1 00:00:02,520 --> 00:00:07,080 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news. 2 00:00:07,960 --> 00:00:09,520 Speaker 2: Let me tell you we have a new star. 3 00:00:10,520 --> 00:00:11,959 Speaker 3: A star is born Elon. 4 00:00:12,640 --> 00:00:14,640 Speaker 2: I'm on Mars juleson a Kenemy. 5 00:00:14,920 --> 00:00:15,520 Speaker 4: He is the. 6 00:00:15,480 --> 00:00:18,520 Speaker 1: Thomas Edison plus plus plus of our age. 7 00:00:18,680 --> 00:00:21,040 Speaker 3: Probably his whole life's from a position of insecurity. 8 00:00:21,079 --> 00:00:21,800 Speaker 2: I feel for the guy. 9 00:00:22,040 --> 00:00:25,319 Speaker 3: I would say ninety eight percent, really appreciate what he DOESK. 10 00:00:25,400 --> 00:00:28,760 Speaker 5: But those two that are nasty, they are I'll pit 11 00:00:28,840 --> 00:00:31,680 Speaker 5: in four close. We're meant for great things in the 12 00:00:31,760 --> 00:00:34,599 Speaker 5: United States of America, and Elon reminds us of. 13 00:00:34,520 --> 00:00:39,080 Speaker 4: That we don't have a fourth branch of governments called 14 00:00:39,159 --> 00:00:40,000 Speaker 4: Elon must. 15 00:00:46,640 --> 00:00:49,720 Speaker 5: Welcome to Elon K, Bloomberg's weekly podcast about Elon Musk. 16 00:00:49,760 --> 00:00:53,840 Speaker 5: It's Tuesday, May twentieth. I'm your host, David Papadopolos, sitting 17 00:00:53,920 --> 00:00:58,480 Speaker 5: here in the studio with my main man, Max Chafkin. Hellodio, Max, 18 00:00:59,360 --> 00:01:03,120 Speaker 5: I'm doing all right. So Max, we just watched our 19 00:01:03,160 --> 00:01:07,800 Speaker 5: colleague Michelle Hussein interview Elon at Bloomberg's Cutter Economic Form like. 20 00:01:07,800 --> 00:01:10,560 Speaker 4: Our super bawl Bloomberg. Hey, you know we finally got 21 00:01:10,600 --> 00:01:11,360 Speaker 4: to interview him. 22 00:01:11,560 --> 00:01:14,320 Speaker 5: I gotta say it got a little sporty at times. 23 00:01:14,400 --> 00:01:18,160 Speaker 4: It did, although I think Michelle did a really good 24 00:01:18,240 --> 00:01:22,640 Speaker 4: job in a difficult setting. I think people should check 25 00:01:22,680 --> 00:01:25,679 Speaker 4: the entire interview out themselves if they haven't. You know, 26 00:01:25,720 --> 00:01:29,039 Speaker 4: you're in this room full of investors. This is, as 27 00:01:29,080 --> 00:01:31,800 Speaker 4: you said just before we start taping, a home crowd. 28 00:01:31,840 --> 00:01:34,320 Speaker 4: This is a crew that is prime to like Elon Musk, 29 00:01:34,560 --> 00:01:36,840 Speaker 4: also prime to think. You know that many of the 30 00:01:36,880 --> 00:01:39,840 Speaker 4: issues that i'd say, like a normal person maybe cares about, like, 31 00:01:39,959 --> 00:01:42,280 Speaker 4: is Elon Musk gonna, you know, mess up the function 32 00:01:42,319 --> 00:01:44,680 Speaker 4: of the US government or whatever, Like the guys who 33 00:01:44,760 --> 00:01:47,600 Speaker 4: run sovereign wealth funds not necessarily super concerned with that. 34 00:01:47,640 --> 00:01:50,760 Speaker 4: They're thinking about, Hey, this is an amazing innovator. He's 35 00:01:50,800 --> 00:01:53,800 Speaker 4: creating these great companies. I want access to him. That 36 00:01:53,840 --> 00:01:56,520 Speaker 4: creates a weird dynamic. Also, Elon Musk was on zoom, 37 00:01:56,880 --> 00:01:59,800 Speaker 4: so you have this sort of weird He's in the right, yes, Starling, 38 00:02:00,040 --> 00:02:03,040 Speaker 4: Oh yeah, bias, Darlink. He was gotta get that plug in, 39 00:02:03,160 --> 00:02:06,960 Speaker 4: please to say. And of course he was kind of hostile, right, 40 00:02:07,040 --> 00:02:10,600 Speaker 4: he wasn't loving some of the questions that I think, 41 00:02:10,600 --> 00:02:13,160 Speaker 4: from my point of view were pretty straightforward in journalistic 42 00:02:13,200 --> 00:02:14,760 Speaker 4: but Elon Musk not pleased. 43 00:02:14,960 --> 00:02:19,560 Speaker 5: Yeah, he got very animated about Tesla protests, the stock price, 44 00:02:19,840 --> 00:02:24,280 Speaker 5: does South Africa, Bill Gates politics. So we're going to 45 00:02:24,440 --> 00:02:28,600 Speaker 5: use the first half of the episode today to go 46 00:02:28,639 --> 00:02:32,440 Speaker 5: through and dissect all that. Do note that separately, for 47 00:02:32,520 --> 00:02:35,400 Speaker 5: those of you who do not catch the interview live, 48 00:02:35,760 --> 00:02:38,200 Speaker 5: you can find it in the feed here. We are 49 00:02:38,360 --> 00:02:40,960 Speaker 5: separately breaking it out in its entirety so you can 50 00:02:41,040 --> 00:02:42,720 Speaker 5: listen to it there. And then the second half of 51 00:02:42,760 --> 00:02:44,440 Speaker 5: the show, we're going to go through the roller coaster 52 00:02:44,560 --> 00:02:49,640 Speaker 5: week that Xai's Groc has gone through. Max. As I 53 00:02:49,840 --> 00:02:53,120 Speaker 5: sometimes say on this show, there's very little of what 54 00:02:53,280 --> 00:02:56,600 Speaker 5: Grog did this past week that I understand. I'm counting 55 00:02:56,600 --> 00:02:59,960 Speaker 5: on you, sir, to help me and our listeners under 56 00:03:00,080 --> 00:03:01,960 Speaker 5: stand at all. But we're not going to do that 57 00:03:02,080 --> 00:03:06,000 Speaker 5: quite yet. For now, we go back to Cutter and 58 00:03:06,040 --> 00:03:09,799 Speaker 5: we're going to listen right off the bat to one 59 00:03:09,840 --> 00:03:14,000 Speaker 5: of the highlights of the interview where Musk is responding 60 00:03:14,240 --> 00:03:18,040 Speaker 5: to Michelle, where she asked him about his involvement going 61 00:03:18,080 --> 00:03:21,800 Speaker 5: forward in politics and the political donations he would be making. 62 00:03:22,040 --> 00:03:24,200 Speaker 1: You spent a lot more money on the last US 63 00:03:24,280 --> 00:03:27,240 Speaker 1: election than you envisaged when you were speaking here three 64 00:03:27,320 --> 00:03:30,600 Speaker 1: years ago. Are you going to continue to spend at 65 00:03:30,600 --> 00:03:33,919 Speaker 1: that kind of level on future elections? 66 00:03:35,200 --> 00:03:39,080 Speaker 6: I think in terms of political spending, I'm going to 67 00:03:39,120 --> 00:03:40,360 Speaker 6: do a lot less in the future. 68 00:03:41,680 --> 00:03:42,320 Speaker 1: And why is that? 69 00:03:44,720 --> 00:03:45,640 Speaker 2: I think I've done enough? 70 00:03:48,880 --> 00:03:50,720 Speaker 1: Is it because of blowback? 71 00:03:52,040 --> 00:03:54,720 Speaker 6: Well, if I see a reason do political spending in 72 00:03:54,720 --> 00:03:55,680 Speaker 6: the future, I will do it. 73 00:03:55,960 --> 00:03:57,200 Speaker 2: I don't I currently see reason. 74 00:03:57,760 --> 00:03:59,760 Speaker 5: Actually, Max, before you comment on that, I got to 75 00:03:59,760 --> 00:04:01,400 Speaker 5: say I got to set the scene a little bit 76 00:04:01,400 --> 00:04:05,920 Speaker 5: here Musk rocking as he often does, the leather bomber jacket. 77 00:04:06,200 --> 00:04:08,440 Speaker 5: We need leather bomber jackets for this show. 78 00:04:08,640 --> 00:04:11,080 Speaker 3: Was it leather? I couldn't. It looks like it might 79 00:04:11,160 --> 00:04:12,360 Speaker 3: be like a. 80 00:04:12,360 --> 00:04:14,960 Speaker 4: Canvas thing with a sheerling collar. I want to talk 81 00:04:15,000 --> 00:04:17,320 Speaker 4: about his facial hair while we're while we're doing the 82 00:04:17,560 --> 00:04:19,800 Speaker 4: Oh he was. It was kind of like he was 83 00:04:19,839 --> 00:04:22,120 Speaker 4: sort of unshaven but sort of patchy. 84 00:04:22,240 --> 00:04:22,719 Speaker 3: I don't know. 85 00:04:23,200 --> 00:04:25,440 Speaker 4: It kind of gave for me like nineteen year old 86 00:04:25,520 --> 00:04:28,799 Speaker 4: relief pitcher just called up to the majors. But nonetheless, yeah, 87 00:04:28,839 --> 00:04:29,880 Speaker 4: an interesting look from me. 88 00:04:29,960 --> 00:04:32,880 Speaker 5: Long So all the sense was on this show and 89 00:04:32,920 --> 00:04:35,560 Speaker 5: from what I've read elsewhere that know what we saw 90 00:04:36,000 --> 00:04:39,279 Speaker 5: in twenty twenty four, especially given the success he had, 91 00:04:39,760 --> 00:04:43,560 Speaker 5: notwithstanding the setback in Wisconsin early twenty twenty five, that 92 00:04:43,880 --> 00:04:45,520 Speaker 5: you know it was going to be more and more 93 00:04:45,560 --> 00:04:48,400 Speaker 5: and more. Do we take him at face value here, 94 00:04:48,400 --> 00:04:49,640 Speaker 5: mister Jeffkins, so this. 95 00:04:49,720 --> 00:04:55,440 Speaker 4: Is the headline of the of the interviews, are already 96 00:04:55,680 --> 00:04:59,160 Speaker 4: pushing this out Elon Musk saying that he is going 97 00:04:59,200 --> 00:05:05,479 Speaker 4: to spend substantially less in the future. Unclear in that 98 00:05:05,560 --> 00:05:07,840 Speaker 4: in the you know, in terms of how he interpreted 99 00:05:07,880 --> 00:05:10,920 Speaker 4: the question, whether he's talking about the midterms or the 100 00:05:10,960 --> 00:05:13,560 Speaker 4: long run future. I think you need to take this 101 00:05:13,640 --> 00:05:16,000 Speaker 4: with like a huge grain of salt for sort of 102 00:05:16,040 --> 00:05:20,360 Speaker 4: two reasons. One is maybe three actually okay. One is 103 00:05:20,400 --> 00:05:23,080 Speaker 4: the mid terms costs less than the general election. So 104 00:05:23,120 --> 00:05:25,840 Speaker 4: if he were not like spending. 105 00:05:25,600 --> 00:05:28,440 Speaker 5: Yeah, you spend sixty percent less and it's or seventy yeah, And. 106 00:05:28,400 --> 00:05:31,279 Speaker 4: If he were not spending substantially less like that, that 107 00:05:31,320 --> 00:05:37,039 Speaker 4: would be surprising. Number two is this is probably just 108 00:05:37,360 --> 00:05:39,839 Speaker 4: a negotiating position. And you kind of heard it in 109 00:05:39,920 --> 00:05:43,560 Speaker 4: the answer, right he said, unless I see a good reason, right, 110 00:05:43,600 --> 00:05:47,960 Speaker 4: like he is negotiating with with Donald Trump and the Republicans. Right, 111 00:05:48,000 --> 00:05:51,360 Speaker 4: there's lots of stuff that Elon Musk wants to happen. 112 00:05:51,760 --> 00:05:55,640 Speaker 4: That is at this point unrealized. The Artemis program, the 113 00:05:55,680 --> 00:05:57,760 Speaker 4: program that Elon Musk would very much like to be 114 00:05:57,800 --> 00:05:59,880 Speaker 4: a Mars program, is still a Moon program. 115 00:06:00,120 --> 00:06:00,279 Speaker 3: You know. 116 00:06:00,360 --> 00:06:02,760 Speaker 4: His driverless cars, which are in kind of a legal 117 00:06:02,800 --> 00:06:05,760 Speaker 4: gray area, were in i llegal gray area, remain in. 118 00:06:05,720 --> 00:06:06,960 Speaker 3: A legal gray area, right. 119 00:06:07,120 --> 00:06:10,040 Speaker 4: Like he's he's affected a lot of change, but there 120 00:06:10,040 --> 00:06:14,320 Speaker 4: are many areas where he maybe has not realized all 121 00:06:14,360 --> 00:06:16,200 Speaker 4: the things he would like to realize, And it would 122 00:06:16,240 --> 00:06:19,480 Speaker 4: not be to his advantage to say publicly, yeah, I'm 123 00:06:19,480 --> 00:06:21,440 Speaker 4: going to I'm going I'm all in on Trump. 124 00:06:21,480 --> 00:06:24,040 Speaker 5: So this is a statement directed at them and I 125 00:06:24,080 --> 00:06:24,280 Speaker 5: want to. 126 00:06:24,480 --> 00:06:27,480 Speaker 4: And there's a third reason, which is that he's facing 127 00:06:27,960 --> 00:06:31,760 Speaker 4: tons of blowback politically over his connection to Donald Trump. 128 00:06:31,760 --> 00:06:34,160 Speaker 4: We've seen all sorts of ways in which he's trying 129 00:06:34,640 --> 00:06:37,839 Speaker 4: to create a little bit of distance. So sort of 130 00:06:37,960 --> 00:06:40,800 Speaker 4: throwing cold water on donations, it would be one of those. 131 00:06:41,080 --> 00:06:44,279 Speaker 3: I want to remind you that while he. 132 00:06:44,240 --> 00:06:48,640 Speaker 4: Was making massive donations to Donald Trump, he was denying. 133 00:06:48,960 --> 00:06:51,920 Speaker 3: We had podcasts about this. Remember the Wall Street Journal 134 00:06:51,920 --> 00:06:52,880 Speaker 3: in Bloomberg. 135 00:06:52,520 --> 00:06:54,920 Speaker 4: Reported that he was going to give something like forty 136 00:06:54,920 --> 00:06:58,239 Speaker 4: five million dollars a month to Donald Trump. He actually 137 00:06:58,320 --> 00:07:01,039 Speaker 4: gave substantially more to that, more than that that was, 138 00:07:01,839 --> 00:07:04,800 Speaker 4: and all Musk was like, Oh, it's way way less. 139 00:07:04,600 --> 00:07:05,480 Speaker 3: Nowhere near forty. 140 00:07:05,560 --> 00:07:08,080 Speaker 4: You know. He denied it the whole way until it 141 00:07:08,120 --> 00:07:11,520 Speaker 4: basically became obvious that he was in fact spending these 142 00:07:11,600 --> 00:07:13,960 Speaker 4: huge sums of money. So I don't think we should 143 00:07:13,960 --> 00:07:16,120 Speaker 4: take this especially seriously. The one thing I'll say is 144 00:07:16,440 --> 00:07:18,400 Speaker 4: he didn't have to say this, right, He could have. 145 00:07:18,640 --> 00:07:21,920 Speaker 4: He could have just not said anything or you know. So, 146 00:07:21,920 --> 00:07:25,160 Speaker 4: so I think coming out and putting or attempting to 147 00:07:25,200 --> 00:07:27,960 Speaker 4: put the tiniest bit of distance between himself and the 148 00:07:28,000 --> 00:07:31,760 Speaker 4: Trump administration, that's significant. I don't know that it means 149 00:07:32,240 --> 00:07:35,600 Speaker 4: that Republicans should start looking for another mega donor. 150 00:07:35,640 --> 00:07:37,760 Speaker 3: It probably means they need to just call up Elon Musk, 151 00:07:38,360 --> 00:07:38,680 Speaker 3: and he. 152 00:07:38,680 --> 00:07:45,920 Speaker 5: Wants that separation, specifically as part of his attempt to 153 00:07:46,000 --> 00:07:50,400 Speaker 5: restore the Tesla brand and turn Tesla sales around him. 154 00:07:50,440 --> 00:07:50,640 Speaker 3: Yeah. 155 00:07:50,840 --> 00:07:54,080 Speaker 4: So, despite what he said on stage, but like we 156 00:07:54,160 --> 00:07:57,240 Speaker 4: all know that Musk's sort of political associations have been 157 00:07:57,320 --> 00:08:00,800 Speaker 4: damaging to his companies. If you you are the number 158 00:08:00,800 --> 00:08:04,000 Speaker 4: one donor for the political party that is that is 159 00:08:04,040 --> 00:08:07,000 Speaker 4: currently in power, and you know, as a result, attracting 160 00:08:07,040 --> 00:08:10,640 Speaker 4: lots of heat and controversy. You know, it's it's maybe 161 00:08:10,680 --> 00:08:13,320 Speaker 4: not to your advantage to highlight that you are the 162 00:08:13,440 --> 00:08:15,800 Speaker 4: number one donor the other the other reason I. 163 00:08:15,800 --> 00:08:19,640 Speaker 5: Say, can I point out, though he contends he did 164 00:08:19,760 --> 00:08:23,720 Speaker 5: in the interview, that while he is losing Tesla buyers 165 00:08:23,800 --> 00:08:26,600 Speaker 5: on the left, he is gaining them on the right, 166 00:08:27,080 --> 00:08:31,040 Speaker 5: which strikes me as plausible enough. And we've talked about it. 167 00:08:31,040 --> 00:08:32,320 Speaker 5: The question is, for. 168 00:08:32,200 --> 00:08:35,520 Speaker 3: Every plausible see it in the cyber truck sales. 169 00:08:35,800 --> 00:08:39,360 Speaker 5: No, it's plausible that you're gaining some. But for every 170 00:08:39,400 --> 00:08:41,319 Speaker 5: ten you're losing on the left, how many of you 171 00:08:41,320 --> 00:08:43,720 Speaker 5: are gaining on the right. That is the question. And 172 00:08:43,760 --> 00:08:45,520 Speaker 5: he did not get into that detail. But what he 173 00:08:45,600 --> 00:08:51,240 Speaker 5: did speak at length about was his take on the 174 00:08:51,280 --> 00:08:55,319 Speaker 5: Tesla protests and how he sees them and how upset 175 00:08:55,400 --> 00:08:57,080 Speaker 5: he has been about them. Let's listen to that. 176 00:08:57,480 --> 00:08:59,199 Speaker 2: I'm not someone who's ever committed violence. 177 00:09:00,040 --> 00:09:04,480 Speaker 6: That massive violence was committed against my companies, massive violence 178 00:09:04,559 --> 00:09:05,560 Speaker 6: was threatened against me. 179 00:09:07,200 --> 00:09:12,000 Speaker 2: Who are these people? Why would they do that? How 180 00:09:12,000 --> 00:09:12,760 Speaker 2: wrong can they be? 181 00:09:13,320 --> 00:09:16,400 Speaker 6: They're on the wrong, on the wrong side of history. 182 00:09:16,480 --> 00:09:18,760 Speaker 6: And that's an evil thing to do, to go and 183 00:09:18,840 --> 00:09:24,800 Speaker 6: damage some pointocent person's car to threaten to kill me. 184 00:09:26,160 --> 00:09:28,960 Speaker 6: What's wrong are these people? I have not harmed anyone, 185 00:09:31,280 --> 00:09:35,120 Speaker 6: so something needs to be done about them. And a 186 00:09:35,200 --> 00:09:37,959 Speaker 6: number of them are going to prison and they deserve it. 187 00:09:39,480 --> 00:09:45,040 Speaker 1: You're well, you're referring to the attacks on Tesla's showrooms, but. 188 00:09:45,080 --> 00:09:49,120 Speaker 6: I think, yeah, well, let's into showrooms and burning down 189 00:09:49,200 --> 00:09:52,400 Speaker 6: causes unacceptable. Those people will go to prison, and the 190 00:09:52,400 --> 00:09:54,920 Speaker 6: people that funded them and organized them will also go 191 00:09:54,960 --> 00:09:55,400 Speaker 6: to prison. 192 00:09:55,920 --> 00:09:57,920 Speaker 2: Don't worry, wouldn't you coming for you? 193 00:09:58,480 --> 00:10:00,400 Speaker 5: That by the way, at the end, that we're coming 194 00:10:00,480 --> 00:10:03,760 Speaker 5: for you. For those of you ever seen those old 195 00:10:03,960 --> 00:10:08,400 Speaker 5: US Army ads, Uncle Sam, we want you pointing that 196 00:10:08,480 --> 00:10:12,040 Speaker 5: big finger, you know, out sticking it out like we're 197 00:10:12,080 --> 00:10:14,760 Speaker 5: coming for you. That's essentially how he delivered it. You 198 00:10:14,800 --> 00:10:17,319 Speaker 5: can hear. Actually, though, Max, I like a lot of 199 00:10:17,400 --> 00:10:23,320 Speaker 5: hurt and pain there in watching his brand in many 200 00:10:23,360 --> 00:10:25,760 Speaker 5: states across the country get burned down. 201 00:10:26,440 --> 00:10:29,640 Speaker 4: It's interesting because there are actually two issues happening. One 202 00:10:29,720 --> 00:10:35,959 Speaker 4: is there is this as Elon Musk talked about the vandalism, 203 00:10:37,080 --> 00:10:41,439 Speaker 4: threatened violence, whatever, the sort of like the kind of craziness, 204 00:10:41,520 --> 00:10:45,800 Speaker 4: the kind of extreme reactions that some people have had 205 00:10:45,840 --> 00:10:47,959 Speaker 4: to Tesla and the idea that Tesla is like now 206 00:10:47,960 --> 00:10:49,160 Speaker 4: a target for vandalism. 207 00:10:49,640 --> 00:10:52,200 Speaker 3: But then the bigger problem, and the thing that. 208 00:10:52,840 --> 00:10:56,840 Speaker 4: She actually asked about was the was people just not 209 00:10:56,840 --> 00:10:59,840 Speaker 4: buying Tesla's right, right. The risk of Tesla is not 210 00:11:00,080 --> 00:11:05,160 Speaker 4: that like some crazy person tries to like vandalize a 211 00:11:05,240 --> 00:11:09,040 Speaker 4: random cyber truck. The risk is that just normal pickup 212 00:11:09,080 --> 00:11:12,640 Speaker 4: truck drivers don't buy cyber trucks. They just buy fifties, 213 00:11:12,760 --> 00:11:15,760 Speaker 4: not because not necessarily because they're afraid of being vandalized, 214 00:11:15,800 --> 00:11:17,760 Speaker 4: just because they think the brand is lame. 215 00:11:17,880 --> 00:11:19,719 Speaker 3: And that's where I don't I don't know that. 216 00:11:19,800 --> 00:11:24,920 Speaker 4: Like pose it like this kind of extremely aggrieved, like 217 00:11:25,679 --> 00:11:28,439 Speaker 4: borderline vindictive, We're coming for you, pose. 218 00:11:28,240 --> 00:11:30,840 Speaker 3: Like I don't know that it helps, Like I think. 219 00:11:30,720 --> 00:11:35,240 Speaker 4: Most consumers don't really want to be part of this. 220 00:11:35,520 --> 00:11:36,839 Speaker 5: I want to get caught up on that whole thing. 221 00:11:36,960 --> 00:11:38,600 Speaker 5: I don't know that it helps either, But I do 222 00:11:38,640 --> 00:11:41,280 Speaker 5: think it is a window into where he's at right now. 223 00:11:41,320 --> 00:11:43,920 Speaker 5: He does. I think he legit feels agreed as he 224 00:11:44,000 --> 00:11:46,640 Speaker 5: sees this brand that he created get torn down like that. 225 00:11:46,720 --> 00:11:49,520 Speaker 5: But he tells us at the same time in this interview, 226 00:11:49,559 --> 00:11:55,880 Speaker 5: Max that don't worry about our sales. They're already roaring around. 227 00:11:56,120 --> 00:11:57,120 Speaker 5: So let's listen to that. 228 00:11:57,520 --> 00:12:00,800 Speaker 1: I've just been looking at the sales figures or Europe 229 00:12:00,840 --> 00:12:04,840 Speaker 1: in April would show very significant declines in the big markets. 230 00:12:05,679 --> 00:12:09,200 Speaker 6: Europe is our weakness market. We're stronger everywhere else. So 231 00:12:10,160 --> 00:12:13,600 Speaker 6: our sales are doing well at this point. We don't 232 00:12:13,760 --> 00:12:18,680 Speaker 6: anticipate any meaningful sales shortfall. And the you know the 233 00:12:19,000 --> 00:12:22,920 Speaker 6: obviously the stock market recognizes that since we're now back 234 00:12:22,920 --> 00:12:25,960 Speaker 6: over a trillion dollars in market caps, so clearly the 235 00:12:26,000 --> 00:12:27,160 Speaker 6: market is aware of. 236 00:12:27,160 --> 00:12:29,280 Speaker 2: The situation, so it's already turned around. 237 00:12:29,480 --> 00:12:32,840 Speaker 5: It's interesting he cites the stock as the barometer. The 238 00:12:32,880 --> 00:12:35,480 Speaker 5: stock market knows our sales are doing great. That's why 239 00:12:35,480 --> 00:12:36,960 Speaker 5: the stock is back up. And to be clear, the 240 00:12:37,040 --> 00:12:41,079 Speaker 5: stock has indeed rebounded some fifty percent since hitting its 241 00:12:41,120 --> 00:12:44,120 Speaker 5: lows in March. Not entirely clear to me, Max, how 242 00:12:44,200 --> 00:12:46,520 Speaker 5: much exactly the stock market knows and what it knows 243 00:12:46,559 --> 00:12:47,400 Speaker 5: about Tesla sales. 244 00:12:47,480 --> 00:12:49,959 Speaker 4: Yeah, this is nonsense, as Elon Musk knows because he 245 00:12:50,000 --> 00:12:52,720 Speaker 4: said it all the time, and Michelle Hussein brought this 246 00:12:52,800 --> 00:12:54,960 Speaker 4: up an interview for what it's worth. But like the 247 00:12:55,040 --> 00:12:59,040 Speaker 4: stock price does not mean that the market knows what 248 00:12:59,120 --> 00:13:02,560 Speaker 4: the sales are. The market is betting on Tesla's future, 249 00:13:02,600 --> 00:13:04,840 Speaker 4: as we've talked about many times. They're talking about optimists 250 00:13:04,840 --> 00:13:08,600 Speaker 4: and the driverless cars, and Elon Musk himself has said, 251 00:13:08,720 --> 00:13:12,000 Speaker 4: you know, don't don't pay attention to Tesla sales. Regular 252 00:13:12,040 --> 00:13:14,000 Speaker 4: cars are going away like not. You know, if you're 253 00:13:14,000 --> 00:13:17,480 Speaker 4: an investor, you're paying attention to these like monthly sales fluctuations, 254 00:13:17,520 --> 00:13:21,199 Speaker 4: You're you're missing the big picture, you know. I guess 255 00:13:21,240 --> 00:13:23,720 Speaker 4: we'll see. I mean, I think it's very easy for 256 00:13:23,800 --> 00:13:26,960 Speaker 4: him to say, like things are turned around starting right now. 257 00:13:27,320 --> 00:13:31,200 Speaker 4: I think there's like a cohort of investors who are 258 00:13:31,600 --> 00:13:34,520 Speaker 4: are going to buy that. But outside of Elon Musk 259 00:13:34,559 --> 00:13:38,640 Speaker 4: making these claims, there is nothing in data, publicly available data, 260 00:13:38,720 --> 00:13:42,400 Speaker 4: third party data, independent data that I have seen that 261 00:13:42,600 --> 00:13:43,200 Speaker 4: backs at up. 262 00:13:43,280 --> 00:13:45,960 Speaker 5: Well. Right, Well, maybe he's telling you Max that he 263 00:13:46,080 --> 00:13:48,040 Speaker 5: knows something pal that you don't know. 264 00:13:48,640 --> 00:13:50,240 Speaker 3: Maybe, yeah, that's what he does. 265 00:13:50,400 --> 00:13:53,640 Speaker 4: Right, He's he's got a secret plan to fix Tesla, 266 00:13:53,760 --> 00:13:55,520 Speaker 4: and it's and to grow it into a thirty trillion 267 00:13:55,559 --> 00:13:56,720 Speaker 4: dollar company or whatever. 268 00:13:57,000 --> 00:14:01,080 Speaker 3: And that's kind of been his pose for a huge 269 00:14:01,120 --> 00:14:01,400 Speaker 3: part of. 270 00:14:01,360 --> 00:14:04,720 Speaker 4: The company's history, and what has allowed him to sort 271 00:14:04,720 --> 00:14:06,480 Speaker 4: of make that work is that there are a lot 272 00:14:06,480 --> 00:14:07,640 Speaker 4: of investors who buy it. 273 00:14:07,640 --> 00:14:09,719 Speaker 5: It is true, though, I actually hadn't thought about this 274 00:14:09,800 --> 00:14:11,360 Speaker 5: is why we have you on the show. You're always 275 00:14:11,440 --> 00:14:14,080 Speaker 5: two three steps ahead. I hadn't thought about the irony 276 00:14:14,160 --> 00:14:18,000 Speaker 5: of he is always trying, indeed to tell people forget 277 00:14:18,040 --> 00:14:20,680 Speaker 5: about the cars and the car sales. We're about optimists, 278 00:14:20,680 --> 00:14:24,640 Speaker 5: we're about AI, we're about robotaxi, all these things, and 279 00:14:24,680 --> 00:14:27,320 Speaker 5: that's what the stock reflects. And now that the stock 280 00:14:27,400 --> 00:14:31,600 Speaker 5: is popping rebounding, And to be clear, much of the 281 00:14:31,640 --> 00:14:33,480 Speaker 5: Tesla stock rebound. 282 00:14:33,200 --> 00:14:34,960 Speaker 3: Is has to do with the trade war. 283 00:14:35,080 --> 00:14:39,000 Speaker 5: Yeah, the broader rebound in the stock market, but he says, ah, 284 00:14:39,320 --> 00:14:43,480 Speaker 5: the stock market rebound is a testament to just how 285 00:14:43,560 --> 00:14:45,560 Speaker 5: much our sales are coming back. Of course, the data 286 00:14:45,720 --> 00:14:48,320 Speaker 5: publicly available data for May will be out soon and 287 00:14:48,400 --> 00:14:50,440 Speaker 5: often we'll have a greater sense then. 288 00:14:55,160 --> 00:14:55,520 Speaker 3: Okay. 289 00:14:55,760 --> 00:14:57,720 Speaker 5: There was also a fair amount of back and forth 290 00:14:57,840 --> 00:15:01,560 Speaker 5: on the dose shavings produce so far. Michelle was pointing 291 00:15:01,560 --> 00:15:04,640 Speaker 5: out that so far doge As has come up with 292 00:15:04,680 --> 00:15:09,640 Speaker 5: what one hundred and seventy billion, give or take, which 293 00:15:09,680 --> 00:15:12,840 Speaker 5: is a fair amount less than the two trillion dollar 294 00:15:13,000 --> 00:15:16,720 Speaker 5: target must get set for Doge must set at one 295 00:15:16,800 --> 00:15:19,960 Speaker 5: point to her, and again he clearly got worked up 296 00:15:19,960 --> 00:15:22,520 Speaker 5: at several times in this interview. He said to her, 297 00:15:22,960 --> 00:15:27,040 Speaker 5: your question is absurd. Have we not made good progress? 298 00:15:27,560 --> 00:15:30,360 Speaker 6: We do not make the laws, nor do we control 299 00:15:30,720 --> 00:15:35,080 Speaker 6: the judiciary, nor do we control the executive branch. We 300 00:15:35,160 --> 00:15:39,239 Speaker 6: are simply advisors. In that context, we're doing very well. Nonetheless, 301 00:15:39,520 --> 00:15:44,280 Speaker 6: let's not criticize whether there's a four trillion and instead 302 00:15:44,600 --> 00:15:46,720 Speaker 6: look at the fact that that hundred and sixty billion 303 00:15:46,760 --> 00:15:48,520 Speaker 6: has been saved and more will we save two. 304 00:15:49,280 --> 00:15:52,520 Speaker 4: There's this weird dance right where anytime Elon Musk talks 305 00:15:52,560 --> 00:15:58,240 Speaker 4: about the Trump administration, where he wants to simultaneously give 306 00:15:58,320 --> 00:16:01,360 Speaker 4: himself credit, give himself as much agency as possible, because 307 00:16:01,360 --> 00:16:03,120 Speaker 4: that's kind of how he works, right. He likes to 308 00:16:03,120 --> 00:16:05,920 Speaker 4: be the decider. He wants to be the one in 309 00:16:05,960 --> 00:16:09,440 Speaker 4: the design studio making the calls. And at the same time, 310 00:16:10,160 --> 00:16:13,280 Speaker 4: legally politically, there are all sorts of reasons why that 311 00:16:13,440 --> 00:16:17,360 Speaker 4: is not advantageous. It's not advantageous to claim. And you 312 00:16:17,400 --> 00:16:21,520 Speaker 4: heard him say in this interview. Well, the problem is Congress. 313 00:16:21,560 --> 00:16:24,760 Speaker 4: Congress has to do this stuff, and I think we're serving. 314 00:16:24,480 --> 00:16:25,840 Speaker 5: Went on at the end of that to say and 315 00:16:25,960 --> 00:16:29,040 Speaker 5: the executive brand, Yeah yeah, which and this. 316 00:16:29,120 --> 00:16:32,200 Speaker 4: Is why, like I remember when the dose things started, 317 00:16:32,200 --> 00:16:33,200 Speaker 4: you were very high on it. 318 00:16:33,240 --> 00:16:35,240 Speaker 5: You were sort of saying, thought they were going to change. 319 00:16:36,360 --> 00:16:38,520 Speaker 4: Yeah you well not just that, but you thought, like 320 00:16:38,680 --> 00:16:40,280 Speaker 4: he's going to actually cut some costs. 321 00:16:40,320 --> 00:16:43,800 Speaker 3: We're in this moment for real austerity. 322 00:16:44,200 --> 00:16:47,000 Speaker 4: Like I just could feel all the bond traders behind 323 00:16:47,040 --> 00:16:48,320 Speaker 4: you celebrating. 324 00:16:49,000 --> 00:16:50,960 Speaker 5: Well, I think I can I read for my position. 325 00:16:51,040 --> 00:16:55,720 Speaker 5: My position was and remains whether Doge ultimately achieves a 326 00:16:55,800 --> 00:16:59,000 Speaker 5: whole heck of a lot or not, that you can 327 00:16:59,240 --> 00:17:04,119 Speaker 5: sell a mess like that right now is not a coincidence. Yeah, 328 00:17:04,200 --> 00:17:07,639 Speaker 5: that was my point. I actually, frankly, I mean, one 329 00:17:07,720 --> 00:17:09,960 Speaker 5: hundred and seventy billion, I don't know if we believe 330 00:17:10,600 --> 00:17:12,520 Speaker 5: one hundred and seventy billion that they say they've cut. 331 00:17:12,640 --> 00:17:16,480 Speaker 5: One hundred and seventy billion is simultaneously an enormous amount 332 00:17:16,520 --> 00:17:19,480 Speaker 5: of money and yet given the size of the deficits 333 00:17:19,480 --> 00:17:20,880 Speaker 5: in this country, very bad. 334 00:17:20,960 --> 00:17:21,920 Speaker 3: That's the whole problem. 335 00:17:22,040 --> 00:17:23,800 Speaker 4: This is why, like it's very hard to be a 336 00:17:23,840 --> 00:17:27,280 Speaker 4: deficit hawk politically, because you could cut a bunch of 337 00:17:27,280 --> 00:17:30,040 Speaker 4: stuff and get a lot of people mad at you, 338 00:17:30,200 --> 00:17:32,680 Speaker 4: and then ultimately not achieve very much and you're. 339 00:17:32,560 --> 00:17:34,240 Speaker 5: Still get downgraded by Moody. 340 00:17:34,400 --> 00:17:37,480 Speaker 4: Yeah, you're suddenly in this uncanny valley where Wall Street 341 00:17:37,520 --> 00:17:40,080 Speaker 4: hates you and the American public hates you. And that's 342 00:17:40,080 --> 00:17:43,600 Speaker 4: why it's so weird that Elon Musk picked this battle 343 00:17:43,760 --> 00:17:44,359 Speaker 4: like he did. 344 00:17:44,240 --> 00:17:45,040 Speaker 3: Not have to pick this. 345 00:17:45,440 --> 00:17:48,640 Speaker 4: He really believes so again, and I think obviously you're 346 00:17:48,640 --> 00:17:52,840 Speaker 4: seeing in this dance why, first of all, why these 347 00:17:52,840 --> 00:17:57,440 Speaker 4: doge cuts are not super popular, or at least doge 348 00:17:57,600 --> 00:18:01,200 Speaker 4: as kind of conceived of and marketed by Elon Musk 349 00:18:01,240 --> 00:18:03,440 Speaker 4: are not super popular. The idea of cutting deficit spending 350 00:18:03,440 --> 00:18:06,520 Speaker 4: in general is popular, and why Donald Trump is kind 351 00:18:06,560 --> 00:18:09,359 Speaker 4: of trying to edge away from this because it doesn't 352 00:18:09,359 --> 00:18:11,800 Speaker 4: seem like this is a winner with voters. I want 353 00:18:11,800 --> 00:18:15,200 Speaker 4: to say one hundred and seventy billion dollars, but three 354 00:18:15,320 --> 00:18:20,280 Speaker 4: hundred and thirty seven thousand, eight hundred words deleted according 355 00:18:20,320 --> 00:18:22,040 Speaker 4: to Yeah. 356 00:18:21,960 --> 00:18:23,840 Speaker 5: What does that mean? Words deleted? What were they? Where 357 00:18:23,840 --> 00:18:24,760 Speaker 5: were they deleted from? 358 00:18:25,080 --> 00:18:29,359 Speaker 4: I guess from federal regulations? And I just want to 359 00:18:29,400 --> 00:18:32,160 Speaker 4: say as a as someone who at times has been 360 00:18:32,200 --> 00:18:36,040 Speaker 4: a professional word deleter, as somebody who's entire job had 361 00:18:36,200 --> 00:18:39,920 Speaker 4: been Yeah, an editor. Three hundred and thirty seven thousand 362 00:18:40,119 --> 00:18:42,840 Speaker 4: words is not that many words like a good word 363 00:18:42,840 --> 00:18:44,320 Speaker 4: deleter probably does that. 364 00:18:44,560 --> 00:18:47,600 Speaker 3: You know in six months? Maybe you know so? So 365 00:18:47,680 --> 00:18:49,000 Speaker 3: I don't know. I feel like they could step up 366 00:18:49,040 --> 00:18:49,320 Speaker 3: their game. 367 00:18:49,400 --> 00:18:53,000 Speaker 5: Okay, so listen Max. There was also a back and 368 00:18:53,040 --> 00:18:59,520 Speaker 5: forth about Musk Starlink apparently breaking into South Africa and 369 00:18:59,560 --> 00:19:04,240 Speaker 5: signing there. That too got pretty sporty. Let's listen to that. 370 00:19:04,440 --> 00:19:06,399 Speaker 6: First of all, you should be questioning why is there 371 00:19:06,480 --> 00:19:08,600 Speaker 6: why that racist laws in South Africa. That's the first 372 00:19:08,600 --> 00:19:11,720 Speaker 6: pot problem. That's what you should be attacking. It's improper 373 00:19:11,800 --> 00:19:14,120 Speaker 6: for they be racist laws in South Africa. The whole 374 00:19:14,160 --> 00:19:17,200 Speaker 6: idea with what Nelson Madela, who is a great man, proposed, 375 00:19:17,240 --> 00:19:19,560 Speaker 6: was that all racist should be on an equal footing 376 00:19:19,560 --> 00:19:22,000 Speaker 6: in South Africa. That's the right thing to do, not 377 00:19:22,119 --> 00:19:24,240 Speaker 6: to replace one set of racist laws with another set 378 00:19:24,240 --> 00:19:26,960 Speaker 6: of racist laws, which is utterly wrong and improper. 379 00:19:27,400 --> 00:19:28,960 Speaker 2: There are now one hundred and forty laws in South 380 00:19:29,000 --> 00:19:34,879 Speaker 2: Africa that give a prep that basically give strong preference 381 00:19:35,160 --> 00:19:38,440 Speaker 2: to you if you're black South African and not otherwise. 382 00:19:38,560 --> 00:19:40,760 Speaker 6: And so now I'm in the subsurd situation where I 383 00:19:40,800 --> 00:19:42,720 Speaker 6: was born in South Africa but cannot get a license 384 00:19:42,800 --> 00:19:45,480 Speaker 6: to operate in Starlink because I'm not black. 385 00:19:45,560 --> 00:19:48,760 Speaker 1: Well, it looks like that's it looks looks like that right, 386 00:19:48,880 --> 00:19:50,760 Speaker 1: it looks like that's about to change. 387 00:19:51,520 --> 00:19:54,159 Speaker 2: I just asked you a question. Please answer. Does that 388 00:19:54,160 --> 00:19:54,879 Speaker 2: seem right to you? 389 00:19:55,359 --> 00:19:59,760 Speaker 1: Well, those rules were designed to bring those rules would 390 00:19:59,760 --> 00:20:02,959 Speaker 1: design to bring about an era of more economic equality 391 00:20:03,160 --> 00:20:06,199 Speaker 1: in South Africa, and it looks like the government has 392 00:20:06,240 --> 00:20:07,960 Speaker 1: found a way around those rules for you. 393 00:20:09,600 --> 00:20:10,320 Speaker 2: Ask your question? 394 00:20:11,920 --> 00:20:14,560 Speaker 1: Is this is your interview? Everyone wants to hear from you, 395 00:20:15,200 --> 00:20:18,840 Speaker 1: yes or no? Not for me to answer that. I 396 00:20:18,880 --> 00:20:21,919 Speaker 1: have got a question for you about about your government 397 00:20:22,000 --> 00:20:23,560 Speaker 1: works and the amount of savings. 398 00:20:24,119 --> 00:20:25,280 Speaker 2: Do you like raceless loves? 399 00:20:27,520 --> 00:20:29,360 Speaker 4: I don't know what to say that, honestly, I mean, 400 00:20:29,760 --> 00:20:34,680 Speaker 4: you know, obviously, these laws in South Africa exist as 401 00:20:34,720 --> 00:20:39,440 Speaker 4: an effort to undo a system in which white South 402 00:20:39,480 --> 00:20:42,960 Speaker 4: Africans own the vast majority of businesses and property. The 403 00:20:43,400 --> 00:20:48,800 Speaker 4: point here is that Starlink is getting preferential treatment from 404 00:20:48,880 --> 00:20:51,800 Speaker 4: all sorts of governments now Elama is going to argue, well, 405 00:20:51,800 --> 00:20:54,680 Speaker 4: it should have been receiving this treatment all along, and 406 00:20:54,840 --> 00:20:57,800 Speaker 4: you could probably see a couple of different reasons why 407 00:20:57,800 --> 00:21:00,560 Speaker 4: it would be getting that treatment. One is that Starlink 408 00:21:00,800 --> 00:21:04,040 Speaker 4: is effective. It's delivering on its promise of you know, 409 00:21:04,119 --> 00:21:06,720 Speaker 4: high speed internet, as as Elon Musk said during this interview, 410 00:21:06,920 --> 00:21:09,160 Speaker 4: the connection was so great because it was. 411 00:21:09,119 --> 00:21:10,600 Speaker 3: Over those Starlink satellites. 412 00:21:11,000 --> 00:21:13,520 Speaker 4: And of course the other reason is this is a 413 00:21:13,560 --> 00:21:17,119 Speaker 4: good way to if you're a policy maker in a 414 00:21:17,240 --> 00:21:19,480 Speaker 4: smaller country that is trying to get things from the 415 00:21:19,600 --> 00:21:22,280 Speaker 4: United States, you know, as one does. This is I 416 00:21:22,280 --> 00:21:23,880 Speaker 4: think a way to throw a bone to Donald Trump. 417 00:21:23,920 --> 00:21:28,199 Speaker 4: You're giving his his number one donor positive policy. You know, 418 00:21:28,240 --> 00:21:30,840 Speaker 4: you're giving them a concession, and like that's what Trump 419 00:21:30,920 --> 00:21:32,879 Speaker 4: is all about. And so it kind of makes sense 420 00:21:33,119 --> 00:21:35,560 Speaker 4: that governments, not just in South Africa but elsewhere in 421 00:21:35,600 --> 00:21:39,600 Speaker 4: the world are are suddenly essentially like throwing open the 422 00:21:39,960 --> 00:21:41,439 Speaker 4: you know, their doors. 423 00:21:41,480 --> 00:21:49,320 Speaker 5: To Elon Musk, Yeah, now, Max, this is a good 424 00:21:49,560 --> 00:21:52,200 Speaker 5: segue into the second part of our show here, which 425 00:21:52,240 --> 00:21:57,400 Speaker 5: is all about Grock's wild Ride, because Groc, the chatbot 426 00:21:57,520 --> 00:22:00,639 Speaker 5: for Musk's x Ai, is kind of been on a 427 00:22:00,640 --> 00:22:03,160 Speaker 5: bit of a rant the last week or so where 428 00:22:03,200 --> 00:22:06,720 Speaker 5: he keeps droning on and on and on about white 429 00:22:06,800 --> 00:22:10,360 Speaker 5: genocide in South Africa. So tell us all about it. 430 00:22:10,440 --> 00:22:14,520 Speaker 3: Yeah, there was like a day. It was just one day, 431 00:22:14,920 --> 00:22:17,040 Speaker 3: I think roughly a day. I don't know, maybe got 432 00:22:17,040 --> 00:22:17,639 Speaker 3: it all out of them. 433 00:22:17,840 --> 00:22:21,920 Speaker 4: Where basically any question you asked Roc, you ask him, Hey, 434 00:22:22,320 --> 00:22:25,400 Speaker 4: how much does the Max Sures or the Blue Jays? 435 00:22:25,400 --> 00:22:28,960 Speaker 4: Starting picture make Hey, what's happening with this cute little 436 00:22:28,960 --> 00:22:29,760 Speaker 4: doggie over here? 437 00:22:29,880 --> 00:22:31,000 Speaker 5: Who's gonna win the Belmont? 438 00:22:31,040 --> 00:22:32,840 Speaker 3: Snaw, He's gonna win the Belmont? Whatever it is. 439 00:22:32,960 --> 00:22:37,000 Speaker 4: Groc would start to answer and then sort of take 440 00:22:37,119 --> 00:22:42,920 Speaker 4: a hard, right, screeching turn to the question of white genocide. 441 00:22:43,080 --> 00:22:45,520 Speaker 4: So so like, let me just I should probably just 442 00:22:45,600 --> 00:22:48,679 Speaker 4: read on again some examples, just to give you a sense. 443 00:22:48,880 --> 00:22:53,280 Speaker 4: Sot me find a good one, the best one you can. 444 00:22:53,359 --> 00:22:55,680 Speaker 3: Okay, Okay, So I don't remember last week. 445 00:22:55,920 --> 00:22:59,800 Speaker 4: HBO Max, the service that has HBO on it, they 446 00:23:00,040 --> 00:23:02,359 Speaker 4: change their name back to HBO Max. Everyone was laughing 447 00:23:02,400 --> 00:23:05,520 Speaker 4: about it because it was called HBO Max several years ago. 448 00:23:06,000 --> 00:23:09,280 Speaker 4: Warner Brothers, in their infinite wisdom, changed it to Max. 449 00:23:09,320 --> 00:23:11,840 Speaker 4: Now they're going back to HBO Max. Anyway, someone asked 450 00:23:11,880 --> 00:23:14,800 Speaker 4: how many times has HBO changed their name to Brock 451 00:23:15,359 --> 00:23:18,960 Speaker 4: groc starts to answer, HBO's streaming service has changed names 452 00:23:18,960 --> 00:23:22,360 Speaker 4: twice since twenty twenty. Blah blah blah blah blah regarding 453 00:23:22,359 --> 00:23:30,280 Speaker 4: white genocide. So anyway, it's unclear what happened and the fact. 454 00:23:30,080 --> 00:23:32,359 Speaker 5: That somebody sabotage CROC. 455 00:23:33,680 --> 00:23:38,760 Speaker 4: So what x AI has said is that there was 456 00:23:38,800 --> 00:23:44,439 Speaker 4: an unauthorized changed to Grock's code that caused it to 457 00:23:45,080 --> 00:23:49,840 Speaker 4: do this. I think it's pretty It seems pretty likely 458 00:23:50,000 --> 00:23:55,240 Speaker 4: that before this happened, there were screenshots showing the bot 459 00:23:55,760 --> 00:23:58,720 Speaker 4: casting doubt on white genocide and Elon Musk kind of 460 00:23:58,760 --> 00:23:59,560 Speaker 4: quibbling with that. 461 00:24:00,080 --> 00:24:02,399 Speaker 3: It seems it seems very possible. 462 00:24:02,080 --> 00:24:05,600 Speaker 4: Maybe even likely, that either Elon Musk asks someone to 463 00:24:05,680 --> 00:24:08,159 Speaker 4: do this and they did a bad job of it 464 00:24:08,240 --> 00:24:11,600 Speaker 4: and the tweak went too far, or or like somebody 465 00:24:11,640 --> 00:24:15,359 Speaker 4: who works at xi AI saw something that Elon Musk 466 00:24:15,480 --> 00:24:20,240 Speaker 4: Musk said and was attempting, you know, proactively to improve 467 00:24:20,359 --> 00:24:24,080 Speaker 4: in quotes Rock by like creating an update. And I 468 00:24:24,119 --> 00:24:27,119 Speaker 4: think the issue is and again some of this is 469 00:24:27,119 --> 00:24:32,359 Speaker 4: speculation that they told it to answer with balance on 470 00:24:32,440 --> 00:24:35,200 Speaker 4: the question of white genocide in South Africa, which I 471 00:24:35,200 --> 00:24:39,040 Speaker 4: think most people regard as basically a made up thing, 472 00:24:39,680 --> 00:24:41,880 Speaker 4: a kind of a right wing meme. But to take 473 00:24:41,920 --> 00:24:46,120 Speaker 4: that meme seriously, and instead of writing in their prompt 474 00:24:46,600 --> 00:24:50,840 Speaker 4: that they should only do that for questions about white genocide, 475 00:24:51,160 --> 00:24:53,440 Speaker 4: they just said for all questions. 476 00:24:53,160 --> 00:24:55,239 Speaker 5: All questions now. But can I just ask you this, 477 00:24:55,280 --> 00:24:57,720 Speaker 5: if you were to ask ROC now about white genocide 478 00:24:57,760 --> 00:25:00,680 Speaker 5: in South Africa, what does it now tell you? 479 00:25:00,680 --> 00:25:01,440 Speaker 3: Should we find out? 480 00:25:01,480 --> 00:25:02,400 Speaker 5: I think we should find out. 481 00:25:03,400 --> 00:25:07,720 Speaker 4: So it's it's essentially saying, if you ask it now, 482 00:25:07,920 --> 00:25:09,680 Speaker 4: the idea of white genocide in South Africa is a 483 00:25:09,760 --> 00:25:13,399 Speaker 4: highly controversial claim, and then it gives the sort of 484 00:25:13,440 --> 00:25:16,000 Speaker 4: pros and cons although at the end it says the 485 00:25:16,040 --> 00:25:19,120 Speaker 4: idea the white genocide narrative appears to exaggerate and misframe 486 00:25:19,160 --> 00:25:20,760 Speaker 4: real issues. Anyway, I don't want to I don't want 487 00:25:20,760 --> 00:25:23,680 Speaker 4: to go on and on reading what GROC says, because 488 00:25:23,720 --> 00:25:27,440 Speaker 4: the point is that we don't actually know what happened here. 489 00:25:27,800 --> 00:25:31,320 Speaker 4: We don't know based on what Xai said. It could 490 00:25:31,359 --> 00:25:34,760 Speaker 4: be that someone made a direct change and like asked 491 00:25:34,800 --> 00:25:38,159 Speaker 4: GROC to do something. It could also be that someone 492 00:25:38,200 --> 00:25:40,600 Speaker 4: made some change having nothing to do with this, and 493 00:25:40,680 --> 00:25:44,240 Speaker 4: like it led to a chain reaction that that then 494 00:25:44,359 --> 00:25:47,119 Speaker 4: caused Groc to do something. The thing about these AI chatbots, 495 00:25:47,480 --> 00:25:50,800 Speaker 4: and this is why, like it is really crazy that 496 00:25:50,840 --> 00:25:53,639 Speaker 4: people are starting to that you would want to like 497 00:25:53,760 --> 00:25:57,440 Speaker 4: ask them anything. Factual is that we don't know how 498 00:25:57,480 --> 00:26:00,199 Speaker 4: they make their decisions. It is a black box. So 499 00:26:00,240 --> 00:26:04,320 Speaker 4: we don't actually know whether Elon Musk, you know, put 500 00:26:04,359 --> 00:26:08,600 Speaker 4: his thumb on the scale and turn this algorithm, which 501 00:26:08,720 --> 00:26:11,480 Speaker 4: which would have been giving a more reasonable answer into 502 00:26:11,520 --> 00:26:14,320 Speaker 4: an unreasonable answer, or if the algorithm just did this 503 00:26:14,400 --> 00:26:17,640 Speaker 4: on its own. And honestly, the second one is probably 504 00:26:17,680 --> 00:26:20,439 Speaker 4: worse than the first one if it's true, even though 505 00:26:20,840 --> 00:26:25,080 Speaker 4: like obviously it undermines Elon Musk's whole idea that he 506 00:26:25,280 --> 00:26:28,240 Speaker 4: was gonna he wanted to you know, create this to 507 00:26:28,240 --> 00:26:31,080 Speaker 4: have a maximally truth seeking algorithm or whatever. 508 00:26:31,600 --> 00:26:35,080 Speaker 3: Basically, these chatbots do weird. 509 00:26:34,840 --> 00:26:37,840 Speaker 4: Things, and they do unpredictable things, you know. Grock shortly 510 00:26:37,880 --> 00:26:42,720 Speaker 4: after this whole white genocide thing happened, it started saying 511 00:26:42,760 --> 00:26:46,520 Speaker 4: that the Holocaust was maybe thrown into a question again, 512 00:26:46,720 --> 00:26:48,720 Speaker 4: had to apologize, had to say that there was some 513 00:26:48,840 --> 00:26:53,520 Speaker 4: other unauthorized change so again it's just it's kind of 514 00:26:53,560 --> 00:26:55,960 Speaker 4: just a mess. And part of the reason it's a 515 00:26:56,000 --> 00:26:59,399 Speaker 4: mess is because, again you have a CEO with a 516 00:26:59,440 --> 00:27:02,200 Speaker 4: tendency to just try to do things kind of off 517 00:27:02,200 --> 00:27:05,639 Speaker 4: the cuff. You also have just lots of content, like 518 00:27:05,720 --> 00:27:08,960 Speaker 4: lots of racist content on x that is assumably being 519 00:27:09,080 --> 00:27:12,919 Speaker 4: used to train Rock. So it's possible that it's possible 520 00:27:12,960 --> 00:27:17,400 Speaker 4: Grock just like ingested a whole bunch of like weird racist, 521 00:27:17,760 --> 00:27:21,840 Speaker 4: you know, anti white genocide stuff about South Africa and 522 00:27:21,880 --> 00:27:24,320 Speaker 4: spit this out, or that Elon Musk did it, or 523 00:27:24,320 --> 00:27:26,360 Speaker 4: that it was some combination of both of those. 524 00:27:26,200 --> 00:27:28,800 Speaker 5: Things, okay, and other news. 525 00:27:29,160 --> 00:27:32,640 Speaker 4: Basically, what I'm saying is that if you had a company, 526 00:27:32,680 --> 00:27:36,120 Speaker 4: you definitely want to hire Rock to create content. 527 00:27:35,920 --> 00:27:39,960 Speaker 5: Right, which is exactly what the betting site Calshi just did. 528 00:27:40,400 --> 00:27:42,239 Speaker 5: But it's a story I believe that we hear at 529 00:27:42,240 --> 00:27:43,840 Speaker 5: Bloomberg Broke tell us about it. 530 00:27:44,200 --> 00:27:47,680 Speaker 4: Yeah, So Calshi is one of these prediction market websites. 531 00:27:47,680 --> 00:27:49,680 Speaker 4: This is like a new category. The other big one 532 00:27:49,720 --> 00:27:55,320 Speaker 4: is polymarket. Calshi is in a it's obviously a space 533 00:27:55,520 --> 00:27:58,840 Speaker 4: where regulation is a huge concern. It's also one in 534 00:27:58,880 --> 00:28:02,320 Speaker 4: which where there are lots of connections to the Trump administration. 535 00:28:02,359 --> 00:28:06,880 Speaker 4: I believe so Calci, like you know many companies, is 536 00:28:07,040 --> 00:28:11,159 Speaker 4: it seems, trying to create some additional content for their website. Obviously, 537 00:28:11,240 --> 00:28:15,200 Speaker 4: having a chatbot do it is cheaper than having human 538 00:28:15,240 --> 00:28:15,800 Speaker 4: beings do it. 539 00:28:15,880 --> 00:28:18,800 Speaker 5: So just as a gambler, if I can understand this here, 540 00:28:18,920 --> 00:28:22,280 Speaker 5: so the idea is GROC is going to spit out 541 00:28:22,320 --> 00:28:26,000 Speaker 5: this content that is going to help me the gambler, 542 00:28:26,960 --> 00:28:30,040 Speaker 5: make more informed bets. That's the idea, or is it 543 00:28:30,440 --> 00:28:34,280 Speaker 5: the stats entertaining me and just to go out wax 544 00:28:34,320 --> 00:28:36,160 Speaker 5: on and on about white genocide in South Auls. 545 00:28:36,280 --> 00:28:38,479 Speaker 4: Ostensibly it's going to help you make it for more 546 00:28:38,480 --> 00:28:41,160 Speaker 4: informed bets, although I do think there's a risk that 547 00:28:41,280 --> 00:28:43,560 Speaker 4: you might just get a little bit more info about 548 00:28:43,560 --> 00:28:49,080 Speaker 4: white genis, which hey, if I were running a prediction 549 00:28:49,160 --> 00:28:51,920 Speaker 4: market company, I might be worried about. But on the 550 00:28:51,920 --> 00:28:55,440 Speaker 4: other hand, I think there are reasons, Like I mentioned 551 00:28:55,480 --> 00:28:57,680 Speaker 4: one that was economic, but the other reason, of course 552 00:28:57,760 --> 00:29:01,160 Speaker 4: is political. I don't think this this del that Calshi 553 00:29:01,320 --> 00:29:05,000 Speaker 4: has announced with GROC, which I assume involves Calshi giving 554 00:29:05,680 --> 00:29:07,520 Speaker 4: Ai Xai money. 555 00:29:07,320 --> 00:29:10,080 Speaker 5: Presumably yeah, which would be good, or they gonna give 556 00:29:10,120 --> 00:29:11,840 Speaker 5: a bunch of free bets, which would be good. Make 557 00:29:11,880 --> 00:29:13,440 Speaker 5: two free bets a month. 558 00:29:13,520 --> 00:29:15,960 Speaker 4: Which would be good for Xai because Xai could really 559 00:29:16,040 --> 00:29:19,040 Speaker 4: use some revenue. I think this is like not that 560 00:29:19,200 --> 00:29:22,680 Speaker 4: different from when a company that is in a regulated 561 00:29:22,720 --> 00:29:25,920 Speaker 4: space maybe blocks books a big block of rooms in 562 00:29:26,040 --> 00:29:29,200 Speaker 4: the Trump Hotel in Washington, DC, right like it is 563 00:29:29,240 --> 00:29:32,080 Speaker 4: getting those rooms, it needs to stay somewhere. On the 564 00:29:32,080 --> 00:29:34,720 Speaker 4: other hand, like if you want to signal, perhaps to 565 00:29:34,840 --> 00:29:38,000 Speaker 4: regulators that you're on the side politically that is in 566 00:29:38,080 --> 00:29:40,640 Speaker 4: power deal with musks, why not do this. I'm just 567 00:29:40,640 --> 00:29:44,400 Speaker 4: suggesting that I'm not sure that the the sort of 568 00:29:44,480 --> 00:29:48,640 Speaker 4: capabilities of Xai was the only thing that was looked 569 00:29:48,680 --> 00:29:49,000 Speaker 4: at here. 570 00:29:49,760 --> 00:29:54,560 Speaker 5: Fair last thing in Groc's Whirlwind week is something about 571 00:29:55,120 --> 00:29:58,480 Speaker 5: now this I understand gambling, so I understood the Calshi thing, 572 00:29:58,720 --> 00:30:02,400 Speaker 5: but something about my Microsoft and the cloud and Xai 573 00:30:02,760 --> 00:30:03,960 Speaker 5: and I don't know Mac. 574 00:30:04,080 --> 00:30:06,760 Speaker 3: Yeah. So Microsoft had a big developer event. 575 00:30:07,040 --> 00:30:11,680 Speaker 4: This is like for people who use Azure, which it's 576 00:30:11,720 --> 00:30:12,280 Speaker 4: it's it's. 577 00:30:12,080 --> 00:30:13,280 Speaker 3: Cloud computing service. 578 00:30:13,600 --> 00:30:18,800 Speaker 4: It announced that it is going to support grock in Azure. 579 00:30:19,000 --> 00:30:21,480 Speaker 4: So if you are a software developer, you will be 580 00:30:21,520 --> 00:30:25,120 Speaker 4: able to sort of buy Grock through Microsoft. Now this 581 00:30:25,240 --> 00:30:30,360 Speaker 4: is it's confusing and complicated. Yes, I think the sort 582 00:30:30,400 --> 00:30:33,840 Speaker 4: of the the most interesting thing here is Elon Musk 583 00:30:33,960 --> 00:30:37,960 Speaker 4: is feuding right now with both Bill Gates, who he 584 00:30:38,280 --> 00:30:39,160 Speaker 4: said some very. 585 00:30:39,240 --> 00:30:43,480 Speaker 5: You know in the Cutar Economic Form interview. Yes he did. 586 00:30:43,520 --> 00:30:45,160 Speaker 5: He had some very salty things. 587 00:30:45,200 --> 00:30:46,480 Speaker 3: Very unhappy with Bill Gates. 588 00:30:46,480 --> 00:30:48,720 Speaker 4: We discussed last week all the things that Bill Gates 589 00:30:48,760 --> 00:30:51,960 Speaker 4: has said about Elon Musk. Also, there is a lawsuit 590 00:30:52,000 --> 00:30:55,520 Speaker 4: going on in which Elon Musk essentially accuses open Ai 591 00:30:55,760 --> 00:30:58,960 Speaker 4: of having been taken over by Microsoft and in a 592 00:30:59,000 --> 00:31:01,760 Speaker 4: bad way. And now we have Elon Musk actually appearing 593 00:31:01,880 --> 00:31:05,760 Speaker 4: via video chat at this event, you know, making nice 594 00:31:05,760 --> 00:31:07,880 Speaker 4: with the CEO of Microsoft, Satya Nadella. 595 00:31:08,200 --> 00:31:08,840 Speaker 3: I mean, part of. 596 00:31:08,840 --> 00:31:11,800 Speaker 4: This is just that, like as I said earlier, XAI 597 00:31:12,040 --> 00:31:14,200 Speaker 4: needs to get some revenue. 598 00:31:14,560 --> 00:31:14,760 Speaker 3: You know. 599 00:31:14,840 --> 00:31:18,040 Speaker 5: Max actually, on the topic of Microsoft and open Ai, 600 00:31:18,520 --> 00:31:22,040 Speaker 5: must took a pretty big swing at Altman Sam Altman, 601 00:31:22,120 --> 00:31:24,800 Speaker 5: co founder of open Ai, during that interview over there 602 00:31:24,800 --> 00:31:26,040 Speaker 5: and Cutter with Michall. 603 00:31:26,280 --> 00:31:28,320 Speaker 3: Yeah, this was a burn, I'd say. 604 00:31:28,520 --> 00:31:31,080 Speaker 4: She pointed out that even though they're fighting, they were 605 00:31:31,120 --> 00:31:35,440 Speaker 4: both with the president in Saudi Arabia and Musk said, 606 00:31:36,120 --> 00:31:37,080 Speaker 4: I was with the president. 607 00:31:37,120 --> 00:31:41,360 Speaker 3: Sam Altman was in the neighborhood, which you know that's 608 00:31:41,160 --> 00:31:42,000 Speaker 3: that's a singer. 609 00:31:42,040 --> 00:31:44,720 Speaker 5: I'd say, you know, well, I suppose when you donated 610 00:31:44,760 --> 00:31:47,400 Speaker 5: what you donated to mister Trump, you get that kind 611 00:31:47,440 --> 00:31:57,600 Speaker 5: of access. Max. Thank you as always, Thanks David. This 612 00:31:57,680 --> 00:32:01,360 Speaker 5: episode was produced by Stacy Wong Late Maple's Handles Engineering 613 00:32:01,360 --> 00:32:04,600 Speaker 5: and Dave Purcell fact checks. Anna Maserracus is our editor 614 00:32:04,600 --> 00:32:08,280 Speaker 5: and Magnus Henrikson is our supervising producer. The elan In 615 00:32:08,520 --> 00:32:12,160 Speaker 5: theme is written and performed by Takea Yasuzawa and Alex Suviira. 616 00:32:12,480 --> 00:32:15,520 Speaker 5: Brendan Francis Newnham is our executive producer, and Sage Bauman 617 00:32:15,640 --> 00:32:18,520 Speaker 5: is the head of Bloomberg Podcasts. A big thanks to 618 00:32:18,560 --> 00:32:22,880 Speaker 5: our supporters Joel Webber and Brad Stone. I'm David Papadoppolos. 619 00:32:23,120 --> 00:32:25,360 Speaker 5: If you have a minute, rate and review our show, 620 00:32:25,560 --> 00:32:34,520 Speaker 5: it'll help other listeners find us. See you next week.