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Speaker 1: Welcome back to Cutting the Distance, where I continue my

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Speaker 1: conversation with Dr Bronson Strickland. He's a professor of wildlife

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Speaker 1: Management at Mississippi State University. He's the co director of

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Speaker 1: m s u S Deer Lab and co host of

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Speaker 1: the Deer University podcast. If you'd like to go back

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Speaker 1: and listen to Part one, we cover listener questions on

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Speaker 1: at what age would you start making decisions on buck management,

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Speaker 1: what year round food strategy should you be employing for

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Speaker 1: the healthiest deer, as well some of my own questions

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Speaker 1: on genetic potential, nutrients, mother's health, and environmental factors and

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Speaker 1: how those all add up to a buck's potential and

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Speaker 1: how you go about managing those for better heart health.

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Speaker 1: If you enjoy this conversation with Dr Bronson Strickland, make

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Speaker 1: sure go back and check out part one if you

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Speaker 1: haven't already. All right, we're gonna digress um from Doma

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Speaker 1: a little bit, and uh, this will be a little

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Speaker 1: more universal amongst all areas. I know the times may change,

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Speaker 1: but you know you hear everybody with their systems like

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Speaker 1: this is how these are the phases of the rut.

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Speaker 1: This is I'm gonna ask you to kind of break down.

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Speaker 1: You know, whether it's the beginning of September. Shoot, you

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Speaker 1: you know down in the South, you guys are probably going,

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Speaker 1: you know, the rut. You know, parts or portions of

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Speaker 1: the rut go all the way into January. Breakdown kind

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Speaker 1: of what you feel or you know, major milestones in

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Speaker 1: in buck behavior, you know, from throughout the rut, you know,

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Speaker 1: starting in September ending in late January. UM, and I

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Speaker 1: know it's going to change a little bit based on

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Speaker 1: you know, where you're at. If you don't mind, I'm

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Speaker 1: gonna back it up another month then include August UH.

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Speaker 1: August September UH. That is when bucks are typically still

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Speaker 1: within their bachelor groups, and so they are tolerant of

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Speaker 1: one another. They are typically still in velvet or coming

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Speaker 1: out of velvet, and biologically what is going on there

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Speaker 1: is the level of testos drown in their bloodstream. So

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Speaker 1: bucks tolerate each other when they're in velvet because testosterone

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Speaker 1: levels are very very low. So when the velvet shedding

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Speaker 1: process begins, that is when testosterone begins to spike. That

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Speaker 1: is when antler hardening happens. And that is also when

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Speaker 1: these bachelor groups start breaking up because they don't want

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Speaker 1: to look at their buddy anymore. They just want to fight,

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Speaker 1: and so that is when they're gonna go back and

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Speaker 1: back to probably the previous fall, the area that that

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Speaker 1: they occupied it and that home range. Typically, let's just

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Speaker 1: say now in the southeast, if if you peek your

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Speaker 1: ruts end of November December, then you have a couple

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Speaker 1: of months to where those bucks are again gonna be

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Speaker 1: setting up their their social hierarchies. They're gonna be refamiliarizing

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Speaker 1: theirselves with their territory. And then when you start getting

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Speaker 1: about three weeks, two weeks, et cetera before the peak

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Speaker 1: of the rut, that is when you're gonna see the

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Speaker 1: most scraping activity d That's when they're they're running their

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Speaker 1: trap line and they're putting their calling card out there

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Speaker 1: on the landscape. And that is typically Jason when most

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Speaker 1: people think that the peak of the rut is most

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Speaker 1: often that is the pre rut that hunters think is

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Speaker 1: the peak of the rut. The peak of the rut

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Speaker 1: is gonna be two to three weeks later when there's

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Speaker 1: gonna be less visible dear activity because bucks are engaged

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Speaker 1: in courting dough, so they're they're locked up, and then

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Speaker 1: that's gonna go on. If you're up north, it might

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Speaker 1: be two to three weeks. If you're in the South,

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Speaker 1: it might be about a month. And then after that

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Speaker 1: of your dose have been bred, and then bucks are

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Speaker 1: gonna start focusing on uh rebuilding their their tissue. They've

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Speaker 1: lost ten of their body weight. That's when we see

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Speaker 1: them focusing back on food again. So that's a good

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Speaker 1: hunter's tip right there, as you always include food in

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Speaker 1: the equation after the peak of the rut um and

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Speaker 1: then they'll start taking advantage of those stragglers. It might

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Speaker 1: be a dough fawn that's coming into heat for the

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Speaker 1: first time. It could be an adult dough that was

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Speaker 1: bred during the peak of the rut, but for whatever reason,

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Speaker 1: just like humans, she was bred but didn't conceive and

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Speaker 1: become pregnant. Thirty days later, she's gonna cycle and come

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Speaker 1: back into heat again. So that's when you'll see that

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Speaker 1: that trickle or that second rut is occurring. Then, yeah,

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Speaker 1: thanks for thanks for breaking that down. We got to

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Speaker 1: hunt Kansas kind of i'd say, right on the front

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Speaker 1: end of lockdown, and it was a little bit frustrating

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Speaker 1: those guys like to kill their their bigger bucks. I

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Speaker 1: would you know, October and maybe even earlier because they're

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Speaker 1: more patternable. They they're starting to you know, like the

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Speaker 1: like you said, they're they're scraping pre rut, they're marking

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Speaker 1: their territory. There's still somewhat patternable. And then when we

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Speaker 1: got there, like it's very very fun to hunt the rut,

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Speaker 1: but the deer that we're on cam's a week ago,

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Speaker 1: just we're gone. They had found a dough ranner off

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Speaker 1: somewhere didn't care to be out. Like I say, it's

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Speaker 1: a it's a little bit of a love hate, like

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Speaker 1: I love being out there during the rut. But it

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Speaker 1: was also like Randy, we have all these pictures of

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Speaker 1: bucks on camera, like they're around, like we would see

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Speaker 1: them maybe one of the four or five days, but

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Speaker 1: then they were just you know, off again. They'd get

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Speaker 1: on the dough and and then take off. So no,

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Speaker 1: thanks for breaking that right down. That that helps, you know,

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Speaker 1: me understand kind of those phases versus you know, some

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Speaker 1: of these people out there have got twenty eight phases

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Speaker 1: of the rut, you know, like they're gonna between this day.

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Speaker 1: I might, well, that's so hard to manage. You know,

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Speaker 1: if you can break it down to like just a

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Speaker 1: few phases, like you said, and what you should be

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Speaker 1: focusing on, makes it makes it a little easier for

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Speaker 1: a hunter to they don't have to think that hard.

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Speaker 1: And that's what's that's what's fun about the rut, but

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Speaker 1: can also be frustrating is what we we think about

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Speaker 1: the rut and anything can happen. I think that the

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Speaker 1: rut equal random. Anything can happen any time of the day. Um.

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Speaker 1: But but at the same time, you're you don't have

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Speaker 1: that reliability and the patterns that are that are established.

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Speaker 1: So but Jason, if you were gonna see if if

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Speaker 1: now you were going to be that person to shoot

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Speaker 1: the neighbor's buck that they've been managing all these years,

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Speaker 1: it's probably gonna beat dround the peak of the road. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's yeah, it's the one time you could if you

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Speaker 1: had a dough that crosses on Yeah, you can pull in.

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Speaker 1: And I you know, I I I'm very um, you know, curious,

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Speaker 1: So I asked all kinds of questions. Randy probably got

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Speaker 1: Randy and and Chris Parrish was a hunt with us

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Speaker 1: there at the place at the same time. And you know,

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Speaker 1: ask those guys that have spent a lot more time

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Speaker 1: in a white tail stand these same questions, like what

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Speaker 1: are the chances you know, have you guys killed bucks that?

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Speaker 1: And they the numbers seem to be low, like it

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Speaker 1: can happen. But they said, you know, Randy's couple of

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Speaker 1: properties or you know, a couple hundred acres apiece scattered

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Speaker 1: about and you know, very rarely does he say they

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Speaker 1: end up with a buck that they didn't cut, you know,

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Speaker 1: know about It does happen, but but not very often.

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Speaker 1: You usually they know what's there, they don't they don't

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Speaker 1: have the scragglers. But you know, I also see the

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Speaker 1: advantages I'm looking for property there, like you can get

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Speaker 1: the right eighty acres and you know, a smaller piece

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Speaker 1: with different landowners, and the probability of killing the buck

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Speaker 1: that's not on your place probably goes up tremendously because

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Speaker 1: you can't hold all those, dear all the time, and you're, um,

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Speaker 1: that makes sense, yeah, and and you know you're getting

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Speaker 1: back to the whole uh patterning, dear, you know the

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Speaker 1: one thing that you can never account for, and that

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Speaker 1: is these excursions and it's these things that uh, you know,

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Speaker 1: as a researcher, I didn't put a lot of faith

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Speaker 1: into when when hunters were reporting this a decade or

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Speaker 1: more ago, evidence they were getting from trail cameras up

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Speaker 1: we've never seen this buck. And he was here for

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Speaker 1: a week or two weeks and then he was gone,

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Speaker 1: and then a year later at the exact same time,

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Speaker 1: I mean literally down to the week or three days,

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Speaker 1: like this buck is back again. I didn't buy into

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Speaker 1: any of that. I was like, there's no biological reason

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Speaker 1: for that to occur. But when you put a GPS

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Speaker 1: caller on a bunch of bucks, that does occur, absolutely happens. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I I think Mark Drewy had he called a buck,

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Speaker 1: you know, he had the same thing. It would disappear

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Speaker 1: like almost to the date and then wouldn't come back

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Speaker 1: until the fall. And it didn't even come back one

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Speaker 1: year at all. And it's just to me, that's mind boggling.

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Speaker 1: And I'm gonna ask you a question. I'm sure you're

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Speaker 1: probably maybe you'll have answer, like, is there any understanding

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Speaker 1: on what just makes that buck say, you know what,

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna pop up today and go a mile away

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Speaker 1: on a different farm, just completely leave an area I've

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Speaker 1: been for the last nine months. Um uh that that

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Speaker 1: that that's a tough one, you know. So we think

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Speaker 1: of um, I guess I think of it as short term,

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Speaker 1: long term. You know, in the short term, could there

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Speaker 1: be some kind of que like I'm getting a whiff

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Speaker 1: of an extra dough, so I'm gonna move. Uh man,

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Speaker 1: I'm hungry, you know, I'm not getting what I need.

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Speaker 1: There's a whole bunch of hunting pressure right here, so

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Speaker 1: so I'm gonna leave. I would call those, you know,

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Speaker 1: short term. But but then we also, Jason, have some

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Speaker 1: longer terms. Where why every single year on November does

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Speaker 1: this buck get up and move five miles away we

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Speaker 1: gotta bucking in Mississippi. That in February every year he

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Speaker 1: leaves the Mississippi, swims the Mississippi River, and spence his

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Speaker 1: summer in Louisiana. Now, now tell me why try to

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Speaker 1: be logical about that? Why invoke all this risk moving

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Speaker 1: that far and swim in the river, and and then

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Speaker 1: come August that same buck moves right back to Mississippi

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Speaker 1: and spends his hunting season over here. I don't know,

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Speaker 1: I don't know. I think it I think it all

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Speaker 1: be speculation. Unless you know, we could somehow figure that out.

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Speaker 1: You know, I me wanting to have an answer. You know,

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Speaker 1: as a as an engineer, there should be an answer

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Speaker 1: to everything. So you know, what goes through my mind

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Speaker 1: is like, were they at four and a half? Was

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Speaker 1: he not that you know they're going to definitely be

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Speaker 1: in the rut, but maybe there was a pecking order issue.

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Speaker 1: And then by five and a half he's like one

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Speaker 1: mature enough and there's another buck that's hanging around here

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Speaker 1: that just won't give me the chance, and I'm gonna

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Speaker 1: go find my own spot where maybe there there isn't

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Speaker 1: a morem You know, it's like we could speculate all

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Speaker 1: day long why does it? But it's just always intriguing

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Speaker 1: on how you could have such consistent, you know, patterns

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Speaker 1: on a deer and then just you know, that excursion

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Speaker 1: takes place where, like you said, a deer that's whims

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Speaker 1: the river at a certain time and comes back. It's

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Speaker 1: just yeah, I guess that's that's what makes it fun.

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Speaker 1: They do things because they're dear and we may never

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Speaker 1: understand why why they do it? What what we think?

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Speaker 1: We have no way to prove this, of course, but

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Speaker 1: what we kind of think it's a biologist would call

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Speaker 1: it kind of a vestigial trait. It's just something buried

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Speaker 1: pretty deep in their genome. I just think there's a

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Speaker 1: fraction of deer, just like within human beings, there's a

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Speaker 1: fraction of humans hundreds of years ago that wanted to

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Speaker 1: be explorers, their risk takers. The grass is always greener,

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Speaker 1: they're going for the gold, etcetera. And they're willing to

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Speaker 1: risk their life to do it. And white till deer,

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Speaker 1: we always say they're a colonizing species, are always you know, moving, expanding,

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Speaker 1: looking for the better food, better cover, etcetera. And I

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Speaker 1: think there's just always a small fraction of individuals and

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Speaker 1: in this case bucks that are just willing to pick

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Speaker 1: up and move. But I can't say it's even just

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Speaker 1: just bucks. This was uh, definitely exacerbated by floodwaters adjacent

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Speaker 1: to the Mississippi River. We we had to do also

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Speaker 1: pick up and move twenty miles away and set up camp.

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Speaker 1: So it happens with both of them that that's crazy.

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Speaker 1: That's starting to get comparable to the western like winter migrations,

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Speaker 1: you know, at the point that moving that far and yeah,

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Speaker 1: like I said, it's all speculation. Another thought is like,

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Speaker 1: you know when is that where he was born? Where

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Speaker 1: his mom Like, you know, it's like and and he

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Speaker 1: moved off and just is coming back. Well, we may

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Speaker 1: never know, so I'm gonna digress because we could probably

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Speaker 1: talk in circles on that one all day. Um. The

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Speaker 1: next one is a western hunter. Um, you know, an

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Speaker 1: elk hunter that's on the ground trying to get very

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Speaker 1: very close. You know, wind is always key, but to

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Speaker 1: piggyback on wind is sent um. You know, being a

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Speaker 1: brand new white tail hunter one of my biggest things.

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Speaker 1: What you know, these the white tail hunters are you know,

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Speaker 1: they're spraying their clothes with all this stuff. They've got

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Speaker 1: some sort of scent locker, scent crusher, some sort of

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Speaker 1: a cabinet with ozone, and you know, I'm like watching

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Speaker 1: what seems to me as a Western hunter is a

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Speaker 1: little bit crazy because we just like, I have to breathe.

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna sweat to death out here in the West,

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Speaker 1: climbing mountains. I'm just gonna keep the wind in my

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Speaker 1: face at all times. But stand hunting, it was very

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Speaker 1: obvious that you can't get into your stand, you can't

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Speaker 1: protect the wind at all times. You got deer on

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Speaker 1: the ground, You're letting them come to you, So wind

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Speaker 1: and and scent becomes a little bit You're I don't

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Speaker 1: want to say you're giving them the wind, but you were.

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Speaker 1: You had to risk the wind a little bit more

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Speaker 1: than I can't elk cunning, because elk cunning, I can

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Speaker 1: hear a bowld bi aggling. I'm just gonna walk a

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Speaker 1: ninety degree you know. Uh, I'm gonna walk ninety degrees

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Speaker 1: to my left and get the wind better, so I can,

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Speaker 1: you know, play it right where I'm not worried about

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Speaker 1: what's behind me or what maybe in the adjacent betting

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Speaker 1: area whatnot. So what with that all said? Uh, my

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Speaker 1: understanding or just from what I've read, maybe even a

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Speaker 1: research that you've done, is that you know, a dear

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Speaker 1: sense of smell can be anywhere from tune and fifty

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Speaker 1: two a hundred times more acute than than human smells.

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Speaker 1: So you're right off the bat, you're not gonna get

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Speaker 1: away with much. But I'm gonna I'm gonna have multiple

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Speaker 1: questions here, but like what smells matter was was always

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Speaker 1: you know, I'm curious about is it human odor? Is

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Speaker 1: it um? You know the the laundry detergent I washed

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Speaker 1: my clothes with is at the breakfast breed I may

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Speaker 1: have build on my hunting pants that morning on the

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Speaker 1: way to the stand um in your opinion, due to

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Speaker 1: the types of smells matter and and is there any

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Speaker 1: research to support you know what smells matter? That that

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Speaker 1: that that that last little part you said there is tough. Um.

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Speaker 1: I would say there is, there's research to support that

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Speaker 1: absolutely smell is gonna matter. But but it's really difficult

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Speaker 1: for us to disentangle exactly what that smell is. What

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Speaker 1: you know, why is this particular of molecule gonna elicit

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Speaker 1: a response in a deer that another scent molecule won't.

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Speaker 1: And one example that that I can give you that

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Speaker 1: for me open my eyes and too how complicated this

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Speaker 1: is is? Uh? Steve and I did did an experiment

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Speaker 1: here at Mississippi State where we worked with the chemists

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Speaker 1: with all the sophisticated equipment where they could they could

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Speaker 1: detect the the acronym they use or v O C

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Speaker 1: S volatile organic compounds that we emit, and we would

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Speaker 1: put on this suit and they would extract the air

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Speaker 1: that came off of us and and it was literally

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Speaker 1: over a hundred different compounds, and it could vary from

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Speaker 1: individual to individual as well. And uh, that just I

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Speaker 1: just remembered something I saw on the news a couple

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Speaker 1: of weeks ago regarding um this new research. But that

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Speaker 1: is showing something humans have noticed for a long time.

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Speaker 1: You know, Jason, why is it whenever you and I

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Speaker 1: are together? Why are mosquitoes all over you? But they're

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Speaker 1: not as much on me? Well, end up this this

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Speaker 1: same kind of study. They actually were able to isolate

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Speaker 1: it down to a particular compound and this particular genome,

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Speaker 1: this expression of this gene, and this person. They manufacture

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Speaker 1: more of this compound and the mosquitoes queued in on it. Now,

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Speaker 1: that kind of got off track a little bit, But

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Speaker 1: the bottom line is that it's hard to define what

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Speaker 1: is human scent because it's a whole bunch of different compounds.

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Speaker 1: And is there any way to truly and effectively suppress

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Speaker 1: or eliminate all those different sense that a deer can

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Speaker 1: detect detect. I can't say from a research per sective,

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Speaker 1: yes or no, but I find it very very unlikely

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Speaker 1: that that you can do that. And another example, Jason, Uh,

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Speaker 1: this seems to resonate with people very well. When I

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Speaker 1: talked to him, is if we want to compare a

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Speaker 1: deer's nose to a dog's nose, which I think is

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Speaker 1: a really good comparison. We all know a bloodhound and

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Speaker 1: that you know how how good they are. Um, But

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Speaker 1: but we have dogs now, like cadaver dogs. We have

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Speaker 1: dogs that can at least there's a lot of research

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Speaker 1: showing they can tell if some one has Parkinson's disease

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Speaker 1: or not. We we have and I know this intimately

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Speaker 1: in my family. There there are service dogs Jason, that

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Speaker 1: could be in the room with you right now, and

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Speaker 1: if you were Type one diabetic, they could tell if

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Speaker 1: your blood glucose level was above or below a threshold. Now,

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Speaker 1: to me, if we're how how do you completely cover

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Speaker 1: that up? I just don't think you can. But what

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Speaker 1: I think you can do are the odds. You put

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Speaker 1: the odds in your favor. You know, of course, you

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Speaker 1: don't want to be eating a bacon and you know,

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Speaker 1: sausage biscuit and smoking a cigar and have diesel fuel

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Speaker 1: on your boots and all that kind of stuff. Um,

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Speaker 1: but it's it's it's really hard to manage for that yeah,

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Speaker 1: and so it's just to be over and that's where

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Speaker 1: I kind of got to is is just being over

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Speaker 1: critical on sense like just I may never know, you know,

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Speaker 1: in in the you know, you the moment, what matters

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Speaker 1: or what doesn't. But if I control and take care

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Speaker 1: of as much of that, you know, so when you

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Speaker 1: get back to the house, you take all your hunting

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Speaker 1: clothes off before you cook breakfast, you know, and and

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Speaker 1: just try to manage it to the highest level possible.

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Speaker 1: I figure that's the best bet because you know, you're

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Speaker 1: always gonna have to breathe, and if that's what they're

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Speaker 1: picking up, you're you're gonna be you know, you're gonna

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Speaker 1: get picked off. And um, you know that kind of

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Speaker 1: leads onto the better or not the better. The safer

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Speaker 1: play is just make sure that the wind is always

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Speaker 1: in the right the right place and your stands in

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Speaker 1: the right place, um, and make sure that they don't

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Speaker 1: have a chance to smell you. Um. For that that's

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Speaker 1: the that's the proactive thing that you can control, is

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Speaker 1: positioning yourself in the wind. Yeah. Um. One last question

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Speaker 1: on on sand and and I know this is a

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Speaker 1: very a very nuanced question because you know, a one

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Speaker 1: to two mile hour winds different than a seven to

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Speaker 1: ten versus a eighteen to twenty. We talked about this

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Speaker 1: a little bit before we we got hit the record button. Um,

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Speaker 1: you know, out west, as I'm approaching Elk, I'm always wondering,

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Speaker 1: like if I need to cheat the wind or or

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Speaker 1: give them the wind completely? Is five yard loop good enough?

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Speaker 1: As a seven hundred fifth yard loop good enough? Like?

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Speaker 1: When can they smell me? Is there any data that

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Speaker 1: kind of supports that? And I know it's going to

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Speaker 1: be variable on the wind, you know, the concentration of

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Speaker 1: the smell. So it's like, yeah, everything I'm asking an

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Speaker 1: answer for it gets very very complex. There's so many

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Speaker 1: variables and you know each one has its own um.

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Speaker 1: You know, I guess it's probably weighted differently as well,

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Speaker 1: you know in that that answer, um uh, there's no

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Speaker 1: research that I'm aware of that that can answer that

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Speaker 1: question definitively. But but I'll give you my opinion. The

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Speaker 1: way I think about it, I think about it as um,

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Speaker 1: even though it's microscopic and we can't see it and

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Speaker 1: it's hard for even for us to comprehend it, but

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Speaker 1: I look at it as uh, for that, dear. You know,

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Speaker 1: stimulus and response, there is probably has to be a

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Speaker 1: threshold number of particles to elicit a deer saying I

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Speaker 1: gotta get out of here. This is very very dangerous

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Speaker 1: for me. Um. And so you know, I'm not a

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Speaker 1: mule deer hunter. I'm I'm a white tail hunter. If

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Speaker 1: if you've hunt a deer down here long enough, you've

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Speaker 1: definitely seen those situations where like you're saying, the wind

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Speaker 1: is swirling and a deer comes in, whether they're fifty

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Speaker 1: yards away or a hundred fifty, but they caught a whiff.

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Speaker 1: They know it's swirled by. And I look at that, Jason,

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Speaker 1: as there was a particle or two or a hundred

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Speaker 1: or however you would enumerate that, but there was enough

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Speaker 1: to say, you know, I need I need to to

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Speaker 1: be careful here. Something's going on. And then they get

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Speaker 1: that next with and it exceeded that threshold where they

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Speaker 1: said I gotta get out of here. Yeah, yeah, or

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Speaker 1: the number i've I've smelt it once and I've smelt

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Speaker 1: it twice, I'm I'm out. Yeah, that makes sense. And

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna ask why I lied there a little bit.

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna ask you one more question on set, which

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Speaker 1: if you were you know Dr Bronson stricklands headn't do

390
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Speaker 1: a stand and you've got you're going to hunt target

391
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Speaker 1: buck number A, but target buck B might be downwind

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Speaker 1: of how you have to get into your stand? What

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Speaker 1: what would be the safe distance? I'm gonna put it

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Speaker 1: this way, just like, what are you gonna do? How

395
00:20:04,560 --> 00:20:06,040
Speaker 1: far away are you gonna stay? But in order to

396
00:20:06,080 --> 00:20:08,200
Speaker 1: hunt buck A, you're gonna have to let your wind

397
00:20:08,200 --> 00:20:11,199
Speaker 1: go to to be on your approach. Um, what in

398
00:20:11,280 --> 00:20:13,560
Speaker 1: your mind, what could you get away with, you know,

399
00:20:13,600 --> 00:20:15,760
Speaker 1: for that that scent hitting you know that that betting

400
00:20:15,760 --> 00:20:18,040
Speaker 1: area or where you think that bucks hold up at.

401
00:20:19,320 --> 00:20:21,760
Speaker 1: I don't think it would be a couple hundred yards

402
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Speaker 1: I would want it to be a thousand or more away. Yeah,

403
00:20:25,960 --> 00:20:28,560
Speaker 1: just once again, just played on that conservative side, a

404
00:20:28,560 --> 00:20:30,880
Speaker 1: little extra effort, a little farther walking, just to make

405
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Speaker 1: sure that that when so. Yeah, not I'm not putting

406
00:20:34,240 --> 00:20:36,200
Speaker 1: you on record, but over a thousand yards away you

407
00:20:36,240 --> 00:20:38,439
Speaker 1: feel like you may be safe, you know, And it

408
00:20:38,440 --> 00:20:40,200
Speaker 1: sounds like I wouldn't even put a number on it.

409
00:20:40,240 --> 00:20:42,640
Speaker 1: As far as possible. You're gonna stay away as far

410
00:20:42,680 --> 00:20:45,000
Speaker 1: as possible as you can, as long as yeah, yeah,

411
00:20:45,040 --> 00:20:47,320
Speaker 1: as long as it doesn't you know, turn your half

412
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Speaker 1: mile hike into the stand into a five mile hike.

413
00:20:49,440 --> 00:20:51,840
Speaker 1: You know, within reason, you're gonna stay as far away

414
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Speaker 1: as possible, exactly, and make as little noise as possible.

415
00:20:56,040 --> 00:20:59,200
Speaker 1: The list goes on and on. Yeah. Um, we talked

416
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Speaker 1: about the run a little. It we mentioned some you know,

417
00:21:01,240 --> 00:21:04,399
Speaker 1: nine yards versus yards. Um. You know, we know that

418
00:21:04,480 --> 00:21:08,600
Speaker 1: deer move you know, October November, they're moving thirty three percent.

419
00:21:08,680 --> 00:21:10,720
Speaker 1: I think some of your research says three percent of

420
00:21:10,800 --> 00:21:13,879
Speaker 1: the time during the day during lockdown, they're moving their

421
00:21:13,920 --> 00:21:17,399
Speaker 1: movements during the day. Um, but we noticed, and I

422
00:21:17,440 --> 00:21:20,040
Speaker 1: come back to my people a probably getting tired of

423
00:21:20,080 --> 00:21:21,800
Speaker 1: me of my white tail hunt in Kansas. But it's

424
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Speaker 1: what I know, it's it's it's it's my experience, so

425
00:21:24,080 --> 00:21:27,040
Speaker 1: I'm gonna dive back into it. Um. You know, he's

426
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Speaker 1: got cameras spread out all over his you know, thousand acres,

427
00:21:30,119 --> 00:21:33,680
Speaker 1: a couple of different forms, and you know he may

428
00:21:33,720 --> 00:21:36,840
Speaker 1: have one camera that only gets a picture of one buck.

429
00:21:37,480 --> 00:21:39,879
Speaker 1: You know that buck doesn't leave his core area of

430
00:21:39,960 --> 00:21:41,919
Speaker 1: I don't know a hundred two hundred three hundred acres.

431
00:21:41,960 --> 00:21:45,000
Speaker 1: I'm assuming, you know, he's or even tighter than that,

432
00:21:45,080 --> 00:21:47,040
Speaker 1: because the farm is bigger than that. He's got cameras

433
00:21:47,040 --> 00:21:50,199
Speaker 1: more you know, closely closely spaced out than that. But

434
00:21:50,240 --> 00:21:52,080
Speaker 1: then there may be a buck that is on all

435
00:21:52,119 --> 00:21:55,240
Speaker 1: ten of his cameras and all of his neighbors twenty cameras,

436
00:21:55,440 --> 00:21:57,800
Speaker 1: and you know, in the next neighbors over his cameras.

437
00:21:57,880 --> 00:22:03,879
Speaker 1: What what lead to that that? I guess, uh, you know,

438
00:22:03,960 --> 00:22:07,400
Speaker 1: habit or what leads to to that deer's movement patterns

439
00:22:07,720 --> 00:22:09,640
Speaker 1: um for one buck to sit still, in one buck

440
00:22:09,680 --> 00:22:12,000
Speaker 1: to travel all over And I've got some follow up

441
00:22:12,040 --> 00:22:16,040
Speaker 1: questions on that as well. Well, I don't think we

442
00:22:16,119 --> 00:22:19,359
Speaker 1: know the answer, but but we know that it exists.

443
00:22:19,520 --> 00:22:22,840
Speaker 1: We know that there's a lot of variation, uh, and

444
00:22:22,880 --> 00:22:25,560
Speaker 1: how they move and the area they cover and how

445
00:22:25,600 --> 00:22:28,720
Speaker 1: often and what we kind of call it personality, we

446
00:22:28,800 --> 00:22:32,320
Speaker 1: call you know, bucks have have different personalities and some

447
00:22:32,480 --> 00:22:35,199
Speaker 1: of it, Jason, can be Some are just very aggressive.

448
00:22:35,840 --> 00:22:37,919
Speaker 1: Some of them are always out there, always looking for

449
00:22:37,960 --> 00:22:40,479
Speaker 1: a fight. They're always looking for a breeding opportunity. Some

450
00:22:40,600 --> 00:22:42,960
Speaker 1: of them, and this can be mature bucks as well.

451
00:22:43,119 --> 00:22:46,119
Speaker 1: Some of them just are not programmed that way. Some

452
00:22:46,200 --> 00:22:48,240
Speaker 1: of them are just gonna what we call them norm

453
00:22:48,400 --> 00:22:51,080
Speaker 1: if I'm showing my age here, but cheers Norm. I

454
00:22:51,080 --> 00:22:53,320
Speaker 1: mean every Friday night, you know where norm is gonna be.

455
00:22:53,720 --> 00:22:57,199
Speaker 1: And there are are some bucks like that, And to me,

456
00:22:57,760 --> 00:23:01,439
Speaker 1: we got to think back into But the currency for

457
00:23:01,560 --> 00:23:06,400
Speaker 1: an animal is an evolutionary term we called fitness. Fitness

458
00:23:06,520 --> 00:23:09,440
Speaker 1: is basically for you to win and mother nature, you

459
00:23:09,520 --> 00:23:12,439
Speaker 1: gotta live longer or you've gotta have more offspring. And

460
00:23:12,480 --> 00:23:15,639
Speaker 1: so I think you have this diversity of buck personalities

461
00:23:16,160 --> 00:23:18,159
Speaker 1: where some of them are going to be very aggressive

462
00:23:18,200 --> 00:23:20,639
Speaker 1: about breeding opportunities and some of them are gonna be

463
00:23:21,280 --> 00:23:24,720
Speaker 1: more conservative and are gonna stay at home and stay

464
00:23:24,760 --> 00:23:28,119
Speaker 1: close to cover and just try to live longer. That

465
00:23:28,359 --> 00:23:30,959
Speaker 1: their game is the long game of i may have

466
00:23:31,040 --> 00:23:33,800
Speaker 1: less breeding opportunities per year, but I'm gonna live till

467
00:23:33,800 --> 00:23:37,399
Speaker 1: I'm eight years old. This other little whipper snapper, you know,

468
00:23:37,800 --> 00:23:41,160
Speaker 1: he's gonna have maximize as many breeding opportunities as he can,

469
00:23:41,280 --> 00:23:44,359
Speaker 1: but he dies at three and a half. So both

470
00:23:44,400 --> 00:23:49,440
Speaker 1: of those are acceptable solutions. And and so you know,

471
00:23:49,480 --> 00:23:52,000
Speaker 1: without really knowing why, you know, maybe it's it's just

472
00:23:52,040 --> 00:23:54,800
Speaker 1: intrinsic and genetic a little bit and it's just who

473
00:23:54,800 --> 00:23:59,520
Speaker 1: they are. Um, is there any any data or you

474
00:23:59,560 --> 00:24:01,400
Speaker 1: know from your own experience, have you seen that change

475
00:24:01,400 --> 00:24:03,479
Speaker 1: with maturity like well that you know you mentioned whipper

476
00:24:03,480 --> 00:24:06,639
Speaker 1: snapper in the in the last example, does that deer

477
00:24:06,960 --> 00:24:09,199
Speaker 1: settle down as he moves up the pecking order and

478
00:24:09,240 --> 00:24:11,520
Speaker 1: maybe knows he'll be able to breed those doughs clothes?

479
00:24:11,760 --> 00:24:14,760
Speaker 1: Or is there any correlation between maturity and how how

480
00:24:14,840 --> 00:24:19,000
Speaker 1: far a deer wants to go? Um, we don't have

481
00:24:19,040 --> 00:24:22,960
Speaker 1: a good data to assess that, simply because we we

482
00:24:23,080 --> 00:24:27,480
Speaker 1: don't have enough the the longevity of a deer retaining

483
00:24:27,480 --> 00:24:29,919
Speaker 1: a collar, at least the way we do studies is

484
00:24:30,200 --> 00:24:32,520
Speaker 1: you get about a year, sometimes a year and a

485
00:24:32,560 --> 00:24:35,440
Speaker 1: half out of a collar and the batteries exhausted and

486
00:24:35,840 --> 00:24:39,760
Speaker 1: we drop it off. The I think the best explanation

487
00:24:39,840 --> 00:24:42,679
Speaker 1: I can give is like in our deer pens and

488
00:24:42,720 --> 00:24:46,000
Speaker 1: our research facility, we we will see some of the

489
00:24:46,240 --> 00:24:50,760
Speaker 1: aggressiveness change over time. We will see sometimes that a

490
00:24:50,800 --> 00:24:54,560
Speaker 1: buck at middle age that was just really really aggressive,

491
00:24:55,359 --> 00:24:58,439
Speaker 1: by the time he becomes a mature it's almost like

492
00:24:58,480 --> 00:25:02,400
Speaker 1: he settles down. It's almost like he realizes the risk

493
00:25:02,600 --> 00:25:05,719
Speaker 1: I am taking and every time a buck locks up

494
00:25:05,760 --> 00:25:08,640
Speaker 1: for a fight, for example, they're they're taking a risk

495
00:25:08,720 --> 00:25:11,399
Speaker 1: with their life. Uh, they're taking a risk with getting

496
00:25:11,440 --> 00:25:13,240
Speaker 1: an antler. You see it all of an antler in

497
00:25:13,240 --> 00:25:16,479
Speaker 1: the eyeball, wound in the neck. And so it's like

498
00:25:16,520 --> 00:25:19,480
Speaker 1: some of these bucks just learn over time that the

499
00:25:19,560 --> 00:25:22,240
Speaker 1: ruts not here, there's not an estraus dough right in

500
00:25:22,280 --> 00:25:25,240
Speaker 1: front of me. I'm not gonna I'm not gonna run

501
00:25:25,240 --> 00:25:27,679
Speaker 1: all over the place and pick fights with everybody like

502
00:25:27,760 --> 00:25:30,680
Speaker 1: some of these other bucks do. That makes a ton

503
00:25:30,680 --> 00:25:33,680
Speaker 1: of a ton of sense there. Um, moving on to

504
00:25:33,800 --> 00:25:36,320
Speaker 1: my my final question before we get into the vocalizations

505
00:25:36,359 --> 00:25:39,600
Speaker 1: a little bit um, you know, looking at a piece

506
00:25:39,600 --> 00:25:42,960
Speaker 1: of property aside from seclusion and absence of human pressure,

507
00:25:42,960 --> 00:25:47,119
Speaker 1: which in my quick research, um, is maybe the number

508
00:25:47,119 --> 00:25:49,560
Speaker 1: one factory to keeping you know, bigger, more mature deer

509
00:25:49,600 --> 00:25:51,920
Speaker 1: on your property. What do bucks need to get big

510
00:25:51,920 --> 00:25:55,360
Speaker 1: and stay big and and and stay on your property? Um?

511
00:25:55,720 --> 00:25:57,639
Speaker 1: You know, for elk out West, we always talk about

512
00:25:57,720 --> 00:25:59,600
Speaker 1: when we're looking to find elk, we're looking they need

513
00:25:59,640 --> 00:26:02,160
Speaker 1: to have they need to have security and using north

514
00:26:02,200 --> 00:26:05,240
Speaker 1: facing benches in timber or brush, and they need to

515
00:26:05,240 --> 00:26:07,879
Speaker 1: have access to water every day. How do you relate

516
00:26:07,920 --> 00:26:11,080
Speaker 1: that to like the white tails and and where, uh,

517
00:26:11,119 --> 00:26:14,280
Speaker 1: you know, not where what you need to keep them

518
00:26:14,280 --> 00:26:19,879
Speaker 1: on your place? The essentials food. Of course, food is

519
00:26:20,160 --> 00:26:23,439
Speaker 1: really really important until you get to the rut and

520
00:26:23,520 --> 00:26:28,359
Speaker 1: food is less important. Um. I would say during that

521
00:26:28,440 --> 00:26:29,879
Speaker 1: time of the year. It's kind of like what we

522
00:26:29,880 --> 00:26:32,320
Speaker 1: talked about earlier. It's something you can't really manage for.

523
00:26:32,480 --> 00:26:37,560
Speaker 1: But there they're roaming the landscape looking for for breeding opportunities. Um.

524
00:26:37,600 --> 00:26:40,280
Speaker 1: But but one thing that we neglect a lot is

525
00:26:40,560 --> 00:26:43,640
Speaker 1: is cover. It's having a really good cover. And so

526
00:26:43,800 --> 00:26:46,000
Speaker 1: you know, I'll get an email or a call and

527
00:26:46,440 --> 00:26:48,280
Speaker 1: I'll get the question of what do I have to

528
00:26:48,320 --> 00:26:50,960
Speaker 1: do on my property, you know, my small acreage, my

529
00:26:51,040 --> 00:26:54,200
Speaker 1: fifty two to keep and you know, hold more deal

530
00:26:54,200 --> 00:26:57,320
Speaker 1: on my property. And and the way I always end

531
00:26:57,440 --> 00:26:59,840
Speaker 1: up is you need to go to Google Earth or

532
00:26:59,840 --> 00:27:02,240
Speaker 1: some program like that, and you need to zoom out

533
00:27:02,840 --> 00:27:05,000
Speaker 1: and you need to figure out what is the most

534
00:27:05,200 --> 00:27:09,199
Speaker 1: limiting factor on the landscape, not on your property adjacent

535
00:27:09,480 --> 00:27:13,919
Speaker 1: what is limiting is food limiting? If so, then you

536
00:27:13,960 --> 00:27:18,359
Speaker 1: can be the destination food property around you. But just

537
00:27:18,480 --> 00:27:21,080
Speaker 1: as easily think of the Midwest. It could be cover.

538
00:27:22,119 --> 00:27:24,120
Speaker 1: You know, so if you just have this wide open

539
00:27:24,200 --> 00:27:26,400
Speaker 1: landscape and you have all this food, well you need

540
00:27:26,440 --> 00:27:30,359
Speaker 1: some cover adjacent to it to hold deer on your property. Um.

541
00:27:30,440 --> 00:27:33,600
Speaker 1: And then once you address those, don't mess it up

542
00:27:34,440 --> 00:27:39,040
Speaker 1: by uh, disturbing the deer all the time. Be sensible

543
00:27:39,600 --> 00:27:42,359
Speaker 1: about about how you hunt and how often you hunt.

544
00:27:43,200 --> 00:27:44,920
Speaker 1: Don't just go in there and blow them up every

545
00:27:44,920 --> 00:27:48,040
Speaker 1: afternoon or they're gonna leave your property or certainly not

546
00:27:48,200 --> 00:27:52,080
Speaker 1: move around during daylight hours. And that makes a lot

547
00:27:52,119 --> 00:27:54,200
Speaker 1: of sense. And coming from out west, you know, we've

548
00:27:54,280 --> 00:27:57,399
Speaker 1: got it's brush. You we've logged everything, you know three

549
00:27:57,440 --> 00:27:59,639
Speaker 1: times now, you've got stumps, you've got brush, you've got

550
00:27:59,720 --> 00:28:01,560
Speaker 1: black very brush. You get into the creek bottoms, we've

551
00:28:01,560 --> 00:28:04,000
Speaker 1: got devil's clubs, you know, whatever it may be. There's

552
00:28:04,000 --> 00:28:06,639
Speaker 1: just we have brush and and everything for days. And

553
00:28:06,680 --> 00:28:09,720
Speaker 1: so heading out um, you know, to the Midwest, you know,

554
00:28:09,960 --> 00:28:14,080
Speaker 1: to to realize that a little cedar thicket that created

555
00:28:14,119 --> 00:28:16,560
Speaker 1: some sort of like thermal barrier for those deer. And

556
00:28:16,760 --> 00:28:20,080
Speaker 1: we hunted very close to to a cedar um thicket there,

557
00:28:20,480 --> 00:28:22,520
Speaker 1: and you know, coming from out west, it's like, why

558
00:28:22,560 --> 00:28:24,000
Speaker 1: would these deer want to be in it. But you

559
00:28:24,040 --> 00:28:25,920
Speaker 1: realize really quick that you know, when it was eight

560
00:28:25,960 --> 00:28:28,640
Speaker 1: to fifteen degrees, those bucks were moving some of those

561
00:28:28,680 --> 00:28:30,080
Speaker 1: deer into that and they wanted to be in there

562
00:28:30,119 --> 00:28:31,320
Speaker 1: during the middle of the day when they were going

563
00:28:31,320 --> 00:28:33,359
Speaker 1: to bed down so they could have an extra tenor.

564
00:28:33,640 --> 00:28:35,480
Speaker 1: And we walked to farm and walked through a couple

565
00:28:35,520 --> 00:28:38,280
Speaker 1: of them, just looking at new properties and just kind

566
00:28:38,280 --> 00:28:40,160
Speaker 1: of doing the walk around, getting the whole you know,

567
00:28:40,200 --> 00:28:43,280
Speaker 1: first white tail experience and um, you know, just seeing

568
00:28:43,280 --> 00:28:46,000
Speaker 1: the amount of trails and the activity on the property

569
00:28:46,040 --> 00:28:47,720
Speaker 1: going in and out of there at different times of

570
00:28:47,760 --> 00:28:50,600
Speaker 1: the day. What was eye opening. And then I remember

571
00:28:50,640 --> 00:28:53,520
Speaker 1: walking through we walked from you know, one I guess

572
00:28:53,520 --> 00:28:55,400
Speaker 1: would be agg section to another, but there was a

573
00:28:55,560 --> 00:28:57,280
Speaker 1: we were in bluff country and we had to maybe

574
00:28:57,360 --> 00:28:59,200
Speaker 1: drop a couple hundred feet down through a creek, and

575
00:29:00,200 --> 00:29:02,480
Speaker 1: you know out west we clear cut everything. We cut

576
00:29:02,480 --> 00:29:04,480
Speaker 1: it off of the stump. We either turn it into

577
00:29:04,560 --> 00:29:07,320
Speaker 1: lumber or we send it overseas his export logs. And

578
00:29:07,760 --> 00:29:10,920
Speaker 1: I looked and on this property, Randy had cut everything.

579
00:29:11,120 --> 00:29:13,160
Speaker 1: I heighten, just let it lay and it just created

580
00:29:13,200 --> 00:29:16,240
Speaker 1: this tangled mess. And you know, he explained hinge cutting

581
00:29:16,240 --> 00:29:18,480
Speaker 1: to me, which coming from out west made zero since

582
00:29:18,520 --> 00:29:20,520
Speaker 1: it all like left tree was worth money, you know,

583
00:29:20,560 --> 00:29:22,360
Speaker 1: and he's like let trees with more to the big bucks.

584
00:29:22,360 --> 00:29:24,520
Speaker 1: And it is you know, in a in a sawmill.

585
00:29:24,600 --> 00:29:27,160
Speaker 1: And so you quickly start to look at you know,

586
00:29:27,520 --> 00:29:29,440
Speaker 1: all right, don't go in here. But then this is

587
00:29:29,480 --> 00:29:32,479
Speaker 1: like that big buck you know, betting area. They can

588
00:29:32,520 --> 00:29:35,120
Speaker 1: be secluded. There's no reason for anybody outside of hunting

589
00:29:35,160 --> 00:29:37,880
Speaker 1: season to ever go into here. Um. You know, it's

590
00:29:37,920 --> 00:29:41,440
Speaker 1: literally set aside for for bucks. Um, you know. And

591
00:29:41,480 --> 00:29:44,320
Speaker 1: then fast forwarding to a different piece we hunted, uh,

592
00:29:44,440 --> 00:29:47,720
Speaker 1: you know, he left a twenty acre circle between his

593
00:29:47,960 --> 00:29:51,640
Speaker 1: dick timber, his open oaks, his food plot of CRP

594
00:29:52,400 --> 00:29:56,120
Speaker 1: and um. I was amazed how many deer would pop

595
00:29:56,240 --> 00:29:59,040
Speaker 1: up at three thirty in the afternoon out of that stuff.

596
00:29:59,040 --> 00:30:00,880
Speaker 1: Like they didn't want to go head in the thick brush,

597
00:30:00,880 --> 00:30:02,840
Speaker 1: they didn't want to go bed, you know, up in

598
00:30:02,840 --> 00:30:05,040
Speaker 1: the timber. Um, they were just going out in the

599
00:30:05,040 --> 00:30:08,000
Speaker 1: middle of theirp And so it quickly started like there's

600
00:30:08,040 --> 00:30:12,240
Speaker 1: no right answer, um, you know, aside from maybe leaving

601
00:30:12,240 --> 00:30:14,120
Speaker 1: these things loan or not bother them all year or

602
00:30:14,160 --> 00:30:17,440
Speaker 1: bothering him, you know, pre hunting season, during hunting season. Um,

603
00:30:17,480 --> 00:30:20,920
Speaker 1: you know there's a there's a security they want, you know,

604
00:30:21,640 --> 00:30:24,800
Speaker 1: like you said, thermal thermal breaks from from cedars and

605
00:30:24,800 --> 00:30:26,840
Speaker 1: and and it kind of opened up my eyes. You

606
00:30:26,840 --> 00:30:28,600
Speaker 1: have to think a little bit more about what those

607
00:30:28,640 --> 00:30:31,440
Speaker 1: dear need, you know, right? And I guess it is

608
00:30:31,440 --> 00:30:34,040
Speaker 1: an aggregate. They don't just need one thing they wanna.

609
00:30:34,480 --> 00:30:36,920
Speaker 1: It seems to be a combination to me at least

610
00:30:36,920 --> 00:30:39,840
Speaker 1: that that they want a little bit of everything. Yeah,

611
00:30:40,080 --> 00:30:43,320
Speaker 1: and think about the adjacency as well, Um, you know,

612
00:30:43,440 --> 00:30:45,880
Speaker 1: where where can I put this cover relative to where

613
00:30:45,960 --> 00:30:48,600
Speaker 1: food is gonna be? Think about your hunting strategy. Am

614
00:30:48,600 --> 00:30:50,280
Speaker 1: I going to be able to get in and out

615
00:30:50,360 --> 00:30:53,080
Speaker 1: of being in between food and cover? Can I get

616
00:30:53,080 --> 00:30:57,480
Speaker 1: in and out undetected? I mean there's a Um, you

617
00:30:57,520 --> 00:31:01,480
Speaker 1: can be a lot more intentional, uh and and successful

618
00:31:01,520 --> 00:31:03,560
Speaker 1: with where you put cover. Then. I think a lot

619
00:31:03,560 --> 00:31:06,120
Speaker 1: of people give credit for I think we give so

620
00:31:06,320 --> 00:31:08,680
Speaker 1: much attention to the food plot, where we're putting the

621
00:31:08,720 --> 00:31:10,959
Speaker 1: food plot, etcetera. I think you need to put just

622
00:31:11,080 --> 00:31:14,600
Speaker 1: as much of where you are intentionally putting cover, and

623
00:31:14,600 --> 00:31:32,800
Speaker 1: it's just gonna increase your success hunting. Okay, now we're

624
00:31:32,800 --> 00:31:35,480
Speaker 1: gonna kind of close us out with you know what,

625
00:31:35,480 --> 00:31:38,680
Speaker 1: what I'm interested in and my job designed deer calls

626
00:31:38,840 --> 00:31:42,480
Speaker 1: is just vocalizations. And you're your opinion what you know

627
00:31:42,520 --> 00:31:46,120
Speaker 1: about deer vocalizations all, um, All add in bits and

628
00:31:46,120 --> 00:31:48,520
Speaker 1: pieces from what I've seen in the stand um, but

629
00:31:48,960 --> 00:31:52,680
Speaker 1: go through like a deer's vocabulary at at a high level.

630
00:31:52,760 --> 00:31:54,600
Speaker 1: And then we'll break it down into you know, grunts,

631
00:31:54,680 --> 00:31:57,320
Speaker 1: rattling bleats, in your opinion what those means and how

632
00:31:57,360 --> 00:31:59,520
Speaker 1: we can you know what they mean to the deer,

633
00:31:59,560 --> 00:32:01,360
Speaker 1: and then how we can maybe use those um in

634
00:32:01,480 --> 00:32:07,360
Speaker 1: hunting situations. Um, from a hunting situation that you know,

635
00:32:07,400 --> 00:32:10,560
Speaker 1: there there are a lot of vocalizations, and I didn't

636
00:32:10,560 --> 00:32:13,440
Speaker 1: do my homework to rattle off all twelve of them

637
00:32:13,520 --> 00:32:16,240
Speaker 1: or whatever. The ones that are are are you know

638
00:32:16,400 --> 00:32:20,520
Speaker 1: most meaningful? Of course, distress you know there's a problem there.

639
00:32:20,640 --> 00:32:23,720
Speaker 1: They blow you know, really hard. Uh, And that's just

640
00:32:23,760 --> 00:32:26,480
Speaker 1: to alert everybody something's wrong and get you know, get

641
00:32:26,520 --> 00:32:29,840
Speaker 1: the heck out of town. Uh. Grunting or the tending

642
00:32:29,880 --> 00:32:33,400
Speaker 1: grunt is the one we think most commonly, and that

643
00:32:33,520 --> 00:32:37,520
Speaker 1: is just communication. Uh. A buck is tending a dough.

644
00:32:37,760 --> 00:32:40,680
Speaker 1: He's he's on the on, on the chase or the pursuit.

645
00:32:41,320 --> 00:32:43,760
Speaker 1: And then more of a territoriality part of that is

646
00:32:43,800 --> 00:32:46,520
Speaker 1: in the grunt store at WESE and that is more

647
00:32:46,600 --> 00:32:49,480
Speaker 1: of a you know, hey, buddy, we're about to tangle

648
00:32:49,760 --> 00:32:51,680
Speaker 1: here and I'm just I'm letting you know, you better

649
00:32:51,720 --> 00:32:56,400
Speaker 1: back off real quick. Um, I've had so so so

650
00:32:56,440 --> 00:33:02,200
Speaker 1: there's no doubt Jason that grunting and work. Um. We

651
00:33:02,240 --> 00:33:06,520
Speaker 1: wouldn't have this industry producing grunt calls if it never worked.

652
00:33:06,880 --> 00:33:11,280
Speaker 1: But everybody that has used them enough has also noticed, Um,

653
00:33:11,360 --> 00:33:15,600
Speaker 1: it works sometimes and it doesn't work others. And the

654
00:33:15,640 --> 00:33:19,040
Speaker 1: way I think about it anyway, is it's gonna depend

655
00:33:19,120 --> 00:33:22,200
Speaker 1: on um Number one, and this seems really silly to

656
00:33:22,240 --> 00:33:25,520
Speaker 1: say this, but did the buck even hear it? So

657
00:33:25,680 --> 00:33:27,880
Speaker 1: the but the buck has to hear the grunt before

658
00:33:27,880 --> 00:33:30,520
Speaker 1: it can respond to the grunt. And and then number two,

659
00:33:30,520 --> 00:33:34,600
Speaker 1: it's probably gonna depend on its mood or physiological state

660
00:33:34,720 --> 00:33:38,200
Speaker 1: as to whether it's gonna respond. So everybody that's grunted

661
00:33:38,240 --> 00:33:40,200
Speaker 1: a deer has grunted, and you like, why in the

662
00:33:40,200 --> 00:33:43,520
Speaker 1: world it didn't even pay me any attention? And you

663
00:33:43,560 --> 00:33:46,520
Speaker 1: can have that exact same scenario two days later with

664
00:33:46,560 --> 00:33:50,760
Speaker 1: a different buck and they come charging in. UM, it's

665
00:33:50,840 --> 00:33:54,080
Speaker 1: really hard to determine exactly what was going on there,

666
00:33:54,120 --> 00:33:57,640
Speaker 1: but we see the same thing with rattling as well.

667
00:33:58,080 --> 00:34:01,400
Speaker 1: It can be UMH is very I'm sorry, I'm kind

668
00:34:01,400 --> 00:34:05,960
Speaker 1: of going down a side road here. I was very

669
00:34:06,040 --> 00:34:10,080
Speaker 1: lucky to work with a buddy of mine UH named

670
00:34:10,080 --> 00:34:12,520
Speaker 1: Mick Hellickson years ago. This would have been in the

671
00:34:13,080 --> 00:34:17,640
Speaker 1: GALIUH mid nineties, and to to my knowledge, it has

672
00:34:17,680 --> 00:34:23,920
Speaker 1: been the only kind of scientifically studied UH rattling experiment.

673
00:34:24,719 --> 00:34:28,160
Speaker 1: And we went to this This wildlife refuge has these

674
00:34:28,239 --> 00:34:31,719
Speaker 1: observation towers and an even buck age structure, and that's

675
00:34:31,840 --> 00:34:35,040
Speaker 1: very important. It was a classic South Texas deer herd

676
00:34:35,080 --> 00:34:37,279
Speaker 1: where you had just as many bucks were mature as

677
00:34:37,400 --> 00:34:41,840
Speaker 1: or immature. And we looked at pre rut, rut, post rut, etcetera,

678
00:34:41,840 --> 00:34:45,400
Speaker 1: and different rattling sequences and so forth. And and Jason,

679
00:34:45,960 --> 00:34:50,480
Speaker 1: the single most important thing about a buck coming in

680
00:34:51,000 --> 00:34:53,440
Speaker 1: and responding to you was did the buck here you

681
00:34:54,200 --> 00:34:58,319
Speaker 1: or not? So with with the with then where you're at,

682
00:34:58,520 --> 00:35:01,680
Speaker 1: there is a certain rate us around you that there

683
00:35:01,719 --> 00:35:04,920
Speaker 1: has to number one be abut to hear you rattling.

684
00:35:05,200 --> 00:35:08,000
Speaker 1: And then number two, are they in the mood you

685
00:35:08,040 --> 00:35:10,880
Speaker 1: know to to respond? Yeah, And that was one of

686
00:35:10,960 --> 00:35:12,600
Speaker 1: the things that I sat in the stand. What I

687
00:35:12,600 --> 00:35:15,120
Speaker 1: would consider, you know, similar age class dear, you know,

688
00:35:15,400 --> 00:35:18,319
Speaker 1: similar level of dominance or same level on the pecking order,

689
00:35:18,440 --> 00:35:20,840
Speaker 1: on the same trail. So whatever they think they're smelling

690
00:35:21,160 --> 00:35:24,719
Speaker 1: as they go by. I could grunt at one and

691
00:35:24,760 --> 00:35:26,680
Speaker 1: he he heard me, he'd pick his head up, you know,

692
00:35:26,760 --> 00:35:29,560
Speaker 1: I always always that's I guess my indicators. He snaps

693
00:35:29,560 --> 00:35:31,520
Speaker 1: his head up and looks at your direction. If not,

694
00:35:31,600 --> 00:35:33,799
Speaker 1: I assume he didn't hear me, and then he would

695
00:35:33,800 --> 00:35:35,560
Speaker 1: put pick his head up and go right back down

696
00:35:35,600 --> 00:35:38,319
Speaker 1: to sniff. And the next year, three and a half

697
00:35:38,400 --> 00:35:41,640
Speaker 1: years old, same age dear gets the same spot, I grant,

698
00:35:41,680 --> 00:35:43,359
Speaker 1: he picks his head up and turns and walks six

699
00:35:43,400 --> 00:35:45,799
Speaker 1: yards under the stand, And I'm like, gosh, dang, I

700
00:35:45,800 --> 00:35:47,839
Speaker 1: don't know why, and maybe we never will know why.

701
00:35:47,840 --> 00:35:50,839
Speaker 1: It's just that first buck didn't have, you know, enough

702
00:35:50,880 --> 00:35:53,440
Speaker 1: want to come back and and you know, pick up

703
00:35:53,440 --> 00:35:54,919
Speaker 1: the trail that I was on. You know, you gotta

704
00:35:54,920 --> 00:35:57,080
Speaker 1: assume that's what they're thinking that I was on. You know,

705
00:35:57,160 --> 00:36:00,239
Speaker 1: a dough or grunting. Um, you know, that didn't work.

706
00:36:00,320 --> 00:36:03,680
Speaker 1: And then there were also times where mature deer. We

707
00:36:03,719 --> 00:36:05,960
Speaker 1: got some mature deer to stop and look and they

708
00:36:06,000 --> 00:36:08,920
Speaker 1: would kind of angle our way. And then it seemed

709
00:36:08,960 --> 00:36:11,000
Speaker 1: to work better on those three and a half the

710
00:36:11,080 --> 00:36:12,640
Speaker 1: four and a half year old deer. If we were

711
00:36:12,680 --> 00:36:15,200
Speaker 1: dealing with the five or six and a half, they

712
00:36:15,239 --> 00:36:17,920
Speaker 1: weren't near as interested in coming. Now. I know that

713
00:36:18,000 --> 00:36:20,440
Speaker 1: might just be a coincidence on this hunt, but it

714
00:36:20,440 --> 00:36:23,000
Speaker 1: seemed like it was easier to to grunt in those

715
00:36:23,000 --> 00:36:24,239
Speaker 1: three and a half to four and a half year

716
00:36:24,280 --> 00:36:28,840
Speaker 1: old bucks. Um. And yeah, I I don't know. I

717
00:36:29,160 --> 00:36:31,719
Speaker 1: always just wonder why and how come? But you know,

718
00:36:31,880 --> 00:36:34,160
Speaker 1: similar to a lot of our discussion today, it may

719
00:36:34,239 --> 00:36:37,040
Speaker 1: just be that deer and what that deer wants to do.

720
00:36:37,120 --> 00:36:38,960
Speaker 1: And you know, if he's that bully buck that wants

721
00:36:39,000 --> 00:36:41,120
Speaker 1: to come try to you know, whoop my butt to

722
00:36:41,120 --> 00:36:42,760
Speaker 1: to take my do over, So the other one didn't

723
00:36:42,800 --> 00:36:45,560
Speaker 1: have that much you know, interest and and a lock

724
00:36:45,640 --> 00:36:47,520
Speaker 1: up or a fight or anything like that. I thought,

725
00:36:47,680 --> 00:36:51,319
Speaker 1: I think it it depended on that buck's personality. You know,

726
00:36:51,480 --> 00:36:54,160
Speaker 1: see a lover or a fighter or a dancer or whatever.

727
00:36:54,560 --> 00:36:57,000
Speaker 1: And then did you catch him in the right mood?

728
00:36:57,200 --> 00:36:59,279
Speaker 1: You know, is he ready to jump up and come fight?

729
00:36:59,360 --> 00:37:02,080
Speaker 1: And some are and some aren't. And you and I

730
00:37:02,160 --> 00:37:04,520
Speaker 1: have been in the exact same experiences, whether it be

731
00:37:04,520 --> 00:37:07,200
Speaker 1: a grunt call or rattle and antlers, where you were

732
00:37:07,360 --> 00:37:11,600
Speaker 1: simultaneously looking at two different bucks and they're about the

733
00:37:11,640 --> 00:37:14,080
Speaker 1: same distance away, so it's not because they didn't hear.

734
00:37:14,640 --> 00:37:17,160
Speaker 1: And one of them lifts his head or just twitches

735
00:37:17,160 --> 00:37:20,640
Speaker 1: his ear and for the most part ignores you, and

736
00:37:20,719 --> 00:37:22,719
Speaker 1: another one picks his head up and comes running in.

737
00:37:23,000 --> 00:37:27,000
Speaker 1: And I don't know, that's what makes it fun. I

738
00:37:27,000 --> 00:37:29,120
Speaker 1: don't know. We got to hunt out of a ground

739
00:37:29,120 --> 00:37:31,200
Speaker 1: blind a couple of days, and you know, we we

740
00:37:31,280 --> 00:37:32,960
Speaker 1: do that. Let's get up, make sure there's no deer

741
00:37:32,960 --> 00:37:35,359
Speaker 1: around before we grunt or rattle, and we do our

742
00:37:35,480 --> 00:37:38,640
Speaker 1: little secret, you know sequence. And there would be times

743
00:37:38,719 --> 00:37:40,959
Speaker 1: where you would grunt and you would have a buck

744
00:37:41,080 --> 00:37:42,959
Speaker 1: just coming real slow. You can see him out maybe

745
00:37:42,960 --> 00:37:45,680
Speaker 1: your blind side window. You're coming real slow. There were

746
00:37:45,719 --> 00:37:48,080
Speaker 1: other times, and I'm using these simultaneously grunts or rotting.

747
00:37:48,080 --> 00:37:50,360
Speaker 1: There other times we'd smash the horns together or grunt

748
00:37:50,600 --> 00:37:53,160
Speaker 1: and you would have a deer come fly into the woods,

749
00:37:53,200 --> 00:37:55,560
Speaker 1: and once again you were trying to figure out, like

750
00:37:55,800 --> 00:37:57,680
Speaker 1: does it matter how hot of dose are in the

751
00:37:57,719 --> 00:38:02,040
Speaker 1: area if he's just completely looking for one, I'll probably

752
00:38:02,080 --> 00:38:05,000
Speaker 1: go to my grave never knowing the answer. But it

753
00:38:05,719 --> 00:38:07,480
Speaker 1: isn't it, you know, whether it's an engineer me just

754
00:38:07,480 --> 00:38:09,160
Speaker 1: wanting to know if I can be a more educated hunter.

755
00:38:09,200 --> 00:38:11,600
Speaker 1: It's like, why did one dear you know, take his

756
00:38:11,680 --> 00:38:14,359
Speaker 1: time very cautiously come in, and then why that other

757
00:38:14,400 --> 00:38:17,000
Speaker 1: deer like charge the blind, you know, come flying by

758
00:38:17,000 --> 00:38:21,200
Speaker 1: it five yards and run past us, and um, yeah,

759
00:38:21,239 --> 00:38:24,080
Speaker 1: I don't know. Um if if you know, we'll ever

760
00:38:24,160 --> 00:38:27,879
Speaker 1: have the answer, it sounds like the probably no, we'll

761
00:38:27,920 --> 00:38:32,359
Speaker 1: probably never zip that up knowing the reason why. But um,

762
00:38:33,040 --> 00:38:36,200
Speaker 1: here's a cool little story. Is very similar to what

763
00:38:36,239 --> 00:38:39,640
Speaker 1: you're describing. But again with with rattling is in that

764
00:38:39,760 --> 00:38:43,560
Speaker 1: experiment Jason, we had of course, we did this for

765
00:38:43,640 --> 00:38:46,719
Speaker 1: days and days and weeks and weeks and replicated what

766
00:38:46,760 --> 00:38:49,399
Speaker 1: we were doing over and over and just what you're

767
00:38:49,440 --> 00:38:53,400
Speaker 1: you're describing. We we have some bucks that completely ignore

768
00:38:53,560 --> 00:38:56,680
Speaker 1: what you're doing. We we have some bucks that come

769
00:38:56,840 --> 00:38:59,200
Speaker 1: charging in and it's kind of like some of these

770
00:38:59,200 --> 00:39:01,759
Speaker 1: old videos are the guys on the ground rattling. The

771
00:39:01,760 --> 00:39:04,640
Speaker 1: next thing he knows he's getting knocked over by buck,

772
00:39:04,800 --> 00:39:07,319
Speaker 1: you know, just on top of him. But but then

773
00:39:07,360 --> 00:39:11,440
Speaker 1: you also on the exact same rattling sequence where you know,

774
00:39:11,560 --> 00:39:15,480
Speaker 1: to your left, this buck came charging in over to

775
00:39:15,560 --> 00:39:18,120
Speaker 1: your right. When you're done rattling, you look and they're

776
00:39:18,400 --> 00:39:21,960
Speaker 1: one had tiptoed, you know, one wasn't gonna come charging in.

777
00:39:22,040 --> 00:39:25,440
Speaker 1: They come circling around. They're just very cautious. And then

778
00:39:25,480 --> 00:39:28,960
Speaker 1: I had one example I still vividly remember, and again

779
00:39:28,960 --> 00:39:31,080
Speaker 1: this was in Texas. You could see a long ways,

780
00:39:31,160 --> 00:39:35,040
Speaker 1: but I see a buck about three maybe four hundred

781
00:39:35,080 --> 00:39:38,480
Speaker 1: yards away, and I'm wearing these antlers out, you know,

782
00:39:38,560 --> 00:39:41,680
Speaker 1: breaking a sweat, going as hard as I can. And

783
00:39:41,880 --> 00:39:46,240
Speaker 1: while I was rattling, you had to be making the sound.

784
00:39:46,400 --> 00:39:49,400
Speaker 1: While you were rattling, that buck was coming towards you.

785
00:39:50,160 --> 00:39:53,560
Speaker 1: But part of our protocol, our experimental protocol, was you

786
00:39:53,680 --> 00:39:56,800
Speaker 1: rattled for X amount, you you didn't for x amount,

787
00:39:56,920 --> 00:39:59,360
Speaker 1: you pick it up, and when you would put the

788
00:39:59,360 --> 00:40:04,040
Speaker 1: antlers on on your lap, that buck instantaneously would stop coming.

789
00:40:04,800 --> 00:40:07,319
Speaker 1: There was no memory in his head, like I'm gonna

790
00:40:07,400 --> 00:40:10,239
Speaker 1: keep going there as long as the stimulus of the

791
00:40:10,320 --> 00:40:13,360
Speaker 1: rattling antlers was taken away. He clipped and in three

792
00:40:13,440 --> 00:40:16,200
Speaker 1: rattling sequences, I brought him from that far away. Three

793
00:40:16,200 --> 00:40:18,640
Speaker 1: different times. He would stop and just go back to feeding,

794
00:40:18,800 --> 00:40:20,920
Speaker 1: pick him up, rattling again. Here he comes again. But

795
00:40:21,000 --> 00:40:23,440
Speaker 1: because he had to close the distance of four hundred yards,

796
00:40:23,760 --> 00:40:26,640
Speaker 1: you know, it took that long. Yeah, that's very similar

797
00:40:26,640 --> 00:40:31,160
Speaker 1: to predator calling bears they get they get uninterested very quickly,

798
00:40:31,200 --> 00:40:32,719
Speaker 1: so you have to stay on the call forever. So

799
00:40:32,760 --> 00:40:34,920
Speaker 1: it sounds really similar like they would move when you

800
00:40:34,920 --> 00:40:39,480
Speaker 1: were um, you know, rattling, but but not so. Uh.

801
00:40:39,680 --> 00:40:42,000
Speaker 1: One last thing I calling and then we'll we'll wrap

802
00:40:42,040 --> 00:40:44,800
Speaker 1: this up and put a bowl on it. Um grunting.

803
00:40:44,880 --> 00:40:47,839
Speaker 1: So in your opinion, I'll just maybe you can either

804
00:40:47,880 --> 00:40:49,520
Speaker 1: agree with me or disagree with me. When when we

805
00:40:49,560 --> 00:40:51,480
Speaker 1: got there, you know, Parish and Randy like, we're not

806
00:40:51,520 --> 00:40:54,480
Speaker 1: ever gonna grunt at a buck that's on lockdown or

807
00:40:54,480 --> 00:40:57,239
Speaker 1: that's chasing there, Like, we don't call to that, dear. Um,

808
00:40:57,280 --> 00:40:58,879
Speaker 1: they don't like to call first thing in the morning,

809
00:40:58,880 --> 00:41:01,239
Speaker 1: So we were doing morning in and evening sits. You know,

810
00:41:01,239 --> 00:41:03,640
Speaker 1: some people don't like to hunt mornings at certain times,

811
00:41:03,640 --> 00:41:05,799
Speaker 1: you're only agg at night. But we were. We only

812
00:41:05,800 --> 00:41:07,399
Speaker 1: had a certain amount of time from out of state.

813
00:41:07,480 --> 00:41:09,040
Speaker 1: We had to be in the tree at all times.

814
00:41:09,080 --> 00:41:11,640
Speaker 1: So um, you know, we tried not to grunt on

815
00:41:11,880 --> 00:41:15,279
Speaker 1: a buck that was locked down or chasing or chasing hard.

816
00:41:15,480 --> 00:41:18,800
Speaker 1: And then um, we didn't typically grunt in the morning.

817
00:41:19,280 --> 00:41:22,480
Speaker 1: Would you say grunting every thirty minutes is about right

818
00:41:22,600 --> 00:41:24,799
Speaker 1: if if nothing's around. My only concern is when I

819
00:41:24,800 --> 00:41:26,799
Speaker 1: looked at the pace that these bucks were running, if

820
00:41:26,800 --> 00:41:30,160
Speaker 1: I didn't say anything, if I just observed that dear

821
00:41:30,200 --> 00:41:31,600
Speaker 1: would be out of ear shot. Like you said, the

822
00:41:31,640 --> 00:41:33,680
Speaker 1: most important thing is he hears me. So then my

823
00:41:33,760 --> 00:41:35,799
Speaker 1: mind triggers, do I should be calling maybe every ten

824
00:41:35,800 --> 00:41:38,319
Speaker 1: minutes because that buck's gonna leave? Leave my you know,

825
00:41:38,440 --> 00:41:42,440
Speaker 1: radius that that you can hear me? What in your opinion,

826
00:41:42,440 --> 00:41:44,760
Speaker 1: what would be the And I know this may maybe

827
00:41:44,880 --> 00:41:47,560
Speaker 1: more of your hunting opinion and not necessarily research base,

828
00:41:47,640 --> 00:41:51,520
Speaker 1: but what's the right there? You know, cold calling, cold grunting?

829
00:41:51,560 --> 00:41:55,560
Speaker 1: I guess, um, yeah, and you're right, yeah, the sitting

830
00:41:55,640 --> 00:42:00,120
Speaker 1: research basis is just biologists that hunt's opinion. But but

831
00:42:00,120 --> 00:42:03,080
Speaker 1: but I think The single most important thing is as

832
00:42:03,120 --> 00:42:05,480
Speaker 1: you mentioned, is you know, a buck's got to hear it,

833
00:42:06,160 --> 00:42:08,839
Speaker 1: and and I'm not gonna sit up there and just

834
00:42:09,040 --> 00:42:12,560
Speaker 1: where a grunt call out the whole you know, every minute.

835
00:42:12,640 --> 00:42:15,200
Speaker 1: You know, I think that's just disturbance and all. I

836
00:42:15,200 --> 00:42:18,560
Speaker 1: think everything's getting alerted to your presence. But but I

837
00:42:18,640 --> 00:42:22,120
Speaker 1: would want to think of, like the example you mentioned earlier,

838
00:42:22,239 --> 00:42:26,920
Speaker 1: is that every fifteen two at the most thirty minutes,

839
00:42:27,040 --> 00:42:31,600
Speaker 1: I want the opportunity that, however, whatever that distance is,

840
00:42:31,640 --> 00:42:35,400
Speaker 1: based on the configuration of the land, uh, the wind, noise,

841
00:42:35,440 --> 00:42:38,000
Speaker 1: et cetera. I want to be sure that if there

842
00:42:38,080 --> 00:42:40,960
Speaker 1: is a deer within say two hundred yards of me,

843
00:42:41,640 --> 00:42:43,680
Speaker 1: is that and not maybe I don't see him, that

844
00:42:43,760 --> 00:42:46,600
Speaker 1: he can hear me. So I'm thinking probably every fifteen

845
00:42:46,640 --> 00:42:48,920
Speaker 1: to twenty minutes, I'm gonna do that a couple of

846
00:42:48,920 --> 00:42:51,400
Speaker 1: times and just see if I get a response that

847
00:42:51,480 --> 00:42:52,560
Speaker 1: That's kind of what we did, and we kind of

848
00:42:52,640 --> 00:42:54,880
Speaker 1: rotated our grunning versus rattling, like you know, maybe a

849
00:42:54,920 --> 00:42:58,160
Speaker 1: bucks more interested in rattling versus grunning. So whether now

850
00:42:58,200 --> 00:43:01,120
Speaker 1: you're only rattling every thirty forty five minutes and grunting

851
00:43:01,120 --> 00:43:03,480
Speaker 1: every thirty five mixing him in it seemed to be

852
00:43:03,520 --> 00:43:06,280
Speaker 1: a good mix and it kept you know, enough action

853
00:43:06,360 --> 00:43:08,680
Speaker 1: or enough dear coming to the to the location to

854
00:43:08,760 --> 00:43:11,640
Speaker 1: keep us interested in and not get get bored. Um.

855
00:43:12,520 --> 00:43:16,120
Speaker 1: Uh rattling the type time of year are you rattling from?

856
00:43:16,160 --> 00:43:18,120
Speaker 1: You know started pre rout all the way through you

857
00:43:18,120 --> 00:43:20,520
Speaker 1: know even post rut um is that is that the

858
00:43:20,560 --> 00:43:22,960
Speaker 1: ideal time you're gonna get dear to respond to that?

859
00:43:23,040 --> 00:43:28,440
Speaker 1: Then pre rut number one, post rut number two is

860
00:43:28,480 --> 00:43:31,880
Speaker 1: all about Yeah, it's all about being lucky that a

861
00:43:31,960 --> 00:43:36,719
Speaker 1: dove buck tending a dough is has finished breeding and

862
00:43:36,760 --> 00:43:40,320
Speaker 1: he's on the search, and the probability of you catching

863
00:43:40,400 --> 00:43:43,479
Speaker 1: him then is just last versus in the pre rut

864
00:43:43,520 --> 00:43:46,640
Speaker 1: when all the bucks are roaming and looking and searching,

865
00:43:46,880 --> 00:43:50,920
Speaker 1: you just have greater odds um bleats. Where do they

866
00:43:50,960 --> 00:43:53,160
Speaker 1: have their place and calls or should we just leave

867
00:43:53,200 --> 00:43:54,880
Speaker 1: our bleak calls at home all the time or is

868
00:43:54,920 --> 00:43:56,839
Speaker 1: there a place where they can be effective? And and

869
00:43:56,880 --> 00:44:01,560
Speaker 1: how a dough would you know naturally use that sound? Um?

870
00:44:02,640 --> 00:44:07,040
Speaker 1: It definitely works and uh I've I've used it and

871
00:44:07,200 --> 00:44:10,200
Speaker 1: gotten a response um like a lot of people have.

872
00:44:10,280 --> 00:44:12,560
Speaker 1: In terms of a dough coming in and charging in.

873
00:44:13,360 --> 00:44:16,960
Speaker 1: It's just difficult, at least for me. And maybe I'm

874
00:44:17,000 --> 00:44:20,080
Speaker 1: not a good enough hunter um where I could manage

875
00:44:20,160 --> 00:44:23,160
Speaker 1: that and try to get a shot under undetected. But

876
00:44:23,480 --> 00:44:26,640
Speaker 1: to me, it's just that the dough is coming in

877
00:44:26,760 --> 00:44:30,680
Speaker 1: on high, high alert and is focused in where that

878
00:44:30,760 --> 00:44:33,120
Speaker 1: sound is coming from, so trying to get a bow

879
00:44:33,239 --> 00:44:37,440
Speaker 1: drawn back is difficult. Yeah, it can be effective. I

880
00:44:37,520 --> 00:44:40,000
Speaker 1: had about an hour loll on the day I actually

881
00:44:40,040 --> 00:44:43,200
Speaker 1: killed my buck um and and just bleeded. I had

882
00:44:43,200 --> 00:44:44,800
Speaker 1: granted a couple of times or nothing. Time. I'm just

883
00:44:44,840 --> 00:44:46,239
Speaker 1: gonna switch it up. I got the call in my

884
00:44:46,360 --> 00:44:49,080
Speaker 1: in my pocket, and whether it was that or not,

885
00:44:49,160 --> 00:44:50,759
Speaker 1: or whether they were already coming, that's a hard part.

886
00:44:50,760 --> 00:44:52,120
Speaker 1: You don't know if they were already on their way,

887
00:44:52,400 --> 00:44:54,960
Speaker 1: you know, two days showed up, uh you know, five

888
00:44:55,080 --> 00:44:57,000
Speaker 1: seven minutes later and they had four you know, two

889
00:44:57,000 --> 00:44:59,399
Speaker 1: bucks each on them, and it's like, well, I don't

890
00:44:59,400 --> 00:45:01,279
Speaker 1: know if it worked not, but I'm not gonna not

891
00:45:01,400 --> 00:45:03,120
Speaker 1: do it. You know, we'll have to test it more

892
00:45:03,160 --> 00:45:05,080
Speaker 1: in the future. But you know, those dose did show up,

893
00:45:05,120 --> 00:45:06,719
Speaker 1: they did turn and it took about a half hour

894
00:45:06,800 --> 00:45:09,120
Speaker 1: for the bucks to finally come back. But um, you

895
00:45:09,160 --> 00:45:11,120
Speaker 1: know bleats, we we don't use them a whole lot.

896
00:45:11,120 --> 00:45:12,480
Speaker 1: We didn't use them a whole lot, but we did

897
00:45:12,600 --> 00:45:14,399
Speaker 1: use them, you know, just a few times to see

898
00:45:14,440 --> 00:45:16,400
Speaker 1: how um and when we were trying to get you know,

899
00:45:16,440 --> 00:45:18,600
Speaker 1: does to come to come to our location. And that

900
00:45:18,719 --> 00:45:20,960
Speaker 1: last sound that we're we're gonna use in hunting, um,

901
00:45:21,080 --> 00:45:22,880
Speaker 1: that snort weeds? Are you going to load that up

902
00:45:22,920 --> 00:45:25,520
Speaker 1: more in the pre rut um and avoid it during lockdown?

903
00:45:25,600 --> 00:45:27,239
Speaker 1: And and are you gonna come back to it in

904
00:45:27,239 --> 00:45:30,600
Speaker 1: the post rut? You know that that's one I've never

905
00:45:31,000 --> 00:45:34,719
Speaker 1: never used before. Um, I've seen it used before and

906
00:45:34,960 --> 00:45:39,320
Speaker 1: it can be effective, and I would think I would, Um,

907
00:45:39,400 --> 00:45:42,279
Speaker 1: I think that might be more of a post rut

908
00:45:42,400 --> 00:45:47,520
Speaker 1: for me doing that. UM, I probably have to put

909
00:45:47,520 --> 00:45:51,200
Speaker 1: more thought into that than I am now. But I

910
00:45:51,560 --> 00:45:54,280
Speaker 1: guess my logic is that during the pre rut, bucks

911
00:45:54,280 --> 00:45:58,359
Speaker 1: are just moving around more often, and if they get

912
00:45:58,440 --> 00:46:01,560
Speaker 1: challenged at that time, uh, maybe they're just gonna move

913
00:46:01,600 --> 00:46:05,040
Speaker 1: on and keep looking the versus Uh, in the peak

914
00:46:05,040 --> 00:46:07,040
Speaker 1: of the rut or post rut, they might be more

915
00:46:07,080 --> 00:46:11,239
Speaker 1: willing to accept the challenge and fight. But that's a

916
00:46:11,239 --> 00:46:14,360
Speaker 1: good question. Yeah, I know, you know just and like

917
00:46:14,400 --> 00:46:15,960
Speaker 1: I said, you can read anything on the internet, so

918
00:46:15,960 --> 00:46:18,400
Speaker 1: whether you've proofed it or not. But people that you know,

919
00:46:18,480 --> 00:46:20,319
Speaker 1: I know, they use it more pre rut. And I

920
00:46:20,320 --> 00:46:22,600
Speaker 1: know you know the guys that I was hunting with

921
00:46:22,800 --> 00:46:25,040
Speaker 1: in the Midwest, they were like, I we don't sport

922
00:46:25,040 --> 00:46:27,320
Speaker 1: we is during the middle of the rut. And um,

923
00:46:27,360 --> 00:46:28,680
Speaker 1: you know which it sounds like you don't do a

924
00:46:28,680 --> 00:46:30,200
Speaker 1: whole lot in the middle of it, like you said, besides,

925
00:46:30,239 --> 00:46:31,840
Speaker 1: get lucky and hope you just put your stand in

926
00:46:31,880 --> 00:46:35,040
Speaker 1: the right place where. Um, you know, either he's chasing

927
00:46:35,040 --> 00:46:36,920
Speaker 1: the door around or he's returning from chasing the door

928
00:46:36,920 --> 00:46:46,120
Speaker 1: around and passing through trying to find a new one.

929
00:46:47,400 --> 00:46:49,920
Speaker 1: All right, Well, I really appreciate having you on an

930
00:46:49,960 --> 00:46:53,120
Speaker 1: inclosing Um, Dr Strickland, I'm gonna I'm gonna leave you

931
00:46:53,160 --> 00:46:55,120
Speaker 1: with this one. If if you could give advice to

932
00:46:55,200 --> 00:46:57,680
Speaker 1: hunters by using you know, a deer's biology or their

933
00:46:57,719 --> 00:47:00,279
Speaker 1: instinct against them to find successful would that one hip,

934
00:47:00,320 --> 00:47:10,600
Speaker 1: B Well, that's that's a good one. Um. Probably a

935
00:47:10,680 --> 00:47:14,080
Speaker 1: pretty boring answer here. I would probably just go back

936
00:47:14,120 --> 00:47:20,000
Speaker 1: to my to my fundamentals of don't disturb, don't constantly

937
00:47:20,560 --> 00:47:26,160
Speaker 1: disturb where where deer or bedded? Um, think strategically about

938
00:47:26,320 --> 00:47:29,719
Speaker 1: where cover is at, Think strategically about where food is at.

939
00:47:30,360 --> 00:47:34,479
Speaker 1: Uh use the wind, try to get get in and out. Um.

940
00:47:34,600 --> 00:47:37,560
Speaker 1: So I guess in terms of the biology against them,

941
00:47:37,600 --> 00:47:41,680
Speaker 1: it would be their stomach that makes a ton of sense.

942
00:47:41,680 --> 00:47:44,000
Speaker 1: So I'm gonna I was gonna have you clothes on that.

943
00:47:44,040 --> 00:47:47,040
Speaker 1: But now I've got another question that popped up. Um,

944
00:47:47,160 --> 00:47:49,240
Speaker 1: would you say, just as far as I even checking

945
00:47:49,320 --> 00:47:52,440
Speaker 1: cell cameras like that, deer may not see you, may

946
00:47:52,440 --> 00:47:54,160
Speaker 1: not hear you on that day, but he may pick

947
00:47:54,280 --> 00:47:56,319
Speaker 1: up you know, as you said, one or two or

948
00:47:56,320 --> 00:47:59,320
Speaker 1: ten molecules, whatever that number is. That's that's a low amountain.

949
00:47:59,400 --> 00:48:02,240
Speaker 1: It just puts some want alert. Are you saying just completely?

950
00:48:02,440 --> 00:48:04,480
Speaker 1: You know, we should be using cell cameras, like unless

951
00:48:04,520 --> 00:48:07,960
Speaker 1: it's some farmer agg that has to happen, you know, harvest,

952
00:48:08,280 --> 00:48:10,200
Speaker 1: we should just kind of leave those things alone as

953
00:48:10,280 --> 00:48:17,040
Speaker 1: much as possible. Well, I guess I would say that, UM,

954
00:48:17,400 --> 00:48:22,160
Speaker 1: disturbance isn't just a gunshot, you know, disturbances your present,

955
00:48:22,280 --> 00:48:25,200
Speaker 1: your scent, the sound of your a TV, the truck door.

956
00:48:25,640 --> 00:48:28,920
Speaker 1: You know that. I think it's though all the collection

957
00:48:28,960 --> 00:48:33,040
Speaker 1: of those events over time, alert dear at the population scale,

958
00:48:33,040 --> 00:48:36,919
Speaker 1: does something's changed, something's different, And so you know, I'm

959
00:48:36,960 --> 00:48:39,400
Speaker 1: still gonna run up a trail camera and check it

960
00:48:39,440 --> 00:48:41,759
Speaker 1: throughout the year. But I think you just have to

961
00:48:41,880 --> 00:48:45,759
Speaker 1: treat those as almost like a hunt. Um. I don't

962
00:48:45,760 --> 00:48:50,120
Speaker 1: think everybody can run twenty cellular activated cameras, you know,

963
00:48:50,680 --> 00:48:52,480
Speaker 1: but I think it's not going in there and checking

964
00:48:52,480 --> 00:48:54,560
Speaker 1: it every third day. It might be every couple of

965
00:48:54,560 --> 00:48:57,600
Speaker 1: weeks looking at it and and even treating the wind

966
00:48:57,719 --> 00:49:00,959
Speaker 1: approaching your camera set up much like a hunt. Stand. Yeah,

967
00:49:01,000 --> 00:49:02,399
Speaker 1: you don't go in the middle of the morning when

968
00:49:02,400 --> 00:49:03,719
Speaker 1: he might be on that plotter and that you go

969
00:49:03,760 --> 00:49:05,040
Speaker 1: in the middle of the day where you think he's

970
00:49:05,080 --> 00:49:08,120
Speaker 1: moved off. And yeah, that just taking all of those precautions,

971
00:49:08,120 --> 00:49:09,480
Speaker 1: like you said, make sure you got the right wind,

972
00:49:09,560 --> 00:49:13,200
Speaker 1: even check your camera. Um, all that stuff seems to

973
00:49:13,239 --> 00:49:16,000
Speaker 1: just add up and and just like everything we've talked about,

974
00:49:16,400 --> 00:49:19,520
Speaker 1: I think it's a decision on you know, you have

975
00:49:19,560 --> 00:49:23,080
Speaker 1: to weigh the benefit versus the detriment, right, Um. You know,

976
00:49:23,440 --> 00:49:26,080
Speaker 1: I looked at like the hinge cutting of one of

977
00:49:26,120 --> 00:49:28,640
Speaker 1: these areas, like you're gonna go into a Bucks area

978
00:49:28,680 --> 00:49:31,200
Speaker 1: that he's probably already using. But does hinge cutting make

979
00:49:31,200 --> 00:49:34,399
Speaker 1: it that much better? Um? Is it worth the week

980
00:49:34,520 --> 00:49:36,400
Speaker 1: or two of of hinge cutting? You know all of

981
00:49:36,440 --> 00:49:38,480
Speaker 1: these oaks and you know some of that stuff is

982
00:49:38,480 --> 00:49:40,200
Speaker 1: what I'm still trying to get my you know, my

983
00:49:40,320 --> 00:49:43,440
Speaker 1: head around, like what's worth it, what's not? What's you know,

984
00:49:43,600 --> 00:49:45,600
Speaker 1: what could push that buck out of there versus what

985
00:49:45,760 --> 00:49:48,000
Speaker 1: may you know bring two more bucks into the area.

986
00:49:48,680 --> 00:49:51,040
Speaker 1: Is I think that's that game that everybody plays, trying

987
00:49:51,040 --> 00:49:54,520
Speaker 1: to keep big bucks girl, big bucks. Um. Yeah, And

988
00:49:54,800 --> 00:49:58,160
Speaker 1: I think like the example, you gave a buck maybe

989
00:49:58,280 --> 00:50:01,200
Speaker 1: using it, but you want him to who use it differently?

990
00:50:01,360 --> 00:50:04,880
Speaker 1: So the buck maybe using that wood lot by just

991
00:50:05,000 --> 00:50:09,160
Speaker 1: passing through, but but you want him to bed right there,

992
00:50:09,239 --> 00:50:11,560
Speaker 1: or you want multiple deer to bed right there. That's

993
00:50:11,560 --> 00:50:15,080
Speaker 1: where being manipulative like that and hinge cutting or or

994
00:50:15,120 --> 00:50:18,719
Speaker 1: just cutting trees could help a lot. Yeah. And there

995
00:50:18,719 --> 00:50:21,160
Speaker 1: could be a short term negative effect. There could be

996
00:50:21,160 --> 00:50:23,480
Speaker 1: a short term negative effect, but years later it's gonna

997
00:50:23,520 --> 00:50:26,640
Speaker 1: be positive. Yeah. Play play the long game and right

998
00:50:26,800 --> 00:50:28,640
Speaker 1: you get you'll get the benefit out of it. So

999
00:50:29,080 --> 00:50:32,360
Speaker 1: I really appreciate having you here. Dr Bronson Strickland a

1000
00:50:32,480 --> 00:50:34,200
Speaker 1: wealth of knowledge. I probably could have talked to you

1001
00:50:34,239 --> 00:50:37,520
Speaker 1: all day about white tells, but I appreciate the time. Yeah,

1002
00:50:37,560 --> 00:50:39,920
Speaker 1: yeah gave us and good luck now that your seasons

1003
00:50:39,920 --> 00:50:42,720
Speaker 1: are just getting going down there. Yeah, I'm looking forward

1004
00:50:42,760 --> 00:50:44,399
Speaker 1: to it. Time to get out and hunt some more.

1005
00:50:44,520 --> 00:51:14,600
Speaker 1: Thanks so much for the opportunity and enjoy talking to you. Yeah. Thanks.

1006
00:50:58,640 --> 00:50:58,680
Speaker 1: M