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Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff you missed in History Class from how

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Speaker 1: Stuff Works dot com. Hello, and welcome to the podcast.

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Speaker 1: I'm Katie Lambert and I'm Sarah Downey and we've talked

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Speaker 1: about Queen Elizabeth the first and a couple of podcasts.

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Speaker 1: So you know that her reputation was that of the

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Speaker 1: virgin Queen, and it's a reputation she worked very hard

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Speaker 1: to maintain all throughout her life and it's one that

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Speaker 1: served her well. Yeah, she was a game player. She

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Speaker 1: encouraged suits from all sorts of princes and fellow englishmen

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Speaker 1: and deflected them adeptly. She never married, but she did

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Speaker 1: have one great love and his name was Robert Dudley.

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Speaker 1: And to give a little background on Robert, they've been

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Speaker 1: friends since they were children. He said later in life.

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Speaker 1: I have known her better than any man alive since

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Speaker 1: she was eight years old. And to sort of build

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Speaker 1: up the myth that they shared, they both spent time

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Speaker 1: in the tower together. It's unlikely that they ever saw

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Speaker 1: each other there. Elizabeth was kept under very tight security

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Speaker 1: and m Robert was actually married at the time, but

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Speaker 1: it plays into the romantic myth. Of course, they're both doomed.

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Speaker 1: They're both imprisoned, and yet they find love quite close

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Speaker 1: to home. But again it never happened, but you can

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Speaker 1: understand why someone might be attracted to Robert. He was

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Speaker 1: six ft tall, very attractive, um dark skinned. Some called

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Speaker 1: him the Gypsy, which I really love because Elizabeth, of

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Speaker 1: course is the Rose, exactly gypsy Rose. Sarah thought this

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Speaker 1: was really funny. Brother. He has red brown hair and

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Speaker 1: a mustache. He's very active, He danced and sang, was

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Speaker 1: a wonderful conversationalist. He was very well educated. But he's

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Speaker 1: also from a rather traitorous family. He's the son of

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Speaker 1: Northumberland who is involved in treason, so he doesn't have

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Speaker 1: the best pedigree when it comes to being loyal to

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Speaker 1: the monarch. And he is of course of too common

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Speaker 1: birth to be considered an appropriate suitor for a queen,

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Speaker 1: so that's something will keep in mind. But he was

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Speaker 1: married to someone else, a woman named Amy, and it

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Speaker 1: was a love match and a very happy marriage, at

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Speaker 1: least at first. So that's Robert and Elizabeth's personal history.

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Speaker 1: But he makes his public entrance into her life when

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Speaker 1: she appoints him master of the Horse the day after

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Speaker 1: she is sents to the throne and if you don't

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Speaker 1: know what that job is, uh, it's it's pretty important.

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Speaker 1: It's to purchase breed, train and maintain the queen and

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Speaker 1: the courts horses. And for somebody like Elizabeth who goes

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Speaker 1: on a grand progress every year, that's a big deal.

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Speaker 1: He also had to organize state processions and entertainment like

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Speaker 1: tournaments and banquets. So there's a bit of an event

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Speaker 1: planner and he's good at it. Yes, he's very good

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Speaker 1: at it. So in time Robert becomes more important to

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Speaker 1: the Queen. She's asking him about state affairs and he's

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Speaker 1: influencing her and her dealings with the clergy. Most days

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Speaker 1: together they're writing and hunting. And she didn't try to

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Speaker 1: keep any of this secret. She was really open about

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Speaker 1: how much she admired him and how great of a

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Speaker 1: guy she thought he was. She praised him publicly. She

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Speaker 1: would dance with him at balls. None of this was shady. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and and this is Elizabeth is trying to make it

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Speaker 1: so open so that people won't talk about it. So

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Speaker 1: there's nothing suspicious. And we have to remember from our

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Speaker 1: our Early Life of Elizabeth podcast, she's involved in a

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Speaker 1: shady relationship with a married man in her teens and

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Speaker 1: it almost ruins her. It almost it almost gets her killed,

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Speaker 1: it almost drops her from the line of succession. So

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Speaker 1: she's not going to make mistakes like that anymore. But gossip,

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Speaker 1: of course, simply happens, and as the Queen was in

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Speaker 1: Robert's chamber day and night, people started saying that she

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Speaker 1: was only waiting for his wife to die so she

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Speaker 1: could marry him. And also, remember that everyone wanted Elizabeth

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Speaker 1: to get married, it was inconceivable that she would stay single.

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Speaker 1: She however, didn't want to for a lot of possible reasons,

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Speaker 1: which we talked more about in her Early Life podcast,

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Speaker 1: but some of them were just not wanting to give

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Speaker 1: up to her power, because of course, a husband was

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Speaker 1: considered sovereign over his wife, and Elizabeth really enjoyed being

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Speaker 1: who she was, and she associated marriage with death, and

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Speaker 1: she was probably quite frightened of childbirth, as as a

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Speaker 1: tutor woman would be. It's no surprise so many women

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Speaker 1: died in childbirth at the time. But despite all of

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Speaker 1: this gossip, because of court etiquette, it's not like Elizabeth

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Speaker 1: ever would have really been alone with Robert. There's no

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Speaker 1: evidence of a sexual relationship between them, and again, at

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Speaker 1: the time there wasn't a good reliable method of contraception,

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Speaker 1: so it's very likely if she were having sex with him,

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Speaker 1: we would have very physical evidence to show for it.

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Speaker 1: But Robert continues to raise eyebrow, and Elizabeth really helps

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Speaker 1: this when she bestows on him the Order of the Garter,

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Speaker 1: which is far beyond his qualifications, and he also gets

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Speaker 1: to a mansion in Q, he gets land, he gets money,

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Speaker 1: and he's still acting in a somewhat political role despite

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Speaker 1: the fact that that's not his job, and giving her advice,

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Speaker 1: she keeps him in line. She makes it very clear

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Speaker 1: that she is the boss and he is her underling.

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Speaker 1: But nonetheless people are suspicious of him and his influence

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Speaker 1: because who knows how far it ranges, and who knows

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Speaker 1: just how ambitious he is well, and on a personal level,

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Speaker 1: it really does seem like true love. If you look

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Speaker 1: at their letters, you can see the regard they have

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Speaker 1: for each other, and she addresses him as her bonnie

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Speaker 1: sweet Robin. And of course the benefit for her is

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Speaker 1: that he's already married, but his wife Amy is in

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Speaker 1: the country, so she can have all the funds she

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Speaker 1: wants without all the marriage stuff that she is so

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Speaker 1: afraid of yeah, and and entertain the ambassadors who are

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Speaker 1: seeing the suit of their foreign princes without having a

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Speaker 1: legitimate guy on the side who might be a suitor

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Speaker 1: himself exactly. So they're using each other a little bit.

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Speaker 1: And Robert continues to a send he's doing very well

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Speaker 1: for himself. He does get Knight of the Garter and

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Speaker 1: eventually attains the completely uncoveted role of one of the

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Speaker 1: most hated men in England. And I was saying to

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Speaker 1: Sarah earlier, it's so funny to see a guy as

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Speaker 1: the hated favorite instead of say, somebody like Madame Pombadour

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Speaker 1: and the French Kings. It's really interesting. He's resented, he's feared,

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Speaker 1: he's distrusted, and his personal characteristics don't really help this

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Speaker 1: image of him, because he is kind of snobbish and

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Speaker 1: very ambitious, and he makes himself the gateway to the Queen.

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Speaker 1: If you want to see her first, to have to

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Speaker 1: go through Dudley, and it's not easy. And he even

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Speaker 1: tries to sabotage some marriage arrangements for her, you know,

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Speaker 1: saying it wasn't a good idea for England, or uh.

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Speaker 1: The suitor himself isn't a good man, just befuddling everything,

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Speaker 1: but he clearly is again her favorite. And her old governess,

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Speaker 1: who is the one who helped extricate her from that

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Speaker 1: first an appropriate relationship, begs her to stop this what's

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Speaker 1: going on with Robert and to please get married and

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Speaker 1: produce an heir for England. But Elizabeth, and this is

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Speaker 1: a poignant moment, says that she has so little joy

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Speaker 1: in her life aside from him, and so much sorrow.

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Speaker 1: So he's, you know, her one special thing she has

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Speaker 1: to herself in this life of governing England. But the

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Speaker 1: gossip goes beyond just sort of court um disapproval, and

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Speaker 1: the stuff that the town people are saying can get

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Speaker 1: pretty nasty. It's rumored that she goes on progress every

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Speaker 1: year to give birth to Robert's child, and she's got

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Speaker 1: about five by now or something. She sounds a bit difficult,

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Speaker 1: and she stir only punishes the people who who are

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Speaker 1: talking about her like that, but again she's not shy

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Speaker 1: about how she feels about him. At one point, they're

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Speaker 1: staying at Whitehall and Robert said his rooms were damp,

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Speaker 1: so the Queen gave him a suite next to her

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Speaker 1: she's flaunting it. She's not behaving herself in a modest

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Speaker 1: sort of way because she thinks, you know, she's the

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Speaker 1: monarch and who are they to question what she's doing

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Speaker 1: because she knows she's not doing anything quote unseemly, so

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Speaker 1: no one should be questioning her when she's you know,

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Speaker 1: acting perfectly innocently with her core favorite. There is talk

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Speaker 1: of Robert, though, trying to poison his wife or get

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Speaker 1: his marriage dissolved so he can marry the queen, and

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Speaker 1: this is when his wife comes back into the story.

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Speaker 1: So Elizabeth doesn't like Amy Dudley and Robert only has

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Speaker 1: the one house at Q and Elizabeth likes to go

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Speaker 1: and visit him there, so Amy isn't allowed to be

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Speaker 1: in her own house. She's shuttled around between friends and family,

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Speaker 1: and Robert and Amy don't see each other very much.

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Speaker 1: He tries to make it up to her by sending

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Speaker 1: her gifts all the time, but she's a sad, lonely lady.

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Speaker 1: And by September fifteen sixty we do have evidence from

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Speaker 1: contemporary accounts that she was very depressed. We don't know

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Speaker 1: if that's because she was ill. There were a lot

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Speaker 1: of rumors at the time that she had a malady

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Speaker 1: in her breast, or if it was because her unhappy

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Speaker 1: marriage and her husband's relationship with Queen. But on September eight,

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Speaker 1: fift sixty, Amy unusually sends all of her servants away

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Speaker 1: to a religious fair, and some of them objected because

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Speaker 1: it was a Sunday and they didn't think it was appropriate,

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Speaker 1: but she forces them to go, and she's angry when

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Speaker 1: one of them decides to stay with her. And when

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Speaker 1: they come back from the fair, they find the body

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Speaker 1: of Amy Dudley at the foot of a shallow set

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Speaker 1: of stone stairs with a broken neck. So this obviously

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Speaker 1: changes the game a lot between Elizabeth and Dudley, and

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Speaker 1: when they're both told, Elizabeth is completely shocked, speechless, and

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Speaker 1: Dudley seems confused. He asked for an inquiry into her death,

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Speaker 1: which of course they needed, and Elizabeth goes into her

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Speaker 1: mode of propriety and she makes the news public. She

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Speaker 1: says publicly that it was an accident and sets up

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Speaker 1: an inquest, and then she sends him away, knowing that

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Speaker 1: it looks bad that he's with her. He needs to

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Speaker 1: stay away until she hears from the corner, so Dudley

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Speaker 1: thinks Amy has been murdered, and he doesn't seem too

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Speaker 1: sad about it, but he desperately wants to clear his name.

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Speaker 1: Some people, on the other hand, are thinking that it

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Speaker 1: was suicide because Amy was so upset, either over potential

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Speaker 1: illness or because of Dudley an Elizabeth, but because suicide

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Speaker 1: is immortal sin, they're keeping that to themselves for the

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Speaker 1: most part. And the corner's verdict is accidental death. But

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Speaker 1: Dudley again is convinced that it's murder and he wants

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Speaker 1: another verdict he has to clear his name, but Elizabeth

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Speaker 1: says that one is enough, and Dudley's invited back to court,

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Speaker 1: and Elizabeth orders the court to mourn for a month.

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Speaker 1: But people still guilty, guilty, and they continue to think

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Speaker 1: he's guilty for pretty much the rest of his life.

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Speaker 1: In the nineteen hundreds, her coffin was exhumed, but there

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Speaker 1: was only dust in it. It's the theme to all

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Speaker 1: of our podcasts, euming the body. The only thing Amy, Dudley,

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Speaker 1: and marywether lewis possibly having common. A modern suggestion is

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Speaker 1: perhaps that you know, in some cases of breast cancer,

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Speaker 1: it can weaken your bones and a little fall like

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Speaker 1: that could do something as serious as break your neck.

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Speaker 1: But it's also possible that it was murder, and we

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Speaker 1: have one main suspect. Yeah, the only person who would

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Speaker 1: actually benefit from the death of Amy Dudley was William Cecil,

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Speaker 1: who's Elizabeth's chief adviser, who hates Dudley and doesn't want

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Speaker 1: to see him anywhere near the Queen, And with the

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Speaker 1: taint of this mysterious death on him, it's absolutely impossible

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Speaker 1: for Elizabeth to marry Dudley now, even if she'd wanted

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Speaker 1: to before the people would revolt. She needs to get

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Speaker 1: rid of him. Everyone's up in arms that she's in

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Speaker 1: a relationship with a possible murder. The foreign courts of

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Speaker 1: Europe are completely appalled, and so she has to put

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Speaker 1: head over heart. So when it comes time for the

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Speaker 1: public ceremony to raise Dudley to the peerage, she cuts

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Speaker 1: up the papers and referenced his traitor as family, all

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Speaker 1: in front of him. So that is just a slap

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Speaker 1: in the face. Yeah. If if raising him to Master

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Speaker 1: of the Horse was the public declaration of their friendship,

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Speaker 1: their close friendship, this is the public declaration of Elizabeth's disapproval.

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Speaker 1: So Dudley is a bit out in the cold, and

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Speaker 1: for some reason, his tactic is to try to get

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Speaker 1: in good with King Philip. He wants him on his

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Speaker 1: side to help make his suit to Elizabeth, and tells

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Speaker 1: Philip that he'll help restore Catholicism to England if Philip

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Speaker 1: helps him, which of course is not going to happen,

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Speaker 1: and Cecil thwarts his efforts in any way possible, as

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Speaker 1: he will continue to do for the rest of his life.

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Speaker 1: And Dudley is still hoping that the Queen will marry him,

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Speaker 1: but she's playing with him, giving him a nice apartment

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Speaker 1: next to hers one minute and then making a joke

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Speaker 1: about how he's just her little dog the next, very humiliating.

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Speaker 1: He's not doing too badly as far as say pensions

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Speaker 1: and privileges are going, but he can't have what he wants,

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Speaker 1: which is marriage to Elizabeth, partly for love and partly

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Speaker 1: for ambition. She does eventually raise him to the peerage,

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Speaker 1: though after that humiliating incident um, and this time she

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Speaker 1: tickles his neck when she does it. She's such a

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Speaker 1: flirting text. So he becomes the Earl of Lester, and

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Speaker 1: he's one of the four most powerful men in England

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Speaker 1: along with Norfolk, Sussex and William Cecil. And now that

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Speaker 1: he is one of the most powerful men in England

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Speaker 1: and not kind of low of birth, he does have

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Speaker 1: some supporters. People are really worried that Elizabeth hasn't decided

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Speaker 1: on the succession yet, and she's middle aged by this point,

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Speaker 1: at least by Renaissance standards, and they want her to

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Speaker 1: marry somebody and have an air. So the game playing continues,

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Speaker 1: and Deadly fears that she had made up her mind

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Speaker 1: to wed some great prince. He tells someone else, so

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Speaker 1: he raises the stakes and he starts up a flirtation

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Speaker 1: with Latisse Devereaux, the Countess of Essex, who's a cousin

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Speaker 1: of Elizabeth's and very beautiful to write, and the motive

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Speaker 1: supposedly is to make Elizabeth jealous and see if she

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Speaker 1: really wants to marry him. This backfires spectacularly. Elizabeth begins

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Speaker 1: to give her attention to another young man at court

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Speaker 1: and they have a giant fight. Elizabeth yells at Robert,

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Speaker 1: I have wished you well, but my favor is not

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Speaker 1: so locked up for you that others shall not participate.

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Speaker 1: Thereof which is a line I plan to remember, but

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Speaker 1: they reconcile, both of them in tears, which is characteristic

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Speaker 1: of their very passionate relationship. But you can't this kind

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Speaker 1: of that level of passion can't be sustained. Yeah, these

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Speaker 1: huge fights and then these amatic makeups. Um, they can't

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Speaker 1: keep on doing this. And in a sense for the

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Speaker 1: two of them, this part of their relationship is when

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Speaker 1: things change. Deadley is tired of the court. He's tired

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Speaker 1: of all the little scandals and the political intrigues, and

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Speaker 1: he's completely exhausted by Elizabeth's games, as anyone would be,

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Speaker 1: I think, and it's beginning to become clear to him

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Speaker 1: that she will never marry him. He hasn't accepted it yet,

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Speaker 1: but he's got you know, a little inkling. Well. He's

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Speaker 1: tired of being blamed too, for being the one who

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Speaker 1: makes all her marriage arrangements fall through. She uses him

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Speaker 1: for that, but he's he's tired of being her scapegoat.

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Speaker 1: She likes to do things like banish him from court

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Speaker 1: and then send him a letter saying he should never

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Speaker 1: leave her side, and then he comes back, and after

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Speaker 1: a while she throws him at again and invites him back.

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Speaker 1: It's tiring, just to read about, much less to be

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Speaker 1: part of. My favorite detail is at one point, Cecil

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Speaker 1: is comparing Robert to an archduke, and he makes up

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Speaker 1: an actual chart of their pros and cons to show

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Speaker 1: that Dudley simply isn't as good as the archduke. We

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Speaker 1: were joking it would have mustache pro on wife murder.

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Speaker 1: The idea of them getting married seems more and more

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Speaker 1: remote as time goes by, but those rumors never stop.

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Speaker 1: It's always swirling around that maybe maybe he'll be the one,

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Speaker 1: because again, she's really really good at this. She's such

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Speaker 1: a manipulator. And I kept thinking as I was researching this,

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Speaker 1: and maybe this is something about me more than her.

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Speaker 1: But I don't hate the player, hate the game, because

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Speaker 1: she is such a good little player. And this whole

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Speaker 1: time she's entertaining different suitors and never really has any

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Speaker 1: serious intentions of accepting any of them as a husband.

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Speaker 1: So as their relationship changes, they become they do lose

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Speaker 1: some of that passion and they become more like an

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Speaker 1: old married couple who kind of vickers at each other

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Speaker 1: and they're fond of each other and um. But around

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Speaker 1: seventy two, he as a secret marriage to Lady Sheffield,

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Speaker 1: so he's moved on to a certain extent and he

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Speaker 1: Lady Sheffield have a baby together after this secret marriage.

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Speaker 1: And Dudley, also known as Lester from this point on

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Speaker 1: because he is the Earl of Leicester, wanted to acknowledge him,

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Speaker 1: but he couldn't because Elizabeth thought it was a bastard

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Speaker 1: and probably honestly would have flipped out if she'd known

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Speaker 1: that he married someone else. So he calls the son

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Speaker 1: the Badge of his sin for the rest of his life,

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Speaker 1: even though he's so desperately wanted an air and not

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Speaker 1: that his relationship with the Queen has ended. During her

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Speaker 1: progress in fifteen seventy five, which ended at Kennelworth, she

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Speaker 1: told him that she couldn't see the formal garden from

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Speaker 1: her window, so overnight he had a completely new one

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Speaker 1: set up where she could see it. Yeah, he really

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Speaker 1: plays the role at the Cavalier well, sometimes with Elizabeth,

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Speaker 1: but that same year he starts up again with latisse Um,

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Speaker 1: who is married and nights aren't supposed to sleep with

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Speaker 1: other knights wives, so this is pretty scandalous. But eventually

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Speaker 1: her husband dies and she's pregnant by Lester, so he

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Speaker 1: marries her. But if his marriage to Lady Sheffield was real,

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Speaker 1: and there's a lot of evidence to suggest that it was,

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Speaker 1: he was a big amist, and then this baby really

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Speaker 1: wouldn't be legitimate, and he really wanted that legitimate air.

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Speaker 1: Elizabeth found out about this marriage, I when sure if

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Speaker 1: he told her, if someone else told her. But she

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Speaker 1: was brokenhearted and felt completely betrayed by him. But they

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Speaker 1: come to a certain arrangement of sorts, and if he'll

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Speaker 1: continue to be her favorite, be her night and pretend

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Speaker 1: nothing happened, basically turned Latise into an amy that old

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Speaker 1: wife who stays with her relatives and friends. Um. Then

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Speaker 1: Elizabeth will pretend that nothing happened either, and it all

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Speaker 1: I'll be okay. But she doesn't quite stick to that,

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Speaker 1: because Elizabeth hates Latise now, who really should have okayed

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Speaker 1: her marriage with Elizabeth in the first place. But Elizabeth

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Speaker 1: actually boxes her ears when Latisse shows bit court in

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Speaker 1: her fancy clothes and tells her as but one sun

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Speaker 1: lights the east, so I shall have but one queen

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Speaker 1: in England, at which point I think Lester realizes what

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Speaker 1: he's done, setting him up, setting himself up between these

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Speaker 1: two women. Despite this seeming accord between Lester and the Queen.

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Speaker 1: She is in a perpetual bad mood according to everyone

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Speaker 1: at court. She keeps him away from his wife whenever

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Speaker 1: she can, and just in general is nasty to be around.

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Speaker 1: Lester finally gets what he wants, though, which is an

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Speaker 1: heir by Latise, a son who Robert adores, but he

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Speaker 1: unfortunately dies quite young um and then Lester himself dies,

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Speaker 1: probably of stomach cancer on September, rumored to have been

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Speaker 1: poisoned by Latise, who had a lover, but who knows

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Speaker 1: about that. Elizabeth was completely devastated by his death. She

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Speaker 1: locked herself in her room for days, and she took

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Speaker 1: the last letter that he wrote her and labeled it

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Speaker 1: last Letter and put it in a little box by

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Speaker 1: her bed, where it stayed until the day she died.

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Speaker 1: And he left her a rope of six pearls. We've

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Speaker 1: kind have been tracing the roots of Elizabeth Pearl Elizabeth's

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Speaker 1: pearls in these podcasts, but among other things, that she

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Speaker 1: wears these pearls in her Armada portrait. And let us

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Speaker 1: say also that Elizabeth got her revenge on Latisse. Lester

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Speaker 1: died with debts and the Queen made sure that Latisse

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Speaker 1: had to auction off everything they owned to pay them,

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Speaker 1: which wasn't that coolness And that ruthlessness goes along with

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Speaker 1: how we usually think of Elizabeth, which is bigger than life,

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Speaker 1: the virgin Queen Glory Anna, always managing things just just

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Speaker 1: quite right. But it's interesting to look at her relationship

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Speaker 1: with Robert because it is so human and it shows

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Speaker 1: that human side of someone who tries to almost strip

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Speaker 1: it from her public persona. And in one way she

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Speaker 1: could have had him because he wanted her and he

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Speaker 1: loved her, and he would have married her. But in

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Speaker 1: another she couldn't, and not just because most of her

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Speaker 1: people were against it and he wasn't suitable, but he

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Speaker 1: wouldn't have been nearly as wonderful husband as he was

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Speaker 1: a companion to her. He was really ambitious, and Cecil

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Speaker 1: for one, was afraid he'd be a jealous and unkind husband.

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Speaker 1: And it was funny doing the research watching their relationship evolve,

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Speaker 1: because you have all the same petty you know, jealousies

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Speaker 1: and insecurities and little fights that plague any relationship, but

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Speaker 1: they're magnified to this royal scale with state importance. So

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Speaker 1: I think that about wraps up the life of Elizabeth

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Speaker 1: recovered it right, I think we're pretty much done with

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Speaker 1: her for now. That be on the lookout for Mary,

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Speaker 1: Queen of Scott's, and Lord Darnley, and you can be

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Speaker 1: looking for the Stewarts and the Tutors to be popping

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Speaker 1: up and the stuff you missed in history blog can

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00:21:54,720 --> 00:21:56,760
Speaker 1: go to blogs not how stuff works dot com to

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Speaker 1: look for them, or on her homepage at www dot

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Speaker 1: how staff works dot com. For more on this and

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Speaker 1: thousands of other topics, visit how stuff works dot com

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Speaker 1: and be sure to check out the stuff you missed

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Speaker 1: in History Class blog on the how staff works dot

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Speaker 1: com home page