Speaker 1: I miss a green, for example, I'm already upset.
Speaker 2: When I find my ball in the bunker, I'm really upset.
Speaker 1: And when I find my ball in a brid egg
Speaker 1: Frida egg, the dreaded Frida egg Frida egg, Frida egg
Speaker 1: egg Frida egg bride egg.
Speaker 2: Lie, I'm about ready to run off the golf course game.
Speaker 2: Welcome back to the Friday Golf Podcast. I am your host,
Speaker 2: Andy Johnson, and today I am excited to be joined
Speaker 2: by Trevor Immulman to break down the twenty twenty six
Speaker 2: PGA Championship at aronom ink Uh. It was a thrilling
Speaker 2: weekend of golf, tons of players in the mix, eventually
Speaker 2: with Aaron Raye getting it done. So we will break
Speaker 2: down what happened. Trevor, of course was on the call
Speaker 2: with Jim Nantz and the entire CBS crew from ARONOMNC.
Speaker 2: So apologies for the slightly delayed release. You know, but
Speaker 2: obviously coordinating post major with travel is it can be
Speaker 2: sometimes complicated. Before we get to Trevor, let's talk about
Speaker 2: our friends over at Friday Golf Club, which is us.
Speaker 2: Friday Golf Club is our membership. It is something that
Speaker 2: we have been spending a lot of hours lately discussing
Speaker 2: and working on things to take it into the next
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Speaker 2: Golf Club on the Friday dot Com. All right, let's
Speaker 2: get to Trevor Immelman and talk about the twenty twenty
Speaker 2: six PGA Championship. All right, Trevor, we're back. You had
Speaker 2: a busy week. You were at Ironomank. You know, a
Speaker 2: I would say from a broadcast standpoint, it had to
Speaker 2: be one of the more challenging weekends that you've ever encountered.
Speaker 1: Look, Andy, I mean they're all challenging for different reasons,
Speaker 1: but yeah, I mean this time, when you've got that
Speaker 1: many players with a realistic shot to win, uh, it
Speaker 1: is it's an all out sprint man. And you know,
Speaker 1: because we cover so much of the golf at these
Speaker 1: major championship and you're on for you know, let's call
Speaker 1: it seven hours, you've got to have you know, we've
Speaker 1: got two trucks, one that handles the front nine one
Speaker 1: that handles the back nine, and they're you know, working
Speaker 1: together constantly trying to figure out which are the right
Speaker 1: shots that need to be shown. They do an incredible job.
Speaker 1: I don't I don't know how they do it, to
Speaker 1: be honest. A lot of talented people back there that
Speaker 1: are working their way through it. So yeah, I mean
Speaker 1: it's a lot of fun because it's exciting. I mean,
Speaker 1: anything could happen. It was. It was. It was a
Speaker 1: pretty interesting week from that standpoint with with so many
Speaker 1: players with a chance and so many different stories like
Speaker 1: you know, John Rahm trying to win his third major
Speaker 1: and get the third leg and McElroy trying to win
Speaker 1: back to back and Scheffler trying to win back to
Speaker 1: back PGAs, and you've got a bunch of guys that
Speaker 1: had never won majors before and guys that had never
Speaker 1: even come close to contending in mages before. So there
Speaker 1: were there were so many different moving parts to it.
Speaker 1: But it was fun. It was fun, and we saw
Speaker 1: some some unbelievable golf.
Speaker 2: Man. Yeah, it was. Uh, it was a crazy weekend
Speaker 2: and you know, I think like there will be a
Speaker 2: lot of things remembered from aronom Ink but the kind
Speaker 2: of feeling of you know, generally you could narrow it
Speaker 2: down to a couple guys, and it's like Saturday and Sunday.
Speaker 2: It's like, literally anybody could do this, and anybody that
Speaker 2: gets hot and plays well, you know, could get this done.
Speaker 2: From your perspective, this is I wasn't plan to go here,
Speaker 2: but I've always wondered, I, you know, from a broadcast perspective.
Speaker 2: To me, it's always felt like, you know, if you
Speaker 2: have like six to eight people in the mix, it's
Speaker 2: an ideal situation when you you know, obviously you could
Speaker 2: do stuff with like duels. You know, the blowout gets
Speaker 2: hard because it's like, okay, you have to talk about
Speaker 2: one person all over. And then this week was at
Speaker 2: the other end of the spectrum where there's so many
Speaker 2: people in the mix it's hard to follow all of
Speaker 2: them because you only have a certain amount of time
Speaker 2: and so many shots are happening all at the same time. Yeah,
Speaker 2: and anybody that's complaining about like maybe these were live
Speaker 2: is like, well, like all these things are coinciding at
Speaker 2: the same time on different fields of play, where different
Speaker 2: cameras are and you know, so from your perspective, what
Speaker 2: is like, you know, if you if you had a
Speaker 2: dream scenario, what does that look like from a broadcast
Speaker 2: perspective of like number of players in the mix?
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think I think you've got the number right there.
Speaker 1: I mean it's somewhere between five and ten. You know,
Speaker 1: that's going to allow you ample opportunity to get into
Speaker 1: strategy and technique and you know, things they're doing, well,
Speaker 1: maybe things that they're fighting or struggling with, and then
Speaker 1: also give you know, a guy like Jim Nance the
Speaker 1: opportunity to start weaving in the storytelling aspect of it,
Speaker 1: of getting into you know, the history of the player
Speaker 1: and what he's done to get to this point, the
Speaker 1: meaning of what this victory could be. But you know,
Speaker 1: it's like when we came on the air on Sunday
Speaker 1: in the on camera, I actually I actually said, you know,
Speaker 1: this is this is like an eighteen hole shootout thirty
Speaker 1: players to win a major championship. And that's really what
Speaker 1: it felt like. I mean, we had to keep our
Speaker 1: head on a swivel and follow all sorts of things.
Speaker 1: I was actually texting with JT yesterday and we were
Speaker 1: kind of laughing at the fact that, you know, when
Speaker 1: he hold out that brilliant pass save at eighteen at
Speaker 1: three five pm. You know, for a little while it
Speaker 1: looked like this guy could win or get into a
Speaker 1: play or finishing, you know, as the leader were teeing off.
Speaker 1: And so that kind of just shows like the spectrum
Speaker 1: of golf that we had to cover throughout the afternoon,
Speaker 1: and I found that kind of funny that, you know,
Speaker 1: that might have been the winning putt. We covered a
Speaker 1: three or three oh five, and we went off air
Speaker 1: at about seven fifteen pm, So it was it was
Speaker 1: a crazy day, but an exciting day.
Speaker 2: I you know, what are the aspects of that that
Speaker 2: is particularly fascinating. It's like what he holds that out
Speaker 2: and the play you'd seen in the morning, You're like,
Speaker 2: there's no way five is the number.
Speaker 1: Yeah. I always felt it was gonna be sort of
Speaker 1: hoping for a playoff, but probably be a shot or
Speaker 1: two shy. I mean I said that at the time,
Speaker 1: but it hung on in there for a long time.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and then and then all of a sudden, it's
Speaker 2: like the middle of the back dined and you're like,
Speaker 2: oh my god, five feels like good because of just
Speaker 2: the nature of that golf course where the back line
Speaker 2: was such an ass kicker all week long. It's just like, okay,
Speaker 2: hang on for dear life, and you know, and then
Speaker 2: like it turned the way it turned out, if somebody
Speaker 2: just played, you know, really the a ten hole stretch
Speaker 2: of their life to close it out. If you were
Speaker 2: a player in the in the lead up to that
Speaker 2: final round in the mix, would you have approached Sunday
Speaker 2: differently than say, I, you know, a normal competit like
Speaker 2: in contention round where there's you know, let's just call
Speaker 2: it six to eight players that could win.
Speaker 1: No, I don't think so. And it's partially because of
Speaker 1: the golf course, you know, Like you said, it was
Speaker 1: such a fun week from from an analysis standpoint for
Speaker 1: us as golf fans to try and wrap our minds
Speaker 1: around this golf course and understand where the soft spots
Speaker 1: were to be able to attack. I mean, it was
Speaker 1: very clearly the first let's just call it eight of
Speaker 1: the first nine holes you take the eighth hole out,
Speaker 1: which was just a menace the whole week. I mean,
Speaker 1: what a difficult part three. Even when they were moving
Speaker 1: the tea's way up and it was playing one seventy
Speaker 1: one eighty, it was still just kicking these guys butts.
Speaker 1: That green complex and the angle that it sits at
Speaker 1: with the wind blowing playing dramatically downhill, was just causing
Speaker 1: havoc all week long. But eight of the first nine
Speaker 1: were kind of gettable, and then you had to hang
Speaker 1: on from there. But I don't think that the strategy
Speaker 1: would have changed because of that. I mean, this course
Speaker 1: could jump up and grab you the way that it
Speaker 1: was presented to the players. Everyone was talking about how
Speaker 1: wide the fairways were, but they played so much now
Speaker 1: arrower with the camber on the fairways. The camber always
Speaker 1: seemed to work opposite to the dog leg or many times,
Speaker 1: shall I say, for the most part. You know, you
Speaker 1: think about the second hole. These guys are trying to
Speaker 1: take it over the bunker. You've got two options, which
Speaker 1: I love. You can lay short into a flat area
Speaker 1: and then have a longer second, or you can do
Speaker 1: what these players love to do nowadays, which is trying
Speaker 1: and vombit over the bunkers. But then you're landing on
Speaker 1: a side slope. Ninety five percent of them are kicking
Speaker 1: into the rough. There was no first cut. The ball
Speaker 1: would run straight from the fairway into the long stuff.
Speaker 1: I mean, you could be six inches off the fairway
Speaker 1: and just be in total hack out rough. And so
Speaker 1: I don't think because of the golf ware the golf
Speaker 1: course was presented, I don't think you could get too
Speaker 1: far ahead of yourself. It wasn't like you could all
Speaker 1: get too aggressive. You had to just play each shot
Speaker 1: on its own merit. You know, let's call that Major
Speaker 1: Championship style strategy. And if I was one of those
Speaker 1: players on Sunday, I would have just been hoping that
Speaker 1: I was going to get my putter hot. I mean,
Speaker 1: at the end of the day, that was probably what
Speaker 1: it was going to boil down to, who could get
Speaker 1: their putter hot and find a way to run the tables.
Speaker 1: And you start to look at Aaron Ray's last ten holes.
Speaker 1: I mean when he bogied the six and the eight,
Speaker 1: he was three back. Yeah, and then you know he
Speaker 1: goes six under his last ten, starting with the eagle
Speaker 1: at nine. And you know, I really hope that people
Speaker 1: in the coming weeks and months and years appreciate the
Speaker 1: greatness of that stretch of golf. You know, if Tiger
Speaker 1: had done that, if Rory had done that, if Rahm
Speaker 1: or Scheffler you know, any of the guys that we
Speaker 1: love to root for, if any of them had done that,
Speaker 1: we would have been like fainting from excitement and talking
Speaker 1: about this is why these guys are so good, This
Speaker 1: is why they're the best players in the world, this
Speaker 1: is why they're multiple major champions. Like, these guys just
Speaker 1: have another gear. They can get it done. And I
Speaker 1: rarely do hope that Aaron Rai gets the same respect
Speaker 1: because that stretch of golf and the shots that he
Speaker 1: hit rarely from the ninth hole all the way through
Speaker 1: finishing was such high quality, and many of them had
Speaker 1: such a high degree of difficulty. You know, you zoom
Speaker 1: in on like the bunker shot on thirteen and the
Speaker 1: way he played fifteen and even sixteen, and he's one
Speaker 1: of the only players to hold the ball in the
Speaker 1: fairway being able to hit the tight drawer to kind
Speaker 1: of curve it against the slope and get it to
Speaker 1: hang in there. I mean, these shots were just like
Speaker 1: seriously elite level stuff. And that's what I really hope
Speaker 1: is is remembered about this PGA Championship.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, and if you look at the board
Speaker 2: and it's impossible to take somebody out of it and say, like,
Speaker 2: you know, thirty guys could could have conceivably gone out
Speaker 2: and won the tournament, maybe more given where JT came from, Right,
Speaker 2: there was one person who went out and did it
Speaker 2: and emphatically did it. It was not close. It wasn't like,
Speaker 2: you know, if this didn't happen, or you know, had
Speaker 2: he not hold the eagle putt on on on nine,
Speaker 2: like obviously all these things don't happen in a vacuum.
Speaker 2: I think, like golf is such a momentum sport. But
Speaker 2: you know, with Ray, like he absolutely just won out.
Speaker 2: He went out and took it. And I think your
Speaker 2: point about the other other players, you know, if Scotty
Speaker 2: had done this, you know, if Scotty had just played
Speaker 2: the back nine of Aaron Rye and Aaron Rye played
Speaker 2: immediate pedestrian back nine and Scotty wins the tournament, we
Speaker 2: would be just going insane about it, and especially the
Speaker 2: manner in which he did. He did it with the
Speaker 2: shot making as you as you just alluded to, was
Speaker 2: there a point in that round where where you were
Speaker 2: like you kind of were like, I know, this guy's
Speaker 2: getting this done well.
Speaker 1: I thought the bunker shot on thirteen was gosh, that
Speaker 1: was so gutsy. You know, we saw other guys in
Speaker 1: that bunker, and I'll zoom in on Cam Smith. I'll
Speaker 1: use him as the example because you know, when you
Speaker 1: think of Cam Smith, what do you think about You
Speaker 1: think about a guy with maybe the best short game
Speaker 1: in the world when you take you know, pitching and
Speaker 1: bunker shots and putting into account. He had almost the
Speaker 1: identical shot, and there were two ways to play it.
Speaker 1: You could try and go for the chunk and run
Speaker 1: and get it to run up that big slope onto
Speaker 1: the plateau where the hole was located, or you could
Speaker 1: fly it up there. You had eight steps to work with.
Speaker 1: Cam went for the chunk and run just because it's
Speaker 1: such a risky, difficult shot. I don't blame him for
Speaker 1: one second. I'm just saying that Aaron Rye decided to
Speaker 1: go the other way, and he decided from you know,
Speaker 1: he called it forty yards on a slight upsloping lie
Speaker 1: to go ahead and just take a full rip at
Speaker 1: it and fly it up there with a ton of
Speaker 1: spin to stop it. I mean, that is just that's
Speaker 1: meeting the moment, is the way that I would describe it.
Speaker 1: But the whole back nine, you know, thirteen, we're getting
Speaker 1: to a point now to where like the choke factor
Speaker 1: starts to come in. But you think about the up
Speaker 1: and down at ten, the wedge into eleven, the up
Speaker 1: and down on twelve where he chips instead of putting,
Speaker 1: which completely caught me off. God, then he gets it
Speaker 1: up and down on thirteen, and he just starts, you know,
Speaker 1: taking the tournament by the scruff of the neck. Really.
Speaker 1: But once he got it up and down on thirteen,
Speaker 1: I was like, gosh, this is this looks pretty good
Speaker 1: here right.
Speaker 2: Now, I think, you know, I I've never really enjoyed
Speaker 2: watching Aaron Rye play golf, and I think a lot
Speaker 2: of it was a center around the pace of which
Speaker 2: he plays. I don't have much patience for slow players,
Speaker 2: and he's a little deliberate out there. But when he
Speaker 2: hit the shot on thirteen, I like what I sat
Speaker 2: up in my chair and it was like that moment
Speaker 2: of like what they say is like I was not
Speaker 2: aware of, you know, of like the game that you
Speaker 2: possessed here and like really the stones, the idea and
Speaker 2: that because we want people all day to your point,
Speaker 2: using Campsmith as the example, all day, hit the chunk
Speaker 2: and run out of that bucker. It's just the safe shot.
Speaker 2: It's the okay like if I hit it, really, if
Speaker 2: I execute it perfectly, it's going to run up there
Speaker 2: and I may have a good look. But if I don't,
Speaker 2: I'll get out of here with a four. And if
Speaker 2: you go for the go for the broke, the big shot,
Speaker 2: the high spinner, all of a sudden, you're bringing everything in.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, because the way that the way that green
Speaker 1: is designed, you know, it's like a it's like a crown.
Speaker 1: I mean we saw that. We saw that so often
Speaker 1: at Ernomink, with these whole locations like on top of
Speaker 1: ridges and on top of like little knolls almost to
Speaker 1: a certain extent, and that one, you know, if he
Speaker 1: had hit that bunker shot two and a half steps father,
Speaker 1: it's it's running over the back and these probably making five.
Speaker 1: I mean, we saw we saw McElroy coming down there.
Speaker 1: We saw a couple other guys really struggle on this
Speaker 1: driveable part four. So yeah, that was that was That
Speaker 1: was like I said earlier, that was him meeting a
Speaker 1: massive moment. And I bet you you know as we
Speaker 1: start hearing from him and he starts processing how the
Speaker 1: day and that second nine unfolded. I bet you he
Speaker 1: talks about that shot because that I'm sure would have
Speaker 1: given him a ton of confidence and his belief level
Speaker 1: probably jumped up a few notches after getting that up
Speaker 1: and down.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I you know, and then I think, like some
Speaker 2: stuff that was just interesting, Like you know, you think
Speaker 2: about the longest part four. I think it was in
Speaker 2: major championship history fifteen. Yeah, he's hitting. He's not a
Speaker 2: long hitter, and he hitting three were there, and I
Speaker 2: think there is you know, I think he understood the
Speaker 2: value of fair away down the stretch, you know, and
Speaker 2: you know, taking the longer approach. The thing that I
Speaker 2: find amazing is I mean that that approach shot he
Speaker 2: hid in there, which was really a long approach shot
Speaker 2: that was somewhere in there one trickle from being the
Speaker 2: iconic shot that we remember forever.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, yeah, I.
Speaker 2: Mean that thing was so close. But you know, I
Speaker 2: think like there there was an interesting dynamic about about
Speaker 2: the whole golf course. And and you know, the fairways
Speaker 2: were wide, as you said, but they played really short.
Speaker 2: And and the idea the way that the game is
Speaker 2: now where people play predominantly one shot shape was going
Speaker 2: to create like a number of T shots that were
Speaker 2: really hairy and really difficult. One of the hardest T
Speaker 2: shots on the court is the fifteenth because of the
Speaker 2: huge canber in the fairway. He took a lot of
Speaker 2: that risk out by playing to the wide part of
Speaker 2: the faaraway where the three wood would go. Yeah, I
Speaker 2: think like where people weren't solving necessarily, And I'm sure
Speaker 2: data would maybe refute some of this, but I mean,
Speaker 2: if you played from the fairway at irondom Ink, the
Speaker 2: greens were pretty easy to hit, you know, the greens,
Speaker 2: and then from there you're you're gonna two putt. And
Speaker 2: I think this is what we saw play out was
Speaker 2: lots of pars and bogies, but the idea of if
Speaker 2: you could go out and hit a lot of fairways,
Speaker 2: you were going to be able to keep the momentum
Speaker 2: going through your round. And where we saw people kind
Speaker 2: of lose it was like, oh, they hit it in
Speaker 2: the rough, they had to hack it out short. It
Speaker 2: became a really hard up and down and and that
Speaker 2: where you lose the momentum. But you know, just kind
Speaker 2: of coming down the stretch. He hit gutsy shots, but
Speaker 2: also extraordinarily smart shots into the right spots.
Speaker 1: Yeah, look, you saw a guy that had done his preparation.
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, anybody that has spent time with
Speaker 1: him before, with Aaron before, knows that about him. I
Speaker 1: think we started to get soundbites and clips from players,
Speaker 1: you know, explaining their appreciation for his work ethic. You know,
Speaker 1: I mentioned on the broadcast, I remember watching him this
Speaker 1: year at the Masters on the Sunday before. I actually
Speaker 1: went out and played with a friend of mine and
Speaker 1: we played through him on the twelfth hole, and he
Speaker 1: was standing around the twelfth green. For gosh, we saw
Speaker 1: him as we came over the hill at eleven. He
Speaker 1: was on the twelfth green and we finished playing eleven,
Speaker 1: and then we got to the twelfth tee and he
Speaker 1: was still around the green. He then waved us up,
Speaker 1: we hit our shots, we putted out. He was still
Speaker 1: standing on and around the twelfth green, just trying to
Speaker 1: unlock and figure out exactly how he was going to
Speaker 1: play to every whole location. And that's what he does.
Speaker 1: That's what he does every golf course, on every hole,
Speaker 1: trying to figure out how he's going to fit his
Speaker 1: game in there. And we noticed that on fifteen. You know,
Speaker 1: like you touched on. He's not the longest hit of
Speaker 1: any stretch, but you had these wonderful cross bunkers that
Speaker 1: pinched into the fairway right at three hundred, and then
Speaker 1: right at that point the fairway sloped severely to the left.
Speaker 1: So really they were challenging you to Okay, if you
Speaker 1: want a shorter club into this monster of a par four,
Speaker 1: go ahead, But it starts to get a little head,
Speaker 1: and you can be under the lip, you can be
Speaker 1: in thick ruff, you could have all sorts of issues.
Speaker 1: He just took all of that out, knowing that he
Speaker 1: was going to have a long iron inn, but also
Speaker 1: knowing that fifteen was the only green on the course
Speaker 1: that to me accepted shots rather than spelling shots. So
Speaker 1: it was like a little bit of a ball, and
Speaker 1: it had a wonderful gap up the front that you
Speaker 1: could run the ball in. So he knew that. Look,
Speaker 1: he's so accurate, it doesn't really matter what he's got in.
Speaker 1: He's got probably fifteen to twenty yards of gap that
Speaker 1: he can bounce something into that front hole location. But
Speaker 1: he was taking a big number out of play, and
Speaker 1: that to me shows a lot of self belief, soft
Speaker 1: confidence and understanding your game and understanding how he's going
Speaker 1: to take advantage of his skill set. I still have
Speaker 1: an impression on that hole and the golf course in general.
Speaker 1: And he got out of there with a pod, no problem,
Speaker 1: and kept putting one foot in front of the other.
Speaker 2: Uh.
Speaker 1: And then birdie sixteen and seventeen. So it's it's it's
Speaker 1: remarkable stuff. Man. Like I touched on earlier. I really
Speaker 1: do hope that as people zoom in on that week
Speaker 1: and that final day, they really appreciate the greatness of
Speaker 1: that round.
Speaker 2: The fifteenth that we're talking about. I you know, this
Speaker 2: is just an anecdote personally, you know what, I was
Speaker 2: playing my best golf of my life. If I ever
Speaker 2: felt uncomfortable on a t shot, like a tinge of uncomfort,
Speaker 2: I would just hit three iron because it's like, I know,
Speaker 2: I'm just gonna hit it likely down the middle with
Speaker 2: a three iron. This three iron I loved hitting. I
Speaker 2: don't know why I ever took it out of the bag,
Speaker 2: but you know, and it's like in my head, it's like, okay,
Speaker 2: if I'm hitting from the fairway, even if I'm two
Speaker 2: hundred and twenty yards two thirty, whatever it may be.
Speaker 2: In this case, you know, he hits three wood and
Speaker 2: he leaves himself two thirty. But if I'm playing a
Speaker 2: par three, like from a tee ground, I make a
Speaker 2: lot of pars on long par threes, and like likewise
Speaker 2: with these guys, they're so good, you know, I guess
Speaker 2: I like don't understand sometimes. And maybe this is where stats,
Speaker 2: because of week in, week out tour play get a
Speaker 2: little skewed versus when you go to a place like Aronomy,
Speaker 2: where there's really thick rough and the penalty for missing
Speaker 2: is way higher than it is on a normal tour week.
Speaker 2: But like the idea of of I really wonder if
Speaker 2: we looked at that hole and play more players had
Speaker 2: chosen that strategy. I think what was fascinating was like
Speaker 2: that was like a head scratching move at that moment
Speaker 2: in the tournament. It's like you guys were calling, It's like, oh,
Speaker 2: he's hitting three wood. He's gonna leave a really long approach.
Speaker 2: But it was a flat lie. It was wide way
Speaker 2: wider functionally, like people will look at it on a
Speaker 2: satellite and be like, well, it only pinches X number
Speaker 2: of yards. But when as you mentioned it. When you
Speaker 2: throw in the slope, it actually pinched like it was
Speaker 2: probably about the quarter a quarter of the width of
Speaker 2: the lay up the layback area. And these guys are
Speaker 2: so good. Hitting two hundred and thirty yard shot into
Speaker 2: a bowl is way way easier than a one hundred
Speaker 2: and seventy yard shot from really thick rough.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, look at that point of the tournament too,
Speaker 1: you know when you zoom in on uh maybe a
Speaker 1: rum or a macro Oil or even a cam Smith.
Speaker 1: When he got to fifteen, he was having a nice
Speaker 1: run and had a great shot to win the tournament.
Speaker 1: But you know, maybe those guys in the in that
Speaker 1: situation felt like they had to kind of push a
Speaker 1: little bit mm hm. And so then you know, it's
Speaker 1: like a risk assessment situation where you're like, gosh, if
Speaker 1: I take driver, I'm bringing the trouble in. But if
Speaker 1: I do pull it off, I'm gonna have a much
Speaker 1: shorter shot in and maybe I can get at that
Speaker 1: front hole location that was it was placed right over
Speaker 1: that huge downslope, And you know, to me, that's why,
Speaker 1: you know, at the end of the day, I enjoyed
Speaker 1: the golf course Throughout the week, because it was providing
Speaker 1: options for the players, and we saw a bunch of
Speaker 1: different ways to go ahead and and try and try
Speaker 1: and figure it out. It was, it was, It was fascinating.
Speaker 1: It was a fascinating week. I mean, those greens were
Speaker 1: just so nuanced and intricate, some of the best I've
Speaker 1: ever seen anywhere in the world. And what a what
Speaker 1: a delight. I mean, it's probably easier for me to
Speaker 1: sit here and say that with without having to have
Speaker 1: compete had to compete in the tournament, you know, because
Speaker 1: I was there from the Monday and was just observing
Speaker 1: how players like were scratching their heads and trying to
Speaker 1: figure out how they were going to go about navigating
Speaker 1: those green complexes. But for fans and for viewers and
Speaker 1: people on site, you know, it was it was just
Speaker 1: never over because even two and three footers were so
Speaker 1: challenging for these guys. It was a marvelous setup, I believe,
Speaker 1: And really, you know, you and I have this discussion
Speaker 1: regularly about technology and where that is and how all
Speaker 1: of that is playing out. This may be the only
Speaker 1: way to have a seventy one seventy two hundred yard
Speaker 1: venue for players of this skill level. Is to have
Speaker 1: situations like this where this now first cut the balls
Speaker 1: rolling straight into the thick stuff, and then the green
Speaker 1: complexes are pretty severe.
Speaker 2: For I would say for the last sixty years, speed
Speaker 2: on the greens has been more emphasized than slope. People
Speaker 2: are obsessed with can we get our greens running whatever
Speaker 2: number on the stimpmeter, and particularly in that part of
Speaker 2: the country, this is a big thing. And what ends
Speaker 2: up happening often is greens that are that might resemble
Speaker 2: some of ironom innks are softened to accommodate speed. And
Speaker 2: this week, if anybody takes anything from the golf architecture
Speaker 2: standpoint away, to me, this week was the perfect example
Speaker 2: of why slope is always harder than speed. If you
Speaker 2: think about the scariest putts, and I'd be curious from
Speaker 2: your perspective. To me, the scariest short puts are the
Speaker 2: ones where you are looking significantly outside the hole. Oh yeah,
Speaker 2: and you're thinking like, okay, I have to play it here,
Speaker 2: and if I play it here, I have to have
Speaker 2: this pace on it. And if I don't hit it
Speaker 2: hard enough, if I don't commit to it, it's going low.
Speaker 2: If I overhit, if I over commit to it, it's
Speaker 2: going to miss high. And that psychological warfare only happens
Speaker 2: if there's significant slope in the greens. And I think
Speaker 2: the trend in pro golf has been speed less slope.
Speaker 2: And what less slope does is that you rarely have
Speaker 2: those short putts where you're you're you're looking outside the hole.
Speaker 1: Sure, there's no doubt about it. I mean this something
Speaker 1: inherently uncomfortable about a put from whether it be you know,
Speaker 1: two feet to five feet, let's say, where in your
Speaker 1: mind you feel like you're supposed to make it, and
Speaker 1: you've got to start it outside the hole because you know,
Speaker 1: the thing that we see week in and week out,
Speaker 1: and that we experience when we go play with our
Speaker 1: friends is is doubt. You know, when doubt starts to
Speaker 1: creep into a golfer's mind, that's that's when chaos happens.
Speaker 1: And it's just it's so uncomfortable to have a putt
Speaker 1: that you believe you should make that you then have
Speaker 1: to start outside the hole, whether it be a ball
Speaker 1: or a cup and a half. And you know, we
Speaker 1: saw a bunch of that. You know, even you think
Speaker 1: back to John Rahm and he mentioned this after the
Speaker 1: tournament when when people were asking him about the week
Speaker 1: and if he felt like that, he kind of gave
Speaker 1: it away and he said that he was so happy
Speaker 1: with the way he played from tee to green, and
Speaker 1: you know, in the moment, it's tough. He's just walked
Speaker 1: off the eighteenth green to have like a real clear
Speaker 1: thought process on it, But he immediately went back to
Speaker 1: the two four foot is that he missed on the
Speaker 1: back nine on Saturday. That jumped out to him like, Okay,
Speaker 1: maybe that I could have done differently. Maybe I could
Speaker 1: have made those putts. But the degree of difficulty is
Speaker 1: so high when you've got to just make these pots
Speaker 1: all day long to hang in there, it's so stressful
Speaker 1: it wears on you and wears on your nerves. And
Speaker 1: so yeah, that played out in a big way this week,
Speaker 1: much the same way. I mean we see that at
Speaker 1: Augusta too. You know, with the slope that they have
Speaker 1: there and the as fast as what the greens are
Speaker 1: that you know, you're always thinking to yourself, like, what
Speaker 1: is the highest line that I can possibly take to
Speaker 1: make this putt, Because if it's got any speed, if
Speaker 1: it catches the edge, it's probably gonna rom out and
Speaker 1: go just as far by, and like you say, if
Speaker 1: you power it through the break, it's just gonna keep
Speaker 1: going and go four or five feet by again. So
Speaker 1: it's it's a tough thing for these players to have
Speaker 1: to deal with and it also shows how great they
Speaker 1: are because a majority of the time they pull it off.
Speaker 2: And I think, what you're you're alluded to and I
Speaker 2: this is something that as I, you know, get older,
Speaker 2: I think about more and more, especially when you're playing
Speaker 2: around that counts, is like how can you reduce your
Speaker 2: your stress because you know, especially last week, the rounds
Speaker 2: were really long. I can't remember who was talking about this,
Speaker 2: but they were like I felt like I held it
Speaker 2: together for four and a half hours of the round,
Speaker 2: but that last hour I just couldn't, couldn't do it
Speaker 2: and I let go and I was killing me. That
Speaker 2: can't just off the top of my head, remember this.
Speaker 2: But but like golf, in tournament golf, great tournament golf
Speaker 2: is when you keep the stress off you where you know,
Speaker 2: you get good looks and when you have lag putts,
Speaker 2: you you leave them dead and you can just go
Speaker 2: up and brush them in aronoc aronom Ink was maybe
Speaker 2: and I think this is where I think it resonated.
Speaker 2: I think, like people have a lot of opinions about
Speaker 2: ironomyk and what resonated with me it was this golf
Speaker 2: course that was shorter. I think being shorter allowed a
Speaker 2: lot of guys the chance to compete on a thick
Speaker 2: rough setup. Yeah, by being shorter, the consequence of being
Speaker 2: in the rough for shorter players wasn't as great as
Speaker 2: a longer course would be. But anyways, the thing about
Speaker 2: that resonates with me to Rana Mink was it it
Speaker 2: just looked like a very stressful place to play golf.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and look I totally agree with that. You have
Speaker 1: to throw the weather into that as well. You know.
Speaker 1: I remember I was with Adam Scott on Wednesday and
Speaker 1: his plan was to warm up at about midday and
Speaker 1: then go play the front nine. Gosh, and we got
Speaker 1: to the range and all of a sudden, this wind
Speaker 1: kicked up. I mean we're talking about, you know, twenty
Speaker 1: miles an hour, like a proper, proper wind, And it
Speaker 1: was like whoa, you know, all of a sudden, now
Speaker 1: you're going to hit puts and you're having to read
Speaker 1: the wind on these puts on greens that are extremely challenging.
Speaker 1: To begin with, the wind was blowing across the course
Speaker 1: and now you had these dog legs with the reverse camber,
Speaker 1: let's call it, and a cross wind to deal with
Speaker 1: as well, and that sort of wind, and particularly when
Speaker 1: it was out of the north northwest, and it brought
Speaker 1: cooler temperatures as well. You know, now the early starters
Speaker 1: were warming up and starting their rounds in you know,
Speaker 1: high forties to early fifty degree weather, so the ball's
Speaker 1: not traveling as far. The rough is a little more
Speaker 1: damp and so more juicy and harder to play out of.
Speaker 1: And you got this wind blowing, and so you add
Speaker 1: that in to the way the course was set up
Speaker 1: and presented to these players, and it really caused a
Speaker 1: lot of havoc. And you go back to how long
Speaker 1: the rounds were taking. You know, all of that is
Speaker 1: part of the pie. You know, you've you've got to
Speaker 1: dial all of that stuff in to understand why it
Speaker 1: was taking so long, because the course just got so challenging.
Speaker 1: You know, if I remember correctly, it's playing you know,
Speaker 1: let's call it two to two and a half shots
Speaker 1: over a part. The first couple of days, you've got
Speaker 1: one hundred and fifty six players. You know, you've got
Speaker 1: many shots that you need to back off because the
Speaker 1: wind either dies or gusts, and and you're standing over
Speaker 1: a five foot over a ton of break, and all
Speaker 1: of a sudden the wind gust comes, and so you
Speaker 1: bail out of that and start again. You know, all
Speaker 1: of those things add up at the end of the
Speaker 1: day to two rounds, taking longer.
Speaker 2: Greens that you can't you don't have the easy tapp
Speaker 2: end I think are like the biggest contributor to slower rounds,
Speaker 2: where like it was just so hard to leave your
Speaker 2: putt somewhere where you're not marking. Yeah, I mean as.
Speaker 1: Soon as you market, you're you're adding another thirty seconds
Speaker 1: to a minute to the group for that whole there's
Speaker 1: no doubt about it.
Speaker 2: I think one of the things, and I think the
Speaker 2: online you know, you're you're lucky that you're you're calling golf,
Speaker 2: especially not every week, but this week. You're lucky you're
Speaker 2: calling golf and not paying attention to online discourse. There's
Speaker 2: a lot of there's a lot of anngs this week
Speaker 2: about the course and a lot of people I think,
Speaker 2: and I think this might have I think PJ and
Speaker 2: Joseph have have kind of made some good points of shotguns.
Speaker 2: Start about tying this to gambling, where when people are surprised,
Speaker 2: they're upset because maybe their their money went the wrong places.
Speaker 2: But anyways, I think a lot of people were upset
Speaker 2: with with the discourse about the course leading up to
Speaker 2: the event versus you know what played out on the course,
Speaker 2: And I would I would ask you. I think I've
Speaker 2: found this to be true in my relatively meager playing
Speaker 2: career years ago, but there were always certain courses where
Speaker 2: when you played them in practice rounds you felt one way,
Speaker 2: and then when the lights on, especially this week with
Speaker 2: the weather included in that, but when the tournament came
Speaker 2: all of a sudden, like I always think about one
Speaker 2: course at Chicago where there's like native grass, and when
Speaker 2: you play a casual round you don't see it, you
Speaker 2: like it doesn't even you don't see it, and then
Speaker 2: when you play a tournament round the next day, you're like,
Speaker 2: oh man, all of a sudden, feeling claustrophobic here. Yeah,
Speaker 2: And I think there are courses and I think ironomic,
Speaker 2: this is the the premise of Ironomic was that I
Speaker 2: feel like people just overlooked it because they were playing
Speaker 2: care free practice rounds.
Speaker 1: I totally agree with that. H You know, I felt
Speaker 1: that anybody who's plays it doesn't matter what level you at.
Speaker 1: I mean, you could be going to play in the
Speaker 1: C Flight Club Championship and you know that it's your
Speaker 1: home golf course. You know, you normally can shoot in
Speaker 1: the low eighties. But all of a sudden, now you
Speaker 1: are putting the paper and you're in this tournament, and
Speaker 1: you know that that score is going to get posted
Speaker 1: up on the board at the end of the day,
Speaker 1: and all of a sudden you're like, oh, man, you
Speaker 1: can't hit it over there, and that bunk is dead,
Speaker 1: and oh this plut's going to be breaking a ton more. So,
Speaker 1: you know, it goes back to us talking about the
Speaker 1: doubt earlier, but yeah, this week. You know, the players
Speaker 1: that I'd spoken to leading up to it, that had
Speaker 1: made trips up there, the general consensus was, Gosh, if
Speaker 1: you drive it well, you're going to have so many
Speaker 1: wedges and so many scoring opportunities to be able to attack.
Speaker 1: And I think part of that is the mental aspect
Speaker 1: of when you're going to on a scouting trip or
Speaker 1: you're playing a practice round, there's no consequence. Part of
Speaker 1: it is that the conditions were probably more but benign
Speaker 1: when they went up there. And then also the whole
Speaker 1: locations that were being used during those practice rounds were softer.
Speaker 1: So now you start to add not just the pressure
Speaker 1: of competing in a major championship, but you know, all
Speaker 1: of a sudden, the whole location on ten on Sundays
Speaker 1: pushed a yard further right closer to the fall off,
Speaker 1: and you start to throw some wind in there, and
Speaker 1: everything just gets taken up a couple notches, and the
Speaker 1: golf course really showed its teeth all week long. I
Speaker 1: mean it was I also think, you know, players that
Speaker 1: went a week or two before, because of the weather
Speaker 1: and the snow and the rain and the stuff that
Speaker 1: they have so late into the season up in the Northeast,
Speaker 1: maybe the players underestimated how much the rough would fill
Speaker 1: in and grow between those scouting trips a couple weeks
Speaker 1: before or a week before to when the tournament kicked
Speaker 1: off on Thursday. You know, I'm not sure what products
Speaker 1: they used, but that stuff came in pretty thick. I
Speaker 1: mean it was dense, and they topped it off on
Speaker 1: Tuesday evening for the last time to get it nice
Speaker 1: and uniform. But by the time the weekend rolled around,
Speaker 1: it was it was pretty severe. It was really very punishing.
Speaker 1: Gnarlly is the right word, you know.
Speaker 2: I this is kind of one of my last thoughts
Speaker 2: on the golf course. Just because you brought up in
Speaker 2: this triggered something in my mind about uh, you know,
Speaker 2: just technology and where the game's got something that I
Speaker 2: don't know if I've seen play out in a major
Speaker 2: as well, but showcasing, you know, what the way I
Speaker 2: think the way traditionalists want to see the game play
Speaker 2: out was really the fifteenth hole, and it required a
Speaker 2: five hundred and fifty yard part four, but it it
Speaker 2: presented the idea of what the way the way golf
Speaker 2: is functionally supposed to work from a scale standpoint, where
Speaker 2: if I hit the fairway, I have a huge advantage
Speaker 2: in distance. Gives me a massive, massive advantage. You know.
Speaker 2: If I'm a long hitter and I hit something up
Speaker 2: there and I've got two hundred yards in and I'm
Speaker 2: hitting a six or seven iron in, I have a
Speaker 2: big advantage from the fairway. If I'm a shorter hitter,
Speaker 2: I better hit the fairway. I have to hit the
Speaker 2: fair away. I have to rely on my accuracy, and
Speaker 2: if I don't, I mean the four iron from the
Speaker 2: rough is going to be impossible. The idea, though, where
Speaker 2: this works really well is if the long hitter missed
Speaker 2: on that hole, that six five iron maybe because it
Speaker 2: doesn't go as far in the rough into the green
Speaker 2: became impossible for the long hitter on a four hundred
Speaker 2: and fifty yard hole which used to be a long
Speaker 2: par four. Sure the scale has gotten so out of
Speaker 2: place that the long hitter has a wedge in and
Speaker 2: the rough doesn't impact the wedge as much as the
Speaker 2: seven iron, that flatter, blade less loft more likely to
Speaker 2: get grabbed and turn over. So it illustrated to me
Speaker 2: the dynamic of what people want out of a long
Speaker 2: par four to play out where there is a you know,
Speaker 2: you stand on the tee on a long par four
Speaker 2: and it is not about like I really have to
Speaker 2: send this and get this way out there. It is
Speaker 2: I have to hit this fairway. I got to hit
Speaker 2: my best drive of the day here if I'm a
Speaker 2: long hitter. Yeah, it actually played out that way, and
Speaker 2: I don't think i've seen a golf hole play out
Speaker 2: to that dynamic and that degree of that dynamic as
Speaker 2: well as the fifteenth had.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I agree with you. I mean, another reason why
Speaker 1: the wedges are easier to hit out the rough is
Speaker 1: because there's more angle of attack. Naturally with the shorter
Speaker 1: shaft and more angle of attack makes a shot out
Speaker 1: of the rough easier because you're chopping down on it
Speaker 1: more in a sense. So I mean, I totally agree
Speaker 1: with you. I mean, you know you mentioned the golf
Speaker 1: discourse online earlier. I mean, it's something it's great to
Speaker 1: see fans so passionate and take their positions and debate
Speaker 1: back and forth at times get a little mean, but
Speaker 1: you know, I guess that it comes with the territory.
Speaker 1: But when you think about that second nine, I mean,
Speaker 1: let's talk about the second nine at ARONO mean tense
Speaker 1: t shot. I'm going to run through this real quick,
Speaker 1: just to show the options, the variance and the brilliance
Speaker 1: of the golf course in the way set up tense
Speaker 1: t shot. Further, you hit it down there, you got
Speaker 1: to then keep it up the right or the ball
Speaker 1: runs into the rough, or you can play to the
Speaker 1: top of the hill. But then you've got a long
Speaker 1: iron in. You've got a green that falls off behind
Speaker 1: and to the right, and you've got a pond in front.
Speaker 1: So you take your pick as the player, what do
Speaker 1: you want to do? Aaron right couldn't quite get it
Speaker 1: over the hill. He then favored the right hand side
Speaker 1: and rolled off. He got it up and down. Great.
Speaker 1: Part eleven is a short little hole that you could hit,
Speaker 1: you know, downwind. Earlier in the week, there were some
Speaker 1: players that were hitting long irons off the tee to
Speaker 1: then have a longer shot in to be able to
Speaker 1: control the spin to back hole locations. Because to back
Speaker 1: hole locations you didn't want a lot of spin because
Speaker 1: it could spin off the front and to front hole locations.
Speaker 1: Then they would try to push it down there because
Speaker 1: you needed the spin to be able to bring it
Speaker 1: back toward the hole, so you got more options there.
Speaker 1: Same thing on twelve, there's the cross bunkers. Players were
Speaker 1: deciding whether they wanted to try to carry them or
Speaker 1: stay short. Thirteen's driveable the path. Threes, fourteen, and seventeen
Speaker 1: at times were woods. On Sunday it was more of
Speaker 1: a short iron because they moved the tee up to
Speaker 1: the left hoole location, and then you got fifteen and sixteen.
Speaker 1: I mean you rarely saw players being tested not just
Speaker 1: with strategy, but having to shape the ball both ways
Speaker 1: if they wanted to stay in the fair way, move
Speaker 1: their trajectories around, depending on if they wanted to land
Speaker 1: the ball short and bounce it up or try and
Speaker 1: fly it and stop it. And so it was a
Speaker 1: pretty complete test in my mind. And to be able
Speaker 1: to do that nowadays with the technology that these players
Speaker 1: have at their disposal, I think really deserves to be
Speaker 1: applauded from the setup crew and carry aig and everybody
Speaker 1: involved at the PGA.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And I think like underscoring the whole thing is
Speaker 2: the greens that present that if you if you took
Speaker 2: stuff out of the greens, then it wouldn't have that effect,
Speaker 2: of that seismic effect back to the tea. It's why
Speaker 2: all golf. You know Brooks cupa years ago at LACC,
Speaker 2: somebody asked him about you know this is right after
Speaker 2: you want to kill ask them about how he prepares
Speaker 2: for majors. He goes, I started the greens and look back. Yes,
Speaker 2: you know, if you think about that from a design
Speaker 2: standpoint and testing the best, like I don't think in
Speaker 2: this era of golf you can you can really test
Speaker 2: these guys without a real exacting set of greens.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's you know, it's another thing that's kind of
Speaker 1: come along with the way closes are set up week
Speaker 1: in a week out. With how good these players are
Speaker 1: with which the technology is. They're not often asked those
Speaker 1: questions and have to rarely consider angles. You know. That's
Speaker 1: why we love a place like Riviera every time we
Speaker 1: go there, because you've got some space. But in order
Speaker 1: to have a decent birdie look or secure a par
Speaker 1: let's just say that you've got to be in the
Speaker 1: right side of the fairway. You know. Augusta National is
Speaker 1: kind of similar as well.
Speaker 2: I mean TPC sawgrass, even as it's gotten muted, the
Speaker 2: greens are so exacting.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, it's something we don't see that often, that
Speaker 1: which is why I rarely appreciate it when we do.
Speaker 1: Now it's a lot of fun. You've got to reverse
Speaker 1: engineer it. You've got to start with, Okay, where is
Speaker 1: the whole location today? What ridges are available for me
Speaker 1: to use to get close? All right? If those are
Speaker 1: the ridges I can use or the backstop that I
Speaker 1: have available to me, now, where is the wind today?
Speaker 1: And we're also fortunate that we had a wind switch
Speaker 1: from the north to the south, and so you know,
Speaker 1: all of a sudden, these players were thrown off balance
Speaker 1: because the way they were playing the course earlier in
Speaker 1: the week had to flip once the wind switched to
Speaker 1: the south on the weekend, and so you had to
Speaker 1: reverse the engineer from the whole location and green complex
Speaker 1: back to Okay, now, what's my strategy going to be
Speaker 1: to give me the best opportunity? A lot of fun,
Speaker 1: A lot of fun.
Speaker 2: All right, let's take a quick break and talk about
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Speaker 2: well you recovered overnight. Your body needs to cool down
Speaker 2: to enter deep sleep, and deep sleep is when your
Speaker 2: muscles actually repair and your mind reset. For golfers, that
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Speaker 2: get back to Trevor Immelman. What do you peel back
Speaker 2: Aaron Raye? I think, uh, I think the there's a
Speaker 2: lot of aspects of him that kind of resonate with people.
Speaker 2: What resonates the most with you about Aaron Rye?
Speaker 1: Well, I starked with the human first he is. He's
Speaker 1: just a great gentleman, extremely well mannered and reserved, just
Speaker 1: a wonderful guy. I think Rory said it best. I mean,
Speaker 1: you're going to find it hard to get a hold
Speaker 1: of one person that has anything bad to say about him.
Speaker 1: So I starked with that. You know, the appreciation and
Speaker 1: gratitude that he has to be able to play on
Speaker 1: tour and in major championships and he's understanding of the
Speaker 1: history of that is just so fun to see. You know.
Speaker 1: It's nice because you kind of wonder like in the
Speaker 1: last half decade or so, you know, the sport feels
Speaker 1: like it's changed a little bit. You know, so much
Speaker 1: of the discourses around money and prize funds and bonus
Speaker 1: structures and sign on bonuses and all sorts of stuff
Speaker 1: like that it's really nice to all of a sudden
Speaker 1: come across somebody who you feel just as a deep
Speaker 1: appreciation for the sport and the ability to play it
Speaker 1: for a living. You know, that's some thing that I
Speaker 1: really enjoyed just observing how.
Speaker 3: He he handled the moments after he finished, you know,
Speaker 3: we still had a couple of groups to finish up,
Speaker 3: and and.
Speaker 1: How he was standing there even at the presentation and
Speaker 1: just looking at the trophy and trying to take everything in.
Speaker 1: I thought there was some real, some real cool moments
Speaker 1: in there understanding his journey and how grateful he was
Speaker 1: for that experience in that moment. I really do believe
Speaker 1: I said this on social media. I think people are
Speaker 1: really going to get to know Aaron Ray here over
Speaker 1: the next few years, as as he gets more exposure,
Speaker 1: and you know, now week after week, whether he likes
Speaker 1: it or not, he's going to have media wanting to
Speaker 1: talk to him, and people are really going to get
Speaker 1: a feel for his thought process and his stance on
Speaker 1: certain topics. And so I go there first. You know,
Speaker 1: I remember, I hate talking about myself first of all,
Speaker 1: but this is quite an interesting story. I remember playing
Speaker 1: the Irish Open many years ago and I played a
Speaker 1: practice round with him and he was telling me a
Speaker 1: story about watching me when I won the Masters using
Speaker 1: the Nike SQ driver and I had like the week
Speaker 1: of my life off of the tea right. I was
Speaker 1: driving it so well. Never ever drove it that well
Speaker 1: again in my career. But he actually got that driver
Speaker 1: after that and used it for a while, and I
Speaker 1: remember him telling me that story as we were playing
Speaker 1: a practice round. I immediately got a sense of you know,
Speaker 1: this guy pays attention. You know, he's locked into the
Speaker 1: sport and is completely and utterly in love with that.
Speaker 1: And so I start. I start from that angle of
Speaker 1: really enjoying the person that he is, the work ethic,
Speaker 1: the dedication, the discipline, and how grounded he is, you know,
Speaker 1: you don't often see that in this day and age anymore.
Speaker 1: And then his understanding of what his strengths and weaknesses are.
Speaker 1: You know, he knows how to enforce his strategy and
Speaker 1: his strengths on a particular golf course. And now that
Speaker 1: he has that belief structure, it's going to be interesting
Speaker 1: to see how he goes from here. With the extra
Speaker 1: attention he's about to receive.
Speaker 2: He's up to you know, I think he's sixteen in
Speaker 2: the latest owgr and I think before that though, he
Speaker 2: had gotten into the low twenties. So this is this
Speaker 2: is a guy that's I mean obviously you know you
Speaker 2: watch him, he is. One of his big traits is consistency.
Speaker 2: You know, you know what he brings to the course
Speaker 2: every days is you know, is pretty reliable. I think
Speaker 2: something that I I guess didn't know about him was
Speaker 2: that he was married to Grika the a former European
Speaker 2: women's tour player, And like, something I would love to
Speaker 2: hear is like, you know, he mentioned this and after
Speaker 2: after winning, was like the conversations they had in the
Speaker 2: car to and from the course, and like, you know,
Speaker 2: I feel like so many there's so few people that
Speaker 2: are extremely golf obsessed, you know. I think Aaron Raye
Speaker 2: just like kind of thinking about how he gets it done.
Speaker 2: He has I would guess, and I haven't ever had
Speaker 2: a conversation uh with him, but I would guess that
Speaker 2: he has a very sophisticated golf brain and being married
Speaker 2: to a former tour player, I would just I think,
Speaker 2: like one of the great things with just being a
Speaker 2: be a fly on the wall of what they were
Speaker 2: talking about this week as he's you know, in the
Speaker 2: mix for the biggest tournament of his lifetime, what were
Speaker 2: they talking about that? That's the stuff. Honestly, one of
Speaker 2: the things I the human element of him and his
Speaker 2: wife's relationship and in the conversations they must have over
Speaker 2: the dinner table was something I left this week fascinated about.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I totally agree with you. And that's, you know,
Speaker 1: another reason why I said what I said. It's going
Speaker 1: to be so much fun for us to get to
Speaker 1: know him because he's not the type of guy that
Speaker 1: in his career and you know, he's been around almost
Speaker 1: a decade at the pro level, he's never been a
Speaker 1: guy that's like searched for attention. And so there's so
Speaker 1: much untapped potential of us finding out about this guy
Speaker 1: because for the most part, the majority of golf fans
Speaker 1: don't know the first thing about him. You know, when
Speaker 1: you when you you start to understand his upbringing and
Speaker 1: you know the sacrifices his parents made in order to
Speaker 1: help him live out his dream. You know, his dad
Speaker 1: being an ex tennis coach and not knowing anything about golf,
Speaker 1: but you know, being willing to really invest his life
Speaker 1: and his time in allowing his son to chase his
Speaker 1: dreams and then becoming best friends. And if you've ever
Speaker 1: spent any time around the DP World Tour, you know,
Speaker 1: back before Aaron was starting to play here in the US,
Speaker 1: you would see his dad out, you know, on the
Speaker 1: range and on the chipping green and on the course
Speaker 1: with him practice rounds, and you've rarely got a feel
Speaker 1: for how close they are, and you start to understand
Speaker 1: about you know, his mom and her working and supporting
Speaker 1: their family. You know, we we rarely are going to
Speaker 1: enjoy peeling back the layers, and I hope, I hope
Speaker 1: he allows allows us to learn more about him and
Speaker 1: understand what a cool journey this has been for him
Speaker 1: to get to this point. It's going to be great.
Speaker 1: You know, if Riot Scotty had won, would it have
Speaker 1: been a bigger story for sure, even John Rahm. But
Speaker 1: you know, we already know everything there is to know
Speaker 1: about these guys, you know, we we we still have
Speaker 1: so much to learn about Aaron. And you know, let
Speaker 1: me just double check his age here. He's only thirty
Speaker 1: one years old. So hopefully we've got a long runway
Speaker 1: of getting to understand and what the journey has been,
Speaker 1: what his experience has been like, and also how he
Speaker 1: understands the game, you know, and why he's made these
Speaker 1: choices he's made, whether it be from the two Gloves
Speaker 1: to you know, this golf swing that him and his
Speaker 1: coaches have come up with, why they think it works,
Speaker 1: why they think it's the best way for him to
Speaker 1: go about it. There's there's there's a lot of a
Speaker 1: lot of untapped stuff that we're going to be able
Speaker 1: to try and figure out here.
Speaker 2: You know, obviously everybody, you know, all of these players
Speaker 2: were in the mix. Are there is there a specific
Speaker 2: player or a group of players that you feel might
Speaker 2: have left Philadelphia kicking themselves.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, there's a bunch. There's a bunch because I
Speaker 1: mean so many had a legitimate shot. The one that
Speaker 1: jumps to my mind immediately is Rory playing the par
Speaker 1: fives in even that is unusual and if he could
Speaker 1: have just found a way to play those holes better
Speaker 1: past seventy s there's only two of them, so he's
Speaker 1: had eight opportunities throughout the week. But even if you
Speaker 1: look at Sunday, you know he's got seven nine into
Speaker 1: the ninth hole and walks away with a five, so
Speaker 1: absolutely for him.
Speaker 2: I think about, well, Aaron, Aaron Reif played them six hunder.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so he's got You've got six shots on Rory
Speaker 1: right there, and he's probably giving he's probably giving up
Speaker 1: fifty yards off the tee in distance to Rory. So
Speaker 1: it really starts to play out how poorly Rory played
Speaker 1: those holes. So he's going to be extremely disappointed with that.
Speaker 1: You think about Ludwig, who hit the ball about as
Speaker 1: well as anybody, but putted about as bad as anybody
Speaker 1: who made the cut. And then you got the flip
Speaker 1: side of Xander, who drove the ball and putted as
Speaker 1: well as anybody and hit his irons as badly as
Speaker 1: anybody who made the cut. And so those two guys
Speaker 1: left a lot out there from that standpoint. And then
Speaker 1: you think about John Rahm, who missed those couple of
Speaker 1: shorties on Saturday. He played extremely well as a whole,
Speaker 1: but just fell shy, and so I'm sure there's a
Speaker 1: few a few shots in there that he would love
Speaker 1: the opportunity to have back as well.
Speaker 2: So yeah, there's time Saturday afternoon.
Speaker 1: Yeah, just a terrible finish for Thomas Saturday afternoon. I
Speaker 1: mean even Alex Smally. I mean you think about how
Speaker 1: interesting it was, like he would have runs of bad
Speaker 1: holes where it'd make a bunch of bogies, and then
Speaker 1: he'd have runs of holes where he was just rilling
Speaker 1: off birdies, and so if he could have been a
Speaker 1: bit more consistent, he may have even had a better shot.
Speaker 1: But all in all, a great week for him to
Speaker 1: have his first top five in a major. So yeah,
Speaker 1: just tons of guys that had an opportunity. I can't
Speaker 1: believe we didn't have a playoff. I mean I I
Speaker 1: arrived to the course on Sunday just being convinced that
Speaker 1: we were going to have a three hole aggregate playoff,
Speaker 1: which I was also quite looking forward to because it
Speaker 1: was going to be the tenth and then the seventeenth
Speaker 1: and the eighteenth. That would have been that would have
Speaker 1: been fun to watch how how those players went about that.
Speaker 2: It would have been neat if if we had gotten
Speaker 2: somebody that really needed to take that seventeenth pin on.
Speaker 2: I don't know if anybody would have, but you know
Speaker 2: that that pen was just a stay away all day
Speaker 2: for everybody, and it would have been interesting if somebody went,
Speaker 2: you know, two down or whatever after ten and had
Speaker 2: to go at seventeen and try and take on that shot.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's so hard to get at because there's such
Speaker 1: a small flat spot up there. I mean talking about
Speaker 1: probably nine steps or so. The bank in front was shaved,
Speaker 1: which I loved to see. By the way, you know,
Speaker 1: we don't see that that often in pro golf. Normally
Speaker 1: there's some thick rough to slow the ball down. But
Speaker 1: the bank was shaved, so that was a complete no. No,
Speaker 1: I couldn't mess with that at all. And then it
Speaker 1: fell off to the back of the to the eighteenth
Speaker 1: tee or one of the eighteenth t's. If you went long,
Speaker 1: if you were going to take it on from whatever,
Speaker 1: it was one seventy or one seventy five or so,
Speaker 1: you'd have to hit it so high to stop it
Speaker 1: in that little flat spot. And the wind was helping
Speaker 1: out of the left. So now the higher you hit it,
Speaker 1: you know, the more the wind's going to carry it.
Speaker 1: So you need to then take less club. But in
Speaker 1: the back of your mind like, gosh, I'm taking less club,
Speaker 1: but I've got the shaved bank and the pond in front,
Speaker 1: and so it really mentally was providing such a stiff
Speaker 1: challenge for these guys. You know, he hit it in
Speaker 1: the water. It's an automatic double, and so they they're
Speaker 1: just much more comfortable dumping it out there to forty feet,
Speaker 1: which wasn't an easy two putt for a lot of guys.
Speaker 1: I mean, the fact that Aaron went ahead and made
Speaker 1: that bomb there is was icing on the cake. I
Speaker 1: thought that was a really cool moment and once again
Speaker 1: a glimpse into his personality of the way of the
Speaker 1: way he handled that and the way he acted and
Speaker 1: his response.
Speaker 2: Reactually handled the wind. I mean, caps in you know,
Speaker 2: most consequential putt probably of his career, and he just
Speaker 2: it was just like you know, he beat there before.
Speaker 1: Yeah, he's just he's just he's got so much respect
Speaker 1: not just for the situation and the tournament and the tradition,
Speaker 1: but for his fellow playing competitors and everybody out there.
Speaker 1: Something something to be appreciated, something to be appreciated.
Speaker 2: What do you make of Scottie Shuffler's here to date?
Speaker 1: Well, it's good, it's good. He's just spoiled us so
Speaker 1: much that we like we want more. You know, he's
Speaker 1: kind of like he has he has such a gift
Speaker 1: and such a talent, and he works so hard, he's
Speaker 1: so good, and and because he spoilt us by rattling
Speaker 1: off twenty wins in under five years, you know, we
Speaker 1: always we always want more from him, you know, even
Speaker 1: though he's won once, and he's had all these seconds
Speaker 1: and thirds, and he's had these great opportunities, we expect
Speaker 1: more out of him. But it's still it's still been
Speaker 1: a great season with with a lot left to play for.
Speaker 1: I mean, would I be surprised if he won one
Speaker 1: or both of the remaining majors. No, I wouldn't be
Speaker 1: surprised at all. I mean, the guy is, he's still
Speaker 1: the player to beat week in and week out.
Speaker 2: We're the putting kind of was reminiscent of a couple
Speaker 2: of years ago. Are you do you have any worries
Speaker 2: about that going forward? Or do you think that was
Speaker 2: just the unique circumstances that around me kind of put
Speaker 2: a lot of players into Yeah, I have.
Speaker 1: No concern, no concern at all. I think it's just
Speaker 1: due to the severity of the greens and the wind
Speaker 1: and all those things going on. I don't see this
Speaker 1: as a trend at all. I think he's done brilliant
Speaker 1: work with the putt, change with the group and technique,
Speaker 1: change the work he's done with Phil Kenyon understanding the
Speaker 1: best way for him to put I think it was
Speaker 1: just a you know, a blip on the radar. I
Speaker 1: don't see this being a patent at all.
Speaker 2: I think when you get those really windy conditions, you
Speaker 2: could just have a day or two on the greens
Speaker 2: where it's just like god like, I just don't know
Speaker 2: what's going on. And as you said earlier, the doubt, yeah,
Speaker 2: which is the that's the the nightmare for pro golf
Speaker 2: I could win to me is the added ingredient that
Speaker 2: can make putting catastrophic on a day to day basis.
Speaker 1: Yeah, totally agree. The thing with Scotty that I do
Speaker 1: find interesting and as a part of me that enjoys
Speaker 1: observing it, is, you know, he's so good, and he's
Speaker 1: in such control for the most part, every shot he hits.
Speaker 1: In his mind, when he hits it, he's already calculated.
Speaker 1: This is part of his genius. He's already calculated the
Speaker 1: result that he should receive. And the only thing that
Speaker 1: I can see that throws him off is when he
Speaker 1: doesn't receive his respected result, and then he gets he
Speaker 1: gets annoyed by that, and that's when frustration starts to
Speaker 1: show for him. And it's kind of interesting because you
Speaker 1: get a little bit of a glimpse into his genius
Speaker 1: because he's it's like he's taken all the information in
Speaker 1: and he's factored what's supposed to happen, and when that
Speaker 1: doesn't happen, uh, it gets under his skin. And so
Speaker 1: that's that's gonna be that's gonna be fun to watch
Speaker 1: him deal with that, you know, over the over the
Speaker 1: next decade or so. Uh. It's it's a really interesting
Speaker 1: trait that he has and Greally, you can only have
Speaker 1: it when you're that good at that level. That is,
Speaker 1: it's been untouched by the majority of golfers that have
Speaker 1: ever walked on the planet.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, a lot of golfers have expectations of
Speaker 2: I'm going to play this way in a totality today.
Speaker 2: His goes down to the minute, shot by shot, Yeah,
Speaker 2: you know, which I feel like if he didn't have
Speaker 2: such a good head on his shoulders and and kind
Speaker 2: of you know, kind of perspective of in place that
Speaker 2: that expectation level could send you to a sane asylum.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, for sure. He is so good. He's so
Speaker 1: good Andy, Oh my word, he is so good every
Speaker 1: part of the game, every aspect of the game, mentally, physically.
Speaker 1: You know, something that hasn't been spoken about so much
Speaker 1: is and Aaron Orry is about to figure this out.
Speaker 1: I mean I had a very small sample size of it.
Speaker 1: But when you when you start to get into the
Speaker 1: the higher levels of the sport and you win a
Speaker 1: major championship or more, the extra stuff that you have
Speaker 1: to deal with, a lot of people struggle with that.
Speaker 1: I struggled with that, to be honest with you. So
Speaker 1: Scotty has been able to find a way to maintain
Speaker 1: this level and keep winning at this clip whilst dealing
Speaker 1: with all the ancillary stuff. I mean, the guy every
Speaker 1: time he pitches up. I mean an ultimate example is Tiger, right,
Speaker 1: you know, when he goes to a tournament or does anything,
Speaker 1: it's news. And Scotty has had to deal with that
Speaker 1: over the last four or five years and still been
Speaker 1: able to maintain that high level and the focus and
Speaker 1: the dedication. And that's been impressive. You got to you've
Speaker 1: got to appreciate that. I mean, it's a lot to
Speaker 1: ask of a person weekend and week out when he's competing.
Speaker 1: I mean like, for instance, he's going to arrive at
Speaker 1: the Byron Nelson this week and even though he didn't
Speaker 1: win last week, he's defending champion. He's gonna have to
Speaker 1: go into the media. He's gonna have to answer all
Speaker 1: sorts of questions about winning last year and then why
Speaker 1: didn't you win the PGA, what happened? And it's just,
Speaker 1: you know, a lot of times the stuff starts to
Speaker 1: chip away at you, and look, as part of the program,
Speaker 1: you know, you want to be great, you get extra attention,
Speaker 1: but it doesn't mean that it's easy. And he's been
Speaker 1: able to maintain this level of greatness with a lot
Speaker 1: of stuff going on.
Speaker 2: So next he'll go to the US Open at Shnnacock.
Speaker 2: He'll be looking to complete the grand Slam. There, you
Speaker 2: played the oh four shnnakok US Open. What are your
Speaker 2: thoughts on the golf course and what we might see
Speaker 2: and how it fares for Scottie.
Speaker 1: Well, the course is a masterpiece. It's just absolutely brilliant.
Speaker 1: Once again, you know, just like Rono Mink, you're gonna
Speaker 1: have a really special set of green complexes that are
Speaker 1: very fast and very angele you get the right whether
Speaker 1: they're going to be very firm and bouncy, and.
Speaker 2: You're gonna have to deal with wind again.
Speaker 1: And you got wind again. You have some wonderful elevation changes,
Speaker 1: brilliant part threes again, you know, seven jumps to mind,
Speaker 1: eleven jumps to mind. We're just keeping it on the
Speaker 1: putting surface with a mid to short iron. It's like
Speaker 1: a victory in and of itself. It's gonna be great
Speaker 1: the top of the test. The more I like, chefless chances,
Speaker 1: and so that'd be great. Imagine if we have, you know,
Speaker 1: in such a short space of time, we waited so
Speaker 1: long for someone to complete the career Grand Slam. Wouldn't
Speaker 1: it be cool if you know, in two years we
Speaker 1: got Rory doing it, and then Scotty doing it, and
Speaker 1: then Jordan doing it in Uh, that'd be something.
Speaker 2: With it, it would I mean, I feel bad for
Speaker 2: Rory and Uh and Harry because he's got that signed scorecard.
Speaker 2: He'd have to you know, open it up, kip it
Speaker 2: out to Scotta, get him to sign it, then to
Speaker 2: close it back up. And then you know, if Jordan
Speaker 2: did it, he have to I'm worried there might not
Speaker 2: be space on the card. I know, they might have.
Speaker 1: To go into the back side of it. But uh yeah,
Speaker 1: look any any tournament that Schiff was playing. I mean,
Speaker 1: he's the favorite. He's the favorite. The guy is uh
Speaker 1: he's beyond special.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I you know, with with regards to Shinnecock, the degree,
Speaker 2: especially if you get if the wind is blowing, the
Speaker 2: degree of sophistication required to hit certain shots is so high.
Speaker 2: I mean you're talking about, you know, I need to
Speaker 2: flight this down and hit this shape into this crosswind
Speaker 2: in order to you know, find the right spot of
Speaker 2: the green and if you play safe kind of similar
Speaker 2: to ronom inc where you see just the there is
Speaker 2: like a an element of death by angle because of
Speaker 2: the wind and the firmness of the golf course where
Speaker 2: oh I'm in the fairway, but like I my degree
Speaker 2: of difficulty on this shot is so high, you know,
Speaker 2: if I you know, it's like I'm taking on that
Speaker 2: sucker pin, you know, just trying to hold the green.
Speaker 2: And I think, you know, I think the assessment that
Speaker 2: that golf course and this is where you know him
Speaker 2: kind of cracking the Lynx golf you know, uh, code
Speaker 2: last year. You know, the the when the more elements
Speaker 2: you throw at Scottie or the more elements you th
Speaker 2: row at a field and in firmness, the more that
Speaker 2: Scottie Scheffler is just going to be able to separate himself.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, look, there's many reasons that I can't wait
Speaker 1: to watch it on TV.
Speaker 2: You got to be excited to be be be just
Speaker 2: a spectator after covering the first two.
Speaker 1: Yeah, maybe I'll turn into tuh, you know, one of
Speaker 1: those Twitter warriors and start firing away some takes. Who
Speaker 1: knows anything could happen.
Speaker 2: I think you should go on one of Pj's lunches
Speaker 2: that you know, he has a at mid day on uh,
Speaker 2: you know, on a tournament day.
Speaker 4: I'm disappointed. I'm disappointed. I've never been invited to chat
Speaker 4: with the boys. I mean, this is uh, you know,
Speaker 4: I'm gonna have to have a word with PJ about that.
Speaker 2: You know, it's a very exclusive club and you know camp.
Speaker 2: You know, the issue is that Cam Young has to
Speaker 2: appear in a mountain. He's all sudden become a more
Speaker 2: difficult guest for the boys.
Speaker 1: Oh, he's great, I'm sure he'll he'll he'll be back
Speaker 1: on soon the boy Listen, the boys were so far
Speaker 1: ahead on the Cam Young discourse. You know, I'm very impressed.
Speaker 1: I'm very impressed. They're not a spot tell him.
Speaker 2: I'm worried for him, you know. They I think that
Speaker 2: they feel like they might be losing their their their
Speaker 2: their golden goose.
Speaker 1: You know, they may just have to love him. They
Speaker 1: may just have to love him from Afar. Who knows.
Speaker 2: You know, something you learn, so it's part of a
Speaker 2: growing up plus, Trevor, thanks as always, uh for covering
Speaker 2: coming on. Congrats on on a wonderful first two majors,
Speaker 2: Uh and UH and and really a great year with
Speaker 2: with your coverage on CBS and you know, for anybody
Speaker 2: that hasn't read it, James Colgan did an awesome piece
Speaker 2: for golf dot Com kind of profiling you and everything
Speaker 2: that goes into your kind of a cent in in
Speaker 2: the in the broadcast and analysis world.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I appreciate it. Thanks Andy. Uh, We've had a
Speaker 1: great run so far. It's been a wonderful season and
Speaker 1: UH looking looking forward to seeing what happens from here
Speaker 1: on out. We've got some great tournaments to come.
Speaker 2: Still, I'm looking forward to when you're when you're in
Speaker 2: Chicago for the President's couple, we have.
Speaker 1: To oh yeah, absolutely, that is going to be. It's
Speaker 1: going to be a monster. We've we've had a team
Speaker 1: trip up there already last year, in fact, during the
Speaker 1: Ryder Cup week, and I'm such a massive fan of
Speaker 1: the golf course and what Jeff and his team did
Speaker 1: there with the renovation. I think people are gonna love it.
Speaker 1: It's gonna be it's gonna be a great week, and
Speaker 1: hopefully we can find a way to play some good
Speaker 1: golf and have a shot at lifting that trophy.
Speaker 2: All Right, we'll talk to you soon. We'll see you
Speaker 2: after Shinnecock sounds good.
Speaker 1: Cheers guys, all.
Speaker 2: Right, big thanks to Trevor as always for taking them
Speaker 2: time to record with us after these majors. There's some
Speaker 2: of our favorite pods we do all year. And also
Speaker 2: big thanks to PJ Clark who has been just burning
Speaker 2: the midnight oil, producing a ton of content both as
Speaker 2: a host and co host as well as a producer.
Speaker 2: So we'll be back next week. We're probably gonna start
Speaker 2: our Shinnecock prep so look for a podcast Wednesday next week,
Speaker 2: and thanks as always for listening to the Friday Golf
Speaker 2: podcast
Speaker 3: Y