WEBVTT - What Is Jane Street? And Why Are Regulators Watching It?

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<v Speaker 1>Bloomberg, Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news. Jane Street is one

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<v Speaker 1>of Wall Street's most profitable trading firms. You've maybe heard

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<v Speaker 1>the name, but unless you're a Wall Street insider, you

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<v Speaker 1>might not know who they are or what exactly they do.

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<v Speaker 2>They are the middleman in many ways.

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<v Speaker 1>Catherine Doherty is a finance reporter for Bloomberg.

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<v Speaker 3>Even though they are such a powerful player in finance,

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<v Speaker 3>you wouldn't really know that you are interacting with them

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<v Speaker 3>in the market.

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<v Speaker 1>If you've ever bought stock on robin Hood or made

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<v Speaker 1>an investment with your retirement fund, chances are Jane Street

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<v Speaker 1>or a firm like it helped process that trade behind

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<v Speaker 1>the scenes. Every day, they facilitate billions of transactions between

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<v Speaker 1>buyers and sellers across markets.

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<v Speaker 3>Jane Street is connected to all of the pipes, all

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<v Speaker 3>of the plumbing of the market.

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<v Speaker 1>And that means Jane Street makes a lot of money

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<v Speaker 1>from trades. In twenty twenty four, its revenue was twenty

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<v Speaker 1>point five billion dollars, almost double what it brought in

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<v Speaker 1>in twenty twenty three. But that growth has also come

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<v Speaker 1>with new scrutiny. Earlier this month, India's main financial regulator

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<v Speaker 1>accused the firm of market manipulation. India's market regulator is

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<v Speaker 1>barring Jane Street from access to its local securities market.

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<v Speaker 1>It may actually be the biggest fine if it matializes ever,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, for such kind of market manipulation.

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<v Speaker 2>Alleged market manipulation.

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<v Speaker 1>Jane Street is called the regulator's conclusions fundamentally mistaken and

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<v Speaker 1>has said it will assess its legal options. But Catherine

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<v Speaker 1>says the rest of the industry is watching to see

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<v Speaker 1>whether this investigation sets off a reckoning that could change

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<v Speaker 1>the way firms like Jane Street operate around the world

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<v Speaker 1>and just how fast they might grow. I'm Sarah Holder,

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<v Speaker 1>and this is the big take from Bloomberg News Today.

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<v Speaker 1>On the show, we take a look at one of

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<v Speaker 1>Wall Street's most secretive firms, how Jane Street's trading got

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<v Speaker 1>it in hot water, and what that could mean for

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<v Speaker 1>regulation in a corner of the industry that not many

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<v Speaker 1>people pay attention to. Jane Street has a reputation as

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<v Speaker 1>a firm with highly compensated, high performing talent.

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<v Speaker 2>The people at Jane.

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<v Speaker 3>Street are often described as mathematical.

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<v Speaker 2>A lot of them play.

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<v Speaker 3>Poker, They have puzzles in their offices. They're problem solvers

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<v Speaker 3>in the most advanced way.

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<v Speaker 1>And those puzzle playing problem solvers spend their days helping

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<v Speaker 1>institutions and other investors make trades.

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<v Speaker 2>Essentially their matching a buyer and a seller. You think

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<v Speaker 2>that when you place an.

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<v Speaker 1>Order, it's as if you go to the grocery store.

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<v Speaker 2>And you're buying something.

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<v Speaker 3>Well, in the markets, there needs to be someone that

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<v Speaker 3>actually helps make that match happen.

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<v Speaker 2>Bayne Street is that firm.

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<v Speaker 1>They're the middleman for all sorts of transactions. If you

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<v Speaker 1>buy stock in a company through a trading app, or

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<v Speaker 1>if you ask a broker to invest your money, Jane

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<v Speaker 1>Street might be the firm behind the curtain helping move

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<v Speaker 1>that money around. Or you might be interacting with one

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<v Speaker 1>of its competitors.

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<v Speaker 3>And you don't know if it was Jane Street or

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<v Speaker 3>if it was Citadel Securities or Susquehanna. There's so many

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<v Speaker 3>of these market making firms, and frankly, until the Meme

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<v Speaker 3>stock craze, retail traders didn't seem to care, or at

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<v Speaker 3>least there wasn't as much discussion.

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<v Speaker 1>Jane Street is a private company and not a bank.

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<v Speaker 1>While it has to abide by market rules, it isn't

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<v Speaker 1>subject to the same degree of regulation that big banks

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<v Speaker 1>such as JP Morgan and Goldman Sachs have faced since

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<v Speaker 1>the two thousand and eight financial crisis. Those other financial

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<v Speaker 1>institutions are under pressure to avoid risk taking, and that

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<v Speaker 1>gives Jane Street an edge.

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<v Speaker 3>They can invest in their technology in the way that

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<v Speaker 3>banks can't because banks have to.

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<v Speaker 2>Be a little bit more conservative with their own money.

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<v Speaker 3>And the secret sauce is that they're able to code

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<v Speaker 3>in the special language as well.

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<v Speaker 2>And what that means is it.

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<v Speaker 3>Is hard for other firms to copy exactly what Jane

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<v Speaker 3>Street is doing, and they're able to take really big

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<v Speaker 3>bets in the market. They're not in the game to

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<v Speaker 3>necessarily invest in a company because they think that the

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<v Speaker 3>company's earnings are going to increase over time, or they're

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<v Speaker 3>not looking to invest in even a sector because they

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<v Speaker 3>believe in that sector. Their primary goal is to just

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<v Speaker 3>be greasing the pipes of the market.

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<v Speaker 1>They're not just using elbow grease. They're using powerful technology

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<v Speaker 1>to guide their traits. If they can anticipate how markets

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<v Speaker 1>are moving from one second to the next, they can

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<v Speaker 1>offer the right prices and profit.

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<v Speaker 3>So they've developed algorithms. They're using data and they're digesting

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<v Speaker 3>that data to make inferences. They're guessing where the market's.

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<v Speaker 2>Going to be moving.

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<v Speaker 3>So if they, for example, see a share, maybe.

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<v Speaker 2>It's a share of Apple, and there's a buyer.

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<v Speaker 3>In the market that is looking to buy at a

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<v Speaker 3>certain price, and there's a seller in the market, their

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<v Speaker 3>algorithm is telling them to match at a certain time

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<v Speaker 3>at a certain price, and it is in milliseconds, So

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<v Speaker 3>this is very very fast. And they're doing this with

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<v Speaker 3>so many shares that the way that they make money

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<v Speaker 3>is they're taking a tiny profit the difference between where

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<v Speaker 3>the share is sold and where the share is bought,

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<v Speaker 3>and they're pocketing that. And it might be pennies. You

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<v Speaker 3>might think, oh, this company that makes twenty billion dollars

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<v Speaker 3>in a year, how did they do that? It adds

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<v Speaker 3>up over time, and because they're using their algorithms, their technology,

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<v Speaker 3>their people, over time, they make billions of dollars.

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<v Speaker 1>So it's a volume game and it's a speed game. Yes,

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<v Speaker 1>a volume and speed game known as high frequency trading. Still,

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<v Speaker 1>there's a lot about the firm we don't know, and

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<v Speaker 1>that sense of secrecy is deeply embedded in the company's culture,

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<v Speaker 1>its offices, even hung a poster, but the famous World

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<v Speaker 1>War Two slogan loose lips sink ships.

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<v Speaker 3>You don't see a lot of Jane Street executives in

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<v Speaker 3>the public eye. They're not ever really on TV or

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<v Speaker 3>even in really niche financial conferences if you go on LinkedIn.

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<v Speaker 2>At one time.

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<v Speaker 3>Profiles were discouraged, and now if you do see a profile,

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<v Speaker 3>there's often not a title attached to a person's name,

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<v Speaker 3>and that is reflective of how this firm operates in

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<v Speaker 3>terms of its culture and the times that it has

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<v Speaker 3>been brought into the public eye.

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<v Speaker 2>It's probably something they would not want.

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<v Speaker 1>One of those moments came with the collapse of FTX,

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<v Speaker 1>the multi billion dollar crypto company that had been founded

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<v Speaker 1>by a former Jane Street employee, Sam Bankman freed.

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<v Speaker 3>When FTX collapsed, there was a lot of discussion about

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<v Speaker 3>the risk taking that Sam's firm took and some comparisons

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<v Speaker 3>to Jane Street.

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<v Speaker 1>But Jane Street hasn't been the target of any major

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<v Speaker 1>regulatory investigations itself until now. Earlier this month, India's regulator,

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<v Speaker 1>the Securities in Exchange Board or SEBI, started investigating the

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<v Speaker 1>firm for market manipulation. Why did regulators start circling. Do

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<v Speaker 1>we know what made them want to investigate Jane Street

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<v Speaker 1>in India.

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<v Speaker 3>So it all stems back to a lawsuit the firm

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<v Speaker 3>had with former employees that went to the hedge fund

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<v Speaker 3>Millennium and they were suing these former employees for We

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<v Speaker 3>didn't know it at the time, but it ended up

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<v Speaker 3>being identified as an options trading strategy. They identified what

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<v Speaker 3>they didn't want to lose as proprietary information. Through this case,

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<v Speaker 3>the number the profit that they were making in options

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<v Speaker 3>specifically and in India came out. It was such a

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<v Speaker 3>large number that the regulators in India said, hold on

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<v Speaker 3>a second.

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<v Speaker 2>We have to look into this.

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<v Speaker 1>We get into what those regulators found and what it

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<v Speaker 1>could mean for the way firms like Jane Street operate

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<v Speaker 1>around the world. After the break in the past few years,

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<v Speaker 1>Street and other market making firms saw an opportunity to

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<v Speaker 1>expand their presence in Indian markets. Over the past five years,

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<v Speaker 1>India's options market has boomed along with the number of

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<v Speaker 1>retail traders. That growth has also led to more volatility

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<v Speaker 1>and a higher potential for profit, and for Jane Street,

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<v Speaker 1>that paid off. The firm made more than four billion

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<v Speaker 1>dollars in India in just over two years. Meanwhile, regulators

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<v Speaker 1>in India said nine out of ten individual traders who

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<v Speaker 1>bet on futures and options lost a significant amount of

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<v Speaker 1>money doing so, and that's part of what got regulators

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<v Speaker 1>looking at how these firms were operating. Bloomberg's Catherine Doherty

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<v Speaker 1>walked me through what happened.

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<v Speaker 3>You have the options market and you have the equity market.

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<v Speaker 3>They're directly correlated.

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<v Speaker 1>The equities market is where you buy or sell stocks.

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<v Speaker 1>The options market is where you buy the option to

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<v Speaker 1>buy or sell stocks at a certain price at a

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<v Speaker 1>future date. The key is betting on which direction the

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<v Speaker 1>stock price might go, something that's influenced by activity in

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<v Speaker 1>the equities market.

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<v Speaker 3>The regulator in India, the Security Is and Exchange Board,

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<v Speaker 3>is accusing the firm of manipulating the market, using its

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<v Speaker 3>money to place such large bets on one market that

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<v Speaker 3>it moves the other market in a way that the

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<v Speaker 3>firm knows they're going to profit from it. The firm

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<v Speaker 3>has said that this is the term arbitrage. Arbitrage is

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<v Speaker 3>just when you spot a dislocation or you can see

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<v Speaker 3>that the market is inefficient in a way that you

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<v Speaker 3>can profit from that and you can. Essentially, what the

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<v Speaker 3>firm would argue is we were actually making the marketplace better,

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<v Speaker 3>we were making it more efficient. So yes, it might

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<v Speaker 3>have moved, but it was moving in some ways closer

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<v Speaker 3>to where it should.

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<v Speaker 1>Basically, the regulator is accusing Jane Street of playing both

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<v Speaker 1>sides of these markets and alleging that the firm was

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<v Speaker 1>putting so much much money on one market that i

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<v Speaker 1>was impacting the other. The regulator ordered the seizure of

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<v Speaker 1>about five hundred and seventy million dollars in profits from

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<v Speaker 1>the firm, which it claims were unlawful gains. It also

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<v Speaker 1>temporarily banmed Jane Street from trading in the Indian securities

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<v Speaker 1>market while it conducts its investigation. I mean, the Indian

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<v Speaker 1>options market is pretty unique. What could this order mean

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<v Speaker 1>for Jane Streets or other similar market making firms operations

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<v Speaker 1>elsewhere around the world.

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<v Speaker 3>First and foremost, there's nothing stopping a regulator from looking

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<v Speaker 3>into a firm that they regulate.

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<v Speaker 2>That's their job. So anytime a firm.

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<v Speaker 3>Is in the news like Jane Street, there's increased scrutiny.

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<v Speaker 1>Doesn't mean that other regulators from other countries where Jane

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<v Speaker 1>Street operates might be wanting to turn over more stones.

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<v Speaker 2>Yes.

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<v Speaker 3>I talked to someone that said, regulators don't want to

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<v Speaker 3>be asleep at the wheel. So even if it's just precautionary,

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<v Speaker 3>it's very likely that a regulator might take a second

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<v Speaker 3>look at what they have access to, and if they

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<v Speaker 3>don't have access or they have more questions, they might

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<v Speaker 3>ask Jane Street to answer those questions just so they

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<v Speaker 3>have some reassurance that there's nothing that they see as

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<v Speaker 3>potentially nefarious or manipulative. And it goes the same for

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<v Speaker 3>a peer of James. I've talked to other market participants

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<v Speaker 3>that would be competitors to Jane, other market makers, and

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<v Speaker 3>one firm said that right after this order came out,

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<v Speaker 3>they were digging through the order and they also had

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<v Speaker 3>an internal meeting amongst themselves to say, hey, are we

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<v Speaker 3>doing anything that might not be exactly the same as

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<v Speaker 3>what Jane Street was doing, but let's look through our

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<v Speaker 3>trading strategies to make sure there's nothing that comes across

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<v Speaker 3>as questionable or that could be brought up by regulators

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<v Speaker 3>as nefarious. And this person was quick to say, like,

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<v Speaker 3>we didn't come to that conclusion, but you have to

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<v Speaker 3>be proactive.

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<v Speaker 1>Jane Street has set aside nearly five hundred and seventy

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<v Speaker 1>million dollars in an escrow account to comply with SEBI's

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<v Speaker 1>order while it investigates. A person familiar with the matter

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<v Speaker 1>told Bloomberg that the firm doesn't plan to immediately return

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<v Speaker 1>to India's options market for now. Market watchers will wait

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<v Speaker 1>to see what the regulator's investigation turns up and whether

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<v Speaker 1>Jane Street decides to file an appeal. What could this

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<v Speaker 1>scrutiny of Jane Street mean for the entire high frequency

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<v Speaker 1>trading market making industry.

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<v Speaker 3>It's a really important question, and it depends who you

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<v Speaker 3>ask people in the industry. Even when I asked that

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<v Speaker 3>question just about Jane Street's future, I had a quick

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<v Speaker 3>answer from someone that said, they're so.

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<v Speaker 2>Large and they're so.

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<v Speaker 3>Good at what they do that this won't impact the

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<v Speaker 3>amount of trading that they're still able to facilitate, and

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<v Speaker 3>that they're just going to keep doing what they do

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<v Speaker 3>because they have such an important role across global markets.

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<v Speaker 1>This is the Big Take from Bloomberg News. I'm Sarah Holder.

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<v Speaker 1>Thanks for listening. We'll be back tomorrow