1 00:00:02,960 --> 00:00:05,360 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff to Blow Your Mind production of My 2 00:00:05,480 --> 00:00:10,360 Speaker 1: Heart Radio. Hey, are you welcome to do Stuff to 3 00:00:10,400 --> 00:00:13,600 Speaker 1: Blow Your Mind listener mail. My name is Robert lamp 4 00:00:14,120 --> 00:00:16,520 Speaker 1: and I'm Joe McCormick, and it's Monday, the day of 5 00:00:16,560 --> 00:00:19,160 Speaker 1: the week that we usually read back messages that you 6 00:00:19,320 --> 00:00:21,840 Speaker 1: have sent into the show account. By the way, if 7 00:00:21,880 --> 00:00:23,560 Speaker 1: you've never written in and you'd like to get in 8 00:00:23,600 --> 00:00:26,880 Speaker 1: touch to share something interesting or with feedback on a 9 00:00:26,960 --> 00:00:30,880 Speaker 1: recent episode, you can always contact us at contact at 10 00:00:30,960 --> 00:00:34,680 Speaker 1: stuff to Blow your Mind dot com. Let's see Robney 11 00:00:34,680 --> 00:00:38,720 Speaker 1: business before we jump right in on these messages about throwing, 12 00:00:39,280 --> 00:00:41,240 Speaker 1: no business, Let's get right down to the business of 13 00:00:41,320 --> 00:00:44,839 Speaker 1: listener mail. Okay, So this is in response to our 14 00:00:44,840 --> 00:00:48,720 Speaker 1: series on throwing behavior, first in animals, and then we 15 00:00:48,760 --> 00:00:57,360 Speaker 1: eventually talked about throwing in humans. There were a couple 16 00:00:57,400 --> 00:01:01,840 Speaker 1: of emails from listeners Nobile and Marley on the subject 17 00:01:01,960 --> 00:01:06,040 Speaker 1: of octopus throwing. Not octopus is throwing, but octopus is 18 00:01:06,280 --> 00:01:10,080 Speaker 1: being thrown. So first, Marley writes, Hi, Joe and Robert, 19 00:01:10,120 --> 00:01:12,080 Speaker 1: I've been an avid listener since I was in high 20 00:01:12,080 --> 00:01:15,120 Speaker 1: school and your episodes on animals throwing objects was extremely 21 00:01:15,120 --> 00:01:17,640 Speaker 1: interesting to me. It just so happens that I saw 22 00:01:17,680 --> 00:01:20,560 Speaker 1: this video on my Reddit feed come up. It appears 23 00:01:20,600 --> 00:01:23,959 Speaker 1: as if a seal or sea lion throws an octopus 24 00:01:24,000 --> 00:01:27,680 Speaker 1: at a kayaking bystander, and then Marley includes a link 25 00:01:27,720 --> 00:01:29,839 Speaker 1: to the video. He says, hope you had a great 26 00:01:29,840 --> 00:01:32,560 Speaker 1: holiday season and I always look forward to more podcasts 27 00:01:32,560 --> 00:01:34,960 Speaker 1: from you two when they appear in my feed. Sincerely, 28 00:01:35,600 --> 00:01:39,559 Speaker 1: Marley uh Now Robinson's Nabile's message also addresses this. Should 29 00:01:39,600 --> 00:01:42,000 Speaker 1: we save reaction until after we get through that part 30 00:01:42,080 --> 00:01:44,560 Speaker 1: of the next one? Yeah, let's do them both first, 31 00:01:44,840 --> 00:01:48,280 Speaker 1: Okay okay. Nabil also writes, Hi, rob and Joe. When 32 00:01:48,320 --> 00:01:50,960 Speaker 1: I saw the title of the podcast animals throwing things 33 00:01:50,960 --> 00:01:54,240 Speaker 1: appear in my podcast feed, one instance of this immediately 34 00:01:54,280 --> 00:01:58,280 Speaker 1: came to mind. When you started a lengthy discussion about octopuses. 35 00:01:58,360 --> 00:02:00,560 Speaker 1: I was sure this example would come up, but it 36 00:02:00,600 --> 00:02:03,720 Speaker 1: was not mentioned. I was reminded of a video it's 37 00:02:03,720 --> 00:02:06,320 Speaker 1: seen a few years ago which does involve an octopus, 38 00:02:06,360 --> 00:02:10,080 Speaker 1: but as the throwe rather than the thrower. The animal 39 00:02:10,160 --> 00:02:13,560 Speaker 1: doing the throwing is a seal. Why this video sticks 40 00:02:13,600 --> 00:02:16,440 Speaker 1: with me is that the seal throws the octopus onto 41 00:02:16,480 --> 00:02:20,639 Speaker 1: a human who was kayaking nearby, right onto his face. 42 00:02:21,120 --> 00:02:24,200 Speaker 1: As far as I can remember, seals throw octopuses onto 43 00:02:24,280 --> 00:02:27,160 Speaker 1: rocks to kill them before they eat them. The seal 44 00:02:27,280 --> 00:02:29,800 Speaker 1: may have either mistaken the human and the kayak for 45 00:02:30,000 --> 00:02:33,440 Speaker 1: some rocks, or just wanted to see if doing this 46 00:02:33,480 --> 00:02:36,799 Speaker 1: would yield similar results. Seal of approval. I don't know 47 00:02:36,840 --> 00:02:39,320 Speaker 1: if that's upon seal of approval for use of the 48 00:02:39,360 --> 00:02:43,560 Speaker 1: scientific method. Now, Rob, did you did you watch this 49 00:02:43,680 --> 00:02:47,840 Speaker 1: video of the the octopus slap on the kayaker? Yeah? Yeah, 50 00:02:47,880 --> 00:02:51,600 Speaker 1: it's it's quite impressive footage obviously. Um for me anyway, 51 00:02:51,600 --> 00:02:54,880 Speaker 1: it's kind of hard to really decide if what I'm 52 00:02:54,919 --> 00:02:57,800 Speaker 1: looking at here is that it is a creature throwing 53 00:02:57,840 --> 00:03:02,359 Speaker 1: an octopus or a creature intentionally throwing an octopus at 54 00:03:02,400 --> 00:03:05,040 Speaker 1: a human. Um. You know, I think you would need 55 00:03:05,040 --> 00:03:07,280 Speaker 1: more data before you could really figure out if they 56 00:03:07,280 --> 00:03:11,119 Speaker 1: are throwing in general or throwing at Also, I can't 57 00:03:11,200 --> 00:03:14,120 Speaker 1: quite tell from the video if the octopus fully leaves 58 00:03:14,200 --> 00:03:17,240 Speaker 1: the seals mouth, if it is throwing the octopus at 59 00:03:17,240 --> 00:03:21,200 Speaker 1: the kayaker, or just kind of whacking the kayaker with 60 00:03:21,280 --> 00:03:25,800 Speaker 1: the octopus. Yeah, indeed, Um, yeah, I haven't looked particularly 61 00:03:25,800 --> 00:03:29,000 Speaker 1: about seals and sea lions and when it comes to 62 00:03:29,200 --> 00:03:32,920 Speaker 1: flinging prey, um, flinging prey. Maybe there's there's something to 63 00:03:32,960 --> 00:03:35,960 Speaker 1: explore in the future episode, because I know there are 64 00:03:36,000 --> 00:03:39,360 Speaker 1: examples of say, Orca doing this in the wild, and 65 00:03:39,400 --> 00:03:41,520 Speaker 1: of course in captivity, Orca have been trying to fling 66 00:03:41,600 --> 00:03:44,880 Speaker 1: human swimmers with the aid of their tails. Uh, they're 67 00:03:44,880 --> 00:03:48,920 Speaker 1: not with their their mouths. Um. But I also seem 68 00:03:49,000 --> 00:03:50,640 Speaker 1: to recall having a dog when I was younger that 69 00:03:50,680 --> 00:03:53,920 Speaker 1: would do this with Um. These are like moles or 70 00:03:53,960 --> 00:03:56,000 Speaker 1: shrews or something that it would hunt up and dig 71 00:03:56,040 --> 00:03:57,640 Speaker 1: up in the yard, and then it would sort of 72 00:03:57,640 --> 00:04:00,720 Speaker 1: play with them. And I recall, and this could be 73 00:04:00,760 --> 00:04:03,880 Speaker 1: a false recollection, but I recall something like the flinging 74 00:04:04,240 --> 00:04:06,680 Speaker 1: of the creature. Well, yeah, we'll get to some more 75 00:04:06,760 --> 00:04:09,720 Speaker 1: emails in a bit about dogs flinging things. I again 76 00:04:09,760 --> 00:04:12,720 Speaker 1: that that is a behavior I've observed in dogs, not 77 00:04:12,800 --> 00:04:15,560 Speaker 1: with live animals, but with with like a you know, 78 00:04:15,640 --> 00:04:18,160 Speaker 1: a puzzle box toy. You know, a toy that has 79 00:04:18,160 --> 00:04:22,720 Speaker 1: treats inside of this animal is not alive anymore, it's 80 00:04:22,760 --> 00:04:27,039 Speaker 1: pretty dead anyway. Going on with Nabile's message, uh, Nibile 81 00:04:27,120 --> 00:04:29,760 Speaker 1: rights in similar animal on human with the use of 82 00:04:29,800 --> 00:04:33,200 Speaker 1: other animals violence. I'm reminded of this story, which is 83 00:04:33,200 --> 00:04:35,960 Speaker 1: more in the realm of animals dropping things rather than 84 00:04:35,960 --> 00:04:40,520 Speaker 1: strictly throwing them. According to legend, the Greek playwright Escalus 85 00:04:40,680 --> 00:04:44,000 Speaker 1: met a tragic death one day. An eagle that had 86 00:04:44,040 --> 00:04:47,760 Speaker 1: caught a tortoise mistook Escalus's bald head for a shiny 87 00:04:47,880 --> 00:04:51,359 Speaker 1: rock and accidentally killed the author by dropping the animal 88 00:04:51,480 --> 00:04:54,760 Speaker 1: onto him. Apparently, it is normal for eagles to drop 89 00:04:54,800 --> 00:04:57,680 Speaker 1: tortoises onto rocks to break open their hard shell and 90 00:04:57,720 --> 00:05:01,160 Speaker 1: access the meat inside. Uh. Thanks for the tireless work 91 00:05:01,240 --> 00:05:03,680 Speaker 1: that goes into these podcasts. I enjoy the variation of 92 00:05:03,720 --> 00:05:06,719 Speaker 1: topics covered and the varying aspects that are given to them. 93 00:05:06,720 --> 00:05:10,080 Speaker 1: Regards Nibile, Well, thank you, Nabile. Oh yeah, we we've 94 00:05:10,080 --> 00:05:13,520 Speaker 1: talked about this story about Escalist before. To be clear 95 00:05:13,560 --> 00:05:17,159 Speaker 1: to everybody else, I don't know how much UH credence 96 00:05:17,320 --> 00:05:20,000 Speaker 1: historians generally put into that as like an event that 97 00:05:20,040 --> 00:05:22,720 Speaker 1: actually happened as you know it. It probably is more 98 00:05:22,760 --> 00:05:26,080 Speaker 1: likely a legend, but then again, who knows. I mean, 99 00:05:26,160 --> 00:05:29,360 Speaker 1: it is true that certain predatory birds drop things from height, 100 00:05:29,480 --> 00:05:32,120 Speaker 1: and we've talked about examples of that before. H yeah 101 00:05:32,120 --> 00:05:34,760 Speaker 1: that the lamber guy are being one that drops bones, 102 00:05:34,800 --> 00:05:38,440 Speaker 1: for example. But let's keep this bird train moving with 103 00:05:39,080 --> 00:05:46,920 Speaker 1: another message. This one comes to us from Cheryl Cheryl Rides, 104 00:05:46,960 --> 00:05:49,800 Speaker 1: Hello from New Zealand. I have just started episode two 105 00:05:49,880 --> 00:05:52,240 Speaker 1: of your series on animal throwing, and once again I 106 00:05:52,240 --> 00:05:54,560 Speaker 1: am amazed at how a concept that I've never really 107 00:05:54,560 --> 00:05:57,120 Speaker 1: stopped to consider can be so in depth and interesting. 108 00:05:57,560 --> 00:06:00,159 Speaker 1: This is my first time writing into any podcast, but 109 00:06:00,240 --> 00:06:03,359 Speaker 1: I wanted to share my own animal throwing story. My 110 00:06:03,480 --> 00:06:07,200 Speaker 1: parents were driving over Arthur's Pass in the South Island 111 00:06:07,200 --> 00:06:09,839 Speaker 1: of New Zealand and stopped at a rest area to 112 00:06:09,839 --> 00:06:12,400 Speaker 1: take a break, stretch their legs a little and look 113 00:06:12,440 --> 00:06:16,400 Speaker 1: at the view. Kia our native mountain parrots frequent this area, 114 00:06:16,480 --> 00:06:19,279 Speaker 1: and true to form, one quickly came over and started 115 00:06:19,680 --> 00:06:23,320 Speaker 1: determinedly trying to remove the rubber seals from around the 116 00:06:23,400 --> 00:06:28,800 Speaker 1: car windows. Yes, I've I've I've seen documentaries about these 117 00:06:28,800 --> 00:06:32,599 Speaker 1: amazing birds before, and they're they're highly intelligent. They often 118 00:06:32,720 --> 00:06:37,520 Speaker 1: factor into studies of of bird and or maybe individual studies, 119 00:06:37,520 --> 00:06:40,800 Speaker 1: but larger considerations of bird intelligence and tool use, and 120 00:06:41,040 --> 00:06:43,320 Speaker 1: they can get into a little bit of mischief with 121 00:06:43,440 --> 00:06:47,719 Speaker 1: their their curiosity the rubber seals around the car windows. 122 00:06:47,720 --> 00:06:51,200 Speaker 1: Do they also unscrew the hinges on your doors? I 123 00:06:51,200 --> 00:06:53,560 Speaker 1: think I saw a video of one like messing up 124 00:06:53,600 --> 00:06:55,880 Speaker 1: some windshield wiper. I mean, you know, they're curious, The're like, 125 00:06:55,920 --> 00:06:58,360 Speaker 1: what is that there for? I should take it out 126 00:06:58,400 --> 00:07:03,520 Speaker 1: to examine for brilliant Anyway, the um um cheryl continues here. 127 00:07:03,880 --> 00:07:07,120 Speaker 1: My mother waved her arms to shoo it off, but 128 00:07:07,279 --> 00:07:10,800 Speaker 1: it quickly came back when she stopped. After several repetitions 129 00:07:10,800 --> 00:07:13,720 Speaker 1: of this, the bird appeared to become annoyed, flew down 130 00:07:13,760 --> 00:07:16,080 Speaker 1: to the ground and picked up a stone and hurled 131 00:07:16,080 --> 00:07:20,600 Speaker 1: it at my mother, laughing emoji. It only hit her 132 00:07:20,600 --> 00:07:22,920 Speaker 1: on the ankle, and she was not hurt at all. 133 00:07:23,080 --> 00:07:25,320 Speaker 1: It just makes for a funny story about what looks 134 00:07:25,480 --> 00:07:30,640 Speaker 1: very much like retaliatory throwing behavior from an animal. That's interesting. 135 00:07:31,120 --> 00:07:33,760 Speaker 1: Kia are my absolute favorite native bird and are one 136 00:07:33,760 --> 00:07:36,200 Speaker 1: of the most intelligent bird species in the world. They 137 00:07:36,240 --> 00:07:39,360 Speaker 1: are said to be similar to some primates and intelligence 138 00:07:39,560 --> 00:07:42,160 Speaker 1: about the same as a four year old human child. 139 00:07:42,600 --> 00:07:45,960 Speaker 1: While they certainly have a reputation for mischief and destruction 140 00:07:46,040 --> 00:07:49,360 Speaker 1: of personal property, they are not generally aggressive towards people, 141 00:07:49,600 --> 00:07:52,440 Speaker 1: and I have never heard of any other throwing stories. 142 00:07:52,760 --> 00:07:55,120 Speaker 1: This does make me wonder where the bird learned it 143 00:07:55,200 --> 00:07:59,680 Speaker 1: from and whether it was a one off Kia. According 144 00:07:59,720 --> 00:08:03,120 Speaker 1: to New Zealand Department of Conservation website, have been known 145 00:08:03,160 --> 00:08:06,320 Speaker 1: to turn on the tap at a local campground, to 146 00:08:06,480 --> 00:08:09,160 Speaker 1: use tools to set off stoked traps in order to 147 00:08:09,240 --> 00:08:12,560 Speaker 1: get at the eggs, and to have locked a mountaineer 148 00:08:12,640 --> 00:08:17,960 Speaker 1: inside a toilet. One bird apparently learned that if it 149 00:08:17,960 --> 00:08:21,400 Speaker 1: took a piece of firewood to a hiking hut every 150 00:08:21,440 --> 00:08:24,000 Speaker 1: day and knocked on the door, it would receive a treat. 151 00:08:24,440 --> 00:08:27,360 Speaker 1: Could one have learned to throw stones after seeing someone 152 00:08:27,440 --> 00:08:30,160 Speaker 1: do it? I don't know, but it doesn't seem outside 153 00:08:30,200 --> 00:08:33,160 Speaker 1: the bounds of possibility. However it came about, it wasn't 154 00:08:33,240 --> 00:08:36,240 Speaker 1: successful in this instance because my mother still refused to 155 00:08:36,400 --> 00:08:39,640 Speaker 1: let it dismantle the car. I hope you found this interesting. 156 00:08:39,720 --> 00:08:41,640 Speaker 1: Keep up the good work. Your podcast often helps me 157 00:08:41,720 --> 00:08:44,200 Speaker 1: to see things I thought of his quite mundane in 158 00:08:44,240 --> 00:08:46,520 Speaker 1: a new and interesting light, and also helps brighten my 159 00:08:46,559 --> 00:08:50,160 Speaker 1: work commutes and dog box all the best, Cheryl. Oh, 160 00:08:50,200 --> 00:08:52,640 Speaker 1: thank you, Cheryl. That is certainly what we strive to do. 161 00:08:52,720 --> 00:08:54,760 Speaker 1: I'm glad to hear it's working for you, and thank 162 00:08:54,800 --> 00:08:57,800 Speaker 1: you so much for this is a wonderful email. Yeah, yeah, 163 00:08:57,840 --> 00:09:00,800 Speaker 1: I love I love accounts like this, and and certainly 164 00:09:00,960 --> 00:09:04,040 Speaker 1: to involve the Kia in a standoff with your mother 165 00:09:04,960 --> 00:09:08,679 Speaker 1: over the dismantling of the family automobile. This is that now, 166 00:09:08,720 --> 00:09:12,160 Speaker 1: when it locked a mountaineer in a toilet, I assume 167 00:09:12,240 --> 00:09:18,719 Speaker 1: that's a that that means in a bathroom. Yeah, though, um, 168 00:09:18,800 --> 00:09:21,280 Speaker 1: I'm trying to imagine I guess some I guess it's 169 00:09:21,280 --> 00:09:24,760 Speaker 1: not a proper report to John reporta potty because you 170 00:09:24,800 --> 00:09:28,080 Speaker 1: would need some means of locking it from the outside. 171 00:09:28,160 --> 00:09:31,560 Speaker 1: But obviously there could be various examples of some sort 172 00:09:31,600 --> 00:09:34,800 Speaker 1: of public toilet scenario in which you can lock it, 173 00:09:34,920 --> 00:09:36,720 Speaker 1: latch it, or a latch can be dropped into place 174 00:09:36,720 --> 00:09:38,520 Speaker 1: from the outside, and it must have been a scenario 175 00:09:38,600 --> 00:09:41,440 Speaker 1: like that. I can't imagine the keya installed a dead 176 00:09:41,440 --> 00:09:44,600 Speaker 1: boulder or anything. I will have to learn more about 177 00:09:44,640 --> 00:09:49,800 Speaker 1: the bird toilet imprisoning incident. Yeah, these are fascinating creatures 178 00:09:49,840 --> 00:09:51,920 Speaker 1: in general. Um, I like to say I've I've watched 179 00:09:51,920 --> 00:09:55,520 Speaker 1: documentaries about them before. It might be fun to look 180 00:09:55,520 --> 00:10:03,199 Speaker 1: at them in the future. All right, This next message 181 00:10:03,200 --> 00:10:07,000 Speaker 1: is from Renata who rides high rob and Joe. Well, 182 00:10:07,040 --> 00:10:09,240 Speaker 1: at first you said you weren't going to talk about 183 00:10:09,280 --> 00:10:11,760 Speaker 1: animals throwing things that were produced by their body, so 184 00:10:11,800 --> 00:10:14,440 Speaker 1: I thought poop throwing was off the table. But then 185 00:10:14,600 --> 00:10:18,800 Speaker 1: you brought it up with chimpanzees, which is great because 186 00:10:18,840 --> 00:10:21,640 Speaker 1: now I have an excuse to tell another embarrassing story 187 00:10:21,720 --> 00:10:25,079 Speaker 1: about Ben. Nada, by the way, has written in a 188 00:10:25,160 --> 00:10:28,200 Speaker 1: number of times before. I think Ben would be a 189 00:10:28,280 --> 00:10:31,440 Speaker 1: reference to her partner, who has come up in previous emails. 190 00:10:31,440 --> 00:10:35,440 Speaker 1: Apologies if I'm remembering that wrong. Um, but so I 191 00:10:35,480 --> 00:10:39,439 Speaker 1: think that is that this listener's partner anyway. Uh, she continues. 192 00:10:39,600 --> 00:10:42,920 Speaker 1: We were in Borneo, going on nature tours every day 193 00:10:42,960 --> 00:10:45,440 Speaker 1: on a boat down a river. One day we see 194 00:10:45,480 --> 00:10:48,200 Speaker 1: some macaques as we turn into a canal with a 195 00:10:48,240 --> 00:10:51,320 Speaker 1: canopy of trees. At first, we were all delighted to 196 00:10:51,360 --> 00:10:55,160 Speaker 1: see monkeys up close. Then sure enough the guide said 197 00:10:55,240 --> 00:10:58,559 Speaker 1: maybe we should move away as the monkeys seemed agitated. 198 00:10:58,920 --> 00:11:02,080 Speaker 1: Moments later, Ben said, um, I got hit with monkey 199 00:11:02,080 --> 00:11:05,800 Speaker 1: poo right in his lap. It was definitely thrown as 200 00:11:05,800 --> 00:11:08,640 Speaker 1: we had moved enough away that we weren't directly under 201 00:11:08,679 --> 00:11:12,000 Speaker 1: the monkeys, and also I think it was aimed purposefully. 202 00:11:12,120 --> 00:11:14,840 Speaker 1: Ben was in fact the largest mail on the boat. 203 00:11:15,240 --> 00:11:19,240 Speaker 1: Thankfully one of the other tourists had moist wipes. This 204 00:11:19,400 --> 00:11:22,079 Speaker 1: is horrifying, so I guess they're going to target the 205 00:11:22,120 --> 00:11:25,720 Speaker 1: tallest person that that kind of makes sense. We're not 206 00:11:25,800 --> 00:11:28,880 Speaker 1: A continues with a second example here. Another animal that 207 00:11:28,920 --> 00:11:31,440 Speaker 1: I saw doing a throwing like behavior similar to what 208 00:11:31,480 --> 00:11:35,840 Speaker 1: you described with the mongoose are platypuses. I wasn't able 209 00:11:35,880 --> 00:11:37,680 Speaker 1: to find a video, but Ben and I saw it 210 00:11:37,760 --> 00:11:42,319 Speaker 1: happened to some poor crayfish in a tank in Melbourne. Uh. 211 00:11:42,440 --> 00:11:46,439 Speaker 1: The platypus seemed to be flinging the crayfish into rocks 212 00:11:46,520 --> 00:11:49,640 Speaker 1: with incredible speed and force, and then circled back to 213 00:11:49,720 --> 00:11:52,160 Speaker 1: eat it. I'm not sure what part of their body 214 00:11:52,200 --> 00:11:54,920 Speaker 1: the platypus is used to smash the crayfish. It all 215 00:11:55,000 --> 00:11:58,960 Speaker 1: happened so fast. Platypuses would make a great episode or episodes. 216 00:11:59,080 --> 00:12:02,640 Speaker 1: Unto themselves, love the throwing episodes. Keep up the great work, 217 00:12:02,800 --> 00:12:07,360 Speaker 1: best Renata. Oh wow, that is interesting. Um. Yeah. For 218 00:12:07,440 --> 00:12:10,520 Speaker 1: some reason, one, or at least I tend not to 219 00:12:10,600 --> 00:12:13,840 Speaker 1: think about platypus is being the sort of species that 220 00:12:13,960 --> 00:12:17,840 Speaker 1: do interesting things. Because they are so intrinsically interesting themselves, 221 00:12:17,920 --> 00:12:22,200 Speaker 1: you know, um, Whereas it makes sense that that a 222 00:12:22,280 --> 00:12:27,760 Speaker 1: less a specialized, more generalized body plan would engage in uh, 223 00:12:27,800 --> 00:12:31,320 Speaker 1: you know, in in novel acts. This makes sense though, 224 00:12:31,360 --> 00:12:35,440 Speaker 1: because this would be another example of a UM. I 225 00:12:35,480 --> 00:12:37,319 Speaker 1: was gonna say a mammal, but as a platypus and 226 00:12:37,360 --> 00:12:40,360 Speaker 1: mammal I guess, not as a platypus or supial or 227 00:12:40,840 --> 00:12:45,000 Speaker 1: I don't know, it's one of those Australian animals we 228 00:12:45,120 --> 00:12:47,199 Speaker 1: just checked. I guess a platypus is a is an 229 00:12:47,200 --> 00:12:50,680 Speaker 1: egg laying Mammal's so sort of a I don't know, 230 00:12:50,720 --> 00:12:54,760 Speaker 1: spanning categories UM, an egg laying mammal like a platypus. 231 00:12:54,760 --> 00:12:56,559 Speaker 1: In in the other case it was a mongoose, but 232 00:12:56,679 --> 00:13:01,839 Speaker 1: some mammal like creature uh, throwing a a prey species 233 00:13:01,880 --> 00:13:04,960 Speaker 1: to get at the meat inside. In both cases here 234 00:13:05,160 --> 00:13:07,480 Speaker 1: it would be an animal with an exo skeleton. So 235 00:13:07,520 --> 00:13:10,160 Speaker 1: in the other case it was the mongoose throwing the millipede, 236 00:13:10,240 --> 00:13:12,880 Speaker 1: which rolled up into a hard ball that the other 237 00:13:12,920 --> 00:13:16,760 Speaker 1: animals couldn't get inside. And the crayfish, of course, is 238 00:13:16,760 --> 00:13:21,000 Speaker 1: is armored. It's covered with the tough exoskeleton all over. Yeah, so, 239 00:13:21,040 --> 00:13:24,640 Speaker 1: in both of these cases, very interesting examples observed in 240 00:13:24,679 --> 00:13:34,840 Speaker 1: the wild. All right, here's another one. This one comes 241 00:13:34,840 --> 00:13:39,720 Speaker 1: to us from J J. Not R J. J Uh. 242 00:13:39,800 --> 00:13:42,560 Speaker 1: This J J says, good morning, Joe and Rob. I 243 00:13:42,640 --> 00:13:45,480 Speaker 1: enjoyed your four part series on animals and people throwing, 244 00:13:45,559 --> 00:13:48,640 Speaker 1: and I have my own anecdote to share. My family 245 00:13:48,679 --> 00:13:51,400 Speaker 1: had a Chiesu growing up. While she wasn't a particularly 246 00:13:51,440 --> 00:13:55,080 Speaker 1: bride dog, she would display one specific type of throwing behavior. 247 00:13:55,360 --> 00:13:57,480 Speaker 1: When the mood struck her. She would take her tennis 248 00:13:57,480 --> 00:14:00,560 Speaker 1: ball and hike it between her legs, then run and 249 00:14:00,600 --> 00:14:03,480 Speaker 1: retrieve it. Sometimes the ball would travel several feet behind her, 250 00:14:03,480 --> 00:14:05,280 Speaker 1: but most of the time it would get slowed down 251 00:14:05,280 --> 00:14:08,840 Speaker 1: by her long hair and wind up only inches behind her. 252 00:14:09,360 --> 00:14:11,840 Speaker 1: Very comical to watch, as she never seemed to know 253 00:14:11,920 --> 00:14:15,440 Speaker 1: exactly where the ball was after the hike. Nevertheless, she 254 00:14:15,480 --> 00:14:20,960 Speaker 1: seemed to enjoy it immensely. R. I. P. Pepper. Oh, now, 255 00:14:21,000 --> 00:14:22,600 Speaker 1: this is just one of the messages we received that 256 00:14:22,680 --> 00:14:26,320 Speaker 1: reminded us that in American football, the reverse granny shot 257 00:14:26,440 --> 00:14:29,640 Speaker 1: is indeed called a hike, which I realized we should 258 00:14:29,680 --> 00:14:32,400 Speaker 1: have known because they actually say it when they do it. 259 00:14:32,840 --> 00:14:36,200 Speaker 1: They don't yell out reverse granny shot, they say hike. 260 00:14:36,720 --> 00:14:40,480 Speaker 1: Shout out to listener Carlos, who also alerted us to this, 261 00:14:40,560 --> 00:14:43,400 Speaker 1: who said, uh, yeah, I think he said in his message, 262 00:14:43,400 --> 00:14:47,000 Speaker 1: you have both mentioned not being sports fans. True guilty. 263 00:14:47,120 --> 00:14:49,320 Speaker 1: Uh And Carlos was like, I'm not really an American 264 00:14:49,320 --> 00:14:52,000 Speaker 1: football player or watcher either, but I do know that 265 00:14:52,040 --> 00:14:54,200 Speaker 1: when you throw a ball backwards between your legs, it 266 00:14:54,240 --> 00:14:57,200 Speaker 1: is called a hike. So thanks Carlos and uh and 267 00:14:57,560 --> 00:15:01,640 Speaker 1: for this message by by j J. Yeah, like it's 268 00:15:01,680 --> 00:15:04,920 Speaker 1: it's in enough things that just refer to football and 269 00:15:04,960 --> 00:15:13,480 Speaker 1: football culture that I should have remembered that. Okay. On 270 00:15:13,520 --> 00:15:16,840 Speaker 1: a similar subject about dogs throwing, this is from Cody. 271 00:15:16,920 --> 00:15:19,560 Speaker 1: Cody says, I know this isn't throwing, but the recent 272 00:15:19,600 --> 00:15:22,800 Speaker 1: series of podcasts reminded me about my dog. One day, 273 00:15:22,840 --> 00:15:26,000 Speaker 1: while working from home, I heard thudding in checking my 274 00:15:26,120 --> 00:15:29,360 Speaker 1: dog had dropped his treat puzzle down the stairs. Not 275 00:15:29,480 --> 00:15:31,680 Speaker 1: thinking much about it, I heard it again a few 276 00:15:31,760 --> 00:15:34,560 Speaker 1: days later. After this, it made me curious. I put 277 00:15:34,600 --> 00:15:37,240 Speaker 1: some more treats in the treat puzzle. He proceeded to 278 00:15:37,320 --> 00:15:40,000 Speaker 1: take the treat puzzle up the stairs and drop it 279 00:15:40,040 --> 00:15:42,600 Speaker 1: as it fell down the stairs, the treats would fall out, 280 00:15:42,640 --> 00:15:45,880 Speaker 1: so he could then enjoy treats at his leisure. Thanks 281 00:15:45,880 --> 00:15:49,680 Speaker 1: for your work. I enjoyed the podcast, Cody, very interesting. 282 00:15:50,000 --> 00:15:53,120 Speaker 1: This is smart learned behavior by these dogs here. I 283 00:15:53,120 --> 00:15:55,400 Speaker 1: mean when there's a treat involved. I guess that's where 284 00:15:55,440 --> 00:15:58,400 Speaker 1: the operant conditioning comes in, right, if there's an immediate 285 00:15:58,400 --> 00:16:00,800 Speaker 1: food reward. Again that you know, dogs can learn all 286 00:16:00,880 --> 00:16:05,000 Speaker 1: kinds of things. All right, here's one that comes to 287 00:16:05,080 --> 00:16:12,320 Speaker 1: us from Albert. Albert says, Hi, Robert and Joe in 288 00:16:12,360 --> 00:16:15,320 Speaker 1: part two, I think you asked for any throwing mythology. 289 00:16:15,680 --> 00:16:18,080 Speaker 1: I was surprised you did not remember the throw anything 290 00:16:18,120 --> 00:16:20,640 Speaker 1: at balder party, where believing nothing can hurt him, all 291 00:16:20,680 --> 00:16:23,360 Speaker 1: the Norse gods amused themselves by shooting and throwing all 292 00:16:23,400 --> 00:16:27,280 Speaker 1: manner of things at balder. Of course, Loki finds out 293 00:16:27,360 --> 00:16:31,240 Speaker 1: that the lowly missiletoe did not swear to not hurt Balder, 294 00:16:31,840 --> 00:16:35,720 Speaker 1: and thus blind Huther is tricked into hurling a missiletoe 295 00:16:35,760 --> 00:16:40,560 Speaker 1: at Balder, killing him. That is a really mean trick, Loki. Yeah, no, 296 00:16:40,800 --> 00:16:43,760 Speaker 1: you know it's this thing. In part three, you mentioned 297 00:16:43,760 --> 00:16:46,880 Speaker 1: the suggestion that mothers cradled their babies with their left arm, 298 00:16:46,920 --> 00:16:49,320 Speaker 1: which is closer to the heart. But this is a 299 00:16:49,400 --> 00:16:53,120 Speaker 1: chicken and egg question. Did mothers cradle their babies therefore 300 00:16:53,160 --> 00:16:56,160 Speaker 1: the right arm became dominant to do all manners of work, 301 00:16:56,240 --> 00:16:59,160 Speaker 1: concluding throwing to defend themselves. Or did mothers cradle their 302 00:16:59,160 --> 00:17:02,000 Speaker 1: babies because they were right handed and wanted their dominant 303 00:17:02,080 --> 00:17:04,679 Speaker 1: arm free for labor and defense. Thanks and keep up 304 00:17:04,680 --> 00:17:08,119 Speaker 1: the great work, Albert. Well, Albert, thanks for the email. 305 00:17:08,200 --> 00:17:11,439 Speaker 1: First to your second point about that hypothesis from I 306 00:17:11,480 --> 00:17:15,080 Speaker 1: think the researcher was William Calvin, who suggested that maybe 307 00:17:16,040 --> 00:17:20,080 Speaker 1: right hand lateralization for throwing evolved because mothers would be 308 00:17:20,160 --> 00:17:22,280 Speaker 1: holding an infant in the left arm while trying to 309 00:17:22,320 --> 00:17:25,880 Speaker 1: throw with the right. Again, any hypothesis like that that's 310 00:17:25,920 --> 00:17:28,600 Speaker 1: like very specific about how things like that evolved. It's 311 00:17:28,600 --> 00:17:32,040 Speaker 1: really hard to prove something that specific is actually what happened, 312 00:17:32,040 --> 00:17:34,120 Speaker 1: So it's this is just sort of like a guess 313 00:17:34,160 --> 00:17:37,080 Speaker 1: sort of to play with in your mind. But I 314 00:17:37,080 --> 00:17:41,240 Speaker 1: think at least Calvin's argument for why the cradling in 315 00:17:41,359 --> 00:17:43,600 Speaker 1: the left arm went first and the throwing in the 316 00:17:43,680 --> 00:17:46,760 Speaker 1: right hand developed after that is because of the initial 317 00:17:46,920 --> 00:17:51,439 Speaker 1: starting fact that there is an asymmetrical placement of the 318 00:17:51,480 --> 00:17:54,400 Speaker 1: heart in the chest. So, according to that story, would 319 00:17:54,440 --> 00:17:56,480 Speaker 1: be that the babies were on the left side because 320 00:17:56,520 --> 00:17:58,800 Speaker 1: they wanted to be closer to the soothing sound of 321 00:17:58,840 --> 00:18:02,760 Speaker 1: the heartbeat, and then the right hand lateralization for throwing 322 00:18:02,760 --> 00:18:04,960 Speaker 1: could develop from there rather than it being the other 323 00:18:04,960 --> 00:18:08,960 Speaker 1: way around. Yeah, that's fascinating. Um. Now on the on 324 00:18:09,000 --> 00:18:11,680 Speaker 1: the mythology, uh point, I know we didn't. I don't 325 00:18:11,680 --> 00:18:15,800 Speaker 1: think we really did an exhaustive search for myth about throwing, 326 00:18:15,880 --> 00:18:19,480 Speaker 1: but but certainly anymore out there, keep them, keep them coming. Um. 327 00:18:19,560 --> 00:18:23,239 Speaker 1: I did a little looking around after this email came in, 328 00:18:23,359 --> 00:18:25,440 Speaker 1: and uh, I did run across something that I wasn't 329 00:18:25,480 --> 00:18:29,640 Speaker 1: familiar with. And that's um this bit from ancient Greek 330 00:18:29,640 --> 00:18:33,280 Speaker 1: tradition where chunking an apple at someone could be considered 331 00:18:33,320 --> 00:18:38,440 Speaker 1: a seduction ploy, though not a marriage proposal, as some 332 00:18:38,680 --> 00:18:43,280 Speaker 1: memes and uh sort of online factoids would seem to insist. Uh. 333 00:18:43,280 --> 00:18:46,520 Speaker 1: There's an excellent blog post about this on Tales of 334 00:18:46,560 --> 00:18:49,520 Speaker 1: Times Forgotten by Spencer McDaniel. I believe it was the 335 00:18:49,560 --> 00:18:54,080 Speaker 1: twenty nineteen blog post about chunking apples that your beloved. Uh, 336 00:18:54,480 --> 00:18:56,760 Speaker 1: So go check that out if you're at all interested 337 00:18:56,760 --> 00:19:00,960 Speaker 1: in this, but also don't throw apples at people that 338 00:19:01,080 --> 00:19:05,320 Speaker 1: you're romantically interested in. Leave that to the past. Maybe 339 00:19:05,320 --> 00:19:08,399 Speaker 1: throw apple sauce. You know that's not gonna hurt anything. No, 340 00:19:08,600 --> 00:19:11,480 Speaker 1: I don't think that's bad. I mean, maybe that's less dangerous, 341 00:19:11,520 --> 00:19:14,960 Speaker 1: but don't the apple sauce. But it does. It kind 342 00:19:14,960 --> 00:19:17,840 Speaker 1: of comes back to that that sort of cliche moment 343 00:19:17,920 --> 00:19:20,800 Speaker 1: often from cinema that we did reference about throwing of 344 00:19:20,840 --> 00:19:23,920 Speaker 1: the pebbles at the windows. So I don't know, Uh, 345 00:19:24,520 --> 00:19:27,479 Speaker 1: we didn't look into this, but I wonder how like 346 00:19:27,600 --> 00:19:31,199 Speaker 1: throwing things factors into the history of human courtship. There 347 00:19:31,200 --> 00:19:34,080 Speaker 1: are other interesting traditions out there than involved like trying 348 00:19:34,080 --> 00:19:36,680 Speaker 1: to peg somebody with a with a rock or a 349 00:19:36,720 --> 00:19:45,080 Speaker 1: pebble or a fruit. Okay, finally here we're gonna do 350 00:19:45,280 --> 00:19:48,200 Speaker 1: a message about Weird House Cinema. This is from Lawrence, 351 00:19:48,280 --> 00:19:52,800 Speaker 1: subject line Scanners slash danger Man. Hey, guys, I was 352 00:19:52,840 --> 00:19:56,200 Speaker 1: listening to your Weird House Cinema episode on scanners, and 353 00:19:56,240 --> 00:19:58,240 Speaker 1: I was struck to hear one of you briefly trying 354 00:19:58,280 --> 00:20:01,320 Speaker 1: to explain danger man to the other. I don't know 355 00:20:01,359 --> 00:20:03,920 Speaker 1: if this is any help, but here goes. Danger Man 356 00:20:04,000 --> 00:20:06,159 Speaker 1: was a British TV series that was shown in the 357 00:20:06,280 --> 00:20:10,760 Speaker 1: US under the alternate title Secret Agent. It's theme song, 358 00:20:11,040 --> 00:20:14,080 Speaker 1: Secret Agent Man was a top forties hit in the 359 00:20:14,160 --> 00:20:16,480 Speaker 1: US in the sixties and seventies. Oh yeah, I know 360 00:20:16,560 --> 00:20:20,960 Speaker 1: that one. Uh. It starred Patrick McGowan as the titular 361 00:20:21,040 --> 00:20:24,959 Speaker 1: Secret Agent or I suppose the titular Danger Man, John Drake. 362 00:20:25,440 --> 00:20:29,400 Speaker 1: Danger Man inspired the iconic seventeen episode series The Prisoner, 363 00:20:29,520 --> 00:20:33,000 Speaker 1: which is was a sort of sequel to it. This 364 00:20:33,080 --> 00:20:36,040 Speaker 1: gets me thinking, it's not cinema strictly speaking, but maybe 365 00:20:36,040 --> 00:20:38,800 Speaker 1: you could bend the rule of it. The Prisoner would 366 00:20:38,800 --> 00:20:42,040 Speaker 1: make for a great episode of weird House Cinema. Thanks 367 00:20:42,040 --> 00:20:46,399 Speaker 1: for the episode, Lawrence. Yeah this, um um, this, this 368 00:20:46,480 --> 00:20:50,240 Speaker 1: was actually something I wasn't really all that um clued 369 00:20:50,280 --> 00:20:53,600 Speaker 1: into previously. Like I knew the song Secret Agent Man, 370 00:20:53,920 --> 00:20:58,160 Speaker 1: and I knew the TV series that we know as 371 00:20:58,240 --> 00:21:02,080 Speaker 1: Secret Agent Man in the US, but I really wasn't 372 00:21:02,119 --> 00:21:04,240 Speaker 1: aware of the whole connection to Danger Man and that 373 00:21:04,359 --> 00:21:07,360 Speaker 1: Danger Man was Secret Agent Man except in the original 374 00:21:07,880 --> 00:21:11,479 Speaker 1: UK broadcast and then as as I was looking it up. 375 00:21:11,520 --> 00:21:14,159 Speaker 1: This this a little more complicated too, because there was 376 00:21:14,240 --> 00:21:18,399 Speaker 1: also a year two thousand TV series on up n 377 00:21:18,920 --> 00:21:22,040 Speaker 1: uh titled Secret Agent Man that used a trip hop 378 00:21:22,080 --> 00:21:25,520 Speaker 1: cover of the Johnny Rivers hit Secret Agent Man, the 379 00:21:25,800 --> 00:21:28,080 Speaker 1: song that we're talking about as its theme song. But 380 00:21:28,240 --> 00:21:30,480 Speaker 1: that show had nothing to do with Danger Man or 381 00:21:30,480 --> 00:21:34,200 Speaker 1: the Prisoner just used the same theme song. I gotta 382 00:21:34,240 --> 00:21:37,320 Speaker 1: look that up. Um oh I did. I'm not sure 383 00:21:37,359 --> 00:21:41,440 Speaker 1: that there's much worth seeking out in this up n 384 00:21:41,520 --> 00:21:44,679 Speaker 1: show from from two thousand. Oh no, I mean the 385 00:21:44,720 --> 00:21:47,000 Speaker 1: cover of Secret Agent Oh yeah, No, I mean the 386 00:21:47,000 --> 00:21:49,320 Speaker 1: cover might be pretty good trip hop cover of Secret 387 00:21:49,359 --> 00:21:51,560 Speaker 1: Agent Man. Anyway, the lead actor in it was in 388 00:21:51,600 --> 00:21:54,840 Speaker 1: a bunch of Saw movies, so if you're a big 389 00:21:54,880 --> 00:21:57,040 Speaker 1: Saw fan, then you know it might be of interest. 390 00:21:57,680 --> 00:21:59,760 Speaker 1: Was the Prisoner of the TV show that had a 391 00:22:00,280 --> 00:22:03,000 Speaker 1: had like a killer ball, like a bouncy ball that 392 00:22:03,040 --> 00:22:06,080 Speaker 1: would attack that big bouncy ball that. I have to 393 00:22:06,119 --> 00:22:08,440 Speaker 1: admit The Prisoner as a show that I never did 394 00:22:08,480 --> 00:22:11,080 Speaker 1: a dedicated viewing of. It would come on I think 395 00:22:11,119 --> 00:22:14,879 Speaker 1: on any like you know, in the afternoons sometimes and 396 00:22:14,920 --> 00:22:17,080 Speaker 1: I would I would watch an episode or part of 397 00:22:17,080 --> 00:22:20,320 Speaker 1: an episode, But I don't think it's a series that 398 00:22:20,440 --> 00:22:23,680 Speaker 1: really lends itself to that sort of viewing. I think 399 00:22:23,720 --> 00:22:25,280 Speaker 1: you really have to get in there and watch it, 400 00:22:25,320 --> 00:22:27,760 Speaker 1: and I never did. Yeah, if if we ever break 401 00:22:27,840 --> 00:22:29,840 Speaker 1: the TV barrier, I could be into checking that out. 402 00:22:29,840 --> 00:22:32,800 Speaker 1: We've done made for TV movies. Yeah yeah, oh in 403 00:22:32,880 --> 00:22:35,680 Speaker 1: this picture from Patrick McGowan looks kind of like Roy 404 00:22:35,800 --> 00:22:39,440 Speaker 1: Schier in this one shot. Anyways, Should we wrap it 405 00:22:39,520 --> 00:22:42,720 Speaker 1: up there for today? I believe so. We'll go ahead 406 00:22:42,720 --> 00:22:44,439 Speaker 1: and close the mail back, but we have much more 407 00:22:44,520 --> 00:22:46,760 Speaker 1: to discuss and to read, so we'll be back next Monday. 408 00:22:47,240 --> 00:22:50,199 Speaker 1: So uh, certainly keep the messages coming. If you have 409 00:22:50,280 --> 00:22:54,480 Speaker 1: thoughts on past episodes, president episodes, future episodes right in, 410 00:22:54,600 --> 00:22:57,000 Speaker 1: we'd love to hear from you, you know, responses to 411 00:22:57,080 --> 00:22:59,280 Speaker 1: core episodes of Stuff to Blow Your Mind, which publish 412 00:22:59,359 --> 00:23:02,840 Speaker 1: on two days and Thursdays, um, other listener mail episodes 413 00:23:02,880 --> 00:23:06,600 Speaker 1: on Monday's, episodes of The Monster Fact or Artifact on Wednesdays, 414 00:23:06,680 --> 00:23:09,800 Speaker 1: or of course episodes of Weird House Cinema which published 415 00:23:09,800 --> 00:23:11,920 Speaker 1: on Fridays. I always love to hear from folks who 416 00:23:12,320 --> 00:23:15,399 Speaker 1: uh you know, solve these films in the theater or 417 00:23:15,520 --> 00:23:21,560 Speaker 1: on some past medium. Uh. We always like to hear 418 00:23:21,560 --> 00:23:24,360 Speaker 1: from folks, So whatever the topic happens to be right 419 00:23:24,400 --> 00:23:27,200 Speaker 1: in and uh, perhaps we'll read your message on a 420 00:23:27,240 --> 00:23:30,200 Speaker 1: future episode of Listener Mail Big thanks to our audio 421 00:23:30,240 --> 00:23:32,960 Speaker 1: producer J J. Paseway. If you would like to get 422 00:23:32,960 --> 00:23:35,080 Speaker 1: in touch with us with feedback on this episode or 423 00:23:35,080 --> 00:23:37,240 Speaker 1: any other, to suggest a topic for the future, or 424 00:23:37,320 --> 00:23:40,040 Speaker 1: just to say hello, you can email us at contact 425 00:23:40,080 --> 00:23:49,960 Speaker 1: at stuff to Blow your Mind dot com. Stuff to 426 00:23:49,960 --> 00:23:52,119 Speaker 1: Blow Your Mind is a production of I heart Radio. 427 00:23:52,440 --> 00:23:55,359 Speaker 1: For more podcasts my heart Radio, visit the iHeart Radio app, 428 00:23:55,520 --> 00:23:58,280 Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.