1 00:00:03,160 --> 00:00:06,160 Speaker 1: Today on the bright side, Kasha or Bonniac is teaching 2 00:00:06,240 --> 00:00:09,080 Speaker 1: us how to reclaim our power, hone our influence, and 3 00:00:09,240 --> 00:00:11,080 Speaker 1: ask for the life we want. 4 00:00:11,760 --> 00:00:14,840 Speaker 2: I want to live in a world where everybody is 5 00:00:14,880 --> 00:00:18,840 Speaker 2: ecstatically happy, and I don't like hurting people. So what 6 00:00:19,040 --> 00:00:22,439 Speaker 2: was behind the people pleaser still exists. What I came 7 00:00:22,480 --> 00:00:27,120 Speaker 2: to understand is that sometimes the most loving thing you 8 00:00:27,160 --> 00:00:30,000 Speaker 2: can do is stop someone from hurting you. 9 00:00:30,440 --> 00:00:32,519 Speaker 3: So, if you're a boss and you have. 10 00:00:32,479 --> 00:00:36,120 Speaker 2: People working for you, if you overfeed them, you overinstruct them, 11 00:00:36,120 --> 00:00:39,840 Speaker 2: you're micromanaging. You kill an opportunity for them to figure 12 00:00:39,880 --> 00:00:42,160 Speaker 2: out their own way. You kill their agency, you get 13 00:00:42,200 --> 00:00:45,880 Speaker 2: in their way. You underfeed them a little bit, you say, 14 00:00:45,920 --> 00:00:48,280 Speaker 2: here's the vision, figure it out. 15 00:00:48,120 --> 00:00:51,000 Speaker 3: Tell me how you did right. It's a stimulant. 16 00:00:51,720 --> 00:00:55,680 Speaker 2: The spirit behind people pleasing is my innate goodness and innocence. 17 00:00:56,920 --> 00:00:57,560 Speaker 3: But what I. 18 00:00:57,520 --> 00:01:00,840 Speaker 2: Learned is that you use what you would say the 19 00:01:00,880 --> 00:01:03,800 Speaker 2: shadow and the light to help the people around you grow, 20 00:01:04,440 --> 00:01:07,640 Speaker 2: to invite them to contribute to you, to contribute to them, 21 00:01:07,680 --> 00:01:09,080 Speaker 2: to have powerful relationships. 22 00:01:09,560 --> 00:01:12,000 Speaker 1: I'm simone voice, and this is the bright side from 23 00:01:12,000 --> 00:01:16,720 Speaker 1: Hello Sunshine, y'all. I am so excited for you to 24 00:01:16,720 --> 00:01:19,120 Speaker 1: hear today's episode of the bright Side. This is a 25 00:01:19,160 --> 00:01:21,720 Speaker 1: conversation I've been wanting to share with you for the 26 00:01:21,800 --> 00:01:25,560 Speaker 1: longest time. Ever since I discovered Kasha Orboniac and her 27 00:01:25,560 --> 00:01:29,760 Speaker 1: book Unbound, A Woman's Guide to Power, I was like, Wow, 28 00:01:30,400 --> 00:01:32,720 Speaker 1: this is going to change the game for so many women, 29 00:01:32,880 --> 00:01:35,160 Speaker 1: and I immediately knew I had to share it with 30 00:01:35,240 --> 00:01:39,280 Speaker 1: every woman in my life. The reason why Kasha's book 31 00:01:39,319 --> 00:01:42,280 Speaker 1: is so transformative for me is because she's the first 32 00:01:42,280 --> 00:01:46,920 Speaker 1: person that really made power feel accessible to me. We 33 00:01:46,959 --> 00:01:49,360 Speaker 1: often think of power as this gendered trait, and for 34 00:01:49,440 --> 00:01:55,000 Speaker 1: good reason, because the world is currently run by powerful men. 35 00:01:55,560 --> 00:01:58,640 Speaker 1: But when you hear Kasha speak today, I hope you 36 00:01:58,720 --> 00:02:03,720 Speaker 1: hear that power is for you too. Kasha is imagining 37 00:02:03,800 --> 00:02:08,200 Speaker 1: a world in which women can and should wield their 38 00:02:08,240 --> 00:02:11,560 Speaker 1: power and wield it for good. Did I mention that 39 00:02:11,600 --> 00:02:14,480 Speaker 1: today's episode is going to get a little spicy. Kasha 40 00:02:14,560 --> 00:02:16,880 Speaker 1: has a very unique background that we'll dig into in 41 00:02:16,880 --> 00:02:20,560 Speaker 1: today's episode. She grew up the daughter of jazz musicians 42 00:02:20,639 --> 00:02:23,400 Speaker 1: and traveled through Europe as a kid, and then as 43 00:02:23,400 --> 00:02:26,760 Speaker 1: an adult. Kasha spent twenty years traveling the world studying 44 00:02:26,760 --> 00:02:30,440 Speaker 1: to become a Taoist nun someone dedicated to the teachings 45 00:02:30,440 --> 00:02:34,840 Speaker 1: and practice of the ancient Chinese philosophy that encourages a simple, 46 00:02:35,160 --> 00:02:39,359 Speaker 1: honest life and a close connection with nature. And it's 47 00:02:39,400 --> 00:02:42,040 Speaker 1: a philosophy that heavily inspired the teachings that you're about 48 00:02:42,080 --> 00:02:45,400 Speaker 1: to hear. Okay, so I mentioned today was gonna get 49 00:02:45,400 --> 00:02:48,240 Speaker 1: a little spicy, right. Well, I say that because the 50 00:02:48,280 --> 00:02:51,680 Speaker 1: way Kasha paid for her studies around the world was 51 00:02:51,720 --> 00:02:54,760 Speaker 1: by being a dominatrix in New York City. M We 52 00:02:54,800 --> 00:02:57,160 Speaker 1: don't get into it, y'all. Let me just end on 53 00:02:57,200 --> 00:02:59,839 Speaker 1: this and then we'll jump into the interview. Her book, 54 00:03:00,160 --> 00:03:04,639 Speaker 1: I mentioned, Unbound, was so impactful for me that on 55 00:03:04,680 --> 00:03:07,280 Speaker 1: my birthday I actually gave it as a gift to 56 00:03:07,320 --> 00:03:10,400 Speaker 1: all my girlfriends. They pulled up to my dinner party 57 00:03:10,919 --> 00:03:13,520 Speaker 1: and when they arrived at their seat at the table, 58 00:03:14,040 --> 00:03:16,440 Speaker 1: there was a copy of her book and a journal 59 00:03:16,480 --> 00:03:20,120 Speaker 1: waiting for them. And that's what today is all about. 60 00:03:20,919 --> 00:03:23,840 Speaker 1: It's about finding the courage to confidently pull up to 61 00:03:23,960 --> 00:03:27,400 Speaker 1: your seat at the table and claim the power that 62 00:03:27,560 --> 00:03:31,760 Speaker 1: is your birthright. So here's my conversation with Kasha or Bonniac. 63 00:03:35,760 --> 00:03:39,320 Speaker 1: Kasha Urbaniak, Welcome to the bright side. Can you trace 64 00:03:39,360 --> 00:03:42,680 Speaker 1: that moment when you first became curious about understanding power? 65 00:03:43,320 --> 00:03:43,720 Speaker 2: Yeah. 66 00:03:43,760 --> 00:03:44,480 Speaker 3: Absolutely. 67 00:03:44,880 --> 00:03:47,040 Speaker 2: I grew up until it was time to go to 68 00:03:47,080 --> 00:03:49,240 Speaker 2: grade school. So the first six years of my life 69 00:03:49,240 --> 00:03:50,880 Speaker 2: I was on the road in Europe. My parents were 70 00:03:50,960 --> 00:03:55,000 Speaker 2: touring jazz musicians and we were in trains, we were 71 00:03:55,160 --> 00:03:58,640 Speaker 2: in vans, we were going, you know, Germany, Sweden, Italy 72 00:03:58,840 --> 00:04:02,480 Speaker 2: Jazz Festival. And at that time, me and my sister, 73 00:04:02,520 --> 00:04:04,080 Speaker 2: who's just a year and a half younger than me, 74 00:04:04,480 --> 00:04:07,560 Speaker 2: we're basically traveling all the time. So we were like 75 00:04:07,880 --> 00:04:10,800 Speaker 2: a community, you could say, the head of purpose, the roadies, 76 00:04:10,840 --> 00:04:13,640 Speaker 2: the other musicians. Then when it came time to go 77 00:04:13,680 --> 00:04:16,360 Speaker 2: to school, I was born here, but I didn't live 78 00:04:16,360 --> 00:04:18,760 Speaker 2: here until it was time to go to first grade. 79 00:04:18,960 --> 00:04:19,960 Speaker 3: The shock. 80 00:04:21,160 --> 00:04:24,520 Speaker 2: Of having to sit in a chair and face one 81 00:04:24,560 --> 00:04:30,719 Speaker 2: direction for eight hours, I started to go a little crazy. 82 00:04:31,080 --> 00:04:36,800 Speaker 2: Jazz musicians, especially, that whole thing is so much about 83 00:04:36,880 --> 00:04:41,680 Speaker 2: responding to the moment and people being able to not 84 00:04:41,760 --> 00:04:45,680 Speaker 2: just cooperate, but co create in this way where there's 85 00:04:45,720 --> 00:04:49,120 Speaker 2: a hierarchy, but it shifts based on the moment. 86 00:04:50,000 --> 00:04:55,000 Speaker 1: So I want to hear how questioning power, questioning systems 87 00:04:55,240 --> 00:04:58,040 Speaker 1: led you to this path of becoming a Taoist, Nun, 88 00:04:58,320 --> 00:05:01,320 Speaker 1: I'm dying to hear about this whole chapter in your life. 89 00:05:01,680 --> 00:05:05,600 Speaker 2: I actually was power allergic. I was one of these 90 00:05:05,600 --> 00:05:07,440 Speaker 2: people who just didn't want to play in the system. 91 00:05:07,960 --> 00:05:10,440 Speaker 2: I wanted to become superhuman magical. 92 00:05:10,560 --> 00:05:11,479 Speaker 3: I wanted an out. 93 00:05:11,560 --> 00:05:14,240 Speaker 2: I wanted to find something else, So I started looking 94 00:05:14,360 --> 00:05:19,240 Speaker 2: for any high level magical master of any tradition. Before 95 00:05:19,279 --> 00:05:21,960 Speaker 2: I even discovered Daoism, I was going to stop and nothing. 96 00:05:22,080 --> 00:05:24,240 Speaker 2: Was going to do whatever it took to find another 97 00:05:24,360 --> 00:05:27,040 Speaker 2: world because I wasn't going to make it here. I 98 00:05:27,120 --> 00:05:30,080 Speaker 2: was power averse to the extreme because I did not 99 00:05:30,160 --> 00:05:30,680 Speaker 2: want to play. 100 00:05:30,800 --> 00:05:32,880 Speaker 1: Wait a second, I have to rewind for a minute, 101 00:05:32,880 --> 00:05:35,160 Speaker 1: because you just said that you were a people pleaser, 102 00:05:35,560 --> 00:05:37,560 Speaker 1: but you were also power allergic. 103 00:05:37,920 --> 00:05:41,240 Speaker 2: Well, power allergic means like I don't want to play games, right, 104 00:05:41,400 --> 00:05:43,840 Speaker 2: Like I don't. I'm not going to try to assert myself. 105 00:05:43,960 --> 00:05:48,000 Speaker 2: I don't want to be dominating. Well, hierarchies don't make sense. 106 00:05:48,000 --> 00:05:50,000 Speaker 2: They did it, They shouldn't exist. Why can't we all 107 00:05:50,040 --> 00:05:53,119 Speaker 2: just listen to each other and be equals. Like, first 108 00:05:53,120 --> 00:05:55,560 Speaker 2: of all, given what I do on my past, people 109 00:05:55,560 --> 00:05:57,800 Speaker 2: are really surprised to find that like I am a 110 00:05:58,120 --> 00:05:59,520 Speaker 2: love bunny. 111 00:06:00,839 --> 00:06:03,279 Speaker 1: Yeah, I think I bet people would be surprised to 112 00:06:03,279 --> 00:06:03,560 Speaker 1: hear that. 113 00:06:03,880 --> 00:06:05,960 Speaker 2: Yeah, but I also know how to scare this shit 114 00:06:06,040 --> 00:06:06,599 Speaker 2: out of people. 115 00:06:08,200 --> 00:06:09,400 Speaker 1: Just a winning combination. 116 00:06:09,800 --> 00:06:12,360 Speaker 2: Well, I had to learn, and I learned how much 117 00:06:12,480 --> 00:06:15,720 Speaker 2: love you can transmit when you're willing to provoke, when 118 00:06:15,760 --> 00:06:18,760 Speaker 2: you're willing to deprive, when you're willing to look at 119 00:06:18,760 --> 00:06:24,040 Speaker 2: this and you see where your niceness kills the agency 120 00:06:24,160 --> 00:06:27,320 Speaker 2: of others, and then being able to see, Wow, things 121 00:06:27,320 --> 00:06:31,039 Speaker 2: are not as I thought, in part because I was 122 00:06:31,080 --> 00:06:34,000 Speaker 2: in a situation where for seventeen years I was working 123 00:06:34,000 --> 00:06:37,080 Speaker 2: as a dominatrix, while for twelve I was trying to 124 00:06:37,080 --> 00:06:40,680 Speaker 2: be a nun. Do you understand that you know the 125 00:06:40,800 --> 00:06:46,640 Speaker 2: spiritual holiness and the you know, first faking power plays, 126 00:06:47,000 --> 00:06:52,920 Speaker 2: then understanding them, then understanding how many people suffer in 127 00:06:53,000 --> 00:06:56,960 Speaker 2: relationships and in power dynamics because of things that are 128 00:06:57,000 --> 00:07:01,560 Speaker 2: just poorly taught, not intention, not heart, but because of 129 00:07:01,600 --> 00:07:05,320 Speaker 2: the patterns that men are raised with, women are raised 130 00:07:05,360 --> 00:07:07,480 Speaker 2: with what we think is good, what we think is bad, 131 00:07:08,080 --> 00:07:11,840 Speaker 2: and how that destroys the natural, authentic communication and transmissions 132 00:07:11,880 --> 00:07:14,560 Speaker 2: of love and desire and possibility. 133 00:07:15,120 --> 00:07:18,600 Speaker 1: So what did you discover about power both through your 134 00:07:18,600 --> 00:07:22,560 Speaker 1: work as a dominatrix and in your work studying to 135 00:07:22,600 --> 00:07:25,880 Speaker 1: become a Taoist nun. What were some of the biggest revelations. 136 00:07:26,040 --> 00:07:31,239 Speaker 2: The Daoist path is really beautiful because it includes medical healing. 137 00:07:32,160 --> 00:07:35,560 Speaker 2: It's where acupuncture and Chinese medicine comes from, the martial 138 00:07:35,640 --> 00:07:39,760 Speaker 2: arts and the metaphysical arts. So it really is is 139 00:07:39,760 --> 00:07:41,880 Speaker 2: a path that has a lot of embodiment right. It 140 00:07:41,960 --> 00:07:46,160 Speaker 2: has power, the power of fighting and struggle, It has healing, 141 00:07:46,960 --> 00:07:49,960 Speaker 2: and it also has the transcendent. I started seeing the 142 00:07:49,960 --> 00:07:53,960 Speaker 2: similarity between being a healer who looks at a patient, 143 00:07:54,320 --> 00:07:57,560 Speaker 2: who looks and diagnoses them, and being a dominatrix who 144 00:07:57,560 --> 00:08:00,320 Speaker 2: puts her attention on a submissive and leads them through 145 00:08:00,360 --> 00:08:03,040 Speaker 2: an experience. That's just the first simple thing that happened. 146 00:08:03,880 --> 00:08:04,960 Speaker 3: And all of these. 147 00:08:04,880 --> 00:08:09,520 Speaker 2: Taoist practices they're also about attention, whether it's martial, medical, metaphysical. 148 00:08:10,680 --> 00:08:16,480 Speaker 2: And what I suddenly realized is my power allergy, my 149 00:08:16,680 --> 00:08:26,720 Speaker 2: power aversion was actually a misuse of power aversion. I 150 00:08:26,800 --> 00:08:31,960 Speaker 2: began to understand that the person on top a good teacher, leader, healer, 151 00:08:32,559 --> 00:08:40,079 Speaker 2: dom is putting her attention on the submissive, the patient, 152 00:08:40,120 --> 00:08:43,400 Speaker 2: the client, the student. A good teacher is leading the 153 00:08:43,440 --> 00:08:48,760 Speaker 2: other person through an experience by guiding them, teaching them 154 00:08:48,800 --> 00:08:52,880 Speaker 2: and putting their attention out. And then I understood that 155 00:08:52,880 --> 00:08:57,440 Speaker 2: that is hierarchy, and it's happening all the time, but 156 00:08:57,640 --> 00:09:00,040 Speaker 2: it is at its most powerful when it's served a 157 00:09:00,280 --> 00:09:03,320 Speaker 2: purpose and has the flexibility to switch when required. 158 00:09:05,640 --> 00:09:07,360 Speaker 1: We've got to take a short break, but we'll be 159 00:09:07,440 --> 00:09:12,920 Speaker 1: right back with Kasha or Boniac. And we're back with 160 00:09:13,040 --> 00:09:15,480 Speaker 1: Kasha or Boniac. What you write in the book about 161 00:09:15,480 --> 00:09:19,839 Speaker 1: attention was so profound to me and I haven't stopped 162 00:09:19,840 --> 00:09:24,040 Speaker 1: thinking about it since. And I'd love for you to 163 00:09:24,080 --> 00:09:29,120 Speaker 1: share what the difference is between the dominant state and 164 00:09:29,200 --> 00:09:33,880 Speaker 1: the submissive state, because attention is that tool that we 165 00:09:33,880 --> 00:09:36,359 Speaker 1: can use to toggle between those two states. 166 00:09:37,080 --> 00:09:40,760 Speaker 2: So everybody does dominant and submissive. Everybody switches. There are 167 00:09:40,840 --> 00:09:43,679 Speaker 2: tendencies of where we default to when we panic. This 168 00:09:43,760 --> 00:09:47,319 Speaker 2: is a gender stereotype, so this is a gross over generalization, 169 00:09:47,640 --> 00:09:50,320 Speaker 2: but it's easy to understand. Women have a really easy 170 00:09:50,360 --> 00:09:54,720 Speaker 2: time accessing the surrendered submissive state. It's very powerful. It's 171 00:09:54,800 --> 00:09:58,560 Speaker 2: not less powerful. How powerful a dominant or submissive state 172 00:09:58,640 --> 00:10:00,600 Speaker 2: is depends on how well you do it. So two 173 00:10:00,640 --> 00:10:05,520 Speaker 2: women get together, they meet, she talks about her experience, 174 00:10:05,520 --> 00:10:10,920 Speaker 2: an update, Right, submissive, surrendered, relatable, allowing the other person 175 00:10:11,040 --> 00:10:15,960 Speaker 2: into her world. Right, that's the submissive state of attention. 176 00:10:16,240 --> 00:10:19,440 Speaker 2: It's about me. I'm sharing myself. I'm talking about my experience, 177 00:10:19,800 --> 00:10:22,959 Speaker 2: like be there with me. Feel it resonate. So two 178 00:10:23,040 --> 00:10:27,120 Speaker 2: women will take turns being submissives. Sometimes they'll give each 179 00:10:27,160 --> 00:10:29,840 Speaker 2: other advice. Sometimes it's unsolicited. They go dominant it feel 180 00:10:30,120 --> 00:10:32,080 Speaker 2: it feels good or feels bad, whatever, But they have 181 00:10:32,080 --> 00:10:35,240 Speaker 2: an easy time doing that. Two guys get together. They 182 00:10:35,360 --> 00:10:38,280 Speaker 2: are taught to use the dominant state of attention. But 183 00:10:38,320 --> 00:10:40,600 Speaker 2: if two guys get dominant and they go you you you, 184 00:10:40,640 --> 00:10:43,680 Speaker 2: they'll have a fight. So they have no way to connect. 185 00:10:43,920 --> 00:10:47,080 Speaker 2: So what they do is this funny thing called the 186 00:10:47,080 --> 00:10:51,720 Speaker 2: third part of speech. Instead of having a fight, they 187 00:10:51,720 --> 00:10:55,280 Speaker 2: talk about a third neutral thing like sports, politics, the weather. 188 00:10:56,520 --> 00:10:59,240 Speaker 2: They have to use something else because they are not 189 00:10:59,320 --> 00:11:06,040 Speaker 2: permitted to this. Again, gross generalization. This is how attention 190 00:11:06,160 --> 00:11:09,680 Speaker 2: can get gendered. Obviously, if people are really deeply connected, 191 00:11:09,800 --> 00:11:12,040 Speaker 2: they're gonna do both. They're gonna take turns. I have 192 00:11:12,120 --> 00:11:15,120 Speaker 2: this feeling I was thinking about this about you. 193 00:11:15,120 --> 00:11:16,800 Speaker 3: You know you should try you should try this. You 194 00:11:16,800 --> 00:11:18,199 Speaker 3: know what? I noticed you do this great thing? 195 00:11:18,360 --> 00:11:22,240 Speaker 2: You know what I was thinking. Right, that's natural, normal connection. 196 00:11:22,600 --> 00:11:27,719 Speaker 2: But those two examples are what so often gets misunderstood 197 00:11:27,880 --> 00:11:28,920 Speaker 2: and where we get stuck. 198 00:11:29,240 --> 00:11:31,960 Speaker 1: How do you know when to toggle between the two? 199 00:11:32,160 --> 00:11:34,960 Speaker 2: There's a lot of reasons to flip. In my classes, 200 00:11:35,160 --> 00:11:39,760 Speaker 2: we do a really simple exercise early on which two 201 00:11:39,760 --> 00:11:44,079 Speaker 2: women sit in front of each other, and one of them, 202 00:11:44,200 --> 00:11:46,839 Speaker 2: in a very structured way, in a dominant way, in 203 00:11:46,880 --> 00:11:50,280 Speaker 2: a loving way, has to compliment the other one, and 204 00:11:50,320 --> 00:11:51,320 Speaker 2: the one receiving. 205 00:11:51,000 --> 00:11:55,640 Speaker 3: The compliments has to not get tense. She's to see 206 00:11:55,679 --> 00:11:56,360 Speaker 3: how many. 207 00:11:56,120 --> 00:11:59,360 Speaker 2: Compliments she can take before she starts her body starts tensing. 208 00:12:00,280 --> 00:12:03,760 Speaker 2: And it's shocking because this is like the safest environment ever. 209 00:12:03,800 --> 00:12:05,880 Speaker 2: This is a game, and it's like you can just 210 00:12:05,920 --> 00:12:08,920 Speaker 2: watch the bodies in the room. It's like three compliments 211 00:12:09,000 --> 00:12:09,560 Speaker 2: and they're. 212 00:12:09,360 --> 00:12:11,240 Speaker 3: Like, aha, I can't take anymore. 213 00:12:11,640 --> 00:12:14,320 Speaker 2: We who want love and attention right, turns out we're 214 00:12:14,360 --> 00:12:17,600 Speaker 2: trained to really collapse and cringe when we get what 215 00:12:17,640 --> 00:12:20,000 Speaker 2: we want. That's primarily why I have a job in 216 00:12:20,040 --> 00:12:22,120 Speaker 2: this world, because I get women aligned with what they 217 00:12:22,120 --> 00:12:24,880 Speaker 2: want so they can receive it. A moment to switch 218 00:12:25,920 --> 00:12:30,120 Speaker 2: might be when you're full, you got three compliments. You 219 00:12:30,200 --> 00:12:31,840 Speaker 2: might be aware that this is what you can take 220 00:12:31,960 --> 00:12:35,600 Speaker 2: right now, you want to expand. So what happens you 221 00:12:35,640 --> 00:12:41,600 Speaker 2: see reckless deflection or you know, oh this shirt, this 222 00:12:41,760 --> 00:12:44,560 Speaker 2: ugly thing, right, can't handle it right, so you change 223 00:12:44,600 --> 00:12:46,600 Speaker 2: the subject. People do this anyway, but when you do 224 00:12:46,640 --> 00:12:49,040 Speaker 2: it intentionally, you can stretch and grow. 225 00:12:50,320 --> 00:12:51,280 Speaker 3: Another is. 226 00:12:52,920 --> 00:12:57,600 Speaker 2: They're daming you, right, somebody giving you attention, but they're 227 00:12:57,640 --> 00:13:02,520 Speaker 2: not that skilled, and they say something that doesn't feel right, 228 00:13:02,559 --> 00:13:08,120 Speaker 2: doesn't land well, And instead of allowing yourself to get 229 00:13:08,200 --> 00:13:11,440 Speaker 2: hurt or get deeper into a place of reaction, you 230 00:13:11,480 --> 00:13:12,040 Speaker 2: can flip. 231 00:13:13,720 --> 00:13:16,920 Speaker 3: You can flip by saying, oh, that's funny. 232 00:13:16,960 --> 00:13:18,600 Speaker 2: I know that meant to be a compliment, but what 233 00:13:18,679 --> 00:13:21,040 Speaker 2: makes you say that, right, because you're already putting the 234 00:13:21,040 --> 00:13:23,040 Speaker 2: attention on them, Or you can put the attention on 235 00:13:23,080 --> 00:13:26,200 Speaker 2: them in an entirely different way and just cleanse the palette. 236 00:13:27,280 --> 00:13:31,560 Speaker 2: There are also times where, for example, I'm talking a lot, 237 00:13:31,679 --> 00:13:35,440 Speaker 2: I'm so so so excited to be talking to you, Simone. 238 00:13:35,679 --> 00:13:39,360 Speaker 1: And you love it, you have me. I mean, I'm 239 00:13:39,440 --> 00:13:41,480 Speaker 1: like in your grasp. I'm just listening. 240 00:13:41,600 --> 00:13:43,840 Speaker 2: But you're also such a good dom and such a 241 00:13:43,840 --> 00:13:47,600 Speaker 2: good interviewer. And reason for me to flip right now 242 00:13:47,760 --> 00:13:51,840 Speaker 2: might be that I've been interviewed by so many people 243 00:13:51,840 --> 00:13:55,960 Speaker 2: who ask really weak questions, and I might be missing 244 00:13:56,040 --> 00:14:02,720 Speaker 2: out on your dominance, on your intelligence. I'm saying things 245 00:14:02,720 --> 00:14:06,080 Speaker 2: I already know right So maybe I would go into 246 00:14:06,080 --> 00:14:09,480 Speaker 2: submissive right now. Maybe I would allow myself to receive. 247 00:14:09,160 --> 00:14:09,920 Speaker 3: Your next question. 248 00:14:10,400 --> 00:14:12,520 Speaker 1: That was beautifully done, by the way, Thank you for that. 249 00:14:13,240 --> 00:14:14,880 Speaker 1: There's a line of yours from the book that I 250 00:14:14,960 --> 00:14:17,480 Speaker 1: quote often, and I hope I get it right. But 251 00:14:17,520 --> 00:14:20,880 Speaker 1: it's something like the most radical thing a woman can 252 00:14:20,920 --> 00:14:24,600 Speaker 1: do is want. It feels scary to ask for what 253 00:14:24,640 --> 00:14:27,640 Speaker 1: we want. I think that's in large part due to 254 00:14:27,680 --> 00:14:31,080 Speaker 1: the good girl conditioning that you've been talking about. Which 255 00:14:31,600 --> 00:14:36,280 Speaker 1: state is more effective for asking for something that we want? 256 00:14:37,080 --> 00:14:38,680 Speaker 1: And can you give me an example of what it 257 00:14:38,680 --> 00:14:41,680 Speaker 1: looks like to ask for something from a dominant state 258 00:14:42,480 --> 00:14:44,720 Speaker 1: versus the surrendered submissive state. 259 00:14:45,480 --> 00:14:46,000 Speaker 3: When we. 260 00:14:48,080 --> 00:14:52,840 Speaker 2: Rush to ask for what we want, it's really important 261 00:14:52,880 --> 00:14:56,880 Speaker 2: that we first know what we want. And because we 262 00:14:56,920 --> 00:15:00,920 Speaker 2: live in a culture of goals, resolutions, and what I 263 00:15:00,920 --> 00:15:04,040 Speaker 2: would call compensatory desires. Those are the ones that fix problems. 264 00:15:04,680 --> 00:15:06,880 Speaker 2: People might argue with me about this, and they like to, 265 00:15:07,360 --> 00:15:11,000 Speaker 2: but I really see that there is a prohibition against 266 00:15:11,040 --> 00:15:16,720 Speaker 2: women wanting things desire. It's funneled into consumerism, and it's 267 00:15:16,720 --> 00:15:18,520 Speaker 2: funneled into hyper productivity. 268 00:15:18,520 --> 00:15:20,120 Speaker 3: But I'm talking about real desire. 269 00:15:21,120 --> 00:15:27,320 Speaker 2: If you are inviting people, asking people to give you 270 00:15:27,400 --> 00:15:31,240 Speaker 2: something you want, and you ask not for the one 271 00:15:31,320 --> 00:15:36,400 Speaker 2: hundred percent, but for the ninety nine percent, you are 272 00:15:36,840 --> 00:15:39,240 Speaker 2: disempowering them, gas. 273 00:15:39,120 --> 00:15:41,720 Speaker 3: Lighting them, and hiding your joy and delight. 274 00:15:41,800 --> 00:15:47,240 Speaker 2: And we are consistently doing this, even with something simple 275 00:15:47,320 --> 00:15:50,160 Speaker 2: like they say, do you want to go out for dinner? 276 00:15:50,520 --> 00:15:53,040 Speaker 2: They want Italian, you want Chinese. You end up going 277 00:15:53,080 --> 00:15:55,000 Speaker 2: to Japanese because there's ood on. It's like a little 278 00:15:55,000 --> 00:15:57,320 Speaker 2: bit of both. And you lie right, you say. 279 00:15:57,440 --> 00:15:58,080 Speaker 3: I'm fine with that. 280 00:15:59,120 --> 00:16:02,960 Speaker 2: People know when they've lit you up, and people know 281 00:16:03,160 --> 00:16:06,120 Speaker 2: when they haven't. And when you minimize what you want, 282 00:16:06,160 --> 00:16:08,600 Speaker 2: when you shrink it even just a little bit, and 283 00:16:08,640 --> 00:16:10,920 Speaker 2: they go through the trouble of doing it and making 284 00:16:10,920 --> 00:16:14,440 Speaker 2: it happen, and they don't see you light up, they know, 285 00:16:15,800 --> 00:16:20,600 Speaker 2: they really really know. They start learning that they do 286 00:16:20,680 --> 00:16:24,240 Speaker 2: not have the power to light you up when you 287 00:16:24,400 --> 00:16:27,840 Speaker 2: let somebody light you up because you give one hundred 288 00:16:27,880 --> 00:16:31,120 Speaker 2: percent answer and they deliver one hundred percent, and they 289 00:16:31,160 --> 00:16:34,160 Speaker 2: see that it's like winning a video game. They want 290 00:16:34,160 --> 00:16:35,920 Speaker 2: to do it again and again and again and again 291 00:16:35,960 --> 00:16:36,800 Speaker 2: and again and again. 292 00:16:37,040 --> 00:16:38,640 Speaker 3: You make somebody And I'm not talking, I have a. 293 00:16:38,600 --> 00:16:41,600 Speaker 2: Performative joy because what we'll do so often is we'll 294 00:16:41,600 --> 00:16:43,880 Speaker 2: get something close and we go, oh, thank you so much, 295 00:16:43,880 --> 00:16:47,760 Speaker 2: on my God, and it's bullshit because you can feel 296 00:16:47,840 --> 00:16:50,320 Speaker 2: that these are bodies talking to each other. Okay, you 297 00:16:50,360 --> 00:16:52,320 Speaker 2: ask a room of women, what do I want? They're 298 00:16:52,400 --> 00:16:55,080 Speaker 2: rushing to answer. They're rushing to answer. They're not just 299 00:16:55,200 --> 00:16:57,720 Speaker 2: dating and birthing a desire. They're rushing. They're like, I 300 00:16:57,760 --> 00:16:59,160 Speaker 2: gotta get an answer. I gotta know what I want. 301 00:16:59,160 --> 00:17:00,560 Speaker 2: I'm a person who knows she wants. 302 00:17:00,720 --> 00:17:05,199 Speaker 1: So what is that about? Because we're simultaneously rushing to 303 00:17:05,359 --> 00:17:09,919 Speaker 1: find an answer that we think is societally acceptable. And 304 00:17:09,960 --> 00:17:13,760 Speaker 1: then we're also shrinking and not showing up and not 305 00:17:14,359 --> 00:17:17,639 Speaker 1: clearly declaring our desires and wants. 306 00:17:17,600 --> 00:17:20,480 Speaker 2: Because we think to long for something makes us desperate 307 00:17:20,680 --> 00:17:25,600 Speaker 2: instead of making us magnets. We think that okay, context 308 00:17:25,680 --> 00:17:29,480 Speaker 2: historical context. Let's be real, We've had millennia of patriarchy 309 00:17:29,480 --> 00:17:31,720 Speaker 2: where the most a woman could ever aspire to was 310 00:17:31,760 --> 00:17:34,199 Speaker 2: to marry well, and how she would make herself a 311 00:17:34,240 --> 00:17:36,520 Speaker 2: candidate for marriage is to be somebody who doesn't want 312 00:17:36,600 --> 00:17:40,080 Speaker 2: or need that much because women are expensive. And basically 313 00:17:40,440 --> 00:17:44,000 Speaker 2: for thousands of years we've been going, hey, I'm cheap, 314 00:17:44,480 --> 00:17:46,160 Speaker 2: I'm resourceful, I make. 315 00:17:46,080 --> 00:17:48,840 Speaker 1: Do, I'm low maintenance, low. 316 00:17:48,960 --> 00:17:51,320 Speaker 2: Yeah. Now it's like now it's like I'm cool. I'm 317 00:17:51,320 --> 00:17:54,640 Speaker 2: sure I'm not that right. So to long for things, 318 00:17:54,840 --> 00:17:58,280 Speaker 2: to want something and not have it, and the masculine. 319 00:17:57,800 --> 00:18:00,000 Speaker 3: Paradigm is a sign of lack of competence. 320 00:18:00,720 --> 00:18:05,120 Speaker 2: But really, if women have a birth structure, it doesn't 321 00:18:05,160 --> 00:18:07,280 Speaker 2: matter if you become a mother or not. But like 322 00:18:07,720 --> 00:18:12,720 Speaker 2: we pull in energy resources and we get full, and 323 00:18:12,800 --> 00:18:16,000 Speaker 2: when we get full, we birth the next thing. Right, 324 00:18:16,280 --> 00:18:20,280 Speaker 2: that whole process identifying a desire, feeling it, not being 325 00:18:20,280 --> 00:18:23,000 Speaker 2: able to name the baby yet that requires an investment 326 00:18:23,000 --> 00:18:24,480 Speaker 2: that if we think of ourselves in the. 327 00:18:24,440 --> 00:18:26,000 Speaker 3: Masculine is a weakness. 328 00:18:26,040 --> 00:18:28,840 Speaker 2: I want something I don't have, so it doesn't have 329 00:18:28,920 --> 00:18:31,680 Speaker 2: to take that long, but that process has to be respected. 330 00:18:31,880 --> 00:18:34,399 Speaker 2: But that's why I lead women through a process of 331 00:18:34,440 --> 00:18:36,680 Speaker 2: identifying what they want in a way that they can 332 00:18:36,720 --> 00:18:40,040 Speaker 2: feel in their body and their heart, in their mind. 333 00:18:40,080 --> 00:18:42,600 Speaker 3: So when it comes to speaking it. 334 00:18:42,160 --> 00:18:44,800 Speaker 2: It has the truth, the space that the one hundred 335 00:18:44,840 --> 00:18:47,320 Speaker 2: percent not the ninety nine percent, and it has a 336 00:18:47,359 --> 00:18:48,760 Speaker 2: power that's already there. 337 00:18:48,880 --> 00:18:51,280 Speaker 1: I want to stay on desire for a moment because 338 00:18:51,280 --> 00:18:55,160 Speaker 1: this really is a core building block of your teachings. 339 00:18:55,200 --> 00:18:58,080 Speaker 1: You write in your book that behind every complaint there 340 00:18:58,160 --> 00:19:01,960 Speaker 1: is a desire behind it. It can you share one 341 00:19:02,080 --> 00:19:06,040 Speaker 1: exercise with us that helps us identify our desires. 342 00:19:06,359 --> 00:19:09,879 Speaker 2: There are in the book really straightforward desire exercises, ones 343 00:19:09,920 --> 00:19:12,080 Speaker 2: that logically makes sense. The one I'm going to recommend 344 00:19:12,160 --> 00:19:17,360 Speaker 2: right now might be counterintuitive. It's called the Bad Girl protocol. 345 00:19:19,520 --> 00:19:21,280 Speaker 2: To get to one hundred percent of what you want, 346 00:19:21,920 --> 00:19:24,760 Speaker 2: to get to the desires that are deeply felt in 347 00:19:24,800 --> 00:19:28,040 Speaker 2: the body, we do have to check the closet where 348 00:19:28,040 --> 00:19:33,159 Speaker 2: we keep the skeletons, because of course there are things 349 00:19:33,280 --> 00:19:38,240 Speaker 2: in there when you do an exercise where you're literally going, 350 00:19:38,359 --> 00:19:40,439 Speaker 2: if I were the super villain, if I were the 351 00:19:40,480 --> 00:19:44,320 Speaker 2: bad girl, if I were the enemy, I I would 352 00:19:44,520 --> 00:19:47,080 Speaker 2: and then you fill in the blank with something vengeful, 353 00:19:47,119 --> 00:19:51,160 Speaker 2: with something wicked, with something mischievous, with something truly bad. 354 00:19:52,720 --> 00:19:56,680 Speaker 2: When you do that exercise in a free flow of thought, 355 00:19:57,400 --> 00:20:00,560 Speaker 2: the shocking thing is lots of stuff get it's stuck 356 00:20:00,600 --> 00:20:05,080 Speaker 2: in that closet that doesn't belong there. So a woman's 357 00:20:05,080 --> 00:20:07,639 Speaker 2: bad girl protocol could sound like, if I were a 358 00:20:07,680 --> 00:20:08,600 Speaker 2: bad girl. 359 00:20:08,320 --> 00:20:10,600 Speaker 3: I would get eight hours of sleep every night. 360 00:20:10,880 --> 00:20:14,639 Speaker 2: If I were a bad girl, I would take over 361 00:20:15,080 --> 00:20:18,280 Speaker 2: the art gallery that I work at by getting that 362 00:20:18,440 --> 00:20:22,760 Speaker 2: guy who has a lot of money to buy me 363 00:20:23,000 --> 00:20:24,120 Speaker 2: a position. 364 00:20:23,680 --> 00:20:25,080 Speaker 3: There, or buy out the whatever. 365 00:20:25,280 --> 00:20:30,359 Speaker 2: The point is you start in this free, wicked, immoral 366 00:20:30,440 --> 00:20:35,360 Speaker 2: place to start seeing things that you want. And sometimes 367 00:20:36,000 --> 00:20:40,359 Speaker 2: what happens in that exercise is straightforward, really good. 368 00:20:40,600 --> 00:20:42,080 Speaker 3: Doesn't even belong on that list. 369 00:20:42,880 --> 00:20:46,040 Speaker 2: There's this space where imagination gets limited because of our 370 00:20:46,080 --> 00:20:50,399 Speaker 2: fear of hurting people, and a piece of paper and 371 00:20:50,440 --> 00:20:52,240 Speaker 2: an exercise is a safe space. 372 00:20:52,720 --> 00:20:53,520 Speaker 3: And you can even. 373 00:20:53,400 --> 00:20:55,199 Speaker 2: Laugh at some of the stuff that comes up. But 374 00:20:55,600 --> 00:20:59,480 Speaker 2: it actually is the quickest way, the quickest way to 375 00:21:00,080 --> 00:21:03,400 Speaker 2: find hidden desires. It's the quickest way to be like, wait, 376 00:21:03,440 --> 00:21:05,080 Speaker 2: I'm sick it is I want something better. 377 00:21:05,400 --> 00:21:07,800 Speaker 1: Even as you're talking about the bad girl protocol right now, 378 00:21:07,800 --> 00:21:11,280 Speaker 1: I can feel my good girl conditioning rising up in 379 00:21:11,359 --> 00:21:14,080 Speaker 1: my body and being like, oh no, no, no, you 380 00:21:14,080 --> 00:21:18,040 Speaker 1: can't do something bad, you can't do something immoral or wicked, 381 00:21:18,119 --> 00:21:20,760 Speaker 1: or you can't even think about those things. But you're 382 00:21:20,760 --> 00:21:23,480 Speaker 1: saying that even just allowing your mind to go there 383 00:21:23,840 --> 00:21:26,560 Speaker 1: is liberating. It opens up new thoughts. 384 00:21:26,880 --> 00:21:27,160 Speaker 3: Yeah. 385 00:21:27,320 --> 00:21:31,120 Speaker 2: Yeah, so I did the best I could to write 386 00:21:31,160 --> 00:21:33,240 Speaker 2: a book that was like a class. One of the 387 00:21:33,280 --> 00:21:36,760 Speaker 2: things is when women get into a room together. When 388 00:21:36,800 --> 00:21:40,360 Speaker 2: you hear a woman say her that girl protocol, when 389 00:21:40,400 --> 00:21:43,760 Speaker 2: you hear her say her villain protocol, there is such 390 00:21:43,800 --> 00:21:47,080 Speaker 2: a delight in you. You look at her face and 391 00:21:47,119 --> 00:21:50,440 Speaker 2: you understand she doesn't actually want to pull out a machete. 392 00:21:50,480 --> 00:21:53,359 Speaker 2: You know, it's just that she's had it and she's 393 00:21:53,359 --> 00:21:55,240 Speaker 2: telling the truth in some kind of way. 394 00:21:55,320 --> 00:21:57,160 Speaker 3: Right, She's telling a truth. 395 00:21:57,200 --> 00:21:58,919 Speaker 2: In a way that she hasn't before, And in that 396 00:21:59,040 --> 00:22:03,280 Speaker 2: space it becomes easier to have permission to play there. Yes, one, 397 00:22:04,200 --> 00:22:06,880 Speaker 2: this is about role play. Is this is the part 398 00:22:06,920 --> 00:22:11,439 Speaker 2: that comes from the dungeon. The beauty of seeing a 399 00:22:11,520 --> 00:22:14,200 Speaker 2: woman finally tell the truth or feel the truth about 400 00:22:14,200 --> 00:22:18,080 Speaker 2: her circumstances. That's where the real desires come in. And yes, 401 00:22:19,320 --> 00:22:22,240 Speaker 2: you want to protect what you love, and you do 402 00:22:22,320 --> 00:22:27,600 Speaker 2: want to sacrifice and protect and serve and devote, But 403 00:22:27,760 --> 00:22:33,320 Speaker 2: your generosity, your devotion, your sacrifices, they only become more potent, 404 00:22:34,200 --> 00:22:38,680 Speaker 2: more generative when you understand how to protect them, when 405 00:22:38,720 --> 00:22:41,920 Speaker 2: you know the opposite as well. Sometimes it's even cathartic 406 00:22:42,000 --> 00:22:44,800 Speaker 2: to realize this stuff. You're the bad stuff you're not doing. 407 00:22:46,080 --> 00:22:49,000 Speaker 1: Like you mentioned something that I wanted to ask you about. 408 00:22:49,040 --> 00:22:51,280 Speaker 1: You said that you used to be a people pleaser, 409 00:22:51,680 --> 00:22:54,760 Speaker 1: so it sounds like you you're in recovery. How did 410 00:22:54,800 --> 00:22:55,240 Speaker 1: you do that? 411 00:22:55,359 --> 00:22:58,760 Speaker 2: I want to live in a world where everybody is 412 00:22:58,760 --> 00:23:04,240 Speaker 2: ecstatically happy, and I don't like hurting people, So what 413 00:23:04,359 --> 00:23:07,720 Speaker 2: was behind the people pleaser still exists. What I came 414 00:23:07,760 --> 00:23:12,399 Speaker 2: to understand is that sometimes the most loving thing you 415 00:23:12,440 --> 00:23:16,400 Speaker 2: can do is stop someone from hurting you. So, if 416 00:23:16,400 --> 00:23:18,679 Speaker 2: you're a boss and you have people working for you, 417 00:23:19,240 --> 00:23:23,040 Speaker 2: if you overfeed them, you overinstruct them, you're micromanaging. You 418 00:23:23,119 --> 00:23:25,920 Speaker 2: kill an opportunity for them to figure out their own way. 419 00:23:25,960 --> 00:23:28,840 Speaker 2: You kill their agency, You get in their way. You 420 00:23:29,400 --> 00:23:32,080 Speaker 2: underfeed them a little bit, you say here's the vision, 421 00:23:32,680 --> 00:23:33,240 Speaker 2: figure it. 422 00:23:33,160 --> 00:23:35,240 Speaker 3: Out, tell me how you did right. 423 00:23:35,359 --> 00:23:38,919 Speaker 2: It's a stimulant. The spirit behind people pleasing is my 424 00:23:39,200 --> 00:23:44,400 Speaker 2: innate goodness and innocence. But what I learned is that 425 00:23:44,600 --> 00:23:46,200 Speaker 2: you use what you would say. 426 00:23:46,080 --> 00:23:47,320 Speaker 3: The shadow and the light. 427 00:23:48,840 --> 00:23:51,840 Speaker 2: To help the people around you grow, to invite them 428 00:23:51,880 --> 00:23:54,439 Speaker 2: to contribute to you, to contribute to them, to have 429 00:23:54,520 --> 00:23:57,800 Speaker 2: powerful relationships. You can use all the tools. You can 430 00:23:57,880 --> 00:24:01,000 Speaker 2: deprive people, you can spoil people, and it takes a 431 00:24:01,000 --> 00:24:04,360 Speaker 2: bit of maturity and wisdom to go all right, I 432 00:24:04,440 --> 00:24:07,320 Speaker 2: love this person, so I am not going to lend 433 00:24:07,320 --> 00:24:12,280 Speaker 2: them money, because I'm putting them in a position to 434 00:24:12,440 --> 00:24:15,280 Speaker 2: spend months being beholden to me and making excuses and 435 00:24:15,359 --> 00:24:17,959 Speaker 2: me being resentful and mad to them. I know how 436 00:24:17,960 --> 00:24:20,960 Speaker 2: this is going to go. I'll give them that money 437 00:24:21,000 --> 00:24:23,280 Speaker 2: if I can, but I won't give them too much 438 00:24:24,000 --> 00:24:26,639 Speaker 2: because then I'll grow resentful. Right, So like it becomes, 439 00:24:26,720 --> 00:24:29,240 Speaker 2: it's still people pleasing you or the spirit behind it. 440 00:24:29,680 --> 00:24:31,720 Speaker 2: So I would say I have turned people pleasing into 441 00:24:31,760 --> 00:24:37,879 Speaker 2: an art form where I torture people and challenge them, 442 00:24:38,280 --> 00:24:41,679 Speaker 2: make them rise to the occasion, have them be the 443 00:24:41,720 --> 00:24:45,640 Speaker 2: best versions of themselves. Also, I spoil them, flatter them, 444 00:24:45,880 --> 00:24:48,679 Speaker 2: love the hell out of them, and do so consciously. 445 00:24:50,200 --> 00:24:51,920 Speaker 1: We've got to take a short break, but we'll be 446 00:24:52,000 --> 00:25:02,359 Speaker 1: right back with Kasha or Boniac. And we're back with 447 00:25:02,480 --> 00:25:06,400 Speaker 1: Kasha or Boniac. Spoiling in flattery brings me to what 448 00:25:06,440 --> 00:25:08,920 Speaker 1: we were talking about earlier, which is how to ask 449 00:25:09,000 --> 00:25:11,680 Speaker 1: for what you want. Yeah, so, now that we've established 450 00:25:11,680 --> 00:25:16,639 Speaker 1: the history behind why women suppress our desires, how to 451 00:25:16,680 --> 00:25:20,200 Speaker 1: find those desires, how to tap into the bad girl protocol, 452 00:25:20,800 --> 00:25:23,520 Speaker 1: how do we actually make a big request? How do 453 00:25:23,560 --> 00:25:26,320 Speaker 1: we ask for what we want and use the two 454 00:25:26,400 --> 00:25:30,080 Speaker 1: states of attention dominant and submissive in order to achieve 455 00:25:30,119 --> 00:25:30,480 Speaker 1: that goal. 456 00:25:30,720 --> 00:25:36,000 Speaker 2: What I have my student's practice is practicing the ask 457 00:25:36,359 --> 00:25:39,919 Speaker 2: from a dominant position and practicing the ask from a 458 00:25:39,920 --> 00:25:43,679 Speaker 2: submissive position so that when they do ask, there's no 459 00:25:43,760 --> 00:25:47,000 Speaker 2: power struggle. They're comfortable moving into the submissive or in 460 00:25:47,040 --> 00:25:52,439 Speaker 2: the dominant, depending on what's required. So give me an 461 00:25:52,480 --> 00:25:53,640 Speaker 2: example of an ask. 462 00:25:54,400 --> 00:25:56,760 Speaker 1: Asking my husband if I can go on a girls 463 00:25:56,760 --> 00:26:01,280 Speaker 1: s trip because we have kids and we have to, 464 00:26:01,480 --> 00:26:04,120 Speaker 1: you know, share household responsibilities. 465 00:26:04,560 --> 00:26:07,920 Speaker 2: So the dominant task, you could do it a few 466 00:26:07,920 --> 00:26:08,600 Speaker 2: different ways. 467 00:26:09,119 --> 00:26:10,040 Speaker 3: What's his first name? 468 00:26:10,600 --> 00:26:11,000 Speaker 1: Michael? 469 00:26:12,240 --> 00:26:12,680 Speaker 3: Michael. 470 00:26:13,600 --> 00:26:15,600 Speaker 1: He's gonna kill me for this because this is what 471 00:26:15,640 --> 00:26:17,560 Speaker 1: I do. And now I'm going to have like I'm 472 00:26:17,560 --> 00:26:22,960 Speaker 1: going to weaponize my my, my girl's trip asking abilities here. 473 00:26:23,200 --> 00:26:27,800 Speaker 2: This is great, right, So you'd be like, Michael, Okay, 474 00:26:28,880 --> 00:26:31,960 Speaker 2: you are my husband for a very good reason. 475 00:26:32,480 --> 00:26:35,280 Speaker 3: You are a strong, reliable man and a. 476 00:26:35,240 --> 00:26:39,359 Speaker 2: Good father, and you have made me feel safe in 477 00:26:39,400 --> 00:26:40,240 Speaker 2: this relationship. 478 00:26:42,119 --> 00:26:43,680 Speaker 3: You could do even more. 479 00:26:45,840 --> 00:26:50,040 Speaker 2: You could create a phenomenal experience. 480 00:26:51,280 --> 00:26:55,200 Speaker 3: By fully taking on the kids for an entire five 481 00:26:55,400 --> 00:26:59,920 Speaker 3: days and not only not only. 482 00:26:59,720 --> 00:27:01,960 Speaker 2: Say yes to my request and going yeah, yeah, yeah, 483 00:27:02,640 --> 00:27:06,200 Speaker 2: but designing the experience of a lifetime for our family. 484 00:27:07,960 --> 00:27:12,000 Speaker 2: You could show me what it would be like for 485 00:27:12,119 --> 00:27:17,040 Speaker 2: you to fully take over being the only parent. You 486 00:27:17,080 --> 00:27:20,360 Speaker 2: would provide me with an opportunity to witness what you're 487 00:27:20,359 --> 00:27:25,800 Speaker 2: capable of, and in my absence, you would be able 488 00:27:25,840 --> 00:27:28,480 Speaker 2: to explore all of the different facets of our kids' 489 00:27:28,520 --> 00:27:30,719 Speaker 2: needs in a way that you can't if I'm around. 490 00:27:34,240 --> 00:27:34,960 Speaker 3: I want you. 491 00:27:36,720 --> 00:27:41,879 Speaker 2: To take on this project of exploring fatherhood in an 492 00:27:42,040 --> 00:27:45,440 Speaker 2: enlightened way while I go away on a girl's trip, 493 00:27:45,920 --> 00:27:48,640 Speaker 2: and when I come back, I want you to report 494 00:27:48,680 --> 00:27:50,920 Speaker 2: your findings. I want you to tell me what you learned. 495 00:27:50,960 --> 00:27:52,639 Speaker 2: I want you to tell me what you saw about 496 00:27:52,640 --> 00:27:55,000 Speaker 2: all the things I do that I wasn't doing. But also, 497 00:27:55,080 --> 00:27:58,000 Speaker 2: let's take it further. Let's take our parenting to the 498 00:27:58,000 --> 00:28:01,399 Speaker 2: next level. Show me things about our children that I 499 00:28:01,400 --> 00:28:03,240 Speaker 2: don't even know and that I'm not even aware of. 500 00:28:03,680 --> 00:28:06,680 Speaker 2: Use that time to come up with options for our future, 501 00:28:07,720 --> 00:28:13,160 Speaker 2: for everything that lies ahead. I trust you with this 502 00:28:13,280 --> 00:28:18,160 Speaker 2: noble quest, you can get more specific and given instructions. 503 00:28:18,600 --> 00:28:24,119 Speaker 1: He will not stand a chance saying no to my parents' 504 00:28:24,160 --> 00:28:26,760 Speaker 1: cult trip. He will not stand a chance. 505 00:28:27,160 --> 00:28:34,640 Speaker 2: So the submissive one, the surrendered one, would be like Michael, 506 00:28:36,640 --> 00:28:42,520 Speaker 2: I've arrived at a moment where I can no longer 507 00:28:43,080 --> 00:28:48,800 Speaker 2: fully deeply enjoy you, my life. 508 00:28:48,000 --> 00:28:50,920 Speaker 3: This family. I just need a reset. 509 00:28:51,360 --> 00:28:54,360 Speaker 2: I need to just have a few days where I 510 00:28:54,480 --> 00:28:57,040 Speaker 2: remember who I am without all this. 511 00:28:59,080 --> 00:29:01,320 Speaker 3: I'm so deeply dreaming of. 512 00:29:01,280 --> 00:29:05,040 Speaker 2: A girl's trip for five days, but not just a 513 00:29:05,080 --> 00:29:09,600 Speaker 2: regular girl's trip, one where I get to remember who 514 00:29:09,640 --> 00:29:14,520 Speaker 2: I am without this, no checking in, no questions, just 515 00:29:14,760 --> 00:29:21,400 Speaker 2: a full contact with simone as a as a woman, 516 00:29:22,480 --> 00:29:26,080 Speaker 2: a reset to release the tension, to find what's exciting 517 00:29:26,120 --> 00:29:30,960 Speaker 2: and sexy and embodied about my life. I'm not asking 518 00:29:31,120 --> 00:29:36,600 Speaker 2: for a time where I need to, you know, be 519 00:29:36,680 --> 00:29:39,600 Speaker 2: flirtatious with other people, or anything like that. I just 520 00:29:39,760 --> 00:29:45,920 Speaker 2: need to feel like refueled with my own essence. And 521 00:29:45,960 --> 00:29:50,080 Speaker 2: I'm imagining that getting to do this in a way 522 00:29:50,080 --> 00:29:53,480 Speaker 2: that I haven't really done before, like fully deeply, would 523 00:29:53,480 --> 00:29:59,240 Speaker 2: have me come back reset and feeling so alive and 524 00:29:59,320 --> 00:30:05,760 Speaker 2: so turned on and so ready with new perspective on 525 00:30:05,840 --> 00:30:09,800 Speaker 2: how to make our lives so sexy, so fun, so playful. 526 00:30:10,440 --> 00:30:13,080 Speaker 2: These five days would cleanse me of what I'm starting 527 00:30:13,080 --> 00:30:16,000 Speaker 2: to feel of as drudgery and wait and obligation. 528 00:30:16,800 --> 00:30:19,760 Speaker 3: And I cannot imagine any greater. 529 00:30:19,600 --> 00:30:23,200 Speaker 2: Gift you could give to me than this opportunity to 530 00:30:23,240 --> 00:30:25,640 Speaker 2: find my way back to myself and then come back 531 00:30:25,640 --> 00:30:26,680 Speaker 2: to you fully. 532 00:30:27,280 --> 00:30:31,360 Speaker 1: Gosha, spe have gifts. That is the greatest gift you 533 00:30:31,360 --> 00:30:34,680 Speaker 1: could have given me. My goodness, It's so it's so 534 00:30:34,840 --> 00:30:38,560 Speaker 1: amazing to me how much I connect with both versions 535 00:30:38,600 --> 00:30:43,480 Speaker 1: of the ask I can. As you were the dom, 536 00:30:44,000 --> 00:30:47,280 Speaker 1: I was like really enraptured and wanting to lean in, 537 00:30:48,120 --> 00:30:52,440 Speaker 1: and then as as you transitioned into the more submissive request, 538 00:30:52,600 --> 00:30:55,840 Speaker 1: I was like, oh wow, this actually, this feels so 539 00:30:56,000 --> 00:31:00,960 Speaker 1: true and deeply resonant with me, And yeah, I actually, 540 00:31:01,200 --> 00:31:03,640 Speaker 1: even though I don't necessarily see myself as a submissive 541 00:31:03,680 --> 00:31:06,320 Speaker 1: person in my day to day life, I could do this, 542 00:31:06,400 --> 00:31:10,800 Speaker 1: I could tap into this style of communication that was 543 00:31:10,880 --> 00:31:13,680 Speaker 1: so that was so good, Thank you, Kasha. 544 00:31:13,680 --> 00:31:14,360 Speaker 3: Oh my goodness. 545 00:31:14,400 --> 00:31:17,520 Speaker 2: So the thing that happens is we're afraid to go 546 00:31:17,640 --> 00:31:22,040 Speaker 2: too far in either direction. So what we end up 547 00:31:22,080 --> 00:31:24,400 Speaker 2: doing is like a smushy thing in the middle, being 548 00:31:24,480 --> 00:31:26,800 Speaker 2: like you could do this thing, and then I could 549 00:31:26,880 --> 00:31:27,280 Speaker 2: have this. 550 00:31:27,240 --> 00:31:30,560 Speaker 3: Thing, and there's no feeling. 551 00:31:32,240 --> 00:31:35,040 Speaker 2: The person listening doesn't feel guided or instructed, and they're 552 00:31:35,040 --> 00:31:39,000 Speaker 2: also not welcome into our dream desire. It's about moving 553 00:31:39,000 --> 00:31:41,040 Speaker 2: from the eighty percent or the ninety percent or the 554 00:31:41,120 --> 00:31:43,440 Speaker 2: ninety nine percent of the desire to the one hundred percent. 555 00:31:43,960 --> 00:31:46,920 Speaker 2: And with a request like that, it's in your body, 556 00:31:47,040 --> 00:31:48,960 Speaker 2: it's in your heart, it's in your mind. 557 00:31:49,080 --> 00:31:51,840 Speaker 3: You know what's in it for you, you know how 558 00:31:51,840 --> 00:31:53,960 Speaker 3: you want them to, you have the whole range of it. 559 00:31:54,560 --> 00:31:57,120 Speaker 2: And then what we have is an ask that's not 560 00:31:57,200 --> 00:31:59,720 Speaker 2: based on a goal. It's not based on a fix 561 00:31:59,800 --> 00:32:03,040 Speaker 2: it right, because you like, can you finally just like 562 00:32:03,200 --> 00:32:04,880 Speaker 2: let me do the thing that I want to do 563 00:32:04,960 --> 00:32:06,040 Speaker 2: and just take care of the kids. 564 00:32:06,040 --> 00:32:07,960 Speaker 3: Do you know how much I do? That's what we 565 00:32:08,000 --> 00:32:08,800 Speaker 3: get in this culture. 566 00:32:08,840 --> 00:32:11,640 Speaker 1: So we get like, which is not good for anyone's relationship. 567 00:32:12,000 --> 00:32:14,320 Speaker 3: It's not only not good for anyone's relationship. 568 00:32:14,360 --> 00:32:17,480 Speaker 2: When women end up defaulting to this because of conditioning, 569 00:32:17,720 --> 00:32:19,840 Speaker 2: they don't like themselves. Do you know how many people 570 00:32:19,880 --> 00:32:21,640 Speaker 2: break up with somebody else, not because they don't like 571 00:32:21,680 --> 00:32:23,240 Speaker 2: the other person, but they don't like who they end 572 00:32:23,320 --> 00:32:25,400 Speaker 2: up showing up as in the presence of this person. 573 00:32:25,880 --> 00:32:28,400 Speaker 2: It's like, and again, this is the thing that's so 574 00:32:28,840 --> 00:32:33,719 Speaker 2: tragic about it is none of this is our fault. 575 00:32:34,040 --> 00:32:37,480 Speaker 2: This is all we're all tripping over the conditioning that. Now, 576 00:32:37,880 --> 00:32:41,000 Speaker 2: let's be real, like times have changed and they're changing, 577 00:32:41,080 --> 00:32:43,880 Speaker 2: and we're they were one way for a really long time. 578 00:32:44,280 --> 00:32:48,160 Speaker 2: We're the first generation of women on the planet who 579 00:32:48,200 --> 00:32:52,800 Speaker 2: get to own money, like most of the women who yeah, 580 00:32:52,840 --> 00:32:55,440 Speaker 2: most of the women who own money in the whole 581 00:32:55,520 --> 00:32:58,440 Speaker 2: history of money are alive on this planet right now. 582 00:32:58,960 --> 00:33:01,400 Speaker 3: And we forget we have like this isn't like. 583 00:33:01,560 --> 00:33:04,680 Speaker 2: Shockingly new, it's all new, all of the playbooks, all 584 00:33:04,720 --> 00:33:07,680 Speaker 2: of the ancestral conditioning. I mean, we have lines of 585 00:33:07,720 --> 00:33:11,360 Speaker 2: ancestresses probably standing behind us watching us get. 586 00:33:11,200 --> 00:33:13,080 Speaker 3: To do something they never got to do. 587 00:33:13,280 --> 00:33:16,600 Speaker 2: Going go girl, get it, go, all the way, and 588 00:33:16,760 --> 00:33:20,920 Speaker 2: like I believe that this moment in time, there's no 589 00:33:21,000 --> 00:33:28,040 Speaker 2: time to waste. This self actualization goal is not superficial. 590 00:33:28,160 --> 00:33:31,760 Speaker 2: When women tap into this level of desire and influence, 591 00:33:32,360 --> 00:33:35,080 Speaker 2: we do have a world changing possibility. 592 00:33:35,760 --> 00:33:39,320 Speaker 1: Kasha, how is the time gone? I could talk to 593 00:33:39,320 --> 00:33:45,280 Speaker 1: you forever. You've just provided so much incredible material that 594 00:33:45,320 --> 00:33:47,480 Speaker 1: has truly helped me, and I know that it's going 595 00:33:47,560 --> 00:33:52,280 Speaker 1: to be so beneficial for our community. So, Kasha, thank 596 00:33:52,320 --> 00:33:54,400 Speaker 1: you so much for coming on the bright Side. 597 00:33:54,560 --> 00:33:56,760 Speaker 3: Oh my gosh, thank you so much for having me. 598 00:33:57,040 --> 00:33:59,240 Speaker 3: I'm so honored. I've had such a good time with you. 599 00:34:02,040 --> 00:34:05,920 Speaker 1: Kasha Orboniac is a speaker, author, and community builder. You 600 00:34:05,960 --> 00:34:09,000 Speaker 1: can read her book Unbound, A Woman's Guide to Power 601 00:34:09,400 --> 00:34:13,120 Speaker 1: anywhere books are sold. The Brightside is a production of Hello, 602 00:34:13,200 --> 00:34:16,640 Speaker 1: Sunshine and iHeart Podcasts and is executive produced by Reese 603 00:34:16,640 --> 00:34:21,280 Speaker 1: Witherspoon and me Simone Boyce. Production is by Acast Creative Studios. 604 00:34:21,640 --> 00:34:25,120 Speaker 1: Our producers are Taylor Williamson, Adrian Bain, and Darby Masters. 605 00:34:25,400 --> 00:34:29,280 Speaker 1: Our production assistant is Joya putnoy A. Cast Executive producers 606 00:34:29,320 --> 00:34:32,879 Speaker 1: are Jenny Kaplan and Emily Rudder, Maureen Polo and Reese 607 00:34:32,920 --> 00:34:36,960 Speaker 1: Witherspoon are the executive producers for Hello Sunshine. Ali Perry 608 00:34:37,040 --> 00:34:40,560 Speaker 1: and Christina Everett are the executive producers for iHeart Podcasts. 609 00:34:41,360 --> 00:34:44,320 Speaker 1: Our theme song is by Anna Stump and Hamilton Lakehauser. 610 00:34:45,120 --> 00:34:47,399 Speaker 1: If you like what you heard on today's episode, don't 611 00:34:47,400 --> 00:34:49,880 Speaker 1: forget to rate it and share it wherever you listen 612 00:34:49,880 --> 00:34:50,759 Speaker 1: to your podcasts.