Speaker 1: This is Alec Baldwin and you're listening to Here's the thing.
Speaker 1: Mark Kuddish is a Broadway stable romantic lead, comic, relief
Speaker 1: or villain. If you've been to a musical in recent years,
Speaker 1: there's a decent chance Kuddish was in it. He played
Speaker 1: the proprietor in Assassin's Gaston in Beauty and the Beast,
Speaker 1: and the sexist boss in Dolly Parton's Five. You're so
Speaker 1: efficient and alert and the way you look well ship,
Speaker 1: that don't hurt now. Please don't think I'm just a flute.
Speaker 1: It's just some nuts about here you. Kuddish got one
Speaker 1: of his three Tony nominations for that one. When we
Speaker 1: recorded this conversation, he was just a couple of weeks
Speaker 1: into a starring role in Girl from the North Country.
Speaker 1: It's one of the most critically acclaimed performances of his career.
Speaker 1: He plays the washed up big shot Mr Burke, trying
Speaker 1: to hold on to his pride and his wife during
Speaker 1: the Great Depression. But of course, with the rest of Broadway,
Speaker 1: the curtain has come down on Girl from the North Country.
Speaker 1: While we wait out the coronavirus. On screen, Kudish has
Speaker 1: carved out a niche for himself working for the greatest
Speaker 1: Ohtour directors in TV, including David Fincher in Mine Hunter
Speaker 1: and Barry Sonnenfeld in The Tick. His current TV role
Speaker 1: is Dr Gus, the intense love to hate him corporate
Speaker 1: coach in Billions. And if you don't cut down everyone
Speaker 1: and everything that gets in your way, then they will
Speaker 1: return and they will cut you to shreds, and then
Speaker 1: they will cover those shreds in buk Hockey. Well, it's
Speaker 1: a life he had trouble imagining. Back in nine when
Speaker 1: he was a senior at Florida Atlantic University about to graduate,
Speaker 1: had launched his acting career. Kudish had one friend who
Speaker 1: had already headed it to New York City and was
Speaker 1: working at a casting agency. So she called me down
Speaker 1: in Florida. They were casting a new role on the
Speaker 1: soap opera All My Children. I happened to be in
Speaker 1: the office of the theater department. She got me on
Speaker 1: the phone and she said, there's a role. I think
Speaker 1: you'd be pleased. Don't tell me you did the soap.
Speaker 1: I didn't get the role. I've done All my Kids. Yeah,
Speaker 1: but ahead, yeah, listen, man, the great jobs. So I
Speaker 1: flew to New York on my own dime. I slept
Speaker 1: on their couch. I was there for twenty four hours.
Speaker 1: I went to the audition. She had told everyone, if
Speaker 1: you like him, he's only here for twenty four hours.
Speaker 1: He's got a job down in South Florida. Um, which
Speaker 1: actually I did. I was at the Florida Shakespeare Festival
Speaker 1: at the time. At the same time time. While I
Speaker 1: was there, Pat took me this will tell you exactly
Speaker 1: what it was two times square, because there was a
Speaker 1: big benefit at the time to raise money from Mike
Speaker 1: Ducoccus for president, and Bernadette and Mandy we're like hosting
Speaker 1: the event. And I was standing right next to the stage,
Speaker 1: and God bless him, there was Mandy and all of
Speaker 1: his powers, singing, brother, can you spare a dime? He
Speaker 1: was just up there. One I had built a railroad,
Speaker 1: made it run, and it's like there's like there's like
Speaker 1: ten in your pocket. These well, I mean I've worked
Speaker 1: with Mandy's so I've spent lots of time. You know.
Speaker 1: There are a couple of people like Eartha. I I
Speaker 1: God bless Eartha. I adore her. I miss her, dearly
Speaker 1: Eartha kid, I do a really mean, earth, kid, We're
Speaker 1: going to get there. So you're there in the shadows
Speaker 1: of Mandy, in the shadows of many Burnadette. And it
Speaker 1: was like that was it for me. I'm like, I'm
Speaker 1: moving to New York as fast as I freaking can
Speaker 1: because I have to be here. I got my equity
Speaker 1: card from the Caldwell Theater Company in boke ratone because
Speaker 1: I didn't want to move to New York unless I
Speaker 1: had my equity card, you know, that was important to me.
Speaker 1: And then the minute I got my card, I was
Speaker 1: in a U haul. Twenty four hours later, I moved
Speaker 1: to New York City, where I moved to seventy one
Speaker 1: between Broadway and Columbus basement apartment with a buddy of mine,
Speaker 1: Cafe Luxembourg. Baby, your right there right across the street.
Speaker 1: Six hundred bucks a month for that apartment for two guys,
Speaker 1: back lat Man. Even when I moved to the city, Like,
Speaker 1: you didn't go above eighties six street right like like
Speaker 1: it was like, and you didn't go and you didn't
Speaker 1: go into Times Square. You do not go into Times Square,
Speaker 1: not even during the day. Did you go in the park. No,
Speaker 1: you didn't cut through the park at night. All the
Speaker 1: benches were broken, all the lights were broken. It was
Speaker 1: a fascinating place back then. I remember, like you know,
Speaker 1: and and I remember at night, you would walk with
Speaker 1: your head down. You would walk with your head down,
Speaker 1: and you'd walk in the street and you'd watch the
Speaker 1: shadows behind you. That's why you walk with your head down,
Speaker 1: so you could see the shadows of anybody. And you
Speaker 1: just got into that practice of it. I mean, I
Speaker 1: remember there was a night that I moved to Talent,
Speaker 1: my friend Stuart Clark and Rachel by Jones. We we
Speaker 1: all moved up here together, and um, and I remember
Speaker 1: like she got here earlier than we did, and like
Speaker 1: two weeks she got here, she got a Broadway show
Speaker 1: and we were both like, oh jeez, and like, is
Speaker 1: that how it works for everybody? Or is that just
Speaker 1: for a select few? And the minute I got to town,
Speaker 1: the first thing I did was I walked five blocks north,
Speaker 1: five blocks south. Okay, that's a ten block radius. Right.
Speaker 1: Then the next day I got up and I walked
Speaker 1: another five blocks north and another five blocks after that south.
Speaker 1: Eventually I got to the theater district from seventy first
Speaker 1: Street right and on my third day here. I walked
Speaker 1: into a restaurant and I applied for a wait job
Speaker 1: and I got it, and so I started waiting tables immediately,
Speaker 1: and it was fascinating. And that's how I met people,
Speaker 1: you know, and I met my buddy Rick Clemens, who
Speaker 1: was a bouncer. But I mean, it was such a
Speaker 1: wild experience to go into a show in New York
Speaker 1: and off Broadway and off Broadway now you know. I
Speaker 1: just got into the city a couple of months later.
Speaker 1: And where which is where I always wanted to be,
Speaker 1: Like you worked a Circle Rep. Yes, that was my
Speaker 1: dreaming nine, moving to New York City working for Circle Rep.
Speaker 1: That's the kind of work that I wanted to do.
Speaker 1: Because I didn't sing. I didn't sing at all. That
Speaker 1: wasn't what I did. Didn't I didn't sing? It is that?
Speaker 1: Is it really true? I did not have This is
Speaker 1: such a powerful inspiration. You would say, you don't sing.
Speaker 1: I want to know, but I'll tell you. I wanted
Speaker 1: to get into music theater. I remember I had auditioned
Speaker 1: early for Kiss of the Spider Woman and I was
Speaker 1: at the final call for that and I was auditioning
Speaker 1: for one of the roles. And how Prince comes up
Speaker 1: on the stage. And this is back in the day
Speaker 1: when you actually audition on the Broadway stage, not in
Speaker 1: some small room. Up on the stage. Peter Hall and
Speaker 1: and and and how comes up on the stage and
Speaker 1: he's like, Mark, you know, I love you as an actor,
Speaker 1: but I really need a singer for this. I mean
Speaker 1: I had people telling me Mark, you don't sing, You
Speaker 1: just don't sing. I had casting directors say, why do
Speaker 1: you want to audition for musicals? Mark, You're an actor.
Speaker 1: People know he was an actor. They like you as
Speaker 1: an actor, but I like music theater, and I was
Speaker 1: an arrogant son of a bitch. I mean, I just
Speaker 1: thought like, well, damn, these people cannot act and I
Speaker 1: can act, So all I have to do is learn
Speaker 1: to sing a little, dance a little please. And you
Speaker 1: also learn in the industry that, like, even as an actor,
Speaker 1: you're up against other celebrity people that are up for
Speaker 1: the same role as you. You better expand your horizons
Speaker 1: if you want to work. Right, So I get Gaston
Speaker 1: and as I'm in the show and I'm working, I
Speaker 1: have this wonderful dresser. Eric was his name. He's an
Speaker 1: ex bass operatic singer and one night, he's literally tying
Speaker 1: me into that damn leather outfit that guest don has
Speaker 1: to wear because like that's how you get in the costume.
Speaker 1: They tie you into that sucker. And he's lacing me
Speaker 1: into that thing. And he says, you have such a
Speaker 1: beautiful voice, Mark, and I said, thanks, dude, I appreciate that.
Speaker 1: And he said, it's too bad you only use of it.
Speaker 1: This is right before show. Now, obviously, I part, did
Speaker 1: you say something? No, seriously, Like, I looked at him,
Speaker 1: and what you want to say is if you you bitch,
Speaker 1: like literally, dude, But what came out of my mouth
Speaker 1: was then what do I do? Because I knew he
Speaker 1: wasn't wrong? And then he just handed me Alan alan
Speaker 1: Seal's card um and I went and I met with
Speaker 1: my teacher, Alan Seal, and I walked in and I'm like,
Speaker 1: I've had lessons with other people. I'm not sure if
Speaker 1: I'm a tenor or I'm a baritone. And he's like, well,
Speaker 1: let's not worry about that, let's just hear you. And
Speaker 1: I worked with him for an hour. By the end
Speaker 1: of that lesson, sound was coming out of me that
Speaker 1: I didn't know I could do, and literally. I was like, so, yeah,
Speaker 1: Alan still alive, and Alan is teaching and he's in
Speaker 1: Upper New York, I think. And he got out of
Speaker 1: teaching voice. Um. Most of his students were doing opera
Speaker 1: in Europe and he was taking on one or two
Speaker 1: music theater people. And I mean literally, I'm not kidding you.
Speaker 1: I I walked out of there going I will be back. Um.
Speaker 1: I didn't know I could make sound like that. So
Speaker 1: then I went to the theater and I started to
Speaker 1: try to apply what I had been learning with him,
Speaker 1: and everyone was coming up to me going like, what
Speaker 1: what are you doing? What is this voice? My friend
Speaker 1: Beth Fowler was like, when did Alfred Drake show up?
Speaker 1: Because I did not sound like that, you know I did.
Speaker 1: You sounded completely completely different at different persons being able
Speaker 1: to pull out a gun, and you pull out this gun.
Speaker 1: You can sing? Now? Are you? Said? There? Going? Man?
Speaker 1: This feels good. Give me a task. That's the thing.
Speaker 1: I like, Give me a task and I will do it.
Speaker 1: Give me a deadline and I will do it. And
Speaker 1: I just was like learning. And that's the thing. I
Speaker 1: don't think you ever stopped learning in this industry or
Speaker 1: in life. And you shouldn't. And I just was like
Speaker 1: making sound that I had never felt before, and I
Speaker 1: knew other people who could, and now I was beginning
Speaker 1: to understand how they did. So it wasn't this thing
Speaker 1: that was, you know, out of my grasp. And then
Speaker 1: I remember stage management sat me down that weekend and said,
Speaker 1: all right, so let's talk about the new voice. Literally,
Speaker 1: you were not hired with that voice. And I said,
Speaker 1: uh huh, and um, are you hurting yourself? Are you okay?
Speaker 1: I'm I feel good? Do you give some device? Literally
Speaker 1: they were like, they literally were like freaked out. Keep
Speaker 1: doing what you're doing if you feel like you're not
Speaker 1: hurting yourself. But I need to have people come back
Speaker 1: and hear you because this is not how you were hired.
Speaker 1: This is not our show well or this is not
Speaker 1: who changed a critical element like that exactly because it
Speaker 1: was a big difference, and everyone came and saw it
Speaker 1: and they were all like, you sound great, good for you.
Speaker 1: It was it was so wonderful and you put it
Speaker 1: out there. You put it out there, listen, and I mean,
Speaker 1: because here's the thing, man like, And this is why
Speaker 1: I say it because as actors, as classical actors, we
Speaker 1: get very self conscious when we're asked to sing because
Speaker 1: we just don't have the same kind of practice to it.
Speaker 1: So I had started to work with other teachers, and
Speaker 1: I just didn't feel like there was I wasn't It
Speaker 1: didn't feel comfortable or I just felt like I wasn't
Speaker 1: matching personalities. What's the first year you're singing? I mean
Speaker 1: when I was in college, it was once the first
Speaker 1: year you're singing in New York. In New York, it
Speaker 1: was Bye Bye Birdie. That's where I like got my
Speaker 1: break with music. Theater was by Bye Birdie. That Bye
Speaker 1: Bye Birdie. It was a national tour with Tommy Toon
Speaker 1: and a ranking directed by Gene Sacks. I mean we
Speaker 1: were coming to Broadway. That was back in the day
Speaker 1: when instead of you know, doing workshops and going to
Speaker 1: regional theater, you did a major national tour. And the
Speaker 1: way that producers would be able to enhance a Broadway
Speaker 1: run is they'd go out on the road for nine
Speaker 1: months and that they'd make their money there and then
Speaker 1: they'd use that money to open on Broadway. How does
Speaker 1: Sacks find you to put you in Birtie? So honestly,
Speaker 1: um my agents are working for me. But the problem
Speaker 1: is I can't be seen for any music theater because
Speaker 1: I have no musical theater credits, so even with an agent,
Speaker 1: no one will see me at all. So I'm going
Speaker 1: to the open calls because I believed in the open
Speaker 1: calls back then. I figured, screw it, you gotta look
Speaker 1: at me now, even if it's an assistant. I went
Speaker 1: into the open call of Birdie and I got called
Speaker 1: back to the main casting director. I went in again,
Speaker 1: and then he brought me, uh three months later into
Speaker 1: a final call. And this is a true story. So
Speaker 1: it's Stuart Thompson is the casting director. And as I'm
Speaker 1: getting ready, and this is at the Broadhurst Theater where
Speaker 1: everyone can be seen, and the holding pen for all
Speaker 1: of the actors is in the balcony, so everyone is
Speaker 1: able to watch everyone else's auditions. If that's not intimidating enough.
Speaker 1: So I'm getting ready to go in there, and I'm
Speaker 1: wearing my leather jacket, first thing I ever bought New
Speaker 1: York City in eight eight, because that's what a New
Speaker 1: Yorker wears. I got my black boots with the silver
Speaker 1: studs and stuff on him. I mean, we're talking very here.
Speaker 1: And then as I'm about to go in, Stewart stops
Speaker 1: me and he says, whatever you do, do not sing Sincere.
Speaker 1: Now that's thus song of the character Conrad and Conrad Bertie.
Speaker 1: And I just and I was like, wait a minute,
Speaker 1: do you mean that's And he was like, don't sing it.
Speaker 1: They've heard it, they've heard it all day long. They
Speaker 1: don't want to hear it. Sing something else if you.
Speaker 1: And he says this to me right before my audition,
Speaker 1: and he says, okay, go. So now I'm walking down
Speaker 1: the aisle of the theater and I'm walking by the Weisslers,
Speaker 1: who are the lead producers, and I'm walking by Tommy
Speaker 1: and there's an Rankings sitting next to Tommy, and then
Speaker 1: there's Gene Sachs sitting there. And I walk up onto
Speaker 1: the stage and then I walk over to the accompanist.
Speaker 1: His name's Brad Garcide, and I'll never forget his name
Speaker 1: because Brad looks at me and he says, are you okay?
Speaker 1: And I said, they told me not to sing Sincere.
Speaker 1: And he's like, well, what do you prepare? I said,
Speaker 1: Sincere that's all I have. That's literally all I have.
Speaker 1: And he said to me and I mean it, this
Speaker 1: is He said, whose audition is this, and I said mine.
Speaker 1: He's like, or sing your damn song? So I did.
Speaker 1: Who was it that said, don't sing since here? Stewart
Speaker 1: the casting director, don't sing it. They've been hearing it
Speaker 1: all afternoon. Don't do it. So I got up on
Speaker 1: the stage and it's very well known. The first chord
Speaker 1: of Sincere is very clear. You know it's Sincere when
Speaker 1: it starts. So he hits the piano and we hear
Speaker 1: that first chord, and all the way at the back
Speaker 1: of the house, I see Stewart throw up his hands
Speaker 1: and walk right out of my audition before I've even
Speaker 1: opened my mouth. But I figured, a, this is the
Speaker 1: first and last time I'm going to be on a
Speaker 1: Broadway stage. All I got this is the first and
Speaker 1: last time I'm going to play this role. Or sing
Speaker 1: Kiss and one Last Kiss. A lot of living to do.
Speaker 1: But Sincere is his signature number. So I do it
Speaker 1: because I'm like, I have nothing to lose here, because
Speaker 1: clearly this isn't gonna work out. I mean, the casting
Speaker 1: director just literally walked out on me. So I did it,
Speaker 1: and I actually had a good time, and I let
Speaker 1: myself loose with it, and by the time I got
Speaker 1: to the end of the song, I was getting applause
Speaker 1: from everybody else auditioning up in the balcony. And then
Speaker 1: I tried to run away as fast as I could.
Speaker 1: I was just so happy because I wasn't a singer right.
Speaker 1: And then I heard Jeane yell at me, Mark, come
Speaker 1: on back, so I can't use you want to read? Yes,
Speaker 1: I do, because I'm an actor and that's what I
Speaker 1: know how to do. Then I read the scenes and
Speaker 1: that went well, and then I tried to get the
Speaker 1: hell out there, and then he wanted to talk to
Speaker 1: me for a while. So then I'm standing there amongst them,
Speaker 1: these demigods, and he's like, where are you from? Fort Lauderdale?
Speaker 1: Where is your father from? Brooklyn, Ah? Where Avenue M
Speaker 1: I grew up on k okay Um. And it was
Speaker 1: this wonderful audition, and he said thank you so much
Speaker 1: for coming in. That was great. And then I was
Speaker 1: walking up and I was on cloud nine. And then
Speaker 1: right before I leave, Stuart Thompson stops me, looks me
Speaker 1: in the eye and says, thank you for not listening
Speaker 1: to me. I always remember that movie. My dad got
Speaker 1: from the school. Uh what year did the movie come out?
Speaker 1: I can't remember. I want to say sixties, the six
Speaker 1: or something some some of you. So so I'm a kid,
Speaker 1: I'm a little child. We're in the background of our house,
Speaker 1: and I think we watched it every night. My mother
Speaker 1: would make popcorn and cupcakes and cool aid. I mean,
Speaker 1: I'm sitting there, you know, scizzling steaks just ready for
Speaker 1: taste in. You know. I mean I knew every word. Yeah,
Speaker 1: We're all running around the house and driving my mother
Speaker 1: and saying, I got a lot of living to do,
Speaker 1: you know, Dad, we knew every note. We watched the
Speaker 1: fucking movie eight times in a row before my father said, okay, enough,
Speaker 1: we're gonna turn that off. And that's a bad movie. Man,
Speaker 1: let's be honest. And I love that movie. I know
Speaker 1: everybody loves the movie and it's horrible. Watch it again.
Speaker 1: What's with the turtle? The turtle that's running on the being.
Speaker 1: I know they're brilliant actors, all of them. I love them,
Speaker 1: But you know, what's the matter with kids? All those
Speaker 1: I remember every word. Look, the music is genius, and
Speaker 1: when it came out, no one had ever done anything
Speaker 1: like that. Oh my god, Bobby right out who I
Speaker 1: met when I was on tour. No, oh, yeah, Bobby
Speaker 1: was great. But then Bobby wanted to sing along, like
Speaker 1: like we went to uh we went to a bar afterwards,
Speaker 1: and yeah, pretty much. It was it was funny. It
Speaker 1: was fun Listen. You get to work with these people
Speaker 1: because it was with Lee Adams and it was with
Speaker 1: Charles you know that wrote the score. I mean, when
Speaker 1: you get the opportunity to work with these people that
Speaker 1: built this thing. When I did Bells are ringing on
Speaker 1: Broadway with Faith Prince and you get to work with
Speaker 1: aid Off and you get to work you know. I
Speaker 1: mean like when when Betty camped in an Adolf Green
Speaker 1: and these were like you know, you know that Oklahoma
Speaker 1: was forty three, they were forty four. They were there
Speaker 1: at the beginning. And you're actually working with these people
Speaker 1: and you're making changes with these people. You say, is
Speaker 1: this like like this doesn't make sense to me? Will
Speaker 1: No one's ever asked us that in fifty six years.
Speaker 1: There's something to be said for the fact that those
Speaker 1: of us that are in the theater never want to stop.
Speaker 1: That's why I love it, because it's something that is
Speaker 1: always alive. It's not frozen in any kind of time.
Speaker 1: The minute you take a piece, bells are ringing or
Speaker 1: Shakespeare or Arthur Miller, and you put it on the
Speaker 1: stage again, it is alive again, and there are questions
Speaker 1: to be had, and we never stop asking questions. That's
Speaker 1: why I like the theater. Film and television is great,
Speaker 1: don't get me wrong. But you can throw down a
Speaker 1: line and ten years later someone can tell you the
Speaker 1: line that you did in in in that film. You
Speaker 1: don't you don't remember that you're Those lines are fillers
Speaker 1: in my life. When I was in college and I
Speaker 1: still had enough of I want to want to sound
Speaker 1: vain here, but I had enough of a beauty quotation
Speaker 1: back then when I was young, I'd be with my
Speaker 1: girlfriend if i'd be leaving Anko one less kiss maybe
Speaker 1: where those those songs are in your head, they never
Speaker 1: get out of your head because it's every night, and
Speaker 1: it's alive every night. Actor Marc Kudish, another Broadway grade
Speaker 1: who got started doing edgy small house fair is Julie Tamore.
Speaker 1: Her show The Lion King, with its masks and spectacular
Speaker 1: head dresses, is the highest grossing show in Broadway history,
Speaker 1: but the masked choreography had its roots and one of
Speaker 1: Taymore's earliest experiences in the arts. I graduated high school
Speaker 1: early and went to Paris at sixteen, and I lived
Speaker 1: with this twenty one year old Deborah Tate, who was
Speaker 1: a photographer and who was wild. We're living in Paris
Speaker 1: and I mean old sixteen and I went to mind school.
Speaker 1: I went to call to mean Jacques Lecoq. Yes, let
Speaker 1: Jacques Lecoq. This is where I started really understanding the
Speaker 1: power of mask, the mask and even poppetry. She would
Speaker 1: this this crazy lady named Madame Citroen, who looked like
Speaker 1: a lemon. She was like a lemon. She was very brutal,
Speaker 1: but she would take We would take objects, bru rooms
Speaker 1: and candles and all kinds of objects and make them
Speaker 1: come alive. You can get a link to my full
Speaker 1: interview with Julie Taymore by texting t A Y m
Speaker 1: O R two seven zero one zero one. Coming up,
Speaker 1: Mark Kudish on his most recent Broadway role, Sondheim and
Speaker 1: Dungeons and Dragons. That's next. I'm Alec Baldwin and this
Speaker 1: is here's the thing. I'm back with actor Marc Kudish
Speaker 1: Girl from the North Country, his most recent performance on Broadway,
Speaker 1: is a show that's hard to pin down to one genre.
Speaker 1: It's categorized as a musical because there's music in it,
Speaker 1: and that's music Bye and music by Bob Dylans. So
Speaker 1: it's Bob Dylan's music, but it is Connor mcphers and
Speaker 1: the Irish play right. It's his construct, it's his idea.
Speaker 1: He was inspired by Dylan's music. But it's an original story.
Speaker 1: It's not an easy thing to take pre existing music
Speaker 1: and create a play using it. And I think a
Speaker 1: lot of the pitfall, you know, because there are people
Speaker 1: that want to call it jukebox musical. Okay, I get it,
Speaker 1: I got it. You know you don't. You can't take
Speaker 1: a pre existing piece and try to shove it into
Speaker 1: a storyline that it was never intended for. That's always
Speaker 1: going to feel like it's being bent and trying to
Speaker 1: be torqud in a way that it was never intended for.
Speaker 1: There's nothing organic about it, McPherson wrote, who directed McPherson. No, Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's so deeply Connor all the way around, even the
Speaker 1: way that he's taken the music and embedded it within
Speaker 1: and around the play. No one else could have directed it.
Speaker 1: You know, he's not precious about his writing at all.
Speaker 1: He's about the moment. He's not so much about the dialogue.
Speaker 1: I remember when rehearsals, he's like, if you can't remember
Speaker 1: a line, don't worry about the line. The line makes
Speaker 1: something up. Just keep moving forward. It's about the moment.
Speaker 1: It's about the moment. I met him before I never
Speaker 1: met him. I was asked to do a presentation of it, gosh,
Speaker 1: almost two years ago now at the Public Theater, and
Speaker 1: I just was so taken by it. It's very O'Neil esque.
Speaker 1: Jack London asked Arthur Miller esked like it took an
Speaker 1: Irishman to write the most American piece of theater that
Speaker 1: I've done in a long time. This was workshop in
Speaker 1: the Public. Well, it was originally done in the UK,
Speaker 1: and it was Dylan, of all people, who had said,
Speaker 1: if you're going to bring it to the States after
Speaker 1: because Dylan's people had gone to McPherson and said, hey,
Speaker 1: Bob is a fan of Connor's work. He would love
Speaker 1: for him to take his music and incorporated in a
Speaker 1: new piece. Connor had never done a musical piece before.
Speaker 1: So he's like, I'm not sure this is for me.
Speaker 1: They gave him carte blanche. They let him do whatever
Speaker 1: the hell he wanted to do. They sent him everything
Speaker 1: Bob had ever done, and I mean analog, the stuff
Speaker 1: that you can't get digitally. They shipped it all over.
Speaker 1: There was Dylan around, not at all, not a bad thing,
Speaker 1: you know, it was you know, the first time he
Speaker 1: ever saw it was at the public He came and
Speaker 1: he saw it at the Public theater um, and you know,
Speaker 1: I mean, he had people all around him, and they
Speaker 1: brought him in a little late so that everyone wouldn't
Speaker 1: be looking over their shoulder to look at Bob Dylan
Speaker 1: watching a show. And and he was in tears at
Speaker 1: the end of the night. He was just in tears
Speaker 1: at the end of the night. But let me ask
Speaker 1: you this, then, that life of the whole day goes by,
Speaker 1: and then at six o'clock you got to go to work.
Speaker 1: Is there a routine? Because I'm fascinated by this, Is
Speaker 1: there a routine for me? I got there early, I
Speaker 1: got there at six, and I had to let the
Speaker 1: day ooze out of me and stop thinking about what
Speaker 1: everyone's on my mind. So I could really focus because
Speaker 1: I couldn't wing it. I wasn't Peter Firth who could
Speaker 1: go out there and just dazzle people with his British
Speaker 1: technique and so forth. For you, what's it like for you?
Speaker 1: Is there a routine? Is it the same thing all
Speaker 1: the time? I mean what I mean in my life, Um,
Speaker 1: you've just learned through practice how to just carry things
Speaker 1: with you and have them. It's easy for you to
Speaker 1: access what you need to access. The emotions are there
Speaker 1: all the time. I'm a complicated person, so plain complicated
Speaker 1: people is not terribly difficult, because if you're being honest
Speaker 1: with yourself, it's available to you whenever you want it.
Speaker 1: It should be controlled, and it should be in trust
Speaker 1: with the other actors that you're on the stage with.
Speaker 1: I still don't know how it's happened or why it
Speaker 1: keeps happening the way it does. What I do know
Speaker 1: is why I walk out on a stage. It's about connection,
Speaker 1: and it's about communication and it's about dialogue. I am
Speaker 1: an introvert by nature. I am not fueled by applause.
Speaker 1: I am not fueled by people telling me I'm good.
Speaker 1: I'm not good with compliments. I prefer not to get them.
Speaker 1: It's about the audience. What are we trying to say?
Speaker 1: Why are people spending this much money to come and
Speaker 1: hear me? You can sit at home and watch Netflix.
Speaker 1: The less that I put the focus on myself, the
Speaker 1: more I find there's no problem giving it to them.
Speaker 1: One of the things I saw you do because I'm
Speaker 1: a huge Sun Time fan. Of course, I'm talking about Assassins,
Speaker 1: and I love Victor Garber and uh they had that
Speaker 1: original production. I just love that show. And then you
Speaker 1: guys come along and do this revival. Was a great show.
Speaker 1: It was a great show, Jim and Nannie Servius and
Speaker 1: I thought you were phenomenal. You're phenomenal. And was he
Speaker 1: around much when you were doing it? Stevia, He was around,
Speaker 1: And I'm told that's you know, it's a little bit
Speaker 1: intimidating to be doing revivals of his beloved material, I think,
Speaker 1: especially when they had a complicated history like Assassins. Yeah,
Speaker 1: but I mean, like, I think that that's a show
Speaker 1: that he held really dear to his heart and it
Speaker 1: never really got the shot that he had hoping. I
Speaker 1: think of all of his shows, that maybe the show
Speaker 1: he's most proud of I don't want to speak for him,
Speaker 1: but I know the gun Song is something that is
Speaker 1: really special to him for what it stands for. So
Speaker 1: doing I've never experienced what I experienced on our first
Speaker 1: preview of Assassins on the theater before or after, I
Speaker 1: can with all of us, all of them, but mean
Speaker 1: to do that show which was not political and incredibly
Speaker 1: political at the same time, and it speaks to who
Speaker 1: we are, and it speaks to our dissonance, and it
Speaker 1: speaks to the disenfranchise, but it speaks to identity. And
Speaker 1: that character, the proprietor that I played, did not exist
Speaker 1: like that originally. So I went to lunch with Joe Mantello,
Speaker 1: the director, and he pitched me the idea of what
Speaker 1: he was thinking he wanted to do with the role.
Speaker 1: And I was like, how did John Wideman and Steve
Speaker 1: Sondheim feel about that? And He's like, we'll find out.
Speaker 1: So it was this grand experiment in the middle of
Speaker 1: this revival, and every time someone had wanted to do
Speaker 1: a production of Assassins that had always got postponed because
Speaker 1: of this or a war or nine eleven because it's
Speaker 1: a very touchy subject, right, And I'm the one that
Speaker 1: opens my mouth at the beginning of the show. And
Speaker 1: to walk out on that first preview and we're on
Speaker 1: Broadway and the shoe hasn't fallen. We're actually gifted for
Speaker 1: at fifty four, it's two thousand or we're into the
Speaker 1: reelection of George W. Bush. People are agitated and angry,
Speaker 1: and you know, you walk out on that heypal feinland Blue,
Speaker 1: don't know what to do. I mean, you come here
Speaker 1: and kill a president. Those are the first lines out
Speaker 1: of the gate Man. And to do that on Broadway,
Speaker 1: not apologizing for it, and to feel other people's agitation,
Speaker 1: I've never experienced anything like that again. I mean, you
Speaker 1: could cut the tension like with a knife. It was
Speaker 1: so amazing. And when we did talk back to the
Speaker 1: audience wouldn't leave, you know how you usually do like
Speaker 1: talk backs and you'll have like maybe no one left.
Speaker 1: They were all sitting out there and they were agitated
Speaker 1: and angry, and literally it was like the talk back
Speaker 1: wouldn't even be about us talking to the audience. It
Speaker 1: would be them yelling at each other because of what
Speaker 1: they had just experienced. You, Lincoln, you write is Wrea
Speaker 1: political science? I went for political science when I switched listen,
Speaker 1: I know you have a political mind, you know, and
Speaker 1: and I've always had a political mind. And the reason
Speaker 1: that I chose theater over political science ultimately was I
Speaker 1: remember when my first day in political theory, it was
Speaker 1: my favorite class. I walked into the room and written
Speaker 1: up on the board was all politics are based in failure.
Speaker 1: How long will this program last until it breaks down
Speaker 1: or shuts down? How long until we have to amend
Speaker 1: that program? How long until we have to develop another
Speaker 1: one to pick up after? And I just thought, I
Speaker 1: don't know that I want to base my life on
Speaker 1: the idea of failure. And I took theater courses just
Speaker 1: to lighten the load, right, And I thought, oh, well
Speaker 1: that'll be good. If I want to go into politics,
Speaker 1: then getting out in front of people and having practice
Speaker 1: in that would be good. But I just also felt
Speaker 1: like I could focus on telling the truth more than
Speaker 1: I could focus on the idea of failure. Like you know,
Speaker 1: that was also the period of time when um lobbying
Speaker 1: was becoming a thing, like my father was a lot
Speaker 1: obvious now when you know when you moved you went
Speaker 1: from Hackensack to Plantation, Florida, that's you moved and your
Speaker 1: dad to do that because of work, and so you
Speaker 1: grew up your whole life down there. Yeah, I'm from
Speaker 1: I mean, I'm a Florida boy, you know. I mean,
Speaker 1: to this day, I still use the word dude constantly. Um.
Speaker 1: You know, it was still pretty rustic, and I loved it.
Speaker 1: I loved growing up there. You know, we grew up
Speaker 1: across the street from cow pastors. It was mellow. How
Speaker 1: many kids in your older brother, two younger sisters and
Speaker 1: anybody in the business. No, my brother he's the associate
Speaker 1: dean now at Villanova's School of Business, and my sister's
Speaker 1: ones in wellness, and the other manages the histology lab.
Speaker 1: Now I'm saying this with all due uh regard for you,
Speaker 1: and I just find this not funny, but it's find interesting.
Speaker 1: I mean, you're a big, powerful guy. When I think
Speaker 1: of Mark Kudish, I think of a guy who's like
Speaker 1: a big, tough guy. You'll play tough guy roles. But
Speaker 1: you didn't play football in high school. What did you
Speaker 1: do in high school? Um? I was president of the
Speaker 1: Spanish club and I was a male cheerleader. No, no,
Speaker 1: I'm not kidding. No, I know we are this because
Speaker 1: you literally, I mean I only have stupid things there.
Speaker 1: You did because you want to get laid You wanted
Speaker 1: to guy, Are you kidding? No, no, no, no, shame
Speaker 1: in that. No, no, no no, no, young guy. I was
Speaker 1: in the Gift of program. My brother was popular. I
Speaker 1: was not, man, I was the black sheep in my family.
Speaker 1: And don't tell you were a nerd. I was huge.
Speaker 1: I was a dungeon master back in the days of
Speaker 1: analog dungeons and dragons. Can you even believe that it's
Speaker 1: like cool now to do that? There are literal like
Speaker 1: stores and cafes dedicated to dungeons and dragons, and like,
Speaker 1: when I was growing up, that was like the most
Speaker 1: shameful thing you could do. Um. I know, I was
Speaker 1: a huge nerd, man, I mean I wanted to be
Speaker 1: Carl Sagan and I was in a class with everyone
Speaker 1: else that loved those things, and um, yeah, I was
Speaker 1: not popular. But I can't believe you, because you're so
Speaker 1: fucking talented you get on State when you did Assassin.
Speaker 1: I looked at my friend and I go, you see that.
Speaker 1: I go, That's what I want to do, That's what
Speaker 1: I wish I could do. I go look at this guy.
Speaker 1: He's like fucking Paul Bunyan and he sings like Pavati.
Speaker 1: He's like this giant figure of masculinity. My god, he's singing.
Speaker 1: I go, that's the funk what I want to do.
Speaker 1: But anyway, now that you've done that, did you ever
Speaker 1: live in l A. Didn't you ever want to say, Okay,
Speaker 1: now I want to go do movies and TV and
Speaker 1: that means going out there. No. I mean I had
Speaker 1: my moment when I really could have gone out there,
Speaker 1: and I didn't because I because I wanted to do
Speaker 1: the theater. And the industry has changed in a really
Speaker 1: positive way because the kind of things that are being
Speaker 1: done on television now gives freedom to creative artists to
Speaker 1: really commit to whatever story they actually want to tell.
Speaker 1: And because of that, I find that film and television
Speaker 1: has gotten more theatrical over the years, and because of that,
Speaker 1: there's more of it here. So as a younger actor,
Speaker 1: it was really important to me to be a part
Speaker 1: of the theater. And then as I got older and
Speaker 1: I realized that I was getting tired for me shows
Speaker 1: a week, and television and film was changing in a
Speaker 1: way that I actually felt like I could be a
Speaker 1: part of it that there was something there for me.
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, I wasn't around when Scorsese was
Speaker 1: filming in New York. Those are the things that I
Speaker 1: related to in terms of being an actor, and now
Speaker 1: there's a plethora of stuff where I feel I connect
Speaker 1: to it. In New York City. Can you go shoot Billions?
Speaker 1: Scream at all those knuckle heads out? But I get
Speaker 1: to be here, man. Yeah, And when you do a
Speaker 1: show like that, how does that come to be? Billions
Speaker 1: has become kind of like uh, Law and Order, where
Speaker 1: eventually everyone in Manhattan's gonna be on Billions. It has
Speaker 1: the best recurring cast, I think, on the history of television,
Speaker 1: because like every actor that you know, particularly in New
Speaker 1: York City, at some point walks across the screen. But
Speaker 1: I think another part of it, particularly with that show,
Speaker 1: is you know you have Brian and you have David,
Speaker 1: and you have incredible writing. Brian and David are the creators.
Speaker 1: They are the name is Brian Coppman David Levine, and
Speaker 1: they are amazing at what they do, and they create
Speaker 1: an incredible atmosphere on a set, which, as you know,
Speaker 1: is something I think that holds enormous value. Described that
Speaker 1: the atmosphere is what. It's really familial, it's really welcoming.
Speaker 1: Everybody's jazz to be there. When you meet the crew
Speaker 1: and the crew is excited about coming to work, then
Speaker 1: you know you're on something that has energy to it.
Speaker 1: It's exciting, it's fun. You know. The writing is good,
Speaker 1: it's crisp, it's smart, it's fast. There's no apology for
Speaker 1: the characters behaving badly. Every storyline, every individual show is
Speaker 1: so smart and fast, like it's really unexpected. Every time
Speaker 1: I would read a script, which is rare on other shows,
Speaker 1: you'd have what kind of experience? Oh crap, absolute crap,
Speaker 1: and you know, but described the situation honestly. I there
Speaker 1: was a show. It was, It was, it was quite
Speaker 1: a few years ago now, and I literally walked on set.
Speaker 1: Nobody knew the lines. None of the regulars knew their lines,
Speaker 1: no one knew what both completely unprofessional and I had
Speaker 1: a heart out. And I finally had to go to
Speaker 1: the director and say, I have a heart out. In
Speaker 1: fifteen minutes and there are three scenes left to shoot,
Speaker 1: and he looked at me and he said, what are
Speaker 1: you talking about? And he drew me over to one
Speaker 1: of the you know a d s and he just
Speaker 1: was like, why didn't you guys tell me this sooner? Well,
Speaker 1: we didn't want to, you know, and then he just
Speaker 1: don't want to upset you with the facts. So then
Speaker 1: he pulled me into a corner and he said, give
Speaker 1: me a second. And then he said, okay, if we
Speaker 1: set up the camera shots and I do the dialogue
Speaker 1: and we'll just get your p o V. Are you
Speaker 1: willing to do that? And I said, yeah, whatever it takes.
Speaker 1: So they set up three four different cameras, four different angles.
Speaker 1: He read the lines with me, and I knocked out
Speaker 1: three scenes in fifteen minutes. I ship you note with
Speaker 1: the entire cast watching as we did it, finished it
Speaker 1: and they all applauded, Oh my god, that was amazing.
Speaker 1: And I'm thinking, you should not be saying that to
Speaker 1: me right now. You shouldn't be happy while I'm doing
Speaker 1: this exactly. I just was like, so, you know, there's
Speaker 1: a wide variety, and Billions is on the upper echelon
Speaker 1: of what I think a quality piece of television is,
Speaker 1: or or or any filming is smart people writing really
Speaker 1: smart stories and dialogue with incredible actors that you want
Speaker 1: to be in it with. So it's always fun, you know,
Speaker 1: And any time I walk on there, the writing is
Speaker 1: through the roof and it's absolutely ridiculous. And the character
Speaker 1: is I mean, he's insane. It's fun to be that
Speaker 1: out there. Who is your character on Billions? Dr Guess
Speaker 1: he's a he's a performance coach. He's just insane. Who
Speaker 1: who are you coaching? Any of the traders, like anyone
Speaker 1: who's behind, who's not picking up their limit. I'm just
Speaker 1: there too, literally scream at them. I mean so intense,
Speaker 1: which I love because it's just the id running wild.
Speaker 1: You know. I did Glen Gary Glenn Ross, and we
Speaker 1: shot the scene for three days and it was so tough, like, oh,
Speaker 1: let me wipe my feet on your chim I hated it.
Speaker 1: But that's the thing, isn't it. You're there to do
Speaker 1: it and you can't apologize for it. You know. I've
Speaker 1: made a career of playing questionablement making questionable decisions. What
Speaker 1: makes it interesting is you see a guy like that
Speaker 1: and you want to hate a guy like that, but
Speaker 1: you can't help but hearing the truth, even through the
Speaker 1: hardness of it. It's sticking to the intention of the character.
Speaker 1: That is exciting about doing it. While you wait to
Speaker 1: see Marc Kudish on Broadway, you can watch him on
Speaker 1: Showtime in Billions. I'm Alec Baldwin and this is here's
Speaker 1: the thing