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Speaker 1: Welcome b a fam Hello, I'm Randy woodrif Santo's so.

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Speaker 2: While Many's collecting herself, we had tears amazing conversation with

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Speaker 2: not only one of Mandy's heroes, but the hero to many,

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Speaker 2: the Roxanne Gay and nanny. Why is Roxanne just like

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Speaker 2: one of your hero.

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Speaker 1: I'm like, in full tears, I've never been this way

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Speaker 1: around Roxanne Gay? Why is she a hero? Because she

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Speaker 1: has survived so much like we all do? You know,

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Speaker 1: we all have stories to tell, and it's not that

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Speaker 1: Roxanne story. And I don't think she feels this way either.

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Speaker 1: I'm sure she would say, like, you know, we all

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Speaker 1: have stories. Hers is one of many, but she chooses

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Speaker 1: to share so much of herself and her book Hunger

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Speaker 1: just like cracked me wide open, made me love myself.

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Speaker 1: She she is a like she says in the interview,

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Speaker 1: you guys will hear you know, she is a black, queer,

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Speaker 1: fat woman her words in America, and she's she's so

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Speaker 1: gentle and I mean, you know, just in talking to

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Speaker 1: her tip, I just am struck by, like like she's

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Speaker 1: so she's normal, Like she's just like we all are.

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Speaker 1: You know, she's a human being. But she's got grit,

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Speaker 1: and she's got bravery and courage. And her story, her

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Speaker 1: life story is just so not a nonlinear It goes

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Speaker 1: every other direction that you could possibly think. But yet

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Speaker 1: look at the way she talks about her mom and

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Speaker 1: her dad, and her brother and her nephew and her

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Speaker 1: puppy and her wife. Now, it's just it. Really, she's

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Speaker 1: just such a hero and and she's a writer like

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Speaker 1: she just her words break, they break you and they

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Speaker 1: build you back together. And I think that she's genuine

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Speaker 1: in how she supports other authors. You can see that.

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Speaker 1: You know, she's got her own imprint. Now, the project

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Speaker 1: we're going to talk to her about today, BA Fan

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Speaker 1: is a collection of essays on ever and we'll put

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Speaker 1: a link in the bio. What it's not just her

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Speaker 1: work about which we'll get into for sure, her buying

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Speaker 1: her first gun as a black woman in America and

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Speaker 1: talking about how she thinks it, Well, did she say

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Speaker 1: it was empowering? There's some there's some debate about the

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Speaker 1: word empowering, but her experience rather and the other authors

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Speaker 1: that she lifts up as much as she can. Ah,

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Speaker 1: what uh? And the reason I'm like still in full

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Speaker 1: tears I'm still crying if I don't know if that's

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Speaker 1: even in the show. But at the end, Tiffy, what

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Speaker 1: did she say? She said, she said, let me know

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Speaker 1: about your book.

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Speaker 2: She said, let me know about your book and how

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Speaker 2: I can help you, and like in a very genuine way.

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Speaker 2: And Mandy, I don't know that. I was like, I

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Speaker 2: will stand and will stand in place, and I said

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Speaker 2: that I will make sure she reaches out to ask

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Speaker 2: for the help when your book comes out or in between.

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Speaker 2: And she said, please do because she knew that Mandy,

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Speaker 2: despite you know, her being a bad ass boss babe, Yes,

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Speaker 2: I am those thanks too, right, it might be afraid

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Speaker 2: to reach out to ask for help even though someone

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Speaker 2: has made the genuine offer. And so we hope that

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Speaker 2: you enjoyed this episode as much as we enjoy being

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Speaker 2: in her presence and sharing her with you. And without

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Speaker 2: further ado, we welcome the Mama f and Rock sand Get. Hey, Hey, hey,

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Speaker 2: we're back. We're extra black. We're brown, ambition, ambition, ambition,

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Speaker 2: We're super duper super du brown. In the studio, we

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Speaker 2: have company, and so much so we actually took the

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Speaker 2: covers off the couch. We're saying a good living room,

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Speaker 2: you know the you know the white living room where

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Speaker 2: it's like, don't you touch nothing, And we're bringing out

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Speaker 2: the good juice from underneath the bed. That's what my

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Speaker 2: mother used to do. Wait, wow, you know when you

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Speaker 2: have somebody to come over. Because I'm one of four

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Speaker 2: and so there was five of us, so juice was

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Speaker 2: not lasting long. So we had company man company snacks.

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Speaker 2: So we're bringing them all out because we've got a

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Speaker 2: special guest in the studio today and so welcome Roxanne Gay.

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Speaker 2: The Roxanne Gay.

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Speaker 3: Thank you so much. It's a real pleasure to be here. Guys.

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Speaker 1: So Mandy said me starts struck.

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Speaker 2: Mandy said, this video, but I don't know, it's like

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Speaker 2: a nine minute video. Do you prefer Roxanne?

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Speaker 3: Miss Gay Roane.

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Speaker 1: She's never heard that before, I'm sure never.

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Speaker 2: So you sent me that video, Mandy, I did not

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Speaker 2: know what to expect. But you know, gun ownership and

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Speaker 2: kind of like your journey too was not you know,

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Speaker 2: and so it made me, really, I don't know, reconsider

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Speaker 2: because just like you Rock saying, my assumption was that

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Speaker 2: when you think of gun ownership, it's definitely a white dude,

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Speaker 2: it's definitely a brow he probably drives a pickup truck.

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Speaker 2: And you know, I don't know I was wearing a

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Speaker 2: red hat, if you know what I mean. But I

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Speaker 2: have been seeing more and more black women online talk about,

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Speaker 2: you know, just a need for protection. And so for

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Speaker 2: those of our audience members that have not seen this,

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Speaker 2: I guess Mini Doc if you will, cause you kind

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Speaker 2: of just share, Like, so now you are officially.

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Speaker 3: A gun owner. Oh yes, definitely and can't come for her.

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Speaker 3: I mean you can try it.

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Speaker 2: You can try, but.

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Speaker 3: I don't recommend it, but feel free, but can.

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Speaker 2: You kind of share your journey because I watched to

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Speaker 2: DOAC and I was like, ah, this gonna makes so

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Speaker 2: much sense stuff for sure.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, I definitely don't believe people should be

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Speaker 3: able to own guns. I think it's absurd how many

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Speaker 3: guns are in this country. There are actually more guns

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Speaker 3: than people in the United States, and truly no other

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Speaker 3: country in the world has that, no other country. And

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Speaker 3: we also have a populist that seems more than willing

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Speaker 3: to use those guns in public, to use those guns

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Speaker 3: to wreak incredible havoc, to take an enormous amount of

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Speaker 3: lives at one time, so fundamentally I'm opposed to guns. However,

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Speaker 3: you know, when you write and you're a black woman,

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Speaker 3: a queer black woman, a fat black woman, and you

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Speaker 3: have opinions opinions that quite frankly are not that radical,

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Speaker 3: like women are people, and stop killing us when we're unarmed,

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Speaker 3: or quite frankly, stop killing us under any circumstances, like

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Speaker 3: just basic you know, human rights, one on one things.

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Speaker 3: People really don't like it. And some people, of course,

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Speaker 3: are just going to troll you on social media, which

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Speaker 3: is annoying and sometimes painful, but it is what it

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Speaker 3: is and it's not a big deal. But sometimes you

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Speaker 3: also get threats. And I've gotten threats for fifteen years now,

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Speaker 3: so I'm used to the threats, but they have gotten

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Speaker 3: sharper and more specific over time, and some of them

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Speaker 3: have indicated, oh, this person isn't just angry because of

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Speaker 3: what they read. They've done some research. And then I

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Speaker 3: got married and my wife is Jewish, and the threats

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Speaker 3: started taking on a very anti Semitic tone, and for

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Speaker 3: me that was just like, okay, well now I'm done.

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Speaker 3: And my brother Joel was an avid gun enthusiast and

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Speaker 3: no one in the family knows where he got this

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Speaker 3: from It was just very like what And he had

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Speaker 3: long tried to convince our other brother, Michael Junior and

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Speaker 3: I to take up gun ownership or to get into it,

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Speaker 3: and Michael and I were like, no, thank you. Uh.

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Speaker 3: And then finally I thought, well, you know, let me

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Speaker 3: give it a go. And so during the pandemic, we

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Speaker 3: bought a gun, and my wife and I took gun

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Speaker 3: classes and learned how to use one. And you know,

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Speaker 3: it's not you know, people always overestimate how interesting it is.

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Speaker 3: It's actually not that interesting. It's not even something I

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Speaker 3: think about every day. But I do know that if

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Speaker 3: someone who doesn't belong in my home enters, I have

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Speaker 3: an additional means of trying to protect myself.

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Speaker 2: I mean, have you have you ever got a gun, Mandy?

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Speaker 1: I mean a BB gun when I was about seven

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Speaker 1: years old, and the kickback what do you call it

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Speaker 1: when it.

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Speaker 3: Like goes the recoil or kickback works too?

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Speaker 1: Oh well, it kicked me in the teeth. I'm surprised

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Speaker 1: I have all of that. I don't know how was

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Speaker 1: I holding it for to kick me in the teeth.

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Speaker 1: I don't know. I couldn't tell you. But I grew

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Speaker 1: up in Georgia's so there was lots of BB guns around.

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Speaker 1: But yeah, my husband works in for the federal government.

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Speaker 1: His brother is an ATF agent, and I have two

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Speaker 1: little boys, and so my opinions on gun ownership are

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Speaker 1: quite severe. Like I just am like it's the devil,

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Speaker 1: like never shall it enter this home, Like it's just

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Speaker 1: asking for trouble. I do get my husband and his brother.

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Speaker 1: They have been to the shooting ranges, they have trained

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Speaker 1: with federal agents, like they understand. I love that you

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Speaker 1: and your wife took classes, you know, for me, educated

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Speaker 1: trained gun owner who learned safety and all that, Like

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Speaker 1: that's much different than you know and t if when

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Speaker 1: you were when you were saying describing your idea of

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Speaker 1: a gun owner, and that was a very different picture.

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Speaker 1: For me. It's like a police officer, like just walking

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Speaker 1: around wielding that kind of power. It's it scares. But

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Speaker 1: I also like raising these two little boys, I feel

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Speaker 1: I feel not outnumbered, but I feel like it's inevitable

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Speaker 1: that it will be a conversation at some point because

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Speaker 1: gun culture is so infused into kid culture, like thin everywhere,

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Speaker 1: even the cute video games like I used to play

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Speaker 1: Duck Hunter. You know, like everything has guns and it

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Speaker 1: water guns. You can't like everything is guns all the time.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, my mom wouldn't allow us to play with guns

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Speaker 3: growing up, or barbie dolls for similar reasons. Wait what

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Speaker 3: kinda just water guns?

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Speaker 1: Were no?

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Speaker 3: No or just any call guns, no toy guns, no

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Speaker 3: water guns. And she was looking back, she was right like,

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Speaker 3: oh yeah, normalize it. She also, I mean, this is

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Speaker 3: gonna make her sound strange, but she's interesting. She wouldn't

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Speaker 3: let us play with stuffed animals because animals are supposed

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Speaker 3: to be scary, and she doesn't believe in teddy bears

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Speaker 3: because bears are vicious. So now I have tons of

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Speaker 3: teddy bears. Obviously, we all work through our traumas one

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Speaker 3: way or another.

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Speaker 1: But no, my kids growing up and having to have

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Speaker 1: like a gun cabinet because mommy wouldn't let them. Ever.

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Speaker 2: Absolutely, do you think there's like an intersectionality between gun

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Speaker 2: ownership and economic access?

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Speaker 3: You know, yeah, sometimes, but you know the reality is

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Speaker 3: guns are really cheap. Now if you are poor and

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Speaker 3: living paycheck to paycheck, No, you probably don't have three

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Speaker 3: hundred and four hundred, five hundred extra dollars to buy

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Speaker 3: a gun. So yes, there's definitely something there, and a

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Speaker 3: lot of gun owners like the reality is that the

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Speaker 3: majority of Americans do not own guns, and so the

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Speaker 3: people who do own guns, like, they own a lot

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Speaker 3: of guns, and it takes a lot of money to

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Speaker 3: have that many guns and to have some of the

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Speaker 3: more elaborate rifles, long gun, semi automatic weapons that people

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Speaker 3: collect or whatever you used to arm their little militias

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Speaker 3: of their families. So there can be a connection. But unfortunately,

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Speaker 3: depending on how you think about it, you know, it's

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Speaker 3: just very easy to buy a gun. It's very affordable,

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Speaker 3: and so you would think that that would be more

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Speaker 3: of a barrier, but it isn't because guns are so accessible.

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Speaker 3: I had no when I started getting into this and

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Speaker 3: doing some research, I actually had no idea how cheap

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Speaker 3: guns were. It's so disconcerting to like see a gun

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Speaker 3: and then the price tag is like three ninety nine.

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Speaker 3: That is certainly money, but when you think about what

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Speaker 3: a gun can do, it's just like wow. So this

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Speaker 3: is a very accessible price point when you think about it,

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Speaker 3: because it's not something you're going to buy every week.

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Speaker 3: It's something you're going to buy one and done.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I saved up from my prom dress. It

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Speaker 1: was two hundred and eighty seven dollars on them forget

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Speaker 1: it and like they're eighteen. Other was just something that

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Speaker 1: came out that said, the there's so many mass shootings.

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Speaker 1: How can I remember the Uvalde the person who, the

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Speaker 1: monster who who was responsible for the Uvalde shooting? He

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Speaker 1: had saved up before his eighteenth birthday. In a minute

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Speaker 1: he turned eighteen. He was like, and here's my ar fifteen. Roxane.

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Speaker 1: I wanted to ask you because I mean, you are

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Speaker 1: your work is so important to me and so many others.

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Speaker 1: I know I'm not alone in that, and it's been

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Speaker 1: so empowering and how authentic you are and sharing your story,

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Speaker 1: especially your book Hunger, was especially poignant to me. With

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Speaker 1: this new project, why turn the lens toward gun ownership?

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Speaker 1: Do you hope that it'll be empowering? And in what way?

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Speaker 3: No? I mean no, I don't ever make work with

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Speaker 3: the ambition of being empowering, because I always harbor I

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Speaker 3: think of healthy mistrust about like things that are framed

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Speaker 3: as empowering, empowering, Why empowering for who? And it also

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Speaker 3: there's a I think a level of hubris there where

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Speaker 3: you say I'm trying to empower people. What makes you

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Speaker 3: think you can? Instead? I was just interested in how

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Speaker 3: do you think about gun ownership as a black feminist,

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Speaker 3: Like how do you reconcile those two things? And I

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Speaker 3: actually don't know if they can be reconciled, but I

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Speaker 3: do think it's interesting because, as you mentioned earlier, you know,

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Speaker 3: we tend to think that of gun ownership as a

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Speaker 3: white thing, and at least I do. And as I

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Speaker 3: bought a gun and started going to the gun range,

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Speaker 3: I recognized or I realized, oh my god, I'm surrounded

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Speaker 3: by black women. This is really interesting. Now I live

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Speaker 3: in Englewood, so you're to find black people in Englewood.

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Speaker 3: It's a predominantly black community still, thank god.

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Speaker 1: But.

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Speaker 3: It was still like, huh. It really forced me to rethink,

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Speaker 3: and that was actually the genesis of this essay, just thinking, oh,

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Speaker 3: this is really challenging my preconceived notions. And even at

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Speaker 3: the gun store, it was mostly white men, but there

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Speaker 3: were black women there buying guns, buying ammunition, et cetera.

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Speaker 3: And I was curious whenever black women do something, I

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Speaker 3: find black women endlessly interesting. And so I was just like,

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Speaker 3: let me really sort of see what I can find

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Speaker 3: out here. And it was really interesting to learn that

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Speaker 3: Black women are the fastest growing demographic of gun owners.

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Speaker 3: And I think it's because a lot of us realize

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Speaker 3: no one's coming to save us, Like we know that

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Speaker 3: more than anyone. Nobody cares about us except us, and

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Speaker 3: I hope that we change that. But that's not our

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Speaker 3: job to change how people view us. There's nothing we

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Speaker 3: can do that we have not already done. We should

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Speaker 3: not have to audition to be treated as human. So

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Speaker 3: given the way that things are, like, let me do

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Speaker 3: what I can do to protect myself.

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Speaker 2: It's so interesting because Black women are like the fastest

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Speaker 2: growing demographics in the space of entrepreneurship, that's systemographic, going

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Speaker 2: to college. But I mean, I feel like in every

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Speaker 2: area we are, I wonder why that is.

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Speaker 1: I think we're very ambitious and not just around ambition

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Speaker 1: if we know the answer, and.

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Speaker 3: I think that we know, Like I think also for

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Speaker 3: one of the first times we can but like, if

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Speaker 3: there's one thing a black woman is going to do,

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Speaker 3: she's going to get a degree, period, and so you know,

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Speaker 3: I just think we also, for the first time in history,

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Speaker 3: have more available resources and time to do this we have,

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Speaker 3: you know, still all of the same responsibilities, but I

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Speaker 3: just think we're more encouraged now there are more avenue use,

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Speaker 3: there's more ways of gaining confidence to do these kinds

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Speaker 3: of things. Of course, student loans which are problematic, but nonetheless,

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Speaker 3: I mean they allowed me to go to grad school.

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Speaker 3: So I think a lot of us recognize, Okay, let

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Speaker 3: me take these low interest loans and see what I

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Speaker 3: can do about getting a degree, or gun ownership or

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Speaker 3: starting a And you know, even with starting a business,

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Speaker 3: like how am I going to generate generational wealth? How

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Speaker 3: am I even going to support my family today? Like

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Speaker 3: not even thinking that far ahead in ways that I

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Speaker 3: can do so on my own terms without having to

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Speaker 3: compromise myself as much as I would if I were

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Speaker 3: to work for someone else. And so we see a

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Speaker 3: lot of entrepreneurship and it's great.

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Speaker 2: Hold that thought and we'll be right back.

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Speaker 1: State farm agents are small business owners too, so they

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Speaker 1: know how to help you choose personalized policies that fit

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Speaker 1: your needs, like a good neighbor. State farm is there.

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Speaker 1: Talk to your local agent today. So I want to

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Speaker 1: talk about well, yes, gun ownership, but I also want

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Speaker 1: to talk about like Sonia Massy, Like we can't ignore

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Speaker 1: that that just happened. I mean, I what I like

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Speaker 1: about and what challenges me with some of your writing

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Speaker 1: and even this project, is that you're not trying to

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Speaker 1: offer answers. You're literally just looking at a question. But

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Speaker 1: I can't help but ask in that situation, like how

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Speaker 1: do you feel about Sonia Massy? I mean she had

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Speaker 1: a pot of boiling water and her life was taken

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Speaker 1: from her. Do you think if we look to gun

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Speaker 1: ownership as a way of protecting ourselves, like, how does that? Like?

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Speaker 1: Can it work? Can it will be be more protected

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Speaker 1: or more endangered? It?

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Speaker 3: See, well, the thing is we're always endangered, So no,

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Speaker 3: we won't be more endangered, but will we be more protected?

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Speaker 3: I don't think there's anything more that can actually protect us.

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Speaker 3: And that also extends to black men. Look at Tamiya

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Speaker 3: Rice a child, look at Trayvon Martin, Filando Castile, Tatiana,

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Speaker 3: Tatiana Jefferson. The list is so long, It's so long,

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Speaker 3: it gets longer every year. So I you know, I

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Speaker 3: think I did think about that because like if police

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Speaker 3: came into my house and I thought it was an

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Speaker 3: intruder and I was holding a gun. I would absolutely

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Speaker 3: lose my life. That actually happened. I can't remember his name,

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Speaker 3: but he was an air Force. He was a member

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Speaker 3: of the Air Force. It happened probably a month and

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Speaker 3: a half ago, where he thought the police were an intruder.

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Speaker 3: He had his gun. He's a legal registered gun owner

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Speaker 3: in his home, standing his ground, and it did not matter.

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Speaker 3: And So when I think about Sonya Massey, what really

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Speaker 3: breaks my heart? I mean, all of it breaks my heart,

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Speaker 3: but what really breaks my heart is that she called

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Speaker 3: the police because she was afraid, while also knowing she

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Speaker 3: should be afraid of the police. Because the first thing

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Speaker 3: she said to them was don't hurt me, and they're like,

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Speaker 3: why would we hurt you?

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Speaker 2: And now?

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Speaker 3: And then they did, like a pot of boiling water

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Speaker 3: isn't going to do anything to you? I mean. And

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Speaker 3: it just seems like the police department is a vocational

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Speaker 3: program for cowards, because so many of these officers say,

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Speaker 3: I was afraid for my life. I was afraid. I

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Speaker 3: was afraid, Like you're afraid of a woman in her

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Speaker 3: nightgown holding a pot of water? Back up, like, I mean,

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Speaker 3: what is she going to do to you? And even

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Speaker 3: if you're afraid. I just don't understand why taking someone's

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Speaker 3: life is your means of addressing your fear. So did

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Speaker 3: you'll see.

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Speaker 1: That he had been to like five different Is that true?

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Speaker 1: I need to like vet that source. But I had

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Speaker 1: read that he was a part of five different police precincts,

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Speaker 1: and and it was just going back to the idea

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Speaker 1: that there's no like, there's no stopping a bad cop

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Speaker 1: from getting like who's been suspended, for example, in one

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Speaker 1: district or whatever the jurisdiction is, moving to another area

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Speaker 1: getting a new job as a police officer. Like, they

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Speaker 1: don't do serious checks on that kind of thing. So

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Speaker 1: he was allowed to go from precinct to precinct to

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Speaker 1: precinct to precinct. Clearly an issue, and I think there'll

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Speaker 1: be more to come on that, but.

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Speaker 3: I tend to point know that, but I'm not surprised.

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Speaker 3: Like the young not the young. The officer who killed

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Speaker 3: Tamir Rice was recently found working for a sheriff's department

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Speaker 3: somewhere and now, of course he has been let go

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Speaker 3: because they didn't bother to do a background check. That's

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Speaker 3: someone who's supposed to serve and protect. It's fine blowing.

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Speaker 3: What do you mean you didn't do a background check.

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Speaker 1: I mean I had to fire someone before they were

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Speaker 1: even on the job because they lied about going to

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Speaker 1: NYU all the way, like didn't have the full degree,

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Speaker 1: just went for a year and the JAR was like, yeah, no,

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Speaker 1: we don't allow that, and they were gone. So that's insane.

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Speaker 2: You know, this is a country where you know, you

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Speaker 2: have a family, you can have vote, but you can

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Speaker 2: be president.

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Speaker 1: So well, let's lighten it up. How do you feel

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Speaker 1: about Kamala Harris as president? Roxanne?

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Speaker 2: Is that lightning it up?

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Speaker 1: Were you one of the forty four thousand.

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Speaker 3: No, I was not, but I would have been. I

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Speaker 3: think that it's just I'm all in. I think that

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Speaker 3: we should all be all in for Kamala Harris, and

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Speaker 3: I know that that some people don't like that. And

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Speaker 3: I'm not saying that we just unequivocally and uncritically engage

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Speaker 3: with her. I'm actually excited that we have a candidate

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Speaker 3: that we can learn more about, that we can ask

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Speaker 3: questions of, that we can make demands of. And so

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Speaker 3: I think this is this is a great opportunity to

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Speaker 3: push Kamala further left, to find out what she intends

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Speaker 3: to do about Gaza and stopping the war there and

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Speaker 3: this completely breathtaking and senseless loss of life. You know,

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Speaker 3: but I think it's I think she's a phenomenal candidate,

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Speaker 3: and I'm very comfortable saying that, Yeah, yes, there are

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Speaker 3: many of things we can critique and should critique her

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Speaker 3: history as a cop and a prosecutor, and some of

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Speaker 3: the choices she made in those positions, Yes, those deserve critique.

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Speaker 3: But Donald Trump remains an existential threat.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I think she'd also welcome the critique, and

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Speaker 1: you know, if it wasn't, I think she would be, like,

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Speaker 1: she would be open to that. Like you said, she's

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Speaker 1: like malleable, flexible, like we all should be open to feedback,

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Speaker 1: open to question, open to change. And I do think, like, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean it sounds like you're saying, maybe, like being

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Speaker 1: under Biden, she was a bit more moderate, and maybe now.

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Speaker 3: It's not even under Biden. I think that all Democrat

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Speaker 3: politicians are moderate because they feel like that's how they're

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Speaker 3: going to reach independence. And like those random conservative voters

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Speaker 3: who like the Obama voters, so you know, I think

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Speaker 3: moderate is except for AOC Bernie Sanders, who in some ways.

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Speaker 3: It's actually kind of moderate too, but has far more

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Speaker 3: leftist policies than most elan Omar Rashida Talib. You know,

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Speaker 3: like there are a few left truly leftist politicians, but

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Speaker 3: most of them are incredibly moderate, and so it would

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Speaker 3: just be great to push her further left the way

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Speaker 3: that all candidates on the left have been pushed left

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Speaker 3: by progressive constituents. And we'll see what happens. And I

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Speaker 3: do also believe it's great that we get to finally

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Speaker 3: have political imagination again. I'm actually writing about this right now.

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Speaker 3: We have just been told like we have to vote

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Speaker 3: between the ancient man and the ancient man, the ancient

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Speaker 3: man who maybe is in decline, or the dictator who

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Speaker 3: is going to end democracy and kill us all. It's

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Speaker 3: not a choice, like we are not really given choices,

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Speaker 3: and we kind of don't have a choice with you know,

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Speaker 3: Kamala Harris, but we also do. I'm very encouraged. And

430
00:25:34,240 --> 00:25:38,560
Speaker 3: you know, for so long people distablished excuse me, established

431
00:25:38,800 --> 00:25:42,639
Speaker 3: democrats have been like not yet, not now, we have

432
00:25:42,760 --> 00:25:46,159
Speaker 3: to you know, get past this hump. And finally this

433
00:25:46,280 --> 00:25:49,520
Speaker 3: time people put their foot down and said, no, we're

434
00:25:50,160 --> 00:25:52,200
Speaker 3: doing it now, and I think if we can start

435
00:25:52,280 --> 00:25:58,879
Speaker 3: now with Kamala Harris, I'm really encouraged by looking at

436
00:25:58,920 --> 00:26:03,760
Speaker 3: the younger Democrats for twenty twenty eight. Well, at this point,

437
00:26:03,760 --> 00:26:08,400
Speaker 3: there'll be twenty twenty thirty two if she is successful

438
00:26:08,440 --> 00:26:13,159
Speaker 3: in her bid for the presidency and really start saying

439
00:26:13,520 --> 00:26:17,280
Speaker 3: instead of tomorrow today. So I think this is the

440
00:26:17,320 --> 00:26:20,320
Speaker 3: beginning of a shift, and I'm excited about that.

441
00:26:21,840 --> 00:26:24,119
Speaker 1: I'm so glad because yeah, it feels that way. It

442
00:26:24,160 --> 00:26:26,320
Speaker 1: feels like I mean, I was in college when Obama

443
00:26:26,840 --> 00:26:29,480
Speaker 1: was elected, but I feel just as excited, even more

444
00:26:29,520 --> 00:26:31,600
Speaker 1: so because now I know what the hell's going on

445
00:26:31,680 --> 00:26:34,439
Speaker 1: a lot more than just yay, we're excited black guys winning.

446
00:26:34,960 --> 00:26:37,560
Speaker 1: Like now, it's like, oh, the stakes are high as

447
00:26:37,640 --> 00:26:41,480
Speaker 1: the fuck, Like we gotta yes, call to action. I'm

448
00:26:41,560 --> 00:26:44,040
Speaker 1: very excited. Do you have any plans to I mean,

449
00:26:44,080 --> 00:26:46,600
Speaker 1: you have so much going on, and I know that

450
00:26:46,640 --> 00:26:49,320
Speaker 1: you're not you don't shy away from politics and your writing,

451
00:26:49,760 --> 00:26:54,679
Speaker 1: but any plans to support the campaign? Host another?

452
00:26:55,720 --> 00:26:59,159
Speaker 3: Absolutely going to support the campaign. I'm going to be

453
00:26:59,200 --> 00:27:03,680
Speaker 3: a campaign it what does that mean? It means that

454
00:27:04,000 --> 00:27:07,720
Speaker 3: you do events on behalf of the campaign. You can

455
00:27:07,840 --> 00:27:11,080
Speaker 3: host fundraisers, you know, just find ways of contributing and

456
00:27:11,119 --> 00:27:16,000
Speaker 3: supporting the campaign. And I just I'm doing it because

457
00:27:16,000 --> 00:27:20,240
Speaker 3: I remember in twenty sixteen I was supportive of Hillary Clinton,

458
00:27:20,400 --> 00:27:24,640
Speaker 3: but I just didn't want to deal with nonsense. And

459
00:27:24,760 --> 00:27:26,680
Speaker 3: also I was like, she's going to win, Like this

460
00:27:26,720 --> 00:27:29,040
Speaker 3: is the k Quah. There's simply no way that the

461
00:27:29,080 --> 00:27:32,320
Speaker 3: former Secretary of State and United States Senator is going

462
00:27:32,359 --> 00:27:37,679
Speaker 3: to lose too associopath, I was wrong, And it's not

463
00:27:37,720 --> 00:27:40,480
Speaker 3: that I think that my support would have shifted the election.

464
00:27:40,600 --> 00:27:43,280
Speaker 3: I'm not completely out of my mind. It's just that

465
00:27:43,600 --> 00:27:48,200
Speaker 3: I was so worried about the wrong things that I

466
00:27:48,240 --> 00:27:52,639
Speaker 3: didn't say enough given what was at stake. And I

467
00:27:52,680 --> 00:27:55,480
Speaker 3: think you can be supportive of candidates while being critical

468
00:27:55,480 --> 00:27:58,480
Speaker 3: of candidates. And another thing we have to I think

469
00:27:58,480 --> 00:28:00,639
Speaker 3: this is an opportunity for is to get rid of

470
00:28:00,680 --> 00:28:04,480
Speaker 3: stand culture and politics, like we do not have to

471
00:28:04,560 --> 00:28:10,560
Speaker 3: stand Kamala Harris to support her for president, and quite frankly,

472
00:28:10,600 --> 00:28:14,639
Speaker 3: I think it's disrespectful to stand people to engage with

473
00:28:14,680 --> 00:28:19,280
Speaker 3: them uncritically, like do you think she's incapable of withstanding

474
00:28:19,320 --> 00:28:24,439
Speaker 3: critique as the literal vice president of someone a black woman,

475
00:28:24,640 --> 00:28:30,439
Speaker 3: a South Asian woman, so accomplished. She's been there, done that.

476
00:28:30,720 --> 00:28:33,159
Speaker 3: She knows critique. She can handle it. I'm sorry, but

477
00:28:33,200 --> 00:28:36,400
Speaker 3: she can. And so I think it's a really great

478
00:28:36,440 --> 00:28:40,320
Speaker 3: opportunity for us to learn how to engage with people

479
00:28:40,720 --> 00:28:44,200
Speaker 3: and do so in ways that are interesting and useful.

480
00:28:44,640 --> 00:28:48,480
Speaker 1: My love language is getting feedback. Maybe it's a writer thing,

481
00:28:48,520 --> 00:28:50,280
Speaker 1: Like if there's an editor who reads my work and

482
00:28:50,320 --> 00:28:52,600
Speaker 1: then it has no feedback, I'm like, so you hate me,

483
00:28:52,760 --> 00:28:55,000
Speaker 1: Like so you don't care enough to think about this

484
00:28:55,080 --> 00:28:57,040
Speaker 1: really carefully and like give that kind of feedback.

485
00:28:58,440 --> 00:29:02,200
Speaker 2: I have you mentioned Kamala as a black woman. So

486
00:29:02,240 --> 00:29:07,360
Speaker 2: I posted something about her on social and someone said,

487
00:29:07,480 --> 00:29:10,000
Speaker 2: stop calling her a black woman. She's not a black woman.

488
00:29:10,160 --> 00:29:14,720
Speaker 2: What are your thoughts about? Like, I've been seeing that

489
00:29:14,880 --> 00:29:15,320
Speaker 2: a lot.

490
00:29:15,480 --> 00:29:16,400
Speaker 1: This is not a mixed thing.

491
00:29:16,480 --> 00:29:21,080
Speaker 3: Is First of all, she's an AKA. Not that I

492
00:29:21,080 --> 00:29:23,560
Speaker 3: mean you can be non black and be an AKA,

493
00:29:24,640 --> 00:29:29,080
Speaker 3: but I mean, let's be b Yes, I know that

494
00:29:29,120 --> 00:29:32,640
Speaker 3: I've seen at least one white AKA in my time. Wow,

495
00:29:32,880 --> 00:29:37,120
Speaker 3: but like, be for real, she's also South Asian. I

496
00:29:37,160 --> 00:29:39,320
Speaker 3: don't ever want to take that away. I think that

497
00:29:39,360 --> 00:29:42,760
Speaker 3: when you're biracial, yes, you you come from two different

498
00:29:42,760 --> 00:29:46,120
Speaker 3: cultures and you should have every right to acknowledge those cultures.

499
00:29:46,400 --> 00:29:50,480
Speaker 3: But we live in a world, sadly that doesn't care.

500
00:29:51,320 --> 00:29:53,040
Speaker 3: We live in a world that will tend to look

501
00:29:53,040 --> 00:29:57,440
Speaker 3: at her and her beautiful silk press as a black woman. First,

502
00:29:58,120 --> 00:29:59,280
Speaker 3: she's a black woman.

503
00:29:59,520 --> 00:30:01,760
Speaker 2: And I thought that was only had to google. I'm like,

504
00:30:01,880 --> 00:30:05,280
Speaker 2: so her dad is Jamaican black, Okay, like her mom

505
00:30:06,680 --> 00:30:12,240
Speaker 2: is Asian. And I thought to myself, so we're all claiming,

506
00:30:12,480 --> 00:30:14,920
Speaker 2: you know, President Obama as black. I don't think any.

507
00:30:15,040 --> 00:30:16,800
Speaker 2: I've never heard a black person say he's not black,

508
00:30:17,080 --> 00:30:21,000
Speaker 2: but then they're mean. But I just thought that was

509
00:30:21,000 --> 00:30:24,320
Speaker 2: odd because I'm just like, if anything, she's even more brown.

510
00:30:24,400 --> 00:30:26,600
Speaker 2: I just I'm not sure, like why for her is

511
00:30:26,680 --> 00:30:28,760
Speaker 2: because I've been getting that a lot, which is she's

512
00:30:28,800 --> 00:30:30,320
Speaker 2: not a black woman, She's not a black woman. Stopped

513
00:30:30,320 --> 00:30:32,840
Speaker 2: calling her that, and I'm like, what since Winda being

514
00:30:33,480 --> 00:30:36,800
Speaker 2: Jamaican not so, I don't know if they mean like

515
00:30:36,880 --> 00:30:37,760
Speaker 2: American black.

516
00:30:38,920 --> 00:30:44,520
Speaker 3: Well, there is a small segment of people, the Ados folks. Yes,

517
00:30:45,560 --> 00:30:49,560
Speaker 3: they are like, nah, you know, she's not one of us,

518
00:30:49,760 --> 00:30:54,160
Speaker 3: which is so unproductive. But I mean they say the

519
00:30:54,200 --> 00:30:55,080
Speaker 3: same thing about me.

520
00:30:55,040 --> 00:30:57,880
Speaker 2: So yeah, me too because my parents are both Nigerian, although.

521
00:30:57,640 --> 00:30:59,880
Speaker 3: Yeah, my parents are Vocaitian and it is what it is.

522
00:31:03,920 --> 00:31:05,720
Speaker 3: There's like I don't even like there's nothing to say

523
00:31:05,760 --> 00:31:07,960
Speaker 3: to it, and like you're entitled to your beliefs. And

524
00:31:08,280 --> 00:31:10,920
Speaker 3: I know I'm black, so onward we go.

525
00:31:11,240 --> 00:31:13,760
Speaker 2: I know, I'm like we had.

526
00:31:15,320 --> 00:31:21,640
Speaker 3: It's Monday so and sharing that. But you know, I

527
00:31:21,720 --> 00:31:25,360
Speaker 3: just I think there are people who are going to

528
00:31:25,400 --> 00:31:31,640
Speaker 3: waste their time between now and November fifth sort of

529
00:31:31,640 --> 00:31:34,680
Speaker 3: debating her identity. Her identity is actually not up for debate.

530
00:31:34,800 --> 00:31:37,200
Speaker 3: I look to people for how they identify, and I

531
00:31:37,280 --> 00:31:39,840
Speaker 3: follow suit. I do that with regard to almost every

532
00:31:39,880 --> 00:31:42,520
Speaker 3: aspect of identity, rather than trying to project what I

533
00:31:42,520 --> 00:31:44,600
Speaker 3: think they should be or who they are. People are

534
00:31:44,600 --> 00:31:46,480
Speaker 3: more than willing generally to tell you who they are,

535
00:31:46,760 --> 00:31:50,800
Speaker 3: and she identifies both. She identifies as biracial, but more

536
00:31:50,840 --> 00:31:53,080
Speaker 3: often than not, she refers to herself as a black woman,

537
00:31:54,560 --> 00:31:57,560
Speaker 3: and I don't think that means she denies her South

538
00:31:57,600 --> 00:32:00,800
Speaker 3: Asian heritage. She seems to love her mother very much

539
00:32:00,880 --> 00:32:02,880
Speaker 3: and seems to have had a very good relationship with

540
00:32:02,920 --> 00:32:06,320
Speaker 3: her mother. It's front and center. I mean, her name

541
00:32:06,400 --> 00:32:11,520
Speaker 3: is Kamala, so it's not ambiguous, and I just again

542
00:32:11,560 --> 00:32:15,360
Speaker 3: it speaks to this reluctance that people have for nuance, like, oh,

543
00:32:15,400 --> 00:32:17,239
Speaker 3: I don't want to think about anything that's just like

544
00:32:17,320 --> 00:32:21,600
Speaker 3: slightly too complicated. This is not actually complicated at all.

545
00:32:23,280 --> 00:32:26,840
Speaker 2: So well, I have a final question that I think

546
00:32:26,880 --> 00:32:29,200
Speaker 2: for someone who's listening and they kind of want to

547
00:32:29,200 --> 00:32:32,360
Speaker 2: get into your work, where would be a good place

548
00:32:32,440 --> 00:32:35,560
Speaker 2: to start? They're like, like, who is Roxyne Gay? I

549
00:32:35,600 --> 00:32:38,160
Speaker 2: want to I'm loving her, She's amazing. I want to

550
00:32:38,200 --> 00:32:43,440
Speaker 2: read more of her things. Where's a good place to start?

551
00:32:45,440 --> 00:32:47,400
Speaker 1: If you listen to Brown Ambition and you don't know

552
00:32:47,440 --> 00:32:51,280
Speaker 1: who Roxanne Gay is, we have bigger problems right now.

553
00:32:53,360 --> 00:32:56,960
Speaker 3: No, no, no, like I always remind myself no, Like,

554
00:32:57,120 --> 00:32:59,720
Speaker 3: few people have read your work, relatively speaking, Roxane, so

555
00:33:00,160 --> 00:33:02,960
Speaker 3: keep your shit together. I will say, A good place

556
00:33:03,000 --> 00:33:07,880
Speaker 3: to start is Hunger, okay or bad Feminist? I think

557
00:33:08,040 --> 00:33:12,680
Speaker 3: all of my work offers some semblance of who I am,

558
00:33:12,760 --> 00:33:19,840
Speaker 3: for sure, but Hunger is certainly the most personal thing

559
00:33:19,920 --> 00:33:23,920
Speaker 3: I've ever written, and Bad Feminists would give you a

560
00:33:23,960 --> 00:33:27,520
Speaker 3: sense of my thinking, or at least my thinking. But

561
00:33:27,640 --> 00:33:29,480
Speaker 3: the book was published ten years ago, but the essays

562
00:33:29,480 --> 00:33:33,040
Speaker 3: were written about twelve or thirteen years ago. And have

563
00:33:33,120 --> 00:33:35,320
Speaker 3: I evolved, Yes, but I stand by everything I wrote

564
00:33:35,360 --> 00:33:35,880
Speaker 3: in that book.

565
00:33:35,960 --> 00:33:38,920
Speaker 1: So you still go to scrabble matches?

566
00:33:38,960 --> 00:33:41,240
Speaker 3: Do you still do scrab I don't have time anymore,

567
00:33:41,360 --> 00:33:44,240
Speaker 3: but I would. I sure would. I play scrabble every

568
00:33:44,320 --> 00:33:49,360
Speaker 3: day though, so absolutely. You just never know when you're

569
00:33:49,400 --> 00:33:52,120
Speaker 3: going to be called into action. I'm ready. Let's go.

570
00:33:53,320 --> 00:33:55,840
Speaker 1: Also, the New York Times, your columnists there, you have

571
00:33:56,000 --> 00:34:00,760
Speaker 1: this new project. You can find the essay about ownership.

572
00:34:00,800 --> 00:34:04,080
Speaker 1: I believe it's on July thirty first. It's coming out

573
00:34:04,080 --> 00:34:05,720
Speaker 1: into the world through Everrand.

574
00:34:05,960 --> 00:34:11,760
Speaker 3: I think August fifth. I'm not sure. The date keeps moving,

575
00:34:12,760 --> 00:34:16,319
Speaker 3: but I'm pretty sure it's August fifth. But if it's

576
00:34:16,440 --> 00:34:17,760
Speaker 3: July thirty first, then.

577
00:34:18,400 --> 00:34:22,120
Speaker 1: I mean it was on July tenth when your publicist

578
00:34:22,200 --> 00:34:24,400
Speaker 1: emailed us it was July thirty first. But we know

579
00:34:24,600 --> 00:34:26,120
Speaker 1: it's fluidity. We're fluid.

580
00:34:26,160 --> 00:34:28,080
Speaker 3: You know everything's fluid. We're just going to go with

581
00:34:28,160 --> 00:34:28,520
Speaker 3: the flow.

582
00:34:29,160 --> 00:34:30,520
Speaker 1: The point is go find it.

583
00:34:30,520 --> 00:34:33,240
Speaker 3: Maybe soon. It's going to be soon on Everrand formerly

584
00:34:33,320 --> 00:34:34,000
Speaker 3: known as Script.

585
00:34:34,360 --> 00:34:36,080
Speaker 1: And it's not just you either. What I one thing

586
00:34:36,120 --> 00:34:38,120
Speaker 1: that's apparent to me is how supportive you are of

587
00:34:38,120 --> 00:34:41,399
Speaker 1: writers in your community, and like, I mean you held

588
00:34:41,440 --> 00:34:47,080
Speaker 1: the workshop recently for novel like novel novel writing Workshop.

589
00:34:47,840 --> 00:34:50,160
Speaker 1: And there's more than just you, you know, featured in

590
00:34:50,200 --> 00:34:53,879
Speaker 1: this project right on everrand, So there's several several other

591
00:34:53,920 --> 00:34:57,000
Speaker 1: authors that look fantastic. So we know black women make

592
00:34:57,080 --> 00:35:00,400
Speaker 1: up such a huge, if not the biggest, feel like

593
00:35:00,600 --> 00:35:05,520
Speaker 1: readership in this country. And y'all love books, you'll love

594
00:35:05,520 --> 00:35:07,640
Speaker 1: to read, so I definitely think check this out. You

595
00:35:07,680 --> 00:35:09,879
Speaker 1: can also listen isn't it audio? Is it audio?

596
00:35:10,040 --> 00:35:13,759
Speaker 3: Or like it's both a e book and an audiobook,

597
00:35:14,480 --> 00:35:18,040
Speaker 3: and I hope people check it out. And there are

598
00:35:18,080 --> 00:35:21,160
Speaker 3: four other essays in the series by incredible writers. There's

599
00:35:22,040 --> 00:35:24,680
Speaker 3: a woman who wrote an essay about the history of

600
00:35:24,719 --> 00:35:27,960
Speaker 3: German shepherds and dog training. And it doesn't seem like

601
00:35:28,000 --> 00:35:31,120
Speaker 3: something you'd be into because I'm not a dog person. However,

602
00:35:32,200 --> 00:35:34,400
Speaker 3: like now, like anytime someone brings up a German shepherd,

603
00:35:34,400 --> 00:35:37,920
Speaker 3: I'm like, did you know? Which is great? And then

604
00:35:38,120 --> 00:35:44,000
Speaker 3: Runda Gerrar, a Palestinian American writer, wrote about raising her

605
00:35:44,040 --> 00:35:48,319
Speaker 3: son at seventeen and becoming a mother and learning how

606
00:35:48,360 --> 00:35:52,320
Speaker 3: to become a mother, and the German shepherd essay is

607
00:35:52,320 --> 00:35:56,680
Speaker 3: written by Elaine Castillo. Cookbook author and chef. Julia Turshen

608
00:35:56,760 --> 00:36:02,200
Speaker 3: wrote about getting into powerlifting and recognizing her own strength

609
00:36:02,239 --> 00:36:04,759
Speaker 3: and making peace with her body exactly as it is

610
00:36:04,800 --> 00:36:07,600
Speaker 3: and honoring her body as it is. And then Gabrielle Blot,

611
00:36:09,160 --> 00:36:14,120
Speaker 3: his Beautiful Black Woman writer wrote an essay about her

612
00:36:14,200 --> 00:36:19,480
Speaker 3: journey into psychedelics and sort of becoming a psychonaut.

613
00:36:20,880 --> 00:36:27,080
Speaker 1: I love it. I know Tiffany said final, but I

614
00:36:27,120 --> 00:36:32,239
Speaker 1: didn't agree to that, So I have another question. I'm

615
00:36:32,280 --> 00:36:35,560
Speaker 1: a negotiation coach. I actually do empower women. I'll tell

616
00:36:35,560 --> 00:36:37,960
Speaker 1: you how I empower them to be a badass and

617
00:36:38,040 --> 00:36:40,000
Speaker 1: ask for more. So I'm just wondering, like you are

618
00:36:40,040 --> 00:36:44,000
Speaker 1: someone who as a writer like I just think a

619
00:36:44,000 --> 00:36:47,320
Speaker 1: writer who has transitioned into this you know, empire, media,

620
00:36:47,360 --> 00:36:50,680
Speaker 1: empire and powerful woman. And you're not just writing books

621
00:36:50,680 --> 00:36:55,560
Speaker 1: like you are supporting yourself. You are. You are doing well,

622
00:36:55,719 --> 00:36:58,239
Speaker 1: at least from the outside looking in. I just wondered

623
00:36:58,719 --> 00:37:04,600
Speaker 1: if you could share and like experiences or observations negotiating

624
00:37:04,640 --> 00:37:07,960
Speaker 1: on your own behalf or having to figure out how

625
00:37:08,000 --> 00:37:11,520
Speaker 1: to get your value. I am such a huge fan

626
00:37:11,560 --> 00:37:16,239
Speaker 1: of you, but I wonder if you feel like you

627
00:37:16,239 --> 00:37:20,000
Speaker 1: know in the world that you are in publishing, entertainment,

628
00:37:20,000 --> 00:37:23,359
Speaker 1: whatever else, Like, are you having to fight for your

629
00:37:23,400 --> 00:37:25,560
Speaker 1: value and your worth? And then how do you deal

630
00:37:25,600 --> 00:37:25,840
Speaker 1: with that?

631
00:37:27,040 --> 00:37:28,920
Speaker 3: Yes, I still have to fight for my value and

632
00:37:28,960 --> 00:37:31,719
Speaker 3: my worth. I'm a Yes, I think when you're a

633
00:37:31,719 --> 00:37:34,759
Speaker 3: black woman, you always do. And sometimes I think, oh,

634
00:37:34,760 --> 00:37:37,560
Speaker 3: I'm negotiating myself so well. I'm so proud of myself.

635
00:37:37,600 --> 00:37:39,200
Speaker 3: And then I learned like what my peers are making

636
00:37:39,239 --> 00:37:44,040
Speaker 3: and I'm like, what the fuck? I have a fairly

637
00:37:44,280 --> 00:37:46,880
Speaker 3: no nolytaiculate that I have a great team around me.

638
00:37:47,360 --> 00:37:51,800
Speaker 3: I have an incredible entertainment lawyer who is an absolute shark,

639
00:37:52,280 --> 00:37:54,560
Speaker 3: and I have a literary agent and a TV and

640
00:37:54,560 --> 00:37:57,680
Speaker 3: film agent who are just phenomenal at what they do,

641
00:37:58,360 --> 00:38:01,520
Speaker 3: and so they do everything in their power to get

642
00:38:01,520 --> 00:38:04,759
Speaker 3: me as much as possible. And when I mean, it's

643
00:38:04,800 --> 00:38:08,279
Speaker 3: just there's only so much you can do when like

644
00:38:08,760 --> 00:38:11,120
Speaker 3: the person you're advocating for as a black woman, and

645
00:38:11,360 --> 00:38:15,640
Speaker 3: it actually it's really fucking racist and sad to have

646
00:38:15,680 --> 00:38:18,320
Speaker 3: to say that. It just shouldn't be this hard. It

647
00:38:18,360 --> 00:38:22,080
Speaker 3: shouldn't be this way. I shouldn't have to send this

648
00:38:22,200 --> 00:38:26,000
Speaker 3: team out to get what I'm worth and when I'm

649
00:38:26,040 --> 00:38:29,479
Speaker 3: advocating on my own behalf, it's also really challenging most

650
00:38:29,520 --> 00:38:32,040
Speaker 3: of the time. I actually will say with this Everran project,

651
00:38:32,360 --> 00:38:36,759
Speaker 3: it was not they were. They came correct the first

652
00:38:36,800 --> 00:38:41,319
Speaker 3: time around. I didn't even have to push for what

653
00:38:41,400 --> 00:38:43,759
Speaker 3: I wanted. They gave me what I wanted and then

654
00:38:43,840 --> 00:38:48,400
Speaker 3: some and that was rare, and I wish it wasn't.

655
00:38:49,320 --> 00:38:54,560
Speaker 3: But you know, the main thing that I've done to

656
00:38:54,600 --> 00:38:56,600
Speaker 3: be able to negotiate the way I want and to

657
00:38:56,680 --> 00:38:59,279
Speaker 3: be able to work for the amount of money that

658
00:38:59,320 --> 00:39:04,880
Speaker 3: I want is to have multiple income streams. So like

659
00:39:04,960 --> 00:39:09,680
Speaker 3: I have a day jobs and I write, and I

660
00:39:09,719 --> 00:39:13,400
Speaker 3: do some film and television. I obviously don't have children,

661
00:39:14,080 --> 00:39:16,840
Speaker 3: so that frees up quite a lot of time. But

662
00:39:18,040 --> 00:39:20,440
Speaker 3: I have put myself in a position and it's always

663
00:39:20,440 --> 00:39:22,160
Speaker 3: been this way that you can tell me no, and

664
00:39:22,239 --> 00:39:25,120
Speaker 3: I'm going to be fine. I may not be able

665
00:39:25,200 --> 00:39:31,080
Speaker 3: to go on an extra vacation perhaps or whatever, but

666
00:39:31,200 --> 00:39:38,319
Speaker 3: I have a lot of financial responsibilities. And you know,

667
00:39:38,400 --> 00:39:42,200
Speaker 3: my brother died and so he has his children that

668
00:39:42,440 --> 00:39:45,239
Speaker 3: my other brother and I now look after. So I'm

669
00:39:45,280 --> 00:39:49,040
Speaker 3: always going to make sure that my money is right

670
00:39:49,400 --> 00:39:51,800
Speaker 3: and I am never going to rely on one source

671
00:39:51,800 --> 00:39:55,440
Speaker 3: of income because you just can't trust it. And also

672
00:39:55,520 --> 00:40:00,200
Speaker 3: like there are economic downturns, a pandemic, I always just

673
00:40:00,239 --> 00:40:03,160
Speaker 3: need to know. And it's partly I think the Caribbean

674
00:40:03,160 --> 00:40:05,879
Speaker 3: mentality that I'm going to be okay no matter what.

675
00:40:06,040 --> 00:40:08,360
Speaker 3: And I'll also just go work at Starbucks if i

676
00:40:08,400 --> 00:40:11,120
Speaker 3: have to. I don't care. Money is money. A job

677
00:40:11,200 --> 00:40:14,080
Speaker 3: is a goddamn job. And I've had a job since

678
00:40:14,080 --> 00:40:16,319
Speaker 3: I was thirteen, so i am not afraid of work.

679
00:40:18,000 --> 00:40:19,760
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I'm so sorry for your loss.

680
00:40:20,080 --> 00:40:24,680
Speaker 3: Oh thank you, it was terrible. But go ahead.

681
00:40:24,920 --> 00:40:27,439
Speaker 1: I was going to ask if he you said during

682
00:40:27,480 --> 00:40:30,720
Speaker 1: the pandemic is when you purchased your first gun, I wondered.

683
00:40:31,080 --> 00:40:33,239
Speaker 1: I forgot if he had passed before that or no,

684
00:40:34,000 --> 00:40:36,120
Speaker 1: tell his baby says okay, oh he was.

685
00:40:36,120 --> 00:40:39,040
Speaker 3: So now I'm actually the I'm the older sister. Oh

686
00:40:39,200 --> 00:40:42,640
Speaker 3: your old Oh okay, yeah, Lord knows. He certainly moved

687
00:40:42,680 --> 00:40:44,560
Speaker 3: through the world like he was the oldest, but now

688
00:40:45,280 --> 00:40:48,799
Speaker 3: he was my baby brother, which was so funny. He

689
00:40:48,880 --> 00:40:52,600
Speaker 3: was a typical medical middle child, but he actually did know.

690
00:40:52,760 --> 00:40:56,759
Speaker 3: He's the one who gave me recommendations and like the

691
00:40:56,880 --> 00:41:02,200
Speaker 3: minute you ask him about guns, rule little look. And

692
00:41:02,280 --> 00:41:04,080
Speaker 3: so when I asked him, I was like, Joel in

693
00:41:04,160 --> 00:41:09,279
Speaker 3: like ten words or fewer? Oh no, what should I do?

694
00:41:09,320 --> 00:41:11,879
Speaker 3: Of course he gave me a thousand words. But that's

695
00:41:11,920 --> 00:41:15,760
Speaker 3: what makes him so lovable, and so he definitely knew

696
00:41:16,160 --> 00:41:19,040
Speaker 3: and was like, helped me with the purchase. He offered

697
00:41:19,040 --> 00:41:20,960
Speaker 3: to actually fly out to La to help me buy

698
00:41:21,000 --> 00:41:23,120
Speaker 3: the gun. I was like, I think I can do it.

699
00:41:23,200 --> 00:41:26,839
Speaker 3: I think I can. So after I bought it, I

700
00:41:26,840 --> 00:41:28,640
Speaker 3: was like, I did it, Joel, I did it, and

701
00:41:28,719 --> 00:41:30,839
Speaker 3: he was like, yes, all right, great, Now here are

702
00:41:30,840 --> 00:41:33,520
Speaker 3: the bullets you need to get to.

703
00:41:33,600 --> 00:41:34,680
Speaker 1: Actually buy the gun.

704
00:41:34,719 --> 00:41:35,239
Speaker 3: Do you get it?

705
00:41:35,280 --> 00:41:37,840
Speaker 1: Like it's like going to buy a steak at the

706
00:41:37,840 --> 00:41:40,480
Speaker 1: grocery store. Do you just pick it out, pay for

707
00:41:40,560 --> 00:41:42,600
Speaker 1: it or like what's the timeline?

708
00:41:42,640 --> 00:41:45,799
Speaker 3: Basically, well, it depends on where you live. In some

709
00:41:45,840 --> 00:41:48,160
Speaker 3: states you can go pick it out like a piece

710
00:41:48,160 --> 00:41:50,759
Speaker 3: of meat and walk out the store. In California, you go,

711
00:41:50,800 --> 00:41:52,200
Speaker 3: you pick out the piece of meat and then they

712
00:41:52,200 --> 00:41:54,919
Speaker 3: hold it in the freezer for ten days. Okay, which

713
00:41:54,960 --> 00:41:55,360
Speaker 3: is great.

714
00:41:55,480 --> 00:41:55,839
Speaker 1: They do.

715
00:41:56,280 --> 00:41:58,240
Speaker 3: It's annoying and that you have to like go back.

716
00:41:59,000 --> 00:42:02,040
Speaker 3: But you can only buy one gun a month in

717
00:42:02,080 --> 00:42:06,360
Speaker 3: California there has been a legal challenge to it. The

718
00:42:06,400 --> 00:42:09,800
Speaker 3: state Supreme Court recently overturned it. But if for whatever,

719
00:42:09,840 --> 00:42:11,960
Speaker 3: for whatever reason, the law is still in place, and

720
00:42:12,040 --> 00:42:13,759
Speaker 3: I think it will be. I think it's probably going

721
00:42:13,840 --> 00:42:18,800
Speaker 3: to go to the Big Supreme Court or the Ninth Circuit.

722
00:42:19,400 --> 00:42:22,680
Speaker 3: And you know, I think that California's gun laws are

723
00:42:23,280 --> 00:42:27,759
Speaker 3: restrictive and in a very healthy, insane way, like take

724
00:42:27,800 --> 00:42:30,160
Speaker 3: some time to think about it. Really, it's to prevent

725
00:42:30,200 --> 00:42:32,400
Speaker 3: you from buying a gun in the heat of the moment,

726
00:42:32,719 --> 00:42:36,719
Speaker 3: but also to allow the background check to happen. And

727
00:42:37,600 --> 00:42:41,279
Speaker 3: so then after ten days you get a call or

728
00:42:42,320 --> 00:42:44,279
Speaker 3: if you know, you're at an efficient gun shop, they'll

729
00:42:44,280 --> 00:42:46,120
Speaker 3: tell you that day you buy, you like, you can

730
00:42:46,160 --> 00:42:49,399
Speaker 3: come back after three pm. You know, ten days from now,

731
00:42:49,680 --> 00:42:51,200
Speaker 3: you go back, you pick up your gun, they do

732
00:42:51,239 --> 00:42:54,040
Speaker 3: a safety demonstration, they make sure you have a gun lock,

733
00:42:54,280 --> 00:42:56,200
Speaker 3: they give you a little case, and you can buy

734
00:42:56,200 --> 00:42:57,400
Speaker 3: whatever else you need, and off you go.

735
00:43:00,040 --> 00:43:03,480
Speaker 1: Did you feel like did you feel welcome in that space?

736
00:43:04,520 --> 00:43:06,839
Speaker 1: I'll say really quickly. In college I went with I

737
00:43:06,880 --> 00:43:14,920
Speaker 1: had a black queer friend of mine, his name was Isaiah.

738
00:43:15,000 --> 00:43:17,480
Speaker 1: We thought out of touch, but he was being bullied,

739
00:43:17,480 --> 00:43:19,320
Speaker 1: so bad. I'm from Georgia. I went to the University

740
00:43:19,360 --> 00:43:25,120
Speaker 1: of Georgia. Big historically, yeah, exactly, but he was being

741
00:43:25,160 --> 00:43:27,759
Speaker 1: bullied in college. He did not feel safe. He said

742
00:43:27,800 --> 00:43:29,920
Speaker 1: his neighbors were making threats to get hit against him.

743
00:43:29,920 --> 00:43:32,880
Speaker 1: He was out and I won't say like he was

744
00:43:32,920 --> 00:43:34,799
Speaker 1: out and proud, but he was just himself, you know,

745
00:43:34,840 --> 00:43:36,880
Speaker 1: and he didn't feel safe. He asked me to go

746
00:43:37,000 --> 00:43:39,040
Speaker 1: with him. I feel like it was like a Dix

747
00:43:39,120 --> 00:43:41,359
Speaker 1: or maybe it was Walmart. I don't know where we went,

748
00:43:42,120 --> 00:43:44,640
Speaker 1: and they like were like, you guys need to get

749
00:43:44,640 --> 00:43:47,440
Speaker 1: out of here, like they did not want to sell

750
00:43:47,840 --> 00:43:50,279
Speaker 1: us a gun, and i' and then like they said,

751
00:43:50,320 --> 00:43:53,520
Speaker 1: we'll call the police. It was so bizarre. I don't know,

752
00:43:53,719 --> 00:43:54,360
Speaker 1: that's not how.

753
00:43:54,239 --> 00:43:59,200
Speaker 3: Any of this works, but I mean, obviously I can,

754
00:43:59,280 --> 00:44:03,359
Speaker 3: but and you know, I did feel welcome. The thing

755
00:44:03,400 --> 00:44:06,120
Speaker 3: about the store was like they weren't trying to be

756
00:44:06,160 --> 00:44:09,799
Speaker 3: your little friend. However, these dudes all they do is

757
00:44:09,840 --> 00:44:13,719
Speaker 3: sell guns and they love it, and so they were

758
00:44:13,800 --> 00:44:17,359
Speaker 3: extremely helpful. They totally were great with a first time

759
00:44:17,400 --> 00:44:21,680
Speaker 3: gun buyer. I've thought it was wonderful because I actually

760
00:44:21,719 --> 00:44:24,200
Speaker 3: don't need to be their friend. I need to be

761
00:44:24,320 --> 00:44:27,759
Speaker 3: informed and they were really good about that, and in

762
00:44:27,800 --> 00:44:29,880
Speaker 3: their own way, I felt like they were super nice.

763
00:44:30,560 --> 00:44:35,400
Speaker 3: And you know, the thing about Los Angeles is it's

764
00:44:35,480 --> 00:44:38,480
Speaker 3: a really diverse city, which is not to say that

765
00:44:38,560 --> 00:44:41,799
Speaker 3: racism doesn't happen here and that there aren't segregated communities,

766
00:44:41,840 --> 00:44:46,080
Speaker 3: because there are, but everybody lives here from every single

767
00:44:46,200 --> 00:44:49,719
Speaker 3: like race or ethnicity, or religious background or whatever that

768
00:44:49,760 --> 00:44:51,879
Speaker 3: you can think of. And so most people here, it's

769
00:44:54,600 --> 00:44:58,600
Speaker 3: are very capable of getting along with others and just

770
00:44:58,800 --> 00:45:06,200
Speaker 3: being normal and so, well, California different than Georgia. It is,

771
00:45:06,480 --> 00:45:09,440
Speaker 3: you know, and I was you know, it depends on

772
00:45:09,520 --> 00:45:11,560
Speaker 3: you know, sometimes the South it's like, yeah, everyone knows

773
00:45:11,560 --> 00:45:14,160
Speaker 3: how to get along, and then you go into circumstances

774
00:45:14,160 --> 00:45:16,640
Speaker 3: like what you just articulated, and it's like, no, they

775
00:45:16,680 --> 00:45:18,080
Speaker 3: don't actually as.

776
00:45:18,040 --> 00:45:20,439
Speaker 1: Long as you're moving in a way that they're okay with. Yeah,

777
00:45:20,600 --> 00:45:23,840
Speaker 1: I mean you're in a space that they associate with. Yeah,

778
00:45:23,880 --> 00:45:27,120
Speaker 1: well I live in New York. Now, So how do

779
00:45:27,160 --> 00:45:32,719
Speaker 1: you like Batriod mentioned when you're talking about kids, I'm like, yeah,

780
00:45:33,080 --> 00:45:36,040
Speaker 1: the worst financial decision in a lot of ways is

781
00:45:36,080 --> 00:45:39,640
Speaker 1: to try to raise humans in this country, especially in

782
00:45:39,680 --> 00:45:42,160
Speaker 1: a very expensive state like New York. But I don't know.

783
00:45:42,200 --> 00:45:43,719
Speaker 1: It's don't ask me that now, because I was just

784
00:45:43,760 --> 00:45:46,520
Speaker 1: in LA for a week. And when I tell you,

785
00:45:46,760 --> 00:45:49,759
Speaker 1: it's the drink xan. No one I knew about the

786
00:45:49,800 --> 00:45:54,200
Speaker 1: sunshine and come on, but there's no mosquitoes I know

787
00:45:54,480 --> 00:45:55,719
Speaker 1: and no mosquitos.

788
00:45:55,800 --> 00:45:56,600
Speaker 3: No one understands.

789
00:45:56,600 --> 00:46:00,520
Speaker 1: Why are they not putting this in the tourism the commercials.

790
00:46:01,680 --> 00:46:05,000
Speaker 3: As your man, bring your babies, come on over, We're

791
00:46:05,040 --> 00:46:07,480
Speaker 3: ready for yousquito bite.

792
00:46:08,120 --> 00:46:10,440
Speaker 1: I came with the biggest deep deep woods. I was like,

793
00:46:10,480 --> 00:46:13,759
Speaker 1: they have nature. Oh my god, incredible.

794
00:46:14,920 --> 00:46:16,040
Speaker 3: It is an absolute dream.

795
00:46:16,120 --> 00:46:19,160
Speaker 1: I love question a lot of choices now, so I

796
00:46:19,200 --> 00:46:21,640
Speaker 1: will not I will defer, I will stop New York.

797
00:46:22,840 --> 00:46:25,080
Speaker 1: I'm figuring it out. Okay, I'm on a journey.

798
00:46:25,160 --> 00:46:26,600
Speaker 3: Yeah, I live in New York. Have time, So I

799
00:46:26,640 --> 00:46:28,920
Speaker 3: hear you. I hate I mean, I don't care for

800
00:46:28,960 --> 00:46:31,279
Speaker 3: New York, but I love a New Yorker. My wife

801
00:46:31,320 --> 00:46:32,400
Speaker 3: is a lifelong New Yorker.

802
00:46:32,880 --> 00:46:35,600
Speaker 1: And okay, are you guys like city people or burbs

803
00:46:35,640 --> 00:46:38,560
Speaker 1: people when you live in New York.

804
00:46:39,320 --> 00:46:40,120
Speaker 3: We live in Chelsea.

805
00:46:41,000 --> 00:46:42,840
Speaker 1: Oh okay, Well, if you're going to live in the city,

806
00:46:42,920 --> 00:46:44,279
Speaker 1: I think Chelsea is one of the best names.

807
00:46:44,360 --> 00:46:48,439
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's city. But I see trees once in a while,

808
00:46:48,760 --> 00:46:51,120
Speaker 3: not like a lot of trees, but like a tree.

809
00:46:51,719 --> 00:46:52,920
Speaker 1: Not that many tourists.

810
00:46:53,000 --> 00:46:55,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's why I like living in NewYork. People have

811
00:46:55,600 --> 00:46:57,719
Speaker 2: always had a lot to say about Nework. But I

812
00:46:57,760 --> 00:47:00,799
Speaker 2: love living here because people are amazing I think. I mean,

813
00:47:01,040 --> 00:47:03,920
Speaker 2: certainly you have you know who are not. But I

814
00:47:03,960 --> 00:47:07,239
Speaker 2: love the community component. I love. What I really love

815
00:47:07,239 --> 00:47:09,480
Speaker 2: about New York is I feel safe to be black here.

816
00:47:09,920 --> 00:47:13,520
Speaker 3: Wait, New York or Newark, Newark, New Jersey. Okay, yeah,

817
00:47:13,560 --> 00:47:16,200
Speaker 3: I work in New Brunswick and so I passed new

818
00:47:16,200 --> 00:47:18,440
Speaker 3: work all the time. I like And I also actually

819
00:47:18,520 --> 00:47:21,520
Speaker 3: had it. Did an event at Rutgers Newark the other day. Yes,

820
00:47:21,719 --> 00:47:24,399
Speaker 3: and a couple months ago. I like Newark, New York

821
00:47:24,480 --> 00:47:29,280
Speaker 3: is cute. Soccer team there, the soccer stadiums there. Sorry,

822
00:47:29,320 --> 00:47:31,120
Speaker 3: I know this is just a dumb but a New

823
00:47:31,160 --> 00:47:31,920
Speaker 3: York is cute.

824
00:47:32,440 --> 00:47:34,799
Speaker 1: Yeah, Tiffany is like the mayor. She's being I'm not,

825
00:47:35,280 --> 00:47:37,799
Speaker 1: but she is like so famous in Newark and you

826
00:47:37,840 --> 00:47:40,120
Speaker 1: can't even go anywhere. People all know her there.

827
00:47:40,719 --> 00:47:42,680
Speaker 3: And I've talked for you, Tiffany.

828
00:47:43,239 --> 00:47:45,600
Speaker 2: No, I just love being black amongst black people. I

829
00:47:45,800 --> 00:47:48,480
Speaker 2: think a walk every day. Sometimes I'm wearing my hoodie

830
00:47:48,840 --> 00:47:50,640
Speaker 2: and I never think to myself, oh my gosh, I

831
00:47:50,680 --> 00:47:53,320
Speaker 2: hope I don't. I'm not presenting us quote unquote dangerous

832
00:47:54,520 --> 00:47:58,239
Speaker 2: because it just feels safe to be black. You know,

833
00:47:58,600 --> 00:48:01,400
Speaker 2: our mayor is super black aroused Baraka, you know, the

834
00:48:01,800 --> 00:48:04,640
Speaker 2: son of the late Amri Baraka, which you know, and

835
00:48:04,680 --> 00:48:08,279
Speaker 2: so just you know, he's dedicated to making sure the

836
00:48:08,320 --> 00:48:11,680
Speaker 2: city is you know, it's a black city, and it's

837
00:48:11,719 --> 00:48:14,319
Speaker 2: a city that you know, you get to show up

838
00:48:14,320 --> 00:48:17,680
Speaker 2: as yourself, and their opportunities for us here and largely

839
00:48:17,680 --> 00:48:19,839
Speaker 2: which I'm so happy is the neighborhood I'm in. Every

840
00:48:19,880 --> 00:48:21,880
Speaker 2: time my house sells, we all hold our breath. We're like,

841
00:48:22,120 --> 00:48:22,640
Speaker 2: who bought it?

842
00:48:23,120 --> 00:48:23,279
Speaker 1: Oh?

843
00:48:23,400 --> 00:48:25,680
Speaker 2: Yes, so so far it's not gone. It's not gone

844
00:48:25,719 --> 00:48:29,200
Speaker 2: the way of Brooklyn. Just yet. People are holding still,

845
00:48:29,200 --> 00:48:31,520
Speaker 2: although we all get phone calls all day all night

846
00:48:31,520 --> 00:48:33,600
Speaker 2: about our property. But we've seen what happened to Brooklyn,

847
00:48:33,680 --> 00:48:34,759
Speaker 2: and people are more careful now.

848
00:48:34,960 --> 00:48:36,759
Speaker 3: We looked at a house in Harlem the other day

849
00:48:36,760 --> 00:48:40,439
Speaker 3: because I until recently had never lived I had lived

850
00:48:40,440 --> 00:48:45,399
Speaker 3: in predominantly white communities, and it's swearing. You just get

851
00:48:45,400 --> 00:48:46,880
Speaker 3: to a certain age where you're like, I don't want

852
00:48:46,920 --> 00:48:49,440
Speaker 3: to have to justify my existence every day and look

853
00:48:49,480 --> 00:48:54,160
Speaker 3: over my shoulder. And when the house owner opened the

854
00:48:54,200 --> 00:48:58,520
Speaker 3: house and saw that I was black, they were so happy,

855
00:48:58,600 --> 00:49:02,719
Speaker 3: and I was like, oh yeah. Someone else actually ended

856
00:49:02,760 --> 00:49:04,480
Speaker 3: up buying it because I wasn't ready to move as

857
00:49:04,560 --> 00:49:05,200
Speaker 3: quickly enough.

858
00:49:05,239 --> 00:49:10,040
Speaker 1: But I totally, hey, come on up to Greenberg West,

859
00:49:10,239 --> 00:49:13,880
Speaker 1: just the historically black community. I had the same experience.

860
00:49:13,880 --> 00:49:18,080
Speaker 1: The realtor was like, please buy this house. Black neighborhood,

861
00:49:18,480 --> 00:49:21,319
Speaker 1: but gentrifying is coming, all right. I'm on the I'm

862
00:49:21,320 --> 00:49:23,600
Speaker 1: on the air with two New York on air. I'm

863
00:49:23,640 --> 00:49:26,440
Speaker 1: with two New York Times best selling authors and I

864
00:49:26,480 --> 00:49:29,640
Speaker 1: can't not And I'm working on my first book, Roxanne

865
00:49:29,640 --> 00:49:34,440
Speaker 1: with Hashet with Legacy Lit, incredible publisher. Any tips writ

866
00:49:34,520 --> 00:49:38,120
Speaker 1: It's non fiction, but I'm just wondering heading into my

867
00:49:38,160 --> 00:49:43,280
Speaker 1: first baby. Have you started the book I started? I'm

868
00:49:43,320 --> 00:49:44,239
Speaker 1: like three chapters in.

869
00:49:44,680 --> 00:49:47,040
Speaker 3: Good you know, write the book you want to write

870
00:49:47,120 --> 00:49:50,799
Speaker 3: because your name is on the cover. Yes, and more.

871
00:49:51,239 --> 00:49:52,280
Speaker 3: Do you have a black editor?

872
00:49:52,800 --> 00:49:55,200
Speaker 1: I do? Christian Trumpman. What she's amazing.

873
00:49:55,600 --> 00:49:57,560
Speaker 3: I actually just got my first black editor because my

874
00:49:57,719 --> 00:50:01,439
Speaker 3: longtime editor left HarperCollins excited. I've never had a black

875
00:50:01,520 --> 00:50:03,520
Speaker 3: editor for books before I.

876
00:50:03,480 --> 00:50:04,600
Speaker 1: Got two black editors.

877
00:50:04,960 --> 00:50:08,240
Speaker 2: Oh over tever.

878
00:50:08,280 --> 00:50:10,560
Speaker 1: Look at like no, no, but look at Legacy Krishan

879
00:50:11,000 --> 00:50:13,279
Speaker 1: is the publisher of her own imprint at Hashet, and

880
00:50:13,280 --> 00:50:14,640
Speaker 1: she is just doing the damn thing.

881
00:50:15,000 --> 00:50:15,600
Speaker 3: I love that.

882
00:50:16,000 --> 00:50:17,040
Speaker 1: But more about you go ahead?

883
00:50:17,600 --> 00:50:20,400
Speaker 3: No, I just and I think Tiffany would agree, but

884
00:50:20,440 --> 00:50:22,439
Speaker 3: I would be curious to hear what Tiffany says as well.

885
00:50:22,480 --> 00:50:28,480
Speaker 3: But it's your book, yes, And oftentimes people I always

886
00:50:28,480 --> 00:50:31,919
Speaker 3: take editorial feedback. I'll start by saying that because I've

887
00:50:31,920 --> 00:50:34,640
Speaker 3: been very lucky to have very good editors, and editors

888
00:50:34,680 --> 00:50:36,839
Speaker 3: generally are trying to protect you from yourself, and they

889
00:50:36,840 --> 00:50:38,959
Speaker 3: can see things that you can't see because you're too

890
00:50:39,000 --> 00:50:43,799
Speaker 3: close to the work. So I really really believe in

891
00:50:43,840 --> 00:50:48,560
Speaker 3: the importance of listening to editors. But and this is

892
00:50:48,920 --> 00:50:51,440
Speaker 3: I have my own imprint at Grove Atlantic, and this

893
00:50:51,520 --> 00:50:54,040
Speaker 3: is what I tell my authors. I already have my

894
00:50:54,080 --> 00:50:57,920
Speaker 3: own books, so I have some ideas about what your

895
00:50:57,960 --> 00:51:02,319
Speaker 3: book could be, but it's your book, and so you

896
00:51:02,360 --> 00:51:07,120
Speaker 3: want to stick to your guns. Also, if it is

897
00:51:07,280 --> 00:51:10,880
Speaker 3: at all possible, and it isn't for most people, myself

898
00:51:10,920 --> 00:51:17,279
Speaker 3: included most of the time hire an independent publicist. I

899
00:51:18,680 --> 00:51:26,040
Speaker 3: did to support your efforts because excuse me, it's hard

900
00:51:26,040 --> 00:51:29,600
Speaker 3: to sell them. It's just really hard to sell books,

901
00:51:29,719 --> 00:51:32,279
Speaker 3: very hard to sell books, and so you need all

902
00:51:32,320 --> 00:51:33,880
Speaker 3: the help making it look very hard.

903
00:51:34,080 --> 00:51:37,120
Speaker 1: But I believe it kind of no one.

904
00:51:37,360 --> 00:51:41,600
Speaker 2: I absolutely agree that that it wasn't a big fight.

905
00:51:41,480 --> 00:51:44,279
Speaker 2: My editor was not black, and certainly there were certain

906
00:51:44,320 --> 00:51:46,360
Speaker 2: things that you know, it was a lot of great feedback,

907
00:51:46,360 --> 00:51:48,279
Speaker 2: but there's sometain things that I'm like, I hear what

908
00:51:48,280 --> 00:51:52,120
Speaker 2: you're saying. But that's one thing I do know is

909
00:51:52,120 --> 00:51:56,040
Speaker 2: the audience that I'm trying to reach, and so I

910
00:51:56,080 --> 00:51:59,000
Speaker 2: was determined that the book was going to sound like

911
00:51:59,000 --> 00:52:01,879
Speaker 2: me feel like because I thought myself, one day, I'm

912
00:52:01,920 --> 00:52:04,680
Speaker 2: going to be walking in Barnes and Nobles. I want

913
00:52:04,760 --> 00:52:06,799
Speaker 2: to be happy with the book that I'm pulling off

914
00:52:06,840 --> 00:52:10,320
Speaker 2: the shelf, regardless of what happens. You know, that fail

915
00:52:10,600 --> 00:52:13,360
Speaker 2: or succeed. I want it to be because of at

916
00:52:13,440 --> 00:52:16,239
Speaker 2: least it's something that I wanted to do. And so yes,

917
00:52:16,440 --> 00:52:18,560
Speaker 2: fighting back when it needed to, but being open to

918
00:52:18,600 --> 00:52:20,440
Speaker 2: receive feedback because there are certainly things I'm like, oh,

919
00:52:20,480 --> 00:52:22,280
Speaker 2: you're right, and other things where I'm like, you're absolutely

920
00:52:22,360 --> 00:52:26,000
Speaker 2: wrong on this, and the marketing component that actually was

921
00:52:26,040 --> 00:52:30,080
Speaker 2: the bigger battle because their book publishers not booksellers, if

922
00:52:30,080 --> 00:52:32,600
Speaker 2: I'm being all the way candid. And so I had

923
00:52:32,600 --> 00:52:35,640
Speaker 2: an independent publicist and even they fought me on some

924
00:52:35,719 --> 00:52:37,879
Speaker 2: of the marketing components stuff, and I was like, well,

925
00:52:38,160 --> 00:52:40,080
Speaker 2: I'm here now, like I own my own business. I

926
00:52:40,080 --> 00:52:42,120
Speaker 2: know a market do whatever you're going to do, but

927
00:52:42,160 --> 00:52:45,680
Speaker 2: it's actually not working now. Like I'm like the playbook,

928
00:52:45,680 --> 00:52:47,600
Speaker 2: they're like, Tiffany, can you talk to this new No

929
00:52:48,280 --> 00:52:51,080
Speaker 2: I thought y'all said I was wrong, you know. And

930
00:52:51,120 --> 00:52:53,280
Speaker 2: so they use some of the things that I, oh.

931
00:52:53,120 --> 00:52:55,440
Speaker 1: They want you to coach their budding authors.

932
00:52:55,160 --> 00:52:57,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, which I'm like, no, I mean I give like

933
00:52:57,440 --> 00:52:59,879
Speaker 2: I have. What I did was I have a bunch

934
00:52:59,880 --> 00:53:03,040
Speaker 2: of mentees and I recorded this video and created notes,

935
00:53:03,040 --> 00:53:05,239
Speaker 2: so I just share that freely, but I'm not going

936
00:53:05,280 --> 00:53:07,400
Speaker 2: to I don't have time for one on ones, you know.

937
00:53:07,480 --> 00:53:09,719
Speaker 2: But yeah, at one point it just got to be

938
00:53:09,800 --> 00:53:12,880
Speaker 2: really bad where it was just like, you know, everything

939
00:53:12,880 --> 00:53:14,279
Speaker 2: with everything I wanted to do was like and it

940
00:53:14,280 --> 00:53:16,799
Speaker 2: doesn't work. And I'm like well, three hundred thousand boks later,

941
00:53:17,000 --> 00:53:19,919
Speaker 2: you're welcome. I'm now of course they're my besties. And

942
00:53:19,960 --> 00:53:22,319
Speaker 2: the next harassment is when's the next one? I'm like,

943
00:53:22,360 --> 00:53:23,239
Speaker 2: you tell me you write it?

944
00:53:23,840 --> 00:53:27,120
Speaker 3: Right, like, when when is the next one? What's up?

945
00:53:27,640 --> 00:53:30,880
Speaker 2: I know? But so I mean one day maybe. But

946
00:53:31,480 --> 00:53:34,040
Speaker 2: even with that, that, to me, I do not consider

947
00:53:34,080 --> 00:53:37,200
Speaker 2: myself a writer. I consider myself an educator. So rox side,

948
00:53:37,239 --> 00:53:40,240
Speaker 2: I was a school teacher before I started my financial business,

949
00:53:40,600 --> 00:53:43,880
Speaker 2: and so I told them when I have something to teach,

950
00:53:44,480 --> 00:53:46,560
Speaker 2: and if that's the medium that I want to use.

951
00:53:46,680 --> 00:53:49,720
Speaker 2: But I you know, I'm not I'm not someone who

952
00:53:49,880 --> 00:53:52,120
Speaker 2: just writes. I mean, I kept the journal my whole life.

953
00:53:52,160 --> 00:53:55,400
Speaker 2: But for me, that book was like an extension of

954
00:53:55,440 --> 00:53:58,640
Speaker 2: a curriculum or a lesson planned kind of you know.

955
00:53:58,800 --> 00:54:01,160
Speaker 2: And so you know, they don't understand that because they

956
00:54:01,160 --> 00:54:01,440
Speaker 2: were like.

957
00:54:01,360 --> 00:54:02,359
Speaker 3: Well, we'll just pay you money.

958
00:54:02,360 --> 00:54:04,759
Speaker 2: I'm like, yeah, but that's actually not moving me. Well,

959
00:54:04,840 --> 00:54:06,920
Speaker 2: right is if I have a new lesson that I'm

960
00:54:06,960 --> 00:54:10,399
Speaker 2: like this, the student must get this. So yeah, so man,

961
00:54:10,440 --> 00:54:10,879
Speaker 2: it just.

962
00:54:10,800 --> 00:54:13,040
Speaker 1: Like that's why we love you, you know, just.

963
00:54:13,040 --> 00:54:14,560
Speaker 2: I would just say, yeah, write the book you want

964
00:54:14,600 --> 00:54:16,680
Speaker 2: to write. Expect that you're going to do have to

965
00:54:16,680 --> 00:54:19,040
Speaker 2: do ninety percent of your own marketing, and it's actually

966
00:54:19,080 --> 00:54:20,640
Speaker 2: harder than writing the books. So bookle up.

967
00:54:20,719 --> 00:54:22,280
Speaker 1: Got my own podcasts that helps?

968
00:54:22,440 --> 00:54:26,279
Speaker 2: Yeah, no, it does. And like I don't know, Like.

969
00:54:26,440 --> 00:54:28,480
Speaker 3: I'm gonna tell you what podcast rock Sanne. I used

970
00:54:28,480 --> 00:54:31,359
Speaker 3: to love it my podcast, so I did. It was

971
00:54:31,400 --> 00:54:35,040
Speaker 3: a company that was a startup and they decided to

972
00:54:35,080 --> 00:54:40,160
Speaker 3: create a walled garden for their podcasts, and they did

973
00:54:40,200 --> 00:54:42,560
Speaker 3: so so long after people were used to getting free

974
00:54:42,600 --> 00:54:46,799
Speaker 3: podcasts that I'm not quite sure it was going to work.

975
00:54:46,880 --> 00:54:50,160
Speaker 3: Then they eventually opened up the garden and so podcasts

976
00:54:50,160 --> 00:54:53,360
Speaker 3: would be exclusive for the first week and then it

977
00:54:53,400 --> 00:54:58,200
Speaker 3: would go out wide. And yeah, they were going to

978
00:54:58,200 --> 00:55:00,560
Speaker 3: renew the podcast, but I think they sort of just

979
00:55:00,640 --> 00:55:04,400
Speaker 3: ran out of money and had to sort of stick

980
00:55:04,440 --> 00:55:09,080
Speaker 3: with They're sort of what they felt was their centerpiece podcast.

981
00:55:09,600 --> 00:55:12,360
Speaker 3: So you know, these things happen. I'm gonna probably do

982
00:55:12,400 --> 00:55:17,359
Speaker 3: a podcast again at some point, but we'll see you when.

983
00:55:18,680 --> 00:55:21,440
Speaker 1: And yeah, I mean, I think writing is one thing,

984
00:55:21,480 --> 00:55:23,920
Speaker 1: but I don't know, not every writer is someone you

985
00:55:23,960 --> 00:55:25,920
Speaker 1: also want to like hear talk all day long, Like

986
00:55:26,040 --> 00:55:28,360
Speaker 1: I don't know, any year, I don't know, you always

987
00:55:28,360 --> 00:55:29,960
Speaker 1: give me something new to think about. And I do

988
00:55:30,040 --> 00:55:33,839
Speaker 1: have to thank you because I read what is his name?

989
00:55:33,920 --> 00:55:39,359
Speaker 1: Crosby Razor Blade Tears. I believe you talked about cos Cosby, Yes,

990
00:55:40,360 --> 00:55:42,759
Speaker 1: and I started reading his novels because I heard them

991
00:55:42,800 --> 00:55:43,279
Speaker 1: on your show.

992
00:55:43,800 --> 00:55:47,160
Speaker 3: I mean, that man can write his ass off. Why

993
00:55:47,200 --> 00:55:49,399
Speaker 3: is nice?

994
00:55:49,600 --> 00:55:51,919
Speaker 1: In your head? Do you picture who the celebrity who

995
00:55:51,960 --> 00:55:54,560
Speaker 1: like the actor would be to play them? Because other

996
00:55:54,600 --> 00:55:57,120
Speaker 1: than Addris Elba, like, who are you picturing in that role?

997
00:55:57,360 --> 00:55:59,520
Speaker 3: I'm gonna have to think about it because I'm thinking tall,

998
00:55:59,600 --> 00:56:03,280
Speaker 3: dark and handsome, which there are many, there are many,

999
00:56:03,880 --> 00:56:05,520
Speaker 3: but like he has to have a certain demeanor.

1000
00:56:05,680 --> 00:56:07,279
Speaker 1: That's fine, We'll have something else to talk about when

1001
00:56:07,320 --> 00:56:07,480
Speaker 1: you know.

1002
00:56:08,280 --> 00:56:10,399
Speaker 3: Time, I'll just be like, guess what, I finally cast

1003
00:56:10,440 --> 00:56:10,920
Speaker 3: that role for you?

1004
00:56:13,280 --> 00:56:13,600
Speaker 2: Thanks?

1005
00:56:13,880 --> 00:56:17,080
Speaker 1: But yeah, excellent author TIF if you have an essay, Crosby.

1006
00:56:16,840 --> 00:56:18,719
Speaker 2: No, thank you so much for coming on our show.

1007
00:56:18,719 --> 00:56:20,279
Speaker 3: Of course, thank you so much for having me.

1008
00:56:20,320 --> 00:56:25,000
Speaker 2: Thanks for saying thank you. Wow wow wow wow wow.

1009
00:56:25,760 --> 00:56:27,120
Speaker 1: Now you guys see why I'm crying.

1010
00:56:27,480 --> 00:56:31,080
Speaker 2: It was just so genuine and kind, which that's where

1011
00:56:31,080 --> 00:56:35,200
Speaker 2: we hope that you took away that what I really

1012
00:56:35,239 --> 00:56:37,759
Speaker 2: love most about that interview is that you got to

1013
00:56:37,800 --> 00:56:40,720
Speaker 2: see that I think we live in a world everything

1014
00:56:40,760 --> 00:56:42,640
Speaker 2: is so black and white and waksan and gay lives

1015
00:56:42,640 --> 00:56:45,400
Speaker 2: in the gray. Yes, that's what you know.

1016
00:56:45,600 --> 00:56:47,600
Speaker 1: That's a very eloquent way of saying what I was

1017
00:56:47,719 --> 00:56:48,600
Speaker 1: trying to say.

1018
00:56:48,760 --> 00:56:51,719
Speaker 2: And it just feels like okay, because the truth and

1019
00:56:51,800 --> 00:56:54,160
Speaker 2: that we're all in the gray. It's supposed to judge

1020
00:56:54,160 --> 00:56:57,680
Speaker 2: yourself for not being black and white and ever no,

1021
00:56:57,880 --> 00:57:01,080
Speaker 2: She's just like, no, we're human. Doctor Green would say,

1022
00:57:01,080 --> 00:57:03,960
Speaker 2: so we're gonna punish ourselves for being human whenever, Like

1023
00:57:04,000 --> 00:57:06,319
Speaker 2: I have like some sort of back and forth with

1024
00:57:06,360 --> 00:57:08,520
Speaker 2: myself and I'm not really sure. And she's like, so

1025
00:57:08,600 --> 00:57:11,880
Speaker 2: you're human, and so I think this interview just helped

1026
00:57:11,880 --> 00:57:15,640
Speaker 2: to illustrate that you're not alone in your humanness. And

1027
00:57:15,680 --> 00:57:17,760
Speaker 2: so it just was beautiful. Mandy, what do you think?

1028
00:57:19,080 --> 00:57:23,600
Speaker 1: I think they say never meet your heroes, And I'm

1029
00:57:23,640 --> 00:57:27,480
Speaker 1: really happy that I got to prove that wrong.

1030
00:57:28,200 --> 00:57:31,400
Speaker 2: The line that could determine that's a lie, a lie

1031
00:57:31,880 --> 00:57:32,880
Speaker 2: at least if.

1032
00:57:32,760 --> 00:57:34,600
Speaker 1: You're going to meet them, meet them on brown ambition.

1033
00:57:34,720 --> 00:57:37,360
Speaker 1: So Tiffany can help carry the conversation while you are

1034
00:57:37,600 --> 00:57:39,440
Speaker 1: no internally losing it.

1035
00:57:39,680 --> 00:57:42,960
Speaker 2: I feel we should call it Meet your Heroes. It's okay,

1036
00:57:44,560 --> 00:57:44,800
Speaker 2: I don't.

1037
00:57:45,280 --> 00:57:48,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, thank y'all for listening, and I hope that we

1038
00:57:48,960 --> 00:57:51,040
Speaker 1: did a good job. I don't remember. I'll have to

1039
00:57:51,080 --> 00:57:54,720
Speaker 1: listen to it back. I do remember Tiffany trying to

1040
00:57:54,720 --> 00:57:58,320
Speaker 1: wrap it up halfway through, no, because I just I would.

1041
00:57:58,120 --> 00:57:59,680
Speaker 2: Look at the time, like, what's our timeframe?

1042
00:58:00,240 --> 00:58:03,560
Speaker 1: Oh gosh, I said, now she's gonna block my bosson No.

1043
00:58:03,680 --> 00:58:05,680
Speaker 3: I'm I just I'm sorry.

1044
00:58:05,920 --> 00:58:08,400
Speaker 2: Yeah. I was like, are we supposed to stop it too?

1045
00:58:08,440 --> 00:58:11,600
Speaker 2: I was just sure, so now that was I'm glad

1046
00:58:11,600 --> 00:58:13,320
Speaker 2: that that did not work. Mandy was like, girl, I

1047
00:58:13,320 --> 00:58:15,280
Speaker 2: don't know if she talked about anyway, which I.

1048
00:58:15,200 --> 00:58:19,120
Speaker 1: Love anyway, so I have more question.

1049
00:58:19,360 --> 00:58:23,280
Speaker 2: Yes, please share this episode if you enjoy it, do go.

1050
00:58:23,200 --> 00:58:25,320
Speaker 1: Get Rock Sanness books and tell her ba fam that

1051
00:58:25,360 --> 00:58:28,880
Speaker 1: we sent you if you don't already have them, her

1052
00:58:28,920 --> 00:58:32,680
Speaker 1: audiobook for Hunger, get her original Bad Feminists which put

1053
00:58:32,680 --> 00:58:35,280
Speaker 1: her on the map. Just get them. Okay. She has

1054
00:58:35,320 --> 00:58:36,960
Speaker 1: a lot of stuff on the internet that you can consume,

1055
00:58:37,000 --> 00:58:39,440
Speaker 1: a podcast, essays, stuff you can read for free, but

1056
00:58:39,520 --> 00:58:44,560
Speaker 1: go buy the woman's books. Because the blood, sweat, tears, agony,

1057
00:58:44,640 --> 00:58:48,480
Speaker 1: the pain, the passion, all of it. Oh God, it's

1058
00:58:48,520 --> 00:58:51,520
Speaker 1: so good. It's so good. And we got to support

1059
00:58:51,520 --> 00:58:52,320
Speaker 1: our living legends.

1060
00:58:52,400 --> 00:58:54,320
Speaker 3: Is how I feel Living Legends? Yes?

1061
00:58:54,400 --> 00:58:57,280
Speaker 2: Yes, And if you please, we always asked for you

1062
00:58:57,320 --> 00:58:58,880
Speaker 2: to go ahead and leave a review wherever you listen

1063
00:58:58,920 --> 00:59:02,400
Speaker 2: to podcasts, especially Apple podcast reviews on how we get seen,

1064
00:59:02,480 --> 00:59:04,840
Speaker 2: heard and shared, and we can continue the good work

1065
00:59:04,840 --> 00:59:07,480
Speaker 2: and have more amazing people like rock Sayanne on all

1066
00:59:07,560 --> 00:59:10,760
Speaker 2: right b a fan, We love you, chating to love you.

1067
00:59:10,960 --> 00:59:14,640
Speaker 1: Bye,