1 00:00:00,320 --> 00:00:02,960 Speaker 1: Brought to you by the reinvented two thousand twelve Camray. 2 00:00:03,240 --> 00:00:09,000 Speaker 1: It's ready. Are you get in touch with technology? With 3 00:00:09,080 --> 00:00:18,120 Speaker 1: tech Stuff from how stuff works dot com. Hello again, everyone, 4 00:00:18,160 --> 00:00:20,759 Speaker 1: Welcome to tech stuff. My name is Chris Poulette, and 5 00:00:20,760 --> 00:00:23,160 Speaker 1: I am an editor at how stuff works dot com, 6 00:00:23,160 --> 00:00:26,520 Speaker 1: sitting across from me as usual as senior writer Jonathan Strickland. 7 00:00:26,640 --> 00:00:29,160 Speaker 1: Then let's head on down into that cellar and carve 8 00:00:29,240 --> 00:00:34,960 Speaker 1: ourselves a witch. Okay, then today we're going to talk 9 00:00:35,000 --> 00:00:39,600 Speaker 1: about something that's received a lot of press over the 10 00:00:39,720 --> 00:00:42,640 Speaker 1: years and a lot of ridicule um, some of which 11 00:00:42,760 --> 00:00:46,440 Speaker 1: I mean I couldn't argue. I think it was justified. Uh, 12 00:00:47,040 --> 00:00:52,240 Speaker 1: we're going to talk about the saga of Duke Newcomb Forever. Ah. Yes, 13 00:00:52,840 --> 00:00:55,840 Speaker 1: for those of you who are unfamiliar, Duke Newcomb is 14 00:00:55,920 --> 00:01:01,760 Speaker 1: an h An action video game superstar. Yeah. Uh and uh, 15 00:01:01,800 --> 00:01:03,560 Speaker 1: you know, I would guess you would call it a 16 00:01:03,600 --> 00:01:07,800 Speaker 1: first person shooter. Well, yeah, let's let's let's go back 17 00:01:07,840 --> 00:01:09,280 Speaker 1: and set the scene a little bit before we get 18 00:01:09,319 --> 00:01:11,920 Speaker 1: into the first person shooter apart, because lucle the history 19 00:01:11,959 --> 00:01:16,160 Speaker 1: actually stretches back before the first person shooter genre. Really. Yes, 20 00:01:17,440 --> 00:01:21,200 Speaker 1: all right, First of all, before we even go into 21 00:01:21,240 --> 00:01:26,280 Speaker 1: this at all, Wired has reported that the typical development 22 00:01:26,319 --> 00:01:31,040 Speaker 1: cycle for a video game is two to four years. Yes, 23 00:01:31,120 --> 00:01:33,120 Speaker 1: so it can take between two and four years to 24 00:01:33,520 --> 00:01:36,720 Speaker 1: develop a typical video game. And that's uh. That was 25 00:01:36,760 --> 00:01:39,240 Speaker 1: a recent article, so I think that would go for 26 00:01:39,640 --> 00:01:43,760 Speaker 1: today's video games. So keep that in mind. Two to 27 00:01:43,800 --> 00:01:47,760 Speaker 1: four years, all right. This story starts really with a 28 00:01:47,840 --> 00:01:53,840 Speaker 1: pair of friends, Scott Miller and George Brossard. Scott Miller 29 00:01:54,280 --> 00:01:57,280 Speaker 1: was a are still is, and Scott Miller started programming 30 00:01:57,280 --> 00:02:00,600 Speaker 1: back in building video games all the way back in. 31 00:02:02,280 --> 00:02:04,600 Speaker 1: One of the first ones he wrote is called Beyond 32 00:02:04,640 --> 00:02:07,360 Speaker 1: the Titanic, which is now freeware. You can actually go 33 00:02:07,440 --> 00:02:09,720 Speaker 1: and download it. It's a text based game, sort of 34 00:02:09,720 --> 00:02:13,359 Speaker 1: like the old Zorki games. I love those games me too, 35 00:02:13,480 --> 00:02:16,000 Speaker 1: and I really enjoyed this as well. So Beyond the Titanic, 36 00:02:16,040 --> 00:02:17,360 Speaker 1: if you do a search for it, you can actually 37 00:02:17,400 --> 00:02:21,880 Speaker 1: play one of Scott Miller's first games. See. Miller came 38 00:02:21,960 --> 00:02:25,880 Speaker 1: up with a brilliant idea. He thought, why not find 39 00:02:25,960 --> 00:02:28,960 Speaker 1: a way to get people interested in a computer game 40 00:02:29,120 --> 00:02:32,560 Speaker 1: by releasing part of the game for free and then 41 00:02:32,600 --> 00:02:35,480 Speaker 1: in order to unlock the whole game, you have to pay, 42 00:02:35,560 --> 00:02:39,680 Speaker 1: which is the shareware based model. Okay. So he came 43 00:02:39,760 --> 00:02:42,640 Speaker 1: up with this idea and he founded a company called 44 00:02:42,760 --> 00:02:48,880 Speaker 1: APAG Software Limited. So this was back in. Apage was 45 00:02:48,960 --> 00:02:51,840 Speaker 1: kind of a part time business for for Scott and 46 00:02:51,880 --> 00:02:55,560 Speaker 1: then in he quit his job and concentrated on Appa 47 00:02:55,639 --> 00:02:59,720 Speaker 1: G full time. And uh and Bissard George Bissard was 48 00:02:59,760 --> 00:03:02,560 Speaker 1: a a co founder. He was also interested in this 49 00:03:02,680 --> 00:03:09,080 Speaker 1: and um he joined on with Scott Miller. So July one, nineteen, 50 00:03:10,560 --> 00:03:14,040 Speaker 1: the first Duke Newcomb game came out. That's Duke Newcomb 51 00:03:14,080 --> 00:03:17,360 Speaker 1: one point oh right. Back then it was a side 52 00:03:17,400 --> 00:03:20,919 Speaker 1: scroller game. Yes, so so not a first person shooters, 53 00:03:20,919 --> 00:03:24,239 Speaker 1: side schooler side scrollers like the old Super Mario Brothers games, 54 00:03:24,520 --> 00:03:27,160 Speaker 1: you know, not like a platformer. A platform er exactly, 55 00:03:27,680 --> 00:03:32,040 Speaker 1: it was. It was innovative because your character could go left, right, up, 56 00:03:32,160 --> 00:03:35,320 Speaker 1: or down. The screen would scroll in all four directions, 57 00:03:35,560 --> 00:03:39,000 Speaker 1: so you weren't forced in a single direction like you know, 58 00:03:39,160 --> 00:03:40,960 Speaker 1: like the old Super Mario game. You start going to 59 00:03:41,000 --> 00:03:43,480 Speaker 1: the right, you could never backtrack to the left. Yeah, 60 00:03:43,480 --> 00:03:45,080 Speaker 1: there are a number of games I've played like that. 61 00:03:45,120 --> 00:03:47,920 Speaker 1: It's very frustrating if you feel like you could catch 62 00:03:47,960 --> 00:03:51,760 Speaker 1: that extra power up and you know it too late, right, Yeah, 63 00:03:51,800 --> 00:03:53,280 Speaker 1: you ran a little too far and now you can't 64 00:03:53,280 --> 00:03:56,960 Speaker 1: get that one up on the first level Super Mario Brothers. 65 00:03:56,960 --> 00:04:00,680 Speaker 1: Not that I'm better anyway. So uh So that was 66 00:04:00,720 --> 00:04:03,600 Speaker 1: the first game in the Duke Newcomb series and introduced 67 00:04:03,600 --> 00:04:07,040 Speaker 1: this kind of Schwarzenegger type hero, although back then a 68 00:04:07,280 --> 00:04:09,560 Speaker 1: very primitive. Again, it's just a side scroller in a 69 00:04:09,560 --> 00:04:12,560 Speaker 1: white justice, very good side scroller, but it was not 70 00:04:12,600 --> 00:04:14,600 Speaker 1: a first person shooter. I was gonna say. It was 71 00:04:14,680 --> 00:04:16,880 Speaker 1: just sort of a two bit character, except he was 72 00:04:16,920 --> 00:04:20,000 Speaker 1: more than two bits, like eight. He was definitely a 73 00:04:20,040 --> 00:04:24,560 Speaker 1: two dimensional definitely. But the game had some cheat codes 74 00:04:24,600 --> 00:04:26,760 Speaker 1: in it and other stuff they got built into later 75 00:04:26,839 --> 00:04:30,599 Speaker 1: Duke nukemb games. So that was July first nine, and 76 00:04:30,880 --> 00:04:34,599 Speaker 1: by November one, Duke Newcomb two point I was released. Um, 77 00:04:34,640 --> 00:04:37,840 Speaker 1: and then we're going to skip ahead too. May five, 78 00:04:39,000 --> 00:04:43,000 Speaker 1: a new game developed by i D Software hits. Do 79 00:04:43,040 --> 00:04:47,240 Speaker 1: you know what this one was? It involved shooting Nazis. 80 00:04:48,560 --> 00:04:55,400 Speaker 1: It's that wolf Stein. Yes, Wolfenstein. Um, Wolfenstein three D 81 00:04:55,560 --> 00:04:59,040 Speaker 1: comes out. Now Appog wasn't just a game developer, they 82 00:04:59,040 --> 00:05:01,839 Speaker 1: were also a game public sure. So this game was 83 00:05:01,920 --> 00:05:06,440 Speaker 1: developed by i D software. I always said that was it. Yeah, 84 00:05:06,720 --> 00:05:09,440 Speaker 1: it's probably it. I've always I you know what, I 85 00:05:09,440 --> 00:05:11,440 Speaker 1: have always called it it. And I got to this 86 00:05:11,480 --> 00:05:13,159 Speaker 1: and I was like, I'm just gonna say i D 87 00:05:13,160 --> 00:05:16,680 Speaker 1: just in case it software, We'll go with it. So 88 00:05:16,839 --> 00:05:20,760 Speaker 1: it created Wolfenstein three D. APPAG published it, and this 89 00:05:20,960 --> 00:05:24,760 Speaker 1: started off the whole first person shooter craze. Really, I mean, 90 00:05:24,800 --> 00:05:27,600 Speaker 1: it was the first one to really get attention on 91 00:05:27,760 --> 00:05:33,720 Speaker 1: the BC. So December three Duke Newcomb two comes out 92 00:05:33,760 --> 00:05:36,600 Speaker 1: and it's still a side scrolling game, but the property 93 00:05:36,640 --> 00:05:41,479 Speaker 1: is still going strong, and in Appog creates a new 94 00:05:41,560 --> 00:05:45,560 Speaker 1: brand called three D Realms. Now, the idea back then 95 00:05:46,040 --> 00:05:49,160 Speaker 1: was that appog was publishing all these different styles of games, 96 00:05:49,200 --> 00:05:51,919 Speaker 1: and they thought if they could create a brand specific 97 00:05:51,960 --> 00:05:54,840 Speaker 1: to each style of game, it would make it easier 98 00:05:54,839 --> 00:05:57,599 Speaker 1: to identify. So three D Realms would have gone with 99 00:05:57,640 --> 00:06:02,200 Speaker 1: all the three D environment games, mostly first person shooters. Uh. 100 00:06:02,200 --> 00:06:04,680 Speaker 1: It turned out that eventually three D Realms became the 101 00:06:04,839 --> 00:06:08,080 Speaker 1: unofficial name for the company, that the legal name was 102 00:06:08,120 --> 00:06:11,479 Speaker 1: still APAG Software Limited, where everyone knew of them as 103 00:06:11,560 --> 00:06:14,560 Speaker 1: three D Realms, mostly because the first person shooter I 104 00:06:14,640 --> 00:06:17,240 Speaker 1: think pretty much took off and the other honors kind 105 00:06:17,240 --> 00:06:25,440 Speaker 1: of died down. So January twenty nine, nineteen n Duke 106 00:06:25,680 --> 00:06:31,160 Speaker 1: Newcomb three D hits It Goes Gold. This was the 107 00:06:31,160 --> 00:06:35,440 Speaker 1: game that that really took the world by storm. Uh. 108 00:06:35,760 --> 00:06:41,120 Speaker 1: It was incredibly successful, so successful that it flooded three 109 00:06:41,200 --> 00:06:46,160 Speaker 1: D realms coffers with filthy, filthy lucre. In other words, 110 00:06:46,200 --> 00:06:48,559 Speaker 1: it made him rich. Yeah, they made that some money 111 00:06:48,560 --> 00:06:51,200 Speaker 1: off Duke Newcomb three D. A lot of people just 112 00:06:51,200 --> 00:06:52,600 Speaker 1: thought the game was a lot of fun as a 113 00:06:52,640 --> 00:06:56,680 Speaker 1: first person shooter, had a lot of snarky comments, and 114 00:06:56,720 --> 00:06:59,880 Speaker 1: it mostly culled from the Army of Darkness and evil 115 00:07:00,160 --> 00:07:03,960 Speaker 1: ed movies. Uh, you could easily imagine Bruce Campbell. Actually 116 00:07:04,240 --> 00:07:06,400 Speaker 1: is easy to imagine Bruce Cambell saying these things because 117 00:07:06,400 --> 00:07:09,279 Speaker 1: he has said them. But your character would say things 118 00:07:09,279 --> 00:07:12,160 Speaker 1: like come get some and groovy and all that kind 119 00:07:12,160 --> 00:07:15,840 Speaker 1: of stuff, which pretty much came straight from those movies. Um. Yeah, 120 00:07:15,840 --> 00:07:17,240 Speaker 1: I'll have to take your word for it because I'm 121 00:07:17,280 --> 00:07:20,200 Speaker 1: not much into the first person shooter top games. I 122 00:07:20,360 --> 00:07:24,360 Speaker 1: played played it so many hours of Nukem three D. Now. 123 00:07:24,440 --> 00:07:27,240 Speaker 1: It was based off a The The engine that used 124 00:07:27,280 --> 00:07:30,560 Speaker 1: was called build it was It was developed in House 125 00:07:30,840 --> 00:07:33,480 Speaker 1: by three D Realms. Yeah, and there were very very 126 00:07:33,480 --> 00:07:37,360 Speaker 1: few people I I understand who built the original game, 127 00:07:37,960 --> 00:07:40,200 Speaker 1: very very small team of people who created it. Yeah. 128 00:07:40,240 --> 00:07:43,640 Speaker 1: This was back before you had to have enormous teams 129 00:07:43,680 --> 00:07:46,600 Speaker 1: to build a video game. I mean, today you'll hear 130 00:07:47,720 --> 00:07:50,120 Speaker 1: weird reports of I think I once heard that Grand 131 00:07:50,160 --> 00:07:54,640 Speaker 1: Theft Auto four cost an insane amount of money to develop, 132 00:07:55,000 --> 00:07:57,600 Speaker 1: Like we're talking like a hundred million dollars to develop. 133 00:07:58,080 --> 00:08:01,640 Speaker 1: I don't believe that necessarily, but it's kind of indicative 134 00:08:01,640 --> 00:08:05,640 Speaker 1: of how video game development has has spiraled into this 135 00:08:05,840 --> 00:08:08,200 Speaker 1: enormous thing when back in the day it was a 136 00:08:08,280 --> 00:08:14,080 Speaker 1: much smaller uh task. So uh yeah. So the game 137 00:08:14,120 --> 00:08:16,400 Speaker 1: comes out in ninety six, it's a huge success. Three 138 00:08:16,440 --> 00:08:20,080 Speaker 1: D Realms ends up getting really really rich off of it, 139 00:08:20,320 --> 00:08:23,840 Speaker 1: um Brossard and Miller in particular, and they weren't doing 140 00:08:23,920 --> 00:08:28,840 Speaker 1: poorly too before that. It's just that Duke NUKEMB really Yeah. 141 00:08:29,160 --> 00:08:31,920 Speaker 1: And then um some patches and mods come out over 142 00:08:31,960 --> 00:08:35,880 Speaker 1: the next few years for Duke NUKEMB three D which 143 00:08:36,000 --> 00:08:38,800 Speaker 1: allow you to alter the game. I've actually played a few. 144 00:08:39,040 --> 00:08:41,400 Speaker 1: I remember getting a mod for Duke NUKEMB three D 145 00:08:41,520 --> 00:08:44,400 Speaker 1: that created a whole new levels that were not designed 146 00:08:44,400 --> 00:08:46,960 Speaker 1: by three D Realms. Other people have designed these and 147 00:08:46,960 --> 00:08:48,920 Speaker 1: then uploaded them, and then you could download them and 148 00:08:49,280 --> 00:08:51,120 Speaker 1: as long as you had the basic game, you could 149 00:08:51,120 --> 00:08:55,000 Speaker 1: play the moded levels. Um. You also could play on 150 00:08:55,080 --> 00:08:58,240 Speaker 1: a local area network against other players, which to me 151 00:08:58,440 --> 00:09:01,440 Speaker 1: was phenomenal. I remember the first two games I ever 152 00:09:01,480 --> 00:09:05,079 Speaker 1: did that with were Duke Nukemb three D and Descent, 153 00:09:06,080 --> 00:09:09,640 Speaker 1: which was the three dimensional spaceship game where you you 154 00:09:09,640 --> 00:09:13,439 Speaker 1: could move in three different planes right, you could go up, down, left, right, 155 00:09:13,520 --> 00:09:15,599 Speaker 1: actually you know you do the X, y and z 156 00:09:15,760 --> 00:09:25,200 Speaker 1: axes anyway, So really popular game. Three D Realms diad 157 00:09:25,240 --> 00:09:29,960 Speaker 1: what would come back to hunt them multiple times over 158 00:09:29,960 --> 00:09:33,840 Speaker 1: the next few years. They announced officially the development of 159 00:09:33,880 --> 00:09:38,679 Speaker 1: a game called Duke Newcombe Forever. It was at this 160 00:09:38,840 --> 00:09:42,360 Speaker 1: point where Brossard had decided that because the first Duke 161 00:09:42,480 --> 00:09:46,920 Speaker 1: Newcomb game three D game was such a huge success, uh, 162 00:09:46,920 --> 00:09:50,120 Speaker 1: he was not going to cut any corners in developing 163 00:09:50,320 --> 00:09:53,280 Speaker 1: Duke Nukem Forever. And that was a decision that would 164 00:09:53,480 --> 00:09:58,480 Speaker 1: hunt many people for many years. Yep um. Both Jonathan 165 00:09:58,480 --> 00:10:00,840 Speaker 1: and I had consulted an article that ran and wired 166 00:10:01,400 --> 00:10:05,199 Speaker 1: um in December two thousand nine by Clive Thompson. It's 167 00:10:05,200 --> 00:10:07,600 Speaker 1: a really, really awesome article. If you're interested in this topic, 168 00:10:07,640 --> 00:10:10,400 Speaker 1: you should definitely go check it out. But from from 169 00:10:10,400 --> 00:10:14,480 Speaker 1: everything I read, especially in that article, UM, it appears 170 00:10:14,520 --> 00:10:19,200 Speaker 1: that he is the consummate perfectionist. He wants everything to 171 00:10:19,240 --> 00:10:23,840 Speaker 1: be just so um and to a fault. And the 172 00:10:23,880 --> 00:10:26,160 Speaker 1: problem with that in the video game world is that 173 00:10:26,600 --> 00:10:31,280 Speaker 1: as you're developing a game, other companies are developing new engines, 174 00:10:32,120 --> 00:10:34,040 Speaker 1: and a new engine will come out that will make 175 00:10:34,080 --> 00:10:38,040 Speaker 1: your game look primitive in comparison. And so Broussard hated this. 176 00:10:38,160 --> 00:10:40,920 Speaker 1: Like back back when they were developing Duke Nukem three D, 177 00:10:40,960 --> 00:10:44,240 Speaker 1: they were on the cutting edge, right, And then what 178 00:10:44,400 --> 00:10:47,400 Speaker 1: happened was when they went to Duke Nukem Forever, Broussard 179 00:10:47,520 --> 00:10:50,280 Speaker 1: made a judgment call. He decided that it would be 180 00:10:50,360 --> 00:10:54,160 Speaker 1: faster and more efficient and more cost effective if they 181 00:10:54,320 --> 00:10:58,840 Speaker 1: licensed the game engine uh instead of trying to build 182 00:10:58,880 --> 00:11:01,320 Speaker 1: a brand new one. Because the build game engine was 183 00:11:01,360 --> 00:11:04,760 Speaker 1: showing signs of being out of date renew they were 184 00:11:04,760 --> 00:11:06,760 Speaker 1: gonna have to go with a new game engine. I 185 00:11:06,800 --> 00:11:08,640 Speaker 1: think we should point out to what a game engine 186 00:11:08,679 --> 00:11:12,960 Speaker 1: actually is. Um. Yeah, it's like the chassis. I would 187 00:11:13,000 --> 00:11:15,240 Speaker 1: guess if you use a car metaphor for it, it's 188 00:11:15,360 --> 00:11:18,520 Speaker 1: it's the software on which the world can be built 189 00:11:19,320 --> 00:11:21,719 Speaker 1: for a first person shooter game, especially, I would I 190 00:11:22,040 --> 00:11:24,599 Speaker 1: think if an engine as being a first person or 191 00:11:24,720 --> 00:11:28,480 Speaker 1: three D type construct, not like a side scroller platform 192 00:11:28,559 --> 00:11:31,560 Speaker 1: or something like that. Yeah, and often it'll have elements 193 00:11:31,559 --> 00:11:34,280 Speaker 1: to it. It may or may not involve a physics engine, 194 00:11:34,440 --> 00:11:37,320 Speaker 1: because sometimes you can have a physics engine that's separate 195 00:11:37,360 --> 00:11:40,280 Speaker 1: from the game engine, um that gets incorporated later. It's 196 00:11:40,280 --> 00:11:44,160 Speaker 1: built on top of that chassis if you will. I shouldn't. 197 00:11:44,200 --> 00:11:46,760 Speaker 1: I shouldn't mix engine and chassis. But yeah, I mean 198 00:11:46,840 --> 00:11:50,160 Speaker 1: it's the if you used engine strictly as the metaphor, Yeah, 199 00:11:50,240 --> 00:11:53,320 Speaker 1: it's what powers the game or and the physics engine 200 00:11:53,720 --> 00:11:56,800 Speaker 1: powers how the physics run in the game right exactly, 201 00:11:56,840 --> 00:11:59,640 Speaker 1: So you may have everything from how the game renders 202 00:11:59,679 --> 00:12:03,720 Speaker 1: to just just what happens when you do this, What 203 00:12:03,920 --> 00:12:08,000 Speaker 1: is the result, like when you shoot a monster? What 204 00:12:08,160 --> 00:12:10,000 Speaker 1: is the result. All of the stuff depends upon the 205 00:12:10,000 --> 00:12:13,920 Speaker 1: game engine. And uh, and we're most mostly talking about 206 00:12:13,920 --> 00:12:17,840 Speaker 1: the way the game engine rendered graphics, especially graphics in motion, 207 00:12:18,480 --> 00:12:23,760 Speaker 1: and so Brizard made the decision to to uh least 208 00:12:23,800 --> 00:12:29,240 Speaker 1: the Quake two engine um and of course Quake two 209 00:12:29,320 --> 00:12:32,200 Speaker 1: was that this engine was designed by by a completely 210 00:12:32,240 --> 00:12:35,439 Speaker 1: different company. UM, so three D Realms had you know, 211 00:12:35,600 --> 00:12:38,000 Speaker 1: they had to pay in order to use it, but 212 00:12:38,120 --> 00:12:42,440 Speaker 1: they decided that would be faster than developing their own. Uh. 213 00:12:42,800 --> 00:12:46,840 Speaker 1: This same year, which was again uh, that was when 214 00:12:47,040 --> 00:12:50,480 Speaker 1: Miller announced that the villain from the very first Duke 215 00:12:50,559 --> 00:12:53,959 Speaker 1: Newcomb game, Newkemb one point oh the side score one 216 00:12:54,480 --> 00:12:58,040 Speaker 1: Dr Proton would be returning in some form newkemb forever. 217 00:12:58,800 --> 00:13:01,880 Speaker 1: All right, so when they announced it, they start to 218 00:13:01,960 --> 00:13:06,240 Speaker 1: lease the Quake two engine. Uh and uh. In May, 219 00:13:06,600 --> 00:13:10,920 Speaker 1: trailer came out for this game for E three Right three, 220 00:13:10,960 --> 00:13:16,360 Speaker 1: which is the Electronic Entertainment Expert. Yeah. Yeah, it's all 221 00:13:16,400 --> 00:13:18,480 Speaker 1: about video games and I've been a couple of times. 222 00:13:18,520 --> 00:13:23,440 Speaker 1: It is amazing and intimidating. So this trailer came out 223 00:13:23,559 --> 00:13:26,080 Speaker 1: and people thought it was pretty impressive. It showed some 224 00:13:26,120 --> 00:13:30,680 Speaker 1: new gameplay elements, including Duke firing guns at aircraft as 225 00:13:30,720 --> 00:13:34,760 Speaker 1: he's on a moving truck. So it had like a 226 00:13:34,760 --> 00:13:37,000 Speaker 1: part where you're playing in a turret. You know, you 227 00:13:37,000 --> 00:13:41,080 Speaker 1: were manning a turret and firing at at planes pretty 228 00:13:41,080 --> 00:13:45,520 Speaker 1: cool stop a big jump from Duke Newcomb three d uh. 229 00:13:45,679 --> 00:13:48,120 Speaker 1: And there was also an introduction of a female character 230 00:13:48,160 --> 00:13:51,560 Speaker 1: called Bombshell, who the less said about the better. Anyway, 231 00:13:51,840 --> 00:13:54,960 Speaker 1: she did not look like she was a Saying that 232 00:13:55,000 --> 00:13:57,120 Speaker 1: she wasn't a fully developed character is probably going to 233 00:13:57,200 --> 00:14:00,360 Speaker 1: be the wrong way of putting it. Um, I'll just 234 00:14:00,440 --> 00:14:03,080 Speaker 1: leave it at that. Let's just say that a lot 235 00:14:03,120 --> 00:14:07,560 Speaker 1: of a lot of Duke nukelem is based off juvenile fantasies. Yeah. 236 00:14:07,600 --> 00:14:12,640 Speaker 1: So then, and that was one month later, three D 237 00:14:12,720 --> 00:14:16,199 Speaker 1: Realms announces that it's dropped the Quake to license. It's 238 00:14:16,240 --> 00:14:20,480 Speaker 1: switching instead to the Unreal engine, which is was from 239 00:14:20,480 --> 00:14:24,040 Speaker 1: Epic Mega Games. Yeah. I remember when Unreal came out, 240 00:14:24,240 --> 00:14:27,640 Speaker 1: and so many people who loved the first person shooter 241 00:14:27,800 --> 00:14:33,520 Speaker 1: genre really really enjoyed Unreal and Unreal tournament. Um and 242 00:14:33,760 --> 00:14:36,040 Speaker 1: I do remember that being a great big deal at 243 00:14:36,040 --> 00:14:40,240 Speaker 1: the time because it was basically it's Quake versus Epic 244 00:14:40,400 --> 00:14:44,440 Speaker 1: Mega Games Unreal and which one was the best. And Yeah, 245 00:14:44,480 --> 00:14:46,880 Speaker 1: I think I think most people did think that Unreal 246 00:14:47,040 --> 00:14:52,160 Speaker 1: was provided faster, smoother graphics than Quake. They may not 247 00:14:52,280 --> 00:14:54,320 Speaker 1: have liked the gameplay as much. But they thought that 248 00:14:54,400 --> 00:14:56,520 Speaker 1: the graphics themselves were better, which is kind of what 249 00:14:56,600 --> 00:14:59,600 Speaker 1: Broussard thought, so they decided to go with the Unreal 250 00:14:59,600 --> 00:15:02,600 Speaker 1: engine instead of the Quake two engines. So at that time, 251 00:15:02,680 --> 00:15:05,800 Speaker 1: Broussard says, hey, don't worry, this won't really delay us 252 00:15:05,840 --> 00:15:08,200 Speaker 1: that much. Expect the game next year, which would be 253 00:15:09,560 --> 00:15:12,720 Speaker 1: and how long is this after the initial announcement? Two years? 254 00:15:12,960 --> 00:15:15,120 Speaker 1: So we're now two years in because ninety seven was 255 00:15:15,120 --> 00:15:19,080 Speaker 1: the official announcement um and nine would uh, you still 256 00:15:19,120 --> 00:15:21,760 Speaker 1: have seen nothing of the game. And two years after 257 00:15:21,800 --> 00:15:25,280 Speaker 1: they first started working, actually two years after they first 258 00:15:25,320 --> 00:15:28,080 Speaker 1: announced it. Going to keep in mind it companies work 259 00:15:28,120 --> 00:15:30,920 Speaker 1: on these things before they announced them, right right, So 260 00:15:30,960 --> 00:15:33,200 Speaker 1: it's it's at least two years into a two to 261 00:15:33,280 --> 00:15:36,880 Speaker 1: four year average developments, and they've just scrapped their game 262 00:15:36,920 --> 00:15:39,400 Speaker 1: engine entirely, which means they're going to have to recode 263 00:15:39,800 --> 00:15:42,960 Speaker 1: every much everything from scratch. You might keep the level 264 00:15:43,040 --> 00:15:45,400 Speaker 1: designed the same, and you might keep the same sort 265 00:15:45,440 --> 00:15:48,080 Speaker 1: of monsters and everything. You may want to try and 266 00:15:48,160 --> 00:15:51,320 Speaker 1: maintain the same look but in a more sophisticated way, 267 00:15:52,200 --> 00:15:55,800 Speaker 1: but you still have to recode all that. So October 268 00:15:55,840 --> 00:16:00,440 Speaker 1: twenty second, n that's when Miller says that they're tweaking 269 00:16:00,480 --> 00:16:04,840 Speaker 1: the engine again to take advantage of new Unreal uh 270 00:16:04,920 --> 00:16:09,080 Speaker 1: engine improvements that were developed for Unreal Tournament. Mostly this 271 00:16:09,120 --> 00:16:12,280 Speaker 1: would be the multiplayer stuff, but just engine improvements in general. 272 00:16:13,800 --> 00:16:19,560 Speaker 1: So November they say, Okay, these engine changes are causing 273 00:16:19,560 --> 00:16:22,120 Speaker 1: more delays than we thought. We're having to patch the 274 00:16:22,120 --> 00:16:25,680 Speaker 1: engine a lot, and so it's slowing us down a bit. 275 00:16:26,240 --> 00:16:30,040 Speaker 1: Uh And at that point, a company called Info Grames 276 00:16:30,640 --> 00:16:34,160 Speaker 1: purchased a majority stake and another company called GT Interactive. 277 00:16:34,600 --> 00:16:38,400 Speaker 1: Al Right, GT Interactive was the retail distributor for Duke 278 00:16:38,520 --> 00:16:42,880 Speaker 1: newkembe Forever, so now those rights revert to Info Grames. 279 00:16:43,960 --> 00:16:47,640 Speaker 1: Info Grames announces expect Duke Nukem Forever in the year 280 00:16:47,720 --> 00:16:53,360 Speaker 1: two thousand, three years after the initial announcement. Uh So, 281 00:16:53,560 --> 00:16:58,200 Speaker 1: that year two thousand was the first time Wired gave 282 00:16:58,400 --> 00:17:02,680 Speaker 1: Duke Nukem Forever a special award. Well that would be 283 00:17:02,720 --> 00:17:06,000 Speaker 1: more of an infamous infamous award. Yeah, it gave it 284 00:17:06,080 --> 00:17:10,719 Speaker 1: the second place for the Vaporware of the Year awards. 285 00:17:11,440 --> 00:17:14,520 Speaker 1: We've we've mentioned vaporware a few times on the podcast. 286 00:17:14,560 --> 00:17:18,720 Speaker 1: I don't think we've mentioned it recently at all um. Basically, 287 00:17:18,720 --> 00:17:22,439 Speaker 1: when there is a product this I've heard the chairman 288 00:17:22,520 --> 00:17:24,760 Speaker 1: used more in tech than anything else, but it refers 289 00:17:24,760 --> 00:17:28,960 Speaker 1: to a product or software that is announced people expected 290 00:17:29,000 --> 00:17:32,439 Speaker 1: for a while, and then keep expecting it for a 291 00:17:32,480 --> 00:17:35,080 Speaker 1: little while longer, and then after that they expected some 292 00:17:35,119 --> 00:17:38,880 Speaker 1: morning it just never shows up. And sometimes the company folds. 293 00:17:39,400 --> 00:17:42,320 Speaker 1: Other times, you know, they you know, end up scrapping 294 00:17:42,320 --> 00:17:45,359 Speaker 1: the project, or it gets it gets somehow looped into 295 00:17:45,400 --> 00:17:47,960 Speaker 1: some other project and so it's called something else when 296 00:17:47,960 --> 00:17:51,120 Speaker 1: it finally comes out and people don't remember. Yeah. But 297 00:17:51,200 --> 00:17:53,359 Speaker 1: in this case, the company was still very much around 298 00:17:53,400 --> 00:17:55,760 Speaker 1: and they were still theoretically working on the project. Actually 299 00:17:55,800 --> 00:17:58,040 Speaker 1: not theoretically, they were in fact working on the project, 300 00:17:58,080 --> 00:18:01,240 Speaker 1: but it just hadn't shown up, And so Wired gives 301 00:18:01,240 --> 00:18:03,200 Speaker 1: it the second place of the Vaporware of the Year 302 00:18:03,240 --> 00:18:07,000 Speaker 1: awards in two thousand, two thousand one, it gets first place, 303 00:18:07,840 --> 00:18:10,040 Speaker 1: and it gets it again in two thousand two, and 304 00:18:10,080 --> 00:18:12,880 Speaker 1: in two thousand three they give it the Lifetime Achievement Award. 305 00:18:13,280 --> 00:18:16,520 Speaker 1: So in two thousand four no Duke Knewcom forever listed 306 00:18:16,520 --> 00:18:19,600 Speaker 1: in Wired Vaporware of the Year, but two thousand five, 307 00:18:20,000 --> 00:18:25,240 Speaker 1: two thousand six, two thousand seven, two thousand eight, it's listed. 308 00:18:25,440 --> 00:18:28,959 Speaker 1: They skipped it. In two thousand nine they acknowledged two 309 00:18:29,080 --> 00:18:30,919 Speaker 1: do comb Forever, but they did not include it in 310 00:18:30,960 --> 00:18:35,720 Speaker 1: the list. So vaporware all those years, and again that's 311 00:18:35,800 --> 00:18:37,600 Speaker 1: much longer than a two to four year life cycle. 312 00:18:37,680 --> 00:18:40,280 Speaker 1: But but jumping back a little bit, I'm sorry you're 313 00:18:40,280 --> 00:18:42,160 Speaker 1: gonna say something. Well, no, I was going to jump 314 00:18:42,200 --> 00:18:44,520 Speaker 1: back a little bit because you know, at this point 315 00:18:44,640 --> 00:18:49,200 Speaker 1: in in uh Clive Thompson's article back in two thousand three, 316 00:18:49,720 --> 00:18:53,720 Speaker 1: UM he said only eighteen people were working on developing 317 00:18:53,720 --> 00:18:58,679 Speaker 1: the software UM which again talking in today's terms at 318 00:18:58,680 --> 00:19:02,760 Speaker 1: two to four year development cycle. UM, that's relying on 319 00:19:02,800 --> 00:19:05,960 Speaker 1: a staff of fifty or even more people depending on 320 00:19:06,000 --> 00:19:10,280 Speaker 1: the title. And a game as ambitious as Duke Nukem Forever, 321 00:19:10,359 --> 00:19:12,960 Speaker 1: you would expect lots of people to be working on this, 322 00:19:13,600 --> 00:19:16,880 Speaker 1: especially because well honestly, they expected to make a lot 323 00:19:16,880 --> 00:19:19,399 Speaker 1: of money on it, so you could afford to hire 324 00:19:19,400 --> 00:19:22,160 Speaker 1: more programmers and get more people involved with the project 325 00:19:22,200 --> 00:19:24,240 Speaker 1: because you'd be able to pay off in the end 326 00:19:24,680 --> 00:19:27,640 Speaker 1: even with that added expense. Yeah, here's here's the thing, 327 00:19:27,760 --> 00:19:30,320 Speaker 1: is that because they made so much money with Duke 328 00:19:30,400 --> 00:19:33,399 Speaker 1: Nukem three D and because and other projects, they had 329 00:19:33,440 --> 00:19:36,400 Speaker 1: a lot of money they could pour into this development project. Yes, 330 00:19:36,440 --> 00:19:38,720 Speaker 1: so it's we should we should clear this up to 331 00:19:39,040 --> 00:19:42,600 Speaker 1: uh and we'll back in back in two thousand, December 332 00:19:42,600 --> 00:19:46,080 Speaker 1: two thousand, to jump back just a little further, Infogrames 333 00:19:46,280 --> 00:19:49,800 Speaker 1: sold those those retail distribution rights to someone else. Do 334 00:19:49,840 --> 00:19:52,359 Speaker 1: you remember who that was? No, I don't take two. 335 00:19:52,560 --> 00:19:54,959 Speaker 1: Oh yes I did. Take two. Interactive just didn't want 336 00:19:54,960 --> 00:19:58,560 Speaker 1: to be wrong. Same distributors who who publish out games 337 00:19:58,560 --> 00:20:01,240 Speaker 1: like Red Dead, Redemption, the Offee games, Grand Theft, Auto 338 00:20:01,400 --> 00:20:05,639 Speaker 1: Civilization five, Take two. Indeed, so take two that's going 339 00:20:05,680 --> 00:20:07,240 Speaker 1: to be important in a little bit when we get 340 00:20:07,280 --> 00:20:11,080 Speaker 1: to the explosion of three D realms in the Duke 341 00:20:11,160 --> 00:20:16,640 Speaker 1: Nukem Forever project. So now now jumping back ahead, yeah, 342 00:20:16,720 --> 00:20:20,240 Speaker 1: you you started to see problems more than more than 343 00:20:20,280 --> 00:20:23,560 Speaker 1: just delays. I mean the in two thousand two they 344 00:20:23,600 --> 00:20:25,760 Speaker 1: scrapped all the work they had done on Duke Nukem 345 00:20:25,840 --> 00:20:29,240 Speaker 1: Forever and decided to dump the unreal engine and go 346 00:20:29,359 --> 00:20:33,680 Speaker 1: with an in house engine after all, right, you know, Jonathan, 347 00:20:33,720 --> 00:20:36,520 Speaker 1: I think it's fascinating, Just as a side note here 348 00:20:36,880 --> 00:20:40,000 Speaker 1: um that there are if you're interested in evidence of 349 00:20:40,040 --> 00:20:42,520 Speaker 1: these different builds of the game. There are trailers that 350 00:20:42,560 --> 00:20:46,080 Speaker 1: they would show at E three every so often to 351 00:20:46,160 --> 00:20:48,719 Speaker 1: show what they were working on, and you can actually 352 00:20:48,760 --> 00:20:51,000 Speaker 1: see evidence of the different builds of the game running 353 00:20:51,000 --> 00:20:54,560 Speaker 1: on different engines. Yeah, there's there's aating, there's a trailer 354 00:20:54,600 --> 00:20:56,760 Speaker 1: for the one that they showed a d three. There's 355 00:20:56,760 --> 00:21:01,320 Speaker 1: a trailer for the unreal engine version, which was shown 356 00:21:01,359 --> 00:21:05,080 Speaker 1: I think in UM Yeah, two thousand one at E three. Again. Uh, 357 00:21:05,160 --> 00:21:07,600 Speaker 1: the Inhalse stuff is sort of what we're seeing now, 358 00:21:07,640 --> 00:21:11,200 Speaker 1: although it's been heavily modified of course since that time 359 00:21:12,119 --> 00:21:16,200 Speaker 1: at any rate. So so they've gone through three different 360 00:21:16,200 --> 00:21:19,119 Speaker 1: game engines they went. They also switched their physics engine 361 00:21:19,160 --> 00:21:23,120 Speaker 1: at one point, so that there's another change there. Um. 362 00:21:23,160 --> 00:21:25,640 Speaker 1: At one point, take To, a CEO for Take two, 363 00:21:25,680 --> 00:21:28,879 Speaker 1: said that they were actually using the Doom three engine, 364 00:21:28,920 --> 00:21:32,840 Speaker 1: but Broussard refuted Dad said that was not true. And 365 00:21:33,080 --> 00:21:35,920 Speaker 1: Um and Broussard and take To have had a very 366 00:21:35,960 --> 00:21:39,720 Speaker 1: contentious history. Yeah, it seemed like it from the from 367 00:21:39,720 --> 00:21:42,320 Speaker 1: the Thompson article especially. Yeah, there was a point where 368 00:21:43,200 --> 00:21:46,200 Speaker 1: the CEO for Take two said that the game would 369 00:21:46,200 --> 00:21:50,520 Speaker 1: definitely not be out before a certain time and Broussard said, Hey, 370 00:21:50,600 --> 00:21:53,480 Speaker 1: you have no right to say when and win a 371 00:21:53,520 --> 00:21:55,919 Speaker 1: game will or will not be ready, because you're just 372 00:21:56,040 --> 00:21:59,560 Speaker 1: publishing it, you're not building it, So shut up. You 373 00:21:59,560 --> 00:22:02,119 Speaker 1: don't know anythink I've actually used much worse language than that, 374 00:22:02,520 --> 00:22:06,679 Speaker 1: but at any rate, So Brissard was not shy about 375 00:22:06,720 --> 00:22:11,879 Speaker 1: this at all, and during the around two thousand and six, 376 00:22:12,960 --> 00:22:17,240 Speaker 1: three D Realms had a severe morale problem with especially 377 00:22:17,280 --> 00:22:20,560 Speaker 1: with the development team for Duke Newcomb Forever, because this 378 00:22:20,680 --> 00:22:22,919 Speaker 1: is two thousand six. They've been developing this game for 379 00:22:23,000 --> 00:22:26,280 Speaker 1: almost a decade. Now, well, think about it. If you're 380 00:22:26,320 --> 00:22:28,960 Speaker 1: one of the programmers, you would be able to say 381 00:22:29,000 --> 00:22:33,040 Speaker 1: that you had this massive, super duper cool title on 382 00:22:33,080 --> 00:22:35,360 Speaker 1: your resume and go, look what I worked on. Except 383 00:22:35,760 --> 00:22:39,560 Speaker 1: if it never shows up, then you get to say, yeah, 384 00:22:39,600 --> 00:22:41,320 Speaker 1: I just wasted the last five years in my life 385 00:22:41,359 --> 00:22:43,280 Speaker 1: on something that never got released. More than that, it 386 00:22:43,320 --> 00:22:46,560 Speaker 1: also became a monetary thing because, as it turns out, 387 00:22:46,760 --> 00:22:50,840 Speaker 1: three D Realms apparently was was paying their developers less 388 00:22:50,880 --> 00:22:56,720 Speaker 1: money than compete competing developers. But the promise of three 389 00:22:56,800 --> 00:23:00,280 Speaker 1: D Realms was that hey, look at Duke newkemb three 390 00:23:00,359 --> 00:23:03,800 Speaker 1: D that game was phenomenal. It made us rich. This 391 00:23:03,840 --> 00:23:05,840 Speaker 1: game is going to make you rich because we're going 392 00:23:05,880 --> 00:23:11,160 Speaker 1: to give you these profits sharing uh bonuses. So but 393 00:23:11,240 --> 00:23:12,800 Speaker 1: here's the problem is that you can't share in a 394 00:23:12,880 --> 00:23:16,119 Speaker 1: profit if the game never comes out. So one of 395 00:23:16,160 --> 00:23:18,960 Speaker 1: those little tricky things about profits, you can't make them 396 00:23:19,000 --> 00:23:23,960 Speaker 1: till you're selling something. Um. So, the profit sharing promise 397 00:23:24,080 --> 00:23:26,359 Speaker 1: was starting to get a bit stale, actually very stale 398 00:23:26,359 --> 00:23:30,359 Speaker 1: by two thousand six, and several employees left Three D 399 00:23:30,400 --> 00:23:34,199 Speaker 1: Realms during that period. Um Duke Nukem forever look like 400 00:23:34,200 --> 00:23:36,159 Speaker 1: it was in danger of being put on the shelf 401 00:23:36,240 --> 00:23:38,119 Speaker 1: because a lot of the people who were carrying that 402 00:23:38,160 --> 00:23:42,520 Speaker 1: knowledge had left the company. And then, uh, they decided. 403 00:23:42,800 --> 00:23:45,919 Speaker 1: Broussard's like, no, I am not going to let this die, 404 00:23:46,280 --> 00:23:49,680 Speaker 1: And he went on to the three D Realms web 405 00:23:49,680 --> 00:23:52,879 Speaker 1: page and put out job openings and they put a 406 00:23:52,880 --> 00:23:57,239 Speaker 1: big picture of Duke Nukem on the job openings. One 407 00:23:57,280 --> 00:24:00,320 Speaker 1: of the people that Broussard hired was a man by 408 00:24:00,320 --> 00:24:03,800 Speaker 1: the name of Brian Hook, and Brian Hook brought with 409 00:24:03,920 --> 00:24:07,760 Speaker 1: him a certain quality that was much needed at three 410 00:24:07,840 --> 00:24:11,920 Speaker 1: D Realms. He had the ability to look at Broussard 411 00:24:11,960 --> 00:24:15,240 Speaker 1: in the eye and say no, because here was the 412 00:24:15,320 --> 00:24:17,159 Speaker 1: thing was that again, like you said, Brissard was a 413 00:24:17,160 --> 00:24:21,080 Speaker 1: perfectionist still is a perfectionist who wants the absolute best 414 00:24:21,080 --> 00:24:23,359 Speaker 1: for his game, which is an admirable quality, but it 415 00:24:23,400 --> 00:24:26,920 Speaker 1: means that you never let go, which we can see 416 00:24:27,000 --> 00:24:29,440 Speaker 1: there's evidence of that by the fact that this game 417 00:24:29,480 --> 00:24:32,440 Speaker 1: has yet to come out. Brian Hook was the first 418 00:24:32,440 --> 00:24:34,520 Speaker 1: person to actually stand up to Brissard and say, you 419 00:24:34,560 --> 00:24:37,000 Speaker 1: know what, that's a great idea, but we can't put 420 00:24:37,040 --> 00:24:39,000 Speaker 1: it in this game. We'll put it in the next one. 421 00:24:39,480 --> 00:24:43,600 Speaker 1: This game has to go out. We can't keep changing 422 00:24:43,640 --> 00:24:47,359 Speaker 1: things this late in the development cycle. It wasn't quite 423 00:24:47,480 --> 00:24:50,280 Speaker 1: enough to save the company. If that had happened. If 424 00:24:50,720 --> 00:24:54,040 Speaker 1: Hook had come on earlier, this game would have been out. 425 00:24:54,400 --> 00:24:56,520 Speaker 1: In fact, this game and sequels would have been out 426 00:24:56,560 --> 00:24:59,600 Speaker 1: by now. I fully believe that. But because Bisard is 427 00:24:59,640 --> 00:25:03,760 Speaker 1: a very powerful personality, um, you know, no one else 428 00:25:03,880 --> 00:25:06,240 Speaker 1: really did that, and so things just kept changing. And 429 00:25:06,240 --> 00:25:08,680 Speaker 1: I'm not really criticizing Broussard because I think I'd probably 430 00:25:08,680 --> 00:25:11,080 Speaker 1: be the same way if I saw a superior engine 431 00:25:11,080 --> 00:25:13,040 Speaker 1: come out while I'm working on this game, and I 432 00:25:13,040 --> 00:25:15,760 Speaker 1: had made my reputation on a game a few years earlier, 433 00:25:16,160 --> 00:25:18,320 Speaker 1: I would also be tempted to switch, so I can't 434 00:25:18,320 --> 00:25:22,440 Speaker 1: really criticize him. Over the next couple of years, more 435 00:25:22,600 --> 00:25:26,960 Speaker 1: screenshots get leaked to various websites and magazines. Uh. And 436 00:25:27,119 --> 00:25:29,439 Speaker 1: in two thousand nine, Broussard took a demo of the 437 00:25:29,440 --> 00:25:31,720 Speaker 1: game to Take two and he was asking them for 438 00:25:31,840 --> 00:25:36,160 Speaker 1: six million dollars additional funding to finish the game. Yes, 439 00:25:36,600 --> 00:25:39,679 Speaker 1: they had, They had run out of a lot of 440 00:25:39,680 --> 00:25:43,800 Speaker 1: their funding. And that's even with the co founders of 441 00:25:43,840 --> 00:25:46,720 Speaker 1: the company starting to put forth some of their own cash. 442 00:25:46,880 --> 00:25:50,240 Speaker 1: I read that according to the Thompson article. Yeah, I 443 00:25:50,280 --> 00:25:54,199 Speaker 1: read that. The the the head of Gearbox Software. And 444 00:25:54,240 --> 00:25:56,280 Speaker 1: we'll talk about them a little bit in a second. 445 00:25:56,560 --> 00:26:01,200 Speaker 1: Randy Pitchford. Randy Pitchford said that he leaves Broussard put 446 00:26:01,960 --> 00:26:06,240 Speaker 1: twenty to thirty million dollars of his own money into 447 00:26:06,240 --> 00:26:10,119 Speaker 1: developing this game. I mean, now, that's a story of 448 00:26:10,119 --> 00:26:13,159 Speaker 1: a man who is absolutely determined to get this thing out. 449 00:26:13,200 --> 00:26:15,440 Speaker 1: I mean, clearly, you don't. You don't put that money 450 00:26:15,520 --> 00:26:18,560 Speaker 1: into any sort of project and just consider it like 451 00:26:18,560 --> 00:26:25,040 Speaker 1: a vanity project or something that's a ton of cash. Um. Anyway, 452 00:26:25,080 --> 00:26:27,280 Speaker 1: So he Takes takes the game to Take two, and 453 00:26:27,320 --> 00:26:29,720 Speaker 1: they asked for six million dollars. Now, what happens next 454 00:26:29,880 --> 00:26:34,359 Speaker 1: depends upon whom you ask. According to Brossard and Miller, 455 00:26:34,520 --> 00:26:37,200 Speaker 1: they say that Take to initially agreed to the six 456 00:26:37,280 --> 00:26:39,200 Speaker 1: million and then said, you know what, never mind, here's 457 00:26:39,200 --> 00:26:42,520 Speaker 1: two point five million instead. What Take two says is no, 458 00:26:43,040 --> 00:26:46,159 Speaker 1: they said the six million figure was unrealistic, and so 459 00:26:46,200 --> 00:26:49,040 Speaker 1: they offered two point five million to start and an 460 00:26:49,040 --> 00:26:51,680 Speaker 1: additional two point five million once the game was finished, 461 00:26:52,400 --> 00:26:55,240 Speaker 1: but that they had rejected the six million dollar um 462 00:26:55,440 --> 00:27:00,000 Speaker 1: uh proposal in either case, Uh, three D Realms left 463 00:27:00,080 --> 00:27:04,760 Speaker 1: without the money. So then on May six, two thousand nine, 464 00:27:05,440 --> 00:27:09,640 Speaker 1: very very sad day at three D Realms, they dismissed 465 00:27:09,680 --> 00:27:13,879 Speaker 1: the development team for Duke Newcam Forever. And we're immediately 466 00:27:13,920 --> 00:27:17,120 Speaker 1: hit with a lawsuit. Yeah immediately being a week later, 467 00:27:17,160 --> 00:27:20,280 Speaker 1: but yes, well almost immediately when you're talking about a 468 00:27:20,280 --> 00:27:24,960 Speaker 1: game that's been in development for twelve years. Yeah, three 469 00:27:25,200 --> 00:27:29,280 Speaker 1: times the maximum length for a typical video game. UM 470 00:27:29,359 --> 00:27:33,359 Speaker 1: so yeah, they they released the team, They essentially fire 471 00:27:33,440 --> 00:27:37,120 Speaker 1: the development team. Now three D Realms exists to this day, Yes, 472 00:27:37,200 --> 00:27:39,880 Speaker 1: that company itself has not gone away. But that entire 473 00:27:39,920 --> 00:27:43,639 Speaker 1: division of their company is gone apart from Brossard and Miller. 474 00:27:44,280 --> 00:27:49,480 Speaker 1: Um So, then Take two does file a lawsuit against 475 00:27:49,480 --> 00:27:52,080 Speaker 1: Three D Realms, saying that they failed to deliver upon 476 00:27:52,160 --> 00:27:59,240 Speaker 1: a promise deliverable. Uh So, some people began to conjecture 477 00:27:59,840 --> 00:28:03,120 Speaker 1: the reason Take two did this was not to get 478 00:28:03,200 --> 00:28:06,360 Speaker 1: any money back from Three D Realms, but in order 479 00:28:06,359 --> 00:28:08,600 Speaker 1: to bleed the company dry so that they could get 480 00:28:08,680 --> 00:28:12,000 Speaker 1: hold of the I p of Duke Newcomb. So that 481 00:28:12,040 --> 00:28:14,919 Speaker 1: way Take two would own the distribution rights and the 482 00:28:14,960 --> 00:28:17,920 Speaker 1: actual intellectual property of Duke Nukem, and they could develop 483 00:28:17,960 --> 00:28:21,240 Speaker 1: the game anyway they want and make money in perpetuity. 484 00:28:21,600 --> 00:28:25,639 Speaker 1: That's not exactly what happened. What did happen was Randy 485 00:28:25,840 --> 00:28:29,399 Speaker 1: came along. Yeah. Now, um, I'd like to say, for 486 00:28:29,480 --> 00:28:31,919 Speaker 1: the in defense of the Thompson article, if you go 487 00:28:32,000 --> 00:28:35,199 Speaker 1: read it, you're going to go wait, this is it ends. 488 00:28:35,320 --> 00:28:37,600 Speaker 1: It ends here, The game is over, it will never 489 00:28:37,640 --> 00:28:39,920 Speaker 1: come out. There's there are lawsuits. Well, it was written 490 00:28:39,960 --> 00:28:43,400 Speaker 1: in December two thousand nine, and that really did seem 491 00:28:43,440 --> 00:28:46,840 Speaker 1: like the final word until Randy stepped in. Yeah, it 492 00:28:46,880 --> 00:28:49,160 Speaker 1: turns I was I was just gonna say that he 493 00:28:49,200 --> 00:28:52,920 Speaker 1: was a developer on Duke nukemb Three D Yes, so 494 00:28:53,040 --> 00:28:56,760 Speaker 1: he liked Duke nukembe he had some history with whom 495 00:28:56,800 --> 00:29:00,040 Speaker 1: he knew, Mr Bruce Hard. He credited a lot of 496 00:29:00,080 --> 00:29:02,960 Speaker 1: his own personal success with the lessons he learned back 497 00:29:03,000 --> 00:29:07,640 Speaker 1: when he was working on that initial project. And he uh, 498 00:29:07,680 --> 00:29:10,480 Speaker 1: he's also a very passionate guy. It turns out these 499 00:29:10,480 --> 00:29:15,040 Speaker 1: guys are not shy, no, and they're they're very driven people. Yeah. 500 00:29:15,200 --> 00:29:19,400 Speaker 1: They are also not afraid to use colorful metaphors, as 501 00:29:19,440 --> 00:29:23,160 Speaker 1: Spock would say, okay um, because in every quote I read, 502 00:29:23,200 --> 00:29:25,320 Speaker 1: I was like, I can't say that one on the podcast, 503 00:29:26,560 --> 00:29:31,520 Speaker 1: not without some beeping anyway. So yeah. Randy Pitchford heads 504 00:29:31,560 --> 00:29:36,520 Speaker 1: a company called Gearbox Software, and Gearbox Software according well, 505 00:29:36,560 --> 00:29:40,720 Speaker 1: according to Randy, three D Realms sold the intellectual property 506 00:29:40,760 --> 00:29:43,719 Speaker 1: to Gearbox Software. Some people say Gearbox Software, I went 507 00:29:43,760 --> 00:29:46,280 Speaker 1: out and bought the intellectual property, and Randy says, no, 508 00:29:46,440 --> 00:29:48,760 Speaker 1: they sold it to me. And it really is just 509 00:29:48,800 --> 00:29:51,200 Speaker 1: a matter of perspective, saying that what that means is 510 00:29:51,280 --> 00:29:54,000 Speaker 1: the people at three Realms felt that Gearbox Software, out 511 00:29:54,040 --> 00:29:55,720 Speaker 1: of all the companies in the world, would be the 512 00:29:55,720 --> 00:29:58,800 Speaker 1: one that would preserve their vision for the game and 513 00:29:58,920 --> 00:30:01,760 Speaker 1: keep it true what they had been working on for 514 00:30:01,800 --> 00:30:04,920 Speaker 1: more than a decade. Right, Well, yeah, that that what 515 00:30:04,960 --> 00:30:07,480 Speaker 1: I read was the article that you sent me, Jonathan 516 00:30:07,520 --> 00:30:11,240 Speaker 1: from Nick Cowen in a telegraph um and from from 517 00:30:11,240 --> 00:30:14,560 Speaker 1: what it it sounds like from reading that article, it's 518 00:30:14,640 --> 00:30:20,080 Speaker 1: important to Mr Pitchford that it stays. He said, Honestly, 519 00:30:20,080 --> 00:30:22,480 Speaker 1: it could the company could go in a different direction. 520 00:30:22,520 --> 00:30:26,800 Speaker 1: A lot of companies would take Duke Newcomb and throw 521 00:30:26,880 --> 00:30:29,040 Speaker 1: the old game out and build a new game with 522 00:30:29,160 --> 00:30:32,080 Speaker 1: him as the lead character. But they're trying to preserve 523 00:30:32,160 --> 00:30:34,320 Speaker 1: as much as they can, not to mention what Three 524 00:30:34,360 --> 00:30:36,320 Speaker 1: D Realms had done. It also falls into the danger 525 00:30:36,320 --> 00:30:39,440 Speaker 1: that Bissard fell into that, you know, you try and 526 00:30:39,520 --> 00:30:42,880 Speaker 1: change everything, you may keep this lingering in development instead 527 00:30:42,880 --> 00:30:46,640 Speaker 1: of actually coming out as a game. Right. So, Randy 528 00:30:46,680 --> 00:30:49,040 Speaker 1: decided that he wanted to just put the finishing touches 529 00:30:49,040 --> 00:30:51,880 Speaker 1: on this game, which included lots of stuff. He said 530 00:30:51,920 --> 00:30:55,440 Speaker 1: that the game was not not close to being finished, 531 00:30:55,480 --> 00:30:57,160 Speaker 1: but at the same time, it wasn't gonna make any 532 00:30:57,200 --> 00:30:59,520 Speaker 1: fundamental changes. He was just going to complete the work 533 00:30:59,560 --> 00:31:03,440 Speaker 1: that already been started and then polish it. So he 534 00:31:03,520 --> 00:31:07,480 Speaker 1: announced at Penny Arcade Expo UH September two thousand ten 535 00:31:07,640 --> 00:31:11,680 Speaker 1: that Gearbox Software was bringing the Duke back, and this 536 00:31:11,720 --> 00:31:15,440 Speaker 1: was the first public announcement of Gearbox Software being involved 537 00:31:15,440 --> 00:31:17,760 Speaker 1: in Duke newkemb forever. And he said, the game's coming 538 00:31:17,760 --> 00:31:19,640 Speaker 1: out and you'll have it in your hands in two 539 00:31:19,640 --> 00:31:23,520 Speaker 1: thousand eleven, and I brought demos. He let the crowd 540 00:31:23,640 --> 00:31:26,120 Speaker 1: come in. Anyone who is seventeen or older could play 541 00:31:26,160 --> 00:31:29,960 Speaker 1: the demo because it has some objectionable material in it 542 00:31:30,400 --> 00:31:33,840 Speaker 1: um but the which I will not go into, but 543 00:31:33,920 --> 00:31:38,480 Speaker 1: at any rate, they they allowed. He allowed players to 544 00:31:38,680 --> 00:31:40,800 Speaker 1: line up and try out the demo and it got 545 00:31:40,840 --> 00:31:43,440 Speaker 1: a lot of positive reviews, saying that it brought back 546 00:31:43,480 --> 00:31:45,640 Speaker 1: the spirit of the old Duke Newcomb games that has 547 00:31:45,680 --> 00:31:48,239 Speaker 1: that same sort of cheesy since of humor. Um. Some 548 00:31:48,280 --> 00:31:50,880 Speaker 1: people question whether or not that's even relevant today, because 549 00:31:51,160 --> 00:31:54,320 Speaker 1: you know, Duke Newcombe came to prominence during the whole 550 00:31:54,640 --> 00:31:59,120 Speaker 1: like the real big beefy action hero movie craze like 551 00:31:59,200 --> 00:32:04,400 Speaker 1: die Hard, Predator and all of those movies Rambo, and 552 00:32:04,440 --> 00:32:06,320 Speaker 1: then we kind of went through a period where that 553 00:32:06,440 --> 00:32:09,920 Speaker 1: sort of fell out of style, although you could argue 554 00:32:09,960 --> 00:32:13,800 Speaker 1: that with movies like the latest Rambo movie and the Expendables, 555 00:32:13,800 --> 00:32:15,880 Speaker 1: that there's a bit of a throwback that's coming into 556 00:32:16,000 --> 00:32:18,480 Speaker 1: vogue right now, and maybe a good time for the man. 557 00:32:18,720 --> 00:32:20,960 Speaker 1: It might became perfect for them to jump, and maybe 558 00:32:20,960 --> 00:32:25,120 Speaker 1: it'll spiral into a whole new era of us making terrible, 559 00:32:25,280 --> 00:32:29,440 Speaker 1: terrible cliche quotes and and then walking away in slow motion. 560 00:32:30,040 --> 00:32:32,120 Speaker 1: At any rate, So two thousand and eleven is when 561 00:32:32,160 --> 00:32:35,040 Speaker 1: we expect to see this game, and um, I'll probably 562 00:32:35,040 --> 00:32:37,560 Speaker 1: play it. I played the first Duke NUKEMB, well, the 563 00:32:37,640 --> 00:32:40,000 Speaker 1: Duke NUKEMB three D. I didn't play the side scroller. 564 00:32:40,880 --> 00:32:44,880 Speaker 1: I have to say, though, it's um Whereas a lot 565 00:32:45,040 --> 00:32:50,480 Speaker 1: of other types of games, UH might falter after a 566 00:32:50,520 --> 00:32:53,720 Speaker 1: development cycle this long. One thing that three D Realms 567 00:32:53,760 --> 00:32:59,120 Speaker 1: did right is to create a personality um that's driven serious, 568 00:32:59,160 --> 00:33:01,720 Speaker 1: heavy duty fan base. I mean there there are lots 569 00:33:01,720 --> 00:33:04,640 Speaker 1: and lots of fans other than just Jonathan here who 570 00:33:04,680 --> 00:33:07,160 Speaker 1: really want to play this game because they loved the 571 00:33:07,240 --> 00:33:09,560 Speaker 1: kind of game it was, and they love the character 572 00:33:10,160 --> 00:33:12,480 Speaker 1: behind it. I mean you've got people like Mario and 573 00:33:12,920 --> 00:33:16,920 Speaker 1: Sonic and Lara Croft and some of the others, um, 574 00:33:16,960 --> 00:33:21,000 Speaker 1: you know, other other lesser characters probably would not have 575 00:33:21,040 --> 00:33:25,480 Speaker 1: been supported through this long, long period of vaporware for 576 00:33:25,520 --> 00:33:28,240 Speaker 1: this game. But I honestly think that they certainly did 577 00:33:28,240 --> 00:33:32,160 Speaker 1: something right by creating such a memorable action hero for 578 00:33:32,200 --> 00:33:35,760 Speaker 1: this game. Definitely, and we'll have to I'll have to 579 00:33:35,800 --> 00:33:39,560 Speaker 1: see how the public reacts to this this game coming out. 580 00:33:39,680 --> 00:33:42,640 Speaker 1: It's um, it's been a long time coming, and really, 581 00:33:42,760 --> 00:33:44,960 Speaker 1: at this point, I think it's impossible to say that 582 00:33:45,040 --> 00:33:47,440 Speaker 1: any game could live up to the expectations of a 583 00:33:47,480 --> 00:33:52,120 Speaker 1: thirteen year development cycle. But um, hopefully it won't just 584 00:33:52,240 --> 00:33:54,200 Speaker 1: crash and burn right all the gate. I would love 585 00:33:54,240 --> 00:33:57,400 Speaker 1: to actually see it succeed. For one thing, I anytime 586 00:33:57,480 --> 00:34:01,080 Speaker 1: you can add more variety to the first person shooter genre, 587 00:34:01,280 --> 00:34:03,760 Speaker 1: I'm I'm happy to see it. Uh. You know, there's 588 00:34:03,800 --> 00:34:06,720 Speaker 1: some great examples out there, and there's some, but it's 589 00:34:06,720 --> 00:34:09,440 Speaker 1: always nice to have another entry into there, especially if 590 00:34:09,480 --> 00:34:11,319 Speaker 1: it's if it's one that's got, you know, some history 591 00:34:11,360 --> 00:34:13,799 Speaker 1: behind it. So we'll keep our eyes open. We'll let 592 00:34:13,840 --> 00:34:15,560 Speaker 1: you guys know what we think, or at least I'll 593 00:34:15,600 --> 00:34:16,960 Speaker 1: let you know what I think when I get my 594 00:34:17,080 --> 00:34:20,319 Speaker 1: hot little hands on it. And uh, that wraps up 595 00:34:20,320 --> 00:34:23,560 Speaker 1: this discussion about Duke Nukem Forever it's something that I honestly, 596 00:34:23,760 --> 00:34:27,319 Speaker 1: for a while there I wasn't expecting to see it ever. Ever, Yeah, 597 00:34:27,360 --> 00:34:29,880 Speaker 1: I don't think out yet, so I shouldn't. I shouldn't 598 00:34:29,920 --> 00:34:33,160 Speaker 1: count my chickens or anything. But at any rate, if 599 00:34:33,200 --> 00:34:35,960 Speaker 1: you guys have any suggestions for topics we should tackle, 600 00:34:36,040 --> 00:34:38,560 Speaker 1: or you have any other like the story of pac 601 00:34:38,640 --> 00:34:42,080 Speaker 1: Man or something that you really want us to to 602 00:34:42,120 --> 00:34:44,319 Speaker 1: sit down and have a detailed discussion over, let us know. 603 00:34:44,920 --> 00:34:47,080 Speaker 1: You can let us know on Facebook or Twitter. Are 604 00:34:47,200 --> 00:34:50,520 Speaker 1: handled there is tech Stuff hs W, or you can 605 00:34:50,600 --> 00:34:53,759 Speaker 1: email us at tech stuff at health stuff works dot 606 00:34:53,760 --> 00:34:55,360 Speaker 1: com and Chris and I will talk to you again 607 00:34:55,880 --> 00:35:02,000 Speaker 1: really soon if you're a tech stuff and be sure 608 00:35:02,040 --> 00:35:05,840 Speaker 1: to check us out on Twitter Text Stuff hs wsr 609 00:35:05,880 --> 00:35:08,200 Speaker 1: handle and you can also find us on Facebook at 610 00:35:08,200 --> 00:35:12,799 Speaker 1: Facebook dot com slash tech Stuff h s W. For 611 00:35:12,920 --> 00:35:15,400 Speaker 1: more on this and thousands of other topics, visit how 612 00:35:15,480 --> 00:35:17,879 Speaker 1: stuff works dot com and be sure to check out 613 00:35:17,880 --> 00:35:20,040 Speaker 1: the new tech stuff blog now on the house stuff 614 00:35:20,080 --> 00:35:27,560 Speaker 1: Works homepage. 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