WEBVTT - S.G. Goodman 0:00:08.200 --> 0:00:14.160 Pushkin. Just a quick note here. You can listen to 0:00:14.200 --> 0:00:17.160 all of the music mentioned in this episode on our playlist, 0:00:17.200 --> 0:00:19.239 which you can find a link to in the show 0:00:19.320 --> 0:00:23.040 notes for licensing reasons, each time a song is referenced 0:00:23.040 --> 0:00:28.240 in this episode, you'll hear this sound effect. All right 0:00:28.840 --> 0:00:32.720 enjoyed the episode. On her debut album, Old Time Feeling, 0:00:33.159 --> 0:00:37.120 SG Goodman turns traditional Southern storytelling on its head with 0:00:37.280 --> 0:00:40.880 songs that present a deeper, more complex look at life 0:00:40.880 --> 0:00:46.280 below the Mason Dixon Line. That's if it Ain't Me Babe, 0:00:46.520 --> 0:00:49.760 from s G. Goodman's debut album, which was co produced 0:00:49.760 --> 0:00:54.400 by My Morning Jackets Jim James. Sgs songs are filled 0:00:54.520 --> 0:00:58.480 with purpose. As a queer person who lives with mental illness, 0:00:58.480 --> 0:01:01.240 she often sings about the social and political change she 0:01:01.360 --> 0:01:05.240 wants to see happen in the South. In this conversation 0:01:05.280 --> 0:01:08.200 with Bruce Headlam, SG performs a few songs off her 0:01:08.200 --> 0:01:11.320 debut album from her home in Murray, Kentucky. She also 0:01:11.360 --> 0:01:13.760 talks about writing a breakup song that just happens to 0:01:13.800 --> 0:01:18.280 resonate with the ongoing social justice demonstrations happening all over 0:01:18.400 --> 0:01:25.319 the country today. This is broken record liner notes for 0:01:25.360 --> 0:01:33.840 the Digital Age. I'm justin Richmond. Here's Bruce Hedlam's conversation 0:01:33.920 --> 0:01:36.640 with S. G. Goodman. She starts things off with the 0:01:36.680 --> 0:01:43.080 performance of the song space and Time. That was beautiful. 0:01:43.160 --> 0:01:46.280 Thank you so much, Thank you. That's the first song 0:01:46.319 --> 0:01:49.080 on your new album, Yes, which is Old Time Feeling. 0:01:50.080 --> 0:01:52.080 Can you tell me just a little bit about the 0:01:52.120 --> 0:01:56.160 writing of that song. Oh yeah, So this song, you 0:01:56.200 --> 0:01:59.520 know a lot of people think of it is general 0:02:00.640 --> 0:02:04.200 love song, and and I don't mind that at all. 0:02:04.320 --> 0:02:08.480 You know, artists really aren't in control of how people 0:02:08.560 --> 0:02:12.440 interpret their work. But that really wasn't I guess you 0:02:12.480 --> 0:02:15.080 could say it was a love love song in a 0:02:15.120 --> 0:02:19.560 particular way, but that was at a written in a 0:02:19.600 --> 0:02:22.600 particular time in my life where I was struggling with 0:02:22.720 --> 0:02:26.120 mental health. And you know, I'm not shy about talking 0:02:26.160 --> 0:02:29.920 about my struggle with suicide. And you know I have 0:02:30.040 --> 0:02:35.880 a mental condition called obsessive compulsive disorder, which intensifies a 0:02:35.880 --> 0:02:40.120 lot of those things when they begin to happen. And 0:02:40.240 --> 0:02:42.720 so that was at a time in my life when 0:02:42.760 --> 0:02:46.960 I really was in a way writing a good bye letter. 0:02:47.240 --> 0:02:50.560 But you know, here I am singing it today, so 0:02:50.720 --> 0:02:55.040 I guess you know, it had a different purpose. Hmm. 0:02:55.560 --> 0:02:57.480 What was going on at that point in your life. 0:02:58.320 --> 0:03:02.880 Were there situations that exacerbated your condition or was it 0:03:02.919 --> 0:03:07.480 just a result of the things you deal with every day. Well, 0:03:08.320 --> 0:03:11.240 you know, a mixture of both of those. I would say, 0:03:12.600 --> 0:03:17.320 you know, I feel like there's a lot of statistics 0:03:17.360 --> 0:03:21.760 against me with obsessive compulsive disorder, but also as a 0:03:21.840 --> 0:03:25.760 queer person from the South. And you know, in the 0:03:25.840 --> 0:03:29.520 same way that artists can't control how their work is interpreted, 0:03:30.720 --> 0:03:35.119 people can't control how other people take certain news about 0:03:35.200 --> 0:03:39.800 their loved ones or friends or community members. So I 0:03:39.840 --> 0:03:42.880 would say at that point in my life, I had 0:03:42.920 --> 0:03:48.200 been out for about six years, but certain people close 0:03:48.240 --> 0:03:53.680 to me were, you know, not able to really give 0:03:53.880 --> 0:03:58.000 the kind of love I felt I needed. So that 0:03:58.200 --> 0:04:01.280 I feel like, even though I've found a lot of 0:04:01.320 --> 0:04:05.240 peace and healing in those things, is still ways on 0:04:05.280 --> 0:04:10.200 a person. And unfortunately, that was just a time where 0:04:10.240 --> 0:04:15.160 that those particular situations were really intense for me and 0:04:16.040 --> 0:04:20.000 you know, struggling with a sense of abandonment and things 0:04:20.040 --> 0:04:22.880 like that, which I think is, you know, my story's 0:04:22.960 --> 0:04:28.599 not like super unique. A lot of people experience that, 0:04:28.800 --> 0:04:32.600 and I've just decided not to be quiet about it. 0:04:32.880 --> 0:04:35.039 So when you play that song now the way you 0:04:35.120 --> 0:04:37.320 just did, what's that like for you? Does it take 0:04:37.360 --> 0:04:40.320 you back to that time or is it does it 0:04:40.400 --> 0:04:44.240 help you put that time in the distance. I would 0:04:44.279 --> 0:04:48.560 say that it's a mixed bag, you know. I feel 0:04:48.560 --> 0:04:51.599 like when you're performing, you have a lot of things 0:04:51.640 --> 0:04:55.120 you're trying to control in that moment, one remembering your lyrics, 0:04:55.480 --> 0:05:00.880 remembering how to play an instrument. But sometimes, yeah, I 0:05:00.960 --> 0:05:02.880 do think back to the moment when I wrote that, 0:05:02.960 --> 0:05:05.960 which is really special to me. And you know, no 0:05:06.000 --> 0:05:10.039 matter who in your life, isn't able to really show 0:05:10.120 --> 0:05:12.880 up for you the way you need it. I've had 0:05:13.000 --> 0:05:17.440 a lot of amazing chosen family and friends for a 0:05:17.440 --> 0:05:21.440 long time now, and I wrote this song or finished 0:05:21.440 --> 0:05:25.320 it up with my band in the room, and you know, 0:05:25.480 --> 0:05:29.200 they really helped pull me through that moment. So all 0:05:29.240 --> 0:05:33.279 in all, it also coincides with some really good and 0:05:33.400 --> 0:05:37.800 positive memories. So I'm not really afraid to think about 0:05:37.880 --> 0:05:40.920 the origins of that song because there was so many 0:05:40.960 --> 0:05:45.920 wonderful things happening and wonderful people showing up for me too. 0:05:46.240 --> 0:05:50.040 Did that song help change anybody's mind? I don't know. 0:05:52.839 --> 0:05:56.720 You know, I feel like maybe to the people that 0:05:56.839 --> 0:06:01.960 it really was directed to, I'm not sure if they 0:06:02.279 --> 0:06:06.400 were or are in a moment of recognition to where 0:06:06.720 --> 0:06:12.680 they could feel any sort of responsibility for that. So 0:06:13.520 --> 0:06:15.440 we'll come back to that. I want to change subjects 0:06:15.480 --> 0:06:18.239 for a minute though, Just something for the guitar nerds 0:06:18.279 --> 0:06:21.560 out there, okay, because your guitar sounds so great. What 0:06:21.680 --> 0:06:25.640 are you playing and how are you getting that great sound? Well? 0:06:25.680 --> 0:06:33.040 This is a nineteen sixty nine guild Starfire four and 0:06:33.320 --> 0:06:36.120 I love these guitars. And I've had this guitar for 0:06:36.200 --> 0:06:41.000 about eleven years now, and I you know, I've been 0:06:41.000 --> 0:06:43.760 told by many people I shouldn't play it out because 0:06:43.800 --> 0:06:48.840 of its age and kind of being fragile. But I 0:06:48.880 --> 0:06:51.320 feel like it still has a lot of playing to 0:06:51.400 --> 0:06:54.400 do left in it, you know, and I feel like 0:06:54.680 --> 0:06:58.640 it shouldn't retire. It should go out, you know, in 0:06:58.800 --> 0:07:02.640 somebody's hands. That's my thoughts on that. It's got some 0:07:02.720 --> 0:07:05.839 things to say still exactly. You know, I don't know 0:07:05.880 --> 0:07:08.320 if I do it justice, but it sure feels good 0:07:08.360 --> 0:07:11.320 to me. Now, there are a lot of sounds on 0:07:11.360 --> 0:07:15.600 your album. It's a great, great sounding album, and we 0:07:15.640 --> 0:07:18.960 should talk more about that too, But this particular song 0:07:19.120 --> 0:07:25.000 just has that fifties dreamy quality to it, which I 0:07:25.040 --> 0:07:28.680 find really kind of captivating and a little scary that sound. 0:07:29.120 --> 0:07:31.840 Were you thinking to give a particular album or song 0:07:31.920 --> 0:07:34.840 in mind for this particular one to get that sound? 0:07:35.560 --> 0:07:40.400 You know? Really, my band and I pull from so much. 0:07:41.240 --> 0:07:46.400 But and it just came out that way structurally when 0:07:46.400 --> 0:07:49.480 my drummer came in and you know, just played that 0:07:49.520 --> 0:07:52.240 beat in the way I'm playing the guitar, the song 0:07:52.560 --> 0:07:55.960 kind of did what it wanted to. But when I 0:07:56.000 --> 0:07:59.400 was thinking of soundscapes for this song and what I wanted, 0:07:59.480 --> 0:08:03.160 and honestly the guitar solo in there, which really amplifies 0:08:03.200 --> 0:08:07.440 that feel of an old time song. My bandmate Matt 0:08:07.520 --> 0:08:11.160 Rowan the first time we ever played it as a band. 0:08:11.200 --> 0:08:14.080 The day I finished this song. I still have it 0:08:14.200 --> 0:08:18.120 recorded on my phone. It's the exact same solo. It's 0:08:18.200 --> 0:08:22.400 never changed. It's what he came up with immediately, and 0:08:23.120 --> 0:08:25.880 I kind of fought hard to keep that in the 0:08:25.920 --> 0:08:30.120 song because that really does you know, you never know 0:08:30.160 --> 0:08:33.560 as a songwriter when you're finished. And a good friend 0:08:33.559 --> 0:08:35.680 of mine, Aaron Ray, told me one day we'll have 0:08:35.800 --> 0:08:39.640 you said everything you need to say. And I felt 0:08:39.679 --> 0:08:42.160 like after I wrote really the only true verse in 0:08:42.240 --> 0:08:45.200 that song, when Matt came in with that guitar lick, 0:08:46.040 --> 0:08:50.920 I felt like he said everything I couldn't say. Hmm. Now, 0:08:51.559 --> 0:08:54.319 most people when they think of Kentucky, I think really 0:08:54.360 --> 0:08:58.400 think of eastern Kentucky. They think about glacia and coal mining. 0:08:58.440 --> 0:09:02.160 Tell me a little bit about western Kentucky, Like, what 0:09:02.200 --> 0:09:05.240 are you seeing when you look out the window? Well, 0:09:05.280 --> 0:09:10.960 in Murray, in particular, I'm next to land between the lakes, 0:09:11.000 --> 0:09:16.000 which was a huge man made lake system, so there's 0:09:16.080 --> 0:09:20.200 protected forest out there. It's a beautiful landscape. But where 0:09:20.200 --> 0:09:24.400 I'm originally from, I was born in western Tennessee, raised 0:09:24.440 --> 0:09:28.040 in western Kentucky in a small town called Hickman, which 0:09:28.120 --> 0:09:33.080 was on the Mississippi River. So that landscape is more 0:09:33.120 --> 0:09:38.520 reminiscent of the Delta. So a lot of people don't think, 0:09:38.600 --> 0:09:41.920 but my dad is technically a Delta farmer. You know. 0:09:42.080 --> 0:09:46.680 So I was raised right on the Mississippi rivers, So 0:09:46.800 --> 0:09:49.760 what kind of what kind of farmer was he? He 0:09:49.880 --> 0:09:55.640 still is a farmer. He grows mono crops, so wheat, soybeans, corn. 0:09:56.440 --> 0:09:59.000 You know, we've got a few horses, I guess because 0:09:59.040 --> 0:10:03.560 we're Kentucky, but we don't do livestock or anything like that. Right. 0:10:04.240 --> 0:10:06.240 Was there a lot of music in your house growing up? 0:10:06.880 --> 0:10:10.360 You know my dad, because I mean I grew up 0:10:10.360 --> 0:10:14.040 in a town of less than three thousand people, and 0:10:14.800 --> 0:10:18.520 my dad was a music lover. And when you farm, 0:10:18.640 --> 0:10:20.760 you spend a lot of time in a vehicle or 0:10:20.800 --> 0:10:24.679 a tractor, so we always were listening to music. And 0:10:25.480 --> 0:10:28.880 you know, I have an early memory of my dad 0:10:28.920 --> 0:10:31.600 and his brothers throwing a party at his shop and 0:10:31.720 --> 0:10:34.720 having a bluegrass band come in for the fish fry. 0:10:36.280 --> 0:10:39.240 But as far as like people who were seeking to 0:10:39.320 --> 0:10:42.080 be involved in music, I mean, my mother put me 0:10:42.160 --> 0:10:45.120 and my brothers and piano lessons at an early age. 0:10:45.480 --> 0:10:49.800 I quit. I couldn't handle performing. But you know, singing 0:10:49.880 --> 0:10:55.040 and music is a pastime. It's not necessarily something everybody 0:10:55.080 --> 0:10:58.280 takes seriously. It's more of a pastime. So I guess 0:10:58.400 --> 0:11:01.960 sort of we're a musical family. But did you when 0:11:02.000 --> 0:11:06.880 did you pick up the guitar? Probably around age fifteen. 0:11:07.679 --> 0:11:12.600 I started writing lyrics around age like that. I knew 0:11:12.640 --> 0:11:17.199 I was writing lyrics around age fourteen, and then I 0:11:17.240 --> 0:11:20.360 decided I wanted to play the guitar. I think I 0:11:20.400 --> 0:11:22.960 really wanted to play an instrument where I could go 0:11:23.040 --> 0:11:26.120 and be by myself and not be around anyone when 0:11:26.120 --> 0:11:28.400 I was trying to learn it. The piano was in 0:11:28.440 --> 0:11:31.800 the middle of the house, you know, so I could 0:11:31.840 --> 0:11:35.120 sneak off and lock a door somewhere and be by 0:11:35.160 --> 0:11:37.800 myself trying to figure it out. And you said you 0:11:37.840 --> 0:11:40.640 didn't like performing on the piano. Did you always like 0:11:40.840 --> 0:11:45.680 performing on guitar. No, I've never really liked performing until 0:11:45.920 --> 0:11:50.280 probably the past five years. It was just I love 0:11:50.760 --> 0:11:55.600 I love songwriting, and performing is something if you're trying 0:11:55.600 --> 0:11:58.520 to get your songs out you kind of have to do. 0:11:58.760 --> 0:12:02.840 But I was more are forced into performing through church 0:12:02.880 --> 0:12:06.880 growing up, you know, kind of with that threat of 0:12:07.080 --> 0:12:09.760 if you have a gift from God, if you don't 0:12:09.840 --> 0:12:12.520 use it, you'll lose it, you know. I was raising 0:12:12.559 --> 0:12:17.839 a real conservative house, and so performing was something I 0:12:17.920 --> 0:12:22.160 grew to love. Do you like it now? I do, 0:12:22.720 --> 0:12:27.400 And I really have found that I really miss it. 0:12:27.920 --> 0:12:31.360 I guess I suffered from imposter syndrome when it comes 0:12:31.400 --> 0:12:37.000 to performances. But now I feel like these last several 0:12:37.040 --> 0:12:40.040 months have made me realize that, well, maybe I am 0:12:40.080 --> 0:12:44.200 a performer. We'll be right back with Bruce Headlam's conversation 0:12:44.240 --> 0:12:52.360 with SG. After the break, We're back with SG. Goodman. 0:12:53.280 --> 0:12:55.760 I'm sure when you thought about putting out your first album, 0:12:56.280 --> 0:12:58.199 you weren't thinking, you know, I'll put it out in 0:12:58.240 --> 0:13:01.960 the middle of a pandemic and there's protests all across 0:13:02.000 --> 0:13:06.240 the country and a very contentious election. You probably weren't 0:13:06.240 --> 0:13:09.360 thinking that way. Yeah, you know, I wasn't born a 0:13:09.520 --> 0:13:15.800 fortune teller, so but what can you do. We did 0:13:15.840 --> 0:13:19.280 the best we could with the circumstances. And I don't 0:13:19.679 --> 0:13:24.040 have any problem, you know, putting out music while there's 0:13:24.559 --> 0:13:28.480 protests or when some you know, people need to hear 0:13:29.160 --> 0:13:32.520 people from the South who are of the progressive persuasion. 0:13:32.679 --> 0:13:35.719 So I feel like my album has a place in 0:13:35.720 --> 0:13:38.319 this moment. We should talk a little more about the moment. 0:13:38.360 --> 0:13:41.720 But would you like to do another song for us? Sure? 0:13:41.880 --> 0:13:46.120 This one's called Old Time Feeling, the title track from 0:13:46.120 --> 0:13:52.000 my album Thank You, Thank You. The record version of 0:13:52.040 --> 0:13:57.040 that is very, very aggressive, a lot of guitar. It's 0:13:57.080 --> 0:13:59.760 probably the most aggressive song on the album. It's terrific, 0:14:00.360 --> 0:14:03.839 But I love that version. Thank You You know, not 0:14:03.920 --> 0:14:06.240 being able to pack my band in my house in 0:14:06.280 --> 0:14:08.800 the middle of a pandemic is a little bit of 0:14:08.840 --> 0:14:13.959 a neutering feeling, I'm sure. But you've got some very 0:14:14.000 --> 0:14:19.120 interesting lyrics in there. You mentioned people who want change 0:14:19.360 --> 0:14:22.120 then do something strange. They go where I can't read 0:14:22.160 --> 0:14:24.640 the precise line, but they go where everybody feels the same. 0:14:25.040 --> 0:14:28.840 So who is that aimed at that line? You know? 0:14:29.680 --> 0:14:36.080 I feel like there is a pressure put on people 0:14:36.200 --> 0:14:40.360 in marginalized groups and in the South sometimes that can 0:14:40.400 --> 0:14:47.680 be progressives, LGBT community, things like that, to leave the 0:14:47.720 --> 0:14:51.560 South to find more like minded people. And there's a 0:14:51.600 --> 0:14:54.440 part of me that totally understands that. You know, a 0:14:54.440 --> 0:14:56.920 lot of people have to leave for either their physical 0:14:56.960 --> 0:15:02.880 health or mental health. But what happens is there is 0:15:02.960 --> 0:15:07.600 little to no representation for those groups or those ideals. 0:15:07.640 --> 0:15:11.080 And I really believe change comes from people seeing you 0:15:11.640 --> 0:15:14.920 live it out to your neighbors. And so that was 0:15:15.040 --> 0:15:19.880 more of a called of arms for people who, you know, 0:15:20.040 --> 0:15:23.000 point a finger back at the South, maybe their home 0:15:23.880 --> 0:15:26.440 where they came from, and say, well, that place is 0:15:26.480 --> 0:15:30.440 never going to change. Well it's a lost cause or whatever. Well, 0:15:30.640 --> 0:15:33.760 believe me, it always will be if everybody who wants 0:15:33.760 --> 0:15:39.040 to see it change leaves. So that's just problematic for 0:15:39.200 --> 0:15:42.000 me as a person, as a progressive from the South 0:15:42.120 --> 0:15:46.000 who knows that they're like minded people like me here, 0:15:46.080 --> 0:15:50.680 but we sometimes either aren't the story that the coast 0:15:50.720 --> 0:15:53.960 are telling about where we're from. And I feel like 0:15:54.040 --> 0:15:56.880 a lot of that is because you know, we have 0:15:57.000 --> 0:16:00.480 responsibility to provide that narrative for people people, and a 0:16:00.480 --> 0:16:03.760 lot of folks are not. What is that story that 0:16:03.800 --> 0:16:09.320 we're missing? Well, I would say, you know that there 0:16:09.360 --> 0:16:13.080 are a lot of progressive initiatives in the South. There 0:16:13.120 --> 0:16:19.400 are a lot of people who are not subject or 0:16:19.400 --> 0:16:22.080 where they are subject, but they're not victim to the 0:16:22.160 --> 0:16:26.920 conditioning that people from rural places and the South have 0:16:27.120 --> 0:16:31.800 experienced through politicians and through these narratives from people on 0:16:31.840 --> 0:16:36.960 the outside. And you know, but because those initiatives do 0:16:37.040 --> 0:16:42.280 not play into those stereotypes, we don't, you know, get 0:16:42.320 --> 0:16:47.520 the attention that we deserve because in my opinion, when 0:16:47.560 --> 0:16:51.040 the South changes, and I'm going to say when what's 0:16:51.040 --> 0:16:54.040 going to happen is when the coast and when other 0:16:54.120 --> 0:16:57.760 places in the country don't have a place to just 0:16:57.920 --> 0:17:01.840 always point a finger at for their aggressive, our regressive 0:17:01.920 --> 0:17:05.719 policies and different things like that. They're gonna have to 0:17:05.760 --> 0:17:10.159 start taking responsibility for what's happening in their own backyard. 0:17:10.240 --> 0:17:13.960 And you know, the South and rural communities a lot 0:17:14.000 --> 0:17:19.000 of times are a good way to avoid responsibility for 0:17:19.080 --> 0:17:24.760 other people. You're also speaking right now as a white Southerner, 0:17:25.200 --> 0:17:30.760 and that's tricky territory right now, because Confederate monuments are 0:17:30.800 --> 0:17:35.919 being torn down and not you particularly, but but you know, 0:17:35.960 --> 0:17:38.639 white Southerners are you know, accused of hanging on to 0:17:38.720 --> 0:17:43.399 these face of old prejudices. Is that fair? Do you think? Well? 0:17:44.880 --> 0:17:48.560 I would say in a large part, yeah, we're gonna 0:17:48.600 --> 0:17:53.159 have to take, you know, responsibility for that. But once again, 0:17:53.520 --> 0:17:56.920 you should know, even in my little town of Murray, 0:17:57.200 --> 0:18:01.080 we gather around our Confederate monument, are pushing for change 0:18:01.119 --> 0:18:04.480 every Saturday morning leading marches. You know, there's a lot 0:18:04.520 --> 0:18:08.879 of folks here who are calling out Grandpa at the 0:18:08.920 --> 0:18:11.560 table for saying a racial slur. You know, there's a 0:18:11.600 --> 0:18:16.639 lot of complexity I feel in responsibility on white people 0:18:17.040 --> 0:18:21.600 who know what's being said behind closed doors in their 0:18:21.640 --> 0:18:25.920 homes and when they're hanging out with other white friends. 0:18:26.440 --> 0:18:32.880 You know, white supremacy and racism is a white person's problem. 0:18:34.080 --> 0:18:37.560 We're we're keeping it alive, and it's our our job to, 0:18:38.760 --> 0:18:43.960 you know, work on eradicating that, because you know, we're 0:18:44.320 --> 0:18:51.000 the ones imposing the consequences. So yes, I do feel like, unfortunately, 0:18:51.320 --> 0:18:55.359 I think there's there's responsibility there that we can't deny 0:18:55.600 --> 0:18:59.200 in any way, and I wouldn't ever try to. That's 0:18:59.240 --> 0:19:03.000 a great answer, thank you very much. I joked earlier 0:19:03.040 --> 0:19:05.639 about you releasing this album in the middle of a pandemic, 0:19:06.200 --> 0:19:09.600 but there are a lot of songs here that would 0:19:09.600 --> 0:19:13.720 seem to kind of address the current moment. The song 0:19:13.800 --> 0:19:17.400 about you know, burning a city down in your name, 0:19:17.800 --> 0:19:21.760 of course, suddenly has well, you tell me, what were 0:19:21.760 --> 0:19:25.879 you thinking about when you wrote that song? Nothing about 0:19:25.960 --> 0:19:30.960 where you're going with it, But you know, I was 0:19:31.080 --> 0:19:36.679 experiencing a heartbreak, and I think you know, as a 0:19:36.720 --> 0:19:39.680 person who's been in counseling for many years and you 0:19:39.760 --> 0:19:45.880 understand how when you're experiencing trauma, sometimes other traumas come 0:19:46.080 --> 0:19:50.560 up in that experience. And so I have some biblical analogies. 0:19:50.760 --> 0:19:54.359 I have a reference to a true story about my 0:19:54.440 --> 0:20:00.080 father who was severely burned while burning off of a 0:20:00.119 --> 0:20:06.240 wheat field one time, and so you know, I get 0:20:06.320 --> 0:20:10.240 where you're going at right now, I think, But I'm 0:20:10.520 --> 0:20:13.240 you know, like I said earlier, I'm not a fortune teller, 0:20:13.320 --> 0:20:16.800 so there was no way of me knowing that that 0:20:16.840 --> 0:20:20.920 could be applicable to any current events. Now I realize 0:20:21.119 --> 0:20:23.040 you haven't been able to play in public, but it's 0:20:23.080 --> 0:20:25.360 it's hard not to think of the song that way. 0:20:26.280 --> 0:20:28.080 It's hard not to think of George Floyd to be 0:20:28.119 --> 0:20:31.280 on a Taylor and you know many of the protests, 0:20:31.320 --> 0:20:33.679 and of course I should say, I'm not saying that 0:20:33.760 --> 0:20:38.200 protesters are the ones burning down things, far from it. 0:20:38.480 --> 0:20:42.320 But does this album it feels political to me? And 0:20:42.359 --> 0:20:44.360 I know it wasn't written that way, and a lot 0:20:44.400 --> 0:20:47.479 of great love songs and a lot of great songs 0:20:47.520 --> 0:20:51.160 can feel political even though they were very personal. Has 0:20:51.200 --> 0:20:53.399 the meaning of any of this changed for you? Is 0:20:53.440 --> 0:20:57.120 it a different feeling playing these songs now? Do they 0:20:57.160 --> 0:21:02.600 feel bigger or more social? I mean, in my opinion, 0:21:03.119 --> 0:21:06.320 you know, like old time feeling. I think I wrote 0:21:06.359 --> 0:21:12.040 that in twenty seventeen what you're seeing right now, and 0:21:12.160 --> 0:21:17.160 everybody should understand I didn't have to have current events 0:21:17.200 --> 0:21:21.679 to give me inspiration for what's happening right now. This 0:21:21.720 --> 0:21:25.480 has been happening for a long time. You know, my 0:21:25.640 --> 0:21:28.639 feelings about the South and the change that needs to happen, 0:21:29.440 --> 0:21:34.880 Uh didn't come two months ago. I've lived here all 0:21:34.920 --> 0:21:40.679 my life. You know, I'm just writing on my life experiences. 0:21:40.760 --> 0:21:44.960 So sure, I mean, you know, like I said, I 0:21:45.080 --> 0:21:48.960 don't I don't waste any time thinking about how people 0:21:49.000 --> 0:21:51.600 will interpret a thing. I think that's interesting. You're the 0:21:51.600 --> 0:21:55.520 first person who's ever brought my attention to the possible 0:21:55.600 --> 0:21:59.480 relevance of those words. So yeah, these are these are 0:21:59.560 --> 0:22:02.880 rough times, but I feel like there's a lot more, 0:22:03.840 --> 0:22:07.240 you know, important voices and messages being said right now, 0:22:07.280 --> 0:22:09.160 and I'm not going to try to co opt them 0:22:09.200 --> 0:22:12.920 and make my music fit into that narrative. You mentioned 0:22:12.920 --> 0:22:17.280 there's some biblical references in some of your songs, including 0:22:17.280 --> 0:22:21.199 Burned Down the City. Are there other books that have 0:22:21.280 --> 0:22:25.159 influenced you with your lyrics, because your lyrics are very literary. 0:22:25.200 --> 0:22:28.439 I don't mean that they're precious, but that they have 0:22:28.520 --> 0:22:35.440 a certain kind of almost novel like feeling to them. Well, so, 0:22:35.600 --> 0:22:40.320 one of my writing mentors is a man by the 0:22:40.400 --> 0:22:44.160 name of del Ray Phillips. He was a Pullet Surprise 0:22:44.320 --> 0:22:48.119 nominee for his collection of short stories My People as Waltz, 0:22:48.200 --> 0:22:52.960 which anybody listening I highly recommend when I took classes 0:22:53.000 --> 0:22:56.120 from him. But we've been friends, you know, really close, 0:22:56.520 --> 0:23:00.240 ever since I graduated college. And he came to me 0:23:00.280 --> 0:23:02.879 one day and he said, all right, I need you 0:23:02.920 --> 0:23:06.800 to do something for me. Never read Flannery O'Connor again. 0:23:07.400 --> 0:23:11.560 You have figured it out, you understand it, but you 0:23:11.640 --> 0:23:15.560 need to stop, just quit. You know, there were certain heroes, 0:23:15.880 --> 0:23:19.119 literary heroes that you know. He started encouraged me to 0:23:19.160 --> 0:23:23.399 read more contemporary writers like Jennifer Egan, who wrote an 0:23:23.440 --> 0:23:26.840 amazing short story called Safari and find that in some 0:23:26.960 --> 0:23:29.440 of the New Yorker archives and things like that. But 0:23:30.320 --> 0:23:32.959 I don't know, I read a lot of different things, 0:23:33.359 --> 0:23:37.800 and I love stories. And when you're a Southerner, stories 0:23:37.880 --> 0:23:41.120 passed the time. And I grew up with amazing storytellers, 0:23:41.359 --> 0:23:45.240 you know, oral stories. So I'd have to give a 0:23:45.280 --> 0:23:49.000 lot of credit to people that I grew up around. 0:23:49.480 --> 0:23:51.880 Was your father one of those? Was he a good storyteller? 0:23:52.720 --> 0:23:57.320 He is a good storyteller. There's a lot of great storytellers. 0:23:57.400 --> 0:24:00.760 I grew up across the street from a lady named 0:24:01.800 --> 0:24:06.679 Miss Betty McMullen, but she was Miss Betty Thomas, and 0:24:07.400 --> 0:24:12.040 our family was connected because my grandfather used his GI 0:24:12.200 --> 0:24:15.760 bill to buy out her father, who he worked for 0:24:15.880 --> 0:24:21.280 as a farm hand. He bought mister Thomas's farm equipment, 0:24:21.280 --> 0:24:25.320 and that's how my family got into farming. They were sharecroppers, 0:24:26.040 --> 0:24:30.080 and Miss Betty's husband, mister Sonny, moved her in across 0:24:30.160 --> 0:24:32.399 from my family when I was a child because he 0:24:32.480 --> 0:24:35.120 was dying of cancer. And one of my first jobs 0:24:35.240 --> 0:24:38.399 was to take care of Miss Betty. And she's the 0:24:38.440 --> 0:24:41.639 one who I can think for turning me onto a 0:24:41.640 --> 0:24:45.800 lot of my old country heroes like Lefty, Frizelle Hanks, 0:24:45.880 --> 0:24:51.400 Senior Patsy Klein because her family during the Depression had 0:24:51.760 --> 0:24:55.640 had money compared to everyone else, so she actually got 0:24:55.680 --> 0:24:58.080 to go to some of these concerts and would tell 0:24:58.119 --> 0:25:01.320 me these stories and and you know, she had a 0:25:01.320 --> 0:25:03.160 lot of them. Would show me a picture of her 0:25:03.200 --> 0:25:05.679 and her sister with the big frilly boots and things. 0:25:05.720 --> 0:25:08.840 But I cleaned her house growing up, and I kept 0:25:08.880 --> 0:25:12.480 her company, so I had a lot of these weird 0:25:12.560 --> 0:25:16.399 stories about her going and seeing Jerry Lee Lewis taking 0:25:16.440 --> 0:25:18.840 a train to Union City, which is now just a 0:25:18.920 --> 0:25:25.320 fifteen minute drive my closest Walmart, and there was a 0:25:25.320 --> 0:25:29.600 lot of rich storytellers around me growing up. We're going 0:25:29.640 --> 0:25:31.639 to take a quick break, but we'll be back with 0:25:31.880 --> 0:25:39.320 su Goodman. We're back with SG Goodman and the performance 0:25:39.359 --> 0:25:45.399 of her song Redbird Morning. That's beautiful, just to thank you. 0:25:45.560 --> 0:25:48.879 Heartbreaking song and I'm not even sure why it's so 0:25:48.960 --> 0:25:51.560 heartbreaking because it's sort of up tempo. But then you're 0:25:51.560 --> 0:25:54.359 talking at some point about whether you'll be loved and 0:25:55.080 --> 0:25:59.720 what did that song come out of? Well, I got dumped, 0:26:00.840 --> 0:26:04.840 my live in left me, and you know, I think 0:26:04.880 --> 0:26:10.200 when you are heartbroken and maybe some maybe a relationship ends, 0:26:10.280 --> 0:26:13.040 you become a detective and you try to figure out 0:26:13.080 --> 0:26:16.720 at which moments things kind of went south. And I 0:26:16.920 --> 0:26:20.960 left out of Kentucky on right before my birthday that year, 0:26:21.040 --> 0:26:24.920 and I went and delivered some goods to Standing Rock 0:26:25.040 --> 0:26:29.840 with some friends of mine, and I remember that not 0:26:30.000 --> 0:26:33.000 going over too well in that relationship. You know, they 0:26:33.040 --> 0:26:36.880 wanted to celebrate my birthday and you know all that stuff, 0:26:36.920 --> 0:26:40.639 and I typically do what I want to do in life, 0:26:40.680 --> 0:26:42.800 so I cut out in the middle of the night 0:26:42.840 --> 0:26:49.560 and drove a day to Cannonball, And that, of course 0:26:49.720 --> 0:26:52.840 wasn't the reason why our relationship is off. It's just 0:26:52.920 --> 0:26:56.040 what I was thinking about in that moment. And also 0:26:56.720 --> 0:27:01.399 I was putting out a record right after we had 0:27:01.440 --> 0:27:05.879 broken up, and her grandmother died on the day of 0:27:05.920 --> 0:27:09.840 my release, and we were both very close to our 0:27:10.359 --> 0:27:12.920 nana's is what we both call it, which is why 0:27:12.920 --> 0:27:18.240