Speaker 1: Oh, baby, my baby, I need you, Oh how I
Speaker 1: need you? What do you expect? As a production of
Speaker 1: I Heart Radio, I'm your host Heidi Murkoff and I'm
Speaker 1: a mom on a mission, a mission to help you
Speaker 1: know what to expect every step of the way. A
Speaker 1: sleeping like a baby sounds so peaceful until you actually
Speaker 1: see a baby sleeping, and then you realize it's anything
Speaker 1: but peaceful, as you probably noticed the first time you
Speaker 1: stood over your newborn's bassonet, wondering why her rest was
Speaker 1: so restless and so noisy, and so many whimpers and
Speaker 1: squeaks and strange little breathing sounds, you know, the ones
Speaker 1: that keep you standing over her bassonet in the first place,
Speaker 1: and so much waking. Yes, newborns sleep a lot, but
Speaker 1: usually not for more than two three hours tops at
Speaker 1: a time, which explains why you're so tired with your
Speaker 1: sleepy little bundle rousing often for feeds and changes and cuddles.
Speaker 1: A full night's sleep for you, or even a nice
Speaker 1: long nap maybe, but a parental pipe dream for now.
Speaker 1: And though you knew this new tired normal was coming,
Speaker 1: you might not have expected exactly how exhausting it would
Speaker 1: be to care for newborn who spends so much time asleep,
Speaker 1: you might even be wondering when or even if your
Speaker 1: little one will actually sleep through the night, and when
Speaker 1: you'll feel comfortable letting her sleep without watching her baby steps.
Speaker 1: You will get there eventually, I promise, But I'm not
Speaker 1: gonna lie by eventually. I am not talking weeks, I'm
Speaker 1: talking months. But in the meantime, we are diving deep
Speaker 1: today into newborn sleep. How much, how often, how to
Speaker 1: do it safely and if and when? And how to
Speaker 1: start making bed times and naptimes routine? Getting sleepier already,
Speaker 1: let's get started. I'm here with Emma. Sorry, I fell asleep. Good.
Speaker 1: Then we're off to a good start. You knew it
Speaker 1: wasn't gonna be easy to get newborns to sleep. Do
Speaker 1: you think that it was harder than you actually expected? Yeah,
Speaker 1: you don't really know until it's happening. I'm one who
Speaker 1: enjoys her sleep, and so after I had Lennox, I
Speaker 1: was desperate to literally do anything I possibly could do
Speaker 1: to get them to sleep. So I broke every single
Speaker 1: cardinal rule, every single thing that you're not supposed to do.
Speaker 1: I did just so I could sleep. You know, it's
Speaker 1: survival of the sleepiest, you could say, when you're a
Speaker 1: new mom, So whatever gets to you through the night,
Speaker 1: it's all right, yes, so, but it's how long you
Speaker 1: keep up those half as they think, that probably matters.
Speaker 1: What were some of the things that you did with
Speaker 1: Lennox that maybe you didn't necessarily regret, but regret later
Speaker 1: on when they became habits. Well, Lennox didn't sleep in
Speaker 1: his crib or bass net. Lennox left in my arms,
Speaker 1: and that went on for a very very long time,
Speaker 1: like maybe a year ish, and so I really set
Speaker 1: him up for disaster when it came to sleep. He
Speaker 1: wasn't sleep tray until he was like four years old.
Speaker 1: And that was not a mistake I was going to make.
Speaker 1: With Seby. I was like, not again. This took like
Speaker 1: fifteen years off my life, the exhaustion. I learned a
Speaker 1: lot of lessons. I always rocked him to sleep in
Speaker 1: my arms. He never napped in his crib. He only
Speaker 1: napped on me. And so one thing that I was
Speaker 1: adamant about with Seby is that he's going to learn
Speaker 1: how to put himself to sleep. Lennox didn't get that advantage.
Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, I literally drove every single day for
Speaker 1: three hours so he would sleep. Eventually he slept in
Speaker 1: the car. I made every single classic mistake you could
Speaker 1: possibly make. When you were a baby. We lived in
Speaker 1: New York City, so we didn't have a car. What
Speaker 1: I would do, I would put you in the stroller
Speaker 1: and I would walk around. So actually it's better for
Speaker 1: my health than driving around. But on a hot day,
Speaker 1: nothing like it. Let me tell you, I would like
Speaker 1: freak out because anytime the car would stop at a
Speaker 1: stop way, I would like freak out, like gonna wake up?
Speaker 1: Why did you put this stop sign? Right? The same
Speaker 1: thing in New York City is a I'd have to
Speaker 1: like be super gentle going over the curbs with the stroller,
Speaker 1: and there were always potholes. But the other thing, you
Speaker 1: have to stop for the light, for the pedestrian crossing lights,
Speaker 1: and so it was a struggle. And then I'd go
Speaker 1: into a store with the stroller and you'd immediately wake up,
Speaker 1: so I couldn't even do my shopping good times. So
Speaker 1: what did you do differently with sev Sev From the beginning? Okay,
Speaker 1: now I'm lying. Now I'm lying for a few months
Speaker 1: until my husband yelled at me to rock him to
Speaker 1: sleep in my arms, and he knacked on me. I
Speaker 1: did give it up. I ripped off the band aid
Speaker 1: and he started to sleep in his crib and he
Speaker 1: put himself to sleep. And to this day he is
Speaker 1: an amazing sleeper. He puts himself to sleep. He is
Speaker 1: my son where he looks nothing like me, but he
Speaker 1: can sleep like his mother. I set him up for
Speaker 1: a good, healthy life of sleep sleep success. Watch tonight,
Speaker 1: He's gonna be up all night Murphy's law. Absolutely. And
Speaker 1: you know with you, guys, I do remember we did
Speaker 1: sleep training with you when you were about maybe four months,
Speaker 1: five months, and then you slept well after that until
Speaker 1: you started coming back into our bed when you were
Speaker 1: able to. That was super tough for you to quit.
Speaker 1: I think you were twelve and you stopped doing that.
Speaker 1: Maybe yeah, So I'd say that was some mistake, but
Speaker 1: no guilt, live and learn, learn exactly. I would say
Speaker 1: I made more of those mistakes the first time. Typically,
Speaker 1: do make more mistakes with your first one. Same yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: And I'm putting mistakes in air quotes because you know,
Speaker 1: it's not that you make mistakes, it's that you learn
Speaker 1: on the job, and it's a steep learning curve, especially
Speaker 1: when it comes to things like this. Yeah, especially when
Speaker 1: you're tired. Yeah, And it's again with the desperate times,
Speaker 1: and desperate parents take desperate measures. And the other thing
Speaker 1: is you're trying to find the past of least resistance
Speaker 1: to sleep, and the past to least resistance with a
Speaker 1: baby or with a toddler is probably going to be
Speaker 1: in your arms or with some other kind of comforting habits.
Speaker 1: So you take the easy street when you're a parent sometimes, Oh,
Speaker 1: yes you do. And you know, the whole time I'm
Speaker 1: sitting there, I'm like, Oh, he's only gonna be a
Speaker 1: baby one this is what I tell myself, so I
Speaker 1: don't feel like the thing that's not gonna end up
Speaker 1: going so great eventually. Yeah, the thing is they're not
Speaker 1: going to be a baby for long, but they'll keep
Speaker 1: those habits for a lifetime. Exactly exactly. We're gonna try
Speaker 1: to take easy street, give you some good tips along
Speaker 1: the way that will make it even easier and hopefully
Speaker 1: get your child to develop some good sleep habits. So
Speaker 1: we're gonna take a quick break, and when week come back,
Speaker 1: I am answering the biggest questions you have about your
Speaker 1: newborn sleep and yours. Okay, mom, so this is my
Speaker 1: favorite topic because it's sleep and if there's one thing
Speaker 1: that I like, it's sleep. Let's go through some of
Speaker 1: the biggest questions our listeners have about their newborn sleep.
Speaker 1: How many hours should a newborn baby be sleeping? Well,
Speaker 1: sleep is definitely job one for babies, so they spend
Speaker 1: more time sleeping than doing anything else, even feeding. My god,
Speaker 1: how do I apply for this job? I think you
Speaker 1: exceed the age requirement? But yeah, they feedle up, but
Speaker 1: they don't feed as much as they sleep. About sixteen
Speaker 1: out of every twenty four hours are spent sleeping, and
Speaker 1: that's really for a good reason, because sleep is when
Speaker 1: babies do some of their best growing and some of
Speaker 1: their best developing, So it is always time well spent,
Speaker 1: as it should be, especially when it's interspersed with frequent feedings,
Speaker 1: and breastfed babies are gonna need those feedings even more
Speaker 1: than formula fed babies. And all newborns are sleepy. That's
Speaker 1: the way they're born, and that's so that they can
Speaker 1: do all that important growing and developing. But some newborns
Speaker 1: are actually especially sleepy and early on. Some babies are
Speaker 1: completely content to sleep through feeds, and they actually shouldn't
Speaker 1: do that. It sounds counterintuitive, but it's really important to
Speaker 1: wake a sleepyhead for feeds if he doesn't wake up
Speaker 1: on his own and he doesn't demand them himself. It's
Speaker 1: not easy. You can try unswaddling some skin to skin,
Speaker 1: a cool cloth, sitting baby up in your lap, of course,
Speaker 1: supported that might help. And here's the trick. It's way
Speaker 1: easier to wake a baby up from rapid eye movement
Speaker 1: rem sleep active sleep than it is during deep sleep.
Speaker 1: Deep sleep is a beast to try to wake them
Speaker 1: up from old habits die hard, Yes they do, okay,
Speaker 1: So what about all that moving around and all those
Speaker 1: sounds they're making when they're sleeping. Babies are notorious dunes
Speaker 1: and that weird breathing that always made me panic. It
Speaker 1: makes everybody panic. Remember all that rum sleep that you
Speaker 1: did during pregnancy, that was the reason you did all
Speaker 1: the tossing and turning. Well that in the hartburn and
Speaker 1: the being all night. But that was dream sleep. That's
Speaker 1: the rem sleep. And so if you ever stood over
Speaker 1: sleeping baby, and oh my god, if you haven't done that,
Speaker 1: you absolutely should, because that's when you see those little
Speaker 1: eyelids moving around and those ridiculously cute faces that they make,
Speaker 1: those little pouts and the smile those and the frowns
Speaker 1: and the puckers, and that's when they make all of
Speaker 1: those precious little sounds, those little squeaks that make you
Speaker 1: melt into a pool of slush, and for us it's
Speaker 1: just point cute. But baby brains are actually working overtime
Speaker 1: during rem sleep. That's when babies do a lot of
Speaker 1: their serious brain development. They're learning and processing information that
Speaker 1: they soak up when they're awake, so it's never a
Speaker 1: waste of time. In fact, interestingly enough, premise do more
Speaker 1: of that REM sleep, and that's probably because their brains
Speaker 1: need that extra development time that they otherwise would have
Speaker 1: gotten on the inside. Now, something else you might notice
Speaker 1: while you're watching and listening your baby sleep is how
Speaker 1: irregular your baby's breathing is. During active sleep, it can
Speaker 1: seem really rapid, it can seem very shallow, and then
Speaker 1: you have those long pauses between breasts, and that's where
Speaker 1: parents often go into panic mode. And then you hear
Speaker 1: those occasional little snorts and grunts, But all of that
Speaker 1: is normal. That's the good news. It's not going to
Speaker 1: stop you from standing over the bassinet anytime soon. But
Speaker 1: it's normal. It's called periodic breathing, and it's standard for
Speaker 1: newborns when they're in the ram phase. And of course
Speaker 1: then you have deep sleep, which babies alternate with active sleep,
Speaker 1: and they do that about every thirty minutes. Deep sleep.
Speaker 1: It's also going to make you panic occasionally because they
Speaker 1: sleep so soundly, they're so still there, breathing is so
Speaker 1: quiet that sometimes you have to just give them a
Speaker 1: little jiggle to make sure they're still breathing. Not that
Speaker 1: I've ever done that, Yeah, me neither, No, never done that. Okay,
Speaker 1: So should we really wait out the whimpers before picking
Speaker 1: them up? Or should we just go in here to kill?
Speaker 1: I mean, we all learn this eventually, but I'm trying
Speaker 1: to help my sisters and brothers out so you don't
Speaker 1: have to learn the hard way. Unless it's time to
Speaker 1: wake up for feed, wait to pick up your baby
Speaker 1: if they're just doing that little light whimpering, that fussing,
Speaker 1: because they're going to do a lot of that when
Speaker 1: they're and rem sleep and they might still be sleeping
Speaker 1: and if they're still sleeping and you jump in to
Speaker 1: pick them up, then you're going to interrupt that sleep.
Speaker 1: So it's not the same as crying it out at all.
Speaker 1: We're not even going they're not at all at this point.
Speaker 1: But those little whimpers when they're still sleeping, you don't
Speaker 1: have to necessarily pick them up right away, and you're
Speaker 1: going to figure out the difference between crying and whimpering,
Speaker 1: and you know that sleepy fussing pretty soon, and when
Speaker 1: they fall and cry, that's when you pick them up, unless,
Speaker 1: of course, it's time for feet. If if it's time
Speaker 1: for a feet, then you go for it anyway and
Speaker 1: wake them up, and it's going to be easier to
Speaker 1: wake them up during rem sleep. But sleeping like a baby,
Speaker 1: that is a load of crap because they are super
Speaker 1: super noisy when they sleep. Okay, so mixing up days
Speaker 1: and nights, why do newborns do that? And what can
Speaker 1: be as parents do? So you did this? Why I
Speaker 1: did this? Most babies do this if you think about it,
Speaker 1: they spend nine months in the dark literally day and night.
Speaker 1: It's all the same in the womb cocoon. And if
Speaker 1: you also think about it, when do babies do most
Speaker 1: of their kicking when they're in utero when you're pregnant,
Speaker 1: when do they kick They do it at night? Why
Speaker 1: because that's when you're lying down and during the day,
Speaker 1: when you're up and around, they're lulled to sleep by
Speaker 1: the movement, So it's only natural that they would continue
Speaker 1: that pattern after they're born. So it is natural. It's temporary.
Speaker 1: Usually takes a few weeks of adjustment to life on
Speaker 1: the outside, but babies typically stop mixing up their days
Speaker 1: and nights on their own, and you can help me
Speaker 1: that realization with just a few basic tricks. First would
Speaker 1: be have your baby do most of her daytime sleep
Speaker 1: in a light room and have her do her nighttime
Speaker 1: sleep in a dark one, so that you're making that
Speaker 1: distinction light is for lighter sleep and dark is for
Speaker 1: deeper sleep. Second would be to keep her daytime sleep
Speaker 1: sessions shorter, so you don't want to let her sleep
Speaker 1: more than three hours at a time during the day
Speaker 1: and then waker if she goes longer than that. And
Speaker 1: during the day you can be super engaging. That's the
Speaker 1: time to pull out all the simulation stops, to do
Speaker 1: lots of chatting and singing and all those silly faces
Speaker 1: you were waiting to use. And at night, when your
Speaker 1: baby wigs only do the necessary diaper changing, you want
Speaker 1: to keep that to a minimum. So if you have
Speaker 1: to change, great, but go for it with a light
Speaker 1: super low. Don't pull out your phone or turn on
Speaker 1: the TV when you're doing feeds, and keep all the
Speaker 1: communications to whisper or softly sung lullabies so that the
Speaker 1: baby gets the idea that nighttime is not party time. Right.
Speaker 1: One thing you shouldn't try, though, and a lot of
Speaker 1: parents learn this The hard way to is try to
Speaker 1: keep your baby up all day thinking that he's going
Speaker 1: to sleep better at night. That does not work. That
Speaker 1: backfires big time babies need daytime naps, and infants need
Speaker 1: lots and lots of daytime sleep, and overtired babies actually
Speaker 1: sleep less well, not better, and the same I think, Emma,
Speaker 1: you would agree could be said for overtired children. That
Speaker 1: is so true when Sebby is overtired, I always think
Speaker 1: he's gonna sleep great that night, and he is up
Speaker 1: at the breaths crack of dawn. So yeah, okay, one
Speaker 1: should we expect for a baby to sleep through the night.
Speaker 1: I guess like not the first day, And how do
Speaker 1: you know it's okay to skip the middle of the
Speaker 1: night feedings. Yeah, so every baby is different. Newborns, whether
Speaker 1: they're breast or formula fed, or they do a combo,
Speaker 1: they need to eat several times at least during the night,
Speaker 1: and they definitely should not do anything approximating sleeping through
Speaker 1: the night. Even most three or four months old babies
Speaker 1: still need at least one middle of the night feeding,
Speaker 1: maybe two, and a lot of them continue needing at
Speaker 1: least one until they're pushing six months, and especially breastfed babies,
Speaker 1: since breast elk is more easily digested, babies need that
Speaker 1: refill more frequently. Now. Metabolically speaking, older babies can go
Speaker 1: without the middle of the night feed once they've reached
Speaker 1: twelve pounds, but a lot of babies reached twelve pounds
Speaker 1: in the early early months, and so that might not
Speaker 1: hold true. And also many babies, whether metabolically they need
Speaker 1: to or not, they don't choose to. And that's fine
Speaker 1: because you know, easy for me to say, But what
Speaker 1: you can do if you have a midnight muncher who's
Speaker 1: left twelve pounds in the dust and is still feeding
Speaker 1: the night away is trying to gradually extend the time
Speaker 1: between feeds by a few minutes a night. You know
Speaker 1: or not, if you have to do what feels best
Speaker 1: for you and what's comfortable for you. And also remember
Speaker 1: when a baby wakes with a whimper, look before you
Speaker 1: leap if you've already just fed her, because she might
Speaker 1: be sleeping or she might settle back to sleep given
Speaker 1: a chance. Something else to try. If you're feeling like
Speaker 1: an all night diner and the nightly special is your boobs.
Speaker 1: Make sure the baby is getting a full feed before
Speaker 1: your baby nods off, because otherwise they're having a midnight snack,
Speaker 1: not a midnight meal. And the other thing is with breastfeeding.
Speaker 1: If your baby is only getting a few SIPs, that's
Speaker 1: the hind milk, that's the skim milk that will not
Speaker 1: keep them full for the night. So you want to
Speaker 1: make sure that a baby at least finishes one breast
Speaker 1: before she conks out again, so she won't wake up
Speaker 1: hungry again in twenty minutes. And also you've got to
Speaker 1: keep in mind sleeping through the night sounds great, but
Speaker 1: it doesn't mean that you put your baby down to
Speaker 1: sleep at seven pm and they wake up at seven am.
Speaker 1: At least, not this early in the sleep game, even
Speaker 1: for really good sleeper. Maybe it'll mean a seven or
Speaker 1: eight o'clock bedtime, then a ten eleven pm snack, and
Speaker 1: then maybe after some time, if you're lucky, they'll sleep
Speaker 1: till five maybe six, then a little more bottle or breasts,
Speaker 1: and then they'll go back to sleep for a couple
Speaker 1: of hours after that, and gradually. The idea is to
Speaker 1: expect the longer stretches of sleep to come at night
Speaker 1: and to get longer and longer, and if they don't
Speaker 1: get longer, then we can talk later. You know. Sleep
Speaker 1: training isn't something you should even think about doing until
Speaker 1: your baby is closer to six months. Definitely not before
Speaker 1: four months. But check with the pediatrician. Okay, mom, So
Speaker 1: what exactly is safe sleep? What does that mean? Obviously,
Speaker 1: if you have a newborn, it's going to be a
Speaker 1: while before you get that full night's sleep right, But
Speaker 1: you will rest easier if you know your baby is
Speaker 1: sleeping safely, if not soundly, and that means doing absolutely everything.
Speaker 1: Experts recommend to minimize the risk of SIDS or sudden
Speaker 1: infant death syndrome. This is the must do stuff. And
Speaker 1: you know it's important when I say it's must do,
Speaker 1: because there's so little must do in my book, literally,
Speaker 1: But when it comes to safe sleep, it must do
Speaker 1: and safely. It starts with the right position right from
Speaker 1: the start. Flat on his back, not on his side,
Speaker 1: not on his tummy, not at a semi recline like
Speaker 1: in a swing or in a car seat. Flat on
Speaker 1: his back is flat out the safest way for a
Speaker 1: baby to sleep. A pacifier for sleep is really also protective.
Speaker 1: That's what the research shows. If your baby will take one,
Speaker 1: if he doesn't take a passie, you don't have to
Speaker 1: stress out. Location also matters. Safest place for your baby
Speaker 1: to sleep is in your room, next your bed, but
Speaker 1: not in your bed. So being close to a parent
Speaker 1: during sleep we know is protective against it. Mind you,
Speaker 1: nobody is going to sleep soundly that way, least of
Speaker 1: all you, what with all those baby noises and startles
Speaker 1: and tossing and turning. But baby will sleep more safely,
Speaker 1: and that's what it's all about. Safe sleep space, A bassinet,
Speaker 1: a pack and play with, a as it insert, or
Speaker 1: a crib are all safe for sleep, assuming they're new,
Speaker 1: they've passed safety requirements, no old models or ones that
Speaker 1: might have been recalled, and definitely no antiques. Unsafe sleep
Speaker 1: spaces are unfortunately baby's favorites. So and I hear this
Speaker 1: all the time from mom's My baby loves sleeping in
Speaker 1: a doctat I know we're not supposed to put the
Speaker 1: baby in in the docatad for sleep, but that's the
Speaker 1: only place my baby will sleep. Loungers, nest docatots, poppies,
Speaker 1: all of those are fun for hanging out, but not
Speaker 1: for sleep, and baby sleep way better in those spaces
Speaker 1: because they're so super cozy, but they are not safe.
Speaker 1: And the same thing for swings or seats or rock
Speaker 1: and plays, and those have been recalled for that reason.
Speaker 1: Anything that puts baby at a semi recline. Yes, babies
Speaker 1: will not offer them, absolutely because they love that motion,
Speaker 1: and some babies will sleep in them given the opportunity
Speaker 1: for hours at a time. But for safety's sake, as
Speaker 1: soon as you can move a baby into a safe
Speaker 1: sleep space if they fallen asleep in a swing or
Speaker 1: in a seat, and don't let babies nap in those.
Speaker 1: You notice when a newborn is in that position, their
Speaker 1: heads flopped forward and that can lead to their airway
Speaker 1: being blocked, and it can also lead to tightening of
Speaker 1: the neck muscles called tora colis. So definitely none of that.
Speaker 1: And also no sleeping on so fuzz even if you're
Speaker 1: sitting nearby and you think your baby can't roll over yet,
Speaker 1: so why not put them on the sofa they'll sleep better. No, no, no,
Speaker 1: no armchairs, no bean bag chairs. And don't forget my motto.
Speaker 1: This is something I taught Lennox when he was about
Speaker 1: to become a big brother, and he loved repeating it.
Speaker 1: What goes in the crib nothing but the baby. Nothing
Speaker 1: in that safe sleep space. Otherwise it's not a safe
Speaker 1: sleep space anymore. No pillows, no positioners, no blankets, no
Speaker 1: rolled up blankets as positioners, no blankets. It's for a
Speaker 1: tight swaddle, and no swaddles at all once you have
Speaker 1: a baby Houdini who can escape from the hoose, because
Speaker 1: loose bedding is also unsafe. And no soft toys, no wedges,
Speaker 1: no bumpers, just a baby flat on his back on
Speaker 1: a firm, tight fitting mattress covered by a tight fitting sheet.
Speaker 1: I did listen to you about all this stuff. I
Speaker 1: didn't have a docta talk. I didn't have any of that,
Speaker 1: And those are fine to have to clarify. If you
Speaker 1: use a doctop for lounging, that's perfectly fine. That's great
Speaker 1: as long is they're awake or you're supervising, but don't
Speaker 1: let them sleep in it. And also if there's a
Speaker 1: chance that you're gonna fall asleep with your baby and
Speaker 1: one of those things, that's also a risk. Okay, so
Speaker 1: what if you fall asleep with your baby on top
Speaker 1: of you. We all have picture of our husband's sleeping
Speaker 1: with the baby on top of them because it's just
Speaker 1: oh so precious. I love them, And that's totally fine
Speaker 1: if you're awake and taking that picture of the baby
Speaker 1: is sleeping on dad. Yeah, you know, it's so tempting.
Speaker 1: It is so hard not to fall asleep when you're
Speaker 1: so tired your baby's on top of you. Breastfeeding moms
Speaker 1: especially because the breastfeeding hormones make you so so sleepy,
Speaker 1: so it happens. It's gonna happen, But it's much safer
Speaker 1: to put your baby down in that safe sleep spot
Speaker 1: as soon as you can before you fall asleep and
Speaker 1: no matter where you're sleeping, but especially on a sofa
Speaker 1: or recliner. What happens with that sometimes this baby can
Speaker 1: fall off or become entrapped, and that's super dangerous, especially
Speaker 1: well clearly if you're sleeping. And I know, I know,
Speaker 1: it's the best feeling in the world to have a sweet,
Speaker 1: sticky baby on your chest or in your arms, but
Speaker 1: it's just too risky to take that chance. I mean,
Speaker 1: what about co sleeping? Is there right way and the
Speaker 1: wrong way? You know I did it, and I know
Speaker 1: you did. You told me not to. I didn't listen,
Speaker 1: which is not a massive surprise, you know. But the
Speaker 1: thing is, the term co sleeping is actually confusing. It's
Speaker 1: way more accurate to say room sharing versus bed sharing. Now,
Speaker 1: room sharing is recommended for preventing SIDS, completely recommended, but
Speaker 1: bed sharing is not recommended. And I know a lot
Speaker 1: of people say you can do it safely, but the
Speaker 1: AP and all other experts, most of other experts are
Speaker 1: not going to agree with that. There are lots of
Speaker 1: tight spaces that a baby can be come and trapped in.
Speaker 1: And also if you could be sure that nobody would
Speaker 1: roll over during the night like a heavy sleeper might
Speaker 1: and moms do sleep much more lightly around their babies
Speaker 1: in general. That's what the research shows, but it's just
Speaker 1: not something experts want you to risk. There are so
Speaker 1: many variables and it's really hard to completely modify or
Speaker 1: control all of them to make bed sharing safe. Once again,
Speaker 1: I get it, I totally get it. If I'm gonna
Speaker 1: be honest, there is nothing in the world I'd rather
Speaker 1: sleep with, sorry Eric, than a sweet smelling bundle of baby.
Speaker 1: But as tempting as it is and convenient for feeding,
Speaker 1: because babies right there and can nip as they want to,
Speaker 1: you gotta put safety first. Okay, but how can you
Speaker 1: get them to sleep? Should we swaddle? Should we use
Speaker 1: white noise? What about putting them down the sleep these
Speaker 1: are see? For me, I'm team white noise. I can't
Speaker 1: sleep without a white noise machine. My kids can't sleep. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I know, I know, And there's a good reason. Fat
Speaker 1: babies are creatures of comfort, and they're creatures of habit,
Speaker 1: and that's especially true when it comes to sleep. They
Speaker 1: are comforted by what they are used to, and what
Speaker 1: they're used to is being in I'm gonna say it
Speaker 1: again that womb cocoon. No, not the womb cocoon. They're
Speaker 1: all snug and they're tightly wrapped and they have very
Speaker 1: little room, so they can't move around and they're in
Speaker 1: a fetal position, and by the time they're moving closer
Speaker 1: to the exit, they really can't. They have no space
Speaker 1: at all, and so tight spaces are there their happy place,
Speaker 1: not wide open spaces. And that's why so many of
Speaker 1: them enjoy being swaddled, not at all. Every baby is different.
Speaker 1: Some prefer their hands or their feet to be free,
Speaker 1: but for most, you know, it's a wrap. It's a wrap,
Speaker 1: sleep sack, hybrid sleepsack, swaddle, those are great too. They'll
Speaker 1: also prefer a smaller sleep space, so a cradle or
Speaker 1: a bassinet or a bassinet insert at first is way
Speaker 1: better than a crib for sleep if you can get
Speaker 1: one now. Motion motion. It's not realistic for you to
Speaker 1: keep up rocking around the clocks, but when you rock
Speaker 1: a baby to sleep in the early months, that's absolutely
Speaker 1: fine because they're used to that. It's comforting, and especially
Speaker 1: during the day when you're moving around, they're used to
Speaker 1: that movement, and bassnets that rock can help you keep
Speaker 1: that motion going after you put your baby down. There
Speaker 1: are also some high tech versions that come with high
Speaker 1: price tags. My worry about those is that they are electronics,
Speaker 1: so they keep rocking on their own. The thing about
Speaker 1: that is they can be super addictive and super expensive,
Speaker 1: and some babies end up hating all of that motion.
Speaker 1: And that's after you've already laid down the big box
Speaker 1: for the basternet. Something else babies are used to, and
Speaker 1: now we're getting to the white noise. They are used
Speaker 1: to sleeping with noise. And you think the uterus would
Speaker 1: be a pretty quiet place, but it's actually louder than
Speaker 1: you would expect. There's your heartbeat, the gurgling of your
Speaker 1: tummy from all of that gas, the sound of your voice,
Speaker 1: other sounds around the house, like dogs barking, laurence honking.
Speaker 1: If you live in a city, so a newborn is
Speaker 1: likely to sleep better. One is not completely quiet with
Speaker 1: white noise machine, a fan going, saw music, or a
Speaker 1: soother that imitates uterine or heartbeat sounds. Now you know,
Speaker 1: people say, well, should you keep the house quiet when
Speaker 1: baby sleeping? You can try to minimize lots of extra
Speaker 1: extraneous background noise, but the reality is they're going to
Speaker 1: have an easier time sleeping when they're older if they
Speaker 1: can sleep through your phone ringing or the doorbell ringing
Speaker 1: than if they were used to complete quiet. So what
Speaker 1: about not putting them down asleep? That's what I did
Speaker 1: with Len and Sevy, always awake when I put them down.
Speaker 1: So you're talking about trying to put them down awake
Speaker 1: instead of asleep. Correct the idea that they need to
Speaker 1: fall asleep on their own. Yeah, it is so so
Speaker 1: hard for young babies not to fall asleep when they're feeding.
Speaker 1: I mean it's almost I would say it's almost impossible.
Speaker 1: So it's not as easy as saying, oh, I'll just
Speaker 1: put my baby down awake and that way he'll learn
Speaker 1: to fall asleep. So I mean that is ideal, but
Speaker 1: it's not super realistic. Listen, any chance that you can
Speaker 1: do that and put them down drowsy. You want them
Speaker 1: drowsy but still a little bit awake so they can
Speaker 1: travel the last few inches to dreamland on their own,
Speaker 1: and you know your baby will, as a creature of
Speaker 1: comfort and habit, get used to any of those comforting
Speaker 1: habits that you've created, the feeding to sleep, rocking to sleep.
Speaker 1: I wouldn't worry about that. As long as you kick
Speaker 1: those sleep crutches by the time you reach the six
Speaker 1: month mark, it's really all good. And you know then
Speaker 1: there's always the question. This was an issue for me
Speaker 1: constantly when you were a baby, Will she stay asleep
Speaker 1: once I put her down? And the answer is it's
Speaker 1: pretty dicey. I do that with you. When you were
Speaker 1: a baby. I'd rock rock, rock, rock rock. It would
Speaker 1: take all that rocking effort. You finally asleep. I'd say
Speaker 1: a prayer, I'd rock some more. I'd say another prayer,
Speaker 1: and then I would try to stop breathing right and
Speaker 1: I ever so gently put you down, and the moment
Speaker 1: you would hit the mattress gently because I was super
Speaker 1: gentle with you, you'd wake right up. I swear I'm
Speaker 1: getting anxiety just talking about that right now. I'm getting
Speaker 1: anxiety hearing it. It's so hard, and this is one
Speaker 1: of the problems that a lot of moms have. For me,
Speaker 1: it was probably had a lot to do with the
Speaker 1: fact that my arms are so short, so having a
Speaker 1: mattress that's a little bit higher up, if you're vertically
Speaker 1: challenged like me, that could help. And also a rocking bassonet.
Speaker 1: We didn't have a rocking bassonet. But when you put
Speaker 1: them down and then rock a little bit, do some shishing,
Speaker 1: and hopefully they'll fall back asleep. When should we put
Speaker 1: our baby on a sleep schedule? And what exactly should
Speaker 1: that newborn sleep routine look like. So again, we're we
Speaker 1: are taking baby steps the road to sleeping through the night.
Speaker 1: Let's just say it might be a long and winding
Speaker 1: road in some homes. But the first steps on the road,
Speaker 1: no matter where it leads and how long it takes,
Speaker 1: are good sleep habits and a good sleep routine. So
Speaker 1: before we dig in, I've got to clarify. A sleep
Speaker 1: routine is not a sleep schedule. Newborn babies don't have schedules,
Speaker 1: and they're not supposed to have schedules. They might start
Speaker 1: to fall into some kind of pattern of sleep on
Speaker 1: their own, and they might not, because again, every baby
Speaker 1: is different, and some babies, by nature they're more regular
Speaker 1: and others are by nature more irregular. But it's not
Speaker 1: something that we as parents can or should impose on
Speaker 1: them in the first few months. The only exception is,
Speaker 1: as we mentioned before, waking up a baby when it's
Speaker 1: time for a feet if they've gone too long without one,
Speaker 1: or encouraging a little extra daytime play to help a
Speaker 1: baby distinguish between days and nights. But beyond that, you
Speaker 1: do not want to mess with those natural cycles. Now,
Speaker 1: once babies two or three months old, you might start
Speaker 1: to notice a rhythm, if not a full on pattern
Speaker 1: to waking and sleeping. So it's not going to be
Speaker 1: a schedule, but it'll be a little bit more of
Speaker 1: a predictable pattern. Sleep, wake, eat, sleep, wake, eat sleep.
Speaker 1: But the periods of wake time, hopefully they'll come more
Speaker 1: often during the day, are gradually going to grow, and
Speaker 1: as baby becomes more alert and more sociable and way
Speaker 1: way more fun to play with. But even a three
Speaker 1: months old is so active and engaged and sociable and
Speaker 1: smiling and you know, starting to giggle. They'll still be
Speaker 1: sleeping upwards of fourteen even sixteen hours a day. It's
Speaker 1: just that they're doing slightly longer stretches than a newborn,
Speaker 1: and hopefully those stretches will come at night. Now, sleep routines,
Speaker 1: that is a can do, and it should do. It's
Speaker 1: not a must do because we have very few of those,
Speaker 1: but you can start doing it right from the start
Speaker 1: on the plus side a predictable bedtime routine. It's easy
Speaker 1: to establish soothing on both sides. It's best of all,
Speaker 1: the long term payoff potential is huge. You have a
Speaker 1: baby who hopefully comes to anticipate bedtime and associate the
Speaker 1: routine with falling asleep, and ultimately, one day or one
Speaker 1: night in the future, hopefully not too too too far
Speaker 1: distant future, they fall asleep on their own. But again,
Speaker 1: babies are creatures of habit and comfort, and what a
Speaker 1: bedtime routine does it creates a comforting habit that's so
Speaker 1: consistent it becomes routine. You have a predictable series of
Speaker 1: steps that gently apply the breaks to a baby's mind
Speaker 1: and body, and it starts to clue baby in the
Speaker 1: bedtime is the time to stop buzzing and start getting sleepy,
Speaker 1: and hopefully it lays down a foundation for that childhood
Speaker 1: of of happy bedtimes and healthy sleep, and that at
Speaker 1: least is the long term goal. Keep it simple, keep
Speaker 1: it consistent. A warm gass or even a sponge bath
Speaker 1: if you're not doing a nightly bath, low lights, soft music,
Speaker 1: a mellow vibe, turn off the TV, turn off the
Speaker 1: notifications on your phone, a massage, and you can use
Speaker 1: lavender scented lotion to get them extra sleepy, quiet cuddles,
Speaker 1: even a story. And yes, you can start reading to
Speaker 1: your baby on the first night, just to get into
Speaker 1: the habit. Some rocking, some lullabies, shishing, and then fingers
Speaker 1: crossed sleep. Okay, so i'ma you're a tired mom, perpetually tired.
Speaker 1: What's your best advice to those tired moms out there.
Speaker 1: I want you to understand that I even when they're
Speaker 1: out of the house, you're always going to have that
Speaker 1: mom worries. So no matter what age they are, you're
Speaker 1: going to be concerned and you're gonna they're your kids.
Speaker 1: So just know that you will never sleep like before
Speaker 1: you had children. That's a cherry thought. I think the
Speaker 1: ultimate irony is once they start sleeping through the night,
Speaker 1: you've already lost that ability for a lifetime exactly. So
Speaker 1: we're going to be the same. But it will get better, moms,
Speaker 1: it will get better. We'll get better. It's a new normal.
Speaker 1: It's the new normal, and you'll get used to it.
Speaker 1: You golfed, ask who needs sleep? You got a coffee,
Speaker 1: You're fine, You're gonna get some sleep. Don't listen to Emma,
Speaker 1: here's the safe and comfy sleeping Baby Belove, my baby Belove.
Speaker 1: I need you, Oh how I need you. Thanks for listening.
Speaker 1: Remember I'm always here for you. What to Expect is
Speaker 1: always here for you. We're all in this together. For
Speaker 1: more on what you heard on today's episode, visit what
Speaker 1: to Expect dot com slash podcast. You can also check
Speaker 1: out What to Expect when You're Expecting, What to Expect
Speaker 1: the First Year, and the What to Expect app. And
Speaker 1: we want to hear from you. Connect with us on
Speaker 1: our community message board or on our social media. You
Speaker 1: can find me at Heidi Murkoff and Emma at Emma
Speaker 1: Being wt E and of course at What to Expect.
Speaker 1: Baby Love is performed by Riley Peterer. What to Expect
Speaker 1: is a production of I Heart Radio. From more shows
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