WEBVTT - Figma CEO Dylan Field on Strong Earnings 0:00:02.520 --> 0:00:13.520 Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news. Bloomberg Tech is alive 0:00:13.560 --> 0:00:17.360 from coast to coast with Caroline Hyde in New York 0:00:17.680 --> 0:00:19.639 and Ed Lovelow in sentences, go. 0:00:22.760 --> 0:00:24.640 This is Bloomberg Tech coming up. 0:00:24.680 --> 0:00:27.520 President Trump says he discussed in video's eighty two hundred 0:00:27.600 --> 0:00:28.840 chips with Jijingping. 0:00:29.240 --> 0:00:30.360 Will break down the latest. 0:00:31.240 --> 0:00:33.440 Plus we speak with the CEO of Figma after its 0:00:33.479 --> 0:00:37.599 earnings results, the five fears that AI would disrupt the design. 0:00:37.240 --> 0:00:41.840 Stack, and our conversation with open Ai CFO Sarah Fryer, 0:00:41.880 --> 0:00:45.239 who says the startup may raise more capital after completing 0:00:45.320 --> 0:00:46.760 its recent fundraising round. 0:00:47.280 --> 0:00:48.600 Carry has got the markets. 0:00:48.680 --> 0:00:49.640 I have, let's check in on them. 0:00:49.680 --> 0:00:51.440 We're currently seeing the n AS that one hundred actually 0:00:51.440 --> 0:00:53.360 having its worst day since March the twenty seventh. At 0:00:53.360 --> 0:00:56.279 the moment, edre by one point three percent. Look over 0:00:56.320 --> 0:00:58.400 the course of the week, it's not nearly so ugly. 0:00:58.480 --> 0:01:00.400 We're actually inning down about a tenth percent. 0:01:00.440 --> 0:01:02.920 But on this day it is the chip stocks in particular, 0:01:02.960 --> 0:01:04.560 and I'm looking at Micron on the downside. 0:01:04.600 --> 0:01:07.120 That's a key point drag. You're looking at Invidia as well. 0:01:07.160 --> 0:01:09.040 Look, this is the day in which we digest what 0:01:09.080 --> 0:01:10.080 happened over in Beijing. 0:01:10.480 --> 0:01:14.080 Yes, and that is reflected in semiconductors in part. So 0:01:14.120 --> 0:01:17.440 the Philadelphia Semiconductor Index or SOCKS is the main gauge 0:01:17.440 --> 0:01:21.040 of chip makers, chip equipment makers. It's down almost four percent. 0:01:21.440 --> 0:01:25.039 You have to take into account the astonishing rally in 0:01:25.120 --> 0:01:28.720 chip stocks year to date seventy percent or something prior 0:01:28.760 --> 0:01:30.800 to yesterday's close. 0:01:31.080 --> 0:01:32.720 In video at one point in the session, it's off. 0:01:32.760 --> 0:01:36.840 Session lows was down on track for its biggest decline 0:01:36.880 --> 0:01:41.360 since February. In part, as I say, because the market's digesting, 0:01:41.760 --> 0:01:44.639 what was the net outcome of the meeting between President 0:01:44.680 --> 0:01:48.080 Trump and President G four Invidia And for chips, his 0:01:48.200 --> 0:01:50.800 President Trump talking about in video's eight two hundred chips 0:01:50.840 --> 0:01:52.559 on Air Force one earlier today. 0:01:53.360 --> 0:01:57.559 As you know, Jensen was, there's amazing and the video and. 0:01:59.080 --> 0:01:59.800 He would be a fla. 0:02:00.200 --> 0:02:03.240 You know, they have much higher level than the HQO hundred, 0:02:03.720 --> 0:02:13.200 but the H two hundred is good Chinadja And so yeah. 0:02:11.520 --> 0:02:13.880 President Trump there on Air Force one. Let's get the 0:02:13.960 --> 0:02:17.080 latest with Bloomberg's Tyler Kendall, who joins us once again 0:02:17.480 --> 0:02:18.200 from Beijing. 0:02:18.919 --> 0:02:20.320 Chips in focus for US. 0:02:20.160 --> 0:02:24.640 On Bloomberg Tech Taiwan in focus between the President and 0:02:24.720 --> 0:02:27.200 President g What else do we need to take away 0:02:27.480 --> 0:02:28.639 from this historic meeting? 0:02:31.600 --> 0:02:34.000 Well ed? At this point, we're actually getting some breaking 0:02:34.080 --> 0:02:37.160 news on how China views how this visit went between 0:02:37.240 --> 0:02:41.000 President Trump and Chinese President Jijingping. Chinese state media reporting 0:02:41.360 --> 0:02:45.240 moments ago that China feels that Taiwan is that number 0:02:45.320 --> 0:02:49.200 one issue for US China relations now. President Trump and 0:02:49.320 --> 0:02:52.160 US officials here on the ground maintained that the US 0:02:52.280 --> 0:02:57.080 policy regarding Taiwan has not changed, though the President Trump 0:02:57.200 --> 0:03:00.360 told Fox News earlier today that he would like to 0:03:00.400 --> 0:03:04.679 see tensions cooled down, in his words, between China and Taiwan. 0:03:04.760 --> 0:03:07.320 When pressed about future US weapons sales, the President was 0:03:07.360 --> 0:03:10.320 also noncommittal as Congress waits for him to prove a 0:03:10.400 --> 0:03:14.480 fourteen billion dollar package that's been queued up. That was 0:03:14.520 --> 0:03:17.640 clearly the biggest point of contention amid a summit that 0:03:17.760 --> 0:03:20.680 was rather cordial, and both sides said that they were 0:03:20.720 --> 0:03:23.920 prioritizing stability. But we didn't really get a lot of 0:03:23.960 --> 0:03:27.239 tangibles and deliverables in terms of progress. Right We're still 0:03:27.240 --> 0:03:31.120 waiting on some key details regarding planned commitments. When it 0:03:31.160 --> 0:03:34.040 comes to purchase agreements or new investment deals. Though we 0:03:34.080 --> 0:03:36.800 can confirm that Boeing officials were still here on the 0:03:36.800 --> 0:03:39.720 ground in Beijing over the last few hours meeting with 0:03:39.840 --> 0:03:43.080 Chinese officials and what was considered a positive sign for 0:03:43.200 --> 0:03:43.760 that deal. 0:03:43.840 --> 0:03:44.520 But as you. 0:03:44.480 --> 0:03:47.920 Mentioned, there there was a big expectation that perhaps there 0:03:47.920 --> 0:03:49.880 could be a deal when it came to in Vidia's 0:03:50.000 --> 0:03:52.839 H two hundred chips, as the Nvidia CEO Dnsen Wong 0:03:52.960 --> 0:03:56.400 was a last minute addition to the travel here to Beijing. 0:03:56.640 --> 0:03:59.680 President Trump did confirm that they spoke about the chips, 0:03:59.680 --> 0:04:02.360 but a timately said that China wants to develop their 0:04:02.400 --> 0:04:05.080 own and that's why we hadn't seen any purchases go 0:04:05.240 --> 0:04:08.280 through Ed and Caroline. The President also mentioned that the 0:04:08.280 --> 0:04:11.640 two sides did discuss the future of artificial intelligence and 0:04:11.680 --> 0:04:15.480 where we could see some collaboration in terms of guardrails 0:04:15.520 --> 0:04:16.839 related to the technology. 0:04:18.040 --> 0:04:21.039 For the most Tyler Kendall extraordinary work throughout the past 0:04:21.080 --> 0:04:24.080 few days over in Beijing. We so appreciated. Look, we've 0:04:24.080 --> 0:04:27.000 got to get there. For the broader chip industry perspective, 0:04:27.240 --> 0:04:29.320 what does all of this mean in terms of the 0:04:29.400 --> 0:04:33.760 United States and its ability to drive up manufacturing capacity 0:04:34.040 --> 0:04:35.360 and its workforce right here. 0:04:35.400 --> 0:04:36.400 Sharry List is with us. 0:04:36.400 --> 0:04:39.599 It's a vice president of Global Workforce Development Initiatives at SEMI. 0:04:39.640 --> 0:04:43.480 It's a global industry association connection professionals worldwide across the 0:04:43.560 --> 0:04:46.720 chip and electronics design and manufacturing supply chain. 0:04:46.760 --> 0:04:48.480 It is wonderful, Chary, to have you here with us. 0:04:48.600 --> 0:04:49.920 Thank you so much for having so. 0:04:50.640 --> 0:04:53.919 If we do see tensions rise, and if we do 0:04:54.040 --> 0:04:57.440 focus therefore even more on a manufacturing footprint brought back 0:04:57.480 --> 0:05:01.120 to America where Chips have manufactured their design rather than 0:05:01.120 --> 0:05:03.960 make so reliant on Taiwan, are we able to do it? 0:05:04.800 --> 0:05:05.159 We are? 0:05:05.320 --> 0:05:07.599 I mean, I think I speak on behalf of the 0:05:07.640 --> 0:05:10.599 workforce component involved this. It is one of the bottlenecks 0:05:10.600 --> 0:05:13.360 for this industry in the US, for sure, but there 0:05:13.400 --> 0:05:15.839 are a remarkable set of programs that are being built 0:05:15.839 --> 0:05:18.680 all around the country to meet that need. The Chips 0:05:18.720 --> 0:05:22.480 investments here in the US are launching an incredible growth 0:05:22.480 --> 0:05:25.120 here for us on our soil here in this country, 0:05:25.440 --> 0:05:27.800 and we're going to need another one hundred and fifty 0:05:27.839 --> 0:05:31.160 years one thousand or so people in this work environment. 0:05:31.279 --> 0:05:32.839 So we're building programs all over the. 0:05:32.839 --> 0:05:35.800 Country away from the geopolitics. You know, the news of 0:05:35.839 --> 0:05:39.240 the week highlights just capacity reliance. Right, So the one 0:05:39.240 --> 0:05:42.560 thing that Taiwan's really good at is the brutal economics 0:05:42.560 --> 0:05:46.120 of semiconductor manufacturing, and talent's a key component of that. 0:05:46.360 --> 0:05:50.240 Of course, there's all this plan on paper to build 0:05:50.240 --> 0:05:53.240 more fabs, have more foundry capacity in the United States, 0:05:53.880 --> 0:05:57.600 Do we have the people with the skills to make 0:05:57.640 --> 0:05:59.560 them run and not just make them run, make them 0:05:59.640 --> 0:06:02.440 hum right, brutal economics. 0:06:02.040 --> 0:06:03.719 Yes, I mean I think that's what we're all trying 0:06:03.720 --> 0:06:07.240 to work towards. Absolutely, had we didn't have as many 0:06:07.320 --> 0:06:10.599 programs established in the US anymore because we weren't manufacturing here. 0:06:10.960 --> 0:06:13.320 With the investments that are happening here, programs are launching 0:06:13.320 --> 0:06:16.159 all over the country. In fact, under the Chips investment, 0:06:16.160 --> 0:06:18.840 there's a two hundred million dollar workforce This. 0:06:18.839 --> 0:06:21.680 Is the Chips Act. A result of the Ships actually, sorry. 0:06:21.760 --> 0:06:23.480 As a result of the Chips Act, there is a 0:06:23.480 --> 0:06:26.280 two hundred million dollar investment in workforce through the National 0:06:26.360 --> 0:06:30.120 Science Foundation in concert with the Department of Commerce, to 0:06:30.240 --> 0:06:33.800 invest in building a national infrastructure around workforce development so 0:06:33.839 --> 0:06:37.000 that we can fund regional nodes around the country to 0:06:37.080 --> 0:06:40.039 build what's needed regionally in workforce and how to feed 0:06:40.080 --> 0:06:42.320 that into a national infrastructure. 0:06:41.880 --> 0:06:42.680 Not just jump in ofs. 0:06:42.760 --> 0:06:45.520 I mean Tim Cook very famously said, didn't he that 0:06:45.640 --> 0:06:49.080 China could fill a sports stadium with tooling engineers and 0:06:49.120 --> 0:06:51.880 that type of talent in America would struggle to fill 0:06:51.920 --> 0:06:54.880 a meeting room. What kind of roles are we talking 0:06:54.920 --> 0:06:58.120 about here? Show that you're trying to skill up. 0:06:57.960 --> 0:07:00.480 This nation on Yeah, I mean, I think we need 0:07:00.920 --> 0:07:03.839 everything across the industry, from technicians and operators to fill 0:07:03.880 --> 0:07:06.280 the fabs, to be on the fab floors, to all 0:07:06.320 --> 0:07:10.120 sorts of engineers across electrical engineering, mechanical engineering, chemical engineering, 0:07:10.400 --> 0:07:13.920 to our researchers, our PhDs. We need everybody. We need 0:07:13.960 --> 0:07:16.960 marketing talent, we need finance talent. So I think the 0:07:17.080 --> 0:07:21.200 challenge right now in the US is actually the image 0:07:21.240 --> 0:07:23.640 and awareness of our industry with students. So we do 0:07:23.680 --> 0:07:26.200 a lot of work in the space of getting students 0:07:26.240 --> 0:07:28.920 excited or passionate about this industry or. 0:07:28.920 --> 0:07:29.640 Even to know it. 0:07:29.920 --> 0:07:33.440 Because kids walk around all day every day with their phones, 0:07:33.560 --> 0:07:37.280 the phones, their iPads, their computers were in cars that 0:07:37.360 --> 0:07:41.560 are driven through chips. We are using appliances, everything we 0:07:41.680 --> 0:07:43.600 use all day long, and most people don't know that, 0:07:43.680 --> 0:07:45.440 parents don't all know you know, So it's it's an 0:07:45.560 --> 0:07:46.840 educating of the country. Really. 0:07:46.840 --> 0:07:49.240 Well, it's been so interesting is the method by which 0:07:49.280 --> 0:07:52.040 we start to up our fabrication footprint. Now, in some 0:07:52.080 --> 0:07:55.920 ways it's about leaning into intel, into local plays, but 0:07:55.960 --> 0:07:58.560 a lot of it's been about how drawing TSMC and 0:07:58.600 --> 0:08:01.720 saying please build here in Arizona. How much in the 0:08:01.800 --> 0:08:06.679 past have we relied on sort of TSMC talent coming here. 0:08:07.080 --> 0:08:09.080 Is that a way that's been reskilled and we've learned 0:08:09.080 --> 0:08:11.240 from others, or is it really about teaching them in 0:08:11.280 --> 0:08:11.720 our own. 0:08:11.680 --> 0:08:15.120 Education system, seeing others being brought up through the STEM 0:08:15.200 --> 0:08:18.000 education perspective, rather than learning from talent abroad. 0:08:18.320 --> 0:08:20.800 There's certainly been a mix of both. I think we have, 0:08:20.960 --> 0:08:23.760 of course, relied on talent abroad. As an industry. This 0:08:23.840 --> 0:08:27.480 is a global industry. This is a really intense, intricate, 0:08:27.760 --> 0:08:30.640 complicated industry, and we need talent from everywhere, right, that's clear. 0:08:31.000 --> 0:08:32.680 What we're trying to do now is make sure that 0:08:32.679 --> 0:08:35.200 we can build the workforce in the US with US 0:08:35.240 --> 0:08:38.480 citizens to get US jobs and to fill all of 0:08:38.520 --> 0:08:40.800 these roles. So we are still learning of course, we're 0:08:40.800 --> 0:08:43.360 all learning from each other. We all have different strengths 0:08:43.360 --> 0:08:46.199 across the world, so you know, hopefully we'll be able 0:08:46.280 --> 0:08:48.160 to meet those needs here in the US with all 0:08:48.160 --> 0:08:49.640 the programs that are being established. 0:08:49.840 --> 0:08:50.560 We're out of time. 0:08:50.600 --> 0:08:52.439 But actually Caroen I didn't even think about that, right. 0:08:52.520 --> 0:08:54.920 What did not come out of the meeting again between 0:08:54.960 --> 0:08:57.400 the two presidents probably the issue of visas right and 0:08:57.520 --> 0:09:00.600 talent here in Silicon Valley, San Francisco. How long has 0:09:00.600 --> 0:09:03.199 that been a story, you know, talent from China coming 0:09:03.520 --> 0:09:06.480 to universities, particularly in the world of AI, particularly in 0:09:06.520 --> 0:09:09.040 the world of AI. Shery list is Semi. It's great 0:09:09.040 --> 0:09:12.520 to have you on Bloomberg Tech. Thank you very much. Listen, guys, 0:09:12.559 --> 0:09:15.920 tune in Monday for an exclusive interview with the CEOs 0:09:16.280 --> 0:09:20.120 of Dell and Nvidia. From the sidelines of Dell Technology's world. 0:09:20.120 --> 0:09:22.600 Will be jennying over to Las Vegas for what is 0:09:22.720 --> 0:09:26.839 could not be a more timely conversation. Coming up, Cerebras 0:09:26.880 --> 0:09:30.360 surges in its trading debut, turning summer Silicon Valley's earliest 0:09:30.360 --> 0:09:33.600 backers into billion dollar winners. 0:09:33.679 --> 0:09:33.800 US. 0:09:33.880 --> 0:09:35.880 Next, this is Bloomberg Tech. 0:09:47.080 --> 0:09:48.680 We have got to check in on Cerebras. 0:09:48.760 --> 0:09:53.320 What a debut yesterday extraordinary sixty eight percent higher close 0:09:53.360 --> 0:09:56.559 at one point eighty nine percent. Unsurprisingly, there's been a 0:09:56.559 --> 0:10:00.200 profit taking company today more by some four point eight percent, 0:10:00.280 --> 0:10:02.160 let's call it on the day as we see the 0:10:02.160 --> 0:10:05.560 rest of the industry being under some pressure across the 0:10:05.600 --> 0:10:08.800 AI in chip spectrum because of concerns about really where 0:10:08.800 --> 0:10:11.080 the US China relationship goes. But three of the chip 0:10:11.080 --> 0:10:14.840 makers earliest venture capital backers al cerebra said Benchmark, Eclipse 0:10:14.840 --> 0:10:18.000 Foundation Capital, they're poised to make billions from their bets 0:10:18.040 --> 0:10:20.360 following Cerebras's IPO here for more has been a bouth 0:10:20.400 --> 0:10:24.280 VC and startups reporter Rebecca Times, So how early do 0:10:24.400 --> 0:10:27.720 they back this company and what sort of rewards are 0:10:27.720 --> 0:10:29.000 they going to be able to give LPs? 0:10:29.640 --> 0:10:32.360 Yeah, so two of the are sorry, three of the 0:10:32.400 --> 0:10:36.360 four biggest backers in Cerebras of their biggest outside backers 0:10:36.679 --> 0:10:39.480 came in a decade ago. In twenty sixteen, they invested 0:10:40.160 --> 0:10:43.679 in Cerebras's earliest round on the order of twenty five 0:10:43.720 --> 0:10:46.880 million dollars, and they now stand to make billions of 0:10:46.960 --> 0:10:50.600 dollars each at the IPO. Benchmark is among them inter 0:10:50.720 --> 0:10:54.800 firms with the biggest steak now around eight percent, and 0:10:55.160 --> 0:10:57.160 this would have you know, this was its first hardware 0:10:57.240 --> 0:11:01.360 investment in over a decade at the time, and that 0:11:01.480 --> 0:11:04.800 big swing has really paid off for them in spades. Obviously, 0:11:04.880 --> 0:11:07.599 the stock trading up massively from its IPO price of 0:11:07.600 --> 0:11:10.560 one hundred and eighty five dollars per share rebackgau. 0:11:10.559 --> 0:11:13.520 I don't know if you noticed yesterday, but when Andrew Feldman, 0:11:13.640 --> 0:11:17.080 the Cerebris CEO, was on the show, le Or Susan, 0:11:17.320 --> 0:11:20.320 the CEO of venture firm Eclipse, was hanging over his 0:11:20.400 --> 0:11:23.640 right shoulder every couple of seconds gave a little cheeky 0:11:23.679 --> 0:11:27.200 glance down into the camera lens. Eclipse another firm you know, 0:11:27.280 --> 0:11:30.560 regulars on this show that made a lot of money. 0:11:30.559 --> 0:11:30.839 Here. 0:11:30.920 --> 0:11:32.640 It's really fun reporting on this with you. It's like, 0:11:32.760 --> 0:11:35.040 you know, it's a really important IPO day. Look what 0:11:35.120 --> 0:11:36.720 else do we need to know? And just reflect what 0:11:36.760 --> 0:11:39.400 your week was like covering this blockbuster listing. 0:11:40.040 --> 0:11:40.720 Absolutely so. 0:11:40.880 --> 0:11:42.960 We also learned in the days leading up to the 0:11:43.040 --> 0:11:47.880 IPO that Semikin Doctor Company Arm and its majority backer SoftBank, 0:11:48.480 --> 0:11:52.480 had made an attempt to acquire Cereubris in the weeks 0:11:52.480 --> 0:11:56.600 before it's listing. Those offers were ultimately rebuffed, but there's 0:11:56.720 --> 0:11:59.560 huge competition in this market. There's obviously tons of interest 0:12:00.080 --> 0:12:02.240 in the private markets and now the public markets as well. 0:12:03.240 --> 0:12:08.400 In aichip companies an Area Infrastructure, Eclipse and Foundation Capital, 0:12:08.440 --> 0:12:11.839 one of the other largest free risk backers. This sort 0:12:11.880 --> 0:12:15.200 of hardware, this infrastructure is very much their bread and butter, 0:12:16.240 --> 0:12:18.360 and so they've got, you know, some of the things 0:12:18.360 --> 0:12:21.240 in the pipeline sort of that follow this general theme. 0:12:22.000 --> 0:12:24.920 And certainly there are more investments being made all across 0:12:24.960 --> 0:12:27.440 stages in the private markets, very much in line with 0:12:27.480 --> 0:12:29.800 this theme. So expecting to see much more activity here. 0:12:30.760 --> 0:12:33.800 Invoted for Rebecca Torrance, big week, thank you very much. 0:12:34.120 --> 0:12:37.560 From the excitement around Srebris's debut to the massive AI 0:12:37.640 --> 0:12:41.839 spending that's still ongoing at the hyperscale, is investors increasingly 0:12:41.880 --> 0:12:46.079 focused on whether companies like Alphabet, Meta and Amazon can 0:12:46.320 --> 0:12:50.160 justify the soaring capex with sustained revenue growth. On the 0:12:50.160 --> 0:12:52.400 other side, let's get more on that with Eric Sherid 0:12:52.440 --> 0:12:55.360 and Goldman sax Co Business Unit, leader of the Technology, 0:12:55.400 --> 0:13:00.960 Media and Telecommunications Group in Global Investment Research. Some weeker, 0:13:01.400 --> 0:13:05.319 I mean that's the formula. You look at the hyperscalers, 0:13:05.320 --> 0:13:07.720 you get the capital expenditures number. We get to the 0:13:07.840 --> 0:13:12.000 end of earning season and video reports next Wednesday. Probably 0:13:12.000 --> 0:13:14.719 the largest beneficiary of that capital expendit show. If we're 0:13:14.760 --> 0:13:17.320 being honest, you sit here on a Friday morning, Eric, 0:13:17.400 --> 0:13:19.719 what's your conclusion of the week's news flow and how 0:13:19.720 --> 0:13:22.880 it impacts those bigger names that you cover well. 0:13:22.920 --> 0:13:25.240 I think the main takeaways for us is that we 0:13:25.320 --> 0:13:29.960 remain in an infrastructure led cycle, so CAPEX continues to 0:13:30.000 --> 0:13:34.240 have an upward bias, albeit the bias to the upside 0:13:34.440 --> 0:13:37.160 was more muted this quarter than it was last quarter, 0:13:37.840 --> 0:13:42.040 which we think investors generally received positively. The second element 0:13:42.080 --> 0:13:45.280 would be that the revenue backlogs, or the future revenue 0:13:45.280 --> 0:13:48.360 that could come from this capex is now over nine 0:13:48.520 --> 0:13:53.480 hundred billion dollars combined, spread across both Alphabet and Amazon's 0:13:53.600 --> 0:13:57.840 cloud computing divisions. That is giving investors increased confidence that 0:13:57.880 --> 0:14:01.880 there's revenue that will follow allbeit one, two, three years 0:14:01.920 --> 0:14:06.320 after the capex is spent. And interestingly, the margins in 0:14:06.360 --> 0:14:10.240 these cloud segments also surprised to the upside because non 0:14:10.280 --> 0:14:15.640 AI workloads are accelerating structuring data is accelerating, so therefore 0:14:15.800 --> 0:14:19.520 the long term view of earning a return on a 0:14:19.600 --> 0:14:23.200 larger revenue base gave people more confidence. And that's why 0:14:23.200 --> 0:14:26.040 you've seen Amazon and the Alphabet over the last one 0:14:26.680 --> 0:14:29.960 three months act very very well as stocks as there's 0:14:30.000 --> 0:14:31.480 been a greater appreciation for that. 0:14:32.120 --> 0:14:33.880 I mean, Eric at one point this week we wondered 0:14:33.880 --> 0:14:36.000 if Alphabet was going to eclipse in video as the 0:14:36.000 --> 0:14:39.440 world's most valuable company. And we think about that vertical 0:14:39.480 --> 0:14:42.720 integration that is just helping with this flywheel, the fact 0:14:42.760 --> 0:14:44.880 that they are able to have such prowess when it 0:14:44.880 --> 0:14:47.440 comes to TPU and the amount that they're able to 0:14:47.480 --> 0:14:51.000 begain inefficiencies. And I think if Amazon actually using cerebras 0:14:51.240 --> 0:14:56.920 share stock. More broadly, they've been using Cerebris hardware alongside 0:14:56.960 --> 0:14:59.880 some of their own in house chips. How are you 0:15:00.120 --> 0:15:04.280 seeing this world of benefit from using your own self 0:15:04.280 --> 0:15:06.360 made chips alongside those from others. 0:15:06.960 --> 0:15:11.280 Custom Silicon or TPUs from Alphabet and Amazon, we think 0:15:11.360 --> 0:15:15.840 continues to be one of the most underappreciated narratives in 0:15:15.880 --> 0:15:20.840 the market. Firstly, it continues to drive workloads into these 0:15:20.840 --> 0:15:25.360 cloud ecosystems so they capture more revenue overall. Secondarily, because 0:15:25.400 --> 0:15:29.120 they designed the custom silicon, they garner more of the 0:15:29.240 --> 0:15:33.280 margin by doing it. And the performance of TPUs, while 0:15:33.320 --> 0:15:37.200 not quite where GPUs are on an absolute performance basis, 0:15:37.440 --> 0:15:40.360 if you measure it on price to performance, they're actually 0:15:40.480 --> 0:15:43.280 quite competitive. So this is something where you can go 0:15:43.360 --> 0:15:47.160 to your customers offer a price to performance ratio that 0:15:47.200 --> 0:15:51.000 looks very attractive and they benefit from garnering more revenue 0:15:51.040 --> 0:15:54.440 and more incremental margin. That's another theme that we think 0:15:54.520 --> 0:15:57.640 is gaining in prominence across this landscape. 0:15:58.920 --> 0:16:03.480 Eric, you lead the team at that is covering Amazon 0:16:03.520 --> 0:16:06.280 and Alphabet right, and I'm just saying that's point out 0:16:06.280 --> 0:16:10.200 the obvious. That's your focus, but you must track Anthropic 0:16:10.320 --> 0:16:15.320 so closely. Both companies have significant financial interests in anthropic. 0:16:16.080 --> 0:16:20.720 Both have some kind of competition with Anthropic at the 0:16:20.800 --> 0:16:25.680 model level. In Amazon's case, Bedrock is the marketplace for Claude. 0:16:26.080 --> 0:16:29.240 That's very tangled as a web. How do you untangle it? 0:16:30.240 --> 0:16:30.400 Well? 0:16:30.400 --> 0:16:32.680 I think there's a lot without getting into any one 0:16:32.760 --> 0:16:35.960 company in their relationship with another. I think the world 0:16:36.000 --> 0:16:39.160 overall is becoming more interdependent. When it comes to AI, 0:16:39.280 --> 0:16:42.200 you're going to have foundational model companies that need compute, 0:16:42.360 --> 0:16:45.119 You're going to have hyper scalers that can deliver that compute. 0:16:45.280 --> 0:16:48.080 You increasingly are going to have hyperscalers who are effective 0:16:48.120 --> 0:16:51.440 partners that allow the foundational model companies to come to 0:16:51.600 --> 0:16:56.520 market and connect with enterprises like Goldman Sachs, and there 0:16:56.640 --> 0:16:59.360 is going to be a lot of scale that benefits 0:17:00.040 --> 0:17:04.359 driving incremental growth in this landscape. The truest measure of 0:17:04.640 --> 0:17:08.440 technology computing shifts in my career has been that only 0:17:08.480 --> 0:17:11.240 a handful of companies on both the infrastructure and the 0:17:11.280 --> 0:17:15.840 platform layer earn excess returns on capital. So there's only 0:17:15.920 --> 0:17:17.800 going to be a handful of companies that are enterprise 0:17:17.840 --> 0:17:19.800 platform companies. There's only going to be a handful of 0:17:19.800 --> 0:17:22.520 companies that are consumer platform companies. And if you come 0:17:22.520 --> 0:17:25.320 back to the earlier point that you led with, which 0:17:25.359 --> 0:17:28.639 is the capital need for this entire cycle, there's only 0:17:28.640 --> 0:17:30.800 a handful of companies that have the access to capital 0:17:31.080 --> 0:17:32.879 to be able to build to this. So there is 0:17:32.920 --> 0:17:35.639 going to be an interdependence that comes from just a 0:17:35.640 --> 0:17:38.040 handful of companies that can actually build at this level 0:17:38.080 --> 0:17:38.520 of scale. 0:17:39.480 --> 0:17:41.159 Alek Sheridan fascinating. 0:17:41.280 --> 0:17:43.120 Not having you on the show has always come back 0:17:43.160 --> 0:17:44.520 soon of Goldman sachs. 0:17:44.800 --> 0:17:45.480 Now coming up. 0:17:45.800 --> 0:17:49.240 Tensions rise between Apple and Open Ai. Why the AI 0:17:49.280 --> 0:17:52.000 startup is weighing possible legal action against the iPhone maker. 0:17:52.359 --> 0:17:53.440 This is Blomberg Tech. 0:18:02.600 --> 0:18:04.880 And it's time now for talking tech and first up. 0:18:05.160 --> 0:18:08.320 Samsung management is making a rare eleventh hour visit to 0:18:08.440 --> 0:18:11.560 union leaders to a massive chip factory strike, but the 0:18:11.600 --> 0:18:14.320 world stop memory maker is facing an eighteen day walkout 0:18:14.320 --> 0:18:16.680 that could cost the company seven hundred million dollars a 0:18:16.800 --> 0:18:20.720 day and good stall critical AI chip production. Plus Bill 0:18:20.760 --> 0:18:24.000 Ackman's Pershing Square has taken a new course take in Microsoft, 0:18:24.119 --> 0:18:26.800 with Ackman arguing that the market is unestimating the tech 0:18:26.880 --> 0:18:28.400 chanswer resilience now. 0:18:28.480 --> 0:18:30.320 The move comes as Microsoft. 0:18:29.800 --> 0:18:33.280 Continues its aggressive push into AI, reclaiming its status in 0:18:33.400 --> 0:18:37.400 Agwin's portfolio and Elon Musk's XAI, and is officially entering 0:18:37.440 --> 0:18:40.159 the coding agent race with the launch of grock Build 0:18:40.480 --> 0:18:42.560 in an attempt to catch up with down public explaud 0:18:42.880 --> 0:18:46.200 Musk is racing to close that gap in the developer market. 0:18:46.200 --> 0:18:49.320 It's coding agents become the next multi billion dollar frontier 0:18:49.640 --> 0:18:50.200 in AI. 0:18:50.600 --> 0:18:53.840 Ed Let's chat about Open AI. You sat down with 0:18:53.960 --> 0:19:00.439 CFO Sarah Fryer last night, and she you had the 0:19:00.480 --> 0:19:06.520 opportunity to basically say, good timing. Sam Altman's under away 0:19:06.560 --> 0:19:09.280 in a very big case against Elon Musk. And then 0:19:09.320 --> 0:19:11.560 there's the breaking news last night about Apple and the 0:19:11.560 --> 0:19:12.440 relationship flu part. 0:19:12.560 --> 0:19:13.640 Just reflect on. 0:19:13.600 --> 0:19:16.360 It, I mean an extraordinary not saying planfo. 0:19:16.600 --> 0:19:17.760 Great timing though. 0:19:17.800 --> 0:19:20.720 A joy a bounty of news when you're sitting down 0:19:20.720 --> 0:19:24.920 with a key executive. And Sarah fry is very clear 0:19:24.960 --> 0:19:27.119 about what she needs at the moment. She needs money 0:19:27.160 --> 0:19:29.119 for compute that continues. He has already got more than 0:19:29.119 --> 0:19:31.080 one hundred and twenty billion dollars of it, and she's 0:19:31.080 --> 0:19:32.520 got plenty of optionality. 0:19:32.840 --> 0:19:34.760 We talked about her relationship with Sam Altman. 0:19:34.880 --> 0:19:38.560 She's very What's so interesting is she's saying, Look, if 0:19:38.600 --> 0:19:41.480 you want your CEO and CFO to be, you know, 0:19:41.800 --> 0:19:43.560 always agreeing on absolutely. 0:19:43.080 --> 0:19:45.600 Everything, you're sort of getting her wrong steer. That shouldn't 0:19:45.600 --> 0:19:47.320 be how it works. But they have a really good 0:19:47.359 --> 0:19:48.280 working relationship. 0:19:48.280 --> 0:19:50.879 Look, she was just in California at his ranch on 0:19:50.920 --> 0:19:53.760 the weekend because they're working extra time on things like Compute. 0:19:53.880 --> 0:19:55.120 Here is a close relationship. 0:19:55.160 --> 0:19:57.080 But yes, at times they have to disagree, so that 0:19:57.160 --> 0:20:00.400 was an interesting discussion, particularly when we've had some heman's 0:20:00.440 --> 0:20:04.000 own sort of way in which he presents himself and 0:20:04.040 --> 0:20:06.879 the bill in the business being under the coals and 0:20:06.960 --> 0:20:07.680 under the limelight. 0:20:07.880 --> 0:20:08.720 But I think was notable. 0:20:08.720 --> 0:20:11.040 I asked her about the open Ai and Apple relationship, 0:20:11.040 --> 0:20:12.720 and of course she couldn't comment. But this is a 0:20:12.760 --> 0:20:16.200 company that depends on partnerships to get their technology into 0:20:16.200 --> 0:20:16.959 people's hands. 0:20:17.080 --> 0:20:18.080 Apple is key for. 0:20:18.080 --> 0:20:20.480 The CHATCHBT, but it was meant to be better integrated 0:20:20.520 --> 0:20:22.240 into the overall Apple Intelligence experience. 0:20:22.280 --> 0:20:23.880 We're going to get the detail on that just a set. 0:20:23.920 --> 0:20:25.960 We're going to hear more from Kara's conversation with Sarah 0:20:25.960 --> 0:20:28.800 Fryer later this hour. Stick around for that. Here's the 0:20:28.840 --> 0:20:31.880