WEBVTT - Roxane Gay Stands Her Ground 0:00:06.120 --> 0:00:13.680 Welcome b a fam Hello, I'm Randy woodrif Santo's so. 0:00:13.720 --> 0:00:20.159 While Many's collecting herself, we had tears amazing conversation with 0:00:20.560 --> 0:00:24.120 not only one of Mandy's heroes, but the hero to many, 0:00:24.239 --> 0:00:29.240 the Roxanne Gay and nanny. Why is Roxanne just like 0:00:29.320 --> 0:00:30.440 one of your hero. 0:00:31.800 --> 0:00:34.360 I'm like, in full tears, I've never been this way 0:00:34.400 --> 0:00:39.519 around Roxanne Gay? Why is she a hero? Because she 0:00:39.680 --> 0:00:41.839 has survived so much like we all do? You know, 0:00:41.880 --> 0:00:44.520 we all have stories to tell, and it's not that 0:00:44.800 --> 0:00:48.080 Roxanne story. And I don't think she feels this way either. 0:00:48.080 --> 0:00:49.559 I'm sure she would say, like, you know, we all 0:00:49.600 --> 0:00:53.840 have stories. Hers is one of many, but she chooses 0:00:53.880 --> 0:00:59.120 to share so much of herself and her book Hunger 0:01:00.920 --> 0:01:03.720 just like cracked me wide open, made me love myself. 0:01:04.319 --> 0:01:07.200 She she is a like she says in the interview, 0:01:07.200 --> 0:01:09.920 you guys will hear you know, she is a black, queer, 0:01:10.600 --> 0:01:17.959 fat woman her words in America, and she's she's so 0:01:18.480 --> 0:01:21.000 gentle and I mean, you know, just in talking to 0:01:21.000 --> 0:01:23.000 her tip, I just am struck by, like like she's 0:01:23.040 --> 0:01:25.959 so she's normal, Like she's just like we all are. 0:01:26.000 --> 0:01:29.280 You know, she's a human being. But she's got grit, 0:01:29.600 --> 0:01:33.920 and she's got bravery and courage. And her story, her 0:01:34.040 --> 0:01:39.000 life story is just so not a nonlinear It goes 0:01:39.080 --> 0:01:42.760 every other direction that you could possibly think. But yet 0:01:42.800 --> 0:01:44.440 look at the way she talks about her mom and 0:01:44.480 --> 0:01:47.080 her dad, and her brother and her nephew and her 0:01:47.120 --> 0:01:50.800 puppy and her wife. Now, it's just it. Really, she's 0:01:50.880 --> 0:01:54.720 just such a hero and and she's a writer like 0:01:54.760 --> 0:01:58.400 she just her words break, they break you and they 0:01:58.520 --> 0:02:03.000 build you back together. And I think that she's genuine 0:02:03.200 --> 0:02:06.920 in how she supports other authors. You can see that. 0:02:07.240 --> 0:02:09.840 You know, she's got her own imprint. Now, the project 0:02:09.880 --> 0:02:11.680 we're going to talk to her about today, BA Fan 0:02:12.840 --> 0:02:16.160 is a collection of essays on ever and we'll put 0:02:16.160 --> 0:02:19.679 a link in the bio. What it's not just her 0:02:19.760 --> 0:02:23.480 work about which we'll get into for sure, her buying 0:02:23.480 --> 0:02:25.480 her first gun as a black woman in America and 0:02:25.520 --> 0:02:29.519 talking about how she thinks it, Well, did she say 0:02:29.520 --> 0:02:31.639 it was empowering? There's some there's some debate about the 0:02:31.680 --> 0:02:36.560 word empowering, but her experience rather and the other authors 0:02:36.600 --> 0:02:39.919 that she lifts up as much as she can. Ah, 0:02:40.200 --> 0:02:42.639 what uh? And the reason I'm like still in full 0:02:42.680 --> 0:02:46.079 tears I'm still crying if I don't know if that's 0:02:46.120 --> 0:02:50.320 even in the show. But at the end, Tiffy, what 0:02:50.360 --> 0:02:52.920 did she say? She said, she said, let me know 0:02:52.960 --> 0:02:53.760 about your book. 0:02:54.240 --> 0:02:56.600 She said, let me know about your book and how 0:02:56.639 --> 0:02:58.839 I can help you, and like in a very genuine way. 0:02:58.919 --> 0:03:00.920 And Mandy, I don't know that. I was like, I 0:03:00.960 --> 0:03:03.840 will stand and will stand in place, and I said 0:03:04.880 --> 0:03:07.240 that I will make sure she reaches out to ask 0:03:07.320 --> 0:03:10.240 for the help when your book comes out or in between. 0:03:10.240 --> 0:03:13.640 And she said, please do because she knew that Mandy, 0:03:14.240 --> 0:03:19.639 despite you know, her being a bad ass boss babe, Yes, 0:03:19.680 --> 0:03:21.840 I am those thanks too, right, it might be afraid 0:03:21.840 --> 0:03:23.880 to reach out to ask for help even though someone 0:03:23.880 --> 0:03:26.920 has made the genuine offer. And so we hope that 0:03:26.960 --> 0:03:29.160 you enjoyed this episode as much as we enjoy being 0:03:29.200 --> 0:03:31.959 in her presence and sharing her with you. And without 0:03:32.080 --> 0:03:40.640 further ado, we welcome the Mama f and Rock sand Get. Hey, Hey, hey, 0:03:41.920 --> 0:03:51.400 we're back. We're extra black. We're brown, ambition, ambition, ambition, 0:03:52.280 --> 0:03:55.800 We're super duper super du brown. In the studio, we 0:03:55.840 --> 0:03:58.320 have company, and so much so we actually took the 0:03:58.400 --> 0:04:01.400 covers off the couch. We're saying a good living room, 0:04:01.800 --> 0:04:03.680 you know the you know the white living room where 0:04:03.680 --> 0:04:05.280 it's like, don't you touch nothing, And we're bringing out 0:04:05.280 --> 0:04:08.000 the good juice from underneath the bed. That's what my 0:04:08.040 --> 0:04:13.800 mother used to do. Wait, wow, you know when you 0:04:13.840 --> 0:04:16.520 have somebody to come over. Because I'm one of four 0:04:17.080 --> 0:04:18.800 and so there was five of us, so juice was 0:04:18.800 --> 0:04:22.920 not lasting long. So we had company man company snacks. 0:04:22.920 --> 0:04:24.279 So we're bringing them all out because we've got a 0:04:24.279 --> 0:04:30.159 special guest in the studio today and so welcome Roxanne Gay. 0:04:30.279 --> 0:04:31.200 The Roxanne Gay. 0:04:32.000 --> 0:04:34.279 Thank you so much. It's a real pleasure to be here. Guys. 0:04:36.320 --> 0:04:37.719 So Mandy said me starts struck. 0:04:39.320 --> 0:04:41.280 Mandy said, this video, but I don't know, it's like 0:04:41.320 --> 0:04:44.040 a nine minute video. Do you prefer Roxanne? 0:04:44.040 --> 0:04:46.000 Miss Gay Roane. 0:04:51.279 --> 0:04:53.960 She's never heard that before, I'm sure never. 0:04:56.120 --> 0:05:01.359 So you sent me that video, Mandy, I did not 0:05:01.480 --> 0:05:06.000 know what to expect. But you know, gun ownership and 0:05:06.160 --> 0:05:10.200 kind of like your journey too was not you know, 0:05:10.560 --> 0:05:15.120 and so it made me, really, I don't know, reconsider 0:05:15.320 --> 0:05:18.600 because just like you Rock saying, my assumption was that 0:05:18.640 --> 0:05:20.760 when you think of gun ownership, it's definitely a white dude, 0:05:20.760 --> 0:05:23.440 it's definitely a brow he probably drives a pickup truck. 0:05:24.440 --> 0:05:26.240 And you know, I don't know I was wearing a 0:05:26.279 --> 0:05:29.400 red hat, if you know what I mean. But I 0:05:29.480 --> 0:05:32.560 have been seeing more and more black women online talk about, 0:05:32.680 --> 0:05:36.240 you know, just a need for protection. And so for 0:05:36.320 --> 0:05:39.280 those of our audience members that have not seen this, 0:05:39.920 --> 0:05:41.720 I guess Mini Doc if you will, cause you kind 0:05:41.720 --> 0:05:46.120 of just share, Like, so now you are officially. 0:05:45.720 --> 0:05:51.040 A gun owner. Oh yes, definitely and can't come for her. 0:05:51.520 --> 0:05:52.760 I mean you can try it. 0:05:53.040 --> 0:05:55.720 You can try, but. 0:05:54.720 --> 0:05:58.839 I don't recommend it, but feel free, but can. 0:05:58.720 --> 0:06:00.320 You kind of share your journey because I watched to 0:06:00.360 --> 0:06:01.800 DOAC and I was like, ah, this gonna makes so 0:06:01.880 --> 0:06:03.960 much sense stuff for sure. 0:06:04.080 --> 0:06:07.240 Yeah, you know, I definitely don't believe people should be 0:06:07.240 --> 0:06:10.280 able to own guns. I think it's absurd how many 0:06:10.279 --> 0:06:12.400 guns are in this country. There are actually more guns 0:06:12.400 --> 0:06:15.560 than people in the United States, and truly no other 0:06:15.600 --> 0:06:19.800 country in the world has that, no other country. And 0:06:20.920 --> 0:06:23.800 we also have a populist that seems more than willing 0:06:23.880 --> 0:06:26.920 to use those guns in public, to use those guns 0:06:26.960 --> 0:06:31.080 to wreak incredible havoc, to take an enormous amount of 0:06:31.120 --> 0:06:36.000 lives at one time, so fundamentally I'm opposed to guns. However, 0:06:37.880 --> 0:06:40.400 you know, when you write and you're a black woman, 0:06:40.760 --> 0:06:43.039 a queer black woman, a fat black woman, and you 0:06:43.080 --> 0:06:47.040 have opinions opinions that quite frankly are not that radical, 0:06:47.120 --> 0:06:52.760 like women are people, and stop killing us when we're unarmed, 0:06:52.839 --> 0:06:55.640 or quite frankly, stop killing us under any circumstances, like 0:06:55.760 --> 0:06:59.119 just basic you know, human rights, one on one things. 0:06:59.200 --> 0:07:01.560 People really don't like it. And some people, of course, 0:07:01.600 --> 0:07:03.599 are just going to troll you on social media, which 0:07:03.839 --> 0:07:06.520 is annoying and sometimes painful, but it is what it 0:07:06.560 --> 0:07:08.960 is and it's not a big deal. But sometimes you 0:07:09.000 --> 0:07:12.600 also get threats. And I've gotten threats for fifteen years now, 0:07:12.640 --> 0:07:17.040 so I'm used to the threats, but they have gotten 0:07:17.200 --> 0:07:22.800 sharper and more specific over time, and some of them 0:07:22.800 --> 0:07:26.920 have indicated, oh, this person isn't just angry because of 0:07:26.960 --> 0:07:30.840 what they read. They've done some research. And then I 0:07:30.880 --> 0:07:34.560 got married and my wife is Jewish, and the threats 0:07:34.560 --> 0:07:38.160 started taking on a very anti Semitic tone, and for 0:07:38.240 --> 0:07:41.120 me that was just like, okay, well now I'm done. 0:07:41.280 --> 0:07:45.720 And my brother Joel was an avid gun enthusiast and 0:07:45.840 --> 0:07:48.400 no one in the family knows where he got this 0:07:48.480 --> 0:07:53.040 from It was just very like what And he had 0:07:53.120 --> 0:07:55.840 long tried to convince our other brother, Michael Junior and 0:07:55.880 --> 0:07:58.880 I to take up gun ownership or to get into it, 0:07:58.920 --> 0:08:01.840 and Michael and I were like, no, thank you. Uh. 0:08:01.880 --> 0:08:03.840 And then finally I thought, well, you know, let me 0:08:03.880 --> 0:08:07.800 give it a go. And so during the pandemic, we 0:08:07.920 --> 0:08:10.480 bought a gun, and my wife and I took gun 0:08:10.520 --> 0:08:15.840 classes and learned how to use one. And you know, 0:08:15.920 --> 0:08:19.960 it's not you know, people always overestimate how interesting it is. 0:08:20.000 --> 0:08:22.720 It's actually not that interesting. It's not even something I 0:08:22.720 --> 0:08:26.440 think about every day. But I do know that if 0:08:27.520 --> 0:08:32.360 someone who doesn't belong in my home enters, I have 0:08:32.760 --> 0:08:37.280 an additional means of trying to protect myself. 0:08:39.280 --> 0:08:41.360 I mean, have you have you ever got a gun, Mandy? 0:08:42.320 --> 0:08:44.040 I mean a BB gun when I was about seven 0:08:44.120 --> 0:08:46.120 years old, and the kickback what do you call it 0:08:46.160 --> 0:08:46.480 when it. 0:08:46.480 --> 0:08:50.400 Like goes the recoil or kickback works too? 0:08:50.600 --> 0:08:52.960 Oh well, it kicked me in the teeth. I'm surprised 0:08:53.080 --> 0:08:55.080 I have all of that. I don't know how was 0:08:55.080 --> 0:08:56.640 I holding it for to kick me in the teeth. 0:08:56.640 --> 0:08:59.280 I don't know. I couldn't tell you. But I grew 0:08:59.320 --> 0:09:01.920 up in Georgia's so there was lots of BB guns around. 0:09:02.640 --> 0:09:05.400 But yeah, my husband works in for the federal government. 0:09:05.520 --> 0:09:10.000 His brother is an ATF agent, and I have two 0:09:10.040 --> 0:09:16.240 little boys, and so my opinions on gun ownership are 0:09:16.360 --> 0:09:19.400 quite severe. Like I just am like it's the devil, 0:09:19.480 --> 0:09:22.160 like never shall it enter this home, Like it's just 0:09:22.240 --> 0:09:26.880 asking for trouble. I do get my husband and his brother. 0:09:27.160 --> 0:09:29.640 They have been to the shooting ranges, they have trained 0:09:29.679 --> 0:09:33.360 with federal agents, like they understand. I love that you 0:09:33.400 --> 0:09:37.760 and your wife took classes, you know, for me, educated 0:09:37.880 --> 0:09:40.280 trained gun owner who learned safety and all that, Like 0:09:40.360 --> 0:09:44.839 that's much different than you know and t if when 0:09:44.840 --> 0:09:47.400 you were when you were saying describing your idea of 0:09:47.440 --> 0:09:50.960 a gun owner, and that was a very different picture. 0:09:51.000 --> 0:09:54.880 For me. It's like a police officer, like just walking 0:09:54.920 --> 0:10:00.360 around wielding that kind of power. It's it scares. But 0:10:00.440 --> 0:10:04.800 I also like raising these two little boys, I feel 0:10:05.920 --> 0:10:10.280 I feel not outnumbered, but I feel like it's inevitable 0:10:10.960 --> 0:10:14.240 that it will be a conversation at some point because 0:10:14.320 --> 0:10:19.520 gun culture is so infused into kid culture, like thin everywhere, 0:10:20.600 --> 0:10:23.319 even the cute video games like I used to play 0:10:23.400 --> 0:10:27.240 Duck Hunter. You know, like everything has guns and it 0:10:27.400 --> 0:10:31.679 water guns. You can't like everything is guns all the time. 0:10:33.040 --> 0:10:35.760 Yeah, my mom wouldn't allow us to play with guns 0:10:35.760 --> 0:10:40.079 growing up, or barbie dolls for similar reasons. Wait what 0:10:40.280 --> 0:10:41.640 kinda just water guns? 0:10:41.679 --> 0:10:42.079 Were no? 0:10:42.080 --> 0:10:45.080 No or just any call guns, no toy guns, no 0:10:45.200 --> 0:10:48.880 water guns. And she was looking back, she was right like, 0:10:49.000 --> 0:10:51.600 oh yeah, normalize it. She also, I mean, this is 0:10:51.640 --> 0:10:54.800 gonna make her sound strange, but she's interesting. She wouldn't 0:10:54.880 --> 0:10:58.880 let us play with stuffed animals because animals are supposed 0:10:58.880 --> 0:11:02.839 to be scary, and she doesn't believe in teddy bears 0:11:02.840 --> 0:11:08.560 because bears are vicious. So now I have tons of 0:11:08.559 --> 0:11:11.280 teddy bears. Obviously, we all work through our traumas one 0:11:11.320 --> 0:11:11.920 way or another. 0:11:12.240 --> 0:11:14.520 But no, my kids growing up and having to have 0:11:14.600 --> 0:11:17.720 like a gun cabinet because mommy wouldn't let them. Ever. 0:11:17.920 --> 0:11:24.120 Absolutely, do you think there's like an intersectionality between gun 0:11:24.360 --> 0:11:28.400 ownership and economic access? 0:11:28.920 --> 0:11:34.080 You know, yeah, sometimes, but you know the reality is 0:11:34.120 --> 0:11:38.760 guns are really cheap. Now if you are poor and 0:11:38.840 --> 0:11:41.520 living paycheck to paycheck, No, you probably don't have three 0:11:41.600 --> 0:11:43.600 hundred and four hundred, five hundred extra dollars to buy 0:11:43.600 --> 0:11:46.720 a gun. So yes, there's definitely something there, and a 0:11:46.720 --> 0:11:50.480 lot of gun owners like the reality is that the 0:11:50.520 --> 0:11:53.760 majority of Americans do not own guns, and so the 0:11:53.800 --> 0:11:56.000 people who do own guns, like, they own a lot 0:11:56.040 --> 0:11:58.480 of guns, and it takes a lot of money to 0:11:58.559 --> 0:12:00.640 have that many guns and to have some of the 0:12:00.679 --> 0:12:05.800 more elaborate rifles, long gun, semi automatic weapons that people 0:12:05.800 --> 0:12:09.880 collect or whatever you used to arm their little militias 0:12:09.920 --> 0:12:15.200 of their families. So there can be a connection. But unfortunately, 0:12:16.480 --> 0:12:18.280 depending on how you think about it, you know, it's 0:12:18.320 --> 0:12:21.360 just very easy to buy a gun. It's very affordable, 0:12:22.000 --> 0:12:24.040 and so you would think that that would be more 0:12:24.080 --> 0:12:28.640 of a barrier, but it isn't because guns are so accessible. 0:12:28.679 --> 0:12:31.000 I had no when I started getting into this and 0:12:31.040 --> 0:12:34.439 doing some research, I actually had no idea how cheap 0:12:34.520 --> 0:12:41.199 guns were. It's so disconcerting to like see a gun 0:12:41.280 --> 0:12:43.280 and then the price tag is like three ninety nine. 0:12:44.880 --> 0:12:48.040 That is certainly money, but when you think about what 0:12:48.240 --> 0:12:54.040 a gun can do, it's just like wow. So this 0:12:54.160 --> 0:12:57.320 is a very accessible price point when you think about it, 0:12:57.360 --> 0:12:59.120 because it's not something you're going to buy every week. 0:12:59.160 --> 0:13:00.880 It's something you're going to buy one and done. 0:13:01.080 --> 0:13:02.800 I mean, I saved up from my prom dress. It 0:13:02.840 --> 0:13:05.199 was two hundred and eighty seven dollars on them forget 0:13:05.240 --> 0:13:08.640 it and like they're eighteen. Other was just something that 0:13:08.679 --> 0:13:11.760 came out that said, the there's so many mass shootings. 0:13:12.280 --> 0:13:16.840 How can I remember the Uvalde the person who, the 0:13:16.880 --> 0:13:21.880 monster who who was responsible for the Uvalde shooting? He 0:13:22.040 --> 0:13:24.320 had saved up before his eighteenth birthday. In a minute 0:13:24.360 --> 0:13:30.160 he turned eighteen. He was like, and here's my ar fifteen. Roxane. 0:13:30.200 --> 0:13:33.079 I wanted to ask you because I mean, you are 0:13:33.679 --> 0:13:36.160 your work is so important to me and so many others. 0:13:36.200 --> 0:13:38.920 I know I'm not alone in that, and it's been 0:13:39.000 --> 0:13:42.480 so empowering and how authentic you are and sharing your story, 0:13:42.679 --> 0:13:49.000 especially your book Hunger, was especially poignant to me. With 0:13:49.040 --> 0:13:53.800 this new project, why turn the lens toward gun ownership? 0:13:53.840 --> 0:13:57.040 Do you hope that it'll be empowering? And in what way? 0:13:57.559 --> 0:14:03.480 No? I mean no, I don't ever make work with 0:14:03.640 --> 0:14:10.160 the ambition of being empowering, because I always harbor I 0:14:10.160 --> 0:14:14.800 think of healthy mistrust about like things that are framed 0:14:14.800 --> 0:14:19.880 as empowering, empowering, Why empowering for who? And it also 0:14:19.960 --> 0:14:22.240 there's a I think a level of hubris there where 0:14:22.240 --> 0:14:24.960 you say I'm trying to empower people. What makes you 0:14:25.000 --> 0:14:29.080 think you can? Instead? I was just interested in how 0:14:29.120 --> 0:14:31.800 do you think about gun ownership as a black feminist, 0:14:31.920 --> 0:14:34.120 Like how do you reconcile those two things? And I 0:14:34.160 --> 0:14:36.440 actually don't know if they can be reconciled, but I 0:14:36.440 --> 0:14:40.640 do think it's interesting because, as you mentioned earlier, you know, 0:14:40.680 --> 0:14:42.760 we tend to think that of gun ownership as a 0:14:42.760 --> 0:14:48.720 white thing, and at least I do. And as I 0:14:48.760 --> 0:14:51.040 bought a gun and started going to the gun range, 0:14:51.120 --> 0:14:53.680 I recognized or I realized, oh my god, I'm surrounded 0:14:53.680 --> 0:14:56.480 by black women. This is really interesting. Now I live 0:14:56.520 --> 0:15:02.040 in Englewood, so you're to find black people in Englewood. 0:15:02.040 --> 0:15:04.640 It's a predominantly black community still, thank god. 0:15:05.040 --> 0:15:05.200 But. 0:15:07.280 --> 0:15:10.160 It was still like, huh. It really forced me to rethink, 0:15:10.160 --> 0:15:13.400 and that was actually the genesis of this essay, just thinking, oh, 0:15:13.480 --> 0:15:16.000 this is really challenging my preconceived notions. And even at 0:15:16.000 --> 0:15:19.880 the gun store, it was mostly white men, but there 0:15:19.920 --> 0:15:25.880 were black women there buying guns, buying ammunition, et cetera. 0:15:26.600 --> 0:15:29.880 And I was curious whenever black women do something, I 0:15:29.880 --> 0:15:33.600 find black women endlessly interesting. And so I was just like, 0:15:33.720 --> 0:15:36.920 let me really sort of see what I can find 0:15:36.920 --> 0:15:39.080 out here. And it was really interesting to learn that 0:15:39.120 --> 0:15:41.920 Black women are the fastest growing demographic of gun owners. 0:15:42.960 --> 0:15:44.680 And I think it's because a lot of us realize 0:15:44.760 --> 0:15:47.040 no one's coming to save us, Like we know that 0:15:47.120 --> 0:15:53.320 more than anyone. Nobody cares about us except us, and 0:15:53.400 --> 0:15:56.080 I hope that we change that. But that's not our 0:15:56.200 --> 0:15:58.840 job to change how people view us. There's nothing we 0:15:58.880 --> 0:16:02.120 can do that we have not already done. We should 0:16:02.120 --> 0:16:06.200 not have to audition to be treated as human. So 0:16:06.760 --> 0:16:09.080 given the way that things are, like, let me do 0:16:09.240 --> 0:16:10.760 what I can do to protect myself. 0:16:11.960 --> 0:16:14.840 It's so interesting because Black women are like the fastest 0:16:14.880 --> 0:16:19.200 growing demographics in the space of entrepreneurship, that's systemographic, going 0:16:19.240 --> 0:16:21.640 to college. But I mean, I feel like in every 0:16:21.720 --> 0:16:25.560 area we are, I wonder why that is. 0:16:25.760 --> 0:16:30.320 I think we're very ambitious and not just around ambition 0:16:30.960 --> 0:16:33.120 if we know the answer, and. 0:16:33.120 --> 0:16:35.560 I think that we know, Like I think also for 0:16:35.720 --> 0:16:39.600 one of the first times we can but like, if 0:16:39.840 --> 0:16:41.480 there's one thing a black woman is going to do, 0:16:42.200 --> 0:16:46.440 she's going to get a degree, period, and so you know, 0:16:46.520 --> 0:16:50.640 I just think we also, for the first time in history, 0:16:50.760 --> 0:16:54.600 have more available resources and time to do this we have, 0:16:55.320 --> 0:16:57.640 you know, still all of the same responsibilities, but I 0:16:57.680 --> 0:17:00.280 just think we're more encouraged now there are more avenue use, 0:17:00.320 --> 0:17:05.080 there's more ways of gaining confidence to do these kinds 0:17:05.119 --> 0:17:08.679 of things. Of course, student loans which are problematic, but nonetheless, 0:17:08.680 --> 0:17:10.479 I mean they allowed me to go to grad school. 0:17:10.640 --> 0:17:14.040 So I think a lot of us recognize, Okay, let 0:17:14.040 --> 0:17:16.919 me take these low interest loans and see what I 0:17:16.960 --> 0:17:21.960 can do about getting a degree, or gun ownership or 0:17:22.000 --> 0:17:24.200 starting a And you know, even with starting a business, 0:17:24.200 --> 0:17:28.960 like how am I going to generate generational wealth? How 0:17:29.000 --> 0:17:31.520 am I even going to support my family today? Like 0:17:31.560 --> 0:17:35.000 not even thinking that far ahead in ways that I 0:17:35.000 --> 0:17:37.119 can do so on my own terms without having to 0:17:37.119 --> 0:17:39.720 compromise myself as much as I would if I were 0:17:39.800 --> 0:17:43.159 to work for someone else. And so we see a 0:17:43.160 --> 0:17:45.640 lot of entrepreneurship and it's great. 0:17:46.200 --> 0:17:48.679 Hold that thought and we'll be right back. 0:17:49.760 --> 0:17:53.040 State farm agents are small business owners too, so they 0:17:53.080 --> 0:17:55.880 know how to help you choose personalized policies that fit 0:17:56.000 --> 0:17:58.600 your needs, like a good neighbor. State farm is there. 0:17:58.760 --> 0:18:05.000 Talk to your local agent today. So I want to 0:18:05.040 --> 0:18:08.720 talk about well, yes, gun ownership, but I also want 0:18:08.800 --> 0:18:13.399 to talk about like Sonia Massy, Like we can't ignore 0:18:13.440 --> 0:18:17.520 that that just happened. I mean, I what I like 0:18:17.560 --> 0:18:19.679 about and what challenges me with some of your writing 0:18:19.720 --> 0:18:22.199 and even this project, is that you're not trying to 0:18:22.240 --> 0:18:26.760 offer answers. You're literally just looking at a question. But 0:18:26.800 --> 0:18:30.360 I can't help but ask in that situation, like how 0:18:30.359 --> 0:18:32.480 do you feel about Sonia Massy? I mean she had 0:18:32.480 --> 0:18:36.879 a pot of boiling water and her life was taken 0:18:36.920 --> 0:18:40.920 from her. Do you think if we look to gun 0:18:40.960 --> 0:18:44.520 ownership as a way of protecting ourselves, like, how does that? Like? 0:18:44.560 --> 0:18:48.280 Can it work? Can it will be be more protected 0:18:48.359 --> 0:18:49.960 or more endangered? It? 0:18:50.160 --> 0:18:54.359 See, well, the thing is we're always endangered, So no, 0:18:54.480 --> 0:18:58.800 we won't be more endangered, but will we be more protected? 0:18:58.840 --> 0:19:02.280 I don't think there's anything more that can actually protect us. 0:19:02.680 --> 0:19:06.800 And that also extends to black men. Look at Tamiya 0:19:06.920 --> 0:19:14.280 Rice a child, look at Trayvon Martin, Filando Castile, Tatiana, 0:19:14.800 --> 0:19:19.000 Tatiana Jefferson. The list is so long, It's so long, 0:19:19.160 --> 0:19:22.720 it gets longer every year. So I you know, I 0:19:22.760 --> 0:19:26.000 think I did think about that because like if police 0:19:26.000 --> 0:19:27.879 came into my house and I thought it was an 0:19:27.880 --> 0:19:30.480 intruder and I was holding a gun. I would absolutely 0:19:30.480 --> 0:19:33.120 lose my life. That actually happened. I can't remember his name, 0:19:33.160 --> 0:19:36.240 but he was an air Force. He was a member 0:19:36.280 --> 0:19:38.840 of the Air Force. It happened probably a month and 0:19:38.880 --> 0:19:42.480 a half ago, where he thought the police were an intruder. 0:19:42.560 --> 0:19:45.280 He had his gun. He's a legal registered gun owner 0:19:45.320 --> 0:19:47.840 in his home, standing his ground, and it did not matter. 0:19:48.680 --> 0:19:53.320 And So when I think about Sonya Massey, what really 0:19:53.359 --> 0:19:55.320 breaks my heart? I mean, all of it breaks my heart, 0:19:55.600 --> 0:19:57.480 but what really breaks my heart is that she called 0:19:57.480 --> 0:20:01.760 the police because she was afraid, while also knowing she 0:20:01.800 --> 0:20:03.679 should be afraid of the police. Because the first thing 0:20:03.720 --> 0:20:05.879 she said to them was don't hurt me, and they're like, 0:20:05.920 --> 0:20:06.800 why would we hurt you? 0:20:08.080 --> 0:20:08.560 And now? 0:20:08.800 --> 0:20:12.359 And then they did, like a pot of boiling water 0:20:12.440 --> 0:20:15.439 isn't going to do anything to you? I mean. And 0:20:15.480 --> 0:20:18.480 it just seems like the police department is a vocational 0:20:18.480 --> 0:20:24.359 program for cowards, because so many of these officers say, 0:20:25.000 --> 0:20:27.720 I was afraid for my life. I was afraid. I 0:20:27.760 --> 0:20:29.760 was afraid, Like you're afraid of a woman in her 0:20:29.840 --> 0:20:36.000 nightgown holding a pot of water? Back up, like, I mean, 0:20:36.080 --> 0:20:39.880 what is she going to do to you? And even 0:20:39.920 --> 0:20:43.480 if you're afraid. I just don't understand why taking someone's 0:20:43.520 --> 0:20:48.040 life is your means of addressing your fear. So did 0:20:48.040 --> 0:20:48.720 you'll see. 0:20:48.560 --> 0:20:50.879 That he had been to like five different Is that true? 0:20:50.960 --> 0:20:53.080 I need to like vet that source. But I had 0:20:53.080 --> 0:20:57.119 read that he was a part of five different police precincts, 0:20:57.880 --> 0:21:01.679 and and it was just going back to the idea 0:21:01.720 --> 0:21:04.200 that there's no like, there's no stopping a bad cop 0:21:04.240 --> 0:21:06.600 from getting like who's been suspended, for example, in one 0:21:07.160 --> 0:21:10.679 district or whatever the jurisdiction is, moving to another area 0:21:10.800 --> 0:21:12.719 getting a new job as a police officer. Like, they 0:21:12.720 --> 0:21:15.959 don't do serious checks on that kind of thing. So 0:21:16.000 --> 0:21:18.920 he was allowed to go from precinct to precinct to 0:21:19.000 --> 0:21:22.160 precinct to precinct. Clearly an issue, and I think there'll 0:21:22.200 --> 0:21:23.280 be more to come on that, but. 0:21:24.440 --> 0:21:26.920 I tend to point know that, but I'm not surprised. 0:21:27.160 --> 0:21:30.639 Like the young not the young. The officer who killed 0:21:30.640 --> 0:21:35.040 Tamir Rice was recently found working for a sheriff's department 0:21:35.240 --> 0:21:39.960 somewhere and now, of course he has been let go 0:21:40.480 --> 0:21:45.080 because they didn't bother to do a background check. That's 0:21:45.080 --> 0:21:48.080 someone who's supposed to serve and protect. It's fine blowing. 0:21:48.119 --> 0:21:49.920 What do you mean you didn't do a background check. 0:21:50.840 --> 0:21:52.719 I mean I had to fire someone before they were 0:21:52.760 --> 0:21:55.000 even on the job because they lied about going to 0:21:55.160 --> 0:21:58.200 NYU all the way, like didn't have the full degree, 0:21:58.320 --> 0:22:00.960 just went for a year and the JAR was like, yeah, no, 0:22:01.040 --> 0:22:04.800 we don't allow that, and they were gone. So that's insane. 0:22:05.800 --> 0:22:08.040 You know, this is a country where you know, you 0:22:08.040 --> 0:22:09.760 have a family, you can have vote, but you can 0:22:09.840 --> 0:22:10.440 be president. 0:22:10.680 --> 0:22:14.280 So well, let's lighten it up. How do you feel 0:22:14.280 --> 0:22:16.520 about Kamala Harris as president? Roxanne? 0:22:18.440 --> 0:22:19.359 Is that lightning it up? 0:22:20.040 --> 0:22:21.560 Were you one of the forty four thousand. 0:22:22.960 --> 0:22:27.679 No, I was not, but I would have been. I 0:22:27.720 --> 0:22:33.400 think that it's just I'm all in. I think that 0:22:34.840 --> 0:22:39.000 we should all be all in for Kamala Harris, and 0:22:39.080 --> 0:22:42.439 I know that that some people don't like that. And 0:22:42.480 --> 0:22:47.000 I'm not saying that we just unequivocally and uncritically engage 0:22:47.040 --> 0:22:50.080 with her. I'm actually excited that we have a candidate 0:22:50.359 --> 0:22:52.920 that we can learn more about, that we can ask 0:22:53.160 --> 0:23:00.679 questions of, that we can make demands of. And so 0:23:00.960 --> 0:23:02.960 I think this is this is a great opportunity to 0:23:02.960 --> 0:23:08.160 push Kamala further left, to find out what she intends 0:23:08.200 --> 0:23:12.720 to do about Gaza and stopping the war there and 0:23:12.800 --> 0:23:19.320 this completely breathtaking and senseless loss of life. You know, 0:23:19.359 --> 0:23:21.800 but I think it's I think she's a phenomenal candidate, 0:23:22.040 --> 0:23:26.920 and I'm very comfortable saying that, Yeah, yes, there are 0:23:26.920 --> 0:23:30.120 many of things we can critique and should critique her 0:23:30.320 --> 0:23:34.240 history as a cop and a prosecutor, and some of 0:23:34.280 --> 0:23:38.160 the choices she made in those positions, Yes, those deserve critique. 0:23:38.440 --> 0:23:41.720