Speaker 1: I'm off my game today. No, you're not. People are
Speaker 1: going to have to start making better content. I think
Speaker 1: we're gonna be talking about this for a long time.
Speaker 1: When you program for everyone, you program for no one.
Speaker 1: I think it's that we're purpose driven platform like we're
Speaker 1: trying to get to substance. How was that? Are you
Speaker 1: happy with that? This is marketing therapy right now? It
Speaker 1: really is? What's up? I'm Laura Currency and I'm Alexa Kristen.
Speaker 1: Welcome back at Landia. We made it over and out.
Speaker 1: Happy holidays at Landia. Happy holidays everyone. So we're in
Speaker 1: the studio talking about all things content marketing with Linda Holiday,
Speaker 1: CEO and founder of Sitia. Yes, Linda, we've known her
Speaker 1: for a few years now, and I think we've both
Speaker 1: been kind of fascinated with her really interesting background and
Speaker 1: the product that she's created and the company she's created
Speaker 1: is a SAS software as a service company that has
Speaker 1: a very kind of usable interface for what I would
Speaker 1: say is content marketing in this kind of new media
Speaker 1: and use your interface world. And I think some of
Speaker 1: the insights Linda has been in the space since so
Speaker 1: it's interesting to see how her perspective has evolved as
Speaker 1: obviously technology, new platforms have emerged. I think just in general,
Speaker 1: one of the themes that we've talked about at length
Speaker 1: over the course of this year has really been the
Speaker 1: need to move towards content ecosystems and moving away from
Speaker 1: the idea of campaigns and flight dates and very structural
Speaker 1: channel planning and these like little spikes that go to nothing,
Speaker 1: spikes that go to nothing. And I think she's going
Speaker 1: to talk about some of that stuff. So with that,
Speaker 1: Linda Holiday for the holidays, we'll be right back and
Speaker 1: we're back in the studio. Welcome Linda Holiday, founder and
Speaker 1: CEO of Sidia. Hi, Linda, Hi, great to be here,
Speaker 1: you guys, Thanks for joining. So Linda tell us what
Speaker 1: Sidia is and does. So it's hard to talk about
Speaker 1: what City is without doing a tiny bit of a
Speaker 1: backswing because it's not obvious, but the Internet has kind
Speaker 1: of gone through a face shift. We used to make
Speaker 1: pages and lots of big things and now it's all
Speaker 1: a bunch of small pieces that get reorganized according to
Speaker 1: some kind of intelligence and flow through feeds and streams.
Speaker 1: So City is really a platform that helps big companies
Speaker 1: make that kind of media. So if you're a brand
Speaker 1: new company, you started making that, But if you're an
Speaker 1: older company, you've inherited a lot of like tech dad
Speaker 1: and cms s and things that aren't really well suited
Speaker 1: for these channels. So it's a platform that big companies
Speaker 1: like Ge and Comcast and Viacom used to make media
Speaker 1: that goes across all channels. So sometimes we think of
Speaker 1: ourselves as a shipping container system but for content. So
Speaker 1: you make some once and we make sure we can
Speaker 1: get it to everywhere and that all the metrics are
Speaker 1: standardized and counted and human and intuitive. What was the
Speaker 1: insight too move into a shipping container business for content?
Speaker 1: Um One of the insights was that the format itself
Speaker 1: was getting commoditized. Right. We used to make websites and
Speaker 1: then somebody invented this thing called the laptop, and we're like, what,
Speaker 1: we have to make another one, a smaller one, like
Speaker 1: you couldn't actually put a desktop website on a laptop.
Speaker 1: And then fast forward, we've got a gazillion channels and
Speaker 1: they're all different, and so everybody's running like a million
Speaker 1: teams making format changes, which is a tremendous waste of
Speaker 1: time and money. So that was one insight that the
Speaker 1: format itself was becoming commoditized, so people, different people are
Speaker 1: using Sidia for different things. I remember when we were
Speaker 1: talking to Ross Martin, who's been on the show. When
Speaker 1: I first met him, he actually walked me through like
Speaker 1: the Viacom innovation lab and he was showing me all
Speaker 1: these things that they had done with Cydia, which is
Speaker 1: like kind of a big deal for Viacom At the time.
Speaker 1: I was like, how do we get content out that's
Speaker 1: lightweight and easy and quick and can be modifiable. Um,
Speaker 1: they were using you know, Citia in one level. What
Speaker 1: are the kind of different use cases for Citia that
Speaker 1: you've seen? That's how funny because g was our first
Speaker 1: client and Viacom was our second, and it was literally
Speaker 1: turbines to tattoos because I love that, and so we
Speaker 1: sold it in for content marketing, and content marketing was
Speaker 1: you know, kind of hot then and should be hotter now,
Speaker 1: but back then people were really investing in it, and
Speaker 1: so we found the people who were looking to do
Speaker 1: that kind of convert thought leadership, white papers, a lot
Speaker 1: of the you know, support um content around brand marketing
Speaker 1: and corporate marketing. And then what happened was inside. People
Speaker 1: started to make all the stuff we never thought about, right,
Speaker 1: so HR investor relations training, and we just like watch
Speaker 1: people make these things. And because it really is multi
Speaker 1: purpose content and once you know how to use it,
Speaker 1: it's like power pointer, keynote. Anyone can get in there
Speaker 1: and make stuff. So people did. And now I'd say
Speaker 1: our number one use case still is content marketing, and
Speaker 1: the second use case would be communications, you know, pr
Speaker 1: and so the actual product itself is really like a
Speaker 1: deck that you can swipe through and get content and
Speaker 1: sort of a card like format. Is that accurate? Yes?
Speaker 1: And so another kind of insider observation is that the
Speaker 1: most native motion on a phone is a swipe, not
Speaker 1: a tap, right, So we made swipeable media because that's
Speaker 1: the most ergonomically correct. Like if you think about how
Speaker 1: use the phone, it's like a coffee in one hand
Speaker 1: and the phone and the other. Right. So if that's
Speaker 1: the most natural motion, like what do you what do
Speaker 1: you want to do to get through a lot of
Speaker 1: content fast? And the other kind of insight behind that
Speaker 1: is users know what they want, like we're all really
Speaker 1: great and navigating, and if you give people content that
Speaker 1: they can get through quickly they will find what they want.
Speaker 1: It's actually designed to help users get through a lot
Speaker 1: of content fast. So if you think about how most
Speaker 1: things are now just a feed and it's a column
Speaker 1: and it could be a hundred feet long, and it's
Speaker 1: kind of exhausting. But if you open up like the
Speaker 1: depth or that Z axis, then you also can get
Speaker 1: people to a lot of depth much faster because it's
Speaker 1: actually three dimensional content, so more engagement obviously. Well it's
Speaker 1: it's engaging because we like to you know, kind of
Speaker 1: you know, surf and and brows and try and find
Speaker 1: what we find. And it's also kind of satisfying. There's
Speaker 1: this little like almost worry bead effect to getting through stuff.
Speaker 1: If I started over, I wouldn't have done all of
Speaker 1: that at once, because as a designer, I spent a
Speaker 1: lot of time studying ergonomics and like, it's just not
Speaker 1: healthy to bobble head up and down with your content, right.
Speaker 1: That's not good for your neck, it's not good for
Speaker 1: your eyes. It's better that the content move in your
Speaker 1: head stay straight, right, that's much more human. So I'm like, well,
Speaker 1: let's just do that, and people are like whye to
Speaker 1: it's swipe because it was before Tinder, So yeah, we
Speaker 1: stuck it out. And so now people understand that that's
Speaker 1: actually a really efficient way to get through content. And
Speaker 1: I see things all the time that look like Citia,
Speaker 1: like the UM app Store, the Apple App Store, but
Speaker 1: it's one card thin. I'm like, this is so inefficient.
Speaker 1: You could get through so much more if you could
Speaker 1: actually get to you know, UM app apps for language
Speaker 1: learning and go booba boo bah boop. Right, how old
Speaker 1: is Cidia? How long has it been around? We launched
Speaker 1: in two thousand and twelve, but we were working with publishers,
Speaker 1: and in two thousand and sixteen we switched over to
Speaker 1: corporate customers and ge was our first customer, which we
Speaker 1: launched in UM first quarter sixteen. It's interesting to think
Speaker 1: about how you were starting to develop product based on
Speaker 1: sort of the learned behavior or the evolution of behavior
Speaker 1: for how we interact with technology that's going on what
Speaker 1: seven years ago now, UM, And it's interesting to think
Speaker 1: about how in the current marketplace UM, we're still developing
Speaker 1: one size fits all formats and expecting those to travel
Speaker 1: to you know, different screen sizes or played different viewing environments.
Speaker 1: What have you learned over the last seven years that
Speaker 1: you would share with our audience when thinking about how
Speaker 1: to diversify format and really paying attention to the space
Speaker 1: and behavior that consumers are leading with. I think the
Speaker 1: hardest transition for traditional marketers is to understand that what's
Speaker 1: most important now as relevance. We all grew up in
Speaker 1: an era where we kind of had the mic, right,
Speaker 1: and we said and they listened. You know, ten years ago,
Speaker 1: ninety five percent of media was made by businesses. Now
Speaker 1: it's less than half, right, So we are those of
Speaker 1: us who are trying to put you know, commercial messages
Speaker 1: out in the world are competing with a lot of
Speaker 1: stuff that we didn't used to compete with. And to
Speaker 1: compete in this new tent, you have to be relevant, right,
Speaker 1: So we all cared a lot about reduction values. Me especially,
Speaker 1: I can be a real perfectionist, right. I love storytelling,
Speaker 1: I love the big canvas. I spent a lot of
Speaker 1: my life making television commercials, which are excruciating lee you know, perfectionists.
Speaker 1: But now like that doesn't matter so much. It matters
Speaker 1: more that you get there when the party is going on, right,
Speaker 1: Like attention is a stock market now goes up and
Speaker 1: down so fast. Right, So if you can't make things
Speaker 1: as a as a commercial entity fast enough to get
Speaker 1: in on whatever people are interested in, you're going to
Speaker 1: be irrelevant. So you know, I would say we need
Speaker 1: What we've learned is people have to really dial up
Speaker 1: how fast they jump in and how they find the
Speaker 1: right connection between their products and their content and their
Speaker 1: customers or potential customers interest. Do you see that translate
Speaker 1: in your product, like do you see brands or creatives
Speaker 1: using or publishers using your platform the wrong way? And
Speaker 1: what would you advise in terms of you know, evolving
Speaker 1: content to even just fit within the product you've created.
Speaker 1: I think it is a pretty big learning curve, right.
Speaker 1: I kind of think of it as going from baseball
Speaker 1: to soccer, right, So everybody's on that, on that learning curve.
Speaker 1: Companies like Viacom, of course, that have a lot more
Speaker 1: customer um touch points learn faster right there in a
Speaker 1: lot of social channels, They've got a lot of teams,
Speaker 1: so there's more shared learning. Business to business customers have
Speaker 1: been really good at content marketing for a long time,
Speaker 1: so they actually understand not going right for the jugular immediately,
Speaker 1: but they have to kind of earn some attention and
Speaker 1: credibility by being useful to their customers before they try
Speaker 1: to close a sale, so they are farther ahead in
Speaker 1: some surprising ways. A lot of the traditional you know
Speaker 1: CpG companies are trying to go too far, too fast,
Speaker 1: and they scare their customers. Yeah, you know, what's your
Speaker 1: perspective and what are you hearing from some of the
Speaker 1: kind of big old companies that are really trying to
Speaker 1: transform and how are you helping them do that? With Sidia,
Speaker 1: maybe can sexually as well as you know from the
Speaker 1: executional standpoint on using the interface. So we have B
Speaker 1: two B and B two C customers and they have
Speaker 1: different kinds of challenges. Right, the B two B customers
Speaker 1: have had a lot of attention and they've been able
Speaker 1: to use things like white papers and UM conferences and
Speaker 1: now UM they're just realizing that their customers are also
Speaker 1: in control. When I was in healthcare, we used to say,
Speaker 1: you know, you would go to the doctor, that was
Speaker 1: a healthcare consult. Then all of a sudden, you went
Speaker 1: to the internet. You went to the doctor. You went
Speaker 1: to the internet, that was a healthcare consult That's happened
Speaker 1: to all B two B just recently. So they used
Speaker 1: to control access to their product information and you had
Speaker 1: to like talk to their sales people. And so now
Speaker 1: those sales people walk in if they can get in
Speaker 1: at all, and they can't, Like there's a disaster. That's
Speaker 1: pretty underreported that B two B sales people really can't
Speaker 1: get the FaceTime with their customers they used to. But
Speaker 1: that customer has also done a tremendous amount of research.
Speaker 1: Their procurement people have helped, and when that salesperson walks in,
Speaker 1: it's a firing squad. It's more shark tank than let
Speaker 1: me tell you about our new product. So it's a
Speaker 1: tremendous change, and they're trying to figure out how do
Speaker 1: we put smaller pieces of content? How do we tell
Speaker 1: big stories and small pieces so that we're pushing all
Speaker 1: that relevant information into the places where our customers are
Speaker 1: doing their own, you know, kind of self exploration around
Speaker 1: our products. And that's a really hard transition to make
Speaker 1: because again they have the microphone and now they don't.
Speaker 1: The customer has it. How does your platform as a
Speaker 1: technology solution, how is that kind of either disrupting or
Speaker 1: replacing kind of the standard content management? And I don't
Speaker 1: mean content management systems. But even again, the content management
Speaker 1: philosophy or is it content marketing and advertising are kind
Speaker 1: of converging and right, both of those teams bring something
Speaker 1: different to the marriage. Right, So um, the advertising people
Speaker 1: think in terms of campaigns, and I think now the
Speaker 1: more appropriate mindset is always be publishing. Like our customers
Speaker 1: are always on and we have no idea where they
Speaker 1: are in their product discovery journey, so we have to
Speaker 1: be out there and all these channels all the time.
Speaker 1: So if you put in your head that isn't always
Speaker 1: be publishing model, then you would say, I need a
Speaker 1: platform that supports that kind of behavior from our content
Speaker 1: marketing and our advertising team. So that's what City is.
Speaker 1: But I would say most of our customers still think
Speaker 1: in terms of campaigns, and campaigns are great, like they
Speaker 1: organize your effort, they give you, you know, some meaning
Speaker 1: that you can actually dial up for bursts of time.
Speaker 1: It's also good. But software as a service is actually
Speaker 1: of foreign concept to advertisers and marketers because we've been
Speaker 1: taught to think about just launching something, not maintaining and
Speaker 1: holding things. You know, this concept of frequency from you know,
Speaker 1: reach in frequency, like you had to act. She build
Speaker 1: a certain amount of um memorability by repeating your message, right,
Speaker 1: So that was how you kind of made a little
Speaker 1: bit of a permanent impact on a customer. You guys
Speaker 1: do all these amazing events and they happen in there
Speaker 1: like a month, right, and then you let all of
Speaker 1: that awareness go down to zero again, and then you
Speaker 1: have to build it up from scratch at the next event.
Speaker 1: So we would say you should think of that as
Speaker 1: a platform and it should have some kind of maintenance
Speaker 1: level of activity all the all year, and then you
Speaker 1: have a party like once a year, you know, where
Speaker 1: you really you know, punctual for all that thing out right,
Speaker 1: and get all the drama, but keep it going during
Speaker 1: the year, because when you let it go down to nothing,
Speaker 1: you have to rebuild it from nothing. Yeah, we've talked
Speaker 1: a lot on the show about the idea of impact
Speaker 1: and attention being the new retrequency, and this idea of
Speaker 1: these mic drop moments being supported by communication that happens
Speaker 1: in between them. And so I think the idea of
Speaker 1: communications planning and channel planning and the role of messaging
Speaker 1: has never been more important to agree. I think one
Speaker 1: of the things that we haven't really talked about is
Speaker 1: what is the infrastructure? And I've become like nerdy obsessed
Speaker 1: with this because like everybody talks about mar tech and
Speaker 1: your tech stacks and your this and your that, but
Speaker 1: really talking about how there has to be kind of
Speaker 1: a transformative maybe even like a layer or two things,
Speaker 1: um that allow that engine to run. It's all bespoke, right,
Speaker 1: and it's all like you know, these kind of bespoke
Speaker 1: islands of things. And I think that even if the
Speaker 1: holding companies want to be successful at this kind of stuff,
Speaker 1: they need to have not only a perspective, but they
Speaker 1: need to have a foot into the technology space to
Speaker 1: really enable this stuff. What are your thoughts on that.
Speaker 1: I would like technology to go away for you guys,
Speaker 1: for marketers. Yeah, like you should just be thinking about
Speaker 1: your contents, your strategies, and technology is a burden, right.
Speaker 1: I remember back to when everything you thought of didn't
Speaker 1: have to go through some giant I T loop that
Speaker 1: made it more expensive and more time consuming. Right. You
Speaker 1: could just make stuff and you could get it into
Speaker 1: the world. And while the world spelled up, we slowed down. Right,
Speaker 1: that's a mismatch. There's one thing there that I think
Speaker 1: It's really exciting, is that right now? In general, it
Speaker 1: actually still is in the I T loop in terms
Speaker 1: of like, if you're a marketer and you want to
Speaker 1: have some kind of metrics, analytics and you want to
Speaker 1: get things out quickly, you are still effectively going through
Speaker 1: some version of your I T or you're outsourcing it.
Speaker 1: You're going to a publisher who can get it done
Speaker 1: very quickly. You're going somewhere else who can get you know,
Speaker 1: to someone who can get it done very quickly. What
Speaker 1: the power of the marketer actually owning that hasn't really
Speaker 1: happened yet in the industry. There are some marketers I
Speaker 1: think who are more tech savvy marketers, um, but you're
Speaker 1: seeing like the rise of that digital officer. Really, I
Speaker 1: think that's kind of spraying that on. But you know,
Speaker 1: what does that look like? What does that look like
Speaker 1: when the marketer takes it. What has happened and I
Speaker 1: don't think people have even noticed it is its Instagram
Speaker 1: because Instagram is something marketers can do without tech, and
Speaker 1: so I think a lot of the success of that
Speaker 1: plain that a little bit like what you could just
Speaker 1: leave here and post something you don't need anybody's permission
Speaker 1: you don't need any you know, roadmaps, you don't need
Speaker 1: to get in a queue. You're just done right. So
Speaker 1: I think the user friendliness of Instagram is at least
Speaker 1: half the reason it's become so popular for marketers. Interestingly,
Speaker 1: you're solving for future facing problems sitting on the tech
Speaker 1: side and the design side, but you've had a career
Speaker 1: on the agency side and you've seen what it takes
Speaker 1: to think about or put in place solutions that will
Speaker 1: help brands. Can you talk about your background and how
Speaker 1: you've navigated to end up in developing a company like
Speaker 1: City of Well backing up from year UM, I kind
Speaker 1: of had the problems you're talking about, right, and I
Speaker 1: called it death by a thousand cuts. You know. The
Speaker 1: proliferation of all these channels made UM figuring out what
Speaker 1: to do and doing it well almost impossible. And if
Speaker 1: you already have scale, you need a solution. Like it's
Speaker 1: great for the disruptors because they can pick a channel
Speaker 1: and do it well, and so the barrier to entry
Speaker 1: came way down. But if you're selling you know, um,
Speaker 1: deodorant or cars or whatever, and you're already trying to
Speaker 1: talk to millions and millions of people. You had a
Speaker 1: much tougher challenge, which was managing all that complexity. And
Speaker 1: there has to be something for business at scale to
Speaker 1: make it simpler to take advantage of the benefits of scale.
Speaker 1: And I know, you know it's kind of fashionable to
Speaker 1: kind of um disparaged scale, but that's what everybody wants.
Speaker 1: Here's the thing that I love that you just said.
Speaker 1: That is really right, Like it's not fashionable to talk
Speaker 1: about scale. The reason it's not fashionable to talk about
Speaker 1: scales because scale represented the one size fits all model.
Speaker 1: The point is every DTC brand wants scale that no
Speaker 1: one's gonna say to you, I don't want to grow,
Speaker 1: I don't want to be selling to millions of people.
Speaker 1: They will say to you, I want to maintain what
Speaker 1: keeps me special and I want to grow my relationship.
Speaker 1: So I'm looking at a lifetime value of always A
Speaker 1: lot of big companies got really far away from their customers,
Speaker 1: you know there you know our media, habits, our tastes, ingredients,
Speaker 1: you know, so many things changed all at once, and
Speaker 1: a lot of smaller companies drove trucks through that. Well,
Speaker 1: what do you think the people that you're mentioning like
Speaker 1: a Casper. They've done a great job at doing content marketing.
Speaker 1: I don't know what they would say, but at least
Speaker 1: doing you know, speaking to their audience and knowing who
Speaker 1: their audiences and then backing it up in their product
Speaker 1: experience and all of that. But like, what's next. I'm
Speaker 1: nodding furiously because I don't really see a response from
Speaker 1: the traditional mattress makers. And this has been going on
Speaker 1: for years now. This Casper didn't launch last week, right,
Speaker 1: So I think a lot of these companies, you know,
Speaker 1: they're too big to change, and so I do think
Speaker 1: a lot of these disruptors are going to eat some lunches.
Speaker 1: What does the future of content marketing look like? I
Speaker 1: think we're ready for the second wave of content marketing.
Speaker 1: You know, the first time around, we all thought it
Speaker 1: was a panacea and that we would just make this
Speaker 1: instead of advertising and everything would be great. And it's
Speaker 1: not easy. It's hard, Like there aren't many I've heard
Speaker 1: you guys say there aren't many people who know how
Speaker 1: to land the plane, right, So, um, it's a different
Speaker 1: skill set. And one of the barriers is that inside
Speaker 1: the company, you know, the CFO and the rest of
Speaker 1: the people you're accountable to expect you to bring in
Speaker 1: a certain kind of business for a certain kind of
Speaker 1: spend in a certain amount of time. And content marketing
Speaker 1: doesn't work like that, right, And so there has to
Speaker 1: be like a resetting of expectations inside and some patients
Speaker 1: for people who knew the former metho that to learn
Speaker 1: the new method and execute it well. And so now
Speaker 1: we really have to do it because I'm sorry, but
Speaker 1: the Internet doesn't like advertising very much. I think that's
Speaker 1: also the issue, you know, and speaking on the media side,
Speaker 1: like starting with a channel mix before you even have
Speaker 1: an idea, you know, and thinking about I'm going to
Speaker 1: go out and create, um this media mix and allocate
Speaker 1: percentages of my budget and then I'm supposed to fill
Speaker 1: it fill it with content that might look the same
Speaker 1: across the entire ecosystem. That's been the model. And I
Speaker 1: think what we're all sort of, you know, alluding to
Speaker 1: is maybe we need to take a step back and
Speaker 1: realize that channels are just tactics to deploy this bigger
Speaker 1: content message or idea of what we're working towards. It
Speaker 1: actually starts with the customer because people don't understand that
Speaker 1: content marketing is service that It's about how can I
Speaker 1: be helpful and meaningful in your life if I make toothpaste,
Speaker 1: you know, can I help a mom understand exactly what
Speaker 1: she or he needs to know to manage the oral
Speaker 1: care from you know, birth to college and be trusted
Speaker 1: for that. You'll buy my toothpaste if I do that? Yes,
Speaker 1: I mean I love that example. It's so funny because
Speaker 1: Gimblet Media, you know, came out with Chompers, which is
Speaker 1: like a two minute podcast for kids and parents about
Speaker 1: brushing their teeth. The problem is is like advertising has
Speaker 1: become almost fs I, like right when you start thinking
Speaker 1: about content and product like this, all of a sudden
Speaker 1: you're like, holy shit, a thirty second ad, the way
Speaker 1: we've been thinking about it, the way we've been buying it,
Speaker 1: the way we've been placing it becomes like an fs
Speaker 1: I compared to something that is going to give me
Speaker 1: a relationship and an emotional response and actually a product
Speaker 1: that I care about. It makes you want to spend
Speaker 1: time with the brand. With the brand, yes, and if
Speaker 1: you go right for the business, you know, people put
Speaker 1: their guard up, right. But when you started thinking about storytelling,
Speaker 1: that actually is valuable to me in that moment, and
Speaker 1: has goes along with this kind of product variance all
Speaker 1: of a sudden, it's very different type of storytelling. There
Speaker 1: are degrees, right, like a business Amazon that has exclusive features, right,
Speaker 1: there's no Amazon too, right. So it's easy to develop
Speaker 1: a preference for that because they deliver something nobody else does.
Speaker 1: But a lot of these other products are considered kind
Speaker 1: of interchangeable, like you know, SUV S. If I had
Speaker 1: to go buy an sub, I would have to start
Speaker 1: doing some research. I don't really have a preference. So
Speaker 1: that's where a lot of what we're talking about comes in.
Speaker 1: Who connects with me not just in features which might
Speaker 1: be kind of minor from one vehicle to another, but
Speaker 1: which one of those represents my idea of freedom or convenience. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so that's where that's where the craft comes in, you know,
Speaker 1: trying to connect those kinds of products to people more deeply.
Speaker 1: If you know something's kind of sell themselves. I think
Speaker 1: that's a really excellent point when you think about it
Speaker 1: that way, is like, aside from a few attributes, what
Speaker 1: really is differentiating? And I think that we don't spend
Speaker 1: enough time really leaning into the insight of why somebody
Speaker 1: may care about a particular product or service. Reaching more
Speaker 1: people doesn't necessarily mean that we're reaching more people. I everybody,
Speaker 1: but you know, like I've been using this line on
Speaker 1: I think I'm going to retire. I have used this
Speaker 1: line the entire year on the speaking circuit. It's one
Speaker 1: thing to buy impressions, it's another thing to make one.
Speaker 1: And I want to live in a world where we
Speaker 1: are focused on the ladder. You know, reach also has that,
Speaker 1: you know, double entendre. You have to get there at all.
Speaker 1: When you get there, you have to get the kind
Speaker 1: of engagement that matters right, right, So it's hard. It's
Speaker 1: harder now than it ever was. Like how we say,
Speaker 1: how do you tell big stories in small pieces? Right?
Speaker 1: Because that's what we have and some of the challenges
Speaker 1: we're talking about actually require a lot of time and
Speaker 1: a lot of attention. So you have to really, you know,
Speaker 1: figure out how are you going to earn that. Who
Speaker 1: do you think from a intent marketing perspective, who do
Speaker 1: you admire in the brand space? Who do you think
Speaker 1: is doing a really good job. I will tell you
Speaker 1: that B two B companies are underrated because they've been
Speaker 1: pretty good at this Intel in that space was fantastic
Speaker 1: and has been for a long time. And then of
Speaker 1: course you look at red Bull and red Bull has
Speaker 1: you know, completely earned its position in the world with
Speaker 1: content marketing, right, So I think those are are some
Speaker 1: good examples that come to mind. Who was your favorite
Speaker 1: content marketer of the year, that's a good question. I
Speaker 1: think Patagonia. Patagonias some fucking amazing stuff and like talk
Speaker 1: about putting your money where your mouth is, and I
Speaker 1: talk about them all the time. People who have really
Speaker 1: surprised me as Yetti. So Yetti has done some really
Speaker 1: fun videos. Do you know what, I'm so phenomenal with
Speaker 1: the woman who's the fisher like the fisherman dogs. Oh god,
Speaker 1: when that guy starts breaking down, I'm like an Aisle
Speaker 1: twelve might like see you know what, I'm in a
Speaker 1: different air route. I was crying with you. But was
Speaker 1: so great was it wasn't about product placement, it was
Speaker 1: really about the customer. Was so well brilliantly, brilliantly scripted,
Speaker 1: brilliant story that felt so Really when you talk about
Speaker 1: the Yetti approach, I think of a ven diagram, right, like,
Speaker 1: what does YETI want? And what does its customers want?
Speaker 1: And what's the halfway point? Right? We both care about
Speaker 1: the outdoors, we both care about hunting. Right, That's where
Speaker 1: your content marketing nucleus needs to be, not your brand,
Speaker 1: but also the idea of serving that up on an airplane,
Speaker 1: I think sort of that isolated emotional experience. I think
Speaker 1: the placement of it was in as much effective as
Speaker 1: the narrative itself. And so I'm going to answer my
Speaker 1: own question and say that the I'm going to actually
Speaker 1: not go with a brand. I'm going to go with
Speaker 1: a channel of where I thought content marketing was extremely
Speaker 1: effective this year, and that was out of Home. I
Speaker 1: think when you think about how brands leveraged UM locality,
Speaker 1: how they leverage sort of continuity UM and really sort
Speaker 1: of using it as an impact medium as well as
Speaker 1: an awareness medium. You know, when you think about the
Speaker 1: ways UM newcomer challenger brands use transit totally completely efficient
Speaker 1: and I'm sure as completely effective UM as anything else
Speaker 1: that they might have been able to use to see
Speaker 1: lift in particular markets. So as we head into we
Speaker 1: have to play our favorite game kill by d I
Speaker 1: Y which one first? What would you kill? I would
Speaker 1: kill surveillance advertising. What is surveillance advertising knowing so much
Speaker 1: about me to such a granular level that I feel violated? Okay,
Speaker 1: I think we can do a lot with less, Like
Speaker 1: we don't have to know every excruciating detail and we
Speaker 1: can still get close to the target. Right, So I
Speaker 1: think I'd like to see a lot more um ca
Speaker 1: ouciousness about how much data gets collected and how it
Speaker 1: gets used, because I think we're also in danger of
Speaker 1: poisoning the pond. Alright, I like it like that. What
Speaker 1: would you buy? I would buy listicals because everybody likes
Speaker 1: likes or swipe a bles, swipe a bleistical, so so
Speaker 1: listicals listical suistical. So um. We love to hate listicals
Speaker 1: because they seem like a cheap way out, but even
Speaker 1: the New Yorker is making them now. They just don't
Speaker 1: call them that you know ten articles on architecture that
Speaker 1: you might have missed, right, So it's a really human
Speaker 1: way to organize information. If I tell you you know
Speaker 1: ten things to do in in Barbados, or five things
Speaker 1: to give your child before their first day of school,
Speaker 1: like you know how to put that in your own head.
Speaker 1: So I think we should respect the fact that that's
Speaker 1: a really great way for people to manage too much
Speaker 1: information and to organize things personally, they get no love
Speaker 1: and what would you do yourself curate? I think, UM,
Speaker 1: you know too much stuff out there and I would
Speaker 1: love to be in another life for another time somebody
Speaker 1: who helps sift through it and find like the unexpected
Speaker 1: and the trustable and the useful. And I think in
Speaker 1: the next few years that's going to be a huge
Speaker 1: role for organizations and people to help us find our
Speaker 1: way in like so much choice. You have a really
Speaker 1: interesting background with design and technology and your perspective on
Speaker 1: all of these things that UM, the business world actually
Speaker 1: needs a little bit more curation from some of the
Speaker 1: partners that they're working with. One thing that I know
Speaker 1: that you've done at CITYA is actually give a lot
Speaker 1: of executives perspective beyond how they're using their your product
Speaker 1: and really given them a bigger perspective on what content
Speaker 1: actually could do and the difference in communications messaging UM
Speaker 1: and the shift that's kind of happening. So thank you.
Speaker 1: Thanks for coming out. If people want to get in
Speaker 1: touch with you to talk about city and all things
Speaker 1: swipe able con tent Linda at City see I T
Speaker 1: i A dot Com. Thank you Linda for coming on.
Speaker 1: Happy Holiday, Thank you, Happy holidays. What a year, so
Speaker 1: many amazing conversations with so many of the industry's biggest
Speaker 1: game changers. Thank you all for coming on, sharing your
Speaker 1: insights and experiences and helping us move the industry forward.
Speaker 1: And thank you to our audience. This has been an
Speaker 1: amazing year for at Landia and I think what Atlantia
Speaker 1: represents in the marketplace so in we want to talk
Speaker 1: to you more, we want to see you more, we
Speaker 1: want to hear you more. So big thanks to you
Speaker 1: at Lantia listeners. Big thanks for our producer Dana, all
Speaker 1: of our friends and family at Pattivelee. Happy holidays, Laura,
Speaker 1: love you, same to you. We'll be back in twenty MM.
Speaker 1: Full disclosure. Our opinions are our own.