WEBVTT - Weirdhouse Cinema Rewind: Mothra vs. Godzilla 0:00:04.640 --> 0:00:07.640 Hey, welcome to Weird House Cinema. Rewind. This is Rob 0:00:07.720 --> 0:00:10.719 Lamb and ooh. Today we're going to revisit nineteen sixty 0:00:10.720 --> 0:00:16.239 four's mathra Versus Godzilla. This episode originally published five twenty three, 0:00:16.320 --> 0:00:18.520 twenty twenty five. It is a whole lot of fun. 0:00:19.320 --> 0:00:19.880 Let's have it. 0:00:22.960 --> 0:00:29.240 Welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind, a production of iHeartRadio. 0:00:33.560 --> 0:00:36.120 Hey you welcome to Weird House Cinema. This is Rob 0:00:36.200 --> 0:00:38.320 Lamb and this is Joe McCormick. 0:00:38.400 --> 0:00:40.720 And today on Weird House Cinema, we are going to 0:00:40.760 --> 0:00:44.960 be talking about the nineteen sixty four giant monster movie 0:00:45.360 --> 0:00:48.760 mathra Versus Godzilla, directed by Ishiro Honda. 0:00:49.120 --> 0:00:52.080 This is our third Godzilla movie, following nineteen seventy one's 0:00:52.080 --> 0:00:56.000 Godzilla versus Hetera and nineteen sixty nine's All Monsters Attack. 0:00:56.320 --> 0:00:59.640 That's films eleven and ten, respectively. This is also our 0:01:00.080 --> 0:01:03.320 third issue a Honda film. He directed this All Monsters 0:01:03.320 --> 0:01:06.320 Attack and a nineteen sixty nine film titled Atragon we've 0:01:06.360 --> 0:01:08.319 talked about on the show before. That is a flying 0:01:08.360 --> 0:01:13.760 submarine and another Kaiju creature. He is. He is one 0:01:13.800 --> 0:01:16.640 of only a handful of directors that we have featured 0:01:16.680 --> 0:01:20.160 on three or more weird house cinema selections. 0:01:20.440 --> 0:01:23.399 You know, we are really doing the Godzilla films in 0:01:23.480 --> 0:01:27.080 a strange order, and by that I mean we're working 0:01:27.400 --> 0:01:31.640 first of all, backwards through time. But also we started 0:01:31.760 --> 0:01:35.000 with what are widely seen as some of the weirdest, 0:01:35.160 --> 0:01:40.440 most divergent films in the Showa era Godzilla catalog. So 0:01:40.720 --> 0:01:42.880 the first one we did, like you said, was Godzilla 0:01:42.959 --> 0:01:46.880 versus Hetera. That's from nineteen seventy one. That was indeed 0:01:46.920 --> 0:01:50.680 the eleventh film in the Godzilla cannon, and that one 0:01:50.800 --> 0:01:55.480 was a psychedelic ecological doom trip in which Godzilla is 0:01:55.720 --> 0:02:00.320 summoned to defend Japan from a toxic sludge mone monster 0:02:00.520 --> 0:02:04.560 that powers up by huffing pollution out of factory smokestacks. 0:02:05.400 --> 0:02:08.080 A lot of Godzilla fans regard Hetera as one of 0:02:08.120 --> 0:02:10.840 the worst films in the series. I do not share 0:02:10.880 --> 0:02:13.200 that opinion. I like it a lot more than some 0:02:13.320 --> 0:02:16.880 of the more mainstream monster slams in the middle of 0:02:16.919 --> 0:02:19.720 the original run. I think it's weirdness actually kind of 0:02:20.680 --> 0:02:23.920 makes it more unique, really makes it stand out. But 0:02:24.200 --> 0:02:26.520 I will agree, yes, it is one of the most 0:02:26.600 --> 0:02:28.480 unusual Godzilla films. 0:02:28.919 --> 0:02:30.520 Yeah, I mean, at the end of the day, if 0:02:30.520 --> 0:02:33.440 you're watching a Godzilla movie or any Kaiji movie, it's 0:02:33.480 --> 0:02:35.160 like you're in a good place. Yeah. 0:02:35.280 --> 0:02:38.799 Yeah, So we did that one, and then the next 0:02:38.840 --> 0:02:42.799 one we covered was based on a listener suggestion that 0:02:42.880 --> 0:02:46.760 was All Monsters Attack from sixty nine. This was the 0:02:46.960 --> 0:02:49.640 tenth Godzilla film, as you said, and once again this 0:02:49.680 --> 0:02:52.760 one was a departure from the established format at this 0:02:52.880 --> 0:02:57.720 time because while the main series, starting from pretty early, 0:02:58.960 --> 0:03:01.880 had been a specially popular with kids, I think All 0:03:01.919 --> 0:03:05.639 Monsters Attack was the first Godzilla movie that you could 0:03:05.680 --> 0:03:09.080 really say was explicitly just made for children, and it 0:03:09.160 --> 0:03:12.040 was just a kid's movie. The main character is a 0:03:12.080 --> 0:03:15.840 lonely little boy whose parents are always busy working, and 0:03:16.000 --> 0:03:20.120 so he sort of has Godzilla and the previously introduced 0:03:20.360 --> 0:03:24.079 baby Zilla creature known as Manila. Like Mini Godzilla as 0:03:24.160 --> 0:03:29.440 imaginary friends. All Monsters Attack was also a very budget 0:03:29.560 --> 0:03:33.960 conscious film, making extensive use of archival footage from previous 0:03:34.000 --> 0:03:38.800 Godzilla movies, recycling fights and inserting them in creative ways 0:03:38.800 --> 0:03:41.800 into this framing narrative about the little boy who imagines 0:03:41.920 --> 0:03:45.640 the adventures of Godzilla and Manila. This one was also 0:03:45.760 --> 0:03:49.840 unusual for the series because within this frame narrative, it 0:03:49.960 --> 0:03:54.160 was understood that Godzilla and the other monsters are basically 0:03:54.360 --> 0:03:58.480 fictional beings. So they're not being portrayed as acting within 0:03:58.600 --> 0:04:01.360 the real universe of the movie, but they are being 0:04:01.440 --> 0:04:05.680 dreamed about or imagined about by the main character. So 0:04:05.920 --> 0:04:09.640 in Almoster's Attack, they are creatures of the imagination, and 0:04:09.680 --> 0:04:12.640 the main point of the story was about what they 0:04:12.840 --> 0:04:15.960 mean to the children who love them. There's actually a monologue. 0:04:15.960 --> 0:04:17.320 I don't know if you remember this, Rob there's like 0:04:17.320 --> 0:04:20.800 a monologue at the end of the movie that explicitly 0:04:20.839 --> 0:04:24.360 makes the case that the Kaiju are for children what 0:04:24.400 --> 0:04:26.400 the gods are for adults. 0:04:27.279 --> 0:04:30.120 Yeah. Yeah, that one was very interesting in that in 0:04:30.200 --> 0:04:32.240 many ways, you could see it as a lesser Godzilla 0:04:32.320 --> 0:04:35.239 film because it is clearly, you know, aimed at children, 0:04:35.320 --> 0:04:38.160 and it has a has a mini Godzilla and so forth. 0:04:38.200 --> 0:04:40.200 But yeah, it does like chew a little bit on 0:04:40.279 --> 0:04:44.680 the meaning of a Kaiju film. So I really did 0:04:44.720 --> 0:04:45.880 appreciate that one as well. 0:04:46.080 --> 0:04:49.000 Yeah. So those were number eleven and then number ten, 0:04:49.400 --> 0:04:52.400 and now we're doing a big hopscotch down the chronology 0:04:52.480 --> 0:04:56.560 ladder to number four. Mathra versus Godzilla was the fourth 0:04:56.640 --> 0:05:01.320 film in the Godzilla franchise, and it represents the third 0:05:01.640 --> 0:05:05.840 time that Godzilla would face off against another giant monster 0:05:06.000 --> 0:05:10.839 in battle, the first time a Godzilla movie would include 0:05:10.839 --> 0:05:14.520 a monster that I think you should regard as explicitly 0:05:14.800 --> 0:05:18.880 good or as a protector of humans against a greater threat. 0:05:19.440 --> 0:05:22.839 This is a role Godzilla would himself usually take in 0:05:22.920 --> 0:05:26.240 later films, but here the protector is not Godzilla but 0:05:26.360 --> 0:05:28.919 rather his antagonist Mathra. 0:05:29.480 --> 0:05:32.680 Yeah, the title is Mathra versus Godzilla, which kind of 0:05:32.680 --> 0:05:35.560 does imply that Mathra has top billing. We'll get into 0:05:35.600 --> 0:05:37.440 that a little bit. But also it is like Mathra 0:05:37.600 --> 0:05:41.919 against Godzilla. Mathra is a force in opposition to Godzilla, 0:05:41.960 --> 0:05:46.600 And yeah, Mathra is absolutely good. Mathra is a protector. 0:05:46.680 --> 0:05:48.599 It's not one of these like though the enemy of 0:05:48.640 --> 0:05:51.720 my enemy monster is my friend monster. No, like Mathra 0:05:51.920 --> 0:05:57.200 is a divine being. The Mathra is the creature of 0:05:57.200 --> 0:05:57.760 the gods. 0:05:58.000 --> 0:06:02.240 But also, Mathra is not cute and friendly and cuddly 0:06:02.320 --> 0:06:06.440 the way that say Manila is right, Mathra is a 0:06:06.640 --> 0:06:11.520 somewhat frightening being, but frightening to protect us, to you know, 0:06:11.600 --> 0:06:13.000 frightening on the side of good. 0:06:13.400 --> 0:06:17.160 But she also looks very soft, like, yeah, she's kind 0:06:17.160 --> 0:06:21.240 of furree. So I mean there is a very nice 0:06:21.320 --> 0:06:23.280 touch the fur vibe with Mathra as well. 0:06:23.560 --> 0:06:26.119 I didn't think about the furriness. You are right there, 0:06:27.440 --> 0:06:30.160 you know, more texturally pleasing than most of the monsters 0:06:30.160 --> 0:06:32.479 in the Godzilla series, which are often quite spiny and 0:06:32.520 --> 0:06:38.240 scaly looking. But also Mathra Versus Godzilla is the last 0:06:38.440 --> 0:06:42.320 film of the original Toho run to make Godzilla a 0:06:42.480 --> 0:06:46.240 bad guy. You could argue that Godzilla is more or 0:06:46.360 --> 0:06:50.119 less the villain, or, if not a morally culpable villain, 0:06:50.160 --> 0:06:55.200 at least a threatening and destructive force to humans in 0:06:55.279 --> 0:06:58.400 the first four movies, So I think maybe we should 0:06:58.560 --> 0:07:01.440 run through those really quick to figure out how we 0:07:01.520 --> 0:07:05.560 get to Mathra Versus Godzilla. So you've got the original 0:07:05.600 --> 0:07:09.080 Godzilla in nineteen fifty four. This, as we've talked about 0:07:09.120 --> 0:07:13.520 in the past, is a dark, haunting, somber tale about 0:07:13.560 --> 0:07:17.680 a monster created by nuclear weapons testing, which rises up 0:07:17.720 --> 0:07:21.280 out of the sea and attacks Japan. The first movie 0:07:21.640 --> 0:07:24.400 here was inspired in part by some events in the 0:07:24.400 --> 0:07:26.880 real world. You can obviously think about the events of 0:07:26.880 --> 0:07:29.920 World War two and the atomic bombing of Japan, but 0:07:29.960 --> 0:07:32.280 then also there were more recent events that I've read 0:07:32.680 --> 0:07:37.320 were a major influence on the original Godzilla. One of 0:07:37.360 --> 0:07:41.400 these was the so called Lucky Dragon five incident, which 0:07:41.440 --> 0:07:44.520 happened earlier the year Godzilla was released. This was when 0:07:44.560 --> 0:07:47.400 the crew of a Japanese tuna fishing boat called the 0:07:47.480 --> 0:07:52.400 Lucky Dragon five were exposed to high levels of radiation 0:07:52.640 --> 0:07:55.600 as a result of the Castle Bravo hydrogen bomb test 0:07:55.640 --> 0:08:00.120 at Bikini Atole. And you can see the influence of 0:08:00.160 --> 0:08:03.440 the anxiety caused by this event in the way the 0:08:03.440 --> 0:08:08.600 movie articulates anti nuclear and anti militarist themes. A lot 0:08:08.640 --> 0:08:13.880 of Godzilla fans trained on the silly, sometimes themeless monster 0:08:13.960 --> 0:08:16.640 suit wrestling matches that you would get in later movies, 0:08:17.120 --> 0:08:19.720 I think will be quite shocked by the dark and 0:08:19.840 --> 0:08:21.760 serious tone of the first movie. 0:08:22.560 --> 0:08:26.760 Yeah, the original Godzilla black and white. Godzilla is an 0:08:26.760 --> 0:08:31.440 absolute destroyer and a thing that arises out of humanity's 0:08:31.800 --> 0:08:33.199 atomic age sins. 0:08:33.280 --> 0:08:37.880 Really Yeah. Now, this first movie was directed by Ishiro Honda, 0:08:37.920 --> 0:08:40.360 the same as the director of mathra Versus Godzilla, So 0:08:40.400 --> 0:08:44.640 it's not a question of like totally different creative inputs. 0:08:44.640 --> 0:08:48.400 We have the same main creative force behind these two movies. 0:08:48.400 --> 0:08:51.360 But we can talk about reasons they might be different 0:08:51.679 --> 0:08:55.040 across time. But the first movie was by Honda and 0:08:55.040 --> 0:08:58.839 it was a huge hit for Toho. So in this movie, 0:08:58.880 --> 0:09:02.400 Godzilla is not at I don't know if it makes 0:09:02.480 --> 0:09:05.280 sense to call him a villain, but he certainly has 0:09:05.640 --> 0:09:07.640 I think he's pretty close to a villain in the 0:09:07.640 --> 0:09:10.800 first movie. Certainly a destructive force of nature or a 0:09:10.840 --> 0:09:14.679 destructive force of nature having been twisted by human sins 0:09:14.720 --> 0:09:15.559 and technology. 0:09:15.880 --> 0:09:17.720 Yeah, I think that's the way to look at it. Like, Yeah, 0:09:17.960 --> 0:09:22.080 it's not like he has much of a persona beyond that. 0:09:22.200 --> 0:09:25.040 I mean, he is like some sort of dark anti 0:09:25.120 --> 0:09:31.000 god that has been summoned by human technology and human advancement. 0:09:30.800 --> 0:09:34.120 Not here to help yea. Yeah. Then after that, so 0:09:34.200 --> 0:09:36.920 that's fifty four. Then after that you've got Godzilla raids 0:09:36.960 --> 0:09:41.320 again in nineteen fifty five. This was a fast follow 0:09:41.400 --> 0:09:44.880 up movie to capitalize on the success of the original Godzilla. 0:09:44.960 --> 0:09:47.840 This one not directed by Ishi ro Honda but by 0:09:47.960 --> 0:09:52.720 Modeyoshi Oda. Mostly gone in this one are the anti war, 0:09:52.800 --> 0:09:55.719 anti nuclear themes. I haven't actually seen this movie, but 0:09:55.720 --> 0:09:59.000 from what I've read it, it's described as kind of 0:09:59.160 --> 0:10:03.079 a fast paced adventure where Godzilla ends up fighting another 0:10:03.160 --> 0:10:07.679 giant monster. I believe based on an ankylosaur model. It's 0:10:07.800 --> 0:10:13.320 like a quadrupedal dinosaur covered in spines called anguiras. Worth 0:10:13.400 --> 0:10:16.840 noting here that the Godzilla of this movie was not 0:10:16.960 --> 0:10:20.400 supposed to be the same individual as the original Godzilla, 0:10:20.400 --> 0:10:22.960 who died at the end of the first movie. Is 0:10:23.040 --> 0:10:25.400 just another giant radioactive reptile. 0:10:25.760 --> 0:10:28.280 Yeah. Yeah. At the end of the first movie, Godzilla 0:10:28.400 --> 0:10:31.240 is destroyed, and there's just kind of there's this warning. 0:10:31.280 --> 0:10:33.440 It's like, if we don't change our ways, there could 0:10:33.480 --> 0:10:36.920 be more Godzillas. Yeah, and yeah, it came to pass. 0:10:37.120 --> 0:10:37.760 Here they come. 0:10:38.080 --> 0:10:41.960 Yeah, and then after this there actually would not be 0:10:42.200 --> 0:10:46.160 another Godzilla movie for eight years, but Toho did not 0:10:46.440 --> 0:10:51.160 abandon the Kaiju the giant monster format. Instead, they introduced 0:10:51.280 --> 0:10:55.320 new monsters in their own films, such as Rodin in 0:10:55.400 --> 0:10:58.320 nineteen fifty six. This is a movie about a giant 0:10:58.679 --> 0:11:03.400 flying teran don basically this one is also directed by 0:11:03.400 --> 0:11:07.640 Ishiro Honda, and then Mathra in nineteen sixty one, again 0:11:07.720 --> 0:11:11.240 by Honda, about a giant moth worshiped as a god 0:11:11.320 --> 0:11:14.320 by the people of a remote island. And I think 0:11:14.400 --> 0:11:18.280 you could argue that Mathra was the second most popular 0:11:18.400 --> 0:11:21.040 original Toho Kaiju after Godzilla. 0:11:21.640 --> 0:11:24.960 Yeah, that seems to be the case. I was reading 0:11:25.000 --> 0:11:27.640 a bit about this in Godzilla The show What Era 0:11:27.720 --> 0:11:31.360 Films nineteen fifty four through nineteen seventy five, which is 0:11:31.440 --> 0:11:34.920 the book Slash Blu Ray Collection that the Criterion Collection 0:11:35.080 --> 0:11:39.360 put out, with the textual part written by Steve Rifele, 0:11:39.760 --> 0:11:42.600 who is, as far as I can tell, like the 0:11:42.760 --> 0:11:46.120 main English language authority on Godzilla films. I've heard him 0:11:46.400 --> 0:11:50.080 on Fresh Air with Harry Gross before talking about Godzilla films. 0:11:50.360 --> 0:11:52.120 We were just talking about this off Mike, but we 0:11:52.240 --> 0:11:55.800 both just ordered this Criterion Collection disc set and it's 0:11:55.840 --> 0:11:58.840 a magnificent collection. Yeah, the book that comes with it 0:11:58.559 --> 0:11:59.600 is excellent. 0:12:00.120 --> 0:12:03.800 It is a testimony to just how beautiful physical media 0:12:03.840 --> 0:12:06.320 can be for films. But one of the points I'll 0:12:06.360 --> 0:12:07.920 keep coming back to some of the things that Rifle 0:12:07.960 --> 0:12:10.880 has to say about these about these movies, the Rifle 0:12:10.920 --> 0:12:13.000 points out that during this period this is like a 0:12:13.000 --> 0:12:17.600 golden age of Japanese cinema. Japanese film studios were really cooking. 0:12:17.960 --> 0:12:20.800 A lot of great serious films were coming out. But 0:12:21.120 --> 0:12:23.480 also in these other buckets of content. There was like 0:12:23.520 --> 0:12:25.880 a lot of innovation. People were trying new things, and 0:12:25.920 --> 0:12:27.840 I think that's part of what we're seeing here is 0:12:27.880 --> 0:12:31.280 like Godzilla was a success, but they were trying. They 0:12:31.280 --> 0:12:34.160 were expanding what Kaiju could be as well. So it's 0:12:34.160 --> 0:12:36.280 like they weren't going to rest on their laurels necessarily 0:12:36.320 --> 0:12:39.600 and just put out Godzilla films, though they will eventually 0:12:39.679 --> 0:12:41.719 kind of return to form with this, like let's come 0:12:41.720 --> 0:12:44.280 back to Godzilla and maybe we'll bring in some things 0:12:44.280 --> 0:12:47.080 that we learned and some creatures we created from these 0:12:47.120 --> 0:12:47.760 other pictures. 0:12:47.920 --> 0:12:50.840 That's right, And so here we finally get to that. 0:12:51.000 --> 0:12:54.720 In nineteen sixty three with King Kong versus Godzilla, they 0:12:54.720 --> 0:12:56.840 got the rights yep, Gong or right at least got 0:12:56.880 --> 0:13:00.280 some kind of rights to King Kong. So this was 0:13:00.280 --> 0:13:04.120 a sort of appointment meet Slam between as the poster said, 0:13:04.480 --> 0:13:09.160 the two mightiest monsters of all time. From what I've read, 0:13:09.760 --> 0:13:12.800 by the way, I think King Kong was one of 0:13:12.840 --> 0:13:16.080 the inspirations for the original Godzilla, Like there was a 0:13:16.120 --> 0:13:19.040 producer at Toho who had been thinking about King Kong, 0:13:19.080 --> 0:13:21.720 which had just had been made in the nineteen thirties, 0:13:21.720 --> 0:13:24.800 but I think had just been recently re released internationally. 0:13:25.440 --> 0:13:28.400 And then I think there were also some other creative inspirations, 0:13:28.400 --> 0:13:31.920 maybe the Beast from twenty thousand Fathoms. But anyway, so 0:13:32.320 --> 0:13:35.640 here we've kind we finally get to mash the flavors 0:13:35.679 --> 0:13:40.760 together King Kong versus Godzilla. It continued the giant monster 0:13:40.920 --> 0:13:44.200 conflict theme. I believe it is in this movie that 0:13:44.240 --> 0:13:48.120 we really start to see the first signs of silly 0:13:48.160 --> 0:13:52.600 moves taken from professional wrestling, and the monsters start to 0:13:52.640 --> 0:13:57.520 act a bit less scary and more funny and anthropomorphic. 0:13:58.160 --> 0:14:01.280 Yeah, and Rifle says that the that Honda was not 0:14:01.360 --> 0:14:03.600 a big fan of this, this sort of treatment of 0:14:03.600 --> 0:14:05.640 Godzilla and certainly some of the stuff we see in 0:14:05.679 --> 0:14:10.200 some subsequent films where Godzilla is essentially dancing and doing pratfalls. Yeah, 0:14:11.880 --> 0:14:13.960 I think he makes a strong point that when Honda 0:14:14.040 --> 0:14:16.280 is on board for a picture, there is going to 0:14:16.640 --> 0:14:21.000 You're going to see more of a move towards capturing 0:14:21.080 --> 0:14:24.840 something serious about Godzilla and maybe leaning a little bit 0:14:24.840 --> 0:14:27.440 more into social commentary than some of the other pictures. 0:14:27.480 --> 0:14:30.640 Are those Some of the non Honda pictures, like the 0:14:30.680 --> 0:14:33.920 Hetero Picture, are actually quite serious in their own right 0:14:33.960 --> 0:14:34.320 as well. 0:14:34.560 --> 0:14:37.680 Yeah, yeah, I mean, I don't take it to be 0:14:37.760 --> 0:14:41.760 that Ishiro Honda was against having a silly, fun time 0:14:41.960 --> 0:14:44.120 and I think it's more like that. You know, he 0:14:44.400 --> 0:14:47.400 made the original movie, and he made it with serious 0:14:47.440 --> 0:14:50.400 themes in mind. This was in like anti nuclear weapons, 0:14:50.480 --> 0:14:55.320 anti war film, and now this same creature is just 0:14:55.400 --> 0:14:58.040 out here, you know, doing touchdown dances and stuff. 0:14:58.880 --> 0:15:00.960 Yeah, like he did. He's seem to be opposed to 0:15:02.040 --> 0:15:06.240 ignoring the legacy of Godzilla and what Godzilla originally meant. 0:15:06.320 --> 0:15:09.120 You can certainly drift and evolve the brand, but you 0:15:09.120 --> 0:15:12.640 don't want to abandon some of the key principles of 0:15:12.680 --> 0:15:13.000 the thing. 0:15:13.360 --> 0:15:17.240 Yeah. But anyway, so you have King Kong versus Godzilla, 0:15:17.280 --> 0:15:19.080 and then finally you get to the movie we're talking 0:15:19.120 --> 0:15:23.040 about today, Mathra versus Godzilla in nineteen sixty four, where 0:15:23.040 --> 0:15:26.440 contrary to our expectations trained on the later movies, there 0:15:26.600 --> 0:15:30.560 is a protector monster, but it is Mathra, not Godzilla. 0:15:30.640 --> 0:15:34.360 Godzilla is on the loose again, smashing things up after 0:15:34.400 --> 0:15:37.200 being awoken from the dirt, and in the story, the 0:15:37.200 --> 0:15:42.440 people of Japan must It's interesting what they have to 0:15:42.520 --> 0:15:46.600 do to defend themselves. It is essentially to humble themselves 0:15:46.680 --> 0:15:51.320 before nature and before the gods. To they have to 0:15:51.640 --> 0:15:54.280 humble themselves in like, go to an island and ask 0:15:54.360 --> 0:15:58.040 the people there to allow them to petition their their 0:15:58.080 --> 0:16:02.760 great godlike moth dear to come to their aid. And 0:16:03.640 --> 0:16:05.800 the moth does come to their aid, but not before 0:16:05.840 --> 0:16:08.360 making them feel bad about their greed and arrogance. 0:16:08.440 --> 0:16:10.600 And they should feel bad. Yeah, we'll discussed. 0:16:11.480 --> 0:16:13.920 But remember I started talking about these four movies in 0:16:14.040 --> 0:16:18.320 order because this is the last time in this original 0:16:18.400 --> 0:16:22.920 run at least, that we really see Godzilla as the antagonist, 0:16:23.040 --> 0:16:26.280 the villain as opposed to the protector. After this movie, 0:16:26.280 --> 0:16:31.040 Godzilla starts his long face turn, repeatedly being called upon 0:16:31.440 --> 0:16:35.840 to battle more evil and more destructive monsters, essentially to 0:16:37.200 --> 0:16:41.360 himself do what Mathra does in this movie. I believe 0:16:41.400 --> 0:16:44.240 Godzilla would wouldn't really get to be the villain again 0:16:45.040 --> 0:16:47.520 until some films later in the seventies and eighties. 0:16:47.920 --> 0:16:52.120 Yeah, when they essentially are relaunching Godzilla and going back 0:16:52.120 --> 0:16:53.840 to its roots to some extent. 0:16:54.360 --> 0:16:57.360 But anyway, since we've been going backwards through time through 0:16:57.360 --> 0:16:59.240 the series, I wonder are we eventually going to work 0:16:59.240 --> 0:17:01.160 our way back to the fifty four original. 0:17:01.600 --> 0:17:04.719 Yeah? I think we should. It's interesting to think about 0:17:05.040 --> 0:17:07.520 about all of this in comparison to the way I 0:17:07.560 --> 0:17:10.840 think most of us have consumed Godzilla media, like, most 0:17:10.880 --> 0:17:13.960 of us have probably not seen them. First of all, 0:17:13.960 --> 0:17:15.840 most of us have not seen all of them, and 0:17:15.880 --> 0:17:17.880 most of us have certainly not seen them in order. 0:17:18.200 --> 0:17:21.040 I know, growing up, it's like I would catch Godzilla 0:17:21.080 --> 0:17:25.480 movies on television exclusively. I don't know that I had 0:17:25.520 --> 0:17:29.320 ever rented a Godzilla movie growing up. Maybe one of 0:17:29.359 --> 0:17:31.440 the later and one or two of the later, you know, 0:17:31.840 --> 0:17:34.280 films from the nineties or something, But for the most part, 0:17:34.320 --> 0:17:37.480 it's just Godzilla movies came on. You might not catch 0:17:37.520 --> 0:17:39.440 all of them, you might just catch parts of them 0:17:39.480 --> 0:17:42.680 even you don't didn't know where in the in the 0:17:42.800 --> 0:17:46.280 order they fell. And then you're just continually making new 0:17:46.280 --> 0:17:48.560 discoveries about what a Godzilla movie can be. 0:17:48.760 --> 0:17:51.320 Wait, do you remember what the first when you saw was? 0:17:51.760 --> 0:17:53.960 Ooh, that's a tough one, because you know there were 0:17:54.000 --> 0:17:56.080 some there was a there was a there was one 0:17:56.080 --> 0:17:58.359 Godzilla movie in particular, I remember seeing on Mystery Sens 0:17:58.359 --> 0:18:00.479 they three thousand as a kid. But then there were 0:18:00.480 --> 0:18:03.439 some others that they would just play on various Turner 0:18:03.760 --> 0:18:09.000 broadcast stations. I want to say that it was Godzilla 0:18:09.040 --> 0:18:11.159 versus the Sea Monster. I think that was the one, 0:18:11.280 --> 0:18:13.200 one of the big crab monster. I think that might 0:18:13.240 --> 0:18:16.320 have been the first one I saw a Bira. Yeah, yeah, 0:18:16.359 --> 0:18:19.960 it was also released as Godzilla Versus the Sea Monster. 0:18:20.280 --> 0:18:22.600 I'm not sure this is the earliest one I saw, 0:18:22.640 --> 0:18:26.200 but my earliest memory of seeing one was a TV 0:18:26.359 --> 0:18:31.000 broadcast of the one that's now usually called Godzilla Versus. 0:18:31.840 --> 0:18:34.520 Actually not Godzilla Versus, just called The Invasion of the 0:18:34.560 --> 0:18:38.200 Astro Monster. It's the one where Godzilla fights an alien 0:18:38.520 --> 0:18:42.600 kaiju called Monster Zero. I remember the scene on the 0:18:42.640 --> 0:18:45.480 other planet where there's like a big I don't know. 0:18:45.920 --> 0:18:47.960 In my memory, it was like a football field on 0:18:48.000 --> 0:18:49.320 the surface of another planet. 0:18:49.680 --> 0:18:52.280 I don't think i've seen that one. Yeah, but yeah, 0:18:52.920 --> 0:18:55.640 obviously I'd love to hear listeners tell us what their 0:18:55.680 --> 0:18:59.200 experience was with the Godzilla franchise. What was the first 0:18:59.200 --> 0:19:02.399 Godzilla film you saw, and then what was your what 0:19:02.720 --> 0:19:04.680 subsequently did you get into, Like where did you go 0:19:04.760 --> 0:19:07.840 from there? Did you move forward in time or backwards 0:19:07.880 --> 0:19:10.080 in time. I'm sure there's some listeners who haven't even 0:19:10.080 --> 0:19:12.760 seen any of the show era Godzilla films, you might 0:19:12.800 --> 0:19:16.160 be more familiar with some of the current big Hollywood 0:19:16.160 --> 0:19:18.000 blockbusters that feature Godzilla. 0:19:18.119 --> 0:19:21.840 Yeah, you know, I don't know if where's the best 0:19:21.840 --> 0:19:23.800 place to talk about this in the episode, so maybe 0:19:23.840 --> 0:19:26.160 I'll just say it here. One thing I was thinking 0:19:26.200 --> 0:19:31.119 about was how it feels like you can really detect 0:19:31.280 --> 0:19:35.960 a zeitgeist shift from the post war fifties to the 0:19:36.000 --> 0:19:42.040 mid sixties in Godzilla nineteen fifty four compared to Mathra 0:19:42.160 --> 0:19:46.480 versus Godzilla in nineteen sixty four. Like I was thinking 0:19:46.520 --> 0:19:51.640 about how in the original Godzilla, the main human hero 0:19:52.320 --> 0:19:57.240 the main human heroes are scientists, and especially one scientist 0:19:57.320 --> 0:20:01.080 who bravely sacrifices his own life to carry out a 0:20:01.240 --> 0:20:07.520 scientific plan to defeat the rampaging monster while also not 0:20:08.119 --> 0:20:11.840 bringing into being a weapon that would you know, potentially 0:20:11.880 --> 0:20:16.240 be abused by all humanity. In Mathra, the main human 0:20:16.320 --> 0:20:20.560 heroes are, by contrast, journalists. There is a scientist too, 0:20:20.600 --> 0:20:22.720 there's like a professor who tags along with them, but 0:20:22.760 --> 0:20:26.560 the main two are journalists, and their real struggle is 0:20:26.840 --> 0:20:34.760 resisting capitalistic excess and greed, not by performing heroic acts themselves, really, 0:20:35.200 --> 0:20:39.359 but by acting as representatives of humanity, or at least 0:20:39.400 --> 0:20:44.200 of the nation of Japan and humbling themselves before nature 0:20:44.359 --> 0:20:48.600 and traditional religion to like ask the embodiment of these 0:20:48.600 --> 0:20:52.240 forces to have mercy on them. And the difference is 0:20:52.240 --> 0:20:55.040 also there so much in the environment, Like the kind 0:20:55.080 --> 0:20:59.720 of haunted, diminished, destroyed kind of environment of the original 0:20:59.800 --> 0:21:05.080 Moved is so different in math Reverses, where the environment 0:21:05.160 --> 0:21:08.520 feels like it's just bustling and full of public works 0:21:08.560 --> 0:21:11.320 and things being built in industry and money making. 0:21:11.880 --> 0:21:15.679 Yeah. Yeah, the world of mathra versus Godzilla was a 0:21:15.680 --> 0:21:18.480 world on the move, a world on the grow. Everyone 0:21:18.560 --> 0:21:23.400 is very distracted with the capitalist exercise here, and that's 0:21:23.480 --> 0:21:26.160 kind of the whole point of it is that Godzilla 0:21:26.280 --> 0:21:29.200 is going to happen again. But if we're just too 0:21:29.280 --> 0:21:33.040 greedy and too bound up in our and chasing riches 0:21:34.040 --> 0:21:36.560 and growing everything, we're not going to be in a 0:21:36.600 --> 0:21:40.520 place where we can resist him again when he attacks. 0:21:41.040 --> 0:21:43.200 In fact, as we'll discuss, it's like all this greed 0:21:43.320 --> 0:21:46.280 is getting in the way of various preparations that could 0:21:46.320 --> 0:21:48.400 have been made to prevent this sort of thing from occurring. 0:21:48.720 --> 0:21:52.680 Yeah, but the great human sin lying behind the original 0:21:52.760 --> 0:22:00.560 Godzilla is actually a horrible, deadly destructive, collective project of humanity, 0:22:01.080 --> 0:22:06.040 whereas the sin in the human sin in mathra Versus 0:22:06.200 --> 0:22:09.280 is individual acts of greed and selfishness. 0:22:09.480 --> 0:22:12.280 Yeah, that's a great point. But the solution again is 0:22:12.600 --> 0:22:14.520 getting out of that and getting into more of a 0:22:14.560 --> 0:22:19.000 collective approach towards problems. Yeah, all right, Well, let's go 0:22:19.040 --> 0:22:21.359 ahead and listen to just a little splash of the 0:22:21.400 --> 0:22:24.400 trailer here. This is, I believe, from the original Japanese. 0:22:23.920 --> 0:23:05.840 Trade, not what's say you know, what's. 0:23:21.160 --> 0:23:32.400 What's making Joe Cunt three and your respect. 0:23:39.920 --> 0:23:42.920 All right, if you would like to watch mathra versus Godzilla, 0:23:43.800 --> 0:23:45.560 you should be able to get a hold of it. 0:23:45.920 --> 0:23:48.600 To be clear, though, this is Manthra versus Godzilla, not 0:23:48.600 --> 0:23:52.920 Godzilla versus Mathra, because Godzilla versus Matha is the name 0:23:53.119 --> 0:23:56.840 of a later Godzilla film that features both of these kaiju. 0:23:57.240 --> 0:24:00.439 It's it's a mistake that you would be forgiven for making. 0:24:00.520 --> 0:24:02.720 And if you make this mistake, you're still going to 0:24:02.760 --> 0:24:06.000 get to watch a Godzilla movie, so you know, it's 0:24:06.040 --> 0:24:09.000 no big deal. But this is Mathra versus Godzilla. 0:24:09.240 --> 0:24:11.520 Put the year in there, nineteen sixty four. That'll do 0:24:11.560 --> 0:24:11.919 it for you. 0:24:12.119 --> 0:24:14.680 Yeah, yeah, you can get it a number of places. Again, 0:24:14.760 --> 0:24:18.159 the Criterion Collection Godzilla the Showa era Films fifty four 0:24:18.240 --> 0:24:21.640 through seventy five Blu ray set is amazing, hard back, 0:24:21.720 --> 0:24:26.000