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Speaker 2: Welcome to the Bloomberg Markets Podcast. I'm Paul Sweeney alongside

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Speaker 2: my co host Matt Miller.

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Speaker 1: Every business day we bring you interviews from CEOs, market pros,

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Speaker 1: and Bloomberg experts, along with essential market movin news.

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Speaker 2: I'm the Bloomberg Markets podcast called Apple Podcasts or wherever

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Speaker 2: you listen to podcasts, and at Bloomberg dot com Slash podcast.

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Speaker 3: A lot going on across Wall Street. One of the

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Speaker 3: things that's going on, in particular to City Group, the

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Speaker 3: company is shutting down. It's muni business that was once

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Speaker 3: the envy of rivals, and right now to discuss that.

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Speaker 3: We are going to be talking with Bloomberg Finance team

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Speaker 3: leader Sally Bakewell, who has been leading the coverage all

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Speaker 3: over everything developing with City. Sally just kind of give

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Speaker 3: us a thirty thousand foot look of what this means

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Speaker 3: for City Group. As our CEO, Jane Fraser, still continues

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Speaker 3: to reshape the company in its operations.

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Speaker 4: Right, well, it means a lot of this City Group

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Speaker 4: and it means a lot for the muni market there

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Speaker 4: because City had really dominated that four trillion space of

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Speaker 4: underwriting local and state debt for most of the past decade.

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Speaker 4: In fact, it ranked among the two biggest of municipal

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Speaker 4: bond underwriters by volume. It's been on deals like the

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Speaker 4: rebuilding of the World Trade Center, on rebuilding the portal

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Speaker 4: authorities of New York and New Jersey. But as City

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Speaker 4: has struggled in recent years through a number of issues

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Speaker 4: and including it sort of ability to deliver returns and

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Speaker 4: meet financial goals. And so Jane Fraser, who has been

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Speaker 4: at the helm for a number of years, her border

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Speaker 4: aim is to make City a bank that you know

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Speaker 4: serves large multinational corporations but also improves returns which have

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Speaker 4: been trailing. So I think the muni business became incompatible

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Speaker 4: with that goal for a number of reasons. I think

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Speaker 4: a big one being that Hexas is the biggest state

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Speaker 4: for muni bond sales. But City, owing to firearms policies,

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Speaker 4: got frozen out of a number of big deals there

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Speaker 4: and that did crimp a lot of its revenue and

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Speaker 4: ability to generate profits. And I think deliberations continued for

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Speaker 4: a number of months over this big decision, and they have,

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Speaker 4: you know, decided that it would be better for City,

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Speaker 4: which is undergoing a number of restructurings in other areas,

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Speaker 4: if it was out of this market.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, the almost the impeach, well, I guess it was

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Speaker 5: in peach. It wasn't really, but the Attorney generaler Ken

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Speaker 5: Paxton is kind of in charge of that, taking aim

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Speaker 5: at all the big underwriters, all the money center banks

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Speaker 5: that have policies with which he disagrees by freezing them

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Speaker 5: out of that market. The end result was that it's

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Speaker 5: taxpayers who fit the bill because they don't get the

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Speaker 5: best pricing for their munis. Is there anybody around to

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Speaker 5: pick up the slack or are other banks facing the

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Speaker 5: same situation? Is anybody going to be left.

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Speaker 6: Oh.

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Speaker 4: I think the scrutiny is definitely there on all of

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Speaker 4: the banks, but I think there are banks who are

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Speaker 4: picking up the slack. In fact, a team of from

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Speaker 4: City actually defected to Jeffries just in November after news

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Speaker 4: that City was weighing pulling out.

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Speaker 5: They saw the writing on the wall.

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Speaker 4: I think the writing has been on the wall for

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Speaker 4: a little while. In fact, City also shut the its

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Speaker 4: muni prop trading desk not too long ago, which that

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Speaker 4: was the desk that used the firm's own cash to

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Speaker 4: trade and invest in the debt, and that has now

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Speaker 4: translated to a complete wind down of the business by

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Speaker 4: the end of the first quarter. But you know, City

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Speaker 4: ranked number seven in terms of muni bond sale underwriting.

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Speaker 4: Bank of America is first, RBC Capital Markets is second.

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Speaker 4: Then you of course have the likes of JP Morgan,

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Speaker 4: Jeffrey's Morgan, Stanley, Wills Fargo. So in terms of picking

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Speaker 4: up the slack, there is still very much a market there.

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Speaker 7: I think.

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Speaker 4: You know, for City, it represented at one time, you know,

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Speaker 4: a very significant business and also the ability of the

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Speaker 4: bank to connect to the country on a broader, sort

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Speaker 4: of deeper level because it was providing financing for you know, schools, hospitals,

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Speaker 4: railroad and so on. And that's an important thing for

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Speaker 4: a bank to do and to be seen to be doing.

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Speaker 3: And sally, just for a sense of how crucial munis are.

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Speaker 3: What how does immunis play into the broader business for

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Speaker 3: these banks in terms of generating fees? Just looking at

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Speaker 3: the league table that you guys have in the chart,

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Speaker 3: Bank of America with an almost thirteen percent market share

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Speaker 3: at forty four billion dollars of volume, how does that

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Speaker 3: compare two things like IPOs and M and A and

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Speaker 3: actually generating fees for these big banks.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I think it's a very substantial part of what

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Speaker 4: any any bank that's involved in the market does. I mean,

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Speaker 4: there is an sort of unending s figot of material

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Speaker 4: and deals to work on if you're in the in

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Speaker 4: the municipal space. So it is definitely a blow for

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Speaker 4: City that it was unable to really participate, for example,

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Speaker 4: in the Texas market specifically, and it's a big it's

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Speaker 4: a very substantial change for the company which historically had

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Speaker 4: been such a big player in this space going back decades.

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Speaker 4: But you know, City is currently going through a big

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Speaker 4: overhaul that it unveiled in September its biggest overhaul in decades,

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Speaker 4: where it's trying to refocus on five core areas. The

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Speaker 4: goal is to make it a leaner, more efficient organization,

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Speaker 4: to remove layers of management again with that broader, broader

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Speaker 4: aim of improving returns, and that is going to spark

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Speaker 4: a lot of change at the bank, which we've already

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Speaker 4: started to see. We know that there will be job cuts,

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Speaker 4: and there have already been some job cuts and we

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Speaker 4: can anticipate more next year. But yes, the goal is

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Speaker 4: to make City at a lina organization, and I think

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Speaker 4: focusing on more higher revenue, higher margin businesses is the

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Speaker 4: goal and Immunia business didn't quite align with that anymore.

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Speaker 3: Well, yeah, Sally, we had the news earlier in the

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Speaker 3: week from our colleagues in London about City offering partial

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Speaker 3: early bonuses amid this restructuring. So as you talk about

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Speaker 3: and look at what the path forward looks like, does

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Speaker 3: twenty twenty four actually look like for City Group to

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Speaker 3: rein in their spending and costs and also compete in

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Speaker 3: what still seems to be a very hot war for

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Speaker 3: talent on Wall Street, right, And.

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Speaker 4: That's a really good point to bring up the bonuses

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Speaker 4: with City, because yes, it offered a select number of

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Speaker 4: staff the ability to take a portion of their guaranteed

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Speaker 4: bonus now and leave rather than risk next year potentially

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Speaker 4: losing their jobs under this restructuring, but being left with

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Speaker 4: no job and no bonus. I think it kind of

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Speaker 4: underscores it's a fairly shocking move, you know, to basically

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Speaker 4: ask people to do this, And I think it underscores

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Speaker 4: the urgency with which Jane Fraser knows she has to

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Speaker 4: start to deliver. The bank had already tried to or

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Speaker 4: has nearly completed an exit of a number of its

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Speaker 4: global retail markets. And I think, you know, it's undertaken

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Speaker 4: other men to try and write the ship that perhaps

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Speaker 4: weren't deemed to be fully effective, and this latest overhaul

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Speaker 4: is a real attempt to show shareholders that it can

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Speaker 4: set financial targets and meet them, that it can improve returns.

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Speaker 4: And I think for twenty twenty four, actually things possibly

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Speaker 4: are looking fairly solid. We just had Mike Mayo, who

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Speaker 4: is the Wells Fargo very well known bank analyst. He

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Speaker 4: actually named City as his top pick among large cat

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Speaker 4: banks heading into twenty twenty four, replacing JP Morgan Chase

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Speaker 4: as his favorite. So, you know, he said he's been

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Speaker 4: long and wrong on City Group, but he thinks that

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Speaker 4: the restructuring is making them more simple, the management is addressing,

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Speaker 4: you know, two decade or problems at the banks, and

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Speaker 4: that it's seeming to get expenses under wraps. So perhaps

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Speaker 4: the subtotal of all of these measures in twenty twenty

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Speaker 4: four is when we do start to see them pay off.

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Speaker 5: Are going to see similar moves by other banks dropping

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Speaker 5: their municipal departments.

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Speaker 4: It's hard to say. I think it depends on the

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Speaker 4: level of scrutiny from Paxton. It will depend on the

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Speaker 4: economic viability of the business under that scrutiny. The other

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Speaker 4: banks don't have the same issues as City, though, they

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Speaker 4: don't have to make these dramatic moves to kind of

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Speaker 4: really reshape the organizations. So that I think is why

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Speaker 4: City was slightly unique in feeling the impact of the

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Speaker 4: situation in Texas and having to weigh up the viability

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Speaker 4: of its business. It is doing this against this backdrop of,

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Speaker 4: as Mike mos said, a decades long sort of problem

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Speaker 4: at the bank of not being able to generate the

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Speaker 4: kind of returns that the other banks were able to

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Speaker 4: do so. I think there will be under scrutiny, but

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Speaker 4: they probably won't feel that need to act in the

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Speaker 4: same way that city has.

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Speaker 5: City dropping its municipal business. Sally bankwell with the story

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Speaker 5: for Bloomberg News. Sally, thanks very much, appreciate your time.

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Speaker 8: You're listening to the team. Can's a live program Bloomberg

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Speaker 8: Markets weekdays at ten am Eastern on Bloomberg dot Com,

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Speaker 8: the iHeartRadio app and the Bloomberg Business App, or listen

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Speaker 5: Making the energy transition no easy tasks as we try

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Speaker 5: to decarbonize utilities across the United States. Let's bring in

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Speaker 5: our next guest. Maria Pope is the CEO of Portland

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Speaker 5: General Electric. We got a picture of just how difficult

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Speaker 5: that transition is. I think it was today or yesterday

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Speaker 5: with California the governor there in his attempts to recommission

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Speaker 5: the Diablo Nuclear Power Plant Diablo Canyon because they need it. Basically,

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Speaker 5: they can't just do it alone with renewable sources. So Maria,

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Speaker 5: what is the timeline for you guys with your utility,

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Speaker 5: Portland General Electric to decarbonize and are on track at

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Speaker 5: this point.

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Speaker 9: So we're looking to decarbonize the energy supply eighty percent

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Speaker 9: by twenty thirty and then net zero by twenty forty.

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Speaker 9: Obviously we'll need new technologies by twenty forty, but we

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Speaker 9: are on track with forty percent of our customer's energy

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Speaker 9: coming from renewable sources today.

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Speaker 3: And with that technology transition, is that developed in house,

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Speaker 3: are you licensing it from startups or kind of how

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Speaker 3: does that play out?

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Speaker 9: It really comes from a variety of sources, first legacy hydro,

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Speaker 9: then we take solar and wind, battery storage. We have

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Speaker 9: the second largest installation of battery storage outside of California

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Speaker 9: taking place right now, and we use a lot of

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Speaker 9: technologies to integrate all of those renewables for safe, reliable, affordable,

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Speaker 9: clean energy for our customers.

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Speaker 5: Hey, Maria, just how vulnerable is your utility to droughts?

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Speaker 5: You mentioned hydro power and even wildfires with the transmission lines.

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Speaker 9: You know, it's something a lot of people ask. We're

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Speaker 9: in actually a drought period right now in the Pacific Northwest,

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Speaker 9: and we've actually been relying a lot more on energy

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Speaker 9: from markets outside of this region. Much of that is

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Speaker 9: renewable solar and other sources. That come into this area,

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Speaker 9: but also being able to construct new wind resources, new

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Speaker 9: solar resources is augmenting our legacy Hydro. As we look

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Speaker 9: going forward, we will need ever increasing amounts of renewable energy,

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Speaker 9: which are today price competitive with other sources.

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Speaker 3: And how much does that cost? What's your capex looking

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Speaker 3: like to make some of these investments.

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Speaker 9: You know, we have taken our investment up over time,

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Speaker 9: and in the last three years, our invested asset base

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Speaker 9: has actually grown about thirty percent overall. Our revenues are

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Speaker 9: also up about thirty seven percent. As we see customer growth.

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Speaker 9: We have five percent more customers today than we did

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Speaker 9: three years ago, and they're using ten percent more energy.

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Speaker 5: In terms of the total return opportunity for the stock

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Speaker 5: based on the earnings per share. I mean, you guys

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Speaker 5: have been beaten up to some extent because of worries

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Speaker 5: over the things that we mentioned. Where do you hint from?

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Speaker 5: What's your message to investors at this point?

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Speaker 9: You know, we're committed to growing at five to seven percent.

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Speaker 9: We've been leaders actually in addressing wildfire. While one can

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Speaker 9: never predict what will happen, we've invested tremendously in reducing

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Speaker 9: those risks. And again are committed to the five percent

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Speaker 9: earnings growth projectory.

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Speaker 3: And when you look at expectations for twenty twenty four

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Speaker 3: and even beyond, looking at some of the energy transition

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Speaker 3: mission there or goals that you guys have in the

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Speaker 3: state of Oregon and really broadly around the world has

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Speaker 3: laid out, how does that How does twenty twenty four

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Speaker 3: look for your business?

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Speaker 9: You know, twenty twenty four looks really good. We actually

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Speaker 9: will see revenues probably about fourteen to fifteen percent higher

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Speaker 9: year on years we turn into twenty twenty four. I'd

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Speaker 9: also say that we're focused on meeting our customers' needs,

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Speaker 9: whereas the largest semiconductors and global manufacturers to small startups

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Speaker 9: and over two million residential customers who are focused on

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Speaker 9: the clean energy transformation and ensuring that we do so

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Speaker 9: with a smart integrated grid.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, as we make that transition, I mean, overall the

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Speaker 5: grids in the United States, are they prepared for all this?

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Speaker 5: And what sort of infrastructure upgrades do they need? And

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Speaker 5: you know, are you getting any help from the Biden

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Speaker 5: administration on that front.

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Speaker 9: So we've been investing in grid technologies as well as

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Speaker 9: infrastructure for a long time, where the fourth largest electric

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Speaker 9: vehicle market is an example, and have been thinking about

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Speaker 9: those new technologies for years. From the Biden administration, We're

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Speaker 9: very fortunate to have received several very significant grand one

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Speaker 9: in particular around technology is a partnership with Nvidia and

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Speaker 9: the startup Utili Data, the three of us coming together

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Speaker 9: and bringing our unique capabilities to deliver for customers, to

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Speaker 9: grow earnings, and to ensure really a solid clean energy

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Speaker 9: future is attainable in a very short period of time.

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Speaker 5: That sounds like the intersection of artificial.

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Speaker 3: Bringing an AI. It's everything. I well, I guess this

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Speaker 3: is my question, Maria. We've been talking about this transition

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Speaker 3: and we've seen some things happen. I guess are you

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Speaker 3: surprised with where we are going into twenty twenty four,

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Speaker 3: with how quickly or slowly things have evolved? And do

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Speaker 3: you expect that to kind of pick up in the

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Speaker 3: coming years.

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Speaker 9: You know, it's interesting. We're very optimistic about the future.

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Speaker 9: I mean, when we come together in partnership, we're able

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Speaker 9: to do great things. And the acceleration of clean energy

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Speaker 9: has been remarkable not only for our company but across

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Speaker 9: the entire United States and really globally. But we'll see

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Speaker 9: coming out of There's no question that this will continue

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Speaker 9: to accelerate and then we'll work together on new technologies.

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Speaker 9: One of the other grants that we received was part

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Speaker 9: of the Northwest Hydrogen a billion dollars to invest in hydrogen.

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Speaker 9: And then we also have received two hundred and fifty

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Speaker 9: million dollars on a consortium with the Confederated Tribes of

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Speaker 9: the Warm Springs where we have worked together with them

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Speaker 9: co owning a four hundred and fifty megawatt facility hydro

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Speaker 9: power that we will now be able to increase the

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Speaker 9: transmission with a two hundred and fifty million dollars grant

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Speaker 9: enabling further renewable energy development on the reservation for the

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Speaker 9: benefit of the future employment of the tribes as well

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Speaker 9: as renewable energy across the state.

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Speaker 5: Is climate change the far and away the biggest risk

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Speaker 5: or that you face in the future.

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Speaker 9: Oh, I think we were facing a lot of risk

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Speaker 9: as we go through a transformation. Clearly, we're using technologies,

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Speaker 9: we're changing at a pace that is unusual for utilities

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Speaker 9: but very exciting, and so as we manage everything from

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Speaker 9: a changing and warming climate to changing expectations by customers

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Speaker 9: to new technologies at what ares Managing risks is also

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Speaker 9: managing opportunities.

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Speaker 5: Ria Pleasure, Thanks for stopping by. Appreciate it. Maria Poulp,

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Speaker 5: the CEO of a Portnam General Electric, the ticker symbol

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Speaker 5: por and as they look at it right now among

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Speaker 5: the analysts, seven buys, five holes, and zero sales. The

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Speaker 5: average price target for the stock, according to data compiled

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Speaker 5: by Bloomberg, forty eight dollars per Sure.

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Speaker 3: Just recently got upgraded this week over at Barclays talking

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Speaker 3: about the upside and despite it being a wildfire stock,

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Speaker 3: they kind of point out that we're exiting wildfire season,

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Speaker 3: and as someone who's spent the first eighteen years of

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Speaker 3: my life in California, were season is the thing.

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Speaker 8: You're listening to The tape cats a our live program,

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Speaker 8: Bloomberg Markets weekdays at ten am Eastern on Bloomberg Radio,

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Speaker 8: the tune in app, Bloomberg dot Com, and the Bloomberg Business.

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Speaker 8: You can also listen live on Amazon Alexa from our

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Speaker 8: flagship New York station, Just say Alexa, play Bloomberg eleven thirty.

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Speaker 5: Let's switch to fixed income right now. Alex Batrand, our

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Speaker 5: next guest, the director of Fixed Income at Rockefeller Asset Management.

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Speaker 5: I missed out on five percent, But is what are

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Speaker 5: we looking at four forty one or three ninety two

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Speaker 5: right now in the ten are those screaming buys?

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Speaker 7: I mean three ninety two is the new five percent?

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Speaker 8: Right?

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Speaker 7: Isn't that how we we shift?

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Speaker 10: And if you want spicy and not sleepy into the

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Speaker 10: end of the year, that is what we have right now.

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Speaker 7: Quite clearly, rates drive in the market. The FED FOMC. J.

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Speaker 10: Powell Williams happy to unpack that, making it fun for

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Speaker 10: us into your act.

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Speaker 5: With all That'speiag and Williams today, I mean, how do

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Speaker 5: you set strategy with all these different narratives out there?

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Speaker 6: Yeah?

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Speaker 7: Absolutely great question.

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Speaker 10: I mean, we are long term investors have said for

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Speaker 10: quite some time as we think about what was driving

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Speaker 10: markets in twenty twenty three, it was the rate story

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Speaker 10: driving Muni's driving Corporus in twenty twenty four. That is

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Speaker 10: going to be no different from here. The message is

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Speaker 10: quite clear this week from the FED, even with Williams today.

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Speaker 10: Williams came in and tried to walk back some of

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Speaker 10: this dubvish interpretation of what was a dubvish meeting. Three

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Speaker 10: cuts instead of two. Many people were caught off guards

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Speaker 10: by that.

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Speaker 5: The view from me, he was walking it back at

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Speaker 5: the instructions of mister Powell. He was walking in the

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Speaker 5: instructions from.

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Speaker 7: Someone or he's a loose canon.

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Speaker 10: Whether that is the case is not for us to

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Speaker 10: necessarily try to decide. But if you unpack what Williams

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Speaker 10: said is he said that we are not talking about

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Speaker 10: cuts right now. That doesn't mean that they're not talking

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Speaker 10: about cuts.

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Speaker 7: So when you look at the summary of.

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Speaker 10: Economic projections, the dot pot, what does it tell us?

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Speaker 10: It tells us three cuts, doesn't tell us when. And

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Speaker 10: so the market feels like it got a little bit

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Speaker 10: of itself pricing in sick. Some people calling for March,

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Speaker 10: some people calling for June. What the FED is telling

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Speaker 10: us is they are comfortable with this level of employment.

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Speaker 3: But how how independent will the FED be in an

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Speaker 3: election year, in a year where there's expectations that looking

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Speaker 3: at the.

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Speaker 5: World, Oh, it's that fantasy.

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Speaker 10: I mean, well, listen, we are here to think about

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Speaker 10: market volatility relative value. I can have many cocktail discussions

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Speaker 10: around the independence of the FED. That is a fun

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Speaker 10: topic to really go down a rabbit hole. Or maybe

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Speaker 10: Abigail mentioned Twitter. I'm sure there's plenty of things there.

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Speaker 10: Our goal simply is, to your point, John three ninety two,

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Speaker 10: relative value or not fair value.

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Speaker 7: And what we start to look at is where do we.

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Speaker 10: See the trend line over the next three months, six months,

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Speaker 10: twelve months across the rates market? And then most importantly,

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Speaker 10: how is that going to impact a municipal market on

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Speaker 10: a go forward basis?

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Speaker 5: How is it going to be impact market on a

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Speaker 5: EKO forward?

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Speaker 10: Thank you for letting me continue that. I think from

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Speaker 10: our perspective it's quite simple. Ratios continue to matter here.

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Speaker 10: With this move lower in rates, you have a tremendous

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Speaker 10: amount of demand that's come back into the market. So

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Speaker 10: we look at rates, we look at technical supply and

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Speaker 10: demand supply driven by new issuers stepping into the market,

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Speaker 10: supply driven by whether retail is a net buyer net seller,

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Speaker 10: retail is stepped back in there a net buyer.

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Speaker 5: Tangential to that? Can I just ask go quick with

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Speaker 5: the city group story dropping of their municipal department, how

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Speaker 5: looney is the municipal market getting when you take into

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Speaker 5: context the whole ken Paxton, Texas thing.

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Speaker 10: Another key risk factor that we really think about is

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Speaker 10: liquidity dynamics in the municipal market. What you've seen since

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Speaker 10: my early days PREGFC till now is this consolidation of

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Speaker 10: desks across the street. When we look at that as

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Speaker 10: the dealer community shrinks, it is a really fortunate thing

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Speaker 10: for the UNI market. For investors. Liquidity dynamics change. There

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Speaker 10: is more friction in those periods of mentioning technicals where

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Speaker 10: there are outflow cycles and you have fewer people stepping

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Speaker 10: in to provide liquidity. It can create some more challenges

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Speaker 10: for those who need liquidity. It can create a lot

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Speaker 10: more opportunities for those who are looking to be the

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Speaker 10: source of liquidity. So while we don't like to see it,

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Speaker 10: it's looking through that and really emphasizing managing the liquidity.

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Speaker 5: For a new homeowner like Bailey. It's just like probably

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Speaker 5: means is taxes are going to go up at some point.

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Speaker 5: I mean it's right if you're having trouble doing these

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Speaker 5: deals or having an underwriter and the market is impacted

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Speaker 5: that way, ultimately it's going to be more expensive gas.

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Speaker 7: You know, Let's make no mistake.

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Speaker 10: If you look at the market yesterday, you have issues

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Speaker 10: that are there. They are able to bring deals Illinois

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Speaker 10: toll example, yesh Day fifteen to twenty times over subscribed

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Speaker 10: spreads were half of what they were back in April

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Speaker 10: when they brought a deal.

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Speaker 7: You will still see deals being brought.

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Speaker 10: I expect issuance picks up materially heading into next year,

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Speaker 10: both in terms of corporate risk as well as muni

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Speaker 10: risk because guess what, the FED has just made it

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Speaker 10: a much better entry point. These deals will get done.

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Speaker 10: It will just continue to be consolidated from here.

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Speaker 3: Well how much I guess how quickly does the FED

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Speaker 3: need to cut for some of those deals to come

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Speaker 3: to market or does that not matter as much?

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Speaker 10: Well, they're coming now, right, We're seeing it. We're seeing

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Speaker 10: deals that are added to the calendar. Abigail was talking

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Speaker 10: about a sleepy week we in the municipal market. We

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Speaker 10: hope that next week we can catch up on all

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Speaker 10: the work that we didn't necessarily do, you know, maybe

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Speaker 10: trade on the margins. There are deals that are stepping

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Speaker 10: in that weren't on the calendar. In particular, it's really

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Speaker 10: across the board. We're seeing healthcare, we're seeing general obligation risk.

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Speaker 10: It is deals that we're tagged to come at some

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Speaker 10: point likely in the first quarter, first half of next year,

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Speaker 10: and they're saying, let's do it today based on what

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Speaker 10: we're seeing at the moment. So regardless, even prior to

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Speaker 10: the FMC call it pivot towards a softer tone, we

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Speaker 10: expected that issuance was going to pick up in twenty

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Speaker 10: twenty four, somewhere to the twoe of four hundred and

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Speaker 10: fifty billion or so.

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Speaker 5: I'm not exaggerating when I say this, but I get

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Speaker 5: in the mail now at least it seems like once

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Speaker 5: a month a letter from I don't know, some firms

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Speaker 5: saying you know we represent well. In my instance, my

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Speaker 5: healthcare provider Robert Wood Johnson Hospitals, saying you know they've

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Speaker 5: been hacked. We don't think your personal information, but we're

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Speaker 5: not sure. In the meantime, you should really monitor your credit. Well,

440
00:24:37,440 --> 00:24:42,119
Speaker 5: no kidding, is that. Let's talk about cybersecurity risk, where

441
00:24:42,160 --> 00:24:45,359
Speaker 5: it figures into your business and how important it is.

442
00:24:45,520 --> 00:24:47,720
Speaker 10: Yeah, when we think about risks that are forming in

443
00:24:47,760 --> 00:24:50,560
Speaker 10: the municipal market, we think near term risks, so balance

444
00:24:50,560 --> 00:24:55,679
Speaker 10: sheet pressures, rising costs, declining revenues, all of those things

445
00:24:55,720 --> 00:24:57,600
Speaker 10: you're seeing. But then we think longer term as well,

446
00:24:57,720 --> 00:25:00,760
Speaker 10: cybersecurity risk is one that's on that is on our radar,

447
00:25:01,080 --> 00:25:04,159
Speaker 10: no different than companies that are facing these same pressures.

448
00:25:03,760 --> 00:25:05,720
Speaker 7: And so we like to look towards our.

449
00:25:05,680 --> 00:25:11,200
Speaker 10: Municipalities taking the necessary steps today to really protect data, integritory,

450
00:25:11,440 --> 00:25:15,720
Speaker 10: financial SYSM scary stuff, John Ransom. Ransom, you don't want

451
00:25:15,720 --> 00:25:17,560
Speaker 10: to think about that. When it comes to UNI credit,

452
00:25:17,760 --> 00:25:19,760
Speaker 10: we agree they are not. It's a question of as

453
00:25:19,800 --> 00:25:22,159
Speaker 10: these things, excuse me, we don't agree that they are not.

454
00:25:22,359 --> 00:25:26,440
Speaker 10: Many are, But it's looking through to ensure that issuers

455
00:25:26,480 --> 00:25:29,720
Speaker 10: are taking the necessary steps today just as companies are

456
00:25:29,720 --> 00:25:30,280
Speaker 10: doing the same.

457
00:25:31,280 --> 00:25:35,359
Speaker 3: And how is looking through some of the notes climate risk.

458
00:25:35,520 --> 00:25:38,199
Speaker 3: We were talking to the CEO of Portland General Electric

459
00:25:38,320 --> 00:25:41,320
Speaker 3: earlier about some of the green transition. You look at

460
00:25:41,359 --> 00:25:45,320
Speaker 3: places like Florida and California where insurance companies are just leaving.

461
00:25:45,480 --> 00:25:47,320
Speaker 3: So how does that factor into the marketing?

462
00:25:47,400 --> 00:25:48,040
Speaker 7: You know, it's wild.

463
00:25:48,080 --> 00:25:50,399
Speaker 10: It's something that we've talked about quite a bit on

464
00:25:50,440 --> 00:25:53,679
Speaker 10: the desk, and as we think through bigger picture, longer term,

465
00:25:54,000 --> 00:25:57,760
Speaker 10: the frequency of events, the intensity of events, they are

466
00:25:57,760 --> 00:25:59,280
Speaker 10: going to get bigger, They're going to get larger. It

467
00:25:59,320 --> 00:26:01,239
Speaker 10: is going to put press are on bounce sheets. So

468
00:26:01,280 --> 00:26:06,160
Speaker 10: it's both some of the costs associated with rebuilding. State

469
00:26:06,240 --> 00:26:10,280
Speaker 10: and local governments will need to issue more debt, both

470
00:26:10,359 --> 00:26:15,840
Speaker 10: to shore up infrastructure, water resiliency rebuild, but also bigger picture,

471
00:26:15,880 --> 00:26:19,760
Speaker 10: long term, what's the biggest risk for Muni's out migration right,

472
00:26:19,760 --> 00:26:22,359
Speaker 10: look at Detroit, think of some of those examples, and

473
00:26:22,400 --> 00:26:24,680
Speaker 10: so as you think through it, I think the average

474
00:26:25,240 --> 00:26:29,119
Speaker 10: individual buying a home is not really thinking through the

475
00:26:29,119 --> 00:26:32,360
Speaker 10: climate rest long term big picture airs like Florida, at

476
00:26:32,359 --> 00:26:34,800
Speaker 10: some point people will and when that well.

477
00:26:34,720 --> 00:26:36,440
Speaker 5: They're going to think about it when they go there

478
00:26:36,440 --> 00:26:40,320
Speaker 5: and they can't get insurance homewards insurance, for instance. That's

479
00:26:40,320 --> 00:26:43,080
Speaker 5: happening everywhere, not just Florida.

480
00:26:42,600 --> 00:26:44,040
Speaker 10: And that's not always the case a lot of times

481
00:26:44,119 --> 00:26:45,440
Speaker 10: when people really think about it, and there was a

482
00:26:45,480 --> 00:26:48,240
Speaker 10: lot published on this topic earlier this year around insurance,

483
00:26:48,480 --> 00:26:50,720
Speaker 10: it's when the event happens to them.

484
00:26:51,400 --> 00:26:52,800
Speaker 7: So it's a little bit of hindsight.

485
00:26:53,280 --> 00:26:55,760
Speaker 5: Alex, that was great. I hope we didn't get too

486
00:26:55,760 --> 00:26:56,320
Speaker 5: far Afield.

487
00:26:56,320 --> 00:27:00,760
Speaker 10: If you're yeah, this is fantastic, Lively Friday, Alex Patrol,

488
00:27:00,960 --> 00:27:05,240
Speaker 10: the director of fixed income at Rockefeller Asset Management.

489
00:27:05,880 --> 00:27:09,000
Speaker 8: You're listening to the tape Cat's are live program Bloomberg

490
00:27:09,080 --> 00:27:12,679
Speaker 8: Markets weekdays at ten am Eastern on Bloomberg Radio, the

491
00:27:12,720 --> 00:27:15,960
Speaker 8: tune It app, Bloomberg dot Com, and the Bloomberg Business App.

492
00:27:16,000 --> 00:27:18,800
Speaker 8: You can also listen live on Amazon Alexa from our

493
00:27:18,840 --> 00:27:23,840
Speaker 8: flagship New York station. Just say Alexa play Bloomberg eleven thirty.

494
00:27:25,800 --> 00:27:28,040
Speaker 5: You know, it's been a tough one for Google as

495
00:27:28,080 --> 00:27:31,280
Speaker 5: of late. We had the story earlier this week about

496
00:27:31,320 --> 00:27:36,840
Speaker 5: their fight with Epic Games. They lost, but is their

497
00:27:36,840 --> 00:27:41,080
Speaker 5: trouble over. There's a tough, tough road ahead potentially. Let's

498
00:27:41,080 --> 00:27:43,920
Speaker 5: bring in our next guest. Jenrie is the senior litigation

499
00:27:44,440 --> 00:27:49,560
Speaker 5: analyst with Bloomberg Intelligence on the Anti Trust Watch. So

500
00:27:49,800 --> 00:27:53,080
Speaker 5: what's the panther the head for Google at this point

501
00:27:53,200 --> 00:27:54,560
Speaker 5: or should I say alphabet?

502
00:27:55,720 --> 00:27:58,119
Speaker 6: Well, John and Bailey. I think Google's going to have

503
00:27:58,160 --> 00:28:01,959
Speaker 6: a rough year next year. You know, first they've lost

504
00:28:02,160 --> 00:28:04,840
Speaker 6: with this jury trial on the play store side, and

505
00:28:04,920 --> 00:28:07,800
Speaker 6: the judge will be deciding what the appropriate remedy is

506
00:28:07,920 --> 00:28:11,400
Speaker 6: next year. Now there will appeal, and they have some

507
00:28:11,520 --> 00:28:15,240
Speaker 6: chances there given how different this was from Epics lawsuit

508
00:28:15,240 --> 00:28:18,480
Speaker 6: against Apple, But I don't really think that they're going

509
00:28:18,560 --> 00:28:21,320
Speaker 6: to win that appeal and be able to overturn this verdict.

510
00:28:21,359 --> 00:28:23,640
Speaker 6: It's a very high standard, So they're going to face

511
00:28:23,680 --> 00:28:26,320
Speaker 6: a remedy in that area. The other thing that's going

512
00:28:26,400 --> 00:28:28,520
Speaker 6: to happen is that there will be a verdict or

513
00:28:28,560 --> 00:28:31,679
Speaker 6: a ruling in the Department of Justices lawsuit against Google

514
00:28:31,800 --> 00:28:35,360
Speaker 6: that finished trial earlier this year over its search business

515
00:28:35,400 --> 00:28:38,480
Speaker 6: and whether or not it's maintaining a monopoly in Google Search.

516
00:28:38,880 --> 00:28:41,320
Speaker 6: And I think that decision is probably going to come

517
00:28:41,320 --> 00:28:45,440
Speaker 6: out maybe late first half, sometime in the second quarter.

518
00:28:46,280 --> 00:28:48,640
Speaker 6: And again I think that was a bit that's a

519
00:28:48,760 --> 00:28:51,040
Speaker 6: very close call, but I tend to lean toward the

520
00:28:51,080 --> 00:28:53,600
Speaker 6: DOJ winning that one. So they may also be looking

521
00:28:53,640 --> 00:28:57,080
Speaker 6: at a potential remedy imposed on their search business. Then

522
00:28:57,080 --> 00:29:00,000
Speaker 6: the third thing, which I actually think is the most important,

523
00:29:00,320 --> 00:29:02,840
Speaker 6: or I should say the riskiest lawsuit that Google's going

524
00:29:02,880 --> 00:29:05,960
Speaker 6: to face, is a Department of Justice suit that's challenging

525
00:29:05,960 --> 00:29:08,960
Speaker 6: its entire ad tech business, and that is in a

526
00:29:09,040 --> 00:29:12,000
Speaker 6: Virginia court that moves really fast and could possibly get

527
00:29:12,040 --> 00:29:14,760
Speaker 6: to trial toward the end of the first half of

528
00:29:14,840 --> 00:29:15,320
Speaker 6: next year.

529
00:29:15,920 --> 00:29:18,960
Speaker 5: How far does that go. It goes right up to

530
00:29:19,000 --> 00:29:19,800
Speaker 5: the Supreme Court.

531
00:29:20,120 --> 00:29:22,160
Speaker 6: Do you think, Well, they only go up to the

532
00:29:22,200 --> 00:29:25,560
Speaker 6: Supreme Court if there's anell. If there's an appeal and the

533
00:29:25,600 --> 00:29:28,000
Speaker 6: Supreme Court agrees to take the case, the Supreme Court

534
00:29:28,040 --> 00:29:30,440
Speaker 6: doesn't have to, and in fact, they actually only accept

535
00:29:30,680 --> 00:29:33,040
Speaker 6: a very small percentage of the cases that apply to

536
00:29:33,080 --> 00:29:36,640
Speaker 6: be heard. So I guess I'm assuming Google would appeal

537
00:29:36,720 --> 00:29:39,800
Speaker 6: anything that it loses. So these things could actually drag

538
00:29:39,840 --> 00:29:41,800
Speaker 6: out for a couple of years. But at the very least,

539
00:29:41,880 --> 00:29:44,040
Speaker 6: what it could see is some really bad headlines next

540
00:29:44,120 --> 00:29:46,840
Speaker 6: year that impact the stock. Because if they have losses

541
00:29:46,880 --> 00:29:49,479
Speaker 6: at the district court, while it's not over, because they

542
00:29:49,480 --> 00:29:52,560
Speaker 6: will appeal and it will continue on. You know, those

543
00:29:52,680 --> 00:29:54,720
Speaker 6: initial losses aren't a good thing.

544
00:29:55,040 --> 00:29:57,160
Speaker 3: And just to call out this week, Alphabet down two

545
00:29:57,160 --> 00:29:59,080
Speaker 3: and a half percent. That compares in a backdrop with

546
00:29:59,080 --> 00:30:01,520
Speaker 3: the NASDAC up three point four percent and the S

547
00:30:01,560 --> 00:30:03,400
Speaker 3: and p F two and a half percent. Jen just

548
00:30:03,480 --> 00:30:07,560
Speaker 3: wondering how much could this cost Google from a monetary standpoint,

549
00:30:08,080 --> 00:30:10,040
Speaker 3: given the number of cases ongoing.

550
00:30:10,800 --> 00:30:13,080
Speaker 6: Well, look, it's so hard to say so on the

551
00:30:13,120 --> 00:30:15,120
Speaker 6: search side. Let me start there, because I think it's

552
00:30:15,160 --> 00:30:18,200
Speaker 6: the easiest. I actually don't think even if they lose

553
00:30:18,200 --> 00:30:21,720
Speaker 6: on liability and there's a remedy imposed that it's really

554
00:30:21,800 --> 00:30:25,000
Speaker 6: going to impact them in any significant way because at

555
00:30:25,000 --> 00:30:28,200
Speaker 6: this point they're entrenched. I mean, people use Google Search.

556
00:30:28,760 --> 00:30:31,280
Speaker 6: Most people prefer Google Search to being or to Duck

557
00:30:31,360 --> 00:30:33,680
Speaker 6: Doc Go. And even if they're in a position where

558
00:30:33,720 --> 00:30:36,600
Speaker 6: they have to offer up choice screens, Let's say somebody

559
00:30:36,600 --> 00:30:39,000
Speaker 6: buys an Android device and they're using it for the

560
00:30:39,000 --> 00:30:41,360
Speaker 6: first time and they get to choose the default search

561
00:30:41,400 --> 00:30:45,760
Speaker 6: engine rather than Google just being automatically installed, or if

562
00:30:45,800 --> 00:30:48,040
Speaker 6: they have to sort of open up open up the

563
00:30:48,120 --> 00:30:52,040
Speaker 6: space to other competing search engines, people are still going

564
00:30:52,080 --> 00:30:54,840
Speaker 6: to use Google. So I'm not so sure that's whatever

565
00:30:54,920 --> 00:30:57,040
Speaker 6: happens there, it's going to hurt them very much. Now

566
00:30:57,080 --> 00:30:59,000
Speaker 6: in the play Store, it could hurt a lot more.

567
00:30:59,280 --> 00:31:01,080
Speaker 6: You know, they make a lot lot of revenues from

568
00:31:01,160 --> 00:31:04,760
Speaker 6: the fifteen to thirty percent commissions they charge to developers,

569
00:31:05,000 --> 00:31:08,479
Speaker 6: and that's really going to change if these remedies that

570
00:31:08,520 --> 00:31:11,440
Speaker 6: we expect stick, you know, if they don't win on appeal,

571
00:31:12,280 --> 00:31:15,160
Speaker 6: because they're no longer going to be able to keep

572
00:31:15,440 --> 00:31:19,920
Speaker 6: competing app distributors off Android devices, which means people can

573
00:31:19,960 --> 00:31:22,760
Speaker 6: download these apps outside of the play Store, and they're

574
00:31:22,800 --> 00:31:25,480
Speaker 6: also no longer probably going to be able to link

575
00:31:26,000 --> 00:31:29,480
Speaker 6: an app developer within the Play Store using Google's payment services,

576
00:31:29,520 --> 00:31:31,720
Speaker 6: which is how they collect those fees, and so I

577
00:31:31,720 --> 00:31:35,720
Speaker 6: think there will be an impact. They will obviously find

578
00:31:35,720 --> 00:31:37,920
Speaker 6: some other way probably to make up for that revenue

579
00:31:37,920 --> 00:31:42,000
Speaker 6: and charge developers for using their services. But if competition increases,

580
00:31:42,240 --> 00:31:44,000
Speaker 6: that alone is going to force them to push down

581
00:31:44,000 --> 00:31:46,120
Speaker 6: their commissions. So I think that one hurt.

582
00:31:46,280 --> 00:31:51,040
Speaker 5: This Department of Justice has been particularly aggressive in antitrust cases.

583
00:31:51,080 --> 00:31:55,640
Speaker 5: Can I say that absolutely? Why don't they just, like

584
00:31:55,760 --> 00:31:59,000
Speaker 5: you know, try to weigh out this administration and hope

585
00:31:59,000 --> 00:32:01,200
Speaker 5: for a change at the top.

586
00:32:02,280 --> 00:32:05,160
Speaker 6: You know, they very well could, because if they can

587
00:32:05,480 --> 00:32:07,880
Speaker 6: do whatever they can to drag their heels, you know,

588
00:32:08,000 --> 00:32:11,960
Speaker 6: they can appeal, they can try to slow those appeals down,

589
00:32:12,400 --> 00:32:14,960
Speaker 6: They can do those sorts of things to try to

590
00:32:15,040 --> 00:32:16,760
Speaker 6: drag it out. You know, if you think about it,

591
00:32:16,880 --> 00:32:20,120
Speaker 6: way back in two thousand, when Microsoft lost a really

592
00:32:20,120 --> 00:32:23,800
Speaker 6: big monopolization suit, they actually got out of it in

593
00:32:23,840 --> 00:32:27,680
Speaker 6: a sense because the administration changed George Bush became the president.

594
00:32:28,560 --> 00:32:31,320
Speaker 6: It was remanded to the district court, and in the meantime,

595
00:32:31,360 --> 00:32:35,160
Speaker 6: George Bush's administration settled the case, and so that kind

596
00:32:35,160 --> 00:32:38,120
Speaker 6: of thing does happen. Things change with administration, so certainly

597
00:32:38,160 --> 00:32:39,880
Speaker 6: they can try to do that. You know, I have

598
00:32:39,960 --> 00:32:41,920
Speaker 6: to tell you, John, I wonder all the time why

599
00:32:41,960 --> 00:32:44,280
Speaker 6: all these big deals I'm seeing get signed up don't

600
00:32:44,360 --> 00:32:47,960
Speaker 6: just wait, Because they're also aggressive when it comes to

601
00:32:48,080 --> 00:32:50,000
Speaker 6: challenging mergers and transactions.

602
00:32:50,600 --> 00:32:53,280
Speaker 3: And when you look at some of the antitrust battles

603
00:32:53,280 --> 00:32:55,560
Speaker 3: that Alphabet is working through, are there similar cases that

604
00:32:55,600 --> 00:32:57,920
Speaker 3: come to mind that you can kind of look back

605
00:32:57,920 --> 00:32:59,960
Speaker 3: at as examples of what could play out in the

606
00:33:00,080 --> 00:33:01,240
Speaker 3: coming months and years.

607
00:33:02,200 --> 00:33:04,520
Speaker 6: Well, the Microsoft case I mentioned, even though it's really

608
00:33:04,520 --> 00:33:06,719
Speaker 6: old at this point, is one of the best examples.

609
00:33:07,640 --> 00:33:11,320
Speaker 6: Up until now, Up until the last two years, the enforcers,

610
00:33:11,360 --> 00:33:13,840
Speaker 6: which includes the Federal Trade Commission too, not just the

611
00:33:13,840 --> 00:33:17,280
Speaker 6: Department of Justice, rarely ever sued a big company for

612
00:33:17,320 --> 00:33:21,320
Speaker 6: a monopolistic conduct. This is really new. So you had Microsoft,

613
00:33:21,560 --> 00:33:24,400
Speaker 6: you had a few other little cases, and then about

614
00:33:24,400 --> 00:33:28,720
Speaker 6: five years ago, the Trade Commission suit Qualcom for monopolization

615
00:33:28,880 --> 00:33:32,000
Speaker 6: in the chip markets. They lost that case. They wanted

616
00:33:32,000 --> 00:33:34,720
Speaker 6: the diss report, they lost on appeal. That case ended

617
00:33:34,720 --> 00:33:38,280
Speaker 6: when the Supreme Court refused to review. So we don't

618
00:33:38,320 --> 00:33:41,120
Speaker 6: have a lot of examples, and what we saw with Microsoft.

619
00:33:41,160 --> 00:33:44,280
Speaker 6: I think that's really important for all these cases is

620
00:33:44,320 --> 00:33:46,960
Speaker 6: that while Microsoft was found guilty, one of the things

621
00:33:46,960 --> 00:33:50,280
Speaker 6: the appellate court said is that a structural remedy in

622
00:33:50,320 --> 00:33:53,600
Speaker 6: these instances is really drastic, and it has to be

623
00:33:53,640 --> 00:33:57,920
Speaker 6: applied only with enormous caution, and the least sort of

624
00:33:57,960 --> 00:34:01,160
Speaker 6: imposing or intrusive remedy that will fix the problem is

625
00:34:01,160 --> 00:34:03,680
Speaker 6: the one that should be used. And so it suggests

626
00:34:03,720 --> 00:34:05,960
Speaker 6: to me that if the courts are following that precedent,

627
00:34:06,520 --> 00:34:09,040
Speaker 6: even if there is liability found here with Google, that

628
00:34:09,120 --> 00:34:11,000
Speaker 6: structural remedies are really unlikely.

629
00:34:11,560 --> 00:34:13,400
Speaker 5: And then when it comes to social media and the

630
00:34:13,400 --> 00:34:18,080
Speaker 5: debate over whether or not it's addictive, particularly for youngsters,

631
00:34:18,719 --> 00:34:21,759
Speaker 5: what's happening on that front, and what are the risks

632
00:34:21,840 --> 00:34:23,759
Speaker 5: to Google alphabet.

633
00:34:25,400 --> 00:34:27,279
Speaker 6: You know, there's a lot of activity on that front.

634
00:34:27,320 --> 00:34:29,040
Speaker 6: But on that one, I'm afraid I'm going to have

635
00:34:29,080 --> 00:34:32,080
Speaker 6: to refer you to my colleague Matt Chattenhelm, who is

636
00:34:32,200 --> 00:34:34,840
Speaker 6: covers more of the consumer protection side of the Federal

637
00:34:34,840 --> 00:34:37,719
Speaker 6: Trade Commissioning. He has been all over what's happening on

638
00:34:37,760 --> 00:34:40,759
Speaker 6: the privacy front, and I think you'll have to speak

639
00:34:40,800 --> 00:34:43,319
Speaker 6: to him. Because on the FTC side, when it comes

640
00:34:43,360 --> 00:34:46,120
Speaker 6: to Facebook Meta, I should say I am much more

641
00:34:46,120 --> 00:34:48,920
Speaker 6: focused on the current lawsuit that the FTC has to

642
00:34:49,000 --> 00:34:52,280
Speaker 6: try to force Meta to sell off Instagram and WhatsApp.

643
00:34:52,719 --> 00:34:55,080
Speaker 6: That's the one that I'm following more so than the

644
00:34:55,120 --> 00:34:58,520
Speaker 6: privacy seats, although the privacy seats have more immediacy right now.

645
00:35:00,000 --> 00:35:02,200
Speaker 3: I guess what other you mentioned it? But what other

646
00:35:03,640 --> 00:35:05,200
Speaker 3: trials are you keeping an eye on or should we

647
00:35:05,239 --> 00:35:07,480
Speaker 3: be keeping an eye on in terms of whether it's

648
00:35:07,600 --> 00:35:11,640
Speaker 3: the anti trust space or kind of other big tech names.

649
00:35:12,480 --> 00:35:14,279
Speaker 6: Well, you know, we have a lot going on, as

650
00:35:14,320 --> 00:35:17,759
Speaker 6: you both mentioned earlier, against big tech, So there's been

651
00:35:17,800 --> 00:35:19,719
Speaker 6: a lot of focus on Google. There are a lot

652
00:35:19,760 --> 00:35:22,399
Speaker 6: of cases against Google. But bear in mind we also

653
00:35:22,480 --> 00:35:25,520
Speaker 6: have a pretty big case against Amazon that's pending by

654
00:35:25,520 --> 00:35:29,120
Speaker 6: the Federal Trade Commission, and that's challenging some of Amazon's

655
00:35:29,160 --> 00:35:34,520
Speaker 6: third party seller practices anti discounting practices they call it.

656
00:35:34,600 --> 00:35:37,840
Speaker 6: That basically force sellers to provide the lowest price that

657
00:35:37,880 --> 00:35:41,960
Speaker 6: they provide anywhere on Amazon. So that's pending. The lawsuit

658
00:35:42,040 --> 00:35:44,359
Speaker 6: I've just mentioned is also pending and could even get

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00:35:44,360 --> 00:35:47,279
Speaker 6: to trial next year, where the Federal Trade Commission has

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00:35:47,400 --> 00:35:50,400
Speaker 6: challenged Meta, saying, hey, you just run around and you

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00:35:50,480 --> 00:35:53,160
Speaker 6: have for years buying up your competitors so that you

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00:35:53,200 --> 00:35:56,000
Speaker 6: don't have viable competitors down the road. You look at

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00:35:56,000 --> 00:35:58,520
Speaker 6: these nascent up and coming startups and if you think

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00:35:58,520 --> 00:36:00,920
Speaker 6: they could threaten you down the road, buying them so

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00:36:01,040 --> 00:36:02,920
Speaker 6: as not to compete with them. And that's what the

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00:36:03,000 --> 00:36:06,239
Speaker 6: FTC allege has happened with WhatsApp and with Instagram, and

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00:36:06,280 --> 00:36:09,040
Speaker 6: so we have that pending too. So among kind of

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00:36:09,080 --> 00:36:12,080
Speaker 6: the big four big tech platforms that we all understood

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00:36:12,080 --> 00:36:15,120
Speaker 6: were under scrutiny, the only ones, if are that isn't

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00:36:15,160 --> 00:36:18,160
Speaker 6: facing a Department of Justice or Federal Trade Comission law

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00:36:18,160 --> 00:36:20,840
Speaker 6: Foo is Apple, and that could still happen. I understand

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00:36:20,840 --> 00:36:22,320
Speaker 6: that investigation is still.

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00:36:22,160 --> 00:36:26,120
Speaker 5: Ongoing, and we haven't brought up Europe and the regulators there,

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Speaker 5: but that's a discussion for another day. Jen. Thanks. It

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Speaker 5: always a pleasure to see Jen Reed, the senior litigation

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Speaker 5: analyst Anti Truns with the Bloomberg Intelligence.

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Speaker 1: Thanks for listening to the Bloomberg Markets podcasts. You can

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00:36:40,040 --> 00:36:43,840
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00:36:43,920 --> 00:36:47,640
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Speaker 1: at Matt Miller nineteen seventy three, and I'm fall Sweeney.

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