WEBVTT - China Vowing Retaliation After Houston Consulate Closure 0:00:00.720 --> 0:00:03.720 This is Bloomberg Business Week. I'm Carol Masser and I'm 0:00:03.800 --> 0:00:06.320 Jason Kelly. We're right here every day bringing you the 0:00:06.400 --> 0:00:11.160 latest news from the world's of business and finance, plus technology, politics, economics, 0:00:11.240 --> 0:00:14.280 all harnessing the power of Business Week reporters and editors. 0:00:14.440 --> 0:00:16.439 And of course Carol that's part of a team of 0:00:16.520 --> 0:00:20.439 twenty seven hundred journalists and analysts more than a hundred 0:00:20.480 --> 0:00:23.240 and twenty countries and Jason. You can download Bloomberg Business 0:00:23.280 --> 0:00:26.239 Week on iTunes, SoundCloud, bl Bloomberg dot com. You can 0:00:26.280 --> 0:00:28.640 also listen to our radio show at two pm Eastern 0:00:28.680 --> 0:00:31.560 on Bloomberg Radio every weekday, or watch us on YouTube 0:00:31.600 --> 0:00:35.879 by searching Bloomberg Global News. Our next guest took over 0:00:35.920 --> 0:00:38.680 as president of the a m A, the American Medical Association, 0:00:38.720 --> 0:00:42.720 just last month. Dr Susan Bailey is an allergist and immunologist, 0:00:42.960 --> 0:00:45.640 the one seventy president of the a m A. She 0:00:45.920 --> 0:00:48.600 came to the job amid the pandemic and a and 0:00:48.640 --> 0:00:51.159 an inauguration. I should say that was also had to 0:00:51.200 --> 0:00:54.560 be done virtually because of the situation. She joins us 0:00:54.640 --> 0:00:56.520 right now on the phone from Fort Worth, Texas. Dr 0:00:56.560 --> 0:01:00.400 Bailey um SO delighted to have you here on Bloomberg Radio. 0:01:01.000 --> 0:01:04.000 First of all, how are you, congratulations and tell us 0:01:04.040 --> 0:01:07.640 about life in Texas right now. Well, thank you so 0:01:07.720 --> 0:01:10.880 much for the congratulations and for having me on your show. 0:01:11.680 --> 0:01:16.600 Aside from being very hot in Texas, UM, the coronavirus 0:01:16.720 --> 0:01:20.560 is a very hot as well. UM. Texas is one 0:01:20.560 --> 0:01:22.840 of the many hot spots in the country for the 0:01:22.920 --> 0:01:27.000 virus and UM. Many of our hospitals UM are full 0:01:27.680 --> 0:01:33.040 UM and although we are seeing some little trends that 0:01:33.240 --> 0:01:37.080 we may be seeing a downward slide in cases, which 0:01:37.120 --> 0:01:40.280 I think is because of the mask mandates are governor 0:01:40.319 --> 0:01:44.400 introduced earlier in the month. Well, let's talk about that, 0:01:45.040 --> 0:01:48.440 Dr Bailey, as a physician and as someone who you 0:01:48.480 --> 0:01:52.000 and your colleagues have been tracking this so closely. I 0:01:52.040 --> 0:01:57.120 feel like some local and state and even federal leaders 0:01:57.120 --> 0:01:59.880 are getting religion maybe a little belatedly, on on the 0:02:00.080 --> 0:02:03.640 mask wearing. What effect will that have? I mean, is 0:02:03.720 --> 0:02:07.960 this the sort of thing that could really, as they say, 0:02:08.000 --> 0:02:11.560 sort of arrest this and really changed the trajectory. Now 0:02:11.600 --> 0:02:14.040 that it does feel like we're all getting on board 0:02:14.040 --> 0:02:19.120 with this, UM, wearing a mask should not be a 0:02:19.160 --> 0:02:23.160 political statement. You know that being said, leadership UH and 0:02:23.400 --> 0:02:28.880 UM symbolism is very important in society and UM. The 0:02:28.919 --> 0:02:33.360 American Medical Association, the American Hospital Association, and American Nurses 0:02:33.440 --> 0:02:37.520 Association recently released a statement that we are all in 0:02:37.600 --> 0:02:41.280 agreement that everyone needs to take the simple steps that 0:02:41.320 --> 0:02:43.560 we know will stop the spread of the virus by 0:02:43.639 --> 0:02:49.240 wearing masks, maintaining physical distancing and washing hands. UM. We 0:02:49.320 --> 0:02:52.680 agree with the CDC that everybody in the country ought 0:02:52.680 --> 0:02:55.520 to be wearing a mask. I have to say, any 0:02:55.520 --> 0:02:58.240 of the experiences and interactions I've had, you know, with 0:02:58.320 --> 0:03:01.040 the medical community, certainly as as certainly the New York 0:03:01.040 --> 0:03:04.720 Metro has started to open up and reopen up, you know, UM, 0:03:04.840 --> 0:03:08.640 hospitals and medical centers for kind of routine procedures. You know, doctors, 0:03:08.720 --> 0:03:11.560 everybody's in masks like there's it's just the way of life, 0:03:11.560 --> 0:03:13.639 and they understand that that's just the way it has 0:03:13.680 --> 0:03:17.200 to be to keep everybody safe. Well, I think it's 0:03:17.200 --> 0:03:20.520 important to remember that back to business doesn't mean business 0:03:20.520 --> 0:03:23.320 as usual. I believe that we're going to have to 0:03:23.360 --> 0:03:28.239 observe our mask wearing, physical distancing, and hand washing for 0:03:28.320 --> 0:03:33.680 the indefinite future. UM. We now have good scientific evidence 0:03:33.720 --> 0:03:37.640 to show that mask wearing does decrease the transmission of 0:03:37.680 --> 0:03:41.160 the virus. It protects the wearer, it protects the people 0:03:41.240 --> 0:03:44.840 that are near the wearer, and UM, some have tried 0:03:44.880 --> 0:03:48.560 to make a controversy or a conspiracy out of changing 0:03:48.600 --> 0:03:52.080 recommendations over time. You know, nothing could be further from 0:03:52.120 --> 0:03:54.880 the truth. And the beginning of the pandemic, we did 0:03:54.920 --> 0:04:00.240 not realize how much asymptomatic spread there was out there, 0:04:00.520 --> 0:04:02.520 and we didn't think that wearing a mask would make 0:04:02.600 --> 0:04:04.640 much difference, and we wanted to make sure that there 0:04:04.680 --> 0:04:09.280 were masks available for health care personnel that we're really 0:04:09.360 --> 0:04:13.160 getting heavy, heavy exposure to the virus. Now that we 0:04:13.240 --> 0:04:17.240 know that the virus is practically everywhere, UM, we do 0:04:17.360 --> 0:04:20.920 think that masks for everyone are appropriate, even the cloth 0:04:21.000 --> 0:04:26.440 mask UM, and encourage everybody to wear them. So Dr 0:04:26.480 --> 0:04:29.920 Bailey talked to us about, well, we'll talk about vaccines 0:04:29.920 --> 0:04:31.880 in a little while, but I wanted to talk to 0:04:31.880 --> 0:04:34.040 you about treatments because I feel like that's one of 0:04:34.120 --> 0:04:35.719 the things we've been talking a little bit more about 0:04:35.720 --> 0:04:38.039 this week, Carol and I have on this program is 0:04:38.080 --> 0:04:40.440 sort of what's out there right now to treat this 0:04:40.560 --> 0:04:43.800 disease because we know that a vaccine is months away. 0:04:44.080 --> 0:04:46.840 Best case. Uh, what are you seeing in terms of 0:04:47.040 --> 0:04:52.719 treatments that are working well? Unfortunately, the treatment side of 0:04:52.760 --> 0:04:57.719 the equation is still very very sparse. Um. Everyone has 0:04:57.960 --> 0:05:02.359 likely heard of rim dissevere um anti viral medication, but 0:05:02.440 --> 0:05:05.599 that's being reserved for patients in the hospital who are 0:05:05.640 --> 0:05:08.679 extremely ill. Um It may work a little bit better 0:05:08.760 --> 0:05:11.400 earlier in the illness, but um, that's going to be 0:05:11.480 --> 0:05:15.360 limited by the amount of medication that's available. Um. There's 0:05:15.440 --> 0:05:19.120 been some reports out of Great Britain that adding a 0:05:19.200 --> 0:05:23.560 steroid um for severely ill patients can be very helpful. 0:05:23.920 --> 0:05:26.719 But other than that, the only treatment that we have 0:05:26.920 --> 0:05:30.920 really is prevention. Uh. There are a number of drugs 0:05:30.960 --> 0:05:35.359 and the pipeline monoclonal antibodies and other therapeutics that we 0:05:35.440 --> 0:05:39.240 hope will um, you know, be able to be used 0:05:39.240 --> 0:05:43.400 to treat COVID nineteen at earlier stages, but those are 0:05:43.440 --> 0:05:47.920 all um still in the planning phase. Right now, you 0:05:47.920 --> 0:05:50.120 are listening to Bloomberg Business Week. Let's get back to 0:05:50.120 --> 0:05:52.960 our conversation with Dr Susan Bailey, president of the American 0:05:53.000 --> 0:05:56.880 Medical Association, newly minted newly inaugurated. She joined us on 0:05:56.920 --> 0:05:59.560 the phone from Fort Worth, and we just heard an 0:05:59.640 --> 0:06:02.800 update from our friends over John's Hopkins via Charlie Pellett 0:06:02.800 --> 0:06:06.920 about the state of the vaccine research. Dr Bailey, I 0:06:06.920 --> 0:06:09.239 feel like the last week or so, we're just getting 0:06:09.279 --> 0:06:12.480 these little headlines here and there, especially from an investor perspective, 0:06:12.520 --> 0:06:16.960 that makes people a little more optimistic. Is that optimism misplaced? 0:06:17.279 --> 0:06:21.440 What's the realistic view on a vaccine at this point? Well, 0:06:21.440 --> 0:06:25.000 it is nice to get anything that closely resembles good 0:06:25.000 --> 0:06:28.400 news when we're talking about COVID nineteen UM, but it 0:06:28.839 --> 0:06:33.560 I cautioned that it is very very early. UM. It's 0:06:33.800 --> 0:06:38.000 wonderful that the vaccines that we're seeing now uh gosha. 0:06:38.160 --> 0:06:41.160 There are three that are the closest to UM actually 0:06:41.240 --> 0:06:44.680 being produced for the public, but there's over a dozen 0:06:45.160 --> 0:06:49.440 that are being studied. We think that they can they're immunogenic, 0:06:49.480 --> 0:06:53.200 which means it can give people antibodies to the disease. 0:06:53.760 --> 0:06:56.560 But the really important point, the reason you get a 0:06:56.600 --> 0:06:59.640 vaccine in the first places, it does it keep a 0:06:59.800 --> 0:07:02.960 per from catching the disease when they're exposed to it, 0:07:03.279 --> 0:07:06.880 And we don't know that yet. COVID nineteen is kind 0:07:06.880 --> 0:07:09.920 of tricky. When people catch it and develop their own 0:07:10.000 --> 0:07:14.840 natural antibodies. We're looking, we're saying they don't last very long, 0:07:15.320 --> 0:07:18.280 and so will that happen with a vaccine. I think 0:07:18.320 --> 0:07:21.280 time will tell them. That's why Phase three studies are 0:07:21.320 --> 0:07:25.600 so important. So I don't know, nobody has a crystal ball. 0:07:25.720 --> 0:07:28.040 Dr Bailey and I understand that. And we're learning so 0:07:28.120 --> 0:07:31.520 much about this virus and treatments today right as we go. 0:07:32.000 --> 0:07:35.440 So how do you see potentially the next three to 0:07:35.560 --> 0:07:39.920 six months, what's our world look like. Well, I think 0:07:40.200 --> 0:07:41.960 we're all this is going to look very similar to 0:07:42.040 --> 0:07:44.200 what it looks like now. I think we're going to 0:07:44.320 --> 0:07:49.480 have to put our priority on UM public health measures 0:07:49.520 --> 0:07:53.000 like wearing your mask, keeping your hands clean, physical distancing 0:07:53.480 --> 0:07:58.080 UM opening up very carefully and very slowly. UM it will. 0:07:58.240 --> 0:08:01.000 I'll be real surprised if we have a vaccine before 0:08:01.120 --> 0:08:04.080 the end of the calendar year that's been shown to 0:08:04.160 --> 0:08:08.720 be UM safe and effective. Vaccines are safe and effective, 0:08:08.800 --> 0:08:11.560 but we've got to make sure they work first. UM. 0:08:11.600 --> 0:08:15.200 I think that hopefully we'll see some slowing down of 0:08:15.240 --> 0:08:18.000 the number of cases if folks, you know, do their 0:08:18.040 --> 0:08:21.880 good old basic measures but um, I think we're still 0:08:21.920 --> 0:08:24.720 going to kind of be in a oh wait and 0:08:24.800 --> 0:08:27.120 see kind of position to see how things pan out 0:08:27.120 --> 0:08:29.920 with vaccines. But that meantime, can I just have to 0:08:29.920 --> 0:08:32.880 know if if if vaccines, if vaccines are not the 0:08:32.920 --> 0:08:36.760 cure all though, right, we still don't know then, you know, 0:08:36.800 --> 0:08:39.880 I do wonder about what kind of world we live in. Well, 0:08:40.200 --> 0:08:43.360 I'm hoping they'll be you know, the answer eventually. We 0:08:43.440 --> 0:08:45.320 just don't know how quick that's going to be. We 0:08:45.360 --> 0:08:47.840 don't know if you're going to need a booster shot. 0:08:47.920 --> 0:08:49.560 We don't know if you're going to need one every 0:08:49.640 --> 0:08:52.640 year like you do your flu shot, which reminds me 0:08:52.800 --> 0:08:55.679 we are really pushing hard for everybody to get their 0:08:55.679 --> 0:09:00.920 flu shot this year, um because of the pandemic UM. Hospitals, 0:09:01.000 --> 0:09:03.559 doctor's offices are going to be busy enough. Believe it 0:09:03.640 --> 0:09:05.959 or not, you can catch the flu and COVID nineteen 0:09:06.000 --> 0:09:10.360 at the same time, which, oh gosh, you're really really sick. 0:09:10.440 --> 0:09:13.240 So we're encouraging everyone to get their flu shot and 0:09:13.240 --> 0:09:15.680 do a little pre planning because it may not be 0:09:15.720 --> 0:09:18.400 as easy to get. There's going to be plenty of 0:09:18.520 --> 0:09:22.880 vaccine available, but like your employer may not offer it anymore. 0:09:23.000 --> 0:09:26.560 You're it may not be quite as convenient to get one, 0:09:26.679 --> 0:09:29.160 but they certainly will be out there, and we encourage 0:09:29.200 --> 0:09:31.199 everybody over the age of six months to get a 0:09:31.200 --> 0:09:34.480 flu shot this year. So dry before we let you go, 0:09:34.760 --> 0:09:36.400 you know, I have to ask you sort of in 0:09:36.920 --> 0:09:40.199 in this new position. You know, you have this vast membership, 0:09:40.320 --> 0:09:44.160 and I think we're all worried a little bit about 0:09:44.760 --> 0:09:47.000 doctors out there who have been on the front lines. 0:09:47.800 --> 0:09:50.440 How is it going, sort of generally as you sort 0:09:50.440 --> 0:09:55.200 of touch base with your colleagues, how are people generally 0:09:55.240 --> 0:09:58.600 doing them at all this so many months in Well, 0:09:58.720 --> 0:10:02.599 there's two very opposite ends of the spectrum. Um, the 0:10:03.600 --> 0:10:08.760 frontline position is working harder than they've ever worked in 0:10:08.800 --> 0:10:13.199 their life. Um, they're exhausted. Many of them have become ill, 0:10:13.679 --> 0:10:16.840 and we've even had some deaths of physicians that are 0:10:16.880 --> 0:10:20.760 taking care of COVID nineteen patients. But at the other end, 0:10:21.480 --> 0:10:25.520 physicians in outpatient medicine and their private practice or having 0:10:25.559 --> 0:10:28.480 a hard time to office is open because people are 0:10:28.480 --> 0:10:30.480 afraid to go to the doctor and some procedures have 0:10:30.600 --> 0:10:33.640 been shut down. So, UM, we're helping them as best 0:10:33.679 --> 0:10:37.679 as we can. With um, you know, advice on how 0:10:37.720 --> 0:10:41.640 to keep your practice going. Telemedicine has been a fantastic advance, 0:10:41.760 --> 0:10:45.679 but uh, there's no question the physician community needs a 0:10:45.679 --> 0:10:48.880 lot of support in many different ways right now. Well, 0:10:48.960 --> 0:10:51.880 we're grateful for you to for spending some time with 0:10:51.960 --> 0:10:54.920 us who really appreciate it. Uh, and congratulations again on 0:10:55.000 --> 0:10:57.200 your new role. It's a big deal. Dr Susan Bailey, 0:10:57.440 --> 0:11:00.000 President of the American Medical Association, joining us on the 0:11:00.040 --> 0:11:02.480 phone from Fort Worth, Texas, Carol, and a big year 0:11:02.520 --> 0:11:03.960 to have to come into it and to step into 0:11:04.040 --> 0:11:07.040 these uh, you know, these shoes in this position specifically, 0:11:07.320 --> 0:11:10.360 and we should facing the medical community. Her predecessor, Dr 0:11:10.400 --> 0:11:12.720 Patrice Harris was very good to us amid all of 0:11:12.760 --> 0:11:14.960 this as well, so our thanks to her as well, 0:11:15.000 --> 0:11:17.640 and congratulations for a successful tenure. There. You are listening 0:11:17.679 --> 0:11:20.680 to Bloomberg Business Week. Well, I have to say I 0:11:20.679 --> 0:11:22.360 think I can speak for you, Carol Mass when I 0:11:22.400 --> 0:11:24.840 say this, we always get a little bit of a 0:11:24.880 --> 0:11:27.120 sneak sneak peek of what the cover story is going 0:11:27.160 --> 0:11:29.480 to be. Joel Webber, you know, just for our planning 0:11:29.520 --> 0:11:31.439 and because we want to know. He gives us a 0:11:31.440 --> 0:11:34.800 little tip and Uh, we're both so excited when this 0:11:34.960 --> 0:11:37.040 ended up being the story, in part because we love 0:11:37.080 --> 0:11:40.160 the subject, in part because we love the writers. It's 0:11:40.200 --> 0:11:42.400 a terrific one. It's all about Ben and Jerry's and 0:11:42.520 --> 0:11:46.520 Unilever and Ben and Jury's at this moment that it 0:11:46.559 --> 0:11:49.240 feels like it was made for So let's get into it. 0:11:49.320 --> 0:11:52.120 Jordan Holman is with us, as I mentioned, retail reporter 0:11:52.120 --> 0:11:54.319 for Bloomberg on the phone in New York City. Joel Webber, 0:11:54.360 --> 0:11:57.760 the editor of the magazine. He joins us from Massachusetts. 0:11:57.760 --> 0:12:01.440 So Joel t this one up for us. Uh. Well, 0:12:01.480 --> 0:12:05.920 you know, within the last month UM as Black Lives 0:12:05.920 --> 0:12:09.240 Matter uh started getting a ton of attention and the 0:12:09.280 --> 0:12:12.800 protests took off. You know, the first company that actually 0:12:12.840 --> 0:12:15.520 was out of the gate with a response and it 0:12:15.679 --> 0:12:18.960 literally just made all of us go WHOA, that was 0:12:19.000 --> 0:12:21.920 a really amazing move was Ben and Jerry's. And Ben 0:12:21.920 --> 0:12:24.080 and Jerry's you know, it wasn't the first time they've 0:12:24.120 --> 0:12:26.760 done this. It is actually really part of the company's 0:12:26.880 --> 0:12:31.200 d n a UM, the corporate activism, the social justice. 0:12:31.840 --> 0:12:34.120 This is just almost the latest chapter of it. And 0:12:34.160 --> 0:12:37.320 when we saw that, UM, Jordan actually was like she 0:12:37.440 --> 0:12:40.199 was the one that said all that and I was like, Okay, 0:12:40.200 --> 0:12:41.960 why don't you turn around and write that story for us? 0:12:42.440 --> 0:12:46.440 And that was uh yeah, and that was um we 0:12:46.480 --> 0:12:49.040 pulled in Thomas Buckley, who knows the union leaver sign 0:12:49.080 --> 0:12:51.160 of it, but that really became the expression of this. 0:12:51.600 --> 0:12:53.920 So Jordan's you know this, this company has been, you know, 0:12:54.080 --> 0:12:57.600 really known for this from from day one. I think 0:12:57.640 --> 0:12:59.640 the thing that you you were able to really kind 0:12:59.640 --> 0:13:02.360 of bring to bear in this is like so many 0:13:02.360 --> 0:13:05.520 other companies fail when they try and do this. What 0:13:05.679 --> 0:13:10.280 makes Binn and Jerry's stand out? Yeah, Ben and Jerry's 0:13:10.480 --> 0:13:13.760 their statement just really hit you know, they said dismantled 0:13:13.760 --> 0:13:16.360 white supremacy and what we were seeing with other statements 0:13:16.400 --> 0:13:18.960 because you know, black lives matter and we support the community. 0:13:19.400 --> 0:13:21.320 But what makes them stand now is that they have 0:13:21.360 --> 0:13:25.559 a dedicated team that thinks about these issues every single day. 0:13:25.640 --> 0:13:28.160 So when a tragic incident like the killing of George 0:13:28.200 --> 0:13:31.120 Floyda happens, it's not they don't have to scramble to 0:13:31.120 --> 0:13:34.640 get the resources or to think through this. They've educated themselves, 0:13:34.679 --> 0:13:38.400 they've done the homework that've connected with partners like Color Change, 0:13:38.440 --> 0:13:43.439 incp To get the wording right. Well, and what's fascinating 0:13:43.480 --> 0:13:46.520 to Jordan's is it is in such contrast to so 0:13:46.600 --> 0:13:51.040 many other franchises, institutions, and companies that really fumbled it. 0:13:52.880 --> 0:13:55.880 Absolutely Yes, um, So Ben and Jerry's has for the 0:13:55.920 --> 0:13:58.400 past few years said we're going to focus on criminal 0:13:58.480 --> 0:14:02.000 justice reform. We want to understand how structural racism in 0:14:02.000 --> 0:14:06.080 the US works. And you don't always get that intensity 0:14:06.280 --> 0:14:09.480 from other corporations and and honing in on that. And 0:14:09.559 --> 0:14:12.240 one thing that Thomas and I learned from reporting on 0:14:12.280 --> 0:14:15.440 this is that when they when Ben and Jerry's launch 0:14:15.480 --> 0:14:18.800 as a campaign, don't spend a year thinking about the 0:14:18.840 --> 0:14:22.240 topic um, thinking about criminal justice, how they can work 0:14:22.240 --> 0:14:25.640 with partners, how they can communicate that to customers who 0:14:25.720 --> 0:14:29.520 might not understand what structural racism is or the school 0:14:29.520 --> 0:14:33.560 to prison pipeline. And so that's why when a statement 0:14:33.600 --> 0:14:38.480 from them is released, it really hits and resonates with people. Well, 0:14:38.480 --> 0:14:41.520 what's interesting, Jordan is we had a Bishop TD jakeson 0:14:41.560 --> 0:14:43.640 our show yesterday and one of the things that he 0:14:43.920 --> 0:14:46.640 said that I really took away and I think Carol 0:14:46.720 --> 0:14:49.520 did too, was this notion of exactly what you're talking about. 0:14:49.560 --> 0:14:52.320 This intentionality, and he basically said he was like, look 0:14:52.440 --> 0:14:56.440 and he was being a sirius. He said, slavery was intentional, 0:14:56.560 --> 0:14:59.840 Jim Crow was intentional. Diversity and inclusion have to be 0:15:00.040 --> 0:15:04.120 intentional as well. But it's not always easy, I think, 0:15:04.480 --> 0:15:07.800 to do that. And yet it is. And and I 0:15:08.440 --> 0:15:10.720 that I'm joking a little bit when I say this, 0:15:10.960 --> 0:15:13.480 it's baked in in many ways. I mean it's there 0:15:13.520 --> 0:15:17.040 on the package, it's there in the company. And that 0:15:17.080 --> 0:15:20.760 goes back to the founders, right. Yeah, So Ben and 0:15:20.840 --> 0:15:23.640 Jerry's has been around since the late seventies and Ben 0:15:23.640 --> 0:15:26.920 Cohen and Jared greensfell as the founders. They've always spoken 0:15:27.000 --> 0:15:31.400 up on issues that they think matter. And what's changed, um, 0:15:31.520 --> 0:15:34.800 is that you know, it's become more structured this team. 0:15:34.880 --> 0:15:36.720 So when they want to speak out on if it's 0:15:36.760 --> 0:15:40.000 climate change or if it's a structural racism like we're 0:15:40.000 --> 0:15:43.960 talking about, or whatever issue, they're being very intentional about 0:15:43.960 --> 0:15:45.640 what they want to say and how they say it. 0:15:46.120 --> 0:15:48.760 And Um. For this story, we talked to the executive 0:15:48.760 --> 0:15:51.840 director of Color Change for Sean Robinson, who speaks to 0:15:51.920 --> 0:15:55.120 corporations all of the time. But he said, what that's 0:15:55.120 --> 0:15:57.360 been in Jerry's apart is that they actually put that 0:15:57.480 --> 0:15:59.720 energy the time and he even joked, you know, the 0:15:59.720 --> 0:16:02.760 flow ever behind Black Lives Matter and the things that 0:16:02.840 --> 0:16:08.240 they care about. Jordan's Another element that I want to 0:16:08.280 --> 0:16:11.440 bring in here is how uh you know Ben and 0:16:11.480 --> 0:16:17.840 Jerry's owned by Unilever. Now Unilever this massive portfolio of 0:16:18.040 --> 0:16:22.840 companies um and not always as as sort of woke 0:16:23.160 --> 0:16:25.640 as Ben and Jerry's is, right, Like, this is also 0:16:25.680 --> 0:16:29.040 the company that does Uncle Ben's rice and j know 0:16:29.640 --> 0:16:32.360 has skin whitening brands in Asia that it's also trying 0:16:32.360 --> 0:16:34.360 to figure out what it's going to do what as 0:16:34.560 --> 0:16:37.840 Unilever as a company learned from you know, having been 0:16:37.920 --> 0:16:42.840 and Jerry's as part of sort of it its portfolio. Yeah, 0:16:42.880 --> 0:16:46.320 this goes back to Jason's earlier point about the founders. 0:16:46.320 --> 0:16:49.280 So when Ben and Jerry's was being acquired by Unilever, 0:16:49.720 --> 0:16:53.440 the founders really fought for that independence over the social mission, 0:16:53.760 --> 0:16:56.080 that element that even though they're going to be owned 0:16:56.080 --> 0:16:58.560 by this conglomerate, they're going to still have this independent 0:16:58.600 --> 0:17:01.520 board to push the issues they care about, and that 0:17:02.240 --> 0:17:05.280 has trickled down to other brands. Um, you you start 0:17:05.359 --> 0:17:08.119 hearing you know, back earlier this month they said, hey, 0:17:08.119 --> 0:17:11.520 we're gonna hold advertise them on Facebook and Instagram, and 0:17:11.840 --> 0:17:15.720 Unilever followed them, and other brands within Unilever followed that. 0:17:16.000 --> 0:17:20.080 Uh that intentionality. So yeah, it starts with Ben and Jerry's, 0:17:20.080 --> 0:17:22.960 but they definitely have influence over this huge brand that 0:17:23.160 --> 0:17:26.400 they are um a part of. And that's what's another 0:17:26.440 --> 0:17:29.080 thing I'll just point out there. Yeah, sorry, the other 0:17:29.080 --> 0:17:31.520 thing I just point out here. You know, I find 0:17:31.520 --> 0:17:35.640 this part fascinating. Unilever has a huge ice cream portfolio, 0:17:36.160 --> 0:17:39.240 um like Ben and Jerry's is one of many actually 0:17:39.280 --> 0:17:40.879 within that, which is I just found that to be 0:17:40.920 --> 0:17:44.000 an interesting factor. It is like they clearly like the 0:17:44.040 --> 0:17:53.120 ice cream business absolutely well. I mean it's an interesting 0:17:53.400 --> 0:17:55.480 it's an interesting point to point out, Carol, And I mean, 0:17:55.600 --> 0:17:57.439 and you've spent some time care with it with the 0:17:57.520 --> 0:18:01.560 union Unilever CEO, and I mean he's been thinking about 0:18:01.560 --> 0:18:04.159 these things. I think, Yeah, I I do think he 0:18:04.200 --> 0:18:06.800 thinks a lot about this. And I think Jordan, you 0:18:06.960 --> 0:18:08.880 you got you make a good point about the influence 0:18:08.880 --> 0:18:11.840 that Ben and Jerry's head more broadly right on this huge, 0:18:12.000 --> 0:18:14.040 massive company. Because I bet that there have been some 0:18:14.080 --> 0:18:18.000 interesting internal debates. Just got about thirty seconds here. Yeah, 0:18:18.040 --> 0:18:20.720 I mean, going to your point. The CEO of UNI 0:18:20.800 --> 0:18:23.560 Leaverer said that UM he would consider selling off brands 0:18:23.560 --> 0:18:27.440 that couldn't operate in a way that UM improved society. 0:18:27.600 --> 0:18:29.760 That is a clear example of how Ben and Jerry's 0:18:29.760 --> 0:18:32.280 has steeped into the culture of UM the bigger companies 0:18:32.320 --> 0:18:35.120 that they're part of. Yeah, that's amazing. All right, Well 0:18:35.160 --> 0:18:39.400 it's a musterd for sure. Jordan's Holman, retail reporter for Bloomberg, 0:18:39.520 --> 0:18:42.080 co author of this week's cover story all about Ben 0:18:42.080 --> 0:18:44.119 and Jerry. She joined us from New York City. Joel Webber, 0:18:44.320 --> 0:18:47.080 the editor of the magazine, he joined from Massachusetts. And 0:18:47.160 --> 0:18:50.520 I have to imagine, Carol, it's like the swagger that 0:18:50.560 --> 0:18:53.440 the Ben and Jerry's guys have, like literally and figuratively 0:18:53.600 --> 0:18:56.240 within this company have been like you've got to have 0:18:56.359 --> 0:19:00.119 all these other brand leaders being like, I just are 0:19:00.160 --> 0:19:02.479 we get to do it? I want to do it. Well, 0:19:02.480 --> 0:19:04.520 it's a fun part in the story too, that just 0:19:04.520 --> 0:19:06.840 talks about what they had to do to negotiate you 0:19:07.040 --> 0:19:10.200 leave buying Ben and Jerry. So all right, check that out. 0:19:10.840 --> 0:19:14.480 This is Bloomberg Business Week with Carol Masser and Jason 0:19:14.560 --> 0:19:18.400 Kelly on Bloomberg Radio. All right, so one of our 0:19:18.600 --> 0:19:21.240 most read stories, Infected is the most read story on 0:19:21.240 --> 0:19:23.080 the Bloomberg in the past eight hours, has to be 0:19:23.119 --> 0:19:27.240 about China vowing retaliation after the US force the closure 0:19:27.240 --> 0:19:30.120 of its Houston consulate. Well. US Secretary of State Mike 0:19:30.119 --> 0:19:33.800 Pompeo Jason held a joint press conference earlier today with 0:19:33.840 --> 0:19:37.720 the Danish Force Minister, and they did this in Denmark. 0:19:37.840 --> 0:19:42.760 Pompeo discussing the US abruptly ordering China to close that consulate. 0:19:43.720 --> 0:19:46.880 We're setting out clear expectations for how the Chinese Communist 0:19:46.920 --> 0:19:49.960 Party is going to behave and when they don't, we're 0:19:49.960 --> 0:19:53.439 going to take actions that protect the American people. And 0:19:53.480 --> 0:19:57.560 that is Secretary of State Mike Pompeo speaking earlier today 0:19:57.640 --> 0:20:02.680 in Denmark. Let's understand and what this move means down 0:20:02.760 --> 0:20:05.200 in Houston, and for that, we go to New Hampshire 0:20:05.200 --> 0:20:07.800 and we check in with Andy Brown, the editorial director 0:20:07.840 --> 0:20:11.439 for Bloomberg New Economy, absolutely our number one go to 0:20:11.600 --> 0:20:15.000 voice for all things China. He lived there, he worked there. 0:20:15.119 --> 0:20:18.720 He's in charge of understanding this U S China relationship 0:20:18.760 --> 0:20:22.320 in the global new economy for Bloomberg. So we're so 0:20:22.480 --> 0:20:25.640 fortunate he was our first call when we try out 0:20:25.640 --> 0:20:29.160 we're trying to figure out what's going on here. So Andy, 0:20:29.200 --> 0:20:30.879 this was a headline that I think grabbed all of 0:20:30.960 --> 0:20:35.000 us this morning only because it seems surprising. What does 0:20:35.040 --> 0:20:40.400 it mean? Look, this is this is a major escalation. 0:20:41.160 --> 0:20:45.520 I mean, we're moving towards a pretty serious diplomatic rupture. Um. 0:20:46.000 --> 0:20:48.320 And you have to put this in the context of 0:20:48.520 --> 0:20:52.720 US China relations, which really at a level, at a 0:20:52.760 --> 0:20:57.040 low that we haven't seen since relations were established in 0:20:57.040 --> 0:21:00.680 in the nine in the nineteen seventies. Um. It's hard 0:21:00.800 --> 0:21:03.480 also not to look at this. I mean, I think 0:21:03.520 --> 0:21:06.400 you have to look at this, uh, in the context 0:21:06.480 --> 0:21:10.760 also of of domestic US politics. This is Donald Trump 0:21:11.280 --> 0:21:17.760 lashing out, UM in any way he can now at China. UM. 0:21:17.840 --> 0:21:21.680 You know this, this is you You you can't see 0:21:21.680 --> 0:21:23.639 this outside the context of of of sort of a 0:21:23.720 --> 0:21:27.160 distraction from you know, the abysmal job that the White 0:21:27.200 --> 0:21:32.320 House is doing against in the battle against coronavirus. UM. 0:21:32.359 --> 0:21:35.280 It's part of of of a wider sort of anti 0:21:35.440 --> 0:21:38.440 China hysteria, and we're going to see a lot more 0:21:38.480 --> 0:21:41.199 of this, um. You know, in the run up to 0:21:41.280 --> 0:21:45.080 the election in November. Yeah, I do wonder Andy, if 0:21:45.480 --> 0:21:52.119 Donald Trump wasn't facing re election, would we see this escalation? Um? 0:21:52.600 --> 0:21:55.840 You know, you you would, you would see rising tensions. 0:21:55.960 --> 0:22:00.080 But I mean these are very concrete actions, and know 0:22:00.119 --> 0:22:02.679 the escalation you can you can see it quite clearly. 0:22:02.680 --> 0:22:06.840 I mean, you had this tip Fatat expulsion of journalists. UM. 0:22:06.880 --> 0:22:10.879 You know, you've you've had these sanctions against Chinese officials, 0:22:10.920 --> 0:22:14.120 including very senior Chinese officials, a member of the Chinese 0:22:14.119 --> 0:22:19.480 polit bureau. You had this trial balloon UM last week, UM, 0:22:19.560 --> 0:22:22.760 you know where the New York Times reports that the 0:22:22.880 --> 0:22:25.920 United States the White House is considering banning all ninety 0:22:26.000 --> 0:22:30.520 two million members of the Chinese Communist Party UM from 0:22:30.560 --> 0:22:33.200 from coming to the US. Uh. You know, which would 0:22:33.240 --> 0:22:37.480 pretty much put an end to trade negotiations. UM. It 0:22:37.480 --> 0:22:41.439 would certainly stop President Hi jimping from coming to to 0:22:41.480 --> 0:22:45.560 the United States. UM, and it would severely disrupt both 0:22:45.600 --> 0:22:50.320 academic exchanges and diplomatic dialogue. So you know, you're just 0:22:50.400 --> 0:22:53.719 you're just seeing an escalation, and and this is clearly, 0:22:53.880 --> 0:22:58.720