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Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grease is a seemingly happily married

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Speaker 1: man living with his wife in Scotland. Really a multiple

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Speaker 1: rapist wanted in the US. A guy seemingly who is

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Speaker 1: a fantasist aka liar who claims to be wait for it,

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Speaker 1: an Irish orphan. Well, wouldn't that explain a lot why

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Speaker 1: we can't find any correct birth certificates to match up

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Speaker 1: to Nicholas Rossy aka Nicholas Alverdian, an Irish orphan. My

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Speaker 1: rare end I mean, I see grace. This is Crime Stories.

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Speaker 1: Thanks for being with us here at Crime Stories and

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Speaker 1: on serious sex. Sem one eleven an Irish orphan? Did

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Speaker 1: he develop a brogue? I've got so many questions. I

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Speaker 1: don't even know where to start, but let's just start

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Speaker 1: at the beginning. Who is this guy? Listen?

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Speaker 2: Nicholas Alaverdian's obituary appeared on a memorial site called ever Loved.

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Speaker 2: It detailed how the man who grew up in foster

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Speaker 2: care became a Harvard graduate and a vocal critic of

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Speaker 2: Rhode Island's childcare system after suffering sexual abuse as a child.

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Speaker 2: It also detailed how Alaverdian died of Hodgkins lymphoma at

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Speaker 2: thirty two years old, leaving behind a wife and two

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Speaker 2: young children, who remained at his bedside as he died.

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Speaker 2: According to his wife, his last words were fear not

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Speaker 2: and run toward the bliss of the sun.

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Speaker 1: Okay, well, I just need to take that in. Hold on.

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Speaker 1: His last words were fear not and run toward the

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Speaker 1: bliss of the son. Hold on, fear not and run

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Speaker 1: toward the bliss of the son. Well. When that O

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Speaker 1: bit was published, immediately it was met with skepticism, including

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Speaker 1: by one of his own foster moms. Contacted by Alvarian's

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Speaker 1: biological mother, his own bio mother called the foster mom

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Speaker 1: and goes, hey, read this O bit. It sounds like

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Speaker 1: he wrote it himself. Follow the bliss of the sun again.

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Speaker 1: Let me just say my rear end. Well, mother knows

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Speaker 1: best once again, doesn't she? So what more or do

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Speaker 1: we know? Take a listen to our friend days Macket.

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Speaker 3: Crime online Nicholas Alavertian's death was alive an elaborate scheme

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Speaker 3: created by Nicholas Rossi, a man charged with sexually assaulting

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Speaker 3: a former girlfriend in or a mutah, as well as

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Speaker 3: multiple complaints against him in Rhode Island for alleged domestic violence.

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Speaker 3: Nicholas Alaverdian was born the eldest of three children. His father,

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Speaker 3: who had convictions for domestic assault and selling cocaine, left

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Speaker 3: the family three years later. According to the Providence Journal,

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Speaker 3: Alaverdian's mother, Diana, married David Rossi, an Engelbert humperting impersonator.

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Speaker 3: David Rossi, the stepfather, says at an early age, Nicholas

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Speaker 3: would hit his mother, grandmother, siblings, and wouldn't listen in school.

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Speaker 3: Ala Verdian was placed in psychiatric care where doctors diagnosed

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Speaker 3: him with narcissistic personality disorder and attention deficit disorder. After

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Speaker 3: being discharged from the treatment program, Aliverdian was returned to

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Speaker 3: his family. Briefly, he created such conflict within the family

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Speaker 3: home he was placed into the care of dcyf. As

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Speaker 3: far as Alaverdian's claims of being a Harvard scholar, he

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Speaker 3: did study comparative literature in an extension program class offered

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Speaker 3: by Harvard University, but he did not graduate. He was

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Speaker 3: administratively withdrawn from the course when the university learned of

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Speaker 3: his sex vendor status. After faking his death, alavertian headed overseas.

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Speaker 1: That's so much information I'm drinking from the fire hydrant

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Speaker 1: what I've written that first of all, to Tim White

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Speaker 1: joining us out of Providence, Rhode Island, investigative reporter and

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Speaker 1: managing editor w PRTV, that CBS affiliate, co author of

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Speaker 1: The Last Good Heist, and professor journalism Roger Williams University.

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Speaker 1: Tim White, first of all, critical, who is an Engelbert

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Speaker 1: humperdick impersonator.

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Speaker 4: Well, that was his stepfather, whose name he adopted after

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Speaker 4: his mother remarried at the time. I mean, as you

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Speaker 4: could hear from his biography, unconventional childhood, I think to

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Speaker 4: put it mildly and lightly, including the profession of his

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Speaker 4: stepfather and one in which he found himself in and

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Speaker 4: out of the child welfare system here in Rhode Island,

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Speaker 4: where he alleged physical and mental abuse while being under

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Speaker 4: the state's custody.

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Speaker 1: He's a liar. He is a narcissistic liar. So am

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Speaker 1: I supposed to believe that did that really happen? Maybe?

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Speaker 1: But maybe not? And I do know this isn't it true,

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Speaker 1: Jim White that he would hit his mother and his grandmother.

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Speaker 1: Of course, his siblings he misbehaved in school, but hitting

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Speaker 1: your own mom and your grandma, right, that.

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Speaker 4: Is what the stepfather alleged at the time, that he

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Speaker 4: was a tough kid who would fly off the handle.

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Speaker 4: And look, there is well, there are arrests for domestic

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Speaker 4: violence here in Rhode Island, where he was he pled

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Speaker 4: no contest, no local tendre to charges that he was

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Speaker 4: physical with a girlfriend in a suburb of Providence. So

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Speaker 4: there's definitely allegations and there's also a conviction of being

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Speaker 4: physically violent with people in his orbit.

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Speaker 1: Jim White, can I just clarify when you say he

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Speaker 1: was quote physical with a girlfriend, you mean he beater?

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Speaker 5: Yes, correct?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, Okay, what about being a quote Harvard scholar. They

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Speaker 1: kicked him out of the program, which I'd like to

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Speaker 1: point out as an extension program, which means you're an

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Speaker 1: extended distance away from the school. But they Harvard kicked

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Speaker 1: him out when they found out he was a sex offender.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, they did. I mean, look, it's clear from the

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Speaker 4: evidence that he tried to exaggerate his resume when he

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Speaker 4: was trying to particularly when he was trying to push

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Speaker 4: his agenda here in Rhode Island with state lawmakers a

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Speaker 4: lot of them who bought the story that he was

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Speaker 4: selling he was trying to reform the state child agency,

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Speaker 4: and he would hold up this this resume that he

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Speaker 4: had that he was a Harvard scholar and all that

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Speaker 4: that was obviously a lie. He didn't graduate from Harvard.

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Speaker 4: He definitely pushed the envelope on that one. And I

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Speaker 4: think you bring up an important question Earlier. You wondered

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Speaker 4: if the allegations he made against the state Child Welfare

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Speaker 4: Agency were even legit. Now that lawsuit was dismissed, and

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Speaker 4: it was dismissed because as of many as you know,

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Speaker 4: many lawsuits are dismissed because they were settled, and I

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Speaker 4: believe he had told family members it was settled for

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Speaker 4: about seventy thousand dollars, not a big number, but the

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Speaker 4: child Welfare agency denied any wrongdoing and set as part

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Speaker 4: of the agreement in the settlement that they did not

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Speaker 4: admit to any wrongdoing.

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Speaker 5: So I think you're.

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Speaker 4: Right to question whether or not the allegations he made

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Speaker 4: against DCYF were actually legitimate considering what we know now.

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Speaker 1: So I'm trying to figure out how Nikolas al Avernion

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Speaker 1: aka Nick Rossi ends up pretending to be an Irish

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Speaker 1: orphan in Scotland when he's got a slew of rape

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Speaker 1: allegations and violence allegations back in the US, all the

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Speaker 1: way to orem Utah. But first of all he had

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Speaker 1: to register as a sex offender Listen.

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Speaker 2: Nicholas Alaverdian, using the name Rossi, was accused of assaulting

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Speaker 2: a young woman he met at Sinclair Community College in Ohio.

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Speaker 2: The two had lunch together. Alaverdian offered to walk the

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Speaker 2: co ed to her next class, and she agreed. The

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Speaker 2: co ed claims Alaverdian pinned her against a wall in

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Speaker 2: a basement, groped her, and masturbated. Alaverdian apologized and asked

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Speaker 2: the girl not to tell anybody. She made a police report,

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Speaker 2: and Alaverdian aka Rossi, was convicted of public indecency and

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Speaker 2: sexual imposition and was required to register as a sex offender.

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Speaker 1: To Brett Brown, joining US Executive director of sasst GO

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Speaker 1: Surviving Assault, Standing Strong to eradicate abuse, trafficking and violence

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Speaker 1: against women, Brett Brown, thank you for being with us.

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Speaker 1: That's why a lot of women never go forward with

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Speaker 1: rape or sex assault allegations. They almost universally somehow feel

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Speaker 1: like it's in some way their fault. Like this young

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Speaker 1: woman just twenty one was at Sinclair Community College and

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Speaker 1: she allowed him to walk her to her next class. Yes,

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Speaker 1: and I'm sure at some point felt, well, that's my

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Speaker 1: fault because I let them want me to class. It's

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Speaker 1: not her fault. And I think he got off really

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Speaker 1: lightly on that.

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Speaker 6: I totally agree. We see women universally as survivors feeling

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Speaker 6: obligated to be nice and to be kind, and when

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Speaker 6: they do that and they are then abused or assaulted,

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Speaker 6: they blame themselves because they feel like they gave him

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Speaker 6: permission to behave that way.

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Speaker 1: And then if you are angry about it, then you're

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Speaker 1: a quote man hater and you're frigid and you're cold

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Speaker 1: because you don't like to be assaulted. And it makes

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Speaker 1: me wonder, Brett Brown, if that was his demo at

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Speaker 1: the time, how many other women never came forward?

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Speaker 6: Yes, because what he did was brazen, and while in

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Speaker 6: a relatively private space in the building, in a public

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Speaker 6: space during the day, he was very emboldened at this point.

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Speaker 6: So I would think there are probably many women who

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Speaker 6: have not come forward.

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Speaker 1: I mean, the reality is isn't this true, Brett Brown?

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Speaker 1: Everyone would be very surprised to find out who that

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Speaker 1: they know has been molested or sex assaulted and have

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Speaker 1: never breathed a word of it.

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Speaker 6: Absolutely, we see it all the time across the country.

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Speaker 6: Statistics alone show that one in four women will be

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Speaker 6: abuse for assaulted in their lifetime. So yes, they're all

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Speaker 6: around us.

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Speaker 1: Time stories with me. It's a grease wait for it,

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Speaker 1: I'm going to tie this together, or Tim White's going

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Speaker 1: to tie it together. The Irish orphan living in Scotland

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Speaker 1: who faked his own death and then as bio mom

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Speaker 1: reads his obit and goes, uh uh, he's not dead.

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Speaker 1: He wrote this. I guarantee you he wrote this. You

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Speaker 1: know that reminds me of Let me go out to

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Speaker 1: Greg Algrin joining us out of Laredo, international lawyer at

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Speaker 1: disruis dot com. Greg, do you remember, of course you do,

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Speaker 1: the unibomber sure who wrote this huge manifesto thousands and

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Speaker 1: thousands of words and insisted that it be published. I

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Speaker 1: guess it was in the New York Times and his

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Speaker 1: brother read it and went, wait, that's take as Inskey,

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Speaker 1: that's my brother. I know who wrote that, And his

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Speaker 1: own ridiculous manifesto gave a way that he's a unibomber

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Speaker 1: and it's take is insky.

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Speaker 7: I see some parallels for sure.

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Speaker 1: This guy writes his oh bit it is biommeos. I

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Speaker 1: know he ain't dead, He's alive. Why is it that

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Speaker 1: so often criminals give themselves away in this manner?

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Speaker 7: It's that narcissistic attention seeking personality they have, since it's

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Speaker 7: their their fatal weakness.

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Speaker 1: Hey, Greg Augrin, are you a psychologist as well as

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Speaker 1: a lawyer, because I hear you throwing around psychological just orders.

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Speaker 7: Are you No?

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Speaker 1: I'm not either, But I know what narcissism means because

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Speaker 1: I actually had to teach well, I wanted to teach

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Speaker 1: Greek and Roman mythology while I was waiting to find

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Speaker 1: out if I was going to get into law school.

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Speaker 1: And everyone knows about narcissus, but we just so happened

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Speaker 1: to have a forensic psychologist with us. Author of Dark Sides,

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Speaker 1: doctor Jeff Kalshewski, Doctor Jeff, what is a narcissist? I mean,

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Speaker 1: I know Greg Algrin is correct, but explain that narcissus

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Speaker 1: saw his image in a pool of water, fell in

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Speaker 1: love with himself, didn't notice anything else around him, anything

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Speaker 1: or anyone, and finally was trying to get to himself

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Speaker 1: and fell in the water and died.

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Speaker 8: Wow, we only have an hour to talk about narcissism

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Speaker 8: crime hit me and.

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Speaker 1: Hit me hard on ROSSI.

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Speaker 8: Oh boy, So again, how many times do we talk

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Speaker 8: about some of these criminals, and particularly when we do

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Speaker 8: programs on murderers where narcissism ends up being the flaw

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Speaker 8: that trips them up. Again, we could talk about this

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Speaker 8: for days. I need to put a video on my

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Speaker 8: YouTube channel on forensic psychology about narcissism and murders. Because

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Speaker 8: narcissists think that they're more brilliant than anyone else. Narcissists

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Speaker 8: believe that what they do is right, and they have

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Speaker 8: typically absolutely no insight into what they're doing others may

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Speaker 8: judge as inappropriate, wrong, or that they might get caught.

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Speaker 8: They are the center of the universe and what they

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Speaker 8: do is right, and that the world does not appreciate

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Speaker 8: that and actually sanctions them arrests them is just unfathomable.

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Speaker 4: You know.

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Speaker 8: In the early days when they began to write about

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Speaker 8: narcissism in the psychiatric literature, they actually initially called it

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Speaker 8: a psychosis because the people that were writing about just

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Speaker 8: could not believe that people who were so narcissistic didn't

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Speaker 8: even recognize that their ideas about themselves and the world

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Speaker 8: were flawed and they were really not consistent with the

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Speaker 8: reality around them, So they started to talk about it

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Speaker 8: initially as a psychosis.

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Speaker 1: You know who I think was a narcissist is a narcissist,

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Speaker 1: doctor Kalischewski. And I almost hate to bring his name up,

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Speaker 1: but he's the poster boy for so many things that

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Speaker 1: are all wrong. Scott Peterson, Oh, yeah, as you know,

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Speaker 1: I was going to say that because I mean, granted,

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Speaker 1: some people, not me, of course, think he's attractive. I

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Speaker 1: think he looks like the devil. But that said, he

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Speaker 1: has this beautiful wife, Lacey. She's expecting their first baby

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Speaker 1: around Christmas. So he naturally goes and has sex affairs,

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Speaker 1: not just one, but many, and then lies about it,

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Speaker 1: kills her and tries to pretend that he was in Brussels. No,

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Speaker 1: it was Paris, France on New Year's Eve with his

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Speaker 1: friend Pierre and Jacques. Yeah, and the lying and when

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Speaker 1: he went on the run after dyeing his hair blonde.

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Speaker 1: That's certainly not a felony. He had a bunch of

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Speaker 1: I think it was condoms in viagra. He needed that

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Speaker 1: to go on the run. I mean, everything was about

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Speaker 1: him and what would suit him and his desires, and

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Speaker 1: it cost the life of Lacy and her unborn child.

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Speaker 1: Connor would that be indicative of narcissism? Doctor Jeff Kelschewski.

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Speaker 8: Right, narcissism and lying. So narcissists, they inno sense believed

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Speaker 8: their own lives, and they can't even fathom the idea

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Speaker 8: that other people would not believe their lives. How many

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Speaker 8: times have we looked at these cases and these allies

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Speaker 8: are just so egregious and so odd that any national

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Speaker 8: person would know their lives. But to the narcissist, they

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Speaker 8: can't even fathom the idea that you would think they're lying?

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Speaker 1: How dare you? How dare you not believe I'm an

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Speaker 1: Irish orphan, not a sex predator, even though my DNA

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Speaker 1: matches up to a rap kid. But that said, let's

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Speaker 1: plow forward. I mean an Irish orphan, as I always

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Speaker 1: like to say, being part Irish. If you're lucky enough

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Speaker 1: to be Irish, you lucky enough. But this guy is

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Speaker 1: neither an Orphan nor Irish, and he ends up in

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Speaker 1: Scotland under a different name, adamantly denying that he is

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Speaker 1: Nicholas Alverdian. Okay, let me get us back on track

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Speaker 1: after leading you out in the weeds. Take a listen

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Speaker 1: to this.

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Speaker 9: Two years later, police are called to an apartment in

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Speaker 9: Rhode Island by the friend of a woman involved in

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Speaker 9: a relationship with Nicholas Alaverdian. When police arrive, they hear

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Speaker 9: arguing and screaming. When the woman comes to the door,

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Speaker 9: she has marks on her face and in left eye,

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Speaker 9: and her right eye is swelling. The woman tells police

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Speaker 9: she and Olivertian were arguing and when she tried to leave,

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Speaker 9: he slapped her in the face. Police arrest Olivertian, who

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Speaker 9: proclaims his innocence and begins banging his head on the

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Speaker 9: bars in the back of the squad car. Officers have

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Speaker 9: to use pepper spray to make him stop trying to

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Speaker 9: hurt himself. Alavertian pleads no contest to domestic simple assault.

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Speaker 1: You know anybody on this panel, please jump in, but

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Speaker 1: let's see Tim White. Do you have children?

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Speaker 5: I do?

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Speaker 1: Has one ever thrown a fit? You know, on TV

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Speaker 1: you see them lying in the floor and there Tommy

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Speaker 1: kicking and screaming. You ever seen that? Has any of

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Speaker 1: your children ever had a fit?

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Speaker 4: Yeah, they're keen now, But when they were toddlers that, yeah,

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Speaker 4: sure that would happen.

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Speaker 1: Okay, well whenever. They didn't do it very often, but

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Speaker 1: the very few times, I think, maybe only once, each

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Speaker 1: one of them had a quote fit as we call

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Speaker 1: it down South. And I didn't spank then with yell

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Speaker 1: of them. I just stood there and watched them. With Lucy,

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Speaker 1: I actually started laughing because when she finished her fit

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Speaker 1: in the floor, she poked her lips out like you would.

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Speaker 1: I've never seen lips poke out that far, as my

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Speaker 1: grandmother would say, you're poking your lips out so far

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Speaker 1: I could plan a road with turnips on him. Yeah. So,

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Speaker 1: And that set me into laughter, which you're not supposed

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Speaker 1: to do when a child throws a fit, because that

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Speaker 1: infuriates them further to be laughed at. But this is

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Speaker 1: what he's doing. He gets in the back. First of all,

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Speaker 1: he has an argument with the friend of the woman

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Speaker 1: that he's dating because she's not agreeing with everything he says,

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Speaker 1: and he beats her, he beats her, and then when

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Speaker 1: police show up and put him in the squad car,

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Speaker 1: he throws a fit and starts banging his head. I

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Speaker 1: think I would have just let him bang his head

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Speaker 1: for Pete's sake, but they stopped him with pepper spray,

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Speaker 1: and he pleads, this is what I hate, Tim White,

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Speaker 1: no contest, as you said earlier, Nolo contender to that.

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Speaker 1: In other words, I didn't I'm not saying I did it,

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Speaker 1: and I'm not saying I didn't do it. I'm just

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Speaker 1: not contesting it, and I'll take my punishment. Remember what's

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Speaker 1: critical to me right here, Tim White, is this is

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Speaker 1: two years after he pushes this woman against the wall

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Speaker 1: in the basement, gropes her private pars and in masturbates

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Speaker 1: class all the way. Keep it classy, Rassi. Now he's

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Speaker 1: beating up a woman who is known to him, just

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Speaker 1: two years later. I don't know what he's done in

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Speaker 1: the meantime, but now there's that.

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Speaker 5: Yeah.

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Speaker 4: Look, he had a pattern of we know, violent behavior,

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Speaker 4: particularly against women, and at the time that that arrest happened,

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Speaker 4: we now know there were other allegations against him. I'm

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Speaker 4: sure you'll get to in Utah and just to bring

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Speaker 4: up something you said earlier, the rape, correct, well, two

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Speaker 4: rapes in Utah. And then there was you know, of

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Speaker 4: course the sexual assault you already talked about in Ohio,

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Speaker 4: but court documents that were unsealed in Utah now giving

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Speaker 4: us a lens into other allegations that had happened in

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Speaker 4: four other states. We already talked about Ohio, Utah, Massachusetts,

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Speaker 4: Rhode Island of you know, people accusing him of a

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Speaker 4: pattern of sexual assault, and in the court documents that

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Speaker 4: even talked about kidnapping. So those haven't been adjudicated. There

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Speaker 4: are two charges out of Utah, there's a conviction out

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Speaker 4: of Ohio. You talked about the conviction in Patucket. But

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Speaker 4: clearly investigators are looking at other allegations that are happening.

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Speaker 4: And there's even one in We didn't even talk about

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Speaker 4: the one in the UK, they were investigating an allegation

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Speaker 4: of sexual assault.

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Speaker 1: Okay, hold on, I now realize I've got to make

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Speaker 1: a list. Okay, Tim White, I'm going to have to

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Speaker 1: make a list. Okay, We've got a right allegation in UK,

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Speaker 1: We've got Utah or Utah, we have Pawtucket. Okay, what else?

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Speaker 4: So you have the conviction in Ohio that you've talked

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Speaker 4: about quite a bit. And there are two charges out

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Speaker 4: of Utah, one out of Utah County and one out

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Speaker 4: of Salt Lake City County.

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Speaker 1: And we're learning that a woman has just come forward

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Speaker 1: claiming that two years earlier she was assaulted by Alvertian

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Speaker 1: aka Nick Rossi, the Irish orphan when she was just eighteen.

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Speaker 1: But hold on, let's plow forward, because I can't wait

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Speaker 1: to get to him claiming he's an Irish orphan in

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Speaker 1: Scotland and pretending he's not Alvertian. So he's got the

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Speaker 1: masturbating on the woman. Now, he's got the beating of

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Speaker 1: the girlfriend's friend and showing out in the cop car.

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Speaker 1: But somehow he managed to get a wife. Okay, listen.

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Speaker 3: Nicholas oliverti And married in November of twenty ten. His

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Speaker 3: wife filed for divorce six months later and filed a

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Speaker 3: police report saying she had a restraining order against him,

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Speaker 3: but Olivertian wouldn't leave her alone and repeatedly called her

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Speaker 3: police initiate an arrest warrant for violation of a protection.

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Speaker 3: Olivertian's second marriage lasted one month longer than his first

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Speaker 3: with his second wife filing for divorce after seven months,

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Speaker 3: A temporary restraining order against Olivertian is put in place,

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Speaker 3: but at court rules, he violated it when he took

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Speaker 3: all the household items and furnishings out of the marital residence.

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Speaker 3: The Providence General reported Alaverdian owed his ex wife fifty

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Speaker 3: two thousand dollars.

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Speaker 1: What a horse's rear end. There's a lot of other

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Speaker 1: Latin phrases for that, like jack. But not only does

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Speaker 1: he meet the woman, it's his second wife to follow

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Speaker 1: tro against him, but then he takes all the furniture

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Speaker 1: and high household items when he leaves. He's like take that.

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Speaker 1: He takes all the stuff after he scares the woman

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Speaker 1: out of her skin. I mean, it never ends with

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Speaker 1: this guy, hey, doctor Jeff Kalshewski. So many crimes result

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Speaker 1: from a tumultuous relationship, and the party's own always blame

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Speaker 1: each other when you have so many people pointing the

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Speaker 1: finger at you, as I love to argue to jury's

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Speaker 1: all these women are lying and Alverdian is the only

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Speaker 1: one telling the truth. He's got two wives, one foster

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Speaker 1: divorce after six months, one after seven months. Staying power.

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Speaker 1: You've got women claiming rape, assault, masturbating on them. What

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Speaker 1: they're all lying except for him, Doctor Jeff Kelshewski.

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Speaker 8: Right, again, we're talking about this whole narcissistic aspect of

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Speaker 8: this person. We're talking about likely a personality disorder. And

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Speaker 8: they actually again they sort of believe their own lives

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Speaker 8: and the mass conspiracy of all these women from all old.

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Speaker 1: Now, okay, look, I know you're educated in this and

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Speaker 1: I am totally ignorant, but let me just go ahead

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Speaker 1: and argue with you. Anyway. I think he knows he's lying.

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Speaker 1: I don't think he believes this for one minute. I

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Speaker 1: think his effrontery is that he's angry other people won't

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Speaker 1: believe his lies because he's got all his spaces covered

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Speaker 1: like oj Simpson, what oh?

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Speaker 8: I think? Yeah, I think you're out of something. He

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Speaker 8: might He might know he's lying, and again, like you said,

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Speaker 8: be angry that other people can't accept what he says

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Speaker 8: is believed, even if he knows it's a lion self.

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Speaker 1: So here he goes. He's also a deadbeat not paying

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Speaker 1: the Why that he owes all that money to you

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Speaker 1: for stealing the furniture. He just skips town. He leaves

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Speaker 1: Ohio and moves to your jurisdiction. Tim White, Rhode Island,

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Speaker 1: But the beat goes on. Take a listen to Sidney

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Speaker 1: Sumner Crime Online.

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Speaker 9: In twenty seventeen, the Bureau of Justice assistants the BGA

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Speaker 9: awarded the Commission on Criminal and Juvenile Justice over two

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Speaker 9: million dollars for Utah to process the backlog of untested

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Speaker 9: sexual assault kits in the state. In twenty eighteen, one

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Speaker 9: of the UTAH kits that was originally filed in two

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Speaker 9: two thousand and eight was tested and matched Nicholas Olivertian's

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Speaker 9: DNA from the two thousand and eight Ohio sexual assault case.

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Speaker 9: A sealed arrest warrant was issued in September twenty twenty

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Speaker 9: for Nicholas Rossi Aliverdian. But that's not all the police

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Speaker 9: were looking at him for. The FBI was investigating him

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Speaker 9: for fraud. One of Alaverdian's foster parents, Sharon Lane, notified

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Speaker 9: authorities that Alaverdian opened up twenty two different credit cards

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Speaker 9: in her husband's name and rang up nearly two hundred

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Speaker 9: thousand dollars in debt.

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Speaker 1: What is it with this guy? What about it? Tim

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Speaker 1: that's a lot of money. Two hundred thousand dollars in

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Speaker 1: debt acually opens up credit cards. Is somebody else's name.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, it's a lot of money. I mean, look, he is.

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Speaker 4: And that's not the only one you've already touched on

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Speaker 4: another in which he allegedly owed in ex ife fifty

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Speaker 4: two thousand dollars. There's spen other allegations of financial fraud

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Speaker 4: by Rossi or Alaverdian, whatever name you want to choose,

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Speaker 4: that he goes by at the time. And look, I

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Speaker 4: think it all feeds into what doctor Jeff was talking

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Speaker 4: about earlier in the program, sort of this narcissism that

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Speaker 4: it's him against the world. He's the victim in all

431
00:27:10,960 --> 00:27:14,080
Speaker 4: these cases. That's the type of image that he has

432
00:27:14,160 --> 00:27:17,760
Speaker 4: always portrayed when he again thrust himself into the spotlight

433
00:27:18,119 --> 00:27:22,359
Speaker 4: here in Rhode Island to accuse the the child welfare

434
00:27:22,400 --> 00:27:27,560
Speaker 4: agency of wrongdoing over all that time, and we saw

435
00:27:27,560 --> 00:27:33,720
Speaker 4: it firsthand as reporters when he allegedly died. The news

436
00:27:33,720 --> 00:27:36,560
Speaker 4: agencies weren't running the o bit because there's old saying

437
00:27:36,560 --> 00:27:39,000
Speaker 4: in journalism, Nancy, if your mother says she loves you,

438
00:27:39,200 --> 00:27:42,719
Speaker 4: check it out. And this was something that you have

439
00:27:42,800 --> 00:27:46,200
Speaker 4: to do when you're looking into the allegation that this

440
00:27:46,560 --> 00:27:50,439
Speaker 4: semi high profile figure in this market had died. And

441
00:27:50,520 --> 00:27:54,399
Speaker 4: we started getting very angry emails from someone claiming to

442
00:27:54,520 --> 00:27:58,560
Speaker 4: be his wife, saying that we're dishonoring his memory by

443
00:27:58,600 --> 00:28:01,720
Speaker 4: not blah blah blah. And it's clear to us now

444
00:28:01,760 --> 00:28:05,320
Speaker 4: that that was more likely than not Alabertian emailing us.

445
00:28:05,160 --> 00:28:07,840
Speaker 1: Directly pretending to be the wife. I mean, this guy,

446
00:28:07,960 --> 00:28:10,640
Speaker 1: I'm telling you, and very shortly, I'm going to bring

447
00:28:10,640 --> 00:28:15,080
Speaker 1: you on a special guest. Erv Brandt, who travels the world,

448
00:28:15,720 --> 00:28:18,880
Speaker 1: is basically a bounty hunter. He doesn't like that term,

449
00:28:19,240 --> 00:28:24,399
Speaker 1: but he's with the US Marshall Service senior inspector and

450
00:28:24,400 --> 00:28:26,280
Speaker 1: he can tell you anything you want to know about

451
00:28:26,320 --> 00:28:33,479
Speaker 1: bringing people just like Nick Rossi aka Alavertian home. Now, okay,

452
00:28:33,960 --> 00:28:37,960
Speaker 1: we dropped off with I mean, there's so many places

453
00:28:37,960 --> 00:28:40,720
Speaker 1: to drop off. He just charged the quarter million dollars

454
00:28:40,960 --> 00:28:47,440
Speaker 1: on one of his foster mom's husband's credit card. Thanks mom,

455
00:28:48,440 --> 00:28:51,440
Speaker 1: But that's not really the worst of it. Listen to

456
00:28:52,800 --> 00:28:55,600
Speaker 1: Nicole Parton at Crime Stories.

457
00:28:55,680 --> 00:29:00,280
Speaker 2: In the meantime, Alavertian continued his sex assault ways twenty

458
00:29:00,280 --> 00:29:04,320
Speaker 2: six year old woman online, identified only as the initials MS.

459
00:29:04,640 --> 00:29:07,360
Speaker 2: They dated for two months. She loaned him money, but

460
00:29:07,400 --> 00:29:10,400
Speaker 2: he didn't pay it back. MS says he locked her

461
00:29:10,440 --> 00:29:13,200
Speaker 2: in the bedroom, forced himself on top of her, and

462
00:29:13,320 --> 00:29:17,240
Speaker 2: raped her. Utah authorities now say Alaverdian also raped his

463
00:29:17,320 --> 00:29:20,720
Speaker 2: twenty one year old former girlfriend in Orum, Utah in

464
00:29:20,760 --> 00:29:23,760
Speaker 2: the same year with the same method. He promised to

465
00:29:23,760 --> 00:29:26,920
Speaker 2: repay money, lured the woman, who has not been named

466
00:29:26,920 --> 00:29:29,720
Speaker 2: by authorities, back to his apartment, and raped her.

467
00:29:29,960 --> 00:29:35,760
Speaker 1: Similar actually not similar fingerprint crimes, same modus operandim method

468
00:29:35,800 --> 00:29:40,480
Speaker 1: of operation. And I find it really interesting. And I'm

469
00:29:40,600 --> 00:29:44,840
Speaker 1: sure that Greg Algren, high profile lawyer joining us out

470
00:29:44,840 --> 00:29:49,360
Speaker 1: of Laredo, we'll want to weigh in on this. Earlier,

471
00:29:49,400 --> 00:29:54,120
Speaker 1: we heard from investigator reporter Sidney Sumner that the Justice

472
00:29:54,120 --> 00:29:59,959
Speaker 1: Bureau awarded two million dollars to process old rape kit.

473
00:30:00,840 --> 00:30:03,320
Speaker 1: They were just sitting on the shelf and there wasn't

474
00:30:03,440 --> 00:30:07,040
Speaker 1: enough time or money to process them all to catch

475
00:30:07,080 --> 00:30:11,760
Speaker 1: the purpse with DNA. It reminds me of Eliza Fletcher,

476
00:30:12,520 --> 00:30:15,920
Speaker 1: the Memphis mom who went out jogging early in the morning.

477
00:30:16,480 --> 00:30:22,920
Speaker 1: She was raped and murdered by a rapist. Kleiotha abstin

478
00:30:24,240 --> 00:30:26,080
Speaker 1: and in that case, there was a rape kit just

479
00:30:26,080 --> 00:30:30,000
Speaker 1: sitting on the shelf. It had not been analyzed. Everybody

480
00:30:30,000 --> 00:30:33,520
Speaker 1: blames the crime lab, but the crime lab can only

481
00:30:33,560 --> 00:30:36,800
Speaker 1: work x number of hours. They need more people and

482
00:30:36,840 --> 00:30:39,520
Speaker 1: more money to keep up with all the rape kits

483
00:30:39,520 --> 00:30:44,240
Speaker 1: and the crimes. But instead we're spending the taxpayers money

484
00:30:44,240 --> 00:30:47,240
Speaker 1: doing so many other things. That's a whole other can

485
00:30:47,240 --> 00:30:51,440
Speaker 1: of worms. But if Kleiotha Abston had been behind bars

486
00:30:52,000 --> 00:30:54,960
Speaker 1: as he should have been on a rape then Eliza

487
00:30:55,080 --> 00:30:58,440
Speaker 1: Fletcher would be alive with her children right now. But no,

488
00:31:00,240 --> 00:31:02,760
Speaker 1: the good news out of this is because of that

489
00:31:02,800 --> 00:31:08,200
Speaker 1: two million dollar grant, This guy Nick Rossi aka Alaverdian's

490
00:31:08,280 --> 00:31:15,280
Speaker 1: DNA pops up. He is the rapist according to diox

491
00:31:15,320 --> 00:31:19,200
Speaker 1: Saraibo ni Klake Acid. In the meantime, we've got two

492
00:31:19,320 --> 00:31:26,000
Speaker 1: more sex assault victims rape victims, samemo. But then what happens?

493
00:31:26,200 --> 00:31:27,400
Speaker 1: Take a listen to Dave mac.

494
00:31:27,600 --> 00:31:30,480
Speaker 3: The death of Nicholas Olivertian was met with skepticism by

495
00:31:30,520 --> 00:31:32,880
Speaker 3: those in law enforcement, and in July of twenty twenty,

496
00:31:33,000 --> 00:31:36,280
Speaker 3: the Rhode Island State Police opened an investigation. As the

497
00:31:36,360 --> 00:31:40,360
Speaker 3: investigation began Oliverdian's foster mother, Sharon Lane, said she was

498
00:31:40,440 --> 00:31:43,960
Speaker 3: contacted by Aliverdian's biological mother who asked her to check

499
00:31:44,000 --> 00:31:47,760
Speaker 3: out the obituary. The minute Sharon Lane read the obituary

500
00:31:47,880 --> 00:31:50,520
Speaker 3: with all of the adulatory comments, she believed it was

501
00:31:50,560 --> 00:31:53,240
Speaker 3: written by Olivertian himself and that he faked his death.

502
00:31:53,760 --> 00:31:57,680
Speaker 3: Utah authorities continued investigating the first rape allegation against Nicholas

503
00:31:57,720 --> 00:32:01,320
Speaker 3: Olavertian and issued a warrant for his the rest seven

504
00:32:01,400 --> 00:32:04,719
Speaker 3: months after he supposedly died. An FBI search of oll

505
00:32:04,760 --> 00:32:08,120
Speaker 3: of Verdian's iCloud account and cell phone records led investigators

506
00:32:08,280 --> 00:32:09,520
Speaker 3: to Scotland.

507
00:32:22,400 --> 00:32:28,360
Speaker 1: Time Stories with Nancy Grease. IRV brand joining me, Senior Inspector,

508
00:32:28,440 --> 00:32:34,400
Speaker 1: US Marshall Service, International Investigations, Chief Inspector DOJ, Office of

509
00:32:34,480 --> 00:32:39,360
Speaker 1: International Affairs, author of Solo Shot, Curse of the Bluestone

510
00:32:39,600 --> 00:32:44,480
Speaker 1: and Flying Solo, Top of the World. It's about his

511
00:32:44,600 --> 00:32:49,640
Speaker 1: books are about this character, the swashbuckling character Jack Solo,

512
00:32:49,800 --> 00:32:57,120
Speaker 1: who has a striking similarity to IRV Brandt. So IRV Brandt,

513
00:32:58,760 --> 00:33:01,760
Speaker 1: it's not good when seven months after you quote die

514
00:33:03,160 --> 00:33:05,440
Speaker 1: that an arrestaurant is issued for you.

515
00:33:05,880 --> 00:33:10,000
Speaker 5: No Nancy, it's not good. It's a very good investigation

516
00:33:10,760 --> 00:33:17,760
Speaker 5: by multiple jurisdictions and that led to finding Aliavertian in Scotland.

517
00:33:17,880 --> 00:33:20,720
Speaker 1: And it's really amazing the way that they find him.

518
00:33:20,880 --> 00:33:22,560
Speaker 1: I want you to take a listen to Sidney Sumner

519
00:33:22,640 --> 00:33:23,280
Speaker 1: Crime online.

520
00:33:23,440 --> 00:33:27,240
Speaker 9: As investigators were looking for Nicholas Alavertian and Nicholas Rossi

521
00:33:27,320 --> 00:33:29,960
Speaker 9: in the United States, a man named Arthur Knight was

522
00:33:30,000 --> 00:33:33,640
Speaker 9: being treated for COVID nineteen at Queen Elizabeth University Hospital

523
00:33:33,680 --> 00:33:34,400
Speaker 9: in Glasglow.

524
00:33:34,760 --> 00:33:36,640
Speaker 1: He had been living a happy new life.

525
00:33:36,560 --> 00:33:39,040
Speaker 9: Married a woman named Miranda, and he worked as a tutor,

526
00:33:39,200 --> 00:33:42,000
Speaker 9: but then he suffered a serious case of numanitis caused

527
00:33:42,040 --> 00:33:46,040
Speaker 9: by COVID nineteen. Someone recognized him through his distinctive tattoos.

528
00:33:46,320 --> 00:33:49,040
Speaker 9: They were a match to those from a Pawtucket police

529
00:33:49,120 --> 00:33:51,880
Speaker 9: booking photo of him. In December twenty twenty one, they

530
00:33:52,000 --> 00:33:55,440
Speaker 9: arrested the convicted sex offender in the Glasglow hospital where

531
00:33:55,440 --> 00:33:58,560
Speaker 9: he lay critically ill. With COVID authority say Knight was

532
00:33:58,720 --> 00:34:02,960
Speaker 9: just one of Alivertians sixteen known aliases, which include Nicholas Rossi,

533
00:34:03,120 --> 00:34:06,440
Speaker 9: Nicholas Brown, Arthur Brown, and Arthur Knight Brown. He was

534
00:34:06,520 --> 00:34:10,080
Speaker 9: identified through fingerprints and DNA, as well as an analysis

535
00:34:10,160 --> 00:34:11,640
Speaker 9: of his distinctive tattoos.

536
00:34:12,000 --> 00:34:17,319
Speaker 1: Okay, to you, Tim White, joining us from wp r IV.

537
00:34:19,280 --> 00:34:21,080
Speaker 1: What is the distinctive tattoo?

538
00:34:21,239 --> 00:34:23,640
Speaker 4: Well, actually, I was looking at some of those pictures

539
00:34:24,080 --> 00:34:26,279
Speaker 4: just getting ready for this interview, and he has some

540
00:34:26,440 --> 00:34:31,520
Speaker 4: tattoos on his arm that you know. I'm gonna call

541
00:34:31,600 --> 00:34:33,480
Speaker 4: up some of the pictures here so I gotta describe him.

542
00:34:33,520 --> 00:34:36,360
Speaker 4: But he had tattoos on his arms that you know,

543
00:34:36,560 --> 00:34:38,040
Speaker 4: they're they're very distinct.

544
00:34:38,280 --> 00:34:42,120
Speaker 1: Oh my goodness, I'm looking at them. It looks like

545
00:34:42,280 --> 00:34:45,160
Speaker 1: some kind of a bizarre coat of arms with the

546
00:34:45,280 --> 00:34:49,200
Speaker 1: son coming up over the coat of arms and giant wings,

547
00:34:50,239 --> 00:34:53,239
Speaker 1: I mean they go. It's almost a full sleeve. And

548
00:34:53,400 --> 00:34:57,000
Speaker 1: on the other arm, it looks something like a navy anchor.

549
00:34:58,640 --> 00:34:59,880
Speaker 1: He's covered the anchor.

550
00:35:00,000 --> 00:35:03,160
Speaker 4: It's the symbol of Rhode Island. It's on our state flag.

551
00:35:03,280 --> 00:35:03,400
Speaker 5: Here.

552
00:35:03,440 --> 00:35:05,680
Speaker 4: I suspect that's probably White as I'm there.

553
00:35:06,640 --> 00:35:13,880
Speaker 1: Oh okay, Now, of course, with all of these distinctive tattoos,

554
00:35:13,920 --> 00:35:19,000
Speaker 1: that's one way to put it. And sixteen known aliases.

555
00:35:19,080 --> 00:35:23,520
Speaker 1: Of course, Greg Augrin, high profile warrior out of Laredo.

556
00:35:24,120 --> 00:35:28,600
Speaker 1: I love nothing more when the prosecutor reads the indictment

557
00:35:28,680 --> 00:35:32,080
Speaker 1: to the jury and reads off the witnesses to make

558
00:35:32,120 --> 00:35:34,840
Speaker 1: sure none of them are related or know the witnesses.

559
00:35:35,680 --> 00:35:37,360
Speaker 1: I love it when the whole front page of the

560
00:35:37,400 --> 00:35:43,759
Speaker 1: indictment is a listing of the defendants aliases aka Alverdian

561
00:35:43,880 --> 00:35:50,359
Speaker 1: aka Nicholas Brown aka Author Brown aka author Knight. I mean,

562
00:35:50,840 --> 00:35:53,240
Speaker 1: because nobody on the jury is going to have an alias,

563
00:35:53,920 --> 00:35:54,640
Speaker 1: just a defendant.

564
00:35:54,920 --> 00:36:00,200
Speaker 7: Yeah, that is obviously this guy is a serial CNN

565
00:36:01,520 --> 00:36:02,440
Speaker 7: experienced criminal.

566
00:36:03,200 --> 00:36:05,840
Speaker 1: It gives a jury a horrible impression, but it's true,

567
00:36:07,160 --> 00:36:09,279
Speaker 1: and you have to read off all the aliases to

568
00:36:09,320 --> 00:36:13,319
Speaker 1: the jury in case they know him under some fake name.

569
00:36:14,160 --> 00:36:18,480
Speaker 1: So it's a necessity of the law. But when ladies,

570
00:36:18,920 --> 00:36:22,080
Speaker 1: when you meet a guy that a wants money in

571
00:36:22,239 --> 00:36:25,440
Speaker 1: b has an alias and I'll just throw this in

572
00:36:25,520 --> 00:36:29,200
Speaker 1: there has a second cell phone, run for the hills

573
00:36:29,480 --> 00:36:32,440
Speaker 1: as if you had seen a monster. So to you,

574
00:36:32,719 --> 00:36:36,560
Speaker 1: IRV Brant, how did they track this guy down? And

575
00:36:36,680 --> 00:36:40,600
Speaker 1: of course he wouldn't waive extradition. He insisted he was

576
00:36:40,640 --> 00:36:44,680
Speaker 1: an Irish orphan and challenged authorities to prove he wasn't.

577
00:36:45,040 --> 00:36:47,640
Speaker 1: So how do you tackle something like that or Brant.

578
00:36:47,800 --> 00:36:51,319
Speaker 5: Well, Nancy, it's in the UK. It's very complicated. They

579
00:36:51,400 --> 00:36:54,200
Speaker 5: have an extensive appeals system.

580
00:36:54,440 --> 00:36:58,080
Speaker 1: Just a second, anywhere the lawyers have to wear, including women,

581
00:36:58,200 --> 00:37:02,040
Speaker 1: a white wig on their head. I would say, it's complicated,

582
00:37:02,360 --> 00:37:03,680
Speaker 1: but go ahead, Okay.

583
00:37:03,560 --> 00:37:09,200
Speaker 5: You're right it is. And he maintained the whole time

584
00:37:09,760 --> 00:37:13,320
Speaker 5: that authorities had the wrong individual, even though he was

585
00:37:13,520 --> 00:37:22,760
Speaker 5: confronted with DNA evidence, fingerprints, the distinctive tattoos. His defense

586
00:37:23,040 --> 00:37:28,160
Speaker 5: was always that's not me. So he contested the identity

587
00:37:28,840 --> 00:37:32,880
Speaker 5: part of the extradition all the way through the appeal process,

588
00:37:33,320 --> 00:37:38,440
Speaker 5: until finally the Crown decided that it is indeed the

589
00:37:38,520 --> 00:37:42,280
Speaker 5: same person wanted in the United States, and the Crown

590
00:37:42,360 --> 00:37:45,440
Speaker 5: issued a surrender warrant to the Office of International Affairs

591
00:37:45,880 --> 00:37:49,799
Speaker 5: and the US Marshall Service conducted the extradition.

592
00:37:49,920 --> 00:37:52,719
Speaker 1: How are they typically brought back from overseas.

593
00:37:52,400 --> 00:37:56,200
Speaker 5: Well, typically they would be brought back on a commercial flight.

594
00:37:56,360 --> 00:37:59,200
Speaker 1: I mean with paying customers like myself and my children.

595
00:37:59,400 --> 00:38:00,680
Speaker 1: I all of this guy sitting behind me.

596
00:38:00,960 --> 00:38:03,719
Speaker 5: Well, the marshals would take up a whole row and

597
00:38:04,200 --> 00:38:08,280
Speaker 5: they would take the last row and there you ever.

598
00:38:08,280 --> 00:38:10,800
Speaker 1: See snakes on a plane? Man? Think about it?

599
00:38:12,200 --> 00:38:17,040
Speaker 5: Right. The marshals would either normally go be the first

600
00:38:17,080 --> 00:38:18,880
Speaker 5: one insta board and they would take them to the

601
00:38:19,040 --> 00:38:22,480
Speaker 5: very last row and there would be marshals on both

602
00:38:22,560 --> 00:38:24,560
Speaker 5: sides of them, and he wouldn't be allowed to get

603
00:38:24,640 --> 00:38:27,320
Speaker 5: up during the flight. But in a case like this,

604
00:38:28,200 --> 00:38:31,239
Speaker 5: this lunatic is not going to get on a commercial flight.

605
00:38:31,680 --> 00:38:36,080
Speaker 5: He's going to fake a medical emergency. The flight crew

606
00:38:36,320 --> 00:38:40,160
Speaker 5: would not let him on the flight. So what the

607
00:38:40,239 --> 00:38:45,400
Speaker 5: Marshal Service did, and this is typical of cases of

608
00:38:45,520 --> 00:38:48,880
Speaker 5: this nature, is they would charter a flight and in

609
00:38:49,080 --> 00:38:52,719
Speaker 5: the charter, in the bid for the charter, the flight

610
00:38:52,840 --> 00:38:56,760
Speaker 5: crew would have medical personnel and also the Marshall Service

611
00:38:57,280 --> 00:39:01,840
Speaker 5: have deputies trained em keys that they would put on

612
00:39:02,360 --> 00:39:05,520
Speaker 5: that extradition to bring him back and they would fly

613
00:39:05,719 --> 00:39:08,400
Speaker 5: him from the UK to the East Coast to the

614
00:39:08,560 --> 00:39:13,560
Speaker 5: United States, normally someplace like Bangor, Maine, to go through

615
00:39:13,680 --> 00:39:17,879
Speaker 5: CBP where they would file the parole letter to get

616
00:39:17,920 --> 00:39:23,799
Speaker 5: him back into the country Custom Border Protection. It's going

617
00:39:23,840 --> 00:39:28,600
Speaker 5: through immigration, is what I'm saying. I'm sorry why Bangor, Well,

618
00:39:29,480 --> 00:39:33,279
Speaker 5: the jets that they would we're going to have to

619
00:39:33,400 --> 00:39:38,800
Speaker 5: refuel after a transatlantic flight. Bangor is one of the

620
00:39:38,920 --> 00:39:44,800
Speaker 5: closest you go further up the East coast in instead

621
00:39:44,800 --> 00:39:48,000
Speaker 5: of New York or someplace, or you know, Atlanta, one

622
00:39:48,040 --> 00:39:51,319
Speaker 5: of those international airports. You go as far north as

623
00:39:51,360 --> 00:39:54,800
Speaker 5: you can because it's the shortest route to the United Kingdom.

624
00:39:54,880 --> 00:39:57,439
Speaker 1: So wait a minute. He faked an ailment and tried

625
00:39:57,520 --> 00:39:58,440
Speaker 1: not to get on the plane.

626
00:39:58,680 --> 00:40:03,680
Speaker 5: Well, he they ailments in the past, and court appearances.

627
00:40:04,120 --> 00:40:08,320
Speaker 5: He'd faked illnesses, and the Marshall Service knows this, so

628
00:40:08,520 --> 00:40:10,960
Speaker 5: they know trying to put him on a commercial flight

629
00:40:11,040 --> 00:40:13,640
Speaker 5: would be a waste of time because when they brought

630
00:40:13,719 --> 00:40:16,520
Speaker 5: him to the gateway, he's going to fake an illness

631
00:40:16,800 --> 00:40:19,640
Speaker 5: and the flight crew won't let him on the flight.

632
00:40:20,480 --> 00:40:24,120
Speaker 5: So to get around that, they were charted the flight

633
00:40:25,239 --> 00:40:27,320
Speaker 5: fly to the East Coast.

634
00:40:27,520 --> 00:40:29,880
Speaker 1: I can't believe my taxpayer's money is going to fly

635
00:40:30,080 --> 00:40:32,120
Speaker 1: this guy. How I'm on a charter flight, but I'd

636
00:40:32,239 --> 00:40:34,640
Speaker 1: rather do that than have him on a plane with

637
00:40:35,280 --> 00:40:41,240
Speaker 1: children and innocent, innocent civilians. This guy shot to fame.

638
00:40:41,320 --> 00:40:43,400
Speaker 1: I'll just call him Nick Rossi, although that's certainly not

639
00:40:43,480 --> 00:40:50,840
Speaker 1: his name, after he wildly gestured when he insisted he

640
00:40:50,960 --> 00:40:53,360
Speaker 1: was innocent, so much so that he fogged up his

641
00:40:53,480 --> 00:40:58,719
Speaker 1: own glasses. So Greg Algrin, international lawyer, joining US out

642
00:40:58,719 --> 00:41:04,400
Speaker 1: of Texas. How do you fight extradition when DNA not

643
00:41:04,560 --> 00:41:08,680
Speaker 1: just fingerprints, but DNA also proves it's you. You're not

644
00:41:08,880 --> 00:41:13,040
Speaker 1: an Irish orphan living in Scotland, You're a rapist in

645
00:41:13,160 --> 00:41:14,759
Speaker 1: multiple US jurisdictions.

646
00:41:15,080 --> 00:41:18,359
Speaker 7: Yeah, that's difficult. So it seems like there's no question

647
00:41:18,480 --> 00:41:23,560
Speaker 7: here was the individual they're looking for. I mean there

648
00:41:23,600 --> 00:41:26,239
Speaker 7: are obviously, you know, there are technicalities that have to

649
00:41:26,320 --> 00:41:32,040
Speaker 7: be followed, procedural formalities, and so if you were defense

650
00:41:32,120 --> 00:41:36,080
Speaker 7: counsel in an extradition matter, you know, you would argue

651
00:41:36,200 --> 00:41:41,640
Speaker 7: that the different due process protocols hadn't been complied with.

652
00:41:42,480 --> 00:41:48,840
Speaker 7: You could also argue that there was a discrepancy in

653
00:41:48,960 --> 00:41:52,560
Speaker 7: the criminal law systems between the two different jurisdictions that

654
00:41:52,680 --> 00:41:54,600
Speaker 7: made the crimes incompatible.

655
00:41:54,680 --> 00:41:58,000
Speaker 1: I'm looking right now at Nicholas Rossi, Nicolas Rossi with

656
00:41:58,040 --> 00:42:02,480
Speaker 1: air quotes assistent that he cannot breathe properly or walk,

657
00:42:03,080 --> 00:42:06,200
Speaker 1: and he has now put an oxygen mask on his face,

658
00:42:07,040 --> 00:42:12,239
Speaker 1: and he is actually fogging up his glasses as he

659
00:42:12,400 --> 00:42:20,160
Speaker 1: vehemently denies being Alverdian, and his wife on video overpowers

660
00:42:20,280 --> 00:42:23,360
Speaker 1: him and forces him to sit back down because he

661
00:42:23,640 --> 00:42:27,520
Speaker 1: is so ill. Long story short, if there is such

662
00:42:27,520 --> 00:42:29,880
Speaker 1: a thing in this case, Tim White, where is he

663
00:42:30,080 --> 00:42:31,760
Speaker 1: now and what is next?

664
00:42:32,360 --> 00:42:35,520
Speaker 4: Yeah, he's in Utah right now. He is being transferred

665
00:42:35,520 --> 00:42:39,920
Speaker 4: from one county to another. He was transferred to Davis County,

666
00:42:40,120 --> 00:42:43,000
Speaker 4: Utah because they have the contract with the US Marshall

667
00:42:43,040 --> 00:42:46,960
Speaker 4: Service when detainees come into that state, that's where they

668
00:42:47,040 --> 00:42:50,000
Speaker 4: go from the US Marshall Service. He will then go

669
00:42:50,239 --> 00:42:54,040
Speaker 4: either to Salt Lake City County or Utah County, which

670
00:42:54,080 --> 00:42:55,920
Speaker 4: is where I think he's going to go, because that

671
00:42:56,120 --> 00:42:59,120
Speaker 4: is the original charge that came out of that two

672
00:42:59,160 --> 00:43:02,040
Speaker 4: thousand and seven test of the rate kits that you

673
00:43:02,120 --> 00:43:05,000
Speaker 4: discussed earlier. I do want to jump back real quick, Nancy,

674
00:43:05,120 --> 00:43:09,320
Speaker 4: briefly on one thing that a guest said earlier. Not

675
00:43:09,520 --> 00:43:12,800
Speaker 4: only did he maintain that he was Arthur Knight that

676
00:43:13,080 --> 00:43:16,200
Speaker 4: entire time, trying to drag out the process, the legal

677
00:43:16,280 --> 00:43:19,239
Speaker 4: process in the UK, he alleged it was part of

678
00:43:19,320 --> 00:43:23,640
Speaker 4: a grand conspiracy that the tattoos on his arms that

679
00:43:23,719 --> 00:43:26,280
Speaker 4: were an exact match to the booking photos of Patucket,

680
00:43:26,320 --> 00:43:28,920
Speaker 4: Rhode Island from the police Department there were placed on

681
00:43:29,080 --> 00:43:34,400
Speaker 4: his arms while he was unconscious at a Scotland, Scottish hospital,

682
00:43:34,719 --> 00:43:38,000
Speaker 4: he said that the fingerprint match those were faked, so

683
00:43:38,080 --> 00:43:40,440
Speaker 4: that it was a government fake, that the DNA that

684
00:43:40,760 --> 00:43:43,759
Speaker 4: was fake. So not only did he just simply maintain it,

685
00:43:44,200 --> 00:43:48,120
Speaker 4: he went through extraordinary lengths to try to maintain that

686
00:43:48,280 --> 00:43:53,960
Speaker 4: image that he was this Irish orphan mistaken identity over

687
00:43:54,000 --> 00:43:55,680
Speaker 4: in the UK. It's pretty wild, Jim.

688
00:43:55,760 --> 00:43:58,480
Speaker 1: Why I want to thank you for making me the

689
00:43:58,600 --> 00:44:01,600
Speaker 1: happiest woman on earth right now, because not only is

690
00:44:01,640 --> 00:44:05,560
Speaker 1: their DNA proving that he is a rapist, and believe

691
00:44:05,640 --> 00:44:10,560
Speaker 1: you me, women are lining up around the courthouse to

692
00:44:10,680 --> 00:44:15,359
Speaker 1: testify against him, but now he's saying there's a conspiracy. Oh,

693
00:44:15,480 --> 00:44:18,480
Speaker 1: I love that. I remember prosecuting. I get one hundred

694
00:44:18,480 --> 00:44:21,320
Speaker 1: new cases a week. I didn't have time to prosecute

695
00:44:21,360 --> 00:44:25,879
Speaker 1: and investigate those cases, much less cook up a conspiracy

696
00:44:26,040 --> 00:44:30,520
Speaker 1: against an innocent person. I'm so happy that they tattooed

697
00:44:30,600 --> 00:44:34,080
Speaker 1: him in his sleep and faked his fingerprints.

698
00:44:34,160 --> 00:44:34,279
Speaker 9: Oh.

699
00:44:34,360 --> 00:44:37,719
Speaker 1: I can't wait for the jury to hear that. We

700
00:44:37,920 --> 00:44:41,680
Speaker 1: wait as justice of the folds, not a bounty hunter.

701
00:44:42,960 --> 00:44:43,640
Speaker 1: Goodbye Fred