WEBVTT - The Elite Had No Idea.  Mark Krikorian talks Immigration with Armstrong & Getty

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<v Speaker 1>Critical to ending the border crisis is removing all incentives

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<v Speaker 1>for smuggling women and children. Part of the president's speech

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<v Speaker 1>there from the White House lawn about the new immigration

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<v Speaker 1>proposal floated by his administration, and to discuss that proposition

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<v Speaker 1>and some of the gallop poll numbers we were talking

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<v Speaker 1>about in in a lot more about immigration, illegal immigration.

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<v Speaker 1>Markeret Coryan joins us in studio. What an honor. Mark

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<v Speaker 1>is the executive director of the Center for Immigration Studies.

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<v Speaker 1>Market's good to you to come by, good to see

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<v Speaker 1>it in person, Glad to be here. Sure, we've talked

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<v Speaker 1>many many times through the years. So you want to

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<v Speaker 1>give us a brief reaction to the proposal what you

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<v Speaker 1>heard yesterday. There's a lot good in there, because part

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<v Speaker 1>of it is illegal immigration measures, in other words, plugging

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<v Speaker 1>these loopholes that are drawing people to the border that

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<v Speaker 1>the cartels are well aware of and exploit exactly. And

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<v Speaker 1>the other part, the one that's gotten more attention, is

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<v Speaker 1>the legal immigration changes. And the point there is to

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<v Speaker 1>focus family immigration on just nuclear family, husband's wives and

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<v Speaker 1>little kids, and then move all of those green card

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<v Speaker 1>numbers basically into a new merit based system where they

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<v Speaker 1>would pick people based on, you know, a point system

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<v Speaker 1>where you get points for you know, your degree and

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<v Speaker 1>what you're doing, what your age is, that sort of thing,

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<v Speaker 1>and then people who make the cut would be able

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<v Speaker 1>to get in. So all of that, I'm for. The

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<v Speaker 1>part that I'm worried about is that this doesn't even

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<v Speaker 1>have a token reduction in the overall level of immigration.

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<v Speaker 1>The president's proposal endorses the current one point one million

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<v Speaker 1>new legal immigrants a year, and even a little cut

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<v Speaker 1>would at least have acknowledged that there's potentially problems in

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<v Speaker 1>a modern society like ours and taking in more than

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<v Speaker 1>a million people every year from abroad. Yeah, I'm not

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<v Speaker 1>sure I'm with you on that there ought to be

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<v Speaker 1>a cut, but you're bringing that up introduces the question

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<v Speaker 1>what's the proper number? What is healthy? What is productive?

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<v Speaker 1>What is safe? What what is smart? And just that

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<v Speaker 1>question has been a taboo in a lot of circles,

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<v Speaker 1>which is just ridiculous and in a sense that debate

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<v Speaker 1>we need to have, and that's I mean, even people

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<v Speaker 1>who don't agree with me, it seems to me, should

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<v Speaker 1>embrace the idea that if this proposal had had even

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<v Speaker 1>just a five percent cut the visa lottery. They also

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<v Speaker 1>got rid of which is a ridiculous thing. We give

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<v Speaker 1>away fifty thousand green cards at random. If they got

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<v Speaker 1>rid of that and didn't really reallocate those numbers, it

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<v Speaker 1>would have been a tiny cut, maybe even four. But

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<v Speaker 1>people would then have gotten this debate going. And you know,

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<v Speaker 1>I don't think there is a magic number. Quite honestly,

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<v Speaker 1>the way I look at it is zero based budgeting.

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<v Speaker 1>You started zero because we're a continent spanning country with

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<v Speaker 1>a third of a billion people who invented the modern world.

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<v Speaker 1>I mean, I'm not sure we really need any immigration,

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<v Speaker 1>but let's have that debate. It start at zero, and

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<v Speaker 1>then which categories of people have such a compelling case

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<v Speaker 1>to come in that we let him in. Okay? What

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<v Speaker 1>our theme of the last hour was looking through Gallop

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<v Speaker 1>polling on immigration and the incredibly distorted view of America's opinions.

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<v Speaker 1>American's opinions that you get through the mainstream media in particular.

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<v Speaker 1>For instance, seventy seven percent of people think that the

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<v Speaker 1>large number number of illegal immigrants is a critical or

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<v Speaker 1>important threat to the United States. Seventies seven percent. If

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<v Speaker 1>you watch, you know, the mainstream news, you listen to

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<v Speaker 1>Democratic politicians in particular, you'd get the idea that there's

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<v Speaker 1>this hardcore of I don't know, maybe the country most

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<v Speaker 1>Republicans are just racists, and those are the only people

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<v Speaker 1>who want any reformed immigration law. Well, how do you

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<v Speaker 1>think drump got elected? I mean, that's kind of what

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<v Speaker 1>it amounts to, is that not even just the Democrats,

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<v Speaker 1>but much of the Republican elite just doesn't take this

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<v Speaker 1>issue seriously. And if that happens long enough, people are

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<v Speaker 1>gonna find somebody else who will take it seriously. And

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<v Speaker 1>you know what I mean. Look, President, the idea of

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<v Speaker 1>Donald Trump as president was a joke on The Simpsons

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<v Speaker 1>years ago. Um. And so the fact that he came

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<v Speaker 1>in and basically snatched the presidency out from both the

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<v Speaker 1>Republican and the Democratic establishment tells you that there was

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<v Speaker 1>an issue there that drew people to him in a

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<v Speaker 1>way that the elites just had no idea of. Right,

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<v Speaker 1>that's well said, and there are things the president says

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<v Speaker 1>about immigration that I think are just clumsy and ham handed,

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<v Speaker 1>and he creates more problems than he needs to create.

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<v Speaker 1>But those of you who are constantly throwing around the

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<v Speaker 1>r word racist about the president's policies and his fans.

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<v Speaker 1>Seventy seven percent of people said this is a serious problem,

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<v Speaker 1>and they were getting nothing from the people in d C.

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<v Speaker 1>And then Donald Trump said, this is a serious problem.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm gonna do something about it. And that is not

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<v Speaker 1>a difficult I mean, you don't need a degree in

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<v Speaker 1>political science to understand that connection. I don't think the

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<v Speaker 1>Democrats have learned that lesson. Quite frankly, some of the

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<v Speaker 1>Republican elite hasn't either. But look at what we're what

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<v Speaker 1>we're seeing at the border now. We are seeing last

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<v Speaker 1>month almost a hundred thousand people who came up because

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<v Speaker 1>of the loopholes in our law. If you bring a

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<v Speaker 1>kid with you, or if you say the magic word

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<v Speaker 1>of asylum or both, I fear for my life, they

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<v Speaker 1>let you go into the United States. Now you won't

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<v Speaker 1>get your If you apply for asylum, you'll almost certainly

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<v Speaker 1>be turned down because these people simply don't qualify. Some do,

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<v Speaker 1>but very few. But who's gonna go looking for you.

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<v Speaker 1>Ice has enough trouble finding the criminals they wanted the

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<v Speaker 1>port let alone an ordinary schmo who got turned down

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<v Speaker 1>for asylum. So that you would think the Democrats would

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<v Speaker 1>come to the president say, look, we disagree on a lot,

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<v Speaker 1>but this this really is an emergency. Let's so let's

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<v Speaker 1>get together and work on it. They're not doing it.

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<v Speaker 1>They hate Trump so much they refuse even to do

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<v Speaker 1>something that's in their own interests. Because if this continues

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<v Speaker 1>at the border for another year, it's gonna keep getting

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<v Speaker 1>worse and worse. There's a limit to what the president

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<v Speaker 1>can do with the current laws. This is going to

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<v Speaker 1>blow up in the Democrats face potentially. Mark Coran is

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<v Speaker 1>the executive director for the Center for Immigration Studies. I've

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<v Speaker 1>suggested many times that I don't think either party is

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<v Speaker 1>at all serious. I mean, the party elders that the real,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, pilots of the ship. I don't think they're

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<v Speaker 1>serious at all about solving immigration problems because I think

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<v Speaker 1>they'd prefer to have the issue. Do you agree or

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<v Speaker 1>to what extent do you disagree? Yeah? I don't know.

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<v Speaker 1>I mean I don't think that much forethought involved in it.

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<v Speaker 1>I think it's more that they're unwilling to take the

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<v Speaker 1>steps necessary. They're they're kind of um stuck in a mindset.

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<v Speaker 1>You know, give me, you're tired, you're poor. This must

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<v Speaker 1>be great, and we don't want to think too much

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<v Speaker 1>about it. And if we take certain steps, our business

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<v Speaker 1>constituents are gonna be angry, or in the Democrats, they're

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<v Speaker 1>left wing constituents are gonna be angry. And so I

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<v Speaker 1>don't think it's quite as premeditated as you suggest. I

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<v Speaker 1>think it's just an uncomfortable issue politicians wish would just

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<v Speaker 1>go away. So it's not dishonesty, it's cowardice your defense,

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<v Speaker 1>probably a little bit of both. Okay, all right, I

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<v Speaker 1>think we can compromise on my My other theory, Mark

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<v Speaker 1>is that if you could assemble fifteen randomly selected Americans,

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<v Speaker 1>put them in a room within forty eight hours, they

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<v Speaker 1>could have reasonable immigration reform. I mean they wouldn't get

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<v Speaker 1>down to the brass tacks and the sub paragraphs and

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<v Speaker 1>the rest of it, but they could design an immigration

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<v Speaker 1>system that would make sense and be very very popular. Probably,

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<v Speaker 1>But you know Congress is capable of that sometimes. What

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<v Speaker 1>I think the real problem is the real problem I

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<v Speaker 1>think in that we face now with the Gang of

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<v Speaker 1>Eight bill from years ago and before that under Bush

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<v Speaker 1>where they pushed that big amnesty. The problem was a

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<v Speaker 1>complete lack of trust that the elites will follow through

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<v Speaker 1>on their promises because the point always is, look, we're

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<v Speaker 1>gonna amnesty the people who've been here for a long time,

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<v Speaker 1>and that's a sympathetic argument. I kind of get that,

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<v Speaker 1>especially if they've been here a long time. They're not

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<v Speaker 1>murderers and rapists. The question is not amnestying the people

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<v Speaker 1>here now. The questions are we're gonna have another amnesty

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<v Speaker 1>five or ten or fifteen years from now because we

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<v Speaker 1>didn't enforce the rules. No one trusts the promises that

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<v Speaker 1>the politicians are going to enforce the rules starting tomorrow.

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<v Speaker 1>What about the doctor recipients. I'm actually kind of a

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<v Speaker 1>squish on the DOCTA thing. The problem is if you

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<v Speaker 1>just give them their green cards, you know, you legalize them,

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<v Speaker 1>because look, these are kids are growing up here. There's

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<v Speaker 1>an argument for that. Do we make sure there's not

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<v Speaker 1>another DOCTA five years from now, because any deal like

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<v Speaker 1>that has to have some enforcement measures to try to

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<v Speaker 1>limit the likelihood of future DOCA is happening, and has

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<v Speaker 1>to have some offset or pay for because if we're

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<v Speaker 1>gonna give eight hundred thousand, seven hundred thousand green cards

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<v Speaker 1>extra once to people, there needs to be eight or

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<v Speaker 1>seven hundred thousand fewer green cards for other people. These

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<v Speaker 1>people are getting a special deal. Why would we be

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<v Speaker 1>basically increasing immigration just to give them an amnesty. Are

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<v Speaker 1>there any racists at the Center for Immigration Studies or

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<v Speaker 1>would you tolerate any racists within your organization? Absolutely not.

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<v Speaker 1>You know, you're really doing a poor job of of

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<v Speaker 1>being a monster hard But so you're you're fine with

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<v Speaker 1>the DOCCA kids staying. You're okay with a path to

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<v Speaker 1>citizenship as long as they're serious enforcement in the future.

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<v Speaker 1>I just I'm really I'm underwhelmed. I'm doing white supremacy

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<v Speaker 1>all wrong here, bad at it. I'm telling you, as

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<v Speaker 1>we've said to the audience so many times, if you

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<v Speaker 1>are a good person and you have a reasonable, um

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<v Speaker 1>an ethical, a patriotic attitude toward immigration and legal immigration,

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<v Speaker 1>don't let anybody call you a racist. Don't be bullied,

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<v Speaker 1>Do not be bullied into silence. Yeah, that's become a

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<v Speaker 1>whole lot less stinging now. I mean especially, I mean

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<v Speaker 1>the Southern Poverty Law Center for Instances put us on

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<v Speaker 1>their hate group list right after President got inaugurated. Nothing

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<v Speaker 1>changed with us. It was just a political decision on

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<v Speaker 1>their part. They're on my You're a Joke list? Yeah. Well,

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<v Speaker 1>and the thing is there on more and more people's

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<v Speaker 1>You're a joke list. Yeah so Mark re correan has

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<v Speaker 1>to uh do another interview with some of our esteemed colleagues. Mark,

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<v Speaker 1>we could talk to you all day. We sure appreciate

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<v Speaker 1>the time. It's always a pleasure. Happy to do it. Thanks,

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<v Speaker 1>well done. More to come Armstrong and Getty Show