1 00:00:00,120 --> 00:00:03,680 Speaker 1: You are listening to Ruthie's Table four in partnership with Montclair. 2 00:00:04,400 --> 00:00:07,720 Speaker 2: People always ask me who my dream guest would be 3 00:00:07,800 --> 00:00:12,080 Speaker 2: on Ruthie's Table four. Kate Blanchett has always been top 4 00:00:12,200 --> 00:00:16,600 Speaker 2: of that list, an actor, director, and a vocal activist 5 00:00:16,640 --> 00:00:20,320 Speaker 2: for values and ideas close to my heart. A few 6 00:00:20,360 --> 00:00:23,159 Speaker 2: weeks ago, Greta Gerwig and Noah Baumbach took me to 7 00:00:23,200 --> 00:00:27,040 Speaker 2: see Kate and Thomas Ostermeier's radical new version of The 8 00:00:27,080 --> 00:00:32,199 Speaker 2: Seagull at the Barbican Theater. After a stunning performance, we 9 00:00:32,280 --> 00:00:36,080 Speaker 2: all went for small supper next door, talking about check 10 00:00:36,200 --> 00:00:39,680 Speaker 2: off her rollin Tar and the Serpentine Party that she's 11 00:00:39,760 --> 00:00:44,640 Speaker 2: co hosting this summer and is always family. Kate lives 12 00:00:44,760 --> 00:00:48,600 Speaker 2: with purpose in the countryside in East Sussex, keeping bees, 13 00:00:48,680 --> 00:00:52,960 Speaker 2: growing vegetables in her garden, cooking and eating seasonally. Here 14 00:00:52,960 --> 00:00:55,400 Speaker 2: we are at the River Cafe on the beautiful first 15 00:00:55,480 --> 00:00:58,800 Speaker 2: day of summer. The sun is shining, the chefs are cooking, 16 00:00:59,160 --> 00:01:02,040 Speaker 2: and the garden flowering. Kate and I are going to 17 00:01:02,080 --> 00:01:05,959 Speaker 2: talk about our shared love of food, artists, children, and 18 00:01:06,080 --> 00:01:08,480 Speaker 2: a lot more. A dream come true. 19 00:01:08,720 --> 00:01:12,440 Speaker 3: Indeed, Ah, I'm glad I got out of bed this morning, 20 00:01:12,480 --> 00:01:15,920 Speaker 3: I'm glad to do looking at it right, a little 21 00:01:15,920 --> 00:01:17,400 Speaker 3: piece of sunshine? 22 00:01:17,400 --> 00:01:19,840 Speaker 2: Has this come on to the thro that was such 23 00:01:19,840 --> 00:01:22,920 Speaker 2: an incredible like how do you feel postsecuel? Are you? 24 00:01:23,400 --> 00:01:24,880 Speaker 2: What does it feel like? What you did it for? 25 00:01:24,920 --> 00:01:25,759 Speaker 2: How many weeks? 26 00:01:25,959 --> 00:01:28,399 Speaker 3: It was so short? We were at the Barbecane, so 27 00:01:28,480 --> 00:01:31,560 Speaker 3: it was six weeks. And I must I mean, I've 28 00:01:31,600 --> 00:01:34,360 Speaker 3: known Thomas Ostermaier for years and years and years. You know, 29 00:01:34,400 --> 00:01:36,160 Speaker 3: he's running the Shower Booner and my husband and I 30 00:01:36,240 --> 00:01:39,919 Speaker 3: were running the Sydney Theater Company, so our paths continually crisscrossed, 31 00:01:40,240 --> 00:01:42,480 Speaker 3: but we never actually worked together. And I think the 32 00:01:42,520 --> 00:01:44,759 Speaker 3: thing maybe it's a little bit like a dinner party 33 00:01:44,840 --> 00:01:47,480 Speaker 3: when you do check off. It's all about the ensemble 34 00:01:47,600 --> 00:01:51,960 Speaker 3: and the alchemy that happens or doesn't between the actors. 35 00:01:52,520 --> 00:01:55,360 Speaker 3: And I've always done check off with a loose ensemble 36 00:01:55,440 --> 00:01:58,280 Speaker 3: of actors, whereas Thomas was assembling all of us. Some 37 00:01:58,440 --> 00:02:00,920 Speaker 3: a few people had worked together before, or I'd work 38 00:02:00,960 --> 00:02:06,400 Speaker 3: with Tom Burke on Soderberg's Black Bag relatively recently before 39 00:02:06,440 --> 00:02:09,120 Speaker 3: the production started, but a lot of it didn't know 40 00:02:09,200 --> 00:02:11,840 Speaker 3: one another, and he was able to bring us all 41 00:02:11,880 --> 00:02:16,560 Speaker 3: together all from totally wildly different approaches. And the thing 42 00:02:16,639 --> 00:02:20,919 Speaker 3: I miss most is the people. I love them all 43 00:02:20,960 --> 00:02:21,400 Speaker 3: so much. 44 00:02:21,800 --> 00:02:26,000 Speaker 2: People here, yeah, like my family. You know, we work together, 45 00:02:26,240 --> 00:02:30,360 Speaker 2: we go out, or we celebrate or sometimes we just 46 00:02:30,440 --> 00:02:33,720 Speaker 2: also just work. But it is a very strong attachment 47 00:02:33,800 --> 00:02:37,920 Speaker 2: when you're working together and creating something here, it's every day. 48 00:02:38,080 --> 00:02:40,320 Speaker 2: You know, in a way, they're parallels. The curtain goes 49 00:02:40,400 --> 00:02:43,680 Speaker 2: up at twelve thirty, and the curtain goes up with 50 00:02:43,720 --> 00:02:47,000 Speaker 2: you at seven thirty. Don't you think there's an anticipation. 51 00:02:47,360 --> 00:02:49,320 Speaker 2: You're very dependent on each other. 52 00:02:49,760 --> 00:02:53,600 Speaker 3: And also I think you're part of something that And 53 00:02:53,639 --> 00:02:56,280 Speaker 3: this is what maybe the patrons don't realize, what an 54 00:02:56,320 --> 00:02:59,600 Speaker 3: audience doesn't realize, is that whatever happens in the kitchen 55 00:02:59,680 --> 00:03:02,639 Speaker 3: will be totally influenced by the people who come through that, 56 00:03:03,040 --> 00:03:06,640 Speaker 3: who through your front door. And so the evening is 57 00:03:07,040 --> 00:03:09,000 Speaker 3: I think, you know, you know what's on the menu, 58 00:03:09,320 --> 00:03:10,960 Speaker 3: but you don't know how it's going to unfold. You 59 00:03:10,960 --> 00:03:13,240 Speaker 3: don't know what people are going to order, and so 60 00:03:13,320 --> 00:03:16,359 Speaker 3: it's it's fresh every time. And I you know, being 61 00:03:16,440 --> 00:03:18,240 Speaker 3: quite shy, I mean I don't know if you are, 62 00:03:18,400 --> 00:03:22,960 Speaker 3: but yeah, you get to know people by doing something together. 63 00:03:23,200 --> 00:03:28,240 Speaker 2: Collaborating. Yeah, together, but we see actors on stage singing 64 00:03:28,400 --> 00:03:31,840 Speaker 2: or the incredible gift that is given to us as 65 00:03:31,880 --> 00:03:35,400 Speaker 2: an audience to be able to have that, and Britain 66 00:03:35,440 --> 00:03:38,800 Speaker 2: has always been known for that. Exactly do you feel 67 00:03:38,840 --> 00:03:41,240 Speaker 2: that this is something that is threatened now that we 68 00:03:41,520 --> 00:03:46,360 Speaker 2: that the priority of culture in this country is being lessened. 69 00:03:46,760 --> 00:03:49,160 Speaker 2: There was a time when there was money for the arts. 70 00:03:49,320 --> 00:03:52,160 Speaker 2: You know, there was money for building a theater. And 71 00:03:52,200 --> 00:03:54,080 Speaker 2: I know that you are an activist. I know that 72 00:03:54,120 --> 00:03:58,560 Speaker 2: you're engaged in political life. And what are you feeling 73 00:03:58,560 --> 00:04:00,040 Speaker 2: about right now in terms of. 74 00:04:00,280 --> 00:04:01,800 Speaker 4: I mean people talk about activism. 75 00:04:02,360 --> 00:04:04,880 Speaker 3: You know that it's political, but I think it's engaging 76 00:04:04,920 --> 00:04:08,400 Speaker 3: in things that have been politicized. And it always is 77 00:04:08,520 --> 00:04:12,000 Speaker 3: strange to me when we talk about the arts, this 78 00:04:12,120 --> 00:04:16,080 Speaker 3: word elite is used. And if you think about an 79 00:04:16,080 --> 00:04:21,479 Speaker 3: elite sports person, that term means that they are they 80 00:04:21,480 --> 00:04:26,000 Speaker 3: have spent many many years perfecting their ability, that they 81 00:04:26,040 --> 00:04:29,279 Speaker 3: are at the top of their game, and that when 82 00:04:29,279 --> 00:04:32,240 Speaker 3: we talk about the arts, yes, they are elite in 83 00:04:32,279 --> 00:04:34,599 Speaker 3: the sense that those people who put those shows on 84 00:04:34,839 --> 00:04:39,440 Speaker 3: are exceptional at what they do. It's not for an elite. 85 00:04:40,040 --> 00:04:42,040 Speaker 3: I think the elite these days are the people who 86 00:04:42,080 --> 00:04:45,440 Speaker 3: don't pay tax. And if they did pay tax, then 87 00:04:45,600 --> 00:04:49,680 Speaker 3: all of these wonderful offerings cultural offerings. The Churchill said, 88 00:04:49,920 --> 00:04:52,080 Speaker 3: what are we fighting for if we're not fighting for 89 00:04:52,480 --> 00:04:56,040 Speaker 3: culture and the access to it is that then they 90 00:04:56,040 --> 00:04:58,040 Speaker 3: would be more accessible to people. 91 00:04:58,400 --> 00:04:59,240 Speaker 4: And so there's this. 92 00:05:00,200 --> 00:05:03,839 Speaker 3: I think it's a linguistic language division that's often created 93 00:05:03,920 --> 00:05:09,640 Speaker 3: between people and culture. And I think that you I mean, 94 00:05:09,680 --> 00:05:12,080 Speaker 3: that's the joy of touring a play is that you 95 00:05:12,160 --> 00:05:15,719 Speaker 3: will tour to a regional area, you'll do it in 96 00:05:15,720 --> 00:05:17,719 Speaker 3: a major city, you'll do it in one country, in 97 00:05:17,760 --> 00:05:21,200 Speaker 3: another country, And I think that the reaction that people 98 00:05:21,279 --> 00:05:26,279 Speaker 3: have in various different locations will feed the work, and hopefully. 99 00:05:25,839 --> 00:05:27,560 Speaker 4: Those people will be fed by the work. 100 00:05:28,120 --> 00:05:31,400 Speaker 3: The first time I went to a gallery and saw, 101 00:05:32,279 --> 00:05:35,719 Speaker 3: you know, a major work of portraiture, it changed the way, 102 00:05:35,960 --> 00:05:37,920 Speaker 3: you know, at my little state primary school, the way 103 00:05:37,960 --> 00:05:39,200 Speaker 3: I thought about the world. 104 00:05:39,560 --> 00:05:41,279 Speaker 4: And dance does that, music does that. 105 00:05:41,920 --> 00:05:44,799 Speaker 3: But we're told that it's only for a certain set 106 00:05:44,839 --> 00:05:47,960 Speaker 3: of people, and I think that's because access is not 107 00:05:48,000 --> 00:05:48,719 Speaker 3: afforded them. 108 00:05:48,839 --> 00:05:51,120 Speaker 2: Tell me about the early days of being in your family. 109 00:05:51,279 --> 00:05:53,440 Speaker 2: Did you you have sisters and brothers? 110 00:05:53,600 --> 00:05:56,520 Speaker 3: Yes, I have an older brother and a younger sister, 111 00:05:57,120 --> 00:06:01,839 Speaker 3: and my father was from Texas, so I was born 112 00:06:01,839 --> 00:06:05,000 Speaker 3: in Melbourne in Australia. Yeah, we were going to move 113 00:06:05,040 --> 00:06:08,279 Speaker 3: to the States really early on, and they decided, I 114 00:06:08,320 --> 00:06:12,640 Speaker 3: think for our education, that they wanted us to be 115 00:06:13,160 --> 00:06:14,800 Speaker 3: in Australia, so we stayed there. 116 00:06:14,839 --> 00:06:18,960 Speaker 2: But why did he come from Australia, from Texas to Asta. 117 00:06:19,040 --> 00:06:21,320 Speaker 4: Yeah, he was in the He. 118 00:06:21,520 --> 00:06:26,200 Speaker 3: Was the child of two alcoholic parents and so he 119 00:06:26,440 --> 00:06:29,760 Speaker 3: grew up I think, killing birds in a park and 120 00:06:30,120 --> 00:06:34,400 Speaker 3: it would never happen now, but you know, a gentleman 121 00:06:34,600 --> 00:06:38,040 Speaker 3: saw him and took him off the streets and educated 122 00:06:38,120 --> 00:06:40,599 Speaker 3: him and put him through high school. 123 00:06:40,680 --> 00:06:42,640 Speaker 4: And the minute he could, he wanted to. 124 00:06:42,560 --> 00:06:45,839 Speaker 3: Get out, so he lied about his age, joined the Navy, 125 00:06:46,520 --> 00:06:48,520 Speaker 3: and he went to the Antarctic, and I think he 126 00:06:48,600 --> 00:06:52,039 Speaker 3: decided to become a Unitarian minister. And my mother, who 127 00:06:52,120 --> 00:06:57,239 Speaker 3: was at Teachers College in Melbourne, he well, his ship 128 00:06:57,279 --> 00:06:59,760 Speaker 3: broke down leaving the Antarctics, so they had to dock 129 00:07:00,040 --> 00:07:03,040 Speaker 3: in Melbourne and there was a teachers dance and they 130 00:07:03,040 --> 00:07:05,000 Speaker 3: didn't have enough men, so they went down to the 131 00:07:05,040 --> 00:07:09,080 Speaker 3: port and then my father came and my mother and 132 00:07:09,120 --> 00:07:11,680 Speaker 3: he danced all night, and then he left three weeks later, 133 00:07:12,280 --> 00:07:16,400 Speaker 3: and they corresponded for two years, and then he decided 134 00:07:16,400 --> 00:07:18,280 Speaker 3: to come out. It was quite old fashioned. It was 135 00:07:18,280 --> 00:07:21,200 Speaker 3: a little bit like this wonderful Patrick White novel called Voss, 136 00:07:21,800 --> 00:07:25,800 Speaker 3: where there's Uh an explorer and I can't remember what 137 00:07:26,640 --> 00:07:28,520 Speaker 3: she did. I think she might have also been a teacher. 138 00:07:28,920 --> 00:07:34,240 Speaker 3: They fell in love but didn't consummate it or to 139 00:07:34,280 --> 00:07:36,920 Speaker 3: claim it to one another, and then they corresponded to letters, 140 00:07:36,920 --> 00:07:38,560 Speaker 3: and that's sort of what my mother and father did. 141 00:07:38,880 --> 00:07:41,600 Speaker 3: And then they decided he'd come out and get married. 142 00:07:42,480 --> 00:07:48,280 Speaker 2: And that's a story of adventure and chance and yeahs 143 00:07:48,600 --> 00:07:54,280 Speaker 2: pursuing an idea and the idea of the harbor and 144 00:07:54,320 --> 00:07:56,840 Speaker 2: the meeting and the dancing all night. 145 00:07:57,240 --> 00:08:01,440 Speaker 3: We celebrated Halloween and Thanksgiving. So I grew up with 146 00:08:01,560 --> 00:08:03,480 Speaker 3: pumpkin pie and can. 147 00:08:03,320 --> 00:08:05,480 Speaker 4: Park did mom? 148 00:08:05,640 --> 00:08:09,880 Speaker 3: Yeah, make them both and yeah, and so he Yeah, 149 00:08:09,880 --> 00:08:11,880 Speaker 3: we grew up with quite a lot of American black 150 00:08:11,880 --> 00:08:14,080 Speaker 3: eyed peas, all of those things. 151 00:08:14,160 --> 00:08:17,360 Speaker 2: So did you ever go back to Texas? Yes? 152 00:08:17,480 --> 00:08:21,680 Speaker 3: Sadly, he died when he was forty and we had 153 00:08:21,720 --> 00:08:25,240 Speaker 3: planned a trip back to back to Texas and he 154 00:08:25,280 --> 00:08:27,320 Speaker 3: died in the January and we were going in May, 155 00:08:27,760 --> 00:08:31,080 Speaker 3: and so we made the trip anyway and went and 156 00:08:31,120 --> 00:08:34,240 Speaker 3: met his sort of of his family. 157 00:08:34,440 --> 00:08:37,520 Speaker 2: Yeah, so growing up there was a sense of the 158 00:08:37,559 --> 00:08:40,680 Speaker 2: American influence. There was Australian influence as well. Yeah. 159 00:08:40,679 --> 00:08:43,720 Speaker 3: My grandmother was I think a Scottish grandmother. Yeah, I 160 00:08:43,800 --> 00:08:46,920 Speaker 3: lived with you, Yeah she did. She lived, made the sandwiches, 161 00:08:47,160 --> 00:08:49,560 Speaker 3: made the sandwiches. I think she was a Scottish descent. 162 00:08:49,679 --> 00:08:52,200 Speaker 3: So everything was boiled within an inch of its life. 163 00:08:52,720 --> 00:08:57,000 Speaker 3: And at that point in Australia, avocados were, you know, 164 00:08:57,160 --> 00:08:59,080 Speaker 3: incredibly exotic mangoes. 165 00:08:58,760 --> 00:09:01,360 Speaker 4: Because are we talking about We're talking about. 166 00:09:01,120 --> 00:09:05,440 Speaker 3: A long time ago, in the eighties, in the eighties, 167 00:09:06,120 --> 00:09:09,560 Speaker 3: and so because of the fruitfly, there were quite strong 168 00:09:09,600 --> 00:09:12,600 Speaker 3: demarcations between what was grown in Queensland what was grown 169 00:09:12,640 --> 00:09:15,520 Speaker 3: in New South Wales. Nothing ever came over from Western 170 00:09:15,559 --> 00:09:17,679 Speaker 3: Australia to Victoria. 171 00:09:17,840 --> 00:09:19,119 Speaker 4: If you had fruit. 172 00:09:18,920 --> 00:09:22,280 Speaker 3: And you were crossing between Victoria and New South Wales, 173 00:09:22,559 --> 00:09:25,680 Speaker 3: you had to leave the fruit the vegetables at the border. 174 00:09:25,760 --> 00:09:28,679 Speaker 3: So there was no tropical fruit that even came down. 175 00:09:29,200 --> 00:09:33,160 Speaker 3: I mean, I have the utmost respect for farmers, I 176 00:09:33,160 --> 00:09:38,080 Speaker 3: mean in any country, but in Australia it's really, it's 177 00:09:38,360 --> 00:09:41,920 Speaker 3: very hard. It's such an ancient land, and I think 178 00:09:41,960 --> 00:09:46,720 Speaker 3: because for so long we have marginalized indigenous understandings. 179 00:09:46,000 --> 00:09:49,840 Speaker 4: Of the way way to grow and collect food. 180 00:09:49,880 --> 00:09:54,000 Speaker 2: Actually, tell me about the indigenous experience. 181 00:09:53,480 --> 00:09:56,079 Speaker 3: Of well, I mean, there were so many hundreds of 182 00:09:56,160 --> 00:09:59,560 Speaker 3: language groups and cultures that have been wiped out through 183 00:10:00,400 --> 00:10:03,679 Speaker 3: you know, a white invasion. I mean, you can't call 184 00:10:03,720 --> 00:10:06,680 Speaker 3: it any other name in any other way, but I 185 00:10:06,720 --> 00:10:10,360 Speaker 3: think we've not grown as a white culture through that 186 00:10:10,400 --> 00:10:12,959 Speaker 3: wisdom and understanding of the land. And so the food 187 00:10:13,000 --> 00:10:15,280 Speaker 3: ball in so many parts of Australia is actually in 188 00:10:15,320 --> 00:10:18,600 Speaker 3: the wrong place. Water is a scarce commodity. I mean 189 00:10:18,640 --> 00:10:22,040 Speaker 3: brand Australia when I was growing up was multiculturalism. And 190 00:10:22,120 --> 00:10:26,360 Speaker 3: so once we you know, really embraced the wave of 191 00:10:27,360 --> 00:10:32,080 Speaker 3: Vietnamese and Lebanese and Greek and Italian immigrants and refugees, 192 00:10:32,440 --> 00:10:36,280 Speaker 3: our cuisine became extraordinary. And now it's been exported to 193 00:10:36,320 --> 00:10:40,040 Speaker 3: the world as Pan Pacific or Asia Pacific and so 194 00:10:40,080 --> 00:10:42,199 Speaker 3: it's But at the time when I was growing up, 195 00:10:42,280 --> 00:10:43,600 Speaker 3: my mother was an excellent cross. 196 00:10:43,679 --> 00:10:45,719 Speaker 2: So tell me about So your mother was left with 197 00:10:45,800 --> 00:10:47,920 Speaker 2: three children. Ye, well, she was what. 198 00:10:49,000 --> 00:10:52,040 Speaker 3: She was thirty nine and my brother was eleven I 199 00:10:52,080 --> 00:10:56,080 Speaker 3: was ten. Well, she had to go back to work 200 00:10:56,120 --> 00:10:59,480 Speaker 3: as a teacher and so she taught home economics. So 201 00:11:00,160 --> 00:11:05,679 Speaker 3: our kitchen was fantastic. Yeah, a lot of a lot 202 00:11:05,720 --> 00:11:10,720 Speaker 3: of Italian cooking and a lot of fresh seafood and salads. 203 00:11:10,760 --> 00:11:12,920 Speaker 3: And that was not what people were eating at the time. 204 00:11:13,440 --> 00:11:16,040 Speaker 3: But I think the thing when there was a lot 205 00:11:16,080 --> 00:11:20,199 Speaker 3: of grief in my house, So the meals were delicious, 206 00:11:20,240 --> 00:11:24,080 Speaker 3: but they were silent and and and that's been one 207 00:11:24,080 --> 00:11:26,880 Speaker 3: of the great joys I think from my side of 208 00:11:26,920 --> 00:11:30,480 Speaker 3: the family, but also for me is my husband came 209 00:11:30,480 --> 00:11:34,520 Speaker 3: from this enormous Catholic family, so the food may not 210 00:11:34,559 --> 00:11:37,880 Speaker 3: have been Yeah, I know he's Australian, but they had 211 00:11:38,040 --> 00:11:42,360 Speaker 3: massively noisy, loud, raucous meals. 212 00:11:42,640 --> 00:11:44,400 Speaker 4: And my husband's an excellent cook. 213 00:11:44,520 --> 00:11:46,480 Speaker 3: And actually the first time I met my brother in 214 00:11:46,559 --> 00:11:50,760 Speaker 3: law was at Christmas and he there was I came 215 00:11:50,800 --> 00:11:53,760 Speaker 3: towards the house and there was people were screaming with 216 00:11:53,880 --> 00:11:57,000 Speaker 3: laughter and I don't know what the what the meal is, 217 00:11:57,040 --> 00:12:01,120 Speaker 3: but it's a medieval recipe where you stuff a goose. 218 00:12:01,120 --> 00:12:03,280 Speaker 4: With a pigeon. 219 00:12:03,400 --> 00:12:05,840 Speaker 3: I know that quail, that's right, And what had happened 220 00:12:05,920 --> 00:12:10,400 Speaker 3: was he'd open oven and the thing shot out. The 221 00:12:10,520 --> 00:12:12,440 Speaker 3: telescope telescoped out. 222 00:12:12,280 --> 00:12:13,559 Speaker 4: Onto the wall. 223 00:12:13,640 --> 00:12:16,480 Speaker 3: So there goes Christmas lunch. Yeah, so they were madly 224 00:12:16,559 --> 00:12:17,760 Speaker 3: trying to stuff it back in. 225 00:12:18,000 --> 00:12:20,640 Speaker 2: I know that recipe. I mean I've never done it myself, 226 00:12:20,640 --> 00:12:22,960 Speaker 2: but I know that's dangerous. Have you ever done that? 227 00:12:23,000 --> 00:12:23,800 Speaker 2: Do you know that? Yeah? 228 00:12:24,240 --> 00:12:24,680 Speaker 4: Dangerous. 229 00:12:24,720 --> 00:12:29,199 Speaker 2: That's so funny because they probably asked their cooking. They expand, expand, 230 00:12:29,280 --> 00:12:31,280 Speaker 2: and then therefore, yeah, that's hilarious. 231 00:12:31,520 --> 00:12:35,079 Speaker 3: So they're wildly adventurous with the call. When you met him, 232 00:12:35,960 --> 00:12:38,760 Speaker 3: my husband and I got to we've been married. God, 233 00:12:39,480 --> 00:12:42,520 Speaker 3: we got married very quickly actually in ninety seven. It 234 00:12:42,559 --> 00:12:44,760 Speaker 3: wasn't a shotgun wedding. We didn't have children for quite 235 00:12:44,760 --> 00:12:48,200 Speaker 3: some time. But I think we're twenty eight. 236 00:12:48,400 --> 00:12:51,360 Speaker 2: Yeah, so you were embraced by this family. But going 237 00:12:51,480 --> 00:12:54,000 Speaker 2: back to yours, So you grew up with you know, 238 00:12:54,120 --> 00:12:56,599 Speaker 2: your father in the beginning cooking, and I assume that 239 00:12:56,679 --> 00:13:01,880 Speaker 2: your mother cooked, and you meals and keep cues and people, 240 00:13:02,280 --> 00:13:05,360 Speaker 2: and then it became a kind of sadness. 241 00:13:04,880 --> 00:13:08,520 Speaker 4: And then did the silent Yeah. 242 00:13:08,320 --> 00:13:11,600 Speaker 2: And did that change? Did you? Well? 243 00:13:12,080 --> 00:13:13,720 Speaker 3: Yeah, I was thinking about it, maybe because I was 244 00:13:13,760 --> 00:13:17,920 Speaker 3: coming to speak to you. But then I've always loved 245 00:13:17,960 --> 00:13:19,839 Speaker 3: the dinner party. And so what I would do is 246 00:13:19,840 --> 00:13:22,440 Speaker 3: I wouldn't go to a lot of parties as a teenager. 247 00:13:23,040 --> 00:13:26,280 Speaker 3: I would have dinner parties. Yeah, so I would where 248 00:13:26,280 --> 00:13:28,560 Speaker 3: everyone would dress up. My girlfriends would all dress up 249 00:13:28,559 --> 00:13:31,440 Speaker 3: and we'd know it would all cook something and we'd 250 00:13:31,559 --> 00:13:32,520 Speaker 3: you know, I don't know. 251 00:13:32,520 --> 00:13:34,120 Speaker 4: Who we were trying to ape or what we were 252 00:13:34,120 --> 00:13:34,600 Speaker 4: trying to ape. 253 00:13:34,600 --> 00:13:37,439 Speaker 3: There was a lot of sorbet inside orange cups, and 254 00:13:37,600 --> 00:13:39,880 Speaker 3: I don't know. And I grew up with this Salvador 255 00:13:39,960 --> 00:13:42,760 Speaker 3: Daly cookbook, you know, the one that he'd done and 256 00:13:42,800 --> 00:13:46,320 Speaker 3: he'd done the illustrations and yes, yes, and I cooked 257 00:13:47,160 --> 00:13:47,439 Speaker 3: from that. 258 00:13:48,080 --> 00:13:51,760 Speaker 4: It's crazy to admit that I didn't. That was where 259 00:13:51,800 --> 00:13:52,760 Speaker 4: I cooked my first. 260 00:13:52,600 --> 00:13:55,360 Speaker 2: Surrealist cookbook, a surrealist recipe. 261 00:13:55,480 --> 00:13:57,040 Speaker 4: But it was hard in Melbourne at the time to 262 00:13:57,080 --> 00:14:00,960 Speaker 4: find a pheasant. You try, I tried. 263 00:14:01,040 --> 00:14:05,040 Speaker 3: So I cooked and tried to decorate that the dishes 264 00:14:05,800 --> 00:14:07,360 Speaker 3: from the salvad Or Daly cookbook. 265 00:14:07,559 --> 00:14:10,280 Speaker 4: What age was it, This is probably about thirteen. 266 00:14:10,480 --> 00:14:12,840 Speaker 2: So that's yeah. Because I often talked to people who 267 00:14:12,880 --> 00:14:14,520 Speaker 2: when I say, okay, so you grew up in this 268 00:14:15,200 --> 00:14:18,040 Speaker 2: nurturing home with a grandmother and a mother and cooking, 269 00:14:18,440 --> 00:14:20,960 Speaker 2: and then what happened when you left home? And very 270 00:14:21,040 --> 00:14:23,560 Speaker 2: often people say, then when I had my own flat 271 00:14:23,720 --> 00:14:26,640 Speaker 2: and I started buying local ingredients and I started cooking. 272 00:14:26,920 --> 00:14:30,080 Speaker 2: But thirteen is an early age that to do and 273 00:14:30,200 --> 00:14:30,840 Speaker 2: to entertain. 274 00:14:31,040 --> 00:14:33,280 Speaker 4: And I think it's because it was my father's book. 275 00:14:34,120 --> 00:14:36,240 Speaker 3: He worked in advertising, and it was must have been 276 00:14:36,280 --> 00:14:39,760 Speaker 3: a gift that he was given one year and yeah, 277 00:14:39,800 --> 00:14:42,280 Speaker 3: so it was sort of trying the sal Yeah, not 278 00:14:42,400 --> 00:14:44,480 Speaker 3: that I can remember him ever cooking from it, but 279 00:14:44,600 --> 00:14:47,440 Speaker 3: it was just it was something of his that maybe 280 00:14:47,480 --> 00:14:49,320 Speaker 3: I gravitated towards that. 281 00:14:49,840 --> 00:14:50,440 Speaker 4: And also. 282 00:14:52,120 --> 00:14:54,480 Speaker 3: The Surrealism seemed to make sense to me. I had 283 00:14:54,600 --> 00:14:58,120 Speaker 3: very vivid nightmares and dreams as a child, and so 284 00:14:58,280 --> 00:15:02,480 Speaker 3: his work and the surrealism movements as a whole kind 285 00:15:02,480 --> 00:15:04,800 Speaker 3: of really unlocked something for me. 286 00:15:08,160 --> 00:15:10,680 Speaker 2: An open kitchen in the River Cafe means we as 287 00:15:10,760 --> 00:15:13,320 Speaker 2: chefs are able to talk to our guests dining in 288 00:15:13,400 --> 00:15:16,560 Speaker 2: the restaurant. And now we're bringing that same ethos to 289 00:15:16,680 --> 00:15:20,120 Speaker 2: our podcast, a question and answer episode with me and 290 00:15:20,200 --> 00:15:23,360 Speaker 2: our two executive chefs. Send a voice note with your 291 00:15:23,440 --> 00:15:28,160 Speaker 2: question to questions at Rivercafe dot co dot uk, and 292 00:15:28,360 --> 00:15:31,640 Speaker 2: you might just be our next great guest on Ruthie's 293 00:15:31,720 --> 00:15:43,000 Speaker 2: Table four. Tell me about cooking the dover soul. What 294 00:15:43,200 --> 00:15:43,320 Speaker 2: was that? 295 00:15:43,760 --> 00:15:49,280 Speaker 3: Well, I'd actually deboned a soul in Alfonso Quaran's disclaimer, 296 00:15:49,400 --> 00:15:51,680 Speaker 3: and I don't know whether he thought my deboning was 297 00:15:51,760 --> 00:15:55,760 Speaker 3: too good or that the scene was too static or whatever, 298 00:15:55,840 --> 00:15:59,480 Speaker 3: but he then threw a cat onto the bench. So 299 00:15:59,600 --> 00:16:03,720 Speaker 3: I was trying to debone and cook the soul with 300 00:16:03,840 --> 00:16:05,640 Speaker 3: a cat on the bench, which was what did the 301 00:16:05,720 --> 00:16:06,080 Speaker 3: cat do? 302 00:16:06,640 --> 00:16:07,120 Speaker 4: Tried to read? 303 00:16:08,400 --> 00:16:13,120 Speaker 2: So, having having cooked the billeted the dover soul, would 304 00:16:13,160 --> 00:16:18,000 Speaker 2: you like to tell everyone listening how to make come 305 00:16:18,080 --> 00:16:25,120 Speaker 2: to the river. And also, you know, you can change 306 00:16:25,160 --> 00:16:27,000 Speaker 2: it in any way you want. People read it and 307 00:16:27,040 --> 00:16:30,040 Speaker 2: add their own advice or okay, let's just or you 308 00:16:30,120 --> 00:16:31,400 Speaker 2: can just read it whatever you write. 309 00:16:31,400 --> 00:16:34,640 Speaker 3: You know, there's something I was thinking too about the 310 00:16:34,720 --> 00:16:37,440 Speaker 3: way you cook. Someone said this, and I'm going to 311 00:16:37,840 --> 00:16:41,720 Speaker 3: phrase it so badly that Chopin apparently said that the 312 00:16:41,960 --> 00:16:46,800 Speaker 3: great reward of have been played many many notes over 313 00:16:46,920 --> 00:16:50,040 Speaker 3: many many years is simplicity. And I think that is 314 00:16:50,120 --> 00:16:52,920 Speaker 3: something extraordinary about the way you cook. And maybe it's 315 00:16:53,000 --> 00:16:55,600 Speaker 3: with this recipe. So the more dover souls you cook, 316 00:16:55,680 --> 00:16:59,200 Speaker 3: the better you'll cook them. Dover soul with capers and 317 00:16:59,320 --> 00:17:05,840 Speaker 3: marjarine two tablespoons salted capers, extra virgin olive oil. But 318 00:17:05,960 --> 00:17:07,879 Speaker 3: put that on the fish before you put it in 319 00:17:07,960 --> 00:17:10,359 Speaker 3: the pan. That's what I learned today. A bunch of 320 00:17:10,480 --> 00:17:15,160 Speaker 3: fresh marjoram leaves, four whole dover sole weighing three hundred 321 00:17:15,200 --> 00:17:18,760 Speaker 3: and fifty to four hundred grams each, scaled and cleaned 322 00:17:18,920 --> 00:17:23,440 Speaker 3: by someone at the riff of cafe. One lemon, cut 323 00:17:23,520 --> 00:17:26,879 Speaker 3: in half and put in the pan. Eventually put the 324 00:17:26,960 --> 00:17:27,480 Speaker 3: capers on. 325 00:17:27,840 --> 00:17:28,560 Speaker 4: This is the method. 326 00:17:29,000 --> 00:17:31,879 Speaker 3: Put the capers in a sieve and rinse under cold 327 00:17:32,040 --> 00:17:35,639 Speaker 3: running water. Leave to soak in cold water for forty minutes, 328 00:17:35,800 --> 00:17:39,400 Speaker 3: then rinse again. Preheat the oven two hundred and thirty 329 00:17:39,440 --> 00:17:45,320 Speaker 3: degrees celsius. Brush a large flat oven tray with extra 330 00:17:45,400 --> 00:17:48,640 Speaker 3: virgin olive oil. Scatter half of the marjoram leaves over 331 00:17:48,720 --> 00:17:52,760 Speaker 3: the tray. Season, place the fish on top, side by 332 00:17:52,920 --> 00:17:56,360 Speaker 3: side little buddies who are about to be eaten. Season 333 00:17:56,640 --> 00:18:00,359 Speaker 3: Then scatter the remaining mardrum and the capers over with 334 00:18:00,440 --> 00:18:04,240 Speaker 3: olive oil. Bake for fifteen to twenty minutes. Test with 335 00:18:04,400 --> 00:18:07,200 Speaker 3: the point of a sharp knife or a fork inserted 336 00:18:07,240 --> 00:18:10,000 Speaker 3: in the thickest part of the sole. If cooked, the 337 00:18:10,119 --> 00:18:13,520 Speaker 3: flesh should come away from the bone. Don't eat it yet, 338 00:18:14,119 --> 00:18:17,040 Speaker 3: Squeeze the lemon over the fish, and serve with any 339 00:18:17,160 --> 00:18:18,240 Speaker 3: juices from the pan. 340 00:18:20,040 --> 00:18:21,680 Speaker 2: Delicious So simple, isn't it? 341 00:18:21,840 --> 00:18:23,760 Speaker 3: I know, but I didn't realize if you oil the 342 00:18:23,840 --> 00:18:27,280 Speaker 3: fish first, of course, it doesn't stick to the pan. 343 00:18:28,280 --> 00:18:31,280 Speaker 3: I know, and marjoramn't. I would have put parsley, which 344 00:18:31,320 --> 00:18:34,639 Speaker 3: is a bit more the Margroom's just so flavor something. 345 00:18:34,560 --> 00:18:38,040 Speaker 2: Now it's very perfume. But then again, we do it 346 00:18:38,160 --> 00:18:40,960 Speaker 2: with rosemary. Sometimes you put a whole branch of rosemary 347 00:18:41,160 --> 00:18:43,560 Speaker 2: under the sole when we cook it. We do it, 348 00:18:43,720 --> 00:18:47,280 Speaker 2: but we do parsley and then the caper. Is the 349 00:18:47,359 --> 00:18:50,400 Speaker 2: saltiness of the caper that was delicious. Or maybe I'll 350 00:18:50,480 --> 00:18:52,359 Speaker 2: just do an anchovy, one anchovy over it. 351 00:18:52,440 --> 00:18:56,919 Speaker 3: I love anchovy much maligned. I think it's probably one 352 00:18:56,920 --> 00:18:57,920 Speaker 3: of my favorite fish. 353 00:18:58,440 --> 00:19:03,000 Speaker 2: Yeah, we an Italian cookie. It's they are like a herb. 354 00:19:03,480 --> 00:19:06,120 Speaker 2: They're like this seasoning. So we make right now we're 355 00:19:06,160 --> 00:19:10,520 Speaker 2: doing white asparagus and or green and we make an 356 00:19:10,600 --> 00:19:12,760 Speaker 2: anchovy butter and it kind of melts. 357 00:19:16,080 --> 00:19:18,840 Speaker 4: I love asparagus. Yes, I haven't been. 358 00:19:19,160 --> 00:19:20,000 Speaker 2: Are you getting it now? 359 00:19:20,280 --> 00:19:23,399 Speaker 4: Yeah? They started, we're changing. We had a really tiny 360 00:19:23,520 --> 00:19:24,159 Speaker 4: little garden. 361 00:19:24,359 --> 00:19:26,600 Speaker 3: We used to have pigs, and then the pigs went 362 00:19:26,640 --> 00:19:29,560 Speaker 3: because we weren't realized we weren't pig farmers and they're 363 00:19:29,600 --> 00:19:32,440 Speaker 3: too intelligent. And there was something just I thought that, 364 00:19:33,080 --> 00:19:37,879 Speaker 3: and yeah, and actually it was my machiavellian plan to 365 00:19:38,000 --> 00:19:41,240 Speaker 3: turn my family vegetarian. I thought, if we get pigs, 366 00:19:41,640 --> 00:19:44,440 Speaker 3: then the children will realize that the sausages they eat, 367 00:19:44,560 --> 00:19:47,159 Speaker 3: the ham they eat, the bacon, it all comes from 368 00:19:47,200 --> 00:19:50,320 Speaker 3: these pigs. And my now seventeen year old called himself 369 00:19:50,359 --> 00:19:51,800 Speaker 3: the pig whisper, and he used to go up and 370 00:19:51,800 --> 00:19:52,840 Speaker 3: he used to hug the pigs and. 371 00:19:52,920 --> 00:19:53,679 Speaker 4: Stroke the pigs. 372 00:19:54,160 --> 00:19:56,840 Speaker 3: And of course then when they got turned into sausages 373 00:19:57,040 --> 00:19:59,840 Speaker 3: and you know, ethically and as humanly as. 374 00:19:59,760 --> 00:20:02,400 Speaker 4: You can, I was sitting there. It was a little 375 00:20:02,440 --> 00:20:02,840 Speaker 4: bit cruel. 376 00:20:02,880 --> 00:20:05,320 Speaker 3: They were sitting down putting the ketchup on their sausages, 377 00:20:05,640 --> 00:20:07,479 Speaker 3: and I said, you know, this used to be Benson 378 00:20:07,560 --> 00:20:10,240 Speaker 3: and hedges. My husband called them Benson and Hedges because 379 00:20:10,240 --> 00:20:11,280 Speaker 3: he said they're going to be smoked. 380 00:20:11,480 --> 00:20:13,520 Speaker 4: It was a little bit a bit off, but. 381 00:20:13,560 --> 00:20:16,960 Speaker 3: Anyway, and they said this is Benton and hedges and 382 00:20:17,160 --> 00:20:20,359 Speaker 3: my my now seventeen year old, said delicious. 383 00:20:20,920 --> 00:20:23,960 Speaker 4: So it didn't work. So then the pigs went and 384 00:20:24,040 --> 00:20:24,960 Speaker 4: so then we think, I. 385 00:20:25,040 --> 00:20:26,640 Speaker 2: Want to be on a lifeboat with that boy. 386 00:20:26,960 --> 00:20:31,280 Speaker 3: No, he's actually incredibly kind and sweet, but he's a sensualist, 387 00:20:31,400 --> 00:20:33,359 Speaker 3: so he's very in the moment. And so then that 388 00:20:33,560 --> 00:20:38,760 Speaker 3: little vegetable garden where we're growing asparagus and we had raspberries, 389 00:20:38,760 --> 00:20:41,479 Speaker 3: we had a whole host hotch potch. We then decided 390 00:20:41,480 --> 00:20:44,119 Speaker 3: to build a walled garden, so that has gone to fallow. 391 00:20:44,160 --> 00:20:47,360 Speaker 3: So the asparagus has kind of now gone. 392 00:20:47,160 --> 00:20:50,040 Speaker 4: To see so you get grape fish from the car. 393 00:20:50,280 --> 00:20:56,200 Speaker 3: Yes, in Forest Row there's a fantastic fishmonga Vis's, so we, yeah, 394 00:20:56,200 --> 00:20:57,960 Speaker 3: we get our fish from there. And we used to 395 00:20:57,960 --> 00:21:02,000 Speaker 3: live in Brighton. You know my shepeas, That's what I telled, 396 00:21:03,520 --> 00:21:06,560 Speaker 3: I love a pee, I love my sheepee's. There was 397 00:21:06,680 --> 00:21:10,320 Speaker 3: one fish and chip shop on the tram stop near 398 00:21:10,400 --> 00:21:13,680 Speaker 3: my school, my high school, and I discovered us going 399 00:21:13,720 --> 00:21:17,080 Speaker 3: out with a skinhead at the time, and he took 400 00:21:17,160 --> 00:21:20,840 Speaker 3: me there and I had my first mushy peas and chips. 401 00:21:22,040 --> 00:21:25,760 Speaker 2: Yeah, and they're not Those don't need to be like 402 00:21:26,280 --> 00:21:27,359 Speaker 2: freshly picked peas do. 403 00:21:27,520 --> 00:21:29,960 Speaker 3: They can be better if they are, let's face it. 404 00:21:30,520 --> 00:21:32,040 Speaker 3: But the one of the first ones I had were 405 00:21:32,080 --> 00:21:32,840 Speaker 3: not did you. 406 00:21:33,240 --> 00:21:35,560 Speaker 2: Enjoy going out to eat? Was that something in your 407 00:21:35,600 --> 00:21:38,800 Speaker 2: culture that you'd go to eat for a special occasion. 408 00:21:39,080 --> 00:21:41,600 Speaker 3: We did when my father was alive. We went to 409 00:21:41,680 --> 00:21:44,240 Speaker 3: I had a lot of a lot of Asian restaurants 410 00:21:44,640 --> 00:21:48,040 Speaker 3: and my father and I never really got to speak 411 00:21:48,080 --> 00:21:51,040 Speaker 3: to him about this as an adult, but he had 412 00:21:51,040 --> 00:21:54,720 Speaker 3: a lot of Japanese lithographs and books of haiku poetry, 413 00:21:54,880 --> 00:21:57,080 Speaker 3: and I think he must have traveled through Japan quite 414 00:21:57,080 --> 00:21:59,800 Speaker 3: a lot. So there weren't very many Japanese restaurants when 415 00:21:59,840 --> 00:22:02,199 Speaker 3: I was growing up, but I remember going to several 416 00:22:02,720 --> 00:22:04,840 Speaker 3: with him and eating a lot of Chinese food, and 417 00:22:04,880 --> 00:22:06,600 Speaker 3: the first time I had fried ice cream it was 418 00:22:06,680 --> 00:22:08,800 Speaker 3: just miraculous. So the first time I had raw fish 419 00:22:09,640 --> 00:22:13,000 Speaker 3: was amazing, and I just loved the beauty and precision 420 00:22:13,640 --> 00:22:19,240 Speaker 3: of the Japanese culture, and so I remember those experiences. 421 00:22:19,280 --> 00:22:21,560 Speaker 3: And when I went to drama school, I didn't have 422 00:22:21,560 --> 00:22:25,359 Speaker 3: a penny, but a girl who was in the directing course. 423 00:22:25,560 --> 00:22:31,040 Speaker 3: Was married to a Qcourne in Sydney at the National Institute, 424 00:22:31,440 --> 00:22:33,720 Speaker 3: and we used to sneak away and go and have 425 00:22:34,080 --> 00:22:37,879 Speaker 3: sake and a little bit of sashimi at lunchtime and 426 00:22:37,960 --> 00:22:38,679 Speaker 3: that seemed so. 427 00:22:40,400 --> 00:22:43,560 Speaker 4: Yeah, so chic and you know, extravagant. 428 00:22:43,800 --> 00:22:47,679 Speaker 2: Do you remember when you started acting how that married 429 00:22:47,760 --> 00:22:50,159 Speaker 2: with your wife? How did that affect your food? I mean, 430 00:22:50,240 --> 00:22:52,199 Speaker 2: did you meet a different way? Did you go out 431 00:22:52,240 --> 00:22:53,080 Speaker 2: to more restaurants? 432 00:22:53,200 --> 00:22:55,760 Speaker 3: I mean my first job, actually out of drama school, 433 00:22:55,840 --> 00:22:59,320 Speaker 3: I worked in the catering truck on a television show 434 00:22:59,560 --> 00:23:02,240 Speaker 3: because I wasn't working as an actor, and it was 435 00:23:02,440 --> 00:23:06,160 Speaker 3: my first entry into the film world, so I didn't 436 00:23:06,240 --> 00:23:09,000 Speaker 3: It was like this distraction that was happening that was 437 00:23:09,040 --> 00:23:11,520 Speaker 3: so frustrating, being in the catering truck trying to get 438 00:23:11,760 --> 00:23:14,520 Speaker 3: breakfast out and lunch out, and you know, in the 439 00:23:14,600 --> 00:23:18,440 Speaker 3: afternoon whatever it was called that we had to keep 440 00:23:18,520 --> 00:23:21,320 Speaker 3: stopping because they were doing this annoying thing called filming, 441 00:23:21,520 --> 00:23:24,840 Speaker 3: but they kept turning over. It was like, guys, how 442 00:23:24,880 --> 00:23:27,240 Speaker 3: are we going to get the cheese cake ready? And 443 00:23:27,320 --> 00:23:29,840 Speaker 3: then and then eventually I ended up on the other side. 444 00:23:30,280 --> 00:23:33,440 Speaker 3: But I had a real love and respect for the 445 00:23:33,560 --> 00:23:36,680 Speaker 3: difficulty of working in the you know, the catering van 446 00:23:36,800 --> 00:23:39,240 Speaker 3: and how you know it can be thankless. 447 00:23:42,200 --> 00:23:45,359 Speaker 2: Imagine estate bottled olive oil chosen and bottled for the 448 00:23:45,480 --> 00:23:49,840 Speaker 2: River Cafe, arriving at your door every month. Our subscription 449 00:23:50,080 --> 00:23:53,600 Speaker 2: is available for six or twelve months, with each oil 450 00:23:53,800 --> 00:23:57,600 Speaker 2: chosen personally by our head chefs and varying with each delivery. 451 00:23:58,240 --> 00:24:00,959 Speaker 2: It's a perfect way to bring some a cafe flavor 452 00:24:01,119 --> 00:24:04,080 Speaker 2: into your home, or to show someone you really care 453 00:24:04,160 --> 00:24:07,720 Speaker 2: for them with the gift. Visit our website shop the 454 00:24:07,840 --> 00:24:11,040 Speaker 2: River Cafe dot co dot uk to place your order. 455 00:24:11,160 --> 00:24:20,240 Speaker 3: Now, when I came here, we'd always wanted to have 456 00:24:20,320 --> 00:24:23,119 Speaker 3: a garden, We'd always wanted to grow things. I've got 457 00:24:23,200 --> 00:24:26,000 Speaker 3: brown thumbs. My mother and my grandmother had very very 458 00:24:26,080 --> 00:24:28,560 Speaker 3: green thumbs. And now my mother lives with us. 459 00:24:28,600 --> 00:24:32,879 Speaker 2: And I was saying, a brown thumb as well, green being. 460 00:24:32,920 --> 00:24:35,760 Speaker 3: Big, grow well, and I touched something and it just goes. 461 00:24:37,560 --> 00:24:40,480 Speaker 3: I know it is, but this is changing slowly, and 462 00:24:40,600 --> 00:24:43,720 Speaker 3: so it's been so fantastic. I think too, because I 463 00:24:43,760 --> 00:24:46,040 Speaker 3: grew up with my grandmother. Now that my mother is 464 00:24:46,080 --> 00:24:47,639 Speaker 3: living with us, I'm with you. 465 00:24:48,320 --> 00:24:49,000 Speaker 2: They lived with us. 466 00:24:49,080 --> 00:24:52,639 Speaker 4: Oh really, it's great. It's great having a multi generational household. 467 00:24:52,720 --> 00:24:54,240 Speaker 4: That's great, saying. 468 00:24:54,040 --> 00:24:56,640 Speaker 2: There's always my little My son when he was little 469 00:24:56,760 --> 00:24:59,320 Speaker 2: used to try and wake us up. It's a bog, 470 00:24:59,560 --> 00:25:01,320 Speaker 2: you know, going back to sleep. And then we'd hear 471 00:25:01,400 --> 00:25:04,320 Speaker 2: him go downstairs. He'd say to his brother, can you 472 00:25:04,359 --> 00:25:06,200 Speaker 2: wake up? And you say, I'll go back to sleep. 473 00:25:06,200 --> 00:25:07,639 Speaker 2: And then we hear go all the way down to 474 00:25:07,720 --> 00:25:09,919 Speaker 2: my mom and she'd opened the door and say, hi, bo, 475 00:25:10,040 --> 00:25:10,880 Speaker 2: I want to make a cake. 476 00:25:11,240 --> 00:25:16,639 Speaker 4: You know in the morning, what every child wants to. 477 00:25:17,600 --> 00:25:20,119 Speaker 3: But it's I know from you probably know this with 478 00:25:20,240 --> 00:25:23,040 Speaker 3: your grandmother, is that you talk so differently to your 479 00:25:23,119 --> 00:25:25,800 Speaker 3: grandparents than you do to your parents, and and that 480 00:25:25,960 --> 00:25:29,920 Speaker 3: that you can't tell everything to one person sometimes, you know, 481 00:25:30,240 --> 00:25:33,040 Speaker 3: we are different things with different people. But anyway, so 482 00:25:33,040 --> 00:25:35,879 Speaker 3: I'm having my mum in that house has been great, sod. 483 00:25:36,480 --> 00:25:37,000 Speaker 4: Yeah, she does. 484 00:25:37,040 --> 00:25:40,320 Speaker 3: She's got her own garden, but also together where we've 485 00:25:40,760 --> 00:25:44,119 Speaker 3: just reinstated a walled garden that used to be there. 486 00:25:44,160 --> 00:25:46,600 Speaker 3: Because the house we're living in was derelict for many, 487 00:25:46,680 --> 00:25:49,480 Speaker 3: many years, and so when we part in Lockdown, we 488 00:25:49,600 --> 00:25:52,239 Speaker 3: realized that under a lot of rubble and mud, there 489 00:25:52,320 --> 00:25:56,240 Speaker 3: was a greenhouse. So we we restored it and then 490 00:25:56,680 --> 00:25:58,800 Speaker 3: we saw an aerial shot of the house or the 491 00:25:58,880 --> 00:26:01,800 Speaker 3: block of land in the forties, and so we've rebuilt 492 00:26:01,840 --> 00:26:04,359 Speaker 3: along the lines of where the war garden used to be. 493 00:26:04,720 --> 00:26:07,680 Speaker 4: And it's a learning curve. It keeps you humble. You 494 00:26:07,800 --> 00:26:13,200 Speaker 4: must humility because patient you don't have control over it. 495 00:26:13,280 --> 00:26:16,399 Speaker 3: There, yes, and weather, yeah, and also I mean I 496 00:26:16,440 --> 00:26:18,600 Speaker 3: think it's just that thing of knowing that the certain 497 00:26:18,640 --> 00:26:20,840 Speaker 3: moths are going to come. And so we're not having 498 00:26:20,880 --> 00:26:23,399 Speaker 3: a lot of luck with broccoli and cauliflower, but Brussels 499 00:26:23,400 --> 00:26:26,200 Speaker 3: sprouts are okay, And so you cook with what you've 500 00:26:26,720 --> 00:26:27,840 Speaker 3: what you gather that day. 501 00:26:28,320 --> 00:26:30,000 Speaker 2: So when you said we were, when you said we 502 00:26:30,119 --> 00:26:32,000 Speaker 2: were going to do this today, I thought, well, okay, 503 00:26:32,160 --> 00:26:36,280 Speaker 2: we'll come and we'll have a conversation ali saki tasting. 504 00:26:36,600 --> 00:26:40,720 Speaker 2: So how did saki come? How did this happen? 505 00:26:41,400 --> 00:26:43,880 Speaker 3: Well, it's sort of it started a long time ago, 506 00:26:43,960 --> 00:26:46,240 Speaker 3: I think. I mean, you know, my mother and father 507 00:26:46,640 --> 00:26:49,879 Speaker 3: drank sak when we went out to Japanese restaurants, and 508 00:26:49,960 --> 00:26:52,200 Speaker 3: that was you know, to have to have a drink 509 00:26:52,280 --> 00:26:54,440 Speaker 3: in a tiny little cup. I mean, I found all 510 00:26:54,560 --> 00:26:59,400 Speaker 3: of the elements, so beautiful. And I've always loved ceramics 511 00:26:59,440 --> 00:27:03,000 Speaker 3: since I was with the ecouchement around it. And then 512 00:27:03,040 --> 00:27:05,880 Speaker 3: I worked with the Japanese skincare company This is years ago, 513 00:27:06,200 --> 00:27:09,159 Speaker 3: for about fifteen years, and we would go to Japan 514 00:27:09,359 --> 00:27:13,320 Speaker 3: a lot, and the active ingredients in the skincare was 515 00:27:14,080 --> 00:27:19,680 Speaker 3: found when during the rice polishing process, you know, because 516 00:27:19,680 --> 00:27:22,480 Speaker 3: obviously and this one is a junm daginjo, which is 517 00:27:22,520 --> 00:27:27,440 Speaker 3: a highly polished rice, and that made the people who 518 00:27:27,480 --> 00:27:30,000 Speaker 3: were working with the rice their hands were just like 519 00:27:30,320 --> 00:27:31,160 Speaker 3: infant's hands. 520 00:27:31,240 --> 00:27:33,920 Speaker 4: The skin was amazing. But as a result, I went. 521 00:27:33,880 --> 00:27:37,280 Speaker 3: To a lot of breweries and I got really fascinated 522 00:27:37,359 --> 00:27:41,280 Speaker 3: with the fermentation process and the fact that sake is 523 00:27:41,400 --> 00:27:43,520 Speaker 3: brewed like a beer but drunk like a wine. And 524 00:27:43,920 --> 00:27:46,400 Speaker 3: I thought, well, I often drink it when I'm having 525 00:27:46,480 --> 00:27:49,879 Speaker 3: Italian food because there's a purity and simplicity to you know, 526 00:27:50,000 --> 00:27:53,400 Speaker 3: particularly to the way you serve it up that also 527 00:27:53,560 --> 00:27:58,200 Speaker 3: is quite twinned to the purity and simplicity of Japanese food, 528 00:27:58,800 --> 00:28:01,159 Speaker 3: and I thought I would love to be part of 529 00:28:01,280 --> 00:28:04,520 Speaker 3: trying to bring that to to Western cuisine. 530 00:28:05,000 --> 00:28:06,480 Speaker 4: Yeah, I have to pour for you. 531 00:28:07,800 --> 00:28:11,200 Speaker 2: What is the ritual? Is there it's at the right temperature. 532 00:28:11,640 --> 00:28:16,760 Speaker 2: You don't drink it hot. With the first Japanese restaurant, 533 00:28:16,840 --> 00:28:18,200 Speaker 2: let's say, do you want it hard or do you 534 00:28:18,280 --> 00:28:19,719 Speaker 2: want it? Oh? Right? 535 00:28:20,040 --> 00:28:21,920 Speaker 4: Yeah, Well the first time I had it was it 536 00:28:22,040 --> 00:28:22,400 Speaker 4: was hot. 537 00:28:22,480 --> 00:28:24,920 Speaker 3: But because this is such a when the more highly 538 00:28:25,000 --> 00:28:28,840 Speaker 3: polished it is, and this is really highly polished. 539 00:28:28,840 --> 00:28:31,360 Speaker 4: It's polished to thirty five percent. For what that's worth. 540 00:28:32,240 --> 00:28:34,199 Speaker 4: It has such a refined. 541 00:28:35,880 --> 00:28:37,720 Speaker 3: Flavor that you don't you don't want to heat it 542 00:28:37,800 --> 00:28:41,200 Speaker 3: because it would take all that that complication away. 543 00:28:41,280 --> 00:28:45,720 Speaker 4: Beautiful. Well, yeah, I've always drunk drunk it in. 544 00:28:47,480 --> 00:28:51,560 Speaker 3: A like in a little vessel, the ceramic, but there's 545 00:28:51,560 --> 00:28:54,360 Speaker 3: something about you can you can smell it better, I think, 546 00:28:54,440 --> 00:28:56,960 Speaker 3: And it doesn't feel so much like a spirit. 547 00:28:57,160 --> 00:29:02,760 Speaker 2: That's nice to you that you're here. It's more saki together. 548 00:29:04,440 --> 00:29:06,200 Speaker 2: And do you go to Japan? You go where they 549 00:29:06,280 --> 00:29:07,320 Speaker 2: make it? Have you been? 550 00:29:07,720 --> 00:29:07,920 Speaker 1: Yes? 551 00:29:08,400 --> 00:29:12,400 Speaker 3: Yeah, it's been amazing actually being part of the the 552 00:29:13,000 --> 00:29:17,000 Speaker 3: process of of seeing it made and and it's it's 553 00:29:17,200 --> 00:29:22,520 Speaker 3: aged in a very cold environment too, so it's really good. 554 00:29:22,720 --> 00:29:23,680 Speaker 2: How would you describe it? 555 00:29:24,680 --> 00:29:26,680 Speaker 4: I think it's fruity, but it's not too sweet. 556 00:29:27,360 --> 00:29:32,600 Speaker 2: It isn't I think you described the saki in very 557 00:29:32,720 --> 00:29:35,360 Speaker 2: visual terms as well as taste terms. 558 00:29:35,680 --> 00:29:40,840 Speaker 4: I always wanted to to to paint like I always 559 00:29:40,880 --> 00:29:41,560 Speaker 4: wanted to dance. 560 00:29:41,920 --> 00:29:44,120 Speaker 2: And by the way, can I just interrupt you for 561 00:29:44,200 --> 00:29:46,040 Speaker 2: a minute and say, those splits. 562 00:29:46,520 --> 00:29:48,240 Speaker 4: Sea girl, I'm still suffering. 563 00:29:48,480 --> 00:29:49,160 Speaker 2: I don't. 564 00:29:51,040 --> 00:29:51,080 Speaker 4: Know. 565 00:29:51,920 --> 00:29:55,880 Speaker 2: I had. The whole performance was kind of the revelation 566 00:29:56,200 --> 00:29:59,120 Speaker 2: of what you could. It was hard to take it. 567 00:29:59,200 --> 00:30:01,760 Speaker 2: But when you came and did those splits. 568 00:30:02,080 --> 00:30:08,640 Speaker 4: A joke, that was as. 569 00:30:09,120 --> 00:30:12,080 Speaker 3: Yeah, I think I'm quite I make more sense in movement. 570 00:30:12,560 --> 00:30:14,360 Speaker 3: I think, you know, it's taken me a long time 571 00:30:14,440 --> 00:30:17,640 Speaker 3: to get used to being sort of in a two 572 00:30:17,720 --> 00:30:21,520 Speaker 3: dimensional medium or being photographed is always I have to 573 00:30:21,560 --> 00:30:24,440 Speaker 3: sort of trick myself into feeling comfortable. But yeah, it 574 00:30:24,560 --> 00:30:26,880 Speaker 3: ended up being quite quite physical. 575 00:30:28,720 --> 00:30:34,680 Speaker 2: And conducting is physical, Yeah, dancing actually dancing your arms, 576 00:30:34,800 --> 00:30:35,280 Speaker 2: your legs. 577 00:30:36,160 --> 00:30:40,360 Speaker 3: I mean, there's an amazing choreographer who also dances called 578 00:30:40,480 --> 00:30:45,080 Speaker 3: Xavier le Roi. He watched Simon Rattle conduct The Right 579 00:30:45,160 --> 00:30:48,640 Speaker 3: of Spring, and when he can, i mean, every every 580 00:30:48,960 --> 00:30:52,600 Speaker 3: strand of hair is flying. He's such an incredible creature 581 00:30:52,640 --> 00:30:56,960 Speaker 3: when he conducts. And he took that that he's active 582 00:30:57,000 --> 00:31:00,760 Speaker 3: conducting and turned it into a piece of choreography. And actually, 583 00:31:00,800 --> 00:31:03,720 Speaker 3: when I was playing tar in Toddfields. 584 00:31:03,320 --> 00:31:04,480 Speaker 2: I wanted to ask you about that. 585 00:31:05,240 --> 00:31:07,920 Speaker 3: I watched that piece of that dance and it was 586 00:31:08,040 --> 00:31:11,960 Speaker 3: totally free, and so I saw it the conducting as 587 00:31:12,000 --> 00:31:16,760 Speaker 3: a kinetic response like dances to music auto silence, you know, 588 00:31:16,920 --> 00:31:18,560 Speaker 3: and so that I found it quite liberating. 589 00:31:19,200 --> 00:31:22,160 Speaker 2: When we think about food, we think about food as 590 00:31:22,200 --> 00:31:24,520 Speaker 2: you talked about your father and the memory of him 591 00:31:24,800 --> 00:31:28,400 Speaker 2: in Australia entertaining me as a thirteen year old and 592 00:31:28,480 --> 00:31:32,000 Speaker 2: then tasting a delicious tomato, and then we've just said, 593 00:31:32,080 --> 00:31:35,080 Speaker 2: right now, food is all that, but it's also comfort. 594 00:31:35,200 --> 00:31:37,000 Speaker 2: And so I was wondering if you could just tell 595 00:31:37,040 --> 00:31:40,760 Speaker 2: me before you say goodbye, what if you need comfort, 596 00:31:41,120 --> 00:31:44,040 Speaker 2: If you do want food as comfort, is there something 597 00:31:44,760 --> 00:31:47,920 Speaker 2: that you would reach for or cook or buy. 598 00:31:48,720 --> 00:31:52,200 Speaker 3: I think in the end it would be it would 599 00:31:52,240 --> 00:31:55,160 Speaker 3: be a soup. It would be a soup. And I 600 00:31:55,240 --> 00:32:00,840 Speaker 3: think really good soups often take time to make. So 601 00:32:01,080 --> 00:32:02,480 Speaker 3: you have you first of all, you have to do 602 00:32:02,560 --> 00:32:05,040 Speaker 3: the onions and the garlic, and then you have to 603 00:32:05,240 --> 00:32:08,600 Speaker 3: you know, put certain vegetables root vegetables in first, and 604 00:32:08,680 --> 00:32:11,959 Speaker 3: you have to let it simmer, and I'm quite impatient, 605 00:32:12,080 --> 00:32:16,480 Speaker 3: which is why I'm really relishing Starting a Garden, because 606 00:32:16,520 --> 00:32:20,040 Speaker 3: it's teaching me humility and patience. But there's something about 607 00:32:20,080 --> 00:32:21,880 Speaker 3: making a soup that you just have to let it 608 00:32:22,000 --> 00:32:24,400 Speaker 3: sit and you have to let it rest. And there's 609 00:32:24,440 --> 00:32:26,920 Speaker 3: one soup I talk about food waste I can't which 610 00:32:26,920 --> 00:32:31,440 Speaker 3: I can't stand. I get ribbed a lot about it 611 00:32:31,520 --> 00:32:34,960 Speaker 3: by my boys. But you know that that two or 612 00:32:35,000 --> 00:32:38,200 Speaker 3: three day old bread that is otherwise going to go 613 00:32:38,240 --> 00:32:40,680 Speaker 3: into the bins, you chop it up and you make 614 00:32:40,760 --> 00:32:45,160 Speaker 3: that fantastic soup with tomatoes and onions, and it makes 615 00:32:45,200 --> 00:32:46,640 Speaker 3: the bread go quite cheesy. 616 00:32:46,760 --> 00:32:48,800 Speaker 2: The cat they called Papa Pomora. 617 00:32:49,040 --> 00:32:52,400 Speaker 3: Yes, I love it, and I made it. I made 618 00:32:52,440 --> 00:32:53,960 Speaker 3: it over the weekend because we had a lot of 619 00:32:54,000 --> 00:32:54,520 Speaker 3: white bread. 620 00:32:54,560 --> 00:32:58,040 Speaker 2: That was some they did and fantastically in the summer 621 00:32:58,120 --> 00:33:00,400 Speaker 2: when the tomatoes are very ripe, and then in the 622 00:33:00,480 --> 00:33:03,720 Speaker 2: winter they actually caught ribolita, which means a kind of 623 00:33:04,960 --> 00:33:08,400 Speaker 2: basic minestrone. Very often it just has cavalo narrow, which 624 00:33:08,440 --> 00:33:11,600 Speaker 2: is a kind of and beans and then you add 625 00:33:11,640 --> 00:33:14,960 Speaker 2: the bread and then it expands and then it's called rebelita. 626 00:33:15,000 --> 00:33:21,160 Speaker 2: It's one of my favorite we have cool. Yeah, it's good. 627 00:33:21,760 --> 00:33:22,840 Speaker 2: Thank you, Kate, thank you 628 00:33:28,960 --> 00:33:32,040 Speaker 1: Thank you for listening to Ruthie's Table for in partnership 629 00:33:32,120 --> 00:33:32,720 Speaker 1: with Montclair