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Speaker 1: Hello everybody, and welcome back to the Psychology of Your Twenties,

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Speaker 1: the podcast where we talk through some of the big

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Speaker 1: life changes and transitions of our twenties and what they

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Speaker 1: mean for our psychology.

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Speaker 2: Hello everybody, or welcome back to the show. Welcome back

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Speaker 2: to the podcast, new listeners, old listeners. Wherever you are

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Speaker 2: in the world, it is so great to have you

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Speaker 2: here back for another episode as we, of course break

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Speaker 2: down the psychology of our twenties. If our twenties could

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Speaker 2: be summarized in any way, I think we could best

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Speaker 2: describe them as the decade of transition. So much about

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Speaker 2: who we are, what we like, our environment, our identity,

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Speaker 2: our relationships as well are in this state of flux,

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Speaker 2: and a lot of that is caused by the very

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Speaker 2: concrete mind stones we face. And a huge one for

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Speaker 2: those of us who went on to go to college

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Speaker 2: or university is graduation. For me, when I was at university,

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Speaker 2: it's still very much felt like an extension of my

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Speaker 2: high school and teenage years, and adulthood was kind of

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Speaker 2: creeping up into the picture on the sidelines. And even

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Speaker 2: though I had a job, even though I was in

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Speaker 2: what felt like a very adult relationship, and I had bills.

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Speaker 2: UNI was this weird vacuum where I still felt like

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Speaker 2: I had a lot of permission to figure things out

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Speaker 2: and be slightly chaotic. But the further you get into it,

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Speaker 2: the more, like I said, adult life creeps in. And

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Speaker 2: then suddenly you've just blinked and you were walking across

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Speaker 2: the stage and you were getting your diploma, And it

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Speaker 2: kind of feels like at that moment you should have

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Speaker 2: all the answers, or at least a few more than

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Speaker 2: you had when you first started. But for so many

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Speaker 2: of us that is the exact opposite. We have no

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Speaker 2: idea what we want to do. We feel increasingly lonely,

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Speaker 2: and sometimes we even get caught up in the nostalgia

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Speaker 2: of those years and what they offered. And I really

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Speaker 2: want to talk about it today, So I'm bringing on

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Speaker 2: a wonderful guest to discuss the psychology of the post

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Speaker 2: graduation blues. Welcome, Liz. Tell the audience about yourself a

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Speaker 2: little bit.

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Speaker 3: Thank you so much for having me. It's so nice

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Speaker 3: to talk with you today. Yes, I am a therapist

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Speaker 3: in the Washington, DC area, and I'm the author of

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Speaker 3: the book. This book is cheaper than therapy, A nonsense

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Speaker 3: guide to improving your mental health. And I work with

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Speaker 3: a lot of young people in their twenties who are

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Speaker 3: just getting out of college and entering the world, and

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Speaker 3: you know, they're coming to this exciting place Washington, d C.

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Speaker 3: But it's not always that easy.

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Speaker 2: Oh my gosh. I can absolutely imagine like Washington, DC especially,

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Speaker 2: I feel like a lot of the people who would

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Speaker 2: be going there would be so ambitious as well.

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Speaker 3: Absolutely, yeah. So I work with so many incredible people

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Speaker 3: who are smart and ambitious, but these same qualities can

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Speaker 3: I can also be challenging when you come to a

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Speaker 3: place like DC where there's so many different options of

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Speaker 3: things to do and it's hard to kind of figure

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Speaker 3: out what your niches and where you want to go.

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Speaker 3: And so I feel really privileged to be able to

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Speaker 3: work with with so many amazing clients to be able

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Speaker 3: to talk about.

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Speaker 2: Some of these issues. And you know what I find

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Speaker 2: really really valuable about that is, like, I'm sure there

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Speaker 2: are like some smart cookies in Washington who are like

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Speaker 2: ready to take on politics in the world, and the

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Speaker 2: fact that what we're talking about today still comes up

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Speaker 2: is just a real testament to how universal this is

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Speaker 2: and what we're talking about is the post graduation blues.

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Speaker 2: Can you kind of speak to what that actually is?

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Speaker 2: I feel like it's in the name, but maybe you

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Speaker 2: can give a bit more color to it.

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Speaker 3: Right, Absolutely, So, in my training as a therapist, I

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Speaker 3: have a lot of experience in working with the grief

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Speaker 3: and loss and breathment, so I often look at the

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Speaker 3: post graduation blues through the lens of loss. The loss.

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Speaker 3: So grief is a natural reaction to anything that you

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Speaker 3: cherish or anything that you love. And for a lot

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Speaker 3: of us, going to college and going to university, I mean,

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Speaker 3: it's a really amazing experience where with peers, we get

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Speaker 3: to talk about big ideas, we get to learn about

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Speaker 3: really interesting things, and have all these new experiences and

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Speaker 3: live in this area where there's a lot of options

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Speaker 3: for exploring hobbies and social interaction and all of these things.

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Speaker 3: So you know, it's for many of us, not to

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Speaker 3: say that there aren't challenges, but for many of us

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Speaker 3: it's it's such a good experience and then all of

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Speaker 3: a sudden after graduation, we're leaving that behind, and that's

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Speaker 3: a real loss. And anytime you have changed plus loss,

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Speaker 3: chances are you're going to experience some feelings of grief.

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Speaker 2: Oh my gosh. Absolutely, And it's the sense of like emptiness,

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Speaker 2: right like you cherished, as you said, something so highly

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Speaker 2: and it may not have been a person or even

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Speaker 2: anything material, but just like a state of being like

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Speaker 2: a time in your life that felt so free and

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Speaker 2: so exciting. And I think like a big reason why

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Speaker 2: we experience like post graduation blues is just like it's

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Speaker 2: just this sense of like time is moving on and

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Speaker 2: I have to change with that. So what are someone

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Speaker 2: like the big feelings to like define this transition.

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Speaker 3: Absolutely, so grief can involve things like so grief. Sometimes

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Speaker 3: people think that grief is an emotion, but grief isn't

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Speaker 3: actually an emotion. Grief is a whole range of feelings,

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Speaker 3: So it could evolve sadness, disappointment, regrets, frustration, irritability, numbness,

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Speaker 3: So it can grief can really be a roller coaster,

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Speaker 3: and this roller coaster is pretty common in the post

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Speaker 3: graduation blues. You know, one day, you might feel like

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Speaker 3: you have it all together and you're excited about your

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Speaker 3: future and you're excited about the possibilities. You know, the

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Speaker 3: next day you might be feeling a lot of anxiety

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Speaker 3: because you're unsure of when you're going to get a job,

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Speaker 3: or how you're going to pay off debt from university,

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Speaker 3: or who you're going to live with. So so it

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Speaker 3: can really feel unsettling because it is this writing, this

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Speaker 3: roller coaster of emotions.

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Speaker 2: And I love that metaphor because that is exactly how

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Speaker 2: I felt when I first graduated Union. And it's like

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Speaker 2: it was a while ago, but I just remember one

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Speaker 2: day I would wake up and be like, oh my gosh,

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Speaker 2: like I am so young, I'm so excited for my future.

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Speaker 2: I could do anything. And then the next day I'd

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Speaker 2: be like, I'm absolutely paralyzed by the fact that I

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Speaker 2: do not have this big it out and everyone around

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Speaker 2: me does. Do you think that like that comparison kind

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Speaker 2: of plays a role.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, absolutely, you know, because every time we talk to

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Speaker 3: someone else, you know, we're not getting the whole picture.

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Speaker 3: If you see someone post something on LinkedIn or social

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Speaker 3: media or Instagram or wherever, you know, you're you're only

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Speaker 3: seeing a very small snap shot to that person's life.

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Speaker 3: And what you're seeing like might look incredible and amazing,

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Speaker 3: but chances are there's so many other factors. And I

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Speaker 3: talk to a lot of clients. And some of these

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Speaker 3: clients from the outside seem like they have the perfect

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Speaker 3: job and the perfect life. But that doesn't mean that

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Speaker 3: everything feels perfect for them.

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Speaker 2: No. I speak about this so much and it seems

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Speaker 2: so obvious. Right If I sat down with somebody a

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Speaker 2: friend of mine, and said, hey, did you know that,

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Speaker 2: like what you see on social media isn't real, they'd

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Speaker 2: be like, yeah, of course, Gemma, of course I know that.

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Speaker 2: But really actually think about it in like the deep

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Speaker 2: parts of yourself, like really hold that information, because it's

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Speaker 2: very easy to be like, yeah, that's not real, but

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Speaker 2: do you actually believe it? Do you actually believe it

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Speaker 2: to the point where you are no longer comparing yourself

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Speaker 2: to it? And you know, again back to my experience,

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Speaker 2: like LinkedIn was like my was enemy number one to

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Speaker 2: me when I was job hunting when I was trying

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Speaker 2: to sort things out. Because if the other component of

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Speaker 2: social media and LinkedIn and those sites is that it

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Speaker 2: is about self promotion, right right, The whole premise is

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Speaker 2: to look your best because people want to look their

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Speaker 2: best for their friends and for people they know, but

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Speaker 2: also for like future connections and like, you know, future bosses.

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Speaker 2: So there is like this whole aspect of it that

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Speaker 2: is performative, and we just don't see it right.

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Speaker 3: Absolutely. We see like the perfectly touched up headshot and

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Speaker 3: the you know, recent job title and all of these things,

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Speaker 3: and we're not we're not seeing the struggles that it

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Speaker 3: took to get there or the whole picture behind the seeds.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and bringing it back to like postgraduation, I feel

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Speaker 2: like it's this huge sometimes like separation between a lot

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Speaker 2: of a lot of people having some part of their

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Speaker 2: future have sorted out or at least seeming like they do,

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Speaker 2: and then there's like other side of people just absolutely

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Speaker 2: having no idea. And it does feel like, you know,

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Speaker 2: like the old the further you get out of school,

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Speaker 2: the more pressure it is to like conform, and the

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Speaker 2: more pressure it is to like have an answer what

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Speaker 2: about Like that ambiguity is so distressing.

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Speaker 3: That's such a good a good point because because I've

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Speaker 3: been thinking about my clients. For some of them who

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Speaker 3: even find their their quote unquote perfect job and then

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Speaker 3: they're in their perfect job and it doesn't feel the

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Speaker 3: way they thought it would feel, or that it works

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Speaker 3: more challenging that they than they thought it would feel.

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Speaker 3: And I think we have all this pressure more than

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Speaker 3: ever to kind of find our niche, right, you know,

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Speaker 3: so many of us were it was drummed into us.

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Speaker 3: You find your passion, find your passion, and that's an

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Speaker 3: incredibly difficult thing to do in this world where there's

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Speaker 3: so many options, there's so many choices. So what I

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Speaker 3: encourage my clients, rather than to find your passion to

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Speaker 3: to follow you your curiosity because the more curious you

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Speaker 3: are about things, and the more you learn about something,

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Speaker 3: the more passionate you're going to become. But you know,

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Speaker 3: finding your passion is such you know, that's such a

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Speaker 3: heavy burden to bear because that's just not an easy

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Speaker 3: thing to do.

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Speaker 2: Oh no, it literally is not. And it's also sometimes accidental, right,

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Speaker 2: Like it is one of those things that when you

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Speaker 2: go looking for it, you never find it. It's like life,

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Speaker 2: do you know what I mean?

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Speaker 3: Right?

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Speaker 2: And so it's like you kind of have to do

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Speaker 2: a lot of trial and error. But when it's like

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Speaker 2: you're so used to the structured environment of schooling where

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Speaker 2: it's like, yes, there is like a timeline for everything,

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Speaker 2: there is this ultimate goal that you're always working towards

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Speaker 2: that like it is a privilege to be able to explore,

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Speaker 2: the privilege to have choices feels very daunting, you know.

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Speaker 2: I'm sure like a lot of your clients come to

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Speaker 2: you and are like, oh, maybe I should go back

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Speaker 2: and do my masters or something like that. Do you

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Speaker 2: think that sometimes we find a lot of confident in

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Speaker 2: like that structure, and that's why we want to return

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Speaker 2: to school, Like that's why we find ourselves like drawn

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Speaker 2: back to those environments.

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Speaker 3: Right absolutely. I think when we get uncertain or unstudy,

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Speaker 3: we crave stability, and we crave security and safety. And

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Speaker 3: for some they think, well, I'll get my master's or

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Speaker 3: I'll go back to school because then I can have

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Speaker 3: that safety and security again at least for a little while.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and then it just puts you in like so

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Speaker 2: much more debt.

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Speaker 3: Right exactly. But but really it's just sort of postponing,

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Speaker 3: postponing that insecurity or that that instability. And I think

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Speaker 3: for some of us, or a lot of work with

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Speaker 3: my clients involves getting comfortable with being uncomfortable and getting

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Speaker 3: getting more comfortable being you know, sitting with discomfort, right,

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Speaker 3: you know, sitting with the fact that like it's okay

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Speaker 3: that I don't have it all figured out. It's okay

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Speaker 3: that I don't know where I'm going to be in

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Speaker 3: five years or ten years, or it's okay that I

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Speaker 3: don't know exactly what I want want my career to

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Speaker 3: look like. And if we can kind of get to

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Speaker 3: that place, it becomes easier to tolerate.

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Speaker 2: And I really like that point of like, I think

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Speaker 2: once the discomfort becomes easier to tolerate, it's less of

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Speaker 2: a factor in your decision making.

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Speaker 3: Right.

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Speaker 2: Have you found that, like, once people are comfortable, they

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Speaker 2: actually find it easier to be like, yeah, I can

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Speaker 2: commit to something, or I can like be more open

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Speaker 2: to opportunity.

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Speaker 3: Exactly. I think it takes being able to sit with

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Speaker 3: discomfort makes it easier to take that first step, because

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Speaker 3: I think when we're when we're so afraid of being uncomfortable,

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Speaker 3: we're sort of looking for the perfect thing, or it's

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Speaker 3: really easy to kind of shut down, right, But what

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Speaker 3: we want to do is be able to take baby

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Speaker 3: steps right and be able to say to ourselves like,

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Speaker 3: I don't have it all figured out, but this job

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Speaker 3: seems interesting, or I like doing these types of tasks,

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Speaker 3: or I'm curious about this field and being able to

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Speaker 3: just take the tiny steps that are going to gradually

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Speaker 3: lead us in the direction of where we want to

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Speaker 3: go personally, professionally.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, And it's like chasing curiosity instead of chasing like

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Speaker 2: perfection and chasing like security. Right, It's like I don't

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Speaker 2: actually need to have it all figured out. That's not

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Speaker 2: my criteria for saying yes. Like my criteria for saying

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Speaker 2: yes is not that this needs to be part of

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Speaker 2: like a huge lifelong plan. It's like, is this like

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Speaker 2: something that I'm excited by right now, right exactly? So, Okay,

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Speaker 2: the loss of like that academic structured environment is a

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Speaker 2: huge component, but another huge part, which I honestly think

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Speaker 2: is like a bigger element of this. And I feel like,

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Speaker 2: you know what I'm gonna say, But it's like relationships, right,

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Speaker 2: It's friendships. And you know, I went to like a

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Speaker 2: university that a lot of people came from out of

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Speaker 2: state to come to, which is not very common in Australia,

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Speaker 2: but I'm sure I think in the US and other

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Speaker 2: places it is more common. And there was like this

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Speaker 2: period like of like six months after I graduated, of

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Speaker 2: like a mass exodus where everyone just like dispersed and

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Speaker 2: I think that really like contributed to a lot of

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Speaker 2: the stress. Why do you think it is that, you know,

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Speaker 2: there's loss of relationships can be so uncomfortable, even if

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Speaker 2: we know it's going to happen.

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Speaker 3: Well college or university, you know, our whole your whole

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Speaker 3: life up until that point, you've always been together with

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Speaker 3: a group of peers. You've always had a group of

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Speaker 3: people in similar circumstances and similar age and and now

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Speaker 3: all of a sudden, like you lose that, and that's

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Speaker 3: that's again kind of coming back to the loss. That's

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Speaker 3: a really big loss of just not having a large

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Speaker 3: group of people who are all going through similar circumstances.

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Speaker 3: You know, then all of a sudden, you're in your

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Speaker 3: first job and you're working with people of all different ages,

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Speaker 3: or you're back at home and you're with your family,

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Speaker 3: and it's and it just doesn't feel the same. There's

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Speaker 3: and even if you're still staying in touch with your friends,

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Speaker 3: you know, you don't get to see them for lunch

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Speaker 3: every day, or you don't get to study with them

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Speaker 3: every afternoon, and so these changes in your routine can

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Speaker 3: really be hard to adjust to.

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Speaker 2: Oh. I totally found that in my circumstances. It was

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Speaker 2: like the shift from having they were part of my routine, right,

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Speaker 2: They're part of our errands, they're part of our daily lives.

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Speaker 2: I would see them like every single day, sometimes multiple

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Speaker 2: times a day because we lived so close. Everybody was

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Speaker 2: doing the same thing. And now it's like the shift

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Speaker 2: to a lot of long distance friendships. That's a huge one, right,

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Speaker 2: But then also it's like this fragmentation where it's like, Okay,

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Speaker 2: some of us are traveling, and some of some of

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Speaker 2: my friends are like move back home with their parents,

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Speaker 2: and some of them are getting married, and some of

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Speaker 2: them are doing their masters or unemployed, and there's no

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Speaker 2: longer this like I think shared touch point, the shed

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Speaker 2: thing that we're all going through, which is UNI, which

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Speaker 2: is college, which is like school. So it's like, you know,

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Speaker 2: I'm sure you obviously know this, but it's like one

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Speaker 2: of the biggest things is like similarity of experiences. Do

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Speaker 2: you see a lot of your clients not just like

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Speaker 2: you know, it's not just that they feel like they're

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Speaker 2: no longer in touch with their friends, but they're losing

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Speaker 2: them alltogether.

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Speaker 3: Absolutely, I also see my clients go through Maybe the

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Speaker 3: way to put it is like friendship drift, where relationships

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Speaker 3: are kind of grow apart and they still treasure that

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Speaker 3: time that they had in school together, but they just

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Speaker 3: aren't as close and the relationship maybe doesn't feel the same,

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Speaker 3: or if they have a reunion a year later, it

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Speaker 3: just doesn't feel the way they expected it to feel.

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Speaker 3: And some friendships even end or or people grow apart,

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Speaker 3: And that doesn't mean that anybody's done anything wrong or

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Speaker 3: that you made a mistake. It just this happens sometimes.

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Speaker 3: And I try to encourage my clients to think about

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Speaker 3: the fact that even if a friendship drifts apart, or

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Speaker 3: even if it ends, it doesn't mean that the time

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Speaker 3: you had together in university wasn't meaningful. That's relationships still

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Speaker 3: could have been incredibly mean, meaningful for that time and

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Speaker 3: for your development and for what you learned about like

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Speaker 3: yourself and the world. But sometimes friendships do change over time.

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Speaker 2: What advice would you have for people going through that?

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Speaker 2: Because I feel like it's normally not just one right,

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Speaker 2: it's normally like a group of people, or it's a

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Speaker 2: whole system that not system, but like a whole friendship

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Speaker 2: structure that kind of falls apart. So what advice would

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Speaker 2: you have for somebody experiencing that.

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Speaker 3: So my first advice would be to name and accept

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Speaker 3: what you're feeling. So, if you're feeling loss or sadness,

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Speaker 3: or disappointment or frustration, to be able to name it

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Speaker 3: and be able to accept it without judgment and be

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Speaker 3: able to say, like, I'm feeling really sad right now,

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Speaker 3: and that's okay, because sometimes what happens is we'll feel

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Speaker 3: sad or we'll feel disappointed, but then we'll shame ourselves

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Speaker 3: for having that feeling, right Like, we'll say, you know,

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Speaker 3: I'm feeling sad, but i shouldn't feel sad because I've

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Speaker 3: got so much going for me, or other people have

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Speaker 3: it worse, and then and then now we feel guilty

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Speaker 3: and sad, which doesn't help anybody, right. So, you know,

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Speaker 3: being able to acknowledge and accept your feelings and without

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Speaker 3: judging them, that can help the feeling kind of move

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Speaker 3: through you a little bit more quickly, and by kind

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Speaker 3: of accepting those emotions and also learning to hold two

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Speaker 3: emotions at the same time can be really important. You know,

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Speaker 3: I'm feeling sad and I'm also feeling excited about the possibilities.

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Speaker 3: You know, both of those things can be true at

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Speaker 3: the same time. And once we can kind of start

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Speaker 3: to interact with our feelings differently, that frees us up

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Speaker 3: to be able to take small actions of like you know,

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Speaker 3: maybe tomorrow I'm going to study at a new coffee shop,

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Speaker 3: or I'm going to a job hunt at a new

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Speaker 3: coffee shop, or I'm going to you know, ask that

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Speaker 3: person to meet up for a walk or so we

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Speaker 3: can start to re establish and create new relationships.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and it's like not just holding to emotions, but

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Speaker 2: holding to truths. Yes, like this, you know, like this

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Speaker 2: friendship is changing, but like you said, it doesn't mean

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Speaker 2: that it's not still valuable. It doesn't mean that we

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Speaker 2: don't still have some form of a relationship. And that

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Speaker 2: was something that a lot of my you know, my

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Speaker 2: own experience has really taught me with like the post

365
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Speaker 2: graduation blues was so much is changing, and sometimes I

366
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Speaker 2: think it feels like it demands you to make big

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Speaker 2: decisions like Okay, me and this person aren't connecting anymore. Well,

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Speaker 2: they're not my friend, like blank blank slate, blank space,

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Speaker 2: Like they're not my friend. This is all too much

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Speaker 2: and just to cut people off or to feel very

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Speaker 2: like emotional and I think it is important to yet

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Speaker 2: again be able to recognize not just what you had,

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Speaker 2: but what they still offer you, just in a lesser capacity.

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Speaker 2: And nothing is I say this to people all the

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Speaker 2: time and to myself all the time, nothing is ever

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Speaker 2: going to come close to the relationship that you have

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Speaker 2: with your university or your college friends, especially if you

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Speaker 2: lived in the same house with them, especially if you

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Speaker 2: lived in the same dorm or in the same like

380
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Speaker 2: sorority or fraternity house. Like that is an incredibly heightened

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Speaker 2: artificial way of like being around people right, Like, you

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Speaker 2: do not see that anyone else, maybe than like marriage,

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Speaker 2: and so you might not find relationships that are as

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Speaker 2: close and as like intense, but you might find people

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Speaker 2: who like fit better with who you are. Now, does

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Speaker 2: that make sense?

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Speaker 3: I love that, Yeah, to be willing to adapt and

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Speaker 3: be okay with feelings with relationships that don't feel the

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Speaker 3: same as they did when you were in a university.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, because it's intense. Like, Yeah, it's so intense. R

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Speaker 2: It's incredibly artificial to have that level of like contact.

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Speaker 3: You get to know people really quickly, and you know

393
00:21:07,200 --> 00:21:09,520
Speaker 3: so much about them, and you know the routines, and

394
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Speaker 3: it just does it always happen when you're after graduation?

395
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Speaker 2: Yeah, because who has time to spend every day together, right,

396
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Speaker 2: because you're at work, sometimes you're at multiple jobs, and

397
00:21:18,520 --> 00:21:21,359
Speaker 2: you have you know, people meet their partners. That's a

398
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Speaker 2: big one. I think that comes with like postgraduation blues,

399
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Speaker 2: is the shift from having a wide group of friends

400
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Speaker 2: to maybe having you know your partner who often comes first,

401
00:21:31,720 --> 00:21:34,639
Speaker 2: and then the friends around that, and it's just like

402
00:21:34,640 --> 00:21:38,000
Speaker 2: a whole relational shift. So we're going to take a

403
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Speaker 2: break now, but when we come back, I want to

404
00:21:39,920 --> 00:21:42,920
Speaker 2: talk to you about how we can cope with that shift,

405
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Speaker 2: how we can embrace fear, and some of your advice.

406
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Speaker 2: So when it comes to postgraduation blues, this might be

407
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Speaker 2: an impossible question, but as a therapist, how long do

408
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Speaker 2: you typically see it lasting?

409
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Speaker 3: That is a challenging question because post graduation blues, like

410
00:22:05,760 --> 00:22:09,119
Speaker 3: I mentioned before, it's very similar to grief, and grief

411
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Speaker 3: is going to be very individual individual. It's going to

412
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Speaker 3: depend on that person's circumstances. It's going to depend on

413
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Speaker 3: how they've handled losses before, it's going to depend on

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Speaker 3: their support systems. But I would say, if you if

415
00:22:23,920 --> 00:22:27,560
Speaker 3: the post graduation blues are really impacting your ability to function,

416
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Speaker 3: you know, after a couple of weeks or after a

417
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Speaker 3: month or so, or I mean, I mean, honestly, if

418
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Speaker 3: you're suffering and it's really impacting your ability to you know, function,

419
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Speaker 3: you know, don't hesitate to reach out for support. Whether

420
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Speaker 3: that's individual therapy or group therapy can actually be really

421
00:22:45,240 --> 00:22:48,560
Speaker 3: fantastic because you get the benefits of therapy, but you're

422
00:22:48,600 --> 00:22:53,440
Speaker 3: also healing in a group, which can have unique, unique benefits.

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Speaker 3: There's also really great books out there on self development. Uh,

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Speaker 3: you know, I would really encourage folks that if they

425
00:23:02,160 --> 00:23:05,800
Speaker 3: are having a hard time and it's really impacting their

426
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Speaker 3: ability to job search or to engage in self care,

427
00:23:09,840 --> 00:23:12,919
Speaker 3: or they're sleep suffering, or they're not eating well, or

428
00:23:12,960 --> 00:23:16,320
Speaker 3: they're drinking too much or engaging you really relying on

429
00:23:16,359 --> 00:23:18,760
Speaker 3: mood altering substances, you know, that might be a sign

430
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Speaker 3: that that okay, I've got to got to get some support.

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Speaker 2: Oh yeah, absolutely, And I feel like it's those are

432
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Speaker 2: like all big, you know, big indicators that there is

433
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Speaker 2: a level of coping that perhaps you're not adjusting to.

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Speaker 2: And that's totally okay, it's a huge change, but I

435
00:23:35,880 --> 00:23:39,120
Speaker 2: do feel like if like after a year, you're still

436
00:23:39,160 --> 00:23:42,639
Speaker 2: being you're still thinking about, oh, like I wish I

437
00:23:42,720 --> 00:23:45,800
Speaker 2: was back there. There's such a deep sense of longing

438
00:23:45,840 --> 00:23:48,919
Speaker 2: of like I would give anything to have that again,

439
00:23:49,280 --> 00:23:54,359
Speaker 2: or always reminiscing not being able to move on. I

440
00:23:54,400 --> 00:23:57,840
Speaker 2: feel like most of the time those feelings should fade

441
00:23:57,840 --> 00:24:01,800
Speaker 2: by that timeline, right Like amongst the people around me,

442
00:24:02,040 --> 00:24:04,280
Speaker 2: it was, you know, everyone still has those moments of

443
00:24:04,320 --> 00:24:06,840
Speaker 2: being like wow, like I really missed the structure of union,

444
00:24:06,840 --> 00:24:08,960
Speaker 2: and I miss my friends, and I missed like my life.

445
00:24:09,560 --> 00:24:11,360
Speaker 2: But after like a year, it's kind of like what now,

446
00:24:11,400 --> 00:24:13,360
Speaker 2: I kind of like my new life.

447
00:24:13,080 --> 00:24:16,120
Speaker 3: At that point. I would love to see someone investing

448
00:24:16,160 --> 00:24:19,720
Speaker 3: in their new life and setting up new goals and

449
00:24:19,720 --> 00:24:23,240
Speaker 3: and figuring out other things that they that can bring

450
00:24:23,280 --> 00:24:25,199
Speaker 3: them excitement and joy and meaning.

451
00:24:25,880 --> 00:24:29,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's like you've had the time to mourn, hopefully,

452
00:24:29,160 --> 00:24:31,800
Speaker 2: and then you've had the like the time to also

453
00:24:32,400 --> 00:24:35,600
Speaker 2: perhaps be a little bit more proactive and also just settle,

454
00:24:35,960 --> 00:24:39,040
Speaker 2: just settle in hard emotions, Like I feel like that

455
00:24:39,200 --> 00:24:42,080
Speaker 2: is a part of I feel like, you know, I'm

456
00:24:42,160 --> 00:24:44,159
Speaker 2: guilty of doing this as well, where it's always like

457
00:24:44,440 --> 00:24:47,680
Speaker 2: what can you be doing? Actively to like help yourself

458
00:24:47,720 --> 00:24:50,520
Speaker 2: and to heal and to move forward. It's like sometimes

459
00:24:50,560 --> 00:24:54,640
Speaker 2: it is just time, and it is just like feeling

460
00:24:54,720 --> 00:24:57,320
Speaker 2: again comfortable with the discomfort right.

461
00:24:58,080 --> 00:25:00,639
Speaker 3: Right, and and also accepting the there's going to be

462
00:25:00,680 --> 00:25:04,560
Speaker 3: a part of you that is going to miss university forever,

463
00:25:04,840 --> 00:25:09,639
Speaker 3: that that that that grief is going to be there

464
00:25:09,680 --> 00:25:12,680
Speaker 3: because you really cared about that time of your life

465
00:25:12,760 --> 00:25:14,760
Speaker 3: and that was a really meaningful time of your life.

466
00:25:14,880 --> 00:25:16,679
Speaker 3: And and there is going to be a small part of

467
00:25:16,720 --> 00:25:19,119
Speaker 3: you or a part of you that's going to that

468
00:25:19,720 --> 00:25:22,919
Speaker 3: is going to forever miss that and and that's okay.

469
00:25:23,000 --> 00:25:25,680
Speaker 3: The reason that it's that you miss it is because

470
00:25:26,200 --> 00:25:27,720
Speaker 3: it was it was important to you.

471
00:25:29,000 --> 00:25:32,960
Speaker 2: I really like that sentiment. What kind of strategies or

472
00:25:32,960 --> 00:25:38,040
Speaker 2: coping mechanisms do you think that recent graduates can use

473
00:25:38,119 --> 00:25:42,960
Speaker 2: to kind of manage the feelings of uncertainty, anxiety, but

474
00:25:43,119 --> 00:25:48,760
Speaker 2: also nostalgia and the grief as you spoke about, right.

475
00:25:50,240 --> 00:25:53,920
Speaker 3: So I always encourage my clients if they're feeling not

476
00:25:53,960 --> 00:25:56,200
Speaker 3: feeling right, they know that their mental health isn't where

477
00:25:56,200 --> 00:25:58,439
Speaker 3: they want it to be, to really pay attention to

478
00:25:58,480 --> 00:26:01,520
Speaker 3: the basics. And those are things, like you know, try

479
00:26:01,560 --> 00:26:04,639
Speaker 3: to move your body every day in some way, drink water,

480
00:26:04,840 --> 00:26:09,320
Speaker 3: get outside, pay attention to sleep, be really mindful about

481
00:26:09,359 --> 00:26:13,359
Speaker 3: alcohol use because that can intensify feelings of anxiety and depression.

482
00:26:14,080 --> 00:26:16,320
Speaker 3: So so start with the basics and make sure you're

483
00:26:16,320 --> 00:26:20,200
Speaker 3: getting some social outlets or some outlets to be creative.

484
00:26:21,600 --> 00:26:25,040
Speaker 3: So that's a great place to start. I would also

485
00:26:25,520 --> 00:26:28,920
Speaker 3: suggest that kind of what like we talked about too,

486
00:26:29,040 --> 00:26:31,040
Speaker 3: to start to learn how to engage with your emotions

487
00:26:31,080 --> 00:26:33,720
Speaker 3: a little bit differently, to start to name what you're feeling,

488
00:26:33,960 --> 00:26:37,080
Speaker 3: to accept what you're feeling, don't judge what you're feeling,

489
00:26:37,680 --> 00:26:41,600
Speaker 3: And also really pay attention to your inner dialogue because

490
00:26:41,640 --> 00:26:44,880
Speaker 3: sometimes the way we talk to ourselves can be incredibly

491
00:26:45,040 --> 00:26:50,000
Speaker 3: harsh and critical and mean. So I really encourage my

492
00:26:50,040 --> 00:26:53,000
Speaker 3: clients to pay attention to how they're talking to themselves

493
00:26:53,080 --> 00:26:56,560
Speaker 3: and just and to ask themselves, you know what would

494
00:26:56,560 --> 00:26:59,080
Speaker 3: I tell a good friend, you know what advice would

495
00:26:59,119 --> 00:27:02,720
Speaker 3: I give them? And to try to start treating themselves

496
00:27:02,760 --> 00:27:03,480
Speaker 3: like they're a friend.

497
00:27:04,520 --> 00:27:06,919
Speaker 2: I love that advice and I say that to people

498
00:27:06,960 --> 00:27:09,360
Speaker 2: all the time, where it's like it's so much easier

499
00:27:09,960 --> 00:27:13,040
Speaker 2: to be kind and to be compassionate and to be

500
00:27:13,200 --> 00:27:17,159
Speaker 2: forgiving to other people and never as easy to do

501
00:27:17,240 --> 00:27:21,000
Speaker 2: it to ourselves. So it's like, Okay, if your best

502
00:27:21,000 --> 00:27:22,919
Speaker 2: friend came to you and was like, I'm really worried

503
00:27:22,960 --> 00:27:26,600
Speaker 2: that I'm never going to find my dream job, what

504
00:27:26,640 --> 00:27:29,000
Speaker 2: would you say to them? You would probably say, like,

505
00:27:29,280 --> 00:27:32,280
Speaker 2: maybe your dream job doesn't exist yet, maybe it's going

506
00:27:32,320 --> 00:27:35,199
Speaker 2: to take some time. Maybe it isn't about what a

507
00:27:35,280 --> 00:27:37,880
Speaker 2: dream job. Maybe it's about the life you create outside

508
00:27:37,920 --> 00:27:40,600
Speaker 2: of work. Like there is so much wisdom that we

509
00:27:40,680 --> 00:27:45,160
Speaker 2: save for other people that would be so valuable for ourselves.

510
00:27:46,920 --> 00:27:49,000
Speaker 2: I always find that. I And the other thing I

511
00:27:49,040 --> 00:27:54,959
Speaker 2: always say is like, especially with anxiety, anxiety and excitement

512
00:27:55,040 --> 00:27:58,119
Speaker 2: feel very similar, Like you would they have like the

513
00:27:58,160 --> 00:28:01,679
Speaker 2: same I'm true, don't they have like this physiological like

514
00:28:01,760 --> 00:28:04,000
Speaker 2: physical origin.

515
00:28:04,119 --> 00:28:06,480
Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, your hands start getting bits sweaty, get

516
00:28:06,520 --> 00:28:09,280
Speaker 3: those butterflies in your stomach, and you have physical symptoms

517
00:28:09,320 --> 00:28:11,520
Speaker 3: of anxiety or really similar to excitement.

518
00:28:12,000 --> 00:28:14,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, And so I'm always like, Okay, Yeah, that feeling

519
00:28:14,600 --> 00:28:18,760
Speaker 2: could be anxiety, like you're anxious about finding your own way,

520
00:28:18,800 --> 00:28:23,000
Speaker 2: you're anxious about feeling lost, or anxious about feeling lonely,

521
00:28:23,400 --> 00:28:26,080
Speaker 2: or you could be excited about the fact that you

522
00:28:26,119 --> 00:28:28,400
Speaker 2: don't Now you don't have this huge time commitment anymore.

523
00:28:29,040 --> 00:28:33,520
Speaker 2: Now like you could go traveling. Now you do have

524
00:28:33,760 --> 00:28:37,320
Speaker 2: more freedom to progress in your career rather than waiting

525
00:28:37,480 --> 00:28:41,640
Speaker 2: to graduate before you really like get started. Now you

526
00:28:41,760 --> 00:28:47,400
Speaker 2: do have time to really choose friends that are really important,

527
00:28:47,480 --> 00:28:49,560
Speaker 2: you know, that are maybe more suited to that part

528
00:28:49,560 --> 00:28:52,600
Speaker 2: of your life that you're in, rather than just like convenient,

529
00:28:52,720 --> 00:28:56,560
Speaker 2: as hard as that sounds, and more time to just

530
00:28:56,640 --> 00:29:05,040
Speaker 2: like see life beyond education, because I really find that

531
00:29:05,080 --> 00:29:09,160
Speaker 2: what's so tricky about postgraduation is it is the first

532
00:29:09,160 --> 00:29:13,560
Speaker 2: time ever that we are not within an educational environment.

533
00:29:14,200 --> 00:29:17,600
Speaker 2: We think this is our first time spending more than

534
00:29:17,720 --> 00:29:22,480
Speaker 2: like four months since out of school like that is

535
00:29:22,560 --> 00:29:26,240
Speaker 2: going to be scary. It's like it's like a zoo animal,

536
00:29:26,280 --> 00:29:28,920
Speaker 2: like finally being released into the wild. Right. Yeah.

537
00:29:29,000 --> 00:29:31,680
Speaker 3: I have a lot of clients who really struggle with

538
00:29:32,800 --> 00:29:38,160
Speaker 3: not receiving regular feedback because their whole life, going through school,

539
00:29:38,520 --> 00:29:43,080
Speaker 3: going through university, they at every quarter, every assignment, every

540
00:29:43,480 --> 00:29:45,000
Speaker 3: at the end of every semester, at the end of

541
00:29:45,080 --> 00:29:47,520
Speaker 3: every year, they knew exactly where they stood. They got

542
00:29:47,520 --> 00:29:50,840
Speaker 3: a grade, or they got a marks on a paper,

543
00:29:50,960 --> 00:29:54,200
Speaker 3: or they got feedback from their professor, from their teacher,

544
00:29:54,680 --> 00:29:57,640
Speaker 3: and now they're in this in the work worlds or

545
00:29:57,680 --> 00:30:01,120
Speaker 3: their job hunting and there's no regular feedback. There's no

546
00:30:01,760 --> 00:30:05,240
Speaker 3: clear indicator of like how am I doing? And that's

547
00:30:05,320 --> 00:30:06,560
Speaker 3: incredibly hard not.

548
00:30:06,600 --> 00:30:07,160
Speaker 2: To get that.

549
00:30:07,760 --> 00:30:10,840
Speaker 3: And some of my work with clients involves learning how

550
00:30:10,840 --> 00:30:13,600
Speaker 3: to give ourselves feedback and how to reflect on like

551
00:30:13,640 --> 00:30:15,400
Speaker 3: what am I proud of? Or what did I do

552
00:30:15,520 --> 00:30:19,480
Speaker 3: well today? And that's not easy because for our entire

553
00:30:19,600 --> 00:30:22,320
Speaker 3: lives up until that point, we've been getting feedback in

554
00:30:22,360 --> 00:30:23,800
Speaker 3: an academic setting.

555
00:30:25,280 --> 00:30:27,640
Speaker 2: That now that you've said that, it's just like really

556
00:30:27,760 --> 00:30:30,160
Speaker 2: hit me because I see that in so many people

557
00:30:30,200 --> 00:30:33,680
Speaker 2: around me and like people who message me and people

558
00:30:33,680 --> 00:30:38,600
Speaker 2: who are like my friends, And you're totally right. How

559
00:30:38,640 --> 00:30:40,800
Speaker 2: do we know that we're doing a good job. We

560
00:30:40,880 --> 00:30:43,440
Speaker 2: have absolutely no like barameter for it. We have no

561
00:30:43,560 --> 00:30:48,280
Speaker 2: way of providing ourselves with the validation ourselves, And that's

562
00:30:48,320 --> 00:30:53,600
Speaker 2: like crazy. How do you suggest people like check in

563
00:30:53,680 --> 00:30:56,480
Speaker 2: with themselves and give feedback to themselves.

564
00:30:58,080 --> 00:31:01,520
Speaker 3: So one activity to try if you're interested in journaling,

565
00:31:01,600 --> 00:31:06,440
Speaker 3: or even if you're not that into journaling but just

566
00:31:06,480 --> 00:31:07,920
Speaker 3: want to drop a few things down at the end

567
00:31:07,920 --> 00:31:10,360
Speaker 3: of the day, But to ask yourself at the end

568
00:31:10,360 --> 00:31:12,680
Speaker 3: of the day, you know, what were my wins? You

569
00:31:12,720 --> 00:31:15,200
Speaker 3: know what am I proud of? And your winds don't

570
00:31:15,240 --> 00:31:17,120
Speaker 3: have to be huge. It doesn't have to be like

571
00:31:17,200 --> 00:31:19,480
Speaker 3: I got a job. You know, it could be your

572
00:31:19,480 --> 00:31:23,360
Speaker 3: wind could be I went on a walk today, I

573
00:31:23,440 --> 00:31:26,760
Speaker 3: updated my resume, I met a friend for coffee, I

574
00:31:26,800 --> 00:31:29,920
Speaker 3: cleaned my kitchen. I mean, your wins could be anything,

575
00:31:30,080 --> 00:31:32,360
Speaker 3: but just things that you're proud of that you did

576
00:31:32,520 --> 00:31:36,480
Speaker 3: that created some positive momentum. And to spend some time

577
00:31:36,520 --> 00:31:39,880
Speaker 3: reflecting on those things and even writing them down, because

578
00:31:39,880 --> 00:31:42,240
Speaker 3: it's so incredibly easy to look at our to do

579
00:31:42,360 --> 00:31:45,360
Speaker 3: list and to think, oh my gosh, I have so

580
00:31:45,440 --> 00:31:47,800
Speaker 3: many more things that so many things I didn't get to,

581
00:31:48,120 --> 00:31:50,200
Speaker 3: or I have so much more I need to do,

582
00:31:50,760 --> 00:31:53,160
Speaker 3: and then we forget to actually take stock of what

583
00:31:53,160 --> 00:31:56,160
Speaker 3: we actually did, and it's important to give ourselves credit

584
00:31:56,320 --> 00:31:59,960
Speaker 3: for those things and to reflect on what we are atchief.

585
00:32:01,080 --> 00:32:05,600
Speaker 2: Oh absolutely. And the other thing is like, actually make

586
00:32:05,880 --> 00:32:08,200
Speaker 2: goals for the next year, because a lot of the

587
00:32:08,240 --> 00:32:10,200
Speaker 2: time you end up meeting them and I know that

588
00:32:10,240 --> 00:32:14,720
Speaker 2: sounds wild, but once you have made it, obviously the

589
00:32:14,760 --> 00:32:17,120
Speaker 2: goals cannot be like, I want to be a millionaire

590
00:32:17,200 --> 00:32:21,040
Speaker 2: by twenty twenty five, because that's not achievable. But if

591
00:32:21,080 --> 00:32:22,440
Speaker 2: you were like, yeah, I really want to have a

592
00:32:22,520 --> 00:32:25,440
Speaker 2: job by this time next year, I really want to

593
00:32:25,480 --> 00:32:30,160
Speaker 2: have one thousand dollars in savings, whatever it is, you

594
00:32:30,200 --> 00:32:33,040
Speaker 2: will often find that there will come a point where

595
00:32:33,040 --> 00:32:35,479
Speaker 2: you will get back to get to look back at

596
00:32:35,520 --> 00:32:37,920
Speaker 2: that entry and be like, Okay, I actually did that,

597
00:32:38,400 --> 00:32:40,760
Speaker 2: and there is a sense of pride there that feels

598
00:32:40,920 --> 00:32:44,280
Speaker 2: very similar to the pride you would get when you

599
00:32:44,280 --> 00:32:48,320
Speaker 2: got an a or when you completed something like an

600
00:32:48,400 --> 00:32:53,480
Speaker 2: assignment or an exam. It might not be the same

601
00:32:54,240 --> 00:32:55,920
Speaker 2: in the same environment, it might not be of the

602
00:32:55,960 --> 00:32:59,760
Speaker 2: same like the same mistakes, but I feel like also

603
00:33:00,800 --> 00:33:03,400
Speaker 2: baseline for what feels like an achievement also kind of

604
00:33:04,160 --> 00:33:05,920
Speaker 2: decreases in a sense as well.

605
00:33:06,000 --> 00:33:09,760
Speaker 3: Right, Yeah, I love that being able to set realistic

606
00:33:10,000 --> 00:33:13,640
Speaker 3: goals and get that sense of accomplishment when you meet

607
00:33:13,680 --> 00:33:15,960
Speaker 3: that goal or when you take action towards that goal.

608
00:33:16,720 --> 00:33:18,800
Speaker 2: Well, that really leads to my next question. You've like

609
00:33:18,840 --> 00:33:22,360
Speaker 2: provided me with the segue, which is, you know, if

610
00:33:22,360 --> 00:33:25,840
Speaker 2: you are a racing graduate, how do you set realistic

611
00:33:25,840 --> 00:33:30,560
Speaker 2: goals and expectations about yourself and your life during this

612
00:33:30,800 --> 00:33:34,640
Speaker 2: transitional period. How do you stop yourself from setting me

613
00:33:34,840 --> 00:33:36,880
Speaker 2: I want to be a millionaire goal or I want

614
00:33:36,880 --> 00:33:37,920
Speaker 2: to be a CEO goal.

615
00:33:38,360 --> 00:33:41,320
Speaker 3: So one thing I encourage my clients to do is

616
00:33:41,400 --> 00:33:44,280
Speaker 3: to take a look at their values and to spend

617
00:33:44,360 --> 00:33:47,480
Speaker 3: some time identifying what their values are, because that can

618
00:33:47,560 --> 00:33:51,480
Speaker 3: help shape what goals they want to achieve. For example,

619
00:33:51,520 --> 00:33:54,760
Speaker 3: if they value travel, then you know, that might impact

620
00:33:55,320 --> 00:33:58,840
Speaker 3: what types of goals they set, or if they value

621
00:33:58,840 --> 00:34:02,560
Speaker 3: community or they value financial stability. You know, once you

622
00:34:02,600 --> 00:34:05,800
Speaker 3: identify your values, that can really help be a guidepost

623
00:34:05,960 --> 00:34:08,799
Speaker 3: for setting goals that are going to be in line

624
00:34:08,800 --> 00:34:12,440
Speaker 3: with what you want and are going to be realistic. Also,

625
00:34:12,680 --> 00:34:14,520
Speaker 3: I just want to throw out there too that if

626
00:34:14,560 --> 00:34:16,680
Speaker 3: you set an ambitious goal and you don't meet it,

627
00:34:16,880 --> 00:34:19,120
Speaker 3: that's okay. Maybe you've got part of the way there.

628
00:34:19,200 --> 00:34:21,759
Speaker 3: So so I think it's okay to to you know,

629
00:34:21,760 --> 00:34:23,799
Speaker 3: if you don't meet your goal, that's not the worst thing,

630
00:34:24,040 --> 00:34:27,200
Speaker 3: worst thing in the world, because chances are you you

631
00:34:27,320 --> 00:34:29,280
Speaker 3: definitely made progress.

632
00:34:30,200 --> 00:34:32,560
Speaker 2: And you know what, this might sound a little bit

633
00:34:32,719 --> 00:34:34,560
Speaker 2: wild to say, but there are a lot of people

634
00:34:34,560 --> 00:34:37,480
Speaker 2: out there who never that like never would have dreamed

635
00:34:37,480 --> 00:34:40,080
Speaker 2: of even setting that goal. Who never would have even

636
00:34:40,120 --> 00:34:43,520
Speaker 2: thought it possible to suggest that to themselves. So it's

637
00:34:43,520 --> 00:34:46,000
Speaker 2: pretty amazing that you were that ambitious in the first place.

638
00:34:46,040 --> 00:34:50,080
Speaker 2: It shows a lot at Gusto, Like, yeah, absolutely. And

639
00:34:50,360 --> 00:34:53,919
Speaker 2: the other thing that I always think about is what's

640
00:34:53,960 --> 00:34:58,279
Speaker 2: the rush, Like what's the rush? You know what? Like

641
00:34:58,480 --> 00:35:01,880
Speaker 2: the well, the average agre to graduate in the US's

642
00:35:02,120 --> 00:35:04,320
Speaker 2: twenty two, twenty two, twenty.

643
00:35:04,080 --> 00:35:06,000
Speaker 3: Fo Yeah, that sounds about right, twenty one twenty two,

644
00:35:06,160 --> 00:35:07,200
Speaker 3: somewhere in that range.

645
00:35:07,880 --> 00:35:11,239
Speaker 2: That's wild to me because that is so young. That

646
00:35:11,400 --> 00:35:12,480
Speaker 2: is so young.

647
00:35:12,960 --> 00:35:14,239
Speaker 3: There's a lot of life to live.

648
00:35:14,640 --> 00:35:16,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I'm sure you'll probably you would probably look

649
00:35:16,920 --> 00:35:18,680
Speaker 2: at some of those people and then like you are,

650
00:35:18,800 --> 00:35:21,040
Speaker 2: you're a child, like you, I wish I was that

651
00:35:21,120 --> 00:35:23,479
Speaker 2: young again, Like you have no idea, there's so much time.

652
00:35:23,960 --> 00:35:26,600
Speaker 2: And I always talk about like the seasons of life,

653
00:35:26,640 --> 00:35:29,680
Speaker 2: and like you are at like you are in like

654
00:35:29,840 --> 00:35:34,040
Speaker 2: season one of your like twenty one part TV series,

655
00:35:34,239 --> 00:35:36,879
Speaker 2: like you are only just beginning. There are so many

656
00:35:36,960 --> 00:35:41,279
Speaker 2: relationships and so much character development to happen, like so

657
00:35:41,360 --> 00:35:44,960
Speaker 2: many plot twists. Don't you want to save some of

658
00:35:45,000 --> 00:35:47,080
Speaker 2: the best things for a little while later, like if

659
00:35:47,080 --> 00:35:49,680
Speaker 2: you achieved everything you wanted within the next like two

660
00:35:49,719 --> 00:35:52,440
Speaker 2: to three years, like what's next?

661
00:35:52,640 --> 00:35:55,480
Speaker 3: Yeah, And you bring up such a good point. Something

662
00:35:55,520 --> 00:35:58,400
Speaker 3: I see a lot with my clients is a frustration

663
00:35:58,640 --> 00:36:03,080
Speaker 3: where they really want to do meaningful work, but oftentimes

664
00:36:03,120 --> 00:36:07,080
Speaker 3: your first job out of college or university, the task

665
00:36:07,160 --> 00:36:09,600
Speaker 3: that you're going to be given may not feel that meaningful,

666
00:36:09,680 --> 00:36:13,960
Speaker 3: that they might feel kind of boring or into inconsequential

667
00:36:14,080 --> 00:36:17,200
Speaker 3: and being able to have patients to realize that this

668
00:36:17,320 --> 00:36:19,239
Speaker 3: is a stepping zone, and this is a way to

669
00:36:19,239 --> 00:36:22,040
Speaker 3: get experience, and this is a way to learn what

670
00:36:22,080 --> 00:36:23,960
Speaker 3: you do like in a work environment and what you

671
00:36:23,960 --> 00:36:26,040
Speaker 3: don't like in a work environment, Like all of this

672
00:36:26,120 --> 00:36:28,440
Speaker 3: is really valuable information that you're going to use in

673
00:36:28,480 --> 00:36:31,920
Speaker 3: the future. And to be okay with the fact that

674
00:36:32,000 --> 00:36:34,320
Speaker 3: this isn't a perfect fit right now, but you're getting

675
00:36:34,320 --> 00:36:37,360
Speaker 3: this information that's going to help you in your next step,

676
00:36:37,719 --> 00:36:40,520
Speaker 3: get you closer and closer to what you really want

677
00:36:40,560 --> 00:36:41,000
Speaker 3: to be doing.

678
00:36:41,560 --> 00:36:43,560
Speaker 2: I love that point because I think that's something that

679
00:36:43,640 --> 00:36:47,880
Speaker 2: I rarely speak about on the show. It is the

680
00:36:47,960 --> 00:36:52,040
Speaker 2: drive not just for money, but for purpose and for meaning.

681
00:36:52,840 --> 00:36:55,319
Speaker 2: And we are like such a lucky generation that that

682
00:36:55,480 --> 00:36:58,520
Speaker 2: is something that we could we understand is like on

683
00:36:58,560 --> 00:37:01,680
Speaker 2: the cards for us, right the choice of meaningful work

684
00:37:01,800 --> 00:37:04,799
Speaker 2: is something that we do have available to us. But

685
00:37:05,200 --> 00:37:10,000
Speaker 2: sometimes you don't know what your mission is yet, and

686
00:37:10,040 --> 00:37:12,759
Speaker 2: there is an experience waiting for you in that dead

687
00:37:12,880 --> 00:37:16,120
Speaker 2: end job or waiting for you in that internship or

688
00:37:16,120 --> 00:37:21,000
Speaker 2: in that graduate role. That is like the point where

689
00:37:21,080 --> 00:37:23,640
Speaker 2: you turn over the page, and if you go out

690
00:37:23,640 --> 00:37:27,480
Speaker 2: looking for meanings straight away, you're going to actually end

691
00:37:27,560 --> 00:37:30,560
Speaker 2: up missing the thing that would have provided you with

692
00:37:30,640 --> 00:37:34,080
Speaker 2: that gateway. So it's kind of like just take the

693
00:37:34,120 --> 00:37:36,960
Speaker 2: experiences for what they are in a way, like take

694
00:37:37,000 --> 00:37:40,319
Speaker 2: the experiences for what they might be leading you to, Like,

695
00:37:40,400 --> 00:37:45,719
Speaker 2: not everything is the final destination. That's like exactly, I

696
00:37:45,760 --> 00:37:48,399
Speaker 2: think that's for everything. I want to wrap up by

697
00:37:48,400 --> 00:37:53,000
Speaker 2: asking you for one final piece of advice or some

698
00:37:53,040 --> 00:37:55,440
Speaker 2: words of wisdom that you would get you would give

699
00:37:55,520 --> 00:37:59,560
Speaker 2: to somebody listening right now who has graduated, maybe in

700
00:37:59,600 --> 00:38:01,920
Speaker 2: the last two months last year. He was like, I

701
00:38:01,960 --> 00:38:05,160
Speaker 2: have no idea what I am doing. What would you

702
00:38:05,239 --> 00:38:06,160
Speaker 2: what would you say to them?

703
00:38:06,600 --> 00:38:10,479
Speaker 3: I would encourage them to practice self compassion. So self

704
00:38:10,520 --> 00:38:14,600
Speaker 3: compassion was developed by doctor Kristin Neff, and it's a

705
00:38:14,640 --> 00:38:17,839
Speaker 3: really wonderful concept because she talks a lot about how

706
00:38:17,880 --> 00:38:21,400
Speaker 3: we've been taught to chase self esteem. But self esteem

707
00:38:21,480 --> 00:38:24,680
Speaker 3: often really involves how we stack up against other people,

708
00:38:24,880 --> 00:38:29,719
Speaker 3: and it involves external accomplishments and checking the boxes, and

709
00:38:29,800 --> 00:38:32,160
Speaker 3: so self esteem is going to rise and fall depending

710
00:38:32,200 --> 00:38:34,359
Speaker 3: on what's going on in our world and how we're

711
00:38:34,400 --> 00:38:38,640
Speaker 3: stacking up against other people. Self compassion, on the other hand,

712
00:38:38,920 --> 00:38:41,680
Speaker 3: is more about the relationship that we have with ourselves,

713
00:38:42,040 --> 00:38:44,440
Speaker 3: and it's about treating ourselves like a friend, like we

714
00:38:44,480 --> 00:38:47,920
Speaker 3: talked about earlier, and it's about really offering ourselves some

715
00:38:47,960 --> 00:38:51,600
Speaker 3: compassion and some grace. And when you start to practice

716
00:38:51,600 --> 00:38:55,680
Speaker 3: self compassion, some really wonderful things can happen. It's much

717
00:38:55,680 --> 00:38:59,480
Speaker 3: easier to maintain motivation because you're not getting completely defeated

718
00:38:59,520 --> 00:39:03,160
Speaker 3: when you hit get a curveball. So I really want

719
00:39:03,160 --> 00:39:05,760
Speaker 3: people to start paying attention to how they're treating themselves

720
00:39:05,800 --> 00:39:09,120
Speaker 3: and how they're talking to themselves and to treat themselves

721
00:39:09,160 --> 00:39:10,000
Speaker 3: with self compassion.

722
00:39:10,880 --> 00:39:13,680
Speaker 2: I love that what's one way that somebody could show

723
00:39:13,719 --> 00:39:16,560
Speaker 2: themselves some self compassion after listening to this.

724
00:39:16,880 --> 00:39:19,759
Speaker 3: One way to show yourself self compassion is that if

725
00:39:19,760 --> 00:39:23,560
Speaker 3: you're feeling frustrated or disappointed, or you feel like you've

726
00:39:23,600 --> 00:39:27,360
Speaker 3: made a mistake, is to ask yourself, you know, what

727
00:39:27,480 --> 00:39:29,160
Speaker 3: what would I say to a friend? What would I

728
00:39:29,200 --> 00:39:33,320
Speaker 3: say to someone else? And to take that advice for yourself.

729
00:39:33,880 --> 00:39:37,680
Speaker 3: You know, for example, if I do some writing and

730
00:39:37,680 --> 00:39:40,480
Speaker 3: it doesn't turn out well or it doesn't get well received,

731
00:39:40,960 --> 00:39:42,560
Speaker 3: you know, to ask myself, well, what would I say

732
00:39:42,560 --> 00:39:44,759
Speaker 3: to a friend? And I might say to a friend like, hey,

733
00:39:44,760 --> 00:39:47,040
Speaker 3: you can't be perfect all the time, or you know

734
00:39:47,120 --> 00:39:49,080
Speaker 3: you're trying, or the next one's going to be better,

735
00:39:49,160 --> 00:39:52,480
Speaker 3: and and that'll keep you moving so that you can

736
00:39:53,520 --> 00:39:55,319
Speaker 3: you can figure out what your next STEP's going to be.

737
00:39:56,040 --> 00:39:59,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, I often like thinking about it as well as

738
00:39:59,120 --> 00:40:01,960
Speaker 2: like you're childhood self is still very much alive and

739
00:40:01,960 --> 00:40:05,120
Speaker 2: present within you, like show them the kindness that you

740
00:40:05,160 --> 00:40:07,239
Speaker 2: would show them if they were right in front of

741
00:40:07,239 --> 00:40:10,799
Speaker 2: you right now. So thank you so much for all

742
00:40:10,840 --> 00:40:14,359
Speaker 2: of your wisdom, for all of your free wisdom on

743
00:40:14,920 --> 00:40:18,799
Speaker 2: this topic of post graduation blues. I really appreciate you

744
00:40:18,840 --> 00:40:19,200
Speaker 2: coming on.

745
00:40:19,680 --> 00:40:22,040
Speaker 3: Oh my gosh, this has been so much fun. Thank

746
00:40:22,120 --> 00:40:24,360
Speaker 3: you for having me. It's been wonderful talking with you.

747
00:40:24,920 --> 00:40:26,440
Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, me too. I feel like I was

748
00:40:26,520 --> 00:40:30,279
Speaker 2: unlocking so much of my own experiences that I hadn't

749
00:40:30,320 --> 00:40:33,399
Speaker 2: thought about in like quite a while. So where can

750
00:40:33,440 --> 00:40:36,680
Speaker 2: they find you? Where can the listeners find you? Your book,

751
00:40:37,320 --> 00:40:39,480
Speaker 2: more more of your advice.

752
00:40:40,160 --> 00:40:42,520
Speaker 3: So you can find me on my website. So it's

753
00:40:42,600 --> 00:40:47,520
Speaker 3: Liz KELLYMSW dot com. And I'm also on Instagram at

754
00:40:47,600 --> 00:40:50,680
Speaker 3: real dot life, dot mental dot wellness. You know that's

755
00:40:50,680 --> 00:40:53,200
Speaker 3: a little bit of a mouthful, but I can also

756
00:40:53,239 --> 00:40:54,960
Speaker 3: send you everything if you want to be able to

757
00:40:55,000 --> 00:40:55,879
Speaker 3: link it to the show.

758
00:40:56,360 --> 00:41:00,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'll do that. Thank you as well. Mention your

759
00:41:00,560 --> 00:41:01,839
Speaker 2: book and your book as well.

760
00:41:02,719 --> 00:41:04,640
Speaker 3: Yes, and so my book is called this book is

761
00:41:04,719 --> 00:41:07,440
Speaker 3: Cheaper than therapy and no nonsense guide to improving your

762
00:41:07,480 --> 00:41:10,960
Speaker 3: mental health. It has tools that I share with my

763
00:41:11,080 --> 00:41:14,960
Speaker 3: clients every day. It's really the basics of my version

764
00:41:15,000 --> 00:41:17,279
Speaker 3: of mental health, well one oh one, the basics of

765
00:41:17,320 --> 00:41:20,000
Speaker 3: mental health. And you can find that wherever you like

766
00:41:20,040 --> 00:41:23,040
Speaker 3: to buy books. There's also an audio version and an

767
00:41:23,040 --> 00:41:24,160
Speaker 3: electronic version too.

768
00:41:24,680 --> 00:41:27,320
Speaker 2: Look at that accessible. And also we love an audio

769
00:41:27,360 --> 00:41:29,560
Speaker 2: book because you can listen to it like you're listening

770
00:41:29,560 --> 00:41:33,360
Speaker 2: to this podcast. Thank you so much again for coming

771
00:41:33,360 --> 00:41:37,080
Speaker 2: on as always. If you enjoyed this episode, please feel

772
00:41:37,080 --> 00:41:40,160
Speaker 2: free to leave a five star review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify,

773
00:41:40,680 --> 00:41:43,400
Speaker 2: wherever you're listening right now. If you have a friend,

774
00:41:43,920 --> 00:41:46,880
Speaker 2: a sibling, I don't know, an acquaintance who has just

775
00:41:46,960 --> 00:41:50,080
Speaker 2: graduated and might need to hear this, send them a link.

776
00:41:50,120 --> 00:41:53,800
Speaker 2: I'm sure they would appreciate the amazing advice and words

777
00:41:53,840 --> 00:41:57,319
Speaker 2: of wisdom from our guest. And of course, make sure

778
00:41:57,320 --> 00:42:01,800
Speaker 2: you're following along and send me any episode suggestion, feedback, thoughts, feelings,

779
00:42:01,880 --> 00:42:06,520
Speaker 2: qualms on Instagram at that Psychology podcast. Until next time,

780
00:42:06,800 --> 00:42:10,279
Speaker 2: stay safe, stay kind, to be gentle with yourself, and

781
00:42:10,320 --> 00:42:11,200
Speaker 2: we will talk soon