1 00:00:00,040 --> 00:00:07,760 Speaker 1: M all the things that it takes to be a 2 00:00:07,760 --> 00:00:10,440 Speaker 1: really good dirt lion hunter. Warner is all of those. 3 00:00:11,000 --> 00:00:15,640 Speaker 1: Everyone on this episode of the Bear Grease Podcasts, we're 4 00:00:15,720 --> 00:00:19,400 Speaker 1: back in the open country of southeast Arizona. This is 5 00:00:19,440 --> 00:00:21,920 Speaker 1: part two in our series on the life of a 6 00:00:21,920 --> 00:00:26,040 Speaker 1: living legend, Warner Glenn. We're also going to learn more 7 00:00:26,079 --> 00:00:30,560 Speaker 1: about Kelly Warner's daughter in her life in movies and modeling. 8 00:00:30,920 --> 00:00:34,560 Speaker 1: Will dive in deep into dry ground lion hunting, which 9 00:00:34,640 --> 00:00:37,920 Speaker 1: I believe will aid us in getting our pH ds 10 00:00:38,080 --> 00:00:42,920 Speaker 1: as knowledgeable American woodsman. You gotta know something about dry 11 00:00:43,080 --> 00:00:47,400 Speaker 1: ground lion hunting. Will also learn about when Mr Warner 12 00:00:47,479 --> 00:00:50,920 Speaker 1: almost went to prison and how it impacted his life, 13 00:00:51,040 --> 00:00:54,920 Speaker 1: including his involvement in the founding of a very influential 14 00:00:54,960 --> 00:01:00,360 Speaker 1: conservation group called the Malpai Borderlands Group. You're not gonna 15 00:01:00,440 --> 00:01:03,560 Speaker 1: wanna miss this one. I think if a person going 16 00:01:03,560 --> 00:01:08,200 Speaker 1: anyway he likes to do, that's the big head to 17 00:01:08,280 --> 00:01:19,840 Speaker 1: his heart board. My name is Clay Nukelem and this 18 00:01:19,920 --> 00:01:24,000 Speaker 1: is the bear Grease Podcast where we'll explore things forgotten 19 00:01:24,240 --> 00:01:28,440 Speaker 1: but relevant, search for insight and unlikely places, and where 20 00:01:28,520 --> 00:01:32,280 Speaker 1: we'll tell the story of Americans who lived their lives 21 00:01:32,400 --> 00:01:38,119 Speaker 1: close to the land presented by f HF Gear, American made, 22 00:01:38,360 --> 00:01:42,039 Speaker 1: purpose built hunting and fishing gear that's designed to be 23 00:01:42,120 --> 00:01:52,360 Speaker 1: as rugged as the places we explore. Guys, we've got 24 00:01:52,360 --> 00:01:56,840 Speaker 1: an exclusive bear Grease discount code for f h F 25 00:01:57,040 --> 00:01:59,960 Speaker 1: Gear that's Fish Hunt Fight Gear. 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So 35 00:02:29,360 --> 00:02:32,040 Speaker 1: go to f h F gear dot com forward slash 36 00:02:32,120 --> 00:02:36,160 Speaker 1: bear grease for a special code. If you're buying stuff 37 00:02:36,400 --> 00:02:38,960 Speaker 1: from f h F Gear, check it out Fish Hunt 38 00:02:39,000 --> 00:02:55,160 Speaker 1: Fight f h F Gear. We've again found ourselves on 39 00:02:55,200 --> 00:02:59,040 Speaker 1: the borderlands of the Southern United States in southeast Arizona. 40 00:02:59,480 --> 00:03:03,440 Speaker 1: On the lavelast episode, we were introduced to Warner Glenn. 41 00:03:03,919 --> 00:03:07,280 Speaker 1: He can see Old Mexico from his house. He's eighty 42 00:03:07,320 --> 00:03:10,240 Speaker 1: five years old and lives the life of an authentic 43 00:03:10,320 --> 00:03:14,000 Speaker 1: American cowboy with a heavy dose of mountain lion hunter. 44 00:03:14,639 --> 00:03:18,760 Speaker 1: Lion hunting and ranching, you see, go hand in hand 45 00:03:19,120 --> 00:03:22,120 Speaker 1: and have since this part of the country was settled 46 00:03:22,160 --> 00:03:35,960 Speaker 1: by cattle ranchers. Right this morning, Rosalie, that's the name 47 00:03:35,960 --> 00:03:41,800 Speaker 1: of the meal you're putting me on. Rosalie? How old 48 00:03:41,880 --> 00:03:45,200 Speaker 1: is this meal? That to any problem with her? She's 49 00:03:45,200 --> 00:03:52,200 Speaker 1: about seven. It's too bad you hate you do We 50 00:03:52,320 --> 00:03:56,560 Speaker 1: walk over to a bigger bay colored mule, a brown mule. 51 00:03:57,360 --> 00:03:59,600 Speaker 1: So this is your go to meal. This is what 52 00:03:59,800 --> 00:04:03,720 Speaker 1: this name? Vivian, how old is she? Dan, you got 53 00:04:03,720 --> 00:04:06,720 Speaker 1: to be fifteen years old? This is your This is 54 00:04:06,760 --> 00:04:09,400 Speaker 1: the one you go to when you gotta Well, usually 55 00:04:09,440 --> 00:04:13,080 Speaker 1: I'm right differently, at least every other day. I've got 56 00:04:13,160 --> 00:04:18,720 Speaker 1: three on right, regular Bridger and Vivian in breyer So 57 00:04:19,360 --> 00:04:23,719 Speaker 1: and Kelly. She got Rosalie, even Pete and some of 58 00:04:23,720 --> 00:04:27,360 Speaker 1: the others. When when does a mule get just right? 59 00:04:27,440 --> 00:04:32,600 Speaker 1: And that depends depended long But but I'll tell you what. 60 00:04:33,160 --> 00:04:36,159 Speaker 1: As far as being demo and trustworthy and everything, I 61 00:04:36,200 --> 00:04:40,360 Speaker 1: would say like six or seven to where you could 62 00:04:40,400 --> 00:04:45,520 Speaker 1: trust him with anybody, right, and you can. You can 63 00:04:45,640 --> 00:04:49,040 Speaker 1: ride him two or three, but you better be ready 64 00:04:49,120 --> 00:04:51,280 Speaker 1: for a little wreck if it should have. You know, 65 00:04:51,920 --> 00:04:55,760 Speaker 1: they're just not used to everything. And he's mountains. I 66 00:04:55,839 --> 00:05:01,000 Speaker 1: tell you they're hard. Yeah. Mr Warner threads of leather 67 00:05:01,160 --> 00:05:05,000 Speaker 1: pistol holster onto his belt. He carries a three fifty 68 00:05:05,080 --> 00:05:09,000 Speaker 1: seven revolver. So every day when you're just out riding, 69 00:05:09,080 --> 00:05:12,719 Speaker 1: you're carrying a side arm. I do and what do 70 00:05:12,800 --> 00:05:16,120 Speaker 1: you I tell you never know when you're gonna need 71 00:05:16,720 --> 00:05:19,520 Speaker 1: need one for it could be some kind of bombardment. 72 00:05:19,880 --> 00:05:25,200 Speaker 1: But most of these rancher's not Dave. The drug traffic 73 00:05:25,279 --> 00:05:28,200 Speaker 1: through here and all shoulder. What do you never know? 74 00:05:28,920 --> 00:05:35,120 Speaker 1: Sure it doesn't hurt that one. We're now out by 75 00:05:35,120 --> 00:05:38,280 Speaker 1: the dog kennels. In part one, Mr Warner told us 76 00:05:38,279 --> 00:05:41,279 Speaker 1: that he's got sixteen hounds, and he told us about 77 00:05:41,279 --> 00:05:46,440 Speaker 1: his best hound hook. What's what's this Dog's this? You tracker? 78 00:05:46,880 --> 00:05:50,640 Speaker 1: He's a young one. He's only year and acho being 79 00:05:50,720 --> 00:05:54,800 Speaker 1: in on about three three when he's gonna make I've 80 00:05:54,800 --> 00:06:01,440 Speaker 1: it really got high hope for him. In the big 81 00:06:01,440 --> 00:06:07,960 Speaker 1: old athletic dog. He's only two. Oh, he's the number 82 00:06:07,960 --> 00:06:12,360 Speaker 1: two dogs. With sixteen dogs scattered in front of us, 83 00:06:12,360 --> 00:06:15,560 Speaker 1: we make a five mile loop, giving him some exercise. 84 00:06:16,279 --> 00:06:19,839 Speaker 1: On our ride, we can look into Old Mexico. We 85 00:06:19,880 --> 00:06:22,760 Speaker 1: can see the border wall, and I'm amazed that an 86 00:06:22,800 --> 00:06:26,000 Speaker 1: eighty five year old man is still going like he's 87 00:06:26,080 --> 00:06:39,039 Speaker 1: forty five. Warner's father, Marvin, started lyon hunting in the 88 00:06:39,120 --> 00:06:42,240 Speaker 1: nineteen thirties when their horse, colts, and cattle were being 89 00:06:42,320 --> 00:06:45,719 Speaker 1: killed by mountain lions. It wasn't their fault, the lions 90 00:06:45,760 --> 00:06:48,640 Speaker 1: were just being lions. And it really wasn't Marvin and 91 00:06:48,720 --> 00:06:51,920 Speaker 1: Warner's fault for becoming lion hunters. It's just what they 92 00:06:51,960 --> 00:06:54,360 Speaker 1: had to do to protect their way of life. In 93 00:06:54,480 --> 00:06:58,440 Speaker 1: nineteen seven, Marvin had become an expert at what we 94 00:06:58,520 --> 00:07:02,400 Speaker 1: say in the business catch in lions. The American economy 95 00:07:02,480 --> 00:07:05,640 Speaker 1: was booming after World War Two. People began to have 96 00:07:05,760 --> 00:07:10,240 Speaker 1: disposable income, and Marvin turned his craft into a business 97 00:07:10,440 --> 00:07:15,720 Speaker 1: and started outfitting the Glens became nationally renowned as dry 98 00:07:15,880 --> 00:07:21,280 Speaker 1: ground lion hunters. In Warner and his daughter Kelly still 99 00:07:21,440 --> 00:07:24,000 Speaker 1: hunt the same dirt as Marvin, with some of the 100 00:07:24,080 --> 00:07:27,920 Speaker 1: same lineage of dogs and with the same unique mix 101 00:07:27,960 --> 00:07:33,080 Speaker 1: of integrity, genuine hospitality, and toughness that defines this desert 102 00:07:33,240 --> 00:07:36,240 Speaker 1: and the people that make a living off the land. Here, 103 00:07:39,040 --> 00:07:42,320 Speaker 1: before we dive into lion dogs and fist fights, I 104 00:07:42,400 --> 00:07:46,960 Speaker 1: want to talk about Kelly Glenn, Kembro Warner's daughter. She 105 00:07:47,080 --> 00:07:49,960 Speaker 1: has lived a very interesting life. We heard about her 106 00:07:50,040 --> 00:07:54,080 Speaker 1: mule wreck and helicopter rescue, and about her getting bit 107 00:07:54,240 --> 00:07:56,920 Speaker 1: by a lion. Go check that out in part one 108 00:07:57,080 --> 00:07:59,600 Speaker 1: if you hadn't listened to it. I'd like, though, to 109 00:07:59,800 --> 00:08:02,440 Speaker 1: hear her about two parts of her life that went 110 00:08:02,560 --> 00:08:06,240 Speaker 1: beyond ranching and hunting. I bet you won't be able 111 00:08:06,280 --> 00:08:09,320 Speaker 1: to guess what they are. If you're over thirty five 112 00:08:09,400 --> 00:08:13,360 Speaker 1: years old and a gun enthusiast, you've probably seen a 113 00:08:13,440 --> 00:08:17,640 Speaker 1: picture of Kelly. We were always a part of the hunting, 114 00:08:17,760 --> 00:08:20,520 Speaker 1: so my dad and my grandpa Marvin hunted all winter. 115 00:08:20,640 --> 00:08:23,400 Speaker 1: They hunted a lot of lions and deer. We guided 116 00:08:23,480 --> 00:08:26,840 Speaker 1: for custier, mule deer, Hamelina and Lyon and it was 117 00:08:26,880 --> 00:08:29,800 Speaker 1: a busy. It was just what I thought life was about. 118 00:08:30,240 --> 00:08:33,960 Speaker 1: It was either cooking, fixing lunches, feeding mules, guiding. I 119 00:08:34,000 --> 00:08:37,480 Speaker 1: guided from the time I was seventeen with them, I 120 00:08:37,559 --> 00:08:39,880 Speaker 1: did not want to go to college. I loved it. 121 00:08:40,080 --> 00:08:44,840 Speaker 1: I craved guiding. I loved guiding for Custier especially, and 122 00:08:44,960 --> 00:08:49,440 Speaker 1: hunting mountain lions and so and they embraced that. And 123 00:08:49,480 --> 00:08:51,800 Speaker 1: it was kind of a man's world, you know. I 124 00:08:51,880 --> 00:08:54,400 Speaker 1: was a little girl growing up wanting to learn how 125 00:08:54,400 --> 00:08:57,640 Speaker 1: to track the lion and wanting to go glass for deer. 126 00:08:57,920 --> 00:09:00,319 Speaker 1: I didn't have any reason to go to town when 127 00:09:00,360 --> 00:09:02,880 Speaker 1: I went up to go off to college. My grandpa 128 00:09:03,040 --> 00:09:06,960 Speaker 1: got me a new rifle, a parka, all these things 129 00:09:07,360 --> 00:09:10,720 Speaker 1: to make my life more comfortable as a guide here. 130 00:09:11,280 --> 00:09:14,720 Speaker 1: So he didn't want me to go. Yeah. Anyway, Mom 131 00:09:14,720 --> 00:09:18,040 Speaker 1: and Dad raised us and my grandparents to work really hard. 132 00:09:18,480 --> 00:09:21,680 Speaker 1: We always had guests. We either had hunters, or in 133 00:09:21,720 --> 00:09:25,120 Speaker 1: the summer we had kids. So I went to college 134 00:09:25,280 --> 00:09:28,839 Speaker 1: and then I came back and went into the movie industry, 135 00:09:29,040 --> 00:09:31,840 Speaker 1: and I did casting in locations for eight years out 136 00:09:31,880 --> 00:09:35,320 Speaker 1: of Tucson. And I loved it because I could go 137 00:09:35,760 --> 00:09:38,800 Speaker 1: work on a show for thirty one days, come home 138 00:09:38,800 --> 00:09:42,120 Speaker 1: and hunt. So I kind of you. They would tell 139 00:09:42,160 --> 00:09:44,920 Speaker 1: you what they were looking for for scenery and was. 140 00:09:44,960 --> 00:09:49,160 Speaker 1: It was always Western top films, not necessarily, Um, I 141 00:09:49,240 --> 00:09:52,840 Speaker 1: did thirty three films. It was we did Terminal Velocity, 142 00:09:52,880 --> 00:09:57,520 Speaker 1: was Jerry Lewis, Johnny Depp, Fate Donaway, Paulina Poroskova, and 143 00:09:57,559 --> 00:10:00,480 Speaker 1: then we would do young guns and young writers, and 144 00:10:00,559 --> 00:10:03,720 Speaker 1: sometimes it was scenery and then sometimes it was years. 145 00:10:03,920 --> 00:10:09,880 Speaker 1: Did you do that from eighty five to about ninety three? 146 00:10:10,400 --> 00:10:13,480 Speaker 1: I got married ninety two and I kept doing it 147 00:10:13,559 --> 00:10:17,360 Speaker 1: for a moment after that. That's so interesting your family's 148 00:10:17,360 --> 00:10:21,520 Speaker 1: connection to two movies. Yeah, Well, first started a long 149 00:10:21,559 --> 00:10:24,640 Speaker 1: time before with your dad in the movies. He was 150 00:10:24,679 --> 00:10:28,960 Speaker 1: in your Grandfather. I now asked Kelly about a very 151 00:10:29,040 --> 00:10:32,640 Speaker 1: interesting job she had for thirty one years and how 152 00:10:32,679 --> 00:10:38,559 Speaker 1: her presence in the position was groundbreaking. So in J. J. 153 00:10:38,679 --> 00:10:40,840 Speaker 1: Sarry came. He was a good friend, you know, and 154 00:10:40,920 --> 00:10:43,320 Speaker 1: he asked, He called me and he goes. Kelly Ruger 155 00:10:43,440 --> 00:10:46,160 Speaker 1: called and they want me to photograph a girl or 156 00:10:46,200 --> 00:10:50,520 Speaker 1: a woman that lives a western life, carries a gun 157 00:10:50,960 --> 00:10:54,560 Speaker 1: and uses it, you know. So I said, okay, you know, 158 00:10:54,840 --> 00:10:57,360 Speaker 1: and I had gone right out of college. I went 159 00:10:57,440 --> 00:11:01,440 Speaker 1: to plase A three modeling in Tucson because a lot 160 00:11:01,480 --> 00:11:04,320 Speaker 1: of my family, distant family, said you've got to be 161 00:11:04,360 --> 00:11:06,679 Speaker 1: a model because I was six ft tall and skinny. 162 00:11:06,840 --> 00:11:09,680 Speaker 1: That was their basis. After a few weeks of that, 163 00:11:09,800 --> 00:11:12,480 Speaker 1: I figured out I didn't want to be a runway model. 164 00:11:12,920 --> 00:11:15,960 Speaker 1: But so we went down here and took a mule 165 00:11:16,280 --> 00:11:19,959 Speaker 1: and I had literally, my husband calls it my corrective 166 00:11:20,000 --> 00:11:22,840 Speaker 1: shoes because that's all I wear is ugly shoes. I 167 00:11:22,880 --> 00:11:26,040 Speaker 1: had on my brogans and a gun and braids, and 168 00:11:26,360 --> 00:11:30,360 Speaker 1: I was who I was and we took the picture. Well, 169 00:11:30,600 --> 00:11:34,600 Speaker 1: they loved it. Bill Ruger Sr. Was very skeptical because 170 00:11:34,640 --> 00:11:38,240 Speaker 1: he was a man's man and he really didn't want 171 00:11:38,400 --> 00:11:45,520 Speaker 1: his company represented by a girl that would have been 172 00:11:45,520 --> 00:11:50,080 Speaker 1: fairly Yes, it was new thinking. So it was a 173 00:11:50,080 --> 00:11:54,000 Speaker 1: trial run that first year, and there was a full 174 00:11:54,120 --> 00:11:57,440 Speaker 1: page in the Wall Street Journal there was. It just 175 00:11:57,600 --> 00:12:01,360 Speaker 1: blew up and went really good as Austin Nation, and 176 00:12:01,400 --> 00:12:04,800 Speaker 1: the Ruger followers loved it. So you were on. You 177 00:12:04,840 --> 00:12:08,400 Speaker 1: were on a lot of their advertising posters. They did 178 00:12:08,440 --> 00:12:11,720 Speaker 1: a poster every year. You stayed the Ruger Girl for 179 00:12:11,800 --> 00:12:16,000 Speaker 1: thirty one. Yeah, and just on on our way here, 180 00:12:16,400 --> 00:12:18,400 Speaker 1: my uncle told me that he had seen your picture 181 00:12:18,600 --> 00:12:21,200 Speaker 1: in a small town in Arkansas and a pawn shop 182 00:12:21,280 --> 00:12:24,760 Speaker 1: from a poster from years and years ago. Ye, So 183 00:12:24,800 --> 00:12:26,640 Speaker 1: I would do two shows a year, the n r 184 00:12:26,720 --> 00:12:28,719 Speaker 1: A Show and the Shot Show. The Shot Show was 185 00:12:28,800 --> 00:12:32,840 Speaker 1: more dealers international, national, you know guys in business suits. 186 00:12:33,000 --> 00:12:36,959 Speaker 1: The n r A Show was Americans. It was it 187 00:12:37,000 --> 00:12:41,560 Speaker 1: was coon hunters, farmers, guns store owners that would come 188 00:12:41,559 --> 00:12:45,880 Speaker 1: with their family because they could. So my job at 189 00:12:45,880 --> 00:12:49,000 Speaker 1: those shows was to sit in the ruger booth and 190 00:12:49,040 --> 00:12:51,200 Speaker 1: they would put a stack of posters in front of 191 00:12:51,240 --> 00:12:54,480 Speaker 1: me and I'd sign and they tell me who signed to. 192 00:12:54,600 --> 00:12:57,600 Speaker 1: The man would stand there and say my store is 193 00:12:57,920 --> 00:13:00,520 Speaker 1: you know B and B Guns or what? And I 194 00:13:00,679 --> 00:13:03,600 Speaker 1: signed to that store. When they all figured out, all 195 00:13:03,679 --> 00:13:06,840 Speaker 1: those people figured out I was a hunter for real, 196 00:13:07,240 --> 00:13:10,280 Speaker 1: they loved it. And then they would like flock around 197 00:13:10,320 --> 00:13:13,840 Speaker 1: and we'd talked about trailing dry ground hunting lions. But 198 00:13:13,920 --> 00:13:17,000 Speaker 1: it was great. I have. I kept a lot of 199 00:13:17,200 --> 00:13:19,760 Speaker 1: things that I got a lot of letters. You could 200 00:13:19,800 --> 00:13:24,040 Speaker 1: tell a person, a woman who wanted to become a 201 00:13:24,080 --> 00:13:27,880 Speaker 1: shooter and a hunter. She would timidly stand over there 202 00:13:28,000 --> 00:13:31,079 Speaker 1: and listen, and when finally they kind of broke up, 203 00:13:31,280 --> 00:13:33,840 Speaker 1: then she'd step up and she said, is there any 204 00:13:33,840 --> 00:13:37,439 Speaker 1: way you could we could talk about this again? And 205 00:13:37,559 --> 00:13:41,600 Speaker 1: so I share my address and and or nowadays it lately, 206 00:13:41,679 --> 00:13:43,559 Speaker 1: you know, the last twenty years it was an email, 207 00:13:43,920 --> 00:13:46,920 Speaker 1: but and we'd visit back and forth and I'd recommend 208 00:13:46,920 --> 00:13:52,320 Speaker 1: what firearms she should buy. So I coached unplanned. I 209 00:13:52,520 --> 00:13:58,800 Speaker 1: coached a lot of women and kids. Kelly was a 210 00:13:58,800 --> 00:14:02,800 Speaker 1: pioneer for women in the hunting and shooting industry. Today, 211 00:14:02,960 --> 00:14:06,400 Speaker 1: women are the fastest growing group in the hunting space. 212 00:14:06,880 --> 00:14:12,840 Speaker 1: Fist bumped Kelly. Dry ground lion hunting. We've said it 213 00:14:13,000 --> 00:14:15,760 Speaker 1: over and over, and I plan to devote some time 214 00:14:15,840 --> 00:14:18,160 Speaker 1: to try and to understand what this means, and I 215 00:14:18,200 --> 00:14:22,320 Speaker 1: hope you'll join me. Despite your perceived interest in the topic. 216 00:14:22,560 --> 00:14:26,000 Speaker 1: It's a nuanced and important cog in the wheel of 217 00:14:26,040 --> 00:14:30,520 Speaker 1: North American hunting. I believe that the characteristics that it 218 00:14:30,560 --> 00:14:33,680 Speaker 1: takes to be a darned good dry ground lion hunter 219 00:14:33,920 --> 00:14:37,960 Speaker 1: are the marrow of American ruggedness. I'm not saying it's 220 00:14:38,000 --> 00:14:41,280 Speaker 1: the only thing that carries that, but I'm quite certain 221 00:14:41,560 --> 00:14:45,360 Speaker 1: that it does. Gary Nuclem instilled in me the desire 222 00:14:45,440 --> 00:14:48,000 Speaker 1: to be a well rounded woodsman and to get a 223 00:14:48,040 --> 00:14:51,920 Speaker 1: PhD in woodsmanship. I believe that to be a true 224 00:14:51,960 --> 00:14:56,560 Speaker 1: contosseur of North American hunting. You need to understand something 225 00:14:56,720 --> 00:14:59,520 Speaker 1: about dry ground lion hunting. You don't have to do 226 00:14:59,600 --> 00:15:02,920 Speaker 1: it most probably never will. You don't have to like it. 227 00:15:03,160 --> 00:15:07,080 Speaker 1: You probably wouldn't. But I feel like my insides are 228 00:15:07,160 --> 00:15:10,800 Speaker 1: expanded when I talk to people who dedicated their lives 229 00:15:11,040 --> 00:15:15,520 Speaker 1: to a craft, and being a successful lion hunter requires 230 00:15:15,560 --> 00:15:20,760 Speaker 1: the dedication of a lifetime. Shorty Gorham is one of 231 00:15:20,800 --> 00:15:25,880 Speaker 1: the world's best bullfighters. He's worked for the PBR Professional 232 00:15:25,880 --> 00:15:29,800 Speaker 1: Bull Riders for seventeen years and his dedicated his life 233 00:15:29,840 --> 00:15:33,240 Speaker 1: to his craft. His job is to protect bull riders 234 00:15:33,320 --> 00:15:35,440 Speaker 1: once they've come off of the bull's back and are 235 00:15:35,520 --> 00:15:39,520 Speaker 1: on the ground. They basically run interference, distracting the bull 236 00:15:39,680 --> 00:15:42,200 Speaker 1: while the rider gets away. They used to call these 237 00:15:42,200 --> 00:15:45,600 Speaker 1: guys rodeo clowns. I find that people who are among 238 00:15:45,760 --> 00:15:48,520 Speaker 1: the best at what they do are good at spotting 239 00:15:48,640 --> 00:15:52,960 Speaker 1: others in other fields who are like them. Shorty is 240 00:15:53,000 --> 00:15:57,080 Speaker 1: also a dry ground lion hunter. I wanted to see 241 00:15:57,160 --> 00:16:04,160 Speaker 1: what he had to say about Warner Glenn being from 242 00:16:04,200 --> 00:16:08,520 Speaker 1: the Southwest and and hunting lions on dry ground. If 243 00:16:08,560 --> 00:16:10,760 Speaker 1: you ask around, ask very many questions, you're gonna hear 244 00:16:10,800 --> 00:16:13,600 Speaker 1: Warner's name and so that's that's how I had heard 245 00:16:13,640 --> 00:16:15,480 Speaker 1: of him, just trying to learn as much as I 246 00:16:15,480 --> 00:16:17,960 Speaker 1: could and read as much as I could. And when 247 00:16:18,040 --> 00:16:20,640 Speaker 1: that topic comes up, warners one of the one of 248 00:16:20,640 --> 00:16:22,320 Speaker 1: the big names. You know, he's he's one of the 249 00:16:22,320 --> 00:16:24,960 Speaker 1: best dry ground lion hunters in the in the world. 250 00:16:25,000 --> 00:16:27,600 Speaker 1: And you could say, of all times, you know, they 251 00:16:28,040 --> 00:16:31,640 Speaker 1: all the well known, big time dry ground lion hunters, 252 00:16:31,760 --> 00:16:36,280 Speaker 1: no respect and love Warner lends. So it's just a 253 00:16:36,320 --> 00:16:39,320 Speaker 1: household name, you know. So when I got to go 254 00:16:39,800 --> 00:16:42,240 Speaker 1: to his house, it was it was quite the experience, 255 00:16:42,280 --> 00:16:44,400 Speaker 1: you know, I'll never forget it. I pulled in, I 256 00:16:44,720 --> 00:16:47,560 Speaker 1: had flown there to Arizona from a straight from a 257 00:16:47,600 --> 00:16:50,040 Speaker 1: bull ride and drove a couple of hours to the house, 258 00:16:50,440 --> 00:16:53,400 Speaker 1: pulled in in a rental car, and and Warner comes, well, 259 00:16:53,440 --> 00:16:55,880 Speaker 1: Warner was out feeding his mules, comes over and shakes 260 00:16:55,920 --> 00:16:58,400 Speaker 1: my hand, and he's a very tall man. So I'm 261 00:16:58,400 --> 00:17:01,360 Speaker 1: looking up at him, and and the from that point 262 00:17:01,480 --> 00:17:03,800 Speaker 1: till I felt like I had known Warner all my 263 00:17:03,840 --> 00:17:06,720 Speaker 1: life was you know, ten to fifteen minutes. Maybe it's 264 00:17:06,800 --> 00:17:09,200 Speaker 1: just a just a great guy, just a genuine man. 265 00:17:09,280 --> 00:17:13,480 Speaker 1: And it's interesting to me how there's some people that 266 00:17:13,560 --> 00:17:17,680 Speaker 1: have that quality, and in your experience with him was 267 00:17:17,800 --> 00:17:21,000 Speaker 1: very similar to my first meeting him. What is it 268 00:17:21,040 --> 00:17:23,400 Speaker 1: that makes a person be able to have that kind 269 00:17:23,400 --> 00:17:26,080 Speaker 1: of connection with people? I don't, you know, I don't know. 270 00:17:26,400 --> 00:17:28,560 Speaker 1: I really don't. You know. The thing is, I've met 271 00:17:28,600 --> 00:17:31,080 Speaker 1: a lot of his clients that have hunted with him, 272 00:17:31,200 --> 00:17:34,919 Speaker 1: and Warner's return clientele is just massive. Like I know, 273 00:17:34,960 --> 00:17:37,320 Speaker 1: guys that have hunted with him for twenty years, every 274 00:17:37,359 --> 00:17:39,639 Speaker 1: single year just because they want to go spend time 275 00:17:39,760 --> 00:17:43,600 Speaker 1: with Warrener Glenn. But they just want that connection with Warners, 276 00:17:43,600 --> 00:17:46,160 Speaker 1: so they keep going back year after year after year, 277 00:17:46,240 --> 00:17:49,320 Speaker 1: you know, and there's a real rough and tough lion hunter. 278 00:17:50,000 --> 00:17:52,760 Speaker 1: He he once said. He said, when I when my 279 00:17:52,840 --> 00:17:54,639 Speaker 1: time comes to an end and I and I go 280 00:17:54,760 --> 00:17:57,159 Speaker 1: off to the other side, he said, if if I 281 00:17:57,200 --> 00:17:59,680 Speaker 1: look around and in my second life and I don't 282 00:17:59,720 --> 00:18:01,719 Speaker 1: see Warner Glenn, I'm gonna know I really screwed up. 283 00:18:01,720 --> 00:18:04,159 Speaker 1: Because we all know Oraners going to heaven. That just 284 00:18:04,320 --> 00:18:10,800 Speaker 1: describes Warner. John Blosier has known Mr Warner for twenty 285 00:18:10,800 --> 00:18:14,560 Speaker 1: plus years and as professionally hunted lions on dry ground 286 00:18:14,600 --> 00:18:18,199 Speaker 1: for over thirty by professionally. I mean he worked for 287 00:18:18,240 --> 00:18:22,360 Speaker 1: the state of Oregon managing livestock killing and nuisance lions. 288 00:18:22,760 --> 00:18:26,960 Speaker 1: In eighteen John was called to ply his craft in 289 00:18:27,000 --> 00:18:30,520 Speaker 1: a tragic situation. He and his dogs tracked down the 290 00:18:30,600 --> 00:18:34,040 Speaker 1: first wild mountain lion in modern times in Oregon that 291 00:18:34,280 --> 00:18:38,560 Speaker 1: killed a human wild stuff. But his hunting wasn't just 292 00:18:38,600 --> 00:18:41,560 Speaker 1: a career. He loves what he does and is a 293 00:18:41,600 --> 00:18:44,920 Speaker 1: lifelong student of it. He's one of these guys that's 294 00:18:44,960 --> 00:18:47,919 Speaker 1: done whatever it took to put himself in relationship with 295 00:18:48,000 --> 00:18:50,919 Speaker 1: the best in the world in his field, one of 296 00:18:50,960 --> 00:18:54,919 Speaker 1: which is Warner Glenn. I asked John to define for 297 00:18:55,119 --> 00:19:00,480 Speaker 1: us what dry ground lion hunting is. Hunting lions dry 298 00:19:00,520 --> 00:19:03,600 Speaker 1: ground would be without the aid of snow for cutting 299 00:19:03,600 --> 00:19:06,960 Speaker 1: tracks and tracking conditions. The reason that makes that easier 300 00:19:07,080 --> 00:19:09,320 Speaker 1: is if you have country that's got roads in it 301 00:19:09,600 --> 00:19:12,000 Speaker 1: that you can go and cut a lion track in 302 00:19:12,040 --> 00:19:14,000 Speaker 1: the snow at a you know the age of it 303 00:19:14,040 --> 00:19:16,119 Speaker 1: because you know when it quits snow one and be 304 00:19:16,640 --> 00:19:19,600 Speaker 1: you know the direction it's traveling. So those two things 305 00:19:19,600 --> 00:19:21,800 Speaker 1: are two of the more difficult things in lion hunting. 306 00:19:21,800 --> 00:19:23,560 Speaker 1: And you have both of those taken care for, you 307 00:19:23,840 --> 00:19:26,160 Speaker 1: a lot of the dry ground lion hunting that goes 308 00:19:26,240 --> 00:19:30,720 Speaker 1: on in the United States is in the Southwest United States, Arizona, 309 00:19:30,760 --> 00:19:36,360 Speaker 1: New Mexico, southern Utah, southern Nevada, places like that, And uh, 310 00:19:36,400 --> 00:19:39,399 Speaker 1: I guess one or many reasons that would be harder 311 00:19:39,440 --> 00:19:42,680 Speaker 1: as a when you dry ground lion hunt. Most of 312 00:19:42,680 --> 00:19:45,320 Speaker 1: the time, many of the mountain ranges in the Southwest 313 00:19:45,359 --> 00:19:48,960 Speaker 1: that lions live in are only accessible by horse back 314 00:19:49,119 --> 00:19:51,800 Speaker 1: or afoot, so your dogs have to be freecasted and 315 00:19:51,880 --> 00:19:54,080 Speaker 1: be able to start a lion track on their own. 316 00:19:54,440 --> 00:19:57,399 Speaker 1: Anybody that's hunted with hounds very much, or even dealt 317 00:19:57,400 --> 00:19:59,560 Speaker 1: with dogs very much, would know that it would take 318 00:19:59,560 --> 00:20:01,800 Speaker 1: a little more or worked to be put into your 319 00:20:01,840 --> 00:20:04,080 Speaker 1: dogs to have them where they would only start a 320 00:20:04,119 --> 00:20:06,920 Speaker 1: lion track, because hound dogs, by their very nature, kind 321 00:20:06,920 --> 00:20:09,240 Speaker 1: of like to trail things, and many times there's a 322 00:20:09,240 --> 00:20:12,200 Speaker 1: lot more smells out there than just a lion track. John, 323 00:20:12,240 --> 00:20:15,560 Speaker 1: tell me about Tell me about Warner glenn Um. That's 324 00:20:15,560 --> 00:20:20,720 Speaker 1: a big question. Yeah, So I've known Warner for over 325 00:20:20,760 --> 00:20:24,120 Speaker 1: two decades. I met him in my quest to kind 326 00:20:24,119 --> 00:20:26,080 Speaker 1: of learn how to be a dry ground lion hunter. 327 00:20:26,200 --> 00:20:30,400 Speaker 1: That was what originally sparked Warner and Ice connection and 328 00:20:30,520 --> 00:20:34,679 Speaker 1: has kept that, you know, the Glenser. I consider him family. 329 00:20:34,720 --> 00:20:37,080 Speaker 1: They're very close. There's certainly not a lot of people 330 00:20:37,160 --> 00:20:39,760 Speaker 1: like that. You know, Warner as a cowboy and a 331 00:20:39,800 --> 00:20:43,240 Speaker 1: lion hunter and a family person. I don't really think. 332 00:20:43,240 --> 00:20:45,680 Speaker 1: I mean, I've spent quite a little time around him 333 00:20:45,680 --> 00:20:48,920 Speaker 1: and got the opportunity to hunt with him numerous numerous days, 334 00:20:48,960 --> 00:20:51,280 Speaker 1: and uh, you know, there's just not a lot of 335 00:20:51,280 --> 00:20:55,359 Speaker 1: people like that that have dedicated their whole life to something. 336 00:20:55,440 --> 00:20:58,399 Speaker 1: And I might be a little bit off, but I 337 00:20:58,440 --> 00:21:02,600 Speaker 1: think I believe the time Warner started lion and he 338 00:21:02,640 --> 00:21:05,600 Speaker 1: was around seven or eight years old, and he's now 339 00:21:05,720 --> 00:21:08,639 Speaker 1: closing in on eighty five, and that's a that's a 340 00:21:08,680 --> 00:21:11,120 Speaker 1: pretty long career as a dirt lion hunter, and there's 341 00:21:11,200 --> 00:21:13,800 Speaker 1: not been any gaps to speak of, and that he 342 00:21:13,880 --> 00:21:15,879 Speaker 1: was in the military for a very short time, but 343 00:21:16,320 --> 00:21:19,040 Speaker 1: he's pretty well spent his whole life in those mountains, 344 00:21:19,080 --> 00:21:22,480 Speaker 1: you know, in the desert Southwest mountains, chasing those things. 345 00:21:22,840 --> 00:21:25,080 Speaker 1: You've had it with a lot of people. What what 346 00:21:25,280 --> 00:21:29,000 Speaker 1: stands out to you? What have you learned from Warner? Oh? Boy, 347 00:21:29,400 --> 00:21:31,800 Speaker 1: that would be Uh, I've learned a lot from Warner. 348 00:21:32,359 --> 00:21:35,159 Speaker 1: I think Clay maybe one of the big things about 349 00:21:35,240 --> 00:21:39,199 Speaker 1: that is that when you go with someone that is 350 00:21:39,840 --> 00:21:42,440 Speaker 1: truly at the top of their of their game, which 351 00:21:42,480 --> 00:21:44,159 Speaker 1: it's not hard to tell when you go do that 352 00:21:44,200 --> 00:21:46,359 Speaker 1: if you you know, you have a little background in it, 353 00:21:46,359 --> 00:21:49,840 Speaker 1: and stuff is uh, you know, Warners, Warners just one 354 00:21:49,880 --> 00:21:52,400 Speaker 1: of those rare people that you know, dry ground lion 355 00:21:52,480 --> 00:21:54,000 Speaker 1: hunt doing the stuff that we do is a lot 356 00:21:54,080 --> 00:21:57,040 Speaker 1: of work. And in Warner it he still goes out 357 00:21:57,080 --> 00:22:00,119 Speaker 1: that like he's hunting snakes, and that's pretty impressive the 358 00:22:00,119 --> 00:22:02,639 Speaker 1: amount of work it is and stuff that is just 359 00:22:02,760 --> 00:22:07,600 Speaker 1: an extremely good track reader and is just really good 360 00:22:07,600 --> 00:22:10,120 Speaker 1: at reading his dogs and telling you exactly what they're 361 00:22:10,200 --> 00:22:13,000 Speaker 1: up to. And he's a cowboy deluxe, I mean, to 362 00:22:13,080 --> 00:22:15,080 Speaker 1: travel in bad country. I mean, you just don't get 363 00:22:15,119 --> 00:22:17,639 Speaker 1: any better than that. And he just uh, but you know, 364 00:22:17,760 --> 00:22:21,720 Speaker 1: Warner just all of the things that embody somebody to 365 00:22:21,760 --> 00:22:24,399 Speaker 1: be a lion hunter. You know, he's tall and athletic 366 00:22:24,440 --> 00:22:27,480 Speaker 1: and tough and and can get around and and just 367 00:22:27,920 --> 00:22:30,359 Speaker 1: all the things that it takes to be a really 368 00:22:30,359 --> 00:22:33,320 Speaker 1: good lion hunter, a really good dirt lion hunter. Warner 369 00:22:33,400 --> 00:22:41,160 Speaker 1: is all of those. Everyone there are two overarching factors 370 00:22:41,160 --> 00:22:44,399 Speaker 1: that make this hunting difficult. Number One, it takes place 371 00:22:44,400 --> 00:22:48,920 Speaker 1: in rugged regions without many roads. Lions can travel incredible 372 00:22:48,960 --> 00:22:52,120 Speaker 1: distances on a daily basis, so it's got to be 373 00:22:52,160 --> 00:22:55,200 Speaker 1: an extremely mobile hunt. A hunter has to become an 374 00:22:55,240 --> 00:23:00,760 Speaker 1: expert at wilderness travel, and it's typically done with Equin's. Secondly, 375 00:23:01,000 --> 00:23:05,200 Speaker 1: the arid nature of the land makes for difficult conditions 376 00:23:05,240 --> 00:23:09,440 Speaker 1: for holding scent. It's really that simple. Dry ground lion 377 00:23:09,520 --> 00:23:14,040 Speaker 1: hunting is all about scent. Scent on dirt doesn't hold 378 00:23:14,080 --> 00:23:16,639 Speaker 1: well and it makes for some of the most difficult 379 00:23:16,680 --> 00:23:20,639 Speaker 1: trailing conditions for dogs. A good dry ground lion dog 380 00:23:20,840 --> 00:23:23,480 Speaker 1: is a phenomenal creature. It may just look like a 381 00:23:23,520 --> 00:23:27,080 Speaker 1: scraggly old hound to somebody, but in my opinion, they're 382 00:23:27,119 --> 00:23:30,960 Speaker 1: the Olympians of the hound world. In humans are ola 383 00:23:30,960 --> 00:23:34,280 Speaker 1: factory strength is minimal compared to many other animals, so 384 00:23:34,320 --> 00:23:37,240 Speaker 1: it's hard for us to understand how a dog interprets 385 00:23:37,240 --> 00:23:39,879 Speaker 1: the world. I think we've got to nerd out for 386 00:23:39,920 --> 00:23:43,159 Speaker 1: a minute to really understand the currency of the hound, 387 00:23:43,400 --> 00:23:46,760 Speaker 1: which is sent I asked my buddy Chris pal for 388 00:23:46,880 --> 00:23:51,280 Speaker 1: his insight. He's a lifelong houndsman, a former law enforcement 389 00:23:51,359 --> 00:23:55,320 Speaker 1: canine handler and the host of the Houndsman XP podcast. 390 00:23:55,800 --> 00:24:01,520 Speaker 1: Here's what he had to say about scent. So sin 391 00:24:01,760 --> 00:24:04,960 Speaker 1: is one of the things that is key for Houndsman, 392 00:24:05,119 --> 00:24:08,479 Speaker 1: but it's also one of the most misunderstood parts of 393 00:24:08,680 --> 00:24:11,280 Speaker 1: how our hounds work and sent You know, it's a 394 00:24:11,280 --> 00:24:15,080 Speaker 1: living thing. When an animal walks through the landscape, it 395 00:24:15,200 --> 00:24:18,520 Speaker 1: is shedding cells at the rate of about fifty thousand 396 00:24:18,680 --> 00:24:21,480 Speaker 1: per minute. And as those cells are shed it's coming 397 00:24:21,480 --> 00:24:24,879 Speaker 1: out through being there exhaling, and they're losing it that way. 398 00:24:25,359 --> 00:24:29,120 Speaker 1: When they brush up against plants and vegetation, they're shedding 399 00:24:29,160 --> 00:24:31,680 Speaker 1: cells in that instance too. And when you look at 400 00:24:31,720 --> 00:24:34,640 Speaker 1: the composition of a cell, it's eighty percent water. As 401 00:24:34,640 --> 00:24:37,400 Speaker 1: this animal moves through its environment and it's shedding these 402 00:24:37,400 --> 00:24:41,720 Speaker 1: cells either through exhaling or it's called scurf. The it's 403 00:24:41,760 --> 00:24:44,440 Speaker 1: actually got a scientific name. When those cells are shed 404 00:24:44,480 --> 00:24:47,240 Speaker 1: it's called scurf. It comes off of this this animal, 405 00:24:47,320 --> 00:24:50,080 Speaker 1: this living being, and it's it's falling onto the landscape. 406 00:24:50,240 --> 00:24:53,600 Speaker 1: It acts differently in the different environments that it falls in. 407 00:24:53,680 --> 00:24:57,400 Speaker 1: So when it falls in moist environment, it doesn't dehydrate 408 00:24:57,440 --> 00:25:01,199 Speaker 1: as quickly. So therefore the scent exists for a longer 409 00:25:01,280 --> 00:25:06,320 Speaker 1: period of time, and when it falls into dry, arid conditions, 410 00:25:06,359 --> 00:25:10,520 Speaker 1: just simple evaporation causes that scent to not be able 411 00:25:10,560 --> 00:25:13,159 Speaker 1: to exist for his long. Now, in the case of 412 00:25:13,280 --> 00:25:17,440 Speaker 1: dry ground, you know rock, those sort of things, it's 413 00:25:17,560 --> 00:25:19,560 Speaker 1: it's a deal where if the rock's got a crack 414 00:25:19,640 --> 00:25:22,640 Speaker 1: in it, the least bit of shade will actually shelter 415 00:25:22,840 --> 00:25:25,919 Speaker 1: that thing from direct sunlight and arid conditions just for 416 00:25:25,920 --> 00:25:28,320 Speaker 1: for a little bit, and that enables a hound to 417 00:25:28,359 --> 00:25:33,040 Speaker 1: be able to smell that scent that's deposited there. I 418 00:25:33,119 --> 00:25:36,800 Speaker 1: asked Chris about another component of scent and trailing that 419 00:25:36,880 --> 00:25:40,520 Speaker 1: doesn't involve the actual scent of the animal, but rather 420 00:25:40,760 --> 00:25:45,400 Speaker 1: ground disturbance. So when an animal walks through an environment 421 00:25:45,440 --> 00:25:49,320 Speaker 1: or across the landscape, he is actually disturbing natural bacteria 422 00:25:49,400 --> 00:25:52,919 Speaker 1: is in the soil, and he uses the combination of 423 00:25:53,000 --> 00:25:57,040 Speaker 1: animal scent the bacteria. Fresh earth has a distinct smell 424 00:25:57,119 --> 00:26:00,200 Speaker 1: that we can smell as people, a dog's nasal pluming, 425 00:26:00,600 --> 00:26:02,640 Speaker 1: and the role factory is able to pick that up 426 00:26:02,760 --> 00:26:07,399 Speaker 1: at I mean, compounded seventy five times greater than what 427 00:26:07,480 --> 00:26:10,480 Speaker 1: we can. So as an animal walks across this landscape, 428 00:26:10,520 --> 00:26:14,000 Speaker 1: and he's he's disturbing leaves, and he's kicking over rocks 429 00:26:14,040 --> 00:26:17,520 Speaker 1: and and different things like that. It's activating the natural 430 00:26:17,600 --> 00:26:21,160 Speaker 1: world right there and the microscopic organisms and that. Then 431 00:26:21,200 --> 00:26:24,760 Speaker 1: the animal scent falls in that same scent picture, and 432 00:26:24,840 --> 00:26:28,199 Speaker 1: now he is he is able to develop what we 433 00:26:28,240 --> 00:26:31,199 Speaker 1: call a scent picture, and all that stuff is mixed together, 434 00:26:31,280 --> 00:26:34,640 Speaker 1: it's all brought together. What you're telling me is that 435 00:26:34,840 --> 00:26:38,639 Speaker 1: a dog is not just trailing the scurf of a lion. 436 00:26:38,880 --> 00:26:44,520 Speaker 1: He's trailing ground disturbance. He's trailing ground disturbance of where 437 00:26:44,520 --> 00:26:47,679 Speaker 1: that lion's foot touched the dirt and made the ground 438 00:26:47,680 --> 00:26:50,520 Speaker 1: smell different. It's like if you tell the soil it 439 00:26:50,600 --> 00:26:54,600 Speaker 1: has a it has a scent. I heard a good 440 00:26:54,640 --> 00:26:58,280 Speaker 1: analogy once comparing the dog's nose to humans. It went 441 00:26:58,400 --> 00:27:01,080 Speaker 1: like this. A human may walk into a house and 442 00:27:01,119 --> 00:27:04,960 Speaker 1: smell lasagna cooking in an oven and think, man, that 443 00:27:05,040 --> 00:27:08,879 Speaker 1: lasagna smells great. A dog walks into the house and 444 00:27:09,040 --> 00:27:14,000 Speaker 1: he smells layers. He smells the Italian pork sausage starting 445 00:27:14,000 --> 00:27:19,479 Speaker 1: to crisp, roasted tomato, sauce, fresh mazzarella, cheese, basil, ricotta cheese. 446 00:27:19,840 --> 00:27:27,240 Speaker 1: He smells the individual components with extreme precision. If you 447 00:27:27,280 --> 00:27:30,160 Speaker 1: haven't listened to episode twenty two, you're missing a bunch 448 00:27:30,240 --> 00:27:34,000 Speaker 1: of background information that will give context to Warner's life. 449 00:27:34,520 --> 00:27:37,560 Speaker 1: I'm assuming you know how a series works, and ultimately 450 00:27:37,760 --> 00:27:40,919 Speaker 1: we're in pursuit of getting a glimpse into his world. 451 00:27:41,560 --> 00:27:49,720 Speaker 1: I wanted to ask Mr Warner specifically about his hunting. Well, 452 00:27:49,760 --> 00:27:52,919 Speaker 1: I tell you it's it's kind of a tough ole life. 453 00:27:54,080 --> 00:27:57,840 Speaker 1: To be a drunk round, you gotta really like it. 454 00:27:58,440 --> 00:28:02,400 Speaker 1: I like being out in the country course and and 455 00:28:02,440 --> 00:28:05,680 Speaker 1: watching those dogs work good. We're riding to get mule 456 00:28:05,720 --> 00:28:08,919 Speaker 1: in that rough country. And of course we're working cattle 457 00:28:09,400 --> 00:28:11,399 Speaker 1: a lot of there's probably eight months out of the 458 00:28:11,520 --> 00:28:14,800 Speaker 1: year we're working cattle, but we have those dogs year around, 459 00:28:15,160 --> 00:28:17,399 Speaker 1: and if the line comes in and kills a calf 460 00:28:17,600 --> 00:28:20,199 Speaker 1: or cold or whatever, then we go and try to 461 00:28:20,240 --> 00:28:23,720 Speaker 1: catch that line. But usually the line h we do, 462 00:28:24,359 --> 00:28:27,480 Speaker 1: which is mostly on dry ground and that and it's 463 00:28:27,520 --> 00:28:30,600 Speaker 1: called that because we very seldom get snow in this country. 464 00:28:30,640 --> 00:28:32,880 Speaker 1: We just wanted a while in the wintertime we'll get 465 00:28:32,880 --> 00:28:36,720 Speaker 1: a snow, but we do that about four months out 466 00:28:36,720 --> 00:28:38,680 Speaker 1: of the year. We would take clients and then the 467 00:28:38,960 --> 00:28:40,680 Speaker 1: rest of the time, and it's just when we had 468 00:28:40,680 --> 00:28:43,880 Speaker 1: a fresh killed, you know, neighbors wanted to catch one 469 00:28:44,000 --> 00:28:48,280 Speaker 1: or something like that. But that dry ground lines are 470 00:28:48,480 --> 00:28:51,640 Speaker 1: different because you do a lot of riding and those dogs. 471 00:28:52,240 --> 00:28:54,720 Speaker 1: Before you ever pick up a track, you you got 472 00:28:54,720 --> 00:28:57,480 Speaker 1: to find a trail and then you gotta find which 473 00:28:57,520 --> 00:29:00,800 Speaker 1: way it's going. And in snow it's pretty easy. You 474 00:29:00,840 --> 00:29:03,720 Speaker 1: didn't see the tracks. But in this country out of here, 475 00:29:04,640 --> 00:29:08,080 Speaker 1: just play grass or dirt, pine needles or whatever you're in. 476 00:29:08,800 --> 00:29:12,240 Speaker 1: Usually that track is pretty hard to find perspective, a 477 00:29:12,320 --> 00:29:17,640 Speaker 1: pack of hounds already trenilant, muffing that tracks out. So 478 00:29:18,000 --> 00:29:20,320 Speaker 1: you just gotta ride and see you find that track. 479 00:29:20,440 --> 00:29:23,000 Speaker 1: If you're going the wrong way on it, you gotta 480 00:29:23,040 --> 00:29:24,800 Speaker 1: get them turned around, and they had and right, or 481 00:29:24,840 --> 00:29:26,960 Speaker 1: you're gonna see a lot of country that old line. 482 00:29:27,120 --> 00:29:29,280 Speaker 1: Let's left. You thought they were gonna be teching to 483 00:29:29,680 --> 00:29:32,400 Speaker 1: But if you're going the right way, you're in good shape. 484 00:29:32,440 --> 00:29:35,200 Speaker 1: Then you just go on and concentrate on them. And 485 00:29:35,240 --> 00:29:37,120 Speaker 1: I tell you you've got to help your dogs. In 486 00:29:37,160 --> 00:29:40,760 Speaker 1: this country, it's a ruffle, rugged, rim rock country, and 487 00:29:40,800 --> 00:29:44,000 Speaker 1: there's a lot of country looks like that. Line goes 488 00:29:44,080 --> 00:29:47,960 Speaker 1: through that. The dogs can't go there bluffier, bigger rims. 489 00:29:48,000 --> 00:29:50,640 Speaker 1: You got to take them around and yeah, hit it 490 00:29:50,880 --> 00:29:52,800 Speaker 1: on the top of that type of thing. So there's 491 00:29:52,840 --> 00:29:55,720 Speaker 1: quite a bit of footwork that goes in. Somebody's got 492 00:29:55,720 --> 00:29:58,200 Speaker 1: to be with those dogs the foot to help them. Now, 493 00:29:58,840 --> 00:30:01,920 Speaker 1: you were known and there all known, even in your 494 00:30:02,280 --> 00:30:04,800 Speaker 1: latter years here, of being able to follow these dogs 495 00:30:04,800 --> 00:30:09,239 Speaker 1: on foot. Yeah, I don't do that. I can't do 496 00:30:09,280 --> 00:30:11,960 Speaker 1: that anymore. I wish I could. And that's one thing 497 00:30:12,080 --> 00:30:16,320 Speaker 1: I really enjoyed about with following those dollars foot y. Yeah, 498 00:30:16,360 --> 00:30:18,560 Speaker 1: I could do it. I was lucky I was physically 499 00:30:18,560 --> 00:30:22,240 Speaker 1: able to do that for several years. And and uh, 500 00:30:22,280 --> 00:30:25,160 Speaker 1: it's it's a wonderful way to see what dogs are 501 00:30:25,200 --> 00:30:29,200 Speaker 1: doing what. It doesn't take very long to learn who's 502 00:30:29,240 --> 00:30:32,840 Speaker 1: the cheerleaders in the bucket. Yeah. Actually, and you were 503 00:30:32,880 --> 00:30:35,520 Speaker 1: doing this too before there were GPS collars and you 504 00:30:35,560 --> 00:30:38,680 Speaker 1: were able to track. You had to somebody had to 505 00:30:38,720 --> 00:30:40,719 Speaker 1: stay with them to hear the dogs. Yeah, I just 506 00:30:40,760 --> 00:30:45,160 Speaker 1: stay within hearing if you could. And I couldn't stay 507 00:30:45,280 --> 00:30:47,440 Speaker 1: right with them on on the good I could if 508 00:30:47,480 --> 00:30:49,800 Speaker 1: they were just coltrained and not just be right with him. 509 00:30:49,800 --> 00:30:53,720 Speaker 1: But what take out that land movement got a joke 510 00:30:53,840 --> 00:30:57,080 Speaker 1: track and what we call they go past? I could, 511 00:30:57,400 --> 00:31:00,400 Speaker 1: but I would I would take the time climbing about. 512 00:31:00,600 --> 00:31:03,840 Speaker 1: But on the other when we started down, I could 513 00:31:04,840 --> 00:31:10,760 Speaker 1: really smoke it. But I had to be of course 514 00:31:10,800 --> 00:31:14,400 Speaker 1: in those days. I can hear it good I hear. 515 00:31:14,440 --> 00:31:18,640 Speaker 1: And now Kelly has been pounding around with Mr Warner 516 00:31:18,680 --> 00:31:21,840 Speaker 1: since she was a little girl. Here's what she had 517 00:31:21,880 --> 00:31:26,480 Speaker 1: to say about dry ground lion hunting. So I love 518 00:31:26,800 --> 00:31:32,200 Speaker 1: dry ground lion. There's every challenge there. There's you know, 519 00:31:32,280 --> 00:31:34,800 Speaker 1: you have your hounds and you hit a canyon going 520 00:31:35,080 --> 00:31:37,080 Speaker 1: at an angle, you're either going up or down it. 521 00:31:37,280 --> 00:31:39,240 Speaker 1: And if there's a track there, they're gonna hit it 522 00:31:39,320 --> 00:31:42,200 Speaker 1: and they're gonna go down. If it's if they're pointing down, 523 00:31:42,240 --> 00:31:45,040 Speaker 1: they're gonna go down. The hound can't tell what direction 524 00:31:45,080 --> 00:31:49,040 Speaker 1: the line's going by sight. So the first challenges we 525 00:31:49,120 --> 00:31:51,400 Speaker 1: get in there and we find that track and then 526 00:31:51,480 --> 00:31:54,680 Speaker 1: turning them around. And then there's in this country we 527 00:31:54,720 --> 00:31:57,480 Speaker 1: have so many conditions and we always say we have 528 00:31:57,560 --> 00:32:01,400 Speaker 1: more excuses than team Ropers. There's there we're always in 529 00:32:01,440 --> 00:32:04,680 Speaker 1: a drought. It's how much moisture content is in the soil, 530 00:32:05,040 --> 00:32:08,040 Speaker 1: the wind, the heat. Were hunt in a lot of 531 00:32:08,440 --> 00:32:12,040 Speaker 1: warm temperatures and evaporation, and this is really bad for 532 00:32:12,080 --> 00:32:17,920 Speaker 1: scent conditions. That's right. People don't even realize the menuscule 533 00:32:18,080 --> 00:32:21,080 Speaker 1: moisture that's still in the soil even if you haven't 534 00:32:21,120 --> 00:32:23,320 Speaker 1: had rain, and we're used to not having rain. When 535 00:32:23,320 --> 00:32:25,960 Speaker 1: you look at a track, a lion track on a 536 00:32:26,040 --> 00:32:29,840 Speaker 1: cow trail, it'll still have if it's fresh, like an 537 00:32:29,880 --> 00:32:32,960 Speaker 1: hour old, it will still have color in it. So 538 00:32:33,000 --> 00:32:35,719 Speaker 1: the track is still a different color than the soil. 539 00:32:35,960 --> 00:32:38,240 Speaker 1: So the soils faded out and the track will have 540 00:32:38,400 --> 00:32:42,680 Speaker 1: some color. There's so many factors and it's such a challenge. 541 00:32:43,160 --> 00:32:46,320 Speaker 1: We help our dogs. My grandpa and my dad both 542 00:32:46,480 --> 00:32:49,640 Speaker 1: taught me. You get off your mule and you help 543 00:32:49,680 --> 00:32:53,640 Speaker 1: them find the track. And that's and that's pretty For 544 00:32:53,880 --> 00:32:58,240 Speaker 1: other types of hunting, that's not that's not necessarily normal. 545 00:32:58,560 --> 00:33:01,880 Speaker 1: So there's more human involvement with the actual dogs on 546 00:33:01,920 --> 00:33:05,080 Speaker 1: the track. These dogs have to be that you have 547 00:33:05,160 --> 00:33:07,360 Speaker 1: to be able to call them to you. You have 548 00:33:07,400 --> 00:33:10,360 Speaker 1: to I mean that there's some another layer of complexity 549 00:33:10,360 --> 00:33:13,080 Speaker 1: with training these dogs. So in every pack, so we 550 00:33:13,120 --> 00:33:16,040 Speaker 1: only take five or six in a pack. In every pack, 551 00:33:16,120 --> 00:33:19,719 Speaker 1: you'll have your slower moving dogs, you'll have your strike dogs, 552 00:33:20,000 --> 00:33:22,520 Speaker 1: and then you'll have a dog that will You can 553 00:33:22,600 --> 00:33:26,080 Speaker 1: watch them. Dad has a lot of silent dogs. They 554 00:33:26,080 --> 00:33:29,680 Speaker 1: don't do much barking, but you can watch their body language. 555 00:33:29,760 --> 00:33:31,920 Speaker 1: And you'll see a dog out there a hundred yards 556 00:33:32,080 --> 00:33:34,239 Speaker 1: and it's a good dog. You know him. You know 557 00:33:34,320 --> 00:33:37,320 Speaker 1: he isn't a deer chaser, and you'll see him just 558 00:33:37,400 --> 00:33:40,040 Speaker 1: working up and you can tell he's just working up 559 00:33:40,080 --> 00:33:42,560 Speaker 1: in the body language in his tail away. It's wagon. 560 00:33:43,040 --> 00:33:45,520 Speaker 1: We scoop up our dogs and take them to him. 561 00:33:45,680 --> 00:33:47,920 Speaker 1: A lot of times one of us will be looking 562 00:33:47,960 --> 00:33:51,040 Speaker 1: at the track and helping the dogs along, and it's 563 00:33:51,080 --> 00:33:54,680 Speaker 1: by watching the body language of And that's a challenge 564 00:33:55,200 --> 00:33:59,600 Speaker 1: because there's rocks everywhere, and in this country, sent whole 565 00:34:00,040 --> 00:34:03,680 Speaker 1: longer on rock than it does in the dirt it holds. 566 00:34:03,920 --> 00:34:08,480 Speaker 1: You'll see an older dog going along smelling the underside 567 00:34:08,880 --> 00:34:13,160 Speaker 1: of leaves in a thicket, and that's where that lion's 568 00:34:13,200 --> 00:34:16,600 Speaker 1: body and you can and they'll they'll hold, they'll stop. 569 00:34:16,680 --> 00:34:20,520 Speaker 1: There's a dog named catch It. She'll stop. Her whole 570 00:34:20,520 --> 00:34:23,840 Speaker 1: body will be frozen in time, and she'll be smelling 571 00:34:23,880 --> 00:34:29,520 Speaker 1: and you know she's getting she's she that yeah, yeah, 572 00:34:29,640 --> 00:34:32,000 Speaker 1: and then she'll trop forward and do it again. And 573 00:34:32,040 --> 00:34:34,719 Speaker 1: I'll tell Dad if catch it, smelled it. And so 574 00:34:34,800 --> 00:34:37,520 Speaker 1: we go to her with those other dogs, the slower dogs, 575 00:34:37,719 --> 00:34:39,840 Speaker 1: because if you don't do that in this country, you 576 00:34:39,960 --> 00:34:43,040 Speaker 1: probably won't get the lion jump how long of a 577 00:34:43,120 --> 00:34:45,120 Speaker 1: track Let's say, let's say it's just an average day 578 00:34:45,160 --> 00:34:47,040 Speaker 1: of lion hunting and you find a track early in 579 00:34:47,080 --> 00:34:49,800 Speaker 1: the morning. We trailed a lion one day, thirty six 580 00:34:49,880 --> 00:34:53,000 Speaker 1: miles and we jumped him at nine o'clock that night 581 00:34:53,400 --> 00:34:55,839 Speaker 1: and pulled him off because they were all give out. 582 00:34:56,040 --> 00:34:59,200 Speaker 1: I mean it was we knew he was jumped because 583 00:34:59,719 --> 00:35:03,560 Speaker 1: Eve and though those dogs were exhausted, their body language 584 00:35:03,600 --> 00:35:07,800 Speaker 1: and their attitudes had a second wind. But we pulled 585 00:35:07,840 --> 00:35:10,560 Speaker 1: them off because we had gotten We were eighteen miles 586 00:35:10,600 --> 00:35:14,239 Speaker 1: from the truck. We we lead a pack mule with 587 00:35:14,400 --> 00:35:18,919 Speaker 1: water almost every single day unless we've had a big rain. 588 00:35:19,560 --> 00:35:23,319 Speaker 1: Water for the dogs and well but ours. You know, 589 00:35:23,520 --> 00:35:27,240 Speaker 1: normally we can all pack our own water. But those dogs, 590 00:35:27,760 --> 00:35:32,760 Speaker 1: especially in the Bighorn Sheep area, it's a very dry, rough, rocky, hot, 591 00:35:33,000 --> 00:35:39,120 Speaker 1: sunbeaten region. When they start trailing. Dehydration is what slows 592 00:35:39,160 --> 00:35:43,000 Speaker 1: them down. First. A typical week of a lion hunting 593 00:35:43,239 --> 00:35:46,319 Speaker 1: dry ground lion hunting here, would you catch a lion? 594 00:35:46,560 --> 00:35:49,440 Speaker 1: When we were guiding all winter, we would average a 595 00:35:49,480 --> 00:35:53,040 Speaker 1: lion every four days. Yeah, that's that's really good. Yeah 596 00:35:53,080 --> 00:35:56,680 Speaker 1: that man. Sometimes you caught one day one on a hunt, 597 00:35:56,800 --> 00:35:58,920 Speaker 1: and then the next time you might have cut it 598 00:35:59,000 --> 00:36:01,600 Speaker 1: on Dave sit x or whatever. It was kind of 599 00:36:01,640 --> 00:36:06,080 Speaker 1: an average we booked at hunt, and that's because of 600 00:36:06,120 --> 00:36:09,279 Speaker 1: the conditions. You know, you just don't know what your 601 00:36:09,320 --> 00:36:14,240 Speaker 1: conditions are going to be. Freezing thine heat when extreme cold. 602 00:36:14,400 --> 00:36:17,600 Speaker 1: We've had some cold temperatures down here and no snow. 603 00:36:31,680 --> 00:36:34,560 Speaker 1: Hunting with dogs is one of the most primitive styles 604 00:36:34,560 --> 00:36:38,200 Speaker 1: of hunting in terms of deep human history. It's primitive 605 00:36:38,280 --> 00:36:43,560 Speaker 1: because our connection with canines is undeniably ancient. Long before 606 00:36:43,640 --> 00:36:47,440 Speaker 1: the modern, politically correct trends began to regulate how humans 607 00:36:47,480 --> 00:36:50,880 Speaker 1: think about and utilize animals, men and dogs were getting 608 00:36:50,880 --> 00:36:54,960 Speaker 1: along just fine. The human dog relationship is truly unique 609 00:36:54,960 --> 00:36:58,560 Speaker 1: in the animal kingdom, and many attribute our success as 610 00:36:58,600 --> 00:37:03,759 Speaker 1: a species to that relationship. Dad, while I'm on my soapbox, 611 00:37:03,880 --> 00:37:07,000 Speaker 1: I want to share something with you. I believe that 612 00:37:07,120 --> 00:37:10,680 Speaker 1: the opposition to the dog thing is much deeper and 613 00:37:10,800 --> 00:37:13,960 Speaker 1: significant than it seems on the surface. I believe that 614 00:37:14,040 --> 00:37:17,719 Speaker 1: hunting with dogs inside the boundaries of science based wildlife 615 00:37:17,719 --> 00:37:21,760 Speaker 1: management is an integral part of the expression of being human. 616 00:37:22,040 --> 00:37:25,560 Speaker 1: To some people, it seems like our society is very 617 00:37:25,600 --> 00:37:30,160 Speaker 1: interested in preserving people's rights to express their humanity inside 618 00:37:30,160 --> 00:37:32,600 Speaker 1: of their culture and in their way, which is a 619 00:37:32,680 --> 00:37:35,960 Speaker 1: good thing. I believe that by changing the rules on 620 00:37:36,080 --> 00:37:39,360 Speaker 1: us about dogs and saying it's not okay anymore to 621 00:37:39,560 --> 00:37:42,759 Speaker 1: use them inside of hunting is to redefine part of 622 00:37:42,760 --> 00:37:46,919 Speaker 1: our humanity. Hound hunting certainly isn't for everybody, and yes, 623 00:37:46,960 --> 00:37:49,960 Speaker 1: there are some rugged parts of it that many people 624 00:37:50,080 --> 00:37:53,399 Speaker 1: aren't used to, but we're not asking them to participate. 625 00:37:53,840 --> 00:37:57,120 Speaker 1: If my conscience doesn't condemn me, and it's inside the 626 00:37:57,160 --> 00:37:59,960 Speaker 1: boundaries of the law, and the activity that I'm particip 627 00:38:00,080 --> 00:38:04,880 Speaker 1: painting in actually helps wild animals and preserves wild places, 628 00:38:05,400 --> 00:38:08,040 Speaker 1: don't try to take it away from me because it 629 00:38:08,160 --> 00:38:12,800 Speaker 1: condemns your conscience. That's the only thing I'm asking people 630 00:38:12,880 --> 00:38:16,080 Speaker 1: to consider. Man, here we go, I gotta say it. 631 00:38:16,120 --> 00:38:19,040 Speaker 1: I'm sorry, guys, and for the odd hunter that says 632 00:38:19,080 --> 00:38:22,919 Speaker 1: that hunting with hounds isn't fair. Chase Man, I've got 633 00:38:22,960 --> 00:38:25,680 Speaker 1: a few questions for you. What are your thoughts on 634 00:38:25,719 --> 00:38:29,920 Speaker 1: the use of optics that give a person amplified supernatural vision? 635 00:38:30,520 --> 00:38:34,480 Speaker 1: What about range finders? What about cellular trail cameras, supplemental feeding, 636 00:38:34,560 --> 00:38:38,320 Speaker 1: food plots for white tails, digital mapping programs on your phone. 637 00:38:39,040 --> 00:38:42,400 Speaker 1: I'm not suggesting that these things aren't ethical or fair, Chase, 638 00:38:42,520 --> 00:38:46,279 Speaker 1: not at all. I'm just asking us all to explore 639 00:38:46,520 --> 00:38:50,040 Speaker 1: a broader way of thinking. Please hear my heart inside 640 00:38:50,080 --> 00:38:53,719 Speaker 1: of this. My intent is not that this conversation would 641 00:38:53,800 --> 00:38:56,399 Speaker 1: divide us, but it would actually rather unite us as 642 00:38:56,480 --> 00:38:59,440 Speaker 1: hunters and allow us to see through the eyes of 643 00:38:59,480 --> 00:39:03,040 Speaker 1: our brothers and sisters that live life differently and do 644 00:39:03,280 --> 00:39:07,880 Speaker 1: things different than us. I said all that to say 645 00:39:08,120 --> 00:39:10,200 Speaker 1: it was a long way to get here. I wanted 646 00:39:10,239 --> 00:39:13,920 Speaker 1: to ask Mr Warner about his dogs. If you're a 647 00:39:13,920 --> 00:39:16,960 Speaker 1: hound or dog person, you'll enjoy the nerd out. But 648 00:39:17,000 --> 00:39:21,320 Speaker 1: if you're not, you're being brought into an intimate conversation. 649 00:39:21,560 --> 00:39:26,480 Speaker 1: If you'll listen, But I tell you now, I have 650 00:39:27,160 --> 00:39:31,240 Speaker 1: mostly tree and walkers, and uh, I'm not say they're better. 651 00:39:31,680 --> 00:39:34,919 Speaker 1: I don't think they're better cold trailers or striped dogs 652 00:39:35,080 --> 00:39:38,440 Speaker 1: or even tree dogs. But they're ferre at all of that. 653 00:39:39,160 --> 00:39:43,080 Speaker 1: And they're they're really good catch dogs. They're pushers, will 654 00:39:43,120 --> 00:39:46,200 Speaker 1: take get a quarry and joke and running both. They 655 00:39:46,480 --> 00:39:49,000 Speaker 1: they're fast on the track. They're fast on the track. 656 00:39:49,440 --> 00:39:52,760 Speaker 1: Then I'll tell you they're not really aggressive. Those hands. 657 00:39:52,960 --> 00:39:56,200 Speaker 1: They may something, but they kind of keep this. They 658 00:39:56,239 --> 00:40:00,160 Speaker 1: stay back. Yeah, even on the line. That helps. He 659 00:40:00,200 --> 00:40:03,640 Speaker 1: thinks the most important characteristics of a dry ground line 660 00:40:03,680 --> 00:40:06,480 Speaker 1: dog for the way that you hunt the doors, good feet, 661 00:40:06,920 --> 00:40:10,759 Speaker 1: and to have that instinct to run cats. All of 662 00:40:10,800 --> 00:40:14,920 Speaker 1: them don't like to run cats. But but I'll tell you, uh, 663 00:40:15,080 --> 00:40:18,400 Speaker 1: they don't necessarily have to be the fastest dog in 664 00:40:18,480 --> 00:40:21,080 Speaker 1: the block, but they've got to be able to keep 665 00:40:21,120 --> 00:40:23,960 Speaker 1: that track. Movie. Do you have a favorite hound you've 666 00:40:24,000 --> 00:40:27,040 Speaker 1: ever had that's kind of like that new deal you 667 00:40:27,080 --> 00:40:29,839 Speaker 1: asked me about a minute ago. I wouldn't say this 668 00:40:29,920 --> 00:40:33,520 Speaker 1: in front of the dogs down there, but probably half 669 00:40:33,640 --> 00:40:36,080 Speaker 1: a half walker and a half black and tan, a 670 00:40:36,120 --> 00:40:41,000 Speaker 1: little cheek k k. He was probably one of the 671 00:40:41,000 --> 00:40:44,720 Speaker 1: smartest dogs read but like and he go getting somewhere. 672 00:40:44,760 --> 00:40:46,520 Speaker 1: He could do it all. He could. He would a 673 00:40:46,520 --> 00:40:49,120 Speaker 1: strike on the track, he could cold trail. He was 674 00:40:49,200 --> 00:40:51,520 Speaker 1: good in the bluffs. You got in this country. You've 675 00:40:51,520 --> 00:40:54,239 Speaker 1: gotta have a dog that's not afraid of heights. He's 676 00:40:54,280 --> 00:40:56,640 Speaker 1: got to be good in the bluffs. Yeah, he's got 677 00:40:56,880 --> 00:41:00,760 Speaker 1: all the climb and navigate. That's right, and take some chances. 678 00:41:01,040 --> 00:41:04,600 Speaker 1: You don't want a reckless I mean the words they're 679 00:41:04,680 --> 00:41:08,400 Speaker 1: jumping off the forty ft bluffer. I mean, yeah, but 680 00:41:08,520 --> 00:41:10,480 Speaker 1: you want them to if they come to a ten 681 00:41:10,680 --> 00:41:13,440 Speaker 1: foot drop, you want them to pile off that tucker 682 00:41:13,480 --> 00:41:16,120 Speaker 1: and keep going, you know what I mean. And most 683 00:41:16,160 --> 00:41:19,360 Speaker 1: of them, some of these you need. You need adult 684 00:41:19,400 --> 00:41:23,640 Speaker 1: and get a good rough country. I want to ask 685 00:41:23,760 --> 00:41:27,040 Speaker 1: Mr Warner about a wild component of hunting lions in 686 00:41:27,080 --> 00:41:31,560 Speaker 1: the karst bluffy regions of the Southwest. These lions don't 687 00:41:31,600 --> 00:41:35,480 Speaker 1: always run up trees. Some of these stories might blow 688 00:41:35,520 --> 00:41:39,040 Speaker 1: your mind. I tell you a lot in this country 689 00:41:39,400 --> 00:41:42,279 Speaker 1: you're hoping your tree. One you hope your tree a 690 00:41:42,320 --> 00:41:44,799 Speaker 1: line or bed out on the bluff. But a lot 691 00:41:44,840 --> 00:41:47,319 Speaker 1: of times they're they'll get back in some kind of 692 00:41:47,360 --> 00:41:50,279 Speaker 1: a hole or crevice or crack, or a cave or 693 00:41:50,280 --> 00:41:53,000 Speaker 1: a shallow cave or a deep cave. Sometimes they get 694 00:41:53,120 --> 00:41:55,759 Speaker 1: way way back. We've had them get back in my 695 00:41:55,960 --> 00:42:00,560 Speaker 1: old abandoned mind tonels, and those are danger because you 696 00:42:00,560 --> 00:42:02,840 Speaker 1: don't know if they're gonna cave in and you're gonna 697 00:42:02,960 --> 00:42:06,640 Speaker 1: She's so anyway that at the time that mentioned in 698 00:42:06,760 --> 00:42:10,200 Speaker 1: there telling an hour together and we had that line 699 00:42:10,280 --> 00:42:12,200 Speaker 1: back in there, and we got her dogs out, and 700 00:42:12,239 --> 00:42:13,799 Speaker 1: I said, do you want to go in and see 701 00:42:13,920 --> 00:42:15,919 Speaker 1: the line if you want to hold the dog? She said, 702 00:42:15,920 --> 00:42:18,719 Speaker 1: not that I hold the dog. So I went in 703 00:42:18,840 --> 00:42:22,600 Speaker 1: and I did you want to make your shot count? 704 00:42:22,640 --> 00:42:25,840 Speaker 1: And you've got to It's it's not a danger steel 705 00:42:26,440 --> 00:42:29,239 Speaker 1: as far as the line goes. But I'll tell you 706 00:42:29,280 --> 00:42:32,240 Speaker 1: what what you gotta think about in these caves packed 707 00:42:32,280 --> 00:42:36,480 Speaker 1: in the winter time, or rattlesnakes hibernating because they hybernate 708 00:42:36,560 --> 00:42:39,120 Speaker 1: and you don't win a belly in there and crawling 709 00:42:39,200 --> 00:42:42,040 Speaker 1: and get on the top of the day snakes or 710 00:42:42,160 --> 00:42:47,640 Speaker 1: scorpions or stuff like that, and what you really the 711 00:42:47,719 --> 00:42:50,759 Speaker 1: danger And also when you fire that shot, and then 712 00:42:50,840 --> 00:42:53,400 Speaker 1: you gotta have your ears plug But mind here is 713 00:42:53,480 --> 00:42:56,359 Speaker 1: not too good. But I always really plug them good 714 00:42:56,400 --> 00:42:59,080 Speaker 1: before I fire shot. And it came and you sure 715 00:42:59,200 --> 00:43:02,920 Speaker 1: want to make sure that bullet goes into a bottle place. 716 00:43:03,440 --> 00:43:07,319 Speaker 1: And any hundred knows you can shoot an animal through 717 00:43:07,400 --> 00:43:09,680 Speaker 1: the heart and they can still run like heck for 718 00:43:09,719 --> 00:43:13,560 Speaker 1: about thirty forty yard before the drop dead. So that's 719 00:43:13,600 --> 00:43:16,759 Speaker 1: what happened. I hit the land in the chest with 720 00:43:16,880 --> 00:43:20,560 Speaker 1: three pistol and boy, he just boiled out. And I did. 721 00:43:20,840 --> 00:43:23,400 Speaker 1: I would lay on my belly because the cave is 722 00:43:23,440 --> 00:43:26,600 Speaker 1: only about this high, I mean, and I just dunt 723 00:43:26,600 --> 00:43:29,239 Speaker 1: and he run on. I don't even remember if he 724 00:43:29,320 --> 00:43:31,840 Speaker 1: stepped on me. He might have jumped completely old me. 725 00:43:32,120 --> 00:43:35,120 Speaker 1: But it all it happens so fast and left a 726 00:43:35,160 --> 00:43:38,200 Speaker 1: blood trail right down your back. Yeah, the blood went 727 00:43:38,400 --> 00:43:40,839 Speaker 1: right down and I didn't even know that. Kelly told 728 00:43:40,840 --> 00:43:43,080 Speaker 1: me later, see what did you do to your back? 729 00:43:44,160 --> 00:43:47,960 Speaker 1: I had a string of and I said I didn't 730 00:43:47,960 --> 00:43:52,640 Speaker 1: do anything, and she said, you've getten. Then we figured out, yeah, 731 00:43:52,719 --> 00:43:55,520 Speaker 1: and that's a that's a fairly common. It's pretty common 732 00:43:55,560 --> 00:43:59,200 Speaker 1: for him, the going caves down here and to go Yeah, 733 00:43:59,440 --> 00:44:01,879 Speaker 1: and you've got you've had one run between your legs too, 734 00:44:02,120 --> 00:44:04,880 Speaker 1: haven't you. Yeah. Yeah. The first the first thing you 735 00:44:04,920 --> 00:44:07,960 Speaker 1: have to do, get all your dogs behind it. You 736 00:44:08,080 --> 00:44:10,640 Speaker 1: gotta get them all and that's hard because they're all 737 00:44:11,719 --> 00:44:15,640 Speaker 1: competition for who's gonna get the first bite a hold 738 00:44:15,680 --> 00:44:17,680 Speaker 1: of the light, you know you got to get and 739 00:44:17,760 --> 00:44:22,319 Speaker 1: it's noisy, it's dusty, those tabs are it's hard to 740 00:44:22,320 --> 00:44:24,840 Speaker 1: see it. And you've gotta have a good flashlight. You 741 00:44:24,960 --> 00:44:29,000 Speaker 1: gotta You're gotta have a good light because that's what equalized. Well, 742 00:44:29,040 --> 00:44:35,520 Speaker 1: it changes everything in your favor. When Mr Warner wants 743 00:44:35,560 --> 00:44:38,680 Speaker 1: to tell you a story, you listen. He wanted to 744 00:44:38,719 --> 00:44:42,400 Speaker 1: tell me this one. It involves a young hound named 745 00:44:42,480 --> 00:44:46,880 Speaker 1: catch It. I'm gonna tell you a little story about 746 00:44:46,880 --> 00:44:49,640 Speaker 1: a dog that happened this year. We got a little 747 00:44:49,640 --> 00:44:51,480 Speaker 1: dog down here to show you in the morning named 748 00:44:51,600 --> 00:44:54,719 Speaker 1: Catching and she's making a really good dog, young dog. 749 00:44:55,120 --> 00:44:58,440 Speaker 1: And we went over here in that sheet are you 750 00:44:58,680 --> 00:45:01,440 Speaker 1: and hit a good track early in the morning and 751 00:45:01,800 --> 00:45:04,799 Speaker 1: ended up by on this pretty big little tongue. Now 752 00:45:04,840 --> 00:45:07,600 Speaker 1: I don't out on the bluff, and the bluff was 753 00:45:07,640 --> 00:45:10,480 Speaker 1: probably where he was back down on. It was probably 754 00:45:10,520 --> 00:45:13,560 Speaker 1: forty straight down to the lid and then another twenty 755 00:45:13,600 --> 00:45:18,279 Speaker 1: ft into the big rock slide rock boulder pole and 756 00:45:18,440 --> 00:45:20,960 Speaker 1: there he was backed up on the edge with a 757 00:45:21,080 --> 00:45:25,320 Speaker 1: tailor with a and the dogs were all right there there. 758 00:45:25,320 --> 00:45:28,840 Speaker 1: There was five five dollars and Kelly and I it 759 00:45:29,000 --> 00:45:31,880 Speaker 1: come in and got off her mules and I advent rifle, 760 00:45:32,320 --> 00:45:34,560 Speaker 1: and I can see that the dogs were here the 761 00:45:34,760 --> 00:45:38,000 Speaker 1: linders right here, and I can see it broadside, and 762 00:45:38,040 --> 00:45:39,719 Speaker 1: so I thought, well, I'm going to go ahead and 763 00:45:39,719 --> 00:45:42,120 Speaker 1: shoot that thing before it knocks all those dogs off 764 00:45:42,160 --> 00:45:45,759 Speaker 1: the blood. I am just barely behind the shoulder and 765 00:45:45,800 --> 00:45:48,319 Speaker 1: I squeezed it off. There's two twenty three. I carry 766 00:45:48,320 --> 00:45:51,399 Speaker 1: a little to twenty three and I hit it. That's 767 00:45:51,440 --> 00:45:55,919 Speaker 1: where But it jumped like that and my shot. Those 768 00:45:56,000 --> 00:45:58,080 Speaker 1: dogs got in a little close to the line, reached 769 00:45:58,120 --> 00:46:02,200 Speaker 1: out and grabbed cat just like that and pulled it 770 00:46:02,200 --> 00:46:04,839 Speaker 1: in and went over backwards, and they both then fell 771 00:46:04,880 --> 00:46:11,200 Speaker 1: off the bluff. It did makes you sick. And there 772 00:46:11,280 --> 00:46:15,760 Speaker 1: was to the to the first lag and then another, 773 00:46:16,640 --> 00:46:20,040 Speaker 1: and this was bad stuff. At the bottom. We knew 774 00:46:20,080 --> 00:46:22,719 Speaker 1: she was did I told Kelln she had gone down 775 00:46:22,760 --> 00:46:25,480 Speaker 1: there and the dogs were had gone back and were 776 00:46:25,520 --> 00:46:28,640 Speaker 1: coming around. And I went back to get the mules 777 00:46:28,680 --> 00:46:30,919 Speaker 1: and she got me on the radio and she said, Dad, 778 00:46:31,800 --> 00:46:35,320 Speaker 1: catch it's all right. She standing on this land fighting 779 00:46:35,360 --> 00:46:38,359 Speaker 1: the other dogs off the line was Dad, because she 780 00:46:38,400 --> 00:46:41,880 Speaker 1: had hit right on top of the lion's body and 781 00:46:42,040 --> 00:46:45,840 Speaker 1: evidently it broke because while we were skinning the land, 782 00:46:46,120 --> 00:46:49,200 Speaker 1: oh hook went up hit another track. There's been too 783 00:46:49,280 --> 00:46:51,200 Speaker 1: light and we didn't know it, and they went on 784 00:46:51,320 --> 00:46:54,720 Speaker 1: and she was with them, and they bade it three hours. 785 00:46:54,760 --> 00:46:57,200 Speaker 1: They baid it in another big patch of bluff. And 786 00:46:57,280 --> 00:47:00,040 Speaker 1: that's another story. That dog was totally fine after of 787 00:47:00,120 --> 00:47:09,440 Speaker 1: fallen six. Using numbers in hunting is always touchy business, 788 00:47:09,719 --> 00:47:11,839 Speaker 1: but we use math and every other part of our 789 00:47:11,880 --> 00:47:15,320 Speaker 1: lives to understand the world around us, so it's relevant 790 00:47:15,360 --> 00:47:19,040 Speaker 1: in this space too. I asked Kelly if she had 791 00:47:19,120 --> 00:47:22,799 Speaker 1: any idea how many lions her dad had caught in 792 00:47:22,920 --> 00:47:26,680 Speaker 1: his lifetime. When Mama passed away. We went through a 793 00:47:26,680 --> 00:47:29,799 Speaker 1: bunch of books. She had kept records dad dad keeps 794 00:47:29,800 --> 00:47:32,680 Speaker 1: a journal. My grandpa kept a journal all the way 795 00:47:32,760 --> 00:47:36,240 Speaker 1: up till the year he died, of every lion they caught, 796 00:47:36,640 --> 00:47:39,799 Speaker 1: whether it was here or Sonora, Mexico, or wherever. So 797 00:47:39,840 --> 00:47:43,280 Speaker 1: we counted there's a certain date that they had caught 798 00:47:43,280 --> 00:47:47,799 Speaker 1: their five hundred lion, and he documented that. Then we 799 00:47:47,840 --> 00:47:51,080 Speaker 1: went on through all of everybody's accounts and I compared 800 00:47:51,160 --> 00:47:53,839 Speaker 1: if Wendy wrote my mom, Wendy, if she wrote down 801 00:47:53,840 --> 00:47:56,440 Speaker 1: they caught a lion and hog Canyon on December twelve. 802 00:47:56,600 --> 00:47:58,799 Speaker 1: I made sure that I didn't report the same lion 803 00:47:58,880 --> 00:48:01,640 Speaker 1: out of Warner's journal. We were honest. I had two 804 00:48:01,640 --> 00:48:04,960 Speaker 1: women help me. We went yeah, and we're right now. 805 00:48:04,960 --> 00:48:08,719 Speaker 1: We're at about yeah. And that's the ones in the 806 00:48:08,760 --> 00:48:12,319 Speaker 1: sheep area. That's a lot of lines. It is for 807 00:48:12,400 --> 00:48:18,120 Speaker 1: a lifetime. When I hear a huge number of animals harvested, 808 00:48:18,320 --> 00:48:21,440 Speaker 1: my mind doesn't think of a tally mark or hides 809 00:48:21,520 --> 00:48:24,400 Speaker 1: on a wall. I think about the number of times 810 00:48:24,440 --> 00:48:26,360 Speaker 1: that he had to hook up his horse trailer in 811 00:48:26,400 --> 00:48:29,680 Speaker 1: the dark, wake up at two a m loads sixteen 812 00:48:29,719 --> 00:48:33,799 Speaker 1: dogs in the truck, and the literal hundreds of thousands 813 00:48:33,880 --> 00:48:37,320 Speaker 1: of miles he's put while on the back of an equine. 814 00:48:37,640 --> 00:48:42,439 Speaker 1: And I'm not throwing that big number around lightly. Let's 815 00:48:42,480 --> 00:48:45,359 Speaker 1: do some more math. Mr Warner is lying hunted since 816 00:48:45,400 --> 00:48:48,480 Speaker 1: he was six years old. As a conservative estimate, he's 817 00:48:48,560 --> 00:48:51,920 Speaker 1: ridden on average twenty five hundred miles per year for 818 00:48:52,000 --> 00:48:54,960 Speaker 1: the last seventy years of his life. And that's a 819 00:48:55,080 --> 00:48:58,400 Speaker 1: hundred and seventy five thousand miles and he's still counting. 820 00:48:58,760 --> 00:49:02,760 Speaker 1: He rides every I now want to ask Mr Warner 821 00:49:02,840 --> 00:49:06,719 Speaker 1: about how they've been involved in some meaningful ways to 822 00:49:06,920 --> 00:49:11,239 Speaker 1: preserve the open country of the Southwest. This is some 823 00:49:11,360 --> 00:49:16,520 Speaker 1: legit conservation. Tell me about the Maupi Borderlands group. I 824 00:49:16,640 --> 00:49:19,600 Speaker 1: tell you what that they were fell out here a 825 00:49:19,680 --> 00:49:22,560 Speaker 1: good friend of mine named Drummond Hadley that bought a 826 00:49:22,640 --> 00:49:25,759 Speaker 1: rent over here in New Mexico, a big ranch, a 827 00:49:25,840 --> 00:49:28,799 Speaker 1: big ranch, and he bought it, actually bought it from 828 00:49:28,800 --> 00:49:31,960 Speaker 1: the It was owned by Nature's Conservancy, and they were 829 00:49:32,000 --> 00:49:34,840 Speaker 1: looking for somebody to buy it, to keep it in 830 00:49:34,920 --> 00:49:38,120 Speaker 1: a viable rent and not develop it. And they didn't 831 00:49:38,160 --> 00:49:40,359 Speaker 1: want to sell that somebody that was going to break 832 00:49:40,400 --> 00:49:42,759 Speaker 1: it up before the Aco parcels and that, you know, 833 00:49:42,960 --> 00:49:45,440 Speaker 1: to tell side. They wanted to keep it in a 834 00:49:46,040 --> 00:49:50,520 Speaker 1: open country rent can't operating cataract. And they got to 835 00:49:50,600 --> 00:49:55,719 Speaker 1: talking with the Nature's Conservancy people and they met us. 836 00:49:55,800 --> 00:49:58,520 Speaker 1: They and they said the renters ought to get together 837 00:49:58,880 --> 00:50:01,920 Speaker 1: and and former group to keep this country opened and 838 00:50:02,600 --> 00:50:06,360 Speaker 1: get to where we could buy conservations on some of 839 00:50:06,400 --> 00:50:09,959 Speaker 1: the dated land of the regis to keep from subdivision. 840 00:50:10,400 --> 00:50:13,480 Speaker 1: It's what we've been trying to do so that That's 841 00:50:13,520 --> 00:50:15,920 Speaker 1: what got it together. It was trying to keep these 842 00:50:16,280 --> 00:50:22,760 Speaker 1: retched and retched and not forigger parcels. Very interesting stuff. 843 00:50:23,520 --> 00:50:27,160 Speaker 1: Mr Warner and his wife Wendy, who has since passed away, 844 00:50:27,280 --> 00:50:30,319 Speaker 1: where some of the founding members and Mr Warner is 845 00:50:30,360 --> 00:50:34,760 Speaker 1: a director to this day. Here's the scoop. The Maupi 846 00:50:34,880 --> 00:50:37,719 Speaker 1: Borderlands Group is a five oh one c three nonprofit 847 00:50:37,760 --> 00:50:42,000 Speaker 1: that was started in nineteen as the relationship between ranchers, 848 00:50:42,280 --> 00:50:46,560 Speaker 1: the federal government, and some environmental groups began to deteriorate. 849 00:50:47,160 --> 00:50:52,120 Speaker 1: They work with private landowners, government agencies, and nonprofit organizations 850 00:50:52,360 --> 00:50:56,560 Speaker 1: to help manage over one million acres of unfragmented land 851 00:50:56,760 --> 00:51:01,600 Speaker 1: in southeast Arizona and southwest New Mexico. The group says, quote, 852 00:51:02,040 --> 00:51:05,520 Speaker 1: our goal is to restore and maintain the natural processes 853 00:51:05,600 --> 00:51:10,280 Speaker 1: that create and protect a healthy, unfragmented landscape to support 854 00:51:10,320 --> 00:51:14,600 Speaker 1: a diverse, flourishing community of human, plant, and animal life 855 00:51:14,600 --> 00:51:18,440 Speaker 1: in our Borderlands region. Together, we will accomplish this by 856 00:51:18,520 --> 00:51:23,520 Speaker 1: working to encourage profitable ranching and other traditional livelihoods while 857 00:51:23,600 --> 00:51:27,600 Speaker 1: we sustain the open space of our land for generations 858 00:51:27,640 --> 00:51:31,120 Speaker 1: to come. End of quote. This is a summary of 859 00:51:31,160 --> 00:51:34,960 Speaker 1: what these guys do and have done. They've helped acquire 860 00:51:35,040 --> 00:51:38,960 Speaker 1: conservation easements on seventy eight thousand acres of private land. 861 00:51:39,280 --> 00:51:43,560 Speaker 1: This basically means that private landowners choose to put limitations 862 00:51:43,560 --> 00:51:46,040 Speaker 1: on what can be done with their land, like it 863 00:51:46,120 --> 00:51:50,399 Speaker 1: can't be subdivided when it's sold. Since nine seventy five 864 00:51:50,520 --> 00:51:53,960 Speaker 1: thousand acres of land have been involved in prescribed fire, 865 00:51:54,160 --> 00:51:56,520 Speaker 1: which is an important part of what the group originally 866 00:51:56,560 --> 00:52:00,120 Speaker 1: promoted for ecosystem health. Over the last twenty years is 867 00:52:00,160 --> 00:52:02,879 Speaker 1: the Maupi group has been involved in efforts aimed at 868 00:52:02,880 --> 00:52:06,239 Speaker 1: making the protection of endangered species in the area more 869 00:52:06,280 --> 00:52:11,280 Speaker 1: compatible with rural livelihoods. In cooperation, their efforts on behalf 870 00:52:11,280 --> 00:52:13,760 Speaker 1: of the jaguar, the leopard frog, the log knows about 871 00:52:13,880 --> 00:52:17,719 Speaker 1: the ridge nosed rattlesnake, among others, has resulted in a 872 00:52:17,760 --> 00:52:20,440 Speaker 1: more secure future for these animals, as well as for 873 00:52:20,480 --> 00:52:24,880 Speaker 1: the landowners whose livelihoods helped maintain their habitats. Here's a 874 00:52:24,960 --> 00:52:29,160 Speaker 1: great quote that demonstrates the influence of the organization. Quote. 875 00:52:29,200 --> 00:52:32,839 Speaker 1: Perhaps as important as any single thing we've accomplished, it's 876 00:52:32,880 --> 00:52:36,040 Speaker 1: the fact that this small group has had significant influence 877 00:52:36,080 --> 00:52:40,000 Speaker 1: on the way that ranchers the environmental community. The government 878 00:52:40,080 --> 00:52:44,240 Speaker 1: and the public perceived conservation and ranching. Today, the focus 879 00:52:44,280 --> 00:52:49,560 Speaker 1: is moving away from confrontation, regulation and litigation toward finding 880 00:52:49,680 --> 00:52:53,560 Speaker 1: common ground and working together using the best available science, 881 00:52:53,719 --> 00:52:57,080 Speaker 1: working at the level closest to the ground, and exhibiting 882 00:52:57,160 --> 00:53:02,000 Speaker 1: real stewardship. End of quote. What you seem to be 883 00:53:02,040 --> 00:53:04,560 Speaker 1: able to do. And you were able to work with 884 00:53:05,040 --> 00:53:08,719 Speaker 1: a lot of different groups, Mr, I mean, yeah, and 885 00:53:08,800 --> 00:53:11,359 Speaker 1: it was it was a pleasure, I tell you. We 886 00:53:11,360 --> 00:53:15,719 Speaker 1: were Nature Conservatives was a big one to help us 887 00:53:15,840 --> 00:53:18,759 Speaker 1: get to know the right people, and not only with 888 00:53:18,880 --> 00:53:23,640 Speaker 1: the environmental type people, but the agency people for service 889 00:53:23,719 --> 00:53:26,799 Speaker 1: to bill on the state land, Yeah, the fisher will, 890 00:53:26,880 --> 00:53:29,279 Speaker 1: that service. All of those have something to do with 891 00:53:29,320 --> 00:53:31,960 Speaker 1: all this country. So if you can get all those 892 00:53:32,000 --> 00:53:35,000 Speaker 1: people together and degree on keeping it open and keeping 893 00:53:35,000 --> 00:53:38,800 Speaker 1: it the way it is, I mean for hunters, for ranchers, 894 00:53:39,320 --> 00:53:44,319 Speaker 1: fragmentation we're trying to keep you know, tell me if 895 00:53:44,360 --> 00:53:47,120 Speaker 1: if this is a true assessment, and this is partly 896 00:53:47,120 --> 00:53:50,319 Speaker 1: what I read inside of your book is that and 897 00:53:50,360 --> 00:53:52,640 Speaker 1: this book was written about you. You didn't write the book, 898 00:53:52,680 --> 00:53:55,839 Speaker 1: but the author ed said that you had a lot 899 00:53:55,880 --> 00:54:00,200 Speaker 1: of tact and and wisdom in working with all these 900 00:54:00,239 --> 00:54:02,880 Speaker 1: different people to bring it in with a lot of people. 901 00:54:03,400 --> 00:54:05,319 Speaker 1: Maybe some of these groups would have naturally been in 902 00:54:05,480 --> 00:54:09,560 Speaker 1: conflict with one another, but but you were able to say, hey, 903 00:54:09,719 --> 00:54:12,480 Speaker 1: we're really all on the same team here, and you 904 00:54:12,520 --> 00:54:15,160 Speaker 1: were able to bring a bunch of people together for 905 00:54:15,200 --> 00:54:18,080 Speaker 1: a purpose, which was I mean quite a feat. I 906 00:54:18,120 --> 00:54:20,359 Speaker 1: was part of it. But I tell you we had 907 00:54:20,400 --> 00:54:24,239 Speaker 1: We had some other players, our neighbors. Some of these 908 00:54:24,239 --> 00:54:28,760 Speaker 1: rents were more better that I was. But I helped 909 00:54:28,840 --> 00:54:32,279 Speaker 1: anyway I could, and we would We would have the 910 00:54:32,680 --> 00:54:35,160 Speaker 1: We had the head of the forest Service, the head 911 00:54:35,160 --> 00:54:37,279 Speaker 1: of the billy on the head of all the fish 912 00:54:37,360 --> 00:54:40,440 Speaker 1: wild up service come from Washington and we put them 913 00:54:40,440 --> 00:54:43,200 Speaker 1: more mules. That's where I came in. I put on 914 00:54:43,320 --> 00:54:46,280 Speaker 1: a good mule and take them to top the mountains 915 00:54:46,600 --> 00:54:49,000 Speaker 1: and show him what we were talking about. We were 916 00:54:49,000 --> 00:54:51,040 Speaker 1: a part of it. We hosted a lot of it 917 00:54:51,120 --> 00:54:53,720 Speaker 1: because we had the facilities here in the held meetings 918 00:54:53,960 --> 00:54:57,480 Speaker 1: and also we could feed groups groups of people that 919 00:54:57,719 --> 00:55:02,080 Speaker 1: come in. And yeah, we did wi little dinah trying 920 00:55:02,120 --> 00:55:05,560 Speaker 1: to make them. We we just kind of rewarded them 921 00:55:05,560 --> 00:55:08,520 Speaker 1: for taking the time to come and look. Yeah, you know, 922 00:55:08,640 --> 00:55:14,880 Speaker 1: and I tell you we got a lot doing. The 923 00:55:14,960 --> 00:55:19,520 Speaker 1: fruit of success almost always grows from the seed of failure, 924 00:55:19,719 --> 00:55:23,279 Speaker 1: and sometimes that part of the journey is overlooked. An 925 00:55:23,320 --> 00:55:26,680 Speaker 1: influential event in Mr Warner's life took place in the 926 00:55:26,719 --> 00:55:30,680 Speaker 1: early nineteen eighties, long before the success of the Maupi 927 00:55:30,760 --> 00:55:34,560 Speaker 1: Borderland's Group, and I want to see if Mr Warner 928 00:55:34,800 --> 00:55:38,600 Speaker 1: is open to talking about him. You got in a 929 00:55:38,800 --> 00:55:43,280 Speaker 1: tussle with one of the border agents. I did that 930 00:55:43,640 --> 00:55:47,359 Speaker 1: change the way you saw that you needed to deal 931 00:55:47,400 --> 00:55:50,319 Speaker 1: with people? Can you talk to me about that? You 932 00:55:50,400 --> 00:55:52,520 Speaker 1: bet that? Just tell me that kind of tell me 933 00:55:52,600 --> 00:55:54,799 Speaker 1: the story and then tell me how it affects. I 934 00:55:54,880 --> 00:55:58,360 Speaker 1: had a pretty pretty volatile temper when I was younger, 935 00:55:58,800 --> 00:56:01,520 Speaker 1: and a lot of stuff. But I did then that 936 00:56:01,640 --> 00:56:04,680 Speaker 1: I wouldn't do that day. I did my butt take 937 00:56:04,800 --> 00:56:08,800 Speaker 1: out any anyway, I don't know, you still look pretty wiry. 938 00:56:08,880 --> 00:56:12,759 Speaker 1: That fellow was. That fellow was out of life, no 939 00:56:12,800 --> 00:56:14,960 Speaker 1: doubt about it. He told me what he could do 940 00:56:15,040 --> 00:56:18,120 Speaker 1: in anywhere he wanted on my needed land, and I 941 00:56:18,120 --> 00:56:20,560 Speaker 1: had I couldn't do anything about it. And I told 942 00:56:20,600 --> 00:56:22,640 Speaker 1: him I thought I could, and he said, well, you 943 00:56:22,680 --> 00:56:26,560 Speaker 1: sure can, so I did. But anyway, it got me 944 00:56:26,600 --> 00:56:28,839 Speaker 1: in a big trouble you one thing about it, even 945 00:56:28,880 --> 00:56:32,560 Speaker 1: a federal uniformed officer, I don't took him to the 946 00:56:32,640 --> 00:56:37,160 Speaker 1: ground and rubbers had in the dirt. I mean, it 947 00:56:37,239 --> 00:56:41,480 Speaker 1: was just how old were you, Mr Warner? Probably forty seven? 948 00:56:43,120 --> 00:56:45,919 Speaker 1: I could go on and knowing about that, but that that, 949 00:56:46,160 --> 00:56:49,880 Speaker 1: of course, that's a felony. Anytime you would touch a 950 00:56:50,000 --> 00:56:56,200 Speaker 1: federal officer, assault a medal officer, that's that's a felly charged. 951 00:56:56,360 --> 00:56:58,320 Speaker 1: And there's no doubt about it. I did it, it 952 00:56:58,520 --> 00:57:02,480 Speaker 1: wasn't and I never be any excuses. I just told 953 00:57:02,560 --> 00:57:05,600 Speaker 1: him why I did it. And I didn't go to prison, 954 00:57:05,640 --> 00:57:08,279 Speaker 1: but I came that close. And also if if you 955 00:57:08,320 --> 00:57:10,960 Speaker 1: have a felony charge, you can't have a firearm for 956 00:57:11,000 --> 00:57:13,680 Speaker 1: so many years, and it affects your way of life. 957 00:57:13,800 --> 00:57:16,320 Speaker 1: Just taught me, big boy, you better be careful what 958 00:57:16,360 --> 00:57:18,880 Speaker 1: you're doing. And that they told me there's some of 959 00:57:18,920 --> 00:57:22,000 Speaker 1: the agents. They had an agent that dealt with things 960 00:57:22,080 --> 00:57:24,000 Speaker 1: like that, and they came and talked to me and 961 00:57:24,040 --> 00:57:26,200 Speaker 1: they said, wonder what you should have done. Has gone 962 00:57:26,200 --> 00:57:29,800 Speaker 1: to his supervisor and let them take care of it. 963 00:57:29,960 --> 00:57:32,800 Speaker 1: And I said, well, now I can see that. At 964 00:57:32,800 --> 00:57:35,600 Speaker 1: the time I was hord I was tired, and this 965 00:57:35,640 --> 00:57:38,360 Speaker 1: guy who was told me one and he was standing 966 00:57:38,440 --> 00:57:41,320 Speaker 1: on my private land and we were talking about the 967 00:57:41,320 --> 00:57:45,200 Speaker 1: effect of vehicle traffic over my private land where there 968 00:57:45,280 --> 00:57:49,840 Speaker 1: was no roads. I just figured that that in my 969 00:57:49,920 --> 00:57:52,440 Speaker 1: way of thinking, right then I had a right to 970 00:57:52,720 --> 00:57:56,400 Speaker 1: protect my problem too. But he was but he wasn't 971 00:57:56,400 --> 00:58:00,280 Speaker 1: a federal I wasn't wrong, no, no doubt, but so 972 00:58:00,520 --> 00:58:04,080 Speaker 1: was he. And well, the way it turned out, I 973 00:58:04,120 --> 00:58:06,960 Speaker 1: didn't go to prison and they shipped him out of here. Yeah, 974 00:58:07,120 --> 00:58:10,360 Speaker 1: and it was but it was a thing that I 975 00:58:10,680 --> 00:58:13,560 Speaker 1: wished I had gone about it well. But what I 976 00:58:13,720 --> 00:58:17,919 Speaker 1: take away from it is that later you became very 977 00:58:18,000 --> 00:58:21,280 Speaker 1: skillful in dealing with these people, and that that event 978 00:58:21,600 --> 00:58:24,400 Speaker 1: changed the course of kind of how you were and 979 00:58:24,440 --> 00:58:28,200 Speaker 1: how you worked with these absolutely. Yeah. And and really 980 00:58:28,240 --> 00:58:32,640 Speaker 1: I respect a law enforcement Yeah I really. There there 981 00:58:32,640 --> 00:58:35,600 Speaker 1: are some guy who had law enforcement. They probably don't 982 00:58:35,640 --> 00:58:39,000 Speaker 1: deserve to be there. But by and large I had 983 00:58:39,040 --> 00:58:42,360 Speaker 1: back to those guys, IM sure. And part of that's 984 00:58:42,440 --> 00:58:46,800 Speaker 1: just I gotta learned, you know that they've gotta they've 985 00:58:46,840 --> 00:58:49,200 Speaker 1: got a job to do. Yeah, And it's a tough 986 00:58:49,240 --> 00:58:52,640 Speaker 1: one thing. Uh. I'm not ashamed that that happened, but 987 00:58:52,760 --> 00:58:55,480 Speaker 1: it taught me a good lesson. You know, I deeply 988 00:58:55,640 --> 00:58:59,000 Speaker 1: value that you can say that, because a lot of 989 00:58:59,040 --> 00:59:02,160 Speaker 1: times negative thing happened to people and it shapes them 990 00:59:02,480 --> 00:59:05,880 Speaker 1: and makes them bitter and changes their life for the negative. 991 00:59:06,480 --> 00:59:09,760 Speaker 1: But what I respect about your character is that that 992 00:59:10,200 --> 00:59:12,200 Speaker 1: you know you can own up to it. And but 993 00:59:12,440 --> 00:59:14,479 Speaker 1: I think it I think it changed you for the better. 994 00:59:14,760 --> 00:59:17,240 Speaker 1: I'll tell you a little I would have told Daddy 995 00:59:17,480 --> 00:59:19,840 Speaker 1: because I knew he was gonna he was gonna find out. 996 00:59:20,560 --> 00:59:23,840 Speaker 1: And he sat there and listening after the through telling me. 997 00:59:23,960 --> 00:59:26,200 Speaker 1: He said, I didn't know as she gets a lot 998 00:59:26,280 --> 00:59:33,960 Speaker 1: of hit a little man, your dad. He was taking 999 00:59:34,040 --> 00:59:36,240 Speaker 1: your side, wouldn't he. That's all the good dad's supposed 1000 00:59:36,280 --> 00:59:44,800 Speaker 1: to do. That's great. In closing, I asked Mr Warner 1001 00:59:44,880 --> 00:59:48,480 Speaker 1: if he had any advice for life. This is what 1002 00:59:48,520 --> 00:59:53,200 Speaker 1: he said. I tell you it. Reader doesn't pay you 1003 00:59:53,640 --> 00:59:57,600 Speaker 1: to worry about a lot of stuff because you just 1004 00:59:57,720 --> 00:59:59,880 Speaker 1: go ahead and do your best to what you're doing 1005 01:00:00,040 --> 01:00:03,720 Speaker 1: and and don't let you get into your brain that's 1006 01:00:03,760 --> 01:00:06,439 Speaker 1: gonna worry you. But and that's hard to do. It's 1007 01:00:06,440 --> 01:00:09,080 Speaker 1: hard not to worry, but especially if it's family or 1008 01:00:09,200 --> 01:00:12,680 Speaker 1: y under another that it just kind of eat as 1009 01:00:12,720 --> 01:00:17,200 Speaker 1: healthy as you can and stay active. Yeah, you don't 1010 01:00:17,280 --> 01:00:20,720 Speaker 1: sit on your butt. You work very hard, don't you. 1011 01:00:20,720 --> 01:00:24,920 Speaker 1: You know it's hard as I can. Yeah, it's not 1012 01:00:25,120 --> 01:00:28,560 Speaker 1: very hard anymore. Well, you're I know tomorrow morning you're 1013 01:00:28,560 --> 01:00:32,120 Speaker 1: planning to get up at four am, and I know 1014 01:00:32,240 --> 01:00:34,600 Speaker 1: this evening we were with you and you work fell dark. 1015 01:00:34,960 --> 01:00:36,840 Speaker 1: I mean that that's a pretty long day that you're 1016 01:00:36,840 --> 01:00:39,720 Speaker 1: putting in, which is probably pretty average for Yeah. Yeah, 1017 01:00:39,920 --> 01:00:43,000 Speaker 1: I try, I tell you. In summertime, I try to 1018 01:00:43,040 --> 01:00:45,920 Speaker 1: take an hour now in the middle of the day 1019 01:00:45,920 --> 01:00:49,600 Speaker 1: after looks or something like that. But as far as advice, 1020 01:00:49,960 --> 01:00:54,080 Speaker 1: just eat well and of course leave leave any of 1021 01:00:54,120 --> 01:00:57,960 Speaker 1: the substance abuse out of you. I don't think a 1022 01:00:58,040 --> 01:01:01,320 Speaker 1: guy needs to smoke, he thought, Sure, doesn't you have 1023 01:01:01,520 --> 01:01:05,080 Speaker 1: to use alcohol in excess and then just do what 1024 01:01:05,240 --> 01:01:08,280 Speaker 1: you're happy doing. I tell you, I wouldn't. You can 1025 01:01:08,360 --> 01:01:12,760 Speaker 1: make a lot more money if you're interested in monetary 1026 01:01:12,840 --> 01:01:16,840 Speaker 1: type reward doing something besides hunting and rent. And but 1027 01:01:16,960 --> 01:01:19,040 Speaker 1: I love to do it. I mean it's something that 1028 01:01:19,320 --> 01:01:21,800 Speaker 1: I think if a person doing what he likes to do, 1029 01:01:22,360 --> 01:01:26,040 Speaker 1: that's a big thing for his head and his heart both. 1030 01:01:26,280 --> 01:01:29,040 Speaker 1: Why do you why do you love doing what you do? What? 1031 01:01:29,040 --> 01:01:31,480 Speaker 1: What is your reward for the kind of lifestyle that 1032 01:01:31,560 --> 01:01:34,960 Speaker 1: you live? Oh my gosh. Well, it's very few people 1033 01:01:35,080 --> 01:01:39,880 Speaker 1: that get to be out in the Lord's creation every day. 1034 01:01:40,000 --> 01:01:42,800 Speaker 1: A lot of people never have the tempt even think 1035 01:01:42,880 --> 01:01:46,560 Speaker 1: about what I see during the day's time. And you know, 1036 01:01:46,640 --> 01:01:50,360 Speaker 1: I just I pray. And it does you good to pray. 1037 01:01:50,400 --> 01:01:53,240 Speaker 1: I tell you what it does. It doesn't. You may 1038 01:01:53,240 --> 01:01:55,200 Speaker 1: not get what you ask for him, but it's sure 1039 01:01:55,520 --> 01:01:58,200 Speaker 1: at least you know you've done everything you can. But 1040 01:01:58,280 --> 01:02:03,080 Speaker 1: they're daring, sure, and created the world we live in. Yeah, 1041 01:02:03,120 --> 01:02:06,640 Speaker 1: I mean to think about what happened. I mean, there's 1042 01:02:06,680 --> 01:02:09,040 Speaker 1: sudden the moon and thing that are tied to the 1043 01:02:09,160 --> 01:02:14,360 Speaker 1: tide and the oceans, the landscape that a little fun 1044 01:02:14,680 --> 01:02:17,800 Speaker 1: born in, that little sucker jumped up a little while 1045 01:02:17,880 --> 01:02:20,960 Speaker 1: and go to looking for a nipple, you know what 1046 01:02:20,960 --> 01:02:25,760 Speaker 1: I mean. And that's something that the creator had and 1047 01:02:25,840 --> 01:02:31,280 Speaker 1: we haven't figured it all that yet. Sequences of words 1048 01:02:31,320 --> 01:02:35,840 Speaker 1: strung together in English communicated through human vocal cords only 1049 01:02:36,000 --> 01:02:40,320 Speaker 1: carry so much weight by themselves. However, when those words 1050 01:02:40,360 --> 01:02:44,080 Speaker 1: are connected to a robust life, they have the power 1051 01:02:44,240 --> 01:02:47,840 Speaker 1: to truly impact us. I don't have a lot to 1052 01:02:47,920 --> 01:02:51,640 Speaker 1: say in closing, other than I cherished the opportunity to 1053 01:02:51,800 --> 01:02:55,080 Speaker 1: know people like the Glens on a personal level. I 1054 01:02:55,120 --> 01:02:58,320 Speaker 1: was deeply impacted by Mr Warner's humility and how he 1055 01:02:58,440 --> 01:03:02,520 Speaker 1: carried himself despite his accomplishments, which could so easily be 1056 01:03:02,640 --> 01:03:06,560 Speaker 1: translated into pride. On a wider scale, I think the 1057 01:03:06,640 --> 01:03:09,840 Speaker 1: character and value system of the Glens is something that 1058 01:03:09,920 --> 01:03:13,920 Speaker 1: America can look to to remember where we came from. 1059 01:03:14,080 --> 01:03:16,720 Speaker 1: You and I can't change the course of a nation, 1060 01:03:17,000 --> 01:03:20,480 Speaker 1: nor can politicians or man made laws. But you and 1061 01:03:20,520 --> 01:03:24,520 Speaker 1: I can dictate and change how we live, our character 1062 01:03:24,840 --> 01:03:28,160 Speaker 1: and our responses to the things that life will throw 1063 01:03:28,280 --> 01:03:31,160 Speaker 1: at us while we're on this planet. I'm not suggesting 1064 01:03:31,240 --> 01:03:34,360 Speaker 1: lack of civic involvement, but I am saying that real 1065 01:03:34,560 --> 01:03:38,120 Speaker 1: change starts in the heart of man, and that is 1066 01:03:38,200 --> 01:03:42,040 Speaker 1: really the only thing we could control. I love dry ground, 1067 01:03:42,080 --> 01:03:46,520 Speaker 1: lion hunting, mules, and hound dogs. I love everything that 1068 01:03:46,600 --> 01:03:50,400 Speaker 1: the Glens have done for conservation, But what I mostly 1069 01:03:50,440 --> 01:03:55,400 Speaker 1: took away from them was deeper and almost indescribable. Long 1070 01:03:55,520 --> 01:03:59,720 Speaker 1: live the open country of the Southwest and the wild beasts. 1071 01:04:00,040 --> 01:04:04,000 Speaker 1: The cowboys and the lion hunters that inhabit with them. 1072 01:04:06,960 --> 01:04:10,200 Speaker 1: I can't thank you folks enough for listening to Bear Grease. 1073 01:04:10,600 --> 01:04:14,240 Speaker 1: We'll have one more podcast that will involve Mr Warner. 1074 01:04:14,680 --> 01:04:17,640 Speaker 1: On the next episode, we'll be talking about the Borderland's 1075 01:04:17,800 --> 01:04:22,800 Speaker 1: jaguars in the United States. It's wild and interesting stuff, 1076 01:04:23,160 --> 01:04:26,480 Speaker 1: so don't miss it. Please share Bear Grease with a 1077 01:04:26,600 --> 01:04:30,840 Speaker 1: friend this week and keep the open country open.