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Speaker 1: Hi, I'm Molly John Fast and this is Fast Politics,

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Speaker 1: where we discussed the top political headlines with some of

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Speaker 1: today's best minds, and Iran has struck back with missiles

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Speaker 1: heading into Tel Aviv. We have a great show for

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Speaker 1: you today to the Contrary Newsletters author or Trolley Psych

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Speaker 1: stops by to talk to us about the escalation of

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Speaker 1: Trump's actions from Trump one point zero to Trump two

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Speaker 1: point zero, the sequel authoritarianism. Then we'll talk to Ed

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Speaker 1: Luce about his new book, Ziebig, The Life of Zobignieff Brazinski,

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Speaker 1: America's Great Power Profit. But first the news.

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Speaker 2: Molly, You're going to be shocked to hear this, but

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Speaker 2: Trump really feels like picking a fight with the courts

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Speaker 2: when it comes to some of these immigrants because they

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Speaker 2: know that there are achilles heels that will make these

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Speaker 2: policies he ran on fall and they're refusing to release

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Speaker 2: Bubbu Khalil despite the judge.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, who could have seen this coming? Oh? I know everyone, Look,

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Speaker 1: this is so much absolutely not what we want to see,

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Speaker 1: not what anyone wants to see. If the Biden administration

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Speaker 1: had a student that they had kidnapped and we're keeping

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Speaker 1: because he had been whatever. They can't even cook up

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Speaker 1: a reason to have him detained. This is real authoritarian

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Speaker 1: stuff and they don't want to release him. And I'm

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Speaker 1: going to bring I'm going to just read a quote here. Okay.

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Speaker 1: The government is using all its tools available to delay justice,

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Speaker 1: says Brett Kaufman, it's senior counsel at the ACLU. The

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Speaker 1: government practically never holds people in detention on a charge

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Speaker 1: like this, and it's clear that the government is doing

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Speaker 1: anything they can to punish my mood for his speech.

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Speaker 1: We will not stop until he's home with his family,

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Speaker 1: so I think, and you know, the administration is not

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Speaker 1: responding to the courts. It's missing it's deadlines. I mean,

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Speaker 1: this is the kind of stuff where this is like

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Speaker 1: the slow rolling authoritarianism. Right. They're just doing things like

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Speaker 1: they're ignoring the law, they're ignoring the courts, they're breaking

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Speaker 1: the rules, they're doing the kind of stuff that you

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Speaker 1: do when you're an authoritarian. And it's not okay. And

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Speaker 1: it's why people are going to hit the streets tomorrow

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Speaker 1: in a peaceful way for the No Kings protest. And

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Speaker 1: when you're listening to this podcast, there are going to

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Speaker 1: be protests all over this country, and they're going to

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Speaker 1: be protests for Donald Trump to know that he is

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Speaker 1: not a king, that he is an elected president and

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Speaker 1: he there are checks to his power. And just because

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Speaker 1: Congress doesn't take its job seriously, the rest of us

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Speaker 1: very much do. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: So, RFK, you'll be shocked to hear said Congress medical

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Speaker 2: disinformation to defend his co vaccine schedule change. And just

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Speaker 2: the same way he lied about who he was going

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Speaker 2: to reappoint for the vaccine panel.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, remember when when RFK Junior said he was not

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Speaker 1: going to fire anyone and he was not going to

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Speaker 1: go after vaccines. By the way, what has he done.

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Speaker 1: He's gone after vaccines. By the way, the most dangerous

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Speaker 1: time to get COVID is when you're pregnant or your elderly.

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Speaker 1: And we know from living through COVID in real time

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Speaker 1: that pregnant women get affected by COVID in just a

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Speaker 1: significantly more profound way than non pregnant people women. And

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Speaker 1: so this is just a completely crazy thing to do.

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Speaker 1: And what it's going to mean is, you know, it's

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Speaker 1: just crazy. So basically this is the story. RFK Junior

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Speaker 1: decides to change the US policy on COVID vaccines because

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Speaker 1: remember this guy got in office because of COVID right

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Speaker 1: people could not process this once in a lifetime pandemic.

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Speaker 1: Trump was able to get these RFK anti vaxxers. They

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Speaker 1: supported him, and now he's letting RFK just completely destroy

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Speaker 1: our healthcare in this system. So basically, this doctor at

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Speaker 1: Baylor said, it's so far out of left field, it's

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Speaker 1: insulting to members of Congress that they would actually give

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Speaker 1: them something like this. They're relying on these agencies to

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Speaker 1: provide them with valid information, and the agencies are providing

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Speaker 1: them with laws. He has been making announcements on x

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Speaker 1: and also in the Wall Street Journal editorial page when

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Speaker 1: he announced that he fired all the doctors. You're not

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Speaker 1: going to be able to trust the information. I mean,

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Speaker 1: this is what we're seeing already, is the information that

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Speaker 1: comes out of this government is no longer trustworthy. And

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Speaker 1: that means that we are really able to rely on

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Speaker 1: the federal government for less and less. And I have

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Speaker 1: to say, like as someone who we all pay a

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Speaker 1: lot of taxes here and it's it's just hard for

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Speaker 1: me to understand why states like California are going to

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Speaker 1: put in their federal taxes if they're not getting federal services. Right,

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Speaker 1: Like Trump is going to get rid of FEMA, right,

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Speaker 1: He's saying he's going to get rid of FEMA. He's

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Speaker 1: saying he's going to get rid of food saved, all

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Speaker 1: sorts of things that the federal government does. And I

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Speaker 1: don't think that Trump understands that, Like, there's no reason

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Speaker 1: for California to pay in on taxes. Federalism exists because

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Speaker 1: the federal government provides services. You get rid of those services,

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Speaker 1: and all of a sudden you have states that maybe

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Speaker 1: don't want to pay into the federal government. And that

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Speaker 1: means that those the other states, the Red States, the Alabamas.

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Speaker 1: You know, you separate California out of America, the country

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Speaker 1: really gets broke real fast. So I think Trump is

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Speaker 1: playing a dangerous game here.

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Speaker 2: Agreed. So at Appeals Court has temporarily allowed Trump to

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Speaker 2: keep the National Guard in LA after the first court

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Speaker 2: said that he had to relinquish control to Gavin Newsom.

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Speaker 2: This seems like this is another one of the very

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Speaker 2: big wars that's going to happen, but is not getting

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Speaker 2: paid attention to you. With all the breaking news out

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Speaker 2: of Israel today.

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Speaker 1: We see this right. Trump has tried to federalize the

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Speaker 1: California National Guard. It was you know, Mayor Garland on

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Speaker 1: the Fifth Circuit said no, you can't do that. Now

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Speaker 1: the Appeals Court is saying, maybe you can. This will

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Speaker 1: undoubtedly go up to the Supreme Court. My guess is

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Speaker 1: that the Supreme Court will say you can't do this.

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Speaker 1: And my guess is it'll be five to four the

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Speaker 1: three liberals, Roberts and Amy Coney. My guess is the

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Speaker 1: other Trumpet justices will be like our mango God can

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Speaker 1: can do anything. But I do think, like Roberts, understands

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Speaker 1: just how insane it is to have a president federalizing

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Speaker 1: the National Guard, you know, taking over another state's national

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Speaker 1: Guard because of some fake, fake protests, you know, I

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Speaker 1: mean they're not fake, but it's a mile of protests,

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Speaker 1: square mile protes and Trump is using them and trying

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Speaker 1: to exploit them to connect with his base, which you know,

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Speaker 1: there's not a need for the federal Guard in California,

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Speaker 1: which is what the governor and the mayor keep saying.

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Speaker 1: So I think that the Supreme Court, I think they're

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Speaker 1: luckily there are five pretty sane. I mean, I don't

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Speaker 1: agree with Justice Amy, but I think she's probably going

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Speaker 1: to be right on this. Charlie Sikes is the author

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Speaker 1: of the two The Contrary Newsletter and the book How

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Speaker 1: the Right Lost Its Mind. Welcome Too Fast Politics, Charlie Sikes.

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Speaker 3: It's good to be here, It's good to be anywhere

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Speaker 3: this week.

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Speaker 1: Ah so it is like again, like Trump one point zero,

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Speaker 1: just a complete flurry of news to the point of

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Speaker 1: every story is moving so fast and furious. But I

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Speaker 1: think we should first talk about Alex Padilla, the Senator

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Speaker 1: from California who went to a Christy Nome presser and

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Speaker 1: wanted to ask a question and got pounced on by

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Speaker 1: a bunch of her goons.

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Speaker 3: For lack of a better word, yeah, I mean, look,

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Speaker 3: you know, let's cut through some of the bullshit. You know,

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Speaker 3: try to imagine Ron Johnson being, you know, wrestled to

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Speaker 3: the ground in Wisconsin, or Ted Cruz being wrestled to

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Speaker 3: the ground in Texas, or Lindsey Graham shows up at

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Speaker 3: an event and he is is handcuffed in South Carolina. Okay,

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Speaker 3: try to imagine that. Okay, me neither. I can't do it.

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Speaker 3: I just can't. So that's where where I would urge

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Speaker 3: people to have the bullshit meter for all the people explaining, well, okay,

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Speaker 3: he wasn't wearing his secret service pin, like no one

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Speaker 3: recognized the United States senator from California. In California, nobody

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Speaker 3: knew Christy Nome and he her entourage didn't notice what

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Speaker 3: was was happening here. I mean, and I said this,

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Speaker 3: you know, in my newsletter. You know, as outrageous as

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Speaker 3: it was the way he was treated, I think what

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Speaker 3: was much worse was the reaction, because you could certainly imagine,

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Speaker 3: you know, in a rational, decent universe, people would say,

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Speaker 3: if Healing made a mistake, really sorry, you know, Senator Padilla,

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Speaker 3: let's you know, let's find a way to disagree civilly.

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Speaker 3: But they didn't. They doubled down, and frankly, if you

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Speaker 3: look at maga, you know, Maga social media, they are

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Speaker 3: loving this. And I think the Trump that the Trump folks,

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Speaker 3: the Maga folks, I mean, they get a kick out

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Speaker 3: of this sort of thing and expect more of it,

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Speaker 3: and they're grooming themselves. I mean, they're they're grooming the

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Speaker 3: base to expect and ask for more of this. So

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Speaker 3: the fact that we got the gas lighting, the hypocrisy,

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Speaker 3: the lying, that's bad enough, but the fact is that

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Speaker 3: they are actively now celebrating it, and you can just

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Speaker 3: see they're all two messent about it. We humiliated in

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Speaker 3: an Hispanic US senator.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, no, I think that's absolutely right. And it

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Speaker 1: does feel like there is a bottomless appetite for this

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Speaker 1: kind of authoritarianism.

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Speaker 4: You know, they like this.

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Speaker 3: I mean, people need under well and you know, right

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Speaker 3: wing media I'm talking about the fever swamp media is

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Speaker 3: pushing for more aggressive, you know, harder enforcement of the law.

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Speaker 3: And quite frankly, this is tapping into Donald Trump's it.

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Speaker 3: You want to talk about the week of the Ugly American,

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Speaker 3: the ugly American, he has loose troops on American streets

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Speaker 3: and the rhetoric that he's using. You know that if

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Speaker 3: protesters come out, you know, during my big beautiful military parade,

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Speaker 3: we're going to hit them very hard, making no distinction

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Speaker 3: between violent and non violent protests. So again, it is

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Speaker 3: Trump and full I could I disagree with one thing

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Speaker 3: that you said, though you said it's just like Trump

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Speaker 3: one point zero.

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Speaker 1: We're having that.

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Speaker 3: This Trump one point zero feels like a kind of gentler,

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Speaker 3: more innocent time for sure, compared to we haven't because

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Speaker 3: everything now, frankly seems a bit existential in what Trump

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Speaker 3: is doing. It is it is as if all the

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Speaker 3: masks have been just ripped off and there's there's no pretense,

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Speaker 3: and we're going to see this sort of red Square,

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Speaker 3: you know, demonstration in Washington, d C. But by the way,

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Speaker 3: Saturday is going to be lits. It's gonna be that's

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Speaker 3: gonna talk about a news day wow. Yeah, yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 3: So let's talk about I'll be giving a talk at

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Speaker 3: a book festival in Nantucket. So you know your your

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Speaker 3: New York Times best selling book.

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Speaker 1: I'm guessing yes, but I mean, but it is it's

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Speaker 1: very hard for me to multitask. But I want to

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Speaker 1: talk about so this is going on, we are seeing images.

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Speaker 1: I want to talk about an image that I saw

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Speaker 1: two days ago, which was worker field workers, right fruit

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Speaker 1: pickers in California being chased down by ice agents and cars.

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Speaker 1: So let's talk about that this is a job Americans

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Speaker 1: don't want. They won't take it right. It's the reason

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Speaker 1: that they are hiring people to do this job is

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Speaker 1: because it's a job no one wants. It was so

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Speaker 1: incredibly disturbing and Craven I want to connect that to

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Speaker 1: the Trump truth quote unquote where he said people are

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Speaker 1: complaining to me they're losing their people. So talk about that.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, that was an interesting walkback, wasn't it. You can

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Speaker 3: tell that obviously had somebody from the agriculture industry who

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Speaker 3: was having drinks or dinner at Margo Lago and said, hey,

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Speaker 3: you know, this is kind of hard to run all

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Speaker 3: of our farms. By the way, I knew this here

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Speaker 3: in Wisconsin that the dairy farmers were never into mass deportation.

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Speaker 3: They understood all of this. So it gives you some

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Speaker 3: sense of how policy is made in this administration. I'm

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Speaker 3: trying to imagine how the Stephen Millers of the world

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Speaker 3: would have reacted to anyone else saying what Donald Trump said.

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Speaker 3: You know, we have these good people who are working

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Speaker 3: hard here, you know, and in the farms. We have

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Speaker 3: to leave them alone. We're just going after the criminals.

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Speaker 3: I mean, this this thing is really a shit show.

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Speaker 3: And I think that you really, you really saw that.

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Speaker 3: And by the way, though, the thing about the enforcement

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Speaker 3: of you know, the immigration law, is that I know

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Speaker 3: it's gotten a lot of attention, but I just it

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Speaker 3: was just before he came On here reading a story

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Speaker 3: by Katherine Rampell in the Washington Post about the ICE

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Speaker 3: agents who are basically have become secret police. They refuse

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Speaker 3: to identify themselves. They're wearing masks. They're going around, you know, arresting, detaining,

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Speaker 3: you know, brown people, and you know, to live in

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Speaker 3: a society in which you asked for a cop to

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Speaker 3: show his badge or his ID and they refuse and

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Speaker 3: they're wearing masks. Right now, if you're an immigrant or

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Speaker 3: you're a non immigrant and somebody comes to your house

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Speaker 3: and is arresting people, how do you know who they are?

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Speaker 3: I mean, it is a dangerous, dangerous, ugly situation.

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Speaker 1: And there's actually reporting of a story of a woman

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Speaker 1: who got where he said he was an ICE agent

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Speaker 1: and it turned out he was just a random guy

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Speaker 1: and stole his as knowlargs from I mean, there's a

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Speaker 1: reason that we have police marked like this. I mean,

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Speaker 1: what I think is so interesting is like, you know,

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Speaker 1: when Elon was running our federal government. You'll remember that

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Speaker 1: from season one. Yeah, it was really like season three,

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Speaker 1: right or season five, I don't know whatever. We're in

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Speaker 1: In this nightmare, he learned a lot of things about

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Speaker 1: the federal government in real time right like what it did.

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Speaker 1: It feels like we're learning why police are identified, why,

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Speaker 1: you know, like Trump is learning these sort of things

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Speaker 1: that we had, you know that you could have asked

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Speaker 1: anyone in the world and would have told you.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I know. Maybe it is interesting watching the learning

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Speaker 3: curve of all of these guys. You just kind of

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Speaker 3: hope that, you know, as as Donald Trump actually learns

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Speaker 3: how things work, that we don't have that moment where

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Speaker 3: he goes, what happens if I pushed this button? Oh,

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Speaker 3: I wasn't supposed to.

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Speaker 1: I don't know.

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Speaker 3: Hey, by the way, we're talking about Senator Piddie, I

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Speaker 3: forgot the most fucked up part of that story. Yeah, okay, yeah,

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Speaker 3: the Corey Yeah, yes, yes, the fact is okay. So

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Speaker 3: there's nothing wrong. And there's a videotape of the one

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Speaker 3: guy that realized how bad it was the way they

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Speaker 3: were treating is Corey Lewing Dawski. Corey no pacifist, not

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Speaker 3: at all, but apparently traveled around with Christy Nomes. Still,

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Speaker 3: I did not even know that that was a thing.

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Speaker 3: So he runs down the hall and says, let him go,

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Speaker 3: let him go. So how fucked up was it? That

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Speaker 3: even Corey fucking Lewindowski knew it was fucked up. I

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Speaker 3: need to make a bumpy shuck up. Yeah, yeah, I

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Speaker 3: would say, so.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yes, that's true. And so let's talk cause and effect.

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Speaker 1: Trump is at least the polling I've seen, and there

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Speaker 1: are some other rest mutant polls that showed Trump is

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Speaker 1: the greatest North Korean president ever. But the regular polls

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Speaker 1: that I've seen show him to have the highest disapproval

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Speaker 1: rating that he's ever had, sixty percent.

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Speaker 4: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: No, I mean, look, there's a lot of things that

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Speaker 3: he's doing that I think they are appealing to his base.

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Speaker 3: I mean, you watch what he's doing, and if let

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Speaker 3: me reverse engineer, if you look at the wooliest Harry's

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Speaker 3: corners of right wing social media, you can predict what

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Speaker 3: the administration is going to do next. I mean read

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Speaker 3: Steven mess to do it right, right. But this is

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Speaker 3: not what Middle America swing voters I think we're looking

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Speaker 3: for now. I don't know how the polling is going

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Speaker 3: to play on Los Angeles. I've tried to prepare people

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Speaker 3: for the fact that, you know, Americans might actually react

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Speaker 3: to the you know, burning cars and the Mexican flags

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Speaker 3: and say, we will like what Trump is doing. But

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Speaker 3: I just I'm I've got a new mantra right now

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Speaker 3: that I don't care whether he's winning. Okay, it's not

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Speaker 3: a winning losing thing. Sometimes it's just right and wrong.

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Speaker 3: And so let's say in fact that he does get

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Speaker 3: the upper hand on his use of the military. I

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Speaker 3: don't think he is. I think it's a losing issue

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Speaker 3: for him. But let's just say that he is. It

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Speaker 3: doesn't matter because there is something about losing causes that

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Speaker 3: have always appealed to me. And if democracy in did

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Speaker 3: right up the rule of LAWND and and all that,

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Speaker 3: if that's a losing because I don't care, let's let's

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Speaker 3: let's draw the r. I'm well, as.

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Speaker 1: We're talking about this, I'm going to read you a

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Speaker 1: new Reuters IPSOS poll. Thirty five percent of adults approve

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Speaker 1: of Trump's response to la the thirty five fifty percent

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Speaker 1: disapproved by a plus nine adults say that the president

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Speaker 1: has gone too far with the arrest event.

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Speaker 2: Interesting.

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Speaker 1: So, and that's from g Elliott Morris, who's a very

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Speaker 1: smart pollster and ran five thirty eight and knows of

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Speaker 1: what he speaks. So I do think that ultimately this

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Speaker 1: is a.

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Speaker 3: Loser for well, we'll see. I mean, you know, we're

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Speaker 3: living in a news cycle right now where things are

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Speaker 3: happening very very very quickly. You know, you have one incident,

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Speaker 3: do you have one can state like incident with you know,

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Speaker 3: shooting protesters or the other way around. Uh So on this,

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Speaker 3: I just I do think that it's very very important.

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Speaker 3: Two things, very very important. I think for Democrats we're

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Speaker 3: critical of and those of us are critical of Donald Trump,

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Speaker 3: to make it very clear that that we are not

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Speaker 3: defending a rationalizing violence in any way whatsoever. The protest

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Speaker 3: massive and they should be peaceful, peaceful and impact.

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Speaker 1: Violence undermines the message.

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Speaker 3: It's a gift to Donald Trump. I'm just trying to imagine,

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Speaker 3: for example, you know, watching the protests over the weekend

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Speaker 3: with masses of American flags and maybe don't tread on

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Speaker 3: me flags, and then watch the way law enforcement reacts

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Speaker 3: to that. Make it hard on that, make it hard

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Speaker 3: on Trump. Don't make it easy on Trump.

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Speaker 1: Yes, flags, definitely American flags, I think, And don't tread

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Speaker 1: on me that snake, that ridiculous snake. I think it's

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Speaker 1: very good. So Donald Trump got played this week too,

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Speaker 1: And I want to talk about that, because it seems

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Speaker 1: like there's quite a lot of spin coming out of

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Speaker 1: this White House about Israel and Trump's relationship, Trump's great,

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Speaker 1: great relationship with Israel. This is on the heels of

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Speaker 1: Trump's Trump's Trump's great, great relationship with Bottomer Putin. But

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Speaker 1: with times he.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, talk to me, No, I I agree with you.

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Speaker 3: In fact, it is interesting how many people are buying

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Speaker 3: this spin that you know, the US was really you know,

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Speaker 3: joined at the hip with with Israel, and they were

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Speaker 3: they were using this misdirection. It was kind of secret

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Speaker 3: and we and we misled everybody. That really does seem

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Speaker 3: like it's kind of retrofitting onto what we actually know

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Speaker 3: that the Trump was caught flat footed. You saw the

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Speaker 3: statement from Mark Rubio. Once again, you find a lot

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Speaker 3: of these guys who kind of under look, you know,

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Speaker 3: who understands Taco that you know that Trump Trump always

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Speaker 3: chickens out. Yeah, I'm sorry, I'm sorry you could your

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Speaker 3: chickens out. You know, understands Taco. Vledimer Putin understands it. President,

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Speaker 3: she understands it, and he, yeah, who understands it? And

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Speaker 3: so I think you are seeing that play out right now.

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Speaker 3: But there's kind of a flop sweat around Trump saying

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Speaker 3: we were part of that too. Really, really we were

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Speaker 3: part of that. Hey, could I join the club?

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Speaker 1: No?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, he looked weak and in impotent and really out

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Speaker 3: of step. Plus I want now, the world is an

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Speaker 3: incredibly dangerous place at a time when we have you know,

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Speaker 3: a costplaying you know, idiot like Peter Hexath in charge

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Speaker 3: of the Department of Defense. So it is a very

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Speaker 3: very dangerous time and probably one of the worst times

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Speaker 3: to be staging a stupid parade and using American troops

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Speaker 3: on American city streets.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. I think that's right. And I just want to

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Speaker 1: go back to the Marco Rubio tweet. So Marco said

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Speaker 1: he had it with most This administration and subsequent administrations

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Speaker 1: have been very careful with their language around Israel, saying

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Speaker 1: they support them basically no matter what. And in this tweet,

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Speaker 1: Marco sort of says, you know, we weren't really involved

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Speaker 1: in this in a way that makes it clear that

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Speaker 1: this was them playing along by themselves. And then Trump

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Speaker 1: comes in and says, no, no, I knew all about this.

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Speaker 3: No, but it is interesting that I feel like we've

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Speaker 3: been talking about Israel bombing Iran to destroy its nuclear

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Speaker 3: capabilities for the last twenty five years now, and again

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Speaker 3: it's hard to have a really solid opinion on this

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Speaker 3: because we're in the fog of war. We don't know

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Speaker 3: what was accomplished. And well, I mean, at the end

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Speaker 3: of this process, will will Iran be capable of developing

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Speaker 3: a nuclear weapon or not? There are all kinds of

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Speaker 3: things that can go wrong when you're bombing nuclear facilities.

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Speaker 3: So again, first, you know, the first tranch looks like

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Speaker 3: a successful military operation, in fact, rather stunningly successful for

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Speaker 3: the Israelis, but again two days from now, who knows.

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Speaker 3: I mean, that's it. There's so much uncertainty out there,

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Speaker 3: and this is exactly the moment when you want solid thing,

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Speaker 3: reasonable people in charge.

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Speaker 1: Unfortunately, not a Fox News host, Yeah, but I do

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Speaker 1: think for reality TV host as president. Yeah, but it is. Yes,

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Speaker 1: So I just want to just add it's not really

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Speaker 1: a fact check, but net NYA who has now been

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Speaker 1: saying for thirty three years that Ron was getting a nuke,

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Speaker 1: it seems like a lot of years.

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Speaker 3: Well something was going on. I mean, one of the

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Speaker 3: interesting questions will be why, now, why did they do this?

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Speaker 3: Was it because there was intelligence they were nearing a

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Speaker 3: bomb or is it because somebody wanted, you know, wanted

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Speaker 3: a distraction. We just don't know. Benjamin Netanyahu now has

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Speaker 3: opened a multi front war again. Maybe he has the

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Speaker 3: resources to be able to pursue this, but this doesn't

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Speaker 3: feel like it's going to be the slap fight of

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Speaker 3: the first time that they that they exchange missile. Remember

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Speaker 3: the first time Iran basically said we're going to retaliate

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Speaker 3: and then they sent those slow moving missiles all the

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Speaker 3: way across which were easily shot down. That had kind

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Speaker 3: of a Kabookie Dan's feel to it. I am guessing

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Speaker 3: that this will not be like that at all.

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Speaker 1: Well, and I also think it's important to remember that

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Speaker 1: this is you know, Natanya who really wants to stay

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Speaker 1: in power, right and he works from a very similar

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Speaker 1: playbook to Donald Trump, and so this getting in war

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Speaker 1: is a good way to stay in power.

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Speaker 3: Well, I mean, these are all the questions that you have.

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Speaker 3: You know, normally, I'll be honest with you, I would

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Speaker 3: normally have given the Israelis the benefit of the doubt,

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Speaker 3: except for Benjamin Natanyahu for exactly the reasons that you said.

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Speaker 3: But again, we're going to see how the rest of

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Speaker 3: the Mid East reacts, how the world economy reacts to

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Speaker 3: all of this, whether or not you know what the

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Speaker 3: level of you know, damages to Israel. I mean, this

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Speaker 3: is this is the potential for a major war. I

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Speaker 3: mean it's yeah.

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Speaker 1: And so far we're seeing oil prices spike, so that

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Speaker 1: is and again, I just want to get back to this.

432
00:24:08,800 --> 00:24:12,840
Speaker 1: Trump's central thesis when he ran for president was that

433
00:24:13,040 --> 00:24:16,000
Speaker 1: this second time he said these things, right, that what

434
00:24:16,119 --> 00:24:19,760
Speaker 1: we knew were lies, but we couldn't. Necessarily people didn't,

435
00:24:19,960 --> 00:24:22,920
Speaker 1: you know, they weren't. People wanted to believe. He said,

436
00:24:22,960 --> 00:24:25,840
Speaker 1: I'm going to make things cheaper, right, I'm going to

437
00:24:26,000 --> 00:24:29,800
Speaker 1: you know, groceries gas, right, I'm going to make it cheaper,

438
00:24:30,280 --> 00:24:34,840
Speaker 1: and I'm going to end forever wars. So that seems

439
00:24:34,920 --> 00:24:37,040
Speaker 1: like neither of those things are happening.

440
00:24:37,520 --> 00:24:39,760
Speaker 3: Well, you know again, both those things now are on

441
00:24:39,840 --> 00:24:42,720
Speaker 3: the bubble. And you you know, the polls that you

442
00:24:42,760 --> 00:24:45,320
Speaker 3: are citing, which which suggests that he's below forty percent

443
00:24:45,359 --> 00:24:49,520
Speaker 3: on approval ratings, would suggest that it's not working. Now again,

444
00:24:50,119 --> 00:24:53,240
Speaker 3: I am I am really struck by the way when

445
00:24:53,240 --> 00:24:56,359
Speaker 3: you're eu roytous poll is very, very interesting because Donald

446
00:24:56,400 --> 00:24:58,960
Speaker 3: Trump in the White House and with sitting in the

447
00:24:59,000 --> 00:25:02,120
Speaker 3: Oval Office with Stephen Miller, is absolutely convinced that things

448
00:25:02,240 --> 00:25:04,720
Speaker 3: like what's happening in Los Angeles are winners for him,

449
00:25:04,960 --> 00:25:08,040
Speaker 3: that they take away from the losers. Yeah, I mean,

450
00:25:08,080 --> 00:25:10,280
Speaker 3: you know, you think you think about like about a

451
00:25:10,280 --> 00:25:12,000
Speaker 3: week and a half ago, there was the Night of

452
00:25:12,040 --> 00:25:16,359
Speaker 3: the Bright Shiny Objects, when the Elon Musk thing was

453
00:25:16,359 --> 00:25:18,520
Speaker 3: was the big story, and that that was there was

454
00:25:18,520 --> 00:25:20,000
Speaker 3: that fight, and it looked like he was about to

455
00:25:20,000 --> 00:25:22,879
Speaker 3: cave into China on terrace. So he dropped all of

456
00:25:22,920 --> 00:25:26,320
Speaker 3: these things all at once. Remember he dropped an order

457
00:25:26,359 --> 00:25:29,640
Speaker 3: on a travel band and everything. Then of course they

458
00:25:29,640 --> 00:25:33,520
Speaker 3: followed by los An Well, these are all things that

459
00:25:33,520 --> 00:25:36,359
Speaker 3: that he thinks are like in his wheelhouse, that he

460
00:25:36,440 --> 00:25:38,720
Speaker 3: really thinks this is the red meat, and it is

461
00:25:38,840 --> 00:25:42,920
Speaker 3: red meat for his base. But you know, I think

462
00:25:42,960 --> 00:25:45,320
Speaker 3: that Steven Miller has talked him into thinking, you know,

463
00:25:45,440 --> 00:25:48,280
Speaker 3: the more cruelty, the more brutality, the better it is

464
00:25:48,359 --> 00:25:51,280
Speaker 3: for you. That may turn out to be one of

465
00:25:51,320 --> 00:25:54,919
Speaker 3: the great miss miscalculations, which by the way, would go

466
00:25:55,359 --> 00:25:58,439
Speaker 3: a bit, actually a long way to restoring my faith

467
00:25:59,000 --> 00:26:01,800
Speaker 3: in the American people. If they look at this and go,

468
00:26:02,080 --> 00:26:05,719
Speaker 3: I'm sorry, No, we think this is fucked up. We

469
00:26:05,800 --> 00:26:09,440
Speaker 3: have retained enough dignity and enough perspective that we are

470
00:26:09,560 --> 00:26:11,960
Speaker 3: not going along with this sort of thing that it's

471
00:26:12,040 --> 00:26:14,040
Speaker 3: not going to be nineteen seventy all over again.

472
00:26:15,119 --> 00:26:17,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I think that's a real question. I do think,

473
00:26:18,040 --> 00:26:22,119
Speaker 1: you know. I just read this incredible William F. Buckley

474
00:26:22,160 --> 00:26:26,960
Speaker 1: biography by Sam tennant House, which I recommend highly. Yeah,

475
00:26:27,000 --> 00:26:28,880
Speaker 1: because I'm traveling, I'm having the best time.

476
00:26:28,880 --> 00:26:29,520
Speaker 4: I'm just reading.

477
00:26:29,520 --> 00:26:31,560
Speaker 1: But you know, I don't have to mean it's just me,

478
00:26:31,760 --> 00:26:34,520
Speaker 1: So I'm just reading books and going up. Yeah. Well,

479
00:26:34,520 --> 00:26:37,000
Speaker 1: I'm a little confused. I go to the wrong I

480
00:26:37,320 --> 00:26:39,359
Speaker 1: go to the wrong place, and I miss the plane.

481
00:26:39,400 --> 00:26:42,720
Speaker 1: But I'm good. But I read this incredible William F.

482
00:26:42,760 --> 00:26:46,840
Speaker 1: Buckley biography, and in it, tenant House talked about how

483
00:26:47,359 --> 00:26:52,119
Speaker 1: how much the country really has changed, and that pushback

484
00:26:52,119 --> 00:26:57,120
Speaker 1: in the seventies, these cultural shifts, these you know, these backlashes.

485
00:26:57,640 --> 00:26:59,879
Speaker 1: They they sort of you know, you two steps forward,

486
00:27:00,040 --> 00:27:02,640
Speaker 1: one step back. So I don't know that you can

487
00:27:02,720 --> 00:27:04,800
Speaker 1: do back to the nineteen fifties.

488
00:27:05,280 --> 00:27:08,320
Speaker 3: Yeah, no, I you were never going back to the

489
00:27:08,400 --> 00:27:11,960
Speaker 3: nineteen fifties. But a lot of these guys you can see,

490
00:27:12,040 --> 00:27:15,560
Speaker 3: are are thinking that are thinking in previous decades, you know,

491
00:27:15,880 --> 00:27:18,879
Speaker 3: how how did hey, how did the public react to

492
00:27:19,000 --> 00:27:22,200
Speaker 3: uses of force and strength? But again, this is this

493
00:27:22,280 --> 00:27:26,160
Speaker 3: is really very very close to the essence of trump

494
00:27:26,320 --> 00:27:30,800
Speaker 3: Ism right now, which is strength versus weakness, brutality being

495
00:27:30,960 --> 00:27:35,560
Speaker 3: a sign of manliness. There's a reason why Christy Nome

496
00:27:35,600 --> 00:27:38,160
Speaker 3: has become the ice Barbie. And we all we sort

497
00:27:38,160 --> 00:27:39,760
Speaker 3: of made fun of her, you know about the whole

498
00:27:39,800 --> 00:27:41,600
Speaker 3: shooting her puppy in the face, but they shooting the

499
00:27:41,600 --> 00:27:43,800
Speaker 3: puppy in the face story was written as part of

500
00:27:43,800 --> 00:27:46,399
Speaker 3: a resume to get a job in this administration. She

501
00:27:46,480 --> 00:27:49,000
Speaker 3: got the job that she wanted in this administration, and

502
00:27:49,040 --> 00:27:52,679
Speaker 3: it's turning out to be just as deplorable and stupid

503
00:27:52,720 --> 00:27:55,959
Speaker 3: as we thought she would be. But again, they feast

504
00:27:56,080 --> 00:27:58,119
Speaker 3: on all of this. So I think the thing to

505
00:27:58,240 --> 00:28:04,200
Speaker 3: keep watching for always is hubrious, the arrogance of hubris

506
00:28:04,240 --> 00:28:07,960
Speaker 3: and going too far. You know, this is an administration

507
00:28:08,560 --> 00:28:11,199
Speaker 3: that honestly believes it has all the cards that it

508
00:28:11,280 --> 00:28:14,239
Speaker 3: is immune what could possibly go wrong? And by the way,

509
00:28:14,320 --> 00:28:17,720
Speaker 3: one thing we haven't talked about was that in the

510
00:28:17,800 --> 00:28:22,640
Speaker 3: run up to the big beautiful military parade. You also

511
00:28:22,680 --> 00:28:25,720
Speaker 3: had that appearance at Fort Bragg where clearly I think

512
00:28:25,720 --> 00:28:29,360
Speaker 3: that Donald Trump is doing two things. He's by deploying

513
00:28:29,400 --> 00:28:32,040
Speaker 3: the troop, he's trying to desensitize Americans to the use

514
00:28:32,040 --> 00:28:36,560
Speaker 3: of military force. But he's also right now hoping, I think,

515
00:28:36,600 --> 00:28:40,640
Speaker 3: to radicalize the US military and the security apparatus in

516
00:28:40,640 --> 00:28:47,760
Speaker 3: this country, radicalize the troops, grooming them to be instruments

517
00:28:47,760 --> 00:28:51,280
Speaker 3: of MAGA. So you put all of those things in

518
00:28:51,360 --> 00:28:55,080
Speaker 3: a line, and it is deeply dangerous and ominous. And look,

519
00:28:55,120 --> 00:28:57,200
Speaker 3: I agree with you that I mean Trump. I'm still

520
00:28:57,280 --> 00:28:59,440
Speaker 3: you know, I have PTSD from Trump one point zero.

521
00:29:00,040 --> 00:29:05,600
Speaker 3: But Trump, you know, always had guardrails. And you know, yeah,

522
00:29:05,640 --> 00:29:08,600
Speaker 3: when he wanted to shoot protesters, you know, you had

523
00:29:08,720 --> 00:29:11,120
Speaker 3: you know, the Secretary of Defense, Mark Esper in the room.

524
00:29:11,160 --> 00:29:13,160
Speaker 3: You had Mark Milly, the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs

525
00:29:13,160 --> 00:29:15,200
Speaker 3: of Step in the room. You even had Bill Barr,

526
00:29:15,280 --> 00:29:17,719
Speaker 3: the Attorney General, saying you can't do that, mister president.

527
00:29:18,480 --> 00:29:21,000
Speaker 3: There is no one around Donald Trump who's going to

528
00:29:21,080 --> 00:29:21,600
Speaker 3: tell him no.

529
00:29:21,720 --> 00:29:22,440
Speaker 4: This time around.

530
00:29:23,520 --> 00:29:28,719
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's right, That's exactly right. Charlie Sikes, thank you

531
00:29:28,800 --> 00:29:29,760
Speaker 1: for joining.

532
00:29:29,440 --> 00:29:33,440
Speaker 3: US thank you. New York Times best selling author of

533
00:29:33,520 --> 00:29:34,920
Speaker 3: Mullay John Fast.

534
00:29:37,920 --> 00:29:43,440
Speaker 1: Ed Luce is the Financial Times Chief US commentator and

535
00:29:43,480 --> 00:29:47,920
Speaker 1: the author of Zie Big, The Life of Zybignief Brazinski,

536
00:29:48,360 --> 00:29:52,720
Speaker 1: America's Great Power profit. Welcome to Fast Politics, Ed Loose.

537
00:29:53,400 --> 00:29:56,680
Speaker 4: Such a pleasure to be with you, Marley always Okay, Ed, so.

538
00:29:56,680 --> 00:29:58,800
Speaker 1: You have a book, talk to me about this book,

539
00:29:58,920 --> 00:30:00,920
Speaker 1: and then we have many other things to discussed.

540
00:30:01,080 --> 00:30:04,480
Speaker 4: Okay. This is a biography of Big Brashinski. You know,

541
00:30:04,560 --> 00:30:08,080
Speaker 4: Henry Kissinger's great rival in the Cold War and afterwards,

542
00:30:08,520 --> 00:30:11,160
Speaker 4: and there's never been a full life biography of him,

543
00:30:11,160 --> 00:30:14,280
Speaker 4: and his life is really quite cinematic, you know, from

544
00:30:14,360 --> 00:30:18,080
Speaker 4: from inter War Poland to Washington and the heights he

545
00:30:18,200 --> 00:30:22,720
Speaker 4: scaled here. And I was given the diaries he kept

546
00:30:22,760 --> 00:30:27,320
Speaker 4: as National security advisor to Jimmy Carter, extraordinary troves of letters,

547
00:30:27,360 --> 00:30:30,560
Speaker 4: correspondence with Pope John pulsecond. And when you start sort

548
00:30:30,560 --> 00:30:34,560
Speaker 4: of going through this primary material others haven't had access to,

549
00:30:34,880 --> 00:30:37,080
Speaker 4: your excitement mounts. And the more you find out, the

550
00:30:37,080 --> 00:30:39,239
Speaker 4: more you you want to find out. So it's just

551
00:30:39,360 --> 00:30:41,840
Speaker 4: it's a work of It's the most exciting project I've

552
00:30:41,880 --> 00:30:44,680
Speaker 4: ever worked on. It's certainly the biggest, the biggest I

553
00:30:44,720 --> 00:30:45,520
Speaker 4: should say.

554
00:30:45,440 --> 00:30:47,920
Speaker 1: Do you think the world would be better off had

555
00:30:47,960 --> 00:30:52,320
Speaker 1: Brazinsky been the lead? Is Brazinski's worldview a little bit

556
00:30:52,520 --> 00:30:53,560
Speaker 1: better worldview?

557
00:30:54,040 --> 00:30:57,520
Speaker 4: He was oddly known as a hawk when he worked

558
00:30:57,520 --> 00:31:00,960
Speaker 4: for Carter, but as very much a dove. He sort

559
00:31:00,960 --> 00:31:03,640
Speaker 4: of redeemed himself with the liberal wing and the Democratic

560
00:31:03,680 --> 00:31:08,040
Speaker 4: Party after nine to eleven, and particularly his criticisms of

561
00:31:08,080 --> 00:31:11,080
Speaker 4: Iraq War and his endorsement a few years later of

562
00:31:11,200 --> 00:31:14,280
Speaker 4: Obama for the same reasons, because Obama had opposed the

563
00:31:14,400 --> 00:31:17,480
Speaker 4: right war. But during the seventies he and Kissinger had

564
00:31:17,520 --> 00:31:21,240
Speaker 4: utterly different views of how to confront the Soviet Union

565
00:31:21,440 --> 00:31:24,840
Speaker 4: in the Cold War, and I would say that Razhinski

566
00:31:25,200 --> 00:31:27,000
Speaker 4: gets the better of that argument. I mean, he was

567
00:31:27,040 --> 00:31:29,960
Speaker 4: a Soviet toller. He was this great Harvard scholar, as

568
00:31:30,120 --> 00:31:33,400
Speaker 4: was Kissinger. Then became a Columbia scholar, and he predicted

569
00:31:33,440 --> 00:31:35,680
Speaker 4: the Soviet Union was going to unravel, it was going

570
00:31:35,720 --> 00:31:39,000
Speaker 4: to collapse of its own weight. It was Moriband, you know,

571
00:31:39,120 --> 00:31:41,960
Speaker 4: run by old man had this thing which he called

572
00:31:42,000 --> 00:31:45,520
Speaker 4: reverse natural selection, where it only promoted the least innovative,

573
00:31:45,720 --> 00:31:49,360
Speaker 4: least creative people. And Kissinger thought the USSR was a

574
00:31:49,360 --> 00:31:51,760
Speaker 4: permanent feature of the landscape. So I think the way

575
00:31:51,880 --> 00:31:55,160
Speaker 4: Rashinsky put his scholarship to work in trying to sort

576
00:31:55,200 --> 00:31:59,600
Speaker 4: of help peacefully unravel the Soviet Empire was pretty impressive,

577
00:31:59,640 --> 00:32:01,560
Speaker 4: and I think I think on the Cold War he's

578
00:32:01,600 --> 00:32:05,160
Speaker 4: a more effective figure than Kissinger. Kissinger was a lot funnier,

579
00:32:05,160 --> 00:32:07,480
Speaker 4: but he was a lot less principled, right.

580
00:32:07,400 --> 00:32:10,600
Speaker 1: That's sort of his thing. What are the lessons that

581
00:32:10,640 --> 00:32:14,080
Speaker 1: we can learn from that period? It was a lot

582
00:32:14,360 --> 00:32:17,920
Speaker 1: of sort of unmaking and making on the foreign stage.

583
00:32:17,960 --> 00:32:20,400
Speaker 1: What are the lessons we can learn right now that

584
00:32:20,560 --> 00:32:23,240
Speaker 1: could connect to where we are right now?

585
00:32:23,400 --> 00:32:25,600
Speaker 4: Well, I would say that, you know, we are living

586
00:32:25,720 --> 00:32:30,160
Speaker 4: today in that sort of revenge of geopolitics era. It's

587
00:32:30,200 --> 00:32:32,800
Speaker 4: a more complicated era because this is, you know, a

588
00:32:32,880 --> 00:32:36,480
Speaker 4: multipolar world of many great powers, not just the two

589
00:32:36,880 --> 00:32:39,800
Speaker 4: superpowers you had facing each other off in the Cold War.

590
00:32:40,480 --> 00:32:43,080
Speaker 4: But what we had I think in between was a

591
00:32:43,080 --> 00:32:45,280
Speaker 4: little bit of a holiday from history. I mean, one

592
00:32:45,280 --> 00:32:48,360
Speaker 4: of the great things about Brazhinsky and to be fair,

593
00:32:48,440 --> 00:32:52,760
Speaker 4: Kissinger was they were steeped in knowledge of the world

594
00:32:52,880 --> 00:32:55,160
Speaker 4: that they were sort of trying to shape, and the

595
00:32:55,280 --> 00:32:58,720
Speaker 4: languages Brazinski spoke fluent Russian. Right now, I think with

596
00:32:58,840 --> 00:33:01,320
Speaker 4: the Trump administration, we have, you know, to put it

597
00:33:01,400 --> 00:33:04,440
Speaker 4: very politely, an a strategic worldview, which is a posh

598
00:33:04,480 --> 00:33:07,360
Speaker 4: word for stupid. And I don't think we've got too

599
00:33:07,360 --> 00:33:12,400
Speaker 4: many Chinese speakers around or curiosity or scholarship or expertise

600
00:33:12,520 --> 00:33:15,440
Speaker 4: on the world outside. So we've got this guy who's

601
00:33:15,600 --> 00:33:18,040
Speaker 4: trumpoo sees the world as a jungle, and you know,

602
00:33:18,080 --> 00:33:20,560
Speaker 4: there are predators, and there are a prey, and if

603
00:33:20,560 --> 00:33:22,960
Speaker 4: you dress like an antelope and walk like an antelope,

604
00:33:23,000 --> 00:33:25,520
Speaker 4: he's going to eat you. And if Putin does the

605
00:33:25,560 --> 00:33:29,360
Speaker 4: same in his sphere of interest, Russia's backyard, and China

606
00:33:29,400 --> 00:33:31,920
Speaker 4: does in its own backyard, that's all fine with Trump.

607
00:33:32,080 --> 00:33:35,720
Speaker 4: That's how big predators operate. And really the Brashinski world view,

608
00:33:36,160 --> 00:33:38,240
Speaker 4: and they had a lot of the same problems. Iran,

609
00:33:38,320 --> 00:33:42,200
Speaker 4: of course, was cartis undoing, the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan,

610
00:33:42,560 --> 00:33:47,800
Speaker 4: the non invasion of Poland, suppression of Ukrainian activism. Then

611
00:33:48,280 --> 00:33:51,360
Speaker 4: a lot of these same problems, you know, are with us,

612
00:33:51,400 --> 00:33:54,680
Speaker 4: but we don't seem to have that burning curiosity and

613
00:33:55,120 --> 00:33:58,640
Speaker 4: therefore the sort of strategic thoughts, whether you agree with

614
00:33:58,680 --> 00:34:02,440
Speaker 4: them or not that come from knowledge and burning curiosity.

615
00:34:02,720 --> 00:34:06,720
Speaker 1: Let's talk about there we are right now in an

616
00:34:06,760 --> 00:34:10,359
Speaker 1: American life. There is this trade war with China that

617
00:34:10,680 --> 00:34:14,279
Speaker 1: is likely not to go away. So you know, there's

618
00:34:14,320 --> 00:34:17,000
Speaker 1: been backing down and backing up. But I would love

619
00:34:17,040 --> 00:34:19,839
Speaker 1: you to give me this sort of your sense of

620
00:34:19,920 --> 00:34:23,400
Speaker 1: how to balance this uncertainty, well, the.

621
00:34:23,440 --> 00:34:27,000
Speaker 4: Achina war trade war. I mean, there's a poem nursing

622
00:34:27,120 --> 00:34:29,359
Speaker 4: rhyme in English about the grand old Duke of York

623
00:34:29,360 --> 00:34:31,680
Speaker 4: who marched his men to the top of the hill

624
00:34:31,719 --> 00:34:34,640
Speaker 4: and marched them down again. And what Trump has done

625
00:34:34,640 --> 00:34:37,799
Speaker 4: with tariffs is a great folding. I mean, he escalated

626
00:34:37,880 --> 00:34:43,040
Speaker 4: to a peak very rapidly after quotation marks Liberation Day April.

627
00:34:43,600 --> 00:34:47,160
Speaker 4: And you know, on the basis lifelong held belief that

628
00:34:47,280 --> 00:34:50,000
Speaker 4: trade wars are easy to win, he has discovered they're

629
00:34:50,040 --> 00:34:52,520
Speaker 4: not easy to win, and so he's marched his troops

630
00:34:52,560 --> 00:34:54,919
Speaker 4: down to the bottom of the hill again. So now

631
00:34:54,960 --> 00:34:59,480
Speaker 4: we have market relief, a market rally, restoring some of

632
00:34:59,480 --> 00:35:03,520
Speaker 4: the losses that Trump you know, inflicted self inflicted on

633
00:35:03,880 --> 00:35:07,520
Speaker 4: the US bond market as well as the equity market.

634
00:35:07,840 --> 00:35:11,880
Speaker 4: But the world's trust and I'm including here America's friends

635
00:35:11,880 --> 00:35:13,960
Speaker 4: as well as its enemies, who Trump has kind of

636
00:35:14,040 --> 00:35:18,600
Speaker 4: driven together, which is posit of strategy. There's a trust

637
00:35:18,640 --> 00:35:21,279
Speaker 4: factor here, or rather a mistrust factor. If you do

638
00:35:21,400 --> 00:35:23,759
Speaker 4: a deal with Trump, how long does it last? One week,

639
00:35:23,840 --> 00:35:25,319
Speaker 4: one year? Who knows?

640
00:35:25,680 --> 00:35:28,320
Speaker 1: That is the thing that I think is so striking.

641
00:35:28,600 --> 00:35:31,920
Speaker 1: And again, so much of what's happened in the Trump's

642
00:35:32,040 --> 00:35:39,080
Speaker 1: second administration is benefited from the destruction that it already

643
00:35:39,120 --> 00:35:44,240
Speaker 1: engaged in the Trump's first administration. But I just wonder

644
00:35:44,640 --> 00:35:48,520
Speaker 1: when you look at this question of trust. During Trump's

645
00:35:48,520 --> 00:35:51,640
Speaker 1: first administration, the world did the same thing, right, They

646
00:35:51,760 --> 00:35:56,000
Speaker 1: pulled away, They got together and made deals that didn't

647
00:35:56,000 --> 00:36:00,279
Speaker 1: include us because Trump was so a rational and could

648
00:36:00,280 --> 00:36:02,200
Speaker 1: make a deal with him. But tomorrow will be out.

649
00:36:02,360 --> 00:36:05,200
Speaker 1: He seems both a little more rational than he did

650
00:36:05,320 --> 00:36:07,920
Speaker 1: last time, but also a lot more in bolder.

651
00:36:08,200 --> 00:36:10,240
Speaker 4: I would agree that he's I mean, I think Trump

652
00:36:10,239 --> 00:36:13,080
Speaker 4: two point zero is trump Ism squared. We had a

653
00:36:13,160 --> 00:36:17,360
Speaker 4: dress rehearsal in his first administration, but he was surrounded

654
00:36:17,400 --> 00:36:21,600
Speaker 4: by people who muffled or blocked his worst instincts. Now

655
00:36:21,600 --> 00:36:24,520
Speaker 4: he's surrounded by people who amplify them. So that's a

656
00:36:24,640 --> 00:36:30,400
Speaker 4: very different situation. He's in office after the most improbable campaign,

657
00:36:30,560 --> 00:36:34,440
Speaker 4: following an attempt to overturn an election, I mean, a

658
00:36:34,560 --> 00:36:39,719
Speaker 4: clear strike at the US Constitution, at the republic, and

659
00:36:39,800 --> 00:36:42,320
Speaker 4: he managed to get elected anyway. So you can understand

660
00:36:42,320 --> 00:36:45,000
Speaker 4: why he's walking on air. At least in his own head,

661
00:36:45,040 --> 00:36:49,960
Speaker 4: he thinks he's indestructible. And so America's partners, whether they're

662
00:36:50,000 --> 00:36:54,360
Speaker 4: you know, adversaries or friends across the Atlantic. Canada in particular,

663
00:36:55,080 --> 00:36:58,520
Speaker 4: I mean, are experiencing Trump a lot worse than they

664
00:36:58,520 --> 00:37:00,759
Speaker 4: did first time round. I mean, remember, I remember first

665
00:37:00,760 --> 00:37:04,920
Speaker 4: time round he did arm twist Canada and Mexico to renegotiate,

666
00:37:04,960 --> 00:37:08,600
Speaker 4: and after as as MAACA as they called it, the

667
00:37:08,640 --> 00:37:11,040
Speaker 4: first thing he did on trade after he was inaugurated.

668
00:37:11,080 --> 00:37:15,080
Speaker 4: This time round was declared the renegotiated and after his

669
00:37:15,200 --> 00:37:19,680
Speaker 4: deal to be a terrible deal. Of me, what's the

670
00:37:19,719 --> 00:37:20,919
Speaker 4: point of breaking a deal?

671
00:37:21,040 --> 00:37:23,440
Speaker 1: When you look at where we are as a country

672
00:37:23,520 --> 00:37:26,440
Speaker 1: right now, do you see like a world where we

673
00:37:26,480 --> 00:37:28,719
Speaker 1: were turned to normalcy after this?

674
00:37:29,320 --> 00:37:32,279
Speaker 4: It's really difficult to picture, and I'm not sure. I'm

675
00:37:32,320 --> 00:37:35,279
Speaker 4: not sure how I would define normalcy anymore, you know,

676
00:37:35,280 --> 00:37:38,640
Speaker 4: because I think the Democratic Party is untouched by this.

677
00:37:38,760 --> 00:37:41,560
Speaker 4: It has to adjust, it has to change quite radically,

678
00:37:41,640 --> 00:37:44,360
Speaker 4: and I don't see signs of that at the moment.

679
00:37:44,520 --> 00:37:47,759
Speaker 4: I mean, I appreciate that this system doesn't, you know,

680
00:37:47,840 --> 00:37:50,680
Speaker 4: provide as a parliamentary system does a leader of the

681
00:37:50,680 --> 00:37:53,680
Speaker 4: opposition and a government in waiting. It is a different system,

682
00:37:53,760 --> 00:37:57,040
Speaker 4: So it is more difficult to frame a response of

683
00:37:57,160 --> 00:38:00,680
Speaker 4: resistance to what's going on. But there are really urgent

684
00:38:00,800 --> 00:38:04,640
Speaker 4: challenges here that you know, don't just rely on. It

685
00:38:04,640 --> 00:38:07,840
Speaker 4: seems to me that Chuck Schumer and others have one strategy,

686
00:38:08,160 --> 00:38:11,080
Speaker 4: which is just you wait until the midterms. And I'm

687
00:38:11,080 --> 00:38:13,360
Speaker 4: not confident, you know, this will be the same republic

688
00:38:13,600 --> 00:38:15,239
Speaker 4: by November twenty twenty six.

689
00:38:15,840 --> 00:38:19,239
Speaker 1: Yeah, I've not either. I'll volunteer my thinking here too,

690
00:38:19,239 --> 00:38:21,200
Speaker 1: because this is an important question. But like, what do

691
00:38:21,280 --> 00:38:25,400
Speaker 1: you think is the most important thing your person listeners

692
00:38:25,560 --> 00:38:28,920
Speaker 1: podcast being super freaked out? What do you think is

693
00:38:28,920 --> 00:38:32,120
Speaker 1: the most important sort of pro democracy thing that normal

694
00:38:32,120 --> 00:38:32,799
Speaker 1: people can do?

695
00:38:33,440 --> 00:38:37,000
Speaker 4: They can I think, respond to leaders. There are too

696
00:38:37,000 --> 00:38:39,960
Speaker 4: many around, but there are people like Chris Murphy, I

697
00:38:39,960 --> 00:38:43,480
Speaker 4: think JB. Pritzka, AOC. I think these people have shown

698
00:38:43,600 --> 00:38:47,200
Speaker 4: sort of courage and principle and they can reward those

699
00:38:47,280 --> 00:38:49,719
Speaker 4: who are showing that. I don't think it's a particularly

700
00:38:50,239 --> 00:38:53,920
Speaker 4: impressive act nowadays to sign up to Kevin Newsom's podcast.

701
00:38:54,360 --> 00:38:57,360
Speaker 4: Let's put it that way. This sounds like sort of

702
00:38:57,560 --> 00:39:01,560
Speaker 4: weak tea, because the truth is, leadership has to come from,

703
00:39:01,600 --> 00:39:03,919
Speaker 4: you know, people who are capable of leading, and then

704
00:39:03,960 --> 00:39:07,160
Speaker 4: we will respond. We sort of talking of But there

705
00:39:07,160 --> 00:39:10,720
Speaker 4: are tons of the political equivalent of what JFK calls

706
00:39:10,920 --> 00:39:14,760
Speaker 4: numberless small acts of kindness. There are numberless small acts

707
00:39:14,800 --> 00:39:19,840
Speaker 4: of resistance, solidarity, pressuring, you know, companies that are bending

708
00:39:19,840 --> 00:39:22,799
Speaker 4: the need to Trump punishing them. I mean, just pull

709
00:39:22,840 --> 00:39:26,760
Speaker 4: the cord on whichever platforms are bribing Trump. It's extraordinary

710
00:39:26,840 --> 00:39:29,160
Speaker 4: the sorts of money that he's heaving.

711
00:39:29,520 --> 00:39:32,600
Speaker 1: I do feel like there has been quite a bit,

712
00:39:32,760 --> 00:39:35,120
Speaker 1: and I think there'll be a lot more pushback, and

713
00:39:35,160 --> 00:39:37,920
Speaker 1: you do see I mean they're losing in the courts.

714
00:39:38,120 --> 00:39:40,000
Speaker 1: Those things do give me a live phole.

715
00:39:40,480 --> 00:39:43,239
Speaker 4: I would agree with that. I think today, which is

716
00:39:43,280 --> 00:39:47,080
Speaker 4: what mid May compared to a mid April, I'm a

717
00:39:47,120 --> 00:39:50,120
Speaker 4: lot less pessimistic. I'm certainly not optimistic, but I'm a

718
00:39:50,120 --> 00:39:55,480
Speaker 4: lot less pessimistic about civil society, about people's awareness you know,

719
00:39:55,560 --> 00:39:58,600
Speaker 4: this has been a crash course, this is an ongoing

720
00:39:58,719 --> 00:40:04,359
Speaker 4: teachable moment and so people's society's response is evolving. So

721
00:40:04,520 --> 00:40:06,920
Speaker 4: I mean, you're right, and the courts have thrown a

722
00:40:06,920 --> 00:40:11,280
Speaker 4: lot more grit into the wheels than you might have imagined. Nevertheless, yes,

723
00:40:11,440 --> 00:40:13,600
Speaker 4: we're going to get to Supreme Court rulings, you know.

724
00:40:13,760 --> 00:40:18,440
Speaker 4: And Stephen Miller, Steve Bannon, who I actually did an

725
00:40:18,520 --> 00:40:22,319
Speaker 4: on stage interview with the Weekend, a very tough, contentious

726
00:40:22,360 --> 00:40:25,560
Speaker 4: interview as you might imagine at the Kennedy Center, which

727
00:40:25,600 --> 00:40:29,000
Speaker 4: you know, probably will cause me to pee double cancels

728
00:40:29,920 --> 00:40:33,080
Speaker 4: by some of my friends, but it was nevertheless a

729
00:40:33,200 --> 00:40:37,480
Speaker 4: very very revealing exercise. He doubled down on Stephen Miller's

730
00:40:37,560 --> 00:40:41,799
Speaker 4: call for a suspension of habbyiest Corpus. Why what was

731
00:40:41,840 --> 00:40:46,640
Speaker 4: the bullshit excuse that the courts were essentially thwarting the

732
00:40:46,680 --> 00:40:47,680
Speaker 4: will of the people.

733
00:40:47,960 --> 00:40:49,680
Speaker 1: But it's not the will of the people, it's the

734
00:40:49,719 --> 00:40:51,279
Speaker 1: will of the monarch.

735
00:40:51,280 --> 00:40:54,759
Speaker 4: Indeed, But unfortunately that was the lens through which he

736
00:40:54,920 --> 00:40:58,600
Speaker 4: was interpreting democracy, which is this sort of sovereigntist thing

737
00:40:58,960 --> 00:40:59,879
Speaker 4: these Curtis yave.

738
00:41:00,560 --> 00:41:04,200
Speaker 1: But even for Ris Jarvin is not happy, right, and.

739
00:41:04,280 --> 00:41:06,720
Speaker 4: Culter seems to be unhappy. I mean there are different

740
00:41:06,920 --> 00:41:10,480
Speaker 4: Laura Luma seems to be unhappy, very unhappy. Yeah, to

741
00:41:10,520 --> 00:41:13,399
Speaker 4: be unhappy with the sort of theft in broad day well,

742
00:41:13,440 --> 00:41:17,400
Speaker 4: the bribery in broad daylight. But when fanatics are unhappy

743
00:41:17,400 --> 00:41:20,400
Speaker 4: with you, it's not necessarily because you're not being fanatic enough.

744
00:41:20,560 --> 00:41:23,560
Speaker 4: I think it's because you're being incompetently fanatic.

745
00:41:23,840 --> 00:41:26,960
Speaker 1: I tend to skew overly optimistic, which is why I

746
00:41:27,160 --> 00:41:30,640
Speaker 1: try to be mindful of that. But I have to

747
00:41:30,760 --> 00:41:36,040
Speaker 1: wonder if it's possible that this thing that saves us

748
00:41:36,040 --> 00:41:37,480
Speaker 1: all is the incomfidence.

749
00:41:38,040 --> 00:41:41,000
Speaker 4: I would hope. So, but what does Trump do when

750
00:41:41,000 --> 00:41:43,400
Speaker 4: he's really backed into the corner? I fear that he

751
00:41:43,520 --> 00:41:45,800
Speaker 4: will sort of. He's got a tool kid with Project

752
00:41:45,840 --> 00:41:48,600
Speaker 4: twenty twenty five. He has got the likes of Stephan

753
00:41:48,640 --> 00:41:52,120
Speaker 4: Miller and Rick Ridell around him, and these people do

754
00:41:52,200 --> 00:41:54,759
Speaker 4: believe in the suspension of Happiest Corpus. And you know

755
00:41:54,800 --> 00:41:57,560
Speaker 4: I should mention, I asked Bannon if the Supreme Court

756
00:41:57,920 --> 00:42:03,839
Speaker 4: rejected that basically Trump's deportation efforts down or at least

757
00:42:03,840 --> 00:42:06,480
Speaker 4: the ones without due process, so that all of them

758
00:42:06,600 --> 00:42:09,600
Speaker 4: must have due process would you advise Trump to ignore it?

759
00:42:09,640 --> 00:42:13,840
Speaker 4: And balanderclined to answer that what happens in that scenario

760
00:42:14,360 --> 00:42:17,960
Speaker 4: is a tremendously important moment. It's coming at some speed

761
00:42:18,000 --> 00:42:20,760
Speaker 4: or other. That moment will come, as several such moments

762
00:42:20,760 --> 00:42:21,200
Speaker 4: will come.

763
00:42:21,480 --> 00:42:24,320
Speaker 1: It's funny because it's I mean, it's not funny. Actually,

764
00:42:24,360 --> 00:42:27,799
Speaker 1: I mean it's disturbing, but it's funny and strange. It

765
00:42:27,840 --> 00:42:33,719
Speaker 1: does feel as if what Trump is doing is not popular,

766
00:42:34,040 --> 00:42:37,759
Speaker 1: but Trump doesn't really care, right, I mean, that's sort

767
00:42:37,800 --> 00:42:38,439
Speaker 1: of where we are.

768
00:42:38,840 --> 00:42:41,040
Speaker 4: His trip to the Gulf, you know, to Saudi Arabia,

769
00:42:41,080 --> 00:42:45,120
Speaker 4: to Emirates and gutter, and you compare that with the

770
00:42:45,160 --> 00:42:49,880
Speaker 4: America first sort of rhetoric that he's sold to the

771
00:42:49,920 --> 00:42:52,840
Speaker 4: mega base. You know, this is Trump first, This is

772
00:42:52,840 --> 00:42:55,920
Speaker 4: an America first. You know, he takes a jumbo jet

773
00:42:56,040 --> 00:43:01,240
Speaker 4: from Guitar because Boeing is allegedly late on it's delivery. Boeing,

774
00:43:01,600 --> 00:43:04,240
Speaker 4: in spite of recent problems, is one of the great

775
00:43:04,280 --> 00:43:07,520
Speaker 4: sort of corporate icons of the United States. He's choosing Ghata,

776
00:43:07,840 --> 00:43:10,040
Speaker 4: which has played host to Hamas by the way, I

777
00:43:10,080 --> 00:43:13,040
Speaker 4: mean right, of course, find a student on a foreign

778
00:43:13,080 --> 00:43:17,200
Speaker 4: visa who I think mostly with completely false allegations he

779
00:43:17,280 --> 00:43:19,960
Speaker 4: can link or his people can link to Hamas, he

780
00:43:20,040 --> 00:43:23,000
Speaker 4: will cancel their visas and deport them, but he'll accept

781
00:43:23,040 --> 00:43:26,320
Speaker 4: a four hundred million dollar gift from the Emirate Kingdom

782
00:43:26,360 --> 00:43:30,239
Speaker 4: that there's been hosting and funding hamas for many, many years.

783
00:43:30,320 --> 00:43:33,759
Speaker 4: So this is Trump first, and I think that shows

784
00:43:33,960 --> 00:43:36,879
Speaker 4: that you're right. He doesn't really care. It's about him.

785
00:43:37,200 --> 00:43:41,319
Speaker 4: It's about his enrichment, his family's enrichment. The number of

786
00:43:41,360 --> 00:43:43,799
Speaker 4: towers and golf courses that are going up all over

787
00:43:43,840 --> 00:43:48,120
Speaker 4: the Gulf, but also in other countries like Serbia. Eric

788
00:43:48,200 --> 00:43:51,200
Speaker 4: and Donald Jr. Were in Serbia, they were in Belgrade,

789
00:43:51,440 --> 00:43:54,520
Speaker 4: they were in Budapest, in Hungary, Victor Bands Hungri They're

790
00:43:54,560 --> 00:43:58,239
Speaker 4: getting deals in these countries, which, just to tie it

791
00:43:58,320 --> 00:44:02,400
Speaker 4: back with my book Brijin calls the Alliance of the Aggrieved,

792
00:44:02,680 --> 00:44:04,960
Speaker 4: you know, led by China and Russia, but with Iran,

793
00:44:05,000 --> 00:44:07,080
Speaker 4: with North Korea, and with a sort of bunch of

794
00:44:07,080 --> 00:44:09,960
Speaker 4: countries that want to bring the system down, that feel

795
00:44:10,400 --> 00:44:12,280
Speaker 4: like they were on the losing side of the Cold

796
00:44:12,320 --> 00:44:14,640
Speaker 4: War and are now coming back. This is the revenge

797
00:44:14,640 --> 00:44:17,600
Speaker 4: of geopolitics, and Trump is kind of with them. These

798
00:44:17,600 --> 00:44:21,360
Speaker 4: are the people who are enriching Trump. The Prime Minister

799
00:44:21,440 --> 00:44:25,560
Speaker 4: of Canada, Mark Carney, cannot give Trump a jumbo jet.

800
00:44:25,719 --> 00:44:28,120
Speaker 4: He can't pledge a sort of phony l and s

801
00:44:28,200 --> 00:44:30,840
Speaker 4: six hundred billion dollars in America over the next decade,

802
00:44:30,840 --> 00:44:33,160
Speaker 4: because he doesn't have the power to do that, because

803
00:44:33,200 --> 00:44:36,120
Speaker 4: he's the leader of a democracy. There is no distinction

804
00:44:36,200 --> 00:44:39,200
Speaker 4: between public and private. In Saudi Arabia, the country is

805
00:44:39,320 --> 00:44:42,160
Speaker 4: named after its ruling family. There's no such thing as

806
00:44:42,160 --> 00:44:45,520
Speaker 4: a conflict of interest. So these are countries Trump likes.

807
00:44:45,560 --> 00:44:49,120
Speaker 4: It's they operate in the style he wishes to emulate,

808
00:44:49,239 --> 00:44:52,920
Speaker 4: so they have a massive advantage over democracies to be

809
00:44:52,960 --> 00:44:56,880
Speaker 4: able to do deals with him, to get preferential trade terms. Again,

810
00:44:56,920 --> 00:45:00,880
Speaker 4: I have to stress for Trump's benefit, not Americas.

811
00:45:01,080 --> 00:45:03,400
Speaker 1: Yeah, Ed Lewis, I hope you'll come back.

812
00:45:03,840 --> 00:45:05,920
Speaker 4: That's a delight to be with you, Molly. I'd love

813
00:45:05,960 --> 00:45:06,479
Speaker 4: to come back.

814
00:45:09,040 --> 00:45:13,200
Speaker 1: No more, exactly, Jesse Cannon.

815
00:45:13,640 --> 00:45:16,440
Speaker 2: So, Molly, there is a press conference yesterday on the

816
00:45:16,440 --> 00:45:20,600
Speaker 2: space coast of Florida that was bonkers. Now, some people

817
00:45:20,600 --> 00:45:23,480
Speaker 2: who have been paying attention will know that Florida has

818
00:45:23,520 --> 00:45:26,960
Speaker 2: been leading the way and saying that you can't protest anymore.

819
00:45:27,200 --> 00:45:31,520
Speaker 2: And there's been some pushback on this, but this seems

820
00:45:31,560 --> 00:45:33,480
Speaker 2: like one of those moments where it's like, you know,

821
00:45:34,200 --> 00:45:37,640
Speaker 2: we really better start stocking up some acl you lawyers

822
00:45:37,680 --> 00:45:41,160
Speaker 2: down here, because some of this rhetoric was very bad.

823
00:45:41,600 --> 00:45:45,520
Speaker 1: So a Florida sheriff issued a stark message to protesters

824
00:45:45,520 --> 00:45:49,719
Speaker 1: planning to demonstrate this weekend against increasing ice arrests. He's

825
00:45:49,760 --> 00:45:52,000
Speaker 1: a sheriff called ween Ivy.

826
00:45:52,520 --> 00:45:55,799
Speaker 2: I should also say we will kill you dead. Is

827
00:45:55,840 --> 00:45:57,400
Speaker 2: more than a stark message.

828
00:45:57,640 --> 00:46:01,440
Speaker 1: Yes, is throw a breck of fire bomb or point

829
00:46:01,480 --> 00:46:04,520
Speaker 1: a gun, they will be killed. If you block an

830
00:46:04,560 --> 00:46:08,440
Speaker 1: intersection or roadway, you are going to jail. If you

831
00:46:08,719 --> 00:46:12,920
Speaker 1: free arrest, you are going to jail. Tired, because we

832
00:46:13,000 --> 00:46:15,400
Speaker 1: are going to run you down and put you in jail.

833
00:46:15,600 --> 00:46:20,120
Speaker 1: If you try to mob rule a car, gather round it,

834
00:46:20,200 --> 00:46:22,399
Speaker 1: or refuse to let the driver leave, you are most

835
00:46:22,480 --> 00:46:25,359
Speaker 1: likely going to get run over and dragged across the street.

836
00:46:25,440 --> 00:46:29,640
Speaker 1: This reminds me of the sort of white nationalist of

837
00:46:29,680 --> 00:46:38,239
Speaker 1: the nineteen fifties, kind of terrifying Jim Crow South Wallace type.

838
00:46:38,760 --> 00:46:43,360
Speaker 1: George Wallace. Yeah, so this guy, I just want to say,

839
00:46:43,800 --> 00:46:46,720
Speaker 1: he reminds me a little bit of like a terrifying

840
00:46:47,160 --> 00:46:52,000
Speaker 1: authoritarian from another time, and we're not going to play.

841
00:46:52,120 --> 00:46:54,799
Speaker 1: This is a constitutional right that we have the right

842
00:46:54,840 --> 00:46:57,759
Speaker 1: to protest. It comes before the right you have to

843
00:46:58,120 --> 00:47:03,239
Speaker 1: have guns, and quite frankly, fuck that guy. That's it

844
00:47:03,360 --> 00:47:09,400
Speaker 1: for this episode of Fast Politics. Tune in every Monday, Wednesday,

845
00:47:09,640 --> 00:47:14,120
Speaker 1: Thursday and Saturday to hear the best minds and politics

846
00:47:14,200 --> 00:47:18,480
Speaker 1: make sense of all this chaos. If you enjoy this podcast,

847
00:47:18,840 --> 00:47:22,280
Speaker 1: please send it to a friend and keep the conversation going.

848
00:47:22,719 --> 00:47:23,840
Speaker 1: Thanks for listening.