WEBVTT - Week in Tech: Do You Share Your Location? 0:00:13.800 --> 0:00:17.400 From Kaleidoscope and iHeart podcasts. This is tech stuff. 0:00:17.560 --> 0:00:19.520 I'm as Voloscian and I'm Cara Price. 0:00:20.000 --> 0:00:23.920 Today we'll get into the headlines this week, including Meta's 0:00:24.200 --> 0:00:28.440 multi hundred million dollar hiring spree and why gen Z 0:00:28.800 --> 0:00:34.199 always have locations sharing on Then on chatting me, he 0:00:34.440 --> 0:00:34.959 gives me. 0:00:35.000 --> 0:00:38.600 A tailored meal plan, so like what I should eat, 0:00:39.159 --> 0:00:42.839 how I should eat, when I should eat bananas some nights, yeah, 0:00:42.960 --> 0:00:43.519 some nights no. 0:00:43.760 --> 0:00:46.680 It's kind of crazy, all of that. On the Weekend Tech. 0:00:47.120 --> 0:00:49.040 It's Friday, July twenty fifth. 0:00:55.560 --> 0:00:59.880 Hello Cara, Hello Azzie. I just want to say first 0:01:00.120 --> 0:01:04.039 rest and darkness to the other Ozzy Osbourne who died 0:01:04.080 --> 0:01:07.479 this week, another brit and that is where I find 0:01:07.520 --> 0:01:08.000 you today. 0:01:08.200 --> 0:01:10.679 Indeed, I'm in London and I was a little bit 0:01:10.720 --> 0:01:14.679 nervous to come here because Europe's been experiencing this crazy 0:01:14.720 --> 0:01:18.120 heat wave and most of London has no AC. 0:01:18.319 --> 0:01:21.320 So you've been schitzing, as they say. 0:01:21.120 --> 0:01:23.319 Well, actually the heat wave broke, but it has been 0:01:23.360 --> 0:01:25.880 a very very hot summer here. And you and I 0:01:25.920 --> 0:01:28.440 talked about Wimbledon a couple of weeks ago and Ai 0:01:28.560 --> 0:01:31.600 line judges. But some of the other interesting scenes from 0:01:31.640 --> 0:01:33.959 this year's Wimbledon, which I haven't seen before, were people 0:01:34.080 --> 0:01:37.440 passing out in the stands from heat exhaustion and players 0:01:37.760 --> 0:01:38.760 riding to their rescue. 0:01:38.840 --> 0:01:45.040 The players are like, you're passing out. My memory and 0:01:45.280 --> 0:01:49.120 unfortunate experience of really not just London, but most of 0:01:49.160 --> 0:01:52.480 Europe is that they lack AC. And as a kid 0:01:52.520 --> 0:01:56.240 who grew up in the Northeast during the summer, AC 0:01:56.560 --> 0:02:01.400 is the premium, I do wonder or in a warmer climate, 0:02:01.480 --> 0:02:03.160 how does this continue to actually work? 0:02:03.640 --> 0:02:05.400 Yeah, I mean I think the short answer is it 0:02:05.440 --> 0:02:07.880 may not. The Financial Times recently had an op ed 0:02:08.400 --> 0:02:11.240 with the title Britain and Europe need to get serious 0:02:11.280 --> 0:02:14.400 about air conditioning, and the article points out that, you know, 0:02:14.440 --> 0:02:18.400 in a changing climate, European cities are experiencing more intense heat, 0:02:18.680 --> 0:02:21.360 more frequently and for longer periods of time than just 0:02:21.440 --> 0:02:24.000 ten years ago. And also the article points out that 0:02:24.080 --> 0:02:26.959 AC is not just about comfort, it's no longer a luxury. 0:02:27.320 --> 0:02:29.600 There are some pretty interesting stats in the piece about 0:02:29.600 --> 0:02:34.240 how being too hot indoors affect sleep, cognition and even 0:02:34.280 --> 0:02:35.639 correlates with mortality. 0:02:35.960 --> 0:02:38.080 You know, I do notice a huge difference in my 0:02:38.160 --> 0:02:41.400 ability to sleep and even think when I'm hot, like, 0:02:42.160 --> 0:02:43.720 I don't think people should work in the summer it's 0:02:43.720 --> 0:02:44.160 too hot. 0:02:44.280 --> 0:02:47.440 Well, the article says that when indoor temperatures rise above 0:02:47.480 --> 0:02:52.480 seventy five degrees fahrenheit, sleep duration and quality fall rapidly, and, 0:02:52.639 --> 0:02:56.160 according to studies, so desirability to perform well in tests. 0:02:56.720 --> 0:02:58.600 So it's a blessing to you and our listeners that 0:02:58.639 --> 0:03:00.920 it's a cool week in London and I can think 0:03:01.080 --> 0:03:01.880 relatively straight. 0:03:02.160 --> 0:03:03.160 You're always brilliant. 0:03:03.320 --> 0:03:03.760 But I. 0:03:05.280 --> 0:03:07.480 A little bit earlier you mentioned more tatic it's a 0:03:07.480 --> 0:03:09.760 matter of life and death. Is that really true in 0:03:09.840 --> 0:03:11.000 terms of AC and cooling. 0:03:11.280 --> 0:03:12.799 I was a little bit surprised by that as well. 0:03:12.840 --> 0:03:16.920 But according to the FT, between two thousand and twenty nineteen, 0:03:17.760 --> 0:03:22.000 an average of eighty three thousand Western Europeans per year 0:03:22.520 --> 0:03:25.120 lost their lives due to extreme heat, compared with just 0:03:25.160 --> 0:03:27.360 twenty thousand North Americans, who are much more likely to 0:03:27.400 --> 0:03:31.160 live in buildings with AC. The penetration rate of air 0:03:31.160 --> 0:03:34.600 conditioning is ninety percent in the US and only nineteen 0:03:34.680 --> 0:03:35.720 percent in Europe. 0:03:35.840 --> 0:03:38.119 I was going to say, you know, I never understood 0:03:38.120 --> 0:03:41.720 why Europeans don't adapt to cooling systems and buildings yeah. 0:03:41.720 --> 0:03:44.680 I mean there's a kind of cultural resistance because it 0:03:44.720 --> 0:03:47.680 uses so much energy. But of course, with a changing climate, 0:03:47.720 --> 0:03:52.040 what was once seen as an extravagance becomes a potential necessity. 0:03:52.560 --> 0:03:55.839 And the FT article makes the point that new developments 0:03:55.880 --> 0:03:59.360 in more efficient solar can actually potentially offset some of 0:03:59.400 --> 0:04:03.400 the new demands of more widely deployed ac you know, 0:04:03.440 --> 0:04:05.960 I was particularly struck by this FT article because it 0:04:06.120 --> 0:04:10.680 referenced Li Quan Yu, who is known as the father 0:04:10.840 --> 0:04:14.120 of modern Singapore, and he was often asked this question, 0:04:14.520 --> 0:04:19.279 how did you transform was effectively a fishing village into 0:04:19.400 --> 0:04:22.480 one of the most important commercial hubs in Asia and 0:04:22.520 --> 0:04:26.400 the world, And he would say, well, two things. First, 0:04:27.040 --> 0:04:31.839 multi ethnic tolerance and diverse society. Second, air conditioning. 0:04:32.120 --> 0:04:35.040 Britain seems to have one but not the other. I mean, 0:04:35.080 --> 0:04:35.960 maybe that's the key. 0:04:36.120 --> 0:04:38.760 Well, it's funny. We host this podcast called tech Stuff 0:04:38.880 --> 0:04:41.800 and so we have this, you know, strong bias to 0:04:41.839 --> 0:04:45.799 cover new tech stuff, new advanced in AI, new advances 0:04:45.839 --> 0:04:48.680 in geneality and synthetic biology. But one of the things 0:04:48.680 --> 0:04:52.279 this story really made me think about is how the 0:04:52.320 --> 0:04:56.200 adoption of existing tech stuff can be just as important 0:04:56.320 --> 0:04:59.400 as the innovation of new tech stuff, and I think 0:04:59.640 --> 0:05:02.000 A really is a perfect example of that. 0:05:02.360 --> 0:05:04.120 All I can think about, you know, when we talk 0:05:04.160 --> 0:05:06.680 about AI a lot on this show, is that energy 0:05:06.720 --> 0:05:10.440 consumption will likely increase if AI continues at its current pace. 0:05:10.800 --> 0:05:14.119 I mean, if the Silicon Valley overlords have their way. 0:05:14.760 --> 0:05:17.080 And this week in Silicon Valley there has been some 0:05:17.720 --> 0:05:21.960 quite frankly delicious drama in the battle for AI supremacy. 0:05:22.360 --> 0:05:24.240 You have not shut up about this story since you 0:05:24.320 --> 0:05:26.000 read it, and so now I need to hear about it. 0:05:26.200 --> 0:05:29.960 Yeah. So, basically, the most powerful CEOs in the world 0:05:30.120 --> 0:05:33.680 are in an all out war for AI talent. This 0:05:33.880 --> 0:05:38.440 is collecting Pokemon cards, but where the stakes are hundreds 0:05:38.440 --> 0:05:41.160 and hundred and hundreds of millions of dollars, and Mark 0:05:41.240 --> 0:05:45.960 Zuckerberg is leading the charge and is absolutely determined, it seems, 0:05:46.200 --> 0:05:47.039 to collect them all. 0:05:47.520 --> 0:05:49.680 I don't really think of Meta as an AI company. 0:05:49.760 --> 0:05:53.040 I think much too Zuckerberg's dismay. 0:05:52.880 --> 0:05:56.640 Well, exactly right, So hence the recruitment push. Metro announced 0:05:56.720 --> 0:05:59.919 last month they are starting an AI research lab dedicated 0:06:00.160 --> 0:06:04.400 pursuing quote superintelligence, meaning, of course, an AI system that 0:06:04.480 --> 0:06:07.400 exceeds the power of the human brain. But until this point, 0:06:07.600 --> 0:06:10.640 Meta has spent around one hundred times more on AI 0:06:10.880 --> 0:06:14.440 hardware and computing power than they have on human labor, 0:06:14.920 --> 0:06:17.520 and according to The Wall Street Journal, Zuckerberg may have 0:06:17.560 --> 0:06:20.160 gotten a wake up call this spring from the chief 0:06:20.200 --> 0:06:23.160 research officer of none other than Open Ai. 0:06:23.680 --> 0:06:25.960 I'm shocked that they even talk to each other, like 0:06:26.000 --> 0:06:29.080 I imagine them meeting in like a covert confessional with 0:06:29.160 --> 0:06:30.920 their faces obscured. 0:06:31.200 --> 0:06:34.680 Well, yes, but the interesting thing about Silicon Valley is 0:06:35.040 --> 0:06:37.719 that's not really how it's worked, at least up until now. 0:06:38.120 --> 0:06:40.560 With all these huge fortunes being made and all of 0:06:40.600 --> 0:06:45.400 these new platform technologies being developed despite intense rivalry, there 0:06:45.440 --> 0:06:48.239 was also this kind of sense that a rising tide 0:06:48.279 --> 0:06:51.920 would lift all boats. I mean, you'll remember Google CEO 0:06:52.120 --> 0:06:55.760 Eric Schmidt was on the board of Apple. LinkedIn founder 0:06:55.880 --> 0:06:58.880 Reid Hoffmann was one of the first investors in Facebook. 0:06:59.240 --> 0:07:02.080 So there's this kind of history of these people being 0:07:02.120 --> 0:07:05.520 in each other's business. And don't forget, I mean, Zuckerberg 0:07:06.080 --> 0:07:09.200 has significant pulls. So when he calls and says that's 0:07:09.240 --> 0:07:12.600 have a coffee, many people answer. So, according to the 0:07:12.600 --> 0:07:16.440 Wall Street Journal story, Zuckerberg hit up Mark Chen, who 0:07:16.560 --> 0:07:20.000 is open AI's chief research officer for a catch up, 0:07:20.480 --> 0:07:24.160 and zuck ended up asking Chen for advice on how 0:07:24.200 --> 0:07:27.280 to improve Meta's generative AI efforts. 0:07:27.520 --> 0:07:29.000 He's like Mark, it's Mark. 0:07:31.040 --> 0:07:35.280 I think Mark Z was calling Mark C for some 0:07:35.280 --> 0:07:38.200 friendly advice, or at least that's how it appeared to 0:07:38.320 --> 0:07:41.320 Chen at the time. So it was Chen who actually 0:07:41.320 --> 0:07:45.040 pointed out to Zuckerberg about how many orders of magnitude 0:07:45.200 --> 0:07:48.480 more Meta was spending on hardware than they were on talent, 0:07:49.440 --> 0:07:53.200 and thus kara an idea was born. Have you heard 0:07:53.200 --> 0:07:54.400 about the list? 0:07:55.320 --> 0:07:59.160 When billionaires make lists, I get very anxious now I 0:07:59.200 --> 0:07:59.960 have not heard about that. 0:08:00.320 --> 0:08:04.240 This is the Christmas list to end all Christmas lists, 0:08:04.400 --> 0:08:07.840 and Zuckerberg apparently spent months compiling it, a list of 0:08:07.880 --> 0:08:11.600 the top AI researchers and engineers from rival AI companies 0:08:11.600 --> 0:08:12.320 and startups. 0:08:12.880 --> 0:08:15.200 Do we have names? Do we know anything? 0:08:15.360 --> 0:08:17.840 We don't have the secret list, but we do know 0:08:17.880 --> 0:08:21.840 who Zuckerberg has either poached or tried to poach, and 0:08:22.160 --> 0:08:25.560 these people are not household names outside of Silicon Valley. 0:08:25.880 --> 0:08:29.840 There is probably, most famously Alexander Wang of Scale AI, 0:08:29.960 --> 0:08:32.280 who will talk a little bit more about, but the 0:08:32.320 --> 0:08:36.679 companies he's raided include Anthropic, Google, DeepMind, Apple, and of 0:08:36.720 --> 0:08:39.880 course open Ai, from which he's pulled at least a 0:08:39.920 --> 0:08:40.920 dozen employees. 0:08:41.400 --> 0:08:43.880 So how is he going about pulling talent from these 0:08:43.880 --> 0:08:45.360 companies and bringing them to Meta? 0:08:45.440 --> 0:08:49.280 Have you heard of something called money? 0:08:49.679 --> 0:08:52.840 Money? Money? Money must be funny, you know. 0:08:52.840 --> 0:08:56.920 A rich man's world. Over the past few weeks, Zuckerberg 0:08:57.000 --> 0:09:00.240 has reportedly offered pay packages worth more than three three 0:09:00.360 --> 0:09:02.680 hundred million dollars over four years. 0:09:03.080 --> 0:09:04.680 That's like pro ball money. 0:09:05.080 --> 0:09:07.559 I mean, this is generational. This is like your grandkids' 0:09:07.640 --> 0:09:10.120 grandkids will never happens easily. 0:09:10.480 --> 0:09:12.840 And also your parents finally being like you know what, 0:09:13.320 --> 0:09:16.440 you sitting in your room all day hit off exactly. 0:09:16.800 --> 0:09:19.679 I'd glad you won the battle to not limit your 0:09:19.679 --> 0:09:23.160 computer time when you're a kid. Also, a lot of 0:09:23.160 --> 0:09:27.000 these offers are so called exploding offers, meaning they expire 0:09:27.040 --> 0:09:30.440 within a few days, so the existing employers have a 0:09:30.520 --> 0:09:33.040 very hard time developing a counter offer. 0:09:34.160 --> 0:09:36.679 So, I mean it makes a lot of sense why 0:09:36.760 --> 0:09:39.600 Silicon Valley is following this so closely. This is this 0:09:39.640 --> 0:09:43.640 is like a real time raid, an employee raid, with 0:09:44.080 --> 0:09:46.640 Mark Zuckerberg sort of pulling the marionette strings. 0:09:46.960 --> 0:09:51.319 And it also potentially signals a massive culture shift in 0:09:51.360 --> 0:09:54.760 Silicon Valley, because, as I mentioned, it's a small place. 0:09:55.240 --> 0:09:58.560 It's a place where up until now people have sort 0:09:58.559 --> 0:10:02.720 of had this sense of of collegiality up to a 0:10:02.800 --> 0:10:07.160 certain point, and it kind of rests on this bedrock 0:10:07.280 --> 0:10:10.240 principle of Silicon Valley, which is this mantra, which is 0:10:10.559 --> 0:10:12.319 be a missionary, not a mercenary. 0:10:12.720 --> 0:10:15.800 That's a shirt that I would see in Times Square. 0:10:16.200 --> 0:10:21.240 But also very startup, b very very culty, startup. 0:10:20.880 --> 0:10:26.000 By absolutely, And the phrase come from one of the 0:10:26.040 --> 0:10:32.400 granddaddy's of VC, John Dare, and he apparently told generations 0:10:32.559 --> 0:10:36.600 entrepreneurs to embrace their inner missionary and start companies where 0:10:36.720 --> 0:10:39.640 quote there's a lust not only for making money, but 0:10:39.679 --> 0:10:43.760 for making meaning, which is the antithesis of mercenary companies, 0:10:43.800 --> 0:10:46.880 where quote the central goal is a lust for making money. 0:10:47.440 --> 0:10:51.440 Open AICEO. Sam Altman apparently leaned into this idea in 0:10:51.600 --> 0:10:56.040 a Slack message that he shared with researchers amidst Zuckerberg's 0:10:56.080 --> 0:10:59.600 talent rate on the company. According to the Journal, Altman said, quote, 0:11:00.080 --> 0:11:03.000 I am proud of how mission oriented our industry is 0:11:03.080 --> 0:11:06.440 as a whole. Of course, there will always be some mercenaries. 0:11:06.960 --> 0:11:09.839 Missionaries will beat mercenaries. Just every day. 0:11:09.840 --> 0:11:11.720 I'm reminded why I shouldn't be on Slack and you 0:11:11.840 --> 0:11:16.680 make me use it, but no, I mean them's fighting words. 0:11:17.080 --> 0:11:21.520 Now. Zuckerberg of course says, no, the money helps, but 0:11:21.600 --> 0:11:25.920 actually that's not you know, just like in your sports analogy, right, 0:11:26.320 --> 0:11:28.480 of course it helps if you offer an athlete one 0:11:28.559 --> 0:11:31.360 hundreds of million dollars to play on the team, but 0:11:31.360 --> 0:11:32.960 they also want to play for the winning team, right, 0:11:32.960 --> 0:11:37.439 These people have an eye on legacy, And Zuckerberg says that, 0:11:37.480 --> 0:11:39.199 you know, in this case, it's this kind of similar 0:11:39.240 --> 0:11:43.800 thing where it's the company's investment in computing power, which 0:11:43.840 --> 0:11:47.160 is actually what's attracting the talent. More computing power means 0:11:47.200 --> 0:11:51.520 more potential AI breakthroughs. And just this month, Zuckerberg took 0:11:51.559 --> 0:11:54.439 to his Facebook page and said that the new venture, 0:11:54.679 --> 0:11:59.199 metas Superintelligence Labs, will have industry leading levels of compute 0:11:59.240 --> 0:12:03.760 and quote by far the greatest compute per researcher. Zakobog 0:12:03.840 --> 0:12:08.120 also created a helpful motion graphic to demonstrate just what 0:12:08.160 --> 0:12:10.120 he means by this. So one of the new data 0:12:10.160 --> 0:12:13.000 centers he's working on is called Hyperion and to show 0:12:13.040 --> 0:12:17.440 its scale, he put the footprint of Hyperion and overlaid 0:12:17.440 --> 0:12:20.400 it on an image of Manhattan, and it basically is 0:12:20.440 --> 0:12:23.600 the same size as a Manhattan. So in essentially it 0:12:23.640 --> 0:12:27.240 shows the metaphor of Godzilla's footprints that. 0:12:27.760 --> 0:12:30.359 I was going to say, did he invent the footprint 0:12:30.440 --> 0:12:33.559 and then backload the footprint into Hyperion. 0:12:34.640 --> 0:12:38.439 Make it so it has the exact lego cutdown of Manhattan, 0:12:38.480 --> 0:12:41.400 so that we can obscure the island with our with 0:12:41.480 --> 0:12:42.679 our grandiose dreams. 0:12:43.240 --> 0:12:46.319 So Zuck's pitch is basically become one of the richest 0:12:46.360 --> 0:12:48.200 people in the world and have access to all the 0:12:48.200 --> 0:12:52.040 best tools to express your vision. I can't imagine how 0:12:52.080 --> 0:12:53.199 Mark Chen is feeling. 0:12:52.960 --> 0:12:57.000 Right now about the advice he gave to Zuk. That's right, yeah, 0:12:57.200 --> 0:12:59.760 open Ai seems to be in a little bit of 0:12:59.760 --> 0:13:03.079 a Here's what Chen wrote on Slack, according to Wall 0:13:03.120 --> 0:13:07.040 Street Journal quote, I feel a visceral feeling right now, 0:13:07.360 --> 0:13:10.640 as if someone had broken into our home and stolen something. 0:13:11.080 --> 0:13:15.520 Please trust that we haven't been sitting idly by. But 0:13:15.559 --> 0:13:20.319 it's not just insurgent behemoths like open Ai. The other 0:13:20.360 --> 0:13:23.200 interesting part of this story is how companies like Meta 0:13:23.600 --> 0:13:27.760 Alphabet and others have been raiding Silicon Valley's top startups 0:13:27.960 --> 0:13:31.800 for their senior leadership. I mentioned Alexander Wang of scale 0:13:31.880 --> 0:13:35.280 Ai earlier, who's going to be running the superintelligence lab. 0:13:35.760 --> 0:13:40.520 Meta actually paid fourteen billion plus dollars for a forty 0:13:40.600 --> 0:13:44.079 nine percent share in scale Ai and to have Wang 0:13:44.360 --> 0:13:46.920 come and work for them. And it's an interesting thing 0:13:47.040 --> 0:13:51.600 where these antitrust laws, which were originally created in order 0:13:51.640 --> 0:13:56.600 to prevent monopolistic powers from stifling competition, have created this strange, 0:13:56.640 --> 0:14:00.160 unintended consequence where in order not to fall foul of 0:14:00.160 --> 0:14:04.760 antitrust law, it is less risky to essentially gut a 0:14:04.840 --> 0:14:07.240 company if it's senior leadership, but leave it kind of 0:14:07.280 --> 0:14:10.080 in a half alive state than it is just to 0:14:10.080 --> 0:14:12.160 buy the company. I'm not saying that's exactly what's happened 0:14:12.200 --> 0:14:15.360 with Scalai. It's still functioning, although it has lost a 0:14:15.440 --> 0:14:18.480 number of clients like Google and others because I don't 0:14:18.480 --> 0:14:20.680 want to be paying Meta. But again it speaks to 0:14:20.720 --> 0:14:23.800 this culture ship which is going on in Silicon Valley 0:14:23.800 --> 0:14:28.560 because there is always this implied contract between employees, investors, 0:14:28.720 --> 0:14:32.160 and founders which is being very disturbed by these big 0:14:32.200 --> 0:14:35.120 money moves by Zuck. So it's an a talent story, 0:14:35.360 --> 0:14:37.640 but it's also about some pretty fundamental changes to the 0:14:37.680 --> 0:14:39.040 culture of the whole of Silicon Valley. 0:14:39.400 --> 0:14:42.960 All this secrecy and scheming feels like the complete opposite 0:14:43.000 --> 0:14:47.040 of my story, which is all about radical transparency and 0:14:47.560 --> 0:14:49.720 I would say the potential pros and cons of our 0:14:49.760 --> 0:14:54.120 overly connected world us. Do you share your location with anyone? 0:14:54.560 --> 0:14:59.480 Absolutely not. I hate sharing my location, even with Uber 0:14:59.520 --> 0:15:02.680 and Uber. I'm one of those people who turns off 0:15:03.240 --> 0:15:04.840 location services on apps. 0:15:05.000 --> 0:15:07.600 Oh so you're one of those never sharers, which means 0:15:07.640 --> 0:15:11.360 you'd be a terrible teenage girl. I, on the other hand, 0:15:11.400 --> 0:15:13.520 would make a wonderful member of gen Z. 0:15:13.760 --> 0:15:14.320 Tell me more. 0:15:14.640 --> 0:15:17.240 Apparently, there was a poll in twenty twenty two that 0:15:17.320 --> 0:15:20.760 found gen Z is the most likely generation to say 0:15:20.760 --> 0:15:23.280 it's convenient to share their location, which of course is 0:15:23.320 --> 0:15:26.000 not surprising to me because they're also the generation that 0:15:26.040 --> 0:15:30.400 has had access to location sharing nearly their whole lives. Conversely, 0:15:30.960 --> 0:15:33.960 Millennials were the most opinionated, like you were the most 0:15:34.000 --> 0:15:37.440 opinionated about using the digital tool. Location sharing started to 0:15:37.440 --> 0:15:40.800 become popular about fifteen years ago, when we were young 0:15:40.880 --> 0:15:43.280 enough to understand the appeal, but old enough to know 0:15:43.320 --> 0:15:46.240 what life was like without, you know, a GPS enabled 0:15:46.240 --> 0:15:48.320 device on our person at all times. 0:15:48.720 --> 0:15:52.600 Yeah, I mean the idea of being constantly surveiled is 0:15:52.680 --> 0:15:55.160 something our generation has had to come to terms with, 0:15:55.960 --> 0:15:58.160 and we came to terms with it at a pivotal age. 0:15:58.560 --> 0:16:01.800 Our elders, including the now how former CEO of the 0:16:01.840 --> 0:16:05.280 AI company Astronomer might do well if they understood the 0:16:05.320 --> 0:16:07.840 extent to which we are living in a surveillance world. 0:16:08.160 --> 0:16:10.760 You're talking about the former CEO who got caught cheating 0:16:10.880 --> 0:16:12.240 at the Coldplay concert. 0:16:12.440 --> 0:16:17.000 I'm talking about kisscam. The question, Kara, when you talk 0:16:17.040 --> 0:16:19.800 about location sharing, are you talking about the Apple feature 0:16:19.880 --> 0:16:22.600 find My or are there other tools that I don't 0:16:22.640 --> 0:16:24.920 know about that the younger folks are using. 0:16:25.160 --> 0:16:27.480 That is what we're talking about. Find My is really 0:16:27.480 --> 0:16:29.760 popular because it's free on an Apple device. It's what 0:16:29.840 --> 0:16:32.480 I use, for example. But there's also an app called 0:16:32.520 --> 0:16:35.520 Life three sixty, which I'm not a parent yet, but 0:16:35.600 --> 0:16:38.840 works across platforms and is more aimed at parents. It 0:16:38.880 --> 0:16:41.440 can even and this freaks me out, it can even 0:16:41.480 --> 0:16:44.600 show you how fast your kid is driving in real time, 0:16:44.720 --> 0:16:47.040 so regardless of whether or not. We live in a 0:16:47.040 --> 0:16:50.240 surveillance state. Your house might be a surveillance state. 0:16:50.360 --> 0:16:53.400 I mean, can you imagine how anxiety? And do you 0:16:53.440 --> 0:16:57.080 seem to be able to monitor your kids speeding at 0:16:57.080 --> 0:16:58.760 all times? I mean, hopefully they don't speed and you 0:16:58.760 --> 0:17:00.320 can use the app I guess to take the car 0:17:00.360 --> 0:17:02.880 away if they're regularly speeding. But basically it is part 0:17:02.920 --> 0:17:06.679 of adolescence to be risking your life on the semi 0:17:06.720 --> 0:17:09.560 regular there and to lie and to lie, yeah, and 0:17:09.600 --> 0:17:12.200 to life. Man is a parent to be I mean, gosh. 0:17:12.080 --> 0:17:14.040 To be a parent and to be a kid. I 0:17:14.080 --> 0:17:17.080 think about it all the time. We used to be Oh, yeah, 0:17:17.119 --> 0:17:18.760 I'm just at Leah's house right now? Do you know 0:17:18.800 --> 0:17:21.840 I'm like at a hookah bar like two hundred blocks 0:17:21.880 --> 0:17:26.960 away from there. Is one other feature that is really 0:17:27.000 --> 0:17:29.960 interesting that I am a part of, and I want 0:17:29.960 --> 0:17:32.640 to know if you know anything about snap map. 0:17:33.720 --> 0:17:35.639 Assume SnapMap is part of Snapchat. 0:17:36.080 --> 0:17:38.640 Yes, yes it is. You know it's funny. I bet 0:17:38.640 --> 0:17:41.240 if LinkedIn had to share my location tool, you'd share 0:17:41.280 --> 0:17:42.360 your location on LinkedIn. 0:17:43.440 --> 0:17:44.240 I'm hardcore on this. 0:17:44.960 --> 0:17:48.600 So SnapMap is a location sharing feature through Snapchat that 0:17:48.640 --> 0:17:52.640 was launched in twenty seventeen. As of May, SnapMap had 0:17:52.640 --> 0:17:56.639 more than four hundred million monthly users. So if you 0:17:56.720 --> 0:18:00.239 opt in, all the people you follow on Snapchat can 0:18:00.280 --> 0:18:02.160 see your location the minute you open the app. 0:18:02.240 --> 0:18:05.399 Okay, so Life three sixty is obviously like a different 0:18:05.440 --> 0:18:08.880 kettle of fish. This is like a monitoring tool. How 0:18:08.920 --> 0:18:11.359 would you characterize how you use Find my Friends on 0:18:11.400 --> 0:18:13.639 your iPhone differently from SnapMap? 0:18:14.160 --> 0:18:18.160 So it's I don't really use SnapMap, and I don't 0:18:18.200 --> 0:18:21.240 really use fine Mine, but I here's and this is 0:18:21.320 --> 0:18:25.840 very indicative of my personality. I passively let people follow 0:18:25.880 --> 0:18:28.440 where I am because they want to know. I don't 0:18:28.480 --> 0:18:31.000 care where people are, you know. But there is a 0:18:31.160 --> 0:18:34.320 strange feeling you get when a friend tells you where 0:18:34.359 --> 0:18:37.280 you are. They'll be like, you're at such and such, 0:18:37.480 --> 0:18:40.280 and I'm like, I am, how do you know that 0:18:40.320 --> 0:18:42.560 I'm at such and such. It's just it's this very 0:18:42.600 --> 0:18:45.399 weird feeling to have someone who you're very close to 0:18:45.640 --> 0:18:48.000 know where you are. I don't get in trouble with it, 0:18:48.040 --> 0:18:50.800 but you can imagine if you're at a Coldplay concert, 0:18:51.760 --> 0:18:52.840 you might get into trouble. 0:18:54.320 --> 0:18:56.160 One of the things that strikes me here is that 0:18:56.600 --> 0:19:00.960 at the very heart of our culture is fomo, and 0:19:01.040 --> 0:19:04.840 I'm wondering what it might feel like to open your 0:19:04.880 --> 0:19:09.119 snap map or you'll find my friends and see that 0:19:10.040 --> 0:19:12.160 you were the only person who didn't get the call up. 0:19:13.600 --> 0:19:16.359 You know, the first cut is the deepest. In this case, 0:19:16.400 --> 0:19:18.119 it used to be that you heard about a party 0:19:18.240 --> 0:19:20.440 after the weekend was over. Now you can see it 0:19:20.480 --> 0:19:22.440 with your own eyes, you know. I actually I read 0:19:22.440 --> 0:19:26.240 about this exact thing in sf Gate. I found this 0:19:26.359 --> 0:19:28.840 article that was written by and it had to have 0:19:28.840 --> 0:19:32.160 been written by the site's editorial intern, because nobody everybody 0:19:32.200 --> 0:19:34.879 there is probably a bit older. But this editorial intern, 0:19:35.320 --> 0:19:37.919 you know. It was gen Z and she recounted calling 0:19:37.960 --> 0:19:41.760 her mom in tears after seeing her best college friends 0:19:41.800 --> 0:19:44.640 descend on the campus dining hall, and she was crying 0:19:44.720 --> 0:19:47.800 because they had not extended an invitation to her. This 0:19:47.840 --> 0:19:51.240 format of memory hasn't deterred her from sharing her location 0:19:51.400 --> 0:19:54.480 with nearly twenty five people, though she often wonders if 0:19:54.480 --> 0:19:55.760 this practice is healthy. 0:19:56.400 --> 0:19:59.240 I also question if this practice is healthy, Hence I 0:19:59.280 --> 0:19:59.800 don't do it. 0:20:00.280 --> 0:20:02.040 Even though I do it, it is really weird and 0:20:02.080 --> 0:20:05.520 it's actually something psychologists are debating. I found this article 0:20:06.000 --> 0:20:09.960 on Psychology Today, which tried to outline the impact location 0:20:10.080 --> 0:20:13.680 sharing apps have on trust and relationships. Someone named doctor 0:20:13.720 --> 0:20:17.200 Pamela Rutledge acknowledges that location sharing is actually a sign 0:20:17.280 --> 0:20:20.680 of closeness among gen Z friends, and that tracking friends 0:20:20.760 --> 0:20:24.480 can create this sort of ambient awareness that makes people 0:20:24.520 --> 0:20:29.840 feel connected, comforted, and supported, albeit digitally supported, whatever that means. 0:20:30.000 --> 0:20:34.960 Yeah, it's one of those classic social media double edged shorts, right, 0:20:35.080 --> 0:20:39.919 like it? Yes, it both is the platform technology that 0:20:40.000 --> 0:20:43.639 if you're not doing you feel profoundly disconnected, but it 0:20:43.680 --> 0:20:45.960 can also in and of itself be a driver of 0:20:46.040 --> 0:20:47.720 loneliness and isolation alienation. 0:20:48.119 --> 0:20:50.640 Yeah, you know, as we pointed out, location sharing can 0:20:50.680 --> 0:20:54.640 create major FOMO. But beyond the feeling of being left out, 0:20:55.640 --> 0:20:59.439 the mutual visibility can also make I think teenagers and 0:20:59.520 --> 0:21:04.000 also really anyone feel like they have to look busy, 0:21:04.119 --> 0:21:09.200 which can lead to a kind of busyness to avoid judgment. 0:21:09.320 --> 0:21:12.280 And I just think this idea of like performing busyness 0:21:12.320 --> 0:21:14.679 because you're so aware of what other people are doing 0:21:15.240 --> 0:21:16.600 is very strange. 0:21:16.600 --> 0:21:19.080 Well, I mean that's the trope of the corporate office 0:21:19.119 --> 0:21:23.000 in the pre covid eras, right, I mean that was 0:21:23.080 --> 0:21:24.840 kind of the plot of the office was trying to 0:21:24.840 --> 0:21:28.200 figure out how to look busy at work, but having 0:21:28.240 --> 0:21:30.480 to figure out how to look busy in your social life. 0:21:30.520 --> 0:21:33.040 I mean, man's that's the money. It makes me think 0:21:33.080 --> 0:21:36.080 maybe you could slip an air tag into the most 0:21:36.080 --> 0:21:38.760 popular kid at school's backpack. 0:21:38.800 --> 0:21:41.000 Everywhere on their car, their car. 0:21:41.200 --> 0:21:42.880 Everyone be like, oh my god, look at that hanging 0:21:42.880 --> 0:21:44.959 out with I'm so jealous. Yeah, I mean. 0:21:45.000 --> 0:21:47.919