1
00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:03,480
Speaker 1: Welcome to How the Money. I'm Joel and I am Matt,

2
00:00:03,720 --> 00:00:07,480
Speaker 1: and today we're discussing the debt snowball versus debt avalanche

3
00:00:07,520 --> 00:00:28,840
Speaker 1: approach to paying down your debt. Yeah, Joel, we are

4
00:00:28,880 --> 00:00:32,560
Speaker 1: talking about the hotly debated topic of how you should

5
00:00:32,560 --> 00:00:36,320
Speaker 1: pay down your debts, that avalanche versus the debt snowball,

6
00:00:36,400 --> 00:00:38,239
Speaker 1: and obviously the debt snowball. A lot of folks have

7
00:00:38,320 --> 00:00:41,800
Speaker 1: heard about that through Dave Ramsey. He's pretty big in

8
00:00:41,840 --> 00:00:44,519
Speaker 1: the personal finance space. Heard of that guy, You've heard

9
00:00:44,520 --> 00:00:47,440
Speaker 1: of that guy. We're coming for you, Dave. Dave's got

10
00:00:47,479 --> 00:00:49,840
Speaker 1: some good things to say, right I don't I definitely

11
00:00:49,840 --> 00:00:53,159
Speaker 1: don't wanna tear Dave down. Um, there's there's actually an

12
00:00:53,240 --> 00:00:56,080
Speaker 1: article in Money magazine recently that kind of was going

13
00:00:56,120 --> 00:00:59,840
Speaker 1: after him. And I will say, Dave not my favorite person,

14
00:01:00,360 --> 00:01:03,320
Speaker 1: not my favorite person, and I disagree with him on

15
00:01:03,440 --> 00:01:07,080
Speaker 1: a lot of things. So disagree with him on things

16
00:01:07,080 --> 00:01:09,280
Speaker 1: except for this one thing that he does. Okay, yeah,

17
00:01:09,319 --> 00:01:11,760
Speaker 1: but no, I feel like he has helped so many people,

18
00:01:12,240 --> 00:01:14,760
Speaker 1: and in particular to get out of debt quickly, that

19
00:01:14,800 --> 00:01:17,640
Speaker 1: I would think twice before speaking harsh words against him,

20
00:01:17,680 --> 00:01:20,120
Speaker 1: just because of how much of a good effect he

21
00:01:20,160 --> 00:01:22,680
Speaker 1: has had in a lot of people's lives. I think

22
00:01:22,720 --> 00:01:25,759
Speaker 1: tackling this topic of how you pay down your debt

23
00:01:25,800 --> 00:01:28,480
Speaker 1: quickly and which of these methods is most effective is

24
00:01:28,480 --> 00:01:29,840
Speaker 1: gonna be good. It's gonna be good for us to

25
00:01:29,840 --> 00:01:32,240
Speaker 1: talk about. Yeah. Dave Ramsey, he's like the godfather for

26
00:01:32,480 --> 00:01:35,399
Speaker 1: personal finance for me, man, he basically ushered me into

27
00:01:35,440 --> 00:01:38,880
Speaker 1: this entire space like ten years ago. So Hill maybe

28
00:01:38,920 --> 00:01:40,480
Speaker 1: at least a little tip of the cap kind of

29
00:01:40,560 --> 00:01:43,240
Speaker 1: launching my financial journey to a certain extent. And sometimes

30
00:01:43,240 --> 00:01:45,919
Speaker 1: there's a teacher that's really great for for a while

31
00:01:46,240 --> 00:01:48,000
Speaker 1: and then you kind of moved past, you know, what

32
00:01:48,040 --> 00:01:50,240
Speaker 1: they have to offer. But yeah, I'm really interested to

33
00:01:50,280 --> 00:01:52,600
Speaker 1: tackle this topic today. It should be fun, Matt. Before

34
00:01:52,600 --> 00:01:55,080
Speaker 1: we get to that, I wanted to frugal versus cheap? Yeah,

35
00:01:55,080 --> 00:01:56,200
Speaker 1: I kind of want to ask you a question. I

36
00:01:56,240 --> 00:01:59,280
Speaker 1: see that written down here. So is it frugal or

37
00:01:59,360 --> 00:02:03,720
Speaker 1: cheap for me to forego buying my kids school pictures?

38
00:02:04,160 --> 00:02:06,960
Speaker 1: M Well, most folks know that I'm a photographer, right,

39
00:02:07,040 --> 00:02:09,240
Speaker 1: so I'm curious what most folks think, you know, Like,

40
00:02:09,320 --> 00:02:11,400
Speaker 1: do they think I'm gonna fall on the side of no,

41
00:02:11,560 --> 00:02:13,440
Speaker 1: you're being way too cheap. You gotta get those pictures.

42
00:02:13,560 --> 00:02:15,280
Speaker 1: Or if I'm like, well, I'm a photographer, I can

43
00:02:15,280 --> 00:02:18,440
Speaker 1: just take my own pictures. I'm frugal. Uh. That being said,

44
00:02:19,040 --> 00:02:22,320
Speaker 1: I think you are being frugal because I'm with you.

45
00:02:22,480 --> 00:02:26,840
Speaker 1: We we only rarely purchase the pictures if they're just outstanding. Otherwise,

46
00:02:27,080 --> 00:02:28,679
Speaker 1: when we get the little link and they say that

47
00:02:28,800 --> 00:02:30,160
Speaker 1: you can go look at the pictures, you know, I

48
00:02:30,200 --> 00:02:33,240
Speaker 1: look at them and then I screenshot them, and I'm

49
00:02:33,280 --> 00:02:35,720
Speaker 1: able to preserve the memory that that picture was taken

50
00:02:35,840 --> 00:02:37,080
Speaker 1: and you can see a little bit of it, and

51
00:02:37,080 --> 00:02:38,679
Speaker 1: they got the water mark. It's got the watermark on it,

52
00:02:38,720 --> 00:02:39,880
Speaker 1: so I'm never going to print it out, but I

53
00:02:39,880 --> 00:02:42,200
Speaker 1: can still save it in photos on my computer, and

54
00:02:42,240 --> 00:02:44,040
Speaker 1: I can still go back and see the cute smiles

55
00:02:44,080 --> 00:02:46,519
Speaker 1: and kind of bring back all those feelings without having

56
00:02:46,560 --> 00:02:48,600
Speaker 1: to actually pay thirty bucks for an eight by ten.

57
00:02:48,680 --> 00:02:50,400
Speaker 1: You know, you know what I'm saying. The school pictures

58
00:02:50,400 --> 00:02:53,600
Speaker 1: are crazy expensive, and obviously, like someone comes out and

59
00:02:53,600 --> 00:02:55,400
Speaker 1: spends a lot of time and and they do a

60
00:02:55,440 --> 00:02:57,560
Speaker 1: good job. They take good photos, and sometimes we do

61
00:02:57,600 --> 00:02:59,520
Speaker 1: buy them though, I mean, if they're really good I mean,

62
00:02:59,520 --> 00:03:01,799
Speaker 1: we've purchased them before because I'm like, I gotta have that.

63
00:03:01,880 --> 00:03:04,560
Speaker 1: You know, it's just just too cute. The same here too. Yeah,

64
00:03:04,600 --> 00:03:07,160
Speaker 1: we have to I've got We've definitely bought school photos

65
00:03:07,200 --> 00:03:08,560
Speaker 1: in the past, but this year we were like, you

66
00:03:08,560 --> 00:03:10,440
Speaker 1: know what, We're not gonna do it. And part of

67
00:03:10,440 --> 00:03:13,120
Speaker 1: the reason was because the girls had just been in

68
00:03:13,160 --> 00:03:15,920
Speaker 1: a wedding and they're the just super adorable pictures that

69
00:03:15,960 --> 00:03:18,280
Speaker 1: we just recently had, both of them, and so we're

70
00:03:18,320 --> 00:03:20,600
Speaker 1: not going to spend the extra sixty bucks to get

71
00:03:20,639 --> 00:03:23,200
Speaker 1: this picture package. It's not because I don't love the

72
00:03:23,320 --> 00:03:24,840
Speaker 1: I mean, obviously I went through to look at the

73
00:03:24,880 --> 00:03:27,760
Speaker 1: pictures and they were freaking adorable, and it was really hard.

74
00:03:27,760 --> 00:03:29,680
Speaker 1: I was like, oh, maybe it's worth the money. I

75
00:03:29,720 --> 00:03:33,400
Speaker 1: want it. But yeah, we decided to forgot it because

76
00:03:33,440 --> 00:03:35,920
Speaker 1: we've got pictures from a lot of other events, and

77
00:03:35,960 --> 00:03:38,160
Speaker 1: you know, phones have gotten so good. I'm taking good

78
00:03:38,160 --> 00:03:40,640
Speaker 1: pictus of my kids all the time, so plus, you know,

79
00:03:40,720 --> 00:03:43,200
Speaker 1: a good photographer, and anytime our families get together and

80
00:03:43,200 --> 00:03:45,080
Speaker 1: I bring along the camera, we always try to get

81
00:03:45,120 --> 00:03:46,880
Speaker 1: a decent family shot or try to get all the

82
00:03:46,880 --> 00:03:48,840
Speaker 1: girls together, get them smiling, looking in the right direction

83
00:03:48,880 --> 00:03:51,440
Speaker 1: and that that works pretty well. Yeah, so I think

84
00:03:51,480 --> 00:03:54,040
Speaker 1: if you're sitting there between the ferns, like looking all perfect,

85
00:03:54,400 --> 00:03:56,120
Speaker 1: but it's a little more real life when they're kind

86
00:03:56,120 --> 00:03:59,160
Speaker 1: of screaming on each other in in mid slap. Yeah yeah,

87
00:03:59,200 --> 00:04:02,600
Speaker 1: I know, right, get the lifelike poses of just crazy

88
00:04:02,600 --> 00:04:05,040
Speaker 1: things happening. But yeah, I think for people that get

89
00:04:05,080 --> 00:04:08,480
Speaker 1: that email about getting their kids school pictures, certainly, sometimes

90
00:04:08,520 --> 00:04:10,560
Speaker 1: you want those little wallet sized pictures. You want to

91
00:04:10,560 --> 00:04:11,760
Speaker 1: be able to hand them out to your friends and

92
00:04:11,800 --> 00:04:14,280
Speaker 1: family members. And we've gotten them too before and they

93
00:04:14,320 --> 00:04:17,040
Speaker 1: make great gifts oftentimes the four by sixes. Put them

94
00:04:17,080 --> 00:04:19,240
Speaker 1: in a frame, give them to grandma, that kind of thing.

95
00:04:19,560 --> 00:04:21,960
Speaker 1: But just don't feel obligated like you have to, especially

96
00:04:22,000 --> 00:04:23,839
Speaker 1: if you already have good picks of of your kids

97
00:04:24,080 --> 00:04:26,159
Speaker 1: from other outings. Yeah, and a quick tip if you

98
00:04:26,200 --> 00:04:28,080
Speaker 1: do want to go ahead and purchase those pictures is

99
00:04:28,120 --> 00:04:30,159
Speaker 1: to see if you can purchase the digital file. A

100
00:04:30,160 --> 00:04:32,960
Speaker 1: lot of times they'll charge a certain amount, maybe even

101
00:04:33,120 --> 00:04:35,520
Speaker 1: five bucks more than than one of the more expensive prints,

102
00:04:35,520 --> 00:04:37,919
Speaker 1: So like an eight by ten might be like thirty bucks,

103
00:04:37,920 --> 00:04:39,760
Speaker 1: like I mentioned, but you can get the file for

104
00:04:39,880 --> 00:04:42,760
Speaker 1: thirty five bucks. Always up for that because you can

105
00:04:42,760 --> 00:04:44,479
Speaker 1: spend a little bit more and then you have that

106
00:04:44,560 --> 00:04:46,680
Speaker 1: file and you can obviously do whatever you want with it.

107
00:04:46,920 --> 00:04:50,240
Speaker 1: But then go to a website like m picks dot com.

108
00:04:50,320 --> 00:04:53,400
Speaker 1: That's m p i x dot com and they're a

109
00:04:53,400 --> 00:04:55,560
Speaker 1: fantastic lab where you can get some really high quality

110
00:04:55,600 --> 00:04:59,599
Speaker 1: prints at a consumer price point. But at the same time,

111
00:05:00,120 --> 00:05:03,159
Speaker 1: lab is it's really good. They've got an entire professional

112
00:05:03,200 --> 00:05:05,279
Speaker 1: line and a lot of the professional photographers that I

113
00:05:05,360 --> 00:05:08,839
Speaker 1: know use them for their professional fancy prints that they're

114
00:05:08,839 --> 00:05:10,920
Speaker 1: able to up charge and obviously make a profit. I

115
00:05:10,960 --> 00:05:12,560
Speaker 1: don't want to give away all the secrets, but yeah,

116
00:05:12,640 --> 00:05:14,640
Speaker 1: check out MPIs dot com. Good to get some of

117
00:05:14,680 --> 00:05:17,840
Speaker 1: that insider knowledge, all right, I like it. Okay, let's

118
00:05:18,120 --> 00:05:20,719
Speaker 1: quickly mention the beer that we're having on the show today, Matt.

119
00:05:21,080 --> 00:05:24,760
Speaker 1: This is maple Vanilla Copra Kai, another one by Southern

120
00:05:24,800 --> 00:05:27,640
Speaker 1: Grist Brewing Company. And thanks to Jamie for sending us

121
00:05:27,680 --> 00:05:29,760
Speaker 1: peers yet again. This is the second one this week.

122
00:05:30,000 --> 00:05:32,680
Speaker 1: What's the deal with copra Kai? So like cobra Kai,

123
00:05:32,880 --> 00:05:35,800
Speaker 1: Like that's a karate kid. Yeah, and so it's like

124
00:05:35,839 --> 00:05:37,960
Speaker 1: the do they do copro with the p Just so

125
00:05:38,040 --> 00:05:40,919
Speaker 1: that they don't get sued. Probably, okay, that's my assumption.

126
00:05:41,760 --> 00:05:43,560
Speaker 1: That was Okay, is there what or I didn't know

127
00:05:43,560 --> 00:05:45,800
Speaker 1: if copra kai was an actual thing like something different,

128
00:05:45,880 --> 00:05:47,680
Speaker 1: not that I know of, But you know what, I'm

129
00:05:47,680 --> 00:05:49,200
Speaker 1: gonna reach back around to Jamie and ask him why

130
00:05:49,200 --> 00:05:50,760
Speaker 1: they named it. That you should also ask him how

131
00:05:50,760 --> 00:05:52,760
Speaker 1: he made this delicious beer because it smells like an

132
00:05:52,880 --> 00:05:55,360
Speaker 1: entire dessert in my glass right here. So I'm excited

133
00:05:55,400 --> 00:05:57,159
Speaker 1: for us to talk about this at the end of

134
00:05:57,160 --> 00:06:00,960
Speaker 1: the episode. Yeah, Bouquet flavors. Alright, Matt out onto the

135
00:06:01,040 --> 00:06:03,800
Speaker 1: topic at hand, and we're discussing the best way to

136
00:06:03,800 --> 00:06:06,919
Speaker 1: pay down debt. We're debating the debt snowball versus debt

137
00:06:07,000 --> 00:06:10,919
Speaker 1: avalanche approach. And the problem is that Americans are in

138
00:06:11,000 --> 00:06:14,320
Speaker 1: debt and lots of it, student loan debt, car loan debt,

139
00:06:14,480 --> 00:06:17,680
Speaker 1: credit card debt, mortgage debt, and it can be overwhelming

140
00:06:18,200 --> 00:06:20,800
Speaker 1: and acting that debt in your life takes a toll

141
00:06:20,839 --> 00:06:23,080
Speaker 1: not only off of your money issues, but it takes

142
00:06:23,120 --> 00:06:25,320
Speaker 1: a massive weight off your mind. And there was a

143
00:06:25,360 --> 00:06:27,800
Speaker 1: study that they did in Singapore recently that found that

144
00:06:27,800 --> 00:06:31,480
Speaker 1: folks who had massive mortgage utility and municipal debt paid

145
00:06:31,480 --> 00:06:35,520
Speaker 1: down by a charity, they performed better in cognitive function tests.

146
00:06:35,960 --> 00:06:40,760
Speaker 1: Anxiety disorders massively decreased, and the ability to forego instant

147
00:06:40,760 --> 00:06:44,919
Speaker 1: gratification also increased. So not having this debt in your life,

148
00:06:45,240 --> 00:06:47,479
Speaker 1: not only does it make your finances start to dear,

149
00:06:47,680 --> 00:06:49,680
Speaker 1: it makes your brain function better. And I just thought

150
00:06:49,680 --> 00:06:51,960
Speaker 1: that was like fascinating that having a lot of debt

151
00:06:51,960 --> 00:06:55,800
Speaker 1: in our lives has terrible effects on our brains. Yeah, Joel.

152
00:06:55,839 --> 00:06:57,760
Speaker 1: One of the things they mentioned was that how the

153
00:06:58,080 --> 00:07:00,880
Speaker 1: real cost of being in some stantial amounts of debt,

154
00:07:00,920 --> 00:07:03,800
Speaker 1: like that, how it's not completely reflected in the numbers.

155
00:07:03,839 --> 00:07:05,720
Speaker 1: It's not completely reflected in how much you owe or

156
00:07:05,760 --> 00:07:08,159
Speaker 1: how much you make or your net worth. You see

157
00:07:08,160 --> 00:07:10,800
Speaker 1: it as well, like like you said, in your mental health.

158
00:07:11,000 --> 00:07:14,880
Speaker 1: And it's unfortunate that that total effects is oftentimes overlooked

159
00:07:14,880 --> 00:07:17,520
Speaker 1: because it is mental. But fact is, you know, no

160
00:07:17,600 --> 00:07:20,040
Speaker 1: one in all likelihood is gonna be showing up to

161
00:07:20,040 --> 00:07:22,600
Speaker 1: pay off your debt. And we don't take the stance

162
00:07:22,640 --> 00:07:25,720
Speaker 1: that all debt is bad, but if you are rolling

163
00:07:25,760 --> 00:07:29,080
Speaker 1: in consumer debts and that's stressing you out, Assessing which

164
00:07:29,080 --> 00:07:32,280
Speaker 1: of the different strategies to take can be helpful. Yeah,

165
00:07:32,280 --> 00:07:35,120
Speaker 1: because the quicker you can eliminate even just one debt

166
00:07:35,160 --> 00:07:37,680
Speaker 1: out of your life. Right, there's that breathing room. It's

167
00:07:37,680 --> 00:07:40,800
Speaker 1: gonna lessen your overall anxiety in relation to your debt.

168
00:07:41,160 --> 00:07:42,720
Speaker 1: And first we want to mention that if you're in

169
00:07:42,920 --> 00:07:46,280
Speaker 1: overwhelming amounts of debt, well it's really important to consider

170
00:07:46,320 --> 00:07:49,520
Speaker 1: getting credit counseling from a place like NFCC and you

171
00:07:49,520 --> 00:07:51,920
Speaker 1: can check them out at NFCC dot org. And if

172
00:07:51,960 --> 00:07:55,560
Speaker 1: your debt exceeds fift of your annual income, well that

173
00:07:55,760 --> 00:07:57,480
Speaker 1: is in all likelihood the best place for you to

174
00:07:57,560 --> 00:08:00,320
Speaker 1: head to get some free credit counseling from your local

175
00:08:00,400 --> 00:08:04,040
Speaker 1: NFCC affiliate. One other thing to consider before you know,

176
00:08:04,040 --> 00:08:05,840
Speaker 1: we kind of dive into the different approaches to paying

177
00:08:05,840 --> 00:08:08,480
Speaker 1: down debt. But let's talk for a second to about

178
00:08:08,520 --> 00:08:11,200
Speaker 1: your interest rate. If you have a good amount of debts,

179
00:08:11,400 --> 00:08:14,560
Speaker 1: you want to consider a balanced transfer. Credit cards will

180
00:08:14,560 --> 00:08:17,880
Speaker 1: oftentimes offer a zero percent for elemented amount of time.

181
00:08:18,280 --> 00:08:20,680
Speaker 1: Transferring your debt over to a new card like that

182
00:08:20,720 --> 00:08:23,520
Speaker 1: will allow you some breathing room, give you some time

183
00:08:23,560 --> 00:08:25,320
Speaker 1: to kind of figure out your approach and how you

184
00:08:25,360 --> 00:08:27,200
Speaker 1: are going to pay down your debt. If you can't

185
00:08:27,200 --> 00:08:29,520
Speaker 1: find a good balance transfer, consider calling your credit card

186
00:08:29,520 --> 00:08:32,920
Speaker 1: company directly and see if you can get your interest

187
00:08:33,000 --> 00:08:35,000
Speaker 1: rate lowered. From that same point, it's good to kind

188
00:08:35,000 --> 00:08:37,439
Speaker 1: of go into those conversations with some knowledge. You want

189
00:08:37,440 --> 00:08:39,640
Speaker 1: to do your homework ahead of time. But we've talked

190
00:08:39,640 --> 00:08:41,720
Speaker 1: about this before, Joel, but it never hurts to ask,

191
00:08:41,960 --> 00:08:43,559
Speaker 1: and you're not going to get that lower interest rate

192
00:08:43,880 --> 00:08:46,280
Speaker 1: uh and pay less unless you ask for it. So

193
00:08:46,320 --> 00:08:48,280
Speaker 1: in a minute, we're gonna talk about the debt snowball.

194
00:08:48,280 --> 00:08:50,680
Speaker 1: We're gonna talk about the debt avalanche, some pros and

195
00:08:50,720 --> 00:08:53,280
Speaker 1: cons to both, But first we're gonna take a quick break.

196
00:09:01,880 --> 00:09:04,400
Speaker 1: All right, Matt, let's get right into it. First. We'll

197
00:09:04,400 --> 00:09:07,880
Speaker 1: talk about the debt snowball approach. And this approach is

198
00:09:08,040 --> 00:09:13,160
Speaker 1: all about psychology, not as much about math, but psychology,

199
00:09:13,200 --> 00:09:15,240
Speaker 1: as it turns out, is crucial when it comes to

200
00:09:15,320 --> 00:09:18,160
Speaker 1: how we handle our money. In fact, it's often more

201
00:09:18,200 --> 00:09:21,240
Speaker 1: important than just the nuts and bolts and knowing how

202
00:09:21,280 --> 00:09:23,360
Speaker 1: the math works. And in fact, just like we talked

203
00:09:23,360 --> 00:09:25,559
Speaker 1: about with that Singapore study that we mentioned at the

204
00:09:25,600 --> 00:09:28,080
Speaker 1: beginning of the show, it's pretty obvious that debt has

205
00:09:28,120 --> 00:09:31,560
Speaker 1: a clear effect on our psyche, and the debt snowball

206
00:09:31,600 --> 00:09:34,760
Speaker 1: approach is actually an attempt to kind of maximize positive

207
00:09:34,800 --> 00:09:38,360
Speaker 1: psychological impact of debt paid down as opposed to the

208
00:09:38,880 --> 00:09:43,680
Speaker 1: mathematical and financial best approach to paying down your debt. Yeah,

209
00:09:43,760 --> 00:09:46,560
Speaker 1: this is the Dave Ramsey approach. And the argument often

210
00:09:46,640 --> 00:09:49,040
Speaker 1: goes is that if it's all about the math, then

211
00:09:49,080 --> 00:09:50,920
Speaker 1: you wouldn't be in debt in the first place. You know,

212
00:09:50,960 --> 00:09:53,280
Speaker 1: if you're paying attention to the numbers, the interest rates

213
00:09:53,320 --> 00:09:55,560
Speaker 1: the debt, you would know from the very outset that

214
00:09:55,640 --> 00:09:57,439
Speaker 1: going into debt isn't going to work out for you.

215
00:09:57,800 --> 00:09:59,920
Speaker 1: And so let's go ahead now and talk about the

216
00:10:00,000 --> 00:10:02,480
Speaker 1: way it works and the debt snowball approach. You are

217
00:10:02,480 --> 00:10:05,000
Speaker 1: going to pay the minimums on all your balances, but

218
00:10:05,080 --> 00:10:08,000
Speaker 1: then you're going to attack and pay off your debt

219
00:10:08,440 --> 00:10:13,439
Speaker 1: with the smallest balance first. Once that debt is eliminated completely,

220
00:10:13,720 --> 00:10:16,200
Speaker 1: you get to roll those payments that we're going to

221
00:10:16,280 --> 00:10:19,559
Speaker 1: that small debt to the debt with the next smallest balance.

222
00:10:19,840 --> 00:10:22,240
Speaker 1: And so it's called the debt snowball effect because essentially,

223
00:10:22,280 --> 00:10:24,280
Speaker 1: think of you know, you start off with a small

224
00:10:24,320 --> 00:10:26,400
Speaker 1: balance and then you roll it over to the next

225
00:10:26,559 --> 00:10:28,920
Speaker 1: largest balance and it gets bigger and bigger and bigger,

226
00:10:29,280 --> 00:10:31,760
Speaker 1: not unlike a snowball that you're rolling down the hill.

227
00:10:32,160 --> 00:10:36,720
Speaker 1: Makes sense, Yeah, it's I mean really psychologically that makes

228
00:10:36,760 --> 00:10:38,560
Speaker 1: a lot of sense, right, because let's say you have

229
00:10:38,600 --> 00:10:41,440
Speaker 1: seven overall debts that you're looking to pay off, and

230
00:10:41,520 --> 00:10:43,199
Speaker 1: you get a quick win by paying the first one

231
00:10:43,240 --> 00:10:45,280
Speaker 1: off because the balance is super low. It feels good,

232
00:10:45,400 --> 00:10:47,880
Speaker 1: It feels good, and then you're motivated to do just

233
00:10:47,920 --> 00:10:50,480
Speaker 1: a little bit more and you actually have a little

234
00:10:50,520 --> 00:10:53,240
Speaker 1: bit more money then to put towards that second debt

235
00:10:53,480 --> 00:10:56,480
Speaker 1: because that the other one, that first one, it's gone. Now, yeah,

236
00:10:56,679 --> 00:10:58,320
Speaker 1: you don't just have more money to put towards it,

237
00:10:58,320 --> 00:10:59,959
Speaker 1: but you have more steam, like you've got that one

238
00:11:00,000 --> 00:11:02,360
Speaker 1: men um rolling to Yeah. Completely, So I think this

239
00:11:02,440 --> 00:11:05,000
Speaker 1: path can provide wins more quickly along the way, can

240
00:11:05,120 --> 00:11:09,400
Speaker 1: keep you motivated, and interestingly enough, the most studies actually

241
00:11:09,400 --> 00:11:12,640
Speaker 1: show that the results are more favorable with a debt

242
00:11:12,760 --> 00:11:16,400
Speaker 1: snowball approach than the debt avalanche approach, which makes sense

243
00:11:16,440 --> 00:11:19,480
Speaker 1: because when we're factoring in the psychology of how we

244
00:11:19,520 --> 00:11:22,000
Speaker 1: approach our money and our debts, I mean, this is

245
00:11:22,040 --> 00:11:25,280
Speaker 1: the kind of strategy that keeps someone engaged towards paying

246
00:11:25,320 --> 00:11:28,520
Speaker 1: down their debts as quickly as possible, whereas the debt avalanche,

247
00:11:28,559 --> 00:11:30,640
Speaker 1: which we're gonna talk about in just a second, doesn't

248
00:11:30,840 --> 00:11:33,440
Speaker 1: quite have that same effect. Yeah, those are the legit

249
00:11:33,480 --> 00:11:36,240
Speaker 1: studies to like Harvard, you know, all the good schools,

250
00:11:36,320 --> 00:11:38,560
Speaker 1: not the not the crappy schools. And one my Kanasas

251
00:11:38,600 --> 00:11:40,560
Speaker 1: State University coming out with that. You know, how don't

252
00:11:40,559 --> 00:11:42,680
Speaker 1: you hate k s U. Dog that's a good spot.

253
00:11:42,920 --> 00:11:45,360
Speaker 1: So the debt snowball it makes the most sense from

254
00:11:45,360 --> 00:11:48,120
Speaker 1: my psychological standpoint, but it doesn't when it comes to

255
00:11:48,120 --> 00:11:50,560
Speaker 1: the number's jole. And that's when sort of the math

256
00:11:50,679 --> 00:11:53,000
Speaker 1: nerds will jump all over your case. And what they

257
00:11:53,000 --> 00:11:55,520
Speaker 1: would propose is for you to look at the debt avalanche.

258
00:11:55,920 --> 00:11:57,679
Speaker 1: So why don't you tell us about that? All right?

259
00:11:57,760 --> 00:12:02,240
Speaker 1: So the debt avalanche is all about math and not psychology,

260
00:12:02,320 --> 00:12:05,199
Speaker 1: so kind of the complete opposite of the debt snowball approach.

261
00:12:05,520 --> 00:12:08,560
Speaker 1: When you take the debt avalanche approach again, you're still

262
00:12:08,600 --> 00:12:11,160
Speaker 1: paying the minimums on every single balance except for one.

263
00:12:11,600 --> 00:12:14,160
Speaker 1: But the debt that you're prioritizing paying off is the

264
00:12:14,200 --> 00:12:16,720
Speaker 1: debt that has the highest interest rate, as opposed to

265
00:12:16,800 --> 00:12:19,800
Speaker 1: your debt that has the lowest overall balance, And there's

266
00:12:19,800 --> 00:12:22,560
Speaker 1: certainly a chance that your highest interest rate debt could

267
00:12:22,559 --> 00:12:24,880
Speaker 1: also be your lowest balance, in which case win win.

268
00:12:24,960 --> 00:12:27,400
Speaker 1: You're kind of tackling both methods at the same time.

269
00:12:27,679 --> 00:12:30,800
Speaker 1: But yeah, the debt avalanche approach is for the math

270
00:12:30,880 --> 00:12:33,920
Speaker 1: nerds out there that can still be just as focused

271
00:12:33,920 --> 00:12:37,800
Speaker 1: paying off debt without that psychological benefit of paying off

272
00:12:38,160 --> 00:12:41,080
Speaker 1: certain debts more quickly. All right, Joel, quick question for you.

273
00:12:41,120 --> 00:12:45,480
Speaker 1: Then the snow metaphor with the snowball makes sense, right,

274
00:12:45,559 --> 00:12:48,600
Speaker 1: Like you've got your quickly gaining steam starting off with

275
00:12:48,640 --> 00:12:51,319
Speaker 1: a small little snowball, and it rolls over and gets

276
00:12:51,360 --> 00:12:54,440
Speaker 1: bigger and bigger and bigger. That equates to the size

277
00:12:54,480 --> 00:12:58,520
Speaker 1: of the debt that you're attacking. But how does it

278
00:12:58,559 --> 00:13:00,679
Speaker 1: work with the avalanche then? I guess like you're starting

279
00:13:00,720 --> 00:13:03,880
Speaker 1: off big? Yeah, I guess so. I don't necessarily think

280
00:13:03,920 --> 00:13:07,160
Speaker 1: that that, uh, that perfect metaphor. No, it's definitely an

281
00:13:07,160 --> 00:13:09,320
Speaker 1: imperfect metaphor, that's for sure. And I don't know where

282
00:13:09,480 --> 00:13:11,480
Speaker 1: if there's like any like yellow snow involved in this

283
00:13:11,520 --> 00:13:14,440
Speaker 1: metamor or anything like that. I think those are like

284
00:13:14,480 --> 00:13:17,599
Speaker 1: tidle loans completely away from the gotcha. I think we

285
00:13:17,640 --> 00:13:20,199
Speaker 1: could probably come up with some other really cool metaphors

286
00:13:20,240 --> 00:13:22,199
Speaker 1: when it comes to snow for paying down your debt.

287
00:13:22,480 --> 00:13:24,040
Speaker 1: But yeah, I think someone just kind of tried to

288
00:13:24,040 --> 00:13:26,240
Speaker 1: come up with a cute alternative to the debt snowball.

289
00:13:26,600 --> 00:13:28,320
Speaker 1: But with avalanche, I guess you're kind of focusing on

290
00:13:28,320 --> 00:13:30,520
Speaker 1: the large interest rates, kind of going after the big

291
00:13:30,559 --> 00:13:32,640
Speaker 1: impact stuff first, and then by the end of it,

292
00:13:32,640 --> 00:13:34,760
Speaker 1: you're kind of focusing you know, I guess the end

293
00:13:34,800 --> 00:13:36,440
Speaker 1: of the avalanche, there's just a little bit of snow

294
00:13:36,440 --> 00:13:38,360
Speaker 1: trickling down the mountain at the very end, and maybe

295
00:13:38,360 --> 00:13:40,600
Speaker 1: that's your smaller interest rate loans that kind of dies

296
00:13:40,640 --> 00:13:44,080
Speaker 1: out right. Yeah. Yeah, So really, the debt avalanche approach,

297
00:13:44,400 --> 00:13:47,360
Speaker 1: it could prevent you from attacking your debt as intently

298
00:13:47,640 --> 00:13:50,520
Speaker 1: as you might otherwise be inclined to do. But if

299
00:13:50,559 --> 00:13:52,840
Speaker 1: you are a really good planner and you can stay

300
00:13:52,880 --> 00:13:55,880
Speaker 1: the course, well, the debt avalanche, or sometimes it's also

301
00:13:55,960 --> 00:13:58,840
Speaker 1: called debt laddering, well that's likely the best approach for

302
00:13:58,880 --> 00:14:01,880
Speaker 1: you because you're going to pay off your debts in

303
00:14:02,040 --> 00:14:04,400
Speaker 1: a little bit less time, and you're gonna pay less

304
00:14:04,520 --> 00:14:08,440
Speaker 1: overall in interest to your creditors, so Joel. Overall, if

305
00:14:08,440 --> 00:14:10,199
Speaker 1: I had to pick like one over the other, I

306
00:14:10,240 --> 00:14:12,280
Speaker 1: think I'm gonna end up on like on team snowball

307
00:14:12,600 --> 00:14:15,240
Speaker 1: because for most people, even though it doesn't make the

308
00:14:15,280 --> 00:14:17,760
Speaker 1: most sense from a financial standpoint, when you're only looking

309
00:14:17,800 --> 00:14:20,320
Speaker 1: at the numbers, Like we said earlier, it's not all

310
00:14:20,360 --> 00:14:23,800
Speaker 1: about the numbers. There's so much psychology involved. And I

311
00:14:23,800 --> 00:14:25,920
Speaker 1: think for a lot of people, in particular, if you're

312
00:14:25,920 --> 00:14:28,200
Speaker 1: struggling with debt and you've been working for a while

313
00:14:28,280 --> 00:14:30,320
Speaker 1: at trying to pay down your debt, I think in

314
00:14:30,360 --> 00:14:33,440
Speaker 1: those cases specifically, that the debt snowball is where it's at. Yeah,

315
00:14:33,480 --> 00:14:35,480
Speaker 1: I think up until probably last year, I would have

316
00:14:35,520 --> 00:14:37,640
Speaker 1: been team Avalanche all the way, and I would have

317
00:14:37,800 --> 00:14:40,640
Speaker 1: all about the numbers. I would completely disagreed with you,

318
00:14:40,920 --> 00:14:43,240
Speaker 1: because I do think, like, why would you pay more

319
00:14:43,240 --> 00:14:46,040
Speaker 1: in interest than you have to? I don't like that idea.

320
00:14:46,320 --> 00:14:48,480
Speaker 1: I don't like the idea of paying down a five

321
00:14:48,520 --> 00:14:51,880
Speaker 1: percent debt first when you have a nine credit card

322
00:14:52,120 --> 00:14:54,560
Speaker 1: chilling there like that. That doesn't make any sense to me.

323
00:14:54,720 --> 00:14:56,800
Speaker 1: And so I think I still probably reside a little

324
00:14:56,840 --> 00:14:59,960
Speaker 1: bit more on team Avalanche side and paying off your

325
00:15:00,040 --> 00:15:02,720
Speaker 1: highest interest rate debts as quickly as possible, and then

326
00:15:02,760 --> 00:15:05,880
Speaker 1: moving on to those lower interest rate debts. But yeah, recently,

327
00:15:06,120 --> 00:15:08,920
Speaker 1: one of the loan balances on one of my rental

328
00:15:08,960 --> 00:15:12,560
Speaker 1: properties is getting pretty low, and it's are you feeling it?

329
00:15:13,000 --> 00:15:14,720
Speaker 1: I am to pay it off? I am. But the

330
00:15:14,760 --> 00:15:17,360
Speaker 1: thing is, the interest rate is so low that it

331
00:15:17,400 --> 00:15:19,960
Speaker 1: really doesn't make sense for me to prioritize the payoff,

332
00:15:20,280 --> 00:15:22,280
Speaker 1: and so I'm just having to kind of sit on

333
00:15:22,360 --> 00:15:24,680
Speaker 1: my hands and forget about it and not even remind

334
00:15:24,680 --> 00:15:27,760
Speaker 1: myself that we're getting to that point because there are

335
00:15:27,800 --> 00:15:30,280
Speaker 1: other priorities in my life. I don't want to focus

336
00:15:30,280 --> 00:15:32,560
Speaker 1: on that at this point in time. It would make

337
00:15:32,560 --> 00:15:34,960
Speaker 1: more sense for me to put my hard earned dollars

338
00:15:35,080 --> 00:15:38,480
Speaker 1: towards the market. Yeah, towards in the market, or towards

339
00:15:38,520 --> 00:15:41,760
Speaker 1: a higher interest rate loan that I have on another

340
00:15:41,800 --> 00:15:45,600
Speaker 1: rental property. But I completely understand the itch, especially as

341
00:15:45,640 --> 00:15:48,360
Speaker 1: you get close to paying something off, it just kind of, oh,

342
00:15:48,440 --> 00:15:50,400
Speaker 1: you want to just finish it off. I think it

343
00:15:50,800 --> 00:15:53,480
Speaker 1: is a difficult decision, but really picking your path and

344
00:15:53,520 --> 00:15:55,560
Speaker 1: sticking to it makes a whole lot of sense. Yeah,

345
00:15:55,560 --> 00:15:58,200
Speaker 1: And I'll argue in favor of the debt avalanche because

346
00:15:58,240 --> 00:16:00,800
Speaker 1: I think there's are some situations where it does make sense,

347
00:16:01,000 --> 00:16:03,560
Speaker 1: because the argument will go against it that well, if

348
00:16:03,560 --> 00:16:05,520
Speaker 1: you're paying attention to the numbers, right, you like you

349
00:16:05,520 --> 00:16:07,720
Speaker 1: would have never ended up in debt in the first place.

350
00:16:08,080 --> 00:16:10,000
Speaker 1: But I think there are a lot of folks who

351
00:16:10,360 --> 00:16:12,200
Speaker 1: for a period in their life, maybe when they were younger,

352
00:16:12,320 --> 00:16:14,360
Speaker 1: they didn't they didn't pay attention to the numbers. They

353
00:16:14,360 --> 00:16:17,000
Speaker 1: didn't pay attention to how much they're spending, how much

354
00:16:17,040 --> 00:16:19,360
Speaker 1: debt they were accruing, and there's a moment where they

355
00:16:19,360 --> 00:16:21,720
Speaker 1: wake up. They kind of have an enlightening, whether that

356
00:16:21,840 --> 00:16:24,560
Speaker 1: be uh, they're getting married, or they read a great book,

357
00:16:24,760 --> 00:16:26,360
Speaker 1: or they see maybe what their friends are doing with

358
00:16:26,400 --> 00:16:28,560
Speaker 1: their money, and all of a sudden they're realizing that, oh,

359
00:16:28,600 --> 00:16:30,840
Speaker 1: wait a minute, I'm doing some terrible things with my money.

360
00:16:31,240 --> 00:16:33,480
Speaker 1: And in those cases where there's a switch, like when

361
00:16:33,520 --> 00:16:36,400
Speaker 1: something happens like that and the the lights kind of

362
00:16:36,400 --> 00:16:38,720
Speaker 1: turn on in their head, if they can be disciplined

363
00:16:38,760 --> 00:16:42,080
Speaker 1: and stick with their plan, I think the debt avalanche

364
00:16:42,080 --> 00:16:44,680
Speaker 1: makes total sense in those scenarios. Matt, that's a good point.

365
00:16:44,680 --> 00:16:46,880
Speaker 1: And you know what, I think there might actually be

366
00:16:46,960 --> 00:16:50,240
Speaker 1: a third option here for people something to consider. And

367
00:16:50,280 --> 00:16:52,200
Speaker 1: I don't think I've ever heard anyone else ever talk

368
00:16:52,240 --> 00:16:54,280
Speaker 1: about this, and we should kind of come up with

369
00:16:54,280 --> 00:16:57,160
Speaker 1: our own name for it, maybe the debt snow lanch

370
00:16:57,760 --> 00:17:00,920
Speaker 1: uh snow Cone method. So it's kind of a little

371
00:17:00,920 --> 00:17:02,920
Speaker 1: more hybrid approach. And we will tell you what we

372
00:17:03,000 --> 00:17:13,920
Speaker 1: mean by that right after the break. All right, Matt,

373
00:17:13,960 --> 00:17:16,280
Speaker 1: in a second, we're going to talk about how to

374
00:17:16,400 --> 00:17:19,560
Speaker 1: actually begin these methods, how to implement them into your

375
00:17:19,560 --> 00:17:22,520
Speaker 1: lives in order to kind of start crushing that debt.

376
00:17:22,800 --> 00:17:24,639
Speaker 1: But first let's kind of talk about this hybrid approach

377
00:17:24,680 --> 00:17:27,240
Speaker 1: that we think might make a lot of sense for folks. Yeah, Joel,

378
00:17:27,400 --> 00:17:29,359
Speaker 1: you know, it is a sort of a hybrid approach,

379
00:17:29,359 --> 00:17:31,520
Speaker 1: and you know, I don't think we're original thinkers here.

380
00:17:31,800 --> 00:17:33,639
Speaker 1: Sure a lot of folks have done this, but paying

381
00:17:33,680 --> 00:17:35,760
Speaker 1: off that really high interest rate debt first and then

382
00:17:35,760 --> 00:17:39,840
Speaker 1: prioritize those balances that have the smaller balances next. For instance,

383
00:17:39,920 --> 00:17:41,880
Speaker 1: high in straight credit card debt that you might have,

384
00:17:42,240 --> 00:17:44,800
Speaker 1: that's what you're gonna want to cut most quickly. In

385
00:17:44,840 --> 00:17:47,520
Speaker 1: a car note at five PC isn't a priority in

386
00:17:47,560 --> 00:17:49,600
Speaker 1: the same way, But once you have those credit cards

387
00:17:49,600 --> 00:17:52,680
Speaker 1: out of the way. You can then work towards paying

388
00:17:52,720 --> 00:17:54,480
Speaker 1: off your car just to kind of be rid of

389
00:17:54,520 --> 00:17:57,439
Speaker 1: it once that balance starts getting lower, even if you

390
00:17:57,560 --> 00:18:00,600
Speaker 1: have student loan debts, say at seven percent. So I

391
00:18:00,640 --> 00:18:02,760
Speaker 1: think in this hybrid approach, what you're doing is you're saying,

392
00:18:03,080 --> 00:18:06,600
Speaker 1: what's the disparity and interest rate between that and the

393
00:18:06,600 --> 00:18:08,760
Speaker 1: rest of my debts, And if it's a big disparity,

394
00:18:08,800 --> 00:18:10,560
Speaker 1: like if you have that one credit card that's at

395
00:18:10,640 --> 00:18:15,520
Speaker 1: nineteen interest, you're going to want to prioritize that first,

396
00:18:15,880 --> 00:18:18,200
Speaker 1: no matter what if all the rest of your debts

397
00:18:18,359 --> 00:18:21,680
Speaker 1: fall in that five to seven percent range exactly. Basically

398
00:18:21,720 --> 00:18:24,640
Speaker 1: you're looking for an outlier that you want to eliminate first. Yeah,

399
00:18:24,680 --> 00:18:27,280
Speaker 1: and then it doesn't really matter what your order is

400
00:18:27,480 --> 00:18:29,680
Speaker 1: after you pay that one off first, Right, it doesn't

401
00:18:29,720 --> 00:18:31,879
Speaker 1: matter if you then tackle the five percent debt instead

402
00:18:31,920 --> 00:18:35,440
Speaker 1: of the seven percent debt. That's okay, that's less meaningful

403
00:18:35,480 --> 00:18:37,720
Speaker 1: in the grand scheme of things. But paying off that

404
00:18:38,000 --> 00:18:40,520
Speaker 1: really high interest rate debt as quickly as possible, that's

405
00:18:40,520 --> 00:18:42,400
Speaker 1: going to help move the needles that you pay less

406
00:18:42,480 --> 00:18:45,960
Speaker 1: interest overall. Yeah. What those same studies, with that same

407
00:18:46,000 --> 00:18:48,639
Speaker 1: research show though, is that it does matter for you

408
00:18:48,680 --> 00:18:52,160
Speaker 1: to make sure and focus on a single debts. Those

409
00:18:52,200 --> 00:18:54,560
Speaker 1: who trying to kind of spread out their payments not

410
00:18:54,600 --> 00:18:57,359
Speaker 1: just the minimums, but kind of additional payments across a

411
00:18:57,400 --> 00:19:00,360
Speaker 1: whole sort of portfolio of debts that they had were

412
00:19:00,440 --> 00:19:03,159
Speaker 1: much less likely to successfully get out of debt versus

413
00:19:03,800 --> 00:19:07,800
Speaker 1: paying towards a specific debt with laser light focus. Regardless

414
00:19:07,840 --> 00:19:09,679
Speaker 1: of the approach, so you could be paying towards the

415
00:19:09,680 --> 00:19:11,800
Speaker 1: balance that was the smallest, or you could be paying

416
00:19:11,840 --> 00:19:14,760
Speaker 1: down the balance that had the highest interest rate, doesn't

417
00:19:14,760 --> 00:19:17,000
Speaker 1: really matter. As long as you were focusing on that

418
00:19:17,080 --> 00:19:20,879
Speaker 1: one singular debts, you had a much higher chance of

419
00:19:20,920 --> 00:19:23,560
Speaker 1: getting out of debt altogether. And this again goes back

420
00:19:23,600 --> 00:19:25,399
Speaker 1: to that same study, Joel. But the weight and the

421
00:19:25,440 --> 00:19:28,480
Speaker 1: impact that multiple debts like that can have on you mentally,

422
00:19:28,600 --> 00:19:30,440
Speaker 1: it's just draining, is it's it's you know. One of

423
00:19:30,480 --> 00:19:32,280
Speaker 1: the things they mentioned in the article as well was

424
00:19:32,320 --> 00:19:35,639
Speaker 1: that how it's a bandwidth tax that kind of SAPs

425
00:19:35,720 --> 00:19:38,960
Speaker 1: on your mental energies and your ability to think straight

426
00:19:39,000 --> 00:19:42,199
Speaker 1: to perform normal tasks effectively. And certainly we've seen this

427
00:19:42,240 --> 00:19:43,639
Speaker 1: in other areas in our life as well, when we

428
00:19:43,640 --> 00:19:46,439
Speaker 1: try to multitask do multiple things all at once, Chances

429
00:19:46,480 --> 00:19:49,080
Speaker 1: are you're not gonna do any of those things that well.

430
00:19:49,359 --> 00:19:51,240
Speaker 1: But the interesting thing is, we all think we know

431
00:19:51,280 --> 00:19:53,359
Speaker 1: how to do it. It's true, we all think we're

432
00:19:53,400 --> 00:19:56,040
Speaker 1: good multitaskers, but most of us actually are terrible or

433
00:19:56,119 --> 00:19:57,760
Speaker 1: terrible at it. But if you can just focus on

434
00:19:57,760 --> 00:19:59,720
Speaker 1: that one thing and does knock it out of the park,

435
00:20:00,080 --> 00:20:01,800
Speaker 1: it's just gonna be way more effective, and you're gonna

436
00:20:01,800 --> 00:20:05,080
Speaker 1: see a lot more progress happen sooner. Yeah. Man. Interestingly enough,

437
00:20:05,119 --> 00:20:06,920
Speaker 1: when you kind of crush the numbers and you look

438
00:20:06,960 --> 00:20:08,880
Speaker 1: at how long it takes people to pay off their

439
00:20:08,880 --> 00:20:12,119
Speaker 1: debts and how much overall interest they pay in the

440
00:20:12,200 --> 00:20:16,679
Speaker 1: debt snowball versus debt avalanche method, it really doesn't end

441
00:20:16,760 --> 00:20:18,680
Speaker 1: up being that big of a disparity, which I thought

442
00:20:18,760 --> 00:20:20,800
Speaker 1: was really interesting. Sounds like you're about to cross over

443
00:20:20,840 --> 00:20:24,639
Speaker 1: to the team debt snowball side. Yeah, I feel like

444
00:20:24,640 --> 00:20:28,159
Speaker 1: with psychology being such a major impact on people's continued

445
00:20:28,240 --> 00:20:31,080
Speaker 1: ability to keep going down that path of paying down

446
00:20:31,080 --> 00:20:34,440
Speaker 1: their debt, well, yeah, I mean, debt snowball actually really

447
00:20:34,440 --> 00:20:36,520
Speaker 1: does make a lot of sense, and it's interesting just

448
00:20:36,600 --> 00:20:39,080
Speaker 1: doing more research for this episode. I was kind of

449
00:20:39,119 --> 00:20:42,560
Speaker 1: struck by the fact that that psychology factor is way, way,

450
00:20:42,640 --> 00:20:45,840
Speaker 1: way more important than even I gave it credence for

451
00:20:46,080 --> 00:20:48,359
Speaker 1: in the beginning, because I mean, I know that's important.

452
00:20:48,400 --> 00:20:50,960
Speaker 1: I know that's important in personal finances, the way people think,

453
00:20:51,280 --> 00:20:53,280
Speaker 1: and just kind of those strongly held beliefs that we

454
00:20:53,280 --> 00:20:54,560
Speaker 1: have in the back of our brain that we don't

455
00:20:54,560 --> 00:20:57,600
Speaker 1: even know exist. They're huge in the way we approach

456
00:20:57,680 --> 00:21:00,440
Speaker 1: paying off debt or spending or all of those things. Right,

457
00:21:00,680 --> 00:21:03,960
Speaker 1: But I didn't realize that it's as powerful as it is.

458
00:21:04,080 --> 00:21:06,760
Speaker 1: It's kind of jarring how much power our brains have

459
00:21:06,880 --> 00:21:09,119
Speaker 1: over us when it comes to, you know, how we spend,

460
00:21:09,119 --> 00:21:10,840
Speaker 1: but then also how we paid on our debt. So

461
00:21:10,880 --> 00:21:13,159
Speaker 1: at this point, what we're saying is to have some

462
00:21:13,240 --> 00:21:17,560
Speaker 1: self awareness, know yourself enough to know which these approaches

463
00:21:17,800 --> 00:21:20,000
Speaker 1: would work the best for you, because it doesn't matter

464
00:21:20,040 --> 00:21:21,800
Speaker 1: all that much when it comes to the numbers. But

465
00:21:21,920 --> 00:21:24,840
Speaker 1: what does matter is that you actually do the deed right,

466
00:21:24,880 --> 00:21:27,000
Speaker 1: like that you finished the drill, and that you're able

467
00:21:27,040 --> 00:21:29,120
Speaker 1: to get out of that debt. Both of these approaches

468
00:21:29,119 --> 00:21:31,840
Speaker 1: can be helpful. So what's most important to you, though,

469
00:21:31,920 --> 00:21:34,200
Speaker 1: is that you prioritize paying down your debts at all

470
00:21:34,320 --> 00:21:37,400
Speaker 1: and getting started. Yeah, just a really quick thought on that, Matt.

471
00:21:37,600 --> 00:21:40,800
Speaker 1: Let's say you want to start running, but you've lacked

472
00:21:40,800 --> 00:21:43,240
Speaker 1: a little bit of the motivation. Well, there are all

473
00:21:43,240 --> 00:21:45,879
Speaker 1: these kind of little tricks that you can do in

474
00:21:46,000 --> 00:21:48,840
Speaker 1: order to make yourself more likely to actually get out

475
00:21:48,840 --> 00:21:51,680
Speaker 1: there and and run your first mile. If you lay

476
00:21:51,720 --> 00:21:54,879
Speaker 1: out your shoes and your running gear ahead of time,

477
00:21:55,119 --> 00:21:57,840
Speaker 1: before you even go to bed, well, when you wake

478
00:21:57,960 --> 00:22:00,800
Speaker 1: up and you stare at it, there's a huge chance

479
00:22:00,840 --> 00:22:02,600
Speaker 1: that you're actually gonna put it on and maybe go

480
00:22:02,680 --> 00:22:04,840
Speaker 1: for a job. But if you say no, I'll you know,

481
00:22:04,880 --> 00:22:06,760
Speaker 1: I'll get it out of the drawer in the morning, Well,

482
00:22:06,880 --> 00:22:08,960
Speaker 1: there's a good chance that you're going to sleep in.

483
00:22:09,359 --> 00:22:11,440
Speaker 1: And I think the same is true when it comes

484
00:22:11,440 --> 00:22:14,000
Speaker 1: to debt repayment. If you can get fully on board

485
00:22:14,040 --> 00:22:17,160
Speaker 1: with one strategy and actually get the ball rolling, well,

486
00:22:17,200 --> 00:22:19,280
Speaker 1: the likelihood is you're gonna stick with this and you're

487
00:22:19,280 --> 00:22:21,560
Speaker 1: gonna make progress. And once you see progress, it's going

488
00:22:21,600 --> 00:22:23,760
Speaker 1: to be a self fulfilling prophecy that you are going

489
00:22:23,800 --> 00:22:26,160
Speaker 1: to continue down that path and you're gonna crush your debt.

490
00:22:26,400 --> 00:22:28,640
Speaker 1: And so yeah, let's go through kind of helping people

491
00:22:28,680 --> 00:22:30,680
Speaker 1: figure out how to get started going down one of

492
00:22:30,720 --> 00:22:32,920
Speaker 1: these paths. So, Joel, the first step is that you

493
00:22:32,960 --> 00:22:35,479
Speaker 1: want to get organized. Go ahead and write down all

494
00:22:35,520 --> 00:22:39,040
Speaker 1: the debts that you owe, So start with the minimum payments,

495
00:22:39,359 --> 00:22:40,880
Speaker 1: but then we'll go ahead and right down your interest

496
00:22:40,960 --> 00:22:43,240
Speaker 1: rate and the total balances due for each of those debts.

497
00:22:43,359 --> 00:22:46,399
Speaker 1: Because regardless of which approach that you're gonna take, you

498
00:22:46,440 --> 00:22:48,600
Speaker 1: need to know, well what which one has the actual

499
00:22:48,600 --> 00:22:50,960
Speaker 1: smallest balance, or you need to know which one has

500
00:22:51,080 --> 00:22:54,080
Speaker 1: the largest interest rate. You gotta be organized, and Joel,

501
00:22:54,119 --> 00:22:55,640
Speaker 1: just like you mentioned kind of setting out the shoes,

502
00:22:55,640 --> 00:22:57,719
Speaker 1: setting out your gym shorts, you gotta line everything up

503
00:22:57,760 --> 00:22:59,960
Speaker 1: and have it sitting there so that you can attack it. Yeah,

504
00:23:00,000 --> 00:23:01,960
Speaker 1: and so either way you slice it, whether you're going

505
00:23:02,040 --> 00:23:05,760
Speaker 1: debt snowball or debt avalanche or that kind of hybrid approach,

506
00:23:05,840 --> 00:23:08,320
Speaker 1: the snow lanch that we talked about, creat a repayment

507
00:23:08,359 --> 00:23:11,600
Speaker 1: schedule that funnels all of your extra money towards that

508
00:23:11,680 --> 00:23:15,040
Speaker 1: debt that you're targeting. Under your favorite strategy, you're gonna

509
00:23:15,040 --> 00:23:16,679
Speaker 1: want to make sure that all of the other debts

510
00:23:16,720 --> 00:23:19,240
Speaker 1: in question that you're paying the minimums on and then

511
00:23:19,320 --> 00:23:22,560
Speaker 1: as much extra cash as you have in your budget,

512
00:23:22,720 --> 00:23:25,480
Speaker 1: you're funneling that straight towards that debt that you hate

513
00:23:25,480 --> 00:23:27,720
Speaker 1: the most that you're planning to crush. Yeah, man, knock

514
00:23:27,800 --> 00:23:30,960
Speaker 1: that thing out. And then after maybe each of those

515
00:23:30,960 --> 00:23:33,560
Speaker 1: debts that you knock out completely, it might be worth

516
00:23:33,560 --> 00:23:37,560
Speaker 1: considering rewarding yourself at that point. Don't let little mistakes

517
00:23:37,560 --> 00:23:39,960
Speaker 1: completely derail you. You want to make sure that you're

518
00:23:40,000 --> 00:23:43,040
Speaker 1: able to see some forward progress. Like That's the problem

519
00:23:43,040 --> 00:23:44,600
Speaker 1: with that is that a lot of times it can

520
00:23:44,640 --> 00:23:48,520
Speaker 1: be this invisible thing that's really tough to quantify, and

521
00:23:48,760 --> 00:23:51,600
Speaker 1: in reality, like as a human being, what you experience

522
00:23:52,280 --> 00:23:54,240
Speaker 1: is that you're depriving yourself of the things that you

523
00:23:54,320 --> 00:23:56,680
Speaker 1: used to spend money on, and you don't really feel

524
00:23:56,720 --> 00:23:59,560
Speaker 1: that you're doing anything. So sometimes having these little small

525
00:23:59,600 --> 00:24:02,680
Speaker 1: reward is a tangible way for you to remind yourself

526
00:24:02,760 --> 00:24:05,199
Speaker 1: physically that, oh, yeah, I'm paying down my debt right.

527
00:24:05,280 --> 00:24:07,280
Speaker 1: Because so much of our currency, so much of our

528
00:24:07,280 --> 00:24:10,800
Speaker 1: money today is digital, and it's not like you have

529
00:24:10,840 --> 00:24:13,479
Speaker 1: a stack of cash that's growing on your dresser and

530
00:24:13,560 --> 00:24:15,320
Speaker 1: you're able to see that and feel like you're you're

531
00:24:15,359 --> 00:24:18,000
Speaker 1: becoming better off, or that you're handling your money better.

532
00:24:18,320 --> 00:24:20,359
Speaker 1: It's just digital, it's just number that shows up on

533
00:24:20,400 --> 00:24:23,000
Speaker 1: your phone, and it can be tough sometimes to feel

534
00:24:23,040 --> 00:24:25,720
Speaker 1: the actual impact of that. Yeah, some sort of little

535
00:24:25,760 --> 00:24:29,560
Speaker 1: reward can I think help you stay engaged in the

536
00:24:29,640 --> 00:24:32,760
Speaker 1: fight to pay off your debt. Whether it's a latte

537
00:24:32,880 --> 00:24:35,200
Speaker 1: on a Saturday morning at your favorite coffee shop or

538
00:24:35,240 --> 00:24:37,399
Speaker 1: a new pair of Chuck Taylor tennis shoes. You know

539
00:24:37,880 --> 00:24:40,000
Speaker 1: that that would probably be mine. But yeah, I think

540
00:24:40,040 --> 00:24:43,800
Speaker 1: something like that can actually provide that boost, like, Okay, cool,

541
00:24:43,800 --> 00:24:45,960
Speaker 1: I can't wait till my next little reward when debt

542
00:24:46,040 --> 00:24:48,520
Speaker 1: number two gets paid off. And I think it's really helpful,

543
00:24:48,560 --> 00:24:51,560
Speaker 1: Like we need little we need moments of feedback in

544
00:24:51,600 --> 00:24:53,399
Speaker 1: these areas of our lives, and if if you're not

545
00:24:53,520 --> 00:24:56,920
Speaker 1: able to share it with somebody in particular, providing little rewards,

546
00:24:56,960 --> 00:25:00,600
Speaker 1: little benefits, little boosts for yourself or reminders. Yeah, it's

547
00:25:00,640 --> 00:25:03,200
Speaker 1: so helpful, right, And you mentioned sharing it with someone

548
00:25:03,200 --> 00:25:04,959
Speaker 1: else as well. I mean, and I think that's another

549
00:25:05,000 --> 00:25:08,120
Speaker 1: great way of moving forward with pain down your debt

550
00:25:08,240 --> 00:25:10,240
Speaker 1: is have somebody else who might be in a similar

551
00:25:10,400 --> 00:25:13,000
Speaker 1: life stage as you or have similar goals that you're

552
00:25:13,000 --> 00:25:15,280
Speaker 1: trying to achieve because you can. Again, you can remind

553
00:25:15,280 --> 00:25:18,240
Speaker 1: each other not through just these little treats and rewards,

554
00:25:18,320 --> 00:25:21,520
Speaker 1: but also through encouragement and spurring each other on. Joel,

555
00:25:21,560 --> 00:25:23,679
Speaker 1: I mean going back to your your running analogy. Even

556
00:25:23,720 --> 00:25:25,640
Speaker 1: though you don't run no way, you're never gonna see

557
00:25:25,680 --> 00:25:27,600
Speaker 1: me running. Man, I stay, I stay on two wheels.

558
00:25:28,359 --> 00:25:29,960
Speaker 1: But when you're running with a buddy, that is going

559
00:25:30,000 --> 00:25:32,520
Speaker 1: to be a much more effective way to train and

560
00:25:32,520 --> 00:25:35,520
Speaker 1: to stick to a training schedule or hitting a specific time.

561
00:25:35,520 --> 00:25:37,160
Speaker 1: If you're trying to set like a new personal record

562
00:25:37,200 --> 00:25:39,520
Speaker 1: for yourself, that's another way that will allow you to

563
00:25:40,080 --> 00:25:42,480
Speaker 1: stick with it and to stay motivated. And as you're

564
00:25:42,520 --> 00:25:45,880
Speaker 1: on this path to paying down your debt as quickly

565
00:25:45,920 --> 00:25:48,800
Speaker 1: as possible, you know, like we said, these are all

566
00:25:48,920 --> 00:25:52,640
Speaker 1: great approaches, but the biggest thing, the biggest thing that

567
00:25:52,680 --> 00:25:55,600
Speaker 1: you have to be aware of is that you can't

568
00:25:55,680 --> 00:25:58,880
Speaker 1: start creating new debt again in the process or at

569
00:25:58,880 --> 00:26:01,040
Speaker 1: the end of this process. You can't pay off a

570
00:26:01,040 --> 00:26:03,520
Speaker 1: credit card and then start working on your next debt

571
00:26:03,760 --> 00:26:06,359
Speaker 1: and then, you know what, start charging that first credit

572
00:26:06,359 --> 00:26:08,760
Speaker 1: card that you paid off, start charging it up again.

573
00:26:09,200 --> 00:26:12,040
Speaker 1: That defeats the purpose and puts you in a very

574
00:26:12,080 --> 00:26:14,359
Speaker 1: similar bind. You have to take a hard look at

575
00:26:14,359 --> 00:26:16,480
Speaker 1: the root causes of what led you to getting into

576
00:26:16,560 --> 00:26:18,399
Speaker 1: this debt in the first place. And Joel, for a

577
00:26:18,440 --> 00:26:20,560
Speaker 1: lot of people like that, root cause might be having

578
00:26:20,600 --> 00:26:22,480
Speaker 1: a credit card to begin with. Right, Like you and I,

579
00:26:22,520 --> 00:26:25,159
Speaker 1: we talk a good bit about credit card bonuses. I

580
00:26:25,200 --> 00:26:27,280
Speaker 1: love those sign of bonuses and and getting the big

581
00:26:27,320 --> 00:26:29,879
Speaker 1: rewards that way. But for a lot of folks that

582
00:26:29,960 --> 00:26:33,160
Speaker 1: might be temptation to overspend and consume on a scale

583
00:26:33,240 --> 00:26:35,600
Speaker 1: that doesn't fit with their budget, and so in that

584
00:26:35,680 --> 00:26:37,480
Speaker 1: case it might be wise for them to not have

585
00:26:37,520 --> 00:26:40,120
Speaker 1: a credit card. There are some different benefits like that

586
00:26:40,119 --> 00:26:42,400
Speaker 1: that you can use to your advantage that can work

587
00:26:42,440 --> 00:26:45,159
Speaker 1: for you, but just don't allow the same tools to

588
00:26:45,600 --> 00:26:49,160
Speaker 1: work against you and cause you more harm than good. Yeah,

589
00:26:49,160 --> 00:26:52,200
Speaker 1: if you know the credit cards in your possession don't

590
00:26:52,280 --> 00:26:54,120
Speaker 1: end well if if you know that it ends with

591
00:26:54,400 --> 00:26:57,320
Speaker 1: a shopping spree online or you go to your local

592
00:26:57,320 --> 00:26:59,359
Speaker 1: mall or whatever. I don't know the mall still exists.

593
00:26:59,640 --> 00:27:01,880
Speaker 1: I feel millennials are killing malls, right, that's what I hear.

594
00:27:02,520 --> 00:27:05,760
Speaker 1: But if you Amazon shopping spree, yeah, yeah, However you

595
00:27:05,840 --> 00:27:08,639
Speaker 1: use your credit card. However, you use it poorly, you

596
00:27:08,640 --> 00:27:10,400
Speaker 1: need to be aware of that. And if you feel

597
00:27:10,400 --> 00:27:13,720
Speaker 1: like you can't handle credit card usage, well, well then

598
00:27:13,840 --> 00:27:15,520
Speaker 1: you need to cut them out of your life because

599
00:27:15,520 --> 00:27:17,959
Speaker 1: it's just not worth the potential harm that could befall

600
00:27:18,040 --> 00:27:22,040
Speaker 1: you from using your credit cards frequently and often, landing

601
00:27:22,040 --> 00:27:25,760
Speaker 1: you in more and more debt. So true, Let's now

602
00:27:25,880 --> 00:27:28,120
Speaker 1: go ahead get back to our beer. Yeah, man, So

603
00:27:28,240 --> 00:27:31,400
Speaker 1: this was maple vanilla Copra Kai that we had from

604
00:27:31,520 --> 00:27:34,119
Speaker 1: Southern Grist Brewing Company. Thanks to Jamie over there for

605
00:27:34,160 --> 00:27:36,560
Speaker 1: sending this one over to us, dude, this was one

606
00:27:36,600 --> 00:27:38,119
Speaker 1: of the best beers we found on the show in

607
00:27:38,200 --> 00:27:42,480
Speaker 1: a while. This beer was harmonious. I would say it

608
00:27:42,600 --> 00:27:46,720
Speaker 1: had the elements of maple and vanilla perfectly blended into

609
00:27:46,800 --> 00:27:49,080
Speaker 1: this milk stout, and in my opinion, it was the

610
00:27:49,119 --> 00:27:53,400
Speaker 1: absolutely perfect specimen of what a milk stout should taste like.

611
00:27:53,920 --> 00:27:56,800
Speaker 1: This was fantastic. Yeah, and this is only a seven

612
00:27:56,800 --> 00:27:59,000
Speaker 1: percent beer. A lot of stouts that have a lot

613
00:27:59,040 --> 00:28:01,800
Speaker 1: of flavor like this ten to be boozier and bigger,

614
00:28:02,040 --> 00:28:04,560
Speaker 1: which makes them a little more difficult to drink, and

615
00:28:04,800 --> 00:28:06,840
Speaker 1: this one was not that way. It's it's really easy

616
00:28:06,880 --> 00:28:09,560
Speaker 1: to drink a lot of amazing flavors. Since I'm holding

617
00:28:09,560 --> 00:28:11,200
Speaker 1: the can right now, I can, I'm kind of sniff

618
00:28:11,200 --> 00:28:14,080
Speaker 1: in it and it almost has this cake batter quality

619
00:28:14,119 --> 00:28:18,040
Speaker 1: to it, smells really sweet, really delicious. You almost had

620
00:28:18,080 --> 00:28:21,120
Speaker 1: like a like one of those maple doughnut kind of

621
00:28:21,280 --> 00:28:24,800
Speaker 1: vibe going on. Like like, there's this concept of the

622
00:28:24,840 --> 00:28:28,120
Speaker 1: pastry stout where people are putting donut kind of additions

623
00:28:28,119 --> 00:28:30,680
Speaker 1: into their souths brownie additions, all these kind of interesting,

624
00:28:30,720 --> 00:28:33,600
Speaker 1: funky dessert like factors into their stouts, and this one

625
00:28:33,680 --> 00:28:36,600
Speaker 1: kind of had, like, man, some really cool elements, some

626
00:28:36,720 --> 00:28:40,680
Speaker 1: really tasty notes, but it wasn't overwhelming in your face either.

627
00:28:40,880 --> 00:28:43,440
Speaker 1: It was like these awesome flavors in perfect balance. Yeah,

628
00:28:43,560 --> 00:28:45,880
Speaker 1: like you said, harmonious with it being a milk stout,

629
00:28:45,920 --> 00:28:50,040
Speaker 1: It's just got that smooth, creamy, milk shake like nature

630
00:28:50,080 --> 00:28:52,400
Speaker 1: to it, you know what I'm saying. Fantastic Beer. We're

631
00:28:52,440 --> 00:28:54,280
Speaker 1: kind of gushing all over this thing, so we should

632
00:28:54,280 --> 00:28:56,920
Speaker 1: probably go ahead and cut it short. But Fantastic Brewery,

633
00:28:57,320 --> 00:28:59,400
Speaker 1: Southern Grist. I looked them up as well because we

634
00:28:59,520 --> 00:29:01,240
Speaker 1: since we had on the last episode, I wanted to

635
00:29:01,240 --> 00:29:03,480
Speaker 1: see what other beers they had man, and they have

636
00:29:03,600 --> 00:29:06,440
Speaker 1: such an amazing variety. A lot of places will just

637
00:29:06,600 --> 00:29:08,680
Speaker 1: rock the I PA is really hard, or they'll have

638
00:29:08,800 --> 00:29:11,040
Speaker 1: tons of sours. So the Grist kind of had it all.

639
00:29:11,120 --> 00:29:13,960
Speaker 1: They had i pas, they had sours, they had some

640
00:29:13,960 --> 00:29:15,640
Speaker 1: some German styles that you don't see a lot of

641
00:29:15,760 --> 00:29:17,640
Speaker 1: hip new breweries made. But then they've got some awesome

642
00:29:17,640 --> 00:29:20,000
Speaker 1: big stouts like this as well. And so yeah, props

643
00:29:20,040 --> 00:29:22,240
Speaker 1: to Southern Grist. That just means we're gonna have to

644
00:29:22,280 --> 00:29:24,600
Speaker 1: try more Southern Grist beers. We just need to go

645
00:29:24,680 --> 00:29:26,760
Speaker 1: up there. Have you been up to Nashville anytime for

646
00:29:26,760 --> 00:29:28,560
Speaker 1: like a day trip or something. It's been a while. Man,

647
00:29:28,680 --> 00:29:30,320
Speaker 1: it's a great town, but it's been a minute that's

648
00:29:30,320 --> 00:29:32,200
Speaker 1: I've been there. But yeah, I feel like there's some

649
00:29:32,240 --> 00:29:34,400
Speaker 1: really good breweries up there now, and it's just like

650
00:29:34,520 --> 00:29:36,880
Speaker 1: a really fun town to be in. Good live music.

651
00:29:37,360 --> 00:29:40,480
Speaker 1: I just remember hanging out on Broadway in Nashville going

652
00:29:40,480 --> 00:29:42,280
Speaker 1: to see some kind of old school country music with

653
00:29:42,320 --> 00:29:44,960
Speaker 1: like pedal steels and upright bases and stuff. I mean,

654
00:29:45,000 --> 00:29:47,360
Speaker 1: that's totally my jam. Go buy some boots or something

655
00:29:47,760 --> 00:29:50,959
Speaker 1: something Southern country. Now. I still wear my Chucks, but

656
00:29:51,400 --> 00:29:53,880
Speaker 1: as Nashville. Is that like day trip territory for Atlanta. Yeah,

657
00:29:53,920 --> 00:29:55,720
Speaker 1: it's about four hours from where we are. It's not

658
00:29:55,760 --> 00:29:57,320
Speaker 1: bad at all. I might have to do it, dude,

659
00:29:57,400 --> 00:29:59,960
Speaker 1: Let's do it, all right, I'm in alright. Quick snow

660
00:30:00,040 --> 00:30:04,520
Speaker 1: ball avalanche recap debt snowball. It is all about the psychology,

661
00:30:04,520 --> 00:30:07,200
Speaker 1: it's not about the math. You're gonna prioritize pain down

662
00:30:07,200 --> 00:30:09,280
Speaker 1: the debts with the smallest balance if you're in it

663
00:30:09,320 --> 00:30:12,320
Speaker 1: for the quick wins and gaining that momentum, versus the

664
00:30:12,360 --> 00:30:15,520
Speaker 1: debt avalanche, where you're gonna be focused on the math,

665
00:30:15,840 --> 00:30:19,680
Speaker 1: not the psychology. And in this case, you are prioritizing

666
00:30:19,680 --> 00:30:21,960
Speaker 1: pain on the debts that have the highest interest rate

667
00:30:22,040 --> 00:30:25,640
Speaker 1: because you're a nerd and you can't get past those numbers. Yeah, Matt,

668
00:30:25,720 --> 00:30:29,440
Speaker 1: that debt avalanche strategy particularly good for robots and extreme

669
00:30:29,440 --> 00:30:33,040
Speaker 1: planners and those that have a lot of discipline, right. Yeah,

670
00:30:33,040 --> 00:30:36,080
Speaker 1: you gotta know yourself exactly. Yeah. And so the last

671
00:30:36,080 --> 00:30:38,800
Speaker 1: thing that we need to note real quick is the

672
00:30:38,840 --> 00:30:42,080
Speaker 1: most important part of both of these strategies. It's focusing

673
00:30:42,080 --> 00:30:44,400
Speaker 1: on paying down one debt at a time to the

674
00:30:44,440 --> 00:30:47,040
Speaker 1: exclusion of all the others. You're gonna pay the minimums

675
00:30:47,120 --> 00:30:49,480
Speaker 1: on every single debt, but there's only one debt that

676
00:30:49,520 --> 00:30:52,760
Speaker 1: you're going to prioritize highly. And so either way you go,

677
00:30:53,160 --> 00:30:55,040
Speaker 1: make sure you're taking that approach. That's going to be

678
00:30:55,080 --> 00:30:57,560
Speaker 1: the most motivating factor. That's going to kind of give

679
00:30:57,600 --> 00:30:59,560
Speaker 1: you that tunnel vision and it's gonna help keep you

680
00:30:59,600 --> 00:31:03,640
Speaker 1: motivated because you're targeted in specifically on that one debt

681
00:31:03,720 --> 00:31:07,520
Speaker 1: and you're going after obliterating it at all costs. And Joel,

682
00:31:07,560 --> 00:31:10,280
Speaker 1: you cannot underestimate the power of focus when it comes

683
00:31:10,320 --> 00:31:13,880
Speaker 1: to your debt. Do not try to multitask your debt payments.

684
00:31:14,240 --> 00:31:16,080
Speaker 1: But that is going to be it for this episode.

685
00:31:16,240 --> 00:31:18,240
Speaker 1: You can find our show notes up on our website

686
00:31:18,280 --> 00:31:20,840
Speaker 1: at how some money dot com. Yeah, and if you're

687
00:31:20,840 --> 00:31:23,680
Speaker 1: into leaving reviews for awesome podcasts, totally feel free to

688
00:31:23,720 --> 00:31:26,560
Speaker 1: do that for us. We would greatly appreciate it. And

689
00:31:26,560 --> 00:31:28,480
Speaker 1: if you think Matt and I have room for improvement,

690
00:31:28,600 --> 00:31:30,640
Speaker 1: please drop us a line. You can go to how

691
00:31:30,680 --> 00:31:33,040
Speaker 1: to money dot com slash do Better. We would love

692
00:31:33,080 --> 00:31:35,280
Speaker 1: to hear from you. All right, buddy, until next time,

693
00:31:35,720 --> 00:31:53,040
Speaker 1: Best friends Out, Best Friends Out, Best Friends Out,