WEBVTT - Elon on the Spot, Grok Has a Week 0:00:02.520 --> 0:00:07.080 Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news. 0:00:07.960 --> 0:00:09.520 Let me tell you we have a new star. 0:00:10.520 --> 0:00:11.959 A star is born Elon. 0:00:12.640 --> 0:00:14.640 I'm on Mars juleson a Kenemy. 0:00:14.920 --> 0:00:15.520 He is the. 0:00:15.480 --> 0:00:18.520 Thomas Edison plus plus plus of our age. 0:00:18.680 --> 0:00:21.040 Probably his whole life's from a position of insecurity. 0:00:21.079 --> 0:00:21.800 I feel for the guy. 0:00:22.040 --> 0:00:25.319 I would say ninety eight percent, really appreciate what he DOESK. 0:00:25.400 --> 0:00:28.760 But those two that are nasty, they are I'll pit 0:00:28.840 --> 0:00:31.680 in four close. We're meant for great things in the 0:00:31.760 --> 0:00:34.599 United States of America, and Elon reminds us of. 0:00:34.520 --> 0:00:39.080 That we don't have a fourth branch of governments called 0:00:39.159 --> 0:00:40.000 Elon must. 0:00:46.640 --> 0:00:49.720 Welcome to Elon K, Bloomberg's weekly podcast about Elon Musk. 0:00:49.760 --> 0:00:53.840 It's Tuesday, May twentieth. I'm your host, David Papadopolos, sitting 0:00:53.920 --> 0:00:58.480 here in the studio with my main man, Max Chafkin. Hellodio, Max, 0:00:59.360 --> 0:01:03.120 I'm doing all right. So Max, we just watched our 0:01:03.160 --> 0:01:07.800 colleague Michelle Hussein interview Elon at Bloomberg's Cutter Economic Form like. 0:01:07.800 --> 0:01:10.560 Our super bawl Bloomberg. Hey, you know we finally got 0:01:10.600 --> 0:01:11.360 to interview him. 0:01:11.560 --> 0:01:14.320 I gotta say it got a little sporty at times. 0:01:14.400 --> 0:01:18.160 It did, although I think Michelle did a really good 0:01:18.240 --> 0:01:22.640 job in a difficult setting. I think people should check 0:01:22.680 --> 0:01:25.679 the entire interview out themselves if they haven't. You know, 0:01:25.720 --> 0:01:29.039 you're in this room full of investors. This is, as 0:01:29.080 --> 0:01:31.800 you said just before we start taping, a home crowd. 0:01:31.840 --> 0:01:34.320 This is a crew that is prime to like Elon Musk, 0:01:34.560 --> 0:01:36.840 also prime to think. You know that many of the 0:01:36.880 --> 0:01:39.840 issues that i'd say, like a normal person maybe cares about, like, 0:01:39.959 --> 0:01:42.280 is Elon Musk gonna, you know, mess up the function 0:01:42.319 --> 0:01:44.680 of the US government or whatever, Like the guys who 0:01:44.760 --> 0:01:47.600 run sovereign wealth funds not necessarily super concerned with that. 0:01:47.640 --> 0:01:50.760 They're thinking about, Hey, this is an amazing innovator. He's 0:01:50.800 --> 0:01:53.800 creating these great companies. I want access to him. That 0:01:53.840 --> 0:01:56.520 creates a weird dynamic. Also, Elon Musk was on zoom, 0:01:56.880 --> 0:01:59.800 so you have this sort of weird He's in the right, yes, Starling, 0:02:00.040 --> 0:02:03.040 Oh yeah, bias, Darlink. He was gotta get that plug in, 0:02:03.160 --> 0:02:06.960 please to say. And of course he was kind of hostile, right, 0:02:07.040 --> 0:02:10.600 he wasn't loving some of the questions that I think, 0:02:10.600 --> 0:02:13.160 from my point of view were pretty straightforward in journalistic 0:02:13.200 --> 0:02:14.760 but Elon Musk not pleased. 0:02:14.960 --> 0:02:19.560 Yeah, he got very animated about Tesla protests, the stock price, 0:02:19.840 --> 0:02:24.280 does South Africa, Bill Gates politics. So we're going to 0:02:24.440 --> 0:02:28.600 use the first half of the episode today to go 0:02:28.639 --> 0:02:32.440 through and dissect all that. Do note that separately, for 0:02:32.520 --> 0:02:35.400 those of you who do not catch the interview live, 0:02:35.760 --> 0:02:38.200 you can find it in the feed here. We are 0:02:38.360 --> 0:02:40.960 separately breaking it out in its entirety so you can 0:02:41.040 --> 0:02:42.720 listen to it there. And then the second half of 0:02:42.760 --> 0:02:44.440 the show, we're going to go through the roller coaster 0:02:44.560 --> 0:02:49.640 week that Xai's Groc has gone through. Max. As I 0:02:49.840 --> 0:02:53.120 sometimes say on this show, there's very little of what 0:02:53.280 --> 0:02:56.600 Grog did this past week that I understand. I'm counting 0:02:56.600 --> 0:02:59.960 on you, sir, to help me and our listeners under 0:03:00.080 --> 0:03:01.960 stand at all. But we're not going to do that 0:03:02.080 --> 0:03:06.000 quite yet. For now, we go back to Cutter and 0:03:06.040 --> 0:03:09.799 we're going to listen right off the bat to one 0:03:09.840 --> 0:03:14.000 of the highlights of the interview where Musk is responding 0:03:14.240 --> 0:03:18.040 to Michelle, where she asked him about his involvement going 0:03:18.080 --> 0:03:21.800 forward in politics and the political donations he would be making. 0:03:22.040 --> 0:03:24.200 You spent a lot more money on the last US 0:03:24.280 --> 0:03:27.240 election than you envisaged when you were speaking here three 0:03:27.320 --> 0:03:30.600 years ago. Are you going to continue to spend at 0:03:30.600 --> 0:03:33.919 that kind of level on future elections? 0:03:35.200 --> 0:03:39.080 I think in terms of political spending, I'm going to 0:03:39.120 --> 0:03:40.360 do a lot less in the future. 0:03:41.680 --> 0:03:42.320 And why is that? 0:03:44.720 --> 0:03:45.640 I think I've done enough? 0:03:48.880 --> 0:03:50.720 Is it because of blowback? 0:03:52.040 --> 0:03:54.720 Well, if I see a reason do political spending in 0:03:54.720 --> 0:03:55.680 the future, I will do it. 0:03:55.960 --> 0:03:57.200 I don't I currently see reason. 0:03:57.760 --> 0:03:59.760 Actually, Max, before you comment on that, I got to 0:03:59.760 --> 0:04:01.400 say I got to set the scene a little bit 0:04:01.400 --> 0:04:05.920 here Musk rocking as he often does, the leather bomber jacket. 0:04:06.200 --> 0:04:08.440 We need leather bomber jackets for this show. 0:04:08.640 --> 0:04:11.080 Was it leather? I couldn't. It looks like it might 0:04:11.160 --> 0:04:12.360 be like a. 0:04:12.360 --> 0:04:14.960 Canvas thing with a sheerling collar. I want to talk 0:04:15.000 --> 0:04:17.320 about his facial hair while we're while we're doing the 0:04:17.560 --> 0:04:19.800 Oh he was. It was kind of like he was 0:04:19.839 --> 0:04:22.120 sort of unshaven but sort of patchy. 0:04:22.240 --> 0:04:22.719 I don't know. 0:04:23.200 --> 0:04:25.440 It kind of gave for me like nineteen year old 0:04:25.520 --> 0:04:28.799 relief pitcher just called up to the majors. But nonetheless, yeah, 0:04:28.839 --> 0:04:29.880 an interesting look from me. 0:04:29.960 --> 0:04:32.880 Long So all the sense was on this show and 0:04:32.920 --> 0:04:35.560 from what I've read elsewhere that know what we saw 0:04:36.000 --> 0:04:39.279 in twenty twenty four, especially given the success he had, 0:04:39.760 --> 0:04:43.560 notwithstanding the setback in Wisconsin early twenty twenty five, that 0:04:43.880 --> 0:04:45.520 you know it was going to be more and more 0:04:45.560 --> 0:04:48.400 and more. Do we take him at face value here, 0:04:48.400 --> 0:04:49.640 mister Jeffkins, so this. 0:04:49.720 --> 0:04:55.440 Is the headline of the of the interviews, are already 0:04:55.680 --> 0:04:59.160 pushing this out Elon Musk saying that he is going 0:04:59.200 --> 0:05:05.479 to spend substantially less in the future. Unclear in that 0:05:05.560 --> 0:05:07.840 in the you know, in terms of how he interpreted 0:05:07.880 --> 0:05:10.920 the question, whether he's talking about the midterms or the 0:05:10.960 --> 0:05:13.560 long run future. I think you need to take this 0:05:13.640 --> 0:05:16.000 with like a huge grain of salt for sort of 0:05:16.040 --> 0:05:20.360 two reasons. One is maybe three actually okay. One is 0:05:20.400 --> 0:05:23.080 the mid terms costs less than the general election. So 0:05:23.120 --> 0:05:25.840 if he were not like spending. 0:05:25.600 --> 0:05:28.440 Yeah, you spend sixty percent less and it's or seventy yeah, And. 0:05:28.400 --> 0:05:31.279 If he were not spending substantially less like that, that 0:05:31.320 --> 0:05:37.039 would be surprising. Number two is this is probably just 0:05:37.360 --> 0:05:39.839 a negotiating position. And you kind of heard it in 0:05:39.920 --> 0:05:43.560 the answer, right he said, unless I see a good reason, right, 0:05:43.600 --> 0:05:47.960 like he is negotiating with with Donald Trump and the Republicans. Right, 0:05:48.000 --> 0:05:51.360 there's lots of stuff that Elon Musk wants to happen. 0:05:51.760 --> 0:05:55.640 That is at this point unrealized. The Artemis program, the 0:05:55.680 --> 0:05:57.760 program that Elon Musk would very much like to be 0:05:57.800 --> 0:05:59.880 a Mars program, is still a Moon program. 0:06:00.120 --> 0:06:00.279 You know. 0:06:00.360 --> 0:06:02.760 His driverless cars, which are in kind of a legal 0:06:02.800 --> 0:06:05.760 gray area, were in i llegal gray area, remain in. 0:06:05.720 --> 0:06:06.960 A legal gray area, right. 0:06:07.120 --> 0:06:10.040 Like he's he's affected a lot of change, but there 0:06:10.040 --> 0:06:14.320 are many areas where he maybe has not realized all 0:06:14.360 --> 0:06:16.200 the things he would like to realize, And it would 0:06:16.240 --> 0:06:19.480 not be to his advantage to say publicly, yeah, I'm 0:06:19.480 --> 0:06:21.440 going to I'm going I'm all in on Trump. 0:06:21.480 --> 0:06:24.040 So this is a statement directed at them and I 0:06:24.080 --> 0:06:24.280 want to. 0:06:24.480 --> 0:06:27.480 And there's a third reason, which is that he's facing 0:06:27.960 --> 0:06:31.760 tons of blowback politically over his connection to Donald Trump. 0:06:31.760 --> 0:06:34.160 We've seen all sorts of ways in which he's trying 0:06:34.640 --> 0:06:37.839 to create a little bit of distance. So sort of 0:06:37.960 --> 0:06:40.800 throwing cold water on donations, it would be one of those. 0:06:41.080 --> 0:06:44.279 I want to remind you that while he. 0:06:44.240 --> 0:06:48.640 Was making massive donations to Donald Trump, he was denying. 0:06:48.960 --> 0:06:51.920 We had podcasts about this. Remember the Wall Street Journal 0:06:51.920 --> 0:06:52.880 in Bloomberg. 0:06:52.520 --> 0:06:54.920 Reported that he was going to give something like forty 0:06:54.920 --> 0:06:58.239 five million dollars a month to Donald Trump. He actually 0:06:58.320 --> 0:07:01.039 gave substantially more to that, more than that that was, 0:07:01.839 --> 0:07:04.800 and all Musk was like, Oh, it's way way less. 0:07:04.600 --> 0:07:05.480 Nowhere near forty. 0:07:05.560 --> 0:07:08.080 You know. He denied it the whole way until it 0:07:08.120 --> 0:07:11.520 basically became obvious that he was in fact spending these 0:07:11.600 --> 0:07:13.960 huge sums of money. So I don't think we should 0:07:13.960 --> 0:07:16.120 take this especially seriously. The one thing I'll say is 0:07:16.440 --> 0:07:18.400 he didn't have to say this, right, He could have. 0:07:18.640 --> 0:07:21.920 He could have just not said anything or you know. So, 0:07:21.920 --> 0:07:25.160 so I think coming out and putting or attempting to 0:07:25.200 --> 0:07:27.960 put the tiniest bit of distance between himself and the 0:07:28.000 --> 0:07:31.760 Trump administration, that's significant. I don't know that it means 0:07:32.240 --> 0:07:35.600 that Republicans should start looking for another mega donor. 0:07:35.640 --> 0:07:37.760 It probably means they need to just call up Elon Musk, 0:07:38.360 --> 0:07:38.680 and he. 0:07:38.680 --> 0:07:45.920 Wants that separation, specifically as part of his attempt to 0:07:46.000 --> 0:07:50.400 restore the Tesla brand and turn Tesla sales around him. 0:07:50.440 --> 0:07:50.640 Yeah. 0:07:50.840 --> 0:07:54.080 So, despite what he said on stage, but like we 0:07:54.160 --> 0:07:57.240 all know that Musk's sort of political associations have been 0:07:57.320 --> 0:08:00.800 damaging to his companies. If you you are the number 0:08:00.800 --> 0:08:04.000 one donor for the political party that is that is 0:08:04.040 --> 0:08:07.000 currently in power, and you know, as a result, attracting 0:08:07.040 --> 0:08:10.640 lots of heat and controversy. You know, it's it's maybe 0:08:10.680 --> 0:08:13.320 not to your advantage to highlight that you are the 0:08:13.440 --> 0:08:15.800 number one donor the other the other reason I. 0:08:15.800 --> 0:08:19.640 Say, can I point out, though he contends he did 0:08:19.760 --> 0:08:23.720 in the interview, that while he is losing Tesla buyers 0:08:23.800 --> 0:08:26.600 on the left, he is gaining them on the right, 0:08:27.080 --> 0:08:31.040 which strikes me as plausible enough. And we've talked about it. 0:08:31.040 --> 0:08:32.320 The question is, for. 0:08:32.200 --> 0:08:35.520 Every plausible see it in the cyber truck sales. 0:08:35.800 --> 0:08:39.360 No, it's plausible that you're gaining some. But for every 0:08:39.400 --> 0:08:41.319 ten you're losing on the left, how many of you 0:08:41.320 --> 0:08:43.720 are gaining on the right. That is the question. And 0:08:43.760 --> 0:08:45.520 he did not get into that detail. But what he 0:08:45.600 --> 0:08:51.240 did speak at length about was his take on the 0:08:51.280 --> 0:08:55.319 Tesla protests and how he sees them and how upset 0:08:55.400 --> 0:08:57.080 he has been about them. Let's listen to that. 0:08:57.480 --> 0:08:59.199 I'm not someone who's ever committed violence. 0:09:00.040 --> 0:09:04.480 That massive violence was committed against my companies, massive violence 0:09:04.559 --> 0:09:05.560 was threatened against me. 0:09:07.200 --> 0:09:12.000 Who are these people? Why would they do that? How 0:09:12.000 --> 0:09:12.760 wrong can they be? 0:09:13.320 --> 0:09:16.400 They're on the wrong, on the wrong side of history. 0:09:16.480 --> 0:09:18.760 And that's an evil thing to do, to go and 0:09:18.840 --> 0:09:24.800 damage some pointocent person's car to threaten to kill me. 0:09:26.160 --> 0:09:28.960 What's wrong are these people? I have not harmed anyone, 0:09:31.280 --> 0:09:35.120 so something needs to be done about them. And a 0:09:35.200 --> 0:09:37.959 number of them are going to prison and they deserve it. 0:09:39.480 --> 0:09:45.040 You're well, you're referring to the attacks on Tesla's showrooms, but. 0:09:45.080 --> 0:09:49.120 I think, yeah, well, let's into showrooms and burning down 0:09:49.200 --> 0:09:52.400 causes unacceptable. Those people will go to prison, and the 0:09:52.400 --> 0:09:54.920 people that funded them and organized them will also go 0:09:54.960 --> 0:09:55.400 to prison. 0:09:55.920 --> 0:09:57.920 Don't worry, wouldn't you coming for you? 0:09:58.480 --> 0:10:00.400 That by the way, at the end, that we're coming 0:10:00.480 --> 0:10:03.760 for you. For those of you ever seen those old 0:10:03.960 --> 0:10:08.400 US Army ads, Uncle Sam, we want you pointing that 0:10:08.480 --> 0:10:12.040 big finger, you know, out sticking it out like we're 0:10:12.080 --> 0:10:14.760 coming for you. That's essentially how he delivered it. You 0:10:14.800 --> 0:10:17.319 can hear. Actually, though, Max, I like a lot of 0:10:17.400 --> 0:10:23.320 hurt and pain there in watching his brand in many 0:10:23.360 --> 0:10:25.760 states across the country get burned down. 0:10:26.440 --> 0:10:29.640 It's interesting because there are actually two issues happening. One 0:10:29.720 --> 0:10:35.959 is there is this as Elon Musk talked about the vandalism, 0:10:37.080 --> 0:10:41.439 threatened violence, whatever, the sort of like the kind of craziness, 0:10:41.520 --> 0:10:45.800 the kind of extreme reactions that some people have had 0:10:45.840 --> 0:10:47.959 to Tesla and the idea that Tesla is like now 0:10:47.960 --> 0:10:49.160 a target for vandalism. 0:10:49.640 --> 0:10:52.200 But then the bigger problem, and the thing that. 0:10:52.840 --> 0:10:56.840 She actually asked about was the was people just not 0:10:56.840 --> 0:10:59.840 buying Tesla's right, right. The risk of Tesla is not 0:11:00.080 --> 0:11:05.160 that like some crazy person tries to like vandalize a 0:11:05.240 --> 0:11:09.040 random cyber truck. The risk is that just normal pickup 0:11:09.080 --> 0:11:12.640 truck drivers don't buy cyber trucks. They just buy fifties, 0:11:12.760 --> 0:11:15.760 not because not necessarily because they're afraid of being vandalized, 0:11:15.800 --> 0:11:17.760 just because they think the brand is lame. 0:11:17.880 --> 0:11:19.719 And that's where I don't I don't know that. 0:11:19.800 --> 0:11:24.920 Like pose it like this kind of extremely aggrieved, like 0:11:25.679 --> 0:11:28.439 borderline vindictive, We're coming for you, pose. 0:11:28.240 --> 0:11:30.840 Like I don't know that it helps, Like I think. 0:11:30.720 --> 0:11:35.240 Most consumers don't really want to be part of this. 0:11:35.520 --> 0:11:36.839 I want to get caught up on that whole thing. 0:11:36.960 --> 0:11:38.600 I don't know that it helps either, But I do 0:11:38.640 --> 0:11:41.280 think it is a window into where he's at right now. 0:11:41.320 --> 0:11:43.920 He does. I think he legit feels agreed as he 0:11:44.000 --> 0:11:46.640 sees this brand that he created get torn down like that. 0:11:46.720 --> 0:11:49.520 But he tells us at the same time in this interview, 0:11:49.559 --> 0:11:55.880 Max that don't worry about our sales. They're already roaring around. 0:11:56.120 --> 0:11:57.120 So let's listen to that. 0:11:57.520 --> 0:12:00.800 I've just been looking at the sales figures or Europe 0:12:00.840 --> 0:12:04.840 in April would show very significant declines in the big markets. 0:12:05.679 --> 0:12:09.200 Europe is our weakness market. We're stronger everywhere else. So 0:12:10.160 --> 0:12:13.600 our sales are doing well at this point. We don't 0:12:13.760 --> 0:12:18.680 anticipate any meaningful sales shortfall. And the you know the 0:12:19.000 --> 0:12:22.920 obviously the stock market recognizes that since we're now back 0:12:22.920 --> 0:12:25.960 over a trillion dollars in market caps, so clearly the 0:12:26.000 --> 0:12:27.160 market is aware of. 0:12:27.160 --> 0:12:29.280 The situation, so it's already turned around. 0:12:29.480 --> 0:12:32.840 It's interesting he cites the stock as the barometer. The 0:12:32.880 --> 0:12:35.480 stock market knows our sales are doing great. That's why 0:12:35.480 --> 0:12:36.960 the stock is back up. And to be clear, the 0:12:37.040 --> 0:12:41.079 stock has indeed rebounded some fifty percent since hitting its 0:12:41.120 --> 0:12:44.120 lows in March. Not entirely clear to me, Max, how 0:12:44.200 --> 0:12:46.520 much exactly the stock market knows and what it knows 0:12:46.559 --> 0:12:47.400 about Tesla sales. 0:12:47.480 --> 0:12:49.959 Yeah, this is nonsense, as Elon Musk knows because he 0:12:50.000 --> 0:12:52.720 said it all the time, and Michelle Hussein brought this 0:12:52.800 --> 0:12:54.960 up an interview for what it's worth. But like the 0:12:55.040 --> 0:12:59.040 stock price does not mean that the market knows what 0:12:59.120 --> 0:13:02.560 the sales are. The market is betting on Tesla's future, 0:13:02.600 --> 0:13:04.840 as we've talked about many times. They're talking about optimists 0:13:04.840 --> 0:13:08.600 and the driverless cars, and Elon Musk himself has said, 0:13:08.720 --> 0:13:12.000 you know, don't don't pay attention to Tesla sales. Regular 0:13:12.040 --> 0:13:14.000 cars are going away like not. You know, if you're 0:13:14.000 --> 0:13:17.480 an investor, you're paying attention to these like monthly sales fluctuations, 0:13:17.520 --> 0:13:21.199 You're you're missing the big picture, you know. I guess 0:13:21.240 --> 0:13:23.720 we'll see. I mean, I think it's very easy for 0:13:23.800 --> 0:13:26.960 him to say, like things are turned around starting right now. 0:13:27.320 --> 0:13:31.200 I think there's like a cohort of investors who are 0:13:31.600 --> 0:13:34.520 are going to buy that. But outside of Elon Musk 0:13:34.559 --> 0:13:38.640 making these claims, there is nothing in data, publicly available data, 0:13:38.720 --> 0:13:42.400 third party data, independent data that I have seen that 0:13:42.600 --> 0:13:43.200 backs at up. 0:13:43.280 --> 0:13:45.960 Well. Right, Well, maybe he's telling you Max that he 0:13:46.080 --> 0:13:48.040 knows something pal that you don't know. 0:13:48.640 --> 0:13:50.240 Maybe, yeah, that's what he does. 0:13:50.400 --> 0:13:53.640 Right, He's he's got a secret plan to fix Tesla, 0:13:53.760 --> 0:13:55.520 and it's and to grow it into a thirty trillion 0:13:55.559 --> 0:13:56.720 dollar company or whatever. 0:13:57.000 --> 0:14:01.080 And that's kind of been his pose for a huge 0:14:01.120 --> 0:14:01.400 part of. 0:14:01.360 --> 0:14:04.720 The company's history, and what has allowed him to sort 0:14:04.720 --> 0:14:06.480 of make that work is that there are a lot 0:14:06.480 --> 0:14:07.640 of investors who buy it. 0:14:07.640 --> 0:14:09.719 It is true, though, I actually hadn't thought about this 0:14:09.800 --> 0:14:11.360 is why we have you on the show. You're always 0:14:11.440 --> 0:14:14.080 two three steps ahead. I hadn't thought about the irony 0:14:14.160 --> 0:14:18.000 of he is always trying, indeed to tell people forget 0:14:18.040 --> 0:14:20.680 about the cars and the car sales. We're about optimists, 0:14:20.680 --> 0:14:24.640 we're about AI, we're about robotaxi, all these things, and 0:14:24.680 --> 0:14:27.320 that's what the stock reflects. And now that the stock 0:14:27.400 --> 0:14:31.600 is popping rebounding, And to be clear, much of the 0:14:31.640 --> 0:14:33.480 Tesla stock rebound. 0:14:33.200 --> 0:14:34.960 Is has to do with the trade war. 0:14:35.080 --> 0:14:39.000 Yeah, the broader rebound in the stock market, but he says, ah, 0:14:39.320 --> 0:14:43.480 the stock market rebound is a testament to just how 0:14:43.560 --> 0:14:45.560 much our sales are coming back. Of course, the data 0:14:45.720 --> 0:14:48.320 publicly available data for May will be out soon and 0:14:48.400 --> 0:14:50.440 often we'll have a greater sense then. 0:14:55.160 --> 0:14:55.520 Okay. 0:14:55.760 --> 0:14:57.720 There was also a fair amount of back and forth 0:14:57.840 --> 0:15:01.560 on the dose shavings produce so far. Michelle was pointing 0:15:01.560 --> 0:15:04.640 out that so far doge As has come up with 0:15:04.680 --> 0:15:09.640 what one hundred and seventy billion, give or take, which 0:15:09.680 --> 0:15:12.840 is a fair amount less than the two trillion dollar 0:15:13.000 --> 0:15:16.720 target must get set for Doge must set at one 0:15:16.800 --> 0:15:19.960 point to her, and again he clearly got worked up 0:15:19.960 --> 0:15:22.520 at several times in this interview. He said to her, 0:15:22.960 --> 0:15:27.040 your question is absurd. Have we not made good progress? 0:15:27.560 --> 0:15:30.360 We do not make the laws, nor do we control 0:15:30.720 --> 0:15:35.080 the judiciary, nor do we control the executive branch. We 0:15:35.160 --> 0:15:39.239 are simply advisors. In that context, we're doing very well. Nonetheless, 0:15:39.520 --> 0:15:44.280 let's not criticize whether there's a four trillion and instead 0:15:44.600 --> 0:15:46.720 look at the fact that that hundred and sixty billion 0:15:46.760 --> 0:15:48.520 has been saved and more will we save two. 0:15:49.280 --> 0:15:52.520 There's this weird dance right where anytime Elon Musk talks 0:15:52.560 --> 0:15:58.240 about the Trump administration, where he wants to simultaneously give 0:15:58.320 --> 0:16:01.360 himself credit, give himself as much agency as possible, because 0:16:01.360 --> 0:16:03.120 that's kind of how he works, right. He likes to 0:16:03.120 --> 0:16:05.920 be the decider. He wants to be the one in 0:16:05.960 --> 0:16:09.440 the design studio making the calls. And at the same time, 0:16:10.160 --> 0:16:13.280 legally politically, there are all sorts of reasons why that 0:16:13.440 --> 0:16:17.360 is not advantageous. It's not advantageous to claim. And you 0:16:17.400 --> 0:16:21.520 heard him say in this interview. Well, the problem is Congress. 0:16:21.560 --> 0:16:24.760 Congress has to do this stuff, and I think we're serving. 0:16:24.480 --> 0:16:25.840 Went on at the end of that to say and 0:16:25.960 --> 0:16:29.040 the executive brand, Yeah yeah, which and this. 0:16:29.120 --> 0:16:32.200 Is why, like I remember when the dose things started, 0:16:32.200 --> 0:16:33.200 you were very high on it. 0:16:33.240 --> 0:16:35.240 You were sort of saying, thought they were going to change. 0:16:36.360 --> 0:16:38.520 Yeah you well not just that, but you thought, like 0:16:38.680 --> 0:16:40.280 he's going to actually cut some costs. 0:16:40.320 --> 0:16:43.800 We're in this moment for real austerity. 0:16:44.200 --> 0:16:47.000 Like I just could feel all the bond traders behind 0:16:47.040 --> 0:16:48.320 you celebrating. 0:16:49.000 --> 0:16:50.960 Well, I think I can I read for my position. 0:16:51.040 --> 0:16:55.720 My position was and remains whether Doge ultimately achieves a 0:16:55.800 --> 0:16:59.000 whole heck of a lot or not, that you can 0:16:59.240 --> 0:17:04.119 sell a mess like that right now is not a coincidence. Yeah, 0:17:04.200 --> 0:17:07.639 that was my point. I actually, frankly, I mean, one 0:17:07.720 --> 0:17:09.960 hundred and seventy billion, I don't know if we believe 0:17:10.600 --> 0:17:12.520 one hundred and seventy billion that they say they've cut. 0:17:12.640 --> 0:17:16.480 One hundred and seventy billion is simultaneously an enormous amount 0:17:16.520 --> 0:17:19.480 of money and yet given the size of the deficits 0:17:19.480 --> 0:17:20.880 in this country, very bad. 0:17:20.960 --> 0:17:21.920 That's the whole problem. 0:17:22.040 --> 0:17:23.800 This is why, like it's very hard to be a 0:17:23.840 --> 0:17:27.280 deficit hawk politically, because you could cut a bunch of 0:17:27.280 --> 0:17:30.040 stuff and get a lot of people mad at you, 0:17:30.200 --> 0:17:32.680 and then ultimately not achieve very much and you're. 0:17:32.560 --> 0:17:34.240 Still get downgraded by Moody. 0:17:34.400 --> 0:17:37.480 Yeah, you're suddenly in this uncanny valley where Wall Street 0:17:37.520 --> 0:17:40.080 hates you and the American public hates you. And that's 0:17:40.080 --> 0:17:43.600 why it's so weird that Elon Musk picked this battle 0:17:43.760 --> 0:17:44.359 like he did. 0:17:44.240 --> 0:17:45.040 Not have to pick this. 0:17:45.440 --> 0:17:48.640 He really believes so again, and I think obviously you're 0:17:48.640 --> 0:17:52.840 seeing in this dance why, first of all, why these 0:17:52.840 --> 0:17:57.440 doge cuts are not super popular, or at least doge 0:17:57.600 --> 0:18:01.200 as kind of conceived of and marketed by Elon Musk 0:18:01.240 --> 0:18:03.440 are not super popular. The idea of cutting deficit spending 0:18:03.440 --> 0:18:06.520 in general is popular, and why Donald Trump is kind 0:18:06.560 --> 0:18:09.359 of trying to edge away from this because it doesn't 0:18:09.359 --> 0:18:11.800 seem like this is a winner with voters. I want 0:18:11.800 --> 0:18:15.200 to say one hundred and seventy billion dollars, but three 0:18:15.320 --> 0:18:20.280 hundred and thirty seven thousand, eight hundred words deleted according 0:18:20.320 --> 0:18:22.040 to Yeah. 0:18:21.960 --> 0:18:23.840 What does that mean? Words deleted? What were they? Where 0:18:23.840 --> 0:18:24.760 were they deleted from? 0:18:25.080 --> 0:18:29.359 I guess from federal regulations? And I just want to 0:18:29.400 --> 0:18:32.160 say as a as someone who at times has been 0:18:32.200 --> 0:18:36.040 a professional word deleter, as somebody who's entire job had 0:18:36.200 --> 0:18:39.920 been Yeah, an editor. Three hundred and thirty seven thousand 0:18:40.119 --> 0:18:42.840 words is not that many words like a good word 0:18:42.840 --> 0:18:44.320 deleter probably does that. 0:18:44.560 --> 0:18:47.600 You know in six months? Maybe you know so? So 0:18:47.680 --> 0:18:49.000 I don't know. I feel like they could step up 0:18:49.040 --> 0:18:49.320 their game. 0:18:49.400 --> 0:18:53.000 Okay, so listen Max. There was also a back and 0:18:53.040 --> 0:18:59.520 forth about Musk Starlink apparently breaking into South Africa and 0:18:59.560 --> 0:19:04.240 signing there. That too got pretty sporty. Let's listen to that. 0:19:04.440 --> 0:19:06.399 First of all, you should be questioning why is there 0:19:06.480 --> 0:19:08.600 why that racist laws in South Africa. That's the first 0:19:08.600 --> 0:19:11.720 pot problem. That's what you should be attacking. It's improper 0:19:11.800 --> 0:19:14.120 for they be racist laws in South Africa. The whole 0:19:14.160 --> 0:19:17.200 idea with what Nelson Madela, who is a great man, proposed, 0:19:17.240 --> 0:19:19.560 was that all racist should be on an equal footing 0:19:19.560 --> 0:19:22.000 in South Africa. That's the right thing to do, not 0:19:22.119 --> 0:19:24.240 to replace one set of racist laws with another set 0:19:24.240 --> 0:19:26.960 of racist laws, which is utterly wrong and improper. 0:19:27.400 --> 0:19:28.960 There are now one hundred and forty laws in South 0:19:29.000 --> 0:19:34.879 Africa that give a prep that basically give strong preference 0:19:35.160 --> 0:19:38.440 to you if you're black South African and not otherwise. 0:19:38.560 --> 0:19:40.760 And so now I'm in the subsurd situation where I 0:19:40.800 --> 0:19:42.720 was born in South Africa but cannot get a license 0:19:42.800 --> 0:19:45.480 to operate in Starlink because I'm not black. 0:19:45.560 --> 0:19:48.760 Well, it looks like that's it looks looks like that right, 0:19:48.880 --> 0:19:50.760 it looks like that's about to change. 0:19:51.520 --> 0:19:54.159 I just asked you a question. Please answer. Does that 0:19:54.160 --> 0:19:54.879 seem right to you? 0:19:55.359 --> 0:19:59.760 Well, those rules were designed to bring those rules would 0:19:59.760 --> 0:20:02.959 design to bring about an era of more economic equality 0:20:03.160 --> 0:20:06.199 in South Africa, and it looks like the government has 0:20:06.240 --> 0:20:07.960 found a way around those rules for you. 0:20:09.600 --> 0:20:10.320 Ask your question? 0:20:11.920 --> 0:20:14.560 Is this is your interview? Everyone wants to hear from you, 0:20:15.200 --> 0:20:18.840 yes or no? Not for me to answer that. I 0:20:18.880 --> 0:20:21.919 have got a question for you about about your government 0:20:22.000 --> 0:20:23.560 works and the amount of savings. 0:20:24.119 --> 0:20:25.280 Do you like raceless loves? 0:20:27.520 --> 0:20:29.360 I don't know what to say that, honestly, I mean, 0:20:29.760 --> 0:20:34.680 you know, obviously, these laws in South Africa exist as 0:20:34.720 --> 0:20:39.440