WEBVTT - Ep. 29: Whitetail Science with Dr. Bronson Strickland, Part 2 0:00:12.080 --> 0:00:14.560 Welcome back to Cutting the Distance, where I continue my 0:00:14.600 --> 0:00:17.919 conversation with Dr Bronson Strickland. He's a professor of wildlife 0:00:17.960 --> 0:00:21.439 Management at Mississippi State University. He's the co director of 0:00:21.600 --> 0:00:23.799 m s u S Deer Lab and co host of 0:00:23.800 --> 0:00:26.800 the Deer University podcast. If you'd like to go back 0:00:27.000 --> 0:00:29.600 and listen to Part one, we cover listener questions on 0:00:29.760 --> 0:00:32.760 at what age would you start making decisions on buck management, 0:00:32.920 --> 0:00:35.519 what year round food strategy should you be employing for 0:00:35.560 --> 0:00:37.839 the healthiest deer, as well some of my own questions 0:00:37.920 --> 0:00:42.120 on genetic potential, nutrients, mother's health, and environmental factors and 0:00:42.159 --> 0:00:44.920 how those all add up to a buck's potential and 0:00:45.159 --> 0:00:47.520 how you go about managing those for better heart health. 0:00:47.680 --> 0:00:50.760 If you enjoy this conversation with Dr Bronson Strickland, make 0:00:50.800 --> 0:00:52.879 sure go back and check out part one if you 0:00:52.920 --> 0:00:59.800 haven't already. All right, we're gonna digress um from Doma 0:01:00.280 --> 0:01:03.480 a little bit, and uh, this will be a little 0:01:03.520 --> 0:01:07.000 more universal amongst all areas. I know the times may change, 0:01:07.120 --> 0:01:10.160 but you know you hear everybody with their systems like 0:01:10.240 --> 0:01:12.319 this is how these are the phases of the rut. 0:01:12.400 --> 0:01:14.679 This is I'm gonna ask you to kind of break down. 0:01:14.920 --> 0:01:17.960 You know, whether it's the beginning of September. Shoot, you 0:01:18.160 --> 0:01:20.080 you know down in the South, you guys are probably going, 0:01:20.240 --> 0:01:22.800 you know, the rut. You know, parts or portions of 0:01:22.800 --> 0:01:25.000 the rut go all the way into January. Breakdown kind 0:01:25.000 --> 0:01:29.360 of what you feel or you know, major milestones in 0:01:29.360 --> 0:01:32.360 in buck behavior, you know, from throughout the rut, you know, 0:01:32.400 --> 0:01:35.000 starting in September ending in late January. UM, and I 0:01:35.040 --> 0:01:36.640 know it's going to change a little bit based on 0:01:36.840 --> 0:01:39.959 you know, where you're at. If you don't mind, I'm 0:01:39.959 --> 0:01:43.080 gonna back it up another month then include August UH. 0:01:43.319 --> 0:01:48.520 August September UH. That is when bucks are typically still 0:01:48.560 --> 0:01:52.320 within their bachelor groups, and so they are tolerant of 0:01:52.320 --> 0:01:55.120 one another. They are typically still in velvet or coming 0:01:55.120 --> 0:01:58.080 out of velvet, and biologically what is going on there 0:01:58.600 --> 0:02:01.760 is the level of testos drown in their bloodstream. So 0:02:01.880 --> 0:02:05.720 bucks tolerate each other when they're in velvet because testosterone 0:02:05.800 --> 0:02:10.000 levels are very very low. So when the velvet shedding 0:02:10.200 --> 0:02:13.880 process begins, that is when testosterone begins to spike. That 0:02:13.960 --> 0:02:17.160 is when antler hardening happens. And that is also when 0:02:17.200 --> 0:02:20.799 these bachelor groups start breaking up because they don't want 0:02:20.800 --> 0:02:23.120 to look at their buddy anymore. They just want to fight, 0:02:23.760 --> 0:02:25.440 and so that is when they're gonna go back and 0:02:25.639 --> 0:02:29.120 back to probably the previous fall, the area that that 0:02:29.200 --> 0:02:34.000 they occupied it and that home range. Typically, let's just 0:02:34.080 --> 0:02:37.200 say now in the southeast, if if you peek your 0:02:37.280 --> 0:02:40.799 ruts end of November December, then you have a couple 0:02:40.800 --> 0:02:43.800 of months to where those bucks are again gonna be 0:02:44.120 --> 0:02:49.040 setting up their their social hierarchies. They're gonna be refamiliarizing 0:02:49.080 --> 0:02:52.200 theirselves with their territory. And then when you start getting 0:02:52.200 --> 0:02:55.920 about three weeks, two weeks, et cetera before the peak 0:02:56.000 --> 0:02:58.440 of the rut, that is when you're gonna see the 0:02:58.680 --> 0:03:02.280 most scraping activity d That's when they're they're running their 0:03:02.280 --> 0:03:05.760 trap line and they're putting their calling card out there 0:03:05.800 --> 0:03:09.160 on the landscape. And that is typically Jason when most 0:03:09.200 --> 0:03:12.560 people think that the peak of the rut is most 0:03:12.600 --> 0:03:16.200 often that is the pre rut that hunters think is 0:03:16.240 --> 0:03:18.200 the peak of the rut. The peak of the rut 0:03:18.240 --> 0:03:21.000 is gonna be two to three weeks later when there's 0:03:21.040 --> 0:03:25.000 gonna be less visible dear activity because bucks are engaged 0:03:25.000 --> 0:03:28.480 in courting dough, so they're they're locked up, and then 0:03:28.520 --> 0:03:30.480 that's gonna go on. If you're up north, it might 0:03:30.520 --> 0:03:32.120 be two to three weeks. If you're in the South, 0:03:32.200 --> 0:03:34.480 it might be about a month. And then after that 0:03:36.560 --> 0:03:40.200 of your dose have been bred, and then bucks are 0:03:40.200 --> 0:03:45.800 gonna start focusing on uh rebuilding their their tissue. They've 0:03:45.840 --> 0:03:49.400 lost ten of their body weight. That's when we see 0:03:49.440 --> 0:03:53.120 them focusing back on food again. So that's a good 0:03:53.200 --> 0:03:56.840 hunter's tip right there, as you always include food in 0:03:56.880 --> 0:04:00.320 the equation after the peak of the rut um and 0:04:00.360 --> 0:04:04.760 then they'll start taking advantage of those stragglers. It might 0:04:04.800 --> 0:04:07.560 be a dough fawn that's coming into heat for the 0:04:07.600 --> 0:04:10.800 first time. It could be an adult dough that was 0:04:10.880 --> 0:04:14.160 bred during the peak of the rut, but for whatever reason, 0:04:14.280 --> 0:04:17.520 just like humans, she was bred but didn't conceive and 0:04:17.600 --> 0:04:20.560 become pregnant. Thirty days later, she's gonna cycle and come 0:04:20.560 --> 0:04:23.080 back into heat again. So that's when you'll see that 0:04:23.080 --> 0:04:27.440 that trickle or that second rut is occurring. Then, yeah, 0:04:27.440 --> 0:04:29.640 thanks for thanks for breaking that down. We got to 0:04:29.720 --> 0:04:32.479 hunt Kansas kind of i'd say, right on the front 0:04:32.560 --> 0:04:34.599 end of lockdown, and it was a little bit frustrating 0:04:34.640 --> 0:04:37.120 those guys like to kill their their bigger bucks. I 0:04:37.160 --> 0:04:42.159 would you know, October and maybe even earlier because they're 0:04:42.160 --> 0:04:45.000 more patternable. They they're starting to you know, like the 0:04:45.160 --> 0:04:47.440 like you said, they're they're scraping pre rut, they're marking 0:04:47.440 --> 0:04:50.480 their territory. There's still somewhat patternable. And then when we 0:04:50.520 --> 0:04:52.599 got there, like it's very very fun to hunt the rut, 0:04:53.160 --> 0:04:55.400 but the deer that we're on cam's a week ago, 0:04:55.760 --> 0:04:58.400 just we're gone. They had found a dough ranner off 0:04:58.440 --> 0:05:01.240 somewhere didn't care to be out. Like I say, it's 0:05:01.240 --> 0:05:02.920 a it's a little bit of a love hate, like 0:05:03.000 --> 0:05:04.520 I love being out there during the rut. But it 0:05:04.600 --> 0:05:07.560 was also like Randy, we have all these pictures of 0:05:07.560 --> 0:05:09.680 bucks on camera, like they're around, like we would see 0:05:09.720 --> 0:05:11.520 them maybe one of the four or five days, but 0:05:11.520 --> 0:05:13.440 then they were just you know, off again. They'd get 0:05:13.440 --> 0:05:15.800 on the dough and and then take off. So no, 0:05:16.080 --> 0:05:18.120 thanks for breaking that right down. That that helps, you know, 0:05:18.360 --> 0:05:21.000 me understand kind of those phases versus you know, some 0:05:21.040 --> 0:05:23.000 of these people out there have got twenty eight phases 0:05:23.000 --> 0:05:25.480 of the rut, you know, like they're gonna between this day. 0:05:25.480 --> 0:05:27.719 I might, well, that's so hard to manage. You know, 0:05:27.800 --> 0:05:29.680 if you can break it down to like just a 0:05:29.680 --> 0:05:31.640 few phases, like you said, and what you should be 0:05:31.640 --> 0:05:34.400 focusing on, makes it makes it a little easier for 0:05:34.400 --> 0:05:36.200 a hunter to they don't have to think that hard. 0:05:37.120 --> 0:05:40.280 And that's what's that's what's fun about the rut, but 0:05:40.400 --> 0:05:43.239 can also be frustrating is what we we think about 0:05:43.240 --> 0:05:46.240 the rut and anything can happen. I think that the 0:05:46.320 --> 0:05:50.960 rut equal random. Anything can happen any time of the day. Um. 0:05:51.000 --> 0:05:53.880 But but at the same time, you're you don't have 0:05:53.920 --> 0:05:57.600 that reliability and the patterns that are that are established. 0:05:57.640 --> 0:06:01.040 So but Jason, if you were gonna see if if 0:06:01.080 --> 0:06:03.320 now you were going to be that person to shoot 0:06:03.400 --> 0:06:06.880 the neighbor's buck that they've been managing all these years, 0:06:06.880 --> 0:06:08.800 it's probably gonna beat dround the peak of the road. Yeah, 0:06:09.040 --> 0:06:10.479 it's yeah, it's the one time you could if you 0:06:10.560 --> 0:06:13.160 had a dough that crosses on Yeah, you can pull in. 0:06:14.080 --> 0:06:18.239 And I you know, I I I'm very um, you know, curious, 0:06:18.240 --> 0:06:20.080 So I asked all kinds of questions. Randy probably got 0:06:20.160 --> 0:06:22.159 Randy and and Chris Parrish was a hunt with us 0:06:22.200 --> 0:06:24.320 there at the place at the same time. And you know, 0:06:24.400 --> 0:06:26.120 ask those guys that have spent a lot more time 0:06:26.120 --> 0:06:28.160 in a white tail stand these same questions, like what 0:06:28.200 --> 0:06:30.680 are the chances you know, have you guys killed bucks that? 0:06:31.480 --> 0:06:33.720 And they the numbers seem to be low, like it 0:06:33.800 --> 0:06:36.320 can happen. But they said, you know, Randy's couple of 0:06:36.320 --> 0:06:38.839 properties or you know, a couple hundred acres apiece scattered 0:06:38.839 --> 0:06:41.240 about and you know, very rarely does he say they 0:06:41.680 --> 0:06:43.480 end up with a buck that they didn't cut, you know, 0:06:43.480 --> 0:06:45.880 know about It does happen, but but not very often. 0:06:45.960 --> 0:06:48.360 You usually they know what's there, they don't they don't 0:06:48.400 --> 0:06:51.200 have the scragglers. But you know, I also see the 0:06:51.240 --> 0:06:53.320 advantages I'm looking for property there, like you can get 0:06:53.320 --> 0:06:56.200 the right eighty acres and you know, a smaller piece 0:06:56.200 --> 0:06:58.760 with different landowners, and the probability of killing the buck 0:06:58.800 --> 0:07:01.839 that's not on your place probably goes up tremendously because 0:07:01.839 --> 0:07:05.279 you can't hold all those, dear all the time, and you're, um, 0:07:05.360 --> 0:07:08.479 that makes sense, yeah, and and you know you're getting 0:07:08.520 --> 0:07:11.320 back to the whole uh patterning, dear, you know the 0:07:11.880 --> 0:07:15.280 one thing that you can never account for, and that 0:07:15.400 --> 0:07:19.760 is these excursions and it's these things that uh, you know, 0:07:20.320 --> 0:07:22.720 as a researcher, I didn't put a lot of faith 0:07:22.760 --> 0:07:26.200 into when when hunters were reporting this a decade or 0:07:26.240 --> 0:07:29.120 more ago, evidence they were getting from trail cameras up 0:07:29.440 --> 0:07:31.680 we've never seen this buck. And he was here for 0:07:31.720 --> 0:07:33.520 a week or two weeks and then he was gone, 0:07:34.000 --> 0:07:36.840 and then a year later at the exact same time, 0:07:36.880 --> 0:07:39.080 I mean literally down to the week or three days, 0:07:39.160 --> 0:07:42.160 like this buck is back again. I didn't buy into 0:07:42.160 --> 0:07:44.160 any of that. I was like, there's no biological reason 0:07:44.200 --> 0:07:46.040 for that to occur. But when you put a GPS 0:07:46.120 --> 0:07:50.960 caller on a bunch of bucks, that does occur, absolutely happens. Yeah. 0:07:51.040 --> 0:07:53.960 I I think Mark Drewy had he called a buck, 0:07:54.040 --> 0:07:55.760 you know, he had the same thing. It would disappear 0:07:55.800 --> 0:07:57.720 like almost to the date and then wouldn't come back 0:07:57.800 --> 0:07:59.520 until the fall. And it didn't even come back one 0:07:59.600 --> 0:08:01.920 year at all. And it's just to me, that's mind boggling. 0:08:01.960 --> 0:08:04.200 And I'm gonna ask you a question. I'm sure you're 0:08:04.240 --> 0:08:08.120 probably maybe you'll have answer, like, is there any understanding 0:08:08.160 --> 0:08:09.920 on what just makes that buck say, you know what, 0:08:09.920 --> 0:08:12.320 I'm gonna pop up today and go a mile away 0:08:12.320 --> 0:08:14.520 on a different farm, just completely leave an area I've 0:08:14.520 --> 0:08:19.000 been for the last nine months. Um uh that that 0:08:19.000 --> 0:08:21.680 that that's a tough one, you know. So we think 0:08:21.720 --> 0:08:24.320 of um, I guess I think of it as short term, 0:08:24.360 --> 0:08:27.440 long term. You know, in the short term, could there 0:08:27.480 --> 0:08:31.119 be some kind of que like I'm getting a whiff 0:08:31.160 --> 0:08:34.160 of an extra dough, so I'm gonna move. Uh man, 0:08:34.240 --> 0:08:36.560 I'm hungry, you know, I'm not getting what I need. 0:08:36.760 --> 0:08:39.680 There's a whole bunch of hunting pressure right here, so 0:08:39.679 --> 0:08:42.200 so I'm gonna leave. I would call those, you know, 0:08:42.320 --> 0:08:45.480 short term. But but then we also, Jason, have some 0:08:45.720 --> 0:08:51.680 longer terms. Where why every single year on November does 0:08:51.720 --> 0:08:55.319 this buck get up and move five miles away we 0:08:55.440 --> 0:08:59.560 gotta bucking in Mississippi. That in February every year he 0:08:59.640 --> 0:09:02.959 leaves the Mississippi, swims the Mississippi River, and spence his 0:09:03.040 --> 0:09:08.040 summer in Louisiana. Now, now tell me why try to 0:09:08.080 --> 0:09:11.880 be logical about that? Why invoke all this risk moving 0:09:11.960 --> 0:09:14.120 that far and swim in the river, and and then 0:09:14.200 --> 0:09:16.840 come August that same buck moves right back to Mississippi 0:09:16.880 --> 0:09:20.360 and spends his hunting season over here. I don't know, 0:09:20.800 --> 0:09:22.200 I don't know. I think it I think it all 0:09:22.200 --> 0:09:25.079 be speculation. Unless you know, we could somehow figure that out. 0:09:25.120 --> 0:09:27.840 You know, I me wanting to have an answer. You know, 0:09:27.840 --> 0:09:29.720 as a as an engineer, there should be an answer 0:09:29.800 --> 0:09:31.800 to everything. So you know, what goes through my mind 0:09:31.880 --> 0:09:34.800 is like, were they at four and a half? Was 0:09:34.840 --> 0:09:36.760 he not that you know they're going to definitely be 0:09:36.840 --> 0:09:39.600 in the rut, but maybe there was a pecking order issue. 0:09:39.600 --> 0:09:40.959 And then by five and a half he's like one 0:09:41.080 --> 0:09:43.480 mature enough and there's another buck that's hanging around here 0:09:43.520 --> 0:09:45.280 that just won't give me the chance, and I'm gonna 0:09:45.280 --> 0:09:47.600 go find my own spot where maybe there there isn't 0:09:47.600 --> 0:09:49.640 a morem You know, it's like we could speculate all 0:09:49.679 --> 0:09:52.480 day long why does it? But it's just always intriguing 0:09:52.600 --> 0:09:55.840 on how you could have such consistent, you know, patterns 0:09:55.840 --> 0:09:58.079 on a deer and then just you know, that excursion 0:09:58.120 --> 0:10:00.240 takes place where, like you said, a deer that's whims 0:10:00.240 --> 0:10:02.800 the river at a certain time and comes back. It's 0:10:02.840 --> 0:10:05.800 just yeah, I guess that's that's what makes it fun. 0:10:05.800 --> 0:10:08.320 They do things because they're dear and we may never 0:10:08.400 --> 0:10:12.000 understand why why they do it? What what we think? 0:10:12.240 --> 0:10:14.760 We have no way to prove this, of course, but 0:10:14.960 --> 0:10:17.960 what we kind of think it's a biologist would call 0:10:18.000 --> 0:10:20.960 it kind of a vestigial trait. It's just something buried 0:10:21.120 --> 0:10:24.280 pretty deep in their genome. I just think there's a 0:10:24.320 --> 0:10:27.360 fraction of deer, just like within human beings, there's a 0:10:27.400 --> 0:10:29.880 fraction of humans hundreds of years ago that wanted to 0:10:29.880 --> 0:10:33.920 be explorers, their risk takers. The grass is always greener, 0:10:33.920 --> 0:10:37.160 they're going for the gold, etcetera. And they're willing to 0:10:37.280 --> 0:10:40.720 risk their life to do it. And white till deer, 0:10:40.760 --> 0:10:45.320 we always say they're a colonizing species, are always you know, moving, expanding, 0:10:45.360 --> 0:10:48.080 looking for the better food, better cover, etcetera. And I 0:10:48.120 --> 0:10:52.080 think there's just always a small fraction of individuals and 0:10:52.120 --> 0:10:54.480 in this case bucks that are just willing to pick 0:10:54.559 --> 0:10:57.000 up and move. But I can't say it's even just 0:10:57.000 --> 0:11:03.480 just bucks. This was uh, definitely exacerbated by floodwaters adjacent 0:11:03.480 --> 0:11:05.800 to the Mississippi River. We we had to do also 0:11:05.840 --> 0:11:08.480 pick up and move twenty miles away and set up camp. 0:11:08.640 --> 0:11:12.040 So it happens with both of them that that's crazy. 0:11:12.040 --> 0:11:15.760 That's starting to get comparable to the western like winter migrations, 0:11:15.880 --> 0:11:17.960 you know, at the point that moving that far and yeah, 0:11:18.040 --> 0:11:20.600 like I said, it's all speculation. Another thought is like, 0:11:20.880 --> 0:11:23.360 you know when is that where he was born? Where 0:11:23.360 --> 0:11:25.000 his mom Like, you know, it's like and and he 0:11:25.120 --> 0:11:27.400 moved off and just is coming back. Well, we may 0:11:27.440 --> 0:11:29.959 never know, so I'm gonna digress because we could probably 0:11:30.000 --> 0:11:32.720 talk in circles on that one all day. Um. The 0:11:32.760 --> 0:11:35.080 next one is a western hunter. Um, you know, an 0:11:35.080 --> 0:11:37.400 elk hunter that's on the ground trying to get very 0:11:37.480 --> 0:11:40.120 very close. You know, wind is always key, but to 0:11:40.480 --> 0:11:44.400 piggyback on wind is sent um. You know, being a 0:11:44.480 --> 0:11:47.439 brand new white tail hunter one of my biggest things. 0:11:47.480 --> 0:11:49.599 What you know, these the white tail hunters are you know, 0:11:49.600 --> 0:11:51.520 they're spraying their clothes with all this stuff. They've got 0:11:51.520 --> 0:11:54.520 some sort of scent locker, scent crusher, some sort of 0:11:54.760 --> 0:11:56.960 a cabinet with ozone, and you know, I'm like watching 0:11:57.000 --> 0:11:58.599 what seems to me as a Western hunter is a 0:11:58.640 --> 0:12:01.600 little bit crazy because we just like, I have to breathe. 0:12:01.600 --> 0:12:03.240 I'm gonna sweat to death out here in the West, 0:12:03.280 --> 0:12:05.440 climbing mountains. I'm just gonna keep the wind in my 0:12:05.480 --> 0:12:08.440 face at all times. But stand hunting, it was very 0:12:08.480 --> 0:12:10.360 obvious that you can't get into your stand, you can't 0:12:10.360 --> 0:12:11.920 protect the wind at all times. You got deer on 0:12:11.960 --> 0:12:15.480 the ground, You're letting them come to you, So wind 0:12:15.720 --> 0:12:18.240 and and scent becomes a little bit You're I don't 0:12:18.240 --> 0:12:19.959 want to say you're giving them the wind, but you were. 0:12:20.080 --> 0:12:22.160 You had to risk the wind a little bit more 0:12:22.160 --> 0:12:24.240 than I can't elk cunning, because elk cunning, I can 0:12:24.280 --> 0:12:25.880 hear a bowld bi aggling. I'm just gonna walk a 0:12:26.000 --> 0:12:29.400 ninety degree you know. Uh, I'm gonna walk ninety degrees 0:12:29.400 --> 0:12:31.000 to my left and get the wind better, so I can, 0:12:31.120 --> 0:12:32.720 you know, play it right where I'm not worried about 0:12:32.760 --> 0:12:34.839 what's behind me or what maybe in the adjacent betting 0:12:34.840 --> 0:12:38.160 area whatnot. So what with that all said? Uh, my 0:12:38.240 --> 0:12:40.520 understanding or just from what I've read, maybe even a 0:12:40.559 --> 0:12:42.520 research that you've done, is that you know, a dear 0:12:42.559 --> 0:12:44.600 sense of smell can be anywhere from tune and fifty 0:12:44.640 --> 0:12:47.400 two a hundred times more acute than than human smells. 0:12:47.440 --> 0:12:50.040 So you're right off the bat, you're not gonna get 0:12:50.040 --> 0:12:55.040 away with much. But I'm gonna I'm gonna have multiple 0:12:55.080 --> 0:12:58.480 questions here, but like what smells matter was was always 0:12:58.760 --> 0:13:02.440 you know, I'm curious about is it human odor? Is 0:13:02.480 --> 0:13:05.800 it um? You know the the laundry detergent I washed 0:13:05.800 --> 0:13:07.560 my clothes with is at the breakfast breed I may 0:13:07.600 --> 0:13:09.320 have build on my hunting pants that morning on the 0:13:09.320 --> 0:13:14.400 way to the stand um in your opinion, due to 0:13:14.440 --> 0:13:17.120 the types of smells matter and and is there any 0:13:17.120 --> 0:13:21.959 research to support you know what smells matter? That that 0:13:21.960 --> 0:13:25.920 that that that last little part you said there is tough. Um. 0:13:26.360 --> 0:13:29.080 I would say there is, there's research to support that 0:13:29.240 --> 0:13:33.880 absolutely smell is gonna matter. But but it's really difficult 0:13:33.960 --> 0:13:38.600 for us to disentangle exactly what that smell is. What 0:13:39.080 --> 0:13:43.160 you know, why is this particular of molecule gonna elicit 0:13:43.200 --> 0:13:46.920 a response in a deer that another scent molecule won't. 0:13:47.040 --> 0:13:50.520 And one example that that I can give you that 0:13:50.640 --> 0:13:53.640 for me open my eyes and too how complicated this 0:13:53.840 --> 0:13:57.040 is is? Uh? Steve and I did did an experiment 0:13:57.320 --> 0:14:01.440 here at Mississippi State where we worked with the chemists 0:14:01.760 --> 0:14:06.160 with all the sophisticated equipment where they could they could 0:14:06.200 --> 0:14:09.160 detect the the acronym they use or v O C 0:14:09.400 --> 0:14:13.640 S volatile organic compounds that we emit, and we would 0:14:13.640 --> 0:14:16.440 put on this suit and they would extract the air 0:14:16.559 --> 0:14:19.400 that came off of us and and it was literally 0:14:19.920 --> 0:14:24.280 over a hundred different compounds, and it could vary from 0:14:24.280 --> 0:14:28.600 individual to individual as well. And uh, that just I 0:14:28.640 --> 0:14:30.600 just remembered something I saw on the news a couple 0:14:30.600 --> 0:14:34.120 of weeks ago regarding um this new research. But that 0:14:34.240 --> 0:14:37.760 is showing something humans have noticed for a long time. 0:14:38.080 --> 0:14:40.000 You know, Jason, why is it whenever you and I 0:14:40.000 --> 0:14:43.600 are together? Why are mosquitoes all over you? But they're 0:14:43.640 --> 0:14:47.720 not as much on me? Well, end up this this 0:14:47.840 --> 0:14:50.760 same kind of study. They actually were able to isolate 0:14:50.800 --> 0:14:55.440 it down to a particular compound and this particular genome, 0:14:55.720 --> 0:15:00.680 this expression of this gene, and this person. They manufacture 0:15:00.760 --> 0:15:04.400 more of this compound and the mosquitoes queued in on it. Now, 0:15:04.440 --> 0:15:06.600 that kind of got off track a little bit, But 0:15:06.680 --> 0:15:11.200 the bottom line is that it's hard to define what 0:15:11.440 --> 0:15:15.479 is human scent because it's a whole bunch of different compounds. 0:15:15.560 --> 0:15:19.360 And is there any way to truly and effectively suppress 0:15:19.560 --> 0:15:23.040 or eliminate all those different sense that a deer can 0:15:23.120 --> 0:15:26.280 detect detect. I can't say from a research per sective, 0:15:26.360 --> 0:15:29.240 yes or no, but I find it very very unlikely 0:15:29.800 --> 0:15:35.720 that that you can do that. And another example, Jason, Uh, 0:15:35.880 --> 0:15:38.240 this seems to resonate with people very well. When I 0:15:38.280 --> 0:15:41.800 talked to him, is if we want to compare a 0:15:41.800 --> 0:15:44.480 deer's nose to a dog's nose, which I think is 0:15:44.480 --> 0:15:47.640 a really good comparison. We all know a bloodhound and 0:15:47.680 --> 0:15:50.880 that you know how how good they are. Um, But 0:15:50.880 --> 0:15:54.960 but we have dogs now, like cadaver dogs. We have 0:15:55.120 --> 0:15:57.960 dogs that can at least there's a lot of research 0:15:58.040 --> 0:16:02.320 showing they can tell if some one has Parkinson's disease 0:16:02.440 --> 0:16:05.560 or not. We we have and I know this intimately 0:16:05.640 --> 0:16:08.680 in my family. There there are service dogs Jason, that 0:16:08.760 --> 0:16:10.560 could be in the room with you right now, and 0:16:10.600 --> 0:16:14.560 if you were Type one diabetic, they could tell if 0:16:14.600 --> 0:16:21.400 your blood glucose level was above or below a threshold. Now, 0:16:22.440 --> 0:16:27.360 to me, if we're how how do you completely cover 0:16:27.680 --> 0:16:30.920 that up? I just don't think you can. But what 0:16:31.040 --> 0:16:34.680 I think you can do are the odds. You put 0:16:34.720 --> 0:16:37.120 the odds in your favor. You know, of course, you 0:16:37.160 --> 0:16:40.360 don't want to be eating a bacon and you know, 0:16:40.560 --> 0:16:43.880 sausage biscuit and smoking a cigar and have diesel fuel 0:16:43.960 --> 0:16:46.640 on your boots and all that kind of stuff. Um, 0:16:46.680 --> 0:16:50.120 but it's it's it's really hard to manage for that yeah, 0:16:50.160 --> 0:16:52.080 and so it's just to be over and that's where 0:16:52.120 --> 0:16:54.680 I kind of got to is is just being over 0:16:54.720 --> 0:16:58.680 critical on sense like just I may never know, you know, 0:16:58.760 --> 0:17:01.040 in in the you know, you the moment, what matters 0:17:01.080 --> 0:17:02.960 or what doesn't. But if I control and take care 0:17:03.040 --> 0:17:04.439 of as much of that, you know, so when you 0:17:04.560 --> 0:17:06.080 get back to the house, you take all your hunting 0:17:06.080 --> 0:17:08.000 clothes off before you cook breakfast, you know, and and 0:17:08.040 --> 0:17:10.080 just try to manage it to the highest level possible. 0:17:10.080 --> 0:17:11.639 I figure that's the best bet because you know, you're 0:17:11.680 --> 0:17:13.360 always gonna have to breathe, and if that's what they're 0:17:13.359 --> 0:17:15.480 picking up, you're you're gonna be you know, you're gonna 0:17:15.520 --> 0:17:17.440 get picked off. And um, you know that kind of 0:17:17.520 --> 0:17:20.880 leads onto the better or not the better. The safer 0:17:20.920 --> 0:17:22.879 play is just make sure that the wind is always 0:17:22.920 --> 0:17:24.840 in the right the right place and your stands in 0:17:24.880 --> 0:17:27.520 the right place, um, and make sure that they don't 0:17:27.560 --> 0:17:30.160 have a chance to smell you. Um. For that that's 0:17:30.240 --> 0:17:34.119 the that's the proactive thing that you can control, is 0:17:34.119 --> 0:17:38.119 positioning yourself in the wind. Yeah. Um. One last question 0:17:38.160 --> 0:17:41.080 on on sand and and I know this is a 0:17:41.280 --> 0:17:45.040 very a very nuanced question because you know, a one 0:17:45.119 --> 0:17:46.960 to two mile hour winds different than a seven to 0:17:47.040 --> 0:17:49.960 ten versus a eighteen to twenty. We talked about this 0:17:50.000 --> 0:17:53.600 a little bit before we we got hit the record button. Um, 0:17:53.640 --> 0:17:55.960 you know, out west, as I'm approaching Elk, I'm always wondering, 0:17:55.960 --> 0:17:58.000 like if I need to cheat the wind or or 0:17:58.040 --> 0:18:01.480 give them the wind completely? Is five yard loop good enough? 0:18:01.520 --> 0:18:03.480 As a seven hundred fifth yard loop good enough? Like? 0:18:03.520 --> 0:18:06.080 When can they smell me? Is there any data that 0:18:06.119 --> 0:18:07.600 kind of supports that? And I know it's going to 0:18:07.640 --> 0:18:09.720 be variable on the wind, you know, the concentration of 0:18:09.760 --> 0:18:12.159 the smell. So it's like, yeah, everything I'm asking an 0:18:12.160 --> 0:18:14.960 answer for it gets very very complex. There's so many 0:18:15.080 --> 0:18:18.480 variables and you know each one has its own um. 0:18:18.560 --> 0:18:20.520 You know, I guess it's probably weighted differently as well, 0:18:21.040 --> 0:18:26.560 you know in that that answer, um uh, there's no 0:18:26.720 --> 0:18:29.480 research that I'm aware of that that can answer that 0:18:29.560 --> 0:18:33.159 question definitively. But but I'll give you my opinion. The 0:18:33.200 --> 0:18:37.320 way I think about it, I think about it as um, 0:18:37.359 --> 0:18:39.600 even though it's microscopic and we can't see it and 0:18:39.640 --> 0:18:42.119 it's hard for even for us to comprehend it, but 0:18:42.280 --> 0:18:45.760 I look at it as uh, for that, dear. You know, 0:18:45.920 --> 0:18:49.560 stimulus and response, there is probably has to be a 0:18:50.080 --> 0:18:55.560 threshold number of particles to elicit a deer saying I 0:18:55.600 --> 0:18:57.920 gotta get out of here. This is very very dangerous 0:18:57.960 --> 0:19:01.119 for me. Um. And so you know, I'm not a 0:19:01.200 --> 0:19:03.320 mule deer hunter. I'm I'm a white tail hunter. If 0:19:03.400 --> 0:19:05.760 if you've hunt a deer down here long enough, you've 0:19:05.760 --> 0:19:09.119 definitely seen those situations where like you're saying, the wind 0:19:09.160 --> 0:19:12.720 is swirling and a deer comes in, whether they're fifty 0:19:12.800 --> 0:19:15.800 yards away or a hundred fifty, but they caught a whiff. 0:19:16.480 --> 0:19:20.479 They know it's swirled by. And I look at that, Jason, 0:19:20.560 --> 0:19:23.280 as there was a particle or two or a hundred 0:19:23.320 --> 0:19:26.200 or however you would enumerate that, but there was enough 0:19:26.240 --> 0:19:28.600 to say, you know, I need I need to to 0:19:28.640 --> 0:19:31.200 be careful here. Something's going on. And then they get 0:19:31.200 --> 0:19:34.840 that next with and it exceeded that threshold where they 0:19:34.880 --> 0:19:37.480 said I gotta get out of here. Yeah, yeah, or 0:19:37.640 --> 0:19:39.720 the number i've I've smelt it once and I've smelt 0:19:39.720 --> 0:19:42.720 it twice, I'm I'm out. Yeah, that makes sense. And 0:19:43.280 --> 0:19:45.480 I'm gonna ask why I lied there a little bit. 0:19:45.480 --> 0:19:47.240 I'm gonna ask you one more question on set, which 0:19:49.320 --> 0:19:53.240 if you were you know Dr Bronson stricklands headn't do 0:19:53.280 --> 0:19:55.879 a stand and you've got you're going to hunt target 0:19:55.920 --> 0:19:58.879 buck number A, but target buck B might be downwind 0:19:58.920 --> 0:20:01.200 of how you have to get into your stand? What 0:20:01.200 --> 0:20:02.960 what would be the safe distance? I'm gonna put it 0:20:03.000 --> 0:20:04.520 this way, just like, what are you gonna do? How 0:20:04.560 --> 0:20:06.040 far away are you gonna stay? But in order to 0:20:06.080 --> 0:20:08.200 hunt buck A, you're gonna have to let your wind 0:20:08.200 --> 0:20:11.199 go to to be on your approach. Um, what in 0:20:11.280 --> 0:20:13.560 your mind, what could you get away with, you know, 0:20:13.600 --> 0:20:15.760 for that that scent hitting you know that that betting 0:20:15.760 --> 0:20:18.040 area or where you think that bucks hold up at. 0:20:19.320 --> 0:20:21.760