WEBVTT - One Eyed Wolf 0:00:00.400 --> 0:00:03.920 The cheerleaders at a gym in Buffalo have been recording 0:00:03.960 --> 0:00:09.240 themselves to make a new documentary where the news reporters 0:00:09.240 --> 0:00:13.160 because one year ago a mass shooting changed their lives. 0:00:13.200 --> 0:00:15.400 He just walked around shot all the black people. The 0:00:15.480 --> 0:00:18.440 cheer squad, most of whom are black, had to figure 0:00:18.480 --> 0:00:21.160 out how to go on and how to compete. I 0:00:21.280 --> 0:00:23.840 wanted to win for them more than anything this season. 0:00:24.000 --> 0:00:28.640 Listen to the embedded podcast from NPR within the iHeartRadio app, 0:00:28.800 --> 0:00:32.720 or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Carol Fisher and 0:00:32.760 --> 0:00:36.800 I'm hosting a podcast called The Girlfriends. It's Las Vegas, 0:00:36.960 --> 0:00:40.200 it's the nineteen nineties, and it is time to find 0:00:40.240 --> 0:00:44.560 a husband. There were four Jewish doctors who were felt 0:00:44.600 --> 0:00:48.040 to be eligible bachelors. One of them was of the 0:00:48.640 --> 0:00:53.239 Baron bat On paper he was perfect, but in reality, 0:00:53.440 --> 0:00:58.080 this guy's a wacko. He shouted to the point went unconscious. 0:00:58.280 --> 0:01:00.560 I would call him and I would say, I know 0:01:00.600 --> 0:01:03.040 you killed my sister. You can listen to The girl 0:01:03.160 --> 0:01:07.440 Friends on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you 0:01:07.480 --> 0:01:11.240 get your podcasts. Hi, it's Elvis Duran on my new 0:01:11.280 --> 0:01:14.600 podcast Thinking out Loud with Elvis Duran. I'll be bringing 0:01:14.640 --> 0:01:17.160 you candid and maybe sometimes a little crazy interviews with 0:01:17.319 --> 0:01:20.039 people from all walks of life. We'll touch on subjects 0:01:20.040 --> 0:01:23.919 that you just can't talk about on the radio, like life, love, success, failure, 0:01:23.959 --> 0:01:26.319 or whatever else comes to mind. But all jacked up 0:01:26.600 --> 0:01:28.520 because after being in this business for as long as 0:01:28.520 --> 0:01:30.200 I have, I want to get to the bottom of 0:01:30.240 --> 0:01:32.960 what makes people tick. And listen to my new podcast, 0:01:33.240 --> 0:01:37.600 Thinking out Loud on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or 0:01:37.600 --> 0:01:41.720 wherever you get your podcasts. They are more identity threats 0:01:41.720 --> 0:01:44.679 than you realize. Even if you monitor your credit, only 0:01:44.720 --> 0:01:47.520 a little personal info needs to leak out, like your 0:01:47.560 --> 0:01:51.120 social Security number or password, or are you did any 0:01:51.160 --> 0:01:54.680 kind of a victimis LifeLock alerts you to threats you 0:01:54.680 --> 0:01:57.800 could miss. If your identity is stolen, a dedicated US 0:01:57.880 --> 0:02:01.200 based restoration specialist will work to sense. No one can 0:02:01.240 --> 0:02:04.760 prevent all identity theft or monitor all transactions, but everyone 0:02:04.800 --> 0:02:06.760 can save up to twenty five percent off their first 0:02:06.840 --> 0:02:13.400 year Go to LifeLock dot com slash aware. George was 0:02:13.400 --> 0:02:15.640 pretty much my brother. I mean, if I was ever 0:02:15.720 --> 0:02:17.560 going to have anybody I considered brother, it would have 0:02:17.560 --> 0:02:21.079 been him. How would you describe him? Hard working, down 0:02:21.120 --> 0:02:24.040 to hers boy, do anything in the world for anybody. 0:02:25.320 --> 0:02:28.359 If I was broke down three states over at two 0:02:28.360 --> 0:02:30.720 o'clock in the morning, I could call him. He's about 0:02:30.720 --> 0:02:33.600 the only one that I miss is George Trump. I'm sorry. 0:02:34.400 --> 0:02:37.280 So how did George get wrapped up into this? Oh? Well, 0:02:38.280 --> 0:02:41.160 since they was young, they always beating into his head 0:02:41.200 --> 0:02:43.000 that he always had to take care of his little brother, 0:02:43.520 --> 0:02:45.840 no matter what. Can let nobody heard his little brother 0:02:46.680 --> 0:02:48.959 always had to take his little brother's side, no matter what. 0:02:49.320 --> 0:02:50.959 And I think I'd had something to do with it. 0:02:56.800 --> 0:03:01.760 This is the Peketon Massacre. Returned to Pake County season three, 0:03:01.840 --> 0:03:08.640 episode five, One Eyed Wolf. I'm Courtney Armstrong, a television 0:03:08.639 --> 0:03:12.520 producer at Katie Studios with Stephanie Leidiger and Jeff Shane. 0:03:13.080 --> 0:03:15.840 George Wagner is awaiting trial in Pike County for his 0:03:15.919 --> 0:03:19.520 involvement in the murders of the Roden family. He's pleaded 0:03:19.680 --> 0:03:24.320 not guilty. After two seasons of reporting, details of what 0:03:24.360 --> 0:03:26.959 allegedly went down on the night of April twenty first, 0:03:27.000 --> 0:03:31.120 twenty sixteen have slowly come into focus, but we still 0:03:31.160 --> 0:03:33.520 know little about the eldest son of the Wagner clan, 0:03:33.800 --> 0:03:37.280 George Wagner. In this episode, we talked to the people 0:03:37.280 --> 0:03:40.160 who knew George the best and delve into why many 0:03:40.200 --> 0:03:43.760 are still trying to comprehend his potential involvement in the 0:03:43.760 --> 0:03:49.280 Pike of Nassacre. In May of twenty seventeen, thirteen months 0:03:49.320 --> 0:03:52.160 after the murders, investigators sent a SWAT team to the 0:03:52.200 --> 0:03:56.080 Wagner's property to search for evidence. Around that time, George 0:03:56.160 --> 0:03:59.840 changed his social media profile picture and an online group 0:04:00.000 --> 0:04:03.320 picked it up immediately screen shot at it and posted 0:04:03.320 --> 0:04:08.640 it here's an anonymous Wagner and Roden family source. It's crazy. 0:04:08.760 --> 0:04:10.800 I don't know what all is out and what's not out. 0:04:10.840 --> 0:04:13.760 But when all this went down, he had posted what 0:04:13.960 --> 0:04:16.240 is it called your profile picture of a wolf that 0:04:16.320 --> 0:04:21.159 had a chart in one eye. And if you get 0:04:21.160 --> 0:04:23.120 on there and read that Angela is on there and 0:04:23.240 --> 0:04:25.520 tell him he needs to delete it, you know you 0:04:25.520 --> 0:04:28.960 shouldn't be doing that. And then everybody in this group 0:04:29.000 --> 0:04:31.920 that I'm in was like, oh, that's like pointing to 0:04:32.000 --> 0:04:37.839 him having shot Kenny, and Angela commented on it, really 0:04:37.960 --> 0:04:40.520 quessed you marked. Everybody in his faith book group was like, oh, 0:04:40.520 --> 0:04:44.159 my gosh, he's the one who shot Kenny. Kenneth Roden, 0:04:44.480 --> 0:04:47.760 brother of patriarch Chris Roden Senior, was the eighth and 0:04:47.839 --> 0:04:51.400 final victim to be discovered. This was five hours after 0:04:51.520 --> 0:04:54.560 Bobby Joe Manley discovered the first bodies and called nine 0:04:54.640 --> 0:05:00.320 one one, I need it. He's been about to most 0:05:00.320 --> 0:05:04.080 of seven, nine and nine. Okay. This is family member 0:05:04.160 --> 0:05:08.120 Donald Stone calling from Kenneth's home, seven miles away from 0:05:08.160 --> 0:05:11.120 the other crime scenes. It's all this stuff. It's going 0:05:11.200 --> 0:05:15.120 to news. I just found to just found Martasins was 0:05:15.160 --> 0:05:18.680 again shot was and I don't know what his address is. Harney. 0:05:18.760 --> 0:05:21.440 Out of the house. I'm out of the house right now. 0:05:21.560 --> 0:05:26.720 Is just winning horror nighting Stone found Kenneth lying in 0:05:26.800 --> 0:05:30.239 his bed, face up, covered in blood. He had dollar 0:05:30.279 --> 0:05:34.240 bills strewn over the lower half of his body. He 0:05:34.320 --> 0:05:37.080 was the only victim killed with a single gunshot wound 0:05:37.080 --> 0:05:41.159 to the head, specifically through his right eye. This is 0:05:41.200 --> 0:05:43.919 like the picture of the wolf and George's profile that 0:05:44.000 --> 0:05:49.760 piqued people's interest online. Here's Stephanie and Jeff. It came 0:05:49.760 --> 0:05:53.560 to our attention that in October of twenty eighteen, about 0:05:53.600 --> 0:05:57.640 a month before the Wagners were arrested. George Wagner changed 0:05:57.720 --> 0:06:02.000 his profile picture to a cartoon wolf that has a 0:06:02.080 --> 0:06:06.000 scar over its right eye, and on that picture, his mother, 0:06:06.040 --> 0:06:10.320 Angela Wagner commented, really, we can only assume this picture 0:06:11.040 --> 0:06:14.760 represents Kenneth Roden, who was shot in the right eye, 0:06:15.120 --> 0:06:19.159 and that George Wagner was somehow bragging or making a 0:06:19.240 --> 0:06:27.400 callback to the way Kenneth Roden was murdered. We do 0:06:27.560 --> 0:06:31.920 also know that Kenneth Roden was really the only victim 0:06:31.960 --> 0:06:36.280 who was shot just once in their right eye, and 0:06:36.880 --> 0:06:40.400 the significance of that might be tied to this photo. 0:06:40.680 --> 0:06:43.080 It feels like a stretch a little bit, to be honest. 0:06:44.760 --> 0:06:49.559 So he posted this on October fourth, twenty eighteen, and 0:06:49.960 --> 0:06:52.960 a few weeks prior to that, on September nineteenth, twenty eighteen, 0:06:53.080 --> 0:06:56.080 is when the autopsy notes were released and everyone found 0:06:56.080 --> 0:07:00.080 out that Kenneth was shot in the right eye. And 0:07:00.080 --> 0:07:02.279 so it seems like a bit of a coincidence that 0:07:02.640 --> 0:07:04.719 we as the public, find out that Kenneth throw it 0:07:04.720 --> 0:07:07.800 in a shot in the right eye, and then George 0:07:07.800 --> 0:07:10.640 Wagner posts this photo of a wolf with a scar 0:07:10.760 --> 0:07:15.800 over its right eye, and that maybe wouldn't be connective. 0:07:15.840 --> 0:07:19.200 But then if it wasn't, why would Angela make that comment? 0:07:19.560 --> 0:07:21.200 Because if it's just a picture of a wolf, like, 0:07:21.280 --> 0:07:23.760 what does his mom care what he posts on Facebook? 0:07:23.800 --> 0:07:27.240 And it doesn't have this kind of deeper meaning. So 0:07:27.320 --> 0:07:31.080 much has been made about this online and in various 0:07:31.120 --> 0:07:35.800 different Facebook groups. It could really just be a complete coincidence. 0:07:36.440 --> 0:07:39.120 It could, but we can only assume what the Wagners did. 0:07:39.520 --> 0:07:41.800 I think it's fair to scrutinize all of their behavior 0:07:42.440 --> 0:07:46.000 prior to the arrests and following the murders. What would 0:07:46.000 --> 0:07:50.080 be the significance of that. Either he's bragging or is 0:07:50.120 --> 0:07:53.480 he giving a signal to someone else? What is the 0:07:53.720 --> 0:07:56.840 connective tissue there? The way I read into it is 0:07:56.880 --> 0:08:02.680 that he's bragging about the murders. Why would he do that? 0:08:03.440 --> 0:08:06.160 We do know they get arrested one month later. Many 0:08:06.200 --> 0:08:10.120 people in the area were saying that the Wagoners were 0:08:10.200 --> 0:08:14.720 expecting to be arrested at any moment, And it really 0:08:14.760 --> 0:08:17.520 does make you wonder why they were so busy on 0:08:17.560 --> 0:08:21.120 social media in the first place. If you feared that 0:08:21.200 --> 0:08:23.520 you were going to be arrested, why would you possibly 0:08:23.520 --> 0:08:32.600 go on social media? Period? The way it was presented 0:08:32.679 --> 0:08:34.520 to me was that it was more of a matter 0:08:34.520 --> 0:08:37.520 of fact that the police think we're tied up in this, 0:08:37.760 --> 0:08:40.319 we're going to get arrested, but we're going to get 0:08:40.320 --> 0:08:43.319 out because we're innocent. It's just a formality. And so 0:08:43.480 --> 0:08:45.400 the way I think, at least they were portraying themselves 0:08:45.440 --> 0:08:48.520 to their friends and family was that they were very 0:08:48.600 --> 0:08:51.440 confident about their innocence and all of this, and that 0:08:51.520 --> 0:09:01.000 they would not be roped into it too much. Jake 0:09:01.559 --> 0:09:03.880 was the one that literally said he shot five people 0:09:04.040 --> 0:09:08.240 or killed five people and shot six and I don't know. 0:09:08.400 --> 0:09:11.160 I mean, who was the other person? Well, if anything, 0:09:11.240 --> 0:09:13.480 I think Billy, you know, would been the crazy one 0:09:13.480 --> 0:09:16.360 to do something, because Billy has always come up with 0:09:16.400 --> 0:09:20.480 these crazy schemes. Billy I would not put past to 0:09:20.520 --> 0:09:23.000 do anything. I feel like he would be at a 0:09:23.000 --> 0:09:26.920 gas station and shoot somebody. I probably George would throw 0:09:27.000 --> 0:09:31.360 up if he shot somebody, But I don't know, I don't, 0:09:31.520 --> 0:09:36.240 I don't know. Last season, it seems like the only 0:09:36.240 --> 0:09:38.680 thing we heard about George Wagner was that he was 0:09:38.920 --> 0:09:41.840 an abusive husband and all around a pretty bad guy. 0:09:42.640 --> 0:09:47.360 But as the court proceedings have kind of continued, We've 0:09:47.480 --> 0:09:49.600 talked to more and more people who were close with 0:09:49.600 --> 0:09:51.600 George Wagner and have kind of told us the opposite 0:09:51.640 --> 0:09:54.920 of what we've always heard. Everyone we've spoken to as 0:09:54.960 --> 0:09:57.800 of late has said nothing but nice things about him, 0:09:57.960 --> 0:10:00.199 basically that he was this great guy and they are 0:10:00.240 --> 0:10:03.840 shocked that he was involved in this murder. No one 0:10:03.880 --> 0:10:06.880 seems to have a hard time imagining that Billy, Jake, 0:10:07.000 --> 0:10:10.800 or even Angela could have planned murdered uncovered up this crime. 0:10:11.280 --> 0:10:13.800 But people have a really hard time wrapping their head 0:10:13.840 --> 0:10:19.680 around George Wagner being involved, which is surprising to me 0:10:19.800 --> 0:10:23.679 because we did hear about how terribly he treated his 0:10:23.760 --> 0:10:27.840 wife when they all lived with his mother, Angela Wagner, 0:10:27.880 --> 0:10:32.040 and the whole accused family mistreated her. This season, yeah, 0:10:32.080 --> 0:10:35.120 we've heard quite the opposite. All we really have so 0:10:35.160 --> 0:10:37.800 far is Jake's plea deal, where he has testified that 0:10:37.920 --> 0:10:41.640 George was only their last minute and really was only 0:10:41.679 --> 0:10:45.560 there to protect Jake from their father, which you know, 0:10:45.600 --> 0:10:48.840 we're still trying to unpack what that actually means. So 0:10:48.920 --> 0:10:52.160 let's play that out really quickly. Just this scenario as 0:10:52.200 --> 0:10:55.160 we maybe know it right now. According to all of 0:10:55.160 --> 0:10:59.680 these plea agreements. Jake, who has admitted to five killings, 0:11:01.080 --> 0:11:05.040 and Dad Billy Wagner they were the ones that were 0:11:05.040 --> 0:11:07.360 going to go out and do all of the killing. 0:11:07.440 --> 0:11:10.480 So that's five that Jake was going to do or 0:11:10.559 --> 0:11:14.800 has admitted to, leaving the remaining three maybe done by Billy. 0:11:15.520 --> 0:11:19.079 Yet at the very last minute, George, the oldest brother, 0:11:19.559 --> 0:11:23.240 to protect his younger brother, decides to go along with them, 0:11:23.240 --> 0:11:25.439 even though he's been a part of the planning, he 0:11:25.480 --> 0:11:29.320 wasn't intending ongoing And now according to Angela Wagner, she 0:11:29.440 --> 0:11:35.400 stayed behind to babysit. So now George tags along. What 0:11:35.440 --> 0:11:38.760 does that mean? Is he equally responsible? Is he not 0:11:38.840 --> 0:11:42.040 responsible at all? He was a part of all the planning, 0:11:42.120 --> 0:11:45.040 so maybe he wasn't one of the trigger pullers. But 0:11:45.160 --> 0:11:49.720 it also speaks to the larger question of why would 0:11:49.760 --> 0:11:54.040 George Wagner think their father was going to kill or 0:11:54.120 --> 0:11:59.720 harm Jake Wagner. It's certainly a good question, and I 0:11:59.760 --> 0:12:02.679 won or if George's defense will bring that up, because 0:12:02.720 --> 0:12:05.000 I think in the eyes of the law, if you 0:12:05.040 --> 0:12:07.600 plan a murder and you're at the murder, you're pretty 0:12:07.640 --> 0:12:11.679 culpable in the crime. And so whether you're there to 0:12:11.840 --> 0:12:14.480 protect someone else or not. We'll see if that matters 0:12:14.520 --> 0:12:16.839 and how much that will play out in his upcoming trial. 0:12:17.640 --> 0:12:20.240 If we're just going to play along with this version 0:12:20.280 --> 0:12:23.640 of a tale, if George Wagner was just tagging along 0:12:23.679 --> 0:12:27.160 to protect Jake Wagner from their father, Billy Wagner, go 0:12:27.240 --> 0:12:29.760 with me here for one quick second, that would imply 0:12:30.040 --> 0:12:35.640 that Billy Wagner dad was allegedly going to kill or 0:12:35.760 --> 0:12:39.839 harm Jake Wagner. Why would he do that? Like, why 0:12:39.880 --> 0:12:43.840 would George have to protect Jake from their dad? And 0:12:43.880 --> 0:12:45.760 I guess the only thing that would sort of make 0:12:45.840 --> 0:12:49.760 sense is because maybe Billy Wagner was going to kill 0:12:50.440 --> 0:12:54.080 Jake Wagner just so there was nobody left to turn 0:12:54.120 --> 0:13:00.600 them in. Yeah, there would have been one US witness. 0:13:00.720 --> 0:13:02.880 And as we know the kind of how the dynamics 0:13:02.880 --> 0:13:06.240 of the family were, Jake and Angela Wagner were very close, 0:13:06.240 --> 0:13:09.120 and Billy and George Wagner were very close. So perhaps 0:13:09.160 --> 0:13:12.400 George felt that if he went he could maybe talk 0:13:12.440 --> 0:13:14.800 some sense for lack of a better term, into his 0:13:14.920 --> 0:13:20.079 dad and protect Jake at the same time. It's certainly complicated. 0:13:20.559 --> 0:13:23.760 It's important to note that both George and Billy Wagner 0:13:23.800 --> 0:13:26.040 have pleaded not guilty on all counts and have not 0:13:26.160 --> 0:13:28.559 yet had their day in court. So everything we're talking 0:13:28.559 --> 0:13:32.040 about is just Jake and Angela Wagner's version of events. 0:13:32.440 --> 0:13:35.680 Otherwise the prosecution would not allow their version of events 0:13:35.720 --> 0:13:39.920 to be, frankly, the foundation of their upcoming trials. Yeah, 0:13:40.000 --> 0:13:43.880 certainly the prosecution believes Jake and Angela's version of how 0:13:44.040 --> 0:13:48.120 things went down that night. But it's just important to 0:13:48.120 --> 0:13:55.160 note that Billy and George are disputing all this and 0:13:55.240 --> 0:13:57.480 it's not just us Steph who are trying to unpack this. 0:13:57.840 --> 0:14:00.800 The people who were close with the Wagner family are 0:14:00.880 --> 0:14:03.240 still kind of wrapping their head around all of this, 0:14:03.760 --> 0:14:07.080 particularly Chris Newcome, who as we know, is Angela Wagner's 0:14:07.080 --> 0:14:10.840 half brother, was very close with George and in talking 0:14:10.880 --> 0:14:13.960 to him numerous times, He's still really grappling with this 0:14:14.000 --> 0:14:16.839 whole situation and still trying to come to terms with 0:14:16.920 --> 0:14:20.000 George Wagner's possible involvement. And it's been six years since 0:14:20.000 --> 0:14:23.600 this whole thing happened. Chris was born when his older 0:14:23.640 --> 0:14:27.080 half sister, Angela was twenty. The age gap kept the 0:14:27.080 --> 0:14:30.040 two from growing close but Chris was drawn to her boys, 0:14:30.680 --> 0:14:33.880 specifically to George. I mean, help me and my nephews. 0:14:33.920 --> 0:14:35.760 We grew up more like brothers than we did huncle 0:14:35.800 --> 0:14:38.600 and nephews. I'm two and a half years older than Jake, 0:14:38.640 --> 0:14:40.760 in a year and a half older than George. I 0:14:40.800 --> 0:14:42.880 was always closer to George than I was with Jake. 0:14:43.320 --> 0:14:47.760 Man George, we'd always go hunting, fishing, camping. He always 0:14:47.800 --> 0:14:49.320 wanted to have his own hunting show. Do you know 0:14:49.440 --> 0:14:53.560 you wanted to go on TV Hunti's monster Deer and 0:14:53.640 --> 0:14:56.800 Perkey and Elk and stuff like it. I mean, he 0:14:56.840 --> 0:15:01.200 loved hunting that much, Sammy. I spoke with us earlier 0:15:01.200 --> 0:15:04.120 in the season about both the Rodin and Wagner families. 0:15:05.080 --> 0:15:08.440 She dated Frankie Rodin from seventh to ninth grade and 0:15:08.600 --> 0:15:12.000 was involved with Jake Wagner at times, but she also 0:15:12.040 --> 0:15:15.080 had a crush on George. I probably shouldn't say that, 0:15:15.200 --> 0:15:20.520 but Jake we pretty much stopped talking because I think 0:15:20.560 --> 0:15:23.240 Angela thought I was trying to get Jake to break 0:15:23.320 --> 0:15:26.120 up with Hannah, and that's not what it was. Because 0:15:26.240 --> 0:15:30.120 I didn't want Jake. I wanted George. What did you 0:15:30.160 --> 0:15:36.000 like about George? Just his goofiness. Honestly, George, he's a 0:15:36.000 --> 0:15:38.880 big teddy bear. Really. I remember a time I got 0:15:38.880 --> 0:15:40.760 a hold of George and I told him. I was like, 0:15:40.920 --> 0:15:42.920 I can't afford Christmas. I don't know what to do, 0:15:43.160 --> 0:15:45.400 and he goes meet me at the gas station. He 0:15:45.520 --> 0:15:47.840 gave me money to pay my electric bill and bought 0:15:47.880 --> 0:15:52.080 my daughter present. Wow, so he was like your Santa Claus. Yeah. 0:15:52.360 --> 0:15:54.120 Like it broke my heart when I found out he 0:15:54.200 --> 0:15:57.480 was married the first time. And did you ever confess 0:15:57.560 --> 0:16:02.840 to George that you kind of liked Nope, Now I 0:16:02.840 --> 0:16:07.320 don't never know. He was just a nice guy, good 0:16:07.320 --> 0:16:09.720 to be around, you know, didn't really talk too much, 0:16:10.320 --> 0:16:13.440 but he was definitely a nice person. Howard grew up 0:16:13.440 --> 0:16:15.880 with the Wagners and lived near them in both Ohio 0:16:16.040 --> 0:16:19.280 and Alaska. I just remember my sister. I'll keep her 0:16:19.320 --> 0:16:20.480 name out of him, but she kind of had a 0:16:20.480 --> 0:16:23.640 crush on George and she would always talking to him 0:16:23.640 --> 0:16:26.680 on Facebook and things like that. It's very funny because 0:16:26.840 --> 0:16:29.560 you're the second person today who has made mention of 0:16:29.840 --> 0:16:33.400 a family member, specifically his sister, who kind of loved 0:16:33.560 --> 0:16:37.240 George from a distance, and still have the nicest, kindest 0:16:37.280 --> 0:16:39.600 things to say of him. If I had a daughter 0:16:39.600 --> 0:16:41.480 and he were hurried, That's who I would want my 0:16:41.560 --> 0:16:43.880 daughter nating. He was just a great guy. He was 0:16:43.960 --> 0:16:46.080 super nice, like very friendly. Jake called the other hair 0:16:46.200 --> 0:16:48.920 was kind of secluded, kind of recluse. But George was 0:16:48.960 --> 0:16:54.280 just nice, like all around a nice guy. We've been 0:16:54.320 --> 0:16:56.600 able to speak with a whole host of new family 0:16:56.640 --> 0:17:00.880 members and friends this season. Patricia, you may recall, is 0:17:00.880 --> 0:17:02.920 one of them. So I think God every day that 0:17:03.320 --> 0:17:06.520 Doabta was no longer with him. Patricia is the mother 0:17:06.560 --> 0:17:10.919 of George's ex wife, Tabitha. Tabitha was bullied into relinquishing 0:17:10.960 --> 0:17:14.520 control of her child with George by Angela Wagner. The 0:17:14.600 --> 0:17:18.280 situation was eerily similar to the custody battle between Hanname 0:17:18.400 --> 0:17:22.080 Rodin and Jake Wagner that was happening before the massacre. 0:17:25.720 --> 0:17:28.360 I think the only reason that save Tapsa from going 0:17:28.400 --> 0:17:30.960 through this same thing was the fact that she didn't 0:17:30.960 --> 0:17:34.920 fight for custody of honor. They had him already so 0:17:35.640 --> 0:17:37.760 caused him harm to Dabby with them done him any good. 0:17:39.119 --> 0:17:42.720 Patricia claims Angela pulled all the strings within the Wagner clan. 0:17:43.480 --> 0:17:45.760 I know the demeanor of Angelis. She tries to be 0:17:46.280 --> 0:17:49.400 the loving, cheering mother. But if you've seen the side 0:17:49.440 --> 0:17:52.440 of Angelis that I've seen, and the way she holds 0:17:52.440 --> 0:17:56.480 your demeanor around me, you could tell that she was 0:17:56.480 --> 0:18:01.879 all faked. Dabby wasn't afraid of George, Danna wasn't afraid 0:18:01.920 --> 0:18:07.080 of Jake. They were only afraid of Angela. Sammy Chose 0:18:07.080 --> 0:18:10.560 saw firsthand how Angela should just control over her sons. 0:18:11.119 --> 0:18:15.600 She was just really intimidating normally growing up, I was 0:18:15.640 --> 0:18:20.439 always with Jake, and then as I got older, the 0:18:20.560 --> 0:18:25.000 contact changed from Jake to George because Jake became a 0:18:26.040 --> 0:18:29.560 stuck up I'm trying to think of nice, not so 0:18:29.880 --> 0:18:37.520 hateful words, but he became Angela. Angela took over Tabitha's 0:18:37.560 --> 0:18:41.160 life as well. For two years she lived with them 0:18:41.200 --> 0:18:43.320 and was not allowed to have any contacted with me 0:18:43.440 --> 0:18:47.480 once whoever, because Angela didn't want her to. They even 0:18:47.480 --> 0:18:49.480 went as far as they conduct the cell phone from 0:18:49.480 --> 0:18:53.640 her because she was texting me. Angela knows that Tabeth 0:18:53.680 --> 0:18:56.359 has always been close to every one of her sisters, 0:18:56.400 --> 0:18:58.760 and every one of them could have talked to her. 0:18:58.800 --> 0:19:02.000 Out its everyone. I'm gonna talked Tabby out of there, 0:19:02.920 --> 0:19:08.280 and Angela knew that we're going to take a break. 0:19:08.600 --> 0:19:13.679 We'll be back in a moment. Oh. I'm Carol Fisher 0:19:13.840 --> 0:19:16.960 and I'm hosting a podcast called The girl Friends. Back 0:19:17.000 --> 0:19:19.919 in the nineteen nineties in Las Vegas, a few of 0:19:20.000 --> 0:19:24.439 us dated the most eligible bachelor in town, Bob. He 0:19:24.840 --> 0:19:30.600 spoke several languages, he did medical missionary work, and he 0:19:30.760 --> 0:19:34.679 was Jewish. He was perfect on paper, but he wasn't. 0:19:34.960 --> 0:19:39.880 He really wasn't. He choked into the point she went unconscious. 0:19:40.280 --> 0:19:44.400 Bob could lie about anything, but only takes the one 0:19:44.480 --> 0:19:48.440 time when somebody ends up dead. Unfortunately for Bob, us 0:19:48.480 --> 0:19:51.399 girlfriends know how to fight back. I wanted him to 0:19:51.440 --> 0:19:54.760 pay for his crime. He needed to be put to justice. 0:19:55.000 --> 0:19:56.560 I'll be honest with you. If I saw him right now, 0:19:56.600 --> 0:19:58.919 I'd spit on him. I would call him and I 0:19:58.960 --> 0:20:02.320 would say, knew you killed my sister. I will always 0:20:02.400 --> 0:20:04.919 hound you and haunt you. You can listen to the 0:20:04.960 --> 0:20:09.639 Girlfriends on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you 0:20:09.680 --> 0:20:14.840 get your podcasts. LA's reputation not so great. People from 0:20:15.000 --> 0:20:17.960 LA will have a very superficial, nice conversation with you, 0:20:18.040 --> 0:20:20.439 and they won't lift a finger to help you to La. 0:20:20.560 --> 0:20:25.040 People represent vapidity, stops that like oh the best gulls 0:20:25.119 --> 0:20:29.080 like oh Shoot. As someone born and raised here, I 0:20:29.119 --> 0:20:31.560 can tell you there's much more to La than this. 0:20:33.400 --> 0:20:35.720 My name is James Kim, and I'm the creator of 0:20:35.840 --> 0:20:40.960 a new anthology fiction podcast, call You Feeling This. It's 0:20:41.000 --> 0:20:44.040 ten different stories about La and the real people who 0:20:44.119 --> 0:20:48.640 make up this city. What did you listen to my message? 0:20:48.920 --> 0:20:51.119 Who were just trying to get bought? I think I 0:20:51.200 --> 0:20:55.320 was just freaking out because I'm scared by connecting with 0:20:55.359 --> 0:21:00.399 each other. I'm going to be a father. Ye Are 0:21:00.400 --> 0:21:04.680 you Feeling This? A fiction podcast mixtape about love? Listen 0:21:04.720 --> 0:21:08.359 to it on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast, or wherever 0:21:08.520 --> 0:21:13.439 you get your podcast. Hi. I'm Dalia Wild and I 0:21:13.440 --> 0:21:18.240 want to invite you to listen to my newest podcasts 0:21:18.240 --> 0:21:21.200 to make of our bodies already existed in the true style. 0:21:21.280 --> 0:21:24.680 It's called the Oh My God Particles Show or OMGPS 0:21:24.800 --> 0:21:27.960 for short. How you like me? Always wondering about the universe? 0:21:28.040 --> 0:21:30.760 Like what the universe is made of? What is in 0:21:30.800 --> 0:21:33.640 the atmospheres of alien punic? And you know, how are 0:21:33.640 --> 0:21:37.440 we even here to even ask those questions. So road 0:21:37.480 --> 0:21:41.120 trip I want to get some answers directly from researchers 0:21:41.160 --> 0:21:44.920 At the Large Hadron Collider. We're colliding particles with energies 0:21:45.240 --> 0:21:48.480 that naturally existed in the universe, was about a trillions 0:21:48.480 --> 0:21:51.360 of the second Old. I found scientists from all over 0:21:51.400 --> 0:21:56.560 the world. Everybody is working together to get their experiment working. 0:21:57.000 --> 0:22:01.280 I've got to talk to brilliant astrophysicist who collaborate, Brian May, 0:22:01.640 --> 0:22:04.800 the guitarist from Queen. Listen to the Oh My God 0:22:04.880 --> 0:22:08.280 Particle Show on the I Hurt Radio app, Apple Podcasts 0:22:08.480 --> 0:22:12.840 or wherever you get your podcasts. Hello, and welcome to 0:22:13.000 --> 0:22:15.719 Bad Manners. This is the podcast that takes you inside 0:22:15.760 --> 0:22:19.240 Britain's stately homes and tells all the tales the guy 0:22:19.320 --> 0:22:22.679 books don't. My name is Tom Horton and I'll be 0:22:22.760 --> 0:22:26.560 your host. Britain is riddled with the big houses, from 0:22:26.640 --> 0:22:31.840 crumbling castles, massive mansions and stately piles bigger than Buckingham Palace. 0:22:32.240 --> 0:22:34.359 As a comedian, I'm not really bothered about the facts 0:22:34.359 --> 0:22:36.640 and figures. I just want the juicy stuff. So I'm 0:22:36.680 --> 0:22:39.679 on a mission to find out the frightening, filthy and 0:22:39.800 --> 0:22:43.240 downright jaw dropping stories of these stately homes and the 0:22:43.280 --> 0:22:47.760 people in them. This podcast ventures deep inside some of 0:22:47.800 --> 0:22:51.880 Britain's most incredible and outrageous buildings to spill the tea 0:22:52.000 --> 0:22:56.959 on the scandalous, scary, shocking and hilarious tales. So if 0:22:57.000 --> 0:23:00.640 you want to get historically horrid, royally rawcas and down 0:23:00.720 --> 0:23:04.359 some dirty look low, listen to Bad Manners on the 0:23:04.400 --> 0:23:16.919 iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, well wherever you get your podcasts. 0:23:16.960 --> 0:23:19.560 Six years after the murder, as Chris Nukeam still finds 0:23:19.600 --> 0:23:23.760 George's potential involvement in the Piketon massacre very hard to grasp. 0:23:24.680 --> 0:23:26.560 I mean, I'd have trusted George with my life and 0:23:26.560 --> 0:23:30.720 that's the guy's down the streets on the matter. So 0:23:30.800 --> 0:23:32.800 how do you wrap your head around that feeling like 0:23:32.840 --> 0:23:35.679 someone who you trust your life with is allegedly being 0:23:35.680 --> 0:23:38.879 a part of something where eight people are dad. So 0:23:39.000 --> 0:23:41.480 you asked me how I deal? Well, I guess yeah. 0:23:41.520 --> 0:23:44.760 I get up, I do my chores, they'll do the 0:23:44.760 --> 0:23:47.080 work I gotta do. I spend time with my family 0:23:47.080 --> 0:23:48.879 and I go to bed. I get up next day 0:23:48.920 --> 0:23:52.000 and do it again. I mean I fought for him. 0:23:52.119 --> 0:23:53.920 I'd have never in a million years believe they'd ever 0:23:53.920 --> 0:23:56.120 done anything like this. And when it came out, I mean, 0:23:56.119 --> 0:23:58.160 I just they made me look like the biggest damn 0:23:58.200 --> 0:24:02.840 fool we ever walked there. I kid you not, I 0:24:02.880 --> 0:24:07.320 don't see him doing anything of the sort like, but 0:24:07.520 --> 0:24:10.720 of course I was not there. I don't know what happened. 0:24:15.000 --> 0:24:18.680 Sammy Joe spent time with George after the murders. I 0:24:18.680 --> 0:24:21.520 asked him. I was like, I can't believe this happened. 0:24:22.440 --> 0:24:26.240