1 00:00:32,280 --> 00:00:37,600 Speaker 1: Critical to ending the border crisis is removing all incentives 2 00:00:37,680 --> 00:00:43,360 Speaker 1: for smuggling women and children. Part of the president's speech 3 00:00:43,360 --> 00:00:46,960 Speaker 1: there from the White House lawn about the new immigration 4 00:00:47,280 --> 00:00:52,120 Speaker 1: proposal floated by his administration, and to discuss that proposition 5 00:00:52,159 --> 00:00:53,840 Speaker 1: and some of the gallop poll numbers we were talking 6 00:00:53,880 --> 00:00:57,040 Speaker 1: about in in a lot more about immigration, illegal immigration. 7 00:00:57,040 --> 00:01:00,200 Speaker 1: Markeret Coryan joins us in studio. What an honor. Mark 8 00:01:00,320 --> 00:01:02,760 Speaker 1: is the executive director of the Center for Immigration Studies. 9 00:01:02,960 --> 00:01:04,720 Speaker 1: Market's good to you to come by, good to see 10 00:01:04,720 --> 00:01:07,320 Speaker 1: it in person, Glad to be here. Sure, we've talked 11 00:01:07,400 --> 00:01:09,600 Speaker 1: many many times through the years. So you want to 12 00:01:09,600 --> 00:01:12,240 Speaker 1: give us a brief reaction to the proposal what you 13 00:01:12,280 --> 00:01:15,440 Speaker 1: heard yesterday. There's a lot good in there, because part 14 00:01:15,440 --> 00:01:18,920 Speaker 1: of it is illegal immigration measures, in other words, plugging 15 00:01:18,920 --> 00:01:21,280 Speaker 1: these loopholes that are drawing people to the border that 16 00:01:21,360 --> 00:01:25,039 Speaker 1: the cartels are well aware of and exploit exactly. And 17 00:01:25,160 --> 00:01:27,520 Speaker 1: the other part, the one that's gotten more attention, is 18 00:01:27,560 --> 00:01:30,920 Speaker 1: the legal immigration changes. And the point there is to 19 00:01:31,040 --> 00:01:35,480 Speaker 1: focus family immigration on just nuclear family, husband's wives and 20 00:01:35,520 --> 00:01:39,399 Speaker 1: little kids, and then move all of those green card 21 00:01:39,520 --> 00:01:44,120 Speaker 1: numbers basically into a new merit based system where they 22 00:01:44,160 --> 00:01:48,080 Speaker 1: would pick people based on, you know, a point system 23 00:01:48,080 --> 00:01:50,200 Speaker 1: where you get points for you know, your degree and 24 00:01:50,280 --> 00:01:52,600 Speaker 1: what you're doing, what your age is, that sort of thing, 25 00:01:52,880 --> 00:01:55,240 Speaker 1: and then people who make the cut would be able 26 00:01:55,280 --> 00:01:58,000 Speaker 1: to get in. So all of that, I'm for. The 27 00:01:58,120 --> 00:02:01,080 Speaker 1: part that I'm worried about is that this doesn't even 28 00:02:01,120 --> 00:02:05,280 Speaker 1: have a token reduction in the overall level of immigration. 29 00:02:05,360 --> 00:02:10,359 Speaker 1: The president's proposal endorses the current one point one million 30 00:02:10,880 --> 00:02:13,919 Speaker 1: new legal immigrants a year, and even a little cut 31 00:02:14,600 --> 00:02:19,320 Speaker 1: would at least have acknowledged that there's potentially problems in 32 00:02:19,360 --> 00:02:22,280 Speaker 1: a modern society like ours and taking in more than 33 00:02:22,320 --> 00:02:25,200 Speaker 1: a million people every year from abroad. Yeah, I'm not 34 00:02:25,240 --> 00:02:27,400 Speaker 1: sure I'm with you on that there ought to be 35 00:02:27,440 --> 00:02:32,519 Speaker 1: a cut, but you're bringing that up introduces the question 36 00:02:33,360 --> 00:02:36,880 Speaker 1: what's the proper number? What is healthy? What is productive? 37 00:02:36,880 --> 00:02:39,720 Speaker 1: What is safe? What what is smart? And just that 38 00:02:39,960 --> 00:02:43,480 Speaker 1: question has been a taboo in a lot of circles, 39 00:02:43,480 --> 00:02:46,680 Speaker 1: which is just ridiculous and in a sense that debate 40 00:02:46,919 --> 00:02:50,160 Speaker 1: we need to have, and that's I mean, even people 41 00:02:50,600 --> 00:02:53,280 Speaker 1: who don't agree with me, it seems to me, should 42 00:02:53,680 --> 00:02:57,359 Speaker 1: embrace the idea that if this proposal had had even 43 00:02:57,400 --> 00:03:01,639 Speaker 1: just a five percent cut the visa lottery. They also 44 00:03:01,720 --> 00:03:03,600 Speaker 1: got rid of which is a ridiculous thing. We give 45 00:03:03,639 --> 00:03:06,400 Speaker 1: away fifty thousand green cards at random. If they got 46 00:03:06,440 --> 00:03:09,400 Speaker 1: rid of that and didn't really reallocate those numbers, it 47 00:03:09,400 --> 00:03:12,000 Speaker 1: would have been a tiny cut, maybe even four. But 48 00:03:12,120 --> 00:03:15,440 Speaker 1: people would then have gotten this debate going. And you know, 49 00:03:15,520 --> 00:03:17,640 Speaker 1: I don't think there is a magic number. Quite honestly, 50 00:03:17,680 --> 00:03:20,480 Speaker 1: the way I look at it is zero based budgeting. 51 00:03:20,600 --> 00:03:24,920 Speaker 1: You started zero because we're a continent spanning country with 52 00:03:24,960 --> 00:03:28,560 Speaker 1: a third of a billion people who invented the modern world. 53 00:03:28,720 --> 00:03:30,960 Speaker 1: I mean, I'm not sure we really need any immigration, 54 00:03:31,040 --> 00:03:33,560 Speaker 1: but let's have that debate. It start at zero, and 55 00:03:33,600 --> 00:03:37,760 Speaker 1: then which categories of people have such a compelling case 56 00:03:37,840 --> 00:03:40,880 Speaker 1: to come in that we let him in. Okay? What 57 00:03:40,960 --> 00:03:43,800 Speaker 1: our theme of the last hour was looking through Gallop 58 00:03:43,840 --> 00:03:49,680 Speaker 1: polling on immigration and the incredibly distorted view of America's opinions. 59 00:03:49,720 --> 00:03:52,920 Speaker 1: American's opinions that you get through the mainstream media in particular. 60 00:03:53,240 --> 00:03:56,520 Speaker 1: For instance, seventy seven percent of people think that the 61 00:03:56,600 --> 00:04:00,320 Speaker 1: large number number of illegal immigrants is a critical or 62 00:04:00,360 --> 00:04:05,800 Speaker 1: important threat to the United States. Seventies seven percent. If 63 00:04:05,840 --> 00:04:07,840 Speaker 1: you watch, you know, the mainstream news, you listen to 64 00:04:07,880 --> 00:04:10,760 Speaker 1: Democratic politicians in particular, you'd get the idea that there's 65 00:04:10,800 --> 00:04:15,360 Speaker 1: this hardcore of I don't know, maybe the country most 66 00:04:15,360 --> 00:04:18,320 Speaker 1: Republicans are just racists, and those are the only people 67 00:04:18,320 --> 00:04:21,840 Speaker 1: who want any reformed immigration law. Well, how do you 68 00:04:21,880 --> 00:04:23,640 Speaker 1: think drump got elected? I mean, that's kind of what 69 00:04:23,680 --> 00:04:26,680 Speaker 1: it amounts to, is that not even just the Democrats, 70 00:04:26,720 --> 00:04:29,720 Speaker 1: but much of the Republican elite just doesn't take this 71 00:04:29,800 --> 00:04:34,080 Speaker 1: issue seriously. And if that happens long enough, people are 72 00:04:34,080 --> 00:04:36,760 Speaker 1: gonna find somebody else who will take it seriously. And 73 00:04:36,839 --> 00:04:39,160 Speaker 1: you know what I mean. Look, President, the idea of 74 00:04:39,240 --> 00:04:41,600 Speaker 1: Donald Trump as president was a joke on The Simpsons 75 00:04:41,720 --> 00:04:44,920 Speaker 1: years ago. Um. And so the fact that he came 76 00:04:44,960 --> 00:04:49,039 Speaker 1: in and basically snatched the presidency out from both the 77 00:04:49,080 --> 00:04:53,320 Speaker 1: Republican and the Democratic establishment tells you that there was 78 00:04:53,320 --> 00:04:56,599 Speaker 1: an issue there that drew people to him in a 79 00:04:56,680 --> 00:04:59,800 Speaker 1: way that the elites just had no idea of. Right, 80 00:05:00,040 --> 00:05:01,960 Speaker 1: that's well said, and there are things the president says 81 00:05:01,960 --> 00:05:04,599 Speaker 1: about immigration that I think are just clumsy and ham handed, 82 00:05:04,680 --> 00:05:06,920 Speaker 1: and he creates more problems than he needs to create. 83 00:05:07,360 --> 00:05:10,640 Speaker 1: But those of you who are constantly throwing around the 84 00:05:10,760 --> 00:05:13,839 Speaker 1: r word racist about the president's policies and his fans. 85 00:05:14,800 --> 00:05:19,520 Speaker 1: Seventy seven percent of people said this is a serious problem, 86 00:05:19,560 --> 00:05:22,040 Speaker 1: and they were getting nothing from the people in d C. 87 00:05:22,200 --> 00:05:24,120 Speaker 1: And then Donald Trump said, this is a serious problem. 88 00:05:24,160 --> 00:05:26,520 Speaker 1: I'm gonna do something about it. And that is not 89 00:05:26,680 --> 00:05:29,200 Speaker 1: a difficult I mean, you don't need a degree in 90 00:05:29,200 --> 00:05:32,680 Speaker 1: political science to understand that connection. I don't think the 91 00:05:32,720 --> 00:05:35,720 Speaker 1: Democrats have learned that lesson. Quite frankly, some of the 92 00:05:35,760 --> 00:05:38,360 Speaker 1: Republican elite hasn't either. But look at what we're what 93 00:05:38,360 --> 00:05:41,279 Speaker 1: we're seeing at the border now. We are seeing last 94 00:05:41,320 --> 00:05:44,719 Speaker 1: month almost a hundred thousand people who came up because 95 00:05:44,720 --> 00:05:46,680 Speaker 1: of the loopholes in our law. If you bring a 96 00:05:46,760 --> 00:05:49,239 Speaker 1: kid with you, or if you say the magic word 97 00:05:49,240 --> 00:05:52,080 Speaker 1: of asylum or both, I fear for my life, they 98 00:05:52,160 --> 00:05:54,960 Speaker 1: let you go into the United States. Now you won't 99 00:05:55,000 --> 00:05:57,479 Speaker 1: get your If you apply for asylum, you'll almost certainly 100 00:05:57,520 --> 00:06:00,359 Speaker 1: be turned down because these people simply don't qualify. Some do, 101 00:06:00,520 --> 00:06:03,520 Speaker 1: but very few. But who's gonna go looking for you. 102 00:06:03,600 --> 00:06:06,080 Speaker 1: Ice has enough trouble finding the criminals they wanted the 103 00:06:06,160 --> 00:06:09,600 Speaker 1: port let alone an ordinary schmo who got turned down 104 00:06:09,640 --> 00:06:13,839 Speaker 1: for asylum. So that you would think the Democrats would 105 00:06:14,360 --> 00:06:16,479 Speaker 1: come to the president say, look, we disagree on a lot, 106 00:06:16,640 --> 00:06:19,159 Speaker 1: but this this really is an emergency. Let's so let's 107 00:06:19,200 --> 00:06:21,240 Speaker 1: get together and work on it. They're not doing it. 108 00:06:21,279 --> 00:06:25,280 Speaker 1: They hate Trump so much they refuse even to do 109 00:06:25,400 --> 00:06:27,719 Speaker 1: something that's in their own interests. Because if this continues 110 00:06:27,760 --> 00:06:30,400 Speaker 1: at the border for another year, it's gonna keep getting 111 00:06:30,440 --> 00:06:32,960 Speaker 1: worse and worse. There's a limit to what the president 112 00:06:33,000 --> 00:06:35,360 Speaker 1: can do with the current laws. This is going to 113 00:06:35,440 --> 00:06:38,440 Speaker 1: blow up in the Democrats face potentially. Mark Coran is 114 00:06:38,440 --> 00:06:41,960 Speaker 1: the executive director for the Center for Immigration Studies. I've 115 00:06:42,200 --> 00:06:45,320 Speaker 1: suggested many times that I don't think either party is 116 00:06:45,360 --> 00:06:48,680 Speaker 1: at all serious. I mean, the party elders that the real, 117 00:06:49,080 --> 00:06:51,080 Speaker 1: you know, pilots of the ship. I don't think they're 118 00:06:51,080 --> 00:06:54,000 Speaker 1: serious at all about solving immigration problems because I think 119 00:06:54,040 --> 00:06:57,039 Speaker 1: they'd prefer to have the issue. Do you agree or 120 00:06:57,080 --> 00:06:59,000 Speaker 1: to what extent do you disagree? Yeah? I don't know. 121 00:06:59,040 --> 00:07:01,719 Speaker 1: I mean I don't think that much forethought involved in it. 122 00:07:01,800 --> 00:07:05,800 Speaker 1: I think it's more that they're unwilling to take the 123 00:07:05,920 --> 00:07:10,440 Speaker 1: steps necessary. They're they're kind of um stuck in a mindset. 124 00:07:10,720 --> 00:07:12,680 Speaker 1: You know, give me, you're tired, you're poor. This must 125 00:07:12,680 --> 00:07:14,680 Speaker 1: be great, and we don't want to think too much 126 00:07:14,720 --> 00:07:19,400 Speaker 1: about it. And if we take certain steps, our business 127 00:07:19,480 --> 00:07:22,560 Speaker 1: constituents are gonna be angry, or in the Democrats, they're 128 00:07:22,760 --> 00:07:25,160 Speaker 1: left wing constituents are gonna be angry. And so I 129 00:07:25,440 --> 00:07:29,320 Speaker 1: don't think it's quite as premeditated as you suggest. I 130 00:07:29,320 --> 00:07:33,480 Speaker 1: think it's just an uncomfortable issue politicians wish would just 131 00:07:33,560 --> 00:07:36,800 Speaker 1: go away. So it's not dishonesty, it's cowardice your defense, 132 00:07:36,840 --> 00:07:39,080 Speaker 1: probably a little bit of both. Okay, all right, I 133 00:07:39,080 --> 00:07:42,320 Speaker 1: think we can compromise on my My other theory, Mark 134 00:07:42,480 --> 00:07:47,080 Speaker 1: is that if you could assemble fifteen randomly selected Americans, 135 00:07:48,000 --> 00:07:50,520 Speaker 1: put them in a room within forty eight hours, they 136 00:07:50,520 --> 00:07:55,320 Speaker 1: could have reasonable immigration reform. I mean they wouldn't get 137 00:07:55,320 --> 00:07:57,200 Speaker 1: down to the brass tacks and the sub paragraphs and 138 00:07:57,240 --> 00:07:59,640 Speaker 1: the rest of it, but they could design an immigration 139 00:07:59,680 --> 00:08:03,120 Speaker 1: system that would make sense and be very very popular. Probably, 140 00:08:03,360 --> 00:08:07,200 Speaker 1: But you know Congress is capable of that sometimes. What 141 00:08:07,320 --> 00:08:10,240 Speaker 1: I think the real problem is the real problem I 142 00:08:10,280 --> 00:08:12,920 Speaker 1: think in that we face now with the Gang of 143 00:08:12,920 --> 00:08:15,560 Speaker 1: Eight bill from years ago and before that under Bush 144 00:08:15,560 --> 00:08:18,680 Speaker 1: where they pushed that big amnesty. The problem was a 145 00:08:18,800 --> 00:08:23,240 Speaker 1: complete lack of trust that the elites will follow through 146 00:08:23,240 --> 00:08:25,720 Speaker 1: on their promises because the point always is, look, we're 147 00:08:25,720 --> 00:08:27,840 Speaker 1: gonna amnesty the people who've been here for a long time, 148 00:08:27,840 --> 00:08:29,960 Speaker 1: and that's a sympathetic argument. I kind of get that, 149 00:08:30,160 --> 00:08:31,840 Speaker 1: especially if they've been here a long time. They're not 150 00:08:31,960 --> 00:08:35,200 Speaker 1: murderers and rapists. The question is not amnestying the people 151 00:08:35,240 --> 00:08:37,240 Speaker 1: here now. The questions are we're gonna have another amnesty 152 00:08:37,280 --> 00:08:39,640 Speaker 1: five or ten or fifteen years from now because we 153 00:08:39,679 --> 00:08:43,720 Speaker 1: didn't enforce the rules. No one trusts the promises that 154 00:08:43,760 --> 00:08:46,640 Speaker 1: the politicians are going to enforce the rules starting tomorrow. 155 00:08:47,440 --> 00:08:50,920 Speaker 1: What about the doctor recipients. I'm actually kind of a 156 00:08:50,960 --> 00:08:53,840 Speaker 1: squish on the DOCTA thing. The problem is if you 157 00:08:54,000 --> 00:08:56,760 Speaker 1: just give them their green cards, you know, you legalize them, 158 00:08:56,760 --> 00:08:58,360 Speaker 1: because look, these are kids are growing up here. There's 159 00:08:58,360 --> 00:09:00,760 Speaker 1: an argument for that. Do we make sure there's not 160 00:09:00,800 --> 00:09:03,760 Speaker 1: another DOCTA five years from now, because any deal like 161 00:09:03,840 --> 00:09:07,400 Speaker 1: that has to have some enforcement measures to try to 162 00:09:07,480 --> 00:09:11,480 Speaker 1: limit the likelihood of future DOCA is happening, and has 163 00:09:11,520 --> 00:09:14,120 Speaker 1: to have some offset or pay for because if we're 164 00:09:14,120 --> 00:09:17,600 Speaker 1: gonna give eight hundred thousand, seven hundred thousand green cards 165 00:09:17,600 --> 00:09:20,680 Speaker 1: extra once to people, there needs to be eight or 166 00:09:20,679 --> 00:09:23,480 Speaker 1: seven hundred thousand fewer green cards for other people. These 167 00:09:23,480 --> 00:09:26,200 Speaker 1: people are getting a special deal. Why would we be 168 00:09:26,280 --> 00:09:29,760 Speaker 1: basically increasing immigration just to give them an amnesty. Are 169 00:09:29,800 --> 00:09:32,599 Speaker 1: there any racists at the Center for Immigration Studies or 170 00:09:32,600 --> 00:09:35,920 Speaker 1: would you tolerate any racists within your organization? Absolutely not. 171 00:09:36,200 --> 00:09:38,200 Speaker 1: You know, you're really doing a poor job of of 172 00:09:38,240 --> 00:09:42,480 Speaker 1: being a monster hard But so you're you're fine with 173 00:09:42,520 --> 00:09:45,360 Speaker 1: the DOCCA kids staying. You're okay with a path to 174 00:09:45,440 --> 00:09:48,440 Speaker 1: citizenship as long as they're serious enforcement in the future. 175 00:09:50,080 --> 00:09:53,360 Speaker 1: I just I'm really I'm underwhelmed. I'm doing white supremacy 176 00:09:53,440 --> 00:09:57,199 Speaker 1: all wrong here, bad at it. I'm telling you, as 177 00:09:57,280 --> 00:09:59,679 Speaker 1: we've said to the audience so many times, if you 178 00:10:00,000 --> 00:10:03,480 Speaker 1: are a good person and you have a reasonable, um 179 00:10:04,080 --> 00:10:08,320 Speaker 1: an ethical, a patriotic attitude toward immigration and legal immigration, 180 00:10:08,360 --> 00:10:10,720 Speaker 1: don't let anybody call you a racist. Don't be bullied, 181 00:10:10,760 --> 00:10:13,040 Speaker 1: Do not be bullied into silence. Yeah, that's become a 182 00:10:13,080 --> 00:10:17,400 Speaker 1: whole lot less stinging now. I mean especially, I mean 183 00:10:17,440 --> 00:10:19,920 Speaker 1: the Southern Poverty Law Center for Instances put us on 184 00:10:19,960 --> 00:10:24,160 Speaker 1: their hate group list right after President got inaugurated. Nothing 185 00:10:24,240 --> 00:10:26,440 Speaker 1: changed with us. It was just a political decision on 186 00:10:26,480 --> 00:10:29,120 Speaker 1: their part. They're on my You're a Joke list? Yeah. Well, 187 00:10:29,160 --> 00:10:31,000 Speaker 1: and the thing is there on more and more people's 188 00:10:31,040 --> 00:10:34,080 Speaker 1: You're a joke list. Yeah so Mark re correan has 189 00:10:34,120 --> 00:10:36,959 Speaker 1: to uh do another interview with some of our esteemed colleagues. Mark, 190 00:10:37,040 --> 00:10:38,680 Speaker 1: we could talk to you all day. We sure appreciate 191 00:10:38,720 --> 00:10:40,760 Speaker 1: the time. It's always a pleasure. Happy to do it. Thanks, 192 00:10:40,840 --> 00:10:42,840 Speaker 1: well done. More to come Armstrong and Getty Show