1 00:00:03,960 --> 00:00:07,520 Speaker 1: In this episode of Newts World, as Christmas Day approaches 2 00:00:07,600 --> 00:00:10,360 Speaker 1: and we celebrate the birth of Jesus, I wanted to 3 00:00:10,360 --> 00:00:14,520 Speaker 1: introduce our listeners to the Word on Fire Institute. It 4 00:00:14,600 --> 00:00:18,680 Speaker 1: is a nonprofit global media apostolate that supports the work 5 00:00:18,720 --> 00:00:22,880 Speaker 1: of Bishop Robert Baron and reaches millions of people to 6 00:00:23,000 --> 00:00:26,200 Speaker 1: draw them into or back to the Catholic faith. So 7 00:00:26,280 --> 00:00:30,000 Speaker 1: I'm really pleased to welcome my guest, doctor Matthew Patruci. 8 00:00:30,440 --> 00:00:43,120 Speaker 1: He's the senior director of the Word on Fire Institute. Matthew, 9 00:00:43,520 --> 00:00:45,840 Speaker 1: welcome and thank you for joining me on Newts World. 10 00:00:46,640 --> 00:00:48,360 Speaker 2: Thank you. It's a great pleasing to be with you. 11 00:00:49,200 --> 00:00:52,320 Speaker 1: This is a fascinating time. The Wall Street Journal recently 12 00:00:52,360 --> 00:00:57,280 Speaker 1: reported the US Bible sales surged by twenty two percent 13 00:00:57,840 --> 00:01:01,160 Speaker 1: through October of twenty twenty four. What do you make 14 00:01:01,200 --> 00:01:04,560 Speaker 1: of this significant increase in Bible sales and what do 15 00:01:04,600 --> 00:01:06,240 Speaker 1: you think is driving this trend. 16 00:01:07,280 --> 00:01:10,360 Speaker 3: It's a remarkable number, isn't it. And when I read that, 17 00:01:10,520 --> 00:01:13,920 Speaker 3: I thought, well, maybe there's some major press that's doing 18 00:01:13,920 --> 00:01:17,720 Speaker 3: a marketing campaign, or there's at least some external factor 19 00:01:17,760 --> 00:01:19,800 Speaker 3: that can at least contribute to an explanation of why 20 00:01:19,800 --> 00:01:22,679 Speaker 3: this is happening. But what I found is that it 21 00:01:22,760 --> 00:01:27,000 Speaker 3: seems to be entirely organic. In other words, a major 22 00:01:27,040 --> 00:01:31,880 Speaker 3: segment of the American population on its own decided that 23 00:01:31,959 --> 00:01:34,360 Speaker 3: they were going to start purchasing Bibles. And in fact, 24 00:01:34,760 --> 00:01:38,280 Speaker 3: most of these purchases, almost all of them are first 25 00:01:38,319 --> 00:01:40,679 Speaker 3: time purchases. 26 00:01:40,080 --> 00:01:40,800 Speaker 2: Of the Bible. 27 00:01:41,280 --> 00:01:44,800 Speaker 3: So I think it very clearly signals a shift in 28 00:01:44,920 --> 00:01:47,120 Speaker 3: the culture. Now we can get into sort of a 29 00:01:47,160 --> 00:01:49,640 Speaker 3: more exploration of why that shift may be taking place 30 00:01:49,680 --> 00:01:53,320 Speaker 3: and where it may be headed, but certainly something has changed. 31 00:01:54,520 --> 00:01:58,680 Speaker 1: So from your perspective, do you interpret this rising Bible 32 00:01:58,760 --> 00:02:03,840 Speaker 1: sales as also an indication of rediscovery of faith in America? 33 00:02:04,760 --> 00:02:05,800 Speaker 2: I do. I do. 34 00:02:06,080 --> 00:02:09,960 Speaker 3: What's interesting is this is occurring as the number of 35 00:02:10,560 --> 00:02:15,080 Speaker 3: people in general, but specifically young people who identify as nuns, 36 00:02:15,080 --> 00:02:17,680 Speaker 3: who've probably heard Bishop Baron use that term nuns meaning 37 00:02:18,000 --> 00:02:22,000 Speaker 3: those who claim no religious affiliation, certainly within Christianity, no 38 00:02:22,160 --> 00:02:26,360 Speaker 3: particular affiliation, any domination. That number appears to have peaked. 39 00:02:26,520 --> 00:02:30,560 Speaker 3: It was rising for literally decades, and now it's hit 40 00:02:30,600 --> 00:02:33,720 Speaker 3: a plateau. So as we're witnessing that plateau of people 41 00:02:33,760 --> 00:02:35,960 Speaker 3: who are saying, I have nothing to do with religion, 42 00:02:36,360 --> 00:02:40,040 Speaker 3: we're also seeing this rise in Bible sales, and so 43 00:02:40,080 --> 00:02:43,080 Speaker 3: I think what's been happening is we've been in the 44 00:02:43,120 --> 00:02:47,600 Speaker 3: midst of a decades long social experiment, one that has 45 00:02:47,720 --> 00:02:50,160 Speaker 3: deep roots, deep philosophical roots. But I think it really 46 00:02:50,240 --> 00:02:53,600 Speaker 3: started to have cultural currency outside of the universities about 47 00:02:53,720 --> 00:02:58,400 Speaker 3: ten to fifteen, maybe twenty years ago. Of cultural altivism. 48 00:02:58,440 --> 00:03:01,640 Speaker 3: It's more radical than cultural eltis. It's absolute subjectivism. So 49 00:03:01,680 --> 00:03:05,359 Speaker 3: each person gets to create his or her or nowadays 50 00:03:05,400 --> 00:03:08,920 Speaker 3: we have to say it, they their truth as an individual, 51 00:03:09,360 --> 00:03:10,800 Speaker 3: and in that sense, we all get to sort of 52 00:03:10,800 --> 00:03:14,600 Speaker 3: become gods. And there's no objective reality, there's no fixed 53 00:03:14,600 --> 00:03:17,200 Speaker 3: meeting and purpose to life, there's no shared human nature, 54 00:03:17,320 --> 00:03:20,639 Speaker 3: there's no common good. And so that's really the cultural 55 00:03:20,840 --> 00:03:23,160 Speaker 3: moral stew that we've been living in for this time. 56 00:03:23,320 --> 00:03:25,720 Speaker 3: And anyone could have predicted this who is paying attention 57 00:03:25,800 --> 00:03:28,639 Speaker 3: decades ago, but it's going to lead to disaster. It's 58 00:03:28,680 --> 00:03:31,480 Speaker 3: going to lead to individual and communal collapse. And I 59 00:03:31,480 --> 00:03:34,000 Speaker 3: think that's what's happened. And now people are looking for 60 00:03:34,080 --> 00:03:36,240 Speaker 3: those deeper roots, as you put it, looking for return 61 00:03:36,320 --> 00:03:38,360 Speaker 3: to a kind of at least a floor that we 62 00:03:38,400 --> 00:03:39,560 Speaker 3: can all stand on together. 63 00:03:40,240 --> 00:03:44,160 Speaker 1: I get the sense that many younger people looking at 64 00:03:44,200 --> 00:03:50,160 Speaker 1: their slightly older brothers and sisters or cousins, find their 65 00:03:50,280 --> 00:03:55,400 Speaker 1: lack of faith on satisfying somehow that's not a life 66 00:03:55,480 --> 00:03:57,880 Speaker 1: they want or a way of life they want. We've 67 00:03:57,920 --> 00:04:01,480 Speaker 1: seen it in some balling we've done America's New Majority Project, 68 00:04:01,880 --> 00:04:06,320 Speaker 1: where you're seeing a shift among people under say twenty 69 00:04:06,440 --> 00:04:10,360 Speaker 1: years of age to being much more conservative in a 70 00:04:10,360 --> 00:04:14,280 Speaker 1: way that totally violates everybody in the left's theory of 71 00:04:14,320 --> 00:04:16,520 Speaker 1: how this is going to work. But it's almost like 72 00:04:17,320 --> 00:04:21,040 Speaker 1: they're reacting to the lack of meaning and the lack 73 00:04:21,120 --> 00:04:24,920 Speaker 1: of commitment that they're seeing in people slightly older than themselves. 74 00:04:25,200 --> 00:04:28,080 Speaker 3: Absolutely, I think that's right on, and I think something 75 00:04:28,080 --> 00:04:30,720 Speaker 3: that's important to highlight about the young people is they're 76 00:04:30,839 --> 00:04:35,040 Speaker 3: paying the price. We can link this analogously perhaps a 77 00:04:35,120 --> 00:04:35,839 Speaker 3: deficit spending. 78 00:04:35,960 --> 00:04:36,120 Speaker 2: Right. 79 00:04:36,440 --> 00:04:40,159 Speaker 3: So, this idea of there not being any real purpose 80 00:04:40,200 --> 00:04:42,600 Speaker 3: to life has been out there for a while, and 81 00:04:43,000 --> 00:04:45,200 Speaker 3: for a period of history. You know, it really didn't 82 00:04:45,279 --> 00:04:47,960 Speaker 3: have many consequences because there were still the older generation 83 00:04:48,400 --> 00:04:51,160 Speaker 3: that was still living according to the generic moral norms 84 00:04:51,200 --> 00:04:54,119 Speaker 3: that we had as a people, as a biblical people, 85 00:04:54,160 --> 00:04:56,320 Speaker 3: as a country founded on the natural law and a 86 00:04:56,360 --> 00:04:59,440 Speaker 3: basic understanding of an objective morality. So while this is 87 00:04:59,440 --> 00:05:02,240 Speaker 3: social expert was being conducted, there was still this generation 88 00:05:02,360 --> 00:05:04,919 Speaker 3: holding things together. But now that generation has moved on, 89 00:05:05,640 --> 00:05:08,520 Speaker 3: and so there's nobody holding things together anymore. And who's 90 00:05:08,560 --> 00:05:11,279 Speaker 3: paying the biggest price for it the young people. They're 91 00:05:11,320 --> 00:05:14,320 Speaker 3: the ones who are in this sort of aimless environment. 92 00:05:14,760 --> 00:05:17,880 Speaker 3: And it's across the board, right, it's psychological, it's religious, 93 00:05:17,920 --> 00:05:23,080 Speaker 3: it's spiritual, it's economic, and they're understandably rebelling against it, 94 00:05:23,160 --> 00:05:24,360 Speaker 3: and good for them. 95 00:05:24,720 --> 00:05:27,720 Speaker 1: Do you find this also in the outreach that you're 96 00:05:27,720 --> 00:05:30,800 Speaker 1: doing at the Word Unfaire Institute. Do you see more 97 00:05:30,839 --> 00:05:33,800 Speaker 1: young people expressing an interest in what you're doing? 98 00:05:34,720 --> 00:05:35,440 Speaker 2: Absolutely. 99 00:05:35,600 --> 00:05:38,440 Speaker 3: That's one of Bishop Baron's great intuitions early on, now 100 00:05:38,480 --> 00:05:41,400 Speaker 3: decades old, and when he started posting videos on YouTube, 101 00:05:41,680 --> 00:05:46,200 Speaker 3: just after YouTube entered into the digital sphere, and immediately 102 00:05:46,279 --> 00:05:48,680 Speaker 3: those who were most attracted to what he was saying 103 00:05:48,720 --> 00:05:50,200 Speaker 3: were young people, not many young people. 104 00:05:50,200 --> 00:05:51,039 Speaker 2: This is still early on. 105 00:05:51,080 --> 00:05:53,039 Speaker 3: This is still when the new Atheism still had quite 106 00:05:53,040 --> 00:05:55,880 Speaker 3: a bit of cultural currency left. I think they're bankrupt now, 107 00:05:56,080 --> 00:05:57,800 Speaker 3: but at that time they were still sort of in 108 00:05:57,839 --> 00:06:00,480 Speaker 3: the ascendency. But even then, a lot of those who 109 00:06:00,480 --> 00:06:03,440 Speaker 3: identify with the new form of atheism, like you know, 110 00:06:03,440 --> 00:06:06,799 Speaker 3: the Christopher Hitchen Sam Harris form of atheism, would argue 111 00:06:06,839 --> 00:06:09,359 Speaker 3: with Bishop Baron. Then he was Father Baron online, so 112 00:06:09,400 --> 00:06:12,080 Speaker 3: they were attracted to it. They couldn't look away, and 113 00:06:12,279 --> 00:06:14,760 Speaker 3: his influence among young people has only grown since then. 114 00:06:15,480 --> 00:06:18,679 Speaker 1: I just have to take him out to reflect on him. 115 00:06:18,880 --> 00:06:21,960 Speaker 1: Callista is a big follower of his and finds that 116 00:06:22,040 --> 00:06:26,200 Speaker 1: his material is very uplifting. I think she gets a 117 00:06:26,279 --> 00:06:30,919 Speaker 1: daily something on the scriptures from him, and she listens 118 00:06:30,960 --> 00:06:34,120 Speaker 1: every single day and seenes man impact. So in a 119 00:06:34,200 --> 00:06:38,000 Speaker 1: lot of ways, the Word on Fire Institute starts with 120 00:06:38,320 --> 00:06:43,479 Speaker 1: one priest who has an intuition that you can proselytize 121 00:06:44,040 --> 00:06:47,880 Speaker 1: on the Internet and has grown that into a worldwide ministry. 122 00:06:48,680 --> 00:06:51,680 Speaker 3: That's right, and I mean the origin stories are very humble. 123 00:06:51,760 --> 00:06:54,080 Speaker 3: If you ever get Bishop Baron talking about them. The 124 00:06:54,120 --> 00:06:56,960 Speaker 3: first meetings I could share this that took place around 125 00:06:57,040 --> 00:07:00,559 Speaker 3: a Panera bread cafe. That's where they first started getting 126 00:07:00,560 --> 00:07:02,960 Speaker 3: together to begin planning of what this ministry might look 127 00:07:03,040 --> 00:07:05,480 Speaker 3: like and what it might do. Bishop Baron of does 128 00:07:05,520 --> 00:07:08,200 Speaker 3: indeed have a great charism but we also, and he's 129 00:07:08,240 --> 00:07:10,040 Speaker 3: the first one to say this, are just grateful for 130 00:07:10,280 --> 00:07:12,800 Speaker 3: the work of the Holy Spirit who has been both 131 00:07:12,840 --> 00:07:15,760 Speaker 3: at the helm leading this whole operation and certainly animating 132 00:07:15,800 --> 00:07:16,320 Speaker 3: it as well. 133 00:07:16,680 --> 00:07:20,960 Speaker 1: Now he is currently the bishop in Winona and Rochester, 134 00:07:21,120 --> 00:07:21,760 Speaker 1: is that correct? 135 00:07:21,920 --> 00:07:23,400 Speaker 2: That's right, southern Minnesota. 136 00:07:23,520 --> 00:07:26,840 Speaker 1: Yeah, but are you based in Los Angeles? I was, 137 00:07:28,960 --> 00:07:31,240 Speaker 1: And you've now got to learn what Minnesota winters are like. 138 00:07:31,640 --> 00:07:34,920 Speaker 2: This is winter number two outside my window right now. Yeah, 139 00:07:34,920 --> 00:07:36,360 Speaker 2: there's some subtle differences. 140 00:07:36,520 --> 00:07:38,720 Speaker 1: I kind of test to you are proving your faith 141 00:07:39,160 --> 00:07:44,080 Speaker 1: and your commitment by going from Los Angeles to eastern Minnesota. 142 00:07:43,800 --> 00:07:45,680 Speaker 2: All right, from your lips to God's ears. 143 00:07:45,840 --> 00:07:49,040 Speaker 1: But I'm curious what drew you to the Word on 144 00:07:49,120 --> 00:07:50,080 Speaker 1: Fire Institute. 145 00:07:50,840 --> 00:07:54,120 Speaker 3: I started listening to Bishop Baron pretty early on when 146 00:07:54,160 --> 00:07:56,360 Speaker 3: he was on YouTube. In fact, the first video that 147 00:07:56,400 --> 00:07:59,960 Speaker 3: he did was on the movie That Departed, a fantastic movie, 148 00:08:00,520 --> 00:08:03,200 Speaker 3: and I happened to find it on YouTube like so 149 00:08:03,280 --> 00:08:06,560 Speaker 3: many others. And my first thought was a Catholic priest 150 00:08:06,760 --> 00:08:10,280 Speaker 3: talking about a movie, and not some you know, religious movie, 151 00:08:10,280 --> 00:08:12,800 Speaker 3: but a movie that Departed. Right, It's a movie about 152 00:08:12,840 --> 00:08:17,640 Speaker 3: basically mob violence in Boston, And I found his review fascinating, 153 00:08:17,720 --> 00:08:20,040 Speaker 3: and so that was sort of my entree into his world. Now, 154 00:08:20,120 --> 00:08:21,720 Speaker 3: I was in graduate school at the time at the 155 00:08:21,800 --> 00:08:25,560 Speaker 3: University of Chicago when I really started listening to his work. 156 00:08:25,800 --> 00:08:28,120 Speaker 3: And something I found while the University of Chicago, I 157 00:08:28,120 --> 00:08:31,120 Speaker 3: can't speak high enough about it's really maintained it's academic integrity. 158 00:08:31,200 --> 00:08:31,679 Speaker 2: Over time. 159 00:08:32,200 --> 00:08:36,000 Speaker 3: My experience with the academic world more broadly was one 160 00:08:36,040 --> 00:08:38,880 Speaker 3: in which not only was the faith watered down, it 161 00:08:38,960 --> 00:08:43,079 Speaker 3: was completely distorted. Even in disciplines outside of religion and 162 00:08:43,160 --> 00:08:46,959 Speaker 3: outside of theology, encounters so much ideology, so many claims 163 00:08:46,960 --> 00:08:50,720 Speaker 3: that are just disprovably false, right, And so I also 164 00:08:50,800 --> 00:08:53,920 Speaker 3: sort of became attracted to his writings, into his words 165 00:08:53,920 --> 00:08:57,679 Speaker 3: as a beacon of an intellectualism. 166 00:08:56,800 --> 00:08:58,400 Speaker 2: That is of the highest order. 167 00:08:58,880 --> 00:09:00,760 Speaker 3: And I think that's what it's attracted so many different 168 00:09:00,800 --> 00:09:02,920 Speaker 3: kinds of people into his orbit and in the Word 169 00:09:02,960 --> 00:09:06,199 Speaker 3: on Fire Institute orbit, is that we really truly seek 170 00:09:06,280 --> 00:09:11,480 Speaker 3: to embody the logos the reason of the Catholic tradition. 171 00:09:28,600 --> 00:09:33,040 Speaker 1: If you were to describe the Word on Fire Institute's mission, 172 00:09:33,600 --> 00:09:34,160 Speaker 1: how would you. 173 00:09:34,120 --> 00:09:37,480 Speaker 3: Describe We have a dual mission at the same time, 174 00:09:37,600 --> 00:09:39,640 Speaker 3: so we like to use the Latin term ad intra 175 00:09:39,840 --> 00:09:42,440 Speaker 3: ad extra. It just means we're seeking to speak to 176 00:09:42,480 --> 00:09:44,840 Speaker 3: the world those who are outside the church, or who 177 00:09:44,840 --> 00:09:47,240 Speaker 3: have one foot inside and one foot outside, and we're 178 00:09:47,240 --> 00:09:49,160 Speaker 3: also seeking to speak to those who are inside the 179 00:09:49,240 --> 00:09:53,040 Speaker 3: church as well. And our goal is really to evangelize 180 00:09:53,040 --> 00:09:55,679 Speaker 3: in the broadest possible sense, and what that means is 181 00:09:55,720 --> 00:09:58,160 Speaker 3: to make the good news of Jesus Christ in its 182 00:09:58,200 --> 00:10:02,360 Speaker 3: most expansive understanding, especially speaking to a more secular audience, 183 00:10:02,360 --> 00:10:04,680 Speaker 3: that there is order, meaning and purpose to the world, 184 00:10:04,720 --> 00:10:08,079 Speaker 3: that your specific life does have a meaning to it, 185 00:10:08,120 --> 00:10:10,600 Speaker 3: does have a great calling to it, That there is 186 00:10:10,600 --> 00:10:15,160 Speaker 3: the possibility of a greater kind of social cohesion oriented 187 00:10:15,200 --> 00:10:18,400 Speaker 3: to a robust understanding of the common good. To make 188 00:10:18,440 --> 00:10:23,200 Speaker 3: that idea palpable and to make it inspiring, and this 189 00:10:23,280 --> 00:10:24,920 Speaker 3: is crucial to what we do. We use this term 190 00:10:24,960 --> 00:10:28,760 Speaker 3: called evangelizing the culture is to find what Bishop Baron 191 00:10:28,880 --> 00:10:31,480 Speaker 3: oftentimes calls the seeds of the word, the seeds of 192 00:10:31,520 --> 00:10:33,080 Speaker 3: the word, that this is a term that goes back 193 00:10:33,120 --> 00:10:35,360 Speaker 3: to the very origins of the church, but to make 194 00:10:35,440 --> 00:10:37,959 Speaker 3: points of contact in the secular culture to say, look, 195 00:10:38,000 --> 00:10:42,560 Speaker 3: you're already talking about things that have eternal significance, and so. 196 00:10:42,559 --> 00:10:43,320 Speaker 2: Let's start there. 197 00:10:43,440 --> 00:10:46,800 Speaker 3: Let's start on a particular movie, or a particular book, 198 00:10:46,960 --> 00:10:50,880 Speaker 3: or a particular political movement, and show how this indeed 199 00:10:51,000 --> 00:10:54,880 Speaker 3: is already kind of an entree into a full worldview that, 200 00:10:55,200 --> 00:10:58,120 Speaker 3: in its greatest sense is salviafic leads us to our 201 00:10:58,160 --> 00:11:00,360 Speaker 3: greatest happiness properly understood. 202 00:11:00,360 --> 00:11:05,000 Speaker 1: From your perspective, then do you look for movies and 203 00:11:05,120 --> 00:11:08,520 Speaker 1: things that are reflective or do you take them as 204 00:11:08,559 --> 00:11:10,000 Speaker 1: they are and then try to figure out what the 205 00:11:10,080 --> 00:11:12,199 Speaker 1: meaning inside them is both. 206 00:11:12,240 --> 00:11:15,400 Speaker 3: We're constantly scanning the culture, all divisions of the culture, 207 00:11:15,559 --> 00:11:18,760 Speaker 3: so whether it's popular entertainment, whether what's what's going on 208 00:11:18,840 --> 00:11:20,760 Speaker 3: in tech. So a big area that we're looking at 209 00:11:20,800 --> 00:11:23,679 Speaker 3: right now is AI artificial intelligence that's on a lot 210 00:11:23,679 --> 00:11:26,760 Speaker 3: of people's mind. I like to focus in particular on 211 00:11:27,000 --> 00:11:29,360 Speaker 3: the political realm, not in any partisan way, but just 212 00:11:29,400 --> 00:11:32,360 Speaker 3: sort of political currents, and there we seek to make 213 00:11:32,400 --> 00:11:35,880 Speaker 3: points of contact. This is fundamentally a Christian understanding the world, right, 214 00:11:35,920 --> 00:11:38,200 Speaker 3: so the world in and of itself is fundamentally good. 215 00:11:38,840 --> 00:11:42,200 Speaker 3: Any deviation from that goodness we would identify as evil. 216 00:11:42,240 --> 00:11:44,640 Speaker 2: But it's a deviation. So the world we could even. 217 00:11:44,559 --> 00:11:48,160 Speaker 3: Use the word metaphysically and its fundamental sense is good. Okay, 218 00:11:48,200 --> 00:11:51,199 Speaker 3: So what that means is we have a basic orientation 219 00:11:51,320 --> 00:11:55,200 Speaker 3: defining good in the world. It's there objectively, it's there 220 00:11:55,320 --> 00:11:58,880 Speaker 3: even in spite of ourselves oftentimes. So make connection with that. 221 00:11:58,960 --> 00:12:01,400 Speaker 3: And what that means is off times in something that 222 00:12:01,440 --> 00:12:04,440 Speaker 3: may otherwise be say a movie that may otherwise have 223 00:12:04,520 --> 00:12:06,960 Speaker 3: some very deviant themes, some dark themes that are not 224 00:12:07,000 --> 00:12:09,800 Speaker 3: good for people, perhaps we can still find something, some 225 00:12:10,000 --> 00:12:13,240 Speaker 3: point of contact that's worth saying, Yeah, but this is 226 00:12:13,280 --> 00:12:14,679 Speaker 3: worth meditating on. 227 00:12:15,120 --> 00:12:16,240 Speaker 2: And so that's what we seek to do. 228 00:12:16,280 --> 00:12:18,120 Speaker 3: We seek to look for the good wherever it is, 229 00:12:18,440 --> 00:12:20,520 Speaker 3: to stand against evil when we see it as well. 230 00:12:20,840 --> 00:12:24,440 Speaker 3: But based on this fundamental predisposition that God created the 231 00:12:24,440 --> 00:12:26,360 Speaker 3: world and he created the world good. 232 00:12:27,120 --> 00:12:30,120 Speaker 1: One of the things you've done is create a Word 233 00:12:30,160 --> 00:12:33,600 Speaker 1: on Fire podcast, which I gather you do every week. 234 00:12:34,400 --> 00:12:37,360 Speaker 1: Is it routinely an hour long or how does it work? 235 00:12:37,720 --> 00:12:39,640 Speaker 3: So we have the Word on Fire show that's with 236 00:12:39,720 --> 00:12:42,439 Speaker 3: Bishop Baron that comes out twice a month. Each episode's 237 00:12:42,480 --> 00:12:45,720 Speaker 3: about a half hour. You can find that on Bishop 238 00:12:45,720 --> 00:12:47,800 Speaker 3: Baron's YouTube channel. So we have two YouTube channels. We 239 00:12:47,840 --> 00:12:50,400 Speaker 3: have Bishop Baron's on YouTube channel. He's also on all 240 00:12:50,400 --> 00:12:53,480 Speaker 3: the other social media platforms we have the Institute YouTube channel. 241 00:12:53,920 --> 00:12:56,360 Speaker 3: The Word on Fire show is specifically on Bishop Baron's 242 00:12:56,400 --> 00:12:59,280 Speaker 3: YouTube channel and there for any of your listeners who 243 00:12:59,360 --> 00:13:01,160 Speaker 3: haven't had the opportunity to listen to it or to 244 00:13:01,200 --> 00:13:04,480 Speaker 3: watch it. It's Bishop Baron doing exactly what we're describing here, 245 00:13:04,520 --> 00:13:08,560 Speaker 3: talking about some major cultural movement or some question or 246 00:13:08,559 --> 00:13:11,880 Speaker 3: some idea or some book or some movie that has 247 00:13:12,040 --> 00:13:15,440 Speaker 3: evangelical significance, and really sort of getting to the bottom 248 00:13:15,480 --> 00:13:17,760 Speaker 3: of it, exploring it and taking away the kinds of 249 00:13:17,800 --> 00:13:19,840 Speaker 3: lessons that are helpful both for those inside the church 250 00:13:19,880 --> 00:13:20,760 Speaker 3: and outside the church. 251 00:13:21,400 --> 00:13:25,040 Speaker 1: You have a lot of different people who've listened to you. 252 00:13:25,120 --> 00:13:26,800 Speaker 1: Do you have any sense of what your reach is? 253 00:13:27,880 --> 00:13:30,480 Speaker 3: We have a good sense, and it's wide. So one 254 00:13:30,520 --> 00:13:32,680 Speaker 3: of the great blessings that I have been inside the 255 00:13:32,760 --> 00:13:37,360 Speaker 3: Institute is we get many letters and emails of people 256 00:13:37,400 --> 00:13:41,000 Speaker 3: who say something along the following lines. I was a 257 00:13:41,120 --> 00:13:44,600 Speaker 3: total atheist. I had a principled objection to the existence 258 00:13:44,600 --> 00:13:47,960 Speaker 3: of God. Sometimes it was just an intellectual objection. Sometimes 259 00:13:48,040 --> 00:13:50,560 Speaker 3: it's an intellectual objection added to some sort of trauma 260 00:13:50,640 --> 00:13:52,920 Speaker 3: that they've experienced. The encounter of evil in the world, 261 00:13:53,679 --> 00:13:58,080 Speaker 3: and listening to you, Bishop Baron, listening to the productions 262 00:13:58,120 --> 00:14:01,720 Speaker 3: of the Word on Fire Institute slowly but surely led 263 00:14:01,760 --> 00:14:05,079 Speaker 3: me along the path to discovering that God does exist, 264 00:14:05,440 --> 00:14:08,720 Speaker 3: and that Jesus Christ is his only son, and that 265 00:14:08,760 --> 00:14:11,360 Speaker 3: he has founded a church whose calling is to gather 266 00:14:11,480 --> 00:14:15,360 Speaker 3: all the people. There's many different permutations of that story 267 00:14:15,360 --> 00:14:18,920 Speaker 3: that are highly individualized, but we see it happening in 268 00:14:18,960 --> 00:14:20,760 Speaker 3: the numbers of the thousands, and those are just the 269 00:14:20,760 --> 00:14:22,480 Speaker 3: people who communicate with us. 270 00:14:37,840 --> 00:14:43,080 Speaker 1: For you, it must be a remarkably fulfilling experience have 271 00:14:43,120 --> 00:14:47,320 Speaker 1: this opportunity to reach out and to share faith and 272 00:14:47,360 --> 00:14:48,400 Speaker 1: to share the gospel. 273 00:14:49,640 --> 00:14:52,200 Speaker 3: Absolutely, and one of the things that I especially appreciate 274 00:14:52,200 --> 00:14:54,560 Speaker 3: about the Word on Fire Institute Ethos the way we 275 00:14:54,640 --> 00:14:57,680 Speaker 3: specifically try and position ourselves in relations to the culture 276 00:14:58,520 --> 00:15:01,480 Speaker 3: is we seek to recognize the real brokenness of the world. 277 00:15:01,560 --> 00:15:04,040 Speaker 3: It's not something that we paper over. It's not something 278 00:15:04,120 --> 00:15:06,880 Speaker 3: that out of a kind of misplaced sense of piety. 279 00:15:06,920 --> 00:15:08,800 Speaker 3: We don't want to get our hands dirty, we don't 280 00:15:08,800 --> 00:15:13,120 Speaker 3: want to say things that perhaps would scandalize people. We're 281 00:15:13,120 --> 00:15:15,720 Speaker 3: going to be able to defront the world as it 282 00:15:15,880 --> 00:15:19,640 Speaker 3: is carrying the Gospel message out into the dark, recognizing 283 00:15:19,680 --> 00:15:21,640 Speaker 3: that there is a fact a lot of darkness, and 284 00:15:21,720 --> 00:15:26,120 Speaker 3: the principal origin of that darkness is within our own hearts. 285 00:15:26,680 --> 00:15:29,240 Speaker 3: So to recognize this is one of the fundamental themes 286 00:15:29,240 --> 00:15:32,640 Speaker 3: of our evangelical work. Recognize that, I'll just personalize it. 287 00:15:32,680 --> 00:15:35,640 Speaker 3: Recognize that I am as sinner, Recognize that I have 288 00:15:35,680 --> 00:15:38,600 Speaker 3: a kind of fundamental brokenness to me that I can't 289 00:15:38,600 --> 00:15:41,480 Speaker 3: fix on my own, and that's precisely the reason that 290 00:15:41,600 --> 00:15:43,960 Speaker 3: I need a redeemer. So that's part of the Gospel message. 291 00:15:44,000 --> 00:15:47,120 Speaker 3: The Gospel message is not just sort of therapeutic deism, 292 00:15:47,200 --> 00:15:49,800 Speaker 3: as I think it's right been described of, like hey, 293 00:15:50,280 --> 00:15:52,360 Speaker 3: you're perfect just the way you are, and the world 294 00:15:52,400 --> 00:15:54,040 Speaker 3: is fine just the way it is. All you need 295 00:15:54,120 --> 00:15:57,600 Speaker 3: is a little help to reorganize your life. It's start 296 00:15:57,640 --> 00:15:59,880 Speaker 3: from the premise that there is brokenness. There is a 297 00:16:00,080 --> 00:16:02,920 Speaker 3: deep darkness. There's cruelty, there's as Bishop Baron puts it, 298 00:16:02,960 --> 00:16:07,160 Speaker 3: there's stupidity, there's a desire to self destruct even within 299 00:16:07,200 --> 00:16:10,160 Speaker 3: all of us. And so once we are honest with that, 300 00:16:10,240 --> 00:16:12,840 Speaker 3: then we can really truly see the power of the Gospel. 301 00:16:12,880 --> 00:16:14,840 Speaker 3: That's Jesus Christ is seeking to save. He's come to 302 00:16:14,840 --> 00:16:17,880 Speaker 3: save sinners, not the righteous. What's the subtext of that? 303 00:16:18,040 --> 00:16:20,200 Speaker 3: No one is righteous on their own, so he's come 304 00:16:20,240 --> 00:16:22,520 Speaker 3: to save all of us out in the wilderness. 305 00:16:22,920 --> 00:16:28,280 Speaker 1: In a sense, the very original rebellion of Adam and 306 00:16:28,320 --> 00:16:34,080 Speaker 1: Eve in Eating the Apple in Defiance of God is 307 00:16:34,120 --> 00:16:38,960 Speaker 1: renewed regularly by people who reject God and try to 308 00:16:38,960 --> 00:16:43,480 Speaker 1: find a way to live as isolated beings with nothing 309 00:16:43,520 --> 00:16:46,840 Speaker 1: to fill the spiritual gap. I'd never thought of it before, 310 00:16:46,960 --> 00:16:49,880 Speaker 1: but in a sense it's a renewal at a personal 311 00:16:50,000 --> 00:16:54,720 Speaker 1: level of Genesis and the story of Eve and Adam. 312 00:16:55,120 --> 00:16:57,800 Speaker 3: Every form of sin, we say is ultimately has its 313 00:16:57,840 --> 00:17:00,920 Speaker 3: roots in pride. And what is pride at its deepest 314 00:17:01,000 --> 00:17:05,280 Speaker 3: level is I am my own God. I am the 315 00:17:05,400 --> 00:17:07,960 Speaker 3: creator of all that is. I'm the creator, the order 316 00:17:08,000 --> 00:17:10,080 Speaker 3: of the structure, and even the redeemer. We see this 317 00:17:10,160 --> 00:17:13,040 Speaker 3: in sort of this misplaced sense of self righteousness, and 318 00:17:13,080 --> 00:17:15,520 Speaker 3: we could even see in some progressive ideologies, right, I'm 319 00:17:15,560 --> 00:17:17,840 Speaker 3: the savior as well. So not only do I create, 320 00:17:17,920 --> 00:17:20,359 Speaker 3: I save, And that's sort of what we see in 321 00:17:20,400 --> 00:17:22,399 Speaker 3: that original rebellion. You've got your finger, I think in 322 00:17:22,480 --> 00:17:26,000 Speaker 3: exactly the right place is what's the serpent say you 323 00:17:26,119 --> 00:17:29,600 Speaker 3: will be like God's and that they find the thrilling, 324 00:17:30,119 --> 00:17:33,400 Speaker 3: they find it so irresistible, right, And that's I think 325 00:17:33,520 --> 00:17:37,160 Speaker 3: that's the temptation of sin. Sin is always attractive, Sin 326 00:17:37,320 --> 00:17:43,000 Speaker 3: always looks delicious, Sin always has a positive feeling associated 327 00:17:43,040 --> 00:17:46,080 Speaker 3: with it, But it's always poison. And so in one 328 00:17:46,119 --> 00:17:48,800 Speaker 3: way or another, we're always going to see whatever brokenness 329 00:17:48,880 --> 00:17:51,840 Speaker 3: that we're a part of, whatever brokenness we're creating, it's 330 00:17:51,880 --> 00:17:55,200 Speaker 3: going to have that original rebellion embedded within it. 331 00:17:55,280 --> 00:17:56,640 Speaker 2: I think that's exactly right. 332 00:17:56,760 --> 00:18:00,760 Speaker 1: And that's why when you watch what's happening, you see 333 00:18:00,800 --> 00:18:05,119 Speaker 1: people who are hollowed out because they have nothing to 334 00:18:05,160 --> 00:18:08,520 Speaker 1: sustain them, and that leads, I think, to drugs, it 335 00:18:08,600 --> 00:18:12,119 Speaker 1: leads to suicide, It leads to a lot of different 336 00:18:12,200 --> 00:18:16,000 Speaker 1: terrible things that have become the hallmark of a secular 337 00:18:16,080 --> 00:18:19,879 Speaker 1: society which I think doesn't realize it yet, but is 338 00:18:19,920 --> 00:18:23,639 Speaker 1: in search of God in a very profound way. The 339 00:18:23,680 --> 00:18:27,960 Speaker 1: Word on Fire Institute is filling a human need that's 340 00:18:28,119 --> 00:18:30,159 Speaker 1: very deep in the American system. 341 00:18:30,560 --> 00:18:32,520 Speaker 2: It's very deep everywhere. But I think you're absolutely right. 342 00:18:32,560 --> 00:18:36,160 Speaker 3: There's a particular malaise in the United States I'd say 343 00:18:36,160 --> 00:18:38,520 Speaker 3: probably in the West in general, I think part there's 344 00:18:38,560 --> 00:18:40,480 Speaker 3: some exceptions to that, but certainly the United States is 345 00:18:40,480 --> 00:18:42,919 Speaker 3: part of that. Malayse I like that word emptiness. You 346 00:18:42,920 --> 00:18:46,000 Speaker 3: can oftentimes see new You can see the emptiness in 347 00:18:46,040 --> 00:18:48,040 Speaker 3: the eyes right especially now that we have access to 348 00:18:48,080 --> 00:18:50,240 Speaker 3: so many different people who desire to be you know, 349 00:18:50,520 --> 00:18:52,679 Speaker 3: seeing on what it's on TikTok or in Utah. You 350 00:18:52,720 --> 00:18:54,920 Speaker 3: can literally see in their eyes that emptiness that you're 351 00:18:55,080 --> 00:18:58,119 Speaker 3: pointing to. I think that's one of the fundamental problems 352 00:18:58,359 --> 00:19:01,640 Speaker 3: with the rainy ideology, to various forms, the idea that 353 00:19:01,720 --> 00:19:03,840 Speaker 3: I create my own truth. I am the god of 354 00:19:03,840 --> 00:19:06,680 Speaker 3: my own moral and even physical universe. I can even 355 00:19:06,760 --> 00:19:09,600 Speaker 3: change the very nature of my body to declare myself 356 00:19:09,640 --> 00:19:10,760 Speaker 3: to be a woman, for example. 357 00:19:10,840 --> 00:19:12,440 Speaker 2: That whole idea is. 358 00:19:12,400 --> 00:19:16,919 Speaker 3: That it's ultimately radically isolating. If it's true that we 359 00:19:16,960 --> 00:19:19,920 Speaker 3: are the authors of our own world, then that means 360 00:19:20,119 --> 00:19:23,600 Speaker 3: no one else really is in that world, and that's hell. 361 00:19:24,000 --> 00:19:26,920 Speaker 3: That's sort of the definition of hell is radical isolation 362 00:19:27,359 --> 00:19:30,639 Speaker 3: from all other human beings and ultimately for God. So 363 00:19:30,800 --> 00:19:34,639 Speaker 3: we see basically a living hell right now before our eyes. 364 00:19:35,440 --> 00:19:38,600 Speaker 1: I was fascinated by a Pew Research Center study. It 365 00:19:38,640 --> 00:19:43,080 Speaker 1: said about twenty one percent of the American adults regularly 366 00:19:43,160 --> 00:19:47,879 Speaker 1: watch religious services online, twenty one percent use apps or 367 00:19:47,880 --> 00:19:51,200 Speaker 1: websites to help them read the Bible or other religious scriptures. 368 00:19:51,720 --> 00:19:55,680 Speaker 1: Sixteen percent said they were regularly attending religious services only 369 00:19:55,760 --> 00:19:59,720 Speaker 1: in person, so there are actually more people who are 370 00:19:59,760 --> 00:20:03,840 Speaker 1: on line then only attend in person. Ten percent we're 371 00:20:03,840 --> 00:20:08,159 Speaker 1: regularly watching services only on screens but not going to church, 372 00:20:08,720 --> 00:20:12,800 Speaker 1: seventeen percent regularly doing both, and fifteen percent of US 373 00:20:12,840 --> 00:20:17,080 Speaker 1: adults say they listen to religion focused podcasts and they 374 00:20:17,160 --> 00:20:20,600 Speaker 1: use apps or websites to help or remind them to pray, 375 00:20:21,119 --> 00:20:24,439 Speaker 1: including eight percent who use prayer apps or sites daily. 376 00:20:25,080 --> 00:20:29,280 Speaker 1: It's an amazing penetration accepting the technology of the modern 377 00:20:29,280 --> 00:20:32,840 Speaker 1: era as a legitimate way to spread the Word of 378 00:20:32,880 --> 00:20:36,080 Speaker 1: God and to get people to be engaged in a 379 00:20:36,160 --> 00:20:37,200 Speaker 1: spiritual pursuit. 380 00:20:37,840 --> 00:20:39,200 Speaker 2: It's the way it is now. 381 00:20:39,600 --> 00:20:42,359 Speaker 3: At the Institute, we sort of recognize a kind of tension. 382 00:20:42,400 --> 00:20:44,919 Speaker 3: It's a creative tension, but it's a genuine tension, and 383 00:20:44,960 --> 00:20:46,919 Speaker 3: it takes a falling form. So on the one hand, 384 00:20:47,520 --> 00:20:50,359 Speaker 3: we are incarnational beings. So this is the season of advent, 385 00:20:50,359 --> 00:20:51,479 Speaker 3: we're headed towards Christmas. 386 00:20:51,560 --> 00:20:51,679 Speaker 2: Right. 387 00:20:51,720 --> 00:20:55,359 Speaker 3: The fundamental Christian message is that God becomes incarnate, becomes 388 00:20:55,960 --> 00:21:00,480 Speaker 3: fully human while remaining fully divine. So salvation and as 389 00:21:00,480 --> 00:21:03,000 Speaker 3: it were, our full happiness for the fullness of what 390 00:21:03,040 --> 00:21:07,040 Speaker 3: it means to be human is in the tactile, physical realm, 391 00:21:07,520 --> 00:21:12,320 Speaker 3: and so our lives, properly understood, should be enmeshed with 392 00:21:12,400 --> 00:21:17,399 Speaker 3: each other, physically present, with encountering beauty, physically present, with 393 00:21:17,520 --> 00:21:19,920 Speaker 3: deep friendships, with marriage, with children. 394 00:21:19,640 --> 00:21:20,919 Speaker 2: All these physicalities. 395 00:21:21,040 --> 00:21:24,159 Speaker 3: Right, that's what it means to fundamentally be oriented to 396 00:21:24,280 --> 00:21:27,040 Speaker 3: God in the incarnate, in Jesus Christ. And so we 397 00:21:27,080 --> 00:21:30,080 Speaker 3: always want to move people back to the physical realm. 398 00:21:30,280 --> 00:21:33,280 Speaker 3: But at the same time, right as you're pointing out, 399 00:21:33,960 --> 00:21:36,840 Speaker 3: that's not where a lot of people are living their lives, right. 400 00:21:36,920 --> 00:21:39,800 Speaker 3: I read a stat recently that youth are spending between 401 00:21:39,800 --> 00:21:42,800 Speaker 3: six to eight hours a day looking at a screen. 402 00:21:43,480 --> 00:21:46,640 Speaker 3: And so there's a kind of evangelical sense that, well, look, 403 00:21:46,680 --> 00:21:49,000 Speaker 3: we've got to go to where the people are. That 404 00:21:49,040 --> 00:21:50,560 Speaker 3: doesn't mean that's where we're going to stay, but we 405 00:21:50,640 --> 00:21:52,960 Speaker 3: got to go there. And where are they. They're on 406 00:21:53,040 --> 00:21:55,760 Speaker 3: their phones, they're on their computers, and so we have 407 00:21:55,800 --> 00:21:56,440 Speaker 3: to be there too. 408 00:21:57,240 --> 00:22:01,119 Speaker 1: Frankly, that allows you to be in the progression, if 409 00:22:01,160 --> 00:22:03,680 Speaker 1: you think of it as crossing a bridge, to go 410 00:22:03,760 --> 00:22:06,920 Speaker 1: from the side of the bridge which is purely secular, 411 00:22:07,359 --> 00:22:10,560 Speaker 1: and gradually work their way across to the side which 412 00:22:10,600 --> 00:22:14,040 Speaker 1: is deeply religious. I think in that sense that Word 413 00:22:14,119 --> 00:22:17,720 Speaker 1: on Fire is really at the cutting edge of how 414 00:22:17,760 --> 00:22:22,000 Speaker 1: we save Western civilization, because Western civilization can only be 415 00:22:22,080 --> 00:22:26,120 Speaker 1: saved if it is ultimately built around the Judeo Christian 416 00:22:26,119 --> 00:22:30,399 Speaker 1: tradition and aware of the power of the spiritual world 417 00:22:30,520 --> 00:22:33,200 Speaker 1: and not just the physical world. And in that sense, 418 00:22:33,240 --> 00:22:36,720 Speaker 1: I think this is fundamental both to the future of 419 00:22:36,760 --> 00:22:39,399 Speaker 1: the United States, but also to the future of the 420 00:22:40,040 --> 00:22:41,760 Speaker 1: entire civilization that we're part of. 421 00:22:42,680 --> 00:22:43,399 Speaker 2: I totally agree. 422 00:22:43,440 --> 00:22:45,760 Speaker 3: There's two fundamental dangers with regards I think to an 423 00:22:45,800 --> 00:22:47,760 Speaker 3: individual life, but who could also say the life of 424 00:22:47,800 --> 00:22:51,320 Speaker 3: a civilization. And one danger is to I think this 425 00:22:51,359 --> 00:22:53,520 Speaker 3: is probably the danger that we're mired in right now, 426 00:22:53,640 --> 00:22:56,240 Speaker 3: is to just live in the physical, bodily realm, to 427 00:22:56,320 --> 00:22:59,160 Speaker 3: cut our connection to the transcendent, to deny the very 428 00:22:59,160 --> 00:23:01,840 Speaker 3: existence of the train and sendent, and to just live 429 00:23:01,920 --> 00:23:05,879 Speaker 3: a purely physical life. Well, of course, the danger of 430 00:23:05,920 --> 00:23:08,760 Speaker 3: that is the denigration and degradation of the human being 431 00:23:08,800 --> 00:23:11,120 Speaker 3: that we see happening in so many different forms before 432 00:23:11,119 --> 00:23:13,840 Speaker 3: our eyes. Right now, what's the Christian tradition do? It 433 00:23:13,920 --> 00:23:17,520 Speaker 3: reconnects us to the transcendent in a sacramental way, so 434 00:23:17,560 --> 00:23:21,439 Speaker 3: that everything, ultimately properly understood can be a vehicle for 435 00:23:21,520 --> 00:23:25,199 Speaker 3: making contact with God. The other danger, however, is to 436 00:23:25,240 --> 00:23:27,640 Speaker 3: live in like a platonic note. I don't think this 437 00:23:27,680 --> 00:23:29,920 Speaker 3: is happening, but it has happened in periods of history, 438 00:23:29,920 --> 00:23:32,560 Speaker 3: to say, well, look, bodies are bad, the world is bad, 439 00:23:32,600 --> 00:23:35,640 Speaker 3: the world is passing away. There's nothing good or redeemable here, 440 00:23:36,119 --> 00:23:39,240 Speaker 3: and so our whole purpose is tried to escape our materiality, 441 00:23:39,480 --> 00:23:42,480 Speaker 3: to escape the very sort of confines of the corpus 442 00:23:42,520 --> 00:23:45,520 Speaker 3: that we're in. Well, that's a mistake too, and a 443 00:23:45,560 --> 00:23:49,840 Speaker 3: civilization that doesn't take seriously the fundamental goodness of physical 444 00:23:49,840 --> 00:23:51,919 Speaker 3: reality is also going to fail. So I think you're 445 00:23:51,960 --> 00:23:55,399 Speaker 3: absolutely right. The only proper orientation and foundation of a 446 00:23:55,440 --> 00:23:58,000 Speaker 3: civilization is one from a Christian point of view, a 447 00:23:58,000 --> 00:24:01,400 Speaker 3: Biblical point of view that recognize is the fundamental goodness 448 00:24:01,400 --> 00:24:03,719 Speaker 3: of physical reality, the importance of social life, the importance 449 00:24:03,760 --> 00:24:07,320 Speaker 3: even a politics of culture and yet is always grounded 450 00:24:07,359 --> 00:24:08,960 Speaker 3: in and oriented to the transcendent. 451 00:24:09,560 --> 00:24:12,600 Speaker 1: In that sense, what you're doing is at the heart 452 00:24:12,640 --> 00:24:16,040 Speaker 1: of trying to weave together. You can learn about this, 453 00:24:16,200 --> 00:24:19,760 Speaker 1: you can experience it on the internet, but you can 454 00:24:19,800 --> 00:24:23,000 Speaker 1: also then take that into your own life, into your 455 00:24:23,000 --> 00:24:26,800 Speaker 1: own community, into your own church. And it's the dual interaction. 456 00:24:26,880 --> 00:24:29,360 Speaker 1: I mean, you can also be a witness in your 457 00:24:29,440 --> 00:24:33,359 Speaker 1: business or a witness in your social activities, not in 458 00:24:33,359 --> 00:24:38,040 Speaker 1: a aggressive missionary sense, but simply in reflecting on the 459 00:24:38,040 --> 00:24:42,600 Speaker 1: centrality of spiritual belief and the centrality of some connectivity 460 00:24:42,640 --> 00:24:47,240 Speaker 1: to God, which is inherently humbling. That's a key part 461 00:24:47,240 --> 00:24:50,160 Speaker 1: of this is that we are all merely children of God, 462 00:24:50,480 --> 00:24:53,639 Speaker 1: and therefore we all have to ultimately look to God 463 00:24:54,000 --> 00:24:57,760 Speaker 1: for salvation and to God for living a complete life. 464 00:24:57,760 --> 00:25:01,160 Speaker 1: And Matthew wanna thank you for joining me. I want 465 00:25:01,160 --> 00:25:04,000 Speaker 1: to let our listeners know they can learn more about 466 00:25:04,040 --> 00:25:06,879 Speaker 1: the terrific work you are doing at the Word on 467 00:25:07,040 --> 00:25:12,080 Speaker 1: Fire Institute by visiting your website at Wordonfire dot org, 468 00:25:12,280 --> 00:25:15,040 Speaker 1: which will be on our show page. And Bishop Baron 469 00:25:15,119 --> 00:25:18,640 Speaker 1: has some terrific videos on your site as well as 470 00:25:18,680 --> 00:25:21,639 Speaker 1: the Word on Fire podcast. I can say on behalf 471 00:25:21,680 --> 00:25:25,480 Speaker 1: of Calissa. These are really really worthwhile and I really 472 00:25:25,560 --> 00:25:27,280 Speaker 1: encourage our listeners to check it out. 473 00:25:28,040 --> 00:25:30,720 Speaker 2: Thank you so much, Thank you so much. God bless you, 474 00:25:30,800 --> 00:25:32,760 Speaker 2: and early very merry Christmas to you new. 475 00:25:35,720 --> 00:25:39,280 Speaker 1: Thank you to my guest doctor Matthew Patrussik. You can 476 00:25:39,359 --> 00:25:42,200 Speaker 1: learn more about the Word on Fire Institute on our 477 00:25:42,240 --> 00:25:46,000 Speaker 1: show page at newtsworld dot com. Newtschwell is produced by 478 00:25:46,000 --> 00:25:51,120 Speaker 1: Gannglish three sixty and iHeartMedia. Our executive producer is Guernsey 479 00:25:51,160 --> 00:25:55,879 Speaker 1: Sloan and our researcher is Rachel Peterson. The artwork for 480 00:25:55,960 --> 00:25:59,840 Speaker 1: the show was created by Steve Fenley Special thanks to 481 00:26:00,000 --> 00:26:03,200 Speaker 1: tam at Gingrid three sixty. If you've been enjoying Nutsworld, 482 00:26:03,600 --> 00:26:06,360 Speaker 1: I hope you'll go to Apple Podcasts and both rate 483 00:26:06,440 --> 00:26:09,320 Speaker 1: us with five stars and give us a review so 484 00:26:09,440 --> 00:26:12,880 Speaker 1: others can learn what it's all about. Right now, listeners 485 00:26:12,880 --> 00:26:16,480 Speaker 1: of Newtsworld can sign up for my three free weekly 486 00:26:16,600 --> 00:26:22,080 Speaker 1: columns at gingrichtree sixty dot com slash newsletter. I'm newt Gingrich. 487 00:26:22,480 --> 00:26:23,520 Speaker 1: This is Neutsworld.