1 00:00:03,680 --> 00:00:07,520 Speaker 1: Each of us, if we live long enough, is going 2 00:00:07,560 --> 00:00:12,120 Speaker 1: to experience trauma. Trauma is a Greek word that means 3 00:00:12,160 --> 00:00:16,400 Speaker 1: injury to the body, mind or spirit. Parents, grandparents die, 4 00:00:16,640 --> 00:00:20,639 Speaker 1: we may have major disappointments at work, we may get divorced, 5 00:00:20,760 --> 00:00:25,000 Speaker 1: partners may die. So that's traumatic. I think we have 6 00:00:25,120 --> 00:00:28,480 Speaker 1: to recover that understanding that trauma is a part of life. 7 00:00:28,560 --> 00:00:36,000 Speaker 1: Collective trauma is what we're all experiencing right now. So 8 00:00:36,200 --> 00:00:39,800 Speaker 1: you know, a mod arbor. In February, Brianna Taylor, in March, 9 00:00:40,360 --> 00:00:45,080 Speaker 1: George Floyd in the Midsummer. We're getting reminders again that 10 00:00:45,200 --> 00:00:47,800 Speaker 1: even in the midst of a pandemic, the pandemic of 11 00:00:47,840 --> 00:00:53,280 Speaker 1: American racism is still steadily beating forward. It's not an 12 00:00:53,320 --> 00:00:56,279 Speaker 1: individualized thing. This is a systemic thing. It's not an 13 00:00:56,280 --> 00:00:59,760 Speaker 1: individualized experience of trauma. This is rooted in our countries. 14 00:00:59,800 --> 00:01:04,520 Speaker 1: His three. Hi everyone, I'm Katie Kuric, and this is 15 00:01:04,640 --> 00:01:09,360 Speaker 1: next question. It has been a brutal year, not only 16 00:01:09,440 --> 00:01:13,440 Speaker 1: for the loss, heartache and isolation this pandemic has brought, 17 00:01:14,120 --> 00:01:19,360 Speaker 1: but also because of everything else. It is the nightmare 18 00:01:19,480 --> 00:01:24,080 Speaker 1: that America, I'm an especially African Americans country are living 19 00:01:24,280 --> 00:01:29,640 Speaker 1: and experiencing over and over. She dialoged it in the 20 00:01:29,720 --> 00:01:33,240 Speaker 1: comfort of her own home and over again. A mob, 21 00:01:33,440 --> 00:01:38,280 Speaker 1: supporting and encouraged by President Trump, storm the US capital. 22 00:01:38,440 --> 00:01:41,319 Speaker 1: We will never give up. We will never concede. It 23 00:01:41,360 --> 00:01:48,440 Speaker 1: doesn't happen. You don't concede. Whether who would have ever 24 00:01:48,480 --> 00:01:51,200 Speaker 1: believed we would see anything like this now to a 25 00:01:51,240 --> 00:01:55,160 Speaker 1: disturbing rise and attacks on Asian Americans from California to 26 00:01:55,200 --> 00:01:58,080 Speaker 1: New York. Six of his eight alleged victims were Asian women, 27 00:01:58,240 --> 00:02:01,640 Speaker 1: viciously attacked in broad day lights. Tensions are already high 28 00:02:01,640 --> 00:02:03,840 Speaker 1: in the city where the trial of former police officer 29 00:02:03,920 --> 00:02:06,880 Speaker 1: Derek Showing. Even as the trial was going on, protests 30 00:02:06,880 --> 00:02:10,160 Speaker 1: are raging once again in Minneapolis over the killing of 31 00:02:10,320 --> 00:02:14,440 Speaker 1: another unarmed black man. Don't right, remembers the jury. I 32 00:02:14,520 --> 00:02:17,440 Speaker 1: understand you have a verdict. It's a trauma. We the 33 00:02:17,480 --> 00:02:19,720 Speaker 1: jury in the above entitled manner as to count one 34 00:02:20,280 --> 00:02:23,520 Speaker 1: unintentional second degree murder while committing a felony, buying the 35 00:02:23,560 --> 00:02:28,200 Speaker 1: defendant guilty, a brave young woman, a smartphone camera, a 36 00:02:28,240 --> 00:02:32,160 Speaker 1: crowd that was traumatized, as to count two third degree murder, 37 00:02:32,240 --> 00:02:35,360 Speaker 1: perpetrating and eminently dangerous act, find the defendant guilty. We 38 00:02:35,400 --> 00:02:38,960 Speaker 1: saw how traumatic and exhausting just watching the trial was 39 00:02:39,040 --> 00:02:43,200 Speaker 1: for so many people. Count three second degree manslaughter culpable 40 00:02:43,280 --> 00:02:47,160 Speaker 1: negligence creating an unreasonable risk buying the defendant guilty of 41 00:02:47,240 --> 00:02:50,560 Speaker 1: that verdict agree too. On top of the fear so 42 00:02:50,600 --> 00:02:54,160 Speaker 1: many people of color live with every day when they 43 00:02:54,200 --> 00:02:57,919 Speaker 1: go to sleep at night and pray for the safety 44 00:02:57,919 --> 00:03:04,120 Speaker 1: of themselves and their loved ones. It's been painful, and 45 00:03:04,200 --> 00:03:06,840 Speaker 1: even though we're starting to inch out of the shadow 46 00:03:06,960 --> 00:03:10,600 Speaker 1: cast by this pandemic, depending on what you've experienced or 47 00:03:10,639 --> 00:03:14,200 Speaker 1: witnessed this past year, the light that greets you may 48 00:03:14,200 --> 00:03:18,799 Speaker 1: not be much comfort. So for now, in today's podcast, 49 00:03:19,320 --> 00:03:23,560 Speaker 1: we want to acknowledge the trauma, the individual traumas, and 50 00:03:23,600 --> 00:03:28,280 Speaker 1: the uniquely shared trauma of this past year, and how 51 00:03:28,440 --> 00:03:32,919 Speaker 1: we can begin to heal. I think healing looks like 52 00:03:34,280 --> 00:03:38,720 Speaker 1: honoring black culture and tradition, honoring our bodies. We have 53 00:03:38,840 --> 00:03:43,200 Speaker 1: to see this as a public health emergency. When you're 54 00:03:43,280 --> 00:03:46,880 Speaker 1: so used to being told that you are in the margins, 55 00:03:47,640 --> 00:03:50,400 Speaker 1: and that you're supposed to be grateful for that slot 56 00:03:50,560 --> 00:03:55,320 Speaker 1: in the margins, it's it's really liberating to learn that 57 00:03:55,320 --> 00:03:58,960 Speaker 1: that is false and that you are capable of creating 58 00:03:59,200 --> 00:04:03,920 Speaker 1: and living your own truth. Today, we'll hear from three 59 00:04:04,000 --> 00:04:09,320 Speaker 1: healing practitioners, a psychiatrist, a parenting advocate, and a sewing 60 00:04:09,360 --> 00:04:13,800 Speaker 1: group leader, each of them devoted to transforming trauma in 61 00:04:13,840 --> 00:04:17,159 Speaker 1: their own way, and with their help will understand what 62 00:04:17,240 --> 00:04:21,200 Speaker 1: share trauma means, how it's experienced, and how we can 63 00:04:21,240 --> 00:04:26,680 Speaker 1: move forward. We'll start with the psychiatrist. Well, you know, 64 00:04:26,800 --> 00:04:30,919 Speaker 1: psychiatry is all about trauma. Dr James Gordon is the 65 00:04:30,960 --> 00:04:34,440 Speaker 1: founder and executive director of the nonprofit Center for Mind 66 00:04:34,480 --> 00:04:39,240 Speaker 1: Body Medicine in Washington, d C. The origins of modern 67 00:04:39,279 --> 00:04:42,839 Speaker 1: psychiatry with Freud and Broyer and Jane at the end 68 00:04:42,880 --> 00:04:46,440 Speaker 1: of the nineteenth century, and what they understood is the 69 00:04:46,560 --> 00:04:50,640 Speaker 1: power of psychological trauma, particularly early in life, to affect 70 00:04:50,760 --> 00:04:53,640 Speaker 1: us later in life and to produce all the anguish 71 00:04:53,640 --> 00:04:57,680 Speaker 1: and the symptoms of psychiatrist Saul. Dr Gordon is known 72 00:04:57,760 --> 00:05:02,840 Speaker 1: for dealing specifically with popular latianwide psychological trauma from the 73 00:05:02,839 --> 00:05:07,680 Speaker 1: effects of war, school shootings, or natural disasters, and he's 74 00:05:07,800 --> 00:05:11,559 Speaker 1: using his new book, Transforming Trauma, The Path to Hope 75 00:05:11,560 --> 00:05:15,520 Speaker 1: and Healing to pass on his decade's worth of knowledge 76 00:05:15,839 --> 00:05:18,800 Speaker 1: to give people a step by step guide book to 77 00:05:18,960 --> 00:05:22,599 Speaker 1: coming into balance and then using your imagination and reaching 78 00:05:22,640 --> 00:05:25,839 Speaker 1: out to other people. Now. I met Dr Gordon, or 79 00:05:25,920 --> 00:05:30,160 Speaker 1: Jim as I know him, in after Haiti's devastating earthquake. 80 00:05:30,680 --> 00:05:33,719 Speaker 1: I was traveling down to Port of Prince frequently to 81 00:05:33,760 --> 00:05:37,400 Speaker 1: report on the aftermath and recovery, and Jim was there 82 00:05:37,440 --> 00:05:41,080 Speaker 1: with his center to work with Hades children, many of 83 00:05:41,080 --> 00:05:45,960 Speaker 1: whom had been orphaned and their homes destroyed. Jim says 84 00:05:46,040 --> 00:05:49,440 Speaker 1: that earthquake is a good example of a massive event 85 00:05:49,520 --> 00:05:53,640 Speaker 1: that brings about not only individual trauma, but trauma that 86 00:05:53,760 --> 00:05:59,040 Speaker 1: the community has to grapple with together. That's collective trauma. 87 00:05:59,480 --> 00:06:02,080 Speaker 1: And we could see as we talked with those kids 88 00:06:02,080 --> 00:06:04,520 Speaker 1: whom we were meeting at the hospital, each of those 89 00:06:04,600 --> 00:06:09,080 Speaker 1: kids also had an individual problem physical injury, loss of 90 00:06:09,080 --> 00:06:12,760 Speaker 1: a family member, but the whole society was effective and 91 00:06:12,800 --> 00:06:17,080 Speaker 1: that's what we're seeing here. First and foremost I want 92 00:06:17,120 --> 00:06:20,599 Speaker 1: to say before we dive into this pandemic which has 93 00:06:20,680 --> 00:06:24,680 Speaker 1: resulted in so much collective trauma. Jim is, I'm so 94 00:06:24,720 --> 00:06:28,080 Speaker 1: sorry about your brother who died at the beginning of 95 00:06:28,120 --> 00:06:31,520 Speaker 1: the pandemic. Do you mind sharing what happened with us 96 00:06:32,160 --> 00:06:36,880 Speaker 1: now what happened? I may start crying so because I'm 97 00:06:36,960 --> 00:06:41,200 Speaker 1: missing so much. What what is might owner brother younger 98 00:06:41,240 --> 00:06:46,480 Speaker 1: by thirteen years, and he had some kind of respiratory 99 00:06:46,520 --> 00:06:50,800 Speaker 1: problem sinus infection. Is living in Dallas, Texas. He was 100 00:06:50,839 --> 00:06:53,680 Speaker 1: doing okay, and the doctor said he was doing okay. 101 00:06:54,400 --> 00:06:59,120 Speaker 1: He just declined. Nobody pushed him to go see a doctor. 102 00:06:59,360 --> 00:07:03,240 Speaker 1: Everybody was staying home at that point, and so he 103 00:07:03,400 --> 00:07:08,159 Speaker 1: just died. He died alone at home, and it was 104 00:07:08,279 --> 00:07:11,120 Speaker 1: tragic for for me and for my other brother and 105 00:07:11,160 --> 00:07:13,840 Speaker 1: for a lot of people who loved him. And we 106 00:07:14,200 --> 00:07:17,920 Speaker 1: never were positive it was COVID, but but it certainly 107 00:07:17,960 --> 00:07:20,200 Speaker 1: looked like it was COVID nineteen. Were never able to 108 00:07:20,240 --> 00:07:23,000 Speaker 1: get a test. And I think that in addition to 109 00:07:23,160 --> 00:07:27,760 Speaker 1: it being almost certainly COVID nineteen, the fact that nobody 110 00:07:27,880 --> 00:07:31,520 Speaker 1: checked up on it was a product of the pandemic 111 00:07:31,840 --> 00:07:35,040 Speaker 1: as well, so that nobody would go Nobody went over 112 00:07:35,280 --> 00:07:37,640 Speaker 1: to to see how he was doing, even when he 113 00:07:37,680 --> 00:07:41,560 Speaker 1: didn't respond that he was very responsive person. And then, 114 00:07:41,600 --> 00:07:45,200 Speaker 1: of course after he died, we weren't really able to 115 00:07:45,680 --> 00:07:49,680 Speaker 1: gather together two mourn so my other brother took care 116 00:07:49,720 --> 00:07:51,520 Speaker 1: of the business that had to be taken care of. 117 00:07:52,600 --> 00:07:56,400 Speaker 1: What's important, aside from the personal loss and maybe helpful 118 00:07:56,440 --> 00:08:01,600 Speaker 1: to other people, is that I gave Eve myself time 119 00:08:01,920 --> 00:08:06,000 Speaker 1: to mourn. So every day for months after he died, 120 00:08:06,280 --> 00:08:10,080 Speaker 1: I cried, and I set aside time since I got 121 00:08:10,160 --> 00:08:13,040 Speaker 1: up every morning and I could feel the weight in 122 00:08:13,160 --> 00:08:15,760 Speaker 1: my chest, and I allowed myself to take some time 123 00:08:15,800 --> 00:08:19,040 Speaker 1: to cry and sometimes yell and scream you know, why 124 00:08:19,080 --> 00:08:21,360 Speaker 1: did this have to happen? Why? You know? And I 125 00:08:21,480 --> 00:08:25,760 Speaker 1: miss him so much, and I gave myself time to mourn. 126 00:08:25,880 --> 00:08:28,280 Speaker 1: So even though I couldn't do it in person with 127 00:08:28,320 --> 00:08:31,560 Speaker 1: other people, I was able to go through that experience. 128 00:08:32,240 --> 00:08:34,600 Speaker 1: And that's crucial, I think. And this is one of 129 00:08:34,600 --> 00:08:37,320 Speaker 1: the things that people are deprived of during this pandemic, 130 00:08:38,040 --> 00:08:40,840 Speaker 1: is that talk to Morton. This is just one of 131 00:08:40,880 --> 00:08:43,520 Speaker 1: a myriad of ways I think, Jim, that the pandemic 132 00:08:43,600 --> 00:08:47,400 Speaker 1: has affected us individually and collectively. Some people have lost 133 00:08:47,440 --> 00:08:50,680 Speaker 1: their loved ones. Some people have lost their jobs. Some people, 134 00:08:50,960 --> 00:08:55,000 Speaker 1: quite frankly, have lost both. Some have lost the experience 135 00:08:55,040 --> 00:08:59,080 Speaker 1: of working outside the home and feel restricted in their environments. 136 00:08:59,200 --> 00:09:03,479 Speaker 1: Some people have the loss of their children. Getting a 137 00:09:03,559 --> 00:09:07,880 Speaker 1: kind of more traditional conventional education, UM it seems there 138 00:09:07,880 --> 00:09:14,040 Speaker 1: have been such varying degrees of loss, and yet collectively 139 00:09:14,679 --> 00:09:16,920 Speaker 1: it's had a huge impact on all of us. Can 140 00:09:17,000 --> 00:09:22,520 Speaker 1: you can you talk about that? Well? I think there 141 00:09:22,640 --> 00:09:26,800 Speaker 1: is a sense of uncertainty among all of us, and 142 00:09:27,200 --> 00:09:31,079 Speaker 1: the ones who manifest it, particularly that I've observed are 143 00:09:31,160 --> 00:09:33,800 Speaker 1: young people who are coming out of college or going 144 00:09:33,840 --> 00:09:38,800 Speaker 1: into college, But there is a feeling of what's going 145 00:09:38,840 --> 00:09:41,840 Speaker 1: to happen, what's the world going to be like? Is 146 00:09:41,880 --> 00:09:47,560 Speaker 1: there a place for me? Plus they're being deprived of 147 00:09:47,840 --> 00:09:52,880 Speaker 1: what we have in our society, that the rights of passage, 148 00:09:53,280 --> 00:09:56,960 Speaker 1: that we ordinarily have, the rights of graduation, of problems 149 00:09:57,120 --> 00:10:01,240 Speaker 1: of being together away from home, them away from family 150 00:10:01,559 --> 00:10:04,800 Speaker 1: at college or university, or or in fact at work. 151 00:10:05,360 --> 00:10:08,680 Speaker 1: So there is a sense of being thrown off. And 152 00:10:08,720 --> 00:10:11,360 Speaker 1: I think those young people have an eighteen year old 153 00:10:11,400 --> 00:10:14,199 Speaker 1: son and I can see and feel it in him 154 00:10:14,320 --> 00:10:18,400 Speaker 1: very much, and they are kind of the canaries in 155 00:10:18,480 --> 00:10:22,040 Speaker 1: this coal mine of collective trauma right now. The the 156 00:10:22,120 --> 00:10:27,600 Speaker 1: other group that's experiencing it are the most obvious, perhaps 157 00:10:28,200 --> 00:10:33,520 Speaker 1: our healthcare providers, frontline healthcare providers. So not only are 158 00:10:33,559 --> 00:10:38,760 Speaker 1: they being traumatized by the threats the physical threats to 159 00:10:38,840 --> 00:10:42,840 Speaker 1: their health and well being. They're also overwhelmed by what 160 00:10:42,920 --> 00:10:46,520 Speaker 1: they have to deal with, by that the quantity of death, 161 00:10:46,960 --> 00:10:50,280 Speaker 1: and by their inability to do very much about it. 162 00:10:50,400 --> 00:10:52,800 Speaker 1: That's what I hear again and again from them. We 163 00:10:53,320 --> 00:10:55,559 Speaker 1: you know, we we feel so, you know, we were 164 00:10:55,600 --> 00:10:58,840 Speaker 1: trained to help people, and there's so little we can 165 00:10:58,880 --> 00:11:04,320 Speaker 1: do in this circumstan. And also anybody who is a 166 00:11:04,360 --> 00:11:08,160 Speaker 1: member of a minority, anybody who is operating on a 167 00:11:08,240 --> 00:11:15,560 Speaker 1: marginal uh you know income, they're all traumatized because you know, 168 00:11:15,640 --> 00:11:18,880 Speaker 1: there's been a whole lot of hostility against people who 169 00:11:18,960 --> 00:11:23,640 Speaker 1: are black or brown Native people and they're dying at 170 00:11:23,720 --> 00:11:26,840 Speaker 1: much higher right, So it brings rates, I'm sorry, So 171 00:11:26,960 --> 00:11:31,199 Speaker 1: it brings up that previous trauma as well. So it's 172 00:11:31,240 --> 00:11:35,480 Speaker 1: it's seeping through the whole society. And when those of 173 00:11:35,559 --> 00:11:38,760 Speaker 1: us who are more fortunate perhaps and are able to 174 00:11:38,800 --> 00:11:42,280 Speaker 1: do work from home, we're feeling it too, because it's 175 00:11:42,360 --> 00:11:47,040 Speaker 1: like the the lion is just outside the gates. There's 176 00:11:47,240 --> 00:11:50,520 Speaker 1: there's an anxiety about going out and when can I 177 00:11:50,559 --> 00:11:52,000 Speaker 1: do and what can I do? So I would say 178 00:11:52,040 --> 00:11:55,720 Speaker 1: there's a general uncertainty, and of course the political situation 179 00:11:55,760 --> 00:12:00,120 Speaker 1: has compounded that uncertainty, what's going to happen and what 180 00:12:00,320 --> 00:12:03,080 Speaker 1: is it going to look like in the future, and 181 00:12:03,160 --> 00:12:08,800 Speaker 1: people just understandably, we simply don't know what happens with 182 00:12:08,920 --> 00:12:14,080 Speaker 1: communal trauma when everyone is affected, how does it impact 183 00:12:14,120 --> 00:12:17,120 Speaker 1: the community, because it seems to me there are all 184 00:12:17,360 --> 00:12:23,080 Speaker 1: kinds of of psychological issues that are bubbling very close 185 00:12:23,120 --> 00:12:27,920 Speaker 1: to the surface, if not exploding through. Well. I think 186 00:12:27,960 --> 00:12:30,800 Speaker 1: the first thing is to understand that trauma affects us 187 00:12:30,800 --> 00:12:35,160 Speaker 1: on a biological level, and the two basic responses that 188 00:12:35,200 --> 00:12:40,040 Speaker 1: we have two loss of someone, to threats from outside, 189 00:12:40,080 --> 00:12:43,360 Speaker 1: to worries about the economy, to lack of control. By 190 00:12:43,360 --> 00:12:48,040 Speaker 1: the way, lack of control is, it's a threat and 191 00:12:48,120 --> 00:12:52,680 Speaker 1: it's a and we react. We humans react to these 192 00:12:52,720 --> 00:12:56,600 Speaker 1: sort of psychological, social, as well as physical threats as 193 00:12:56,640 --> 00:12:58,760 Speaker 1: if it were a threat to our life, and we 194 00:12:58,840 --> 00:13:02,760 Speaker 1: go into fight or flight response, just as if a 195 00:13:02,800 --> 00:13:06,160 Speaker 1: lion were actually chasing us. It may be, you know, 196 00:13:06,240 --> 00:13:08,400 Speaker 1: we're scared about what's going to happen with our work, 197 00:13:08,559 --> 00:13:12,640 Speaker 1: or we're worried about COVID nineteen, and we become Our 198 00:13:12,679 --> 00:13:17,360 Speaker 1: heart races, our blood pressure goes up, our muscles get tense. 199 00:13:17,480 --> 00:13:20,280 Speaker 1: The part of our brain responsible for fear and anger 200 00:13:20,720 --> 00:13:25,280 Speaker 1: fires off more parts of our brain responsible for thoughtful 201 00:13:25,320 --> 00:13:29,679 Speaker 1: decision making and self awareness, and compassion shuts down. It's 202 00:13:29,720 --> 00:13:32,440 Speaker 1: harder to connect with other people. And then if you 203 00:13:32,840 --> 00:13:36,600 Speaker 1: play that out in the social realm, if you're more 204 00:13:36,640 --> 00:13:40,080 Speaker 1: anxious and irritable, you're gonna deal with people in a 205 00:13:40,160 --> 00:13:42,880 Speaker 1: more anxious and irritable way. It's going to be harder 206 00:13:42,920 --> 00:13:45,840 Speaker 1: to connect with them. Plus, you're in a state, if 207 00:13:45,880 --> 00:13:49,680 Speaker 1: you're in a fight or flight state where your biology 208 00:13:49,800 --> 00:13:52,760 Speaker 1: is saying, you know, your life is at stake, it's 209 00:13:52,760 --> 00:13:56,400 Speaker 1: not so easy to connect with other people. So the 210 00:13:56,520 --> 00:14:02,360 Speaker 1: individual response to trauma, that individual fighter light response also 211 00:14:02,440 --> 00:14:06,319 Speaker 1: manifests in social and collective ways. Well, if that part 212 00:14:06,320 --> 00:14:10,040 Speaker 1: of your brain that helps you understand and have compassion 213 00:14:10,160 --> 00:14:13,920 Speaker 1: isn't working so well, it tends to contribute to the 214 00:14:13,960 --> 00:14:17,560 Speaker 1: polarization that we see in our society, the fear of 215 00:14:17,640 --> 00:14:20,440 Speaker 1: the other. And I think, I think, you know, people 216 00:14:20,560 --> 00:14:23,560 Speaker 1: have ways of looking at the world that they've held 217 00:14:23,640 --> 00:14:26,840 Speaker 1: long before this pandemic. But I think with the trauma 218 00:14:27,000 --> 00:14:31,640 Speaker 1: of the pandemic and of uh, you know, very visible, 219 00:14:31,720 --> 00:14:38,200 Speaker 1: palpable political division that's exacerbating the situation that's that's throwing that, 220 00:14:38,200 --> 00:14:42,440 Speaker 1: that's lighting the fire. The gasoline was there, but this 221 00:14:42,560 --> 00:14:46,280 Speaker 1: is the match that's made people so both so fearful 222 00:14:46,520 --> 00:14:50,600 Speaker 1: and so angry, and made it even more difficult to 223 00:14:51,200 --> 00:14:54,880 Speaker 1: connect with and have compassion for the other. So I 224 00:14:54,880 --> 00:14:58,560 Speaker 1: think the trauma has precipitated a lot of the difficulties 225 00:14:58,600 --> 00:15:01,720 Speaker 1: that we see socially and lyrically, and certainly for people 226 00:15:01,760 --> 00:15:05,760 Speaker 1: of color, it's made them far more fearful. It's also 227 00:15:05,880 --> 00:15:09,760 Speaker 1: made them more likely to be targets of, you know, 228 00:15:09,760 --> 00:15:13,920 Speaker 1: whether it's a white supremacists or of anxious police. We 229 00:15:14,000 --> 00:15:15,960 Speaker 1: work a lot with police at the center from Mind 230 00:15:15,960 --> 00:15:19,520 Speaker 1: body Medicine. They're very much on edge there on the 231 00:15:19,560 --> 00:15:24,480 Speaker 1: front lines, and that doesn't improve their judgment, doesn't improve 232 00:15:24,600 --> 00:15:28,680 Speaker 1: their capacity to deal with really challenging situations with the 233 00:15:28,800 --> 00:15:34,600 Speaker 1: calm and understanding that that's needed. What about generational trauma? 234 00:15:34,720 --> 00:15:39,720 Speaker 1: You know, we hear about you know, trauma being passed 235 00:15:39,760 --> 00:15:44,680 Speaker 1: down and I'm curious, is there a physiological aspect to 236 00:15:44,760 --> 00:15:49,480 Speaker 1: this or is it, uh, you know, just shared collective memory. 237 00:15:50,480 --> 00:15:54,240 Speaker 1: What have you learned about that? It's it's both. So, 238 00:15:54,320 --> 00:15:57,360 Speaker 1: for example, if you are a black person in the 239 00:15:57,480 --> 00:16:02,400 Speaker 1: United States, you're dealing if what's been passed down through 240 00:16:02,440 --> 00:16:04,840 Speaker 1: the family, but what people who are telling you about 241 00:16:04,920 --> 00:16:09,280 Speaker 1: what happened to ancestor slavery and what happened during reconstruction 242 00:16:09,640 --> 00:16:13,000 Speaker 1: and what happened more recently during Jim Crow era, and 243 00:16:13,040 --> 00:16:17,360 Speaker 1: then you're experiencing it in your life now because there 244 00:16:17,520 --> 00:16:22,040 Speaker 1: is still systemic racism in our society. So that's and 245 00:16:22,080 --> 00:16:28,360 Speaker 1: then every incident exacerbates that pain and that trauma. In addition, 246 00:16:28,920 --> 00:16:34,960 Speaker 1: there is this biological passing down of trauma, and the 247 00:16:35,040 --> 00:16:39,800 Speaker 1: way it seems to go is that when we are traumatized, 248 00:16:39,960 --> 00:16:45,160 Speaker 1: often there are changes in structures in our chromosomes that 249 00:16:45,320 --> 00:16:49,000 Speaker 1: in turn affect the genes. So this is not like 250 00:16:49,080 --> 00:16:51,840 Speaker 1: what we learned about in eighth grade science, where X 251 00:16:51,920 --> 00:16:56,560 Speaker 1: rays you create physical damage to the genes. These are 252 00:16:56,760 --> 00:17:01,360 Speaker 1: changes in molecules that are on the chromosomes, in the chromosomes, 253 00:17:01,480 --> 00:17:06,600 Speaker 1: and they're called epigenetic changes. EPI means above and Greek, 254 00:17:07,320 --> 00:17:10,320 Speaker 1: and these changes in these molecules, one of them is 255 00:17:10,320 --> 00:17:15,760 Speaker 1: the methyl molecule one carbon three hydrogen atoms. When those 256 00:17:15,840 --> 00:17:19,280 Speaker 1: changes occur, it affects the way the genes act in 257 00:17:19,359 --> 00:17:22,800 Speaker 1: the body. So let's say we've experienced a major trauma, 258 00:17:23,400 --> 00:17:27,879 Speaker 1: that may those epigenetic changes affect genes that help us 259 00:17:27,920 --> 00:17:32,159 Speaker 1: to deal with stress. So if I've been traumatized before, 260 00:17:32,960 --> 00:17:36,760 Speaker 1: I may have more difficulty dealing with stress because of 261 00:17:36,800 --> 00:17:41,399 Speaker 1: these changes in my chromosomes. Now that's in this lifetime. 262 00:17:42,200 --> 00:17:47,520 Speaker 1: When women are pregnant and have been traumatized, those changes 263 00:17:47,600 --> 00:17:51,600 Speaker 1: are transmitted to the child in utero, and those children 264 00:17:51,760 --> 00:17:57,040 Speaker 1: have these epigenetic changes not always but often. And also, 265 00:17:58,240 --> 00:18:03,800 Speaker 1: and this is positively biblical, the changes can be transmitted 266 00:18:04,880 --> 00:18:08,119 Speaker 1: through three generations. We have seen this. This research that 267 00:18:08,240 --> 00:18:11,520 Speaker 1: was done in New York, very striking research by Rachel 268 00:18:11,640 --> 00:18:16,119 Speaker 1: Yehuda Non Sinai Medical School on the children and grandchildren 269 00:18:16,200 --> 00:18:22,119 Speaker 1: of Holocaust survivors. And even these children and grandchildren, many 270 00:18:22,160 --> 00:18:26,879 Speaker 1: of them at the same epigenetic changes in their chromosomes 271 00:18:27,200 --> 00:18:31,000 Speaker 1: which made them more vulnerable to stress. And what was 272 00:18:31,040 --> 00:18:34,800 Speaker 1: so striking about the research is that you could see 273 00:18:34,880 --> 00:18:38,720 Speaker 1: the same changes even in children and grandchildren who grew 274 00:18:38,800 --> 00:18:45,080 Speaker 1: up apart from the Holocaust. So it wasn't social interpersonal influence. 275 00:18:45,400 --> 00:18:49,720 Speaker 1: This is a biological change that happens. How can you 276 00:18:50,600 --> 00:18:54,520 Speaker 1: begin to heal from trauma? How can you be in 277 00:18:54,520 --> 00:18:58,280 Speaker 1: a better balance, and what are the tools that everyone 278 00:18:58,480 --> 00:19:03,200 Speaker 1: can can take advantage of. The first understanding is that 279 00:19:03,480 --> 00:19:06,880 Speaker 1: trauma does affect us, and then it's going to come 280 00:19:06,960 --> 00:19:10,040 Speaker 1: sooner or later to all of us. Doesn't mean you're crazy, 281 00:19:10,200 --> 00:19:13,280 Speaker 1: doesn't mean you're abnormal. That you need to pay attention 282 00:19:13,520 --> 00:19:16,720 Speaker 1: to the way the trauma has affected you, whether it's 283 00:19:16,760 --> 00:19:21,000 Speaker 1: present trauma or past trauma. The second piece that's really 284 00:19:21,040 --> 00:19:25,359 Speaker 1: important is to understand that it is possible to change, 285 00:19:26,040 --> 00:19:29,920 Speaker 1: to move through and beyond the trauma. And that's one 286 00:19:29,960 --> 00:19:32,160 Speaker 1: of the reasons that I tell stories in the book 287 00:19:32,200 --> 00:19:34,960 Speaker 1: of people who have done that, who have gone from 288 00:19:35,000 --> 00:19:39,359 Speaker 1: being horribly traumatized, whether it's by wars or by terrible 289 00:19:39,480 --> 00:19:42,679 Speaker 1: physical and sexual abuse when they were children, who have 290 00:19:42,760 --> 00:19:45,880 Speaker 1: grown up to be remarkable adults, or who have as 291 00:19:45,920 --> 00:19:51,240 Speaker 1: adults changed profoundly, and then giving people very practical tools 292 00:19:51,440 --> 00:19:55,360 Speaker 1: I teach people. And you're breathing slowly and deeply right now. 293 00:19:55,840 --> 00:19:59,359 Speaker 1: I know because I know what you're gonna say, and 294 00:19:59,440 --> 00:20:02,600 Speaker 1: I but I want to do it and I need 295 00:20:02,680 --> 00:20:08,080 Speaker 1: to do it. We are talking about meditation or mindfulness exercises. 296 00:20:08,880 --> 00:20:11,679 Speaker 1: What I teach is so simple, it's so easy. Just 297 00:20:11,760 --> 00:20:15,120 Speaker 1: breathe slowly and deeply, in through the nose and out 298 00:20:15,160 --> 00:20:18,359 Speaker 1: through the mouth, with your belly soft and relaxed. That 299 00:20:18,680 --> 00:20:22,480 Speaker 1: is the antidote to the fight or flight response. That's 300 00:20:22,520 --> 00:20:26,760 Speaker 1: what begins to bring our brains fully back online. We 301 00:20:26,960 --> 00:20:30,720 Speaker 1: decrease activity in that o magdala in the center of 302 00:20:30,800 --> 00:20:34,600 Speaker 1: fear and anger. We increase activity in our frontal cortex 303 00:20:34,640 --> 00:20:38,399 Speaker 1: in the areas of thoughtful decision making and self awareness 304 00:20:38,400 --> 00:20:43,840 Speaker 1: and compassion, and simply relaxing with our breath makes it 305 00:20:43,880 --> 00:20:47,080 Speaker 1: easier to connect with each other. So that's one technique. 306 00:20:47,480 --> 00:20:52,440 Speaker 1: Second one that's really important is movement, moving the body excers. 307 00:20:52,600 --> 00:20:55,600 Speaker 1: I know you know this. The the enormous value of 308 00:20:55,640 --> 00:20:59,159 Speaker 1: moving our bodies and decreasing our level of stress and 309 00:20:59,320 --> 00:21:03,440 Speaker 1: in proving our mood. Exercise is is good a treatment 310 00:21:03,520 --> 00:21:07,439 Speaker 1: for anxiety and depression as anything we have available on 311 00:21:07,480 --> 00:21:11,280 Speaker 1: the plat. And then we teach them expressive meditations because 312 00:21:11,320 --> 00:21:14,239 Speaker 1: one of the things that terrible things that happens with 313 00:21:14,320 --> 00:21:17,399 Speaker 1: trauma is in addition to going into fight or flight, 314 00:21:17,480 --> 00:21:22,640 Speaker 1: which continues sometimes if the trauma is overwhelming and inescapable, 315 00:21:22,720 --> 00:21:25,399 Speaker 1: as it has been for many people during this period 316 00:21:25,440 --> 00:21:29,280 Speaker 1: of pandemic is they just shut down. They freeze because 317 00:21:29,840 --> 00:21:33,280 Speaker 1: there's nothing to do. So at that point we shut 318 00:21:33,320 --> 00:21:36,600 Speaker 1: down physically and I'm sort of punching over a little here. 319 00:21:37,000 --> 00:21:41,000 Speaker 1: We shut down emotionally. We gnumb ourselves to the pain. 320 00:21:41,680 --> 00:21:45,840 Speaker 1: And expressive meditations shaking and dancing, fast, deep breathing, laugh 321 00:21:45,920 --> 00:21:50,639 Speaker 1: and jumping up and down, shouting, crying, those helped to 322 00:21:50,720 --> 00:21:55,880 Speaker 1: break up the freeze response, so we come back into balance. 323 00:21:56,600 --> 00:21:59,640 Speaker 1: And the more balance, the more we're in a state 324 00:21:59,680 --> 00:22:03,199 Speaker 1: of Balt's, the easier it is to use all the 325 00:22:03,280 --> 00:22:07,280 Speaker 1: self care techniques, The easier it is to use guided 326 00:22:07,359 --> 00:22:10,920 Speaker 1: mental imagery to help us solve problems and I think 327 00:22:10,960 --> 00:22:13,560 Speaker 1: through issues that are confounding. The easier it is you 328 00:22:13,800 --> 00:22:17,840 Speaker 1: to express ourselves in words or drawings, or the more 329 00:22:17,880 --> 00:22:20,520 Speaker 1: we can get out of doing something simple like watching 330 00:22:20,800 --> 00:22:23,960 Speaker 1: a TV show or reading a book or reading a newspaper. 331 00:22:24,000 --> 00:22:27,240 Speaker 1: We're relaxed, We're getting more out of it, We're moving 332 00:22:27,320 --> 00:22:35,320 Speaker 1: back into a more balanced vote normal life. Coming up 333 00:22:35,400 --> 00:22:40,400 Speaker 1: the share trauma of parenting through racism that's right after this. 334 00:22:47,640 --> 00:22:51,440 Speaker 1: There's a telling similarity in the deaths of George Floyd 335 00:22:51,560 --> 00:22:55,480 Speaker 1: last May and Dante write this past April It's a 336 00:22:55,560 --> 00:22:59,840 Speaker 1: detail that may not have gone unnoticed by parents, particularly 337 00:23:00,119 --> 00:23:04,080 Speaker 1: those raising black children, that in the final moments of 338 00:23:04,119 --> 00:23:08,879 Speaker 1: their lives, Dante Wright called his mom and George Floyd 339 00:23:08,960 --> 00:23:13,280 Speaker 1: yelled out for his Raising black children in the United 340 00:23:13,320 --> 00:23:16,639 Speaker 1: States can be really scary. Trina Green Brown is an 341 00:23:16,680 --> 00:23:20,160 Speaker 1: activist and mother of two in Los Angeles. My son 342 00:23:20,720 --> 00:23:24,840 Speaker 1: reminded me a lot of Trey von Martin in Tamir Rice, 343 00:23:25,560 --> 00:23:28,800 Speaker 1: and so when those cases came to the forefront and 344 00:23:28,840 --> 00:23:33,520 Speaker 1: we began proclaiming black lives matter, I began parenting from 345 00:23:33,520 --> 00:23:38,240 Speaker 1: a place of fear. So the experiences of Tamir Rice 346 00:23:38,400 --> 00:23:42,280 Speaker 1: planning a park and being gunned down in less than 347 00:23:42,280 --> 00:23:46,359 Speaker 1: a minute by law officer impacted the way that I 348 00:23:46,400 --> 00:23:48,800 Speaker 1: was parenting my little black boy, that he could no 349 00:23:48,840 --> 00:23:50,959 Speaker 1: longer go out to a park without me being present. 350 00:23:51,680 --> 00:23:55,200 Speaker 1: The impact of Trey Von Martin being murdered while wearing 351 00:23:55,240 --> 00:23:58,000 Speaker 1: a hoodie made me take all hoodies out of my house. 352 00:23:59,160 --> 00:24:01,919 Speaker 1: And so I really lies after a while that I 353 00:24:02,000 --> 00:24:05,160 Speaker 1: was beginning to parent from a place of fear, fear 354 00:24:05,280 --> 00:24:07,119 Speaker 1: that my child could be the next Mirror Rights or 355 00:24:07,160 --> 00:24:10,280 Speaker 1: the next trade By Martin. But my fear was not 356 00:24:10,359 --> 00:24:12,879 Speaker 1: only my fear was pushing me to be the police 357 00:24:12,920 --> 00:24:14,800 Speaker 1: in my own house, like there was no police, but 358 00:24:14,880 --> 00:24:18,240 Speaker 1: I started to police. I was allowing white supremacy to 359 00:24:18,240 --> 00:24:20,280 Speaker 1: show up in my parenting because I was so afraid, 360 00:24:20,320 --> 00:24:22,919 Speaker 1: and I didn't want that to happen. And so it 361 00:24:23,000 --> 00:24:26,320 Speaker 1: was in those moments when I would look into my 362 00:24:26,359 --> 00:24:31,639 Speaker 1: son's eyes and see him be afraid, are nervous because 363 00:24:31,680 --> 00:24:35,720 Speaker 1: my fear was being projected onto him. I knew I 364 00:24:35,720 --> 00:24:37,920 Speaker 1: didn't want that for him. I knew I wanted him 365 00:24:37,960 --> 00:24:40,680 Speaker 1: to feel pride. I wanted him to feel powerful. I 366 00:24:40,720 --> 00:24:43,320 Speaker 1: wanted him to feel a sense of agency. I didn't 367 00:24:43,359 --> 00:24:46,639 Speaker 1: want him to be afraid and feel less than. And 368 00:24:46,680 --> 00:24:48,320 Speaker 1: so I knew I needed to shift the way that 369 00:24:48,359 --> 00:24:53,639 Speaker 1: I was orienting myself in my parenting. In two thousand sixteen, 370 00:24:53,760 --> 00:24:58,960 Speaker 1: Trina founded Parenting for Liberation, a nonprofit organization whose mission 371 00:24:59,040 --> 00:25:03,880 Speaker 1: is to help encourage resilient and joyful Black families. Parenting 372 00:25:03,920 --> 00:25:08,719 Speaker 1: for Liberation is a nonprofit organization that really supports black 373 00:25:08,840 --> 00:25:12,760 Speaker 1: parents and raising liberated children, and we do that through 374 00:25:13,440 --> 00:25:16,560 Speaker 1: healing Justice as our framework that really looks at the 375 00:25:16,600 --> 00:25:22,280 Speaker 1: impacts of intergenerational trauma, ongoing trauma, systemic trauma and violence 376 00:25:22,320 --> 00:25:24,320 Speaker 1: that are experienced by folks who are black in the 377 00:25:24,400 --> 00:25:28,040 Speaker 1: United States. What that looked like was me connecting with 378 00:25:28,119 --> 00:25:30,479 Speaker 1: other black parents and learning from them about how did 379 00:25:30,480 --> 00:25:34,040 Speaker 1: they practice liberation in their parenting UM reading books and 380 00:25:34,160 --> 00:25:37,399 Speaker 1: learning about post traumatic slave syndrome and how that actually 381 00:25:37,480 --> 00:25:41,080 Speaker 1: impacts the way that we parent our children. And I 382 00:25:41,119 --> 00:25:43,880 Speaker 1: wanted to make a commitment to parents for liberation and 383 00:25:43,920 --> 00:25:48,120 Speaker 1: like in my home operationalized liberation and also through my parenting, 384 00:25:48,200 --> 00:25:51,680 Speaker 1: raised a liberated child and that resists all of the 385 00:25:51,800 --> 00:25:55,520 Speaker 1: negative and harmful narratives about what it means to be 386 00:25:55,560 --> 00:25:59,639 Speaker 1: black in this country. So literally, our existence and raising 387 00:25:59,640 --> 00:26:01,680 Speaker 1: our child in this way is a form of liberation. 388 00:26:04,000 --> 00:26:08,320 Speaker 1: The organization uses a whole range of resources like books, 389 00:26:08,359 --> 00:26:13,360 Speaker 1: of podcasts, and workshops to connect with and celebrate black parents. 390 00:26:14,160 --> 00:26:19,040 Speaker 1: I think healing looks like honoring Black culture and traditions, 391 00:26:19,480 --> 00:26:22,720 Speaker 1: Honoring our bodies, thinking about the way that we can 392 00:26:22,800 --> 00:26:26,960 Speaker 1: move our bodies and reconnect to our bodies, honoring our breast, 393 00:26:27,119 --> 00:26:31,520 Speaker 1: honoring our voice. That could look like singing together, chanting together, 394 00:26:31,600 --> 00:26:36,320 Speaker 1: humming together. That can look like um, reconnecting to Mother 395 00:26:36,400 --> 00:26:41,400 Speaker 1: Earth and reconnecting to herbs and medicine. There's something about 396 00:26:41,440 --> 00:26:48,440 Speaker 1: the connection to the medicinal offerings of Mother Nature, mother Earth, 397 00:26:48,840 --> 00:26:52,600 Speaker 1: and I feel like returning to those kind of indigenous 398 00:26:52,600 --> 00:26:56,280 Speaker 1: practices and ancestral practices UM are the ways that we 399 00:26:56,320 --> 00:27:01,000 Speaker 1: can heal. Also, the impact of weathering, like that whole 400 00:27:01,040 --> 00:27:04,280 Speaker 1: theory that like being black in this country, weather's on 401 00:27:04,280 --> 00:27:07,879 Speaker 1: our bodies right and makes us age quicker. It's not 402 00:27:07,920 --> 00:27:10,160 Speaker 1: about like, oh, go pop up hill and that's the solution. 403 00:27:10,520 --> 00:27:12,399 Speaker 1: It's about trying to get to the root cause of 404 00:27:12,440 --> 00:27:15,919 Speaker 1: the illness and figuring out what are the what are 405 00:27:16,080 --> 00:27:18,840 Speaker 1: Nature's and Mother Nature's gifts for us that we can 406 00:27:19,000 --> 00:27:25,320 Speaker 1: return to to heal ourselves. Parents and caliberation has three 407 00:27:25,320 --> 00:27:28,280 Speaker 1: buckets of work that we really operate in. One is 408 00:27:28,320 --> 00:27:32,120 Speaker 1: our healing justice work, and that really looks at healing 409 00:27:32,280 --> 00:27:36,960 Speaker 1: from a black diasporaic wisdom, right, like there's so many 410 00:27:37,040 --> 00:27:40,439 Speaker 1: black killers, UM, there's so much black wisdom around our 411 00:27:40,480 --> 00:27:44,040 Speaker 1: ability to identify trauma and heal from it. And so 412 00:27:44,119 --> 00:27:48,600 Speaker 1: we've partnered with UM organizations that have Black Hill healing 413 00:27:48,720 --> 00:27:53,359 Speaker 1: and wellness practitioners, whether they be ray key practitioners, therapists, coaches, 414 00:27:54,160 --> 00:27:57,680 Speaker 1: UM really tapping into like sound medicine and sound healing, 415 00:27:58,440 --> 00:28:01,160 Speaker 1: like how do we move trauma through our bodies through 416 00:28:01,560 --> 00:28:05,120 Speaker 1: um movements. The other bucket of our work is really 417 00:28:05,160 --> 00:28:08,159 Speaker 1: about shifting our parenting styles, so like un learning some 418 00:28:08,280 --> 00:28:12,359 Speaker 1: harmful parenting practices and trying on liberated parenting practices, and 419 00:28:12,400 --> 00:28:15,040 Speaker 1: so that comes through workshops. I have a book called 420 00:28:15,040 --> 00:28:18,199 Speaker 1: Parenting for Liberation, a Guide for raising Black Children. That 421 00:28:18,240 --> 00:28:22,040 Speaker 1: book is full with tools and ideas and practices from 422 00:28:22,080 --> 00:28:25,600 Speaker 1: over twenty different Black parents who are practicing liberation in 423 00:28:25,640 --> 00:28:28,440 Speaker 1: their homes UM. And also the learning also comes through 424 00:28:28,440 --> 00:28:33,680 Speaker 1: the podcast. I interview a variety of parents experts who 425 00:28:33,920 --> 00:28:37,159 Speaker 1: are raising Black children, and so in those conversations they 426 00:28:37,160 --> 00:28:39,360 Speaker 1: share a lot of knowledge. And then our third bucket 427 00:28:39,360 --> 00:28:42,680 Speaker 1: of work is around community. We really believe in that 428 00:28:42,760 --> 00:28:45,320 Speaker 1: African proverb that it takes the village to raise a child. 429 00:28:45,480 --> 00:28:49,600 Speaker 1: We believe that community care, community wellness, and community healing 430 00:28:49,760 --> 00:28:53,560 Speaker 1: is really a huge part of building this tribe to 431 00:28:53,680 --> 00:28:57,760 Speaker 1: raise liberated children. The way white supremacy is set up 432 00:28:57,840 --> 00:28:59,480 Speaker 1: is that it wants you to think that you're it's 433 00:28:59,520 --> 00:29:02,600 Speaker 1: just you, that there's just something inherently wrong with you, 434 00:29:03,240 --> 00:29:06,520 Speaker 1: and it's working for everyone else, and no it's not 435 00:29:06,640 --> 00:29:08,960 Speaker 1: just you. You're not it's not just your kid who's 436 00:29:09,000 --> 00:29:12,800 Speaker 1: getting racially profiled at school. When you bring everybody together, 437 00:29:12,840 --> 00:29:14,640 Speaker 1: you might find out like, oh, this is actually what 438 00:29:14,960 --> 00:29:18,000 Speaker 1: ingrained into the school climate, right, That it's not just me. 439 00:29:18,760 --> 00:29:20,800 Speaker 1: My child is not just the issue, or I'm not 440 00:29:20,880 --> 00:29:23,960 Speaker 1: just inept right, um, And so I'll bringing folks together 441 00:29:24,080 --> 00:29:26,280 Speaker 1: is also a way for folks to be able to 442 00:29:26,320 --> 00:29:29,280 Speaker 1: make those connections. That it's not an individualized thing. This 443 00:29:29,320 --> 00:29:33,480 Speaker 1: is a systemic thing. Um, It's not an individualized experience 444 00:29:33,520 --> 00:29:37,320 Speaker 1: of trauma. This is rooted in our country's history, and 445 00:29:37,360 --> 00:29:41,640 Speaker 1: the pandemic has only strengthened Trina's resolve and the dedication 446 00:29:41,680 --> 00:29:46,240 Speaker 1: of the community. She started to acknowledge trauma and learn 447 00:29:46,320 --> 00:29:49,800 Speaker 1: ways to grow from it together. COVID has really shown 448 00:29:50,000 --> 00:29:56,240 Speaker 1: how freaking innovative our community is, Like the ability to 449 00:29:56,320 --> 00:30:00,240 Speaker 1: create new resources or to find ways to maintain haying 450 00:30:00,240 --> 00:30:03,720 Speaker 1: connection even when we're distancing. Like I've just been able 451 00:30:03,760 --> 00:30:07,480 Speaker 1: to also see the innovation and creative spirit of black 452 00:30:07,480 --> 00:30:10,160 Speaker 1: people to like make those connections still happen. You know, 453 00:30:10,320 --> 00:30:13,400 Speaker 1: I've been to so many zoom birthday parties, baby showers, 454 00:30:14,480 --> 00:30:17,240 Speaker 1: all the things like we're finding ways. You know, we 455 00:30:17,280 --> 00:30:20,080 Speaker 1: had a whaling circle where we just had facilitators who 456 00:30:20,160 --> 00:30:22,400 Speaker 1: helped us move through grief because so many people are 457 00:30:22,440 --> 00:30:26,000 Speaker 1: losing people Like those are the ways UM. Some of 458 00:30:26,040 --> 00:30:29,360 Speaker 1: its innovative and some of it is ancestral. I feel 459 00:30:29,400 --> 00:30:31,040 Speaker 1: like this is a moment where we're returning to our 460 00:30:31,080 --> 00:30:34,160 Speaker 1: ancestral ways of being. Like welling circles is something that 461 00:30:34,640 --> 00:30:37,520 Speaker 1: UM has always happened, you know, in the continent, and 462 00:30:37,960 --> 00:30:41,120 Speaker 1: us practicing and here in this moment, and so I 463 00:30:41,200 --> 00:30:46,520 Speaker 1: just really am appreciating seeing us reclaiming our Black traditions 464 00:30:46,520 --> 00:30:55,240 Speaker 1: prior to colonization and enslavement. When we come back the 465 00:30:55,360 --> 00:31:14,280 Speaker 1: transformational properties of so we that's right after that. I 466 00:31:14,360 --> 00:31:18,160 Speaker 1: grew up around selling. My mother sewed. My grandmother sewed. 467 00:31:18,640 --> 00:31:21,400 Speaker 1: My great grandmother who I had never met because she 468 00:31:21,560 --> 00:31:24,680 Speaker 1: passed away before I was born. Apparently she also did 469 00:31:24,720 --> 00:31:30,040 Speaker 1: some sewing. I really am a fourth generation seist. Lisa 470 00:31:30,080 --> 00:31:32,760 Speaker 1: wolf Fork is an Associate professor of English at the 471 00:31:32,840 --> 00:31:36,880 Speaker 1: University of Virginia, my alma mater, where she specializes in 472 00:31:36,920 --> 00:31:42,200 Speaker 1: African American literature and culture, and by vocation, I love 473 00:31:42,320 --> 00:31:49,000 Speaker 1: to sew. Sewing is a self care practice. I see 474 00:31:49,040 --> 00:31:51,400 Speaker 1: it as something that I do that I enjoy. It 475 00:31:51,480 --> 00:31:54,600 Speaker 1: allows me to escape from some of the day to 476 00:31:54,680 --> 00:31:58,880 Speaker 1: day stresses of everyday life. The transformative properties of sewing 477 00:31:59,200 --> 00:32:04,680 Speaker 1: to transfer warm a flat medium of fabric into a quilt, 478 00:32:05,200 --> 00:32:08,959 Speaker 1: into a garment that can be worn, into a handbag 479 00:32:09,080 --> 00:32:12,600 Speaker 1: or purse or backpack that can be carried there. There's 480 00:32:12,640 --> 00:32:17,040 Speaker 1: something about the spirit of making that I find incredibly 481 00:32:17,680 --> 00:32:23,280 Speaker 1: empowering and reassuring. And for that reason, sowing is really 482 00:32:23,360 --> 00:32:27,320 Speaker 1: important to me. It occupies a really important space in 483 00:32:27,400 --> 00:32:32,680 Speaker 1: my life. It has given me solace, is giving me 484 00:32:33,440 --> 00:32:37,800 Speaker 1: um uh, the delight of a creative edge. It has 485 00:32:37,880 --> 00:32:41,520 Speaker 1: really been something that is meaningful to me. When I'm 486 00:32:41,560 --> 00:32:45,080 Speaker 1: in my sowing happy space, that my soul is at ease. 487 00:32:47,480 --> 00:32:52,040 Speaker 1: But once I was going to sowing events and I 488 00:32:52,080 --> 00:32:56,000 Speaker 1: was going to sowing expos or sewing classes, it was 489 00:32:56,120 --> 00:32:58,800 Speaker 1: all white people and I was the only black person, 490 00:32:59,480 --> 00:33:02,800 Speaker 1: And so that started to warp my vision so much 491 00:33:02,840 --> 00:33:05,880 Speaker 1: that it almost felt like my own memory was being 492 00:33:05,880 --> 00:33:10,600 Speaker 1: expunged because I was so like I was looking around 493 00:33:10,600 --> 00:33:13,120 Speaker 1: at my context and it was just white, white, white, 494 00:33:13,120 --> 00:33:15,920 Speaker 1: white white. And I picked up the magazines and it 495 00:33:16,000 --> 00:33:19,000 Speaker 1: was white, white, white, and the se white magazines and 496 00:33:19,000 --> 00:33:24,280 Speaker 1: the quilting magazines all white. And so even though I 497 00:33:24,480 --> 00:33:27,640 Speaker 1: know that sewing is part of my ancestral story, I 498 00:33:27,680 --> 00:33:36,040 Speaker 1: couldn't see it reflected in the industry at all. But 499 00:33:36,200 --> 00:33:40,200 Speaker 1: my experience is actually very common. Black women are often 500 00:33:40,400 --> 00:33:45,480 Speaker 1: encouraged to recalibrate things to center ourselves. Instead, we are 501 00:33:45,520 --> 00:33:49,240 Speaker 1: invited to participate in events where whiteness and white people 502 00:33:49,280 --> 00:33:53,320 Speaker 1: are centered. But then they pretend like it's for everybody. 503 00:33:53,640 --> 00:33:57,560 Speaker 1: It's you know, what scholars call the universalization of whiteness. 504 00:33:57,560 --> 00:33:59,320 Speaker 1: Because I wanted to do the sewing, and I wanted 505 00:33:59,320 --> 00:34:01,280 Speaker 1: to do in a group context, I went with the 506 00:34:01,320 --> 00:34:04,520 Speaker 1: groups that were available, and the ones that were available 507 00:34:04,960 --> 00:34:13,160 Speaker 1: were older white women. But then Charlottesville happened. On August 508 00:34:13,200 --> 00:34:17,239 Speaker 1: eleven and twelfth, two thousand and seventeen, hundreds of white 509 00:34:17,320 --> 00:34:21,680 Speaker 1: supremacists and nationalists swarmed the college town of Charlottesville to 510 00:34:21,880 --> 00:34:25,800 Speaker 1: rally over plans to remove a statue of Robert E. Lee. 511 00:34:26,360 --> 00:34:29,200 Speaker 1: I was there, and I can tell you personally, the 512 00:34:29,239 --> 00:34:33,960 Speaker 1: weekend was a violent, terrifying one, and as an advocate 513 00:34:34,080 --> 00:34:37,680 Speaker 1: from Charlottesville, Lisa was in the thick of the counter 514 00:34:37,760 --> 00:34:45,600 Speaker 1: protests and someone ran in and said, they the white 515 00:34:45,600 --> 00:34:50,040 Speaker 1: supremacists are outside with fire. Stay where you are, and 516 00:34:50,120 --> 00:34:53,080 Speaker 1: we had to like sneak out of the side of 517 00:34:53,080 --> 00:34:54,600 Speaker 1: the building because we didn't know if they were going 518 00:34:54,640 --> 00:34:57,000 Speaker 1: to come over there. Like we didn't know what was 519 00:34:57,040 --> 00:35:00,080 Speaker 1: going to happen. And that was basically the recipe for 520 00:35:00,160 --> 00:35:02,680 Speaker 1: the weekend was like not knowing what was gonna happen, 521 00:35:03,200 --> 00:35:06,919 Speaker 1: not knowing what was happening. When a white nationalist drove 522 00:35:06,960 --> 00:35:11,560 Speaker 1: his car into a crowd of counter protesters, Lisa was nearby. 523 00:35:12,200 --> 00:35:16,319 Speaker 1: I happened to get separated from my group, which is 524 00:35:16,400 --> 00:35:21,359 Speaker 1: bad protocol, and that's when we hear this bang, this 525 00:35:21,360 --> 00:35:25,520 Speaker 1: this loud bang, and then I look up and there's 526 00:35:25,560 --> 00:35:29,279 Speaker 1: a shoe. Somebody's shoe is just in the air, and 527 00:35:29,320 --> 00:35:34,359 Speaker 1: I'm like, is someone throwing shoes? What is that? And 528 00:35:34,480 --> 00:35:37,160 Speaker 1: it was a person who had been hit by the 529 00:35:37,280 --> 00:35:40,680 Speaker 1: car and his body had flipped over and the fourth 530 00:35:40,800 --> 00:35:43,959 Speaker 1: was so strong that one of his shoes flew off 531 00:35:44,480 --> 00:35:50,120 Speaker 1: his body into the air, and from there it was chaos. 532 00:35:53,320 --> 00:36:01,240 Speaker 1: And so what I realized is that that experience left 533 00:36:01,480 --> 00:36:10,160 Speaker 1: me wounded. It left me hurt by racist trauma of 534 00:36:10,280 --> 00:36:15,160 Speaker 1: a terror attack. And then on top of that, the 535 00:36:15,160 --> 00:36:19,040 Speaker 1: then president said there were good people on both sides, 536 00:36:19,480 --> 00:36:22,840 Speaker 1: very fine people on both sides. You had people in 537 00:36:22,920 --> 00:36:27,120 Speaker 1: that group, excuse me me, And so that felt to 538 00:36:27,160 --> 00:36:30,200 Speaker 1: me like someone had just poured cold water over my head. 539 00:36:30,280 --> 00:36:32,399 Speaker 1: It was just dripping that it was. It was so 540 00:36:32,480 --> 00:36:35,759 Speaker 1: shocking I had I did not expect to be it was. 541 00:36:37,000 --> 00:36:39,840 Speaker 1: It was just terrible. It was just a bad bad 542 00:36:40,239 --> 00:36:44,720 Speaker 1: The whole of it was bad. Lisa turned to Sewing 543 00:36:45,120 --> 00:36:48,920 Speaker 1: her happy place, but within her own sewing group, she 544 00:36:49,080 --> 00:36:54,279 Speaker 1: was once again confronted by racism. I went to a 545 00:36:54,400 --> 00:36:57,759 Speaker 1: retreat in September of that year, which I should not 546 00:36:57,800 --> 00:37:00,759 Speaker 1: have done. It was a mistake in retrospecting to a 547 00:37:01,160 --> 00:37:06,120 Speaker 1: quick retreat in September of but I thought leaving Charlottesville 548 00:37:06,120 --> 00:37:09,000 Speaker 1: would be good. Get out of town, um go and 549 00:37:09,080 --> 00:37:12,480 Speaker 1: sew and just relax. But while I was there, people 550 00:37:12,680 --> 00:37:15,080 Speaker 1: knew I was there, and so they asked how I was, 551 00:37:15,200 --> 00:37:17,279 Speaker 1: and I would respond, oh, yeah, it was hard, and 552 00:37:17,920 --> 00:37:20,560 Speaker 1: you know, we woke up screaming for weeks. Is just 553 00:37:20,680 --> 00:37:25,000 Speaker 1: really difficult. And it turned out that me talking about 554 00:37:25,040 --> 00:37:28,120 Speaker 1: my experience like not. I didn't go there and start preaching. 555 00:37:28,200 --> 00:37:31,200 Speaker 1: I just went there to make some quick blocks, and 556 00:37:31,480 --> 00:37:34,719 Speaker 1: they're a rule had been made in my absence that 557 00:37:34,960 --> 00:37:39,480 Speaker 1: Charlottesville was not to be discussed. That was the rule, 558 00:37:40,400 --> 00:37:44,000 Speaker 1: and um, and so I was like, well, I don't 559 00:37:44,160 --> 00:37:46,200 Speaker 1: know what to do and should I just leave? Should 560 00:37:46,200 --> 00:37:48,479 Speaker 1: I just go home? If that's not that's the case, 561 00:37:48,520 --> 00:37:51,960 Speaker 1: And so I decided to stay. I stayed, and again 562 00:37:52,040 --> 00:37:55,000 Speaker 1: I never brought anything up. I was just responding to 563 00:37:55,120 --> 00:37:58,680 Speaker 1: questions that were asked of me. And then I went 564 00:37:58,719 --> 00:38:02,200 Speaker 1: home and a few days later I checked the mailbox 565 00:38:03,080 --> 00:38:07,799 Speaker 1: and when I opened the mailbox, my check for the 566 00:38:07,880 --> 00:38:15,520 Speaker 1: next year's event is in an envelope, no note, no nothing. 567 00:38:16,120 --> 00:38:19,560 Speaker 1: So me, still being me, I call around and I'm like, oh, 568 00:38:19,800 --> 00:38:23,120 Speaker 1: was the next event canceled? I'm just I'm just unsure. 569 00:38:23,120 --> 00:38:26,160 Speaker 1: I got my check back, and this woman who I 570 00:38:26,160 --> 00:38:29,320 Speaker 1: considered a friend, who had known for many years, said, oh, 571 00:38:29,520 --> 00:38:32,480 Speaker 1: I don't know, the event's not been canceled. The only 572 00:38:32,520 --> 00:38:34,560 Speaker 1: thing I can think of is that you broke the 573 00:38:34,640 --> 00:38:38,840 Speaker 1: rule about talking about Charlottesville, and that's why you can't 574 00:38:38,840 --> 00:38:42,320 Speaker 1: put And this is my favorite part. She said, I 575 00:38:43,080 --> 00:38:47,200 Speaker 1: would never say that she's prejudiced. I would never think 576 00:38:47,239 --> 00:38:50,160 Speaker 1: that this person was prejudiced, and that just doesn't seem 577 00:38:50,200 --> 00:38:57,480 Speaker 1: like it's me. I was heartbroken and embarrassed. I was 578 00:38:57,640 --> 00:39:02,360 Speaker 1: so embarrassed that I first I was heartbroken and it 579 00:39:02,480 --> 00:39:04,960 Speaker 1: just felt like cruelty on top of the trauma that 580 00:39:04,960 --> 00:39:10,040 Speaker 1: I had already faced. And then I was embarrassed, and 581 00:39:10,160 --> 00:39:12,959 Speaker 1: I just felt like, who did these people think I 582 00:39:13,000 --> 00:39:16,239 Speaker 1: was all this time? And it helped me understand that 583 00:39:16,360 --> 00:39:19,879 Speaker 1: I had gone from pet like being their only black 584 00:39:19,920 --> 00:39:27,280 Speaker 1: friend or whatever, from pet to threat. Lisa started Black 585 00:39:27,320 --> 00:39:31,680 Speaker 1: Women's Stitch in July of two eighteen. For me, Black 586 00:39:31,680 --> 00:39:38,319 Speaker 1: Women's Stitch is both a recovery effort, and by recovery 587 00:39:38,440 --> 00:39:43,160 Speaker 1: I mean my own like trauma healing, but also recovering 588 00:39:43,239 --> 00:39:48,160 Speaker 1: an ancestral story and thinking about sewing as an ancestral 589 00:39:48,200 --> 00:39:53,400 Speaker 1: craft and being willing to say this is what's important 590 00:39:53,440 --> 00:39:56,319 Speaker 1: to me, and I want to do it in a 591 00:39:56,360 --> 00:40:03,000 Speaker 1: way that serves my soul. Black life is already living 592 00:40:03,080 --> 00:40:06,560 Speaker 1: in what Christina Sharp calls in the wake of slavery. 593 00:40:06,600 --> 00:40:11,360 Speaker 1: That means all of these little ripples and reverberations from 594 00:40:11,400 --> 00:40:17,239 Speaker 1: the nineteenth century, the implications of slavery are still with us. 595 00:40:18,200 --> 00:40:19,920 Speaker 1: I'm not trying to say that black life is a 596 00:40:19,960 --> 00:40:22,320 Speaker 1: traumatic life as a whole. That's not what I'm saying. 597 00:40:22,520 --> 00:40:25,000 Speaker 1: I'm saying that there are certain things that Black folks 598 00:40:25,760 --> 00:40:29,200 Speaker 1: live and survive and experience as a matter of course, 599 00:40:30,000 --> 00:40:33,600 Speaker 1: that white people do not deal with. And so in 600 00:40:33,640 --> 00:40:36,960 Speaker 1: addition to dealing with these things that we do, we 601 00:40:37,000 --> 00:40:42,000 Speaker 1: can create a place of of comfort, of love, of support. 602 00:40:42,400 --> 00:40:44,120 Speaker 1: And Black folks have always done this. That's what the 603 00:40:44,160 --> 00:40:47,120 Speaker 1: Black churches, that's what you know, Like we have these things. 604 00:40:47,160 --> 00:40:51,000 Speaker 1: We create artist collectives, we create uh yoga groups, we 605 00:40:51,120 --> 00:40:54,960 Speaker 1: create you know, teachings and liberation workshops. We do these 606 00:40:55,000 --> 00:40:58,799 Speaker 1: things to care for ourselves because we deserve care so 607 00:40:59,000 --> 00:41:02,400 Speaker 1: and that kind of loving support. And if this was 608 00:41:02,440 --> 00:41:06,439 Speaker 1: going to be part of a recovery project, it had 609 00:41:06,520 --> 00:41:10,040 Speaker 1: to be something that wasn't just that it was motivated 610 00:41:10,080 --> 00:41:13,919 Speaker 1: by personal trauma, but it couldn't be limited only to that. 611 00:41:15,160 --> 00:41:20,120 Speaker 1: It is past time that sewing companies and pattern companies 612 00:41:20,160 --> 00:41:25,080 Speaker 1: and threat companies see black consumers as someone in the background. 613 00:41:25,520 --> 00:41:27,840 Speaker 1: And so for me to center black women, girls and 614 00:41:27,880 --> 00:41:31,000 Speaker 1: fems and sewing was to create the community of care 615 00:41:31,200 --> 00:41:35,960 Speaker 1: that I needed. And that's what Black Women's Stitches. Black 616 00:41:35,960 --> 00:41:39,000 Speaker 1: Women's Stitch began on Instagram, where Lisa was able to 617 00:41:39,040 --> 00:41:43,160 Speaker 1: connect online with other like minded black women. A court 618 00:41:43,160 --> 00:41:46,000 Speaker 1: group emerged, as well as events and even a podcast 619 00:41:46,080 --> 00:41:50,000 Speaker 1: called Stitch Please, And in March two thousand nineteen, Lisa 620 00:41:50,080 --> 00:41:54,120 Speaker 1: organized the first Retreat, a week of communal living, sewing, 621 00:41:54,360 --> 00:41:57,879 Speaker 1: and sharing. About a dozen women from as far as 622 00:41:57,960 --> 00:42:01,480 Speaker 1: Texas and California came together at a home in the 623 00:42:01,520 --> 00:42:05,400 Speaker 1: outer Banks of North Carolina. Lisa called it Beach Week, 624 00:42:06,239 --> 00:42:10,040 Speaker 1: and it changed their lives. It is really hard to 625 00:42:10,120 --> 00:42:15,920 Speaker 1: explain or summarize the nirvana of the first Beach Week 626 00:42:16,040 --> 00:42:20,840 Speaker 1: experience of twenty nineteen, because I wasn't the only person 627 00:42:20,960 --> 00:42:24,920 Speaker 1: that felt so moved by what we were able to 628 00:42:25,040 --> 00:42:29,319 Speaker 1: do by just getting together. This is another kind of 629 00:42:29,360 --> 00:42:34,839 Speaker 1: revolutionary act. In March, Black Women Stitch managed to hold 630 00:42:34,880 --> 00:42:38,680 Speaker 1: their second annual Beach Week before COVID shut the world down. 631 00:42:39,360 --> 00:42:43,279 Speaker 1: Like everyone else, the group went virtual. But as we 632 00:42:43,280 --> 00:42:47,920 Speaker 1: were watching the cataclysms of COVID, we were also, because 633 00:42:47,960 --> 00:42:54,520 Speaker 1: we are black women, watching the racist destruction of black people. So, 634 00:42:54,680 --> 00:42:58,280 Speaker 1: you know, a mod arbor in February, Brianna Taylor in March, 635 00:42:58,880 --> 00:43:03,720 Speaker 1: George Floyd in the midsummer. So we're getting reminders again 636 00:43:03,800 --> 00:43:06,520 Speaker 1: that even in the midst of a pandemic, The pandemic 637 00:43:06,560 --> 00:43:12,239 Speaker 1: of American racism is still steadily beating forward. And these 638 00:43:12,239 --> 00:43:14,759 Speaker 1: are things that we don't have to explain to each other, 639 00:43:15,160 --> 00:43:17,680 Speaker 1: you know, these are things that you know that we can, 640 00:43:17,760 --> 00:43:20,080 Speaker 1: that we can talk about, that we can listen, that 641 00:43:20,120 --> 00:43:23,239 Speaker 1: we can we can hear each other through, that we 642 00:43:23,320 --> 00:43:27,240 Speaker 1: can you know, think about and make space for because 643 00:43:27,239 --> 00:43:32,200 Speaker 1: it's also part of our story. But I also wanted people. 644 00:43:32,200 --> 00:43:35,040 Speaker 1: I also wanted black women to feel less alone, to 645 00:43:35,239 --> 00:43:38,360 Speaker 1: feel like when they were the only person at this 646 00:43:38,480 --> 00:43:42,440 Speaker 1: particular sewing expo or in this class or at this event, 647 00:43:43,000 --> 00:43:46,560 Speaker 1: that that is not the totality of our experience, and 648 00:43:46,600 --> 00:43:49,120 Speaker 1: that we can create something where we are the beginning 649 00:43:49,120 --> 00:43:52,400 Speaker 1: and the end of the circle. And it's too often 650 00:43:52,680 --> 00:43:56,480 Speaker 1: in a white supremacist society where blackness, if it is 651 00:43:56,520 --> 00:43:59,720 Speaker 1: talked about at all, it's kind of seen as something 652 00:43:59,719 --> 00:44:02,920 Speaker 1: to overcome or something to ignore, or something that's a 653 00:44:02,960 --> 00:44:06,839 Speaker 1: trauma based identity. It's one of the great blessings of 654 00:44:06,880 --> 00:44:10,480 Speaker 1: this experience is that we know the truth about us, 655 00:44:12,200 --> 00:44:15,160 Speaker 1: and we are able to share that truth and be 656 00:44:15,360 --> 00:44:21,040 Speaker 1: in that truth with each other without supervision, without oversight, 657 00:44:21,600 --> 00:44:28,480 Speaker 1: without feeling like we need to accommodate someone else's opinions 658 00:44:28,600 --> 00:44:34,680 Speaker 1: or expectations. In working through trauma, I was able to 659 00:44:34,840 --> 00:44:41,360 Speaker 1: create something that can provide solace and support for Black 660 00:44:41,360 --> 00:44:45,520 Speaker 1: women who might face similar traumas. Um I can create 661 00:44:45,600 --> 00:44:49,040 Speaker 1: an environment, or encourage the creation of environments where Black 662 00:44:49,040 --> 00:44:52,279 Speaker 1: women will be cared for and protected, where we are 663 00:44:52,400 --> 00:44:56,279 Speaker 1: not marginalized, where we are not tolerated, but where we 664 00:44:56,520 --> 00:45:06,240 Speaker 1: are the point. Thank you again to all my guests today, 665 00:45:06,760 --> 00:45:10,600 Speaker 1: Lisa wolf Fork a Black Women's Stitch, Trina Green Brown 666 00:45:10,920 --> 00:45:15,520 Speaker 1: of Parenting for Liberation, and Dr James Gordon of the 667 00:45:15,560 --> 00:45:19,320 Speaker 1: Center for Mind Body Medicine. You can find more about 668 00:45:19,360 --> 00:45:22,840 Speaker 1: all of them and their organizations in the description of 669 00:45:22,880 --> 00:45:30,160 Speaker 1: this podcast. Next Question with Katie Kurik is a production 670 00:45:30,160 --> 00:45:33,480 Speaker 1: of My Heart Media and Katie Kurrik Media. The executive 671 00:45:33,520 --> 00:45:38,200 Speaker 1: producers Army, Katie Curic, and Courtney Litz. The supervising producer 672 00:45:38,239 --> 00:45:43,279 Speaker 1: is Lauren Hansen. Associate producers Derek Clements, Adriana Fassio, and 673 00:45:43,400 --> 00:45:47,719 Speaker 1: Emily Pinto. The show is edited and mixed by Derrick Clements. 674 00:45:48,080 --> 00:45:51,040 Speaker 1: For more information about today's episode, or to sign up 675 00:45:51,040 --> 00:45:53,760 Speaker 1: for my morning newsletter wake Up Call, go to Katie 676 00:45:53,800 --> 00:45:56,480 Speaker 1: currek dot com. You can also find me at Katie 677 00:45:56,480 --> 00:46:00,200 Speaker 1: curic on Instagram and all my social media channels. For 678 00:46:00,280 --> 00:46:03,399 Speaker 1: more podcasts from I Heart Radio, visit the I heart 679 00:46:03,480 --> 00:46:07,000 Speaker 1: Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your 680 00:46:07,040 --> 00:46:07,840 Speaker 1: favorite shows.