WEBVTT - CZM Rewind: The War on Trans People: Part 3, The TERF International 0:00:01.720 --> 0:00:02.920 All Zone Media. 0:00:03.800 --> 0:00:06.480 Welcome to another rewind episode of vike it Happened Here. 0:00:07.240 --> 0:00:09.640 Last year, we did a series of episodes in the 0:00:09.720 --> 0:00:13.600 United States War and trans People. Since then, things have 0:00:13.680 --> 0:00:18.640 only gotten worse. Even an electoral defeat, transphobic politicians across 0:00:18.680 --> 0:00:20.960 the country have only doubled and tripled down on their 0:00:20.960 --> 0:00:23.960 attempts to wipe trans people out for good. So today 0:00:24.040 --> 0:00:27.280 we're going to revisit part three of that series, called 0:00:27.280 --> 0:00:30.720 the Turf International, in which we look at the transnational 0:00:30.800 --> 0:00:34.400 network of transphobes who built the modern anti trans movement 0:00:34.760 --> 0:00:39.120 and see how they function in both Mexico and the US. 0:00:43.000 --> 0:00:45.800 Welcome to Ikeodappen Here, a podcast that this week is 0:00:45.800 --> 0:00:49.320 about the war on trans people. I'm your host, Christopher Wong. 0:00:51.000 --> 0:00:53.280 If you've been around the left long enough, you've probably 0:00:53.320 --> 0:01:00.360 heard people called transclusionary radical feminism, or terfism a colonial ideology. Broadly, 0:01:00.520 --> 0:01:03.400 the accusation of colonialism is about the erasure of non 0:01:03.440 --> 0:01:07.440 Western genders to fall outside the Christian gender binary. But 0:01:07.560 --> 0:01:11.000 urfs are colonial in another sense as well, exported by 0:01:11.000 --> 0:01:13.840 white academics to a network of fall feminist and anti 0:01:13.840 --> 0:01:17.480 trafficking groups, the ideology has imposed itself on the global 0:01:17.480 --> 0:01:21.080 South with devastating and violent consequences. As a product of 0:01:21.080 --> 0:01:24.320 this colonial imposition, Mexico has become one of the front 0:01:24.319 --> 0:01:27.120 lines in the war against trans people. I spoke to 0:01:27.120 --> 0:01:30.720 Emmie Flores and Juliana Neuhauser, two members of the Sexual 0:01:30.760 --> 0:01:34.559 and Gender Dissonance Resistance Network, a group of activists aligned 0:01:34.560 --> 0:01:37.320 with the Zapatistas who've been documenting and resisting the spread 0:01:37.319 --> 0:01:38.280 of turfs in Mexico. 0:01:39.319 --> 0:01:44.200 When the new turf waves started in Mexico several years back, 0:01:46.400 --> 0:01:50.160 at the time, I thought thought of it as something 0:01:50.480 --> 0:01:53.240 of like a radicalization that went too far, you know, 0:01:53.640 --> 0:01:55.640 like kind of like thinking back to like the New Left, 0:01:56.600 --> 0:01:59.840 and there was a point during the New Left when 0:01:59.880 --> 0:02:06.760 l like suddenly everybody joined a maoist cult and they 0:02:06.800 --> 0:02:12.440 were angry for the right reasons, but it just went off. 0:02:13.120 --> 0:02:16.760 At some point, I thought that's what was going on 0:02:17.040 --> 0:02:21.000 in Mexico. But then it started to come out more 0:02:21.080 --> 0:02:25.519 that more and more turf groups were had ties to 0:02:25.680 --> 0:02:31.200 political parties and one of the and foreign agents. And 0:02:31.240 --> 0:02:35.680 one of the one of the most dramatic cases is 0:02:35.919 --> 0:02:44.000 from Teluca, a city near Mexico City. Just recently at 0:02:44.040 --> 0:02:47.080 the International Women's date protests, like there were turf groups 0:02:47.080 --> 0:02:51.960 that had made a pinata out of the trans flag, 0:02:52.440 --> 0:02:56.480 had been burning the trans flag also in this same city. 0:02:56.760 --> 0:02:59.919 One of the main turf groups turns out that they're 0:03:00.120 --> 0:03:04.760 leader is on government payroll. And if you've seen Roma, 0:03:04.880 --> 0:03:08.680 for example, the incident, the political incident that happens in 0:03:08.720 --> 0:03:11.280 that movie was based on a real incident from the 0:03:11.280 --> 0:03:15.320 seventies and the tactics of that political party, which is 0:03:15.360 --> 0:03:18.640 the party that controls the state government of the state 0:03:18.680 --> 0:03:22.840 to lucas In basically it hasn't changed and they seem 0:03:22.919 --> 0:03:26.680 to have been using these turfs basically as shock troops. 0:03:27.720 --> 0:03:30.799 At one point, there were two sit ins outside the 0:03:30.840 --> 0:03:34.480 state Congress, one to push for a gender identity a 0:03:34.520 --> 0:03:36.960 law and another to push for the legalization of abortion, 0:03:37.000 --> 0:03:42.080 which are obviously both important things. The ladder, however, was 0:03:42.240 --> 0:03:47.360 controlled by these turf groups, who later mysteriously never seemed 0:03:47.400 --> 0:03:51.560 to appear at other protests asking for the legalization of abortion, 0:03:52.000 --> 0:03:55.560 but they were there. They ran off the trans encampment. 0:03:56.120 --> 0:04:00.520 One of the big incidents was defending the Sanctity women's 0:04:00.520 --> 0:04:03.560 bathroom with barbed wire wrapped baseball bats. 0:04:03.920 --> 0:04:07.560 Jesus, These groups have deep ties to right wing Mexican 0:04:07.600 --> 0:04:11.400 political parties, the police, and the growing Turf International. 0:04:10.880 --> 0:04:13.560 And they seem to be very chummy with the local police. 0:04:15.120 --> 0:04:22.360 Their leader gives classes, but its like trainings to build 0:04:22.720 --> 0:04:23.520 the state government. 0:04:26.200 --> 0:04:30.320 Like you know, you can see live streams of the 0:04:30.520 --> 0:04:34.360 quote unquote protests, and it was mostly them like drinking 0:04:34.680 --> 0:04:37.960 coffee with the cops, like they were on first name 0:04:38.040 --> 0:04:41.680 basis with the cops. While the other camp had like 0:04:42.680 --> 0:04:45.240 Translomen that were too scared to go to the bathroom 0:04:45.560 --> 0:04:49.560 because they were going to be attacked. And so that's 0:04:49.800 --> 0:04:54.200 the starkest group, I think, right the delcatives, which are 0:04:55.240 --> 0:04:58.760 It's funny because almost every party has their own their 0:04:58.800 --> 0:05:02.039 own group. But yeah, also it's no surprised that pri 0:05:02.279 --> 0:05:02.919 is the scariest. 0:05:03.440 --> 0:05:07.320 Yeah. We should also say that these groups are affiliates 0:05:07.320 --> 0:05:12.479 with Sheila Jeffries' Women's Declaration International. And so this is 0:05:12.600 --> 0:05:17.839 also a case of an ideology developed in the first world, 0:05:18.320 --> 0:05:22.480 in this case England, which is largely a safe country 0:05:22.720 --> 0:05:26.840 where even as fascist an ideology as urfism doesn't or 0:05:26.960 --> 0:05:32.920 only very rarely leads to real violence, but it gets 0:05:32.920 --> 0:05:35.680 exported to countries that are not safe where it does 0:05:35.720 --> 0:05:41.880 turn into real violence. So another affiliate of Sheila Jeffreys 0:05:41.920 --> 0:05:45.040 Woman's declaration in Mexico would be LEAs Brujs del Mar, 0:05:46.200 --> 0:05:50.359 who is another case of At first they seemed to 0:05:50.440 --> 0:05:55.599 be a group that was just they just radicalized a 0:05:55.640 --> 0:05:58.920 bit too far. Then photos came out of their leader, 0:05:59.040 --> 0:06:01.120 who was on the time one hundred a couple of 0:06:01.200 --> 0:06:05.960 years back with Felipe Calderon, an ex president of Mexico 0:06:06.000 --> 0:06:08.599 and like by far one of the worst in the 0:06:08.760 --> 0:06:12.160 country's history, and not like just. 0:06:12.560 --> 0:06:15.159 Oh I saw you walking in the street. She was 0:06:15.200 --> 0:06:18.760 at a book signing. It was not a casual encounter. 0:06:18.880 --> 0:06:23.320 It was a clear sign of admiration. And it's been 0:06:23.360 --> 0:06:28.520 more than confirmed since then that her political ambitions lie 0:06:28.560 --> 0:06:37.120 with the PAN, the farthest right mainstream political party in Mexico. 0:06:37.560 --> 0:06:40.320 This political alliance between the Turfs and the right has 0:06:40.400 --> 0:06:44.560 benefits for both sides. The Turfs gained funding institutional backing 0:06:44.680 --> 0:06:47.520 for their war against trans people. The right gained a 0:06:47.560 --> 0:06:50.640 way to attack the vaguely center left Mexican President Andrea's 0:06:50.680 --> 0:06:55.000 Manuel Lopez overdoor by blaming him and trans people from 0:06:55.000 --> 0:06:58.600 Mexico's horrific wave of femicides while distracting from its actual 0:06:58.680 --> 0:07:03.880 sources durn the War on drugs. Mexico's transpopulation, however, gained 0:07:03.880 --> 0:07:05.640 a new Western educated threat. 0:07:05.839 --> 0:07:09.120 When I say the radical feminism was a complete import 0:07:09.840 --> 0:07:13.720 it's from its very beginning. In the For a long while, 0:07:13.760 --> 0:07:17.320 there was like one turf in Mexico and she was 0:07:17.640 --> 0:07:21.720 She's called jian Maria Yoyotel. Don't even try to pronounce 0:07:21.720 --> 0:07:23.640 her name. I don't think she can even pronounce her 0:07:23.680 --> 0:07:26.800 name because she's white as hell and she always dresses 0:07:26.840 --> 0:07:29.520 like she's a fucking Rachel dollars hell from Mexico. 0:07:29.600 --> 0:07:36.240 Yeah, music irony that the first originary turf in Mexico 0:07:36.440 --> 0:07:39.720 is also the Mexican Raciel doll as well, right, because she. 0:07:39.720 --> 0:07:42.920 Went abroad and was like the only Mexican everyone knew. 0:07:43.000 --> 0:07:45.440 So even though she's white as hell and has blue eyes, 0:07:45.920 --> 0:07:50.680 she started wearing some Coachella motherfucking ass feathers and shit. 0:07:51.160 --> 0:07:55.600 Right, yeah, I've seen I've seen these pictures. It's it is, 0:07:55.680 --> 0:07:59.920 it is like it is. It is the Mexican ver 0:08:00.440 --> 0:08:02.480 of and not even just the beas version. It is 0:08:02.520 --> 0:08:04.920 the Mexican version of those people at Cochella who like 0:08:05.200 --> 0:08:09.040 wear indigenous headdresses who are just like just like look 0:08:09.120 --> 0:08:15.800 look like they're descended from like Hydrik Himbler or something incredible, and. 0:08:15.760 --> 0:08:19.800 Like she's she has like she has like half French, 0:08:19.840 --> 0:08:22.440 half Spanish name and she changed it to a half 0:08:22.480 --> 0:08:26.440 Maya half Nato name. It's growth. So this this person 0:08:26.440 --> 0:08:29.120 has been active since the seventies. Right, she went to 0:08:29.640 --> 0:08:33.560 she was present in the first Pride in Mexico and 0:08:33.080 --> 0:08:36.920 uh she that was that was also the two year 0:08:36.960 --> 0:08:42.320 anniversary of the sixty eight massacre. So Pride was from 0:08:42.360 --> 0:08:45.760 the start really leftist here in Mexico, but it also 0:08:45.840 --> 0:08:50.480 had these kind of people the who who went to 0:08:51.360 --> 0:08:55.760 the UK, friends and the United States. And I think 0:08:56.840 --> 0:09:03.160 she was there when uh Is Raymond was like sending 0:09:03.320 --> 0:09:08.920 her friends with guns to threatened trans women, right, so 0:09:10.160 --> 0:09:13.959 that's she. She was there when the turf Wars were 0:09:14.760 --> 0:09:18.839 at at the highest point during the seventies and then 0:09:18.920 --> 0:09:24.640 came back and she participated in a lot of history 0:09:24.640 --> 0:09:29.680 of Mexican feminism. But the time she came back in 0:09:29.720 --> 0:09:34.240 twenty sixteen with that letter with that backing because she 0:09:34.840 --> 0:09:38.160 is also close to Jenny's Raymond with the Coalition and 0:09:38.240 --> 0:09:45.360 against Trafficking in women who the Coalition against Traffiican, the 0:09:45.400 --> 0:09:49.600 Coalition against Traffickan and Women cat w has a lot 0:09:49.600 --> 0:09:56.160 of After the turf Wars, they went underground in the 0:09:56.440 --> 0:09:58.800 in academia and the universities right because they were no 0:09:58.840 --> 0:10:02.840 longer accepted, but they were in the process of building 0:10:03.040 --> 0:10:09.240 NGOs that could globally affect policy on UH, specifically sex 0:10:09.280 --> 0:10:12.880 work and trans rites. And you can tell that John 0:10:12.920 --> 0:10:16.719 Maria saw that that was her only opportunity to resurface 0:10:17.440 --> 0:10:21.040 UH and to make her seventies as she saw that 0:10:21.080 --> 0:10:25.199 the seventies redven discourse was retro now and so she 0:10:25.320 --> 0:10:29.600 became like this UH found founding matriarch for the new 0:10:29.640 --> 0:10:34.679 generation of transfos, one of them which is Laura Lequana, 0:10:34.679 --> 0:10:39.439 who is part of FEMBA and the GEH. Maria and 0:10:39.559 --> 0:10:43.120 Lequana were not faced at all by the accusations of 0:10:43.840 --> 0:10:48.000 aligned with the reactionaries because they know their history, they 0:10:48.040 --> 0:10:50.040 know where they come from, and they know that this 0:10:50.200 --> 0:10:56.840 is how Darkin survived, This is how UH, how Sheila 0:10:56.920 --> 0:10:59.559 Jefferies and Jennie Raymond survived. This is where you get 0:10:59.559 --> 0:11:05.760 the fucking in. Jean Maria and Brussel mar turned the 0:11:05.840 --> 0:11:11.880 whole environment around them into these uh well these serve questions. 0:11:12.080 --> 0:11:16.040 The only two issues that we talk about nowadays in 0:11:16.160 --> 0:11:22.400 Mexican feminism are are precedent and trans people. It's kind 0:11:22.400 --> 0:11:24.880 of gross Jesus. 0:11:25.640 --> 0:11:30.240 And that like remember, like there's only a handful of 0:11:30.240 --> 0:11:34.560 states that have legalized abortion. There's femicides happening all the time, 0:11:35.200 --> 0:11:41.880 and but we're we continue to debate these two issues 0:11:42.000 --> 0:11:44.320 over and over and over again like a feedback group, 0:11:44.840 --> 0:11:48.000 and like, as trans people, we don't have any choice 0:11:48.040 --> 0:11:51.800 because we're the targets of this right and it's not 0:11:52.520 --> 0:11:57.880 it's not an academic debate. Last fall, there was some 0:11:59.720 --> 0:12:03.080 tar who had taken over a public park to set 0:12:03.120 --> 0:12:07.160 up their separatist space and there was a disabled CIS 0:12:07.200 --> 0:12:11.880 woman and her trans girlfriend who are denied entergy at 0:12:11.880 --> 0:12:17.040 the park and threatened with tasers. And so when they're 0:12:17.080 --> 0:12:23.160 taking over these public spaces and using violence to defend them, 0:12:23.160 --> 0:12:25.880 because the next week there was a protest over this 0:12:26.760 --> 0:12:31.800 and there they taste a trans man and it's like 0:12:31.840 --> 0:12:35.280 this is like a public park, like of course we 0:12:35.360 --> 0:12:46.640 have to defend ourselves. 0:12:46.640 --> 0:12:51.319 The Coalition Against Trafficking in Women for kat w an 0:12:51.320 --> 0:12:54.959 International Anti Sex worker group, which provided a refuge for 0:12:55.040 --> 0:12:58.320 white TERFs driven from mainstream feminism in their home countries, 0:12:58.640 --> 0:13:01.360 has been a major source of terf influence in Latin America. 0:13:02.120 --> 0:13:04.760 The reason there is so much important of this ideology 0:13:05.360 --> 0:13:10.120 towards radical feminists in Mexico, it's that they needed something 0:13:10.160 --> 0:13:14.120 to say and something to do and something to fill 0:13:14.200 --> 0:13:19.960 the void in organizing and in NGOs. And the people 0:13:20.000 --> 0:13:24.640 who stepped up were Jenny's Raymond's cat W Right, the 0:13:25.480 --> 0:13:30.120 Collition against Affian and Women who since the nineties spent 0:13:30.920 --> 0:13:36.080 ah a decade and a half building contacts in the 0:13:36.320 --> 0:13:43.319 Indie un in the oas in several international organisms to 0:13:43.360 --> 0:13:46.120 extend their influence across the whole content and specifically in 0:13:46.160 --> 0:13:51.679 Latin America. And you can see this affecting stuff like 0:13:51.720 --> 0:13:55.960 stuff like Venezuela where they broke up sex worker unions 0:13:56.320 --> 0:14:02.600 two to with the the right and in Mexico. The 0:14:02.640 --> 0:14:07.319 founding leader of the Mexican branch of cat W, Teresa Ujoa, 0:14:07.760 --> 0:14:12.040 used to be a UN employee, specifically it's drug and 0:14:12.160 --> 0:14:16.680 crime segment and before she was like a radical feminist, 0:14:16.920 --> 0:14:23.040 she used to conduct drug raids in Japa's and Yeah 0:14:23.160 --> 0:14:27.680 and after that she became the founding member of w 0:14:27.840 --> 0:14:32.560 Latin American and the Caribbean. And with Jennie Raymond, they 0:14:33.560 --> 0:14:36.520 you can see them go together to the nineteen ninety 0:14:36.560 --> 0:14:41.840 five Beijing Conference on Women and they influenced, like they 0:14:42.720 --> 0:14:45.280 were a big part of why gender is not recognized 0:14:45.280 --> 0:14:48.360 as a social construct by the UN. They allied with 0:14:48.440 --> 0:14:52.080 the Holy See, with the representative from the Vatican in 0:14:52.120 --> 0:14:55.800 the UN, got together with a couple of radical feminists 0:14:55.880 --> 0:14:58.520 and pushed back against gender being recognized as a social 0:14:58.600 --> 0:15:04.360 construct nineteen ninety five. So that's the level of influence 0:15:04.400 --> 0:15:09.440 these groups had in Mexico. These groups, which morphed into 0:15:09.480 --> 0:15:15.280 the cap W supported the Warren Rocks from the get go. 0:15:16.480 --> 0:15:22.920 They were very in some of the biggest events inaugurating 0:15:22.920 --> 0:15:26.400 the Warren Drugs. They were present right there. Because if 0:15:26.440 --> 0:15:30.760 you're fighting drug trafficking, it's very easy to just sleep 0:15:30.800 --> 0:15:33.960 the word human right there. Right, No politician is gonna 0:15:33.960 --> 0:15:37.040 say no. They all fucking love to say, yeah, I'm 0:15:37.280 --> 0:15:42.600 hardened on human trafficking. And the way that showed itself 0:15:42.720 --> 0:15:46.840 was just targeting trans sex workers and migrant sex workers 0:15:48.440 --> 0:15:51.640 and with that and that feeding the agenda of Jennie's 0:15:51.680 --> 0:15:55.880 Raymond perfectly. Sila Jeffries gotta basically survived the whole two 0:15:55.920 --> 0:16:01.880 thousands on writing garbage for reports for the UN. Most 0:16:01.920 --> 0:16:05.640 of her published works during the two thousands and early 0:16:05.840 --> 0:16:16.320 twenty tens is stuff paid for Cadolu and they in 0:16:16.360 --> 0:16:19.760 twenty sixteen they started pushing for more and more anti 0:16:19.800 --> 0:16:23.280 trans legislation worldwide because they could see the writing on 0:16:23.280 --> 0:16:29.360 the world right. They were behind the Women's Declaration. The 0:16:29.920 --> 0:16:33.520 Shila Jeffers is not okay. She is part of Cadoli. 0:16:33.640 --> 0:16:37.360 She's I think Cadouble Australia. She has her own other 0:16:37.440 --> 0:16:40.880 collectic called Space International, which is behind Foster Sesta by 0:16:40.880 --> 0:16:44.160 the way in the US, where she allied with a 0:16:44.200 --> 0:16:50.080 couple of conservative sheriffs to write that legislation. So we 0:16:50.120 --> 0:16:55.040 could go on and on. How like people that read 0:16:55.160 --> 0:16:59.520 our trans issues think are gone and forgotten by history. Right, 0:16:59.840 --> 0:17:02.200 The authors of these horrible books that haunt us to 0:17:02.240 --> 0:17:06.200 this day are still active, and not just in the US. 0:17:06.200 --> 0:17:09.720 They're active in Mexico, in the UK, in France, in 0:17:09.840 --> 0:17:16.520 South Africa, in Korea. Korea is huge in I think 0:17:16.560 --> 0:17:19.520 I would say Korea is has as big a problem 0:17:19.520 --> 0:17:23.199 as Mexico and the UK. We just don't talk to 0:17:23.240 --> 0:17:25.760 them as much and we can't realize that. But if 0:17:25.760 --> 0:17:30.000 you check them the languages that have signed the Shila 0:17:30.040 --> 0:17:35.000 Jeffers Declaration against Trands People, which is as specifically generocidal declaration, 0:17:35.440 --> 0:17:38.480 it doesn't stop at the legislation. It wants to exterminate 0:17:38.560 --> 0:17:42.639 us outright. Yeah, and most of them, you are going 0:17:42.720 --> 0:17:44.639 to see a lot of Brazilian flags, a lot of 0:17:44.680 --> 0:17:48.520 Mexican flags, a lot of Korean flags, even more than 0:17:49.320 --> 0:17:53.080 United States flags. And if you track the USA flags, 0:17:53.320 --> 0:17:57.200 it's mostly like weird randos that have yoga classes and shit. 0:17:57.359 --> 0:18:00.600 It's not relevant politicians. But if you track the other countries, 0:18:00.720 --> 0:18:03.040 you're going to find some of the biggest collectives in 0:18:03.119 --> 0:18:07.040 their own countries. You're gonna find or just spooks, right, 0:18:07.080 --> 0:18:09.520 You're gonna find a lot of people who have really 0:18:09.520 --> 0:18:12.280 weird careers that spend a lot of time in Italy 0:18:12.280 --> 0:18:21.040 and Uganda. It's it's a never ending ribbit whole of 0:18:21.400 --> 0:18:26.520 of of spooks, of conservatives, of has been feminists that 0:18:26.600 --> 0:18:30.040 have regranted it as NGOs to get money from those 0:18:30.040 --> 0:18:35.240 groups and directed towards breaking up trans rights, towards affecting 0:18:35.440 --> 0:18:40.439 sex workers, towards breaking unions, breaking student movements. It's a 0:18:40.480 --> 0:18:46.800 global movement that is birthed by conservative thought, but getting 0:18:46.880 --> 0:18:49.600 more and more reactionary and more and more organized as 0:18:49.680 --> 0:18:50.320 time goes by. 0:18:50.960 --> 0:18:55.040 That international transphobic movement has increasingly found purchase in the US. 0:18:55.560 --> 0:18:58.879 I spoke to Lee Leaville and Kai Shiver's, two members 0:18:58.920 --> 0:19:02.080 of Health Liberation Now with intimate experience with the turf 0:19:02.119 --> 0:19:07.720 movement who spent years particulously documenting its rise. So my 0:19:07.800 --> 0:19:12.360 first question is, can y'all explain what Wolf actually is? 0:19:12.640 --> 0:19:15.720 And I guess subsequent to that, what their relationship to 0:19:15.760 --> 0:19:16.920 hands across the aisle is. 0:19:19.680 --> 0:19:27.840 Yeah, so Wolf is They're a transphobic feminist group with 0:19:28.080 --> 0:19:33.159 at this point extensive ties to right wing organizations. They've 0:19:33.680 --> 0:19:38.639 worked with Family Policy Alliance here Atage Foundation, Alliance Defending Freedom, Concerned, 0:19:38.640 --> 0:19:41.760 Wouin for America, Family Research Culture, among others. 0:19:43.640 --> 0:19:44.359 But they. 0:19:46.240 --> 0:19:50.879 They got their start and they started back in twenty 0:19:51.000 --> 0:19:56.240 thirteen around when they're founded by Lear Keith, who also 0:19:56.320 --> 0:19:59.000 was one of the leaders of Deep Green Resistance, and 0:19:59.040 --> 0:20:03.640 she basically got like kind of run out of anarchists 0:20:03.640 --> 0:20:06.560 and environmentalist groups and then kind of like went over 0:20:06.720 --> 0:20:11.040 to established like turf communities to try and recruit there. 0:20:11.640 --> 0:20:14.119 So they sort of like started out trying to like 0:20:14.200 --> 0:20:19.200 recruit from these like older turf and transphobic lesbian communities. 0:20:19.720 --> 0:20:24.760 And then after Trump got elected and you know, the 0:20:24.840 --> 0:20:27.760 conservative Christians on the far right became more mobilized and 0:20:27.800 --> 0:20:31.320 more empowered. They kind of like rebranded themselves and were like, oh, 0:20:31.400 --> 0:20:34.040 let's form alliances with these right wing groups, and they 0:20:34.080 --> 0:20:39.199 kind of like traded their sort of like like crunchy 0:20:39.440 --> 0:20:43.960 lesbian feminists like like image for like Kara Danski, who 0:20:44.200 --> 0:20:49.119 like you know, is a straight, fairly feminine looking woman 0:20:49.240 --> 0:20:52.480 who used to work for the CLU and like a Democrat, 0:20:52.640 --> 0:20:54.960 and like you know, she's way more presentable to like 0:20:55.000 --> 0:20:58.800 a conservative audience. You know, by working with the right, 0:20:58.960 --> 0:21:02.600 then they have access to like money and power and 0:21:02.640 --> 0:21:03.639 they can get easier for the. 0:21:03.640 --> 0:21:04.840 Get on the media. 0:21:05.000 --> 0:21:08.040 Like Kidansky is no longer with Wolf, but like she 0:21:08.200 --> 0:21:10.359 was with them for years and still has relations like 0:21:10.359 --> 0:21:11.879 like good relations with them, and she's been on the 0:21:11.920 --> 0:21:17.480 Tucker Carlson Show like many times. So I think one 0:21:17.520 --> 0:21:21.679 of the important pieces when it comes to understanding like 0:21:22.400 --> 0:21:28.720 how this relationship with the rights started. So in late 0:21:28.760 --> 0:21:34.280 twenty sixteen, Wolf put forward their filing against the US 0:21:34.359 --> 0:21:37.560 Department of Justice and US Department of Education, right, and 0:21:37.560 --> 0:21:40.679 they were going up against aspects of like trying to 0:21:40.720 --> 0:21:45.359 reform Title NIND to include gender identity, you know, to 0:21:46.160 --> 0:21:50.840 protect folks who need to be able to use the like. 0:21:50.880 --> 0:21:53.159 Women's restroom or locker room or whatever. 0:21:53.240 --> 0:21:55.360 Right, And this is the case that they ended up 0:21:55.480 --> 0:21:58.479 getting some of that ADA funding for. So it's like 0:21:58.520 --> 0:22:01.720 one of the first official seeds I guess of the 0:22:02.320 --> 0:22:06.320 direct collaboration ended up happening. Those a lot of that 0:22:06.320 --> 0:22:08.800 stuff did eventually end up getting leaked, and then they 0:22:08.800 --> 0:22:13.040 started doing some more official collaborations just a few months 0:22:13.119 --> 0:22:16.439 later when they were working with like Family Policy Alliance 0:22:16.840 --> 0:22:20.840 to file amicus briefs against Gavin Grimm again on a 0:22:20.840 --> 0:22:22.800 bathroom case. Yeah, they took something like I think it 0:22:22.800 --> 0:22:25.720 was like fifteen thousand dollars from the Alliance depending Freedom, 0:22:25.760 --> 0:22:28.360 which is one of the main like right wing groups 0:22:28.400 --> 0:22:31.200 like like trying to pass all these like anti TRAMS bills, 0:22:31.240 --> 0:22:34.359 like going after pediatric transition and trans girls and in 0:22:34.440 --> 0:22:37.400 them and sports. So they took that money and then yeah, 0:22:37.400 --> 0:22:40.320 then later like I think, like the whole working with 0:22:40.359 --> 0:22:42.680 Family Policy Alliance, I believe was the first time they 0:22:42.760 --> 0:22:45.560 like publicly allied with with the White Ring group. 0:22:45.680 --> 0:22:48.480 I think, so that happened in January of twenty seventeen. 0:22:48.840 --> 0:22:51.879 Yeah, and then they've just sort of like, yeah, like 0:22:52.040 --> 0:22:55.240 they also were involved with like the amicus brief against 0:22:55.320 --> 0:22:59.960 was it Amy Stephens another Supreme Court case. I can't remember, 0:23:01.160 --> 0:23:03.720 it wouldn't surprise me. And like members of both have 0:23:03.720 --> 0:23:07.439 appeared on like Heritage Foundation panels. They helped like release 0:23:07.480 --> 0:23:10.680 a parent resource guide and an anti transparent resource guide 0:23:10.680 --> 0:23:15.000 that was also sponsored by like Heritage Foundation, Family Policy Alliance. 0:23:15.640 --> 0:23:18.720 This this this is very similar to almost exactly what 0:23:18.760 --> 0:23:21.200 you see in Mexico, with just sort of slightly less 0:23:21.200 --> 0:23:24.600 physical violence, which yeah, it's it's a lot of you know. 0:23:24.640 --> 0:23:26.879 And the other thing is that these are to a 0:23:26.960 --> 0:23:29.439 large extent exactly the same organizations. And that was one 0:23:29.440 --> 0:23:30.800 of the other things I want to talk about was 0:23:30.800 --> 0:23:34.360 the influence of Sheila Jeffries and the Women's Declaration, which 0:23:34.359 --> 0:23:39.800 has been all over this whole movement. 0:23:40.600 --> 0:23:42.399 Yeah. The one thing to point out, so like you know, 0:23:42.520 --> 0:23:46.200 the Women's Declaration International is in this in the US 0:23:46.440 --> 0:23:50.160 is led by Kardanski who doo she like basically like left. 0:23:50.160 --> 0:23:51.680 She worked at Wolf for a long time and still 0:23:51.680 --> 0:23:54.240 has lots of connections with them, is on good terms 0:23:54.240 --> 0:23:56.679 with them, but she like left and now is like 0:23:56.800 --> 0:24:00.359 working with Women's Declaration International of the US branch. So 0:24:01.119 --> 0:24:04.159 and also she winds up having kind of like a 0:24:04.200 --> 0:24:06.840 foot in both worlds at the same time too, So 0:24:06.960 --> 0:24:13.600 like she'll like the US chapter of Women's Declaration International 0:24:13.760 --> 0:24:17.640 previously like Women's Team in Rights campaign before they had 0:24:17.640 --> 0:24:19.880 to rebrand, they would. 0:24:23.520 --> 0:24:26.960 But if if you if you read this, yeah. 0:24:27.400 --> 0:24:29.679 Yeah, exactly exactly. 0:24:31.160 --> 0:24:35.880 So what what ends up happening is that Karen Danski 0:24:36.400 --> 0:24:43.560 will either like have the chapter sponsor particular events or 0:24:43.640 --> 0:24:47.760 she herself will become actively involved in the formation of 0:24:47.800 --> 0:24:51.760 the events, right, which we saw happen with women pick 0:24:51.760 --> 0:24:55.399 at d C last year where they were parking themselves 0:24:55.400 --> 0:25:01.120 outside of that was like it was a that was 0:25:01.200 --> 0:25:04.480 that was a whole big thing. Oh god, it was 0:25:04.480 --> 0:25:07.680 a purchase that happened on International Women's Day to protest 0:25:07.680 --> 0:25:12.840 the Equality Act. Yeah, NBC, it's not like it's people's 0:25:12.880 --> 0:25:15.639 first time dealing with the Equality Act either. 0:25:15.880 --> 0:25:17.359 I mean, like so. 0:25:19.280 --> 0:25:22.159 Prior prior to that point which and this starts to 0:25:22.880 --> 0:25:28.080 go into the like hands across the Aisle Coalition because 0:25:28.119 --> 0:25:33.159 they were actively involved in opposing the Equality Act as well. 0:25:33.680 --> 0:25:38.560 So to kind of roll back a little bit the 0:25:39.080 --> 0:25:40.520 hands across the Aisle Coalition. 0:25:40.680 --> 0:25:42.240 This was something that started. 0:25:42.000 --> 0:25:46.719 Developing in early twenty seventeen, you know, not that long 0:25:46.800 --> 0:25:52.440 after Wolfe started building the more direct relationships with the Right, 0:25:52.960 --> 0:25:56.560 and so that the people of this coalition would have 0:25:56.760 --> 0:25:59.320 like you would have members of the Right itself, and 0:25:59.440 --> 0:26:03.080 in the pro sets of that, towards the beginning of 0:26:03.400 --> 0:26:09.840 twenty nineteen, in May, they filed this joint letter to 0:26:09.880 --> 0:26:15.119 the House of Representative Speaker Nancy Pelosi to oppose things 0:26:15.320 --> 0:26:20.119 like the Equality Act, and they did so alongside with 0:26:20.960 --> 0:26:26.040 Natasha Chart representing wolf Concerned Women for America, American College 0:26:26.040 --> 0:26:29.280 of Pediatricians, Family Research Council, you know, a whole bunch 0:26:29.280 --> 0:26:31.960 of really just awful names, and they're, oh, yeah, the 0:26:32.000 --> 0:26:33.760 adyf was involved on that one too. Yeah. 0:26:34.720 --> 0:26:36.720 It's really the rose gallery of all of the people 0:26:36.800 --> 0:26:40.600 who were anti gay marriage until still are but have 0:26:40.840 --> 0:26:42.680 downplayed it. And yeah, all the people who let the 0:26:42.680 --> 0:26:45.560 anti gay marriage campaigns, all of the sort of weird 0:26:45.640 --> 0:27:00.280 right wing pseudo medical bodies. The next thing what it 0:27:00.359 --> 0:27:03.200 to ask about is what's been happening in the last 0:27:03.240 --> 0:27:06.119 couple of years with the fusion, Because you already have 0:27:06.320 --> 0:27:10.879 your your alliance between the Turfs and the evangelicals, but 0:27:11.040 --> 0:27:15.080 in the last couple of years we've seen a I 0:27:15.119 --> 0:27:17.240 don't know if if full scale is the right term 0:27:17.480 --> 0:27:19.920 to use for, but we've seen a merger of this 0:27:20.680 --> 0:27:23.639 with Save the Children Eqanon stuff. I'm wondering if you 0:27:23.760 --> 0:27:27.200 can talk about that. 0:27:25.760 --> 0:27:26.440 That's okay. 0:27:26.480 --> 0:27:30.360 So that's an interesting one because, like I've I've been 0:27:30.359 --> 0:27:35.600 digging into the timeline of this stuff extensively. It's like 0:27:35.720 --> 0:27:40.640 I've got hundreds hundreds of listings, trying to figure out 0:27:40.640 --> 0:27:44.080 where different pieces are coming from and trying to understand. 0:27:43.840 --> 0:27:45.720