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Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome to Rewind with Karen and Georgia.

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Speaker 2: This is a show where we discuss our old episodes

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Speaker 2: with case updates and new insights. Now one hundred times over.

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Speaker 1: This is Rewind four, episode one hundred of the podcast.

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Speaker 3: So you don't have to scroll all the way down.

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Speaker 1: No, never again, never again. Now, you can just listen

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Speaker 1: to this start here today we're rewinding, as I just said,

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Speaker 1: to episode one hundred, and we named this episode what

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Speaker 1: the one hundredth episode? Incredible work.

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Speaker 2: This episode originally came out on December twenty first, twenty seventeen.

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Speaker 3: Oh my god, back.

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Speaker 1: When all right, let's listen to the intro of episode

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Speaker 1: one hundred.

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Speaker 4: Don't jip kip murder, don't jell kip kip bread murder.

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Speaker 1: Don't yell jem je jot yell j jolly. Welcome to

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Speaker 1: my favorite murderly loud. Stephen, Hey, it's the one hundred

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Speaker 1: episode of my favorite murder podcast.

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Speaker 2: Remember the podcast you've listened to ninety nine point uh

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Speaker 2: eight times.

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Speaker 1: Holy crap. I'm pouring myself and Stephen a glass of

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Speaker 1: this beautiful rose champagne that today I was vincent and

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Speaker 1: I were walking by this wine store. I was like, oh,

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Speaker 1: let me go in and get a bottle for the

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Speaker 1: hundredth episode. And I'm looking through this thing and this

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Speaker 1: cute girl with blue hairs like I love the podcast.

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Speaker 1: I'm like, oh my god, thank you. And then the

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Speaker 1: chick behind the counter he owns the place, is like

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Speaker 1: I love it too, and they both started like talking

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Speaker 1: to me about it, and it was really sweet, and

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Speaker 1: so I just wanted to say thank you to Enovino,

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Speaker 1: to Susanna at Eno Vino and Jen's Spain photography.

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Speaker 2: Well exciting. I have a cup of tea. I have

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Speaker 2: a cup of tea, and we have a cake from Carvel, right.

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Speaker 2: Stephen went and picked it up at the one Los

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Speaker 2: Angeles location that's been there for a long time.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, they've been there for a while and they were

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Speaker 4: very sweet and yeah they've been after ice cake.

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Speaker 1: Give it to us. Yeah, amazing, so fucking cool.

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Speaker 2: I mean, I don't even remember having the conversation about

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Speaker 2: talking about how we were going to have this cake

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Speaker 2: on this day.

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Speaker 1: I don't remember talking about ninety nine episodes worth of

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Speaker 1: things so true. Here we are, and yet we're just

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Speaker 1: going to keep on talking.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, bloody blah, let's first, we have presence from Steven. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: let's just describe these, because we walked upstairs into the

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Speaker 2: beautiful podcast loft and on the podcast coffee table. They're

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Speaker 2: two what I referred to as hat boxes.

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Speaker 1: Gorgeous red like gilded hat boxes. Spoilers. Okay, oh okay,

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Speaker 1: other hats another ap.

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Speaker 3: Oh my god, this is beautiful. It is oh.

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Speaker 1: Uh oh what are these? Are these dead mics? They're like,

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Speaker 1: are these like jannat Jackson mics?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, Steven, God, Stephen got us head mikes.

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Speaker 1: This this is what having one hundred podcasts is.

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Speaker 2: Like, Holy shit, Stephen, we're gonna record. We're gonna record

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Speaker 2: like gamers do when they when they record themselves for YouTube.

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Speaker 1: It's totally true.

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Speaker 4: When you can do all your dance moves and everything.

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Speaker 1: Oh, Steve, you can like you can move your body

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Speaker 1: the way you've always wanted to Karen, when we're recording,

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Speaker 1: I have wanted one of these my whole life.

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Speaker 3: Shut up.

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Speaker 1: I've just never had a reason for it. Steven, Stephen,

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Speaker 1: thank you. We didn't get you. We're going to know.

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Speaker 1: I'm so glad you like that.

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Speaker 4: I mean, they're just like they're just so fun.

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Speaker 1: They're beautiful.

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Speaker 4: Just watching Danny Jackson's just like, yeah, do it.

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Speaker 1: Oh, we're going to be on the next level. Can

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Speaker 1: we plug them in now?

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Speaker 4: Uh, that might take a while.

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Speaker 1: Can we just put them on?

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Speaker 2: Though?

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Speaker 4: You can wear them.

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Speaker 1: They kind of look like like retain the retainers and

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Speaker 1: people headgear.

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Speaker 3: They look like headgear if you.

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Speaker 1: Need a visual, And it's totally like what someone would

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Speaker 1: wear like the top gun or something like that. And

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Speaker 1: they have like they've got like foam. It's just really intense.

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Speaker 2: I feel like I get very It's not that often

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Speaker 2: that someone gives me the perfect gift because I do.

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Speaker 2: I don't talk about what I like that much. I

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Speaker 2: only talk about and focus on what I hate. And

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Speaker 2: this is just such a fucking hallarous This is such

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Speaker 2: a perfect gift. It's such a lovely Uh, it's so

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Speaker 2: perfect for such a lovely gesture.

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Speaker 1: For us, for this occasion. Everything about it. Thank everyone,

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Speaker 1: happier in my life. Oh yes, well, it's just yes,

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Speaker 1: you're blessing a special day.

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Speaker 2: Thank you.

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Speaker 1: You know what it is. He's forced to listen to us.

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Speaker 1: Uh huh, so he has to, he has to pay

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Speaker 1: attention to what we say. He doesn't want the Mic

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Speaker 1: to keep bumping against my teeth anymore like it always does.

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Speaker 1: The foam on teeth is world gross to begin with.

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Speaker 2: How is your the background noise of just gift wrap

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Speaker 2: paper constantly being touched.

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Speaker 4: I mean that's the new am thing.

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Speaker 1: So oh yeah, Karen, I think that you're just going

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Speaker 1: to start wearing this always. I think you're exactly sleep

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Speaker 1: and when you're in the car and you're on the phone.

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Speaker 2: I have to say, I have a lot of the

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Speaker 2: same feelings that I had when I was I think

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Speaker 2: I've told you the story when I was like four

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Speaker 2: or five and my aunt Jean gave.

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Speaker 1: My sister a pair of red Cobbodos.

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Speaker 2: For her birthday and the second I saw her open

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Speaker 2: the box, I screamed, grabbed them, put them on, and

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Speaker 2: would not take them off, and I wore them for

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Speaker 2: like three years.

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Speaker 1: And this I have very much the same feeling. Can

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Speaker 1: I say? So? You and I had blah blah blah,

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Speaker 1: said like, we'll get each other presents for one hundredth episode.

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Speaker 1: So that looks great on you, does it? My god?

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Speaker 1: You look like you look like you work at a

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Speaker 1: call center. Thank you. You look like like and rule

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Speaker 1: in the seventies, Ted Bundy, you look like you work

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Speaker 1: next to Ted Bundy.

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Speaker 2: I'm trying to help people, but I'm also making friends

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Speaker 2: with one of the most legendary serial killers of all time.

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Speaker 1: Yes. Yeah, So I was like, well, what do I

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Speaker 1: get Karen? And I've been stressing about it for like

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Speaker 1: a week. Spoiler alert, I got you nothing, which is

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Speaker 1: totally my style. I stress and stress, don't do anything

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Speaker 1: about it. You froze. So I had it. But I

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Speaker 1: had good ideas and actually, initially those red cowboy boots

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Speaker 1: you talked about, I was going to get the cake

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Speaker 1: made that were red cowboy boots. Oh my god.

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Speaker 5: No.

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Speaker 1: I didn't do it though, but that doesn't matter. But

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Speaker 1: that's going to make I had a couple, so I

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Speaker 1: want points for them. Even though I got fifty points

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Speaker 1: for red cowboy boot cake. I have a great imagination

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Speaker 1: and crippling anxiety that doesn't let me do anything about it.

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Speaker 1: It's that followed through. But I am an honest believer,

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Speaker 1: and it's the thought the count too. I really am.

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Speaker 1: I am too. Okay, great, so that was gonna be one.

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Speaker 1: Then I was thinking I'd either go get a tattoo

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Speaker 1: or have a tattoo artist come here for us and

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Speaker 1: give us SSDGM tattoos while we were recording. But I

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Speaker 1: couldn't remember if you wanted one or not. Too Okay,

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Speaker 1: Well then I would have gotten one. I mean, I

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Speaker 1: love the idea of it. Yeah, but it's just not me.

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Speaker 2: I have a tattoo that I shouldn't have gotten in

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Speaker 2: the first place, and in getting it, realized I'm not

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Speaker 2: a tattoo person.

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Speaker 1: I get that. So that was another idea. And then oh,

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Speaker 1: and then I was just gonna wrap. I was gonna

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Speaker 1: gift wrap really well, beautiful, like Christmasy gift wrapping, gorgeous,

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Speaker 1: Just a pan of cheesy potatoes like My Lady from

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Speaker 1: Unhealthy Obsessions or whatever that TLC show is. Oh yeah,

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Speaker 1: because you love cheesy potatoes. He's on backstage a lot.

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Speaker 1: So I was gonna do some version of potato and

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Speaker 1: cheese are pasta. And maybe I make a good mac

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Speaker 1: and cheese. Maybe that green things make us cry someday

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Speaker 1: cheese potatoes save our life.

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Speaker 2: Well, here's thank you for all those thoughts and for

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Speaker 2: stressing about it. That's even more of a gift of

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Speaker 2: true anxiety over it means a lot. I came up

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Speaker 2: with the idea and when you said, oh, really like

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Speaker 2: and then I was like yes, and then immediately forgot

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Speaker 2: and haven't thought about it since I walked in the door.

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Speaker 2: And you were like, I didn't get you anything, and

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Speaker 2: I was like, okay, like.

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Speaker 1: Oh why would you. I don't ever get me anything,

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Speaker 1: and I'm like plass both said but I immediately I

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Speaker 1: was like, oh thank god she forgot too, or she

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Speaker 1: like didn't do it either.

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Speaker 2: It's just so classical me. That would be like my

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Speaker 2: bossy idea. And then I'm just like, I don't know

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Speaker 2: what you're talking about anyway.

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Speaker 1: Well, because then I didn't follow through, right it does?

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Speaker 1: You have no memory of it, and I have no

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Speaker 1: follow through. And together that's one hundred episodes. Man, dude,

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Speaker 1: we are we It was.

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Speaker 2: A match made in heaven for real. It really was,

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Speaker 2: because it's like it's a friend of mine. The other

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Speaker 2: day I forgot we had made dinner plans and then

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Speaker 2: she texted me. I was like, now, like I had

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Speaker 2: to move one night on her. Then she texted and

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Speaker 2: she was like, now I have to move a night

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Speaker 2: and I was like yay, Like it's never bad news

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Speaker 2: to me. Yeah, when you flake, cancel, I love it,

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Speaker 2: or I just never hear from you again. It's always

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Speaker 2: a relief to me.

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Speaker 1: If you see me out at night. I really like you,

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Speaker 1: you know what I mean? Yet like I or you

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Speaker 1: you already think I'm a flake and I can't. I've

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Speaker 1: used up all my flakingness on you. Yes you're scared. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: There are a couple of friends that are like, oh,

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Speaker 1: you're actually here. But then they're always like, but you

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Speaker 1: always make me come to your side of town. When

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Speaker 1: I'm like, where should we go, I'm like, down the street,

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Speaker 1: it's so great over here.

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Speaker 5: You will.

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Speaker 1: But here's the thing, and this is how it is.

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Speaker 1: Sometimes you got a cop. If you live in an

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Speaker 1: area where it's just not that cool, yeah, like you

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Speaker 1: can go out. This is the thing. You have to

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Speaker 1: like master plan.

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Speaker 2: You have to think of everybody in the plan because

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Speaker 2: there are people who are like, oh, I'm married and

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Speaker 2: have a kid, so if we go to dinner, I

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Speaker 2: don't give a shit where we go because it's all

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Speaker 2: the same to me. But if you're like a single

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Speaker 2: lady trying to maximize your time because you finally left

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Speaker 2: the house after two weeks, you don't want to go

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Speaker 2: to fucking the Grandma restaurant.

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Speaker 1: You don't want to go to like when your friend's

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Speaker 1: like when you're single and your friend's like, just come

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Speaker 1: over and we'll make I'll make dinner. Like, No, I

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Speaker 1: want the possibility of seeing a hawkeye at a bar.

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Speaker 1: Don't waste my time in front of your TV. No

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Speaker 1: percent get that.

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Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, it's like if I if I'm going to

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Speaker 2: make the monstrous efforts of putting clothes on this body

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Speaker 2: and rolling on outside, we've got to actually do something

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Speaker 2: that's like worth the while.

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Speaker 1: There's no way you're fucking whatever salad you throw together

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Speaker 1: is gonna be good as like a cheese plate from

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Speaker 1: the fucking nice restaurant. Yes, and let's spend some money.

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Speaker 1: Come on, come on, let's do it. Don't care time?

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Speaker 2: And did you hear about the asteroid that came within

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Speaker 2: three miles of the earth? No, I love that though,

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Speaker 2: I mean, guys are on a clock. Let's maximize this

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Speaker 2: fun please this Christmas season.

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Speaker 1: I went to my Hanuka party last weekend over the weekend,

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Speaker 1: which was super fun, and all my young sweet cousins

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Speaker 1: listen to the podcast how Young, Well they're like in

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Speaker 1: there they're like just had a college so they're all

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Speaker 1: COOLT Savannah, Jillian High ladies. Hi, they're just like sweet

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Speaker 1: little angels and then and I love them.

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Speaker 2: It's so very cool. Yeah, I have family too who

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Speaker 2: are like it's people that you don't expect. I was

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Speaker 2: the young like twenty year olds that I know or

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Speaker 2: that like Lauren and Connor and Johnny know are my family.

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Speaker 1: You know.

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Speaker 2: I'm always like, they don't care about anything from my eras,

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Speaker 2: like why would they there?

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Speaker 1: We're boring old people. The life, the way we live.

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Speaker 2: Is so different that it's like we might as well

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Speaker 2: be from different sides of the planet. So good God,

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Speaker 2: bless go do your thing. So when they come and

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Speaker 2: they're like, oh my god, all my friends like you,

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Speaker 2: it's like what It honestly feels like a ghost has

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Speaker 2: walked through the wall and been like, oh my god,

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Speaker 2: we like you.

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Speaker 1: A validating you. Suddenly it's like, oh my god, I'm not.

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Speaker 2: It's validating you from people that you're like, I have

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Speaker 2: to dismiss your group because it's sad when old people

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Speaker 2: want young people to think they're cool.

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Speaker 1: But podcasts, there's something about them. It's all old people.

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Speaker 1: It's mind control. It's mind control. Mm hmm. How's my

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Speaker 1: headset look? It looks still glorious. You look like Judith

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Speaker 1: from HR. And then every time you say something and

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Speaker 1: that you have to touch your the ear piece lightly.

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Speaker 2: That's right, because I'm also I have to be honest.

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Speaker 2: I'm a little bit playing news Copter four pilot like

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Speaker 2: I'm a.

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Speaker 1: Traffic reporter right now, Karen and Karen Kay and the

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Speaker 1: sky guys. I'm looking right down at the I five

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Speaker 1: and everything's on fire. Oh on my way here. That's

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Speaker 1: the only thing you can say. That's like the only

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Speaker 1: time that ring Karen kaout is where there's a fire

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Speaker 1: in the south planted.

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Speaker 2: It's always on fire. Hey, it's twenty eighteen and we're

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Speaker 2: on fire. Sorry, I did a terrible radio voice. But

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Speaker 2: on the exit to come here, there was a there

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Speaker 2: was a slow down. Of course, I went five miles

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Speaker 2: an hour the whole time. This it's so fascinating to

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Speaker 2: talk about La traffic.

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Speaker 3: Everyone loves it.

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Speaker 2: But when I took the exit there was like a

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Speaker 2: huge tow truck and then when we all had to

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Speaker 2: drive by it real slow.

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Speaker 1: It was a Maserati that had rear ended like a

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Speaker 1: Kia and it was I laughed.

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Speaker 2: So hard because Masarati is, why do you drive that car? No,

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Speaker 2: you're just flossing. You're just trying to make people think

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Speaker 2: you're important.

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Speaker 1: Raty oh god. And then one listener who drives a

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Speaker 1: Maserati right now is like, I fucking knew it. My

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Speaker 1: brother told me it was cool.

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Speaker 2: I fucking I fucking knew it, you know. And I'm

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Speaker 2: taking this fork. We brought forks up here. I'm I'm

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Speaker 2: digging into this car bell cake.

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Speaker 1: Eating food on a podcast into a microphone and it's

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Speaker 1: now a MS as mr right, it's as ms a sap.

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Speaker 1: Oh my god, it's not so good. Fuck. Okay, let's

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Speaker 1: fucking cooking channel unique sweet stash for a minute, do it?

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Speaker 1: Can I say, yeah, seven, are you gonna eat any

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Speaker 1: of this? Even there's a pork budge of the whale

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Speaker 1: cake where I said grab the cake in four and

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Speaker 1: three forks, and you got so excited that I didn't

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Speaker 1: say plates yeah, because there's no fucking chance we're cutting

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Speaker 1: this and put it in plate. It's kind of monsters

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Speaker 1: eating we are Yep, this isn't fucking tea time with

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Speaker 1: Karen and Georgia or whatever. It's an ice cream cake,

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Speaker 1: but there's like a layer of marshmallow fluff in it.

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Speaker 1: It's crunchy from the like cookie pieces.

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Speaker 2: No, that's what it's like famous for, right right, And

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Speaker 2: it's got the like fudgy frosting and just a little

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Speaker 2: bit of cake.

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Speaker 1: It's not a ton of cake.

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Speaker 2: It's there's barely in a cake that there's also a

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Speaker 2: strip of caramel. Oh my, underneath this fudge frosting. It's

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Speaker 2: like my mouth is watering and I'm eating it at

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Speaker 2: the same time.

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Speaker 1: That's how good it is. What's really fun about eating

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Speaker 1: a thing? I should talk mm hm, I was talking

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Speaker 1: the microphone. It's really fun about eating a thing like this,

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Speaker 1: Like when you become an adult, is you gonna eat

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Speaker 1: it and make as big a mess as you want?

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Speaker 2: Yeah?

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Speaker 1: M Also, here's what's really funny.

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Speaker 2: I think there's a lot of people on the East

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Speaker 2: Coast that probably think this is hilarious because we're describing

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Speaker 2: a thing that'd.

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Speaker 1: Be like, oh my god.

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Speaker 2: It's like the peanut butter is right next to the

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Speaker 2: jelly where they're like, yeah, everyone's had this.

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Speaker 1: You don't need to describe it. This is our childhood.

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Speaker 3: Nobody cares.

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Speaker 1: Every single person had this for their birthday. Bar It's

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Speaker 1: like you, we didn't know. I've never had that in

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Speaker 1: my life. M neither.

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Speaker 3: It's the best.

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Speaker 1: Fuck. Let's get sugar high and party.

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Speaker 2: Mm hmmm.

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Speaker 1: You know it's so funny if we can get into

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Speaker 1: it really quickly. Someone tweeted today at us yes in

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Speaker 1: said okay, hold on, Stephen, wait hold on.

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Speaker 2: They said, please eat a whole cake on the show,

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Speaker 2: and I said, sounds great.

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Speaker 1: When we did it, I'd love to. They said, you

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Speaker 1: know what, that's a great idea. That's my gift to

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Speaker 1: you is dessert for dinner. Oh my god, that's so good.

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Speaker 1: I want to cry. Steven, don't you love it? Stephen?

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00:15:57,160 --> 00:16:01,040
Speaker 1: Keeping in it so good? Keeping it meaning it while

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Speaker 1: I find this tweet and we're back.

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Speaker 3: Wow, one hundred episodes. I'm glad we celebrated.

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Speaker 2: I mean, the range of growth, that's just I want

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Speaker 2: to focus on that for a second. Is the full

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Speaker 2: range of growth that we've shown in this series one

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Speaker 2: hundred alone.

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Speaker 3: How many episodes do we have now? Like five hundred

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Speaker 3: over five hundred, right, Molly? How many we just recorded?

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Speaker 3: Five thirty four, five thirty four and one hundred is

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Speaker 3: nothing finding celebrating.

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Speaker 1: This sets back before we understood anything that was going on.

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Speaker 1: So in the episode, Steven gave us headphones in gift

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Speaker 1: boxes like this, Oh there are oh I know, look

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Speaker 1: that's day of This is a listener if you're only listening.

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Speaker 2: Uh, Molly, just put up a picture of the Day

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Speaker 2: of the hundredth episode and the gifts we got.

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Speaker 1: There's forks everywhere, in a carvel, budgie, the whale cake.

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Speaker 1: I also want to point out that there's the old

360
00:16:56,680 --> 00:17:01,840
Speaker 1: forks everywhere. The joke about podcasting pajamas, I'm literally wearing

361
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Speaker 1: pajama pants.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, photo, So that was.

363
00:17:04,320 --> 00:17:06,920
Speaker 2: Back when we didn't have to care about our appearance

364
00:17:06,960 --> 00:17:08,800
Speaker 2: because we were merely podcasters.

365
00:17:09,640 --> 00:17:11,320
Speaker 3: Let's open these. Look at the little vial. What do

366
00:17:11,400 --> 00:17:11,879
Speaker 3: you think is in that?

367
00:17:12,040 --> 00:17:13,359
Speaker 1: Look at my tiny iPhone?

368
00:17:13,640 --> 00:17:14,080
Speaker 3: Look at that.

369
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Speaker 1: I'm on Twitter as we record.

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Speaker 3: There's my wine.

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Speaker 2: Wow.

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Speaker 3: Okay, okay, I'm excited. No, yeah, do these really work?

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00:17:30,160 --> 00:17:31,840
Speaker 3: Not currently, but we can make them work.

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00:17:32,720 --> 00:17:34,399
Speaker 1: But we can put them on as if laies are

375
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Speaker 1: going to look great? Yes, because they're kind of like headpants.

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Speaker 3: Yeah exactly.

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00:17:39,680 --> 00:17:41,480
Speaker 1: Hello, do you know I wish I could wear my

378
00:17:41,560 --> 00:17:44,720
Speaker 1: sunglasses on my head at all times as like an accessory.

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00:17:44,880 --> 00:17:45,480
Speaker 1: It's like a headpant.

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00:17:45,520 --> 00:17:46,920
Speaker 3: I just think it looks good, but you want to

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00:17:46,960 --> 00:17:48,840
Speaker 3: do that at night? What about this? This is great too?

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00:17:49,720 --> 00:17:51,639
Speaker 1: Hello True crime podcasting? May I help you?

383
00:17:51,760 --> 00:17:56,040
Speaker 3: Hello? The Paging doctor Isaiyas.

384
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Speaker 1: Page being doctor podcast.

385
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Speaker 3: These are great. Thanks.

386
00:17:59,440 --> 00:18:02,080
Speaker 1: Here we can dance and we're wearing them the whole time.

387
00:18:02,240 --> 00:18:04,480
Speaker 5: So in that red box that showed up in that

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Speaker 5: photo we just threw to, Stephen had the original Janet

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00:18:07,680 --> 00:18:11,359
Speaker 5: Jackson style headsets, and that's what this is as well,

390
00:18:11,400 --> 00:18:11,879
Speaker 5: a nod to that.

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Speaker 1: Thank you more headsets. You know I still have that

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Speaker 1: gift box. I store belts in it.

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Speaker 2: Nice. Well, what I love is this these we Stephen

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00:18:22,000 --> 00:18:26,800
Speaker 2: gave us these headsets for our hundreds original we immediately

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00:18:26,920 --> 00:18:30,120
Speaker 2: lost them some again after we never saw them again,

396
00:18:30,920 --> 00:18:34,159
Speaker 2: and then for this one hundredth rewind we get to

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Speaker 2: go back. Here they are and now I finally get

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Speaker 2: to live my headphone Janet Jackson life.

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00:18:39,600 --> 00:18:43,440
Speaker 3: You look great. Also double triple, you have triple microphones

400
00:18:43,520 --> 00:18:43,760
Speaker 3: right now?

401
00:18:43,880 --> 00:18:44,200
Speaker 1: Triple?

402
00:18:45,440 --> 00:18:46,000
Speaker 2: That's right.

403
00:18:46,480 --> 00:18:48,800
Speaker 1: I have so many microphones and so much scotch tape

404
00:18:48,840 --> 00:18:54,720
Speaker 1: on me. You got two microphone up, you're a microphone influencer. Okay,

405
00:18:54,720 --> 00:18:55,480
Speaker 1: I'm taking this off.

406
00:18:55,520 --> 00:18:57,800
Speaker 3: Okay, no, I look it off.

407
00:18:57,840 --> 00:19:00,480
Speaker 2: I mean thank you so much. I love I love

408
00:19:00,520 --> 00:19:02,639
Speaker 2: that we finally have these in our hands. We actually

409
00:19:02,680 --> 00:19:04,800
Speaker 2: get to enjoy these. If there's a day where we

410
00:19:04,880 --> 00:19:08,280
Speaker 2: can actually podcast with them on and use them, that's

411
00:19:08,320 --> 00:19:09,159
Speaker 2: where I want to get to.

412
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Speaker 3: This way, we can walk and talk podcast from all

413
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Speaker 3: over the office.

414
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Speaker 1: All over the office, and we can take drive through orders.

415
00:19:14,920 --> 00:19:15,560
Speaker 3: Oh that's true.

416
00:19:15,560 --> 00:19:17,400
Speaker 1: It's going to be so good. Okay, now we're back

417
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Speaker 1: in the show we're doing.

418
00:19:18,200 --> 00:19:21,800
Speaker 3: I have information for you. I have an update on Carvel.

419
00:19:22,400 --> 00:19:28,720
Speaker 1: So the Santa Monica Boulevard in Westwood location has closed permanently. Yeah.

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00:19:28,960 --> 00:19:32,120
Speaker 1: As of twenty twenty six, are only three remaining Carvel

421
00:19:32,400 --> 00:19:34,399
Speaker 1: locations operating in California.

422
00:19:34,600 --> 00:19:35,760
Speaker 3: Wow, do you want to guess we're there?

423
00:19:36,680 --> 00:19:44,960
Speaker 1: Duarte? No, Hanford, merced Random, that's up by Modesta Madeira.

424
00:19:45,520 --> 00:19:48,200
Speaker 1: I think there's water slides there. Yeah, that's Mantiqa.

425
00:19:48,280 --> 00:19:50,680
Speaker 3: I'm sorry, Lamore, I've never heard of that place.

426
00:19:50,720 --> 00:19:52,520
Speaker 1: Oh, that's across the freeway from Hanford.

427
00:19:52,680 --> 00:19:53,400
Speaker 3: What's Hanford?

428
00:19:53,520 --> 00:19:55,920
Speaker 1: Pantford is what the city? I just guessed because it's

429
00:19:55,960 --> 00:19:59,399
Speaker 1: on the way up the five. This is local jokes.

430
00:19:59,400 --> 00:20:00,880
Speaker 1: Get local the definition.

431
00:20:00,960 --> 00:20:04,520
Speaker 3: Why are they all in northern California or central Central?

432
00:20:04,600 --> 00:20:04,760
Speaker 1: Yeah?

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00:20:04,840 --> 00:20:06,520
Speaker 2: But I mean how did they stay in business when

434
00:20:06,560 --> 00:20:09,160
Speaker 2: the LA one couldn't? I thought the demand was from

435
00:20:09,200 --> 00:20:11,280
Speaker 2: the hipsters who were from the East Coast that lived

436
00:20:11,280 --> 00:20:11,639
Speaker 2: in LA.

437
00:20:11,840 --> 00:20:14,720
Speaker 1: We have all that artisan ice cream and all that.

438
00:20:15,000 --> 00:20:17,919
Speaker 1: You know, it has to be earl gray and tobacco flavor. Now,

439
00:20:18,160 --> 00:20:19,080
Speaker 1: I don't like that.

440
00:20:19,320 --> 00:20:20,520
Speaker 3: You don't like the weird flavors.

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00:20:20,640 --> 00:20:23,160
Speaker 2: I want to buy it. I'm so up for ice cream.

442
00:20:23,320 --> 00:20:25,360
Speaker 2: I want don't put gorgonzola.

443
00:20:25,480 --> 00:20:27,200
Speaker 1: And I was just going to say, I want blue

444
00:20:27,280 --> 00:20:30,199
Speaker 1: cheese and cherries. No, that was the best ice cream ever.

445
00:20:30,280 --> 00:20:32,960
Speaker 2: Fucking salad. If that's what you want so bad, I'm sorry.

446
00:20:33,160 --> 00:20:34,560
Speaker 2: That's not what we're trying to do on the one

447
00:20:34,640 --> 00:20:35,359
Speaker 2: hundredth episodes.

448
00:20:35,440 --> 00:20:38,600
Speaker 3: Okay, So we both covered the same story on this episode.

449
00:20:38,800 --> 00:20:41,159
Speaker 2: This was a cool idea where we broke format and

450
00:20:41,280 --> 00:20:43,920
Speaker 2: we're like, now for the hundredth we're going to celebrate

451
00:20:43,960 --> 00:20:45,320
Speaker 2: by doing the same story together.

452
00:20:45,440 --> 00:20:47,560
Speaker 3: We should do that again. Sure that's homework.

453
00:20:48,320 --> 00:20:51,760
Speaker 2: I mean we break up a story Havesi's yeah, one

454
00:20:51,840 --> 00:20:53,040
Speaker 2: does one one does the other.

455
00:20:53,160 --> 00:20:54,520
Speaker 3: Okay, so let's get into it.

456
00:20:54,720 --> 00:20:55,560
Speaker 1: Someone write this down.

457
00:20:56,720 --> 00:20:59,480
Speaker 3: We are going to get into our one hundredth story,

458
00:20:59,640 --> 00:21:00,600
Speaker 3: the big Yeah.

459
00:21:00,720 --> 00:21:05,159
Speaker 1: This is the story about the mysterious suspicious death of

460
00:21:05,320 --> 00:21:16,320
Speaker 1: Kathleen Peterson. All right, A guy named his Twitter handle

461
00:21:16,520 --> 00:21:22,160
Speaker 1: is Manny Patinkin. Oh my God, Manny Patinkin Manny twenty

462
00:21:22,240 --> 00:21:26,359
Speaker 1: one eighty nine. Text Us added Stan tour set. So

463
00:21:27,119 --> 00:21:29,359
Speaker 1: you guys talked about the staircase death a lot in

464
00:21:29,400 --> 00:21:32,000
Speaker 1: the start of your podcast days, but you guys never

465
00:21:32,040 --> 00:21:34,240
Speaker 1: fully got into it, and I still have no idea

466
00:21:34,400 --> 00:21:37,800
Speaker 1: what it is. And owl question mark. Someone sent us

467
00:21:37,880 --> 00:21:41,560
Speaker 1: that today. Really, Yes, that's hilarious.

468
00:21:41,640 --> 00:21:42,240
Speaker 4: How weird is that?

469
00:21:43,200 --> 00:21:46,440
Speaker 2: Because on our first episode and Stephen went back and

470
00:21:46,600 --> 00:21:48,760
Speaker 2: listened to it, wrote up some nice notes for us.

471
00:21:48,920 --> 00:21:52,159
Speaker 1: It's called do diligence, that's right, and he did it.

472
00:21:52,359 --> 00:21:54,800
Speaker 1: He did his diligence, dude. He did his duty.

473
00:21:55,000 --> 00:21:57,280
Speaker 2: So we didn't have to do no duty exactly. But

474
00:21:58,080 --> 00:22:02,160
Speaker 2: we talk about the staircase. We both believed I think

475
00:22:02,240 --> 00:22:04,440
Speaker 2: for a while we believed we had covered it. But

476
00:22:04,560 --> 00:22:09,639
Speaker 2: it was just conversation, a long conversation, and then the

477
00:22:09,720 --> 00:22:11,080
Speaker 2: fun reveal that you told me.

478
00:22:11,880 --> 00:22:12,040
Speaker 1: Was it.

479
00:22:12,160 --> 00:22:15,560
Speaker 2: Then when we decided, okay, for the hundredth episode, we're

480
00:22:15,560 --> 00:22:16,920
Speaker 2: going to cover the staircase together.

481
00:22:17,000 --> 00:22:19,800
Speaker 1: Officially, I just realized I'm like trying to surprise everyone

482
00:22:19,840 --> 00:22:21,439
Speaker 1: by telling them that we're doing the staircase. But then

483
00:22:21,480 --> 00:22:23,240
Speaker 1: I just realized they saw in the description of the

484
00:22:23,280 --> 00:22:25,960
Speaker 1: podcast episode when they press play probably yeah, it's not

485
00:22:26,080 --> 00:22:28,520
Speaker 1: a surprise. It's not. And you know, at some point

486
00:22:28,560 --> 00:22:30,720
Speaker 1: you got to reveal the surprise. What if, Steven, you

487
00:22:30,800 --> 00:22:36,000
Speaker 1: put in the description surprise one hundredth episode case Okay,

488
00:22:36,040 --> 00:22:39,960
Speaker 1: Oh my god, they're gonna fucking shit, guys. Surprise, but

489
00:22:40,080 --> 00:22:44,000
Speaker 1: there is a surprise, because then what what was your reveal? Okay,

490
00:22:44,080 --> 00:22:47,800
Speaker 1: so yesterday not yesterday last week. This is how fucking

491
00:22:47,920 --> 00:22:50,560
Speaker 1: this is how professional this podcast is. As Karen Steven

492
00:22:50,600 --> 00:22:52,359
Speaker 1: are walking out of my door after we recorded, and

493
00:22:52,440 --> 00:22:54,520
Speaker 1: we're trying to guess, like whatever, which we were gonna

494
00:22:54,560 --> 00:22:57,200
Speaker 1: we want to cover a story together, blah blah blah.

495
00:22:57,600 --> 00:22:59,320
Speaker 1: And as we're walking out the door or you walking

496
00:22:59,359 --> 00:23:02,280
Speaker 1: out the door, I'm like one of us is like, staircase, great, goodbye.

497
00:23:02,600 --> 00:23:05,320
Speaker 1: I think it was you. Okay, and so I credit

498
00:23:05,480 --> 00:23:07,000
Speaker 1: thank you, but I don't want to I don't need it.

499
00:23:07,280 --> 00:23:09,760
Speaker 1: I turn on the Staircase to watch it and realize

500
00:23:09,920 --> 00:23:12,000
Speaker 1: I have just been bullshing it this past couple of

501
00:23:12,040 --> 00:23:13,720
Speaker 1: years when people are like, have you seen the Staircase,

502
00:23:13,720 --> 00:23:15,600
Speaker 1: And I'm like, yeah, because I don't want to be

503
00:23:15,720 --> 00:23:20,960
Speaker 1: like no, of course, you know, and I kind of

504
00:23:21,040 --> 00:23:23,320
Speaker 1: convinced myself that I had seen it. But as we're

505
00:23:23,320 --> 00:23:25,240
Speaker 1: watching episode one, I was like, oh my god, I've

506
00:23:25,320 --> 00:23:28,680
Speaker 1: never fucking seen this. I've watched the forensic files about it,

507
00:23:28,760 --> 00:23:30,520
Speaker 1: and I've read a ton about it, but I've never

508
00:23:30,600 --> 00:23:33,080
Speaker 1: fucking watched the actual documentary. It's so funny.

509
00:23:33,560 --> 00:23:38,919
Speaker 2: Basically, the entire relationship and our story, our origin story,

510
00:23:39,520 --> 00:23:42,440
Speaker 2: is predicated on the fact that we both talked endlessly

511
00:23:42,480 --> 00:23:45,280
Speaker 2: about the Staircase at that at Matt's.

512
00:23:44,960 --> 00:23:48,520
Speaker 1: Halloween party, and all of that's a lie. That's like

513
00:23:48,640 --> 00:23:51,359
Speaker 1: a miss that I remembered about it. No, of course,

514
00:23:51,800 --> 00:23:53,960
Speaker 1: but I didn't know. I didn't know, you know what.

515
00:23:54,160 --> 00:23:57,560
Speaker 1: After watching most of it, I didn't know what I

516
00:23:57,640 --> 00:24:01,800
Speaker 1: was talking about, which just goes to show what a

517
00:24:01,880 --> 00:24:04,600
Speaker 1: fucking glass of whiskey will do.

518
00:24:06,440 --> 00:24:09,760
Speaker 2: But you did in that way where this is this

519
00:24:09,960 --> 00:24:12,480
Speaker 2: is one of the stories that's been around for so long,

520
00:24:13,000 --> 00:24:17,680
Speaker 2: and we've talked about that where the first couple true crime,

521
00:24:18,119 --> 00:24:20,840
Speaker 2: like you know, for to eight hours types of shows

522
00:24:20,880 --> 00:24:24,800
Speaker 2: that I saw about it presented it in a very clean,

523
00:24:25,119 --> 00:24:26,280
Speaker 2: clear cut way. Yeah.

524
00:24:26,359 --> 00:24:28,280
Speaker 1: I went back and watched the forensic files, which we'll

525
00:24:28,280 --> 00:24:30,960
Speaker 1: talk about once we get through it. But it's definitely

526
00:24:31,359 --> 00:24:34,359
Speaker 1: this is the story. And then shit just keeps throughout

527
00:24:34,359 --> 00:24:37,879
Speaker 1: the years getting added onto it. Yes, and it's really crazy.

528
00:24:37,960 --> 00:24:40,000
Speaker 1: And I do have to say watching the documentary gave

529
00:24:40,000 --> 00:24:43,320
Speaker 1: me a completely different So guys, go watch the Staircase.

530
00:24:43,320 --> 00:24:46,160
Speaker 1: It's like a ten part documentary, Yeah, forty five minutes

531
00:24:46,200 --> 00:24:46,960
Speaker 1: each or something like that.

532
00:24:47,160 --> 00:24:49,640
Speaker 2: This is what I love about this case is it's

533
00:24:49,720 --> 00:24:53,920
Speaker 2: all opinion. I mean, there's just so many potential. This

534
00:24:54,119 --> 00:24:56,880
Speaker 2: is I feel like this is the part of true

535
00:24:56,960 --> 00:25:01,440
Speaker 2: crime where people started to go, oh, yeah, the justicism

536
00:25:02,000 --> 00:25:05,200
Speaker 2: and I should say this white people whoor like not

537
00:25:05,359 --> 00:25:08,920
Speaker 2: people of color started to go, oh, the justice system could.

538
00:25:08,760 --> 00:25:11,399
Speaker 1: Get swayed one way or the other based on what the.

539
00:25:11,400 --> 00:25:14,879
Speaker 2: People in charge think of who they're trying, right, and

540
00:25:15,080 --> 00:25:18,200
Speaker 2: that I don't think anyone really really looked at that

541
00:25:18,400 --> 00:25:21,040
Speaker 2: much before this case, where there's like, now, look at it,

542
00:25:21,200 --> 00:25:22,879
Speaker 2: this way and then you're like, oh my god, they

543
00:25:22,920 --> 00:25:24,159
Speaker 2: hated him because of this and that.

544
00:25:24,400 --> 00:25:27,000
Speaker 1: I mean, this is the original jinks. This is the

545
00:25:27,119 --> 00:25:30,520
Speaker 1: original making a murderer. Like, if you have feelings about that,

546
00:25:31,160 --> 00:25:32,840
Speaker 1: you know, you need to watch this. I think this

547
00:25:34,119 --> 00:25:37,719
Speaker 1: was way before. It's you know, time, and I think

548
00:25:37,760 --> 00:25:43,160
Speaker 1: this also two years before. It seems so vintage, doesn't it. Well,

549
00:25:43,240 --> 00:25:46,760
Speaker 1: the like the American Justice I watched today was super vindu.

550
00:25:47,119 --> 00:25:49,639
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, well I watched the Forensic Okay, let's talk

551
00:25:49,680 --> 00:25:52,760
Speaker 1: about the fucking case. All right, well, let's get into this.

552
00:25:52,920 --> 00:25:54,840
Speaker 1: Do you get into it? So this is this is

553
00:25:55,119 --> 00:25:58,240
Speaker 1: the death of Kathleen Peterson.

554
00:26:02,280 --> 00:26:05,119
Speaker 2: The episode of The American Justice that I watched starring

555
00:26:05,160 --> 00:26:07,439
Speaker 2: Bill Curtis from two thousand and four was called Blood

556
00:26:07,480 --> 00:26:08,240
Speaker 2: on the Staircase.

557
00:26:08,320 --> 00:26:13,560
Speaker 1: Okay, well, the Forensic Files is called a novel idea

558
00:26:13,880 --> 00:26:17,480
Speaker 1: because he was a novelist. It's a novel idea to

559
00:26:17,560 --> 00:26:21,159
Speaker 1: kill your wife. Yeah. I'm like, oh man, yeah, love it.

560
00:26:21,760 --> 00:26:31,080
Speaker 1: Blood on the Staircase. Okay, sorry, steven On, can I

561
00:26:31,200 --> 00:26:33,639
Speaker 1: just say, yeah, oh wait, are we going to cut

562
00:26:33,680 --> 00:26:34,160
Speaker 1: that entirely?

563
00:26:34,280 --> 00:26:36,480
Speaker 2: Kius Georgia cut up to get something and as she

564
00:26:36,880 --> 00:26:40,200
Speaker 2: walked over to her stairs started walking down then and goes,

565
00:26:40,320 --> 00:26:42,400
Speaker 2: oh my god, what if I fall down the stairs?

566
00:26:42,640 --> 00:26:45,320
Speaker 1: Wouldn't that be great? Have I just died? Are you

567
00:26:45,400 --> 00:26:49,000
Speaker 1: falling down the stairs? So clean? One hundredth episodes about

568
00:26:49,080 --> 00:26:51,000
Speaker 1: a staircase fall. About a staircase fall.

569
00:26:51,080 --> 00:26:53,399
Speaker 2: You can't see anything, so Steven and I can actually

570
00:26:53,440 --> 00:26:56,680
Speaker 2: say anything we want happened. And as long as we're

571
00:26:56,760 --> 00:26:57,800
Speaker 2: on the same page.

572
00:26:57,600 --> 00:26:59,760
Speaker 1: And the recording would be played in court over and

573
00:27:00,040 --> 00:27:03,240
Speaker 1: over again because as I yell, I go no, Karen

574
00:27:03,320 --> 00:27:05,560
Speaker 1: and Stephen, that's what I yell for no reason. And

575
00:27:05,640 --> 00:27:07,000
Speaker 1: then I'll be like your honor.

576
00:27:07,440 --> 00:27:10,400
Speaker 2: You can clearly hear Stephen stroking his mustache.

577
00:27:10,960 --> 00:27:12,320
Speaker 1: You know he's sitting down.

578
00:27:12,840 --> 00:27:16,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, you can you hear me eating cake and drooling

579
00:27:16,160 --> 00:27:17,520
Speaker 2: about fucking well.

580
00:27:17,440 --> 00:27:19,240
Speaker 1: Where was the cake place at the time? Was it

581
00:27:19,320 --> 00:27:22,000
Speaker 1: on the staircase? It was into my mouth? Okay the

582
00:27:22,080 --> 00:27:24,240
Speaker 1: whole time. Should we just read them at the same time?

583
00:27:24,359 --> 00:27:27,280
Speaker 1: And sure? And then I was thinking, you mean two

584
00:27:27,320 --> 00:27:29,320
Speaker 1: people talk on the same time just because they're ready

585
00:27:29,320 --> 00:27:34,280
Speaker 1: on December nineteennineteen or nineth seventy two. Also, I also

586
00:27:34,359 --> 00:27:35,880
Speaker 1: I think at the beginning of this we should say

587
00:27:36,480 --> 00:27:41,480
Speaker 1: what we think like what we think the truth is okay,

588
00:27:41,720 --> 00:27:44,800
Speaker 1: and I think we should say that till the end. Well,

589
00:27:44,840 --> 00:27:48,119
Speaker 1: I mean to convince you at my truth? Okay, what

590
00:27:48,200 --> 00:27:49,200
Speaker 1: are you about you? What about you?

591
00:27:49,480 --> 00:27:49,600
Speaker 2: Well?

592
00:27:49,640 --> 00:27:51,600
Speaker 1: I was just gonna I mean maybe we just talked

593
00:27:51,680 --> 00:27:55,359
Speaker 1: through okay it and as we go and we'll just

594
00:27:55,760 --> 00:27:57,600
Speaker 1: and then we're yelling at each other. Then we have

595
00:27:57,680 --> 00:28:02,000
Speaker 1: different opinions. Yes, if we're like building each other up,

596
00:28:03,680 --> 00:28:06,040
Speaker 1: if love can build a bridge, Yeah, then we both

597
00:28:06,080 --> 00:28:08,720
Speaker 1: think he's guilty. I definitely think he's good.

598
00:28:08,760 --> 00:28:09,000
Speaker 3: Me too.

599
00:28:09,080 --> 00:28:14,680
Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, you know what's funny is, before I watched

600
00:28:14,760 --> 00:28:18,440
Speaker 1: The Doctor the Staircase, I thought I was like, well

601
00:28:18,480 --> 00:28:21,800
Speaker 1: they owl theory makes so much sense, which we'll get

602
00:28:21,800 --> 00:28:24,440
Speaker 1: to you guys. Yes, But now that I'm like, oh no,

603
00:28:24,760 --> 00:28:28,480
Speaker 1: you're so sweet, baby angel. You think that fucking UFOs exist?

604
00:28:28,640 --> 00:28:30,240
Speaker 1: And how they do?

605
00:28:30,520 --> 00:28:30,879
Speaker 2: Now we know?

606
00:28:31,320 --> 00:28:32,320
Speaker 1: Now we know they do. They do.

607
00:28:33,480 --> 00:28:39,800
Speaker 2: Alien unidentified alien alloys have been discovered. Aliens exist, We've

608
00:28:39,840 --> 00:28:42,760
Speaker 2: all I've known that anyone that watches ancient Aliens knows

609
00:28:42,800 --> 00:28:44,880
Speaker 2: it and has known it for quite some time.

610
00:28:45,880 --> 00:28:49,480
Speaker 1: So I bar a Siamese cat knows that they're fucking alien.

611
00:28:49,240 --> 00:28:52,120
Speaker 2: That aliens live here, they were here first, Huh, it's

612
00:28:52,200 --> 00:28:54,120
Speaker 2: their planet, we're visiting it everything.

613
00:28:54,560 --> 00:28:59,160
Speaker 1: Wait, uh no, but uh, I was gonna say that.

614
00:28:59,280 --> 00:29:02,560
Speaker 2: I think that the in that documentary is so amazing

615
00:29:03,120 --> 00:29:08,720
Speaker 2: and effective is because you never see, or you rarely

616
00:29:08,840 --> 00:29:14,120
Speaker 2: see the murderer's family featured the way this family's featured.

617
00:29:15,440 --> 00:29:18,120
Speaker 2: So you go through it with the family, yeah, and

618
00:29:18,280 --> 00:29:21,160
Speaker 2: you want what the family wants because there's so much

619
00:29:21,640 --> 00:29:25,440
Speaker 2: pain and horror going on, and the layers keep unpeeling

620
00:29:25,520 --> 00:29:28,680
Speaker 2: where you're like, oh no, So then you start to understand.

621
00:29:28,360 --> 00:29:31,800
Speaker 1: Why people do the things they I had it was

622
00:29:31,880 --> 00:29:35,560
Speaker 1: so watching it was so problematic for me because it

623
00:29:35,720 --> 00:29:38,160
Speaker 1: kind of it made me what's so funny about the

624
00:29:38,480 --> 00:29:42,360
Speaker 1: documentary is clearly made from a standpoint that he is innocent,

625
00:29:43,560 --> 00:29:46,200
Speaker 1: which is so ironic that it made me one hundred

626
00:29:46,200 --> 00:29:49,960
Speaker 1: percent sure that he's guilty. So there's something fucking off there.

627
00:29:50,080 --> 00:29:53,600
Speaker 1: And what is off is Michael Peterson's personality. Hell yeah,

628
00:29:53,600 --> 00:29:57,040
Speaker 1: and how fucking creepy and narcissistic and wrong he is.

629
00:29:57,560 --> 00:30:00,920
Speaker 1: And I swear to God, the two doctor the daughters,

630
00:30:01,280 --> 00:30:04,480
Speaker 1: they're in a fucking cult. Don't call your dad right

631
00:30:04,720 --> 00:30:07,160
Speaker 1: because he's because you got to get off the phone

632
00:30:07,200 --> 00:30:10,640
Speaker 1: with your dad. Those girls. Man, it's very sad, but it's.

633
00:30:10,840 --> 00:30:14,600
Speaker 2: But I think, well, I think that documentary wasn't necessarily

634
00:30:14,720 --> 00:30:17,000
Speaker 2: on his side. I think they were doing the we're

635
00:30:17,120 --> 00:30:20,000
Speaker 2: just veritey, we're here to record what's happening, and what

636
00:30:20,120 --> 00:30:21,160
Speaker 2: happens happened.

637
00:30:20,840 --> 00:30:24,800
Speaker 1: Land out so much evidence that that that's I just

638
00:30:24,840 --> 00:30:25,800
Speaker 1: don't think that's possible.

639
00:30:25,920 --> 00:30:31,920
Speaker 2: Oh okay, well, but I think it in in pretending

640
00:30:32,040 --> 00:30:35,720
Speaker 2: that it's guiding you this way, opens the door to

641
00:30:35,920 --> 00:30:37,000
Speaker 2: let you go that way.

642
00:30:37,080 --> 00:30:37,640
Speaker 1: You know what I mean.

643
00:30:37,680 --> 00:30:39,840
Speaker 2: It's that thing of like you can come all the

644
00:30:39,840 --> 00:30:41,840
Speaker 2: way into the house because we know he's innocent, and

645
00:30:41,920 --> 00:30:44,880
Speaker 2: then you're like, yeah, I smell a rat, which none

646
00:30:44,920 --> 00:30:46,880
Speaker 2: of that would have happened if they hadn't done it

647
00:30:46,960 --> 00:30:47,280
Speaker 2: that way.

648
00:30:47,560 --> 00:30:49,800
Speaker 1: It's like, it's the case of fucking this guy who

649
00:30:49,880 --> 00:30:54,000
Speaker 1: thinks that he seems very empathetic and that and seems

650
00:30:54,040 --> 00:30:57,400
Speaker 1: deep and interesting, when really everyone is so onto him.

651
00:30:57,760 --> 00:31:01,000
Speaker 1: Can I read what he's what he can? I just

652
00:31:01,120 --> 00:31:04,040
Speaker 1: can we start by me saying, uh, when he got out,

653
00:31:04,160 --> 00:31:07,000
Speaker 1: when he got out on bail of prison, the first

654
00:31:07,080 --> 00:31:08,840
Speaker 1: thing he said, are you ready for are you ready

655
00:31:08,840 --> 00:31:11,320
Speaker 1: for this? To say that, oh, do have it on car,

656
00:31:11,360 --> 00:31:14,120
Speaker 1: Go ahead, and then we'll see if it's the same thing. Okay,

657
00:31:15,240 --> 00:31:18,120
Speaker 1: Kathleen was my life. I whisper her name in my

658
00:31:18,200 --> 00:31:21,600
Speaker 1: heart a thousand times. She is there, but I can't

659
00:31:21,600 --> 00:31:22,280
Speaker 1: stop crying.

660
00:31:22,720 --> 00:31:26,840
Speaker 6: Kathleen, where's my life? I whispered her name in my

661
00:31:27,080 --> 00:31:32,200
Speaker 6: heart a thousand times. She is there, but I can't

662
00:31:32,240 --> 00:31:36,120
Speaker 6: stop crying. It's just like I would never have done anything.

663
00:31:37,840 --> 00:31:42,200
Speaker 3: That's okay, I am charges real loud, and we will

664
00:31:42,280 --> 00:31:42,480
Speaker 3: prove it.

665
00:31:42,600 --> 00:31:42,920
Speaker 5: Be for it.

666
00:31:43,240 --> 00:31:45,280
Speaker 1: Well, if we're gonna, I have such a talk about

667
00:31:45,320 --> 00:31:47,640
Speaker 1: about those last two lines too. Oh my god, let's

668
00:31:47,640 --> 00:31:49,360
Speaker 1: get into this. This is gonna be fun because those

669
00:31:49,400 --> 00:31:52,360
Speaker 1: last two lines, Oh god, I have this okay, but really.

670
00:31:52,280 --> 00:31:54,840
Speaker 2: Quick, so you and I just picked out the exact

671
00:31:54,880 --> 00:31:57,040
Speaker 2: same moment where because that was also in.

672
00:31:57,160 --> 00:31:59,120
Speaker 1: That episode of The Way Everyone. He's in an asphalt

673
00:31:59,200 --> 00:32:00,640
Speaker 1: parking lot when he says.

674
00:32:00,440 --> 00:32:02,680
Speaker 2: That with camp with news cameras in front of him,

675
00:32:02,760 --> 00:32:04,880
Speaker 2: and he is doing the worst acting.

676
00:32:05,000 --> 00:32:10,040
Speaker 1: It's like a sorrow. It's it's it was faux somber.

677
00:32:10,320 --> 00:32:12,680
Speaker 2: And then like, I'm a really good writer. So here's

678
00:32:12,800 --> 00:32:15,080
Speaker 2: you can see him practicing this in the mirror. It

679
00:32:15,240 --> 00:32:17,800
Speaker 2: is the fakest fucking thing you've ever seen. And it

680
00:32:17,920 --> 00:32:20,360
Speaker 2: is such a presentation, it's so much.

681
00:32:20,280 --> 00:32:25,200
Speaker 1: Artific and the background is his poor daughter. Okay, serious, God.

682
00:32:25,040 --> 00:32:26,560
Speaker 2: I was going to say it's starting from the nine

683
00:32:26,560 --> 00:32:29,640
Speaker 2: to one one call, which is also insanely faked. Okay, well,

684
00:32:29,720 --> 00:32:31,840
Speaker 2: here's what I told see you and let me out

685
00:32:31,840 --> 00:32:33,320
Speaker 2: here up for that, you know what, we might need

686
00:32:33,400 --> 00:32:35,800
Speaker 2: to start doing things at the same one at.

687
00:32:35,760 --> 00:32:41,239
Speaker 1: This episode one hundred through fucking ninety nine is us

688
00:32:41,360 --> 00:32:43,080
Speaker 1: two gethers. They're not knowing.

689
00:32:44,320 --> 00:32:45,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, we don't know what the case is. Either that

690
00:32:46,160 --> 00:32:48,480
Speaker 2: or this is because we both want to say something.

691
00:32:48,560 --> 00:32:50,720
Speaker 2: The most irritating episode you've ever did.

692
00:32:50,760 --> 00:32:53,480
Speaker 1: The biggest cluster fuck, which is why, like some people

693
00:32:53,520 --> 00:32:55,040
Speaker 1: who don't know what this case is are like, can

694
00:32:55,080 --> 00:32:57,320
Speaker 1: you just tell me what happened first? If you don't

695
00:32:57,320 --> 00:32:59,600
Speaker 1: know what the case is, you know what, you know what,

696
00:33:00,120 --> 00:33:02,920
Speaker 1: you know what? Hang up? Please don't hang up the phone,

697
00:33:02,960 --> 00:33:05,160
Speaker 1: Hang up the phone, all right?

698
00:33:05,680 --> 00:33:05,920
Speaker 4: Okay.

699
00:33:06,080 --> 00:33:08,560
Speaker 1: On December ninth, two thousand and one, this dude named

700
00:33:08,560 --> 00:33:11,600
Speaker 1: Michael Peterson you heard his voice, He's a creep, called

701
00:33:11,680 --> 00:33:13,440
Speaker 1: nine one one to report that he had just found

702
00:33:13,440 --> 00:33:16,400
Speaker 1: his wife of fourteen years forty eight year old Kathleen unconscious,

703
00:33:17,000 --> 00:33:19,360
Speaker 1: and he said he thought that she fell down the

704
00:33:19,440 --> 00:33:23,800
Speaker 1: stairs of their Forest Hills home in Durham, uh, North Carolina.

705
00:33:23,920 --> 00:33:26,440
Speaker 1: Ye Michael said that he had been outside by the

706
00:33:26,520 --> 00:33:29,040
Speaker 1: pool and had come in at two forty am to

707
00:33:29,120 --> 00:33:31,960
Speaker 1: find Kathleen at the foot of their stairs. He maintained

708
00:33:31,960 --> 00:33:33,760
Speaker 1: that she must have fallen down the stairs, app because

709
00:33:33,760 --> 00:33:35,840
Speaker 1: they had been drinking and she had taken valium all night.

710
00:33:35,920 --> 00:33:37,160
Speaker 1: Interjected any fucking moment.

711
00:33:37,200 --> 00:33:39,200
Speaker 2: Oh, I was just gonna say, vallium is kind of

712
00:33:39,240 --> 00:33:41,880
Speaker 2: a one off thing and my experience, Yeah, it's not

713
00:33:42,040 --> 00:33:43,760
Speaker 2: like you party with it all night long. All right,

714
00:33:43,960 --> 00:33:45,240
Speaker 2: you take the one you're gonna go to.

715
00:33:45,280 --> 00:33:47,520
Speaker 1: Bed, good night. Yeah, and a story. Yeah okay. But

716
00:33:47,600 --> 00:33:49,640
Speaker 1: when police arrived, the amount of blood on the walls

717
00:33:49,680 --> 00:33:53,840
Speaker 1: made them suspicious, so toxic. College reports showed that Kathleen

718
00:33:53,880 --> 00:33:57,200
Speaker 1: had an alcohol content of zero point zero seven percent.

719
00:33:57,440 --> 00:33:59,719
Speaker 1: How make Karen? I want to ask you something right now,

720
00:34:00,000 --> 00:34:03,000
Speaker 1: I was thinking, can be fun. We gotta we got

721
00:34:03,120 --> 00:34:06,840
Speaker 1: a breathalyzer and made Steven get that drunk and see

722
00:34:07,880 --> 00:34:09,120
Speaker 1: it's not that Druyn and I way.

723
00:34:09,040 --> 00:34:12,040
Speaker 2: Say that down the stairs, four healthy glasses of wine. Yeah,

724
00:34:12,280 --> 00:34:16,720
Speaker 2: because point eight is legally right, that's that's not illegal

725
00:34:16,760 --> 00:34:20,360
Speaker 2: in North Carolina. But see, my point is it's not

726
00:34:20,520 --> 00:34:23,920
Speaker 2: that high like you can get arrested for buzz driving

727
00:34:24,160 --> 00:34:28,040
Speaker 2: because point eight is not sloppy, drunk crazy point eight.

728
00:34:28,120 --> 00:34:30,760
Speaker 1: You shouldn't drive at that point you have impaired yourself,

729
00:34:31,239 --> 00:34:34,760
Speaker 1: but you're not you know, you know, so Devil's advocate,

730
00:34:34,800 --> 00:34:37,640
Speaker 1: it's not impossible that that at that point you'd fallen

731
00:34:37,640 --> 00:34:40,759
Speaker 1: down the flight of stairs if you're running up them. Yeah,

732
00:34:41,000 --> 00:34:43,600
Speaker 1: but sorry, she's running up stairs.

733
00:34:43,760 --> 00:34:48,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, and she's falling backwards, not not from the top

734
00:34:48,160 --> 00:34:50,800
Speaker 2: of the stairs, but almost from the bottom of the stairs.

735
00:34:50,840 --> 00:34:54,480
Speaker 1: Well, let's get to that, okay too. So Michael claimed

736
00:34:54,480 --> 00:34:56,600
Speaker 1: that he had been outside by the pool with Kathleen.

737
00:34:56,719 --> 00:34:59,000
Speaker 1: They had been talking because they're madly in love with

738
00:34:59,080 --> 00:35:02,920
Speaker 1: each other, according to him, until she went in around midnight,

739
00:35:03,160 --> 00:35:05,600
Speaker 1: and that he had come home come back in around

740
00:35:06,320 --> 00:35:09,360
Speaker 1: forty five minutes later. Two four. I don't know the

741
00:35:09,440 --> 00:35:11,440
Speaker 1: timeline is where to find her at the foot of

742
00:35:11,440 --> 00:35:14,440
Speaker 1: the stairs. So but here's the thing. It was fucking

743
00:35:14,600 --> 00:35:17,040
Speaker 1: December and he's saying he's sitting by the pool finishing

744
00:35:17,120 --> 00:35:19,319
Speaker 1: his drink and shit and shorts and a T shirt.

745
00:35:19,440 --> 00:35:21,480
Speaker 1: It's fifty to fifty five degrees outside.

746
00:35:22,760 --> 00:35:25,480
Speaker 2: You know how you do, right, which is like, yeah,

747
00:35:25,560 --> 00:35:30,000
Speaker 2: your couch and your warmhouse is whatever forty feet away,

748
00:35:30,560 --> 00:35:32,080
Speaker 2: You're just gonna go sit by the ball unless they

749
00:35:32,120 --> 00:35:33,760
Speaker 2: were fighting for forty five minutes.

750
00:35:34,480 --> 00:35:37,040
Speaker 1: But it's also a fucking collacial mansion, so there's eight

751
00:35:37,160 --> 00:35:38,359
Speaker 1: hundred rooms for you to go into.

752
00:35:38,640 --> 00:35:40,840
Speaker 2: Yes, but I mean like if they got into a

753
00:35:41,000 --> 00:35:44,000
Speaker 2: spat at the pool, yeah, and she stormed in a

754
00:35:44,440 --> 00:35:47,279
Speaker 2: if she fell so badly that she was killed, you

755
00:35:47,320 --> 00:35:49,239
Speaker 2: would hear that, and you would hope that you would

756
00:35:49,280 --> 00:35:52,080
Speaker 2: be clonk even if you didn't know for sure, you'd

757
00:35:52,120 --> 00:35:54,919
Speaker 2: be like, maybe I should go check, even if I'm mad,

758
00:35:55,080 --> 00:35:55,839
Speaker 2: I should go check.

759
00:35:55,960 --> 00:36:00,080
Speaker 1: He doesn't do that right for an hour? Yes, ok

760
00:36:00,960 --> 00:36:03,399
Speaker 1: da da da okay, and the other thing is too,

761
00:36:03,520 --> 00:36:06,520
Speaker 1: so he calls nine to one one and before the

762
00:36:06,560 --> 00:36:10,640
Speaker 1: ambulance gets there. Between that time, his son Todd from

763
00:36:10,680 --> 00:36:14,399
Speaker 1: a previous marriage, who's like in his twenties, is already there.

764
00:36:14,719 --> 00:36:16,759
Speaker 1: Well what's he doing there? Okay? Well he lived at

765
00:36:16,800 --> 00:36:18,759
Speaker 1: the house though, No he didn't. Oh I thought he did.

766
00:36:18,840 --> 00:36:19,480
Speaker 1: I don't think he did.

767
00:36:19,680 --> 00:36:22,120
Speaker 2: He was out of the house at a party. Yes,

768
00:36:22,440 --> 00:36:25,440
Speaker 2: this was a The American Justice that I watched. He

769
00:36:25,560 --> 00:36:27,799
Speaker 2: was down the street at a party, okay, and then

770
00:36:27,880 --> 00:36:28,319
Speaker 2: came home.

771
00:36:28,440 --> 00:36:31,880
Speaker 1: So the autopsy report concluded that Kathleen sustained severe injuries,

772
00:36:31,960 --> 00:36:35,399
Speaker 1: including a fracture of the thyroid neck cartilage, which isn't

773
00:36:35,480 --> 00:36:39,200
Speaker 1: the hyoid bone noways talk about, but something similar, and

774
00:36:39,480 --> 00:36:42,239
Speaker 1: seven lacerations at the top and back of her head

775
00:36:42,520 --> 00:36:47,160
Speaker 1: consistent with blows from a blunt object caused by homicidal assault,

776
00:36:47,880 --> 00:36:51,000
Speaker 1: and had died from blood loss ninety minutes to two

777
00:36:51,120 --> 00:36:54,600
Speaker 1: hours after sustaining her injuries. So here's what I was thinking,

778
00:36:55,080 --> 00:36:58,000
Speaker 1: Since we both think he's guilty and it's all bullshit,

779
00:36:58,520 --> 00:37:00,400
Speaker 1: should we listened to the nine one one call? No,

780
00:37:00,719 --> 00:37:02,960
Speaker 1: come on, okay, you can play it. You can play it,

781
00:37:03,120 --> 00:37:05,359
Speaker 1: but it's we can we can say it too.

782
00:37:05,840 --> 00:37:09,279
Speaker 2: It's normally nine one one calls upset me because it's

783
00:37:09,320 --> 00:37:10,800
Speaker 2: a real moment of the worst.

784
00:37:10,920 --> 00:37:14,160
Speaker 1: It like makes my adrenaline go yeah like, but this.

785
00:37:14,360 --> 00:37:18,440
Speaker 2: Instead fills me with absolute disgust because it's insanely faked.

786
00:37:18,520 --> 00:37:20,560
Speaker 1: That's why I want to listen to it, because it's like,

787
00:37:21,080 --> 00:37:23,279
Speaker 1: do you have it? I told Steven, I have it ready.

788
00:37:23,360 --> 00:37:31,040
Speaker 1: Just it's just so unbelievable to me. Your margins, the street, grief,

789
00:37:31,360 --> 00:37:33,920
Speaker 1: what wrong? Why kind of act still bring?

790
00:37:34,239 --> 00:37:35,000
Speaker 5: What kind of act?

791
00:37:37,719 --> 00:37:38,040
Speaker 3: He will be?

792
00:37:38,239 --> 00:37:38,680
Speaker 5: Conscious?

793
00:37:39,719 --> 00:37:40,120
Speaker 1: Conscious?

794
00:37:40,200 --> 00:37:41,240
Speaker 7: No, she's not conscious?

795
00:37:42,120 --> 00:37:43,120
Speaker 4: How many stairs did.

796
00:37:43,040 --> 00:37:47,200
Speaker 1: You throw down? How many for bears? How many stairs?

797
00:37:49,320 --> 00:37:53,920
Speaker 1: Calm nails, stars comnails? So fifty and I don't know.

798
00:37:55,000 --> 00:37:56,440
Speaker 4: Get somebody who work.

799
00:37:57,719 --> 00:37:59,680
Speaker 1: In the ambulance. I want to ask you questions.

800
00:38:02,280 --> 00:38:07,160
Speaker 2: Okay, he is the fakery is he wants to get

801
00:38:07,200 --> 00:38:11,600
Speaker 2: off that phone. He is playing a part and he

802
00:38:11,719 --> 00:38:15,279
Speaker 2: can't sustain it. He's delivering his part and that's all

803
00:38:15,320 --> 00:38:17,000
Speaker 2: he can do. And he it's that thing in like

804
00:38:17,120 --> 00:38:19,719
Speaker 2: acting where it's like if you scream really loud, then

805
00:38:19,760 --> 00:38:22,320
Speaker 2: you've are there's nowhere else to go. So he he

806
00:38:22,440 --> 00:38:24,640
Speaker 2: didn't start trying to be calm, which is I think

807
00:38:24,680 --> 00:38:27,720
Speaker 2: what people normally do, or if they're having a reaction,

808
00:38:27,920 --> 00:38:30,600
Speaker 2: they they listen because they need help. So they want

809
00:38:30,680 --> 00:38:32,480
Speaker 2: to listen to what the person who can give them

810
00:38:32,520 --> 00:38:35,520
Speaker 2: help is doing and saying, because the person on.

811
00:38:35,520 --> 00:38:37,560
Speaker 1: The other line is going to tell them how to

812
00:38:37,800 --> 00:38:40,279
Speaker 1: potentially save this person's life. So you need to calm

813
00:38:40,360 --> 00:38:42,360
Speaker 1: down and listen to them. That's what they're trained to do.

814
00:38:42,680 --> 00:38:44,919
Speaker 2: Yeah, but he's not doing any of those things because

815
00:38:44,960 --> 00:38:46,479
Speaker 2: he just wants the big show of how.

816
00:38:46,480 --> 00:38:48,720
Speaker 1: Upset he right, and he wants to deliver his information

817
00:38:48,840 --> 00:38:51,840
Speaker 1: a that she's still alive, to lie about the timeline

818
00:38:52,280 --> 00:38:55,040
Speaker 1: and that she fell downstairs. The fact that he doesn't

819
00:38:55,080 --> 00:38:57,719
Speaker 1: mention and if you see the photos, it's an insane

820
00:38:57,760 --> 00:38:59,719
Speaker 1: amount of blood, and the fact that he doesn't yell

821
00:39:00,520 --> 00:39:02,520
Speaker 1: there's so much blood. Oh my, you know, like most

822
00:39:02,560 --> 00:39:04,520
Speaker 1: people if they see the mam but a blood would

823
00:39:04,560 --> 00:39:05,359
Speaker 1: freak the fuck out.

824
00:39:05,520 --> 00:39:08,719
Speaker 2: Yes, uh, you know the blood part when you like

825
00:39:08,840 --> 00:39:10,800
Speaker 2: in the when the one that I was watching, the

826
00:39:10,960 --> 00:39:13,120
Speaker 2: second the camera goes in and they have like the

827
00:39:13,200 --> 00:39:16,399
Speaker 2: police camera of walking in the amount of blood that's

828
00:39:16,440 --> 00:39:19,200
Speaker 2: there is so ridiculous for a stair fall, for a

829
00:39:19,239 --> 00:39:22,279
Speaker 2: slip and fall downstairs, Yeah, which is not if you

830
00:39:22,400 --> 00:39:24,920
Speaker 2: think about like when you fall down you skin your knee,

831
00:39:24,960 --> 00:39:27,160
Speaker 2: if you hit your head, you'd have a little bit

832
00:39:27,160 --> 00:39:27,520
Speaker 2: of blood.

833
00:39:28,239 --> 00:39:31,480
Speaker 1: Is blood everywhere at the bottom of the stair cooling

834
00:39:32,560 --> 00:39:36,160
Speaker 1: and then smeared and then splattered over it like it's nuts.

835
00:39:36,360 --> 00:39:38,400
Speaker 1: And the other thing that this so this person or

836
00:39:38,480 --> 00:39:42,400
Speaker 1: sla Franco who's a criminologist. She's a really great website

837
00:39:43,880 --> 00:39:48,520
Speaker 1: m A. L k. E. Crime Notes. She she does

838
00:39:48,600 --> 00:39:50,640
Speaker 1: the thing I love, which she breaks down the wording.

839
00:39:50,920 --> 00:39:53,479
Speaker 1: And in a lot of his speeches and things he says,

840
00:39:53,520 --> 00:39:55,120
Speaker 1: and one of them is that when he said, when

841
00:39:55,239 --> 00:39:59,120
Speaker 1: she says how many stairs, that's a question he did

842
00:39:59,200 --> 00:40:02,680
Speaker 1: not expect to hear. And it takes him fifteen to

843
00:40:02,800 --> 00:40:04,920
Speaker 1: twenty five seconds from the beginning of the call to

844
00:40:05,040 --> 00:40:07,920
Speaker 1: answer that because he wasn't near the body when he

845
00:40:08,040 --> 00:40:08,759
Speaker 1: was asked that question.

846
00:40:09,000 --> 00:40:09,279
Speaker 2: Uh huh.

847
00:40:09,400 --> 00:40:13,080
Speaker 1: So the thing is, and she says, most people when

848
00:40:13,320 --> 00:40:15,719
Speaker 1: someone is hurt are next to the body because they're

849
00:40:15,760 --> 00:40:18,640
Speaker 1: ready to help and they want direction on how to help, right,

850
00:40:18,719 --> 00:40:21,040
Speaker 1: But he was in another room, away from the mess,

851
00:40:21,520 --> 00:40:25,759
Speaker 1: and so he stalls by saying, uh, stairs, And it's

852
00:40:25,840 --> 00:40:27,840
Speaker 1: only because he has to run over and see how

853
00:40:27,880 --> 00:40:28,680
Speaker 1: many stairs there are.

854
00:40:28,960 --> 00:40:31,839
Speaker 2: And they said when they did the luminoal test, they

855
00:40:31,960 --> 00:40:36,799
Speaker 2: showed barefoot tracks away from the area and going into

856
00:40:36,840 --> 00:40:37,800
Speaker 2: different parts of the house.

857
00:40:37,920 --> 00:40:40,759
Speaker 1: So he was in the blood. He was standing over

858
00:40:40,840 --> 00:40:41,640
Speaker 1: her body.

859
00:40:41,560 --> 00:40:45,600
Speaker 2: And then left, which is like if your loved one,

860
00:40:45,680 --> 00:40:47,680
Speaker 2: the person that you love the most in the world

861
00:40:48,200 --> 00:40:49,640
Speaker 2: was laying in a pile of blood.

862
00:40:50,560 --> 00:40:54,080
Speaker 1: Where are you going? Yeah, like that doesn't it doesn't

863
00:40:54,120 --> 00:41:03,040
Speaker 1: really track no, seemingly yes, well we're always right, okay.

864
00:41:03,960 --> 00:41:08,840
Speaker 1: So also there's a bloody shoeprint. So, so Kathleen is

865
00:41:08,920 --> 00:41:12,120
Speaker 1: found in this prone position on her back at the

866
00:41:12,160 --> 00:41:17,440
Speaker 1: bottom of the staircase, like laying up the first couple stairs, right,

867
00:41:18,560 --> 00:41:20,560
Speaker 1: So she's on her back, but on the back of

868
00:41:20,640 --> 00:41:26,080
Speaker 1: her sweatpants is a shoeprint that matches the shoes that

869
00:41:26,400 --> 00:41:30,240
Speaker 1: Michael was wearing that night. But when the ambulance arrives

870
00:41:30,280 --> 00:41:32,839
Speaker 1: and the MT arrives, he's not wearing shoes for some reason.

871
00:41:32,880 --> 00:41:35,680
Speaker 1: He's fucking barefoot and his socks and shoes are off

872
00:41:35,719 --> 00:41:38,040
Speaker 1: and like near her body. Why is that because he

873
00:41:38,080 --> 00:41:40,680
Speaker 1: didn't want to track it? Probably right, So how would

874
00:41:40,680 --> 00:41:42,319
Speaker 1: her how would his shoeprint end up there?

875
00:41:43,320 --> 00:41:44,920
Speaker 2: You mean, look like when he kicks her down the

876
00:41:44,960 --> 00:41:47,879
Speaker 2: stairs or kicks her from behind or something. Yeah.

877
00:41:48,320 --> 00:41:50,960
Speaker 1: Well also that when they get into and I mean,

878
00:41:51,000 --> 00:41:51,560
Speaker 1: we're not gonna be.

879
00:41:51,520 --> 00:41:53,640
Speaker 2: Able to do this chronologically, I don't like it's it's

880
00:41:53,760 --> 00:41:56,279
Speaker 2: rexit for the discussion. But like in the in the

881
00:41:56,400 --> 00:42:01,560
Speaker 2: case when when they talk about when the defense is

882
00:42:01,640 --> 00:42:04,440
Speaker 2: talking about what possibly could have happened to make that

883
00:42:04,600 --> 00:42:08,320
Speaker 2: much blood, that is not an attack.

884
00:42:08,239 --> 00:42:11,040
Speaker 1: And that many and that many wounds on her head

885
00:42:11,120 --> 00:42:14,160
Speaker 1: because it's seven wounds. So it's not like she fell

886
00:42:14,239 --> 00:42:17,400
Speaker 1: down the stairs and maybe would have sustained two head injuries.

887
00:42:17,480 --> 00:42:20,680
Speaker 1: Let's let's be generous, because we also know she didn't

888
00:42:20,719 --> 00:42:22,640
Speaker 1: fall from the top of the stairs. Yeah, she fell

889
00:42:22,680 --> 00:42:25,319
Speaker 1: from five or six stairs up. Yeah, so to get

890
00:42:25,680 --> 00:42:28,640
Speaker 1: seven head injuries, how did they explain it? It's fucking hilarious.

891
00:42:29,040 --> 00:42:33,240
Speaker 2: She falls, she hits her head, she gets up, spits blood,

892
00:42:33,680 --> 00:42:37,200
Speaker 2: like they're trying to rationalize how blood is everywhere, she

893
00:42:37,760 --> 00:42:39,880
Speaker 2: slips and falls back down, which is.

894
00:42:39,920 --> 00:42:42,759
Speaker 1: Explaining the fact that she had blood on the bottoms

895
00:42:42,800 --> 00:42:45,400
Speaker 1: of her bare feet, even though if she had so,

896
00:42:45,480 --> 00:42:47,800
Speaker 1: if she had fallen and become unconscious, she wouldn't have

897
00:42:47,840 --> 00:42:50,200
Speaker 1: blood on the bottoms of her feet, right, So she did,

898
00:42:50,320 --> 00:42:53,239
Speaker 1: how Like they have to explain that too, right, So

899
00:42:53,400 --> 00:42:56,520
Speaker 1: that's then they say that she does that multiple times,

900
00:42:56,640 --> 00:42:58,960
Speaker 1: tries to get up, falls and hits her head hard

901
00:42:59,040 --> 00:43:00,760
Speaker 1: enough to last right from fucking skull.

902
00:43:01,000 --> 00:43:04,440
Speaker 2: So meanwhile, her loving, loving husband is sitting out by

903
00:43:04,480 --> 00:43:07,640
Speaker 2: the pool. She is slipping and falling in her own

904
00:43:07,719 --> 00:43:10,280
Speaker 2: blood and dying and he doesn't hear it and doesn't

905
00:43:10,320 --> 00:43:11,440
Speaker 2: come inside for forty.

906
00:43:11,239 --> 00:43:16,080
Speaker 1: Five from a point zero seven wine intake and a valium.

907
00:43:16,600 --> 00:43:18,399
Speaker 2: I just keep thinking of the time I fell down

908
00:43:18,600 --> 00:43:20,239
Speaker 2: on the street in front of the movie theater, my

909
00:43:20,360 --> 00:43:24,600
Speaker 2: legendary story where I skin my knee. When you fall down,

910
00:43:24,840 --> 00:43:29,239
Speaker 2: even like say eight stairs, you break a hip, you

911
00:43:29,360 --> 00:43:30,280
Speaker 2: break your kneecap.

912
00:43:31,880 --> 00:43:33,239
Speaker 1: I don't think anyone ever does that.

913
00:43:33,360 --> 00:43:37,200
Speaker 2: But I'm just saying, yes, you sprain your ankle, you

914
00:43:37,280 --> 00:43:39,239
Speaker 2: get a concussion on your head. If you did cut

915
00:43:39,280 --> 00:43:41,840
Speaker 2: your head, you have a little bit of blood. The

916
00:43:42,000 --> 00:43:44,960
Speaker 2: idea that there's a pool of blood, blood splattered on

917
00:43:45,160 --> 00:43:47,160
Speaker 2: every wall, smeared all around.

918
00:43:47,239 --> 00:43:49,480
Speaker 1: And to be fair, we all know the head the

919
00:43:49,600 --> 00:43:54,400
Speaker 1: scalp bleeds profusely. Yeah, fair enough, But why would seven

920
00:43:54,600 --> 00:43:58,799
Speaker 1: lacerations be present if you know it's it's and all

921
00:43:58,880 --> 00:44:01,279
Speaker 1: in the same spot. It's not like all like she's

922
00:44:01,360 --> 00:44:03,640
Speaker 1: falling down and hit her temple, hit the back of

923
00:44:03,680 --> 00:44:06,640
Speaker 1: her head. It's all on the back and lower part

924
00:44:06,640 --> 00:44:08,120
Speaker 1: of her head, as if she was running up the

925
00:44:08,160 --> 00:44:10,799
Speaker 1: stairs away from someone. Yep, and they hit her with something.

926
00:44:10,880 --> 00:44:16,920
Speaker 1: It clocked her like repeatedly beat her down. Essentially, what

927
00:44:17,040 --> 00:44:20,000
Speaker 1: I think is interesting is that there's a spot of

928
00:44:20,160 --> 00:44:23,720
Speaker 1: blood on the wall, as if the first attack had happened,

929
00:44:23,880 --> 00:44:26,080
Speaker 1: someone tried to clean up the blood and then she

930
00:44:26,280 --> 00:44:30,719
Speaker 1: wasn't dead, and there's blood. There's blood spray over the

931
00:44:30,920 --> 00:44:33,719
Speaker 1: spot where someone was trying to clean the blood off

932
00:44:33,760 --> 00:44:36,839
Speaker 1: the wall. Yes, as so that means either I think

933
00:44:36,880 --> 00:44:40,680
Speaker 1: it's either that she became conscious again and wasn't dead

934
00:44:40,680 --> 00:44:44,600
Speaker 1: and he beat her again, or he tried to clean it,

935
00:44:44,719 --> 00:44:46,600
Speaker 1: realized it wasn't going to work, and so tried to

936
00:44:46,719 --> 00:44:50,239
Speaker 1: cover up that clean spot with more blood just kind

937
00:44:50,239 --> 00:44:52,239
Speaker 1: of sprayed it on there. Jesus, do you know what

938
00:44:52,320 --> 00:44:55,240
Speaker 1: I mean? Yes, that's dark. I mean, like the idea

939
00:44:55,280 --> 00:44:58,360
Speaker 1: that then he's just he's just like dissociated, like, but

940
00:44:58,480 --> 00:45:00,560
Speaker 1: she can tell the difference between the blood that was

941
00:45:00,600 --> 00:45:04,799
Speaker 1: already there in the blood that wasn't that came later. Yeah. Yeah,

942
00:45:05,000 --> 00:45:08,719
Speaker 1: I mean, there's so many things in this case that

943
00:45:08,880 --> 00:45:11,800
Speaker 1: make it so he'll never so people can question this forever,

944
00:45:12,160 --> 00:45:15,440
Speaker 1: and one of them is the fucking blood spatter analyst.

945
00:45:16,280 --> 00:45:18,400
Speaker 1: I mean, who Dwayne, Dwayne?

946
00:45:19,480 --> 00:45:22,920
Speaker 2: Dwayne Truly my favorite part of that documentary because he

947
00:45:23,120 --> 00:45:25,440
Speaker 2: looks like he was cast by the Cohen Brothers.

948
00:45:26,200 --> 00:45:28,200
Speaker 1: He is the goofiest looking motherfucker.

949
00:45:28,840 --> 00:45:31,600
Speaker 2: And the way he talks about the blood spatter, the

950
00:45:31,680 --> 00:45:34,840
Speaker 2: way he gets excited like he's the expert here or whatever.

951
00:45:35,160 --> 00:45:37,279
Speaker 2: And then of course, come to find out later on,

952
00:45:37,920 --> 00:45:41,040
Speaker 2: after this case, after he's tried, after he's convicted, this

953
00:45:41,200 --> 00:45:45,560
Speaker 2: blood spatter guy turns out. Wait, I have the details

954
00:45:45,640 --> 00:45:50,520
Speaker 2: here from Stephen's timeline and also from I wrote dirty

955
00:45:50,600 --> 00:45:52,240
Speaker 2: Dwayne Deaver, Dirty Dwayne.

956
00:45:53,080 --> 00:45:54,320
Speaker 1: A government ordered.

957
00:45:54,120 --> 00:45:58,239
Speaker 2: Inquest found the agents of the SBI, including Dwayne Deaver,

958
00:45:58,400 --> 00:46:03,080
Speaker 2: repeatedly aided prosecutor and obtaining convictions over a sixteen year

959
00:46:03,200 --> 00:46:08,080
Speaker 2: period by misrepresenting blood evidence and keeping critical notes from

960
00:46:08,120 --> 00:46:11,280
Speaker 2: the attorneys. It was thirty four cases where he falsely

961
00:46:11,400 --> 00:46:12,360
Speaker 2: represented evidence.

962
00:46:12,480 --> 00:46:17,680
Speaker 1: So essentially, Michael Peterson gets found guilty, he spends eight

963
00:46:17,800 --> 00:46:21,279
Speaker 1: years in prison, and then fucking dirty Dwayne comes out

964
00:46:21,360 --> 00:46:24,000
Speaker 1: that he's a lying liar who lies. Yeah, and all

965
00:46:24,040 --> 00:46:26,360
Speaker 1: this shit comes out. And so even if his fucking

966
00:46:26,920 --> 00:46:29,279
Speaker 1: even if his blood spatter analysis in this case was

967
00:46:29,320 --> 00:46:32,320
Speaker 1: totally correct, it doesn't fucking matter which some of it

968
00:46:32,520 --> 00:46:34,560
Speaker 1: is and some of it I understand isn't.

969
00:46:34,719 --> 00:46:37,120
Speaker 2: Well it's a lot of it is just him riffing.

970
00:46:37,280 --> 00:46:39,160
Speaker 2: So it's like him at home going, well, if you

971
00:46:39,320 --> 00:46:41,680
Speaker 2: do this, then this and if we hear I'm going

972
00:46:41,719 --> 00:46:44,239
Speaker 2: to do this one. Yeah, he's doing a lot of

973
00:46:44,400 --> 00:46:48,640
Speaker 2: like I approximated it, so this is scientific.

974
00:46:48,200 --> 00:46:50,560
Speaker 1: Evidence, like he does it enough times until it fits

975
00:46:50,680 --> 00:46:53,759
Speaker 1: the story he wants to tell, right, which is so problematic, Yeah,

976
00:46:55,480 --> 00:46:57,960
Speaker 1: and crazy and the idea that.

977
00:46:59,800 --> 00:47:02,920
Speaker 2: That amount what was I gonna say it was the

978
00:47:03,400 --> 00:47:07,960
Speaker 2: amount of blood and the yeah, just to me, it's

979
00:47:08,080 --> 00:47:10,480
Speaker 2: open and shut in that part where it's like if

980
00:47:10,520 --> 00:47:14,160
Speaker 2: you're saying she fell backwards down the stairs a couple times,

981
00:47:14,680 --> 00:47:18,000
Speaker 2: it still does not It just doesn't explain that amount

982
00:47:18,000 --> 00:47:19,360
Speaker 2: of blood, right, it doesn't.

983
00:47:19,680 --> 00:47:22,640
Speaker 1: Right, Well, he so Michael Peterson also had blood on

984
00:47:22,719 --> 00:47:28,760
Speaker 1: the inside crotch of his shorts, so that you know dirty.

985
00:47:28,800 --> 00:47:30,960
Speaker 1: Dwayne's argument was that could only happen if he was

986
00:47:31,040 --> 00:47:34,920
Speaker 1: standing over her beating her blood spatter, which is probably

987
00:47:35,000 --> 00:47:35,680
Speaker 1: fucking true.

988
00:47:36,239 --> 00:47:40,560
Speaker 2: Yes, But but then I guess scientifically you can say,

989
00:47:40,800 --> 00:47:43,640
Speaker 2: but you could sit here and go, or if he

990
00:47:44,560 --> 00:47:47,040
Speaker 2: he flicked his shoe up, and there's some like you

991
00:47:47,160 --> 00:47:50,960
Speaker 2: can't attest for what happens to liquid in a certain scenario.

992
00:47:51,280 --> 00:47:53,160
Speaker 1: The thing I think is super fake.

993
00:47:53,280 --> 00:47:56,799
Speaker 2: I mean, like it sucks because that guy himself being

994
00:47:56,840 --> 00:48:00,160
Speaker 2: a fraud, made everything a fraud. Where it's still well,

995
00:48:00,680 --> 00:48:03,320
Speaker 2: it's the amount of blood, whatever direction it's spattered in

996
00:48:03,440 --> 00:48:05,920
Speaker 2: or whatever. This is not a I fell down the

997
00:48:05,960 --> 00:48:09,360
Speaker 2: stairs and hit my head a couple times reasonably.

998
00:48:09,560 --> 00:48:12,400
Speaker 1: Yeah, this is like a murder scene. But there's like

999
00:48:12,680 --> 00:48:14,520
Speaker 1: four things and we'll get to all of them. But

1000
00:48:14,600 --> 00:48:17,759
Speaker 1: there's four things that make you go, this isn't this

1001
00:48:17,920 --> 00:48:19,920
Speaker 1: isn't an open and shutcase. And one of them is

1002
00:48:20,120 --> 00:48:23,960
Speaker 1: dirty Dwayne, and we'll get to the other ones well.

1003
00:48:24,000 --> 00:48:26,440
Speaker 2: And the daughter I never saw this in the staircase,

1004
00:48:26,520 --> 00:48:29,560
Speaker 2: but the daughter Caitlin, who was Kathleen's daughter from her

1005
00:48:29,640 --> 00:48:35,160
Speaker 2: first marriage, she said that when they first when Kathleen

1006
00:48:35,200 --> 00:48:37,080
Speaker 2: and Michael first got married and she moved into the

1007
00:48:37,120 --> 00:48:39,480
Speaker 2: house with the family, she saw him with like a

1008
00:48:39,680 --> 00:48:43,360
Speaker 2: hair trigger temper and rage issues several times.

1009
00:48:43,600 --> 00:48:44,160
Speaker 1: I've never heard.

1010
00:48:44,239 --> 00:48:47,240
Speaker 2: In this episode of American Justice, they have her speaking

1011
00:48:47,280 --> 00:48:49,800
Speaker 2: and she's not in Yeah, as far as I remember,

1012
00:48:49,840 --> 00:48:50,760
Speaker 2: she's not in the staircase.

1013
00:48:50,800 --> 00:48:57,840
Speaker 1: She's not because she was his two biological sons, his

1014
00:48:58,040 --> 00:49:05,520
Speaker 1: two adopted daughters and Caitlin, who was Kathleen's daughter. We're

1015
00:49:05,520 --> 00:49:09,040
Speaker 1: all on his side. And then Caitlin saw the autopsy

1016
00:49:09,120 --> 00:49:13,000
Speaker 1: report and changed her mind. Then she ended up suing him,

1017
00:49:13,080 --> 00:49:18,239
Speaker 1: took him winning and winning for her uncle death. Okay, sorry,

1018
00:49:18,719 --> 00:49:21,920
Speaker 1: because he did it. It's like he did it just

1019
00:49:22,000 --> 00:49:27,880
Speaker 1: from the get go. But okay, let's talk about the

1020
00:49:28,160 --> 00:49:30,480
Speaker 1: fucking problems that pop up. And they pop up. It's

1021
00:49:30,520 --> 00:49:33,360
Speaker 1: so interesting on staircase because they pop up during the recording.

1022
00:49:33,400 --> 00:49:35,719
Speaker 1: Do you want to get into those? Sure, the gay

1023
00:49:35,800 --> 00:49:38,960
Speaker 1: porn thing. I love that guy. He's my favorite part

1024
00:49:39,000 --> 00:49:41,120
Speaker 1: of the staircase. Oh my god? What did he What

1025
00:49:41,320 --> 00:49:44,600
Speaker 1: was his argument on the stand? What did he say? Verbatim?

1026
00:49:45,560 --> 00:49:49,920
Speaker 1: I knew Dittaly Oh, I mean, he had a lot

1027
00:49:49,960 --> 00:49:52,040
Speaker 1: of good quotes. Let's get into Okay, So what I

1028
00:49:52,120 --> 00:49:56,000
Speaker 1: wrote about was that, like there were there were two motives,

1029
00:49:57,040 --> 00:50:00,799
Speaker 1: and one was that Kathleen had a one point five

1030
00:50:00,840 --> 00:50:05,240
Speaker 1: million dollar life insurance policy. Why uh huh, Well, because

1031
00:50:05,320 --> 00:50:08,920
Speaker 1: she's so high, she was very fucking wealthy, had a

1032
00:50:09,000 --> 00:50:12,800
Speaker 1: good job, but so around two million with all of

1033
00:50:12,840 --> 00:50:16,880
Speaker 1: her assets and with the time of her death, and

1034
00:50:17,040 --> 00:50:21,400
Speaker 1: that the Peterson's were at the time were facing financial issues.

1035
00:50:21,440 --> 00:50:23,400
Speaker 1: They had one hundred and forty three thousand dollars in

1036
00:50:23,520 --> 00:50:27,920
Speaker 1: debt at the time of Kathleen's death. Kathleen's company was

1037
00:50:28,080 --> 00:50:30,759
Speaker 1: undergoing major layoffs. Kathleen was in danger of losing her

1038
00:50:30,840 --> 00:50:33,080
Speaker 1: one hundred and forty five thousand dollars a year job

1039
00:50:33,160 --> 00:50:35,880
Speaker 1: and her benefits, and she had deferred a lot of

1040
00:50:35,920 --> 00:50:37,520
Speaker 1: her salary, so they didn't have a lot of cash,

1041
00:50:37,520 --> 00:50:39,680
Speaker 1: which is why they were in so much debt. And

1042
00:50:39,800 --> 00:50:43,840
Speaker 1: Michael hadn't had income for a lot of years, so

1043
00:50:45,280 --> 00:50:49,279
Speaker 1: so and also I think secretly the sons weren't a

1044
00:50:49,320 --> 00:50:51,640
Speaker 1: lot of debt as well, because there was an email

1045
00:50:51,719 --> 00:50:55,279
Speaker 1: to Michael Peterson's ex wife talking about how they were

1046
00:50:55,320 --> 00:50:59,840
Speaker 1: going to deal with their son's debt. And in the

1047
00:51:00,080 --> 00:51:03,240
Speaker 1: email it's said, Michael says, I cannot speak to Kathleen

1048
00:51:03,280 --> 00:51:06,640
Speaker 1: about this. Oh, because it's because the money was such

1049
00:51:06,640 --> 00:51:09,520
Speaker 1: a huge issue. Because who knows why. Yeah, because money

1050
00:51:09,600 --> 00:51:11,400
Speaker 1: was an issue because she was sick of you know,

1051
00:51:11,800 --> 00:51:14,200
Speaker 1: this is speculation, because she was sick of helping them

1052
00:51:14,480 --> 00:51:18,600
Speaker 1: because you know, they weren't her biological sons for whatever reason.

1053
00:51:19,080 --> 00:51:20,879
Speaker 1: You know, they'd gotten in illegal trouble in the past.

1054
00:51:20,920 --> 00:51:24,840
Speaker 1: Which is true. So so there was some secret of

1055
00:51:24,840 --> 00:51:29,680
Speaker 1: stuff going on about money. So there's money, which I

1056
00:51:29,719 --> 00:51:32,560
Speaker 1: don't think is I think this is a crime of passion.

1057
00:51:32,920 --> 00:51:35,080
Speaker 1: I don't think the money. No, I don't think. I

1058
00:51:35,080 --> 00:51:37,040
Speaker 1: don't think the money, and I don't think the gay porn,

1059
00:51:37,280 --> 00:51:38,840
Speaker 1: which you don't know.

1060
00:51:39,080 --> 00:51:41,560
Speaker 2: In the American justice they're like, Kathleen was on his

1061
00:51:41,680 --> 00:51:45,160
Speaker 2: hour on his computer two hours before her death, and

1062
00:51:45,360 --> 00:51:47,840
Speaker 2: they the theory is that she stumbled upon.

1063
00:51:47,960 --> 00:51:49,400
Speaker 1: I don't think it's a gay porn. I think it's

1064
00:51:49,440 --> 00:51:52,279
Speaker 1: fact that he was trying to hire a sex a

1065
00:51:52,560 --> 00:51:57,120
Speaker 1: gay sex worker to have sex with and she stumbled

1066
00:51:57,200 --> 00:52:00,520
Speaker 1: upon that information. Don't think it's that.

1067
00:52:01,000 --> 00:52:03,200
Speaker 3: No, Well, what do you think the motive is?

1068
00:52:03,760 --> 00:52:06,319
Speaker 2: I don't know, but I mean you could her going

1069
00:52:06,360 --> 00:52:08,680
Speaker 2: on his computer doesn't mean she found anything.

1070
00:52:08,960 --> 00:52:13,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, but okay, except that she never went on that computer.

1071
00:52:14,440 --> 00:52:16,759
Speaker 1: The only reason she was doing is because the next

1072
00:52:16,840 --> 00:52:21,399
Speaker 1: morning she had a conference call and so she didn't

1073
00:52:21,400 --> 00:52:23,520
Speaker 1: have her home her work laptop at home with her.

1074
00:52:24,080 --> 00:52:26,719
Speaker 1: So one of her colleagues sent her some information that

1075
00:52:26,800 --> 00:52:28,279
Speaker 1: she needed to get off the home computer, so she

1076
00:52:28,400 --> 00:52:31,080
Speaker 1: checked it before midnight, which she never did. She had

1077
00:52:31,120 --> 00:52:33,799
Speaker 1: to ask Michael Peterson for the password to get into

1078
00:52:33,880 --> 00:52:37,640
Speaker 1: the their joint email account, so she was never on

1079
00:52:37,719 --> 00:52:40,759
Speaker 1: that computer, and he had printouts of a conversation he

1080
00:52:41,000 --> 00:52:44,359
Speaker 1: had with a mail escort about the kind of sex

1081
00:52:44,400 --> 00:52:46,880
Speaker 1: that they were going to have and like when he

1082
00:52:46,960 --> 00:52:49,520
Speaker 1: could come over. I read all those the emails between

1083
00:52:49,520 --> 00:52:53,719
Speaker 1: the two of them. It's fucking intense. Well, but is

1084
00:52:53,760 --> 00:52:57,239
Speaker 1: there truth that she read that? Well, I mean no,

1085
00:52:57,480 --> 00:53:00,800
Speaker 1: But if she opened the drawer drawer to get a

1086
00:53:00,880 --> 00:53:04,040
Speaker 1: pen or whatever and found this, or you know, clicked

1087
00:53:04,080 --> 00:53:08,160
Speaker 1: on one email in their email chain and saw it,

1088
00:53:08,920 --> 00:53:11,759
Speaker 1: I mean, it's so easy when she's on that PC

1089
00:53:12,040 --> 00:53:16,759
Speaker 1: to find any evidence of this, gave this, you know,

1090
00:53:16,920 --> 00:53:22,120
Speaker 1: his bisexuality, his hiring escorts, his affairs with men that

1091
00:53:22,239 --> 00:53:25,759
Speaker 1: he had had in their relationship. It's so easy if

1092
00:53:25,840 --> 00:53:29,120
Speaker 1: she had not stumbled upon that and then died that night.

1093
00:53:29,160 --> 00:53:31,480
Speaker 1: I mean, it's just there's there's too much of a

1094
00:53:31,560 --> 00:53:32,960
Speaker 1: link between those two things to me.

1095
00:53:33,719 --> 00:53:35,840
Speaker 2: Well, I just think if he'd been doing that secretly

1096
00:53:35,960 --> 00:53:38,840
Speaker 2: for a long time, he wouldn't have them printed up

1097
00:53:38,840 --> 00:53:40,080
Speaker 2: and sitting in a drawer like.

1098
00:53:40,120 --> 00:53:42,520
Speaker 1: He's probably gotten away with it for so long that

1099
00:53:42,640 --> 00:53:44,799
Speaker 1: he was he thought, well, it's not that. I mean,

1100
00:53:44,880 --> 00:53:47,200
Speaker 1: it's like what they were together for eight years, or

1101
00:53:47,719 --> 00:53:50,200
Speaker 1: like they break out ten years before they got married.

1102
00:53:51,360 --> 00:53:55,680
Speaker 2: Well, so I guess my point is this, I don't

1103
00:53:55,760 --> 00:53:57,640
Speaker 2: I don't buy the idea that all of a sudden

1104
00:53:58,160 --> 00:54:01,359
Speaker 2: she's clicking things and it's like that's it. And also

1105
00:54:01,440 --> 00:54:06,000
Speaker 2: because he that's her being enraged at him. I think

1106
00:54:06,120 --> 00:54:08,759
Speaker 2: something happened where he like she was like, She's like,

1107
00:54:08,920 --> 00:54:11,000
Speaker 2: I'm gonna what the fuck is this? I'm going to

1108
00:54:11,040 --> 00:54:14,120
Speaker 2: expose you get the fuck out of my house. You're

1109
00:54:14,239 --> 00:54:16,359
Speaker 2: not He has no money, he hasn't had a job

1110
00:54:16,400 --> 00:54:19,640
Speaker 2: in three years. She's like, but that's like, so you're

1111
00:54:19,640 --> 00:54:22,279
Speaker 2: saying that the marriage was like eroding anyway, and then

1112
00:54:22,360 --> 00:54:24,440
Speaker 2: this was her the like left final straw. No.

1113
00:54:24,760 --> 00:54:29,760
Speaker 1: I think her finding emails that he is literally planning

1114
00:54:30,680 --> 00:54:34,560
Speaker 1: for that week a meetup with a gay escort. The

1115
00:54:34,600 --> 00:54:37,680
Speaker 1: emails are in a conversation of not someone who is

1116
00:54:37,800 --> 00:54:41,880
Speaker 1: new at this right. So she finds those emails and

1117
00:54:42,680 --> 00:54:45,520
Speaker 1: realizes and comes downstairs and confronts him, what the fuck

1118
00:54:45,640 --> 00:54:48,040
Speaker 1: is this? This is like, this is not who I married.

1119
00:54:49,200 --> 00:54:52,280
Speaker 1: I'm losing my fucking mind. You know, has the emails

1120
00:54:52,360 --> 00:54:55,240
Speaker 1: in her hand goes to walk upstairs. He fucking panics.

1121
00:54:55,840 --> 00:54:57,400
Speaker 1: His whole life is about to be expressed.

1122
00:54:57,400 --> 00:55:00,000
Speaker 2: Sorry, So do we know for a fact those emails

1123
00:55:00,080 --> 00:55:04,120
Speaker 2: were printed up Yeah, that's that's that's evidence that they had,

1124
00:55:04,400 --> 00:55:06,960
Speaker 2: not that they the lawyers printed them, but Michael Peterson

1125
00:55:07,000 --> 00:55:07,960
Speaker 2: printed the email.

1126
00:55:07,719 --> 00:55:10,239
Speaker 1: According to forensic files. Yes, they were printed in his

1127
00:55:10,600 --> 00:55:12,080
Speaker 1: in the drawer in his office.

1128
00:55:12,200 --> 00:55:15,480
Speaker 2: Okay, well, just I guess my point is that's all

1129
00:55:15,800 --> 00:55:18,760
Speaker 2: very That just seems like if he had a secret

1130
00:55:18,800 --> 00:55:23,399
Speaker 2: gay life, that would be something. I just didn't see

1131
00:55:23,560 --> 00:55:26,239
Speaker 2: that relationship and the and the way I guess it

1132
00:55:26,320 --> 00:55:29,480
Speaker 2: was presented. I was thinking more of she did something,

1133
00:55:29,600 --> 00:55:33,319
Speaker 2: said something to him that was more of like her

1134
00:55:33,400 --> 00:55:34,120
Speaker 2: attacking him.

1135
00:55:34,440 --> 00:55:35,160
Speaker 1: Why wouldn't it be.

1136
00:55:37,040 --> 00:55:39,439
Speaker 2: I'm telling I'm just telling you that it seems really

1137
00:55:39,880 --> 00:55:44,280
Speaker 2: it's convenient because it's the one night she uses the computer,

1138
00:55:44,440 --> 00:55:46,600
Speaker 2: the one time, and then she finds everything like he's

1139
00:55:46,640 --> 00:55:47,440
Speaker 2: not hiding it at all.

1140
00:55:47,560 --> 00:55:52,239
Speaker 1: A and then B the lawyers use that in the courtroom.

1141
00:55:53,200 --> 00:55:55,600
Speaker 2: As this huge thing of like, oh my god, he's

1142
00:55:55,640 --> 00:55:58,120
Speaker 2: not who anybody. And it was to me that was

1143
00:55:58,200 --> 00:56:00,520
Speaker 2: one of those moments in the document that was so

1144
00:56:00,640 --> 00:56:03,360
Speaker 2: amazing because then you watched all of those people in

1145
00:56:03,480 --> 00:56:06,440
Speaker 2: Durham be like this is disgusting, this is horrifying, Oh

1146
00:56:06,480 --> 00:56:08,960
Speaker 2: my god, this is insane where it's like, actually, there's

1147
00:56:09,040 --> 00:56:10,399
Speaker 2: tons of people that do it all the time.

1148
00:56:10,600 --> 00:56:12,320
Speaker 1: But I think, which is why I loved.

1149
00:56:12,120 --> 00:56:14,360
Speaker 2: That fucking sex worker, because he got up there and

1150
00:56:14,520 --> 00:56:16,600
Speaker 2: just like, yeah, this is what it happens a lot.

1151
00:56:16,800 --> 00:56:18,560
Speaker 1: It's not a big deal. What I don't think. I

1152
00:56:18,640 --> 00:56:20,920
Speaker 1: don't think that the people in Durham and in the

1153
00:56:21,120 --> 00:56:23,680
Speaker 1: in the documentary, Michael Peterson's talks a lot of shit

1154
00:56:23,680 --> 00:56:26,120
Speaker 1: about closed mindedness here in North Carolina, blah blah blah.

1155
00:56:26,120 --> 00:56:28,080
Speaker 1: But I don't think they were upset with him being

1156
00:56:28,640 --> 00:56:31,799
Speaker 1: bisexual or having homosexual relationships. I think that they were

1157
00:56:31,880 --> 00:56:35,280
Speaker 1: pointing out what a liar Michael Peterson was, and Michael

1158
00:56:35,280 --> 00:56:39,239
Speaker 1: Peterson was saying that Kathleen knew about his infidelities with men,

1159
00:56:39,520 --> 00:56:42,280
Speaker 1: was open to him being bisexual and experiencing that outside

1160
00:56:42,320 --> 00:56:45,200
Speaker 1: of his relationship with her. But I think the argument

1161
00:56:45,360 --> 00:56:48,360
Speaker 1: was he's he's a known liar, he's light about he

1162
00:56:48,440 --> 00:56:51,200
Speaker 1: lied about getting the purple heart in Vietnam. He lied

1163
00:56:51,200 --> 00:56:53,320
Speaker 1: that his injury, he had gotten some injuries in a

1164
00:56:53,400 --> 00:56:55,600
Speaker 1: car accident in Japan years before, and said that he

1165
00:56:55,640 --> 00:56:58,239
Speaker 1: had gotten them in Vietnam. His ex wife and he

1166
00:56:59,000 --> 00:57:01,640
Speaker 1: divorced because he was having affairs with men and women.

1167
00:57:02,000 --> 00:57:03,960
Speaker 1: So they were showing him as a known liar and

1168
00:57:04,680 --> 00:57:08,160
Speaker 1: saying that she knew about the gay relationships takes away

1169
00:57:08,400 --> 00:57:10,719
Speaker 1: the motive that he would have killed her because she

1170
00:57:10,800 --> 00:57:12,360
Speaker 1: found out about it that night and he flipped the

1171
00:57:12,400 --> 00:57:12,799
Speaker 1: fuck out.

1172
00:57:13,080 --> 00:57:15,680
Speaker 2: Well, I mean, look, it's not like I'm saying that

1173
00:57:15,880 --> 00:57:19,120
Speaker 2: isn't true or I'm not arguing that. I'm just saying

1174
00:57:19,240 --> 00:57:22,200
Speaker 2: to me, that seems like it pulls through the thing

1175
00:57:22,360 --> 00:57:25,919
Speaker 2: because in the documentary they do in the courtroom, people

1176
00:57:26,040 --> 00:57:28,720
Speaker 2: act like, holy fuck, it's on camera. It's like one

1177
00:57:28,760 --> 00:57:30,240
Speaker 2: of the biggest parts of that documentary.

1178
00:57:30,320 --> 00:57:30,560
Speaker 3: I mean.

1179
00:57:30,600 --> 00:57:33,040
Speaker 2: And so no, that's just my point of People in

1180
00:57:33,160 --> 00:57:35,600
Speaker 2: Durham were freaked out about it. People in Durham were

1181
00:57:35,760 --> 00:57:38,880
Speaker 2: it did become the way that that woman free to Brown,

1182
00:57:39,040 --> 00:57:43,959
Speaker 2: the prosecutor starts talking about him and this, and she's

1183
00:57:44,160 --> 00:57:46,520
Speaker 2: so evil about it. It's like she's like the wicked

1184
00:57:46,560 --> 00:57:49,080
Speaker 2: witch of the West. So that to me, I felt

1185
00:57:49,120 --> 00:57:53,240
Speaker 2: like that was a card that they played to cast

1186
00:57:53,320 --> 00:57:55,800
Speaker 2: him in this light. In the courtroom to make him

1187
00:57:55,800 --> 00:57:58,320
Speaker 2: look bad, and then when you watch the documentary, are like, well,

1188
00:57:58,400 --> 00:58:01,080
Speaker 2: those people are bad and that makes him good, and

1189
00:58:01,200 --> 00:58:03,400
Speaker 2: so you start playing against you know what I mean,

1190
00:58:03,480 --> 00:58:05,160
Speaker 2: It's like, yeah, they're bad and he's good.

1191
00:58:05,320 --> 00:58:09,000
Speaker 1: But maybe but I think maybe the card was he's

1192
00:58:09,920 --> 00:58:13,280
Speaker 1: I think they were surprised to hear that a married, straight,

1193
00:58:13,400 --> 00:58:19,160
Speaker 1: married man was having these illicit relationships with men. I

1194
00:58:19,240 --> 00:58:21,640
Speaker 1: don't think it was that he's having relationships with men.

1195
00:58:21,720 --> 00:58:24,600
Speaker 1: This man's having relationship with men. I think it was definitely.

1196
00:58:24,880 --> 00:58:27,680
Speaker 1: I mean, I'm not so fucking stupid that I think that,

1197
00:58:28,240 --> 00:58:31,400
Speaker 1: you know, people don't get surprised when they find out

1198
00:58:31,440 --> 00:58:35,040
Speaker 1: someone's gay, obviously, But I think part of it was

1199
00:58:35,800 --> 00:58:38,960
Speaker 1: did I mean, it's such a it's such a great

1200
00:58:39,120 --> 00:58:42,120
Speaker 1: narrative of she found out this thing about him that

1201
00:58:42,280 --> 00:58:45,080
Speaker 1: he you know, even if she knew he looked at

1202
00:58:45,080 --> 00:58:49,200
Speaker 1: gay porn, found out that he is, uh, he's planning

1203
00:58:49,280 --> 00:58:53,000
Speaker 1: on meeting up with and paying for sex from a

1204
00:58:53,840 --> 00:58:57,320
Speaker 1: gay escort. She found out that night. That's the night

1205
00:58:57,400 --> 00:58:59,000
Speaker 1: she died. Like the fact that she was on the

1206
00:58:59,000 --> 00:59:01,160
Speaker 1: computer that night, even though she's never on the computer,

1207
00:59:01,440 --> 00:59:01,960
Speaker 1: and that's.

1208
00:59:01,840 --> 00:59:04,680
Speaker 2: The show lipped but We don't know for a fact,

1209
00:59:04,680 --> 00:59:06,440
Speaker 2: that's the night she found out. We just know that

1210
00:59:06,560 --> 00:59:09,040
Speaker 2: he had printed up emails and that he erased that

1211
00:59:09,520 --> 00:59:11,480
Speaker 2: like that. The cops found out he was erasing stuff

1212
00:59:11,480 --> 00:59:13,640
Speaker 2: off his computer, and then they went in and were like,

1213
00:59:13,800 --> 00:59:16,680
Speaker 2: your computer's filled with gay porn and you were having

1214
00:59:16,720 --> 00:59:17,200
Speaker 2: these affairs.

1215
00:59:17,280 --> 00:59:19,480
Speaker 1: But she went on. But she went on the computer

1216
00:59:19,600 --> 00:59:21,880
Speaker 1: for the first time in a long time that night

1217
00:59:22,080 --> 00:59:26,160
Speaker 1: that she died. Yes, I get that that's a crazy coincidence.

1218
00:59:27,280 --> 00:59:29,280
Speaker 1: It's not though, I mean, I just don't think it's

1219
00:59:29,320 --> 00:59:32,120
Speaker 1: not a crazy coincidence. It's not a coincidence. It's like,

1220
00:59:32,360 --> 00:59:35,560
Speaker 1: that's the motive that she found out, that he was

1221
00:59:35,600 --> 00:59:38,000
Speaker 1: paying for sex from a gay guy. But I get it.

1222
00:59:38,160 --> 00:59:39,920
Speaker 2: My thing is, I think it's too much of a

1223
00:59:40,000 --> 00:59:42,440
Speaker 2: coincidence to say all of those things happened because she

1224
00:59:43,040 --> 00:59:44,800
Speaker 2: was like, oh, I got to check my email here.

1225
00:59:46,640 --> 00:59:49,200
Speaker 1: I in my mind, that's that's a thing that.

1226
00:59:49,240 --> 00:59:52,880
Speaker 2: Got pulled through so that it would be like, you know, salacious,

1227
00:59:52,920 --> 00:59:56,200
Speaker 2: so it would be against him. And then you know,

1228
00:59:56,360 --> 00:59:59,080
Speaker 2: and then when the documentary comes and everyone in like

1229
00:59:59,320 --> 01:00:03,280
Speaker 2: twenty fifteen or whenever it was, looks at that, they're like, well, fuck,

1230
01:00:03,320 --> 01:00:07,720
Speaker 2: those southern bigots. Yeah, and then and that makes him

1231
01:00:07,760 --> 01:00:11,720
Speaker 2: look good somehow. But I guess my point was, I

1232
01:00:11,840 --> 01:00:16,760
Speaker 2: think something else happened. Uh that would like when he

1233
01:00:17,040 --> 01:00:21,600
Speaker 2: talks and he is so remote and calm, and oh,

1234
01:00:21,720 --> 01:00:24,840
Speaker 2: he's just so affable and so intelligent, and so I

1235
01:00:25,040 --> 01:00:27,720
Speaker 2: see that thing where it's like, but the one thing

1236
01:00:27,760 --> 01:00:29,400
Speaker 2: that would turn him, and I don't I'm not saying

1237
01:00:29,400 --> 01:00:32,160
Speaker 2: I know what it is. I'm just saying it's a

1238
01:00:32,240 --> 01:00:35,360
Speaker 2: thing that makes him snap, go into a rage and

1239
01:00:35,600 --> 01:00:40,360
Speaker 2: then beat her till the whole fucking stairwell is bloody.

1240
01:00:40,760 --> 01:00:43,440
Speaker 2: So like, it's not it's not like hey, you and

1241
01:00:43,520 --> 01:00:45,080
Speaker 2: you you did this and you did that, or her

1242
01:00:45,200 --> 01:00:46,160
Speaker 2: like being shrillen up.

1243
01:00:46,160 --> 01:00:49,240
Speaker 7: And he's never been abusive before, you know he has been,

1244
01:00:49,480 --> 01:00:52,040
Speaker 7: oh he has he yes, But the well then we

1245
01:00:52,160 --> 01:00:55,280
Speaker 7: get into right, then we get into the family friend

1246
01:00:55,960 --> 01:00:56,800
Speaker 7: the woman in Germany.

1247
01:00:57,760 --> 01:01:02,720
Speaker 1: Okay, yes, So then other weird bombshell that came out

1248
01:01:02,840 --> 01:01:05,880
Speaker 1: during the it was during the staircase being filmed.

1249
01:01:07,240 --> 01:01:09,520
Speaker 2: Well, it's during the case, but I mean it's because

1250
01:01:09,640 --> 01:01:14,920
Speaker 2: her Kathleen's uh is it Kathleen's sister or his first

1251
01:01:15,000 --> 01:01:19,120
Speaker 2: wife's sister calls and says, you do realize, right, Oh no, sorry.

1252
01:01:18,960 --> 01:01:21,320
Speaker 1: It's the girl's mother's sister.

1253
01:01:21,440 --> 01:01:25,120
Speaker 2: So it's the girl's aunts that Michael Peterson is there

1254
01:01:25,680 --> 01:01:29,400
Speaker 2: at his wards, and the aunt calls and says, you

1255
01:01:29,520 --> 01:01:33,880
Speaker 2: do realize their mother was like died at the bottom

1256
01:01:33,920 --> 01:01:36,080
Speaker 2: of a staircase after he walked them home.

1257
01:01:36,280 --> 01:01:38,160
Speaker 1: He was her last person a c herli.

1258
01:01:38,360 --> 01:01:41,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, he walked the mother and girls home after they

1259
01:01:41,920 --> 01:01:46,320
Speaker 2: ate dinner at Peterson's house, and then a neighbor saw

1260
01:01:46,400 --> 01:01:48,680
Speaker 2: him running out of the house later on, and she

1261
01:01:48,840 --> 01:01:51,160
Speaker 2: was found at the bottom of the stairs with seven

1262
01:01:51,400 --> 01:01:54,439
Speaker 2: lacerations on her head in the back of her head,

1263
01:01:54,760 --> 01:01:58,120
Speaker 2: exactly the same fucking death twenty years before.

1264
01:01:58,960 --> 01:02:07,120
Speaker 8: That's insanity it here, let's see, okay, So yeah, so

1265
01:02:08,400 --> 01:02:11,360
Speaker 8: so two decades before Michael Peterson found Kathleen at the

1266
01:02:11,360 --> 01:02:14,120
Speaker 8: bottom of her stairs, he had been friends with another

1267
01:02:14,160 --> 01:02:14,760
Speaker 8: woman named.

1268
01:02:14,640 --> 01:02:18,760
Speaker 1: Elizabeth Ratliffe, and they had all lived in Germany. Michael

1269
01:02:18,800 --> 01:02:20,480
Speaker 1: Peterson was married to his first wife at the time,

1270
01:02:20,600 --> 01:02:24,600
Speaker 1: had his two sons. Elizabeth apparently died after a fall

1271
01:02:24,720 --> 01:02:27,080
Speaker 1: down a staircase, and Michael had been the last persons.

1272
01:02:27,120 --> 01:02:30,160
Speaker 1: You're alive, they ruled authorities ruled rat lift steps to

1273
01:02:30,240 --> 01:02:34,240
Speaker 1: be of natural causes, concluding that a cerebral hemorrhage caused

1274
01:02:34,240 --> 01:02:37,400
Speaker 1: her to fall and strike her head, which makes absolutely

1275
01:02:37,440 --> 01:02:37,800
Speaker 1: no sense.

1276
01:02:37,920 --> 01:02:41,320
Speaker 2: Right, So they're saying something basically, she was at the

1277
01:02:41,320 --> 01:02:43,000
Speaker 2: top of the stairs, went oh my god, my head

1278
01:02:43,080 --> 01:02:46,160
Speaker 2: and fell down the stairs, got seven lacerations.

1279
01:02:46,880 --> 01:02:49,760
Speaker 1: And it's almost the same thing that one time you

1280
01:02:49,840 --> 01:02:54,040
Speaker 1: want you get what happened, you get why they concluded that,

1281
01:02:54,720 --> 01:02:56,800
Speaker 1: you know what I mean, it's almost sure, like, yeah, okay,

1282
01:02:57,200 --> 01:02:58,960
Speaker 1: that could have happened, fell.

1283
01:02:58,800 --> 01:03:01,280
Speaker 2: Down the stairs, right, not looking at she had had

1284
01:03:01,360 --> 01:03:06,120
Speaker 2: headaches before, like supposedly it had headaches before weeks before

1285
01:03:06,160 --> 01:03:06,720
Speaker 2: that happened.

1286
01:03:07,680 --> 01:03:12,880
Speaker 1: So she also looks so fucking identical. Elizabeth Bradcliffe and

1287
01:03:13,040 --> 01:03:16,080
Speaker 1: Kathleen look like they could be fucking sisters. There's the

1288
01:03:16,200 --> 01:03:17,000
Speaker 1: most insane way.

1289
01:03:17,200 --> 01:03:19,880
Speaker 2: Yes, there's a part where there's side by sides of

1290
01:03:20,360 --> 01:03:25,080
Speaker 2: Elizabeth in the like seventies probably and Kathleen, and you

1291
01:03:25,240 --> 01:03:27,360
Speaker 2: could completely go, oh, that's her in the seventies and

1292
01:03:27,400 --> 01:03:30,400
Speaker 2: that's her now. Yeah, they look so similar totally.

1293
01:03:30,600 --> 01:03:32,960
Speaker 1: It's insane. And it's this thing of like, you know,

1294
01:03:33,280 --> 01:03:36,120
Speaker 1: did he kill the first woman, did he kill Elizabeth,

1295
01:03:36,400 --> 01:03:39,680
Speaker 1: or did Elizabeth just die that way. And so when

1296
01:03:39,840 --> 01:03:44,640
Speaker 1: he killed Kathleen twenty years later, he set up her

1297
01:03:44,640 --> 01:03:47,200
Speaker 1: body to look the way Elizabeth, you know, like maybe

1298
01:03:47,240 --> 01:03:52,520
Speaker 1: he didn't kill Elizabeth the first one, maybe she actually

1299
01:03:52,600 --> 01:03:56,000
Speaker 1: died that way, and he in this moment of like, well,

1300
01:03:56,040 --> 01:03:57,360
Speaker 1: I need to set the body to look like it

1301
01:03:57,440 --> 01:04:01,680
Speaker 1: was an accident, kind of recreated the same scene. But

1302
01:04:01,800 --> 01:04:05,840
Speaker 1: that would mean he was at the scene right right,

1303
01:04:05,960 --> 01:04:09,080
Speaker 1: because he prob no, he found her body, he came,

1304
01:04:09,360 --> 01:04:12,880
Speaker 1: He came. When the nanny found Elizabeth Ratcliff's body, she

1305
01:04:13,040 --> 01:04:16,440
Speaker 1: went and got Michael Peterson. Oh so he saw it. Yeah, okay,

1306
01:04:16,520 --> 01:04:18,360
Speaker 1: but I also don't believe that. I think he can now.

1307
01:04:18,680 --> 01:04:21,040
Speaker 2: Well, also because it doesn't explain the seven lacerations. It

1308
01:04:21,080 --> 01:04:25,280
Speaker 2: doesn't explain it's like in the what was that fucking

1309
01:04:25,720 --> 01:04:32,080
Speaker 2: uh uh Jessica Beale Show, Oh yeah, the Sinner, remember

1310
01:04:32,120 --> 01:04:34,440
Speaker 2: when she stabs them the exact same way.

1311
01:04:34,560 --> 01:04:36,720
Speaker 1: Yeah, It's that's what it reminds me of.

1312
01:04:36,800 --> 01:04:39,680
Speaker 2: Where it's like seven seven head lacerations, where it's like

1313
01:04:40,200 --> 01:04:42,760
Speaker 2: if it's a blowpoke or if it's whatever the thing is,

1314
01:04:43,280 --> 01:04:46,520
Speaker 2: it's like someone goes fuck you, walks away from him,

1315
01:04:46,720 --> 01:04:49,280
Speaker 2: goes upstairs, or however, it happens.

1316
01:04:49,240 --> 01:04:50,880
Speaker 1: And he just walks up and goes no, no, no,

1317
01:04:50,960 --> 01:04:53,840
Speaker 1: no no, and that's his muscle memory. That's what he

1318
01:04:54,080 --> 01:04:55,640
Speaker 1: does to stop someone.

1319
01:04:55,880 --> 01:04:59,920
Speaker 2: And it's rageholic explosion where it's like this crazy attack

1320
01:05:00,120 --> 01:05:02,320
Speaker 2: and it happens the same way, and then I mean,

1321
01:05:02,400 --> 01:05:05,440
Speaker 2: who knows, this is all obviously bullshit theory, but but

1322
01:05:05,560 --> 01:05:08,840
Speaker 2: we're right. But but to me, he does really seem

1323
01:05:08,920 --> 01:05:10,960
Speaker 2: like one of those people that's like he's going to

1324
01:05:11,080 --> 01:05:13,840
Speaker 2: keep it so chill no matter what, because he does

1325
01:05:13,920 --> 01:05:14,600
Speaker 2: it all the way.

1326
01:05:14,480 --> 01:05:15,840
Speaker 1: Through the It's so cral.

1327
01:05:15,960 --> 01:05:18,280
Speaker 2: Every teen a camera in the staircase is like one

1328
01:05:18,320 --> 01:05:19,800
Speaker 2: of the most infuriating things to me.

1329
01:05:19,920 --> 01:05:21,320
Speaker 1: This is why part of the reason why I didn't

1330
01:05:21,320 --> 01:05:23,400
Speaker 1: I couldn't watch more than five episodes is I was

1331
01:05:23,440 --> 01:05:24,840
Speaker 1: just like, I do not want to see this man

1332
01:05:25,320 --> 01:05:27,720
Speaker 1: again and hear him speak like it was one of

1333
01:05:27,720 --> 01:05:29,760
Speaker 1: those things where Vince had to be like, Okay, Georgia,

1334
01:05:30,120 --> 01:05:32,280
Speaker 1: we need to go to bed, because I was screaming

1335
01:05:32,400 --> 01:05:34,720
Speaker 1: at him about not screaming. But I was like, oh,

1336
01:05:34,960 --> 01:05:36,920
Speaker 1: you know, just yelling at him because he's such a

1337
01:05:37,040 --> 01:05:40,040
Speaker 1: fucking narcissistic and he does.

1338
01:05:40,560 --> 01:05:42,680
Speaker 2: He's a little bit of a like mister Magoo, where

1339
01:05:42,680 --> 01:05:46,000
Speaker 2: he's like, oh, really right, he's making jokes.

1340
01:05:46,080 --> 01:05:46,800
Speaker 1: He's like his.

1341
01:05:46,880 --> 01:05:48,800
Speaker 2: Brother's there and they're all just kind of oh whoa

1342
01:05:49,560 --> 01:05:52,880
Speaker 2: very interesting and there's no shame. There's doesn't seem to

1343
01:05:52,920 --> 01:05:56,320
Speaker 2: be any real affect, so he's not like you don't

1344
01:05:56,440 --> 01:05:59,520
Speaker 2: see him. The only time he ever seems like worried

1345
01:05:59,640 --> 01:06:03,040
Speaker 2: or of real human reactions is when they're talking about

1346
01:06:03,080 --> 01:06:04,120
Speaker 2: how much jail time is.

1347
01:06:04,240 --> 01:06:07,800
Speaker 1: Right. Other than that, it's like, oh, Kathleen, she does

1348
01:06:07,840 --> 01:06:11,800
Speaker 1: really something. It also doesn't he answers things in a

1349
01:06:11,920 --> 01:06:16,200
Speaker 1: way incorrectly, like so I printed out this thing from

1350
01:06:16,240 --> 01:06:21,840
Speaker 1: the Malchi crime notes, where so okay, so at the

1351
01:06:21,960 --> 01:06:23,960
Speaker 1: at the end of that, I whisper her name bullshit.

1352
01:06:24,320 --> 01:06:27,120
Speaker 1: When he says I would never have done anything to

1353
01:06:27,240 --> 01:06:30,640
Speaker 1: hurt her, he the way he says that it's an

1354
01:06:30,760 --> 01:06:34,320
Speaker 1: unreal so she's this chick Ursula. Franco says it's an

1355
01:06:34,440 --> 01:06:38,040
Speaker 1: unreliable denial, saying I would have never done anything to

1356
01:06:38,280 --> 01:06:41,800
Speaker 1: hurt her, And then you can add in unless blah

1357
01:06:41,800 --> 01:06:44,520
Speaker 1: blah blah, unless she sat on the stairs, I've done

1358
01:06:44,560 --> 01:06:46,880
Speaker 1: something wrong. I would have never done anything to hurt her.

1359
01:06:47,000 --> 01:06:49,880
Speaker 1: To be in with right, and then he also says

1360
01:06:49,960 --> 01:06:53,800
Speaker 1: hurt instead of kill to minimize and distance himself from

1361
01:06:53,840 --> 01:06:56,960
Speaker 1: what happened, to deal with the negative emotions, and she

1362
01:06:57,000 --> 01:06:59,120
Speaker 1: says it's a common strategy used by guilty people to

1363
01:06:59,160 --> 01:07:01,480
Speaker 1: deal with feelings of good guilt. And then he says,

1364
01:07:02,200 --> 01:07:05,320
Speaker 1: I am innocent of these charges. That doesn't mean he

1365
01:07:05,360 --> 01:07:07,880
Speaker 1: didn't kill her. He's innocent of the charges he's being

1366
01:07:08,000 --> 01:07:13,600
Speaker 1: brought up on, right, right, So it's another not reliable denial.

1367
01:07:14,000 --> 01:07:16,960
Speaker 1: To affirm to be innocent is different from saying I

1368
01:07:17,080 --> 01:07:20,720
Speaker 1: didn't kill, which is expected. When people say they're innocent,

1369
01:07:20,800 --> 01:07:23,880
Speaker 1: they're just denying the conclusion that they are guilty. And

1370
01:07:24,080 --> 01:07:26,680
Speaker 1: just when they say and when they say I didn't

1371
01:07:26,720 --> 01:07:30,200
Speaker 1: do it, they are denying the action. So he's saying

1372
01:07:30,240 --> 01:07:33,360
Speaker 1: he's guilty, he's not guilty of the charges, leaving out

1373
01:07:33,360 --> 01:07:36,160
Speaker 1: what the charges are, again, not telling you I'm innocent

1374
01:07:36,200 --> 01:07:37,040
Speaker 1: of killing my wife.

1375
01:07:37,760 --> 01:07:42,160
Speaker 2: And it's that it's the super egomaniacal thing of I

1376
01:07:42,320 --> 01:07:46,080
Speaker 2: am innocent. Yes, is about me and I'm being persecuted.

1377
01:07:45,920 --> 01:07:49,200
Speaker 1: And it's so sad for me. I didn't kill my wife.

1378
01:07:49,600 --> 01:07:54,080
Speaker 1: I would never I would never hurt Kathleen. Yes, nothing

1379
01:07:54,200 --> 01:07:54,360
Speaker 1: like that.

1380
01:07:54,560 --> 01:07:57,920
Speaker 2: I will I would never hurt Kathleen conceptually, right, I

1381
01:07:58,040 --> 01:07:59,080
Speaker 2: mean not really.

1382
01:07:59,200 --> 01:08:02,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, but yeah, it's so fucked up. Oh, and then

1383
01:08:03,040 --> 01:08:07,120
Speaker 1: he says in the Ohen else says, I'm truly innocent

1384
01:08:07,200 --> 01:08:09,000
Speaker 1: of these charges. Just of course, when you say truly,

1385
01:08:09,120 --> 01:08:10,800
Speaker 1: it's like, why are you making a why are you

1386
01:08:10,880 --> 01:08:14,240
Speaker 1: making a like a qualifier blah blah blah as opposed

1387
01:08:14,240 --> 01:08:17,479
Speaker 1: to regular innocence. Right, yea truly. But then another quote

1388
01:08:17,520 --> 01:08:19,960
Speaker 1: he says is when I think of Kathleen, and he says,

1389
01:08:19,960 --> 01:08:22,919
Speaker 1: it's in the staircase. When I think of Kathleen, I remember, unfortunately.

1390
01:08:22,920 --> 01:08:25,400
Speaker 1: What I remember, unfortunately is her dying in my arms.

1391
01:08:26,000 --> 01:08:28,400
Speaker 1: That's true, she died in my arms. Why do you

1392
01:08:28,479 --> 01:08:32,840
Speaker 1: have to say that killing He's like goosing the sympathy. Yeah,

1393
01:08:32,880 --> 01:08:36,360
Speaker 1: And it's also like, we think she died hours before that.

1394
01:08:36,600 --> 01:08:38,679
Speaker 1: So him saying it's true she died in my arms

1395
01:08:38,680 --> 01:08:40,160
Speaker 1: because the first time he called nine one when he

1396
01:08:40,200 --> 01:08:41,680
Speaker 1: said she was still alive. In the second time he

1397
01:08:41,680 --> 01:08:44,240
Speaker 1: said she wasn't. But based on the neurons, which you

1398
01:08:44,280 --> 01:08:47,080
Speaker 1: need to talk about, the red blood neurons in her brain,

1399
01:08:47,280 --> 01:08:51,559
Speaker 1: she died hours before. Then he says, uh. Then he says.

1400
01:08:52,800 --> 01:08:55,560
Speaker 1: He says something about how the last time that was

1401
01:08:55,800 --> 01:08:58,040
Speaker 1: He says, when she was walking to go back into

1402
01:08:58,040 --> 01:09:00,360
Speaker 1: the house after they have been sitting outside, that was

1403
01:09:00,400 --> 01:09:02,320
Speaker 1: the last time he saw her alive. And then he

1404
01:09:02,439 --> 01:09:05,800
Speaker 1: goes except for when I found her, Like he has

1405
01:09:05,880 --> 01:09:08,120
Speaker 1: to be like, oh fuck, I'm My story is that

1406
01:09:08,200 --> 01:09:11,120
Speaker 1: I found her alive at the bottom of the stairs.

1407
01:09:11,200 --> 01:09:13,720
Speaker 2: Yeah, which she didn't. He forgot, right, he forgot that

1408
01:09:13,920 --> 01:09:15,360
Speaker 2: was the story, right. Well, the one thing I was

1409
01:09:15,439 --> 01:09:20,320
Speaker 2: going to say is they talk about it really bugs me,

1410
01:09:20,520 --> 01:09:27,639
Speaker 2: Like when I was watching the documentary the prosecutorial team

1411
01:09:27,880 --> 01:09:29,920
Speaker 2: which he hired before there were.

1412
01:09:29,880 --> 01:09:35,280
Speaker 1: Charges against him and one another narcissistic creep. Yes that lawyer. Yeah,

1413
01:09:35,320 --> 01:09:39,840
Speaker 1: what's his name? Uh, I remember Rudolph but sort of thing.

1414
01:09:39,960 --> 01:09:43,080
Speaker 2: But basically he tries to say, there is no way

1415
01:09:43,479 --> 01:09:48,000
Speaker 2: that somebody could beat somebody else with a blowpoke in

1416
01:09:48,160 --> 01:09:53,040
Speaker 2: that staircase, like or with any instrument that would have

1417
01:09:53,120 --> 01:09:55,680
Speaker 2: given her those seven deep lacerations in the back of

1418
01:09:55,760 --> 01:09:57,760
Speaker 2: her head at the bottom of that staircase. There's not

1419
01:09:57,960 --> 01:10:01,720
Speaker 2: enough room that you couldn't pull that thing up over

1420
01:10:01,800 --> 01:10:04,920
Speaker 2: your head over and over and beat some with that,

1421
01:10:05,080 --> 01:10:08,519
Speaker 2: which is a bullshit because you don't know that's not

1422
01:10:08,760 --> 01:10:12,120
Speaker 2: the blowpook itself, so that it's like predicating everything on

1423
01:10:12,200 --> 01:10:14,000
Speaker 2: this one concept, which is like, we don't.

1424
01:10:13,840 --> 01:10:15,479
Speaker 1: Know if that's it, don't know if it's a blowbook,

1425
01:10:15,520 --> 01:10:18,120
Speaker 1: but that's the murder weapon, is what I'm saying. Yeah,

1426
01:10:18,280 --> 01:10:19,479
Speaker 1: and also or.

1427
01:10:19,640 --> 01:10:21,680
Speaker 2: Could he could just be holding it right up to

1428
01:10:22,160 --> 01:10:25,080
Speaker 2: the hills and not it's not like he's got it.

1429
01:10:25,120 --> 01:10:27,160
Speaker 1: At the very end. Or I read in another thing

1430
01:10:27,240 --> 01:10:30,280
Speaker 1: that maybe he just hit her head against the stairs. Sure,

1431
01:10:30,600 --> 01:10:34,479
Speaker 1: and that's that's and that would take a small hit

1432
01:10:34,840 --> 01:10:38,439
Speaker 1: to open the scalp up and not cause brain or

1433
01:10:38,680 --> 01:10:41,040
Speaker 1: skull fractures. Which is one of the points that people

1434
01:10:41,120 --> 01:10:43,360
Speaker 1: made is if he had beaten her, there'd be skull fractures,

1435
01:10:43,800 --> 01:10:46,080
Speaker 1: and there wasn't. So if it was an up close hit,

1436
01:10:46,240 --> 01:10:49,880
Speaker 1: there wouldn't be skull fractures. Maybe because she died by

1437
01:10:49,920 --> 01:10:52,160
Speaker 1: bleeding out, she didn't die from a skull.

1438
01:10:52,000 --> 01:10:55,400
Speaker 2: Fracture, right, which normally I think most doctors would say,

1439
01:10:55,800 --> 01:10:57,720
Speaker 2: if you fell down the stairs, hit your head a

1440
01:10:57,840 --> 01:11:00,680
Speaker 2: bunch of times, you still wouldn't bleed out, right, I wouldn't.

1441
01:11:00,360 --> 01:11:02,080
Speaker 1: Bleed out that quickly, and you have a concussion.

1442
01:11:02,640 --> 01:11:06,719
Speaker 2: But The other thing is that then later on they try,

1443
01:11:07,000 --> 01:11:10,040
Speaker 2: they attempt to get a retrial because the neighbor finds

1444
01:11:10,200 --> 01:11:13,960
Speaker 2: a tire iron, and then they say they they withheld

1445
01:11:14,040 --> 01:11:18,200
Speaker 2: this evidence, that the prosecution withheld this evidence, and so

1446
01:11:18,320 --> 01:11:20,360
Speaker 2: the defense was like, we need a new trial because

1447
01:11:20,400 --> 01:11:23,000
Speaker 2: they withheld the possibility there could be a prowler that

1448
01:11:23,120 --> 01:11:25,360
Speaker 2: had a tire iron. So all of a sudden, the

1449
01:11:25,479 --> 01:11:27,839
Speaker 2: same people are arguing the exact same.

1450
01:11:28,120 --> 01:11:29,760
Speaker 1: The opposite of what they were saying, which is like,

1451
01:11:29,800 --> 01:11:31,000
Speaker 1: oh so a prowler could.

1452
01:11:30,840 --> 01:11:33,200
Speaker 2: Beat her with a tire iron, but he couldn't beat

1453
01:11:33,240 --> 01:11:34,880
Speaker 2: her with a blowpoke, Right, that makes sense?

1454
01:11:34,920 --> 01:11:38,479
Speaker 1: It doesn't. It's so crazy. Also that the blowpoke was missing,

1455
01:11:38,720 --> 01:11:42,320
Speaker 1: and later in the documentary one that the other son

1456
01:11:42,520 --> 01:11:47,880
Speaker 1: finds the blowpoke in the garage, which is weird. Well,

1457
01:11:48,479 --> 01:11:51,479
Speaker 1: and the police, who we all know, like, you know,

1458
01:11:51,720 --> 01:11:53,320
Speaker 1: it's we're very biased in this.

1459
01:11:53,520 --> 01:11:56,479
Speaker 2: But the police in the American justice are like, we

1460
01:11:56,600 --> 01:11:59,280
Speaker 2: went all over that garage, the blowpoke was not in the.

1461
01:11:59,280 --> 01:12:02,639
Speaker 1: Garage, and they find the blowpoke without the end the tip.

1462
01:12:02,840 --> 01:12:05,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, and they all they did was they

1463
01:12:05,120 --> 01:12:07,200
Speaker 2: didn't find it leave it where it was called The

1464
01:12:07,280 --> 01:12:08,839
Speaker 2: copsybody go take pictures.

1465
01:12:09,200 --> 01:12:12,680
Speaker 1: They presented it in court to say we found this yeah,

1466
01:12:12,680 --> 01:12:14,640
Speaker 1: and it was on video right like while they were

1467
01:12:14,760 --> 01:12:16,840
Speaker 1: recording the documentary. Yeah.

1468
01:12:17,920 --> 01:12:20,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, So then we're like, here it is, we found it.

1469
01:12:20,200 --> 01:12:22,519
Speaker 2: Here it is everybody. And then they're just like, well, yeah,

1470
01:12:22,680 --> 01:12:25,200
Speaker 2: you could have any you can't put that there. And

1471
01:12:25,320 --> 01:12:27,400
Speaker 2: then the camera was recording, right, Oh my god, this

1472
01:12:27,520 --> 01:12:30,080
Speaker 2: is so perfect. Yeah, like that doesn't mean anything, but

1473
01:12:30,160 --> 01:12:32,800
Speaker 2: they were introducing they were doing that tricky shit of

1474
01:12:32,960 --> 01:12:35,519
Speaker 2: introducing ideas that are like, oh.

1475
01:12:37,000 --> 01:12:42,599
Speaker 1: Yeah. Also, so there's all these injuries to her head

1476
01:12:42,680 --> 01:12:45,880
Speaker 1: and neck, contusions all over her arms, in the back

1477
01:12:45,880 --> 01:12:48,360
Speaker 1: of her arms, and she has zero injuries to her

1478
01:12:48,439 --> 01:12:50,599
Speaker 1: knees and legs, which you think, falling down the stairs

1479
01:12:50,600 --> 01:12:55,160
Speaker 1: you'd absolutely hit your fucking legs. So then the other thing, God,

1480
01:12:55,240 --> 01:12:58,120
Speaker 1: can we talk about doctor Henry Lee. Oh oh my god.

1481
01:12:58,360 --> 01:13:01,560
Speaker 2: Oh him spitting that ketchup. Oh my god, it's so

1482
01:13:02,320 --> 01:13:05,320
Speaker 2: And also, you know they hired him really early. They

1483
01:13:05,400 --> 01:13:08,400
Speaker 2: hired him, they made sure he was available. Like basically,

1484
01:13:08,520 --> 01:13:11,160
Speaker 2: these lawyers knew this thing was going to blow up.

1485
01:13:11,720 --> 01:13:14,240
Speaker 2: He was like semi famous authors, so they knew.

1486
01:13:14,320 --> 01:13:17,360
Speaker 1: They just they got there. All their heavy hitters like

1487
01:13:17,600 --> 01:13:20,040
Speaker 1: they knew this could be a thing. Yeah, and they could.

1488
01:13:20,160 --> 01:13:21,439
Speaker 1: They couldn't make it a big thing.

1489
01:13:21,439 --> 01:13:23,439
Speaker 2: That they're going to get if he's the guy that

1490
01:13:23,560 --> 01:13:27,200
Speaker 2: got up you know that was it a football player

1491
01:13:27,920 --> 01:13:32,600
Speaker 2: basically exonerated for murder. Then he then they also were like, well,

1492
01:13:32,640 --> 01:13:34,920
Speaker 2: we'll get doctor Henry Lee, he's from an OJ trial,

1493
01:13:35,200 --> 01:13:37,280
Speaker 2: and we'll get these people and like just line everybody

1494
01:13:37,360 --> 01:13:40,080
Speaker 2: up to what looks like here's here's what it looks

1495
01:13:40,120 --> 01:13:41,840
Speaker 2: like a team of people who get people off.

1496
01:13:41,840 --> 01:13:44,280
Speaker 1: They wouldn't pay this amount of money if they didn't

1497
01:13:44,320 --> 01:13:47,000
Speaker 1: think he wasn't you know what I mean? Yeah, okay,

1498
01:13:47,120 --> 01:13:53,280
Speaker 1: so here, okay, so rare red neurons. Okay, Basically there

1499
01:13:53,320 --> 01:13:58,120
Speaker 1: were these neurons and Kathleen's brain that were consistent with

1500
01:13:59,360 --> 01:14:03,960
Speaker 1: the brain having a long period like a couple hours

1501
01:14:04,240 --> 01:14:08,240
Speaker 1: lack of oxygen before dying. So essentially it shows that

1502
01:14:08,760 --> 01:14:12,080
Speaker 1: these injuries to her head happened hours before he called

1503
01:14:12,160 --> 01:14:14,680
Speaker 1: nine to one one and she died. And to me,

1504
01:14:14,920 --> 01:14:18,040
Speaker 1: that's uh yeah, no, no, no, this means she was

1505
01:14:18,120 --> 01:14:21,479
Speaker 1: unconscious a while before she actually died, right, So that

1506
01:14:21,640 --> 01:14:23,559
Speaker 1: to me, that's all you that's all you really.

1507
01:14:23,400 --> 01:14:26,120
Speaker 2: Need, Like because it's even longer than his claim forty

1508
01:14:26,160 --> 01:14:27,839
Speaker 2: five minutes of like I was out drinks.

1509
01:14:28,080 --> 01:14:30,400
Speaker 1: Cool and when I found her and he's on nine

1510
01:14:30,400 --> 01:14:33,160
Speaker 1: one one, he's like, she's alive. So that would have

1511
01:14:33,200 --> 01:14:36,240
Speaker 1: been forty five minutes. Yeah, and that's not consistent with

1512
01:14:37,080 --> 01:14:40,599
Speaker 1: you can't neurons don't lie, right, that's that's due that's

1513
01:14:40,680 --> 01:14:41,280
Speaker 1: deep science.

1514
01:14:41,400 --> 01:14:41,599
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1515
01:14:42,200 --> 01:14:51,320
Speaker 1: Also, the uh thyroid cartilage that was that was damage.

1516
01:14:51,520 --> 01:14:52,360
Speaker 1: I can't remember neck.

1517
01:14:52,479 --> 01:14:57,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, how they described that was it like, uh, you see,

1518
01:14:57,080 --> 01:14:59,400
Speaker 2: you can't break cartilage, right, so it's like it was,

1519
01:14:59,640 --> 01:15:00,640
Speaker 2: but it was hemorrhaging.

1520
01:15:00,840 --> 01:15:01,040
Speaker 1: Yeah.

1521
01:15:01,040 --> 01:15:05,799
Speaker 2: And so basically that means when your thyroid cartilage is damaged,

1522
01:15:05,920 --> 01:15:06,840
Speaker 2: that's strangulation.

1523
01:15:07,200 --> 01:15:10,080
Speaker 1: Because a fracture of the thighroid neck cartilage.

1524
01:15:10,080 --> 01:15:13,000
Speaker 2: Oh okay, so you can fracture it. So but it's

1525
01:15:13,760 --> 01:15:16,800
Speaker 2: it's pressure on the neck. It's indicative of being strangled.

1526
01:15:17,240 --> 01:15:19,959
Speaker 2: But it also is hemorrhaged. So she was being strangled.

1527
01:15:20,240 --> 01:15:20,840
Speaker 1: She was alive.

1528
01:15:21,000 --> 01:15:22,840
Speaker 2: This isn't a thing where she fell down the stairs

1529
01:15:22,920 --> 01:15:26,439
Speaker 2: broke her neck and that's why that was damaged. She

1530
01:15:27,400 --> 01:15:30,800
Speaker 2: she was strangled while alive. Yeah, almost like someone was

1531
01:15:30,840 --> 01:15:31,519
Speaker 2: holding her down.

1532
01:15:32,080 --> 01:15:34,760
Speaker 1: Yeah, and also had their foot on the back of

1533
01:15:34,840 --> 01:15:38,439
Speaker 1: her leg to keep her in place, and was straddling

1534
01:15:38,520 --> 01:15:40,639
Speaker 1: her at the same time, and that's how he got

1535
01:15:41,040 --> 01:15:43,320
Speaker 1: blood batters on the inside of his shorts.

1536
01:15:43,439 --> 01:15:45,800
Speaker 2: Yep, and just hit her on the back of the

1537
01:15:45,840 --> 01:15:48,080
Speaker 2: head as she was sitting on the stairs, flipped her

1538
01:15:48,120 --> 01:15:50,360
Speaker 2: over so that she looked like she had.

1539
01:15:50,920 --> 01:15:53,800
Speaker 1: Tried to clean up a little bit. She came back,

1540
01:15:54,800 --> 01:16:01,200
Speaker 1: she came back to consciousness, consciousness, conscious, and he had

1541
01:16:01,240 --> 01:16:04,519
Speaker 1: to hit her again, covered up those blood spatters. Called

1542
01:16:04,600 --> 01:16:09,920
Speaker 1: nine woman, I mean, or a prowler came in and

1543
01:16:10,040 --> 01:16:14,960
Speaker 1: hit her with an owl. That's they add those together.

1544
01:16:15,200 --> 01:16:17,439
Speaker 1: If we're gonna fucking do this. The owl theory.

1545
01:16:17,560 --> 01:16:19,400
Speaker 2: The idea of the owl theory is from a neighbor,

1546
01:16:19,680 --> 01:16:21,519
Speaker 2: like a nosy neighbor who has nothing to do with

1547
01:16:21,600 --> 01:16:23,800
Speaker 2: the case, but he's like, I know what this is

1548
01:16:23,880 --> 01:16:25,000
Speaker 2: and it can't be him, and this.

1549
01:16:25,120 --> 01:16:27,679
Speaker 1: Is really what it is. When you for me, people

1550
01:16:27,840 --> 01:16:30,120
Speaker 1: believe it, people believe we're going to get to that,

1551
01:16:30,360 --> 01:16:31,479
Speaker 1: and I get the thing where people.

1552
01:16:31,640 --> 01:16:34,360
Speaker 2: I was looking up owl injuries today because I was like,

1553
01:16:34,400 --> 01:16:36,519
Speaker 2: what do those look like compared to what these both

1554
01:16:36,600 --> 01:16:38,000
Speaker 2: of these cases of both of these.

1555
01:16:37,960 --> 01:16:40,240
Speaker 1: Women with seven lacerations on the back of their head.

1556
01:16:40,280 --> 01:16:41,040
Speaker 1: What do they look like?

1557
01:16:41,800 --> 01:16:45,320
Speaker 2: Not the same because owl talons look like puncture wounds, right,

1558
01:16:45,600 --> 01:16:50,360
Speaker 2: and these and the lacerations are long drag marquee like

1559
01:16:50,640 --> 01:16:51,680
Speaker 2: cut deep cut.

1560
01:16:51,840 --> 01:16:54,280
Speaker 1: They'll do the impatis what do they put it when

1561
01:16:54,280 --> 01:16:56,600
Speaker 1: they put the talent over the wound to show you

1562
01:16:56,640 --> 01:17:00,439
Speaker 1: what it looks like. But actually, owl talents, it's not

1563
01:17:00,640 --> 01:17:03,400
Speaker 1: three claws in the front and one in the back.

1564
01:17:03,760 --> 01:17:06,599
Speaker 1: It's they have three and it's you know, listen, yes,

1565
01:17:06,720 --> 01:17:07,680
Speaker 1: I'm not a fucking.

1566
01:17:08,320 --> 01:17:10,640
Speaker 2: It's mostly just those three that go like that, right,

1567
01:17:10,720 --> 01:17:13,000
Speaker 2: they're kind of like they take up all that space,

1568
01:17:13,120 --> 01:17:15,120
Speaker 2: and the one on the back step here and fun

1569
01:17:15,360 --> 01:17:16,439
Speaker 2: and cool and I like.

1570
01:17:16,479 --> 01:17:18,240
Speaker 1: Reading about it, but it's not true.

1571
01:17:18,920 --> 01:17:21,800
Speaker 2: I don't think it's true because was there are you

1572
01:17:21,960 --> 01:17:25,200
Speaker 2: then saying you would have to then say that that

1573
01:17:26,240 --> 01:17:30,960
Speaker 2: what's the woman in Germany's name Liz Elizabeth, Yeah, Ratcliffe Ratcliffe, Ratliff, Ratliffe,

1574
01:17:32,320 --> 01:17:35,479
Speaker 2: that she was also attacked by Now, like it doesn't

1575
01:17:35,479 --> 01:17:37,679
Speaker 2: make sense because it's the exact same death.

1576
01:17:39,160 --> 01:17:43,559
Speaker 1: He's the common denominator, Like maybe the fucking owl found

1577
01:17:43,600 --> 01:17:44,120
Speaker 1: the gay porn?

1578
01:17:44,920 --> 01:17:48,519
Speaker 2: Could you imagine that owls? Like I never use this computer. Yeah,

1579
01:17:48,600 --> 01:17:51,599
Speaker 2: but tonight, that's how fucking ridiculous it is. I mean,

1580
01:17:51,680 --> 01:17:55,280
Speaker 2: look also with that theory, he it was long and

1581
01:17:55,479 --> 01:17:57,800
Speaker 2: ago enough that he could have been keeping all of

1582
01:17:57,880 --> 01:18:00,479
Speaker 2: his porn in a little file that said pornunderneath it.

1583
01:18:00,920 --> 01:18:03,639
Speaker 1: And then she was like, you know what, I'm that's true.

1584
01:18:03,760 --> 01:18:06,439
Speaker 1: What kind of women does he like? You know, maybe

1585
01:18:06,520 --> 01:18:09,120
Speaker 1: he was maybe she was fine with him being into

1586
01:18:09,160 --> 01:18:11,560
Speaker 1: gay porn. Like that's my thing about it. It's like

1587
01:18:11,680 --> 01:18:14,760
Speaker 1: maybe he she did know he was bisexual and was

1588
01:18:14,800 --> 01:18:18,240
Speaker 1: okay with it, you know, like it's fine, nothing's wrong

1589
01:18:18,280 --> 01:18:20,439
Speaker 1: with that. But I think when you get over into

1590
01:18:20,479 --> 01:18:24,560
Speaker 1: fucking paying for sex territory, yes, having affairs is a

1591
01:18:24,560 --> 01:18:29,040
Speaker 1: different thing. Having an affair with a male escort in

1592
01:18:29,160 --> 01:18:33,120
Speaker 1: your home while you're at work, Yeah, you know. That's

1593
01:18:33,240 --> 01:18:37,040
Speaker 1: and Kathleen had divorced her fucking first husband because he

1594
01:18:37,160 --> 01:18:40,240
Speaker 1: was having an affair, so I did not okay or

1595
01:18:40,560 --> 01:18:43,360
Speaker 1: you know, had cheated on her. So she's not okay

1596
01:18:43,800 --> 01:18:47,160
Speaker 1: with affairs based on the fact on her history. Fuck no, well,

1597
01:18:47,240 --> 01:18:49,599
Speaker 1: no one's okay with affairs, even mean affairs. I mean,

1598
01:18:49,720 --> 01:18:52,920
Speaker 1: like you know, open marriages, and he did right in

1599
01:18:53,400 --> 01:18:55,800
Speaker 1: one of the emails to this dude he was trying

1600
01:18:55,840 --> 01:18:59,519
Speaker 1: to hire. I'm a married man to a wonderful woman

1601
01:19:01,000 --> 01:19:03,800
Speaker 1: and she knows or and you know something like that.

1602
01:19:04,640 --> 01:19:08,240
Speaker 1: So it's like it's just such a weird mindset.

1603
01:19:08,640 --> 01:19:12,799
Speaker 2: It's like he does whatever he wants and rationalizes it probably.

1604
01:19:13,640 --> 01:19:15,160
Speaker 2: I think you know what would freak me out even

1605
01:19:15,240 --> 01:19:19,760
Speaker 2: more is that the way that Kathleen and Michael met

1606
01:19:20,160 --> 01:19:25,360
Speaker 2: was because when they when after Michael got divorced from

1607
01:19:25,400 --> 01:19:27,639
Speaker 2: his first wife and I think her name is Patty,

1608
01:19:27,960 --> 01:19:30,280
Speaker 2: and they moved out, she took the sons and Michael

1609
01:19:30,360 --> 01:19:33,599
Speaker 2: stayed with the two girls. The two girls started playing

1610
01:19:33,640 --> 01:19:35,280
Speaker 2: with Caitlin in the neighborhood.

1611
01:19:35,800 --> 01:19:36,639
Speaker 1: And that's how.

1612
01:19:36,800 --> 01:19:38,719
Speaker 2: Kathleen and Michael met in the first place, is because

1613
01:19:38,720 --> 01:19:42,240
Speaker 2: all the girls were Yeah, And I don't know why

1614
01:19:42,360 --> 01:19:44,720
Speaker 2: that freaks me out so much, but it's like it's

1615
01:19:44,800 --> 01:19:48,760
Speaker 2: not like they they came together in this weird way that.

1616
01:19:49,040 --> 01:19:52,639
Speaker 1: Well, so there's like family photos of them that make

1617
01:19:52,680 --> 01:19:56,200
Speaker 1: me uncomfortable, Like, but they're all standing together as like

1618
01:19:56,280 --> 01:19:59,400
Speaker 1: this brady a bunch family. Yes, I don't know how

1619
01:19:59,479 --> 01:20:04,280
Speaker 1: old were the the adopted girls when Michael and Kathleen

1620
01:20:04,320 --> 01:20:07,680
Speaker 1: got married, they were older, Yeah, because they had they.

1621
01:20:08,439 --> 01:20:11,519
Speaker 2: I think those girls met each other when they were

1622
01:20:11,640 --> 01:20:15,320
Speaker 2: like preteens maybe, and then that they were together for

1623
01:20:15,600 --> 01:20:16,280
Speaker 2: like eight years.

1624
01:20:16,360 --> 01:20:19,320
Speaker 1: So the fact that they called Kathleen mom makes me

1625
01:20:19,400 --> 01:20:24,080
Speaker 1: a little uncomfortable. I just the whole Michael just seemed

1626
01:20:24,120 --> 01:20:27,120
Speaker 1: like a cult leader to me. And these these two

1627
01:20:27,320 --> 01:20:30,360
Speaker 1: adopted girls who lost first they lost their biological father,

1628
01:20:30,760 --> 01:20:33,840
Speaker 1: then their mother died in these insane circumstances. They go

1629
01:20:34,000 --> 01:20:38,000
Speaker 1: to and live with this man family friend and his wife.

1630
01:20:38,200 --> 01:20:43,320
Speaker 1: They divorce. The two girls are with this guy, they

1631
01:20:43,400 --> 01:20:45,439
Speaker 1: find this great woman and they're like, oh, like it's

1632
01:20:45,479 --> 01:20:49,640
Speaker 1: almost this Like, did Michael tell the adopted daughters to

1633
01:20:49,800 --> 01:20:53,400
Speaker 1: call Kathleen mom in a manipulative way because it would

1634
01:20:53,439 --> 01:20:55,479
Speaker 1: make her want to stick around, you know what I mean?

1635
01:20:55,760 --> 01:20:58,280
Speaker 2: Or is it just that they wanted normalcy right? And

1636
01:20:58,360 --> 01:21:01,559
Speaker 2: they just were like, Okay, great, she's landed. We're doing

1637
01:21:01,680 --> 01:21:04,120
Speaker 2: this like we're building our own family. Yeah, and we're

1638
01:21:04,120 --> 01:21:05,040
Speaker 2: gonna make this work.

1639
01:21:05,280 --> 01:21:08,559
Speaker 1: Well, the son's called her mom too, didn't they? Yes?

1640
01:21:08,840 --> 01:21:11,800
Speaker 1: But no, they couldn't have they had their own mom,

1641
01:21:12,360 --> 01:21:16,800
Speaker 1: like a living mom. They did, they did, but that

1642
01:21:16,880 --> 01:21:19,080
Speaker 1: whole dynamic, there's something off about it to me.

1643
01:21:19,360 --> 01:21:22,559
Speaker 2: Well, because in this I keep talking about like it's

1644
01:21:22,640 --> 01:21:25,560
Speaker 2: my pride and joy in this American Justice. There is

1645
01:21:25,640 --> 01:21:29,240
Speaker 2: a part where they are all and I wonder if

1646
01:21:29,320 --> 01:21:32,000
Speaker 2: the producers of that show manipulated them. But they're all

1647
01:21:32,080 --> 01:21:35,600
Speaker 2: sitting around looking at like Christmas pictures and one of

1648
01:21:35,640 --> 01:21:39,280
Speaker 2: the daughters says, oh, yeah, this is she loved her stairs.

1649
01:21:39,360 --> 01:21:42,360
Speaker 2: She always had to put her Christmas decorations. And basically

1650
01:21:42,439 --> 01:21:45,599
Speaker 2: she's talking about the front like the main staircase, which

1651
01:21:45,720 --> 01:21:45,880
Speaker 2: is a.

1652
01:21:45,920 --> 01:21:49,120
Speaker 1: Photo of them together in her wedding dress on the stairs. Yeah,

1653
01:21:49,360 --> 01:21:53,000
Speaker 1: so creepy. And but basically it's just her. It's them talking.

1654
01:21:52,760 --> 01:21:54,920
Speaker 2: About it like oh, she loved her stairs, and like

1655
01:21:55,040 --> 01:21:59,400
Speaker 2: wave and it's and but she goes it's so cute,

1656
01:21:59,520 --> 01:22:01,600
Speaker 2: and it's just like them all trying to act like

1657
01:22:02,320 --> 01:22:04,280
Speaker 2: we have the best, we have the most perfect life.

1658
01:22:04,320 --> 01:22:06,280
Speaker 1: We had the most perfect life. They were so in love.

1659
01:22:06,640 --> 01:22:08,720
Speaker 1: It's almost like if I guess what I guess in

1660
01:22:08,760 --> 01:22:12,400
Speaker 1: the staircase, the daughters, the adopted daughters, feel like they're

1661
01:22:12,400 --> 01:22:18,400
Speaker 1: being paraded to to show to give Michael Peters and

1662
01:22:18,880 --> 01:22:22,479
Speaker 1: sympathy that he has a family who supports him. The

1663
01:22:22,560 --> 01:22:26,160
Speaker 1: way they're shown emotionally so much and talked about as

1664
01:22:26,479 --> 01:22:31,120
Speaker 1: and they speak on cameras so like, you know emotionally

1665
01:22:31,320 --> 01:22:33,320
Speaker 1: that their dad could never do this. It almost seems

1666
01:22:33,360 --> 01:22:38,040
Speaker 1: like they're being used by him and his side in

1667
01:22:38,160 --> 01:22:40,240
Speaker 1: a way to show to have empathy because he has

1668
01:22:40,320 --> 01:22:40,880
Speaker 1: fucking none.

1669
01:22:41,200 --> 01:22:45,120
Speaker 2: Well, I mean they it seems like it's absolutely their choice.

1670
01:22:45,280 --> 01:22:47,960
Speaker 2: So it's what they want to do. And I feel

1671
01:22:48,000 --> 01:22:50,719
Speaker 2: like they understand the importance of if someone is accused

1672
01:22:50,760 --> 01:22:53,559
Speaker 2: of this terrible crime, especially if they're innocent, which.

1673
01:22:53,400 --> 01:22:56,479
Speaker 1: They believe he is or at least, but there's no

1674
01:22:56,640 --> 01:23:01,200
Speaker 1: room for them to even grapple with that idea. Otherwise

1675
01:23:01,479 --> 01:23:02,120
Speaker 1: I don't think.

1676
01:23:02,000 --> 01:23:04,640
Speaker 2: You could in that scenario because it would be like

1677
01:23:06,040 --> 01:23:08,240
Speaker 2: this is like now it's us against them, right, It's not.

1678
01:23:08,320 --> 01:23:10,639
Speaker 1: There's no room for great I need for my lad

1679
01:23:10,960 --> 01:23:13,560
Speaker 1: what happened. I need my dad to not have done this.

1680
01:23:13,960 --> 01:23:15,519
Speaker 1: There's that could you imagine?

1681
01:23:15,600 --> 01:23:18,519
Speaker 2: Because then if he did that, then he also it

1682
01:23:18,600 --> 01:23:20,040
Speaker 2: opens the doors to their own money.

1683
01:23:20,320 --> 01:23:24,800
Speaker 1: They fucking end up okaying their own mother, their biological mother,

1684
01:23:24,840 --> 01:23:28,519
Speaker 1: Elizabeth at Ratliffe, being fucking exhumed, yes, because they and

1685
01:23:28,600 --> 01:23:30,640
Speaker 1: they think it's going to prove him innocent, right, and

1686
01:23:30,760 --> 01:23:35,439
Speaker 1: instead of instead her cause of death gets changed to homicide.

1687
01:23:35,040 --> 01:23:38,320
Speaker 2: Yes, because they see those fucking lacerations and it's all

1688
01:23:38,640 --> 01:23:39,320
Speaker 2: mirror image.

1689
01:23:39,360 --> 01:23:43,760
Speaker 1: But instead everyone is against Michael Peterson, and that's the

1690
01:23:44,040 --> 01:23:49,200
Speaker 1: that's there, that's his narrative is instead they're against him, right,

1691
01:23:49,280 --> 01:23:52,519
Speaker 1: and they're making this stuff up, which maybe it's true

1692
01:23:52,520 --> 01:23:56,760
Speaker 1: because this fucking blood analyst was making shit up.

1693
01:23:56,840 --> 01:24:01,160
Speaker 2: I mean, that's the nothing is so that nothing is

1694
01:24:01,280 --> 01:24:03,519
Speaker 2: simple and nothing is ever all one way.

1695
01:24:03,560 --> 01:24:04,920
Speaker 1: Of these are the good guys and these are the bad.

1696
01:24:04,960 --> 01:24:06,840
Speaker 1: Total I have room for the fact that I could

1697
01:24:06,840 --> 01:24:08,760
Speaker 1: be totally fucking wrong about all of this and he

1698
01:24:08,880 --> 01:24:12,600
Speaker 1: might be innocent. I am not. I will never be like,

1699
01:24:13,240 --> 01:24:16,800
Speaker 1: not never, but there's room for that, Yes, there is.

1700
01:24:16,920 --> 01:24:19,280
Speaker 1: This is just how this seems based on the information

1701
01:24:19,400 --> 01:24:23,120
Speaker 1: that I've been able to find and the vibes, and because.

1702
01:24:23,040 --> 01:24:26,320
Speaker 2: It's that vibe, that's the thing that drives me the craziest.

1703
01:24:26,479 --> 01:24:28,599
Speaker 2: Is I just want to go, you don't think you're

1704
01:24:28,680 --> 01:24:31,439
Speaker 2: convincing the right of all people because I don't buy

1705
01:24:31,479 --> 01:24:32,120
Speaker 2: your dumb.

1706
01:24:32,040 --> 01:24:34,640
Speaker 1: Pipe, but that pipe are not fooling me.

1707
01:24:34,920 --> 01:24:37,960
Speaker 2: And also it's just the I'm like, I'm a connoisseur

1708
01:24:38,080 --> 01:24:41,040
Speaker 2: of good acting and this is not too good acting

1709
01:24:41,280 --> 01:24:41,800
Speaker 2: at all?

1710
01:24:42,320 --> 01:24:44,880
Speaker 1: And how are you acting to begin with? Yes, why

1711
01:24:44,960 --> 01:24:47,920
Speaker 1: can't bad? It's like you can still tell acting whether

1712
01:24:47,960 --> 01:24:48,679
Speaker 1: it's good or bad.

1713
01:24:49,320 --> 01:24:51,880
Speaker 2: Why are you bothering the thing that we both named,

1714
01:24:52,000 --> 01:24:54,880
Speaker 2: the thing that I played a recording of is it's

1715
01:24:55,200 --> 01:24:59,840
Speaker 2: terrible acting. It is inappropriate. It's the There is absolutely

1716
01:25:00,120 --> 01:25:03,800
Speaker 2: nothing genuine about it. Whatsoever. It is is rehearsed. It's

1717
01:25:03,920 --> 01:25:05,240
Speaker 2: like bad community theater.

1718
01:25:05,479 --> 01:25:07,960
Speaker 1: It's the first time of him speaking to the media too,

1719
01:25:08,200 --> 01:25:11,080
Speaker 1: and he thinks that's what's going to make them get

1720
01:25:11,160 --> 01:25:16,080
Speaker 1: on his side because he doesn't understand basic human emotions

1721
01:25:16,240 --> 01:25:20,080
Speaker 1: such as if you're crying and you are freaking out

1722
01:25:20,080 --> 01:25:22,200
Speaker 1: about what's going on, people are on your side because

1723
01:25:22,240 --> 01:25:23,719
Speaker 1: they're like, that's a real emotion.

1724
01:25:24,360 --> 01:25:26,880
Speaker 2: That's how he's really And now I can hear the

1725
01:25:26,920 --> 01:25:29,320
Speaker 2: people that would argue of like nobody grieves the same

1726
01:25:29,439 --> 01:25:33,800
Speaker 2: or he was in a position that nobody could anticipate

1727
01:25:34,000 --> 01:25:34,759
Speaker 2: or imagine.

1728
01:25:37,000 --> 01:25:39,560
Speaker 1: Corneass fucking statement. Exactly right, he's not.

1729
01:25:40,240 --> 01:25:43,320
Speaker 2: This isn't like they trapped him on the street and

1730
01:25:43,560 --> 01:25:45,960
Speaker 2: forced him to give a statement. This was him breaking

1731
01:25:46,040 --> 01:25:49,560
Speaker 2: his silence to the press and giving an official.

1732
01:25:49,240 --> 01:25:51,439
Speaker 1: Statement about these are the words he thought would work,

1733
01:25:51,880 --> 01:25:52,640
Speaker 1: So tuck you.

1734
01:25:53,000 --> 01:25:58,320
Speaker 2: Yes, it's so crazy, And now I told you that

1735
01:25:58,960 --> 01:26:02,439
Speaker 2: the way I realized he was guilty.

1736
01:26:02,640 --> 01:26:08,120
Speaker 1: Tell me I had been watching it was the last

1737
01:26:08,160 --> 01:26:09,960
Speaker 1: season of Breaking Bad. I'm pretty sure it was.

1738
01:26:10,040 --> 01:26:13,559
Speaker 2: Last season, and it was right the end where everything's

1739
01:26:13,600 --> 01:26:15,559
Speaker 2: going crazy and Walt keeps having to leave, and then

1740
01:26:15,600 --> 01:26:17,439
Speaker 2: he comes back to the family and you know, his

1741
01:26:17,520 --> 01:26:21,760
Speaker 2: wife's like, what the fuck did and he was always.

1742
01:26:21,520 --> 01:26:25,080
Speaker 1: Lying, And there was a part where he is trying

1743
01:26:25,160 --> 01:26:25,519
Speaker 1: to you know.

1744
01:26:25,560 --> 01:26:27,080
Speaker 2: The thing where he would always make breakfast, so he

1745
01:26:27,160 --> 01:26:29,160
Speaker 2: was trying to make breakfast and look, I'm making breakfast

1746
01:26:29,200 --> 01:26:33,560
Speaker 2: pancakes everybody, and he is as I think, either his

1747
01:26:33,640 --> 01:26:35,360
Speaker 2: son or his wife are trying to talk to him,

1748
01:26:35,400 --> 01:26:38,760
Speaker 2: and he's opening these doors and kind of going what no, yes,

1749
01:26:38,880 --> 01:26:41,960
Speaker 2: of course, and like keeps fucking with the cupboards and

1750
01:26:42,160 --> 01:26:45,320
Speaker 2: doing stuff while answering questions and like trying to pretend

1751
01:26:45,400 --> 01:26:47,400
Speaker 2: to think, but then doing stuff with the cupboards. There

1752
01:26:47,520 --> 01:26:51,280
Speaker 2: is an almost exact scene in the staircase where Michael

1753
01:26:51,320 --> 01:26:54,640
Speaker 2: Peterson is in the kitchen and they're like asking him

1754
01:26:54,680 --> 01:26:59,120
Speaker 2: some really kind of crucial, you know things, and he

1755
01:26:59,439 --> 01:27:03,280
Speaker 2: is doing Walt exactly from Breaking Bad, where it's like

1756
01:27:03,720 --> 01:27:06,559
Speaker 2: it was such a mirror thing where I was like, whoa,

1757
01:27:06,720 --> 01:27:08,120
Speaker 2: he's totally lying.

1758
01:27:08,600 --> 01:27:12,160
Speaker 1: It was Jonathan's exact same thing. Cranston watched that. I wonder,

1759
01:27:12,280 --> 01:27:15,800
Speaker 1: Brian Kranston, that's what I meant. Brian Cranston watched that.

1760
01:27:15,840 --> 01:27:19,519
Speaker 1: I'm like Jonathan Overholt. Listen, there's a Jonathan Cranston out there.

1761
01:27:19,560 --> 01:27:20,360
Speaker 1: I bet you anything.

1762
01:27:20,840 --> 01:27:22,720
Speaker 2: You went to high school with him, you loved him.

1763
01:27:22,800 --> 01:27:24,960
Speaker 2: Right now, you want to know if I watched Breaking Back.

1764
01:27:24,880 --> 01:27:29,280
Speaker 1: I got meth from him. That's fucking crazy, I know.

1765
01:27:29,920 --> 01:27:31,760
Speaker 2: I just got this weird chill where I was like, oh,

1766
01:27:32,920 --> 01:27:35,519
Speaker 2: Brian Cranston made that acting choice because that's what it

1767
01:27:35,600 --> 01:27:36,240
Speaker 2: looks like when you.

1768
01:27:36,360 --> 01:27:40,000
Speaker 1: Lie and when you're trying to make it seem casual

1769
01:27:40,360 --> 01:27:44,560
Speaker 1: and to give yourself time to answer yea, because you

1770
01:27:44,680 --> 01:27:47,360
Speaker 1: look like you're focused on something else yep, and you're not.

1771
01:27:47,560 --> 01:27:50,479
Speaker 1: I'm so distracted by pancakes. I'm in the middle of us.

1772
01:27:51,520 --> 01:27:55,240
Speaker 1: What's that. Yes, it's like the weirdest ah. And for me,

1773
01:27:55,360 --> 01:27:57,040
Speaker 1: I was like, that's it. It's over.

1774
01:27:57,160 --> 01:27:59,120
Speaker 2: If I was on the jury, I'd be like, full on,

1775
01:27:59,640 --> 01:28:04,960
Speaker 2: full on death penalty. Well, at the end of My

1776
01:28:05,080 --> 01:28:06,160
Speaker 2: American Justice.

1777
01:28:05,960 --> 01:28:09,880
Speaker 1: Your favorite, my favorite American does favorite hour of TV

1778
01:28:09,960 --> 01:28:10,320
Speaker 1: show ever.

1779
01:28:11,439 --> 01:28:14,320
Speaker 2: Thank you, Bo Curtis for your service to us as

1780
01:28:15,040 --> 01:28:17,160
Speaker 2: true crime listeners and watchers.

1781
01:28:17,920 --> 01:28:21,040
Speaker 1: You don't know how much you may do us. He

1782
01:28:22,160 --> 01:28:24,400
Speaker 1: Bill Curtis, Do you think he does? Oh?

1783
01:28:25,120 --> 01:28:28,080
Speaker 2: Now he know, Yeah, I don't know. I don't think

1784
01:28:28,160 --> 01:28:31,200
Speaker 2: he could possibly understand how much we love him.

1785
01:28:31,360 --> 01:28:31,559
Speaker 1: Yeah.

1786
01:28:32,000 --> 01:28:36,080
Speaker 2: As a remember in the very beginning, the very first

1787
01:28:36,160 --> 01:28:39,080
Speaker 2: live show we did was that show.

1788
01:28:38,920 --> 01:28:41,920
Speaker 1: In Chicago that was for the Podcast Festival. They knew

1789
01:28:41,960 --> 01:28:42,599
Speaker 1: Bill Curtis.

1790
01:28:42,840 --> 01:28:45,519
Speaker 2: Somebody said that they might be able to get us

1791
01:28:45,680 --> 01:28:48,639
Speaker 2: a Bill Curtis walk on, and we were like, oh

1792
01:28:48,760 --> 01:28:49,080
Speaker 2: my god.

1793
01:28:49,200 --> 01:28:51,160
Speaker 1: It was like we were so excited for so long.

1794
01:28:51,280 --> 01:28:54,120
Speaker 1: But Bill Curtis, our lord and savior. He was he

1795
01:28:54,240 --> 01:28:54,639
Speaker 1: was busy.

1796
01:28:54,880 --> 01:28:59,000
Speaker 2: Anyhow, at the end of This American Justice, my television

1797
01:28:59,040 --> 01:29:02,400
Speaker 2: show that I produce, there's a jail house interview with

1798
01:29:02,439 --> 01:29:07,240
Speaker 2: Michael Peterson, and in it he says, I'm in here,

1799
01:29:07,479 --> 01:29:10,240
Speaker 2: I'm as free as I would be out there. And

1800
01:29:10,439 --> 01:29:15,600
Speaker 2: to me, that's that thing of like the truly psychotic

1801
01:29:15,800 --> 01:29:19,280
Speaker 2: where he's basically saying, you haven't gotten me, like you

1802
01:29:19,720 --> 01:29:21,840
Speaker 2: can do anything you want, but you haven't gotten me.

1803
01:29:22,000 --> 01:29:24,360
Speaker 1: It's also like this the system is so messed up

1804
01:29:24,439 --> 01:29:27,200
Speaker 1: outside of here, like the government in your life and stuff,

1805
01:29:27,240 --> 01:29:29,320
Speaker 1: it's the same as in here. One really instead of

1806
01:29:29,360 --> 01:29:32,200
Speaker 1: being like I'm in here because I killed my wife, right.

1807
01:29:32,320 --> 01:29:35,519
Speaker 2: Or I'm in here because of a huge miscarriage of justice,

1808
01:29:35,720 --> 01:29:39,040
Speaker 2: please do something, there's a camera like, he's okay with it.

1809
01:29:39,240 --> 01:29:40,680
Speaker 2: I'm innocent, I'm innocent, I.

1810
01:29:41,040 --> 01:29:43,320
Speaker 1: Didn't kill her. None of that's happening.

1811
01:29:43,400 --> 01:29:47,240
Speaker 2: He's like, look what your life He basically is trying

1812
01:29:47,280 --> 01:29:51,519
Speaker 2: to say some bullshit theory of like you know, whether

1813
01:29:51,600 --> 01:29:53,360
Speaker 2: your life is heaving or hell, it's all in your mind,

1814
01:29:53,439 --> 01:29:56,880
Speaker 2: and he's like at peace with it. He's yes, Basically,

1815
01:29:56,920 --> 01:30:00,200
Speaker 2: he goes, I'm not saying I like jail obviously, but like,

1816
01:30:00,600 --> 01:30:04,280
Speaker 2: but it's this thing where to me, it's what it

1817
01:30:04,439 --> 01:30:07,400
Speaker 2: is about Michael Peterson, which is to me, what's fascinating

1818
01:30:07,439 --> 01:30:10,880
Speaker 2: about killers and psychopaths and all those people.

1819
01:30:11,160 --> 01:30:14,519
Speaker 1: Where they have they have to do it, they have

1820
01:30:14,680 --> 01:30:17,479
Speaker 1: to win. They can't not say that thing.

1821
01:30:17,600 --> 01:30:19,839
Speaker 2: So even if it's going to make them look even guiltier,

1822
01:30:20,880 --> 01:30:24,680
Speaker 2: that's his emma that he has to tell you he

1823
01:30:24,760 --> 01:30:27,439
Speaker 2: didn't get me. Yes, I'm wearing this jail outfit. Yes

1824
01:30:27,479 --> 01:30:29,960
Speaker 2: I'm in here, but but no I'm actually free, right,

1825
01:30:30,080 --> 01:30:31,200
Speaker 2: so you know, or.

1826
01:30:31,200 --> 01:30:34,519
Speaker 1: Almost this like he thinks of himself as this beautiful

1827
01:30:34,640 --> 01:30:38,280
Speaker 1: miss miscarriage of justice. Yeah, and this like he's a martyr.

1828
01:30:38,479 --> 01:30:42,040
Speaker 1: He's a martyr. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And it's like, dude,

1829
01:30:42,080 --> 01:30:45,800
Speaker 1: this isn't that your wife is dead? Right, there's no

1830
01:30:45,960 --> 01:30:46,479
Speaker 1: talk of her.

1831
01:30:46,880 --> 01:30:53,519
Speaker 2: Yeah I know, I know, but that American Justice was

1832
01:30:54,600 --> 01:30:57,400
Speaker 2: made in like two thousand and four or five, so

1833
01:30:57,479 --> 01:31:00,479
Speaker 2: they had no idea that this story continues is for

1834
01:31:00,680 --> 01:31:02,040
Speaker 2: quite some time after.

1835
01:31:02,280 --> 01:31:04,880
Speaker 1: Well, that's what's funny about this this a novel idea

1836
01:31:05,000 --> 01:31:07,280
Speaker 1: episode of Forensic Files, which you can watch on YouTube,

1837
01:31:07,920 --> 01:31:11,400
Speaker 1: is that I think that they get so of course

1838
01:31:11,439 --> 01:31:15,120
Speaker 1: it's before we find out all of these issues around it,

1839
01:31:15,600 --> 01:31:19,519
Speaker 1: and our friend Dirty Dwayne is in it, like being

1840
01:31:19,600 --> 01:31:23,040
Speaker 1: interviewed as the guy who solved the case. Yes, and

1841
01:31:23,200 --> 01:31:25,800
Speaker 1: so that's problematic, but I think, really if you ignore that,

1842
01:31:26,160 --> 01:31:29,800
Speaker 1: I think that that episode gets it correct. The whole

1843
01:31:29,880 --> 01:31:34,320
Speaker 1: thing is correct. It's just the shit that happens afterwards

1844
01:31:34,400 --> 01:31:37,400
Speaker 1: is problematic. So it's so funny that this like dated

1845
01:31:37,479 --> 01:31:43,120
Speaker 1: Forensic Files without the uh you know, fucking addendums and shit. Yeah,

1846
01:31:43,680 --> 01:31:47,280
Speaker 1: I think it's correct. I do too. I mean, but

1847
01:31:47,400 --> 01:31:49,719
Speaker 1: it doesn't really well to show you exactly why he's guilty,

1848
01:31:50,520 --> 01:31:52,840
Speaker 1: and then so much shit comes out later. That whole

1849
01:31:53,479 --> 01:31:57,439
Speaker 1: thing was like what is real? Nothing?

1850
01:31:58,600 --> 01:32:04,720
Speaker 2: I mean, blood spatter evidence experts are fraudulent to the

1851
01:32:04,840 --> 01:32:06,519
Speaker 2: core where it's not even a real thing.

1852
01:32:06,600 --> 01:32:08,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, you can't even you can't even rely on them.

1853
01:32:09,160 --> 01:32:10,040
Speaker 1: Who can you rely on?

1854
01:32:10,240 --> 01:32:12,720
Speaker 2: Whoever the other person is? That's made up there specialty

1855
01:32:12,840 --> 01:32:14,639
Speaker 2: of like no, no, no, I did this in my basement.

1856
01:32:14,840 --> 01:32:17,040
Speaker 1: Don't worry. I tested out on myself. We had a

1857
01:32:17,080 --> 01:32:22,840
Speaker 1: great time. Here's the video. We laughed, we loved. Well. Shit,

1858
01:32:23,040 --> 01:32:28,679
Speaker 1: that's fucking Michael. The Murder of Kathleen Peterson by Michael Peterson.

1859
01:32:29,200 --> 01:32:31,720
Speaker 2: And in Steven's timeline that I was reading off of,

1860
01:32:32,040 --> 01:32:36,639
Speaker 2: he said that those French documentarians have another as yet

1861
01:32:36,720 --> 01:32:39,960
Speaker 2: to be released as of December twenty seventeen.

1862
01:32:39,640 --> 01:32:41,080
Speaker 1: But they have a third.

1863
01:32:41,520 --> 01:32:44,200
Speaker 4: Yeah, they're working on a third documentary because he was

1864
01:32:44,320 --> 01:32:45,559
Speaker 4: released this year.

1865
01:32:46,200 --> 01:32:49,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, he got so. He did an Alfred plea, which

1866
01:32:49,200 --> 01:32:52,920
Speaker 1: we know from the West Memphis. Three basically says that

1867
01:32:53,240 --> 01:32:56,240
Speaker 1: you know that the state has enough to convict you.

1868
01:32:56,560 --> 01:32:59,880
Speaker 1: But so you're you're agreeing that they have enough to

1869
01:33:00,040 --> 01:33:02,960
Speaker 1: convict you, but you didn't. You're still saying you're not guilty. Yeah,

1870
01:33:03,280 --> 01:33:07,240
Speaker 1: you're not pleading guilty. Right, Yeah, So he's out now.

1871
01:33:07,520 --> 01:33:11,280
Speaker 1: Yeah he had a time served situation, right, which one

1872
01:33:11,280 --> 01:33:15,840
Speaker 1: don't need to get into. Oh right bye, no, no, no, no,

1873
01:33:16,040 --> 01:33:19,160
Speaker 1: I just mean like he served eighty six months and

1874
01:33:19,320 --> 01:33:22,640
Speaker 1: so now and it's concurrent with them.

1875
01:33:23,000 --> 01:33:25,720
Speaker 2: Yeah, all of the the way he gets out and

1876
01:33:26,280 --> 01:33:29,240
Speaker 2: gets bonds and in between shit and all that.

1877
01:33:29,760 --> 01:33:30,680
Speaker 1: Him going in and out of.

1878
01:33:30,680 --> 01:33:33,919
Speaker 2: Jail is like imagine if that was a black man, Oh,

1879
01:33:34,000 --> 01:33:36,880
Speaker 2: you would have never seen that person again. Yeah, that

1880
01:33:37,320 --> 01:33:40,000
Speaker 2: the way this keyps just getting entertained, because this does

1881
01:33:40,160 --> 01:33:43,519
Speaker 2: happen to other people when it's like oh yeah this

1882
01:33:43,720 --> 01:33:46,760
Speaker 2: all of this has to get thrown out, and they

1883
01:33:46,800 --> 01:33:49,800
Speaker 2: don't teately throw up a bond and like hey let's

1884
01:33:49,840 --> 01:33:50,960
Speaker 2: get this person out of h.

1885
01:33:51,000 --> 01:33:54,559
Speaker 1: Hey this blood spatter. Analyis has lied in the thirty

1886
01:33:54,600 --> 01:33:56,760
Speaker 1: four cases. I bet he's lied in these other ones

1887
01:33:56,760 --> 01:33:58,680
Speaker 1: as well. No, it doesn't turn around like that, It

1888
01:33:58,760 --> 01:34:02,120
Speaker 1: doesn't at all. I wonder what Christmas is like with

1889
01:34:02,280 --> 01:34:05,439
Speaker 1: fucking Michael Peterson. What do you think this Christmas is

1890
01:34:05,479 --> 01:34:07,240
Speaker 1: going to be like for everyone.

1891
01:34:07,640 --> 01:34:10,639
Speaker 2: Well, so with the last so the second addendum French

1892
01:34:10,760 --> 01:34:16,800
Speaker 2: documentary The Staircase two Electric Bugloo, I have to say

1893
01:34:16,800 --> 01:34:21,320
Speaker 2: it every time, uh, In that one one of the daughters,

1894
01:34:22,000 --> 01:34:23,679
Speaker 2: I kind of like that we're not naming their names

1895
01:34:23,680 --> 01:34:27,360
Speaker 2: because I feel like they are they let them live

1896
01:34:27,400 --> 01:34:30,320
Speaker 2: their lives and also just they're they're really kind of

1897
01:34:30,400 --> 01:34:31,679
Speaker 2: the subject of this documentary.

1898
01:34:31,800 --> 01:34:35,960
Speaker 1: It's like it's so much pain for them. It's been

1899
01:34:36,080 --> 01:34:39,040
Speaker 1: so horrible for them. Oh the whole way. I almost

1900
01:34:39,080 --> 01:34:41,040
Speaker 1: want to go like, if you need to fight and

1901
01:34:41,120 --> 01:34:45,680
Speaker 1: believe that, please do that, because yes, because it just

1902
01:34:45,800 --> 01:34:49,719
Speaker 1: sucks that their other sister is on the other side.

1903
01:34:50,120 --> 01:34:51,200
Speaker 1: You know that they're fighting.

1904
01:34:51,280 --> 01:34:54,400
Speaker 2: The part two, one of the sisters no longer is

1905
01:34:54,479 --> 01:34:57,240
Speaker 2: speaking out for Michael Peterson.

1906
01:34:57,320 --> 01:35:04,320
Speaker 1: Okay, uh, Well, the the daughter Caitlyn, Kathleen's actual biological daughter,

1907
01:35:05,160 --> 01:35:10,600
Speaker 1: said that when she saw the autopsy, there's like this

1908
01:35:10,760 --> 01:35:14,960
Speaker 1: beautiful quote by her that's somewhere here says, the only

1909
01:35:15,040 --> 01:35:17,479
Speaker 1: thing I have to say is that about the trial

1910
01:35:17,640 --> 01:35:20,519
Speaker 1: and all the subsequent fallout is that if there was

1911
01:35:20,600 --> 01:35:22,920
Speaker 1: any closure to possibly come from all of this, it

1912
01:35:23,000 --> 01:35:26,160
Speaker 1: came after sitting through the entire trial and listening day

1913
01:35:26,200 --> 01:35:28,600
Speaker 1: after day to all the evidence on both sides, and

1914
01:35:28,720 --> 01:35:31,200
Speaker 1: after the closing arguments, when all was said and done,

1915
01:35:31,360 --> 01:35:34,040
Speaker 1: I felt confident that I knew what happened. I knew

1916
01:35:34,080 --> 01:35:36,320
Speaker 1: what happened to my mom. Well, there's no true closure

1917
01:35:36,360 --> 01:35:38,160
Speaker 1: that can ever come from an event like this for

1918
01:35:38,320 --> 01:35:40,680
Speaker 1: a lossess deep. I was ready to walk away and

1919
01:35:40,760 --> 01:35:45,760
Speaker 1: start moving forward with my life. And that's Caitlyn Note

1920
01:35:45,840 --> 01:35:50,080
Speaker 1: thinking that Michael Peterson killed her mother, right, Yeah, so

1921
01:35:50,240 --> 01:35:52,800
Speaker 1: sad and not feeling caught up that.

1922
01:35:53,720 --> 01:35:57,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, her stepfather was also being persecuted, right, She just

1923
01:35:57,920 --> 01:35:59,080
Speaker 2: was kind of like, I can't.

1924
01:35:59,120 --> 01:36:03,600
Speaker 1: I need to walk away. Yeah, it's just awful, it is.

1925
01:36:03,880 --> 01:36:07,200
Speaker 1: It's intense. I'm glad we did it together. Yeah.

1926
01:36:11,760 --> 01:36:14,439
Speaker 3: Okay, we're back. Yeah, Karen, do you want to read

1927
01:36:14,520 --> 01:36:15,120
Speaker 3: us the updates?

1928
01:36:15,200 --> 01:36:17,479
Speaker 1: I will do the updates for this part of the story.

1929
01:36:17,760 --> 01:36:18,040
Speaker 3: Okay.

1930
01:36:18,400 --> 01:36:22,080
Speaker 2: So Michael Peterson sold the house that Kathleen died in.

1931
01:36:22,640 --> 01:36:25,679
Speaker 2: He still lives in Durham. He lived with his ex wife,

1932
01:36:25,720 --> 01:36:29,200
Speaker 2: Patricia for two years. She unfortunately died of a heart attack.

1933
01:36:29,840 --> 01:36:31,639
Speaker 2: He now lives in a ground floor apartment.

1934
01:36:31,800 --> 01:36:33,320
Speaker 3: What's that information about.

1935
01:36:33,200 --> 01:36:36,160
Speaker 2: Well, because it's a ground floor apartment with no stairs,

1936
01:36:36,800 --> 01:36:40,360
Speaker 2: and it's an important accommodation. According to his defense attorney

1937
01:36:40,479 --> 01:36:42,960
Speaker 2: David Rudolph, who we have spoken to on this show

1938
01:36:43,640 --> 01:36:46,000
Speaker 2: and he talked about that is at his recent crime

1939
01:36:46,080 --> 01:36:49,360
Speaker 2: con experience, that that was a stipulation of where Michael.

1940
01:36:49,080 --> 01:36:50,240
Speaker 1: Peterson has to live.

1941
01:36:50,560 --> 01:36:51,599
Speaker 3: That's so fucked up.

1942
01:36:51,760 --> 01:36:52,639
Speaker 1: It's really weird.

1943
01:36:52,680 --> 01:36:54,960
Speaker 2: But it's also that thing where I mean, we've talked

1944
01:36:54,960 --> 01:36:58,320
Speaker 2: about it. But the idea that in this story, when

1945
01:36:58,360 --> 01:37:01,080
Speaker 2: it comes to light that this an accident happened in

1946
01:37:01,200 --> 01:37:03,760
Speaker 2: Germany where he was there and another woman died by

1947
01:37:03,800 --> 01:37:04,960
Speaker 2: falling down the stairs.

1948
01:37:04,960 --> 01:37:08,000
Speaker 3: That doesn't happen once in someone's life, let alone twice.

1949
01:37:08,160 --> 01:37:11,120
Speaker 2: I feel like the judgmental part of me is just like,

1950
01:37:11,320 --> 01:37:14,160
Speaker 2: we're done here, yeah, and it's kind of a satisfying thing.

1951
01:37:14,200 --> 01:37:14,280
Speaker 5: Now.

1952
01:37:14,320 --> 01:37:16,680
Speaker 1: That's the logical part of you, not the judgmental part

1953
01:37:16,720 --> 01:37:20,000
Speaker 1: of it, right it is. What I don't understand is

1954
01:37:20,040 --> 01:37:23,360
Speaker 1: how you haven't watched the fucking twenty twenty two HBO

1955
01:37:23,479 --> 01:37:24,479
Speaker 1: Max mini series.

1956
01:37:24,920 --> 01:37:27,880
Speaker 3: I didn't do the scripto Dairscase. I know it's really good.

1957
01:37:27,960 --> 01:37:30,519
Speaker 1: It's Tony Colette and you knew this are calling calling

1958
01:37:30,600 --> 01:37:33,519
Speaker 1: for they're both so incredible. Yeah, there is a really

1959
01:37:34,160 --> 01:37:37,280
Speaker 1: upsetting sex scene in it that I won't tell you.

1960
01:37:37,560 --> 01:37:39,280
Speaker 3: Well, I'm sold you have to watch it.

1961
01:37:39,360 --> 01:37:41,840
Speaker 1: It's like, it's like you should have said that are weird.

1962
01:37:42,520 --> 01:37:45,400
Speaker 1: It's like a weird thing that you're like, how did

1963
01:37:45,439 --> 01:37:48,320
Speaker 1: they get these actors to do that? Because I would

1964
01:37:48,360 --> 01:37:50,600
Speaker 1: have been like, I'm out actors love stuff like that.

1965
01:37:50,680 --> 01:37:53,200
Speaker 1: It's like, i'll tell you after this, I won't say it.

1966
01:37:53,439 --> 01:37:56,599
Speaker 2: Oh okay, Well, now it's time to get into good

1967
01:37:56,640 --> 01:37:58,160
Speaker 2: things of the week, a thing we used to do

1968
01:37:58,280 --> 01:37:58,760
Speaker 2: on this show.

1969
01:37:59,400 --> 01:38:01,640
Speaker 3: We used to have good things to talk about, and

1970
01:38:01,840 --> 01:38:02,799
Speaker 3: we used to force.

1971
01:38:02,600 --> 01:38:13,400
Speaker 1: Ourselves to really silver lining this thing. Should we say

1972
01:38:13,439 --> 01:38:16,479
Speaker 1: we're happy about this week, go for it? Should we

1973
01:38:17,439 --> 01:38:21,360
Speaker 1: should it be like something boring or should it be

1974
01:38:21,479 --> 01:38:24,400
Speaker 1: like thanks everyone? Definitely boring? Tried to do in a

1975
01:38:24,600 --> 01:38:27,479
Speaker 1: very flat, okay voice. Well, I was just thinking about

1976
01:38:27,760 --> 01:38:31,080
Speaker 1: how different both of our lives were before we started

1977
01:38:31,120 --> 01:38:33,640
Speaker 1: this podcast, or when we started this podcast, and when

1978
01:38:33,680 --> 01:38:36,519
Speaker 1: we kind of came together at the Halloween party and

1979
01:38:36,560 --> 01:38:40,280
Speaker 1: I lied about having watched The Staircase because it sounded right,

1980
01:38:41,920 --> 01:38:44,720
Speaker 1: and just how grateful I am from this pod that

1981
01:38:45,040 --> 01:38:47,439
Speaker 1: by this podcast and the listeners and the community, and

1982
01:38:47,640 --> 01:38:50,320
Speaker 1: I mean it was kind of in a rough we

1983
01:38:50,400 --> 01:38:52,080
Speaker 1: think we were both kind of in different reasons and

1984
01:38:52,240 --> 01:38:54,600
Speaker 1: rough points of our lives and going through some of

1985
01:38:54,640 --> 01:38:58,960
Speaker 1: our own shit. And this podcast has changed that completely

1986
01:38:59,040 --> 01:39:01,240
Speaker 1: and made my life into the beautiful fucking thing that

1987
01:39:01,320 --> 01:39:06,240
Speaker 1: I'm so happy for and grateful for. And you know,

1988
01:39:06,640 --> 01:39:09,200
Speaker 1: if all you ever do is a hundred episodes, this

1989
01:39:09,400 --> 01:39:12,439
Speaker 1: is then one of the highlights of my life for real,

1990
01:39:12,760 --> 01:39:18,040
Speaker 1: like one it feels like a dream. It's so true.

1991
01:39:18,400 --> 01:39:21,880
Speaker 1: It's been insane. I love you very much. I love

1992
01:39:21,960 --> 01:39:25,000
Speaker 1: you too, Karen. And I love that you thought to

1993
01:39:25,120 --> 01:39:27,479
Speaker 1: do this and made me come to your house to

1994
01:39:27,560 --> 01:39:28,920
Speaker 1: do it. I love that you said okay.

1995
01:39:30,840 --> 01:39:32,040
Speaker 2: But it was one of those things where it was

1996
01:39:32,120 --> 01:39:34,920
Speaker 2: just like, in starting to do it, it was just like,

1997
01:39:35,160 --> 01:39:38,680
Speaker 2: oh yeah, this is like, even if it's just for us,

1998
01:39:39,520 --> 01:39:40,559
Speaker 2: it's so much fun.

1999
01:39:41,160 --> 01:39:43,280
Speaker 1: That conversation we just had about the staircase, even when

2000
01:39:43,280 --> 01:39:45,599
Speaker 1: we were arguing about certain things, was so much fun.

2001
01:39:45,840 --> 01:39:47,639
Speaker 1: That's all I want to do. I know, it's the best.

2002
01:39:47,720 --> 01:39:48,559
Speaker 1: It's so much fun.

2003
01:39:48,680 --> 01:39:51,479
Speaker 2: But also because and sometimes it's been I will say this,

2004
01:39:52,160 --> 01:39:57,200
Speaker 2: I'm I totally agree and every I mean, that's part

2005
01:39:57,240 --> 01:40:00,479
Speaker 2: of the fun for me has been this variance of

2006
01:40:00,960 --> 01:40:04,000
Speaker 2: basically kind of standing in the center of an explosion

2007
01:40:04,120 --> 01:40:08,040
Speaker 2: with you, yeah, and getting through it with you and

2008
01:40:08,520 --> 01:40:09,560
Speaker 2: like truly.

2009
01:40:09,320 --> 01:40:11,040
Speaker 1: Growing with you. I feel like my God.

2010
01:40:12,040 --> 01:40:14,200
Speaker 2: But there have been times where, you know, when we

2011
01:40:14,240 --> 01:40:16,439
Speaker 2: started out, we said whatever the fuck we wanted because

2012
01:40:16,760 --> 01:40:20,240
Speaker 2: we were just in your house. And then you know,

2013
01:40:20,320 --> 01:40:22,519
Speaker 2: of course, then we went through like a teenage phase

2014
01:40:22,560 --> 01:40:25,040
Speaker 2: where we got super self conscious because people started going,

2015
01:40:25,360 --> 01:40:27,679
Speaker 2: you're saying this word wrong, and you're doing that wrong,

2016
01:40:27,760 --> 01:40:29,519
Speaker 2: and you have the wrong thoughts and you have the

2017
01:40:29,520 --> 01:40:31,519
Speaker 2: wrong idea. We're like, you have to do this right, yes,

2018
01:40:31,640 --> 01:40:33,400
Speaker 2: and then we got real worried about what if we

2019
01:40:33,560 --> 01:40:35,960
Speaker 2: lose people or what if we you know, and there's

2020
01:40:36,040 --> 01:40:39,800
Speaker 2: just all it's like the natural growth process. And now,

2021
01:40:40,200 --> 01:40:43,160
Speaker 2: so that conversation we just had felt so much more

2022
01:40:43,320 --> 01:40:46,439
Speaker 2: like one of the first episodes, because of course, in

2023
01:40:46,560 --> 01:40:49,439
Speaker 2: my mind, I'm going, we can't say that that's libel,

2024
01:40:49,640 --> 01:40:52,200
Speaker 2: that's whatever we're talking. We're putting words in someone's mouth.

2025
01:40:52,479 --> 01:40:56,280
Speaker 2: But overall, that's the point of this podcast. And I

2026
01:40:56,400 --> 01:41:00,519
Speaker 2: said this at the Kansas City show, I believe was

2027
01:41:01,160 --> 01:41:04,000
Speaker 2: we're not trying to be forty eight hours. We're sitting

2028
01:41:04,040 --> 01:41:06,679
Speaker 2: on the couch watching forty eight hours, talking about forty

2029
01:41:07,240 --> 01:41:07,720
Speaker 2: to each other.

2030
01:41:07,960 --> 01:41:08,200
Speaker 1: Yeah.

2031
01:41:08,400 --> 01:41:11,960
Speaker 2: And we've never wanted to be broad you know, professional

2032
01:41:12,040 --> 01:41:16,519
Speaker 2: broadcasters or newscasters or anything. We just want to talk

2033
01:41:16,560 --> 01:41:18,720
Speaker 2: about the thing that freaks us out so much, right

2034
01:41:18,920 --> 01:41:20,320
Speaker 2: and fascinates.

2035
01:41:19,800 --> 01:41:23,280
Speaker 1: Us so much. And we're sitting in this room, this

2036
01:41:23,520 --> 01:41:28,040
Speaker 1: loft pod loft, surrounded by aren't made by these incredible

2037
01:41:28,080 --> 01:41:33,080
Speaker 1: people who we have somehow fucking touched in a way.

2038
01:41:33,439 --> 01:41:36,000
Speaker 1: And well, because we have so much in common with Right,

2039
01:41:36,120 --> 01:41:38,680
Speaker 1: And I'm just honored. I'm honored, and I'm amazed, and

2040
01:41:39,120 --> 01:41:42,240
Speaker 1: thank you Steven too for being here. Yeah, it's just

2041
01:41:43,240 --> 01:41:46,240
Speaker 1: I feel really lucky. It's weird. We are two of

2042
01:41:46,320 --> 01:41:49,600
Speaker 1: the luckiest people. I can't believe for sure. Yeah, and

2043
01:41:50,920 --> 01:41:53,439
Speaker 1: we're filled with ice cream cake, Oh my god.

2044
01:41:53,720 --> 01:41:56,840
Speaker 2: I mean, and for all you guys that have been

2045
01:41:56,960 --> 01:41:59,559
Speaker 2: you know, one of my favorite favorite things is it's

2046
01:41:59,600 --> 01:42:03,200
Speaker 2: sometimes when we meet people at shows and they say

2047
01:42:03,240 --> 01:42:05,960
Speaker 2: I've been listening since the beginning, and then I'll go, oh,

2048
01:42:06,040 --> 01:42:08,120
Speaker 2: you have since the first one, and they'll go, oh, well, no,

2049
01:42:08,240 --> 01:42:09,880
Speaker 2: I mean like I came out in episode five.

2050
01:42:09,960 --> 01:42:11,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, and on that.

2051
01:42:11,479 --> 01:42:13,680
Speaker 2: On the last time we were out, someone said that,

2052
01:42:13,760 --> 01:42:16,120
Speaker 2: and I go from the beginning and she goes, day one.

2053
01:42:16,400 --> 01:42:18,479
Speaker 1: I found you, remember that, Caid. I told us the story.

2054
01:42:18,560 --> 01:42:20,960
Speaker 2: She said, sorry, I don't remember your name, but she said,

2055
01:42:21,439 --> 01:42:23,040
Speaker 2: I opened it. I was in a bad mood. I

2056
01:42:23,160 --> 01:42:27,280
Speaker 2: opened up my you know iTunes podcast, saw the thing

2057
01:42:27,360 --> 01:42:29,479
Speaker 2: and was like, that seems interesting and clicked on it.

2058
01:42:29,640 --> 01:42:31,719
Speaker 1: Yeah, and she was like, at first I hated your voices.

2059
01:42:33,200 --> 01:42:34,880
Speaker 1: That's the other thing, because she said, at first I

2060
01:42:34,920 --> 01:42:36,920
Speaker 1: thought you were both annoying or something. And then I

2061
01:42:36,960 --> 01:42:39,280
Speaker 1: kept listening and I loved it, and I couldn't stop listening. Yeah,

2062
01:42:39,320 --> 01:42:41,240
Speaker 1: it is cool. And we read all of the notes

2063
01:42:41,320 --> 01:42:44,040
Speaker 1: and all of the messages on Twitter and all. I mean,

2064
01:42:44,120 --> 01:42:46,760
Speaker 1: it's just it doesn't it doesn't make any sense. My

2065
01:42:46,880 --> 01:42:51,479
Speaker 1: mind is fucking blown. We're both you guys have changed

2066
01:42:51,520 --> 01:42:53,720
Speaker 1: our lives. Thank you so fucking much.

2067
01:42:53,920 --> 01:42:56,120
Speaker 2: We love it. We love it, We love you. One

2068
01:42:56,240 --> 01:42:59,240
Speaker 2: hundred episodes so fun Thank you for being here with us. Yeah,

2069
01:42:59,360 --> 01:43:00,879
Speaker 2: we're very grateful.

2070
01:43:01,040 --> 01:43:08,759
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's so funny, like one hundred episodes. One hundred episodes,

2071
01:43:09,640 --> 01:43:10,960
Speaker 1: and we kind of thought that was it.

2072
01:43:11,120 --> 01:43:11,719
Speaker 3: We were peaking.

2073
01:43:11,920 --> 01:43:14,040
Speaker 1: I mean, I was ready to peek and be done

2074
01:43:14,280 --> 01:43:14,880
Speaker 1: for sure.

2075
01:43:15,160 --> 01:43:17,200
Speaker 3: So true, I got my pod left. I wouldn't do

2076
01:43:17,200 --> 01:43:19,240
Speaker 3: a nicer apartment. I mean, what else?

2077
01:43:20,120 --> 01:43:21,280
Speaker 1: What more could we want? Know what?

2078
01:43:21,360 --> 01:43:22,680
Speaker 3: I had air conditioning?

2079
01:43:22,840 --> 01:43:26,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I was out of foreclosure. That's right, and

2080
01:43:26,120 --> 01:43:27,080
Speaker 1: that's all that mattered to me.

2081
01:43:27,280 --> 01:43:29,519
Speaker 3: We made it, we did, and then we got greedy.

2082
01:43:29,960 --> 01:43:32,320
Speaker 2: We made it, and then we got up out of

2083
01:43:32,439 --> 01:43:34,280
Speaker 2: the hole and we said, hey, it's nice up here.

2084
01:43:34,400 --> 01:43:36,080
Speaker 2: We should keep on striving for more.

2085
01:43:36,280 --> 01:43:40,880
Speaker 1: Yeah, and we deserve it. We're good at this. Uh okay,

2086
01:43:41,040 --> 01:43:43,080
Speaker 1: here's I just have to bring back up.

2087
01:43:43,280 --> 01:43:47,240
Speaker 2: How hilarious it is that listener that told us they

2088
01:43:47,280 --> 01:43:49,040
Speaker 2: were listening since the very first episode.

2089
01:43:49,160 --> 01:43:50,919
Speaker 1: They hated our voices at first.

2090
01:43:50,720 --> 01:43:51,720
Speaker 3: But then they got used to.

2091
01:43:51,760 --> 01:43:55,559
Speaker 2: It is the It's the ultimate example of what it's

2092
01:43:55,640 --> 01:43:57,760
Speaker 2: like to have a podcast where someone's telling you they

2093
01:43:57,840 --> 01:44:01,040
Speaker 2: love you, insulting you as much as they can.

2094
01:44:01,160 --> 01:44:04,000
Speaker 3: Well, they'll say, my mom hates you, guys, Yeah, I

2095
01:44:04,240 --> 01:44:04,560
Speaker 3: love you.

2096
01:44:04,840 --> 01:44:05,040
Speaker 1: Yeah.

2097
01:44:05,720 --> 01:44:09,000
Speaker 3: Hey, look my mom mates me too. Listen, look and listen.

2098
01:44:11,920 --> 01:44:15,200
Speaker 1: Okay, well, we can't name this episode the one hundredth episode.

2099
01:44:15,240 --> 01:44:16,559
Speaker 1: We have to name it something more interesting.

2100
01:44:16,720 --> 01:44:19,320
Speaker 2: Yes, and thank god, there's so many choices. For example,

2101
01:44:19,439 --> 01:44:22,040
Speaker 2: you saying ninety nine episodes worth of things when you're

2102
01:44:22,080 --> 01:44:25,120
Speaker 2: talking about how much you've forgotten, which is so real

2103
01:44:25,360 --> 01:44:26,240
Speaker 2: on this experience.

2104
01:44:26,840 --> 01:44:29,120
Speaker 3: And I wasn't naming in Perry montopause yet that's right.

2105
01:44:29,240 --> 01:44:32,760
Speaker 3: Dessert for dinner, yes, needs to be.

2106
01:44:32,920 --> 01:44:35,439
Speaker 1: Yeah, that was my reward to you. Also, Judith from

2107
01:44:35,640 --> 01:44:37,160
Speaker 1: HR which is when we had our.

2108
01:44:37,040 --> 01:44:40,439
Speaker 3: Headsets hot ams asap you.

2109
01:44:40,520 --> 01:44:44,160
Speaker 2: Got close yep us, Oh, this is it the staircase

2110
01:44:44,200 --> 01:44:45,680
Speaker 2: two electric bogoloo.

2111
01:44:45,439 --> 01:44:47,439
Speaker 3: Talking about part two. We did that a lot had

2112
01:44:47,520 --> 01:44:49,360
Speaker 3: to How about our friend dirty Dwayne.

2113
01:44:49,680 --> 01:44:55,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, that dirty so legendary blood splatter expert actually false. Yeah,

2114
01:44:56,320 --> 01:44:59,200
Speaker 2: to be revealed later that there's no such thing dirty

2115
01:44:59,240 --> 01:45:02,439
Speaker 2: Dwayne Man. All right, But then there's one more surprise.

2116
01:45:02,520 --> 01:45:07,040
Speaker 2: Apparently that's right, because sweet if we get dessert for dinner, okay,

2117
01:45:07,200 --> 01:45:08,080
Speaker 2: Molly's bringing it in.

2118
01:45:09,680 --> 01:45:10,479
Speaker 1: What'd you get out?

2119
01:45:11,280 --> 01:45:12,599
Speaker 3: What is the screen case?

2120
01:45:12,720 --> 01:45:20,519
Speaker 1: Oh? My god, your faces on it? Yes, okay, Mollie

2121
01:45:20,600 --> 01:45:23,599
Speaker 1: just came into the studio with the cutest little cake

2122
01:45:23,760 --> 01:45:27,600
Speaker 1: and it's got the photo from my old apartment, me

2123
01:45:27,720 --> 01:45:30,720
Speaker 1: and Karen on the couch, got my legs up and

2124
01:45:30,840 --> 01:45:32,240
Speaker 1: my month six here.

2125
01:45:32,360 --> 01:45:36,719
Speaker 3: Probably those feet. Blur out. I'm gonna blur out the feet.

2126
01:45:37,720 --> 01:45:38,639
Speaker 3: You don't get free feet.

2127
01:45:38,720 --> 01:45:39,160
Speaker 1: That's right.

2128
01:45:39,600 --> 01:45:42,960
Speaker 2: Those are worth a lot of money on feet dot com. Wow,

2129
01:45:43,080 --> 01:45:46,160
Speaker 2: that's beautiful, Mollie. Thank you so much, Thank you, thank

2130
01:45:46,240 --> 01:45:48,120
Speaker 2: you Stephen for Oh no, I.

2131
01:45:48,160 --> 01:45:50,400
Speaker 3: Took this picture. You're selfie. Yeah, it's a selfie.

2132
01:45:52,040 --> 01:45:54,880
Speaker 1: There it is there, it is all right, we've really

2133
01:45:54,920 --> 01:45:55,160
Speaker 1: done it.

2134
01:45:55,320 --> 01:45:57,600
Speaker 3: Let's yeah. Should we cut it? Yeah, let's do it.

2135
01:45:57,760 --> 01:45:58,560
Speaker 1: How do you want to cut it?

2136
01:45:58,680 --> 01:46:02,600
Speaker 3: Cut my head off, yeah, cut my don't cut your

2137
01:46:02,640 --> 01:46:05,120
Speaker 3: feet off? Straight down the middle.

2138
01:46:05,200 --> 01:46:08,799
Speaker 1: Yeah, okay. Got ice cream cake? So hard? So dangerous?

2139
01:46:09,080 --> 01:46:09,240
Speaker 2: Is it?

2140
01:46:09,320 --> 01:46:12,080
Speaker 3: Gorganzola cherry flavor? You bet?

2141
01:46:12,280 --> 01:46:15,160
Speaker 5: It's actually and thank you to Corey, our set decorator

2142
01:46:15,240 --> 01:46:19,519
Speaker 5: as well. It's chocolate cake with cookies and cream ice cream.

2143
01:46:19,520 --> 01:46:21,679
Speaker 3: Oh that's bloody.

2144
01:46:21,760 --> 01:46:22,240
Speaker 7: I love it.

2145
01:46:23,560 --> 01:46:27,760
Speaker 3: We should just you know what here? Okay, eat your

2146
01:46:28,240 --> 01:46:30,360
Speaker 3: face true face cheers.

2147
01:46:31,160 --> 01:46:35,000
Speaker 1: Yes, the ultimate act of narcissism, eating your own face.

2148
01:46:35,600 --> 01:46:39,400
Speaker 2: Well that is this week's episode of Rewind. It's the

2149
01:46:39,400 --> 01:46:41,960
Speaker 2: one hundredth episode we've rewound.

2150
01:46:42,720 --> 01:46:44,200
Speaker 1: We're going to go back to a better time to

2151
01:46:44,200 --> 01:46:47,360
Speaker 1: say goodbye, when Elvis was still alive. Yeah, and we'll

2152
01:46:47,400 --> 01:46:54,040
Speaker 1: let him say goodbye from twenty seventeen. We want you

2153
01:46:54,080 --> 01:46:56,280
Speaker 1: to stay sexy, and we also want you to don't

2154
01:46:56,360 --> 01:47:00,320
Speaker 1: get murdered. Bye bye, Elvis. Want Cookie All