Speaker 1: This is Bloomberg Business Week. I'm Carol Masser and I'm
Speaker 1: Jason Kelly. We're right here every day bringing you the
Speaker 1: latest news from the world's of business and finance, plus technology, politics, economics,
Speaker 1: all harnessing the power of Business Week reporters and editors.
Speaker 1: And of course Carol that's part of a team of
Speaker 1: twenty seven hundred journalists and analysts more than a hundred
Speaker 1: and twenty countries and Jason. You can download Bloomberg Business
Speaker 1: Week on iTunes, SoundCloud, bl Bloomberg dot com. You can
Speaker 1: also listen to our radio show at two pm Eastern
Speaker 1: on Bloomberg Radio every weekday, or watch us on YouTube
Speaker 1: by searching Bloomberg Global News. Our next guest took over
Speaker 1: as president of the a m A, the American Medical Association,
Speaker 1: just last month. Dr Susan Bailey is an allergist and immunologist,
Speaker 1: the one seventy president of the a m A. She
Speaker 1: came to the job amid the pandemic and a and
Speaker 1: an inauguration. I should say that was also had to
Speaker 1: be done virtually because of the situation. She joins us
Speaker 1: right now on the phone from Fort Worth, Texas. Dr
Speaker 1: Bailey um SO delighted to have you here on Bloomberg Radio.
Speaker 1: First of all, how are you, congratulations and tell us
Speaker 1: about life in Texas right now. Well, thank you so
Speaker 1: much for the congratulations and for having me on your show.
Speaker 1: Aside from being very hot in Texas, UM, the coronavirus
Speaker 1: is a very hot as well. UM. Texas is one
Speaker 1: of the many hot spots in the country for the
Speaker 1: virus and UM. Many of our hospitals UM are full
Speaker 1: UM and although we are seeing some little trends that
Speaker 1: we may be seeing a downward slide in cases, which
Speaker 1: I think is because of the mask mandates are governor
Speaker 1: introduced earlier in the month. Well, let's talk about that,
Speaker 1: Dr Bailey, as a physician and as someone who you
Speaker 1: and your colleagues have been tracking this so closely. I
Speaker 1: feel like some local and state and even federal leaders
Speaker 1: are getting religion maybe a little belatedly, on on the
Speaker 1: mask wearing. What effect will that have? I mean, is
Speaker 1: this the sort of thing that could really, as they say,
Speaker 1: sort of arrest this and really changed the trajectory. Now
Speaker 1: that it does feel like we're all getting on board
Speaker 1: with this, UM, wearing a mask should not be a
Speaker 1: political statement. You know that being said, leadership UH and
Speaker 1: UM symbolism is very important in society and UM. The
Speaker 1: American Medical Association, the American Hospital Association, and American Nurses
Speaker 1: Association recently released a statement that we are all in
Speaker 1: agreement that everyone needs to take the simple steps that
Speaker 1: we know will stop the spread of the virus by
Speaker 1: wearing masks, maintaining physical distancing and washing hands. UM. We
Speaker 1: agree with the CDC that everybody in the country ought
Speaker 1: to be wearing a mask. I have to say, any
Speaker 1: of the experiences and interactions I've had, you know, with
Speaker 1: the medical community, certainly as as certainly the New York
Speaker 1: Metro has started to open up and reopen up, you know, UM,
Speaker 1: hospitals and medical centers for kind of routine procedures. You know, doctors,
Speaker 1: everybody's in masks like there's it's just the way of life,
Speaker 1: and they understand that that's just the way it has
Speaker 1: to be to keep everybody safe. Well, I think it's
Speaker 1: important to remember that back to business doesn't mean business
Speaker 1: as usual. I believe that we're going to have to
Speaker 1: observe our mask wearing, physical distancing, and hand washing for
Speaker 1: the indefinite future. UM. We now have good scientific evidence
Speaker 1: to show that mask wearing does decrease the transmission of
Speaker 1: the virus. It protects the wearer, it protects the people
Speaker 1: that are near the wearer, and UM, some have tried
Speaker 1: to make a controversy or a conspiracy out of changing
Speaker 1: recommendations over time. You know, nothing could be further from
Speaker 1: the truth. And the beginning of the pandemic, we did
Speaker 1: not realize how much asymptomatic spread there was out there,
Speaker 1: and we didn't think that wearing a mask would make
Speaker 1: much difference, and we wanted to make sure that there
Speaker 1: were masks available for health care personnel that we're really
Speaker 1: getting heavy, heavy exposure to the virus. Now that we
Speaker 1: know that the virus is practically everywhere, UM, we do
Speaker 1: think that masks for everyone are appropriate, even the cloth
Speaker 1: mask UM, and encourage everybody to wear them. So Dr
Speaker 1: Bailey talked to us about, well, we'll talk about vaccines
Speaker 1: in a little while, but I wanted to talk to
Speaker 1: you about treatments because I feel like that's one of
Speaker 1: the things we've been talking a little bit more about
Speaker 1: this week, Carol and I have on this program is
Speaker 1: sort of what's out there right now to treat this
Speaker 1: disease because we know that a vaccine is months away.
Speaker 1: Best case. Uh, what are you seeing in terms of
Speaker 1: treatments that are working well? Unfortunately, the treatment side of
Speaker 1: the equation is still very very sparse. Um. Everyone has
Speaker 1: likely heard of rim dissevere um anti viral medication, but
Speaker 1: that's being reserved for patients in the hospital who are
Speaker 1: extremely ill. Um It may work a little bit better
Speaker 1: earlier in the illness, but um, that's going to be
Speaker 1: limited by the amount of medication that's available. Um. There's
Speaker 1: been some reports out of Great Britain that adding a
Speaker 1: steroid um for severely ill patients can be very helpful.
Speaker 1: But other than that, the only treatment that we have
Speaker 1: really is prevention. Uh. There are a number of drugs
Speaker 1: and the pipeline monoclonal antibodies and other therapeutics that we
Speaker 1: hope will um, you know, be able to be used
Speaker 1: to treat COVID nineteen at earlier stages, but those are
Speaker 1: all um still in the planning phase. Right now, you
Speaker 1: are listening to Bloomberg Business Week. Let's get back to
Speaker 1: our conversation with Dr Susan Bailey, president of the American
Speaker 1: Medical Association, newly minted newly inaugurated. She joined us on
Speaker 1: the phone from Fort Worth, and we just heard an
Speaker 1: update from our friends over John's Hopkins via Charlie Pellett
Speaker 1: about the state of the vaccine research. Dr Bailey, I
Speaker 1: feel like the last week or so, we're just getting
Speaker 1: these little headlines here and there, especially from an investor perspective,
Speaker 1: that makes people a little more optimistic. Is that optimism misplaced?
Speaker 1: What's the realistic view on a vaccine at this point? Well,
Speaker 1: it is nice to get anything that closely resembles good
Speaker 1: news when we're talking about COVID nineteen UM, but it
Speaker 1: I cautioned that it is very very early. UM. It's
Speaker 1: wonderful that the vaccines that we're seeing now uh gosha.
Speaker 1: There are three that are the closest to UM actually
Speaker 1: being produced for the public, but there's over a dozen
Speaker 1: that are being studied. We think that they can they're immunogenic,
Speaker 1: which means it can give people antibodies to the disease.
Speaker 1: But the really important point, the reason you get a
Speaker 1: vaccine in the first places, it does it keep a
Speaker 1: per from catching the disease when they're exposed to it,
Speaker 1: And we don't know that yet. COVID nineteen is kind
Speaker 1: of tricky. When people catch it and develop their own
Speaker 1: natural antibodies. We're looking, we're saying they don't last very long,
Speaker 1: and so will that happen with a vaccine. I think
Speaker 1: time will tell them. That's why Phase three studies are
Speaker 1: so important. So I don't know, nobody has a crystal ball.
Speaker 1: Dr Bailey and I understand that. And we're learning so
Speaker 1: much about this virus and treatments today right as we go.
Speaker 1: So how do you see potentially the next three to
Speaker 1: six months, what's our world look like. Well, I think
Speaker 1: we're all this is going to look very similar to
Speaker 1: what it looks like now. I think we're going to
Speaker 1: have to put our priority on UM public health measures
Speaker 1: like wearing your mask, keeping your hands clean, physical distancing
Speaker 1: UM opening up very carefully and very slowly. UM it will.
Speaker 1: I'll be real surprised if we have a vaccine before
Speaker 1: the end of the calendar year that's been shown to
Speaker 1: be UM safe and effective. Vaccines are safe and effective,
Speaker 1: but we've got to make sure they work first. UM.
Speaker 1: I think that hopefully we'll see some slowing down of
Speaker 1: the number of cases if folks, you know, do their
Speaker 1: good old basic measures but um, I think we're still
Speaker 1: going to kind of be in a oh wait and
Speaker 1: see kind of position to see how things pan out
Speaker 1: with vaccines. But that meantime, can I just have to
Speaker 1: know if if if vaccines, if vaccines are not the
Speaker 1: cure all though, right, we still don't know then, you know,
Speaker 1: I do wonder about what kind of world we live in. Well,
Speaker 1: I'm hoping they'll be you know, the answer eventually. We
Speaker 1: just don't know how quick that's going to be. We
Speaker 1: don't know if you're going to need a booster shot.
Speaker 1: We don't know if you're going to need one every
Speaker 1: year like you do your flu shot, which reminds me
Speaker 1: we are really pushing hard for everybody to get their
Speaker 1: flu shot this year, um because of the pandemic UM. Hospitals,
Speaker 1: doctor's offices are going to be busy enough. Believe it
Speaker 1: or not, you can catch the flu and COVID nineteen
Speaker 1: at the same time, which, oh gosh, you're really really sick.
Speaker 1: So we're encouraging everyone to get their flu shot and
Speaker 1: do a little pre planning because it may not be
Speaker 1: as easy to get. There's going to be plenty of
Speaker 1: vaccine available, but like your employer may not offer it anymore.
Speaker 1: You're it may not be quite as convenient to get one,
Speaker 1: but they certainly will be out there, and we encourage
Speaker 1: everybody over the age of six months to get a
Speaker 1: flu shot this year. So dry before we let you go,
Speaker 1: you know, I have to ask you sort of in
Speaker 1: in this new position. You know, you have this vast membership,
Speaker 1: and I think we're all worried a little bit about
Speaker 1: doctors out there who have been on the front lines.
Speaker 1: How is it going, sort of generally as you sort
Speaker 1: of touch base with your colleagues, how are people generally
Speaker 1: doing them at all this so many months in Well,
Speaker 1: there's two very opposite ends of the spectrum. Um, the
Speaker 1: frontline position is working harder than they've ever worked in
Speaker 1: their life. Um, they're exhausted. Many of them have become ill,
Speaker 1: and we've even had some deaths of physicians that are
Speaker 1: taking care of COVID nineteen patients. But at the other end,
Speaker 1: physicians in outpatient medicine and their private practice or having
Speaker 1: a hard time to office is open because people are
Speaker 1: afraid to go to the doctor and some procedures have
Speaker 1: been shut down. So, UM, we're helping them as best
Speaker 1: as we can. With um, you know, advice on how
Speaker 1: to keep your practice going. Telemedicine has been a fantastic advance,
Speaker 1: but uh, there's no question the physician community needs a
Speaker 1: lot of support in many different ways right now. Well,
Speaker 1: we're grateful for you to for spending some time with
Speaker 1: us who really appreciate it. Uh, and congratulations again on
Speaker 1: your new role. It's a big deal. Dr Susan Bailey,
Speaker 1: President of the American Medical Association, joining us on the
Speaker 1: phone from Fort Worth, Texas, Carol, and a big year
Speaker 1: to have to come into it and to step into
Speaker 1: these uh, you know, these shoes in this position specifically,
Speaker 1: and we should facing the medical community. Her predecessor, Dr
Speaker 1: Patrice Harris was very good to us amid all of
Speaker 1: this as well, so our thanks to her as well,
Speaker 1: and congratulations for a successful tenure. There. You are listening
Speaker 1: to Bloomberg Business Week. Well, I have to say I
Speaker 1: think I can speak for you, Carol Mass when I
Speaker 1: say this, we always get a little bit of a
Speaker 1: sneak sneak peek of what the cover story is going
Speaker 1: to be. Joel Webber, you know, just for our planning
Speaker 1: and because we want to know. He gives us a
Speaker 1: little tip and Uh, we're both so excited when this
Speaker 1: ended up being the story, in part because we love
Speaker 1: the subject, in part because we love the writers. It's
Speaker 1: a terrific one. It's all about Ben and Jerry's and
Speaker 1: Unilever and Ben and Jury's at this moment that it
Speaker 1: feels like it was made for So let's get into it.
Speaker 1: Jordan Holman is with us, as I mentioned, retail reporter
Speaker 1: for Bloomberg on the phone in New York City. Joel Webber,
Speaker 1: the editor of the magazine. He joins us from Massachusetts.
Speaker 1: So Joel t this one up for us. Uh. Well,
Speaker 1: you know, within the last month UM as Black Lives
Speaker 1: Matter uh started getting a ton of attention and the
Speaker 1: protests took off. You know, the first company that actually
Speaker 1: was out of the gate with a response and it
Speaker 1: literally just made all of us go WHOA, that was
Speaker 1: a really amazing move was Ben and Jerry's. And Ben
Speaker 1: and Jerry's you know, it wasn't the first time they've
Speaker 1: done this. It is actually really part of the company's
Speaker 1: d n a UM, the corporate activism, the social justice.
Speaker 1: This is just almost the latest chapter of it. And
Speaker 1: when we saw that, UM, Jordan actually was like she
Speaker 1: was the one that said all that and I was like, Okay,
Speaker 1: why don't you turn around and write that story for us?
Speaker 1: And that was uh yeah, and that was um we
Speaker 1: pulled in Thomas Buckley, who knows the union leaver sign
Speaker 1: of it, but that really became the expression of this.
Speaker 1: So Jordan's you know this, this company has been, you know,
Speaker 1: really known for this from from day one. I think
Speaker 1: the thing that you you were able to really kind
Speaker 1: of bring to bear in this is like so many
Speaker 1: other companies fail when they try and do this. What
Speaker 1: makes Binn and Jerry's stand out? Yeah, Ben and Jerry's
Speaker 1: their statement just really hit you know, they said dismantled
Speaker 1: white supremacy and what we were seeing with other statements
Speaker 1: because you know, black lives matter and we support the community.
Speaker 1: But what makes them stand now is that they have
Speaker 1: a dedicated team that thinks about these issues every single day.
Speaker 1: So when a tragic incident like the killing of George
Speaker 1: Floyda happens, it's not they don't have to scramble to
Speaker 1: get the resources or to think through this. They've educated themselves,
Speaker 1: they've done the homework that've connected with partners like Color Change,
Speaker 1: incp To get the wording right. Well, and what's fascinating
Speaker 1: to Jordan's is it is in such contrast to so
Speaker 1: many other franchises, institutions, and companies that really fumbled it.
Speaker 1: Absolutely Yes, um, So Ben and Jerry's has for the
Speaker 1: past few years said we're going to focus on criminal
Speaker 1: justice reform. We want to understand how structural racism in
Speaker 1: the US works. And you don't always get that intensity
Speaker 1: from other corporations and and honing in on that. And
Speaker 1: one thing that Thomas and I learned from reporting on
Speaker 1: this is that when they when Ben and Jerry's launch
Speaker 1: as a campaign, don't spend a year thinking about the
Speaker 1: topic um, thinking about criminal justice, how they can work
Speaker 1: with partners, how they can communicate that to customers who
Speaker 1: might not understand what structural racism is or the school
Speaker 1: to prison pipeline. And so that's why when a statement
Speaker 1: from them is released, it really hits and resonates with people. Well,
Speaker 1: what's interesting, Jordan is we had a Bishop TD jakeson
Speaker 1: our show yesterday and one of the things that he
Speaker 1: said that I really took away and I think Carol
Speaker 1: did too, was this notion of exactly what you're talking about.
Speaker 1: This intentionality, and he basically said he was like, look
Speaker 1: and he was being a sirius. He said, slavery was intentional,
Speaker 1: Jim Crow was intentional. Diversity and inclusion have to be
Speaker 1: intentional as well. But it's not always easy, I think,
Speaker 1: to do that. And yet it is. And and I
Speaker 1: that I'm joking a little bit when I say this,
Speaker 1: it's baked in in many ways. I mean it's there
Speaker 1: on the package, it's there in the company. And that
Speaker 1: goes back to the founders, right. Yeah, So Ben and
Speaker 1: Jerry's has been around since the late seventies and Ben
Speaker 1: Cohen and Jared greensfell as the founders. They've always spoken
Speaker 1: up on issues that they think matter. And what's changed, um,
Speaker 1: is that you know, it's become more structured this team.
Speaker 1: So when they want to speak out on if it's
Speaker 1: climate change or if it's a structural racism like we're
Speaker 1: talking about, or whatever issue, they're being very intentional about
Speaker 1: what they want to say and how they say it.
Speaker 1: And Um. For this story, we talked to the executive
Speaker 1: director of Color Change for Sean Robinson, who speaks to
Speaker 1: corporations all of the time. But he said, what that's
Speaker 1: been in Jerry's apart is that they actually put that
Speaker 1: energy the time and he even joked, you know, the
Speaker 1: flow ever behind Black Lives Matter and the things that
Speaker 1: they care about. Jordan's Another element that I want to
Speaker 1: bring in here is how uh you know Ben and
Speaker 1: Jerry's owned by Unilever. Now Unilever this massive portfolio of
Speaker 1: companies um and not always as as sort of woke
Speaker 1: as Ben and Jerry's is, right, Like, this is also
Speaker 1: the company that does Uncle Ben's rice and j know
Speaker 1: has skin whitening brands in Asia that it's also trying
Speaker 1: to figure out what it's going to do what as
Speaker 1: Unilever as a company learned from you know, having been
Speaker 1: and Jerry's as part of sort of it its portfolio. Yeah,
Speaker 1: this goes back to Jason's earlier point about the founders.
Speaker 1: So when Ben and Jerry's was being acquired by Unilever,
Speaker 1: the founders really fought for that independence over the social mission,
Speaker 1: that element that even though they're going to be owned
Speaker 1: by this conglomerate, they're going to still have this independent
Speaker 1: board to push the issues they care about, and that
Speaker 1: has trickled down to other brands. Um, you you start
Speaker 1: hearing you know, back earlier this month they said, hey,
Speaker 1: we're gonna hold advertise them on Facebook and Instagram, and
Speaker 1: Unilever followed them, and other brands within Unilever followed that.
Speaker 1: Uh that intentionality. So yeah, it starts with Ben and Jerry's,
Speaker 1: but they definitely have influence over this huge brand that
Speaker 1: they are um a part of. And that's what's another
Speaker 1: thing I'll just point out there. Yeah, sorry, the other
Speaker 1: thing I just point out here. You know, I find
Speaker 1: this part fascinating. Unilever has a huge ice cream portfolio,
Speaker 1: um like Ben and Jerry's is one of many actually
Speaker 1: within that, which is I just found that to be
Speaker 1: an interesting factor. It is like they clearly like the
Speaker 1: ice cream business absolutely well. I mean it's an interesting
Speaker 1: it's an interesting point to point out, Carol, And I mean,
Speaker 1: and you've spent some time care with it with the
Speaker 1: union Unilever CEO, and I mean he's been thinking about
Speaker 1: these things. I think, Yeah, I I do think he
Speaker 1: thinks a lot about this. And I think Jordan, you
Speaker 1: you got you make a good point about the influence
Speaker 1: that Ben and Jerry's head more broadly right on this huge,
Speaker 1: massive company. Because I bet that there have been some
Speaker 1: interesting internal debates. Just got about thirty seconds here. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean, going to your point. The CEO of UNI
Speaker 1: Leaverer said that UM he would consider selling off brands
Speaker 1: that couldn't operate in a way that UM improved society.
Speaker 1: That is a clear example of how Ben and Jerry's
Speaker 1: has steeped into the culture of UM the bigger companies
Speaker 1: that they're part of. Yeah, that's amazing. All right, Well
Speaker 1: it's a musterd for sure. Jordan's Holman, retail reporter for Bloomberg,
Speaker 1: co author of this week's cover story all about Ben
Speaker 1: and Jerry. She joined us from New York City. Joel Webber,
Speaker 1: the editor of the magazine, he joined from Massachusetts. And
Speaker 1: I have to imagine, Carol, it's like the swagger that
Speaker 1: the Ben and Jerry's guys have, like literally and figuratively
Speaker 1: within this company have been like you've got to have
Speaker 1: all these other brand leaders being like, I just are
Speaker 1: we get to do it? I want to do it. Well,
Speaker 1: it's a fun part in the story too, that just
Speaker 1: talks about what they had to do to negotiate you
Speaker 1: leave buying Ben and Jerry. So all right, check that out.
Speaker 1: This is Bloomberg Business Week with Carol Masser and Jason
Speaker 1: Kelly on Bloomberg Radio. All right, so one of our
Speaker 1: most read stories, Infected is the most read story on
Speaker 1: the Bloomberg in the past eight hours, has to be
Speaker 1: about China vowing retaliation after the US force the closure
Speaker 1: of its Houston consulate. Well. US Secretary of State Mike
Speaker 1: Pompeo Jason held a joint press conference earlier today with
Speaker 1: the Danish Force Minister, and they did this in Denmark.
Speaker 1: Pompeo discussing the US abruptly ordering China to close that consulate.
Speaker 1: We're setting out clear expectations for how the Chinese Communist
Speaker 1: Party is going to behave and when they don't, we're
Speaker 1: going to take actions that protect the American people. And
Speaker 1: that is Secretary of State Mike Pompeo speaking earlier today
Speaker 1: in Denmark. Let's understand and what this move means down
Speaker 1: in Houston, and for that, we go to New Hampshire
Speaker 1: and we check in with Andy Brown, the editorial director
Speaker 1: for Bloomberg New Economy, absolutely our number one go to
Speaker 1: voice for all things China. He lived there, he worked there.
Speaker 1: He's in charge of understanding this U S China relationship
Speaker 1: in the global new economy for Bloomberg. So we're so
Speaker 1: fortunate he was our first call when we try out
Speaker 1: we're trying to figure out what's going on here. So Andy,
Speaker 1: this was a headline that I think grabbed all of
Speaker 1: us this morning only because it seems surprising. What does
Speaker 1: it mean? Look, this is this is a major escalation.
Speaker 1: I mean, we're moving towards a pretty serious diplomatic rupture. Um.
Speaker 1: And you have to put this in the context of
Speaker 1: US China relations, which really at a level, at a
Speaker 1: low that we haven't seen since relations were established in
Speaker 1: in the nine in the nineteen seventies. Um. It's hard
Speaker 1: also not to look at this. I mean, I think
Speaker 1: you have to look at this, uh, in the context
Speaker 1: also of of domestic US politics. This is Donald Trump
Speaker 1: lashing out, UM in any way he can now at China. UM.
Speaker 1: You know this, this is you You you can't see
Speaker 1: this outside the context of of of sort of a
Speaker 1: distraction from you know, the abysmal job that the White
Speaker 1: House is doing against in the battle against coronavirus. UM.
Speaker 1: It's part of of of a wider sort of anti
Speaker 1: China hysteria, and we're going to see a lot more
Speaker 1: of this, um. You know, in the run up to
Speaker 1: the election in November. Yeah, I do wonder Andy, if
Speaker 1: Donald Trump wasn't facing re election, would we see this escalation? Um?
Speaker 1: You know, you you would, you would see rising tensions.
Speaker 1: But I mean these are very concrete actions, and know
Speaker 1: the escalation you can you can see it quite clearly.
Speaker 1: I mean, you had this tip Fatat expulsion of journalists. UM.
Speaker 1: You know, you've you've had these sanctions against Chinese officials,
Speaker 1: including very senior Chinese officials, a member of the Chinese
Speaker 1: polit bureau. You had this trial balloon UM last week, UM,
Speaker 1: you know where the New York Times reports that the
Speaker 1: United States the White House is considering banning all ninety
Speaker 1: two million members of the Chinese Communist Party UM from
Speaker 1: from coming to the US. Uh. You know, which would
Speaker 1: pretty much put an end to trade negotiations. UM. It
Speaker 1: would certainly stop President Hi jimping from coming to to
Speaker 1: the United States. UM, and it would severely disrupt both
Speaker 1: academic exchanges and diplomatic dialogue. So you know, you're just
Speaker 1: you're just seeing an escalation, and and this is clearly,
Speaker 1: very clearly the most the most serious action today. You know, Andy,
Speaker 1: I do wonder at And this may be unknowable at
Speaker 1: this moment, but if anyone were to know, it would
Speaker 1: probably be you, because I know you speak to ceo s,
Speaker 1: you speak to academics, and you speak to economists. If
Speaker 1: you're a multinational company and you're you have business in China,
Speaker 1: both selling to the massive consumer base there, maybe doing
Speaker 1: some manufacturing there, what does something like this and these
Speaker 1: continuing political escalations do for your strategy, especially given that
Speaker 1: it is of a piece in some ways, as you
Speaker 1: said at the beginning, with everything that we've been seeing,
Speaker 1: like what's the calculus here for a corporate leader? Well,
Speaker 1: obviously the thing that businesses fear more than anything is uncertainty. Um.
Speaker 1: And this certainly injects a a a huge new um,
Speaker 1: you know. I mean you talked about the the unknown.
Speaker 1: Nobody really knows where this is going. I mean Ray
Speaker 1: Dalio just the other day he wrote a very long,
Speaker 1: eight thousand word posting on on LinkedIn saying that he
Speaker 1: thinks that this trade war could very could possibly lead
Speaker 1: to a shooting war, to a hot war. You know, businesses,
Speaker 1: businesses are looking towards a future of of incredible hostility
Speaker 1: between these the world's two largest economies. And you know,
Speaker 1: all businesses um a worry that eventually they're going to
Speaker 1: have to choose. I mean, if we're if we're moving
Speaker 1: into this bipolar world. Um, you know two technology stacks, UM,
Speaker 1: you know, a run in bead block, a US dollar block, UM,
Speaker 1: you know, to trading systems. I mean that seems to
Speaker 1: be the way the world is moving at the very least.
Speaker 1: I mean as uncertainty. And of course it adds huge
Speaker 1: costs to businesses who have to navigate all this. And
Speaker 1: you're someone who has you know, as Jason said, you
Speaker 1: lived in China. You understand this. I mean, do you
Speaker 1: find it surprising that this is where we are at
Speaker 1: this point? Not? Really, this has been this has been
Speaker 1: building for some time. Um. You know that the decoupling
Speaker 1: has um has been progressing and accelerating. I would say
Speaker 1: under the Shijimping administration, China is now you know, on
Speaker 1: a set on a course of self reliance. It's determined
Speaker 1: that the United States wants to throttle its rise. Um
Speaker 1: you know, and and uh it's looking forward quite actively
Speaker 1: now to preparations for a full on financial confrontation. I
Speaker 1: mean we've seen it on the trade side, we've haven't
Speaker 1: seen it. On the technology side, on the talent side,
Speaker 1: UM and now very senior Chinese division talking publicly about,
Speaker 1: you know, the need to turn the R and B
Speaker 1: into an international currency. We can't rely on the dollar anymore.
Speaker 1: They're talking about the dangers that their own investments in
Speaker 1: the United States space now potentially demands for reparation from
Speaker 1: the United States, UM over the you know, over COVID
Speaker 1: nineteen UM, so that the Chinese, the Chinese are preparing
Speaker 1: for a for a full scale rupture. And this it
Speaker 1: has been building for a while. All right, Well, we're
Speaker 1: so grateful to you for spending some time with this.
Speaker 1: Andy Brown, editorial director for Bloomberg New Economy. Johnny is
Speaker 1: on the phone from New Hampshire timely and on it
Speaker 1: as always, Carol. Yeah, it's it's a huge story. It's
Speaker 1: a remarkable story that will have consequences, certainly on the
Speaker 1: financial world and certainly the business world. We're already seeing it.
Speaker 1: This is Bloomberg Business Week with Carol Masser and Jason
Speaker 1: Kelly on Bloomberg Radio. So in our weekly Bloomberg Green segment,
Speaker 1: there is a story we want to get to. It's
Speaker 1: on how now everyone can make their wallet greener. I
Speaker 1: love the headline on this. Let's get more from Emily Chason.
Speaker 1: She is sustainability editor at Bloomberg News, and she joins
Speaker 1: us on the phone in New York City. Emily, good
Speaker 1: to have you here with us. So what are we
Speaker 1: talking about? Yeah? Good ask you and Carol didn't get
Speaker 1: to talk to you guys always. Um, So what we're
Speaker 1: looking at is sustainable science in your whole wallet. We're
Speaker 1: always talking about sustainable investing, which is about thirty trillion
Speaker 1: in assets, but that's really only available to the wealthiest
Speaker 1: you know, investors out there and impact investors and just
Speaker 1: people who actually have money to invest. But there's a
Speaker 1: whole other group of financial interactions that people have every
Speaker 1: day in their wallets, right and your bank deposits your
Speaker 1: credit cards. Um. And this is sort of a newer
Speaker 1: area in sustainable science where customers can think differently about
Speaker 1: how they're actually making those purchases every day and can
Speaker 1: they make them more sustainably well. And it's interesting because
Speaker 1: I know Carol and I experienced this with our teenagers
Speaker 1: who really are thinking about this on a daily basis.
Speaker 1: I mean, they give me a hard time when I
Speaker 1: don't oh yeah, yea through that. Um, so what do
Speaker 1: we do? How do we do this? How do we
Speaker 1: how do we please our children here? Yeah, it's really
Speaker 1: interesting because people are already conscious when you go into
Speaker 1: a store. Am I buying like a more sustainable meat product?
Speaker 1: Am I buying vegan meat? You know? Am I looking at?
Speaker 1: Is there too much plastic and petroleum in this shampoo bottle? Right?
Speaker 1: That's the kind of thing you have every day. But
Speaker 1: then when you look at your actual deposits and your
Speaker 1: credit cards in your bank account, you have to sort
Speaker 1: of ask yourself what are they financing? So um bnp
Speaker 1: powabust Bank of the West came out this week with
Speaker 1: a new climate action checking account. It has a carbon
Speaker 1: tracking tool to find out if you've shopped at a
Speaker 1: sustainable store. It even has a bio degradable credit card.
Speaker 1: Um also master Card all this week announced the plan
Speaker 1: to work with sixty different financial institutions to issue credit
Speaker 1: cards made from recyclable by the gradables or ocean harvested plastic.
Speaker 1: And actually, you know it's crazy about this is that
Speaker 1: um six billion payment cards are produced a year, so
Speaker 1: that's actually a lot of plastics that can clash out
Speaker 1: your cards. I know. Yeah, it's a big deal, right.
Speaker 1: I know you're like, are you just are you blown
Speaker 1: by that? Jason blown away? Yeah, wherever it's really about,
Speaker 1: go ahead. And I was gonna say, it's really about
Speaker 1: you know what, um, you're financing. So Banks of the
Speaker 1: westmon they are doing this Climate Action Checking account. What's
Speaker 1: interesting about it is that there the bank already has
Speaker 1: very strict policism popic fuel ending and tobacco financing, and
Speaker 1: so they said, you know, we can really offer this
Speaker 1: Climate Action checking account because what your deposits are financing
Speaker 1: we're very clear about, because that's not true what everythank
Speaker 1: in your wallet? Yeah? What what did al Gore have
Speaker 1: to say this week? Yeah? We were also talking this
Speaker 1: week about the feature of sustatable capitalism. Um. We had
Speaker 1: that big Boomberg Green event. Yeah, congrats on that. It
Speaker 1: was huge. It got a lot of pick up tell
Speaker 1: us about it. Yeah, And what we were all talking
Speaker 1: about the time is now, UM to build back better,
Speaker 1: to rethink what we're investing in. And you know, one
Speaker 1: thing he made this interesting point is not doing e
Speaker 1: s G is sort of a violation of fitciary duty. Um, today.
Speaker 1: And people used to think that E. S. G. Was
Speaker 1: a you know, maybe you were violating your could you
Speaker 1: share duty here? Clients by considering this is badness factor?
Speaker 1: And now he said, you're you're not interesting, You're you're
Speaker 1: probably violating your share duty today. So that's a big
Speaker 1: change when you think about the capital market. That's a
Speaker 1: really big deal. That's a really big deal. Um. Alright,
Speaker 1: well because because there's financial implications though right Emily, Like
Speaker 1: there's financial you know, whether it's your impact on the
Speaker 1: environment or your exposed you know, if you've got a
Speaker 1: product that might you know, have an impact on the
Speaker 1: environment or an impact on people in a negative way,
Speaker 1: like like these are things that are now we talk
Speaker 1: about a lot, but they ultimately will have potentially a
Speaker 1: financial impact. Yeah, and I think you see that more
Speaker 1: than ever today with all these systemic issues in the market.
Speaker 1: Was a pandemic and a climate change, and there was
Speaker 1: a story today that, um, you know, we're gonna miss
Speaker 1: two degrees, so that the best case scenario is now
Speaker 1: two point six degrees. Um, So we're going to live
Speaker 1: in a world that is much more volatile, and um,
Speaker 1: the financial markets are definitely gonna have to respond to that,
Speaker 1: and even consumer can respond about their wallet. Yeah, because
Speaker 1: that's what we need, is more volatility. I will say
Speaker 1: Emily that Carol was very disappointed when I told her
Speaker 1: that you and Alex Steele and I, uh this time
Speaker 1: last week went deep on cow toots. She was not
Speaker 1: happy to actually missed it. Am. I actually like I
Speaker 1: beat him at the beginnings, Like I kind of really
Speaker 1: want to talk about cow toots. I feel like I
Speaker 1: missed out big time. All Right, I have a new
Speaker 1: article coming up on plant basis this week, so we
Speaker 1: will come back to it next week. Excellent, that's gonna
Speaker 1: be here again. Oh god, you just have to We're
Speaker 1: gonna We're gonna bring it up at some point. All Right,
Speaker 1: We're gonna bring it up. We're gonna be all right,
Speaker 1: Emily Chason, thank you so much, Sustainability editor. You can
Speaker 1: read more stories on climate news, science and the environment.
Speaker 1: Go to Bloomberg dot com slash green tons of information there.
Speaker 1: There's also a lot of great interactive stuff too. Um.
Speaker 1: That's one of the things I love about the Green
Speaker 1: initiative that Emily is working on with a big team
Speaker 1: here at Bloomberg. Yeah, you're exactly right. It's one of
Speaker 1: our verticals, and so there's a lot of things that
Speaker 1: can really sort of demonstrate for you a lot of
Speaker 1: the issues facing the climate. And also do check out
Speaker 1: that conversation with al Gore. It was a good one
Speaker 1: that really saw it sort of blow up on Twitter
Speaker 1: a little bit. He's one of the voices you really
Speaker 1: want to hear from right now. And there's a certain
Speaker 1: element with al Gore that's like, yeah, thanks for catching
Speaker 1: up people like I've been saying this, Hello, where have
Speaker 1: you all been? What's interesting though, Jason, it went from
Speaker 1: being kind of a feel good do the right thing too.
Speaker 1: It now has a financial impact on companies, whether it's
Speaker 1: consumers don't want to be involved with companies that aren't
Speaker 1: doing the right thing. But ultimately, if you were in
Speaker 1: the environment, there are legal implications, like there's a lot
Speaker 1: of reasons why, there's a lot of momentum and you
Speaker 1: can invest in it, you know, yeah, exactly, plus Scout
Speaker 1: Tunes a journal. Yeah, but you let me drive Oh no, no, no, please,
Speaker 1: ext I want to try just question this is the
Speaker 1: drive to the clobe. Thanks, we'll try us down on
Speaker 1: Bloomberg Radio. It is time. Oh I'm sorry good. No,
Speaker 1: please please after you, Carol, all right, time for the
Speaker 1: drive to the close that Tony road. Roth excuse me.
Speaker 1: He's chief investment officer of Wilmington's Trust, a hundred and
Speaker 1: fourteen billion in assets under management, and he joins us
Speaker 1: on the phone from Cape Cod, Tony. We're just fighting
Speaker 1: to get to you. How excited to talk to you, ma'n.
Speaker 1: How are you to hear your voices? I'm good, I'm good.
Speaker 1: Everyone's healthy up here. Not everybody, but everyone in my
Speaker 1: family and most people up here in Massachusetts has done well.
Speaker 1: That's good. That's good to hear that. UM. I do
Speaker 1: wonder too, as you look at what's going on in
Speaker 1: Massachusetts and then you look at what's going on around
Speaker 1: the country, what does it tell you about kind of
Speaker 1: the economic health or economic environment and ultimately kind of
Speaker 1: the corporate environment that we are in that leads to
Speaker 1: the investment environment. Well, even in Massachusetts, people are very
Speaker 1: cautious and many businesses are either not open or not
Speaker 1: operating any of our close to the capacity. And so
Speaker 1: what it tells me is that we still have a
Speaker 1: long way to go from a labor market standpoint and
Speaker 1: a small business standpoint to get back to a healthy
Speaker 1: economic picture. So around the country, Massachusetts and then there's Washington.
Speaker 1: So a big debate going on, a lot of headlines
Speaker 1: coming out fast and furious as lawmakers try and get together.
Speaker 1: The administration weighs in, how much do you watch this
Speaker 1: sort of TikTok of that, Tony, Because ultimately, whatever latest
Speaker 1: rescue or stimulus or assistance, however you want to describe
Speaker 1: it comes through is going to have a pretty profound effect,
Speaker 1: or its lack of it's going to have a pretty
Speaker 1: pround profound effect on where we go from here. What
Speaker 1: do you make of the debate so far? Well, yeah,
Speaker 1: it's a great question. And there are two things that
Speaker 1: we're very focused on right now, Jason, and that is
Speaker 1: number one, what comes out of Washington in terms of
Speaker 1: the fourth package, and the second is the rate of
Speaker 1: COVID deaths. Those are really the two things that we
Speaker 1: think are the key leading indicators on the market. And
Speaker 1: in terms of the former, what's interesting, I think is
Speaker 1: that you're seeing some positive upward movement in the markets
Speaker 1: today for the first time in a couple of days
Speaker 1: because um meaningfully, because I think that the market is
Speaker 1: happy that the two sides are really starting to dig
Speaker 1: in and talk to each other, and it's it's it's
Speaker 1: interesting that that's my interpretation because when you look at
Speaker 1: the latest news that suggests that the GLP would support
Speaker 1: a hundred hours a week rather than six hundred dollars
Speaker 1: a week um in unemployment benefits, that's very negative news
Speaker 1: if that's where we were to land, because with the
Speaker 1: current benefits, the amount to about fift of our total
Speaker 1: retail sales are essentially being funded through unemployment. If that
Speaker 1: got cut that dramatically, that would would essentially lose the
Speaker 1: funding for about twelve and a half percent of total
Speaker 1: retail sales in the country. That would be very problematic. Right.
Speaker 1: The repercussions Tony, through the through the economy would be
Speaker 1: very dramatic. And when we talk about what kind of
Speaker 1: recovery it is that are that we're hoping to have
Speaker 1: on the other side of this, it could certainly dampen
Speaker 1: it even more. Absolutely, we're very dependent right now on
Speaker 1: the life support we're getting out of Washington in the
Speaker 1: form of extended unemployment benefits, unemployment insurance as well as
Speaker 1: the p p P. And one of the things, Carol,
Speaker 1: that we're seeing is that if you recall the last
Speaker 1: two months, we had very positive, surprising labor market reports.
Speaker 1: The private data that we're tracking suggest that the labor
Speaker 1: markets rolling over and that in July we got to
Speaker 1: see a net loss of jobs rather than these big three,
Speaker 1: four or five million increases that we saw the prior
Speaker 1: two months. Um And that's for a variety of reasons,
Speaker 1: but including the fact that payroll protection is running out
Speaker 1: and people are free to lay people off right now.
Speaker 1: So it all ties back to what's happening in Washington
Speaker 1: right well, well, and do you are you gonna following that? Jason? Okay,
Speaker 1: So in keeping with Washington, I do wonder how much
Speaker 1: you think, Tony two about the elections, the outcome of
Speaker 1: the elections and what that means for us getting control
Speaker 1: of the vaccine and for what that means for our
Speaker 1: economy and ultimately what that what that means for the
Speaker 1: for the markets. And also I do wonder, as you
Speaker 1: watch the vaccine, if we start to see things improved,
Speaker 1: do you think it's more likely that Donald Trump gets
Speaker 1: a second term? Well, a lot in that question. Let
Speaker 1: me start with what's one of the things that's very
Speaker 1: interesting around the market right now is that in a
Speaker 1: typical environment where you have a Democrat winning by five
Speaker 1: by ten points in the polls right now and winning
Speaker 1: an electoral math by a significant amount as well, by
Speaker 1: the way, which is important to note, and the polls
Speaker 1: are better than they were last time around. UM, and
Speaker 1: we've also got probably a chance, if not better, of
Speaker 1: Democrats looping the Senate. Typically that would be a death
Speaker 1: knell for a market rally because it means higher taxes, etcetera.
Speaker 1: But this environment is different because UM, we don't know
Speaker 1: whether or not UM Biden would yes, perhaps raise taxes,
Speaker 1: but also spend much more freely in supporting an economy
Speaker 1: and life support UM and so the the picture of
Speaker 1: the relative paths of a Trump versus Biden administration is
Speaker 1: quite obscure, and so the market really doesn't know at
Speaker 1: this stage until we get a lot more color on
Speaker 1: what their policies are going to be. UM. More specifically,
Speaker 1: we get into the debates and stuff. The market's really
Speaker 1: not um building it in one way or the other,
Speaker 1: and I think that our thinking is along those lines.
Speaker 1: We're really not sure. I will say that UM, it
Speaker 1: is concerning right now from a short term economic standpoint
Speaker 1: that the Republicans are quite reticent. As we've already talked
Speaker 1: about increased these benefits. Um, a Democrat could be much
Speaker 1: more um uh willing to open the wallet in those regards. Um.
Speaker 1: So that's why the market doesn't know what to make
Speaker 1: of it, right, So tend you before we let you go,
Speaker 1: only about a minute or so left. I do wanna
Speaker 1: take a minute on that that second thing that you're tracking,
Speaker 1: and and keep me honest. Did you say the death
Speaker 1: rate rather than hospitalization or case load? What? What do you?
Speaker 1: What's that important number? Yeah? So what it's going to
Speaker 1: really impact consumer activity is going to be the fear
Speaker 1: that somebody's going to go out and catch a catch
Speaker 1: a horrible pathogen and die. It's not that I'm going
Speaker 1: to get something that's going to be a cold and
Speaker 1: I'm gonna get all better and move on that that
Speaker 1: and that is in fact the fallacy I think that
Speaker 1: has led to this new out this new series of outbreaks,
Speaker 1: because a lot of people think, oh, I'm immune to it,
Speaker 1: I'm young, i'm healthy, it's not really going to affect me.
Speaker 1: In fact, what we see is that many people that
Speaker 1: have the virus um they get better, but they carry
Speaker 1: with them significant underlying conditions, maybe for the rest of
Speaker 1: their lives. We don't know that, but that's not really
Speaker 1: what's affecting behavior to today. That's a subtlety that most
Speaker 1: people don't appreciate. What's affecting behavior is if I get this,
Speaker 1: am I going to die? And up until today we
Speaker 1: haven't seen the big spike in deaths. We just broke
Speaker 1: through a thousand again on deaths. Interestingly, we saw the
Speaker 1: tenure for the first time really go back down into
Speaker 1: the get a five handle fifty nine basis points today. Um,
Speaker 1: it's been in the sixties for months now, So that's
Speaker 1: not an accident. As the market excuse me, as the
Speaker 1: death case to start to spike again, you're starting to
Speaker 1: sr stressed in the bond market. Yeah. Interesting. Interesting, Well
Speaker 1: that's a that's a very good uh point and something
Speaker 1: to think about. We really appreciate time. Thank you so much.
Speaker 1: Tony Roth, chief investment officer for Wilmington Trust, joining us
Speaker 1: on the phone from Cape Cod Thanks so much for
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