1 00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:03,760 Speaker 1: I'm off my game today. No, you're not. People are 2 00:00:03,800 --> 00:00:05,640 Speaker 1: going to have to start making better content. I think 3 00:00:05,640 --> 00:00:07,160 Speaker 1: we're gonna be talking about this for a long time. 4 00:00:07,240 --> 00:00:10,200 Speaker 1: When you program for everyone, you program for no one. 5 00:00:10,240 --> 00:00:12,319 Speaker 1: I think it's that we're purpose driven platform like we're 6 00:00:12,320 --> 00:00:15,600 Speaker 1: trying to get to substance. How was that? Are you 7 00:00:15,680 --> 00:00:19,200 Speaker 1: happy with that? This is marketing therapy right now? It 8 00:00:19,480 --> 00:00:29,880 Speaker 1: really is? What's up? I'm Laura Currency and I'm Alexa Kristen. 9 00:00:29,960 --> 00:00:33,640 Speaker 1: Welcome back at Landia. We made it over and out. 10 00:00:34,040 --> 00:00:38,440 Speaker 1: Happy holidays at Landia. Happy holidays everyone. So we're in 11 00:00:38,479 --> 00:00:42,680 Speaker 1: the studio talking about all things content marketing with Linda Holiday, 12 00:00:42,840 --> 00:00:47,360 Speaker 1: CEO and founder of Sitia. Yes, Linda, we've known her 13 00:00:47,479 --> 00:00:49,680 Speaker 1: for a few years now, and I think we've both 14 00:00:49,720 --> 00:00:54,200 Speaker 1: been kind of fascinated with her really interesting background and 15 00:00:54,240 --> 00:00:56,960 Speaker 1: the product that she's created and the company she's created 16 00:00:57,320 --> 00:01:01,040 Speaker 1: is a SAS software as a service company that has 17 00:01:01,160 --> 00:01:03,960 Speaker 1: a very kind of usable interface for what I would 18 00:01:03,960 --> 00:01:08,560 Speaker 1: say is content marketing in this kind of new media 19 00:01:08,920 --> 00:01:11,760 Speaker 1: and use your interface world. And I think some of 20 00:01:11,760 --> 00:01:15,240 Speaker 1: the insights Linda has been in the space since so 21 00:01:15,280 --> 00:01:18,760 Speaker 1: it's interesting to see how her perspective has evolved as 22 00:01:18,800 --> 00:01:23,199 Speaker 1: obviously technology, new platforms have emerged. I think just in general, 23 00:01:23,200 --> 00:01:25,479 Speaker 1: one of the themes that we've talked about at length 24 00:01:25,600 --> 00:01:28,000 Speaker 1: over the course of this year has really been the 25 00:01:28,120 --> 00:01:31,760 Speaker 1: need to move towards content ecosystems and moving away from 26 00:01:31,800 --> 00:01:34,679 Speaker 1: the idea of campaigns and flight dates and very structural 27 00:01:34,760 --> 00:01:37,479 Speaker 1: channel planning and these like little spikes that go to nothing, 28 00:01:37,600 --> 00:01:39,800 Speaker 1: spikes that go to nothing. And I think she's going 29 00:01:39,840 --> 00:01:42,160 Speaker 1: to talk about some of that stuff. So with that, 30 00:01:42,520 --> 00:01:58,040 Speaker 1: Linda Holiday for the holidays, we'll be right back and 31 00:01:58,120 --> 00:02:02,560 Speaker 1: we're back in the studio. Welcome Linda Holiday, founder and 32 00:02:02,680 --> 00:02:06,080 Speaker 1: CEO of Sidia. Hi, Linda, Hi, great to be here, 33 00:02:06,120 --> 00:02:09,880 Speaker 1: you guys, Thanks for joining. So Linda tell us what 34 00:02:10,120 --> 00:02:14,760 Speaker 1: Sidia is and does. So it's hard to talk about 35 00:02:14,760 --> 00:02:16,760 Speaker 1: what City is without doing a tiny bit of a 36 00:02:16,840 --> 00:02:21,200 Speaker 1: backswing because it's not obvious, but the Internet has kind 37 00:02:21,200 --> 00:02:23,000 Speaker 1: of gone through a face shift. We used to make 38 00:02:23,040 --> 00:02:26,000 Speaker 1: pages and lots of big things and now it's all 39 00:02:26,040 --> 00:02:28,840 Speaker 1: a bunch of small pieces that get reorganized according to 40 00:02:28,880 --> 00:02:32,079 Speaker 1: some kind of intelligence and flow through feeds and streams. 41 00:02:32,720 --> 00:02:35,560 Speaker 1: So City is really a platform that helps big companies 42 00:02:35,680 --> 00:02:37,720 Speaker 1: make that kind of media. So if you're a brand 43 00:02:37,720 --> 00:02:40,440 Speaker 1: new company, you started making that, But if you're an 44 00:02:40,440 --> 00:02:43,200 Speaker 1: older company, you've inherited a lot of like tech dad 45 00:02:43,280 --> 00:02:45,639 Speaker 1: and cms s and things that aren't really well suited 46 00:02:46,040 --> 00:02:49,120 Speaker 1: for these channels. So it's a platform that big companies 47 00:02:49,120 --> 00:02:52,840 Speaker 1: like Ge and Comcast and Viacom used to make media 48 00:02:52,919 --> 00:02:55,960 Speaker 1: that goes across all channels. So sometimes we think of 49 00:02:56,040 --> 00:02:59,480 Speaker 1: ourselves as a shipping container system but for content. So 50 00:02:59,480 --> 00:03:01,359 Speaker 1: you make some once and we make sure we can 51 00:03:01,360 --> 00:03:03,720 Speaker 1: get it to everywhere and that all the metrics are 52 00:03:03,800 --> 00:03:07,440 Speaker 1: standardized and counted and human and intuitive. What was the 53 00:03:07,520 --> 00:03:12,359 Speaker 1: insight too move into a shipping container business for content? 54 00:03:12,760 --> 00:03:15,960 Speaker 1: Um One of the insights was that the format itself 55 00:03:16,080 --> 00:03:19,720 Speaker 1: was getting commoditized. Right. We used to make websites and 56 00:03:19,720 --> 00:03:22,760 Speaker 1: then somebody invented this thing called the laptop, and we're like, what, 57 00:03:23,000 --> 00:03:25,600 Speaker 1: we have to make another one, a smaller one, like 58 00:03:25,720 --> 00:03:29,000 Speaker 1: you couldn't actually put a desktop website on a laptop. 59 00:03:30,240 --> 00:03:33,000 Speaker 1: And then fast forward, we've got a gazillion channels and 60 00:03:33,040 --> 00:03:35,560 Speaker 1: they're all different, and so everybody's running like a million 61 00:03:35,600 --> 00:03:38,920 Speaker 1: teams making format changes, which is a tremendous waste of 62 00:03:38,960 --> 00:03:41,600 Speaker 1: time and money. So that was one insight that the 63 00:03:41,920 --> 00:03:46,120 Speaker 1: format itself was becoming commoditized, so people, different people are 64 00:03:46,200 --> 00:03:49,320 Speaker 1: using Sidia for different things. I remember when we were 65 00:03:49,320 --> 00:03:51,400 Speaker 1: talking to Ross Martin, who's been on the show. When 66 00:03:51,400 --> 00:03:54,240 Speaker 1: I first met him, he actually walked me through like 67 00:03:54,320 --> 00:03:57,200 Speaker 1: the Viacom innovation lab and he was showing me all 68 00:03:57,240 --> 00:03:59,240 Speaker 1: these things that they had done with Cydia, which is 69 00:03:59,280 --> 00:04:01,640 Speaker 1: like kind of a big deal for Viacom At the time. 70 00:04:01,840 --> 00:04:04,800 Speaker 1: I was like, how do we get content out that's 71 00:04:04,920 --> 00:04:09,080 Speaker 1: lightweight and easy and quick and can be modifiable. Um, 72 00:04:09,120 --> 00:04:12,360 Speaker 1: they were using you know, Citia in one level. What 73 00:04:12,400 --> 00:04:14,640 Speaker 1: are the kind of different use cases for Citia that 74 00:04:14,720 --> 00:04:17,760 Speaker 1: you've seen? That's how funny because g was our first 75 00:04:17,800 --> 00:04:21,080 Speaker 1: client and Viacom was our second, and it was literally 76 00:04:21,560 --> 00:04:25,520 Speaker 1: turbines to tattoos because I love that, and so we 77 00:04:25,600 --> 00:04:28,200 Speaker 1: sold it in for content marketing, and content marketing was 78 00:04:28,360 --> 00:04:31,479 Speaker 1: you know, kind of hot then and should be hotter now, 79 00:04:31,600 --> 00:04:34,320 Speaker 1: but back then people were really investing in it, and 80 00:04:34,360 --> 00:04:36,120 Speaker 1: so we found the people who were looking to do 81 00:04:36,160 --> 00:04:39,120 Speaker 1: that kind of convert thought leadership, white papers, a lot 82 00:04:39,160 --> 00:04:43,159 Speaker 1: of the you know, support um content around brand marketing 83 00:04:43,279 --> 00:04:46,679 Speaker 1: and corporate marketing. And then what happened was inside. People 84 00:04:46,720 --> 00:04:49,120 Speaker 1: started to make all the stuff we never thought about, right, 85 00:04:49,200 --> 00:04:54,080 Speaker 1: so HR investor relations training, and we just like watch 86 00:04:54,120 --> 00:04:56,680 Speaker 1: people make these things. And because it really is multi 87 00:04:56,680 --> 00:04:58,720 Speaker 1: purpose content and once you know how to use it, 88 00:04:58,720 --> 00:05:01,280 Speaker 1: it's like power pointer, keynote. Anyone can get in there 89 00:05:01,279 --> 00:05:04,360 Speaker 1: and make stuff. So people did. And now I'd say 90 00:05:04,360 --> 00:05:07,240 Speaker 1: our number one use case still is content marketing, and 91 00:05:07,279 --> 00:05:10,200 Speaker 1: the second use case would be communications, you know, pr 92 00:05:10,920 --> 00:05:14,760 Speaker 1: and so the actual product itself is really like a 93 00:05:14,839 --> 00:05:17,320 Speaker 1: deck that you can swipe through and get content and 94 00:05:17,360 --> 00:05:20,359 Speaker 1: sort of a card like format. Is that accurate? Yes? 95 00:05:20,440 --> 00:05:24,520 Speaker 1: And so another kind of insider observation is that the 96 00:05:24,560 --> 00:05:28,200 Speaker 1: most native motion on a phone is a swipe, not 97 00:05:28,320 --> 00:05:32,839 Speaker 1: a tap, right, So we made swipeable media because that's 98 00:05:32,880 --> 00:05:35,760 Speaker 1: the most ergonomically correct. Like if you think about how 99 00:05:35,880 --> 00:05:37,680 Speaker 1: use the phone, it's like a coffee in one hand 100 00:05:37,680 --> 00:05:40,120 Speaker 1: and the phone and the other. Right. So if that's 101 00:05:40,160 --> 00:05:42,599 Speaker 1: the most natural motion, like what do you what do 102 00:05:42,600 --> 00:05:43,800 Speaker 1: you want to do to get through a lot of 103 00:05:43,839 --> 00:05:46,960 Speaker 1: content fast? And the other kind of insight behind that 104 00:05:47,160 --> 00:05:49,480 Speaker 1: is users know what they want, like we're all really 105 00:05:49,480 --> 00:05:53,599 Speaker 1: great and navigating, and if you give people content that 106 00:05:53,640 --> 00:05:56,160 Speaker 1: they can get through quickly they will find what they want. 107 00:05:56,360 --> 00:05:58,960 Speaker 1: It's actually designed to help users get through a lot 108 00:05:59,000 --> 00:06:02,479 Speaker 1: of content fast. So if you think about how most 109 00:06:02,520 --> 00:06:04,760 Speaker 1: things are now just a feed and it's a column 110 00:06:05,240 --> 00:06:07,160 Speaker 1: and it could be a hundred feet long, and it's 111 00:06:07,279 --> 00:06:09,919 Speaker 1: kind of exhausting. But if you open up like the 112 00:06:10,040 --> 00:06:14,279 Speaker 1: depth or that Z axis, then you also can get 113 00:06:14,279 --> 00:06:17,159 Speaker 1: people to a lot of depth much faster because it's 114 00:06:17,160 --> 00:06:21,800 Speaker 1: actually three dimensional content, so more engagement obviously. Well it's 115 00:06:21,960 --> 00:06:25,280 Speaker 1: it's engaging because we like to you know, kind of 116 00:06:25,839 --> 00:06:28,920 Speaker 1: you know, surf and and brows and try and find 117 00:06:29,000 --> 00:06:32,120 Speaker 1: what we find. And it's also kind of satisfying. There's 118 00:06:32,160 --> 00:06:36,239 Speaker 1: this little like almost worry bead effect to getting through stuff. 119 00:06:36,440 --> 00:06:38,120 Speaker 1: If I started over, I wouldn't have done all of 120 00:06:38,160 --> 00:06:41,200 Speaker 1: that at once, because as a designer, I spent a 121 00:06:41,200 --> 00:06:45,320 Speaker 1: lot of time studying ergonomics and like, it's just not 122 00:06:45,440 --> 00:06:48,320 Speaker 1: healthy to bobble head up and down with your content, right. 123 00:06:48,360 --> 00:06:50,200 Speaker 1: That's not good for your neck, it's not good for 124 00:06:50,240 --> 00:06:52,960 Speaker 1: your eyes. It's better that the content move in your 125 00:06:52,960 --> 00:06:57,040 Speaker 1: head stay straight, right, that's much more human. So I'm like, well, 126 00:06:57,120 --> 00:06:59,920 Speaker 1: let's just do that, and people are like whye to 127 00:07:00,040 --> 00:07:05,080 Speaker 1: it's swipe because it was before Tinder, So yeah, we 128 00:07:05,200 --> 00:07:07,599 Speaker 1: stuck it out. And so now people understand that that's 129 00:07:07,600 --> 00:07:10,120 Speaker 1: actually a really efficient way to get through content. And 130 00:07:10,120 --> 00:07:11,960 Speaker 1: I see things all the time that look like Citia, 131 00:07:12,080 --> 00:07:15,600 Speaker 1: like the UM app Store, the Apple App Store, but 132 00:07:15,680 --> 00:07:18,560 Speaker 1: it's one card thin. I'm like, this is so inefficient. 133 00:07:18,920 --> 00:07:21,440 Speaker 1: You could get through so much more if you could 134 00:07:21,480 --> 00:07:25,120 Speaker 1: actually get to you know, UM app apps for language 135 00:07:25,160 --> 00:07:27,640 Speaker 1: learning and go booba boo bah boop. Right, how old 136 00:07:27,720 --> 00:07:29,840 Speaker 1: is Cidia? How long has it been around? We launched 137 00:07:29,840 --> 00:07:33,880 Speaker 1: in two thousand and twelve, but we were working with publishers, 138 00:07:34,520 --> 00:07:37,600 Speaker 1: and in two thousand and sixteen we switched over to 139 00:07:38,800 --> 00:07:41,360 Speaker 1: corporate customers and ge was our first customer, which we 140 00:07:41,440 --> 00:07:44,720 Speaker 1: launched in UM first quarter sixteen. It's interesting to think 141 00:07:44,760 --> 00:07:49,440 Speaker 1: about how you were starting to develop product based on 142 00:07:49,800 --> 00:07:52,320 Speaker 1: sort of the learned behavior or the evolution of behavior 143 00:07:52,360 --> 00:07:55,880 Speaker 1: for how we interact with technology that's going on what 144 00:07:56,120 --> 00:07:59,160 Speaker 1: seven years ago now, UM, And it's interesting to think 145 00:07:59,160 --> 00:08:03,960 Speaker 1: about how in the current marketplace UM, we're still developing 146 00:08:04,280 --> 00:08:08,320 Speaker 1: one size fits all formats and expecting those to travel 147 00:08:08,640 --> 00:08:13,400 Speaker 1: to you know, different screen sizes or played different viewing environments. 148 00:08:13,680 --> 00:08:15,880 Speaker 1: What have you learned over the last seven years that 149 00:08:15,920 --> 00:08:18,200 Speaker 1: you would share with our audience when thinking about how 150 00:08:18,240 --> 00:08:21,080 Speaker 1: to diversify format and really paying attention to the space 151 00:08:21,120 --> 00:08:26,240 Speaker 1: and behavior that consumers are leading with. I think the 152 00:08:26,320 --> 00:08:30,280 Speaker 1: hardest transition for traditional marketers is to understand that what's 153 00:08:30,320 --> 00:08:33,680 Speaker 1: most important now as relevance. We all grew up in 154 00:08:33,679 --> 00:08:35,560 Speaker 1: an era where we kind of had the mic, right, 155 00:08:35,640 --> 00:08:38,679 Speaker 1: and we said and they listened. You know, ten years ago, 156 00:08:39,320 --> 00:08:43,920 Speaker 1: ninety five percent of media was made by businesses. Now 157 00:08:43,920 --> 00:08:47,199 Speaker 1: it's less than half, right, So we are those of 158 00:08:47,240 --> 00:08:49,600 Speaker 1: us who are trying to put you know, commercial messages 159 00:08:49,600 --> 00:08:51,720 Speaker 1: out in the world are competing with a lot of 160 00:08:51,720 --> 00:08:53,960 Speaker 1: stuff that we didn't used to compete with. And to 161 00:08:54,080 --> 00:08:58,240 Speaker 1: compete in this new tent, you have to be relevant, right, 162 00:08:58,320 --> 00:09:01,840 Speaker 1: So we all cared a lot about reduction values. Me especially, 163 00:09:02,080 --> 00:09:04,800 Speaker 1: I can be a real perfectionist, right. I love storytelling, 164 00:09:05,000 --> 00:09:06,760 Speaker 1: I love the big canvas. I spent a lot of 165 00:09:06,800 --> 00:09:12,280 Speaker 1: my life making television commercials, which are excruciating lee you know, perfectionists. 166 00:09:12,320 --> 00:09:14,680 Speaker 1: But now like that doesn't matter so much. It matters 167 00:09:14,760 --> 00:09:17,360 Speaker 1: more that you get there when the party is going on, right, 168 00:09:17,440 --> 00:09:20,280 Speaker 1: Like attention is a stock market now goes up and 169 00:09:20,280 --> 00:09:22,680 Speaker 1: down so fast. Right, So if you can't make things 170 00:09:22,720 --> 00:09:25,840 Speaker 1: as a as a commercial entity fast enough to get 171 00:09:25,880 --> 00:09:28,200 Speaker 1: in on whatever people are interested in, you're going to 172 00:09:28,240 --> 00:09:31,600 Speaker 1: be irrelevant. So you know, I would say we need 173 00:09:31,640 --> 00:09:33,920 Speaker 1: What we've learned is people have to really dial up 174 00:09:33,920 --> 00:09:36,480 Speaker 1: how fast they jump in and how they find the 175 00:09:36,559 --> 00:09:39,640 Speaker 1: right connection between their products and their content and their 176 00:09:39,640 --> 00:09:43,680 Speaker 1: customers or potential customers interest. Do you see that translate 177 00:09:44,000 --> 00:09:47,800 Speaker 1: in your product, like do you see brands or creatives 178 00:09:48,040 --> 00:09:51,679 Speaker 1: using or publishers using your platform the wrong way? And 179 00:09:51,720 --> 00:09:55,360 Speaker 1: what would you advise in terms of you know, evolving 180 00:09:55,559 --> 00:09:58,200 Speaker 1: content to even just fit within the product you've created. 181 00:09:59,559 --> 00:10:02,160 Speaker 1: I think it is a pretty big learning curve, right. 182 00:10:02,240 --> 00:10:04,600 Speaker 1: I kind of think of it as going from baseball 183 00:10:04,640 --> 00:10:08,600 Speaker 1: to soccer, right, So everybody's on that, on that learning curve. 184 00:10:08,679 --> 00:10:10,920 Speaker 1: Companies like Viacom, of course, that have a lot more 185 00:10:11,040 --> 00:10:15,960 Speaker 1: customer um touch points learn faster right there in a 186 00:10:15,960 --> 00:10:18,160 Speaker 1: lot of social channels, They've got a lot of teams, 187 00:10:18,160 --> 00:10:21,360 Speaker 1: so there's more shared learning. Business to business customers have 188 00:10:21,440 --> 00:10:23,600 Speaker 1: been really good at content marketing for a long time, 189 00:10:24,320 --> 00:10:28,600 Speaker 1: so they actually understand not going right for the jugular immediately, 190 00:10:28,880 --> 00:10:31,040 Speaker 1: but they have to kind of earn some attention and 191 00:10:31,120 --> 00:10:34,719 Speaker 1: credibility by being useful to their customers before they try 192 00:10:34,760 --> 00:10:37,480 Speaker 1: to close a sale, so they are farther ahead in 193 00:10:37,520 --> 00:10:40,680 Speaker 1: some surprising ways. A lot of the traditional you know 194 00:10:40,800 --> 00:10:44,280 Speaker 1: CpG companies are trying to go too far, too fast, 195 00:10:44,360 --> 00:10:47,280 Speaker 1: and they scare their customers. Yeah, you know, what's your 196 00:10:47,320 --> 00:10:50,800 Speaker 1: perspective and what are you hearing from some of the 197 00:10:51,040 --> 00:10:55,240 Speaker 1: kind of big old companies that are really trying to 198 00:10:55,280 --> 00:10:58,880 Speaker 1: transform and how are you helping them do that? With Sidia, 199 00:10:59,520 --> 00:11:02,880 Speaker 1: maybe can sexually as well as you know from the 200 00:11:02,920 --> 00:11:08,680 Speaker 1: executional standpoint on using the interface. So we have B 201 00:11:08,679 --> 00:11:10,600 Speaker 1: two B and B two C customers and they have 202 00:11:10,679 --> 00:11:13,679 Speaker 1: different kinds of challenges. Right, the B two B customers 203 00:11:13,679 --> 00:11:16,880 Speaker 1: have had a lot of attention and they've been able 204 00:11:16,920 --> 00:11:21,320 Speaker 1: to use things like white papers and UM conferences and 205 00:11:21,520 --> 00:11:25,080 Speaker 1: now UM they're just realizing that their customers are also 206 00:11:25,160 --> 00:11:28,320 Speaker 1: in control. When I was in healthcare, we used to say, 207 00:11:28,480 --> 00:11:29,959 Speaker 1: you know, you would go to the doctor, that was 208 00:11:30,000 --> 00:11:32,679 Speaker 1: a healthcare consult. Then all of a sudden, you went 209 00:11:32,720 --> 00:11:34,839 Speaker 1: to the internet. You went to the doctor. You went 210 00:11:34,880 --> 00:11:38,360 Speaker 1: to the internet, that was a healthcare consult That's happened 211 00:11:38,400 --> 00:11:42,000 Speaker 1: to all B two B just recently. So they used 212 00:11:42,040 --> 00:11:45,360 Speaker 1: to control access to their product information and you had 213 00:11:45,400 --> 00:11:47,440 Speaker 1: to like talk to their sales people. And so now 214 00:11:47,440 --> 00:11:49,720 Speaker 1: those sales people walk in if they can get in 215 00:11:49,840 --> 00:11:52,959 Speaker 1: at all, and they can't, Like there's a disaster. That's 216 00:11:53,160 --> 00:11:56,120 Speaker 1: pretty underreported that B two B sales people really can't 217 00:11:56,120 --> 00:11:58,600 Speaker 1: get the FaceTime with their customers they used to. But 218 00:11:58,679 --> 00:12:01,240 Speaker 1: that customer has also done a tremendous amount of research. 219 00:12:01,280 --> 00:12:04,920 Speaker 1: Their procurement people have helped, and when that salesperson walks in, 220 00:12:05,000 --> 00:12:07,559 Speaker 1: it's a firing squad. It's more shark tank than let 221 00:12:07,559 --> 00:12:10,040 Speaker 1: me tell you about our new product. So it's a 222 00:12:10,040 --> 00:12:12,520 Speaker 1: tremendous change, and they're trying to figure out how do 223 00:12:12,600 --> 00:12:15,439 Speaker 1: we put smaller pieces of content? How do we tell 224 00:12:15,480 --> 00:12:18,439 Speaker 1: big stories and small pieces so that we're pushing all 225 00:12:18,480 --> 00:12:22,000 Speaker 1: that relevant information into the places where our customers are 226 00:12:22,040 --> 00:12:25,000 Speaker 1: doing their own, you know, kind of self exploration around 227 00:12:25,000 --> 00:12:28,240 Speaker 1: our products. And that's a really hard transition to make 228 00:12:28,280 --> 00:12:31,000 Speaker 1: because again they have the microphone and now they don't. 229 00:12:31,040 --> 00:12:36,000 Speaker 1: The customer has it. How does your platform as a 230 00:12:36,120 --> 00:12:43,600 Speaker 1: technology solution, how is that kind of either disrupting or 231 00:12:43,720 --> 00:12:47,160 Speaker 1: replacing kind of the standard content management? And I don't 232 00:12:47,160 --> 00:12:50,920 Speaker 1: mean content management systems. But even again, the content management 233 00:12:50,960 --> 00:12:55,839 Speaker 1: philosophy or is it content marketing and advertising are kind 234 00:12:55,880 --> 00:12:59,320 Speaker 1: of converging and right, both of those teams bring something 235 00:12:59,360 --> 00:13:03,640 Speaker 1: different to the marriage. Right, So um, the advertising people 236 00:13:03,679 --> 00:13:07,880 Speaker 1: think in terms of campaigns, and I think now the 237 00:13:08,080 --> 00:13:11,280 Speaker 1: more appropriate mindset is always be publishing. Like our customers 238 00:13:11,320 --> 00:13:13,520 Speaker 1: are always on and we have no idea where they 239 00:13:13,559 --> 00:13:16,320 Speaker 1: are in their product discovery journey, so we have to 240 00:13:16,320 --> 00:13:18,160 Speaker 1: be out there and all these channels all the time. 241 00:13:18,559 --> 00:13:21,480 Speaker 1: So if you put in your head that isn't always 242 00:13:21,480 --> 00:13:24,240 Speaker 1: be publishing model, then you would say, I need a 243 00:13:24,280 --> 00:13:27,240 Speaker 1: platform that supports that kind of behavior from our content 244 00:13:27,280 --> 00:13:30,439 Speaker 1: marketing and our advertising team. So that's what City is. 245 00:13:30,720 --> 00:13:33,200 Speaker 1: But I would say most of our customers still think 246 00:13:33,240 --> 00:13:35,679 Speaker 1: in terms of campaigns, and campaigns are great, like they 247 00:13:35,800 --> 00:13:39,439 Speaker 1: organize your effort, they give you, you know, some meaning 248 00:13:39,480 --> 00:13:41,760 Speaker 1: that you can actually dial up for bursts of time. 249 00:13:41,800 --> 00:13:45,640 Speaker 1: It's also good. But software as a service is actually 250 00:13:45,960 --> 00:13:50,000 Speaker 1: of foreign concept to advertisers and marketers because we've been 251 00:13:50,000 --> 00:13:54,000 Speaker 1: taught to think about just launching something, not maintaining and 252 00:13:54,080 --> 00:13:58,000 Speaker 1: holding things. You know, this concept of frequency from you know, 253 00:13:58,080 --> 00:14:00,560 Speaker 1: reach in frequency, like you had to act. She build 254 00:14:00,679 --> 00:14:05,960 Speaker 1: a certain amount of um memorability by repeating your message, right, 255 00:14:05,960 --> 00:14:08,280 Speaker 1: So that was how you kind of made a little 256 00:14:08,320 --> 00:14:10,960 Speaker 1: bit of a permanent impact on a customer. You guys 257 00:14:10,960 --> 00:14:13,200 Speaker 1: do all these amazing events and they happen in there 258 00:14:13,240 --> 00:14:16,400 Speaker 1: like a month, right, and then you let all of 259 00:14:16,440 --> 00:14:18,680 Speaker 1: that awareness go down to zero again, and then you 260 00:14:18,720 --> 00:14:21,120 Speaker 1: have to build it up from scratch at the next event. 261 00:14:21,560 --> 00:14:24,040 Speaker 1: So we would say you should think of that as 262 00:14:24,040 --> 00:14:26,760 Speaker 1: a platform and it should have some kind of maintenance 263 00:14:26,840 --> 00:14:29,720 Speaker 1: level of activity all the all year, and then you 264 00:14:29,760 --> 00:14:32,000 Speaker 1: have a party like once a year, you know, where 265 00:14:32,000 --> 00:14:34,720 Speaker 1: you really you know, punctual for all that thing out right, 266 00:14:34,760 --> 00:14:37,320 Speaker 1: and get all the drama, but keep it going during 267 00:14:37,360 --> 00:14:39,400 Speaker 1: the year, because when you let it go down to nothing, 268 00:14:39,440 --> 00:14:41,880 Speaker 1: you have to rebuild it from nothing. Yeah, we've talked 269 00:14:41,880 --> 00:14:43,840 Speaker 1: a lot on the show about the idea of impact 270 00:14:43,960 --> 00:14:47,680 Speaker 1: and attention being the new retrequency, and this idea of 271 00:14:47,680 --> 00:14:51,720 Speaker 1: these mic drop moments being supported by communication that happens 272 00:14:51,760 --> 00:14:54,200 Speaker 1: in between them. And so I think the idea of 273 00:14:54,280 --> 00:14:57,560 Speaker 1: communications planning and channel planning and the role of messaging 274 00:14:58,120 --> 00:15:00,880 Speaker 1: has never been more important to agree. I think one 275 00:15:00,920 --> 00:15:03,200 Speaker 1: of the things that we haven't really talked about is 276 00:15:03,320 --> 00:15:07,680 Speaker 1: what is the infrastructure? And I've become like nerdy obsessed 277 00:15:07,720 --> 00:15:11,360 Speaker 1: with this because like everybody talks about mar tech and 278 00:15:11,400 --> 00:15:14,160 Speaker 1: your tech stacks and your this and your that, but 279 00:15:14,560 --> 00:15:17,200 Speaker 1: really talking about how there has to be kind of 280 00:15:17,200 --> 00:15:20,640 Speaker 1: a transformative maybe even like a layer or two things, 281 00:15:21,280 --> 00:15:26,320 Speaker 1: um that allow that engine to run. It's all bespoke, right, 282 00:15:26,360 --> 00:15:29,280 Speaker 1: and it's all like you know, these kind of bespoke 283 00:15:29,440 --> 00:15:33,080 Speaker 1: islands of things. And I think that even if the 284 00:15:33,480 --> 00:15:37,200 Speaker 1: holding companies want to be successful at this kind of stuff, 285 00:15:37,240 --> 00:15:39,680 Speaker 1: they need to have not only a perspective, but they 286 00:15:39,680 --> 00:15:43,320 Speaker 1: need to have a foot into the technology space to 287 00:15:43,440 --> 00:15:45,760 Speaker 1: really enable this stuff. What are your thoughts on that. 288 00:15:47,360 --> 00:15:51,560 Speaker 1: I would like technology to go away for you guys, 289 00:15:51,600 --> 00:15:54,760 Speaker 1: for marketers. Yeah, like you should just be thinking about 290 00:15:54,840 --> 00:15:59,800 Speaker 1: your contents, your strategies, and technology is a burden, right. 291 00:15:59,840 --> 00:16:02,520 Speaker 1: I remember back to when everything you thought of didn't 292 00:16:02,520 --> 00:16:04,560 Speaker 1: have to go through some giant I T loop that 293 00:16:04,640 --> 00:16:08,040 Speaker 1: made it more expensive and more time consuming. Right. You 294 00:16:08,080 --> 00:16:09,800 Speaker 1: could just make stuff and you could get it into 295 00:16:09,800 --> 00:16:13,960 Speaker 1: the world. And while the world spelled up, we slowed down. Right, 296 00:16:14,040 --> 00:16:16,280 Speaker 1: that's a mismatch. There's one thing there that I think 297 00:16:16,320 --> 00:16:19,720 Speaker 1: It's really exciting, is that right now? In general, it 298 00:16:19,800 --> 00:16:22,600 Speaker 1: actually still is in the I T loop in terms 299 00:16:22,600 --> 00:16:24,400 Speaker 1: of like, if you're a marketer and you want to 300 00:16:24,440 --> 00:16:29,680 Speaker 1: have some kind of metrics, analytics and you want to 301 00:16:29,680 --> 00:16:33,880 Speaker 1: get things out quickly, you are still effectively going through 302 00:16:33,960 --> 00:16:36,960 Speaker 1: some version of your I T or you're outsourcing it. 303 00:16:37,120 --> 00:16:38,880 Speaker 1: You're going to a publisher who can get it done 304 00:16:38,960 --> 00:16:41,160 Speaker 1: very quickly. You're going somewhere else who can get you know, 305 00:16:41,200 --> 00:16:43,240 Speaker 1: to someone who can get it done very quickly. What 306 00:16:43,560 --> 00:16:49,560 Speaker 1: the power of the marketer actually owning that hasn't really 307 00:16:49,600 --> 00:16:52,720 Speaker 1: happened yet in the industry. There are some marketers I 308 00:16:52,760 --> 00:16:58,840 Speaker 1: think who are more tech savvy marketers, um, but you're 309 00:16:58,840 --> 00:17:02,360 Speaker 1: seeing like the rise of that digital officer. Really, I 310 00:17:02,400 --> 00:17:04,919 Speaker 1: think that's kind of spraying that on. But you know, 311 00:17:04,960 --> 00:17:06,960 Speaker 1: what does that look like? What does that look like 312 00:17:07,000 --> 00:17:09,760 Speaker 1: when the marketer takes it. What has happened and I 313 00:17:09,760 --> 00:17:13,359 Speaker 1: don't think people have even noticed it is its Instagram 314 00:17:13,440 --> 00:17:17,600 Speaker 1: because Instagram is something marketers can do without tech, and 315 00:17:17,680 --> 00:17:19,480 Speaker 1: so I think a lot of the success of that 316 00:17:19,640 --> 00:17:21,399 Speaker 1: plain that a little bit like what you could just 317 00:17:21,600 --> 00:17:24,440 Speaker 1: leave here and post something you don't need anybody's permission 318 00:17:24,480 --> 00:17:27,240 Speaker 1: you don't need any you know, roadmaps, you don't need 319 00:17:27,280 --> 00:17:29,800 Speaker 1: to get in a queue. You're just done right. So 320 00:17:30,240 --> 00:17:33,760 Speaker 1: I think the user friendliness of Instagram is at least 321 00:17:33,760 --> 00:17:38,040 Speaker 1: half the reason it's become so popular for marketers. Interestingly, 322 00:17:38,119 --> 00:17:41,040 Speaker 1: you're solving for future facing problems sitting on the tech 323 00:17:41,119 --> 00:17:43,960 Speaker 1: side and the design side, but you've had a career 324 00:17:44,280 --> 00:17:47,200 Speaker 1: on the agency side and you've seen what it takes 325 00:17:47,240 --> 00:17:50,400 Speaker 1: to think about or put in place solutions that will 326 00:17:50,440 --> 00:17:53,760 Speaker 1: help brands. Can you talk about your background and how 327 00:17:53,840 --> 00:17:56,760 Speaker 1: you've navigated to end up in developing a company like 328 00:17:56,840 --> 00:18:01,680 Speaker 1: City of Well backing up from year UM, I kind 329 00:18:01,680 --> 00:18:04,320 Speaker 1: of had the problems you're talking about, right, and I 330 00:18:04,359 --> 00:18:06,760 Speaker 1: called it death by a thousand cuts. You know. The 331 00:18:06,800 --> 00:18:10,919 Speaker 1: proliferation of all these channels made UM figuring out what 332 00:18:10,960 --> 00:18:15,320 Speaker 1: to do and doing it well almost impossible. And if 333 00:18:15,359 --> 00:18:19,160 Speaker 1: you already have scale, you need a solution. Like it's 334 00:18:19,160 --> 00:18:21,760 Speaker 1: great for the disruptors because they can pick a channel 335 00:18:21,800 --> 00:18:24,680 Speaker 1: and do it well, and so the barrier to entry 336 00:18:24,760 --> 00:18:28,440 Speaker 1: came way down. But if you're selling you know, um, 337 00:18:28,680 --> 00:18:31,919 Speaker 1: deodorant or cars or whatever, and you're already trying to 338 00:18:31,960 --> 00:18:35,280 Speaker 1: talk to millions and millions of people. You had a 339 00:18:35,400 --> 00:18:39,399 Speaker 1: much tougher challenge, which was managing all that complexity. And 340 00:18:39,480 --> 00:18:42,480 Speaker 1: there has to be something for business at scale to 341 00:18:42,560 --> 00:18:46,120 Speaker 1: make it simpler to take advantage of the benefits of scale. 342 00:18:46,480 --> 00:18:49,240 Speaker 1: And I know, you know it's kind of fashionable to 343 00:18:49,720 --> 00:18:53,199 Speaker 1: kind of um disparaged scale, but that's what everybody wants. 344 00:18:53,440 --> 00:18:55,520 Speaker 1: Here's the thing that I love that you just said. 345 00:18:55,640 --> 00:18:58,639 Speaker 1: That is really right, Like it's not fashionable to talk 346 00:18:58,760 --> 00:19:01,880 Speaker 1: about scale. The reason it's not fashionable to talk about 347 00:19:01,960 --> 00:19:04,879 Speaker 1: scales because scale represented the one size fits all model. 348 00:19:05,480 --> 00:19:09,480 Speaker 1: The point is every DTC brand wants scale that no 349 00:19:09,480 --> 00:19:11,119 Speaker 1: one's gonna say to you, I don't want to grow, 350 00:19:11,480 --> 00:19:13,480 Speaker 1: I don't want to be selling to millions of people. 351 00:19:13,960 --> 00:19:16,720 Speaker 1: They will say to you, I want to maintain what 352 00:19:16,920 --> 00:19:19,760 Speaker 1: keeps me special and I want to grow my relationship. 353 00:19:20,000 --> 00:19:23,760 Speaker 1: So I'm looking at a lifetime value of always A 354 00:19:23,800 --> 00:19:26,600 Speaker 1: lot of big companies got really far away from their customers, 355 00:19:26,640 --> 00:19:30,600 Speaker 1: you know there you know our media, habits, our tastes, ingredients, 356 00:19:30,760 --> 00:19:33,800 Speaker 1: you know, so many things changed all at once, and 357 00:19:33,920 --> 00:19:36,960 Speaker 1: a lot of smaller companies drove trucks through that. Well, 358 00:19:37,000 --> 00:19:39,000 Speaker 1: what do you think the people that you're mentioning like 359 00:19:39,040 --> 00:19:43,200 Speaker 1: a Casper. They've done a great job at doing content marketing. 360 00:19:43,240 --> 00:19:45,359 Speaker 1: I don't know what they would say, but at least 361 00:19:45,480 --> 00:19:48,640 Speaker 1: doing you know, speaking to their audience and knowing who 362 00:19:48,680 --> 00:19:51,240 Speaker 1: their audiences and then backing it up in their product 363 00:19:51,320 --> 00:19:54,520 Speaker 1: experience and all of that. But like, what's next. I'm 364 00:19:54,560 --> 00:19:57,960 Speaker 1: nodding furiously because I don't really see a response from 365 00:19:57,960 --> 00:20:01,320 Speaker 1: the traditional mattress makers. And this has been going on 366 00:20:01,440 --> 00:20:04,560 Speaker 1: for years now. This Casper didn't launch last week, right, 367 00:20:04,960 --> 00:20:08,159 Speaker 1: So I think a lot of these companies, you know, 368 00:20:08,200 --> 00:20:10,720 Speaker 1: they're too big to change, and so I do think 369 00:20:10,720 --> 00:20:14,160 Speaker 1: a lot of these disruptors are going to eat some lunches. 370 00:20:14,720 --> 00:20:18,320 Speaker 1: What does the future of content marketing look like? I 371 00:20:18,359 --> 00:20:20,880 Speaker 1: think we're ready for the second wave of content marketing. 372 00:20:21,200 --> 00:20:23,080 Speaker 1: You know, the first time around, we all thought it 373 00:20:23,160 --> 00:20:25,159 Speaker 1: was a panacea and that we would just make this 374 00:20:25,240 --> 00:20:28,960 Speaker 1: instead of advertising and everything would be great. And it's 375 00:20:29,040 --> 00:20:31,960 Speaker 1: not easy. It's hard, Like there aren't many I've heard 376 00:20:31,960 --> 00:20:33,520 Speaker 1: you guys say there aren't many people who know how 377 00:20:33,520 --> 00:20:37,000 Speaker 1: to land the plane, right, So, um, it's a different 378 00:20:37,000 --> 00:20:40,080 Speaker 1: skill set. And one of the barriers is that inside 379 00:20:40,080 --> 00:20:42,560 Speaker 1: the company, you know, the CFO and the rest of 380 00:20:42,600 --> 00:20:45,640 Speaker 1: the people you're accountable to expect you to bring in 381 00:20:45,720 --> 00:20:47,720 Speaker 1: a certain kind of business for a certain kind of 382 00:20:47,760 --> 00:20:50,560 Speaker 1: spend in a certain amount of time. And content marketing 383 00:20:50,600 --> 00:20:53,639 Speaker 1: doesn't work like that, right, And so there has to 384 00:20:53,680 --> 00:20:57,919 Speaker 1: be like a resetting of expectations inside and some patients 385 00:20:58,040 --> 00:21:00,480 Speaker 1: for people who knew the former metho that to learn 386 00:21:00,480 --> 00:21:03,040 Speaker 1: the new method and execute it well. And so now 387 00:21:03,119 --> 00:21:05,560 Speaker 1: we really have to do it because I'm sorry, but 388 00:21:05,680 --> 00:21:08,680 Speaker 1: the Internet doesn't like advertising very much. I think that's 389 00:21:08,680 --> 00:21:11,720 Speaker 1: also the issue, you know, and speaking on the media side, 390 00:21:11,800 --> 00:21:14,199 Speaker 1: like starting with a channel mix before you even have 391 00:21:14,240 --> 00:21:17,359 Speaker 1: an idea, you know, and thinking about I'm going to 392 00:21:17,440 --> 00:21:21,920 Speaker 1: go out and create, um this media mix and allocate 393 00:21:21,960 --> 00:21:24,960 Speaker 1: percentages of my budget and then I'm supposed to fill 394 00:21:25,000 --> 00:21:27,320 Speaker 1: it fill it with content that might look the same 395 00:21:27,359 --> 00:21:31,119 Speaker 1: across the entire ecosystem. That's been the model. And I 396 00:21:31,119 --> 00:21:34,040 Speaker 1: think what we're all sort of, you know, alluding to 397 00:21:34,320 --> 00:21:36,320 Speaker 1: is maybe we need to take a step back and 398 00:21:36,359 --> 00:21:39,200 Speaker 1: realize that channels are just tactics to deploy this bigger 399 00:21:39,240 --> 00:21:42,560 Speaker 1: content message or idea of what we're working towards. It 400 00:21:42,600 --> 00:21:47,280 Speaker 1: actually starts with the customer because people don't understand that 401 00:21:47,359 --> 00:21:51,879 Speaker 1: content marketing is service that It's about how can I 402 00:21:51,960 --> 00:21:55,440 Speaker 1: be helpful and meaningful in your life if I make toothpaste, 403 00:21:55,480 --> 00:21:58,800 Speaker 1: you know, can I help a mom understand exactly what 404 00:21:59,000 --> 00:22:02,120 Speaker 1: she or he needs to know to manage the oral 405 00:22:02,200 --> 00:22:05,960 Speaker 1: care from you know, birth to college and be trusted 406 00:22:06,000 --> 00:22:08,640 Speaker 1: for that. You'll buy my toothpaste if I do that? Yes, 407 00:22:08,840 --> 00:22:10,680 Speaker 1: I mean I love that example. It's so funny because 408 00:22:10,720 --> 00:22:13,320 Speaker 1: Gimblet Media, you know, came out with Chompers, which is 409 00:22:13,359 --> 00:22:15,800 Speaker 1: like a two minute podcast for kids and parents about 410 00:22:15,800 --> 00:22:18,640 Speaker 1: brushing their teeth. The problem is is like advertising has 411 00:22:18,680 --> 00:22:21,680 Speaker 1: become almost fs I, like right when you start thinking 412 00:22:21,680 --> 00:22:24,440 Speaker 1: about content and product like this, all of a sudden 413 00:22:24,440 --> 00:22:27,960 Speaker 1: you're like, holy shit, a thirty second ad, the way 414 00:22:28,040 --> 00:22:30,439 Speaker 1: we've been thinking about it, the way we've been buying it, 415 00:22:30,520 --> 00:22:33,080 Speaker 1: the way we've been placing it becomes like an fs 416 00:22:33,160 --> 00:22:35,639 Speaker 1: I compared to something that is going to give me 417 00:22:35,920 --> 00:22:39,560 Speaker 1: a relationship and an emotional response and actually a product 418 00:22:39,600 --> 00:22:41,919 Speaker 1: that I care about. It makes you want to spend 419 00:22:41,960 --> 00:22:45,199 Speaker 1: time with the brand. With the brand, yes, and if 420 00:22:45,240 --> 00:22:47,720 Speaker 1: you go right for the business, you know, people put 421 00:22:47,760 --> 00:22:51,320 Speaker 1: their guard up, right. But when you started thinking about storytelling, 422 00:22:51,440 --> 00:22:57,080 Speaker 1: that actually is valuable to me in that moment, and 423 00:22:57,320 --> 00:23:01,120 Speaker 1: has goes along with this kind of product variance all 424 00:23:01,119 --> 00:23:04,640 Speaker 1: of a sudden, it's very different type of storytelling. There 425 00:23:04,640 --> 00:23:09,560 Speaker 1: are degrees, right, like a business Amazon that has exclusive features, right, 426 00:23:09,640 --> 00:23:14,159 Speaker 1: there's no Amazon too, right. So it's easy to develop 427 00:23:14,240 --> 00:23:17,080 Speaker 1: a preference for that because they deliver something nobody else does. 428 00:23:17,400 --> 00:23:19,800 Speaker 1: But a lot of these other products are considered kind 429 00:23:19,840 --> 00:23:24,560 Speaker 1: of interchangeable, like you know, SUV S. If I had 430 00:23:24,560 --> 00:23:26,240 Speaker 1: to go buy an sub, I would have to start 431 00:23:26,280 --> 00:23:29,240 Speaker 1: doing some research. I don't really have a preference. So 432 00:23:29,400 --> 00:23:32,120 Speaker 1: that's where a lot of what we're talking about comes in. 433 00:23:32,400 --> 00:23:35,320 Speaker 1: Who connects with me not just in features which might 434 00:23:35,359 --> 00:23:37,840 Speaker 1: be kind of minor from one vehicle to another, but 435 00:23:37,920 --> 00:23:44,320 Speaker 1: which one of those represents my idea of freedom or convenience. Yeah, 436 00:23:44,359 --> 00:23:47,439 Speaker 1: so that's where that's where the craft comes in, you know, 437 00:23:47,520 --> 00:23:50,479 Speaker 1: trying to connect those kinds of products to people more deeply. 438 00:23:50,960 --> 00:23:54,400 Speaker 1: If you know something's kind of sell themselves. I think 439 00:23:54,400 --> 00:23:57,040 Speaker 1: that's a really excellent point when you think about it 440 00:23:57,080 --> 00:24:00,600 Speaker 1: that way, is like, aside from a few attributes, what 441 00:24:00,760 --> 00:24:03,480 Speaker 1: really is differentiating? And I think that we don't spend 442 00:24:03,600 --> 00:24:08,440 Speaker 1: enough time really leaning into the insight of why somebody 443 00:24:08,480 --> 00:24:11,240 Speaker 1: may care about a particular product or service. Reaching more 444 00:24:11,280 --> 00:24:15,960 Speaker 1: people doesn't necessarily mean that we're reaching more people. I everybody, 445 00:24:16,760 --> 00:24:18,960 Speaker 1: but you know, like I've been using this line on 446 00:24:19,119 --> 00:24:21,959 Speaker 1: I think I'm going to retire. I have used this 447 00:24:22,000 --> 00:24:25,600 Speaker 1: line the entire year on the speaking circuit. It's one 448 00:24:25,680 --> 00:24:28,720 Speaker 1: thing to buy impressions, it's another thing to make one. 449 00:24:29,520 --> 00:24:30,960 Speaker 1: And I want to live in a world where we 450 00:24:30,960 --> 00:24:34,160 Speaker 1: are focused on the ladder. You know, reach also has that, 451 00:24:34,400 --> 00:24:36,800 Speaker 1: you know, double entendre. You have to get there at all. 452 00:24:37,880 --> 00:24:39,360 Speaker 1: When you get there, you have to get the kind 453 00:24:39,359 --> 00:24:44,200 Speaker 1: of engagement that matters right, right, So it's hard. It's 454 00:24:44,240 --> 00:24:46,400 Speaker 1: harder now than it ever was. Like how we say, 455 00:24:46,400 --> 00:24:48,439 Speaker 1: how do you tell big stories in small pieces? Right? 456 00:24:48,440 --> 00:24:51,040 Speaker 1: Because that's what we have and some of the challenges 457 00:24:51,040 --> 00:24:54,359 Speaker 1: we're talking about actually require a lot of time and 458 00:24:54,440 --> 00:24:56,800 Speaker 1: a lot of attention. So you have to really, you know, 459 00:24:56,840 --> 00:24:59,080 Speaker 1: figure out how are you going to earn that. Who 460 00:24:59,119 --> 00:25:01,919 Speaker 1: do you think from a intent marketing perspective, who do 461 00:25:01,960 --> 00:25:04,800 Speaker 1: you admire in the brand space? Who do you think 462 00:25:04,840 --> 00:25:07,120 Speaker 1: is doing a really good job. I will tell you 463 00:25:07,160 --> 00:25:10,640 Speaker 1: that B two B companies are underrated because they've been 464 00:25:10,680 --> 00:25:14,359 Speaker 1: pretty good at this Intel in that space was fantastic 465 00:25:14,359 --> 00:25:16,320 Speaker 1: and has been for a long time. And then of 466 00:25:16,359 --> 00:25:18,320 Speaker 1: course you look at red Bull and red Bull has 467 00:25:18,520 --> 00:25:20,840 Speaker 1: you know, completely earned its position in the world with 468 00:25:20,880 --> 00:25:24,040 Speaker 1: content marketing, right, So I think those are are some 469 00:25:24,080 --> 00:25:26,160 Speaker 1: good examples that come to mind. Who was your favorite 470 00:25:26,160 --> 00:25:30,280 Speaker 1: content marketer of the year, that's a good question. I 471 00:25:30,359 --> 00:25:35,720 Speaker 1: think Patagonia. Patagonias some fucking amazing stuff and like talk 472 00:25:35,800 --> 00:25:38,520 Speaker 1: about putting your money where your mouth is, and I 473 00:25:38,600 --> 00:25:40,960 Speaker 1: talk about them all the time. People who have really 474 00:25:40,960 --> 00:25:44,000 Speaker 1: surprised me as Yetti. So Yetti has done some really 475 00:25:44,359 --> 00:25:49,919 Speaker 1: fun videos. Do you know what, I'm so phenomenal with 476 00:25:49,960 --> 00:25:56,840 Speaker 1: the woman who's the fisher like the fisherman dogs. Oh god, 477 00:25:56,880 --> 00:25:59,040 Speaker 1: when that guy starts breaking down, I'm like an Aisle 478 00:25:59,119 --> 00:26:02,600 Speaker 1: twelve might like see you know what, I'm in a 479 00:26:02,680 --> 00:26:05,000 Speaker 1: different air route. I was crying with you. But was 480 00:26:05,080 --> 00:26:07,879 Speaker 1: so great was it wasn't about product placement, it was 481 00:26:07,960 --> 00:26:13,560 Speaker 1: really about the customer. Was so well brilliantly, brilliantly scripted, 482 00:26:13,880 --> 00:26:17,200 Speaker 1: brilliant story that felt so Really when you talk about 483 00:26:17,240 --> 00:26:20,479 Speaker 1: the Yetti approach, I think of a ven diagram, right, like, 484 00:26:20,520 --> 00:26:23,359 Speaker 1: what does YETI want? And what does its customers want? 485 00:26:23,560 --> 00:26:25,960 Speaker 1: And what's the halfway point? Right? We both care about 486 00:26:26,000 --> 00:26:29,080 Speaker 1: the outdoors, we both care about hunting. Right, That's where 487 00:26:29,080 --> 00:26:31,879 Speaker 1: your content marketing nucleus needs to be, not your brand, 488 00:26:32,200 --> 00:26:35,520 Speaker 1: but also the idea of serving that up on an airplane, 489 00:26:35,680 --> 00:26:40,600 Speaker 1: I think sort of that isolated emotional experience. I think 490 00:26:40,680 --> 00:26:43,719 Speaker 1: the placement of it was in as much effective as 491 00:26:43,720 --> 00:26:46,679 Speaker 1: the narrative itself. And so I'm going to answer my 492 00:26:46,720 --> 00:26:49,120 Speaker 1: own question and say that the I'm going to actually 493 00:26:49,160 --> 00:26:50,600 Speaker 1: not go with a brand. I'm going to go with 494 00:26:50,640 --> 00:26:53,920 Speaker 1: a channel of where I thought content marketing was extremely 495 00:26:53,960 --> 00:26:56,439 Speaker 1: effective this year, and that was out of Home. I 496 00:26:56,480 --> 00:27:02,879 Speaker 1: think when you think about how brands leveraged UM locality, 497 00:27:03,080 --> 00:27:07,400 Speaker 1: how they leverage sort of continuity UM and really sort 498 00:27:07,440 --> 00:27:10,440 Speaker 1: of using it as an impact medium as well as 499 00:27:10,480 --> 00:27:12,440 Speaker 1: an awareness medium. You know, when you think about the 500 00:27:12,480 --> 00:27:19,320 Speaker 1: ways UM newcomer challenger brands use transit totally completely efficient 501 00:27:19,440 --> 00:27:23,120 Speaker 1: and I'm sure as completely effective UM as anything else 502 00:27:23,160 --> 00:27:25,400 Speaker 1: that they might have been able to use to see 503 00:27:25,440 --> 00:27:29,040 Speaker 1: lift in particular markets. So as we head into we 504 00:27:29,119 --> 00:27:32,399 Speaker 1: have to play our favorite game kill by d I 505 00:27:32,600 --> 00:27:36,840 Speaker 1: Y which one first? What would you kill? I would 506 00:27:36,920 --> 00:27:42,320 Speaker 1: kill surveillance advertising. What is surveillance advertising knowing so much 507 00:27:42,359 --> 00:27:48,200 Speaker 1: about me to such a granular level that I feel violated? Okay, 508 00:27:48,400 --> 00:27:51,119 Speaker 1: I think we can do a lot with less, Like 509 00:27:51,200 --> 00:27:54,399 Speaker 1: we don't have to know every excruciating detail and we 510 00:27:54,440 --> 00:27:57,280 Speaker 1: can still get close to the target. Right, So I 511 00:27:57,320 --> 00:27:59,840 Speaker 1: think I'd like to see a lot more um ca 512 00:28:00,000 --> 00:28:02,560 Speaker 1: ouciousness about how much data gets collected and how it 513 00:28:02,600 --> 00:28:05,440 Speaker 1: gets used, because I think we're also in danger of 514 00:28:06,080 --> 00:28:09,720 Speaker 1: poisoning the pond. Alright, I like it like that. What 515 00:28:09,800 --> 00:28:15,480 Speaker 1: would you buy? I would buy listicals because everybody likes 516 00:28:15,720 --> 00:28:20,040 Speaker 1: likes or swipe a bles, swipe a bleistical, so so 517 00:28:20,119 --> 00:28:26,040 Speaker 1: listicals listical suistical. So um. We love to hate listicals 518 00:28:26,080 --> 00:28:28,120 Speaker 1: because they seem like a cheap way out, but even 519 00:28:28,160 --> 00:28:30,320 Speaker 1: the New Yorker is making them now. They just don't 520 00:28:30,359 --> 00:28:33,240 Speaker 1: call them that you know ten articles on architecture that 521 00:28:33,320 --> 00:28:36,680 Speaker 1: you might have missed, right, So it's a really human 522 00:28:36,720 --> 00:28:39,360 Speaker 1: way to organize information. If I tell you you know 523 00:28:39,440 --> 00:28:42,960 Speaker 1: ten things to do in in Barbados, or five things 524 00:28:43,000 --> 00:28:45,120 Speaker 1: to give your child before their first day of school, 525 00:28:45,200 --> 00:28:47,320 Speaker 1: like you know how to put that in your own head. 526 00:28:47,760 --> 00:28:50,040 Speaker 1: So I think we should respect the fact that that's 527 00:28:50,040 --> 00:28:53,040 Speaker 1: a really great way for people to manage too much 528 00:28:53,080 --> 00:28:56,280 Speaker 1: information and to organize things personally, they get no love 529 00:28:57,000 --> 00:29:01,400 Speaker 1: and what would you do yourself curate? I think, UM, 530 00:29:01,440 --> 00:29:04,560 Speaker 1: you know too much stuff out there and I would 531 00:29:04,640 --> 00:29:08,000 Speaker 1: love to be in another life for another time somebody 532 00:29:08,000 --> 00:29:11,360 Speaker 1: who helps sift through it and find like the unexpected 533 00:29:11,440 --> 00:29:15,200 Speaker 1: and the trustable and the useful. And I think in 534 00:29:15,280 --> 00:29:17,160 Speaker 1: the next few years that's going to be a huge 535 00:29:17,240 --> 00:29:20,640 Speaker 1: role for organizations and people to help us find our 536 00:29:20,680 --> 00:29:23,960 Speaker 1: way in like so much choice. You have a really 537 00:29:24,000 --> 00:29:27,840 Speaker 1: interesting background with design and technology and your perspective on 538 00:29:27,880 --> 00:29:31,240 Speaker 1: all of these things that UM, the business world actually 539 00:29:31,920 --> 00:29:34,200 Speaker 1: needs a little bit more curation from some of the 540 00:29:34,200 --> 00:29:36,520 Speaker 1: partners that they're working with. One thing that I know 541 00:29:36,600 --> 00:29:39,040 Speaker 1: that you've done at CITYA is actually give a lot 542 00:29:39,080 --> 00:29:43,240 Speaker 1: of executives perspective beyond how they're using their your product 543 00:29:43,440 --> 00:29:46,600 Speaker 1: and really given them a bigger perspective on what content 544 00:29:46,680 --> 00:29:51,760 Speaker 1: actually could do and the difference in communications messaging UM 545 00:29:51,760 --> 00:29:54,400 Speaker 1: and the shift that's kind of happening. So thank you. 546 00:29:54,520 --> 00:29:56,120 Speaker 1: Thanks for coming out. If people want to get in 547 00:29:56,160 --> 00:29:59,200 Speaker 1: touch with you to talk about city and all things 548 00:29:59,200 --> 00:30:03,080 Speaker 1: swipe able con tent Linda at City see I T 549 00:30:03,360 --> 00:30:05,880 Speaker 1: i A dot Com. Thank you Linda for coming on. 550 00:30:06,400 --> 00:30:15,640 Speaker 1: Happy Holiday, Thank you, Happy holidays. What a year, so 551 00:30:15,680 --> 00:30:19,120 Speaker 1: many amazing conversations with so many of the industry's biggest 552 00:30:19,120 --> 00:30:21,760 Speaker 1: game changers. Thank you all for coming on, sharing your 553 00:30:21,800 --> 00:30:24,960 Speaker 1: insights and experiences and helping us move the industry forward. 554 00:30:25,000 --> 00:30:27,160 Speaker 1: And thank you to our audience. This has been an 555 00:30:27,200 --> 00:30:29,920 Speaker 1: amazing year for at Landia and I think what Atlantia 556 00:30:30,040 --> 00:30:33,320 Speaker 1: represents in the marketplace so in we want to talk 557 00:30:33,360 --> 00:30:36,360 Speaker 1: to you more, we want to see you more, we 558 00:30:36,440 --> 00:30:38,840 Speaker 1: want to hear you more. So big thanks to you 559 00:30:38,880 --> 00:30:42,440 Speaker 1: at Lantia listeners. Big thanks for our producer Dana, all 560 00:30:42,440 --> 00:30:45,440 Speaker 1: of our friends and family at Pattivelee. Happy holidays, Laura, 561 00:30:45,520 --> 00:30:52,320 Speaker 1: love you, same to you. We'll be back in twenty MM. 562 00:30:53,200 --> 00:30:55,080 Speaker 1: Full disclosure. Our opinions are our own.