing is watching the dogs point, seeing the dogs work,

950
00:55:17,440 --> 00:55:20,480
Speaker 1: and then having the experience of the flush. And it's

951
00:55:20,520 --> 00:55:26,880
Speaker 1: really um I would honestly say that there many many times,

952
00:55:26,920 --> 00:55:30,040
Speaker 1: in fact, more times now than not. Is I just

953
00:55:30,200 --> 00:55:34,959
Speaker 1: raised the gun up and just say bang, you're dead.

954
00:55:35,360 --> 00:55:38,200
Speaker 1: I guess say bang you're dead. Did they fly away?

955
00:55:37,680 --> 00:55:42,600
Speaker 1: And they call that counting coup and the it's own cultures? Yeah,

956
00:55:42,760 --> 00:55:45,399
Speaker 1: that there was another. Folks that listen to the show,

957
00:55:45,640 --> 00:55:48,600
Speaker 1: we'll hopefully know that we had a gentleman named Wyman

958
00:55:48,640 --> 00:55:52,279
Speaker 1: menser On from He lives in Benjamin, Texas and he's

959
00:55:52,320 --> 00:55:55,960
Speaker 1: a famed writer on coyotes and kirite ecology, and he's

960
00:55:55,960 --> 00:56:00,160
Speaker 1: a photographer. Um excribed described to me the same him

961
00:56:00,280 --> 00:56:03,360
Speaker 1: kind of idea when he got into his seventies, he

962
00:56:03,400 --> 00:56:08,200
Speaker 1: started taking pictures um instead of killing and and it's

963
00:56:08,239 --> 00:56:10,879
Speaker 1: a it's a common theme that I've found. Well, that's

964
00:56:10,920 --> 00:56:13,800
Speaker 1: exactly what I did. I mean, I just we're talking about.

965
00:56:14,320 --> 00:56:17,399
Speaker 1: The year I retired was eighty six, and I did.

966
00:56:17,760 --> 00:56:19,520
Speaker 1: I shot a lot of game birds. I'm not going

967
00:56:19,600 --> 00:56:23,800
Speaker 1: to mention how many, but uh, more than my share.

968
00:56:24,040 --> 00:56:28,480
Speaker 1: And I honest, they say. And the next year I

969
00:56:28,520 --> 00:56:30,680
Speaker 1: carried the camera. I think I only wound up that

970
00:56:30,800 --> 00:56:39,320
Speaker 1: year shoot him sixteen huns. And uh. I started photographing

971
00:56:40,320 --> 00:56:44,239
Speaker 1: when we had slides and he had a roll of

972
00:56:44,360 --> 00:56:47,600
Speaker 1: thirty six, and you had to be very careful what

973
00:56:47,640 --> 00:56:52,600
Speaker 1: we're doing, Okay. In other words, there were times and

974
00:56:52,800 --> 00:56:56,000
Speaker 1: I always had night cons and I like big fast cameras,

975
00:56:56,040 --> 00:57:01,120
Speaker 1: the fastest I could get. And when you had a

976
00:57:01,200 --> 00:57:04,680
Speaker 1: road of thirty six, you have to be very careful

977
00:57:04,719 --> 00:57:07,440
Speaker 1: when you gotta rise of birds because you didn't want

978
00:57:07,440 --> 00:57:09,840
Speaker 1: to run out with the best shots and so forth.

979
00:57:09,920 --> 00:57:13,920
Speaker 1: So I was not conservative, but I was very aware

980
00:57:13,960 --> 00:57:17,919
Speaker 1: of that and and my files right now, I can't

981
00:57:17,920 --> 00:57:22,400
Speaker 1: tell you exactly, but I have fairly close to fifty

982
00:57:22,880 --> 00:57:26,760
Speaker 1: slides and I have fileousand files kept. The nice thing

983
00:57:26,800 --> 00:57:31,000
Speaker 1: about it is I can I can still use them.

984
00:57:31,160 --> 00:57:39,320
Speaker 1: In fact, this this that cover right there is my photograph.

985
00:57:39,560 --> 00:57:44,080
Speaker 1: So we're looking at the Pheasants Forever cover as a Yeah,

986
00:57:43,920 --> 00:57:47,920
Speaker 1: had Bob White do the cover, uh to the painting

987
00:57:48,800 --> 00:57:52,480
Speaker 1: and that's uh that would this was taken in I

988
00:57:52,640 --> 00:57:58,160
Speaker 1: think in about eight seven eight. I'm not sure. I

989
00:57:58,200 --> 00:58:03,200
Speaker 1: would have to look it up. I could um. One

990
00:58:03,600 --> 00:58:06,360
Speaker 1: one thing about the photography I mentioned is that it

991
00:58:07,040 --> 00:58:09,960
Speaker 1: kind of replaces a gun. It's a it's kind of

992
00:58:09,960 --> 00:58:12,760
Speaker 1: a neat thing to be able to come back and

993
00:58:12,840 --> 00:58:16,200
Speaker 1: take your slides and look at them all and you know,

994
00:58:16,600 --> 00:58:18,919
Speaker 1: but using slides back there was a lot of work

995
00:58:19,360 --> 00:58:21,840
Speaker 1: because you have to send him in. You gotta wait

996
00:58:21,840 --> 00:58:23,439
Speaker 1: for him, you gotta put him on a light table,

997
00:58:23,480 --> 00:58:26,080
Speaker 1: you gotta look at him all, start throwing them away

998
00:58:26,160 --> 00:58:27,800
Speaker 1: when you finally found the good one. It's quite the

999
00:58:27,840 --> 00:58:33,240
Speaker 1: reward that's most is a lot easier nowadays. And I

1000
00:58:34,240 --> 00:58:37,720
Speaker 1: and it has only been I can't remember now, maybe

1001
00:58:38,480 --> 00:58:42,280
Speaker 1: ten years at the most, when when digital first came out.

1002
00:58:42,320 --> 00:58:44,920
Speaker 1: I didn't want anything to do with it basically, and

1003
00:58:45,520 --> 00:58:50,160
Speaker 1: it was new then, and I got that nice slide equipment.

1004
00:58:50,160 --> 00:58:54,160
Speaker 1: I got two big nikons and big lenses and and

1005
00:58:54,400 --> 00:59:01,360
Speaker 1: uh slides or digital photography. But I did well. But

1006
00:59:01,360 --> 00:59:05,600
Speaker 1: but I've never done it like I did with slides. Yeah,

1007
00:59:05,680 --> 00:59:08,080
Speaker 1: well that goes to you know, what we are and

1008
00:59:08,120 --> 00:59:10,040
Speaker 1: a lot of things we were talking about earlier again

1009
00:59:10,080 --> 00:59:13,600
Speaker 1: that you've seen, you've pioneered a few things here in

1010
00:59:13,600 --> 00:59:17,240
Speaker 1: the West um and then you've seen, you know, five decades,

1011
00:59:17,280 --> 00:59:21,080
Speaker 1: six decades of change from when you were said you

1012
00:59:21,120 --> 00:59:23,120
Speaker 1: were one of the first people in this we're here

1013
00:59:23,120 --> 00:59:25,800
Speaker 1: in the Shields Valley and Levi since Montana. You were

1014
00:59:25,840 --> 00:59:28,520
Speaker 1: one of the first folks to even desire to hunt

1015
00:59:29,240 --> 00:59:32,360
Speaker 1: huns in this in this valley, or even to bring

1016
00:59:32,400 --> 00:59:35,720
Speaker 1: a Brittany over here. There was nobody. There was absolutely

1017
00:59:35,840 --> 00:59:38,880
Speaker 1: nobody when I arrived. Yeah, what year is it that

1018
00:59:38,920 --> 00:59:43,200
Speaker 1: you arrived? What do we say? I think I started

1019
00:59:43,240 --> 00:59:47,280
Speaker 1: hunting in sixty two. Nobody had a bird dug. They

1020
00:59:47,320 --> 00:59:52,440
Speaker 1: had they had duck dogs, labs and so for nobody

1021
00:59:52,480 --> 00:59:57,160
Speaker 1: even heard of pointing dogs. And where I was hunting,

1022
00:59:58,680 --> 01:00:02,080
Speaker 1: and back in those days. Yep, the land wasn't posted.

1023
01:00:02,640 --> 01:00:06,040
Speaker 1: You could hunt, so I would die a little Volkswagen.

1024
01:00:06,080 --> 01:00:08,560
Speaker 1: Then I'd take my Volkswagen actural school and put my

1025
01:00:08,640 --> 01:00:11,160
Speaker 1: three dogs, loaped them up and would take off and hunt.

1026
01:00:11,960 --> 01:00:16,200
Speaker 1: And I'd go up to Shields, Nike and hunters any

1027
01:00:16,200 --> 01:00:19,479
Speaker 1: place I wanted. And then it kind of the word

1028
01:00:19,560 --> 01:00:23,080
Speaker 1: kind of got around it. There was just crazy school

1029
01:00:23,120 --> 01:00:28,080
Speaker 1: teacher with these fuzzy dogs and there's little blue Volkswagon

1030
01:00:28,400 --> 01:00:34,400
Speaker 1: chasing these impossible birds. And you you there's a lot

1031
01:00:34,440 --> 01:00:36,120
Speaker 1: of things that you did in that in those years

1032
01:00:36,120 --> 01:00:39,040
Speaker 1: that were very unique for this this part of the world,

1033
01:00:40,200 --> 01:00:45,080
Speaker 1: but huns being maybe the most unique. Um. You you

1034
01:00:45,120 --> 01:00:47,200
Speaker 1: were just telling me a story about one of the

1035
01:00:47,280 --> 01:00:49,800
Speaker 1: local game wardens who had never even really sold a

1036
01:00:49,880 --> 01:00:52,920
Speaker 1: license to anybody for for bird hunting, and he was

1037
01:00:53,000 --> 01:00:55,600
Speaker 1: he was dumbfounded that you would even that you didn't

1038
01:00:55,600 --> 01:00:58,000
Speaker 1: want a big game license or you didn't want to

1039
01:00:58,200 --> 01:01:00,880
Speaker 1: you didn't want to pay for the big game tag. Yeah,

1040
01:01:01,000 --> 01:01:02,920
Speaker 1: so did you at the time, did you feel like

1041
01:01:03,560 --> 01:01:05,560
Speaker 1: a pioneer? You're just doing something that you wanted to.

1042
01:01:06,440 --> 01:01:08,760
Speaker 1: I think that's a good word, pioneer, but I never

1043
01:01:09,000 --> 01:01:14,040
Speaker 1: thought of it that way. Uh. The other thing that

1044
01:01:14,040 --> 01:01:17,240
Speaker 1: that that the other thing that may really contributed to

1045
01:01:18,360 --> 01:01:22,200
Speaker 1: my hunting of Hans is I used to love to walk,

1046
01:01:22,920 --> 01:01:27,880
Speaker 1: and I was very physical and walking. And once I

1047
01:01:27,920 --> 01:01:33,080
Speaker 1: started hunting those those huns, my dogs, my dogs did

1048
01:01:33,160 --> 01:01:35,880
Speaker 1: not range out a lot. I was. I was so

1049
01:01:36,000 --> 01:01:39,480
Speaker 1: used to hunting the little the little amount of time

1050
01:01:39,520 --> 01:01:43,560
Speaker 1: I had him to hunt in very close. Then I

1051
01:01:43,560 --> 01:01:48,880
Speaker 1: started to study hans and worked them and found out

1052
01:01:48,920 --> 01:01:53,160
Speaker 1: that we got to cover country in big country. And

1053
01:01:53,200 --> 01:01:56,280
Speaker 1: then when I first started, I was just hunting agricultural country.

1054
01:01:56,400 --> 01:02:00,280
Speaker 1: Then I found out basically that when I was in

1055
01:02:00,800 --> 01:02:04,960
Speaker 1: prairie country, it was just as good. And I was told, what,

1056
01:02:05,200 --> 01:02:09,760
Speaker 1: they don't occupy prairie country, and I proved them completely wrong.

1057
01:02:09,880 --> 01:02:11,880
Speaker 1: So the questions you were being asked, why would you

1058
01:02:11,920 --> 01:02:14,120
Speaker 1: hunt these things and they don't live there, And then

1059
01:02:14,160 --> 01:02:16,640
Speaker 1: you're out there every single day of the season, you know,

1060
01:02:16,680 --> 01:02:19,400
Speaker 1: all the any rancher I would talk and I'd stop

1061
01:02:19,480 --> 01:02:22,400
Speaker 1: in and say, you know, I want a fellow. I

1062
01:02:22,440 --> 01:02:25,640
Speaker 1: stopped in and said, like to hunt those and he's

1063
01:02:25,760 --> 01:02:29,040
Speaker 1: I said, Hi, he's, oh, I've never heard these. He said,

1064
01:02:29,040 --> 01:02:33,440
Speaker 1: there's some little chickens out there. He said, Is that

1065
01:02:33,480 --> 01:02:36,400
Speaker 1: what you're talking about? I said, yeah, he said, some

1066
01:02:36,440 --> 01:02:38,760
Speaker 1: big chickens out there, some little chickens. He was talking

1067
01:02:38,760 --> 01:02:42,080
Speaker 1: about huns and sharp tails. He said, nobody hunts him

1068
01:02:42,720 --> 01:02:47,040
Speaker 1: big chickens and little chickens. You, he said, have at it.

1069
01:02:47,120 --> 01:02:50,720
Speaker 1: He said, lots of lot Did you had lots of

1070
01:02:51,680 --> 01:02:54,840
Speaker 1: did you when you first started? Did you did you think,

1071
01:02:55,800 --> 01:02:58,520
Speaker 1: do you have goals to hunt every day of the season,

1072
01:02:58,600 --> 01:03:01,640
Speaker 1: or did you have goals to to raise as many

1073
01:03:01,640 --> 01:03:03,800
Speaker 1: Brittany's and breeds as Brittanys as you could? Or do

1074
01:03:03,880 --> 01:03:08,320
Speaker 1: those things develop over time? Yeah? I think I had

1075
01:03:08,360 --> 01:03:12,640
Speaker 1: an agenda. I think I got I think I think

1076
01:03:12,680 --> 01:03:16,600
Speaker 1: when I started, I, uh my first couple of years

1077
01:03:16,600 --> 01:03:20,600
Speaker 1: of hunting hunts, I never thought I would basically really

1078
01:03:21,120 --> 01:03:25,200
Speaker 1: develop a real desire to hunt them. And because I

1079
01:03:25,320 --> 01:03:27,240
Speaker 1: back then I used to win the pheasants season, I

1080
01:03:27,240 --> 01:03:32,680
Speaker 1: went hunt pheasants too, But over the years, I I

1081
01:03:32,720 --> 01:03:36,320
Speaker 1: didn't want to hunt pheasants anymore. And basically and I loved,

1082
01:03:36,360 --> 01:03:38,880
Speaker 1: I love to run the dogs on stage grouse. And

1083
01:03:39,400 --> 01:03:42,440
Speaker 1: when I was first here, their stage grouse were everywhere

1084
01:03:43,880 --> 01:03:50,160
Speaker 1: and we would shoot a few, uh we call them

1085
01:03:50,360 --> 01:03:54,760
Speaker 1: purye bombers. And that's and that's what they were. They

1086
01:03:54,760 --> 01:03:58,240
Speaker 1: were wonderful birds and and in sharp tales. Back then

1087
01:03:58,560 --> 01:04:01,880
Speaker 1: when I first started hunting in they're what they're basically

1088
01:04:02,000 --> 01:04:05,200
Speaker 1: was not as many sharp tails. I think sharp tails

1089
01:04:05,240 --> 01:04:12,280
Speaker 1: actually over the years of the population is expanded. Yeah, well,

1090
01:04:12,320 --> 01:04:13,960
Speaker 1: it strikes me that we're talking about hans and we're

1091
01:04:13,960 --> 01:04:17,080
Speaker 1: not really explaining for for folks that have never hunted

1092
01:04:17,120 --> 01:04:20,840
Speaker 1: them or seen them. This take folks through from even

1093
01:04:20,840 --> 01:04:24,360
Speaker 1: from an ecologist or biology standpoint, like take people through

1094
01:04:24,400 --> 01:04:28,400
Speaker 1: what a hunt is, where it lives. Kind of give

1095
01:04:28,440 --> 01:04:31,120
Speaker 1: people the rundown of that bird, because they're an interesting bird,

1096
01:04:31,120 --> 01:04:33,720
Speaker 1: even if they are a little chicken. A lot of

1097
01:04:33,720 --> 01:04:38,840
Speaker 1: people know about Bob white quail, and basically I I

1098
01:04:38,920 --> 01:04:42,360
Speaker 1: always kind of thought him as nothing but big Bob

1099
01:04:42,400 --> 01:04:48,720
Speaker 1: white quail that had there their range about five times

1100
01:04:48,920 --> 01:04:54,880
Speaker 1: bigger or more than Bob whites. So the first thing,

1101
01:04:55,160 --> 01:05:01,880
Speaker 1: the first thing I wanted to do learn they're habits

1102
01:05:01,920 --> 01:05:06,520
Speaker 1: in habitat, which is very important. Habits came first, habitat

1103
01:05:06,640 --> 01:05:12,680
Speaker 1: came second. And to learn that you didn't get that

1104
01:05:12,720 --> 01:05:16,080
Speaker 1: out of a book was because nobody had written about him, basically,

1105
01:05:17,040 --> 01:05:19,360
Speaker 1: so I had to go out and be a field

1106
01:05:19,360 --> 01:05:23,600
Speaker 1: biologists and learned one thing I did. It was like

1107
01:05:24,720 --> 01:05:28,800
Speaker 1: kept a diary couple of log marked them down, marked

1108
01:05:28,800 --> 01:05:33,200
Speaker 1: every covey I ever found. After after a few years

1109
01:05:33,200 --> 01:05:38,160
Speaker 1: of hunting them, and later on and mark the covey's

1110
01:05:38,680 --> 01:05:43,440
Speaker 1: named the coveys or and I named that in my book.

1111
01:05:43,480 --> 01:05:47,600
Speaker 1: I just in the article I just wrote I one

1112
01:05:47,680 --> 01:05:50,240
Speaker 1: that one. I still call him the same name as

1113
01:05:50,280 --> 01:05:56,080
Speaker 1: called the the Burnt Tree covey. I've handed the Burnt

1114
01:05:56,080 --> 01:06:02,720
Speaker 1: Tree cubby for almost forty years, um, and I name him.

1115
01:06:02,760 --> 01:06:07,880
Speaker 1: I main so any time I find a new covey

1116
01:06:07,880 --> 01:06:11,919
Speaker 1: of hans on a particular location, I would always look

1117
01:06:11,920 --> 01:06:17,560
Speaker 1: around and make a note a piece of landmark that

1118
01:06:17,600 --> 01:06:22,480
Speaker 1: would associate with that covey, like the the waterfall covey.

1119
01:06:22,560 --> 01:06:26,360
Speaker 1: And just named a few of them, you know, learned

1120
01:06:26,400 --> 01:06:29,920
Speaker 1: those covees of where they were. I would go back

1121
01:06:30,480 --> 01:06:36,960
Speaker 1: and then figure out their range. And there was one time.

1122
01:06:37,800 --> 01:06:39,760
Speaker 1: Most of the times when you find a covey, I

1123
01:06:39,880 --> 01:06:43,000
Speaker 1: used to pursue them. I mean you have to, you

1124
01:06:43,080 --> 01:06:47,600
Speaker 1: have to, you have to be a real foot soldier.

1125
01:06:49,520 --> 01:06:54,400
Speaker 1: And uh, most of the times I would get a

1126
01:06:54,440 --> 01:06:59,720
Speaker 1: flush marked them best I could. And you always wanted.

1127
01:07:00,240 --> 01:07:03,360
Speaker 1: You always want to watch the last bird or the sleeper,

1128
01:07:03,880 --> 01:07:06,560
Speaker 1: which I called the last if a cuvey gets up

1129
01:07:06,600 --> 01:07:09,960
Speaker 1: and in a single gets up, but watch that bird

1130
01:07:10,720 --> 01:07:17,760
Speaker 1: because just like just like a kid in the gymnasium,

1131
01:07:17,800 --> 01:07:22,280
Speaker 1: the slowest kids always going to cut the corners. Okay,

1132
01:07:22,640 --> 01:07:27,920
Speaker 1: it's the same way. Was a corner cutter. But he

1133
01:07:27,920 --> 01:07:29,760
Speaker 1: would do is he had watched the covey and then

1134
01:07:29,800 --> 01:07:32,760
Speaker 1: he had cut the quarter, and you you knew exactly

1135
01:07:32,840 --> 01:07:34,680
Speaker 1: there they were going to make hook the right or

1136
01:07:34,760 --> 01:07:40,720
Speaker 1: left at So then I would I got so the

1137
01:07:41,560 --> 01:07:47,960
Speaker 1: point that I could basically I could basically pursue a

1138
01:07:48,120 --> 01:07:51,040
Speaker 1: single cuvey huns and jumped him four or five times.

1139
01:07:52,600 --> 01:07:56,040
Speaker 1: And there was one time I had this sign my

1140
01:07:56,160 --> 01:08:01,600
Speaker 1: in my journal. There was one time I I had

1141
01:08:01,600 --> 01:08:08,000
Speaker 1: my dogs point and flushed a covey the same covey.

1142
01:08:08,120 --> 01:08:12,920
Speaker 1: Eleven jumps. Took me three hours and never cut a feather,

1143
01:08:14,200 --> 01:08:16,320
Speaker 1: never cut a feather, never got close enough to get

1144
01:08:16,400 --> 01:08:20,160
Speaker 1: a name. That covey an important covey to name. I

1145
01:08:20,200 --> 01:08:23,000
Speaker 1: do that. How do you stick with a covey like that?

1146
01:08:23,040 --> 01:08:25,479
Speaker 1: Over forty years, even as I mean over forty years

1147
01:08:25,479 --> 01:08:29,160
Speaker 1: of landscape changes, the habitat the landowners. All these things

1148
01:08:29,240 --> 01:08:33,320
Speaker 1: change and you're still you know with that same covey

1149
01:08:33,439 --> 01:08:38,680
Speaker 1: of of huns over forty years, that that location of

1150
01:08:38,720 --> 01:08:42,920
Speaker 1: Cuvey's pretty much. In fact, it's interesting one of my

1151
01:08:43,000 --> 01:08:48,720
Speaker 1: marked cuvees. I know, and I get a point. I

1152
01:08:48,800 --> 01:08:52,320
Speaker 1: know where they're going to fly before they do. I

1153
01:08:52,400 --> 01:08:56,040
Speaker 1: know the direction. And if I'm younger, if I'm with

1154
01:08:56,160 --> 01:09:00,080
Speaker 1: another hunter, I could always make myself get in a

1155
01:09:00,160 --> 01:09:04,599
Speaker 1: position that I had the advantage. You look over there,

1156
01:09:04,680 --> 01:09:06,559
Speaker 1: my dad used to that to be growing up, look

1157
01:09:06,600 --> 01:09:10,880
Speaker 1: over there and over here, like and hans are hans

1158
01:09:10,920 --> 01:09:13,360
Speaker 1: are runners too, and people were so a sharp tail,

1159
01:09:13,439 --> 01:09:16,920
Speaker 1: but all game groups sore blue grouse by way much

1160
01:09:16,960 --> 01:09:18,920
Speaker 1: so I got a video of a blue grouse on

1161
01:09:18,960 --> 01:09:23,639
Speaker 1: Sunday that just you tell me quo babawe quailor too.

1162
01:09:23,640 --> 01:09:29,280
Speaker 1: And so when hans, hans are just like sharp tails

1163
01:09:29,400 --> 01:09:35,760
Speaker 1: and sage grouse, prairie game birds all stay together and

1164
01:09:35,880 --> 01:09:39,960
Speaker 1: kind of running with a pattern. But if you keep

1165
01:09:40,040 --> 01:09:43,960
Speaker 1: pursuing them and they keep running, the dogs point and

1166
01:09:44,000 --> 01:09:46,519
Speaker 1: break and point and break, and you have to you can't.

1167
01:09:47,280 --> 01:09:49,599
Speaker 1: If you have a dog steady to wing and shot,

1168
01:09:50,479 --> 01:09:53,000
Speaker 1: I got your dog is gonna be half a mile

1169
01:09:53,080 --> 01:09:56,320
Speaker 1: on back here before it breaks. So you gotta so

1170
01:09:56,439 --> 01:10:01,760
Speaker 1: you just you develop dogs at point and break and

1171
01:10:01,800 --> 01:10:05,280
Speaker 1: believe it or not if you later, especially later on

1172
01:10:05,320 --> 01:10:08,800
Speaker 1: the year, when the birds really get get smart and

1173
01:10:08,880 --> 01:10:13,160
Speaker 1: learned how to avoid you. When you're pursuing a tubby

1174
01:10:13,160 --> 01:10:16,000
Speaker 1: of himes, eventually they will start to peel off and

1175
01:10:16,040 --> 01:10:18,120
Speaker 1: try to get around and back here. They'll try to

1176
01:10:18,160 --> 01:10:21,840
Speaker 1: get down the wind of the dogs. That's just like

1177
01:10:21,880 --> 01:10:25,639
Speaker 1: a smart elk or something. But I don't think people

1178
01:10:25,720 --> 01:10:29,840
Speaker 1: realize that. But I've seen that happen with sage grouse

1179
01:10:29,880 --> 01:10:33,639
Speaker 1: dard all the time. They'll get a bunch of sage

1180
01:10:33,640 --> 01:10:38,160
Speaker 1: grouse years ago. Pretty soon you're walking. When you get

1181
01:10:38,200 --> 01:10:41,040
Speaker 1: to the end, one gets up and you did, and

1182
01:10:41,080 --> 01:10:43,720
Speaker 1: they just have learned, have been conditioned to where are

1183
01:10:43,720 --> 01:10:45,799
Speaker 1: the rest of them gone? They're all kind of peeling

1184
01:10:45,840 --> 01:10:50,680
Speaker 1: off and going around and back here. Yeah. You know,

1185
01:10:50,840 --> 01:10:54,719
Speaker 1: for anyone that might look at n hunting or upland

1186
01:10:54,760 --> 01:10:57,200
Speaker 1: hunting in general and think there's no like, there's no

1187
01:10:57,280 --> 01:11:00,479
Speaker 1: intricacies or nuances, or I need a dog just flushes

1188
01:11:00,479 --> 01:11:03,919
Speaker 1: the bird and you shoot it, this conversation should dissuade

1189
01:11:03,960 --> 01:11:07,759
Speaker 1: you have that idea that there are nuances to bird hunting,

1190
01:11:07,800 --> 01:11:10,880
Speaker 1: their nuances to understanding each bird, each piece of habitat

1191
01:11:11,560 --> 01:11:15,400
Speaker 1: like and and what your writings teach are are those

1192
01:11:15,479 --> 01:11:18,760
Speaker 1: little idiosyncrasies, the little things that you have to know

1193
01:11:18,920 --> 01:11:22,559
Speaker 1: to be good at. That's great. Yeah, There's another thing

1194
01:11:22,600 --> 01:11:27,080
Speaker 1: I've studied is that um huns basically, a covey of

1195
01:11:27,120 --> 01:11:32,320
Speaker 1: huns will usually nest in a certain area, um that

1196
01:11:32,479 --> 01:11:37,640
Speaker 1: that particular covey, and I always kind of think of

1197
01:11:37,680 --> 01:11:45,200
Speaker 1: that as sleeping blanket. So when they're really pushed, where

1198
01:11:45,240 --> 01:11:49,280
Speaker 1: they go is to where they they think they have

1199
01:11:49,400 --> 01:11:52,560
Speaker 1: the most protection. So many times when I flush a

1200
01:11:52,640 --> 01:11:57,599
Speaker 1: covey of huns and they start making more than one flush,

1201
01:11:57,720 --> 01:12:01,599
Speaker 1: they will use to go back to their roosting side. Yeah. Um,

1202
01:12:02,040 --> 01:12:08,720
Speaker 1: they they they have a basically I call it this

1203
01:12:08,920 --> 01:12:13,680
Speaker 1: a big circle or a big oval that they and

1204
01:12:13,720 --> 01:12:16,559
Speaker 1: they're locked into that. Once they get to that into

1205
01:12:16,560 --> 01:12:19,679
Speaker 1: that oval, the circle, they're gonna come back. That's why

1206
01:12:19,760 --> 01:12:22,280
Speaker 1: sometimes when you pursue them, all of a sudden they

1207
01:12:22,280 --> 01:12:25,200
Speaker 1: flush and they're coming back over your head, is because

1208
01:12:25,200 --> 01:12:28,080
Speaker 1: they want to go back home. I mean, they have

1209
01:12:28,760 --> 01:12:33,080
Speaker 1: and that's called I named a cruising range that cruising

1210
01:12:33,200 --> 01:12:37,680
Speaker 1: range as a as a winner approaches as or fall continues,

1211
01:12:39,680 --> 01:12:46,559
Speaker 1: that particular range will expand a little bit, uh if

1212
01:12:46,760 --> 01:12:51,840
Speaker 1: if the food source runs out. But you can't really

1213
01:12:51,960 --> 01:12:54,880
Speaker 1: visualize it as a circle. You've got to visualize it

1214
01:12:54,960 --> 01:12:59,320
Speaker 1: as kind of a I just kind of call it

1215
01:12:59,320 --> 01:13:02,640
Speaker 1: like an oval. But but I know that discovery is

1216
01:13:02,640 --> 01:13:05,400
Speaker 1: only going to go that way so far, and they're

1217
01:13:05,439 --> 01:13:08,719
Speaker 1: they're coming back or over here there. That makes sense.

1218
01:13:09,280 --> 01:13:12,280
Speaker 1: I think, you know, it's starting to think about like

1219
01:13:12,560 --> 01:13:16,479
Speaker 1: how the dog works into the equation. How Brittany's. Let's

1220
01:13:16,520 --> 01:13:20,160
Speaker 1: go back to the first time you thought of having

1221
01:13:20,520 --> 01:13:23,040
Speaker 1: We talked about this a little bit already, but the

1222
01:13:23,080 --> 01:13:25,760
Speaker 1: first time you thought of having a Brittany as a

1223
01:13:25,760 --> 01:13:28,599
Speaker 1: bird dog or a gun dog, however, you would describe

1224
01:13:28,600 --> 01:13:31,960
Speaker 1: it like you saw Brittany or experienced it and thought

1225
01:13:32,720 --> 01:13:35,560
Speaker 1: that's the one. Because there's there's a lot of characteristics

1226
01:13:35,560 --> 01:13:38,360
Speaker 1: about Brittany's that they're kind of every man's dog. They're

1227
01:13:38,439 --> 01:13:42,360
Speaker 1: very relatable, they're hard working. You know, they're not the

1228
01:13:42,439 --> 01:13:47,240
Speaker 1: Brittany breed, didn't come from some aristocracy um or anything

1229
01:13:47,280 --> 01:13:50,240
Speaker 1: like that. So there's a lot of characteristics that seem

1230
01:13:50,240 --> 01:13:52,519
Speaker 1: you know, see I guess. I guess the best way

1231
01:13:52,560 --> 01:13:56,000
Speaker 1: to explain that is why I have Brittany's is number one.

1232
01:13:56,040 --> 01:14:00,000
Speaker 1: It goes back to my college years of Oberlin. Yeah,

1233
01:13:59,760 --> 01:14:06,360
Speaker 1: and knowing very little about dogs. I found that Brittany's

1234
01:14:06,400 --> 01:14:13,280
Speaker 1: back then, we're very easy to train and very very eager,

1235
01:14:14,400 --> 01:14:18,040
Speaker 1: and they're good house dogs and they're very eager. And

1236
01:14:18,080 --> 01:14:22,040
Speaker 1: if you think back, those was those were the days

1237
01:14:22,080 --> 01:14:25,559
Speaker 1: that the only tool that I had for training a

1238
01:14:25,640 --> 01:14:28,680
Speaker 1: dog was a whistle. There was no such things as

1239
01:14:28,760 --> 01:14:34,760
Speaker 1: shot dollars or horseback chasing him, etcetera. So basically had

1240
01:14:34,800 --> 01:14:40,879
Speaker 1: to train a dog on whistle. So when I first started,

1241
01:14:41,000 --> 01:14:44,800
Speaker 1: that's what we we hunted with, and we we did

1242
01:14:44,920 --> 01:14:49,920
Speaker 1: keep our dogs fairly tight. But as as I learned

1243
01:14:51,120 --> 01:14:54,640
Speaker 1: on and on and my my Brittany's got more confidence

1244
01:14:54,680 --> 01:15:01,160
Speaker 1: and I started breeding dogs to run bigger. Therefore I

1245
01:15:01,240 --> 01:15:04,280
Speaker 1: had more confidence in them and they responded very well.

1246
01:15:04,640 --> 01:15:08,280
Speaker 1: Another thing, when I first started, I took my Brittany's

1247
01:15:08,320 --> 01:15:13,960
Speaker 1: and bred them to be primarily white. M No, and

1248
01:15:14,040 --> 01:15:16,479
Speaker 1: I like the orange and white better than the liber

1249
01:15:16,479 --> 01:15:19,639
Speaker 1: and white, even though that's not a little prejudice, probably

1250
01:15:19,680 --> 01:15:24,320
Speaker 1: towards orange and white, but a lot of orange and white.

1251
01:15:24,320 --> 01:15:28,440
Speaker 1: Brittany's were mostly orange. But I the reason I developed

1252
01:15:28,479 --> 01:15:33,080
Speaker 1: Brittany's and I selected them because of the amount of

1253
01:15:33,120 --> 01:15:38,040
Speaker 1: white is you could see them. And now that's not

1254
01:15:38,120 --> 01:15:41,040
Speaker 1: a factor anymore because now we have all these electronic

1255
01:15:41,120 --> 01:15:46,080
Speaker 1: stuff to um. Yeah, I'm not like I said. I

1256
01:15:46,200 --> 01:15:49,479
Speaker 1: have I used beepers, I don't use. I do not

1257
01:15:49,600 --> 01:15:54,240
Speaker 1: use the shot color. I don't. I um, I have

1258
01:15:54,400 --> 01:15:57,040
Speaker 1: shot the dog once we're chasing the deer or something

1259
01:15:57,080 --> 01:15:59,600
Speaker 1: like that, but I don't believe in that, and I

1260
01:15:59,640 --> 01:16:02,799
Speaker 1: don't have to. I trained all of my bird dogs

1261
01:16:04,200 --> 01:16:07,599
Speaker 1: with a paper and he told me over a hundred

1262
01:16:07,680 --> 01:16:11,240
Speaker 1: dogs that you've personally trained in your life owned personally

1263
01:16:11,240 --> 01:16:18,240
Speaker 1: a hundreds. I think sixty four there. I'm sure I've

1264
01:16:18,280 --> 01:16:23,160
Speaker 1: also let me add something to the last twenty years.

1265
01:16:23,240 --> 01:16:26,320
Speaker 1: I've also had some pointers, and the reason I have

1266
01:16:26,439 --> 01:16:29,679
Speaker 1: pointers is very is actually kind of I like pointers,

1267
01:16:30,320 --> 01:16:32,360
Speaker 1: um And I've had some setters, and I've had some

1268
01:16:32,439 --> 01:16:35,400
Speaker 1: German short hairs, just a few just to try them out.

1269
01:16:35,439 --> 01:16:39,000
Speaker 1: But I still like by pointers and Britties. The reason

1270
01:16:39,080 --> 01:16:43,880
Speaker 1: I have pointers is when I really got well known

1271
01:16:43,920 --> 01:16:47,760
Speaker 1: after writing about bird dogs, and and I would talk

1272
01:16:47,800 --> 01:16:49,880
Speaker 1: to me in my writing for magazines. So if I

1273
01:16:49,960 --> 01:16:55,559
Speaker 1: talked about how big my Brittanys was would run and

1274
01:16:55,600 --> 01:16:59,040
Speaker 1: I had a lot of these guys with their English

1275
01:16:59,040 --> 01:17:03,759
Speaker 1: pointers would be reading the magazine and kind of having

1276
01:17:03,800 --> 01:17:07,120
Speaker 1: a good time laughing, saying, this guy doesn't know what

1277
01:17:07,240 --> 01:17:11,000
Speaker 1: big big is. So they would call me and talk

1278
01:17:11,040 --> 01:17:15,120
Speaker 1: to me about big running dogs. So and over the years,

1279
01:17:15,120 --> 01:17:17,599
Speaker 1: to make a short story, over the years, I had

1280
01:17:17,680 --> 01:17:21,760
Speaker 1: quite a few guys would that come out with they

1281
01:17:21,840 --> 01:17:24,439
Speaker 1: just they just had they couldn't stand it. They had

1282
01:17:24,479 --> 01:17:27,360
Speaker 1: to show me that they had big running dogs, and

1283
01:17:27,439 --> 01:17:30,880
Speaker 1: I didn't. Well, it's so happened. When I got out here,

1284
01:17:31,439 --> 01:17:34,599
Speaker 1: they found out my dogs rant as big as theirs,

1285
01:17:35,320 --> 01:17:39,559
Speaker 1: and then they become very interested in the Brittany's, and

1286
01:17:39,600 --> 01:17:42,920
Speaker 1: so it just so happened. I had, in fact, that

1287
01:17:43,000 --> 01:17:46,040
Speaker 1: there's at least five or six guys that had really

1288
01:17:46,080 --> 01:17:49,720
Speaker 1: good pointers that say, Ben, I'm gonna give you a

1289
01:17:49,840 --> 01:17:53,479
Speaker 1: pointer just to show you. I'd say, fine, out take.

1290
01:17:53,760 --> 01:17:56,040
Speaker 1: So basically I used to I used to get a

1291
01:17:56,080 --> 01:18:02,880
Speaker 1: lot of pointers and there were no even even some

1292
01:18:03,000 --> 01:18:05,439
Speaker 1: of now my pointer, man have some of my Brittany

1293
01:18:08,280 --> 01:18:10,080
Speaker 1: You've never been I mean, I've never been around in

1294
01:18:10,120 --> 01:18:12,559
Speaker 1: Brittany that I didn't enjoy like I've never been around,

1295
01:18:12,600 --> 01:18:15,240
Speaker 1: never hunted. I founded over some Brittany's and other dogs.

1296
01:18:15,640 --> 01:18:19,920
Speaker 1: I've never been around that breed and not like gain

1297
01:18:20,000 --> 01:18:23,360
Speaker 1: some energy from from hunting with them and being around

1298
01:18:23,400 --> 01:18:29,559
Speaker 1: them like they're they're just gregarious. Yeah. I people call

1299
01:18:29,680 --> 01:18:33,839
Speaker 1: me about dogs and I don't you know, Cetter guys,

1300
01:18:34,080 --> 01:18:38,320
Speaker 1: And I call them Cetter guys, Center guys, Center guys

1301
01:18:38,360 --> 01:18:41,080
Speaker 1: that the the guys that only think there's only one

1302
01:18:41,120 --> 01:18:47,880
Speaker 1: bird dog in the world. Okay, okay, And and we

1303
01:18:48,000 --> 01:18:50,200
Speaker 1: have lots of laughs about what I talked to guys

1304
01:18:50,360 --> 01:18:55,000
Speaker 1: I've had. I've had four wonderful Setters and I actually

1305
01:18:55,040 --> 01:18:59,479
Speaker 1: I trained them and basically gave I think they gave

1306
01:18:59,560 --> 01:19:02,200
Speaker 1: him away most of them. And I've had some now

1307
01:19:02,439 --> 01:19:05,160
Speaker 1: quote French Brittany's me that fire Lane was during They're

1308
01:19:05,160 --> 01:19:08,320
Speaker 1: all Brittany's that I've had four or five French Britteys there.

1309
01:19:08,400 --> 01:19:09,880
Speaker 1: We got to cover that you had a little spat

1310
01:19:09,920 --> 01:19:14,280
Speaker 1: with the American Kennel Club way back in their day. Yeah,

1311
01:19:14,400 --> 01:19:23,960
Speaker 1: And so basically, anyway, I my advice to guys first

1312
01:19:23,960 --> 01:19:28,320
Speaker 1: starting bird hunting and know nothing about dogs. I think

1313
01:19:29,160 --> 01:19:32,280
Speaker 1: I think Brittany's and probably French Brittany's too, would add

1314
01:19:32,360 --> 01:19:38,320
Speaker 1: that I think Brittany's probably one of the easier dogs

1315
01:19:38,320 --> 01:19:45,439
Speaker 1: to train for the average guy. In fact, the only

1316
01:19:45,720 --> 01:19:48,559
Speaker 1: the only thing you really gotta do to Brittany's training

1317
01:19:48,640 --> 01:19:55,639
Speaker 1: to come, you know. And in fact it was interesting,

1318
01:19:55,800 --> 01:20:05,120
Speaker 1: I only um my uh my book bird Dog. Uh.

1319
01:20:06,880 --> 01:20:11,160
Speaker 1: In fact that it is called my publisher and that's you.

1320
01:20:12,040 --> 01:20:14,640
Speaker 1: They don't hand me left that that that sold. That

1321
01:20:14,680 --> 01:20:18,000
Speaker 1: book sold very quickly. When I my publisher asked me,

1322
01:20:18,080 --> 01:20:19,479
Speaker 1: this is quite a few years ago. He asked me

1323
01:20:19,560 --> 01:20:22,800
Speaker 1: being he said, why don't you why don't you write

1324
01:20:22,840 --> 01:20:31,840
Speaker 1: a training book on dogs? I'm training dogs, I said,

1325
01:20:31,880 --> 01:20:39,439
Speaker 1: you know, really, I said, tom um, I said, I

1326
01:20:39,600 --> 01:20:42,639
Speaker 1: load him up and take them out. And I said,

1327
01:20:42,720 --> 01:20:47,320
Speaker 1: you know, if I wrote a book about training bird dogs,

1328
01:20:48,120 --> 01:20:49,800
Speaker 1: they'd have to be a lot of fluff in that,

1329
01:20:51,160 --> 01:20:56,960
Speaker 1: he said, because I really don't know what to say. Anyway,

1330
01:20:57,080 --> 01:20:59,600
Speaker 1: I got into writing it, and and then and and

1331
01:20:59,720 --> 01:21:03,479
Speaker 1: the and I call it the instinctive training method, and

1332
01:21:04,240 --> 01:21:07,400
Speaker 1: basically is just get out and do the dog just

1333
01:21:07,600 --> 01:21:11,880
Speaker 1: and the most important thing is teach the dog to come. Yeah,

1334
01:21:12,520 --> 01:21:17,840
Speaker 1: and and and nowadays heavy electronics and so forth. It

1335
01:21:17,920 --> 01:21:20,880
Speaker 1: is a lot easier. But do you have you know,

1336
01:21:20,960 --> 01:21:25,800
Speaker 1: we hundred and sixties some dogs that you've bread and

1337
01:21:25,840 --> 01:21:28,120
Speaker 1: spent a lot of time hunting over and around over

1338
01:21:28,160 --> 01:21:31,960
Speaker 1: the years. You taught you told me about mcgilla Cutty,

1339
01:21:32,720 --> 01:21:35,360
Speaker 1: which is a dog that you have some stories with us.

1340
01:21:35,400 --> 01:21:38,200
Speaker 1: We know about Winston, You've you've written about, You've written

1341
01:21:38,200 --> 01:21:41,599
Speaker 1: about a good bit. Are is one of those dogs

1342
01:21:41,960 --> 01:21:45,120
Speaker 1: like a one that you always kind of think back

1343
01:21:45,200 --> 01:21:48,680
Speaker 1: on or just kind of take people through the relationship

1344
01:21:49,000 --> 01:21:51,519
Speaker 1: because you're I mean, you committed so much time. Well,

1345
01:21:52,120 --> 01:21:54,880
Speaker 1: I had the two females. I had my two first

1346
01:21:54,960 --> 01:22:00,200
Speaker 1: females I brought west was Gina and Lola. And I

1347
01:22:00,280 --> 01:22:03,800
Speaker 1: didn't get bridgeted, but Gina Lola bridgeted and I called

1348
01:22:03,920 --> 01:22:06,920
Speaker 1: Gina and Lola. One was an orange and white was

1349
01:22:06,960 --> 01:22:09,960
Speaker 1: delivering white. I got him from Mike Kennels and from

1350
01:22:10,000 --> 01:22:15,400
Speaker 1: Oberlin Kennel's two very good females. And when I moved

1351
01:22:15,439 --> 01:22:22,360
Speaker 1: to west Uh, I wanted to get a mail for

1352
01:22:22,960 --> 01:22:27,760
Speaker 1: to start raising dogs, so I called Wader And when

1353
01:22:27,800 --> 01:22:33,920
Speaker 1: I after three years, I got a dog I named

1354
01:22:34,000 --> 01:22:36,760
Speaker 1: Mike because when I was a kid, I had the

1355
01:22:36,840 --> 01:22:41,560
Speaker 1: dog so being an artist also, so I like the

1356
01:22:41,640 --> 01:22:46,240
Speaker 1: name Mike alone michel Angelo, so which is I called

1357
01:22:46,360 --> 01:22:55,200
Speaker 1: the short for Mike? Okay, So anyway, I had I

1358
01:22:55,360 --> 01:23:03,000
Speaker 1: named Mike Kennel's Williams Pride Way, Him's William's Pride Williams

1359
01:23:03,120 --> 01:23:12,160
Speaker 1: Pride Kennels. And Mike was my first male And so

1360
01:23:12,439 --> 01:23:17,479
Speaker 1: I found out from a guy in Texas by the

1361
01:23:17,600 --> 01:23:22,639
Speaker 1: name of Jim Lebrick. Um I got his name from

1362
01:23:23,360 --> 01:23:26,920
Speaker 1: Telmar Smith, but that's he's pretty well known at the

1363
01:23:27,040 --> 01:23:30,280
Speaker 1: borrow War. And he advised me to get a dog

1364
01:23:30,439 --> 01:23:33,519
Speaker 1: from Jim Lebrick. And over the years, I think I

1365
01:23:33,640 --> 01:23:37,000
Speaker 1: got nine or ten dogs from Jim. But I wanted

1366
01:23:37,080 --> 01:23:41,840
Speaker 1: to I wanted to take the bloodline I had and

1367
01:23:42,920 --> 01:23:47,320
Speaker 1: Illinois and and he was a he was a field

1368
01:23:47,360 --> 01:23:50,760
Speaker 1: trial judge and he ran Brittany's off a horseback. So

1369
01:23:50,880 --> 01:23:55,920
Speaker 1: I wanted to develop big arranging dogs. So I got

1370
01:23:57,000 --> 01:24:01,160
Speaker 1: the female side from him, and I took my mail side,

1371
01:24:02,479 --> 01:24:07,320
Speaker 1: and that was my studying my bloodlines. So basically that's

1372
01:24:07,360 --> 01:24:10,519
Speaker 1: how I started working to get bigg and running dogs.

1373
01:24:11,479 --> 01:24:14,559
Speaker 1: And uh, I'll just tell you another little story, which

1374
01:24:14,680 --> 01:24:18,000
Speaker 1: was night. So the reason I called him, you asked

1375
01:24:18,040 --> 01:24:20,080
Speaker 1: me The reason I called him mcgilla cutty and changed

1376
01:24:20,120 --> 01:24:24,400
Speaker 1: his name is that I had a I had a

1377
01:24:24,479 --> 01:24:28,880
Speaker 1: friend over and Bozeman. This was in the sixties, that

1378
01:24:30,360 --> 01:24:36,280
Speaker 1: some guy had this big Brittany and he let the

1379
01:24:36,360 --> 01:24:40,040
Speaker 1: dog out in the morning and Bosen was a small

1380
01:24:40,160 --> 01:24:43,519
Speaker 1: town back and then about sized Livingston and the dog

1381
01:24:43,800 --> 01:24:47,479
Speaker 1: would go out and run the city and getting streets fights.

1382
01:24:47,560 --> 01:24:50,519
Speaker 1: He was a big dog getting the fights, and he

1383
01:24:51,479 --> 01:24:55,799
Speaker 1: about every other day he'd be in the dog pound

1384
01:24:56,680 --> 01:24:59,679
Speaker 1: and the guy that owned him his bill. The dog

1385
01:25:00,120 --> 01:25:03,559
Speaker 1: got more than his rent, so he decided to get

1386
01:25:03,680 --> 01:25:06,120
Speaker 1: rid of it. Okay, that's like like having a dogs,

1387
01:25:06,160 --> 01:25:10,880
Speaker 1: like having a kids. He gave it to the vet

1388
01:25:12,520 --> 01:25:15,559
Speaker 1: and he's I'm not paying the bill so that they're

1389
01:25:15,600 --> 01:25:18,080
Speaker 1: gonna put the dog down. So the vet knew I

1390
01:25:18,200 --> 01:25:20,080
Speaker 1: had Brittany and he called me. He said, Ben, he said,

1391
01:25:20,080 --> 01:25:26,880
Speaker 1: I had this big raw bone. There's big Brittany And

1392
01:25:26,960 --> 01:25:29,840
Speaker 1: he said, would you like to have him? And I said,

1393
01:25:29,920 --> 01:25:31,519
Speaker 1: and he told me the story. He said, he's a

1394
01:25:31,720 --> 01:25:34,600
Speaker 1: piece a street fighter and he's he's I don't know

1395
01:25:34,800 --> 01:25:37,679
Speaker 1: if he can hunt or not. He's the guy claimed

1396
01:25:37,680 --> 01:25:41,400
Speaker 1: he took him peasant hunting. He's he's not trained. So

1397
01:25:41,520 --> 01:25:43,360
Speaker 1: I said, I said, I'll tell you what I'll do.

1398
01:25:43,400 --> 01:25:47,519
Speaker 1: I'll take him for a month and and I see

1399
01:25:47,560 --> 01:25:53,519
Speaker 1: if he works out. So when Mike got here, his

1400
01:25:53,640 --> 01:25:58,080
Speaker 1: name was Mike. Two Mikes. I can't okay, you can't

1401
01:25:58,120 --> 01:26:01,599
Speaker 1: have two Mikes. So my friend Charlie Waterman, he used

1402
01:26:01,640 --> 01:26:03,280
Speaker 1: to hunt with me. He was he an outdoor writer.

1403
01:26:03,840 --> 01:26:08,280
Speaker 1: Charlie Waterman came over to see my new Mike and

1404
01:26:09,520 --> 01:26:13,679
Speaker 1: and he looked at Michelangelo Mike Michelangelo, and he said,

1405
01:26:14,880 --> 01:26:18,240
Speaker 1: you know, Ben, he's always kind of looked like a

1406
01:26:18,360 --> 01:26:21,599
Speaker 1: mcgilla cutty to me. I said, well, let's call him

1407
01:26:21,640 --> 01:26:25,240
Speaker 1: the Guller cutter. And he looked at Mike. He said,

1408
01:26:25,600 --> 01:26:28,400
Speaker 1: look at that big guy. He said, let's just call

1409
01:26:28,560 --> 01:26:33,760
Speaker 1: him Iron Mike. So that's how they got their name.

1410
01:26:34,680 --> 01:26:39,000
Speaker 1: And he was, these are some of the first ironed

1411
01:26:39,080 --> 01:26:47,120
Speaker 1: Mike Iron Mike. Uh we he had a very bad

1412
01:26:47,240 --> 01:26:51,200
Speaker 1: first week with me. Okay, because I sat down Iron Mike,

1413
01:26:51,280 --> 01:26:54,519
Speaker 1: I said, being a school teacher, I said, I guess

1414
01:26:54,560 --> 01:26:58,519
Speaker 1: whose boss ironed Mike. Okay, you look it at him, Okay,

1415
01:27:00,040 --> 01:27:05,320
Speaker 1: but believe it or not, I never bred him. He

1416
01:27:05,439 --> 01:27:08,160
Speaker 1: had never had it hands before and he ran big

1417
01:27:09,560 --> 01:27:14,320
Speaker 1: and when he pointed you you could sit down and

1418
01:27:14,400 --> 01:27:17,519
Speaker 1: have lunch and he would move. So I ran him

1419
01:27:17,680 --> 01:27:21,320
Speaker 1: in big wheat fields and he he had take like

1420
01:27:21,400 --> 01:27:24,599
Speaker 1: a half mile long. So you see Mike going down.

1421
01:27:24,640 --> 01:27:26,280
Speaker 1: He goes right down the middle of the wheat field

1422
01:27:26,600 --> 01:27:31,640
Speaker 1: all the way down and iron Mike. If he locked up,

1423
01:27:32,760 --> 01:27:35,599
Speaker 1: you got him. He takes you go down one week

1424
01:27:35,680 --> 01:27:37,600
Speaker 1: field and you go down the other week field. Just

1425
01:27:37,880 --> 01:27:42,840
Speaker 1: covered country. Unbelievable. Describe like when you say, you know,

1426
01:27:43,880 --> 01:27:46,360
Speaker 1: when you're looking at a dog that's on it like

1427
01:27:46,479 --> 01:27:49,800
Speaker 1: a perfect point, what's that look like? Like? What's that dog?

1428
01:27:49,920 --> 01:27:57,439
Speaker 1: What's this posture? Like? Explain the perfect point to people? Well,

1429
01:27:59,640 --> 01:28:06,280
Speaker 1: the eye de Brittany's I the idea of posture in America?

1430
01:28:06,400 --> 01:28:11,880
Speaker 1: The I guess the idea is that is that you

1431
01:28:11,960 --> 01:28:15,240
Speaker 1: want to high tail, strung out straight and so forth.

1432
01:28:15,360 --> 01:28:21,920
Speaker 1: I um, I've never been a big, big fan of

1433
01:28:23,160 --> 01:28:27,800
Speaker 1: having classic dogs point and so forth. In fact, I

1434
01:28:27,880 --> 01:28:31,720
Speaker 1: think it's kind of crazy because the English, basically all

1435
01:28:31,800 --> 01:28:34,920
Speaker 1: of their bloodlines, all their dogs have low tails. They

1436
01:28:35,000 --> 01:28:36,640
Speaker 1: have a low tail for a reason. They don't want

1437
01:28:36,680 --> 01:28:41,719
Speaker 1: the dog the bird to see the tail. But being

1438
01:28:41,800 --> 01:28:43,840
Speaker 1: in America, I think we got to cut a show

1439
01:28:43,880 --> 01:28:45,600
Speaker 1: off a little bit. More so if we have a

1440
01:28:45,680 --> 01:28:49,920
Speaker 1: Tennessee to like our dogs and this beautiful stance and

1441
01:28:50,040 --> 01:28:54,559
Speaker 1: so forth, and and so I've never been I've never

1442
01:28:54,680 --> 01:28:59,720
Speaker 1: been keen on the ideal posture for a dog. You

1443
01:28:59,840 --> 01:29:02,160
Speaker 1: just one one that holds on point and knows when

1444
01:29:02,240 --> 01:29:04,479
Speaker 1: the as long as you're holding on point or we're

1445
01:29:05,080 --> 01:29:08,760
Speaker 1: walking and moving. The most important thing I don't watch

1446
01:29:08,800 --> 01:29:12,000
Speaker 1: the dogs posture. I watch the dog's eyes. That those

1447
01:29:12,080 --> 01:29:16,200
Speaker 1: eyes tell me what's going on. In fact, I even

1448
01:29:16,240 --> 01:29:22,640
Speaker 1: wrote about I had a dog, Clyde. Clyde was a

1449
01:29:22,680 --> 01:29:27,160
Speaker 1: piece of work. Okay. In fact, when he pointed, he

1450
01:29:27,320 --> 01:29:31,040
Speaker 1: looked like he's waiting for a bus. Okay, he was

1451
01:29:31,120 --> 01:29:37,920
Speaker 1: kind of you know, but he was good. It was good.

1452
01:29:38,439 --> 01:29:43,360
Speaker 1: And he said, what do you played? You said, hey,

1453
01:29:43,479 --> 01:29:50,960
Speaker 1: Ben over here, got him. He's gonna like this look around. Okay,

1454
01:29:55,040 --> 01:29:57,560
Speaker 1: But you said, like all these dogs have different personalities.

1455
01:29:58,280 --> 01:30:00,200
Speaker 1: You spend so much time. I mean, you spend time

1456
01:30:00,240 --> 01:30:04,600
Speaker 1: around him. From when they're puppies. You are basically selecting

1457
01:30:04,720 --> 01:30:09,759
Speaker 1: them for for service into this life. They energetically go forward.

1458
01:30:09,840 --> 01:30:13,880
Speaker 1: And the important thing about bird dogs, I think is

1459
01:30:14,520 --> 01:30:18,839
Speaker 1: is it's you know, I coach basketball like coach football

1460
01:30:18,880 --> 01:30:22,400
Speaker 1: a little bit. You gotta you know, you want to win,

1461
01:30:22,600 --> 01:30:27,720
Speaker 1: but you also got to have fun. And I don't

1462
01:30:27,800 --> 01:30:30,400
Speaker 1: go out there and yell at my dogs and jump

1463
01:30:30,520 --> 01:30:33,640
Speaker 1: up and down and get mad or grab him and

1464
01:30:33,840 --> 01:30:37,880
Speaker 1: make them do this. That's not my agenda. My agenda

1465
01:30:38,160 --> 01:30:40,559
Speaker 1: is we're gonna have a good time. And if they

1466
01:30:41,880 --> 01:30:45,040
Speaker 1: foul up or something, you know, if they break a

1467
01:30:45,120 --> 01:30:49,120
Speaker 1: point or something, I don't I don't jump at him

1468
01:30:49,160 --> 01:30:51,200
Speaker 1: and yell at him and grab him and make him

1469
01:30:51,320 --> 01:30:55,920
Speaker 1: point again and scream and hollow at him. And uh,

1470
01:30:57,640 --> 01:31:01,360
Speaker 1: you know they I've seen guys blow their whistled and

1471
01:31:01,560 --> 01:31:04,879
Speaker 1: jumping the air and point like this. I mean, that's crazy,

1472
01:31:05,280 --> 01:31:10,280
Speaker 1: you know they I kind of think about it my

1473
01:31:10,439 --> 01:31:13,760
Speaker 1: kids in basketball. There's five kids on the court, and

1474
01:31:13,840 --> 01:31:16,200
Speaker 1: I'm on the I'm on the in the bench. You know,

1475
01:31:17,320 --> 01:31:21,400
Speaker 1: they gotta do it the same thing with four bird

1476
01:31:21,479 --> 01:31:24,280
Speaker 1: dogs down. They gotta do it guiding them. They got

1477
01:31:24,400 --> 01:31:28,679
Speaker 1: to do it. In terms of the relationships, like I said,

1478
01:31:28,720 --> 01:31:31,920
Speaker 1: you're selecting, you know, basically selecting these animals, and they're

1479
01:31:32,000 --> 01:31:35,479
Speaker 1: with you so long and then at some point they're

1480
01:31:35,520 --> 01:31:39,360
Speaker 1: gone and there's a new puppy to train, Like, describe

1481
01:31:39,439 --> 01:31:42,280
Speaker 1: that kind of that relationship where you've been through a

1482
01:31:42,360 --> 01:31:46,680
Speaker 1: hundred and sixty four dogs, some like they die and

1483
01:31:46,720 --> 01:31:48,600
Speaker 1: then you get a new puppy and you kind of

1484
01:31:48,720 --> 01:31:53,240
Speaker 1: cycle through um different animals. Describe, you know, whether it's

1485
01:31:53,280 --> 01:31:56,240
Speaker 1: a one particular dog or just the feeling of kind

1486
01:31:56,280 --> 01:32:00,160
Speaker 1: of that process of watching them, uh come to hea

1487
01:32:00,160 --> 01:32:03,800
Speaker 1: ca and then die. I guess what you'd I guess

1488
01:32:03,880 --> 01:32:10,000
Speaker 1: I put it this way. Is that the reason I've

1489
01:32:10,080 --> 01:32:11,840
Speaker 1: had a lot of dogs because I like to see

1490
01:32:11,880 --> 01:32:17,519
Speaker 1: a the young dogs develop into mature dogs. And there

1491
01:32:17,520 --> 01:32:20,519
Speaker 1: are people say that an older dog will teach a

1492
01:32:20,640 --> 01:32:25,920
Speaker 1: young dog how to hunt. That's not true. The only

1493
01:32:26,000 --> 01:32:28,280
Speaker 1: thing an older dog will do to a young dog

1494
01:32:28,439 --> 01:32:33,600
Speaker 1: is give him some encouragement to run out. But they

1495
01:32:33,680 --> 01:32:37,400
Speaker 1: gotta they gotta learn to hunt there. I mean, every

1496
01:32:37,520 --> 01:32:41,519
Speaker 1: dog is a little different, just like every basketball player

1497
01:32:41,560 --> 01:32:45,840
Speaker 1: I had. Some of them just have that instinct to

1498
01:32:46,040 --> 01:32:49,240
Speaker 1: know when to move and when to go in for

1499
01:32:49,360 --> 01:32:53,560
Speaker 1: that shot. A dog the same way. Basically, I have

1500
01:32:53,760 --> 01:32:58,040
Speaker 1: dogs no no, exactly to cover the hut and not

1501
01:32:58,240 --> 01:33:01,000
Speaker 1: to cover the hut. And I why some people's dogs

1502
01:33:01,080 --> 01:33:04,360
Speaker 1: and they're out there hunting and they they shouldn't be

1503
01:33:04,439 --> 01:33:07,280
Speaker 1: hunting there at all. They should be hunting where the

1504
01:33:07,320 --> 01:33:13,360
Speaker 1: birds are. That's a smart dog. Dogs. You know, there's

1505
01:33:13,439 --> 01:33:16,320
Speaker 1: different levels of smartness and the dog. Some dogs you

1506
01:33:16,400 --> 01:33:22,479
Speaker 1: can just see no exactly how to hunt um. And

1507
01:33:22,600 --> 01:33:25,320
Speaker 1: I've had some of my pointers. I've had dogs that

1508
01:33:25,520 --> 01:33:29,439
Speaker 1: just basically get out of the truck and just like

1509
01:33:29,600 --> 01:33:33,000
Speaker 1: an arrow, just go out exactly. And another thing is

1510
01:33:33,080 --> 01:33:37,320
Speaker 1: once you hunt a dog and the same places over

1511
01:33:37,400 --> 01:33:41,840
Speaker 1: and over again throughout the year, you'll be amazed that

1512
01:33:42,000 --> 01:33:45,320
Speaker 1: those dogs know what those cubbies where I do. I

1513
01:33:45,479 --> 01:33:49,679
Speaker 1: remember I was struck with you're hunting with Morgan Mason's

1514
01:33:49,720 --> 01:33:53,320
Speaker 1: dog and another colleguards, Joe Ferrnado. We were hunting up

1515
01:33:53,600 --> 01:33:57,080
Speaker 1: for blue grouse and just hunting over those dogs. Their

1516
01:33:57,160 --> 01:33:59,800
Speaker 1: office dogs. They come around the mediator office. They're hanging out,

1517
01:34:00,040 --> 01:34:02,320
Speaker 1: see them every day, wonderful. We love them and they're

1518
01:34:02,400 --> 01:34:05,240
Speaker 1: they're part of our family. And then to watch it's

1519
01:34:05,360 --> 01:34:08,760
Speaker 1: kind of like having somebody around every day and then

1520
01:34:08,840 --> 01:34:10,720
Speaker 1: watching them go to work, you know, hanging out with

1521
01:34:10,800 --> 01:34:13,080
Speaker 1: Michael Jordan all day and then watching them shoot hoops.

1522
01:34:13,439 --> 01:34:16,240
Speaker 1: It's like just watching them. They're young dogs. But they're learning.

1523
01:34:16,840 --> 01:34:18,840
Speaker 1: We shot a couple of grouse over them to watch

1524
01:34:18,960 --> 01:34:21,880
Speaker 1: them do their things. Is there some magic to it? Man?

1525
01:34:22,040 --> 01:34:25,240
Speaker 1: Like just that relationship? I think basically, I guess, I

1526
01:34:25,280 --> 01:34:31,120
Speaker 1: don't know. I guess I think there's probably we're actually

1527
01:34:31,200 --> 01:34:34,840
Speaker 1: more lousy hunters in there are lousy dogs. Okay, that's

1528
01:34:34,840 --> 01:34:40,080
Speaker 1: a T shirt. That's an upland T shirt about You're

1529
01:34:40,160 --> 01:34:43,280
Speaker 1: right about that? Is there? Like? I mean, the the

1530
01:34:43,400 --> 01:34:50,559
Speaker 1: important thing about you know, the important thing about running

1531
01:34:50,640 --> 01:34:53,479
Speaker 1: dogs and so forth, just you really want them to

1532
01:34:53,640 --> 01:34:58,439
Speaker 1: have fun. Also, Yeah, I mean that's important. I mean,

1533
01:34:59,000 --> 01:35:04,559
Speaker 1: and that's I contribute a lot of my knowledge who're

1534
01:35:04,560 --> 01:35:07,680
Speaker 1: working with dogs also with coaching already do It's it's

1535
01:35:07,720 --> 01:35:10,840
Speaker 1: almost kind of the same thing as you just you

1536
01:35:10,880 --> 01:35:15,600
Speaker 1: can you can only do so much with a with

1537
01:35:15,720 --> 01:35:18,320
Speaker 1: a basketball player, but he's got to do the rest,

1538
01:35:19,280 --> 01:35:21,800
Speaker 1: and you've got to give him. You got to give

1539
01:35:21,920 --> 01:35:25,639
Speaker 1: him some room to the develop. And so that's one

1540
01:35:25,680 --> 01:35:28,799
Speaker 1: reason why I don't I mean, some of my dogs

1541
01:35:30,040 --> 01:35:33,960
Speaker 1: mature a little bit. Uh, they take a little longer mature.

1542
01:35:34,640 --> 01:35:39,360
Speaker 1: I have found. I found my English pointers basically don't

1543
01:35:39,400 --> 01:35:43,120
Speaker 1: really start the mature really get into big started. Good

1544
01:35:43,160 --> 01:35:46,479
Speaker 1: bird dogs he had about three years. And Brittany's a

1545
01:35:46,560 --> 01:35:48,760
Speaker 1: lot of time. A good Brittany will start this first

1546
01:35:48,880 --> 01:35:56,080
Speaker 1: year they there and they uh, Brittany is at the longevity.

1547
01:35:56,240 --> 01:35:58,679
Speaker 1: The nice thing about Brittany's most of them lived longer

1548
01:35:58,760 --> 01:36:04,840
Speaker 1: than most most winning dogs. They'll live about fourteen fifteen years,

1549
01:36:04,920 --> 01:36:09,200
Speaker 1: no hunt their fourteen. Um, what's the longest you had

1550
01:36:09,240 --> 01:36:14,639
Speaker 1: a dog stay with you hunting? How many years? Years? Fifteen?

1551
01:36:14,720 --> 01:36:16,560
Speaker 1: I got an old dog out there right now that

1552
01:36:17,080 --> 01:36:23,320
Speaker 1: that Yeah, I had one that was, um, well, mcgilla

1553
01:36:23,400 --> 01:36:25,920
Speaker 1: Cutty lived to fourteen. Yeah, we had to close up

1554
01:36:25,960 --> 01:36:28,560
Speaker 1: mcgilla cutty stories that he lived a fourteen and he

1555
01:36:28,800 --> 01:36:33,120
Speaker 1: was he was he finally come blind, but he would

1556
01:36:33,200 --> 01:36:35,360
Speaker 1: walk when he was. I'd take him out hunting and

1557
01:36:35,439 --> 01:36:38,680
Speaker 1: he'd he could see him follow his nose even noough

1558
01:36:38,720 --> 01:36:41,560
Speaker 1: he couldn't see very well, but he still would go

1559
01:36:41,560 --> 01:36:43,599
Speaker 1: out with me. Like the rest of us, we still

1560
01:36:43,640 --> 01:36:46,400
Speaker 1: want to go until we just can't go anymore. What

1561
01:36:46,560 --> 01:36:50,280
Speaker 1: when when a dog like mcgilla Cutty finally you know,

1562
01:36:50,400 --> 01:36:52,599
Speaker 1: you finally put him down and you finally lose him.

1563
01:36:53,320 --> 01:36:55,000
Speaker 1: I mean, you have a lot of rich memories with

1564
01:36:55,080 --> 01:36:57,320
Speaker 1: that dog. What's that? What's that, like, what was it

1565
01:36:57,439 --> 01:37:03,439
Speaker 1: like to watch him, you know, go down? Putting a

1566
01:37:03,560 --> 01:37:06,519
Speaker 1: dog down him is a very sad affair with me.

1567
01:37:06,840 --> 01:37:11,160
Speaker 1: I mean it's it's uh, I I don't handle that

1568
01:37:11,360 --> 01:37:13,800
Speaker 1: very well. I take him to the vet and we

1569
01:37:13,920 --> 01:37:20,760
Speaker 1: put him down, but it's it's not a uh and

1570
01:37:20,920 --> 01:37:23,320
Speaker 1: I best thing I try to do is go back

1571
01:37:23,400 --> 01:37:25,560
Speaker 1: and think about all the good times we had with

1572
01:37:25,680 --> 01:37:28,040
Speaker 1: him and so forth. And I got a female right

1573
01:37:28,080 --> 01:37:32,880
Speaker 1: now that she's Mary. Mary. That's just an absolute phenomenal

1574
01:37:32,960 --> 01:37:38,240
Speaker 1: dogging not much longer. No, she's she can't anymore. Her

1575
01:37:38,360 --> 01:37:43,519
Speaker 1: legs are bad, she can't walk. A tough part of

1576
01:37:45,560 --> 01:37:48,160
Speaker 1: That's the toughest part of having all these dogs is that.

1577
01:37:49,600 --> 01:37:52,200
Speaker 1: And they don't live very long, you know, the fifteen

1578
01:37:52,240 --> 01:37:56,240
Speaker 1: years not very long. Um As a good example, I

1579
01:37:56,400 --> 01:38:01,160
Speaker 1: lost last year. I lost four in my best four

1580
01:38:01,280 --> 01:38:06,600
Speaker 1: in one year, three pointers and Mary Mary did and

1581
01:38:07,800 --> 01:38:10,840
Speaker 1: the pointers died one I had cancer, one died of

1582
01:38:12,520 --> 01:38:18,720
Speaker 1: of crush the wheat dress and his lungs, and the

1583
01:38:18,840 --> 01:38:22,320
Speaker 1: other one uh, I don't really don't know why I died.

1584
01:38:22,400 --> 01:38:27,200
Speaker 1: But they were only I think they were twelve and thirteen.

1585
01:38:27,800 --> 01:38:30,759
Speaker 1: Just so happened to three of them that four dogs,

1586
01:38:31,439 --> 01:38:36,600
Speaker 1: and I basically am down on for really really outstanding

1587
01:38:36,720 --> 01:38:42,240
Speaker 1: dogs not and I only have probably three, um, and

1588
01:38:42,360 --> 01:38:45,559
Speaker 1: they don't compare. I got another young little pointed that's

1589
01:38:45,600 --> 01:38:48,840
Speaker 1: going to be good. But none of none of these

1590
01:38:48,920 --> 01:38:56,920
Speaker 1: dogs compare with mcgilla cutty or with uh Winston has

1591
01:38:57,040 --> 01:38:59,519
Speaker 1: has how you see those deaths changed over the years?

1592
01:38:59,560 --> 01:39:01,400
Speaker 1: I mean, you've watched all these dogs come and go.

1593
01:39:01,880 --> 01:39:07,120
Speaker 1: Now you're seven. Have your view of those deaths changed

1594
01:39:07,240 --> 01:39:08,840
Speaker 1: or is it still as hard as it ever was

1595
01:39:10,240 --> 01:39:13,760
Speaker 1: each time? I don't quite understand the question. How do

1596
01:39:13,840 --> 01:39:16,120
Speaker 1: you know when you're I'm sure when you're a younger hunter,

1597
01:39:16,280 --> 01:39:19,679
Speaker 1: say when your first you know when mcgilla cutty's around,

1598
01:39:19,840 --> 01:39:22,559
Speaker 1: When when you're first getting these dogs and you're you're

1599
01:39:22,560 --> 01:39:25,320
Speaker 1: starting to you're learning with them, and now you've been

1600
01:39:25,400 --> 01:39:28,800
Speaker 1: doing it for six decades. And has anything changed with

1601
01:39:28,880 --> 01:39:30,800
Speaker 1: you when you lose a dog or when you develop

1602
01:39:30,880 --> 01:39:33,599
Speaker 1: that relationship or do you are you still? I don't

1603
01:39:33,640 --> 01:39:43,720
Speaker 1: think so. I don't. It's not any easier. Yeah, um no, No,

1604
01:39:43,920 --> 01:39:48,280
Speaker 1: they're just they're just a part of my life, you know. Um.

1605
01:39:49,400 --> 01:39:52,320
Speaker 1: Another thing we we haven't you haven't maybe mentioned, is

1606
01:39:52,400 --> 01:40:02,439
Speaker 1: that um, since huns come from England originally, or if

1607
01:40:02,479 --> 01:40:07,280
Speaker 1: they're from Hungary and Saskatchewan, or they step country of Europe,

1608
01:40:08,160 --> 01:40:13,040
Speaker 1: and I become very interested in huns. So in a return,

1609
01:40:14,400 --> 01:40:19,559
Speaker 1: I become very interested in hunt dogs. Basically Brittany's from

1610
01:40:19,600 --> 01:40:27,519
Speaker 1: France and in pointers. And so there's basically one thing

1611
01:40:27,600 --> 01:40:37,160
Speaker 1: that was missing, and that is Brettish guns, which I've

1612
01:40:37,200 --> 01:40:39,759
Speaker 1: had a lot. You can't have this conversation without talking

1613
01:40:39,800 --> 01:40:42,880
Speaker 1: about that. You can't have this conversation to talk about those.

1614
01:40:44,160 --> 01:40:47,600
Speaker 1: You can see, Yeah, let's see, I see what you know.

1615
01:40:47,840 --> 01:40:50,880
Speaker 1: So of of the shotguns that that you've used over

1616
01:40:50,920 --> 01:40:53,840
Speaker 1: the years, what's the crown jewel, what's the like the

1617
01:40:54,000 --> 01:40:57,400
Speaker 1: shotgun that you have put the most rounds through? And

1618
01:40:58,920 --> 01:41:01,519
Speaker 1: what's the what's the shotgun you've pointed at the most huns?

1619
01:41:02,120 --> 01:41:06,200
Speaker 1: What what gun killed the most huns? Oh, that's that's

1620
01:41:06,200 --> 01:41:09,680
Speaker 1: an easy question. That's a very easy question. In nine

1621
01:41:10,080 --> 01:41:14,559
Speaker 1: six three, when I worked for Dan Bailey's fly shop Necember,

1622
01:41:15,600 --> 01:41:19,920
Speaker 1: I bought a Belgium Browning that he Belgium Brownie back

1623
01:41:20,000 --> 01:41:22,360
Speaker 1: then in the Belgium Brownie. Before that, I had a

1624
01:41:24,920 --> 01:41:32,200
Speaker 1: Model thirty seven Ethaca and I had a UH five

1625
01:41:32,880 --> 01:41:37,840
Speaker 1: with a pickle on the end. That was a compensator.

1626
01:41:37,920 --> 01:41:44,240
Speaker 1: You remember the polly jokes, Okay, dad? Growing up, I

1627
01:41:44,320 --> 01:41:46,439
Speaker 1: think everybody that had a shotgun headed in take a

1628
01:41:46,520 --> 01:41:50,680
Speaker 1: shotgun set him. I loved the ethics. But anyway, when

1629
01:41:50,720 --> 01:41:57,200
Speaker 1: I got this, I got a twenty gauge Belgium Brownie. Um.

1630
01:41:58,920 --> 01:42:00,840
Speaker 1: I'm not going to tell you how many Hans I

1631
01:42:00,880 --> 01:42:07,840
Speaker 1: shot with that gun because they probably put me in jail. Okay, Um,

1632
01:42:08,520 --> 01:42:21,599
Speaker 1: I shot that gun for sixty almost thirty five years. Wow,

1633
01:42:22,080 --> 01:42:26,240
Speaker 1: I live. I practically shout it out. I just and uh.

1634
01:42:27,320 --> 01:42:30,040
Speaker 1: And that one of the reasons I can, I can

1635
01:42:30,080 --> 01:42:34,679
Speaker 1: honestly say, is that that story. I had to remember,

1636
01:42:34,720 --> 01:42:41,160
Speaker 1: the A five, the Browning, the automatic. When I was

1637
01:42:41,400 --> 01:42:44,760
Speaker 1: in my college days, peasant and I bought one of those.

1638
01:42:44,840 --> 01:42:47,800
Speaker 1: I think I scraped up and up. No one that

1639
01:42:47,960 --> 01:42:51,680
Speaker 1: that it costs me seventy and that was and I

1640
01:42:51,800 --> 01:42:55,200
Speaker 1: took it to When I moved from Illinois, I went

1641
01:42:55,240 --> 01:42:58,599
Speaker 1: to Washington. Taught for a couple of years, and how

1642
01:42:58,680 --> 01:43:06,519
Speaker 1: did huns, but mostly hunted chuckers and quail. And I

1643
01:43:06,640 --> 01:43:09,519
Speaker 1: had my so I was invited. I was not invited

1644
01:43:09,560 --> 01:43:17,360
Speaker 1: out to a farm in northern Washington up behind a

1645
01:43:17,439 --> 01:43:20,360
Speaker 1: place called Old Mac and I was going with a

1646
01:43:21,080 --> 01:43:22,920
Speaker 1: guy hunting deer in front of my one of my

1647
01:43:23,400 --> 01:43:25,400
Speaker 1: teaching friends, and I was going to hunt birds and

1648
01:43:25,760 --> 01:43:28,320
Speaker 1: he's on deer and so forth. In fact, that's where

1649
01:43:28,320 --> 01:43:31,160
Speaker 1: I saw my first age girls. So anyway, I was

1650
01:43:31,280 --> 01:43:34,559
Speaker 1: very excited about. So we stayed overnight at the farmhouse

1651
01:43:34,640 --> 01:43:37,639
Speaker 1: and talked to the rancher and he said, I told

1652
01:43:37,680 --> 01:43:41,080
Speaker 1: him I would like to have some quail, not quail. Oh,

1653
01:43:41,360 --> 01:43:44,599
Speaker 1: I got all kinds of quail. So he said, if

1654
01:43:44,640 --> 01:43:46,840
Speaker 1: you go down this road here and take a left

1655
01:43:46,880 --> 01:43:48,719
Speaker 1: and the right, and he said, there's a big bunch

1656
01:43:48,800 --> 01:43:51,559
Speaker 1: of choke chairs and he said just drive up there

1657
01:43:51,560 --> 01:43:54,040
Speaker 1: and you'll see a bunch of quail and they're always

1658
01:43:54,080 --> 01:43:56,479
Speaker 1: in there. So he was. I drove up there and

1659
01:43:58,040 --> 01:44:04,280
Speaker 1: drove by the big choke tray patch and about five

1660
01:44:04,760 --> 01:44:08,840
Speaker 1: quail got up and flushed. Okay, I had my two

1661
01:44:08,920 --> 01:44:11,680
Speaker 1: dogs with my two brandies. They flushed and lit on

1662
01:44:11,760 --> 01:44:17,720
Speaker 1: the hillside all sage brush. I'm not exaggerating, but I

1663
01:44:17,840 --> 01:44:21,560
Speaker 1: think every stage busch had a quail in it. Okay, So,

1664
01:44:22,280 --> 01:44:27,200
Speaker 1: being excited, I go over there with my A five

1665
01:44:28,800 --> 01:44:32,719
Speaker 1: take one box. I tied a whole box of shells.

1666
01:44:34,560 --> 01:44:41,400
Speaker 1: Shells went over there dogs be wonderful points. Um. I

1667
01:44:41,600 --> 01:44:49,759
Speaker 1: missed shots in a row, never cuts, never cut a feather.

1668
01:44:52,400 --> 01:44:56,960
Speaker 1: Drove back and I driving back home, I said, I

1669
01:44:57,120 --> 01:45:01,360
Speaker 1: think I need another gun. Okay, this thing is too heavy.

1670
01:45:01,920 --> 01:45:06,760
Speaker 1: I need something fast, Okay. So in the meantime I

1671
01:45:07,640 --> 01:45:10,320
Speaker 1: had I got ahold of. I had a little fever

1672
01:45:10,520 --> 01:45:12,400
Speaker 1: that I would use that, which is a lovely little

1673
01:45:12,439 --> 01:45:14,479
Speaker 1: got little twenty gates with fever. I should have brought

1674
01:45:14,560 --> 01:45:17,439
Speaker 1: that gun, but I I thought the other one's gonna work.

1675
01:45:18,120 --> 01:45:21,000
Speaker 1: So when I finally started hunting huns here, the first

1676
01:45:21,040 --> 01:45:25,120
Speaker 1: thing I did was what they did up. I wanted

1677
01:45:25,120 --> 01:45:30,240
Speaker 1: to get up Belgium, Brownie. It was light, twenty games

1678
01:45:30,360 --> 01:45:32,680
Speaker 1: was fast? Are you a twenty gage guy all the

1679
01:45:32,720 --> 01:45:37,720
Speaker 1: way gage? Or or is it unsophisticated to shoot it

1680
01:45:37,760 --> 01:45:41,840
Speaker 1: twelfth gage? I probably I've had more gauges in any care.

1681
01:45:42,000 --> 01:45:48,040
Speaker 1: That's I've had about eight gauges. Now I'm into shooting

1682
01:45:48,640 --> 01:45:54,439
Speaker 1: English guns with two inch shells. I used nothing but

1683
01:45:54,560 --> 01:46:02,800
Speaker 1: two inch shells shot Now of those seven has sevens. Um,

1684
01:46:03,320 --> 01:46:04,439
Speaker 1: So what do you got out there? You gotta let

1685
01:46:04,439 --> 01:46:06,719
Speaker 1: a bunch of side by sides a bunch of European

1686
01:46:06,800 --> 01:46:14,400
Speaker 1: side by. I got four Churchills, and I got a

1687
01:46:16,200 --> 01:46:22,360
Speaker 1: and I have a I Mortimer, a little twenty inch guns.

1688
01:46:22,400 --> 01:46:25,200
Speaker 1: It's it's a twelve gage of ways five pounds one ounce.

1689
01:46:26,840 --> 01:46:31,280
Speaker 1: It's pretty fast. And I have a twenty gauge Churchill

1690
01:46:31,520 --> 01:46:38,559
Speaker 1: sixty engage Churchill, and I like twenty barrels. But I've

1691
01:46:38,640 --> 01:46:42,479
Speaker 1: had five or six Spanish guns, which are beautiful. Area

1692
01:46:42,720 --> 01:46:50,760
Speaker 1: is garbi a y a. I've had several Purties. I've

1693
01:46:50,800 --> 01:46:57,400
Speaker 1: had three Purties, a better boss. I had a Henry Atkins. Uh.

1694
01:46:58,439 --> 01:47:03,400
Speaker 1: You know, I'm kind of into church Chills, but English gun.

1695
01:47:04,120 --> 01:47:06,479
Speaker 1: I have an excuse why I have all these guns,

1696
01:47:06,520 --> 01:47:10,600
Speaker 1: and I and I good investments. Ben, That's what I

1697
01:47:10,680 --> 01:47:13,960
Speaker 1: tell my wife. Yeah that I have the same excuse,

1698
01:47:14,080 --> 01:47:19,639
Speaker 1: which is uh yeah, which which is probably not true,

1699
01:47:19,760 --> 01:47:21,920
Speaker 1: but well let's not let that out of the bag.

1700
01:47:23,080 --> 01:47:31,640
Speaker 1: But anyway, another reason I I actually bought purchased so

1701
01:47:31,760 --> 01:47:34,760
Speaker 1: many different guns and they're good prices and by them

1702
01:47:35,280 --> 01:47:37,479
Speaker 1: is because I like to write about him and the

1703
01:47:37,600 --> 01:47:39,720
Speaker 1: only reason the only way you can write about a

1704
01:47:39,760 --> 01:47:44,960
Speaker 1: gun is to have the gun. That's a better excuse. Okay, wait, wait,

1705
01:47:45,160 --> 01:47:48,280
Speaker 1: just repeat that for the audience. That is something to remember.

1706
01:47:48,320 --> 01:47:51,960
Speaker 1: The only way you can write about a gun is

1707
01:47:52,000 --> 01:47:55,000
Speaker 1: to have one. So later on I'll show you those

1708
01:47:55,120 --> 01:47:57,040
Speaker 1: when those leagues before we leave, I want to I

1709
01:47:57,160 --> 01:47:59,240
Speaker 1: want to give my hands on those. I can't let

1710
01:47:59,280 --> 01:48:01,559
Speaker 1: you go. I can't let this interview go by without

1711
01:48:01,600 --> 01:48:04,880
Speaker 1: talking to you about writing. Like your philosophy is on writing?

1712
01:48:05,479 --> 01:48:08,760
Speaker 1: How you craft a story? Do you have any like

1713
01:48:08,920 --> 01:48:11,400
Speaker 1: the rules that you live by for writing when you

1714
01:48:11,439 --> 01:48:13,960
Speaker 1: sit down to write something? Because I'm a writer, a

1715
01:48:14,000 --> 01:48:16,200
Speaker 1: lot of people that listen to this are writers. You

1716
01:48:16,280 --> 01:48:18,800
Speaker 1: know you have any advice for everybody about about the

1717
01:48:18,880 --> 01:48:29,719
Speaker 1: craft of writing? That's um. I was a photographer long

1718
01:48:30,000 --> 01:48:33,640
Speaker 1: long before I was a writer. And some of my

1719
01:48:34,000 --> 01:48:38,719
Speaker 1: friends like that point out journal Steve Smith and several

1720
01:48:38,840 --> 01:48:43,160
Speaker 1: guys Petrie, Tom mcgwain and a lot of those guys

1721
01:48:43,240 --> 01:48:48,680
Speaker 1: have been you how to write this stuff down? And um,

1722
01:48:51,000 --> 01:48:56,680
Speaker 1: being being in the field basically of engineering in my

1723
01:48:56,840 --> 01:49:02,320
Speaker 1: background as you know, being in biology, in and architecture

1724
01:49:02,439 --> 01:49:06,640
Speaker 1: and shop, and I can writing is something I'm more

1725
01:49:06,800 --> 01:49:14,360
Speaker 1: mechanical basically, And um, I think of my college classes,

1726
01:49:14,479 --> 01:49:19,479
Speaker 1: I skipped most of them more English, okay, but so

1727
01:49:20,760 --> 01:49:24,920
Speaker 1: my writing came very hard to me when I started.

1728
01:49:25,560 --> 01:49:31,240
Speaker 1: But I finally started. I really, I really got into it,

1729
01:49:31,400 --> 01:49:34,320
Speaker 1: I say I and I can honestly say I've worked

1730
01:49:34,400 --> 01:49:40,040
Speaker 1: extremely hard at writing. I Uh, it's not an easy

1731
01:49:40,120 --> 01:49:43,760
Speaker 1: thing to do. Um, I'm very slow at it. I

1732
01:49:43,880 --> 01:49:46,479
Speaker 1: think I'm you know, after now thirty five years of

1733
01:49:46,560 --> 01:49:49,960
Speaker 1: writing him certainly a lot, a lot better and in

1734
01:49:50,439 --> 01:49:54,240
Speaker 1: more creative. But I find it to be an excruciating process.

1735
01:49:55,200 --> 01:49:59,639
Speaker 1: It's painful to write. Everything I write is painful. I agree,

1736
01:50:00,000 --> 01:50:03,479
Speaker 1: I agree, But you know, UM I have I haven't.

1737
01:50:03,640 --> 01:50:06,599
Speaker 1: I haven't written anything in the last couple of weeks,

1738
01:50:06,680 --> 01:50:11,240
Speaker 1: and which is what's kind of about. Um. The one

1739
01:50:11,320 --> 01:50:14,800
Speaker 1: thing I do have is good discipline. I think you

1740
01:50:14,880 --> 01:50:19,720
Speaker 1: gotta have good to be a writer. UM, So I

1741
01:50:19,880 --> 01:50:22,280
Speaker 1: do I have a I use you right in the

1742
01:50:22,360 --> 01:50:28,120
Speaker 1: afternoon or I write from about like maybe one o'clock, uh,

1743
01:50:28,880 --> 01:50:32,160
Speaker 1: and tell four o'clock or so, and what if I'm

1744
01:50:32,240 --> 01:50:34,839
Speaker 1: really champed for time about write in the morning sometime.

1745
01:50:34,920 --> 01:50:36,960
Speaker 1: But there are times when I was writing a book,

1746
01:50:36,960 --> 01:50:43,360
Speaker 1: I'd write for six seven hours. Um. I rewrite a lot.

1747
01:50:44,640 --> 01:50:47,400
Speaker 1: I think I think all writers do that. You write

1748
01:50:47,400 --> 01:50:48,920
Speaker 1: it and then hate it, and then write it. That's

1749
01:50:48,960 --> 01:50:51,479
Speaker 1: part of the excruciating nature of the whole the fair,

1750
01:50:52,880 --> 01:50:56,360
Speaker 1: and it's exercise. And I should also read. I read

1751
01:50:56,400 --> 01:51:00,400
Speaker 1: all kinds of books. I don't watch television. I read.

1752
01:51:00,560 --> 01:51:04,519
Speaker 1: You can see my library. I just um, I read. Um,

1753
01:51:05,000 --> 01:51:06,599
Speaker 1: I'm gonna come over here and ask you to borrow

1754
01:51:06,680 --> 01:51:13,080
Speaker 1: books and shotguns. Okay, So I think I think writing

1755
01:51:13,200 --> 01:51:18,040
Speaker 1: is hard. And then like I said, I um, but

1756
01:51:18,160 --> 01:51:23,439
Speaker 1: I like it. I uh, and I do. I like

1757
01:51:23,640 --> 01:51:28,200
Speaker 1: to write. Um, I'll probably continue writing for quite some time.

1758
01:51:28,320 --> 01:51:32,439
Speaker 1: And when I first started running, i'd I'd write mostly

1759
01:51:32,520 --> 01:51:35,800
Speaker 1: hook and bullet stuff, you know, and that and in

1760
01:51:35,920 --> 01:51:41,559
Speaker 1: most stories. But it so happened in Cubby Rise when

1761
01:51:41,600 --> 01:51:44,679
Speaker 1: they when they approached me, I my first couple of stories.

1762
01:51:44,760 --> 01:51:47,479
Speaker 1: I write kind of hook and bullets stores. And finally,

1763
01:51:48,520 --> 01:51:53,160
Speaker 1: John the the publish owner and publisher of Cubby Rights,

1764
01:51:53,760 --> 01:51:56,160
Speaker 1: he said, Benny said, you've been doing this so long.

1765
01:51:56,240 --> 01:52:00,560
Speaker 1: He said, we want to hear you about stories. And

1766
01:52:00,680 --> 01:52:06,160
Speaker 1: I said, I have stories, I mean, and I can

1767
01:52:06,240 --> 01:52:11,120
Speaker 1: read about stories. I mean, I read about Clyde, you know,

1768
01:52:11,920 --> 01:52:14,880
Speaker 1: as a good example, going to Mongolia. I took Clyde

1769
01:52:14,920 --> 01:52:18,560
Speaker 1: to Monengolia twice, you know. And he was a little prejudice.

1770
01:52:18,640 --> 01:52:21,720
Speaker 1: He didn't like the Mongolians. He wouldn't look at him.

1771
01:52:22,000 --> 01:52:28,040
Speaker 1: I had a little talk with get it together. Yeah, um,

1772
01:52:29,000 --> 01:52:31,560
Speaker 1: Clyde was a piece of work. He was one of

1773
01:52:31,640 --> 01:52:35,960
Speaker 1: my hunting dogs. His idea of hunting was, uh, to

1774
01:52:36,080 --> 01:52:38,880
Speaker 1: go out hunting. Looked like, he's real good And the

1775
01:52:39,240 --> 01:52:42,840
Speaker 1: first time he smelled a bunny, he would never chase

1776
01:52:42,920 --> 01:52:45,000
Speaker 1: the bunny because he wasn't allowed to, so we didn't.

1777
01:52:45,439 --> 01:52:49,760
Speaker 1: Then we'd walk baby, oh maybe a hundred yards or so,

1778
01:52:49,920 --> 01:52:52,240
Speaker 1: and all of a sudden Clyde would be lost, to

1779
01:52:52,479 --> 01:52:57,519
Speaker 1: be gone. And Clyde always managed a double back okay,

1780
01:52:58,040 --> 01:52:59,840
Speaker 1: and I got it one time up in a high

1781
01:53:00,080 --> 01:53:03,639
Speaker 1: look at he doubled back. And when when bunny hunting,

1782
01:53:05,200 --> 01:53:08,320
Speaker 1: so bird dog a d D so. Clyde and I

1783
01:53:08,439 --> 01:53:14,120
Speaker 1: had a few conversations about that. He didn't care. You said, oh, well,

1784
01:53:14,240 --> 01:53:18,920
Speaker 1: what the heck? He had a good attitude. Let me

1785
01:53:19,000 --> 01:53:21,639
Speaker 1: ask you about I think it would be a nice

1786
01:53:21,720 --> 01:53:24,880
Speaker 1: way to close our chat here to ask you about

1787
01:53:25,840 --> 01:53:30,400
Speaker 1: the upland hunting culture kind of what what it is,

1788
01:53:30,439 --> 01:53:32,880
Speaker 1: because you've seen especially in this valley. But I think

1789
01:53:32,960 --> 01:53:36,280
Speaker 1: you being in the industry and having written so much

1790
01:53:36,400 --> 01:53:38,599
Speaker 1: and being connected to Covey Rise, which is a more

1791
01:53:38,880 --> 01:53:42,200
Speaker 1: modern Huntsman, which are more modern publications, and some of

1792
01:53:42,240 --> 01:53:44,759
Speaker 1: the other publications you mentioned have been around for decades.

1793
01:53:45,720 --> 01:53:48,080
Speaker 1: I would love to just hear your thoughts on how

1794
01:53:48,320 --> 01:53:52,800
Speaker 1: Upland culture has changed and grown over those fifty years

1795
01:53:52,920 --> 01:54:01,360
Speaker 1: sixty years. I certainly think that I attributed a lot

1796
01:54:01,479 --> 01:54:05,280
Speaker 1: to hunting Western game birds. There's no doubt about it.

1797
01:54:05,479 --> 01:54:09,519
Speaker 1: I mean when I first started, honey was unheard of. Uh.

1798
01:54:10,040 --> 01:54:13,559
Speaker 1: I think I think Charlie Waterman was probably the first one.

1799
01:54:14,360 --> 01:54:16,080
Speaker 1: When he came out here. I knew him quite well

1800
01:54:16,160 --> 01:54:19,240
Speaker 1: and I admired the man very much so UM and

1801
01:54:19,360 --> 01:54:22,280
Speaker 1: he was a very good, very good bird hunter. He

1802
01:54:22,400 --> 01:54:25,680
Speaker 1: was a big game hunter first, but yeah, when he

1803
01:54:25,800 --> 01:54:28,040
Speaker 1: met me, he got very interested in bird hunting. My

1804
01:54:28,160 --> 01:54:33,040
Speaker 1: kind of was a guy that that really gott him started. Uh.

1805
01:54:33,480 --> 01:54:37,520
Speaker 1: Even though he went on and I think he his writing,

1806
01:54:37,600 --> 01:54:42,000
Speaker 1: I think had a lot to to develop UH in

1807
01:54:42,440 --> 01:54:47,240
Speaker 1: in bird hunting. And I think after I think after

1808
01:54:47,440 --> 01:54:50,640
Speaker 1: the Second World War, I think there's a lot of

1809
01:54:50,880 --> 01:54:55,840
Speaker 1: people started, especially quail hunters in the South took up

1810
01:54:55,920 --> 01:55:00,800
Speaker 1: that pheasant hunters in the Midwest, and it become fairly popular. Um.

1811
01:55:01,640 --> 01:55:06,920
Speaker 1: And then I would say for hunting in the West,

1812
01:55:07,000 --> 01:55:12,400
Speaker 1: I probably put bird hunting on the map. And I'm

1813
01:55:12,440 --> 01:55:14,320
Speaker 1: not trying to take credit for you, but I'm saying

1814
01:55:14,920 --> 01:55:18,280
Speaker 1: that no need because you know, I was a fact,

1815
01:55:19,040 --> 01:55:22,080
Speaker 1: Charlie was. I was wondering instrumental, and Charlie did it

1816
01:55:22,240 --> 01:55:25,960
Speaker 1: first with his dog, was very instrumental when taking a

1817
01:55:26,040 --> 01:55:29,640
Speaker 1: lot of my bird dogs and hunting every bird in

1818
01:55:29,760 --> 01:55:33,400
Speaker 1: North America when and I think that it's guys do

1819
01:55:33,480 --> 01:55:35,880
Speaker 1: it all the time, and especially in the West too.

1820
01:55:35,960 --> 01:55:37,640
Speaker 1: And I think when I moved here, I was telling

1821
01:55:37,680 --> 01:55:39,320
Speaker 1: you before we hit record that I've been here for

1822
01:55:39,920 --> 01:55:43,080
Speaker 1: ten months or some number. And when you move here,

1823
01:55:43,160 --> 01:55:47,280
Speaker 1: you're fantalized, like fantasizing about elk and mule deer and

1824
01:55:47,360 --> 01:55:49,360
Speaker 1: all these things that are like unique to the West.

1825
01:55:49,880 --> 01:55:54,000
Speaker 1: But when I got here, I started seeing rough grouse,

1826
01:55:54,240 --> 01:56:00,400
Speaker 1: blue grouse, sage grouse, pheasants, like huns, all the birds.

1827
01:56:00,440 --> 01:56:04,440
Speaker 1: And I'm thinking it's kind of not fair because the

1828
01:56:04,480 --> 01:56:07,640
Speaker 1: West has this treasure sure of a big game species,

1829
01:56:07,720 --> 01:56:09,800
Speaker 1: but also this like you can be in the most

1830
01:56:10,160 --> 01:56:12,880
Speaker 1: We're hunting the other day, Morgan, Joe and I and

1831
01:56:12,960 --> 01:56:16,200
Speaker 1: this is look beautiful cannon. You can imagine to which

1832
01:56:16,240 --> 01:56:19,440
Speaker 1: I could see my house and we're we're able to

1833
01:56:19,560 --> 01:56:23,080
Speaker 1: flush and shoot the beautiful blue grouse. It's just like

1834
01:56:23,240 --> 01:56:28,760
Speaker 1: it's it's almost unfair. Um. I mean there's a well,

1835
01:56:29,880 --> 01:56:35,480
Speaker 1: my book Western Wings, or my revised book of Western Wings,

1836
01:56:35,800 --> 01:56:40,240
Speaker 1: as I added more birds that you know, blue growls

1837
01:56:40,400 --> 01:56:44,560
Speaker 1: are a fun bird to hunt, and people don't realize

1838
01:56:44,560 --> 01:56:48,160
Speaker 1: that they if you, if you read my book and

1839
01:56:48,240 --> 01:56:53,320
Speaker 1: study their habits, they're the only game bird that nest

1840
01:56:53,360 --> 01:56:57,000
Speaker 1: slow and move up. All the other was moved down.

1841
01:56:57,640 --> 01:57:01,400
Speaker 1: So basically September one, you can hunt them in the

1842
01:57:01,480 --> 01:57:04,520
Speaker 1: sage brush. Uh if if you know where they are.

1843
01:57:04,600 --> 01:57:06,200
Speaker 1: I mean, like you say, there are places that I

1844
01:57:06,320 --> 01:57:10,640
Speaker 1: go and then the males will go high. But then

1845
01:57:10,760 --> 01:57:14,640
Speaker 1: by what's what's around the fifteen sixt right now? So

1846
01:57:15,280 --> 01:57:18,680
Speaker 1: those young broods right now, usually the females go, the

1847
01:57:18,760 --> 01:57:21,520
Speaker 1: males are up there. The females go first single and

1848
01:57:21,600 --> 01:57:26,000
Speaker 1: then the broods go up. So where you hunted them,

1849
01:57:26,120 --> 01:57:28,800
Speaker 1: if you hunted real low last week or when you

1850
01:57:28,840 --> 01:57:32,200
Speaker 1: were hunting them, the chances are you might not find

1851
01:57:32,280 --> 01:57:33,840
Speaker 1: them there. They're going to be moving up there. We

1852
01:57:33,920 --> 01:57:36,160
Speaker 1: were up pretty high and they were up there. I

1853
01:57:36,240 --> 01:57:38,200
Speaker 1: was elk hunting a couple of days ago and they're

1854
01:57:38,240 --> 01:57:41,120
Speaker 1: just walking on the road. There was five blue grouses

1855
01:57:41,200 --> 01:57:44,560
Speaker 1: walking on the road. I think, pretty pretty high. There

1856
01:57:44,600 --> 01:57:46,560
Speaker 1: are a lot of times that I hunt there's two,

1857
01:57:46,680 --> 01:57:49,120
Speaker 1: there's three, or fair place Sas to hunting here I

1858
01:57:49,160 --> 01:57:51,800
Speaker 1: would hunt. I would shoot as many rough grouse as

1859
01:57:51,800 --> 01:57:56,440
Speaker 1: I would blue grouse, all the same thing spot. I think, Um,

1860
01:57:57,480 --> 01:58:00,520
Speaker 1: we've been going for a while here, now, is there

1861
01:58:00,600 --> 01:58:04,240
Speaker 1: a way, um, before we go, you can explain to

1862
01:58:04,360 --> 01:58:12,400
Speaker 1: people how all of this upland hunting, shotguns, dogs, breeding,

1863
01:58:12,720 --> 01:58:15,240
Speaker 1: all the things we've talked about has enriched your life

1864
01:58:15,320 --> 01:58:17,920
Speaker 1: and kind of made it better. Like, is there a

1865
01:58:18,000 --> 01:58:21,000
Speaker 1: way to articulate that to somebody that's maybe never done

1866
01:58:21,040 --> 01:58:23,400
Speaker 1: it before, since you've been doing it for longer than

1867
01:58:23,480 --> 01:58:30,360
Speaker 1: just about anyone. Um, well, I think right off, I can.

1868
01:58:30,880 --> 01:58:35,200
Speaker 1: I think it the nice thing about running dogs and

1869
01:58:36,040 --> 01:58:39,640
Speaker 1: hunting hard in huns and hunting in general. I don't

1870
01:58:39,680 --> 01:58:42,560
Speaker 1: big game hunt. I used to do it a little bit,

1871
01:58:42,640 --> 01:58:46,560
Speaker 1: but I don't care. But I think bird hunting is

1872
01:58:46,680 --> 01:58:49,720
Speaker 1: very physical if you do it, especially huns and western

1873
01:58:49,840 --> 01:58:53,720
Speaker 1: game birds very physical, and I think it's a it's

1874
01:58:53,760 --> 01:59:01,240
Speaker 1: a very good way to keep physically fit. Um, and

1875
01:59:01,400 --> 01:59:05,760
Speaker 1: I think my longetivity has something to do with my

1876
01:59:05,880 --> 01:59:11,040
Speaker 1: bird hunting and seven now and you're still how many

1877
01:59:11,120 --> 01:59:15,560
Speaker 1: days a year you think you hunt? Now? Oh, all

1878
01:59:15,600 --> 01:59:18,640
Speaker 1: depends on the weather right now. But I I hope

1879
01:59:18,720 --> 01:59:23,400
Speaker 1: to get out at least forty years, thirty forty maybe more.

1880
01:59:23,560 --> 01:59:26,000
Speaker 1: I don't anybody listening to this, let's say they don't

1881
01:59:26,080 --> 01:59:29,160
Speaker 1: have energy or time to go and do the thing

1882
01:59:29,240 --> 01:59:34,000
Speaker 1: they love, you're still still doing. I hadded I had

1883
01:59:34,360 --> 01:59:37,000
Speaker 1: one year, a couple of years I huded in fish

1884
01:59:37,240 --> 01:59:42,080
Speaker 1: two d and fifty days and I did that probably

1885
01:59:42,120 --> 01:59:44,840
Speaker 1: off not for almost ten years. And that year I

1886
01:59:45,000 --> 01:59:47,680
Speaker 1: retire from teaching. I had a hundred hundred days here

1887
01:59:47,680 --> 01:59:51,000
Speaker 1: and then I'd go hunt Kansas, Oklahoma in Texas and

1888
01:59:51,320 --> 01:59:54,960
Speaker 1: Oklahoma in New Mexico. And then I was so I'd

1889
01:59:55,000 --> 02:00:04,640
Speaker 1: start hunting September one and that wind up February. So September, October, November, December, January, February. Well,

1890
02:00:04,680 --> 02:00:06,720
Speaker 1: I'm a young man, but I've already got retirement plans.

1891
02:00:06,760 --> 02:00:10,960
Speaker 1: And they look a lot like that. Pick a pick

1892
02:00:11,000 --> 02:00:14,960
Speaker 1: an animal. I see, what's how old are you? Did now?

1893
02:00:15,160 --> 02:00:20,000
Speaker 1: Thirty three. I would have. Yeah, I used when I

1894
02:00:20,160 --> 02:00:23,600
Speaker 1: was thirty two. I could. I could take off on

1895
02:00:23,720 --> 02:00:26,000
Speaker 1: a Saturday and haunt Hans, and I could go about

1896
02:00:26,080 --> 02:00:29,520
Speaker 1: twenty five miles. There's a lot of el Connors that

1897
02:00:29,560 --> 02:00:33,120
Speaker 1: don't go twenty five many, many, many many don't. That's

1898
02:00:33,120 --> 02:00:36,840
Speaker 1: how I learned to haunt Hans. I mean just I

1899
02:00:36,920 --> 02:00:44,720
Speaker 1: could'ntry sixty five seven. I could slow down. I want

1900
02:00:44,720 --> 02:00:50,800
Speaker 1: to go about twelve maybe fourteen, but no, I well,

1901
02:00:50,920 --> 02:00:53,480
Speaker 1: let's we'll end it. But I want to I'm looking

1902
02:00:53,560 --> 02:00:55,920
Speaker 1: at your bookcase here, and I'll tell you that my

1903
02:00:56,040 --> 02:00:58,120
Speaker 1: favorite book, and I see you have one up there,

1904
02:00:58,240 --> 02:01:01,560
Speaker 1: is Tom Kelly's Tenth Legion. It's my one of my favorites.

1905
02:01:02,400 --> 02:01:05,400
Speaker 1: I just podcast with Tom a couple of months ago.

1906
02:01:05,440 --> 02:01:09,360
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, yeah, I love his book. He's in Bethezta.

1907
02:01:09,520 --> 02:01:12,560
Speaker 1: He's you know, he's getting up there in age himself,

1908
02:01:13,320 --> 02:01:16,080
Speaker 1: but he's still as sharp as attack man. He's he's

1909
02:01:16,440 --> 02:01:20,640
Speaker 1: it's it's my favorite book. It's well, there's a couple

1910
02:01:20,720 --> 02:01:24,840
Speaker 1: other different ones. Favorite is the sand Connie Almanacers my favorite.

1911
02:01:26,360 --> 02:01:31,040
Speaker 1: Tom Kelly's book probably really inspired me to hunt. I

1912
02:01:31,120 --> 02:01:35,920
Speaker 1: hunted turkeys. Uh, the good The nice thing about turkey

1913
02:01:36,000 --> 02:01:37,880
Speaker 1: hunting in the spring is you couldn't hunt any other

1914
02:01:37,960 --> 02:01:43,640
Speaker 1: game book. And I used to kind of dogs. Yeah,

1915
02:01:44,640 --> 02:01:52,200
Speaker 1: and so I just it. I hope Tom could hear this,

1916
02:01:52,360 --> 02:01:58,440
Speaker 1: because every year before I went turkey hunting, I had

1917
02:01:58,640 --> 02:02:02,800
Speaker 1: to read his me too. It was I mean, it

1918
02:02:04,120 --> 02:02:08,400
Speaker 1: was more important than even taking my shotguns to read

1919
02:02:08,520 --> 02:02:10,400
Speaker 1: his book. I can't tell you how much I agree

1920
02:02:10,440 --> 02:02:14,160
Speaker 1: with that. I he when I met with him in June.

1921
02:02:14,280 --> 02:02:17,720
Speaker 1: He's still similar, wants to go turkey out in every year.

1922
02:02:17,760 --> 02:02:20,240
Speaker 1: He's not not in the best of shape for for

1923
02:02:20,400 --> 02:02:23,320
Speaker 1: walking around, but he still has it. And he and

1924
02:02:23,760 --> 02:02:26,600
Speaker 1: uh the reason and I used to have. I used

1925
02:02:26,600 --> 02:02:28,880
Speaker 1: to be a turkey honey nut. And I haven't done.

1926
02:02:28,880 --> 02:02:33,040
Speaker 1: I mean, I there was times that I I think

1927
02:02:33,120 --> 02:02:35,440
Speaker 1: the best day I had an Eastern Monty called eight

1928
02:02:36,520 --> 02:02:40,320
Speaker 1: Gobblers in it one day and show him away. He

1929
02:02:40,400 --> 02:02:43,640
Speaker 1: just called him and they have fun. And I built

1930
02:02:43,680 --> 02:02:46,400
Speaker 1: my own turkey calls. Oh really? Oh yeah, And I've

1931
02:02:46,480 --> 02:02:48,920
Speaker 1: had all kinds of I built a lot of wooden

1932
02:02:48,920 --> 02:02:53,160
Speaker 1: turkey calls, but scratch calls. Is there another book? You know? Uh?

1933
02:02:53,280 --> 02:02:55,720
Speaker 1: San County Almanacs one. We have a shirt for this

1934
02:02:55,840 --> 02:02:59,440
Speaker 1: podcast that just says an illustration of Aldo little pulled

1935
02:02:59,480 --> 02:03:02,200
Speaker 1: on it, Um Leopold on it. With that says Aldo

1936
02:03:02,320 --> 02:03:06,720
Speaker 1: freaking Leopold on it. Because I think that book shaped

1937
02:03:06,760 --> 02:03:10,400
Speaker 1: the way I think about the outside world, like it

1938
02:03:10,560 --> 02:03:14,840
Speaker 1: just did. And then one of my favorites, and then

1939
02:03:14,920 --> 02:03:18,200
Speaker 1: that legion just not only Turkey on it, but just

1940
02:03:18,320 --> 02:03:22,160
Speaker 1: hunters how we are are are kind of weird idiots,

1941
02:03:22,200 --> 02:03:24,080
Speaker 1: the weird things that we do. Is there a book

1942
02:03:24,200 --> 02:03:26,920
Speaker 1: up there that you other than those two that you

1943
02:03:27,080 --> 02:03:30,120
Speaker 1: really think of has kind of changed your way of

1944
02:03:31,240 --> 02:03:41,720
Speaker 1: being outside because you gotta like all of I mean, well, um,

1945
02:03:43,600 --> 02:03:48,880
Speaker 1: there's there's a couple of them. Um, I can't think

1946
02:03:48,920 --> 02:03:57,640
Speaker 1: of the name. Okay, there's a there's a book that

1947
02:03:57,840 --> 02:04:02,120
Speaker 1: has nothing to do with hunting that I like, but

1948
02:04:02,240 --> 02:04:07,920
Speaker 1: I think a hunter would like it. Um it's it's

1949
02:04:08,040 --> 02:04:12,880
Speaker 1: by Gavin He was a poet. He's a poet and

1950
02:04:13,000 --> 02:04:17,520
Speaker 1: he has a good and it's called The Metal. Have

1951
02:04:17,640 --> 02:04:19,680
Speaker 1: you ever read The Metal? I have not. I have not.

1952
02:04:20,520 --> 02:04:26,400
Speaker 1: It's about three and sixty acres in a life, living

1953
02:04:27,160 --> 02:04:34,840
Speaker 1: in Wyoming, Colorado border. It's a wonderful book. Um, it's

1954
02:04:34,960 --> 02:04:39,120
Speaker 1: nothing to do with hunting, but it's a lot very

1955
02:04:40,760 --> 02:04:48,880
Speaker 1: close to my philosophy of living in the west. Ah. Um,

1956
02:04:49,520 --> 02:04:54,000
Speaker 1: other hunting books. Um, there's so many that period you've got, Like,

1957
02:04:55,280 --> 02:04:59,800
Speaker 1: I don't even see that books sheelf over there? Oh god, um,

1958
02:05:01,920 --> 02:05:04,840
Speaker 1: oh gosh. Like I said, I'm wanna come over here

1959
02:05:04,840 --> 02:05:07,360
Speaker 1: and maybe I could check them out like the library.

1960
02:05:07,720 --> 02:05:14,480
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I got I got those books, can't. I

1961
02:05:14,600 --> 02:05:19,440
Speaker 1: like his books? Grabbed that? Um see that red one

1962
02:05:19,480 --> 02:05:23,400
Speaker 1: on the right, the slide go go to the left

1963
02:05:23,400 --> 02:05:31,040
Speaker 1: a little bit further right there. Grab that. That's yeah,

1964
02:05:31,120 --> 02:05:35,360
Speaker 1: I got the I love those books. Like I said,

1965
02:05:35,360 --> 02:05:38,000
Speaker 1: when I when I think of these writers like yourself

1966
02:05:39,400 --> 02:05:43,720
Speaker 1: that kind of like typify or just embody like a

1967
02:05:44,000 --> 02:05:48,200
Speaker 1: microculture within Honting. You've got Nash Buckingham, ru Ark, yourself,

1968
02:05:48,320 --> 02:05:52,000
Speaker 1: you have time I liked writing. I think so many

1969
02:05:52,080 --> 02:05:55,960
Speaker 1: good ones. And that's that's and I'm missing some right now.

1970
02:05:56,040 --> 02:05:59,920
Speaker 1: I just can't think about what I Well, we'll call.

1971
02:06:00,080 --> 02:06:02,000
Speaker 1: We'll ask you to write an article for the Mediator

1972
02:06:02,040 --> 02:06:04,920
Speaker 1: dot com on your favorite books. About that. Now we

1973
02:06:05,000 --> 02:06:11,640
Speaker 1: can point everybody that threat there's some I liked. Oh,

1974
02:06:11,720 --> 02:06:14,240
Speaker 1: there's all kinds of books. I really Yeah, the Man

1975
02:06:14,360 --> 02:06:20,200
Speaker 1: and the Wonderful everybody should read that. I wrote as

1976
02:06:20,200 --> 02:06:24,800
Speaker 1: a good example, my dog Winston as I wrote that.

1977
02:06:25,680 --> 02:06:30,080
Speaker 1: I wrote that book also for kids. I have my

1978
02:06:30,240 --> 02:06:34,480
Speaker 1: daughter teaches fifth grade and she has her kids read

1979
02:06:34,560 --> 02:06:37,480
Speaker 1: that book. That's a great it's a great piece, and

1980
02:06:37,560 --> 02:06:40,360
Speaker 1: it's a it's a it's a nice, simple little it's

1981
02:06:40,640 --> 02:06:44,480
Speaker 1: it's nice story about a dog hunting all the birds

1982
02:06:46,520 --> 02:06:48,960
Speaker 1: and how he lived a short life. And it was

1983
02:06:49,080 --> 02:06:53,400
Speaker 1: the celebration that wasn't you know. It wasn't a memorial

1984
02:06:53,520 --> 02:06:55,440
Speaker 1: book or anything. It was just a celebration of life.

1985
02:06:55,480 --> 02:06:57,880
Speaker 1: And it seems like, you know that, being as hard

1986
02:06:57,880 --> 02:07:05,120
Speaker 1: as it is, that's the only way to approach it. Um, well, listen,

1987
02:07:05,200 --> 02:07:07,720
Speaker 1: we'll come back, come back some time and do a book.

1988
02:07:07,840 --> 02:07:12,520
Speaker 1: I like that. I like Tom mcgwayne's stuff. Yeah, fishing.

1989
02:07:12,920 --> 02:07:14,920
Speaker 1: Tom's a good friend of mine. I gave order the

1990
02:07:14,960 --> 02:07:17,880
Speaker 1: podcast with Tom recently. I have a Meti podect good

1991
02:07:17,920 --> 02:07:23,760
Speaker 1: story about loaning him a a bird dog, Abbey. I

1992
02:07:23,840 --> 02:07:26,800
Speaker 1: wrote about it. He wrote about it, and I never

1993
02:07:26,880 --> 02:07:30,760
Speaker 1: got it back. Oh I loaned him and I guess

1994
02:07:30,800 --> 02:07:33,640
Speaker 1: funny said Tom, it is your dog. He wrote the

1995
02:07:33,680 --> 02:07:37,360
Speaker 1: story about Abby. Yeah. In fact, I wrote a he

1996
02:07:37,560 --> 02:07:39,840
Speaker 1: called I wrote a part of the story, but I

1997
02:07:40,360 --> 02:07:43,120
Speaker 1: couldn't have kept getting to a better person than Tom

1998
02:07:43,440 --> 02:07:47,040
Speaker 1: Montana seems to be a good fuel for writers mcguaine,

1999
02:07:47,120 --> 02:07:50,400
Speaker 1: yourself and others you know, come here and there's something

2000
02:07:50,480 --> 02:07:52,840
Speaker 1: about it that feels a good writing well. I think

2001
02:07:53,080 --> 02:07:55,200
Speaker 1: I like Jim Harrison was a good friend of mine.

2002
02:07:56,840 --> 02:08:00,520
Speaker 1: Uh Russell Chatham did a lot of good writing. Um,

2003
02:08:02,840 --> 02:08:06,680
Speaker 1: when you talk about fishing sometime, if you ever want

2004
02:08:06,680 --> 02:08:09,840
Speaker 1: to talk about me fishing and so forth with the

2005
02:08:10,040 --> 02:08:14,880
Speaker 1: idea my some of my best fishing books. I like

2006
02:08:15,640 --> 02:08:19,600
Speaker 1: Haig Brown. Have you read Hey Brown stuff? I'm still

2007
02:08:19,680 --> 02:08:23,160
Speaker 1: head fisherman too. I'd love still head fishing. So yeah,

2008
02:08:23,200 --> 02:08:25,000
Speaker 1: we we have a whole, a whole another podcast with

2009
02:08:25,080 --> 02:08:28,320
Speaker 1: you about your fishing years and trout and limited days

2010
02:08:28,360 --> 02:08:30,440
Speaker 1: and things like that. But but I, like I said,

2011
02:08:30,440 --> 02:08:36,960
Speaker 1: I just don't. I got uh. There's another book that's

2012
02:08:37,040 --> 02:08:41,240
Speaker 1: nothing to do with hunting, Prairie Earth. Have you read that?

2013
02:08:41,520 --> 02:08:43,280
Speaker 1: I have not, But like I said, I'm gonna come

2014
02:08:43,320 --> 02:08:46,880
Speaker 1: here and check them out for it. Leehast Moon, he

2015
02:08:47,040 --> 02:08:53,760
Speaker 1: wrote Blue Highways. I like Prairie Earth is because it's

2016
02:08:53,800 --> 02:08:57,240
Speaker 1: about Kansas and about the country. I like it's not

2017
02:08:57,400 --> 02:09:00,160
Speaker 1: a social bird hunting at all, but it's there. You're

2018
02:09:00,200 --> 02:09:05,040
Speaker 1: the great duck misunderstanding. That's a wonderful I guess I'm

2019
02:09:05,080 --> 02:09:09,880
Speaker 1: just a reader. I did. I just I read all

2020
02:09:09,920 --> 02:09:14,080
Speaker 1: the himling Way stuff. I've read that over and over again.

2021
02:09:14,480 --> 02:09:18,920
Speaker 1: And you have Round River up there by Aldo right there.

2022
02:09:19,160 --> 02:09:22,880
Speaker 1: That's a good one. Yeah, I could read those forever. Um,

2023
02:09:23,760 --> 02:09:25,880
Speaker 1: well it's been it's been an honor to sit here

2024
02:09:25,920 --> 02:09:29,440
Speaker 1: and have a conversation with you. Ben. I appreciate, um

2025
02:09:29,600 --> 02:09:32,920
Speaker 1: you're taking the time number one, but also just number two. Um,

2026
02:09:33,480 --> 02:09:36,560
Speaker 1: you're writing your work. Your passion for gun dogs that

2027
02:09:36,680 --> 02:09:39,800
Speaker 1: extends over twice as long as I've been on the earth.

2028
02:09:39,840 --> 02:09:43,360
Speaker 1: I think is um inspiring to me and hopefully inspiring

2029
02:09:43,360 --> 02:09:46,680
Speaker 1: to everybody listening to this. And so thank you very

2030
02:09:46,800 --> 02:09:49,120
Speaker 1: much for all you've done. And maybe we'll get out

2031
02:09:49,160 --> 02:09:51,400
Speaker 1: and go chase some Hans one of these days. Absolutely.

2032
02:09:51,760 --> 02:09:54,000
Speaker 1: I guess I grew up on in All the Road

2033
02:09:55,440 --> 02:09:58,320
Speaker 1: the medal. I always do what I told until I

2034
02:09:58,480 --> 02:10:02,360
Speaker 1: found out that my brand. That's it. That's all episode

2035
02:10:02,360 --> 02:10:05,520
Speaker 1: eighty in the books, our Upland episode. We won't do

2036
02:10:05,600 --> 02:10:07,560
Speaker 1: any Upland episodes. There's not a whole lot of upland

2037
02:10:07,600 --> 02:10:10,760
Speaker 1: content floating around um in our media to world. So

2038
02:10:10,840 --> 02:10:12,880
Speaker 1: it's nice to talk to ben O Williams. Thank you

2039
02:10:13,000 --> 02:10:15,640
Speaker 1: so much, Ben for having us in your home. Thanks

2040
02:10:15,640 --> 02:10:19,800
Speaker 1: to Morgan Mason, Joe Fernado. Thanks to Mango for just

2041
02:10:19,920 --> 02:10:22,640
Speaker 1: being Mango. Big shouts to Mango, big shouts, sweet dog,

2042
02:10:22,760 --> 02:10:25,680
Speaker 1: Sweet Mango. We'll love you, Mango. Uh, even though I've

2043
02:10:25,720 --> 02:10:28,840
Speaker 1: never met you. I can't wait, Phil, do you ever

2044
02:10:28,920 --> 02:10:32,160
Speaker 1: bring Mango in the office. I my my wife really

2045
02:10:32,240 --> 02:10:34,480
Speaker 1: wants to, wants me to because I tell her about

2046
02:10:34,520 --> 02:10:37,400
Speaker 1: the other office dogs and how generally well behaved they

2047
02:10:37,440 --> 02:10:41,120
Speaker 1: are for how many we have running around a packet dogs? Yeah,

2048
02:10:41,160 --> 02:10:43,200
Speaker 1: and she says, you need you should expose her to

2049
02:10:43,280 --> 02:10:46,160
Speaker 1: more dogs. Yeah, Like, you're right, but that would mean

2050
02:10:46,200 --> 02:10:51,400
Speaker 1: exposing her to more dogs. Um and me, She's just yeah, exactly.

2051
02:10:52,120 --> 02:10:54,960
Speaker 1: You don't know what I'm gonna do. Yeah, you're crazy.

2052
02:10:55,800 --> 02:10:59,280
Speaker 1: I'm out there, man, I'm out there, all right. Well,

2053
02:11:00,160 --> 02:11:02,360
Speaker 1: to Mango, we'll hopefully see in the office real soon.

2054
02:11:03,160 --> 02:11:05,240
Speaker 1: And let me let me just let me just remind

2055
02:11:05,280 --> 02:11:08,920
Speaker 1: everybody before we go, uh not so sharp moments. We

2056
02:11:09,280 --> 02:11:11,120
Speaker 1: already talked about this in the opening the show, but

2057
02:11:11,200 --> 02:11:12,960
Speaker 1: we need you're not so sharp moments. We need you

2058
02:11:13,080 --> 02:11:15,600
Speaker 1: to write in to th HC at the Media dot

2059
02:11:15,680 --> 02:11:19,200
Speaker 1: Com and tell us sometimes you might have fumbled in

2060
02:11:19,320 --> 02:11:23,320
Speaker 1: the field. Uh, it's important. We're going to have lighthearted

2061
02:11:23,360 --> 02:11:27,160
Speaker 1: discussions about these moments. Bring to light failure. People on

2062
02:11:27,200 --> 02:11:29,400
Speaker 1: social media always saying all you see is success. Well

2063
02:11:29,520 --> 02:11:33,200
Speaker 1: not here at THHC. Here's the Hunting Collective, We're all

2064
02:11:33,240 --> 02:11:36,760
Speaker 1: about failure. Some people call it the Failure Podcast. Yeah,

2065
02:11:37,280 --> 02:11:40,320
Speaker 1: I've heard that. We read mean comments, we talk about

2066
02:11:40,360 --> 02:11:42,720
Speaker 1: not so sharp moments. So all those things that's coming

2067
02:11:42,760 --> 02:11:46,400
Speaker 1: real soon. That segments coming to this podcast very soon,

2068
02:11:46,560 --> 02:11:48,320
Speaker 1: so look out for it. Hopefully you can be a

2069
02:11:48,360 --> 02:11:50,000
Speaker 1: part of it by writing into th HC at the

2070
02:11:50,040 --> 02:11:54,120
Speaker 1: Media dot Com. Use your best pros, dust off those

2071
02:11:54,160 --> 02:11:58,440
Speaker 1: writing chops, and tell us a story. Is that good, Phil, Yeah,

2072
02:11:58,440 --> 02:12:00,160
Speaker 1: I'm excited to hear what people have to say. I'm

2073
02:12:00,200 --> 02:12:03,000
Speaker 1: sure there are many many not so sharp moments. I

2074
02:12:03,040 --> 02:12:06,320
Speaker 1: don't ask much of you guys, other than to buy

2075
02:12:06,440 --> 02:12:09,640
Speaker 1: products and spend hours a day, hours a week with me.

2076
02:12:09,840 --> 02:12:11,840
Speaker 1: I don't ask other than that. I asked very little

2077
02:12:11,880 --> 02:12:15,240
Speaker 1: of you. That's true, right, Yeah, but now you give

2078
02:12:15,520 --> 02:12:17,640
Speaker 1: I'm gonna give give so much. I give so much.

2079
02:12:17,720 --> 02:12:22,240
Speaker 1: You never asked. Now you're asking. Now finally, I'm asking

2080
02:12:22,280 --> 02:12:24,440
Speaker 1: you to do something for real. And that's right into

2081
02:12:24,480 --> 02:12:26,160
Speaker 1: T A c as meter dot com. I would like

2082
02:12:26,240 --> 02:12:28,640
Speaker 1: to have hundreds of emails to sift through here, thousands,

2083
02:12:29,360 --> 02:12:33,760
Speaker 1: tens of thousands, very serious about this, and so my

2084
02:12:33,920 --> 02:12:37,160
Speaker 1: plea is over. So we will see you next week.

2085
02:12:37,760 --> 02:12:39,280
Speaker 1: I will also see at t A c at me

2086
02:12:39,520 --> 02:12:47,160
Speaker 1: dot com. Thank you, Jack Daniels, number seven, Tennessee whiskey,

2087
02:12:47,240 --> 02:12:51,200
Speaker 1: got me drinking heaven and just stopped. It looks good

2088
02:12:51,360 --> 02:12:55,080
Speaker 1: to me. They're gonna have to department to the parade,

2089
02:12:58,080 --> 02:13:21,600
Speaker 1: tod Hey, I got something before we do anything else.

2090
02:13:21,600 --> 02:13:23,640
Speaker 1: I got something they need to ask your help with.

2091
02:13:24,640 --> 02:13:27,760
Speaker 1: And that's Public Lands Day. I know it's Public Lands

2092
02:13:27,840 --> 02:13:30,240
Speaker 1: months of September Lotti dop. But there's a day, a

2093
02:13:30,400 --> 02:13:35,080
Speaker 1: specific day, and that day is Saturday Septem that First Light.

2094
02:13:35,720 --> 02:13:39,280
Speaker 1: Our friends over at First Light are trying to ramp

2095
02:13:39,400 --> 02:13:42,600
Speaker 1: up the conservation donation. So if you want to go

2096
02:13:42,680 --> 02:13:45,800
Speaker 1: to w w W what's the w W stand for

2097
02:13:46,640 --> 02:13:50,200
Speaker 1: Worldwide Web? Thanks Phil, thanks for that. Uh, if you

2098
02:13:50,240 --> 02:13:52,600
Speaker 1: want to go to Worldwide Web dot first Light dot

2099
02:13:52,760 --> 02:13:56,760
Speaker 1: com they're gonna tell you how when you get there

2100
02:13:56,880 --> 02:13:59,920
Speaker 1: to help them celebrate National Public Lands Day, and that's

2101
02:14:00,040 --> 02:14:03,440
Speaker 1: by they're gonna match all the contributions made to their

2102
02:14:03,520 --> 02:14:08,440
Speaker 1: conservation partners via the first Light round up program. So

2103
02:14:09,200 --> 02:14:11,720
Speaker 1: now is the time to double your donation to the

2104
02:14:11,760 --> 02:14:15,760
Speaker 1: group's working hard to protect American wildlife and wild places,

2105
02:14:16,160 --> 02:14:20,360
Speaker 1: including t r c P, Teddy Roosevelt Conservation Partnership, back

2106
02:14:20,360 --> 02:14:24,920
Speaker 1: Country Hunters and Anglers, the q d m A, Pheasants Forever,

2107
02:14:25,280 --> 02:14:28,520
Speaker 1: and more. So go to first light dot com check

2108
02:14:28,600 --> 02:14:32,160
Speaker 1: it out. You're gonna get your donation double. They're gonna

2109
02:14:32,160 --> 02:14:34,400
Speaker 1: be putting money into conservation. You're gonna be putting money

2110
02:14:34,400 --> 02:14:39,960
Speaker 1: into conservation and everyone will be happy. Wildlife and wild

2111
02:14:40,000 --> 02:14:43,280
Speaker 1: places will thank you for it. So go and do

2112
02:14:43,400 --> 02:14:44,400
Speaker 1: it if you don't mind.