1 00:00:00,400 --> 00:00:03,920 Speaker 1: The cheerleaders at a gym in Buffalo have been recording 2 00:00:03,960 --> 00:00:09,240 Speaker 1: themselves to make a new documentary where the news reporters 3 00:00:09,240 --> 00:00:13,160 Speaker 1: because one year ago a mass shooting changed their lives. 4 00:00:13,200 --> 00:00:15,400 Speaker 1: He just walked around shot all the black people. The 5 00:00:15,480 --> 00:00:18,440 Speaker 1: cheer squad, most of whom are black, had to figure 6 00:00:18,480 --> 00:00:21,160 Speaker 1: out how to go on and how to compete. I 7 00:00:21,280 --> 00:00:23,840 Speaker 1: wanted to win for them more than anything this season. 8 00:00:24,000 --> 00:00:28,640 Speaker 1: Listen to the embedded podcast from NPR within the iHeartRadio app, 9 00:00:28,800 --> 00:00:32,720 Speaker 1: or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Carol Fisher and 10 00:00:32,760 --> 00:00:36,800 Speaker 1: I'm hosting a podcast called The Girlfriends. It's Las Vegas, 11 00:00:36,960 --> 00:00:40,200 Speaker 1: it's the nineteen nineties, and it is time to find 12 00:00:40,240 --> 00:00:44,560 Speaker 1: a husband. There were four Jewish doctors who were felt 13 00:00:44,600 --> 00:00:48,040 Speaker 1: to be eligible bachelors. One of them was of the 14 00:00:48,640 --> 00:00:53,239 Speaker 1: Baron bat On paper he was perfect, but in reality, 15 00:00:53,440 --> 00:00:58,080 Speaker 1: this guy's a wacko. He shouted to the point went unconscious. 16 00:00:58,280 --> 00:01:00,560 Speaker 1: I would call him and I would say, I know 17 00:01:00,600 --> 00:01:03,040 Speaker 1: you killed my sister. You can listen to The girl 18 00:01:03,160 --> 00:01:07,440 Speaker 1: Friends on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you 19 00:01:07,480 --> 00:01:11,240 Speaker 1: get your podcasts. Hi, it's Elvis Duran on my new 20 00:01:11,280 --> 00:01:14,600 Speaker 1: podcast Thinking out Loud with Elvis Duran. I'll be bringing 21 00:01:14,640 --> 00:01:17,160 Speaker 1: you candid and maybe sometimes a little crazy interviews with 22 00:01:17,319 --> 00:01:20,039 Speaker 1: people from all walks of life. We'll touch on subjects 23 00:01:20,040 --> 00:01:23,919 Speaker 1: that you just can't talk about on the radio, like life, love, success, failure, 24 00:01:23,959 --> 00:01:26,319 Speaker 1: or whatever else comes to mind. But all jacked up 25 00:01:26,600 --> 00:01:28,520 Speaker 1: because after being in this business for as long as 26 00:01:28,520 --> 00:01:30,200 Speaker 1: I have, I want to get to the bottom of 27 00:01:30,240 --> 00:01:32,960 Speaker 1: what makes people tick. And listen to my new podcast, 28 00:01:33,240 --> 00:01:37,600 Speaker 1: Thinking out Loud on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or 29 00:01:37,600 --> 00:01:41,720 Speaker 1: wherever you get your podcasts. They are more identity threats 30 00:01:41,720 --> 00:01:44,679 Speaker 1: than you realize. Even if you monitor your credit, only 31 00:01:44,720 --> 00:01:47,520 Speaker 1: a little personal info needs to leak out, like your 32 00:01:47,560 --> 00:01:51,120 Speaker 1: social Security number or password, or are you did any 33 00:01:51,160 --> 00:01:54,680 Speaker 1: kind of a victimis LifeLock alerts you to threats you 34 00:01:54,680 --> 00:01:57,800 Speaker 1: could miss. If your identity is stolen, a dedicated US 35 00:01:57,880 --> 00:02:01,200 Speaker 1: based restoration specialist will work to sense. No one can 36 00:02:01,240 --> 00:02:04,760 Speaker 1: prevent all identity theft or monitor all transactions, but everyone 37 00:02:04,800 --> 00:02:06,760 Speaker 1: can save up to twenty five percent off their first 38 00:02:06,840 --> 00:02:13,400 Speaker 1: year Go to LifeLock dot com slash aware. George was 39 00:02:13,400 --> 00:02:15,640 Speaker 1: pretty much my brother. I mean, if I was ever 40 00:02:15,720 --> 00:02:17,560 Speaker 1: going to have anybody I considered brother, it would have 41 00:02:17,560 --> 00:02:21,079 Speaker 1: been him. How would you describe him? Hard working, down 42 00:02:21,120 --> 00:02:24,040 Speaker 1: to hers boy, do anything in the world for anybody. 43 00:02:25,320 --> 00:02:28,359 Speaker 1: If I was broke down three states over at two 44 00:02:28,360 --> 00:02:30,720 Speaker 1: o'clock in the morning, I could call him. He's about 45 00:02:30,720 --> 00:02:33,600 Speaker 1: the only one that I miss is George Trump. I'm sorry. 46 00:02:34,400 --> 00:02:37,280 Speaker 1: So how did George get wrapped up into this? Oh? Well, 47 00:02:38,280 --> 00:02:41,160 Speaker 1: since they was young, they always beating into his head 48 00:02:41,200 --> 00:02:43,000 Speaker 1: that he always had to take care of his little brother, 49 00:02:43,520 --> 00:02:45,840 Speaker 1: no matter what. Can let nobody heard his little brother 50 00:02:46,680 --> 00:02:48,959 Speaker 1: always had to take his little brother's side, no matter what. 51 00:02:49,320 --> 00:02:50,959 Speaker 1: And I think I'd had something to do with it. 52 00:02:56,800 --> 00:03:01,760 Speaker 1: This is the Peketon Massacre. Returned to Pake County season three, 53 00:03:01,840 --> 00:03:08,640 Speaker 1: episode five, One Eyed Wolf. I'm Courtney Armstrong, a television 54 00:03:08,639 --> 00:03:12,520 Speaker 1: producer at Katie Studios with Stephanie Leidiger and Jeff Shane. 55 00:03:13,080 --> 00:03:15,840 Speaker 1: George Wagner is awaiting trial in Pike County for his 56 00:03:15,919 --> 00:03:19,520 Speaker 1: involvement in the murders of the Roden family. He's pleaded 57 00:03:19,680 --> 00:03:24,320 Speaker 1: not guilty. After two seasons of reporting, details of what 58 00:03:24,360 --> 00:03:26,959 Speaker 1: allegedly went down on the night of April twenty first, 59 00:03:27,000 --> 00:03:31,120 Speaker 1: twenty sixteen have slowly come into focus, but we still 60 00:03:31,160 --> 00:03:33,520 Speaker 1: know little about the eldest son of the Wagner clan, 61 00:03:33,800 --> 00:03:37,280 Speaker 1: George Wagner. In this episode, we talked to the people 62 00:03:37,280 --> 00:03:40,160 Speaker 1: who knew George the best and delve into why many 63 00:03:40,200 --> 00:03:43,760 Speaker 1: are still trying to comprehend his potential involvement in the 64 00:03:43,760 --> 00:03:49,280 Speaker 1: Pike of Nassacre. In May of twenty seventeen, thirteen months 65 00:03:49,320 --> 00:03:52,160 Speaker 1: after the murders, investigators sent a SWAT team to the 66 00:03:52,200 --> 00:03:56,080 Speaker 1: Wagner's property to search for evidence. Around that time, George 67 00:03:56,160 --> 00:03:59,840 Speaker 1: changed his social media profile picture and an online group 68 00:04:00,000 --> 00:04:03,320 Speaker 1: picked it up immediately screen shot at it and posted 69 00:04:03,320 --> 00:04:08,640 Speaker 1: it here's an anonymous Wagner and Roden family source. It's crazy. 70 00:04:08,760 --> 00:04:10,800 Speaker 1: I don't know what all is out and what's not out. 71 00:04:10,840 --> 00:04:13,760 Speaker 1: But when all this went down, he had posted what 72 00:04:13,960 --> 00:04:16,240 Speaker 1: is it called your profile picture of a wolf that 73 00:04:16,320 --> 00:04:21,159 Speaker 1: had a chart in one eye. And if you get 74 00:04:21,160 --> 00:04:23,120 Speaker 1: on there and read that Angela is on there and 75 00:04:23,240 --> 00:04:25,520 Speaker 1: tell him he needs to delete it, you know you 76 00:04:25,520 --> 00:04:28,960 Speaker 1: shouldn't be doing that. And then everybody in this group 77 00:04:29,000 --> 00:04:31,920 Speaker 1: that I'm in was like, oh, that's like pointing to 78 00:04:32,000 --> 00:04:37,839 Speaker 1: him having shot Kenny, and Angela commented on it, really 79 00:04:37,960 --> 00:04:40,520 Speaker 1: quessed you marked. Everybody in his faith book group was like, oh, 80 00:04:40,520 --> 00:04:44,159 Speaker 1: my gosh, he's the one who shot Kenny. Kenneth Roden, 81 00:04:44,480 --> 00:04:47,760 Speaker 1: brother of patriarch Chris Roden Senior, was the eighth and 82 00:04:47,839 --> 00:04:51,400 Speaker 1: final victim to be discovered. This was five hours after 83 00:04:51,520 --> 00:04:54,560 Speaker 1: Bobby Joe Manley discovered the first bodies and called nine 84 00:04:54,640 --> 00:05:00,320 Speaker 1: one one, I need it. He's been about to most 85 00:05:00,320 --> 00:05:04,080 Speaker 1: of seven, nine and nine. Okay. This is family member 86 00:05:04,160 --> 00:05:08,120 Speaker 1: Donald Stone calling from Kenneth's home, seven miles away from 87 00:05:08,160 --> 00:05:11,120 Speaker 1: the other crime scenes. It's all this stuff. It's going 88 00:05:11,200 --> 00:05:15,120 Speaker 1: to news. I just found to just found Martasins was 89 00:05:15,160 --> 00:05:18,680 Speaker 1: again shot was and I don't know what his address is. Harney. 90 00:05:18,760 --> 00:05:21,440 Speaker 1: Out of the house. I'm out of the house right now. 91 00:05:21,560 --> 00:05:26,720 Speaker 1: Is just winning horror nighting Stone found Kenneth lying in 92 00:05:26,800 --> 00:05:30,239 Speaker 1: his bed, face up, covered in blood. He had dollar 93 00:05:30,279 --> 00:05:34,240 Speaker 1: bills strewn over the lower half of his body. He 94 00:05:34,320 --> 00:05:37,080 Speaker 1: was the only victim killed with a single gunshot wound 95 00:05:37,080 --> 00:05:41,159 Speaker 1: to the head, specifically through his right eye. This is 96 00:05:41,200 --> 00:05:43,919 Speaker 1: like the picture of the wolf and George's profile that 97 00:05:44,000 --> 00:05:49,760 Speaker 1: piqued people's interest online. Here's Stephanie and Jeff. It came 98 00:05:49,760 --> 00:05:53,560 Speaker 1: to our attention that in October of twenty eighteen, about 99 00:05:53,600 --> 00:05:57,640 Speaker 1: a month before the Wagners were arrested. George Wagner changed 100 00:05:57,720 --> 00:06:02,000 Speaker 1: his profile picture to a cartoon wolf that has a 101 00:06:02,080 --> 00:06:06,000 Speaker 1: scar over its right eye, and on that picture, his mother, 102 00:06:06,040 --> 00:06:10,320 Speaker 1: Angela Wagner commented, really, we can only assume this picture 103 00:06:11,040 --> 00:06:14,760 Speaker 1: represents Kenneth Roden, who was shot in the right eye, 104 00:06:15,120 --> 00:06:19,159 Speaker 1: and that George Wagner was somehow bragging or making a 105 00:06:19,240 --> 00:06:27,400 Speaker 1: callback to the way Kenneth Roden was murdered. We do 106 00:06:27,560 --> 00:06:31,920 Speaker 1: also know that Kenneth Roden was really the only victim 107 00:06:31,960 --> 00:06:36,280 Speaker 1: who was shot just once in their right eye, and 108 00:06:36,880 --> 00:06:40,400 Speaker 1: the significance of that might be tied to this photo. 109 00:06:40,680 --> 00:06:43,080 Speaker 1: It feels like a stretch a little bit, to be honest. 110 00:06:44,760 --> 00:06:49,559 Speaker 1: So he posted this on October fourth, twenty eighteen, and 111 00:06:49,960 --> 00:06:52,960 Speaker 1: a few weeks prior to that, on September nineteenth, twenty eighteen, 112 00:06:53,080 --> 00:06:56,080 Speaker 1: is when the autopsy notes were released and everyone found 113 00:06:56,080 --> 00:07:00,080 Speaker 1: out that Kenneth was shot in the right eye. And 114 00:07:00,080 --> 00:07:02,279 Speaker 1: so it seems like a bit of a coincidence that 115 00:07:02,640 --> 00:07:04,719 Speaker 1: we as the public, find out that Kenneth throw it 116 00:07:04,720 --> 00:07:07,800 Speaker 1: in a shot in the right eye, and then George 117 00:07:07,800 --> 00:07:10,640 Speaker 1: Wagner posts this photo of a wolf with a scar 118 00:07:10,760 --> 00:07:15,800 Speaker 1: over its right eye, and that maybe wouldn't be connective. 119 00:07:15,840 --> 00:07:19,200 Speaker 1: But then if it wasn't, why would Angela make that comment? 120 00:07:19,560 --> 00:07:21,200 Speaker 1: Because if it's just a picture of a wolf, like, 121 00:07:21,280 --> 00:07:23,760 Speaker 1: what does his mom care what he posts on Facebook? 122 00:07:23,800 --> 00:07:27,240 Speaker 1: And it doesn't have this kind of deeper meaning. So 123 00:07:27,320 --> 00:07:31,080 Speaker 1: much has been made about this online and in various 124 00:07:31,120 --> 00:07:35,800 Speaker 1: different Facebook groups. It could really just be a complete coincidence. 125 00:07:36,440 --> 00:07:39,120 Speaker 1: It could, but we can only assume what the Wagners did. 126 00:07:39,520 --> 00:07:41,800 Speaker 1: I think it's fair to scrutinize all of their behavior 127 00:07:42,440 --> 00:07:46,000 Speaker 1: prior to the arrests and following the murders. What would 128 00:07:46,000 --> 00:07:50,080 Speaker 1: be the significance of that. Either he's bragging or is 129 00:07:50,120 --> 00:07:53,480 Speaker 1: he giving a signal to someone else? What is the 130 00:07:53,720 --> 00:07:56,840 Speaker 1: connective tissue there? The way I read into it is 131 00:07:56,880 --> 00:08:02,680 Speaker 1: that he's bragging about the murders. Why would he do that? 132 00:08:03,440 --> 00:08:06,160 Speaker 1: We do know they get arrested one month later. Many 133 00:08:06,200 --> 00:08:10,120 Speaker 1: people in the area were saying that the Wagoners were 134 00:08:10,200 --> 00:08:14,720 Speaker 1: expecting to be arrested at any moment, And it really 135 00:08:14,760 --> 00:08:17,520 Speaker 1: does make you wonder why they were so busy on 136 00:08:17,560 --> 00:08:21,120 Speaker 1: social media in the first place. If you feared that 137 00:08:21,200 --> 00:08:23,520 Speaker 1: you were going to be arrested, why would you possibly 138 00:08:23,520 --> 00:08:32,600 Speaker 1: go on social media? Period? The way it was presented 139 00:08:32,679 --> 00:08:34,520 Speaker 1: to me was that it was more of a matter 140 00:08:34,520 --> 00:08:37,520 Speaker 1: of fact that the police think we're tied up in this, 141 00:08:37,760 --> 00:08:40,319 Speaker 1: we're going to get arrested, but we're going to get 142 00:08:40,320 --> 00:08:43,319 Speaker 1: out because we're innocent. It's just a formality. And so 143 00:08:43,480 --> 00:08:45,400 Speaker 1: the way I think, at least they were portraying themselves 144 00:08:45,440 --> 00:08:48,520 Speaker 1: to their friends and family was that they were very 145 00:08:48,600 --> 00:08:51,440 Speaker 1: confident about their innocence and all of this, and that 146 00:08:51,520 --> 00:09:01,000 Speaker 1: they would not be roped into it too much. Jake 147 00:09:01,559 --> 00:09:03,880 Speaker 1: was the one that literally said he shot five people 148 00:09:04,040 --> 00:09:08,240 Speaker 1: or killed five people and shot six and I don't know. 149 00:09:08,400 --> 00:09:11,160 Speaker 1: I mean, who was the other person? Well, if anything, 150 00:09:11,240 --> 00:09:13,480 Speaker 1: I think Billy, you know, would been the crazy one 151 00:09:13,480 --> 00:09:16,360 Speaker 1: to do something, because Billy has always come up with 152 00:09:16,400 --> 00:09:20,480 Speaker 1: these crazy schemes. Billy I would not put past to 153 00:09:20,520 --> 00:09:23,000 Speaker 1: do anything. I feel like he would be at a 154 00:09:23,000 --> 00:09:26,920 Speaker 1: gas station and shoot somebody. I probably George would throw 155 00:09:27,000 --> 00:09:31,360 Speaker 1: up if he shot somebody, But I don't know, I don't, 156 00:09:31,520 --> 00:09:36,240 Speaker 1: I don't know. Last season, it seems like the only 157 00:09:36,240 --> 00:09:38,680 Speaker 1: thing we heard about George Wagner was that he was 158 00:09:38,920 --> 00:09:41,840 Speaker 1: an abusive husband and all around a pretty bad guy. 159 00:09:42,640 --> 00:09:47,360 Speaker 1: But as the court proceedings have kind of continued, We've 160 00:09:47,480 --> 00:09:49,600 Speaker 1: talked to more and more people who were close with 161 00:09:49,600 --> 00:09:51,600 Speaker 1: George Wagner and have kind of told us the opposite 162 00:09:51,640 --> 00:09:54,920 Speaker 1: of what we've always heard. Everyone we've spoken to as 163 00:09:54,960 --> 00:09:57,800 Speaker 1: of late has said nothing but nice things about him, 164 00:09:57,960 --> 00:10:00,199 Speaker 1: basically that he was this great guy and they are 165 00:10:00,240 --> 00:10:03,840 Speaker 1: shocked that he was involved in this murder. No one 166 00:10:03,880 --> 00:10:06,880 Speaker 1: seems to have a hard time imagining that Billy, Jake, 167 00:10:07,000 --> 00:10:10,800 Speaker 1: or even Angela could have planned murdered uncovered up this crime. 168 00:10:11,280 --> 00:10:13,800 Speaker 1: But people have a really hard time wrapping their head 169 00:10:13,840 --> 00:10:19,680 Speaker 1: around George Wagner being involved, which is surprising to me 170 00:10:19,800 --> 00:10:23,679 Speaker 1: because we did hear about how terribly he treated his 171 00:10:23,760 --> 00:10:27,840 Speaker 1: wife when they all lived with his mother, Angela Wagner, 172 00:10:27,880 --> 00:10:32,040 Speaker 1: and the whole accused family mistreated her. This season, yeah, 173 00:10:32,080 --> 00:10:35,120 Speaker 1: we've heard quite the opposite. All we really have so 174 00:10:35,160 --> 00:10:37,800 Speaker 1: far is Jake's plea deal, where he has testified that 175 00:10:37,920 --> 00:10:41,640 Speaker 1: George was only their last minute and really was only 176 00:10:41,679 --> 00:10:45,560 Speaker 1: there to protect Jake from their father, which you know, 177 00:10:45,600 --> 00:10:48,840 Speaker 1: we're still trying to unpack what that actually means. So 178 00:10:48,920 --> 00:10:52,160 Speaker 1: let's play that out really quickly. Just this scenario as 179 00:10:52,200 --> 00:10:55,160 Speaker 1: we maybe know it right now. According to all of 180 00:10:55,160 --> 00:10:59,680 Speaker 1: these plea agreements. Jake, who has admitted to five killings, 181 00:11:01,080 --> 00:11:05,040 Speaker 1: and Dad Billy Wagner they were the ones that were 182 00:11:05,040 --> 00:11:07,360 Speaker 1: going to go out and do all of the killing. 183 00:11:07,440 --> 00:11:10,480 Speaker 1: So that's five that Jake was going to do or 184 00:11:10,559 --> 00:11:14,800 Speaker 1: has admitted to, leaving the remaining three maybe done by Billy. 185 00:11:15,520 --> 00:11:19,079 Speaker 1: Yet at the very last minute, George, the oldest brother, 186 00:11:19,559 --> 00:11:23,240 Speaker 1: to protect his younger brother, decides to go along with them, 187 00:11:23,240 --> 00:11:25,439 Speaker 1: even though he's been a part of the planning, he 188 00:11:25,480 --> 00:11:29,320 Speaker 1: wasn't intending ongoing And now according to Angela Wagner, she 189 00:11:29,440 --> 00:11:35,400 Speaker 1: stayed behind to babysit. So now George tags along. What 190 00:11:35,440 --> 00:11:38,760 Speaker 1: does that mean? Is he equally responsible? Is he not 191 00:11:38,840 --> 00:11:42,040 Speaker 1: responsible at all? He was a part of all the planning, 192 00:11:42,120 --> 00:11:45,040 Speaker 1: so maybe he wasn't one of the trigger pullers. But 193 00:11:45,160 --> 00:11:49,720 Speaker 1: it also speaks to the larger question of why would 194 00:11:49,760 --> 00:11:54,040 Speaker 1: George Wagner think their father was going to kill or 195 00:11:54,120 --> 00:11:59,720 Speaker 1: harm Jake Wagner. It's certainly a good question, and I 196 00:11:59,760 --> 00:12:02,679 Speaker 1: won or if George's defense will bring that up, because 197 00:12:02,720 --> 00:12:05,000 Speaker 1: I think in the eyes of the law, if you 198 00:12:05,040 --> 00:12:07,600 Speaker 1: plan a murder and you're at the murder, you're pretty 199 00:12:07,640 --> 00:12:11,679 Speaker 1: culpable in the crime. And so whether you're there to 200 00:12:11,840 --> 00:12:14,480 Speaker 1: protect someone else or not. We'll see if that matters 201 00:12:14,520 --> 00:12:16,839 Speaker 1: and how much that will play out in his upcoming trial. 202 00:12:17,640 --> 00:12:20,240 Speaker 1: If we're just going to play along with this version 203 00:12:20,280 --> 00:12:23,640 Speaker 1: of a tale, if George Wagner was just tagging along 204 00:12:23,679 --> 00:12:27,160 Speaker 1: to protect Jake Wagner from their father, Billy Wagner, go 205 00:12:27,240 --> 00:12:29,760 Speaker 1: with me here for one quick second, that would imply 206 00:12:30,040 --> 00:12:35,640 Speaker 1: that Billy Wagner dad was allegedly going to kill or 207 00:12:35,760 --> 00:12:39,839 Speaker 1: harm Jake Wagner. Why would he do that? Like, why 208 00:12:39,880 --> 00:12:43,840 Speaker 1: would George have to protect Jake from their dad? And 209 00:12:43,880 --> 00:12:45,760 Speaker 1: I guess the only thing that would sort of make 210 00:12:45,840 --> 00:12:49,760 Speaker 1: sense is because maybe Billy Wagner was going to kill 211 00:12:50,440 --> 00:12:54,080 Speaker 1: Jake Wagner just so there was nobody left to turn 212 00:12:54,120 --> 00:13:00,600 Speaker 1: them in. Yeah, there would have been one US witness. 213 00:13:00,720 --> 00:13:02,880 Speaker 1: And as we know the kind of how the dynamics 214 00:13:02,880 --> 00:13:06,240 Speaker 1: of the family were, Jake and Angela Wagner were very close, 215 00:13:06,240 --> 00:13:09,120 Speaker 1: and Billy and George Wagner were very close. So perhaps 216 00:13:09,160 --> 00:13:12,400 Speaker 1: George felt that if he went he could maybe talk 217 00:13:12,440 --> 00:13:14,800 Speaker 1: some sense for lack of a better term, into his 218 00:13:14,920 --> 00:13:20,079 Speaker 1: dad and protect Jake at the same time. It's certainly complicated. 219 00:13:20,559 --> 00:13:23,760 Speaker 1: It's important to note that both George and Billy Wagner 220 00:13:23,800 --> 00:13:26,040 Speaker 1: have pleaded not guilty on all counts and have not 221 00:13:26,160 --> 00:13:28,559 Speaker 1: yet had their day in court. So everything we're talking 222 00:13:28,559 --> 00:13:32,040 Speaker 1: about is just Jake and Angela Wagner's version of events. 223 00:13:32,440 --> 00:13:35,680 Speaker 1: Otherwise the prosecution would not allow their version of events 224 00:13:35,720 --> 00:13:39,920 Speaker 1: to be, frankly, the foundation of their upcoming trials. Yeah, 225 00:13:40,000 --> 00:13:43,880 Speaker 1: certainly the prosecution believes Jake and Angela's version of how 226 00:13:44,040 --> 00:13:48,120 Speaker 1: things went down that night. But it's just important to 227 00:13:48,120 --> 00:13:55,160 Speaker 1: note that Billy and George are disputing all this and 228 00:13:55,240 --> 00:13:57,480 Speaker 1: it's not just us Steph who are trying to unpack this. 229 00:13:57,840 --> 00:14:00,800 Speaker 1: The people who were close with the Wagner family are 230 00:14:00,880 --> 00:14:03,240 Speaker 1: still kind of wrapping their head around all of this, 231 00:14:03,760 --> 00:14:07,080 Speaker 1: particularly Chris Newcome, who as we know, is Angela Wagner's 232 00:14:07,080 --> 00:14:10,840 Speaker 1: half brother, was very close with George and in talking 233 00:14:10,880 --> 00:14:13,960 Speaker 1: to him numerous times, He's still really grappling with this 234 00:14:14,000 --> 00:14:16,839 Speaker 1: whole situation and still trying to come to terms with 235 00:14:16,920 --> 00:14:20,000 Speaker 1: George Wagner's possible involvement. And it's been six years since 236 00:14:20,000 --> 00:14:23,600 Speaker 1: this whole thing happened. Chris was born when his older 237 00:14:23,640 --> 00:14:27,080 Speaker 1: half sister, Angela was twenty. The age gap kept the 238 00:14:27,080 --> 00:14:30,040 Speaker 1: two from growing close but Chris was drawn to her boys, 239 00:14:30,680 --> 00:14:33,880 Speaker 1: specifically to George. I mean, help me and my nephews. 240 00:14:33,920 --> 00:14:35,760 Speaker 1: We grew up more like brothers than we did huncle 241 00:14:35,800 --> 00:14:38,600 Speaker 1: and nephews. I'm two and a half years older than Jake, 242 00:14:38,640 --> 00:14:40,760 Speaker 1: in a year and a half older than George. I 243 00:14:40,800 --> 00:14:42,880 Speaker 1: was always closer to George than I was with Jake. 244 00:14:43,320 --> 00:14:47,760 Speaker 1: Man George, we'd always go hunting, fishing, camping. He always 245 00:14:47,800 --> 00:14:49,320 Speaker 1: wanted to have his own hunting show. Do you know 246 00:14:49,440 --> 00:14:53,560 Speaker 1: you wanted to go on TV Hunti's monster Deer and 247 00:14:53,640 --> 00:14:56,800 Speaker 1: Perkey and Elk and stuff like it. I mean, he 248 00:14:56,840 --> 00:15:01,200 Speaker 1: loved hunting that much, Sammy. I spoke with us earlier 249 00:15:01,200 --> 00:15:04,120 Speaker 1: in the season about both the Rodin and Wagner families. 250 00:15:05,080 --> 00:15:08,440 Speaker 1: She dated Frankie Rodin from seventh to ninth grade and 251 00:15:08,600 --> 00:15:12,000 Speaker 1: was involved with Jake Wagner at times, but she also 252 00:15:12,040 --> 00:15:15,080 Speaker 1: had a crush on George. I probably shouldn't say that, 253 00:15:15,200 --> 00:15:20,520 Speaker 1: but Jake we pretty much stopped talking because I think 254 00:15:20,560 --> 00:15:23,240 Speaker 1: Angela thought I was trying to get Jake to break 255 00:15:23,320 --> 00:15:26,120 Speaker 1: up with Hannah, and that's not what it was. Because 256 00:15:26,240 --> 00:15:30,120 Speaker 1: I didn't want Jake. I wanted George. What did you 257 00:15:30,160 --> 00:15:36,000 Speaker 1: like about George? Just his goofiness. Honestly, George, he's a 258 00:15:36,000 --> 00:15:38,880 Speaker 1: big teddy bear. Really. I remember a time I got 259 00:15:38,880 --> 00:15:40,760 Speaker 1: a hold of George and I told him. I was like, 260 00:15:40,920 --> 00:15:42,920 Speaker 1: I can't afford Christmas. I don't know what to do, 261 00:15:43,160 --> 00:15:45,400 Speaker 1: and he goes meet me at the gas station. He 262 00:15:45,520 --> 00:15:47,840 Speaker 1: gave me money to pay my electric bill and bought 263 00:15:47,880 --> 00:15:52,080 Speaker 1: my daughter present. Wow, so he was like your Santa Claus. Yeah. 264 00:15:52,360 --> 00:15:54,120 Speaker 1: Like it broke my heart when I found out he 265 00:15:54,200 --> 00:15:57,480 Speaker 1: was married the first time. And did you ever confess 266 00:15:57,560 --> 00:16:02,840 Speaker 1: to George that you kind of liked Nope, Now I 267 00:16:02,840 --> 00:16:07,320 Speaker 1: don't never know. He was just a nice guy, good 268 00:16:07,320 --> 00:16:09,720 Speaker 1: to be around, you know, didn't really talk too much, 269 00:16:10,320 --> 00:16:13,440 Speaker 1: but he was definitely a nice person. Howard grew up 270 00:16:13,440 --> 00:16:15,880 Speaker 1: with the Wagners and lived near them in both Ohio 271 00:16:16,040 --> 00:16:19,280 Speaker 1: and Alaska. I just remember my sister. I'll keep her 272 00:16:19,320 --> 00:16:20,480 Speaker 1: name out of him, but she kind of had a 273 00:16:20,480 --> 00:16:23,640 Speaker 1: crush on George and she would always talking to him 274 00:16:23,640 --> 00:16:26,680 Speaker 1: on Facebook and things like that. It's very funny because 275 00:16:26,840 --> 00:16:29,560 Speaker 1: you're the second person today who has made mention of 276 00:16:29,840 --> 00:16:33,400 Speaker 1: a family member, specifically his sister, who kind of loved 277 00:16:33,560 --> 00:16:37,240 Speaker 1: George from a distance, and still have the nicest, kindest 278 00:16:37,280 --> 00:16:39,600 Speaker 1: things to say of him. If I had a daughter 279 00:16:39,600 --> 00:16:41,480 Speaker 1: and he were hurried, That's who I would want my 280 00:16:41,560 --> 00:16:43,880 Speaker 1: daughter nating. He was just a great guy. He was 281 00:16:43,960 --> 00:16:46,080 Speaker 1: super nice, like very friendly. Jake called the other hair 282 00:16:46,200 --> 00:16:48,920 Speaker 1: was kind of secluded, kind of recluse. But George was 283 00:16:48,960 --> 00:16:54,280 Speaker 1: just nice, like all around a nice guy. We've been 284 00:16:54,320 --> 00:16:56,600 Speaker 1: able to speak with a whole host of new family 285 00:16:56,640 --> 00:17:00,880 Speaker 1: members and friends this season. Patricia, you may recall, is 286 00:17:00,880 --> 00:17:02,920 Speaker 1: one of them. So I think God every day that 287 00:17:03,320 --> 00:17:06,520 Speaker 1: Doabta was no longer with him. Patricia is the mother 288 00:17:06,560 --> 00:17:10,919 Speaker 1: of George's ex wife, Tabitha. Tabitha was bullied into relinquishing 289 00:17:10,960 --> 00:17:14,520 Speaker 1: control of her child with George by Angela Wagner. The 290 00:17:14,600 --> 00:17:18,280 Speaker 1: situation was eerily similar to the custody battle between Hanname 291 00:17:18,400 --> 00:17:22,080 Speaker 1: Rodin and Jake Wagner that was happening before the massacre. 292 00:17:25,720 --> 00:17:28,360 Speaker 1: I think the only reason that save Tapsa from going 293 00:17:28,400 --> 00:17:30,960 Speaker 1: through this same thing was the fact that she didn't 294 00:17:30,960 --> 00:17:34,920 Speaker 1: fight for custody of honor. They had him already so 295 00:17:35,640 --> 00:17:37,760 Speaker 1: caused him harm to Dabby with them done him any good. 296 00:17:39,119 --> 00:17:42,720 Speaker 1: Patricia claims Angela pulled all the strings within the Wagner clan. 297 00:17:43,480 --> 00:17:45,760 Speaker 1: I know the demeanor of Angelis. She tries to be 298 00:17:46,280 --> 00:17:49,400 Speaker 1: the loving, cheering mother. But if you've seen the side 299 00:17:49,440 --> 00:17:52,440 Speaker 1: of Angelis that I've seen, and the way she holds 300 00:17:52,440 --> 00:17:56,480 Speaker 1: your demeanor around me, you could tell that she was 301 00:17:56,480 --> 00:18:01,879 Speaker 1: all faked. Dabby wasn't afraid of George, Danna wasn't afraid 302 00:18:01,920 --> 00:18:07,080 Speaker 1: of Jake. They were only afraid of Angela. Sammy Chose 303 00:18:07,080 --> 00:18:10,560 Speaker 1: saw firsthand how Angela should just control over her sons. 304 00:18:11,119 --> 00:18:15,600 Speaker 1: She was just really intimidating normally growing up, I was 305 00:18:15,640 --> 00:18:20,439 Speaker 1: always with Jake, and then as I got older, the 306 00:18:20,560 --> 00:18:25,000 Speaker 1: contact changed from Jake to George because Jake became a 307 00:18:26,040 --> 00:18:29,560 Speaker 1: stuck up I'm trying to think of nice, not so 308 00:18:29,880 --> 00:18:37,520 Speaker 1: hateful words, but he became Angela. Angela took over Tabitha's 309 00:18:37,560 --> 00:18:41,160 Speaker 1: life as well. For two years she lived with them 310 00:18:41,200 --> 00:18:43,320 Speaker 1: and was not allowed to have any contacted with me 311 00:18:43,440 --> 00:18:47,480 Speaker 1: once whoever, because Angela didn't want her to. They even 312 00:18:47,480 --> 00:18:49,480 Speaker 1: went as far as they conduct the cell phone from 313 00:18:49,480 --> 00:18:53,640 Speaker 1: her because she was texting me. Angela knows that Tabeth 314 00:18:53,680 --> 00:18:56,359 Speaker 1: has always been close to every one of her sisters, 315 00:18:56,400 --> 00:18:58,760 Speaker 1: and every one of them could have talked to her. 316 00:18:58,800 --> 00:19:02,000 Speaker 1: Out its everyone. I'm gonna talked Tabby out of there, 317 00:19:02,920 --> 00:19:08,280 Speaker 1: and Angela knew that we're going to take a break. 318 00:19:08,600 --> 00:19:13,679 Speaker 1: We'll be back in a moment. Oh. I'm Carol Fisher 319 00:19:13,840 --> 00:19:16,960 Speaker 1: and I'm hosting a podcast called The girl Friends. Back 320 00:19:17,000 --> 00:19:19,919 Speaker 1: in the nineteen nineties in Las Vegas, a few of 321 00:19:20,000 --> 00:19:24,439 Speaker 1: us dated the most eligible bachelor in town, Bob. He 322 00:19:24,840 --> 00:19:30,600 Speaker 1: spoke several languages, he did medical missionary work, and he 323 00:19:30,760 --> 00:19:34,679 Speaker 1: was Jewish. He was perfect on paper, but he wasn't. 324 00:19:34,960 --> 00:19:39,880 Speaker 1: He really wasn't. He choked into the point she went unconscious. 325 00:19:40,280 --> 00:19:44,400 Speaker 1: Bob could lie about anything, but only takes the one 326 00:19:44,480 --> 00:19:48,440 Speaker 1: time when somebody ends up dead. Unfortunately for Bob, us 327 00:19:48,480 --> 00:19:51,399 Speaker 1: girlfriends know how to fight back. I wanted him to 328 00:19:51,440 --> 00:19:54,760 Speaker 1: pay for his crime. He needed to be put to justice. 329 00:19:55,000 --> 00:19:56,560 Speaker 1: I'll be honest with you. If I saw him right now, 330 00:19:56,600 --> 00:19:58,919 Speaker 1: I'd spit on him. I would call him and I 331 00:19:58,960 --> 00:20:02,320 Speaker 1: would say, knew you killed my sister. I will always 332 00:20:02,400 --> 00:20:04,919 Speaker 1: hound you and haunt you. You can listen to the 333 00:20:04,960 --> 00:20:09,639 Speaker 1: Girlfriends on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you 334 00:20:09,680 --> 00:20:14,840 Speaker 1: get your podcasts. LA's reputation not so great. People from 335 00:20:15,000 --> 00:20:17,960 Speaker 1: LA will have a very superficial, nice conversation with you, 336 00:20:18,040 --> 00:20:20,439 Speaker 1: and they won't lift a finger to help you to La. 337 00:20:20,560 --> 00:20:25,040 Speaker 1: People represent vapidity, stops that like oh the best gulls 338 00:20:25,119 --> 00:20:29,080 Speaker 1: like oh Shoot. As someone born and raised here, I 339 00:20:29,119 --> 00:20:31,560 Speaker 1: can tell you there's much more to La than this. 340 00:20:33,400 --> 00:20:35,720 Speaker 1: My name is James Kim, and I'm the creator of 341 00:20:35,840 --> 00:20:40,960 Speaker 1: a new anthology fiction podcast, call You Feeling This. It's 342 00:20:41,000 --> 00:20:44,040 Speaker 1: ten different stories about La and the real people who 343 00:20:44,119 --> 00:20:48,640 Speaker 1: make up this city. What did you listen to my message? 344 00:20:48,920 --> 00:20:51,119 Speaker 1: Who were just trying to get bought? I think I 345 00:20:51,200 --> 00:20:55,320 Speaker 1: was just freaking out because I'm scared by connecting with 346 00:20:55,359 --> 00:21:00,399 Speaker 1: each other. I'm going to be a father. Ye Are 347 00:21:00,400 --> 00:21:04,680 Speaker 1: you Feeling This? A fiction podcast mixtape about love? Listen 348 00:21:04,720 --> 00:21:08,359 Speaker 1: to it on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast, or wherever 349 00:21:08,520 --> 00:21:13,439 Speaker 1: you get your podcast. Hi. I'm Dalia Wild and I 350 00:21:13,440 --> 00:21:18,240 Speaker 1: want to invite you to listen to my newest podcasts 351 00:21:18,240 --> 00:21:21,200 Speaker 1: to make of our bodies already existed in the true style. 352 00:21:21,280 --> 00:21:24,680 Speaker 1: It's called the Oh My God Particles Show or OMGPS 353 00:21:24,800 --> 00:21:27,960 Speaker 1: for short. How you like me? Always wondering about the universe? 354 00:21:28,040 --> 00:21:30,760 Speaker 1: Like what the universe is made of? What is in 355 00:21:30,800 --> 00:21:33,640 Speaker 1: the atmospheres of alien punic? And you know, how are 356 00:21:33,640 --> 00:21:37,440 Speaker 1: we even here to even ask those questions. So road 357 00:21:37,480 --> 00:21:41,120 Speaker 1: trip I want to get some answers directly from researchers 358 00:21:41,160 --> 00:21:44,920 Speaker 1: At the Large Hadron Collider. We're colliding particles with energies 359 00:21:45,240 --> 00:21:48,480 Speaker 1: that naturally existed in the universe, was about a trillions 360 00:21:48,480 --> 00:21:51,360 Speaker 1: of the second Old. I found scientists from all over 361 00:21:51,400 --> 00:21:56,560 Speaker 1: the world. Everybody is working together to get their experiment working. 362 00:21:57,000 --> 00:22:01,280 Speaker 1: I've got to talk to brilliant astrophysicist who collaborate, Brian May, 363 00:22:01,640 --> 00:22:04,800 Speaker 1: the guitarist from Queen. Listen to the Oh My God 364 00:22:04,880 --> 00:22:08,280 Speaker 1: Particle Show on the I Hurt Radio app, Apple Podcasts 365 00:22:08,480 --> 00:22:12,840 Speaker 1: or wherever you get your podcasts. Hello, and welcome to 366 00:22:13,000 --> 00:22:15,719 Speaker 1: Bad Manners. This is the podcast that takes you inside 367 00:22:15,760 --> 00:22:19,240 Speaker 1: Britain's stately homes and tells all the tales the guy 368 00:22:19,320 --> 00:22:22,679 Speaker 1: books don't. My name is Tom Horton and I'll be 369 00:22:22,760 --> 00:22:26,560 Speaker 1: your host. Britain is riddled with the big houses, from 370 00:22:26,640 --> 00:22:31,840 Speaker 1: crumbling castles, massive mansions and stately piles bigger than Buckingham Palace. 371 00:22:32,240 --> 00:22:34,359 Speaker 1: As a comedian, I'm not really bothered about the facts 372 00:22:34,359 --> 00:22:36,640 Speaker 1: and figures. I just want the juicy stuff. So I'm 373 00:22:36,680 --> 00:22:39,679 Speaker 1: on a mission to find out the frightening, filthy and 374 00:22:39,800 --> 00:22:43,240 Speaker 1: downright jaw dropping stories of these stately homes and the 375 00:22:43,280 --> 00:22:47,760 Speaker 1: people in them. This podcast ventures deep inside some of 376 00:22:47,800 --> 00:22:51,880 Speaker 1: Britain's most incredible and outrageous buildings to spill the tea 377 00:22:52,000 --> 00:22:56,959 Speaker 1: on the scandalous, scary, shocking and hilarious tales. So if 378 00:22:57,000 --> 00:23:00,640 Speaker 1: you want to get historically horrid, royally rawcas and down 379 00:23:00,720 --> 00:23:04,359 Speaker 1: some dirty look low, listen to Bad Manners on the 380 00:23:04,400 --> 00:23:16,919 Speaker 1: iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, well wherever you get your podcasts. 381 00:23:16,960 --> 00:23:19,560 Speaker 1: Six years after the murder, as Chris Nukeam still finds 382 00:23:19,600 --> 00:23:23,760 Speaker 1: George's potential involvement in the Piketon massacre very hard to grasp. 383 00:23:24,680 --> 00:23:26,560 Speaker 1: I mean, I'd have trusted George with my life and 384 00:23:26,560 --> 00:23:30,720 Speaker 1: that's the guy's down the streets on the matter. So 385 00:23:30,800 --> 00:23:32,800 Speaker 1: how do you wrap your head around that feeling like 386 00:23:32,840 --> 00:23:35,679 Speaker 1: someone who you trust your life with is allegedly being 387 00:23:35,680 --> 00:23:38,879 Speaker 1: a part of something where eight people are dad. So 388 00:23:39,000 --> 00:23:41,480 Speaker 1: you asked me how I deal? Well, I guess yeah. 389 00:23:41,520 --> 00:23:44,760 Speaker 1: I get up, I do my chores, they'll do the 390 00:23:44,760 --> 00:23:47,080 Speaker 1: work I gotta do. I spend time with my family 391 00:23:47,080 --> 00:23:48,879 Speaker 1: and I go to bed. I get up next day 392 00:23:48,920 --> 00:23:52,000 Speaker 1: and do it again. I mean I fought for him. 393 00:23:52,119 --> 00:23:53,920 Speaker 1: I'd have never in a million years believe they'd ever 394 00:23:53,920 --> 00:23:56,120 Speaker 1: done anything like this. And when it came out, I mean, 395 00:23:56,119 --> 00:23:58,160 Speaker 1: I just they made me look like the biggest damn 396 00:23:58,200 --> 00:24:02,840 Speaker 1: fool we ever walked there. I kid you not, I 397 00:24:02,880 --> 00:24:07,320 Speaker 1: don't see him doing anything of the sort like, but 398 00:24:07,520 --> 00:24:10,720 Speaker 1: of course I was not there. I don't know what happened. 399 00:24:15,000 --> 00:24:18,680 Speaker 1: Sammy Joe spent time with George after the murders. I 400 00:24:18,680 --> 00:24:21,520 Speaker 1: asked him. I was like, I can't believe this happened. 401 00:24:22,440 --> 00:24:26,240 Speaker 1: But George like shut me out, like he goes, how 402 00:24:26,280 --> 00:24:31,200 Speaker 1: could we do it? There's something wrong, Like he coolly 403 00:24:31,280 --> 00:24:33,359 Speaker 1: shut me out, Like I knew something was wrong that 404 00:24:33,520 --> 00:24:36,359 Speaker 1: day when we were talking about it, like our fish 405 00:24:36,400 --> 00:24:39,160 Speaker 1: and trip was going good and it got rung roll. 406 00:24:42,240 --> 00:24:45,359 Speaker 1: We spoke to a close friend of George's, who, after 407 00:24:45,400 --> 00:24:47,840 Speaker 1: the interview was done, decided it hit a little too 408 00:24:47,840 --> 00:24:50,840 Speaker 1: close to home and requested their voice not be used 409 00:24:50,880 --> 00:24:56,280 Speaker 1: at all. Here Stephanie and Jeff recounting the conversation. This 410 00:24:56,480 --> 00:24:59,159 Speaker 1: young woman who was very close with the Wagner family, 411 00:24:59,480 --> 00:25:03,879 Speaker 1: recounting to us that the morning of November twenty eighteen, 412 00:25:03,960 --> 00:25:06,960 Speaker 1: the day all of the Wagners were arrested, she had 413 00:25:07,000 --> 00:25:10,920 Speaker 1: actually been communicating with both George and Angela, and according 414 00:25:10,920 --> 00:25:13,920 Speaker 1: to her, the conversations were rather mundane. They were talking 415 00:25:13,960 --> 00:25:16,359 Speaker 1: about how their days were going, what kind of errands 416 00:25:16,359 --> 00:25:18,960 Speaker 1: they were running, and we know that Jake and George 417 00:25:19,000 --> 00:25:22,200 Speaker 1: were together at the time of their arrests and they 418 00:25:22,240 --> 00:25:26,640 Speaker 1: were in their truck running errands, and that Angela Wagner 419 00:25:26,960 --> 00:25:30,680 Speaker 1: was dropping her grandkids off at school. They also talked 420 00:25:30,720 --> 00:25:33,439 Speaker 1: about things like Thanksgiving, which was coming up in a 421 00:25:33,480 --> 00:25:36,840 Speaker 1: couple of weeks. And within minutes of ending the conversations, 422 00:25:37,080 --> 00:25:41,879 Speaker 1: this young woman saw the news of the arrests and 423 00:25:42,040 --> 00:25:45,000 Speaker 1: after the shock of the news, her first thoughts were, 424 00:25:45,200 --> 00:25:50,159 Speaker 1: it had to have been Billy and Jake. Angela and 425 00:25:50,240 --> 00:25:53,119 Speaker 1: George must have been covering for them. And again that 426 00:25:53,160 --> 00:25:55,800 Speaker 1: doesn't make it a matter of fact, but she was 427 00:25:55,880 --> 00:26:02,119 Speaker 1: incredibly surprised and steadfast that George and Angela must have 428 00:26:02,160 --> 00:26:05,439 Speaker 1: been covering for Billy and Jake. Yeah, it paints a 429 00:26:05,480 --> 00:26:07,480 Speaker 1: picture of what that day was like, which is very 430 00:26:07,480 --> 00:26:10,520 Speaker 1: bizarre because you see the news footage of Billy getting 431 00:26:10,560 --> 00:26:13,719 Speaker 1: coughed and the bodycam footage minutes before that, they were 432 00:26:13,720 --> 00:26:16,520 Speaker 1: just living their lives, helping to get away with murder, 433 00:26:20,160 --> 00:26:22,879 Speaker 1: or they were just expecting to go through the formality 434 00:26:22,920 --> 00:26:27,320 Speaker 1: of being arrested, being booked, being released on bail, and 435 00:26:27,600 --> 00:26:30,080 Speaker 1: that this would all go away. I think that's what 436 00:26:30,200 --> 00:26:33,360 Speaker 1: they really believed at this point. It doesn't explain why 437 00:26:33,400 --> 00:26:36,359 Speaker 1: they came back, though. So they came back to care 438 00:26:36,440 --> 00:26:40,480 Speaker 1: for Billy Wagner's ailing father, but they didn't really move back. 439 00:26:40,680 --> 00:26:43,600 Speaker 1: They just came back, and we're staying in that small 440 00:26:43,640 --> 00:26:47,000 Speaker 1: house that we ultimately saw recently. But they weren't settled in. 441 00:26:47,080 --> 00:26:49,520 Speaker 1: Were They just coming back with the understanding that they 442 00:26:49,520 --> 00:26:53,280 Speaker 1: were going to get arrested and that would blow over 443 00:26:53,320 --> 00:26:55,520 Speaker 1: really quickly and then they could pick up life and 444 00:26:55,840 --> 00:26:59,399 Speaker 1: go back to normal. According to everyone who knew them, 445 00:26:59,480 --> 00:27:04,919 Speaker 1: that scene to be their frame of mind. Court just 446 00:27:04,960 --> 00:27:07,439 Speaker 1: wrapped up in Pike County. Mike Chell was there as 447 00:27:07,480 --> 00:27:10,720 Speaker 1: George Wagner the Fourth made an appearance. He's been covering 448 00:27:10,720 --> 00:27:13,560 Speaker 1: the Pike County massacres since it happened in twenty sixteen. 449 00:27:14,160 --> 00:27:16,760 Speaker 1: This spring, George Wagner appeared in court as part of 450 00:27:16,760 --> 00:27:20,920 Speaker 1: his pre child hearings. He walked into the courtroom unrestrained 451 00:27:20,960 --> 00:27:24,440 Speaker 1: and dressed in civilian clothes. He's tall, so he had 452 00:27:24,480 --> 00:27:26,800 Speaker 1: to bow his head to hear the hush direction of 453 00:27:26,800 --> 00:27:32,160 Speaker 1: his lawyers before he's at for the hearing. So, Mike, 454 00:27:32,200 --> 00:27:35,760 Speaker 1: what happened in court today, Chriss was a revealing day 455 00:27:35,800 --> 00:27:39,120 Speaker 1: here in the Pike County Courthouse. Captain Seth Hegeman, now 456 00:27:39,160 --> 00:27:43,080 Speaker 1: with the Westchester Police Department, was a special agent with 457 00:27:43,160 --> 00:27:46,960 Speaker 1: a Bureau of Criminal Investigations back in twenty sixteen, and 458 00:27:47,080 --> 00:27:50,200 Speaker 1: he was one of the lead investigators on the Pike 459 00:27:50,280 --> 00:27:53,880 Speaker 1: County murders. Now Hageman spent about two and a half 460 00:27:53,920 --> 00:27:58,000 Speaker 1: hours on the stand testifying. Here's the police captain's interpretation 461 00:27:58,040 --> 00:28:01,520 Speaker 1: of a tattoo that George Wagner got just a few 462 00:28:01,520 --> 00:28:06,040 Speaker 1: months after the murders. Obviously, a skulls often used to 463 00:28:06,080 --> 00:28:09,320 Speaker 1: be associated with death immortality, and then eight bowls is 464 00:28:09,440 --> 00:28:12,480 Speaker 1: sometimes thought as a symbol of chance. But there also 465 00:28:12,520 --> 00:28:15,000 Speaker 1: should be noted there were eight victims in the Roden homicides. 466 00:28:15,960 --> 00:28:18,240 Speaker 1: And then he had tattoos of aces and eights that 467 00:28:18,280 --> 00:28:21,560 Speaker 1: are commonly considered the dead man's hand and represent death 468 00:28:21,600 --> 00:28:28,480 Speaker 1: and murder. Here again, as Stephanie and Jeff, so let's 469 00:28:28,480 --> 00:28:30,960 Speaker 1: break this down a bit. And it's a bit confusing 470 00:28:31,080 --> 00:28:34,199 Speaker 1: because we were not able to obtain the entire hearing 471 00:28:34,440 --> 00:28:37,280 Speaker 1: courtroom footage and instead have to fall back on reporting. 472 00:28:37,640 --> 00:28:41,400 Speaker 1: And different sources have said different things about when George 473 00:28:41,400 --> 00:28:44,720 Speaker 1: Wagner got this tattoo. Some news sources have said it 474 00:28:44,760 --> 00:28:47,280 Speaker 1: was before the murders and some have said after, so 475 00:28:47,320 --> 00:28:50,000 Speaker 1: it's not totally clear to us which is true. What 476 00:28:50,040 --> 00:28:52,760 Speaker 1: we do know is that at some point George Wagner 477 00:28:52,840 --> 00:28:56,480 Speaker 1: got a tattoo of a dead man's hand. And for 478 00:28:56,520 --> 00:28:58,880 Speaker 1: those of you who are not familiar with poker, a 479 00:28:59,000 --> 00:29:03,760 Speaker 1: dead man's hand is composed of eights and aces. It's 480 00:29:03,760 --> 00:29:05,640 Speaker 1: called the dead man's hand because it's rumored to be 481 00:29:05,680 --> 00:29:08,200 Speaker 1: the hand of a man named wild Bill Hickcock who 482 00:29:08,240 --> 00:29:09,880 Speaker 1: was holding it when he was shot in the back 483 00:29:09,920 --> 00:29:13,240 Speaker 1: by arrival, and because of that, the hand is now 484 00:29:13,320 --> 00:29:18,880 Speaker 1: cursed forever, which again we don't know the link. But 485 00:29:19,000 --> 00:29:21,240 Speaker 1: if we're going to analyze all of the behavior of 486 00:29:21,240 --> 00:29:25,120 Speaker 1: the Wagner's pre and post murder, it certainly seems like 487 00:29:25,120 --> 00:29:29,200 Speaker 1: it's possible that George Wagner knows this folklore story and 488 00:29:29,280 --> 00:29:33,680 Speaker 1: decided to get a tattoo because he himself shot the Rodents. 489 00:29:37,160 --> 00:29:40,720 Speaker 1: Much has been made online about their various tattoos, and 490 00:29:40,840 --> 00:29:45,880 Speaker 1: Facebook postings, and yes, you can read into them for sure. 491 00:29:46,360 --> 00:29:49,920 Speaker 1: For example, it's speculated that the eight ball connects the 492 00:29:49,920 --> 00:29:54,760 Speaker 1: eight members of the Rodent family. That's possible, it also 493 00:29:54,800 --> 00:29:58,640 Speaker 1: could be a big stretch. George Wagner's child is tentatively 494 00:29:58,680 --> 00:30:02,480 Speaker 1: said to begin two months now based on a recent hearing. 495 00:30:02,480 --> 00:30:06,040 Speaker 1: The prosecution's case is pushing forward with the fundamental argument 496 00:30:06,280 --> 00:30:09,040 Speaker 1: that the murders were a family affair, with George being 497 00:30:09,080 --> 00:30:15,400 Speaker 1: complicit in the crimes. They functioned as one unit at 498 00:30:15,480 --> 00:30:19,560 Speaker 1: all times. Like I said, they worked together, they homeschool together. 499 00:30:20,080 --> 00:30:22,800 Speaker 1: This is demonstrated by factors, including to that limited two 500 00:30:22,880 --> 00:30:25,160 Speaker 1: that are residing together in a varying insular manner in 501 00:30:25,200 --> 00:30:29,600 Speaker 1: their entire lives, even while married as adults. It establishes 502 00:30:29,640 --> 00:30:34,400 Speaker 1: this conspiracy, It establishes the enterprise. The all of this 503 00:30:34,520 --> 00:30:39,400 Speaker 1: information goes together to show that they were again that 504 00:30:39,600 --> 00:30:43,440 Speaker 1: group think, the group action. Not one of them turned 505 00:30:43,440 --> 00:30:45,600 Speaker 1: back from these crimes. They all knew what was going 506 00:30:45,680 --> 00:30:48,440 Speaker 1: to happen that night. They all had their own roles. 507 00:30:52,960 --> 00:30:56,320 Speaker 1: The possible depths of George's allegiance to his family was 508 00:30:56,360 --> 00:31:00,080 Speaker 1: on full display on April twenty eight, twenty sixteen, a 509 00:31:00,120 --> 00:31:04,760 Speaker 1: warm day in South Shore, Kentucky. We received a picture 510 00:31:04,880 --> 00:31:07,760 Speaker 1: from a listener that was used in the Cincinnati Enquirer, 511 00:31:08,480 --> 00:31:11,360 Speaker 1: and while we can't be one hundred percent certain, it 512 00:31:11,360 --> 00:31:15,920 Speaker 1: appears to have Billy, George and Jake Wagner in it. 513 00:31:15,920 --> 00:31:19,800 Speaker 1: It was taken at the funeral of Gary Rowden. Also, 514 00:31:19,800 --> 00:31:21,920 Speaker 1: I think it's worth noting, Jeff that we actually were 515 00:31:21,960 --> 00:31:25,120 Speaker 1: tipped off to this photograph by a listener. We hadn't 516 00:31:25,160 --> 00:31:27,760 Speaker 1: seen it before, and when you look at it, it's 517 00:31:27,800 --> 00:31:31,840 Speaker 1: pretty staggering because it's all three Wagner accused men, and 518 00:31:31,960 --> 00:31:34,680 Speaker 1: you can't really see their expressions too too closely, but 519 00:31:35,040 --> 00:31:37,920 Speaker 1: you can just see they're clearly speaking to somebody, and 520 00:31:38,360 --> 00:31:40,880 Speaker 1: it just makes you wonder what could they possibly be 521 00:31:40,960 --> 00:31:45,440 Speaker 1: talking about, what could possibly be going on in their heads. Collectively, 522 00:31:45,840 --> 00:31:48,160 Speaker 1: they also have to look the people in the eye 523 00:31:48,720 --> 00:31:51,360 Speaker 1: and the family members in the eye of the people 524 00:31:51,360 --> 00:31:57,160 Speaker 1: that they allegedly murdered. You know, everyone is there grieving, 525 00:31:57,160 --> 00:31:59,520 Speaker 1: The whole town is there grieving, and you know full 526 00:31:59,520 --> 00:32:02,400 Speaker 1: well that you're at the exact same place that you 527 00:32:02,560 --> 00:32:08,680 Speaker 1: caused all of that pain for everyone. Yeah, what's so 528 00:32:08,760 --> 00:32:11,040 Speaker 1: striking to me that is, if indeed these are the 529 00:32:11,120 --> 00:32:14,880 Speaker 1: Wagner men attending Gary Roden's funeral. Just how performative the 530 00:32:14,920 --> 00:32:18,200 Speaker 1: whole thing must have been. They went there as this 531 00:32:18,320 --> 00:32:21,760 Speaker 1: grieving family supporting their friends and sort of in laws. 532 00:32:21,800 --> 00:32:23,280 Speaker 1: I mean, the Wagners and the Rodents were sort of 533 00:32:23,280 --> 00:32:26,120 Speaker 1: in laws to one another, and so to have to 534 00:32:26,160 --> 00:32:29,600 Speaker 1: go there and put on this show of a grieving 535 00:32:29,800 --> 00:32:34,280 Speaker 1: family is pretty hard to wrap your head around. Kind 536 00:32:34,320 --> 00:32:38,920 Speaker 1: of relevant here too. George Wagner's whole defense is that 537 00:32:39,000 --> 00:32:41,200 Speaker 1: he had nothing to do with this, Yet here we 538 00:32:41,280 --> 00:32:46,000 Speaker 1: see the family as they stand together at the funeral 539 00:32:46,480 --> 00:32:50,360 Speaker 1: of a man that was allegedly murdered by at least 540 00:32:50,520 --> 00:32:54,000 Speaker 1: some of them. So George was in the mix, and 541 00:32:54,520 --> 00:32:57,720 Speaker 1: we've heard some very checkered things about him, certainly how 542 00:32:57,760 --> 00:33:00,480 Speaker 1: he handled his own ex wife and the custody of 543 00:33:00,480 --> 00:33:03,880 Speaker 1: their child. But this season we also started to hear 544 00:33:03,920 --> 00:33:06,600 Speaker 1: things that are also quite different. That he was really 545 00:33:06,680 --> 00:33:10,720 Speaker 1: loving and kind, and that he could never pull this off. 546 00:33:11,520 --> 00:33:13,160 Speaker 1: And then you look at a picture like this and 547 00:33:13,680 --> 00:33:18,520 Speaker 1: it does make you wonder. My sister always kept him 548 00:33:18,560 --> 00:33:20,360 Speaker 1: on a short leach. I mean, she wouldn't let him 549 00:33:20,400 --> 00:33:22,400 Speaker 1: do anything, wouldn't let him get away from anybody. You know. 550 00:33:22,440 --> 00:33:24,000 Speaker 1: I mean that she just kept him on a short lease. 551 00:33:24,560 --> 00:33:25,880 Speaker 1: They had to stay there, had to take care of 552 00:33:25,880 --> 00:33:29,160 Speaker 1: the family. George wanted to leave. He wanted his own place, 553 00:33:29,560 --> 00:33:33,920 Speaker 1: but never got it. If you're raised your entire life 554 00:33:34,120 --> 00:33:38,000 Speaker 1: a certain way, it's hard to change if you've had 555 00:33:38,040 --> 00:33:40,959 Speaker 1: something pounded like they was homeschooled all their life. I 556 00:33:41,000 --> 00:33:44,600 Speaker 1: think it was just the fact that he was, like 557 00:33:44,680 --> 00:33:46,400 Speaker 1: I said, had a pounding in his head that you 558 00:33:46,480 --> 00:33:48,920 Speaker 1: always have to take care of the family, always helped 559 00:33:48,960 --> 00:33:51,200 Speaker 1: the family, whatever they do, You got to be a 560 00:33:51,240 --> 00:33:55,000 Speaker 1: part of the help or whatever. And I think it 561 00:33:55,080 --> 00:33:56,840 Speaker 1: just pounded in his head so much that he started 562 00:33:56,840 --> 00:33:58,480 Speaker 1: believing it because I know that he was raised up 563 00:33:58,520 --> 00:34:00,920 Speaker 1: to always take care of Jake. Oh, no matter what, 564 00:34:00,960 --> 00:34:04,160 Speaker 1: he has to protect Jack. Don't matter if Jake does 565 00:34:04,200 --> 00:34:06,320 Speaker 1: wrong to somebody else and they won't pay back on it, 566 00:34:06,320 --> 00:34:08,080 Speaker 1: don't matter. You've got to take care of your brother. 567 00:34:08,880 --> 00:34:11,640 Speaker 1: And so when Angela is like this, Hannah, a girl 568 00:34:11,760 --> 00:34:14,279 Speaker 1: is trouble, she's trying to take away Jake's daughter, What's 569 00:34:14,280 --> 00:34:18,960 Speaker 1: he gonna do protect his brother. Yeah, that's the way 570 00:34:19,000 --> 00:34:22,680 Speaker 1: he was raised up. After Jake confessed it or whatever 571 00:34:22,760 --> 00:34:25,200 Speaker 1: he did have I just said, hey, I ain't got 572 00:34:25,239 --> 00:34:28,600 Speaker 1: nothing for him anymore. I defended him tooth and nail 573 00:34:28,719 --> 00:34:30,680 Speaker 1: to everybody that had anything bad to say about him. 574 00:34:30,680 --> 00:34:32,759 Speaker 1: I defended because I had thought to myself there said, 575 00:34:32,800 --> 00:34:34,480 Speaker 1: there's no way my family could have had anything to 576 00:34:34,480 --> 00:34:37,680 Speaker 1: do with this. I said, I've known George and Jake, 577 00:34:37,800 --> 00:34:40,080 Speaker 1: you know, all their life. I said, there's no way 578 00:34:40,360 --> 00:34:44,640 Speaker 1: possible that they could have done this. I've always been 579 00:34:44,680 --> 00:34:47,960 Speaker 1: so curious to know more about life behind bars. For 580 00:34:48,200 --> 00:34:51,680 Speaker 1: the individual Wagner family members, we know that they've been 581 00:34:51,719 --> 00:34:56,839 Speaker 1: separated and haven't seen each other since their arrests. We've 582 00:34:56,840 --> 00:34:59,920 Speaker 1: been in contact with one of Angela Wagner's sell men. 583 00:35:00,560 --> 00:35:03,400 Speaker 1: We know that George Wagner requested solitary confinement in a 584 00:35:03,440 --> 00:35:06,120 Speaker 1: bible and that he was originally in Ross County Jail 585 00:35:06,120 --> 00:35:08,840 Speaker 1: but is currently in the Montgomery County Jail in Ohio. 586 00:35:09,480 --> 00:35:11,680 Speaker 1: And as for angel and Billy Wagner, they have both 587 00:35:11,680 --> 00:35:15,240 Speaker 1: been in the same jails since they were arrested. Billy 588 00:35:15,360 --> 00:35:18,800 Speaker 1: is in Hamilton, Ohio, and Angela Wagner is in Delaware County. 589 00:35:19,440 --> 00:35:22,799 Speaker 1: The youngest Wagner's son, Jake, is currently being held in 590 00:35:22,880 --> 00:35:26,239 Speaker 1: the Franklin County Jail in Columbus, Ohio, and all of 591 00:35:26,239 --> 00:35:28,960 Speaker 1: these jails are in about one hundred and seventy five 592 00:35:29,000 --> 00:35:31,560 Speaker 1: mile radius of each other in a little under three hours. 593 00:35:31,880 --> 00:35:34,680 Speaker 1: But for a family who will probably never see each 594 00:35:34,680 --> 00:35:37,040 Speaker 1: other again except for when they are testifying against each 595 00:35:37,040 --> 00:35:40,600 Speaker 1: other in court, those three hours probably feel like a lifetime. 596 00:35:45,719 --> 00:35:48,279 Speaker 1: And Steph, you know a little bit more about Jake's 597 00:35:48,320 --> 00:35:52,560 Speaker 1: time in jail. Right. Somebody who has access to Jake 598 00:35:52,600 --> 00:35:55,960 Speaker 1: Wagner on a daily basis came and saw us at 599 00:35:55,960 --> 00:35:59,880 Speaker 1: a work event and said that Jake is very busy 600 00:36:00,120 --> 00:36:06,680 Speaker 1: working on a manifesto. So whether that's something he's putting 601 00:36:06,719 --> 00:36:10,640 Speaker 1: together as a book or as a final statement, we 602 00:36:10,719 --> 00:36:14,080 Speaker 1: don't know. You hear the term manifesto a lot when 603 00:36:14,080 --> 00:36:17,040 Speaker 1: it comes to shooters. Often people who go and shoot 604 00:36:17,320 --> 00:36:21,799 Speaker 1: public places write these manifestos prior to their murders. I 605 00:36:21,840 --> 00:36:23,760 Speaker 1: hate to say this out loud, but what a shakeup 606 00:36:23,840 --> 00:36:28,640 Speaker 1: that would be to the remaining trials. Let's stop here 607 00:36:28,840 --> 00:36:34,520 Speaker 1: for another break. Oh. I'm Carol Fisher, and I'm hosting 608 00:36:34,560 --> 00:36:37,720 Speaker 1: a podcast called The girl Friends. Back in the nineteen 609 00:36:37,800 --> 00:36:40,640 Speaker 1: nineties in Las Vegas, a few of us dated the 610 00:36:40,640 --> 00:36:46,640 Speaker 1: most eligible bachelor in town. Bob. He spoke several languages, 611 00:36:46,840 --> 00:36:51,840 Speaker 1: he did medical missionary work, and he was Jewish. He 612 00:36:52,040 --> 00:36:56,480 Speaker 1: was perfect on paper, but he wasn't. He really wasn't. 613 00:36:56,760 --> 00:37:00,680 Speaker 1: He shouted and to the point she went unconscious. Bob 614 00:37:00,840 --> 00:37:04,760 Speaker 1: could lie about anything, but only takes the one time 615 00:37:04,800 --> 00:37:09,120 Speaker 1: when somebody ends up dead. Unfortunately for Bob, us girlfriends 616 00:37:09,200 --> 00:37:11,720 Speaker 1: know how to fight back. I wanted him to pay 617 00:37:11,800 --> 00:37:14,760 Speaker 1: for his crime. He needed to be put to justice. 618 00:37:15,000 --> 00:37:16,560 Speaker 1: I'll be honest with you. If I saw him right now, 619 00:37:16,600 --> 00:37:18,920 Speaker 1: I'd spit on him. I would call him and I 620 00:37:18,960 --> 00:37:21,759 Speaker 1: would say, I know you killed my sister. I will 621 00:37:21,880 --> 00:37:24,799 Speaker 1: always hound you and haunt you. You can listen to 622 00:37:24,840 --> 00:37:29,480 Speaker 1: the Girlfriends on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast, or wherever 623 00:37:29,520 --> 00:37:33,360 Speaker 1: you get your podcasts. Hi, I'm Delia Wild and I 624 00:37:33,400 --> 00:37:35,840 Speaker 1: want to invite you to listen to my newest podcast, 625 00:37:37,719 --> 00:37:41,399 Speaker 1: Answers to make up already existed the two styles. It's 626 00:37:41,400 --> 00:37:45,200 Speaker 1: called The Oh My God Particle Show or OMGPS for short. 627 00:37:45,440 --> 00:37:48,040 Speaker 1: How you like me? Always wondering about the universe, like 628 00:37:48,200 --> 00:37:50,839 Speaker 1: what the universe is made of? What is in the 629 00:37:50,920 --> 00:37:53,719 Speaker 1: atmospheres of alien panics? And you know, how are we 630 00:37:53,760 --> 00:37:57,760 Speaker 1: even here? To even ask those questions. So road Trip 631 00:37:57,960 --> 00:38:01,239 Speaker 1: I want to get some answers directly for researchers at 632 00:38:01,280 --> 00:38:05,319 Speaker 1: the Large Hadron Collider. We're colliding particles with energies that 633 00:38:05,440 --> 00:38:08,480 Speaker 1: naturally existed in the universe was about a trillions of 634 00:38:08,520 --> 00:38:11,800 Speaker 1: a second old. I found scientists from all over the world. 635 00:38:12,000 --> 00:38:17,120 Speaker 1: Everybody is working together to get their experiment working. I've 636 00:38:17,120 --> 00:38:21,200 Speaker 1: got to doctor brilliant astrophysicist who collaborated with Brian may 637 00:38:21,600 --> 00:38:24,719 Speaker 1: the guitarist from Queen. Listen to the Oh My God 638 00:38:24,800 --> 00:38:28,239 Speaker 1: Particle Show on the I Heard Radio app, Apple Podcasts 639 00:38:28,440 --> 00:38:33,400 Speaker 1: or wherever you get your podcasts on the Best Podcast 640 00:38:33,480 --> 00:38:37,920 Speaker 1: Ever with Raven and Miranda, you'll hear well the best 641 00:38:38,080 --> 00:38:42,400 Speaker 1: podcast Ever. Join Raven Simone and her partner Miranda may 642 00:38:42,440 --> 00:38:45,759 Speaker 1: Day as they let the wheel of Words determine the 643 00:38:45,760 --> 00:38:48,799 Speaker 1: topic of that week's show. Every episode will spend a 644 00:38:48,800 --> 00:38:52,040 Speaker 1: wheel of random words from things like animosity to something 645 00:38:52,080 --> 00:38:54,440 Speaker 1: like zodiac and whatever it lands on, that's what we're 646 00:38:54,480 --> 00:38:56,480 Speaker 1: going to talk about for around an hour. Think we 647 00:38:56,560 --> 00:38:58,799 Speaker 1: can't do it, well, then you've never heard us talk. 648 00:38:59,280 --> 00:39:02,640 Speaker 1: Each week, Raven and Miranda and celebrity guests like Demi 649 00:39:02,719 --> 00:39:06,800 Speaker 1: Levado Kiki Palmer and Megan Trainer will spin the fateful 650 00:39:06,800 --> 00:39:11,080 Speaker 1: wheel and then the conversation will begin. Also, we're gonna 651 00:39:11,080 --> 00:39:13,480 Speaker 1: have a ton of amazing guests because you don't want 652 00:39:13,480 --> 00:39:15,000 Speaker 1: to just hear us too all the time. Do Yes, 653 00:39:15,040 --> 00:39:17,239 Speaker 1: you do? And somehow We're going to start with something 654 00:39:17,280 --> 00:39:19,879 Speaker 1: like Spider and end with well, when was your last 655 00:39:19,920 --> 00:39:24,640 Speaker 1: nervous breakdown? Listen to the Best Podcast Ever with Raven 656 00:39:24,680 --> 00:39:29,000 Speaker 1: and Miranda on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever 657 00:39:29,120 --> 00:39:32,839 Speaker 1: you get your podcasts. Everybody. We know there are a 658 00:39:32,920 --> 00:39:35,360 Speaker 1: ton of podcasts out there. Well, we have one we 659 00:39:35,400 --> 00:39:37,359 Speaker 1: would love for you to check out. It is called 660 00:39:37,400 --> 00:39:41,080 Speaker 1: The pen Pals Podcast with Daniel Van Kirk and Rory Scoville. 661 00:39:41,320 --> 00:39:44,400 Speaker 1: We are both stand up comedians where actors were writers, 662 00:39:44,440 --> 00:39:46,880 Speaker 1: but now most of all, we are your pen pals. 663 00:39:46,960 --> 00:39:49,840 Speaker 1: Every single episode we get two letters that we read 664 00:39:50,160 --> 00:39:52,759 Speaker 1: from our listeners, our new pen pals. It can be 665 00:39:52,800 --> 00:39:55,120 Speaker 1: about anything going on in their life, and sometimes we're 666 00:39:55,160 --> 00:39:57,919 Speaker 1: also joined by guests like Will Ferrell. I'm gonna bring 667 00:39:57,920 --> 00:39:59,479 Speaker 1: you up in front of the group. I'm gonna punch 668 00:39:59,520 --> 00:40:01,399 Speaker 1: you as hard as I can in the stomach. Rose burn. 669 00:40:01,640 --> 00:40:08,640 Speaker 1: This is West Hollywood, we keep Clay considered. Brian, I'm 670 00:40:08,680 --> 00:40:11,560 Speaker 1: just showing you that my mind is quick, if not 671 00:40:11,640 --> 00:40:14,720 Speaker 1: that funny. And Mandy Moore, we're all crossing the line together. 672 00:40:15,080 --> 00:40:17,480 Speaker 1: Listen to the pen Pals podcast on Will Ferrell's Big 673 00:40:17,520 --> 00:40:20,920 Speaker 1: Money Players Network, on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcast, or 674 00:40:20,960 --> 00:40:24,000 Speaker 1: wherever you get your podcast. Sincerely, your new pen Pals 675 00:40:24,080 --> 00:40:38,760 Speaker 1: Daniel van Kirk and Rory Scobel. George's ties Swiss family 676 00:40:38,840 --> 00:40:42,040 Speaker 1: will be put to the test at this trial in 677 00:40:42,160 --> 00:40:45,040 Speaker 1: light of Jake's admission of guilt and Angela's plea. The 678 00:40:45,120 --> 00:40:47,800 Speaker 1: eldest son of the Wagner clan is in a tight spot. 679 00:40:49,080 --> 00:40:51,719 Speaker 1: Was George's a legend involvement in the murders as a 680 00:40:51,760 --> 00:40:56,400 Speaker 1: passive participant or could he be a cold blooded killer? 681 00:40:57,920 --> 00:41:02,080 Speaker 1: Here again, Sammy Joe, the family for the rooms cannot 682 00:41:02,120 --> 00:41:05,560 Speaker 1: have closure until they know the truth. They'll never know 683 00:41:05,600 --> 00:41:08,800 Speaker 1: the truth if we keep doing a pre trial trial. 684 00:41:09,080 --> 00:41:12,319 Speaker 1: We're going to move it so on, so forth. The 685 00:41:12,400 --> 00:41:14,120 Speaker 1: way I feel, if you have all the evidence to 686 00:41:14,280 --> 00:41:17,480 Speaker 1: say you have move on. Want to move on so 687 00:41:17,560 --> 00:41:20,320 Speaker 1: people can have closure and move on with their life. 688 00:41:21,400 --> 00:41:25,919 Speaker 1: But again, they're just going to drag their feet and 689 00:41:25,920 --> 00:41:29,720 Speaker 1: eventually the truth will come out, and then the people 690 00:41:29,840 --> 00:41:31,840 Speaker 1: that's way it's so long to find the truth is 691 00:41:31,880 --> 00:41:33,960 Speaker 1: no longer going to be here, and then they never 692 00:41:34,000 --> 00:41:38,160 Speaker 1: had closure in our life. More on that next time. 693 00:41:42,480 --> 00:41:45,080 Speaker 1: If you're enjoying The Pips and Massacre, listen to our 694 00:41:45,160 --> 00:41:49,320 Speaker 1: other hit series, Crazy and Love. New episodes there every 695 00:41:49,360 --> 00:41:53,880 Speaker 1: Tuesday wherever you get your podcasts. For more information and 696 00:41:54,000 --> 00:41:59,040 Speaker 1: case photos, follow us on Instagram at Katie Underscore Studios. 697 00:42:00,160 --> 00:42:03,640 Speaker 1: The Pikes and Massacre is produced by Stephanie Lydeger, Jeff Shane, 698 00:42:03,800 --> 00:42:08,120 Speaker 1: Chris Graves and me Courtney Armstrong. Editing and sound designed 699 00:42:08,120 --> 00:42:12,400 Speaker 1: by Jeff Tis, Music by Jared Aston. The Pikes and 700 00:42:12,440 --> 00:42:16,360 Speaker 1: Massacre is a production of Katie Studios and iHeartRadio. For 701 00:42:16,480 --> 00:42:21,160 Speaker 1: more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, 702 00:42:21,560 --> 00:42:26,320 Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. I'm Carol 703 00:42:26,400 --> 00:42:29,520 Speaker 1: Fisher and I'm hosting a podcast called The Girl Friends. 704 00:42:30,080 --> 00:42:33,520 Speaker 1: It's Las Vegas, it's the nineteen nineties, and it is 705 00:42:33,600 --> 00:42:37,799 Speaker 1: time to find a husband. There were four Jewish doctors 706 00:42:37,880 --> 00:42:41,800 Speaker 1: who were felt to be eligible bachelors. One of them 707 00:42:42,120 --> 00:42:46,000 Speaker 1: was the spot Barren bat On Paper. He was perfect, 708 00:42:46,239 --> 00:42:50,080 Speaker 1: but in reality, this guy's a wacko. He choked and 709 00:42:50,200 --> 00:42:53,439 Speaker 1: to the point she went unconscious. I would call him 710 00:42:53,520 --> 00:42:55,840 Speaker 1: and I would say, I know you killed my sister. 711 00:42:56,280 --> 00:42:59,640 Speaker 1: You can listen to The girl Friends on the iHeartRadio app, 712 00:42:59,719 --> 00:43:03,919 Speaker 1: app podcast or wherever you get your podcasts. Hi, it's 713 00:43:03,920 --> 00:43:07,600 Speaker 1: Elvis Duran on my new podcast, Thinking out Loud. With 714 00:43:07,640 --> 00:43:10,240 Speaker 1: Elvis Duran, I'll be bringing you candid and maybe sometimes 715 00:43:10,239 --> 00:43:13,200 Speaker 1: a little crazy interviews with people from all walks of life. 716 00:43:13,280 --> 00:43:16,040 Speaker 1: We'll touch on subjects that you just can't talk about 717 00:43:16,040 --> 00:43:18,600 Speaker 1: on the radio, like life, love, success, failure, or whatever 718 00:43:18,640 --> 00:43:21,439 Speaker 1: else comes to mind, but all jacked up because after 719 00:43:21,480 --> 00:43:23,200 Speaker 1: being in this business for as long as I have, 720 00:43:23,400 --> 00:43:25,040 Speaker 1: I want to get to the bottom of what makes 721 00:43:25,080 --> 00:43:28,320 Speaker 1: people tick. So listen to my new podcast, Thinking out 722 00:43:28,360 --> 00:43:32,400 Speaker 1: Loud on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you 723 00:43:32,440 --> 00:43:37,560 Speaker 1: get your podcasts. Hi, it's me Isaac ms Rahi And 724 00:43:37,840 --> 00:43:40,439 Speaker 1: oh my god, we have such a special guest coming 725 00:43:40,480 --> 00:43:44,600 Speaker 1: up on Hello Isaac. It's the fabulous Andy Cohen. He's 726 00:43:44,640 --> 00:43:46,759 Speaker 1: here to talk to us about all the stuff you 727 00:43:46,800 --> 00:43:50,440 Speaker 1: want to talk to Andy about and darlings. That episode 728 00:43:50,520 --> 00:43:53,880 Speaker 1: is coming out on Monday, July thirty. First, listen to 729 00:43:53,960 --> 00:43:58,040 Speaker 1: Hello Isaac on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get 730 00:43:58,080 --> 00:44:04,879 Speaker 1: your podcasts. So, how does a half American, half Nicaraguan 731 00:44:04,960 --> 00:44:09,200 Speaker 1: party girl from New Orleans. There's absolutely no journalism experience, right, 732 00:44:09,280 --> 00:44:12,360 Speaker 1: the biggest story of the eighties, That's what journalist is 733 00:44:12,400 --> 00:44:16,680 Speaker 1: all about. I'm a woman, wife beater T shirt, not 734 00:44:16,840 --> 00:44:21,400 Speaker 1: wearing a braw curses like a sailer. I got balls 735 00:44:21,440 --> 00:44:24,160 Speaker 1: bigger than any man. Dan rather used to call me 736 00:44:24,200 --> 00:44:27,640 Speaker 1: his secret weapon. Listen to Journalist to every Tuesday on 737 00:44:27,680 --> 00:44:31,920 Speaker 1: the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts.