1 00:00:12,920 --> 00:00:15,239 Speaker 1: Where were you when you found out that they had 2 00:00:15,560 --> 00:00:16,360 Speaker 1: made an arrest. 3 00:00:16,960 --> 00:00:19,960 Speaker 2: I was in the house here, actually the same house 4 00:00:20,040 --> 00:00:23,759 Speaker 2: that you know carl was last seen in, because I 5 00:00:23,760 --> 00:00:26,320 Speaker 2: bought our house, my wife and I did, because we 6 00:00:26,360 --> 00:00:28,160 Speaker 2: wanted to make sure a Walker was here in case 7 00:00:28,200 --> 00:00:31,520 Speaker 2: somebody had an end of life's story to tell confession. 8 00:00:41,240 --> 00:00:43,919 Speaker 2: It was kind of cod and wet outside, and I 9 00:00:43,960 --> 00:00:47,360 Speaker 2: got a call from Jeff Bennet and said we've got him. 10 00:00:48,479 --> 00:00:54,960 Speaker 2: He's confessed. I cried, mm hmmm, I got teary eyed. 11 00:00:57,240 --> 00:01:03,480 Speaker 2: You know, it's like finally right. 12 00:01:00,480 --> 00:01:08,520 Speaker 3: A forty six years after Carla Walker was murdered after 13 00:01:08,520 --> 00:01:12,160 Speaker 3: her high school Valentine's Day dance, police in Fort Worth, 14 00:01:12,200 --> 00:01:17,160 Speaker 3: Texas make an arrest. For decades, Carla's brother Jim, had 15 00:01:17,200 --> 00:01:21,000 Speaker 3: desperately hoped for an answer, encouraging law enforcement to keep 16 00:01:21,000 --> 00:01:21,840 Speaker 3: the case alive. 17 00:01:23,800 --> 00:01:26,360 Speaker 2: The only thing I would ever accept is something that 18 00:01:26,400 --> 00:01:29,319 Speaker 2: was introduced through a witness stand to twelve jurors in 19 00:01:29,319 --> 00:01:32,640 Speaker 2: a court of law, not just to hang this on somebody, 20 00:01:32,840 --> 00:01:34,759 Speaker 2: right and too many times as has happened, we wanted 21 00:01:34,760 --> 00:01:35,560 Speaker 2: a right person. 22 00:01:36,440 --> 00:01:40,200 Speaker 3: I want the truth, the truth of what happened to 23 00:01:40,240 --> 00:01:43,800 Speaker 3: seventeen year old Carla Walker had been hiding in plain sight? 24 00:01:44,440 --> 00:01:47,360 Speaker 3: Was it someone who knew Carla or a complete stranger? 25 00:01:49,560 --> 00:01:52,720 Speaker 3: At one point police even jailed someone for the crime, 26 00:01:54,480 --> 00:02:00,800 Speaker 3: but the case always went cold. Now detectives had their 27 00:02:00,800 --> 00:02:06,680 Speaker 3: first big break in years. This is America's crime Lab. 28 00:02:07,000 --> 00:02:10,320 Speaker 3: I'm Alan Lance Lesser. This is the final chapter of 29 00:02:10,360 --> 00:02:13,520 Speaker 3: the Carla Walker case. If you missed the previous episodes, 30 00:02:13,639 --> 00:02:18,480 Speaker 3: please go back and listen. Producer Katherine Finalosa is here 31 00:02:18,480 --> 00:02:23,040 Speaker 3: with me. Hey, Katherine, Hi, Ayleen. So Catherine, where we 32 00:02:23,040 --> 00:02:26,280 Speaker 3: were at? There's new DNA testing of the dress Carlo 33 00:02:26,480 --> 00:02:29,400 Speaker 3: was wearing the night she was attacked, and it's pointing 34 00:02:29,639 --> 00:02:31,720 Speaker 3: to a local father of two. 35 00:02:32,400 --> 00:02:35,280 Speaker 1: Yeah, his name is Glenn McCurley junior. 36 00:02:35,480 --> 00:02:38,840 Speaker 3: Right, And Detective Jeff Bennett and his partner go to 37 00:02:38,919 --> 00:02:42,880 Speaker 3: question Glenn because they want a DNA swab of his mouth. 38 00:02:43,040 --> 00:02:47,240 Speaker 1: Exactly, so they need to confirm his identity and compare 39 00:02:47,240 --> 00:02:49,840 Speaker 1: it to the DNA that was found at the crime scene. 40 00:02:50,000 --> 00:02:54,360 Speaker 1: And initially Glenn's like, I'm not into giving over my DNA, 41 00:02:55,200 --> 00:02:57,800 Speaker 1: but he he does. He gives him a sample. 42 00:02:58,800 --> 00:02:59,760 Speaker 3: And what did it show? 43 00:03:00,280 --> 00:03:05,680 Speaker 1: Well, it shows that Glenn mccurley's DNA matches the DNA 44 00:03:05,760 --> 00:03:08,760 Speaker 1: that was found on Carla's dress back in nineteen seventy four. 45 00:03:09,360 --> 00:03:13,280 Speaker 3: Oh my god, that's a big deal because that suggests, 46 00:03:13,960 --> 00:03:17,200 Speaker 3: I mean, that points to him to potentially being the killer. 47 00:03:17,440 --> 00:03:21,519 Speaker 3: If his semen as on her dress mixed with Carla's DNA. 48 00:03:21,880 --> 00:03:26,000 Speaker 1: That pretty much confirms that Glenn was likely the person 49 00:03:26,080 --> 00:03:30,280 Speaker 1: who raped Carla. But it doesn't mean that he's the 50 00:03:30,280 --> 00:03:34,480 Speaker 1: person who killed her. M If you're going to believe Rodney, 51 00:03:34,960 --> 00:03:38,880 Speaker 1: Carla's boyfriend at the time, he wasn't sure if there 52 00:03:38,960 --> 00:03:41,960 Speaker 1: was one guy who pulled Carla out of the car 53 00:03:42,160 --> 00:03:42,760 Speaker 1: or two. 54 00:03:43,440 --> 00:03:47,240 Speaker 3: Right, And I remember that Paul Holds, the investigator, said 55 00:03:47,360 --> 00:03:50,360 Speaker 3: Rodney gave conflicting statements about what happened that night. 56 00:03:50,920 --> 00:03:53,720 Speaker 1: Yeah, and Glenn's in trouble here because his alibi doesn't 57 00:03:53,760 --> 00:03:56,640 Speaker 1: shake out right, because his wife, Judy was out of town, 58 00:03:57,040 --> 00:03:59,320 Speaker 1: so there's no way he could have been driving her around. 59 00:04:00,200 --> 00:04:02,040 Speaker 1: But I mean, does that make him a killer? 60 00:04:02,720 --> 00:04:05,280 Speaker 3: That alone does not make him a killer. So what 61 00:04:05,400 --> 00:04:06,120 Speaker 3: happens now? 62 00:04:06,800 --> 00:04:09,600 Speaker 1: So at this point, the police they have enough evidence 63 00:04:09,600 --> 00:04:10,640 Speaker 1: to arrest him. 64 00:04:10,880 --> 00:04:15,040 Speaker 4: Which came to quite a shock to his wife. Unfortunately, 65 00:04:15,080 --> 00:04:18,160 Speaker 4: she was present when he was being arrested and he 66 00:04:18,320 --> 00:04:21,440 Speaker 4: was brought to us for us to interview him. 67 00:04:22,640 --> 00:04:27,479 Speaker 1: And there is video that I've watched of the interrogation 68 00:04:28,360 --> 00:04:33,000 Speaker 1: in the police department, and I have to say, Allen, 69 00:04:33,080 --> 00:04:41,520 Speaker 1: it is so wild. He's in his late seventies at 70 00:04:41,520 --> 00:04:46,560 Speaker 1: this point. He is a very large man. He's tall, 71 00:04:47,200 --> 00:04:51,679 Speaker 1: broad shoulders. This is a guy who looks like he's 72 00:04:51,720 --> 00:04:54,640 Speaker 1: been working with his hands his whole life. And watching 73 00:04:54,680 --> 00:04:58,279 Speaker 1: the video of him in this small interrogation room with 74 00:04:58,400 --> 00:05:02,200 Speaker 1: Jeff Bennett and his partner, and maybe I've seen too 75 00:05:02,240 --> 00:05:08,240 Speaker 1: many TV crime shows where there's good cop, bad cop, 76 00:05:08,480 --> 00:05:11,520 Speaker 1: and you know there's some cop leaning over the table 77 00:05:11,800 --> 00:05:15,440 Speaker 1: with his finger in the face of the suspect. This 78 00:05:15,640 --> 00:05:22,600 Speaker 1: was not that. They're actually sitting very close to Glenn, 79 00:05:23,040 --> 00:05:25,520 Speaker 1: to the point of where like their knees are almost touching. 80 00:05:26,520 --> 00:05:26,960 Speaker 3: Wow. 81 00:05:27,360 --> 00:05:31,240 Speaker 1: They're very gently asking him questions. Do you remember Carla? 82 00:05:31,279 --> 00:05:34,599 Speaker 1: He starts out by saying, I don't know Carla. I've 83 00:05:34,640 --> 00:05:35,480 Speaker 1: never seen her. 84 00:05:37,480 --> 00:05:41,080 Speaker 4: Showed her a picture of Carla to Glenn said he 85 00:05:41,120 --> 00:05:42,360 Speaker 4: didn't recognize her. 86 00:05:45,520 --> 00:05:49,479 Speaker 1: After some more questioning, he starts to say, you know, 87 00:05:51,720 --> 00:05:54,680 Speaker 1: I did go to the Bowling Alley parking lot that 88 00:05:54,800 --> 00:05:59,400 Speaker 1: night and I had been out having a few drinks. 89 00:06:01,600 --> 00:06:07,040 Speaker 1: And now remember the night that it happened. Rodney and 90 00:06:07,120 --> 00:06:10,440 Speaker 1: Carla gone to the dance, cruised around town with some friends. 91 00:06:11,880 --> 00:06:14,400 Speaker 1: They dropped the friends off. They went to the Bowling 92 00:06:14,400 --> 00:06:18,760 Speaker 1: Alley so that Carla could use the bathroom. And the 93 00:06:18,800 --> 00:06:24,719 Speaker 1: Bowling Alley parking lot is pretty empty. It is very dark. 94 00:06:25,160 --> 00:06:28,479 Speaker 1: Glenn says, yep, I do actually remember pulling into the 95 00:06:28,600 --> 00:06:33,200 Speaker 1: parking lot and I parked my car and I heard 96 00:06:33,440 --> 00:06:39,479 Speaker 1: a woman screaming for help, and I realized she was 97 00:06:39,480 --> 00:06:42,800 Speaker 1: being attacked by this guy in a car next to me, 98 00:06:43,560 --> 00:06:48,840 Speaker 1: and so yes, I did open the door and I 99 00:06:48,880 --> 00:06:56,400 Speaker 1: rescued her. Wait what and I pulled her out of 100 00:06:56,440 --> 00:07:01,960 Speaker 1: the car and saved her from an attack from this guy. 101 00:07:01,160 --> 00:07:03,520 Speaker 3: And left my semen on her address. 102 00:07:03,640 --> 00:07:07,040 Speaker 1: What he knows that he's being arrested because there was 103 00:07:07,839 --> 00:07:12,800 Speaker 1: his DNA on Carla's dress, and so Detective Bennett asked 104 00:07:12,880 --> 00:07:16,960 Speaker 1: him that, well, how did your semen get onto her clothing? 105 00:07:17,880 --> 00:07:23,320 Speaker 1: And Glenn says, oh, well, I was going to give 106 00:07:23,320 --> 00:07:25,720 Speaker 1: her a ride home and save her from this guy 107 00:07:25,800 --> 00:07:30,360 Speaker 1: who was attacking her, and she was so thankful, and 108 00:07:30,640 --> 00:07:32,760 Speaker 1: you know, frankly, we hit it off and we had 109 00:07:32,800 --> 00:07:38,440 Speaker 1: sex and it was totally consensual and I did not 110 00:07:38,600 --> 00:07:42,240 Speaker 1: attack her. She was just so thankful that I had 111 00:07:42,280 --> 00:07:42,760 Speaker 1: saved her. 112 00:07:43,920 --> 00:07:46,640 Speaker 3: Also, is he saying then that it was Rodney attacking 113 00:07:46,680 --> 00:07:48,000 Speaker 3: her or somebody else came. 114 00:07:48,400 --> 00:07:50,760 Speaker 1: He was saying that Rodney was the one attacking her 115 00:07:50,760 --> 00:07:54,240 Speaker 1: in the car, which is not totally far fetched. Rodney 116 00:07:54,280 --> 00:07:56,280 Speaker 1: was on the suspect list. There were lots of people 117 00:07:56,280 --> 00:07:59,640 Speaker 1: who thought Rodney was the one who killed Carla. 118 00:08:00,480 --> 00:08:05,440 Speaker 3: Okay, Carla was being attacked and then you had some 119 00:08:05,600 --> 00:08:09,800 Speaker 3: kind of sexual interaction with her, and then she was 120 00:08:09,840 --> 00:08:13,640 Speaker 3: found murdered. So she was attacked by two separate people 121 00:08:14,600 --> 00:08:21,000 Speaker 3: that night or two separate times. That just makes no sense. 122 00:08:21,720 --> 00:08:25,400 Speaker 1: So he initially doesn't have an answer as to what 123 00:08:25,640 --> 00:08:29,600 Speaker 1: happened to Carla after they had sex. So Jeff and 124 00:08:29,640 --> 00:08:34,400 Speaker 1: his partner keep questioning Glenn. In the video of their interrogation, 125 00:08:35,600 --> 00:08:39,080 Speaker 1: he's at this point sort of slumped over and he 126 00:08:39,160 --> 00:08:39,959 Speaker 1: starts crying. 127 00:08:41,440 --> 00:08:46,880 Speaker 4: He eventually did admit to killing Carla and that he 128 00:08:46,920 --> 00:08:52,199 Speaker 4: had choked her, confess to that. It took him quite 129 00:08:52,200 --> 00:08:54,360 Speaker 4: a while to confess to raping her. 130 00:08:55,400 --> 00:08:56,240 Speaker 3: He admits it. 131 00:08:56,640 --> 00:08:57,400 Speaker 1: He admits it. 132 00:08:58,320 --> 00:09:01,079 Speaker 3: Why, I mean, how did they get him to do that? 133 00:09:01,679 --> 00:09:01,760 Speaker 5: Was? 134 00:09:01,760 --> 00:09:06,040 Speaker 3: He just resigned, like what? How did that happen? 135 00:09:06,720 --> 00:09:10,520 Speaker 1: He looks broken down and it looks like he's just 136 00:09:10,679 --> 00:09:16,600 Speaker 1: kind of run out of explanations and he starts to cry. 137 00:09:17,440 --> 00:09:21,800 Speaker 1: And at this point in the video, you see Jeff 138 00:09:21,800 --> 00:09:27,760 Speaker 1: Bennett and his partner Leah slide their chairs even closer 139 00:09:27,840 --> 00:09:35,199 Speaker 1: to Glenn, and Leah has her hand on Glenn's arm. 140 00:09:35,600 --> 00:09:41,000 Speaker 1: Jeff sort of taps Glenn's knee, oh my gosh, and 141 00:09:41,679 --> 00:09:46,520 Speaker 1: they're almost comforting him. Jeff is very careful not to 142 00:09:47,440 --> 00:09:53,840 Speaker 1: prompt Glenn with any details of where Carla was found. 143 00:09:54,559 --> 00:09:55,560 Speaker 3: They just keep. 144 00:09:55,480 --> 00:10:01,360 Speaker 1: Very gently asking him more questions. And Jeff asks him 145 00:10:01,559 --> 00:10:06,600 Speaker 1: about the location where Carlo's body was found that evening, which, 146 00:10:07,040 --> 00:10:11,280 Speaker 1: if you remember, she was found on the outskirts of 147 00:10:11,400 --> 00:10:18,360 Speaker 1: Fort Worth, down a fairly rural road, and her body 148 00:10:18,559 --> 00:10:25,640 Speaker 1: was then placed half hidden inside a cattle culvert. 149 00:10:25,920 --> 00:10:29,520 Speaker 4: I said, mister McCurley, I said, why did you select 150 00:10:29,559 --> 00:10:33,480 Speaker 4: the spot you did to place Carlo's body? Because I 151 00:10:33,559 --> 00:10:35,240 Speaker 4: knew that it took a lot of work to get 152 00:10:35,280 --> 00:10:38,120 Speaker 4: her down into that calvert and over that barbed wire, 153 00:10:38,240 --> 00:10:41,840 Speaker 4: and there's no street lights out there. It's completely dark. 154 00:10:41,920 --> 00:10:44,920 Speaker 4: It's file lake. I didn't want to describe the area 155 00:10:45,000 --> 00:10:47,000 Speaker 4: for him, but I wanted him to tell me. So, 156 00:10:47,000 --> 00:10:49,640 Speaker 4: why did you select the spot you did? And he goes, well, 157 00:10:50,120 --> 00:10:53,559 Speaker 4: you drive down this road, Granbury Road, and you go 158 00:10:53,640 --> 00:10:57,679 Speaker 4: off to the right and there's this building there and 159 00:10:57,720 --> 00:11:01,800 Speaker 4: I placed it up against this building in this bush. 160 00:11:02,160 --> 00:11:06,800 Speaker 4: I said, no, mister McCurley, that's not where Carla's body 161 00:11:06,920 --> 00:11:09,600 Speaker 4: was placed. Why did you select the spot you did 162 00:11:09,960 --> 00:11:17,600 Speaker 4: to place Carla's body? And this is another goosebump moment. 163 00:11:19,400 --> 00:11:21,800 Speaker 4: I said, mister McCurley, are you sure you're not getting 164 00:11:21,840 --> 00:11:25,280 Speaker 4: this confused with somebody else you've done this too. And 165 00:11:25,360 --> 00:11:28,840 Speaker 4: he pauses and he looks up and he goes, I 166 00:11:28,880 --> 00:11:37,920 Speaker 4: don't think so. Which I knew at that moment that 167 00:11:38,000 --> 00:11:42,040 Speaker 4: this was not the only person that Glenn McCurley has murdered. 168 00:11:44,320 --> 00:11:48,400 Speaker 1: You might remember that the year before Carlo's murder, another 169 00:11:48,520 --> 00:11:49,800 Speaker 1: young woman was attacked. 170 00:11:50,559 --> 00:11:55,640 Speaker 4: There was a victim, Becky Martin. Becky was abducted from 171 00:11:55,640 --> 00:12:00,440 Speaker 4: her vehicle as she was leaving school getting into her car. 172 00:12:01,240 --> 00:12:07,360 Speaker 4: She was murdered in February and she was also found 173 00:12:07,400 --> 00:12:10,520 Speaker 4: in a calvert almost identical to. 174 00:12:11,480 --> 00:12:23,120 Speaker 1: Carla's detective Jeff Bennett says there were a few other 175 00:12:23,240 --> 00:12:26,840 Speaker 1: cases of young women who were also abducted from their 176 00:12:26,880 --> 00:12:30,679 Speaker 1: cars and their bodies were dumped in rural areas outside 177 00:12:30,720 --> 00:12:31,360 Speaker 1: of Fort Worth. 178 00:12:32,080 --> 00:12:35,640 Speaker 4: Two of those their purses were found within a mile 179 00:12:35,679 --> 00:12:36,720 Speaker 4: of mccurley's home. 180 00:12:37,760 --> 00:12:38,720 Speaker 3: Oh my god. 181 00:12:39,480 --> 00:12:42,200 Speaker 1: A couple of them had been very similar to Carla, 182 00:12:42,280 --> 00:12:47,840 Speaker 1: strangled with their bras. Another thing that struck Jeff Bennett 183 00:12:48,040 --> 00:12:50,440 Speaker 1: was now we know Carla was wearing a powdered blue 184 00:12:50,520 --> 00:12:54,800 Speaker 1: dress the night she was murdered, but when police were 185 00:12:54,920 --> 00:13:00,800 Speaker 1: questioning Glenn, he said, nah, uh, she was wearing pedal 186 00:13:00,840 --> 00:13:02,720 Speaker 1: pushers and saddle shoes. 187 00:13:03,440 --> 00:13:03,680 Speaker 3: What. 188 00:13:04,440 --> 00:13:07,640 Speaker 1: All of this led detectives to feel that Carla was 189 00:13:07,720 --> 00:13:09,679 Speaker 1: not Glenn's only victim. 190 00:13:10,160 --> 00:13:13,520 Speaker 4: We have a strong suspicion that Glenn's responsible for not 191 00:13:13,679 --> 00:13:16,400 Speaker 4: just several murders in our city, but he was also 192 00:13:16,440 --> 00:13:19,880 Speaker 4: a truck driver. He had a route from Fort Worth 193 00:13:20,000 --> 00:13:23,400 Speaker 4: out to California and back, so we have a strong 194 00:13:23,480 --> 00:13:27,280 Speaker 4: feeling that he could be responsible for other murders. 195 00:13:28,080 --> 00:13:30,560 Speaker 1: Now, the DNA match off of Carla's dress is what's 196 00:13:30,600 --> 00:13:34,360 Speaker 1: giving detectives confidence that Glenn's confession is real. 197 00:13:35,400 --> 00:13:40,560 Speaker 3: So they've uncovered a serial killer. They've literally stumbled across 198 00:13:40,600 --> 00:13:47,360 Speaker 3: this guy who it sounds like, committed a variety of murders. 199 00:13:47,960 --> 00:13:50,360 Speaker 3: Oh my god, I mean, what did Jeff Bennett think 200 00:13:50,400 --> 00:13:51,080 Speaker 3: in that moment? 201 00:13:57,840 --> 00:14:02,400 Speaker 4: You don't start off abducting a young lady out of 202 00:14:02,400 --> 00:14:06,559 Speaker 4: her car with her boyfriend being willing to assault the boyfriend. 203 00:14:07,200 --> 00:14:11,320 Speaker 4: You've built up to this, and you've got a high 204 00:14:11,360 --> 00:14:16,080 Speaker 4: level of confidence to commit this kind of crime. And 205 00:14:16,520 --> 00:14:21,440 Speaker 4: that was further evidence for me that when he responded 206 00:14:21,480 --> 00:14:25,960 Speaker 4: with I don't think so that this was not his 207 00:14:26,080 --> 00:14:27,360 Speaker 4: only offense like this. 208 00:14:54,760 --> 00:14:57,640 Speaker 3: Do they ask him about his gun? They do. 209 00:14:58,960 --> 00:15:03,280 Speaker 4: I said, Glenn, I know that you had this gun. 210 00:15:04,080 --> 00:15:08,760 Speaker 4: Your gun wasn't stolen. I know you have it. And 211 00:15:08,840 --> 00:15:11,840 Speaker 4: he just dropped his head and he looked up and 212 00:15:11,880 --> 00:15:18,760 Speaker 4: he goes, I've still got it. And I said, Glenn, 213 00:15:18,760 --> 00:15:21,280 Speaker 4: where's the gun? I said, is it in your house? 214 00:15:22,480 --> 00:15:25,360 Speaker 4: And he said yes? And I said, tell me where 215 00:15:25,400 --> 00:15:25,720 Speaker 4: in your. 216 00:15:25,600 --> 00:15:26,280 Speaker 6: House it is. 217 00:15:27,080 --> 00:15:29,840 Speaker 1: And Glenn says, yeah, I added a room to my house. 218 00:15:30,200 --> 00:15:33,000 Speaker 1: And if you go to my house, go into that 219 00:15:33,120 --> 00:15:37,920 Speaker 1: room and there's a ceiling panel, and if you push 220 00:15:38,080 --> 00:15:42,040 Speaker 1: up on the ceiling panel, you'll find the gun. And 221 00:15:42,080 --> 00:15:43,640 Speaker 1: it's wrapped in a towel. 222 00:15:44,000 --> 00:15:46,600 Speaker 3: Oh my god, Jeff goes. 223 00:15:47,760 --> 00:15:50,560 Speaker 1: He finds the gun exactly where Glenn said it was. 224 00:15:51,120 --> 00:15:56,960 Speaker 3: So he'd just been hiding the gun for almost fifty 225 00:15:57,040 --> 00:16:00,480 Speaker 3: years in his house in a room that he built 226 00:16:01,360 --> 00:16:02,920 Speaker 3: with the secret little spot. 227 00:16:04,120 --> 00:16:08,960 Speaker 1: Not only that, Glenn and his wife, Judy, they had 228 00:16:08,960 --> 00:16:13,920 Speaker 1: two boys. Glenn's two sons went to the same high 229 00:16:13,920 --> 00:16:18,120 Speaker 1: school where Carla, her older sister Cindy, and her younger 230 00:16:18,160 --> 00:16:21,200 Speaker 1: brother Jim went, and they were in high school at 231 00:16:21,240 --> 00:16:25,440 Speaker 1: the same time when Carlo's brother Jim was in high school. 232 00:16:26,320 --> 00:16:31,240 Speaker 1: So pretty much every day after Carla was killed, Glenn 233 00:16:31,560 --> 00:16:36,960 Speaker 1: drove his sons to high school and drove by the 234 00:16:37,000 --> 00:16:37,760 Speaker 1: Walker house. 235 00:16:38,400 --> 00:16:48,160 Speaker 3: Oh my god. So let me get this straight. We've 236 00:16:48,200 --> 00:16:52,280 Speaker 3: got the DNA on Carla's dress that matches Glenn McCurley. 237 00:16:52,760 --> 00:16:55,280 Speaker 3: He's also confessed to the murder. 238 00:16:55,960 --> 00:16:59,840 Speaker 1: Ultimately, it needs to go to trial because unless someone 239 00:16:59,920 --> 00:17:03,880 Speaker 1: is convicted of Carlo's crime, it's still not solved. 240 00:17:04,560 --> 00:17:07,679 Speaker 3: That is so true, even if you have a confession 241 00:17:07,880 --> 00:17:10,159 Speaker 3: or you have a ton of evidence. It's also a 242 00:17:10,200 --> 00:17:14,240 Speaker 3: matter of exactly what is permissible in court, how a 243 00:17:14,320 --> 00:17:17,720 Speaker 3: jury interprets the information, The arguments the lawyers. 244 00:17:17,320 --> 00:17:21,080 Speaker 1: Make and Alan, you can't forget about Rodney, Carla's boyfriend 245 00:17:21,080 --> 00:17:23,400 Speaker 1: at the time. I mean, remember there was so much 246 00:17:23,440 --> 00:17:27,159 Speaker 1: suspicion swirling around him that he moved from Fort Worth 247 00:17:27,359 --> 00:17:31,280 Speaker 1: up to Alaska. So either you believe him and he's 248 00:17:31,359 --> 00:17:33,840 Speaker 1: also a victim in all of this, or you think 249 00:17:33,840 --> 00:17:37,640 Speaker 1: he's just telling a really great story. So it's not 250 00:17:37,840 --> 00:17:40,760 Speaker 1: just about finding out who did this to Carla, but 251 00:17:40,840 --> 00:17:42,919 Speaker 1: it could also prove someone else's innocence. 252 00:17:44,320 --> 00:17:48,439 Speaker 3: Yeah, it does feel like the implications of this trial 253 00:17:48,520 --> 00:17:52,280 Speaker 3: are huge, and that this does go beyond just finding 254 00:17:52,359 --> 00:17:55,760 Speaker 3: the truth, which is so important, but it's also it's 255 00:17:55,800 --> 00:18:02,760 Speaker 3: about everyone's perspective and perception and therefore how people continue 256 00:18:02,800 --> 00:18:06,360 Speaker 3: to live with what happened and cope exactly. 257 00:18:07,040 --> 00:18:11,359 Speaker 1: And there's another thing that is pretty groundbreaking about the 258 00:18:11,400 --> 00:18:15,159 Speaker 1: upcoming trial of Glenn mccurly. It will be the first 259 00:18:15,240 --> 00:18:20,200 Speaker 1: time that this new DNA technology that authorm has developed 260 00:18:21,200 --> 00:18:23,080 Speaker 1: will be tested in a court case. 261 00:18:24,400 --> 00:18:27,000 Speaker 3: So we don't even know for sure if this DNA 262 00:18:27,119 --> 00:18:31,200 Speaker 3: evidence will be accepted by the jury or permitted in court, 263 00:18:31,480 --> 00:18:33,560 Speaker 3: or exactly how this will all go down. 264 00:18:33,720 --> 00:18:40,560 Speaker 1: We don't, So it goes to trial and even though 265 00:18:41,160 --> 00:18:45,879 Speaker 1: Glenn mccurly confessed at the police station in front of 266 00:18:46,200 --> 00:18:50,919 Speaker 1: detective Jeff Bennett and his partner Leah to strangling and 267 00:18:51,080 --> 00:18:55,280 Speaker 1: raping Carla, he pleads not guilty. 268 00:18:56,560 --> 00:18:58,960 Speaker 3: That's surprising given the whole confession. 269 00:18:59,600 --> 00:19:02,520 Speaker 1: I know, and maybe I'm naive, but I just assumed 270 00:19:02,520 --> 00:19:05,400 Speaker 1: that it wouldn't even go to trial because he. 271 00:19:05,400 --> 00:19:08,040 Speaker 3: Confessed and they would just have some sort of deal. 272 00:19:08,480 --> 00:19:12,119 Speaker 1: Yeah, but he pleads not guilty, so he must have 273 00:19:12,240 --> 00:19:14,920 Speaker 1: maybe been thinking there was a chance he'd be acquitted. 274 00:19:15,320 --> 00:19:19,080 Speaker 3: And who knows, since this is new DNA technology, maybe 275 00:19:19,119 --> 00:19:21,960 Speaker 3: it won't be admissible, or even if it is admissible, 276 00:19:22,200 --> 00:19:23,880 Speaker 3: it's not compelling to the jury. 277 00:19:24,760 --> 00:19:27,520 Speaker 1: So maybe if you're Glenn, you're really rolling the dice right. 278 00:19:27,720 --> 00:19:32,199 Speaker 1: Because he has been living in the community, married to 279 00:19:32,240 --> 00:19:35,480 Speaker 1: the same woman for fifty plus years. A lot of 280 00:19:35,520 --> 00:19:39,439 Speaker 1: people at his church have stories about him, you know, 281 00:19:39,600 --> 00:19:43,600 Speaker 1: helping fix their car when it broke down, giving them 282 00:19:43,680 --> 00:19:47,560 Speaker 1: rights places. It's not like this is the guy that 283 00:19:47,600 --> 00:19:50,520 Speaker 1: everybody's like, Oh, we always knew something creepy, you know, 284 00:19:51,119 --> 00:19:56,320 Speaker 1: something was off with him. 285 00:19:57,600 --> 00:20:00,640 Speaker 3: I will say, though, the more I consume media about 286 00:20:00,720 --> 00:20:04,880 Speaker 3: true crime, the more it does blow my mind, how 287 00:20:04,960 --> 00:20:09,160 Speaker 3: so often it is someone that you don't suspect, or, 288 00:20:09,200 --> 00:20:11,400 Speaker 3: as they say in the office, the person you most 289 00:20:11,560 --> 00:20:16,720 Speaker 3: medium suspect. It's not necessarily the person in the room 290 00:20:17,000 --> 00:20:22,320 Speaker 3: who's behaving in a really wild way or is extremely creepy. 291 00:20:22,320 --> 00:20:25,600 Speaker 3: I mean, maybe sometimes it is, but so often it's 292 00:20:25,640 --> 00:20:31,240 Speaker 3: someone embedded in the community who is seen as dependable. 293 00:20:32,240 --> 00:20:36,760 Speaker 1: And as you can imagine, the courtroom is packed, Yeah, 294 00:20:37,080 --> 00:20:41,879 Speaker 1: absolutely packed, and Carlo's family's there, Rodney's there, her boyfriend 295 00:20:42,160 --> 00:20:47,240 Speaker 1: at the time, and the Cowtown Chicks the four women 296 00:20:47,520 --> 00:20:51,439 Speaker 1: who bonded over Carla's case and investigated it on their own, 297 00:20:52,560 --> 00:20:58,160 Speaker 1: and then Glenn mccurley's family is there. Detective Jeff Bennett testifies, 298 00:20:58,800 --> 00:21:04,200 Speaker 1: and they a lot of Glenn mccurley's taped confession from 299 00:21:04,240 --> 00:21:07,199 Speaker 1: the police station during the trial. 300 00:21:08,200 --> 00:21:11,480 Speaker 3: Interesting, So, wait, how does the gun play into all this? 301 00:21:12,000 --> 00:21:14,880 Speaker 3: Was that brought up in court, because that's also another 302 00:21:15,080 --> 00:21:17,680 Speaker 3: very compelling piece of evidence against Glenn. 303 00:21:18,080 --> 00:21:20,520 Speaker 1: Yeah, they do bring the gun out and they show 304 00:21:20,560 --> 00:21:23,480 Speaker 1: it to the jury. The next morning, everyone arrives at 305 00:21:23,520 --> 00:21:26,840 Speaker 1: the courthouse. I think it's day three of the trial, 306 00:21:27,359 --> 00:21:29,480 Speaker 1: and it's kind of off to a slow start. There's 307 00:21:29,520 --> 00:21:33,600 Speaker 1: some delay for some reason, and Kathleen Barnett, one of 308 00:21:33,640 --> 00:21:35,800 Speaker 1: the Cowtown chicks, she notices something. 309 00:21:37,000 --> 00:21:41,679 Speaker 6: I saw mccurly. He was kind of shuffling in his wheelchair, 310 00:21:41,800 --> 00:21:45,520 Speaker 6: you know, like people do, and he stopped at the 311 00:21:45,560 --> 00:21:51,800 Speaker 6: clerk's disk and he raised his hand and I was like, 312 00:21:52,119 --> 00:21:55,160 Speaker 6: oh my god, he's plaiting. He's plating us, telling everybody 313 00:21:55,200 --> 00:21:58,119 Speaker 6: around he's plaiting. They're like pleading to what. 314 00:21:58,359 --> 00:22:31,119 Speaker 3: I was like, get the order. So after all that, 315 00:22:31,720 --> 00:22:34,439 Speaker 3: Glenn decides to plead guilty. Why do you think he 316 00:22:34,480 --> 00:22:34,760 Speaker 3: did that? 317 00:22:35,560 --> 00:22:39,560 Speaker 1: I have no idea, but Detective Jeff Bennett has a theory. 318 00:22:40,520 --> 00:22:43,520 Speaker 4: I think he didn't want the jurors making the decision 319 00:22:43,600 --> 00:22:46,920 Speaker 4: for him. I think he still wanted to maintain control, 320 00:22:48,200 --> 00:22:51,040 Speaker 4: and so he pled guilty. 321 00:22:51,960 --> 00:22:55,600 Speaker 1: There's a stunned silence from everyone at the courthouse, and 322 00:22:55,720 --> 00:22:59,480 Speaker 1: Kathleen Barnett looks over at Glenn's family, at his wife and. 323 00:22:59,440 --> 00:23:04,280 Speaker 6: Son, and there was Judy and Roddy mccurly sitting there 324 00:23:04,320 --> 00:23:06,960 Speaker 6: and I recognized them from all the flew thing. We 325 00:23:07,080 --> 00:23:11,520 Speaker 6: of course done once the announcement, but I walked up 326 00:23:11,560 --> 00:23:13,760 Speaker 6: to Roddy and I said, I'm sorry for what your 327 00:23:13,800 --> 00:23:15,000 Speaker 6: family's going through. 328 00:23:15,920 --> 00:23:19,800 Speaker 3: How does that impact Glenn mccurley's children, who you know 329 00:23:19,960 --> 00:23:26,880 Speaker 3: are adults now, but defined out that your dad committed 330 00:23:26,920 --> 00:23:32,640 Speaker 3: this horrible murder and here he's your dad. I could 331 00:23:32,840 --> 00:23:36,640 Speaker 3: just see how that would really impact your identity, how 332 00:23:36,680 --> 00:23:39,760 Speaker 3: you see yourself, your whole childhood, who you are. 333 00:23:40,400 --> 00:23:44,679 Speaker 1: Oh my god, you have to be like rethinking everything, 334 00:23:44,880 --> 00:23:48,520 Speaker 1: Like my entire life is like a lie. Yeah, like 335 00:23:48,560 --> 00:23:52,760 Speaker 1: this person that I have spent you know, the most 336 00:23:52,800 --> 00:23:57,520 Speaker 1: time with of your parents and I didn't even know 337 00:23:57,600 --> 00:24:00,720 Speaker 1: this person. Like living with a monster and having absolutely 338 00:24:00,800 --> 00:24:05,560 Speaker 1: no idea. I mean, you must be questioning yourself everything. 339 00:24:06,040 --> 00:24:06,440 Speaker 3: Yeah. 340 00:24:06,640 --> 00:24:10,639 Speaker 1: So Kathleen's talking to Roddy, Glenn's son, and. 341 00:24:10,520 --> 00:24:14,000 Speaker 6: He stood up to talk to me, and I said, 342 00:24:14,040 --> 00:24:15,639 Speaker 6: I know Jim will want to meet you. 343 00:24:16,119 --> 00:24:18,760 Speaker 1: Kathleen can see that Jim, Carla's brother is kind of 344 00:24:18,800 --> 00:24:22,359 Speaker 1: stuck going through security, but once he makes it through, 345 00:24:22,640 --> 00:24:26,080 Speaker 1: she calls him over to where she and Roddy are standing. 346 00:24:26,440 --> 00:24:31,320 Speaker 6: And Jim just started talking to him and they both 347 00:24:31,359 --> 00:24:32,600 Speaker 6: started crying. 348 00:24:33,280 --> 00:24:39,959 Speaker 4: And Jim Walker hugged Lemo Curly's son, and when he 349 00:24:40,040 --> 00:24:44,680 Speaker 4: was embracing Roddy, he just he told Roddy you're as 350 00:24:44,760 --> 00:24:49,000 Speaker 4: much of a victim as my family in this. Roddy 351 00:24:49,080 --> 00:24:54,520 Speaker 4: had no idea that his father was a murderer, and 352 00:24:54,560 --> 00:24:57,480 Speaker 4: this was all just a shock to him and rocked 353 00:24:57,520 --> 00:25:01,320 Speaker 4: his world. And Roddy absolutely, I mean, he's a victim 354 00:25:01,920 --> 00:25:03,879 Speaker 4: like so many other people in this. 355 00:25:07,040 --> 00:25:11,560 Speaker 3: So for Jim to make that gesture of approaching him 356 00:25:11,760 --> 00:25:15,280 Speaker 3: and kind of acknowledging how painful this must be for 357 00:25:15,400 --> 00:25:18,600 Speaker 3: the person who is the son of Glenn mccurly and 358 00:25:18,680 --> 00:25:21,480 Speaker 3: to face him and say that, I mean, that is 359 00:25:22,320 --> 00:25:24,520 Speaker 3: truly powerful. 360 00:25:24,000 --> 00:25:28,880 Speaker 1: And like such a sign of compassion. Like I don't 361 00:25:28,880 --> 00:25:30,679 Speaker 1: know if I'd be able to do that. I mean, 362 00:25:30,720 --> 00:25:34,320 Speaker 1: I know it's not Roddy's fault Glenn's son that his 363 00:25:34,440 --> 00:25:38,720 Speaker 1: dad did this, But that's a really open heart to have, 364 00:25:39,760 --> 00:25:42,880 Speaker 1: because it's easy. You could just direct more of the 365 00:25:42,920 --> 00:25:47,040 Speaker 1: anger that you have about your sister's brutal murder toward 366 00:25:48,440 --> 00:25:52,920 Speaker 1: one of Glenn's family members and to literally embrace him. 367 00:25:53,200 --> 00:25:57,080 Speaker 1: I mean, that's it's courageous and it's compassionate. I don't know, 368 00:25:57,119 --> 00:25:58,560 Speaker 1: I don't know how many people could do that. 369 00:25:59,800 --> 00:26:02,720 Speaker 2: Yeah, Yeah, God works, God has a sense of unior. 370 00:26:03,880 --> 00:26:06,680 Speaker 1: Jim told me that since the trial, He and Roddy 371 00:26:06,720 --> 00:26:08,000 Speaker 1: have actually gotten to know each other. 372 00:26:08,680 --> 00:26:09,800 Speaker 4: He's a personal friend. 373 00:26:10,760 --> 00:26:15,120 Speaker 2: We've had dinner together, Thanksgiving dinner together. He's welcome at 374 00:26:15,119 --> 00:26:17,760 Speaker 2: my house anytime. He's a good man. And he was 375 00:26:17,920 --> 00:26:21,119 Speaker 2: devastated as well. His dad committed a vicious crime on 376 00:26:21,200 --> 00:26:25,920 Speaker 2: him as well, meaning all that his dad had done 377 00:26:25,960 --> 00:26:31,240 Speaker 2: had victimized his family. Yeah, it's funny how God works 378 00:26:31,880 --> 00:26:33,040 Speaker 2: good come out of evil. 379 00:26:33,920 --> 00:26:37,399 Speaker 1: Jim has spent a lot of time reflecting about what 380 00:26:37,680 --> 00:26:41,320 Speaker 1: all of this Carlo's murder and his obsession with finding 381 00:26:41,359 --> 00:26:43,560 Speaker 1: her killer has done to him personally. 382 00:26:44,240 --> 00:26:51,920 Speaker 2: I spent so many years hating, right, raging. I mean, 383 00:26:52,840 --> 00:26:54,399 Speaker 2: it was the dream of mine. I would talk to 384 00:26:54,440 --> 00:26:56,880 Speaker 2: God a whole lot, just nor let me know who 385 00:26:56,880 --> 00:27:01,119 Speaker 2: it is, and he'll disappear and I'll take care of it. 386 00:27:01,280 --> 00:27:04,679 Speaker 2: The things I thought that I knew I wanted to 387 00:27:04,680 --> 00:27:09,200 Speaker 2: do would were sadistic and horrible. I had lost my mom, 388 00:27:09,400 --> 00:27:12,240 Speaker 2: lost my dad. Uh took care of my mom for 389 00:27:12,240 --> 00:27:14,159 Speaker 2: a long time. I used to kiss her before she 390 00:27:14,160 --> 00:27:16,680 Speaker 2: went to sleep at nighttime and tell her, Hey, we're 391 00:27:16,680 --> 00:27:18,359 Speaker 2: going to catch the guy. We're gonna get him. We're 392 00:27:18,359 --> 00:27:26,520 Speaker 2: gonna get him. Everything changed, Everything changed in my life. 393 00:27:27,680 --> 00:27:30,800 Speaker 3: I can see how his anger was probably tearing him apart. 394 00:27:31,280 --> 00:27:34,360 Speaker 3: So what changed, Yeah, it was. 395 00:27:34,520 --> 00:27:37,920 Speaker 1: I mean, Jim's anger was always there, just right under 396 00:27:37,920 --> 00:27:40,720 Speaker 1: the surface, and it got to the point where he 397 00:27:41,040 --> 00:27:43,400 Speaker 1: was starting to become worried about what he might do. 398 00:27:45,119 --> 00:27:49,240 Speaker 1: So he said he was pretty desperate and the last 399 00:27:49,240 --> 00:27:51,800 Speaker 1: thing he could think of was to turn to his faith. 400 00:27:52,960 --> 00:27:54,960 Speaker 2: Had to give it all to God or I wouldn't 401 00:27:54,960 --> 00:27:58,520 Speaker 2: have been here. I'm a believer, and because of that, 402 00:27:58,600 --> 00:28:00,880 Speaker 2: I was required to forgive. 403 00:28:01,040 --> 00:28:01,240 Speaker 4: Right. 404 00:28:01,440 --> 00:28:05,040 Speaker 2: Forgiving doesn't mean forgetting. You don't have to forget. But 405 00:28:05,520 --> 00:28:09,359 Speaker 2: when somebody has done you, you know, calls such pain, 406 00:28:09,520 --> 00:28:13,560 Speaker 2: such wrong, we all need to forgive the person. Doesn't 407 00:28:13,600 --> 00:28:17,199 Speaker 2: mean anything the bad guy did was right. But what 408 00:28:17,280 --> 00:28:23,280 Speaker 2: happens is when you forgive somebody for doing horrificly harmful 409 00:28:23,320 --> 00:28:26,239 Speaker 2: things to you or your family or loved ones, is 410 00:28:26,440 --> 00:28:30,320 Speaker 2: you take the power away from that person, from them 411 00:28:30,359 --> 00:28:34,520 Speaker 2: controlling you. Right. And I learned quickly that forgiveness is 412 00:28:34,560 --> 00:28:37,920 Speaker 2: not necessarily for the person who hurts you. It's kind 413 00:28:37,920 --> 00:28:40,920 Speaker 2: of for you because you're taking control back. You're not 414 00:28:41,080 --> 00:28:44,640 Speaker 2: letting some boogeyman control your life. Right. 415 00:28:46,080 --> 00:28:49,000 Speaker 1: Glenn McCurley is sentenced to life in prison without the 416 00:28:49,040 --> 00:28:53,240 Speaker 1: possibility of parole. He ends up dying in twenty twenty 417 00:28:53,240 --> 00:28:57,120 Speaker 1: three of natural causes. But Detective Jeff Bennett is still 418 00:28:57,240 --> 00:29:00,840 Speaker 1: investigating the murders of the other young women fort Worth 419 00:29:01,560 --> 00:29:04,520 Speaker 1: because he thinks they could be more of Glenn's victims. 420 00:29:04,960 --> 00:29:08,720 Speaker 3: And what about Rodney, Carla's boyfriend. I mean, he was 421 00:29:08,760 --> 00:29:12,920 Speaker 3: a suspect for almost fifty years. How did he react 422 00:29:12,960 --> 00:29:13,320 Speaker 3: all this? 423 00:29:14,000 --> 00:29:14,360 Speaker 6: I know? 424 00:29:14,520 --> 00:29:17,560 Speaker 1: I mean this case is really as much about convicting 425 00:29:17,640 --> 00:29:21,600 Speaker 1: who killed Carla as exonerating Rodney. I mean, he had 426 00:29:21,640 --> 00:29:25,400 Speaker 1: lost his relationship with the Walker family when Carla died. 427 00:29:25,840 --> 00:29:29,360 Speaker 1: He distanced himself from friends and moved up to Alaska. 428 00:29:30,040 --> 00:29:33,680 Speaker 1: I mean, he really moved away from every everything he knew. 429 00:29:34,440 --> 00:29:37,160 Speaker 1: And Kathleen, the cowtown Chick, I think she explains it 430 00:29:37,240 --> 00:29:40,520 Speaker 1: best when she spoke to Rodney after Glenn's guilty plea. 431 00:29:41,160 --> 00:29:45,320 Speaker 6: It was just like the whole weight of the world. 432 00:29:45,400 --> 00:29:47,640 Speaker 6: You could just hear it in his voice. His life 433 00:29:47,720 --> 00:29:48,360 Speaker 6: was changed. 434 00:29:49,640 --> 00:29:53,600 Speaker 1: So after court that day, Carla's family and friends decide 435 00:29:53,600 --> 00:29:57,200 Speaker 1: to walk across the street to a restaurant and they 436 00:29:57,280 --> 00:30:01,560 Speaker 1: invite the Cowtown Chicks, Kathleen and Diane and Detective Bennett 437 00:30:01,640 --> 00:30:05,160 Speaker 1: and his partner, Detective Leah Wagner, and they all just 438 00:30:05,240 --> 00:30:08,920 Speaker 1: sort of want to get together and process what's just happened. 439 00:30:09,640 --> 00:30:11,520 Speaker 1: And remember the promise ring. 440 00:30:12,120 --> 00:30:15,880 Speaker 3: Yeah, the one that Rodney so many years earlier had 441 00:30:15,920 --> 00:30:20,200 Speaker 3: given to Carla that they found by Carla's body. Some 442 00:30:20,240 --> 00:30:22,440 Speaker 3: people saw it as a sign of Rodney's guilt. 443 00:30:23,240 --> 00:30:29,000 Speaker 4: We still had the promise ring in evidence. My partner, Leah, 444 00:30:29,520 --> 00:30:33,640 Speaker 4: she asked me, She goes, how do you feel about 445 00:30:33,880 --> 00:30:38,080 Speaker 4: us giving that ring back to Rodney? And I said, 446 00:30:38,160 --> 00:30:40,040 Speaker 4: you know what, I think that's a great. 447 00:30:39,760 --> 00:30:43,360 Speaker 1: Idea, Diane said. While everyone's gathering in the back room 448 00:30:43,400 --> 00:30:46,520 Speaker 1: of this restaurant, it turns out that detectives Bennett and 449 00:30:46,600 --> 00:30:49,960 Speaker 1: Wagner actually head back to the police station to pick 450 00:30:50,040 --> 00:30:50,880 Speaker 1: up the promise ring. 451 00:30:51,560 --> 00:30:54,360 Speaker 7: She opened up this little box that she had taken 452 00:30:54,400 --> 00:30:57,920 Speaker 7: out of her pocket, and it was the promise ring 453 00:30:58,160 --> 00:31:01,840 Speaker 7: that Rodney had given Harla, and it had been in 454 00:31:01,960 --> 00:31:06,760 Speaker 7: evidence all that time, and she went and gave it 455 00:31:06,800 --> 00:31:09,280 Speaker 7: to him, and of course we were all in tears then, 456 00:31:09,400 --> 00:31:12,880 Speaker 7: you know, and clapping and cheering for because I guess 457 00:31:12,880 --> 00:31:15,800 Speaker 7: that was kind of her way of saying she was sorry. 458 00:31:20,680 --> 00:31:23,920 Speaker 1: This case went unsolved for forty six years, and it 459 00:31:23,960 --> 00:31:26,400 Speaker 1: makes you wonder how much longer it would have just 460 00:31:26,480 --> 00:31:31,120 Speaker 1: sat there without forensic genetic genealogy. And that got Kristin 461 00:31:31,200 --> 00:31:35,640 Speaker 1: Middelman from authoram thinking. She met Jim Walker and listening 462 00:31:35,640 --> 00:31:38,479 Speaker 1: to what this whole ordeal did to him and his family, 463 00:31:39,360 --> 00:31:42,240 Speaker 1: It literally left her in tears and she was like, 464 00:31:42,360 --> 00:31:45,320 Speaker 1: wait a second, why doesn't every single victim and family 465 00:31:45,360 --> 00:31:47,000 Speaker 1: have access to this technology. 466 00:31:48,280 --> 00:31:52,080 Speaker 5: He knew exactly the number of days to the day 467 00:31:52,720 --> 00:31:56,440 Speaker 5: that his sister was taken. I think he said nineteen 468 00:31:56,840 --> 00:31:59,360 Speaker 5: two hundred and ninety eight days ago. He was counting 469 00:31:59,360 --> 00:32:03,080 Speaker 5: the days, and it was just one of those extremely 470 00:32:03,160 --> 00:32:07,080 Speaker 5: overwhelming moments where you can see the impact that one 471 00:32:07,160 --> 00:32:10,160 Speaker 5: DNA test has on the world. And it showed me 472 00:32:11,240 --> 00:32:17,320 Speaker 5: why every case should get the best chance of being solved. 473 00:32:24,680 --> 00:32:26,760 Speaker 1: And I'm pretty sure it's out of her wheelhouse, but 474 00:32:27,000 --> 00:32:31,000 Speaker 1: she was like a woman on a mission, and she 475 00:32:31,160 --> 00:32:35,719 Speaker 1: met with lawmakers to introduce a bill in Congress and 476 00:32:35,760 --> 00:32:38,240 Speaker 1: it's called the Carla Walker Act. 477 00:32:38,560 --> 00:32:41,920 Speaker 5: What we realized is there needed to be a dedicated 478 00:32:42,160 --> 00:32:45,040 Speaker 5: plot of funding that law enforcement could go to when 479 00:32:45,120 --> 00:32:48,360 Speaker 5: their case had reached a DNA dead end, and there 480 00:32:48,480 --> 00:32:52,600 Speaker 5: was no answer through traditional DNA testing whether it was 481 00:32:53,080 --> 00:32:56,000 Speaker 5: a victim that was unidentified or a perpetrator that was 482 00:32:56,080 --> 00:32:59,720 Speaker 5: unidentified that they could go to and say, look, I 483 00:33:00,120 --> 00:33:04,520 Speaker 5: have DNA, it's suitable for this technology. Can I please 484 00:33:04,560 --> 00:33:07,720 Speaker 5: have some funding to run this more advanced DNA testing. 485 00:33:08,560 --> 00:33:12,080 Speaker 1: The Carla Walker Act would also funnel money to state 486 00:33:12,120 --> 00:33:15,120 Speaker 1: crime labs so they could do this type of forensic 487 00:33:15,160 --> 00:33:19,920 Speaker 1: genetic genealogy in health, and it would regulate the industry, 488 00:33:20,320 --> 00:33:23,959 Speaker 1: so right now labs don't have to share how successful 489 00:33:24,000 --> 00:33:26,760 Speaker 1: they are at testing DNA from crime scenes. 490 00:33:27,480 --> 00:33:30,560 Speaker 5: When you go to a doctor, they're using a treatment 491 00:33:30,640 --> 00:33:34,640 Speaker 5: on you that they have metrics for, that they have 492 00:33:34,720 --> 00:33:38,000 Speaker 5: put through clinical trials, and they know that kind of 493 00:33:38,040 --> 00:33:40,959 Speaker 5: treatment has helped others with your disorder in the past 494 00:33:41,160 --> 00:33:44,480 Speaker 5: and is effective. You wouldn't want a doctor to use 495 00:33:44,480 --> 00:33:47,440 Speaker 5: a treatment that worked one percent of the time when 496 00:33:47,480 --> 00:33:49,760 Speaker 5: there's a treatment out there that could work ninety five 497 00:33:49,800 --> 00:33:52,520 Speaker 5: percent of the time. In fact, it would be called 498 00:33:52,640 --> 00:33:58,400 Speaker 5: medical malpractice. Why don't we have that concept in forensics? 499 00:33:58,720 --> 00:34:01,479 Speaker 3: And in Carla's case, they almost ran out of DNA 500 00:34:01,560 --> 00:34:04,320 Speaker 3: when the initial lab destroyed so much of it but 501 00:34:04,440 --> 00:34:08,200 Speaker 3: had no results. So if you're a detective, that's incredibly 502 00:34:08,239 --> 00:34:11,400 Speaker 3: confusing because you're not a scientist, but you have to 503 00:34:11,440 --> 00:34:14,240 Speaker 3: rely on a lab to test the evidence. So yeah, 504 00:34:14,320 --> 00:34:15,799 Speaker 3: I would want to have a way to make sure 505 00:34:15,880 --> 00:34:18,040 Speaker 3: the lab can prove that it's effective. 506 00:34:18,719 --> 00:34:20,799 Speaker 5: There's a lot in stake. There's even more than that 507 00:34:20,920 --> 00:34:23,880 Speaker 5: in stake if the perpetrator is still living and hasn't 508 00:34:23,960 --> 00:34:28,480 Speaker 5: aged out of crime. Identifying a perpetrator in seven years 509 00:34:28,800 --> 00:34:47,000 Speaker 5: versus seven days prevents how many victims along the way. 510 00:34:48,280 --> 00:34:50,640 Speaker 3: Next time on America's Crime Lab. 511 00:34:52,560 --> 00:34:56,759 Speaker 8: And man, this guy burned alive in this boat, not 512 00:34:56,920 --> 00:35:00,799 Speaker 8: as heinous right like there was. There's no if fans 513 00:35:00,880 --> 00:35:03,200 Speaker 8: or busts. He burned up alive. 514 00:35:03,280 --> 00:35:05,440 Speaker 2: I don't think people understand the magnitude of the problem. 515 00:35:05,560 --> 00:35:08,320 Speaker 1: People don't realize that there are literally tens of thousands 516 00:35:08,320 --> 00:35:11,040 Speaker 1: of bodies that are not identified and will probably never 517 00:35:11,040 --> 00:35:11,879 Speaker 1: get identified. 518 00:35:12,680 --> 00:35:14,440 Speaker 4: They told me that he had a daughter, and so 519 00:35:14,520 --> 00:35:17,200 Speaker 4: that's when I immediately just started thinking, my banda, she 520 00:35:17,360 --> 00:35:20,640 Speaker 4: know where her dad's been this whole time. 521 00:35:25,920 --> 00:35:29,640 Speaker 3: America's Crime Lab is produced by Rococo Punch for Kaleidoscope. 522 00:35:30,160 --> 00:35:32,960 Speaker 3: Erica Lance is our story editor, and sound design is 523 00:35:33,000 --> 00:35:36,759 Speaker 3: by David Woji. Our producing team is Catherine Fedalosa and 524 00:35:36,840 --> 00:35:41,360 Speaker 3: Jessica Albert. Our executive producers are Kate Osborne, Mangesh Hadi 525 00:35:41,360 --> 00:35:45,280 Speaker 3: Gadour and David and Kristin Middleman and from iHeart Katrina 526 00:35:45,360 --> 00:35:49,600 Speaker 3: Norvell and Ali Perry. Special thanks to Connell Byrne, Will Pearson, 527 00:35:49,760 --> 00:35:53,960 Speaker 3: Kerry Lieberman, Nikki Etoor, Nathan Etowski, John Burbank, and the 528 00:35:54,120 --> 00:36:02,920 Speaker 3: entire team at Authorm. I'm Alan Lance Lesser, thanks for listening. 529 00:36:03,480 --> 00:36:06,320 Speaker 3: Came