WEBVTT - Matinee Science Playlist, Part 6: ‘Silent Running’ 0:00:00.120 --> 0:00:04.760 My welcome to Stuff to Blow Your Mind, a production 0:00:04.800 --> 0:00:13.520 of I Heart Radios How Stuff Works. Hey, you welcome 0:00:13.520 --> 0:00:15.560 to Stuff to Blow Your Mind. My name is Robert 0:00:15.640 --> 0:00:18.080 Lamb and I'm Joe McCormick. In today, of course, we're 0:00:18.079 --> 0:00:20.320 going to be doing a movie episode. That's right. We've 0:00:20.320 --> 0:00:22.640 been trying to do one of these a month just 0:00:22.720 --> 0:00:25.119 because there's so many, so many films we love, and 0:00:25.160 --> 0:00:28.400 so many films that either have wonderful tie ins to 0:00:28.520 --> 0:00:31.440 scientific and cultural topics that we've discussed on the show, 0:00:32.000 --> 0:00:35.080 um or you know, they allow us to discuss new 0:00:35.159 --> 0:00:39.280 things and new angles. It wouldn't necessarily necessitate an entire 0:00:39.320 --> 0:00:42.600 episode on their own. Alright, So what's on the docket today, Well, 0:00:42.640 --> 0:00:45.640 this month we're looking at really one of my I 0:00:45.920 --> 0:00:47.839 have to say, it's one of my favorite films. Uh, 0:00:48.479 --> 0:00:50.200 you know, in terms of thinking about films you saw 0:00:50.240 --> 0:00:52.080 at a definite point in your life that had an 0:00:52.120 --> 0:00:55.720 impact on your your your outlook. Uh. And the film 0:00:55.800 --> 0:00:59.600 is ninety two is Silent Running. I saw it for 0:00:59.640 --> 0:01:03.000 the first time this weekend. Yeah, I've never seen it before. 0:01:03.000 --> 0:01:05.200 I'd seen like stills from it. I think I've seen 0:01:05.280 --> 0:01:09.119 stills of the robots because it's a very robot heavy film, 0:01:09.240 --> 0:01:13.640 despite being one obsessed with nature and environmental themes of 0:01:13.760 --> 0:01:16.840 the robots getting awful lot of screen time they do. Yeah, 0:01:17.360 --> 0:01:20.319 I think if you're having trouble picturing the film, if 0:01:20.319 --> 0:01:23.880 we just mentioned like Judesic Gnomes in space with with 0:01:24.000 --> 0:01:28.600 forests and them Bruce Dern and then three domain diminutive 0:01:28.680 --> 0:01:32.320 robots that kind of shamble around, that's that's silent running 0:01:32.319 --> 0:01:36.119 in a nutshell. Now. This was directed by Douglas Trumbull, right, 0:01:36.160 --> 0:01:39.640 who was like a visual effects guy for many years. Yeah. Yeah, 0:01:39.720 --> 0:01:42.920 he he provided special photographic effects for such classic sci 0:01:42.920 --> 0:01:45.160 fi films as two thousand and one of Space Odyssey, 0:01:45.200 --> 0:01:47.920 one of the best close encounters of the third kind, 0:01:47.960 --> 0:01:50.720 Star Trek, the motion picture Blade Runner, and then later 0:01:50.800 --> 0:01:54.880 on The Tree of Life. Uh. And then it was 0:01:54.920 --> 0:01:57.120 in the family too, because his father was a special 0:01:57.120 --> 0:02:00.600 effects pioneer who worked on ninety nine The Whiz of Oz. 0:02:01.200 --> 0:02:05.200 You can really feel the spirit of the sixties in 0:02:05.240 --> 0:02:08.000 this movie from seventy two, but maybe you can also 0:02:08.120 --> 0:02:11.280 feel the despair of the seventies, and it is both 0:02:11.320 --> 0:02:15.760 of those spirits come crashing together in Silent Running. Yeah. 0:02:15.919 --> 0:02:18.399 I thought about I've been thinking about this a lot recently, 0:02:18.520 --> 0:02:23.120 in part because we're researching episodes about psychedelics and about 0:02:23.120 --> 0:02:27.760 psychedelic research, and then the the decades in which actual 0:02:27.800 --> 0:02:32.760 medical research regarding psychedelics just completely languished. And it always 0:02:32.800 --> 0:02:36.560 makes me think of Hunter S. Thompson's commentary about the 0:02:36.360 --> 0:02:39.079 the the wave of the of the nineteen sixties crashing 0:02:39.160 --> 0:02:42.320 and falling back. Uh and and once again, I think 0:02:42.639 --> 0:02:45.320 you know that ties into to this film as well. 0:02:45.800 --> 0:02:48.880 Before we continue, though, let's let's have just a quick 0:02:49.000 --> 0:02:52.760 audio sample from the original trailer for Silent Running, just 0:02:52.760 --> 0:02:55.600 to remind everybody a little bit about what we're talking 0:02:55.639 --> 0:03:08.079 about here. A space convoy on a strange voyage carrying 0:03:08.200 --> 0:03:12.079 a rare cargo. The forests, the plants, the growing things 0:03:12.200 --> 0:03:17.520 doomed to extinction on Earth. We have count received orders 0:03:17.600 --> 0:03:23.440 to abandon that nupler, destruct all the forests, and returned 0:03:23.480 --> 0:03:31.600 our ships to commercial So we're going you blow up discourse. 0:03:35.520 --> 0:03:50.000 Thank you now more. Volga Silent Running characlysm in outer space, 0:03:50.440 --> 0:03:53.800 every moment bringing its own danger as man explores the 0:03:53.840 --> 0:03:59.560 mysteries of an unknown and limitless universe. Valiport volliport, little wrong, 0:03:59.600 --> 0:04:02.160 You will be out, you're accelerating. I got a premature, 0:04:07.760 --> 0:04:09.720 so I think we have a taste in that that trailer. 0:04:09.800 --> 0:04:14.160 This is a very ranty film, oh man. A lot 0:04:14.200 --> 0:04:16.919 of the movie also, and besides the scenes with robots 0:04:17.000 --> 0:04:19.520 just kind of hanging out and not really executing much 0:04:20.040 --> 0:04:22.239 uh much having to do with furtherance of the plot, 0:04:22.360 --> 0:04:25.599 just moving around and doing things, there's also a lot 0:04:25.640 --> 0:04:30.599 of Bruce Dern chastising the camera and giving sermons to 0:04:30.640 --> 0:04:35.080 other characters about their lack of appreciation for nature. Yeah, 0:04:35.120 --> 0:04:37.159 so it's it's a very it's a very weird movie 0:04:37.200 --> 0:04:39.200 in that regard, and you know that, thinking of you 0:04:39.200 --> 0:04:40.840 talked about how you watched it for the first time 0:04:40.880 --> 0:04:43.480 just the other day. I watched it for the first time, 0:04:43.600 --> 0:04:47.400 probably like in a Sunday afternoon on cable TV in 0:04:47.440 --> 0:04:50.279 the nineties when I was like in junior high. I guess, 0:04:50.680 --> 0:04:52.960 uh and and you know air on a any just 0:04:53.040 --> 0:04:55.880 like matinee showing of it, and I just like turned 0:04:55.920 --> 0:04:58.400 over to it and was just sucked in by this 0:04:58.440 --> 0:05:01.320 film that doesn't have much in the way of action. 0:05:01.360 --> 0:05:04.800 There's there are a few key action scenes, but it 0:05:04.920 --> 0:05:07.560 is not an action film. It is a it is 0:05:07.560 --> 0:05:11.360 an environmental science fiction film. I mean I'd also say 0:05:11.360 --> 0:05:14.640 it's not even really a very plot heavy film. There's 0:05:14.680 --> 0:05:19.680 basically a situation and that situation comes about and then 0:05:19.720 --> 0:05:22.040 that's about it. I mean, the huge swaths of the 0:05:22.120 --> 0:05:26.280 runtime are just characters kind of hanging out. Yeah, and uh, 0:05:26.720 --> 0:05:30.080 it benefits I think from three major factors. You know, 0:05:30.120 --> 0:05:31.840 if we're just sort of pull these out and then 0:05:31.960 --> 0:05:34.800 realized it's complicated when you try and like pull the 0:05:34.880 --> 0:05:37.000 key elements out of a picture when everything needs to 0:05:37.120 --> 0:05:39.159 essentially be a cohesive hole. And then I think in 0:05:39.160 --> 0:05:43.240 this picture is but you have Bruce Dern's performance, which 0:05:43.279 --> 0:05:47.520 is fabulous. I mean, Bruce Dern is was and is 0:05:47.720 --> 0:05:51.440 an acting treasure. I mean, often relegated to the villain 0:05:51.560 --> 0:05:54.520 rolls for sure, but capable of much more. And I 0:05:54.560 --> 0:05:57.279 think we see, uh, we see a little bit of 0:05:57.320 --> 0:05:59.400 that in this film. And then the other key aspects 0:05:59.400 --> 0:06:03.719 of this are they the sets look fabulous, Um, the 0:06:03.760 --> 0:06:07.120 models look fabulous, The effects are all wonderful. Uh, and 0:06:07.400 --> 0:06:10.120 you have you have some wonderful music in the film too. 0:06:10.200 --> 0:06:13.520 So again, this this film is a product of the 0:06:13.600 --> 0:06:17.480 late nineteen sixties spilling over into the early nineteen seventies, uh, 0:06:17.520 --> 0:06:20.360 and and it is it's for several reasons for stars. 0:06:20.520 --> 0:06:23.960 The studio apparently decided to give more first time directors 0:06:23.960 --> 0:06:26.360 a shot after the success of nineteen sixty nine is 0:06:26.400 --> 0:06:29.800 Easy Rider, which is directed by Dennis Hopper, said Dennis 0:06:29.839 --> 0:06:35.279 Hopper's first director red directorial feature and uh. In anyway, 0:06:35.480 --> 0:06:37.800 the films to come in the wake of that included 0:06:37.960 --> 0:06:44.240 Silent Running. Also the music, so Joan Bayaz uh submitted 0:06:44.600 --> 0:06:47.719 like to two songs for this film, Silent Running and 0:06:47.800 --> 0:06:51.440 Rejoice in the Sun, both of which are prominently featured. 0:06:51.960 --> 0:06:54.520 And for anyone not familiar with Joan Bayazz, first of all, 0:06:54.640 --> 0:06:57.120 go look up Joan Bayazz and and these songs in 0:06:57.160 --> 0:07:01.240 particular are currently on streaming services. But she was a 0:07:01.279 --> 0:07:04.520 major social and political musical force of the nineteen sixties 0:07:04.560 --> 0:07:08.400 and beyond playing at the original Woodstock. And she's always 0:07:08.440 --> 0:07:12.720 advocated civil rights, environmentalism, and human rights including l g P, 0:07:12.840 --> 0:07:16.720 d q I A plus rights. Um. So I mean, 0:07:16.760 --> 0:07:19.880 all these elements I think really give it a feel 0:07:20.120 --> 0:07:22.440 that that sets it apart from everything else. Like so, 0:07:22.480 --> 0:07:25.920 if you were watching looking around for any kind of 0:07:25.920 --> 0:07:29.520 science fiction on TV in the in the late nineties 0:07:29.680 --> 0:07:31.720 like this stood out. This was a different type of 0:07:31.760 --> 0:07:34.480 space and robots film. It's from another dimension. I mean, 0:07:34.520 --> 0:07:37.080 it's got it really does have this feeling of the 0:07:37.080 --> 0:07:40.440 sixties and seventies culture coming together. But also it's a 0:07:40.520 --> 0:07:44.160 very weird combination of elements. It's got these robots, but 0:07:44.320 --> 0:07:48.800 the environmental themes. It's got these great special effects and 0:07:48.960 --> 0:07:53.080 like practical miniature effects, you know, which watching movies like 0:07:53.120 --> 0:07:56.480 this really just makes me simmer with rage at the 0:07:56.480 --> 0:07:58.560 c g I age. You know, I'm so sick of 0:07:58.600 --> 0:08:00.880 all the c g I space ships. I wish they'd 0:08:00.880 --> 0:08:03.440 bring back the miniature models and you know in the 0:08:03.440 --> 0:08:06.080 backdrops and the painted sets and everything. Oh yeah, I 0:08:06.080 --> 0:08:09.200 mean yeah, they were so good, and those skills still exist. Uh, 0:08:09.360 --> 0:08:12.080 they're just not being employed for the most part with 0:08:12.120 --> 0:08:14.480 motion pictures. Yeah, but then you've got that, and so 0:08:14.640 --> 0:08:17.640 those like sci fi special effects are clashing with just 0:08:18.000 --> 0:08:22.800 really in your face Joan Baya's musical numbers. Uh. It's 0:08:22.840 --> 0:08:26.080 it's a strange, unique kind of movie. I don't I 0:08:26.120 --> 0:08:28.760 can't think of another thing I've seen like it. So 0:08:28.840 --> 0:08:30.559 let's talk to just a little bit about the plot, 0:08:30.640 --> 0:08:33.840 just to remind everybody who's seen it before and refresh 0:08:34.000 --> 0:08:36.440 everyone else. We're gonna I guess I think we're gonna 0:08:36.440 --> 0:08:39.520 avoid any real spoilers here in terms of the end 0:08:39.520 --> 0:08:41.320 of the film. But you know, if you want to 0:08:41.320 --> 0:08:44.880 go into the film spoiler free, pause this, uh this podcast, 0:08:44.960 --> 0:08:49.160 go watch it and then come back. So the basic synopsis, 0:08:49.360 --> 0:08:53.160 it's the future. The planet Earth is essentially dying. A 0:08:53.280 --> 0:08:56.720 great dying has ravage botanical life on our planet, and 0:08:56.760 --> 0:08:59.800 the remaining shreds of botanical life and some animal life 0:09:00.200 --> 0:09:03.640 now thrive solely within a series of geodesic domes that 0:09:03.679 --> 0:09:07.640 are affixed to a spaceship called the Valley Forge, and 0:09:07.679 --> 0:09:10.760 the Valley Forges orbiting just outside the orbit of Saturn, 0:09:11.160 --> 0:09:14.120 and here a four person crew tends to things. That 0:09:14.240 --> 0:09:18.000 includes botanist Freeman Lowell, who's our our main character, played 0:09:18.000 --> 0:09:21.480 by Bruce Den, and three helper robots named Huey, Dewey 0:09:21.520 --> 0:09:25.800 and Louie Well. Originally, no, originally they have robot names. 0:09:25.800 --> 0:09:28.559 They're called like Drone number one, that's Drone number two, 0:09:28.920 --> 0:09:31.360 and then Bruce Den, in a in a moment of 0:09:31.400 --> 0:09:34.800 sort of magical thinking, names them. And it said that 0:09:34.920 --> 0:09:38.200 moment that they seem to acquire personalities that they don't 0:09:38.200 --> 0:09:40.800 seem to have had before. Yeah, the end this occurs 0:09:40.880 --> 0:09:43.360 later when it's when it's just a durn. So how 0:09:43.360 --> 0:09:46.000 does it just become a situation of only Bruce Den's 0:09:46.040 --> 0:09:49.040 character in Three Robots. Well, basically, one day an order 0:09:49.080 --> 0:09:52.120 comes down, uh that all the forest have to be 0:09:52.240 --> 0:09:56.600 jettisoned and detonated with new clear ball with nuclear weapons. Yes, 0:09:57.080 --> 0:09:59.680 and then the and the rest of the crew just 0:09:59.720 --> 0:10:01.760 take this and stride. They're like, all right, it's time 0:10:01.800 --> 0:10:04.440 to go home. Time to ditch these uh these forests 0:10:04.440 --> 0:10:08.600 and head back. But Lowell is very upset by this 0:10:08.760 --> 0:10:12.200 and finally breaks and betrays his fellow crew members to 0:10:12.320 --> 0:10:17.360 save one of the save the Last Forest pod and 0:10:17.520 --> 0:10:20.640 uh he ends up faking a malfunction and then takes 0:10:20.640 --> 0:10:24.880 off through Saturn's rings with the World's Last forest and uh. 0:10:24.960 --> 0:10:28.959 You know what follows is a story of of survival loneliness, 0:10:29.040 --> 0:10:31.800 thus the naming of the robots and the bonding with 0:10:31.840 --> 0:10:36.560 the robots. But then also you know this this environmental message. Yeah, 0:10:36.559 --> 0:10:39.360 and it's clear that the orientation of the film is 0:10:39.160 --> 0:10:42.720 a pro environmentalist one, though it's not quite clear exactly 0:10:42.760 --> 0:10:46.880 how much we're supposed to agree with everything Durn says. 0:10:46.920 --> 0:10:51.559 I mean, Durn's character gives these monologues where he excoriates 0:10:51.600 --> 0:10:55.800 his crew members for being satisfied with this horrible synthetic 0:10:55.880 --> 0:10:59.080 existence that they're living where you know, they only eat 0:10:59.120 --> 0:11:02.360 this pre package freeze dried junk, that that they got 0:11:02.400 --> 0:11:05.480 his rations from Earth. Whereas he picks you know, living 0:11:05.520 --> 0:11:08.240 fruits and vegetables from the forest, he picks cantle opes 0:11:08.280 --> 0:11:11.120 and he sits there eating cantle open and just like 0:11:11.480 --> 0:11:14.840 attacking them for putting that garbage in their mouths uh, 0:11:14.880 --> 0:11:17.080 and and talking about how they don't care about the 0:11:17.080 --> 0:11:19.120 trees and they don't care about the forest, and they 0:11:19.200 --> 0:11:21.520 really they don't seem to care. They're just not bothered 0:11:21.559 --> 0:11:24.200 by the fact that Earth doesn't have any forests anymore. 0:11:24.240 --> 0:11:27.440 They just want to get home, and seemingly, uh, you 0:11:27.480 --> 0:11:29.360 are led to believe that they would be happy with 0:11:29.400 --> 0:11:33.640 the life of sort of bland synthetic consumer existence and 0:11:33.920 --> 0:11:37.880 entirely artificial environments with no exposure to plants their animals. 0:11:38.160 --> 0:11:40.600 So in a sense, it's it's like Bruce Tern's character 0:11:40.760 --> 0:11:44.280 is the spirit of the nineteen sixties speaking to these 0:11:44.280 --> 0:11:47.400 denizens of the nineteen seventies and saying like how can 0:11:47.520 --> 0:11:49.840 how can you do this? Like how can you abandon 0:11:49.880 --> 0:11:54.200 these principles? Um? And uh? And in doing so? Yeah, 0:11:54.200 --> 0:11:58.720 Bruce Tern's character, his performance is very abrasive at times. 0:11:58.720 --> 0:12:01.600 You know, he comes off as a real curmudgeon. Uh. 0:12:01.640 --> 0:12:05.679 And uh, you know they're also an idealist and it's 0:12:05.720 --> 0:12:08.240 it is kind of an interesting experience experiment to sort 0:12:08.240 --> 0:12:11.200 of take that apart and figure out, well, what's why 0:12:11.280 --> 0:12:13.040 is he so abrasive? He is, he's supposed to be 0:12:13.320 --> 0:12:17.400 so abrasive. How are we supposed to feel about him? Um? 0:12:17.720 --> 0:12:20.240 Is part of this just what happens when you cast 0:12:20.400 --> 0:12:24.040 a character actor like Bruce Dern in this role. Bruce Dern, 0:12:24.040 --> 0:12:26.200 who had just come off this was just on the 0:12:26.240 --> 0:12:29.680 heels of the film The Cowboys, in which he killed 0:12:29.800 --> 0:12:32.560 John Wayne's character by shooting him in the back. Yeah. 0:12:32.600 --> 0:12:35.800 I mean it's like the ultimate dishonorable scumbag move in 0:12:35.800 --> 0:12:41.160 the Western genre. Yeah, except maybe cheating by drinking clean water. Yeah. 0:12:41.160 --> 0:12:44.599 He played a real real villain in that picture. Uh. 0:12:44.679 --> 0:12:47.080 And interestingly enough, I was looking around at reviews from 0:12:47.120 --> 0:12:50.200 when this came out, and Dern's casting is it seems 0:12:50.240 --> 0:12:52.320 to be a divisive aspect of the film, so some 0:12:52.360 --> 0:12:55.840 critics thought he was great. Like critics who maybe were 0:12:55.880 --> 0:12:58.760 a little lukewarm on other aspects of the film were like, well, 0:12:58.800 --> 0:13:02.319 Bruce Dern's terrific and though while others said, hey, it's 0:13:02.320 --> 0:13:06.239 really difficult to empathize with this character. Uh, and that ultimately, 0:13:06.320 --> 0:13:09.640 perhaps during his performance ends up hurting the message of 0:13:09.640 --> 0:13:11.280 the film. I don't. I don't think I would go 0:13:11.320 --> 0:13:14.040 that far. But you know, obviously he's an actor who 0:13:14.120 --> 0:13:17.720 already had a career based on playing at times dislikable 0:13:17.800 --> 0:13:21.040 characters and uh, and he's still going strong in that 0:13:21.080 --> 0:13:25.720 department today at age a D three. I wonder what 0:13:25.800 --> 0:13:28.679 the equivalent of this casting would be today, Like, who's 0:13:28.720 --> 0:13:32.240 somebody that you would cast in this role where they 0:13:32.240 --> 0:13:36.280 wouldn't be like this divine messenger of environmental hope but 0:13:36.320 --> 0:13:39.280 would come off maybe a bit abrace it. I would 0:13:39.280 --> 0:13:42.400 like to see a movie that's got an environmental conservation 0:13:42.480 --> 0:13:45.440 message where the champion of the environment is Michael Ironside, 0:13:47.600 --> 0:13:50.920 and that's even more difficult to picture. You can't destroy 0:13:51.160 --> 0:13:56.600 these forests. Ironside is clearly an actor that was made 0:13:56.800 --> 0:13:59.480 to play the sort of character who gets who gets 0:13:59.559 --> 0:14:04.120 Jettis and a board and the forest and exploded, not 0:14:04.240 --> 0:14:06.520 so much the savior of the of the Pods. But 0:14:06.559 --> 0:14:09.320 they're different types of villain actors, right, I mean, I 0:14:09.360 --> 0:14:12.400 feel like Michael Ironside is the classic heavy He's the hinchman, 0:14:12.559 --> 0:14:15.520 the tough guy, the tough bad guy. Bruce Dearn is 0:14:15.559 --> 0:14:18.600 more kind of the scumbag. Yeah he played. Yeah, he 0:14:18.600 --> 0:14:22.720 did play a lot of like like sniveling scumbag characters 0:14:22.720 --> 0:14:26.200 in his in his life, in his life. So yeah, 0:14:26.440 --> 0:14:28.080 this is something that I still don't have a firm 0:14:28.120 --> 0:14:30.920 answer for, like how how I feel about his performance. 0:14:30.960 --> 0:14:33.040 But I feel like one of the reasons I connected 0:14:33.080 --> 0:14:35.560 with the film so much as a kid is that like, 0:14:35.640 --> 0:14:39.440 here's this guy who he is a loner, you know, 0:14:39.640 --> 0:14:41.360 and and like here I am, you know, as a 0:14:41.400 --> 0:14:44.440 junior high kid who's you know, hasn't seems to have 0:14:44.600 --> 0:14:47.240 nothing in common with anybody else in my school, and 0:14:47.240 --> 0:14:49.000 and you know, I can, I can connect with him 0:14:49.040 --> 0:14:51.720 on some level. And his only friends their robots. I 0:14:51.720 --> 0:14:53.960 would love to have had robots as friends, you know, 0:14:54.040 --> 0:14:56.200 at the time, and and so you know that kind 0:14:56.200 --> 0:14:58.320 of that that spoke to me as well, and of course, 0:14:58.320 --> 0:15:00.760 he's an idealist. He's trying to he's doing this thing 0:15:00.800 --> 0:15:03.880 that is that that he sees as very heroic, and 0:15:03.920 --> 0:15:06.800 I feel like everybody at that age especially connects with that, 0:15:07.480 --> 0:15:10.000 and uh yeah. And then as as as you grow older, 0:15:10.200 --> 0:15:11.960 I think a role like this you keep coming back to, 0:15:12.040 --> 0:15:14.920 and maybe you end up being more forgiving of of 0:15:14.920 --> 0:15:18.360 of the character's faults because you're like, you agree with 0:15:18.600 --> 0:15:20.960 the basic idea. Maybe you don't agree with his use 0:15:20.960 --> 0:15:24.520 of murder, right, but still you're you you agree with 0:15:24.680 --> 0:15:28.320 his his basic ideology here that you know, the forests 0:15:28.360 --> 0:15:30.960 are worth saying, that nature is worth saying, that that 0:15:31.120 --> 0:15:35.000 connection is is vital and human. Well, it really does 0:15:35.200 --> 0:15:37.600 ask you to think about something that that becomes more 0:15:37.680 --> 0:15:40.280 profound the more you think about it. What is the 0:15:40.480 --> 0:15:43.280 inherent value of nature? And this is something we'll come 0:15:43.320 --> 0:15:46.080 back to as we discuss more about the movie later 0:15:46.160 --> 0:15:49.840 on in the episode, But we often today think about 0:15:50.040 --> 0:15:54.560 environmental conservation in terms of the material benefits to humans 0:15:54.760 --> 0:15:58.440 provided by the by environmental conservation, you you don't want 0:15:58.480 --> 0:16:01.680 to destroy natural habitats, you don't want to deforce the 0:16:01.760 --> 0:16:03.760 landscape and all that kind of stuff, because it does 0:16:03.840 --> 0:16:06.680 lots of bad things when you know they're they're cascading 0:16:06.800 --> 0:16:10.120 negative effects throughout the world when you do that. Um. 0:16:10.520 --> 0:16:13.400 But there there's also a deeper questions, like what if 0:16:13.480 --> 0:16:16.120 there was just one forest left and a dome out 0:16:16.160 --> 0:16:19.400 in space and it wouldn't affect anybody on Earth, whether 0:16:19.520 --> 0:16:22.280 or not that dome state alive, would you fight to 0:16:22.360 --> 0:16:28.120 save that forest? Does the forest have value in itself? Anyway? 0:16:28.160 --> 0:16:30.480 We can return to that. So I thought maybe we 0:16:30.520 --> 0:16:34.440 should explore the sort of pure scientific question of growing 0:16:34.560 --> 0:16:37.040 plants in space. Could you grow a forest in space 0:16:37.160 --> 0:16:40.480 inside the geodesic dome on a space ship? If so, 0:16:40.720 --> 0:16:42.960 how would you do it? And do scientists who think 0:16:43.000 --> 0:16:46.320 about space colonization take this idea seriously? What kind of 0:16:46.440 --> 0:16:49.520 challenges do they expect? So, just because it's a recent 0:16:49.600 --> 0:16:51.400 example that I read about, I want to talk for 0:16:51.440 --> 0:16:53.720 a minute about the the Chinese moon lander. I hope 0:16:53.760 --> 0:16:55.360 I want to pronounce this right. I think it's the 0:16:55.480 --> 0:16:59.520 chung U for yes, this is named for the goddess 0:16:59.560 --> 0:17:03.840 who who resides on the moon, uh, the the wife 0:17:03.920 --> 0:17:06.399 of the great Archer. Right. So, the the archer Ye 0:17:06.760 --> 0:17:09.720 shoots down the nine surplus sons, leaving just the one son. 0:17:09.800 --> 0:17:12.800 As a result, he gets the elixir of immortality and 0:17:12.880 --> 0:17:15.760 his wife, Chunga is I think there are different versions 0:17:15.800 --> 0:17:17.440 of the story about how she drinks it, but she 0:17:17.560 --> 0:17:19.760 ends up drinking it and then goes to the Moon 0:17:19.880 --> 0:17:23.680 to live there. Um And so of course that's that's 0:17:23.680 --> 0:17:25.439 a good name for a lunar lander, right, And there 0:17:25.480 --> 0:17:27.600 have been four of these, now, these these four different 0:17:27.720 --> 0:17:30.760 lunar missions from the Chinese Space Program. This is the 0:17:30.800 --> 0:17:33.880 fourth in the series, and in January of twenty nineteen, 0:17:34.040 --> 0:17:37.280 the Changa four lander set down on the far side 0:17:37.280 --> 0:17:39.359 of the Moon, at the side that always faces away 0:17:39.400 --> 0:17:41.960 from the Earth, of course, because the Moon is tidally locked. 0:17:42.359 --> 0:17:45.639 So it landed in this massive impact basin on the 0:17:45.760 --> 0:17:49.000 far side of the Moon called the South Pole Aitken Basin, 0:17:49.359 --> 0:17:53.560 specifically within a crater called Von Carmen. And one of 0:17:53.640 --> 0:17:57.879 the experiments brought along on the Chongo four mission was 0:17:58.040 --> 0:18:03.200 a biological payload of cotton seeds inside a tiny biosphere 0:18:03.520 --> 0:18:08.200 which was supplied with soil, water, a small contained atmosphere chamber, 0:18:08.560 --> 0:18:12.320 and a heater, and after the spacecraft landed, the seeds hatched, 0:18:12.560 --> 0:18:15.479 and the Chinese Space Program even published a little photo 0:18:15.920 --> 0:18:18.399 from the inside of the chamber with green sprouts on 0:18:18.520 --> 0:18:21.320 the far side of the moon. And it's pretty cool. 0:18:21.359 --> 0:18:23.280 I've got a picture here for you to look at, Robert. 0:18:23.440 --> 0:18:25.920 It looks like a little jungle of spinach underneath the 0:18:25.960 --> 0:18:29.359 plastic net. Yeah, and then the plastic net kind of 0:18:29.440 --> 0:18:32.480 looks like one of the domes from the from Silent 0:18:32.560 --> 0:18:35.800 Running Clear Bias. But of course it was not to be. 0:18:35.960 --> 0:18:38.119 It would not last very long. The heater in the 0:18:38.680 --> 0:18:41.119 little biosphere did not hold out, and so when the 0:18:41.320 --> 0:18:43.120 night set in on the far side of the moon. 0:18:43.200 --> 0:18:45.320 Of course, the moon has you know, longer days and 0:18:45.440 --> 0:18:47.960 night cycles because of its tidal locking with the Earth. 0:18:48.520 --> 0:18:50.240 When the nights set in on the far side of 0:18:50.280 --> 0:18:53.760 the moon, local temperatures reached about negative fifty two degrees 0:18:53.840 --> 0:18:57.520 celsius from negative sixty two degrees fahrenheit, and the cotton 0:18:57.560 --> 0:19:00.200 sprouts froze and died about a week after or the 0:19:00.280 --> 0:19:03.399 experiment began. And furthermore, the Chinese media reported that the 0:19:03.440 --> 0:19:06.879 cotton seeds were not the only species within the biosphere 0:19:07.000 --> 0:19:11.920 which also contained rape seed potato A rabbidopsis, which is 0:19:11.960 --> 0:19:15.400 a brassica plant that is often deployed in space missions 0:19:15.480 --> 0:19:19.719 and uh experiments with growing plants beyond Earth, as well 0:19:19.800 --> 0:19:23.560 as fruit flies and yeast, and apparently nothing except the 0:19:23.640 --> 0:19:26.440 cotton registered any growth. So it can be hard to 0:19:26.520 --> 0:19:28.879 grow life in space. And and this was in a 0:19:28.960 --> 0:19:32.760 sealed container on the relatively nearby Moon. Like, wouldn't the 0:19:32.840 --> 0:19:35.119 problem get even harder if you're talking about trying to 0:19:35.200 --> 0:19:39.040 grow a whole ecosystem, an entire forest in a ship 0:19:39.359 --> 0:19:42.359 in deep space. It seems like an almost impossible problem, 0:19:42.520 --> 0:19:44.560 right right, Yeah. And of course in silent running like 0:19:44.680 --> 0:19:48.320 we begin with the forest being situated further away from 0:19:48.440 --> 0:19:51.560 the planet, and then developments in the plot just lead 0:19:51.640 --> 0:19:55.960 it to greater distances exactly. So the Chung of four 0:19:56.080 --> 0:19:59.040 experiment was by no means the first attempt to grow 0:19:59.160 --> 0:20:01.880 plants beyond Earth. I think it was the first attempt 0:20:01.920 --> 0:20:04.480 to grow them on the Moon. There have been many 0:20:04.600 --> 0:20:07.440 experiments over the decades with growing plants in space. Lots 0:20:07.480 --> 0:20:12.200 of early space missions involved simply carrying seeds into space 0:20:12.400 --> 0:20:14.760 and then bringing them back to Earth to see if 0:20:14.760 --> 0:20:17.440 they would grow normally. I think there was concern about 0:20:17.480 --> 0:20:21.440 how primarily radiation, but perhaps other space conditions, maybe micro 0:20:21.560 --> 0:20:24.320 gravity and so forth, how these would affect the seeds, 0:20:24.400 --> 0:20:26.160 you know, would they grow normally if you just brought 0:20:26.200 --> 0:20:28.520 them back and planted them. And in general, the seeds 0:20:28.600 --> 0:20:31.360 taken into space seem completely unaffected. You bring them home 0:20:31.400 --> 0:20:34.280 and they're fine. In fact, all throughout the United States 0:20:34.400 --> 0:20:37.840 you can visit so called moon trees. These are trees 0:20:38.040 --> 0:20:41.520 planted in public spaces from seeds that were taken into 0:20:41.640 --> 0:20:45.280 orbit around the Moon by the Apollo fourteen command module, 0:20:45.600 --> 0:20:47.480 and they grew fine. You can actually like look up 0:20:47.560 --> 0:20:49.159 lists of these and see if you can visit a 0:20:49.240 --> 0:20:52.080 moon tree near you. But the first plants actually grown 0:20:52.520 --> 0:20:56.280 from seeds in space were of the species A rabbit 0:20:56.359 --> 0:20:59.840 Opsis thaliana, which is one of the same plants that 0:21:00.080 --> 0:21:02.720 Chinese lander brought this year, but which did not sprout. 0:21:03.200 --> 0:21:06.119 And this was aboard the Russian space station the Salute 0:21:06.200 --> 0:21:09.720 in nineteen two, and since then lots of plant experiments 0:21:09.760 --> 0:21:13.960 have been conducted, and astronauts regularly experiment with cultivating plants 0:21:14.000 --> 0:21:16.320 on the I S S. So I guess the question 0:21:16.440 --> 0:21:18.800 is what have we learned from all these experiments? What's 0:21:18.800 --> 0:21:21.840 it like to grow plants in space? So a few 0:21:21.880 --> 0:21:25.360 takeaways as noted by Dr Anna Lisa Paul, an investigator 0:21:25.440 --> 0:21:29.879 on the Advanced Plant Experiment or APEX experiment UH number one. 0:21:29.960 --> 0:21:32.240 Of course, seeds taken into space and then return to 0:21:32.320 --> 0:21:35.960 Earth consistently grow and don't show any changes. But if 0:21:36.000 --> 0:21:39.280 you let the seeds germinate in space, there are differences 0:21:39.359 --> 0:21:42.280 in how they grow. At first, we expected, like the 0:21:42.400 --> 0:21:46.520 trophic patterns, that the growth patterns in plant development to 0:21:46.760 --> 0:21:50.520 be different because of gravity. Right, you would think that 0:21:50.800 --> 0:21:53.800 the well gravity pulls the roots down and that's how 0:21:53.880 --> 0:21:57.080 they know to grow downward. But actually that's not entirely 0:21:57.160 --> 0:21:59.520 what we find. Some experiments have found that that some 0:21:59.680 --> 0:22:04.040 plant are extremely sensitive to even very very tiny amounts 0:22:04.080 --> 0:22:07.840 of gravity and can detect very very weak gravitational fields 0:22:08.280 --> 0:22:11.000 and be manipulated by them. But also plants tend to 0:22:11.119 --> 0:22:13.879 just grow toward light, with their roots generally growing in 0:22:13.960 --> 0:22:17.400 the opposite direction from the light, but with individual patterns 0:22:17.480 --> 0:22:21.440 determined by their genes. Also, the directionality of light is 0:22:21.560 --> 0:22:25.160 very important and determining growth patterns for plants in space. 0:22:25.280 --> 0:22:28.800