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Speaker 1: Welcome to the Tutor Dixon Podcast. Today, we are going

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Speaker 1: to be talking about an increasingly bigger problem in the

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Speaker 1: United States every single day, and that is homelessness.

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Speaker 2: We have an expert with us today.

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Speaker 1: Her name is Michelle Steve and she actually authored a

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Speaker 1: book recently in the last few years called Answers Behind

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Speaker 1: the Red Door, Battling the Homelessness Epidemic. It's something that

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Speaker 1: Michelle has dealt with for years. You've worked in California

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Speaker 1: thirteen years as the CEO of Northern California's largest program,

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Speaker 1: and now you work on another program. You have a

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Speaker 1: foundation and you work with Discovery Institute. I want to

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Speaker 1: talk to you about this issue today because I think

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Speaker 1: a lot of people feel like there's not really an answer,

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Speaker 1: but you have come up with an answer.

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Speaker 3: Well, there's more than one answer, but the answer that

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Speaker 3: there is not is the approach that we've been under

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Speaker 3: for the last twelve years. It's an approach called Housing First.

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Speaker 3: I'll explain what that is in a second, but this

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Speaker 3: approach was designed for a very small segment of the

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Speaker 3: homeless population ten to twenty percent, called the chronically homeless,

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Speaker 3: and the George W. Bush administration introduced it in two

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Speaker 3: thousand and eight for that population. However, in twenty thirteen,

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Speaker 3: without any evidence that it would work as a one

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Speaker 3: size fits all approach to homelessness, the Obama administration rolled

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Speaker 3: it out again as a one size fits all and

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Speaker 3: they promised, they literally promised, he did in writing that

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Speaker 3: it would end homelessness in a decade. And here we

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Speaker 3: are twelve years later. We're at the highest point ever

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Speaker 3: in our nation's history. It's up thirty almost thirty five percent.

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Speaker 3: It's been a disaster at every level of the system.

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Speaker 3: It's destroyed lives, it's destroyed communities, and it just thankfully

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Speaker 3: this president has said enough enough. He's with his executive

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Speaker 3: order several weeks ago, has as I described it, turned

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Speaker 3: the battleship in the right direction. But we now need

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Speaker 3: to build a system that is going to help people

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Speaker 3: actually get treatment and recover, which they can do. It's

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Speaker 3: the reason I wrote the book. I have tremendous hope

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Speaker 3: this can be turned around at the individual level and

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Speaker 3: at the systemic level. And I'm looking forward to our

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Speaker 3: discussion today.

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Speaker 2: Well, I think that what you said is true.

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Speaker 1: I think there is We do have a president now

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Speaker 1: who's looking at this in a different way. But you

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Speaker 1: are also fighting a bureaucracy across this country, and you

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Speaker 1: know that better than most In California. I mean, I

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Speaker 1: remember we were working out in San Francisco in twenty eighteen,

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Speaker 1: and I think back then just the city of San

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Speaker 1: Francisco had six hundred million dedicated to homelessness every year

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Speaker 1: and that was to like fifteen thousand homeless people in

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Speaker 1: the city of San Francisco. This is, to me, the

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Speaker 1: question is, once you get to a point where you

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Speaker 1: have a government agency that has a six hundred million

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Speaker 1: dollar budget, who wants to shut down their own department?

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Speaker 2: Right, why does homelessness not end?

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Speaker 1: I mean, maybe it's because people are making a lot

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Speaker 1: of money on homelessness.

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Speaker 3: Well, you're exactly right. In fact, I just posted today

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Speaker 3: in San Francisco alone, there are twelve nonprofits under investigation

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Speaker 3: homeless serving nonprofits under investigation for misuse of funds and

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Speaker 3: or fraud in LA.

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Speaker 1: I just wait, wait, wait, are these just a question?

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Speaker 1: When you say misuse of funds? Are those nonprofits getting

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Speaker 1: taxpayer funds?

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Speaker 3: Oh? Yes, absolutely? And then in LA the agency that

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Speaker 3: oversees homelessness at the county, at the COC level. Karen

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Speaker 3: Bass's best friend was appointed to head up that agency,

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Speaker 3: and she mysteriously left after about I don't know a year,

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Speaker 3: a year and a half. And it turns out that

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Speaker 3: there was a lot of misuse of funds. There were

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Speaker 3: some whistleblowers who called that to attention. That's now being investigated.

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Speaker 3: And one of the misuses of funds is that she

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Speaker 3: hired a contractor who within a day of his being

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Speaker 3: on board, gave her a lap dance. I'd love to

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Speaker 3: see the scope of work in that contract.

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Speaker 2: WHOA that was not where I thought that was going

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Speaker 2: to go. That's oh yeah, crazy.

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Speaker 3: Yes, So there's you know that the problem with the system.

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Speaker 3: So let me describe what housing first. Housing first says.

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Speaker 3: We need to put everyone who experiences homelessness in a

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Speaker 3: housing unit for life, without any conditions, without any conditions.

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Speaker 2: So nobody helping them.

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Speaker 1: This is not like a health institution where people are

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Speaker 1: actually getting rehab or being taken care of. They're providing

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Speaker 1: a home, which, in my experience or from what I've

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Speaker 1: been told, it's not that they just need.

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Speaker 2: A place to live.

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Speaker 1: There are many different factors as to why they are homeless.

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Speaker 1: So it's not like you're going to build a bunch

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Speaker 1: of housing and put people there and walk away from

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Speaker 1: them and their lives are going to improve.

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Speaker 3: Well, that's exactly what the philosophy wasn't. Again, President Obama

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Speaker 3: promised this would end homelessness in a decade. The fallacy

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Speaker 3: is they believed that once the homeless were housed, they

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Speaker 3: would all of a sudden desire services and they could

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Speaker 3: request those services. But what no one talks about is

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Speaker 3: again when they rolled out housing first as a one

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Speaker 3: size fits all approach in twenty thirteen, ud actually defunded

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Speaker 3: services like mental health treatment, drug and alcohol counseling, employment training,

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Speaker 3: and they put all of that money into housing subsidies.

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Speaker 1: So they take away the services and use that money

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Speaker 1: to build buildings.

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Speaker 3: Well, to fund further housing subsidies. Build buildings was part

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Speaker 3: of it as well, but all of it, All of

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Speaker 3: that money went into housing. And again the results are

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Speaker 3: that despite the promise it would end in ten years,

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Speaker 3: it's up thirty five percent. What people don't understand is

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Speaker 3: that when about eighty percent of the homeless population are

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Speaker 3: struggling with mental illness and or addiction, when they are

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Speaker 3: struggling with those diseases. They're often struggling with another disease

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Speaker 3: of the brain classified by CDC, which is called anisygnosia,

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Speaker 3: and that's a deficit of self awareness. So the notion

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Speaker 3: that they're going to be placed into housing and all

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Speaker 3: of a sudden it's going to become clear that they

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Speaker 3: have an addiction problem or that they really struggle with

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Speaker 3: severe mental illness, that's a fallacy. There's a study, the

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Speaker 3: only long term study that we've been able to find

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Speaker 3: that was done in Boston that followed the chronically homeless

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Speaker 3: placed in housing for over ten years. After year five,

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Speaker 3: nearly fifty percent of the cohort died. They did not

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Speaker 3: decide that they wanted treatment. They did not decide.

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Speaker 2: That they died of drug overdoses or what happened.

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Speaker 3: There's a myriad of causes. You know, I can send

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Speaker 3: you the study, but it was largely untreated mental illness

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Speaker 3: and addiction. Right, These are diseases of the brain. When

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Speaker 3: diseases go untreated, they get worse. And that's what happens.

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Speaker 3: When we stick people in a house, we isolate them

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Speaker 3: from community, which is what individual housing units does, and

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Speaker 3: when we expect them to all of a sudden gain

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Speaker 3: some you know, miraculous clarity that they really need help.

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Speaker 3: It's just not happening.

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Speaker 1: The other day, the President talked about bringing mental health

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Speaker 1: institutions back.

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Speaker 2: What is your opinion of that.

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Speaker 3: Well, I want to clarify, you know, at the federal level,

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Speaker 3: we didn't deal with mental health at all. It was

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Speaker 3: really left to the states and to you know, communities.

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Speaker 3: But under JFK he had some advisors who were physicians,

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Speaker 3: not really even experts in mental illness, who convinced him

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Speaker 3: to build a mental health system at the federal level.

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Speaker 3: To drive it at the federal level, it was Reagan

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Speaker 3: who indeed shut these institutions down because the outcomes were

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Speaker 3: so poor. And the intention was I don't know what happened,

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Speaker 3: but the intention was that Congress would come up with

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Speaker 3: a new system. But those institutions weren't shut down because

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Speaker 3: Reagan was a horrible guy. He shut them down because

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Speaker 3: the outcomes were horrible. So to your question, Tittor, if

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Speaker 3: we do need to build a lot more mental health capacity,

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Speaker 3: but we don't need to go back to the system

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Speaker 3: that was developed in the sixties that failed, you know,

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Speaker 3: those struggling with mental illness in a massive way.

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Speaker 1: You dealt with a lot of women and children, and

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Speaker 1: obviously children in this situation is devastating, and we've seen

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Speaker 1: it out on the streets. We've seen people whole families

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Speaker 1: living in encampments on the streets. What was what did

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Speaker 1: you see was helping the most with women who were

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Speaker 1: homeless and they were trying to raise their children on

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Speaker 1: the streets.

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Speaker 3: Well, there's a lot of so let me step back,

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Speaker 3: and I shared earlier the data around the overall homeless

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Speaker 3: population our women and we I mean I probably served

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Speaker 3: in my time, my thirteen years, there about fifteen thousand

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Speaker 3: women and children. Seventy eight percent of our women were

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Speaker 3: struggling with addiction, seventy percent with domestic violence, sixty eight

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Speaker 3: percent with criminal histories, seventy percent mental illness, fifty five

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Speaker 3: percent didn't have a high school diploma or ged right.

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Speaker 3: So our program was a twelve eighteen month comprehensive program

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Speaker 3: that help them address all of those issues in an

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Speaker 3: accountability ober environment that is really really crucial all of

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Speaker 3: the if even if you want to get better in

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Speaker 3: this current system, again, the system the president has you know,

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Speaker 3: asked us on the front lines to change. Even if

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Speaker 3: you want to get better. Your next door neighbor is

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Speaker 3: likely using because he or she can. It is really

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Speaker 3: hard to recover and to you know, get on a

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Speaker 3: different path when you're surrounded by chaos and drugs and

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Speaker 3: people that are whose mental illness is not being treated.

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Speaker 3: So that's the whole system that we've built in the

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Speaker 3: last twelve years, and that's the system we have to

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Speaker 3: get rid of and rebuild under the President's executive orders.

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Speaker 3: At Saint John's the program Iran, we had mental health counseling,

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Speaker 3: We had drug and alcohol counseling. I actually started to

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Speaker 3: rest on in a daycare program that were hands on

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Speaker 3: employment training programs for the women and children. We had

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Speaker 3: a robust children's program. We had, you know, an ability

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Speaker 3: for them to get a bank account, to create a budget,

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Speaker 3: to start to save money, to pay off fines. A

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Speaker 3: lot of the homeless have years of fines that they're

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Speaker 3: maybe not even aware of, but you want to get

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Speaker 3: them aware of those early on, so that when they

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Speaker 3: do get a job and they're in stable housing, their

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Speaker 3: wages or not all of a sudden garnished because the

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Speaker 3: IRS or whoever whatever agency has caught up with them.

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Speaker 3: You've got to start to address those things early on.

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Speaker 1: These are fines from like tickets that they've had while

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Speaker 1: there's you know.

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Speaker 3: Streets, the public transportation system without a ticket, parking illegally,

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Speaker 3: driving without a driver's license. And when those fines are

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Speaker 3: not addressed, they accumulate. Right, we were able to at

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Speaker 3: some taken off the books, but a lot of our

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Speaker 3: women just needed to set up a payment plan, you know,

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Speaker 3: very slowly, start to address those things, show show that

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Speaker 3: they wanted to and sometimes and and and get those

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Speaker 3: paid off. And sometimes they were forgiven after the women

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Speaker 3: demonstrated and you know, an eagerness to do that. But

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Speaker 3: all of those things need to be addressed. And so

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Speaker 3: when they're in their own housing, they know how to

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Speaker 3: you know, at our program, the women had chores every day.

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Speaker 3: They were taught how to you know, clean bathrooms, how

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Speaker 3: to you know, prepare dinner, how to clean up after dinner,

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Speaker 3: how to do laundry the proper way, how to you know,

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Speaker 3: think about if they're taking public transportation, planning for that,

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Speaker 3: planning for eventualities that you know they some that you know,

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Speaker 3: something maybe not on time, and then getting to your

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Speaker 3: point and in time. Right, all of those things learning

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Speaker 3: how to talk to a teacher of your child that

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Speaker 3: they've never really been engaged with. So you really can't

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Speaker 3: underestimate the fundamentals, right, the basics, But you also can't

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Speaker 3: underestimate the lack of role models they've had in their

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Speaker 3: lives of people who are working, who are self sustaining

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Speaker 3: and thriving, and we needed to teach all of that

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Speaker 3: under our you know, twelve to eighteen month roof.

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Speaker 2: Let's take a quick commercial break. We'll continue next on

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Speaker 2: a Tutor Dixon podcast.

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Speaker 1: Well, let me ask you. We saw what Donald Trump

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Speaker 1: did in Washington, d C. When he removed the homeless encampments,

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Speaker 1: and I wonder how we got to this point in

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Speaker 1: society where we see these homeless encampments and we say

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Speaker 1: that people living intents on public property is humane and

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Speaker 1: trying to take them out of that situation is inhumane.

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Speaker 1: Because there was a lot of uproar about how can

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Speaker 1: you take these people's property, how can you remove them

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Speaker 1: from this situation? When did we get to the point

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Speaker 1: where we said this is how we want people in

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Speaker 1: the United States living.

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Speaker 2: Because it's really hard to reverse that mindset.

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Speaker 3: Absolutely, And you know what I wish I had an

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Speaker 3: answer for you. The best answer I can come up

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Speaker 3: with is again, when they rolled this out, and you know,

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Speaker 3: Obama was on the front lines, but they had a

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Speaker 3: lot of people behind him saying this is going to

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Speaker 3: end it. And when they realized what a disaster it

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Speaker 3: has been, they don't have a better answer, and so

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Speaker 3: they're sticking to their guns. They keep saying to us,

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Speaker 3: this is evidence based. It just needs more money. By

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Speaker 3: the way, I didn't even mention. Under Housing First, homelessness

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Speaker 3: funding at the federal level went up three hundred percent percent,

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Speaker 3: and they want more money a lack of funding.

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Speaker 1: I'm seeing that this is the highest homelessness ever been

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Speaker 1: in the United.

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Speaker 3: States, yes, ever recorded.

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Speaker 2: And the motion money we've ever spent on it.

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Speaker 3: The most money we've ever spent by far. And the

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Speaker 3: National Alliance and Homelessness and some of you know, I

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Speaker 3: always say the advocates and air quotes, they are suing

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Speaker 3: the Trump administration for addressing this. They just file a

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Speaker 3: lawsuit on Thursday. They're in essence defending status quos.

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Speaker 1: This is what I mean when you come out and

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Speaker 1: you say we want to make sure these people are

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Speaker 1: not living in a terrible situation and Let's face it,

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Speaker 1: when you walk by a homeless encampment, you know that

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Speaker 1: people are being abused, that they are unhealthy, they're not

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Speaker 1: getting healthcare. I mean, the proponents of everybody should have

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Speaker 1: health care, these people don't have health care, and they

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Speaker 1: don't have showers. I mean, there's no health involved in

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Speaker 1: this situation. And yet we have heard stories of people

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Speaker 1: who have worked to get people off the streets and

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Speaker 1: clean up these encampment and can't and they are attacked

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Speaker 1: by radical leftists who say, don't you dare clean up

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Speaker 1: the encampment?

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Speaker 2: Why do you want people living like this?

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Speaker 3: Exactly in Seattle, my friend who runs a fantastic program

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Speaker 3: there called Weeheart Seattle. She and her volunteers, it's volunteer

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Speaker 3: led program who go in and clean up encampments and

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Speaker 3: lead those that we're living in the encampments into treatment.

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Speaker 3: She is under constant physical, verbal, and physical attack because

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Speaker 3: she's helping these individuals in a way that our government

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Speaker 3: has failed them.

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Speaker 1: This is I mean that to me is it's not shocking.

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Speaker 1: I would say it's shocking today I think nothing is shocking, right,

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Speaker 1: But I think it's a sign of how lost we

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Speaker 1: are and how much this propaganda government propaganda, because I

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Speaker 1: believe that this happened with the Obama administration. I think

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Speaker 1: in the first administration of the Trump administration there wasn't

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Speaker 1: an emphasis on homelessness. I don't think there was an

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Speaker 1: emphasis on it in the Biden administration. But I do

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Speaker 1: think that Gavin Newsom has kept it like this because

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Speaker 1: there's a massive amount of funding that goes into these

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Speaker 1: programs and it is a malicious programming now, malicious to

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Speaker 1: keep people in the situation, because if you keep people

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Speaker 1: in the situation, you have to continue to have this program.

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Speaker 3: Well, I fully agree with you, and I would say

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Speaker 3: the other thing is is that voters have become complacent.

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Speaker 3: We need to start holding our elected leaders responsible for

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Speaker 3: their promises. Gavin Newsom in twenty twenty promised, literally stood

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Speaker 3: up and promised to end family homelessness in five years.

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Speaker 3: It is up thirty eight percent now under his watch,

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Speaker 3: and there's no accountability for it. It's just cars.

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Speaker 1: It's not just hurting the people though that are in

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Speaker 1: the homeless encampments. I mean, you have businesses who have

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Speaker 1: said they can't get people to come anymore because they

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Speaker 1: have so many people living on the sidewalk in front

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Speaker 1: of their business. I mean, obviously, gavinknews Some knows it's

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Speaker 1: a problem. When he had the president come in from China,

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Speaker 1: he removed everybody from the streets and.

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Speaker 2: Then where did they go? Nobody ever talked about that.

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Speaker 1: Oh, well, this is important because we've got a communist

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Speaker 1: coming well.

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Speaker 3: And to the accountability point, why didn't anyone hold him

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Speaker 3: accountable when it went back to normal three weeks later

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Speaker 3: after President Chee King.

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Speaker 1: That's yes, exactly, I mean crazy, and what did he do?

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Speaker 1: What did he do in that period of time? Obviously,

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Speaker 1: that to me proves that he knows homelessness is a problem.

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Speaker 1: Gavin Newsome knows that he has let the streets of

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Speaker 1: California become completely out of control, unsafe and unhealthy, totally disgusting,

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Speaker 1: and yet he is unwilling to come out and say

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Speaker 1: he will do something for humanity.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and again endless promises about addressing it. Now he's

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Speaker 3: trying to shift the blame about three or four months ago.

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Speaker 3: He's now saying, we have done enough. We have raised

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Speaker 3: all this money for you. It is up to the

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Speaker 3: local governments to do their and it's you know what,

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Speaker 3: he's not what he's not talking about obviously, and I

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Speaker 3: don't even mention this. When the federal government adopted housing

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Speaker 3: first in twenty thirteen, the state of California doubled down

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Speaker 3: on that. They adopted housing first is their one size

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Speaker 3: fits all approach. In twenty sixteen, Newsom has so all

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Speaker 3: when when federal or state money is spent on homelessness,

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Speaker 3: it's largely spent at the local level. It's distributed at

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Speaker 3: the local level. He has kept a counties and cities

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Speaker 3: under the thumb of housing first. They have no other

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Speaker 3: alternative but to build more housing units and subsidize them

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Speaker 3: with the funding that they get from you know, the state,

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Speaker 3: and thankfully the federal government funding will give them a

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Speaker 3: lot more flexibility now. But he is he has created

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Speaker 3: this problem. It is his problem. He has documented a

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Speaker 3: million times as saying he, you know, was making it

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Speaker 3: a priority, he was going to end it. But no

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Speaker 3: one's holding Hi accountable. So, you know, at the end

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Speaker 3: of the day, we need to start holding people accountable

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Speaker 3: for you know, the results, the outcomes of the policies

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Speaker 3: they support, and accountable for shifting gears when it's not working.

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Speaker 1: It's something we don't want to talk about I think

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Speaker 1: because we have so many people in this situation that

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Speaker 1: have lost contact with their loved ones. It's not necessarily

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Speaker 1: something that every family deals with. It's not It's kind

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Speaker 1: of an out of sight, out of mind to the

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Speaker 1: point where I read an article this morning that said

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Speaker 1: the city of Kalamazoo is actually in Michigan, is actually

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Speaker 1: putting people on a bus with ten thousand dollars and

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Speaker 1: just shipping them out of town. And people are like,

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Speaker 1: where are they going? And I think it's kind of

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Speaker 1: an out of sight, out of mind. Oh, we took

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Speaker 1: care of it. They're not here anymore, okay. But on

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Speaker 1: the human aspect of this, where are they? Oh, we

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Speaker 1: got them back with family, We got them with a program.

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Speaker 1: I don't believe that for a second. So take us

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Speaker 1: through a little bit. If you do have this situation

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Speaker 1: where you're dealing with a mom, she comes in with kids.

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Speaker 2: Every situation is different. I know that.

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Speaker 1: I think that that is part of the problem, is

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Speaker 1: that every dynamic, every person has different dynamics.

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Speaker 2: But when you see that, how do you combat it?

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Speaker 2: What do you go? How do you immediately respond?

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Speaker 3: Well, you got to start with what's the definition of success?

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Speaker 3: Right under the old system, the current system. Housing First,

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Speaker 3: the definition of success is getting someone keys to an

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Speaker 3: apartment unit. That's it. There's no tracking of you know,

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Speaker 3: did they engage in services to make their lives better,

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Speaker 3: did they get a job, did they increase their income?

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Speaker 3: Are their kids in school? None of that is happening.

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Speaker 3: We need to start with a definition of success, which

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Speaker 3: is something to the effect of at Saint John's, it's

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Speaker 3: we wanted to support these women in becoming the primary

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Speaker 3: providers of their families and no longer being dependent on

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Speaker 3: government and on substances, so that they could provide for

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Speaker 3: their families. And that was the path you know, everything

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Speaker 3: we did was the pathway to that. Right. So at

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Speaker 3: the beginning, you need to really focus on stability. And

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Speaker 3: for someone who's struggling with addiction, you cannot talk about,

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Speaker 3: you know, eighteen months ahead. You need to talk about Okay,

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Speaker 3: let's just focus on being sober for an hour, and

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Speaker 3: then let's focus on being sober for eight hours, and

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Speaker 3: then let's focus on twenty four. Right, And it's these

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Speaker 3: baby steps, and then it's the same with mental illness. Right,

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Speaker 3: you start to stabilize them, you get them some counseling,

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Speaker 3: and they start to have hope. They have clarity because

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Speaker 3: their mind is clear of drugs or alcohol, but they

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Speaker 3: also start to have hope. And then as they have hope,

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Speaker 3: you can start to stare step them into more classes,

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Speaker 3: more services, the hands on employment training, you know, domestic

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Speaker 3: violence counseling if that was your issue, but you need

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Speaker 3: to you can't. We know what the north star is,

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Speaker 3: but we can't be focused with them on the north

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Speaker 3: star just yet. We need to really start in small

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Speaker 3: increments and as they build capacity and as they build stamina,

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Speaker 3: you know, on this pathway, then you start to introduce

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Speaker 3: more autonomy. Right more they can set, you know, to

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Speaker 3: some degree, their own rules, and they can start to

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Speaker 3: be more involved in what the goals are beyond Saint

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Speaker 3: John's so's it's a very individualized. We call it a

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Speaker 3: human first approach versus a housing first approach. But you

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Speaker 3: really have to start with what's your definition of success?

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Speaker 3: And that's why I'm so delighted by these executive orders

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Speaker 3: because the President is talking about a definition of success

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Speaker 3: that is recovery and treatment focused, and that's where we

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Speaker 3: need to be focused as a system.

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Speaker 1: You just told us whether it is mental health or

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Speaker 1: drug addiction. You are bringing these people into a situation

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Speaker 1: where it is an hour by our recovery, and yet

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Speaker 1: the solution on the mainstream is right now to just

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Speaker 1: put them in a house and walk away. As far

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Speaker 1: as I'm concerned, what you told me is that we

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Speaker 1: are putting millions of dollars into failure for sure.

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Speaker 3: Yep. One, you know that the notion that just the

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Speaker 3: notion that everyone who struggles with homelessness needs a house

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Speaker 3: that's subsidized for life. That's crazy. We could never build

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Speaker 3: our you know, when we started this in twenty thirteen,

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Speaker 3: we already were in an affordable housing crisis as a nation.

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Speaker 3: The housing that we're setting aside for the homeless is

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Speaker 3: a portion of that affordable housing. So our solution was

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Speaker 3: dead on arrival. There was never enough affordable housing back then.

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Speaker 3: There will never be enough if we you know, because

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Speaker 3: that housing is there for the individuals that are housed

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Speaker 3: for life. We will never build our way out of that.

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Speaker 3: And most of homeless population don't need that. What they

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Speaker 3: need is the support and the services that lead them

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Speaker 3: to recovery and restoration and to be able to afford

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Speaker 3: that housing on their own.

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Speaker 1: I think right now you're telling us we are in

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Speaker 1: a situation where not only do we need to change

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Speaker 1: the way we are managing homelessness in this country, but

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Speaker 1: we're going to have to have almost This is crazy,

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Speaker 1: but sounds like a pr campaign around it, because there

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Speaker 1: are so many people on either side of this issue

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Speaker 1: that don't have the knowledge that you have that really

437
00:25:30,040 --> 00:25:32,600
Speaker 1: there's a solution to get people back on track.

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00:25:33,440 --> 00:25:36,320
Speaker 3: Absolutely there is, and that's why I wrote the book.

439
00:25:36,400 --> 00:25:39,920
Speaker 3: It's you know, I in my book told the stories

440
00:25:39,960 --> 00:25:42,760
Speaker 3: of ten women who came to us at the depths

441
00:25:42,800 --> 00:25:45,639
Speaker 3: of despair. I mean, you would not believe some of

442
00:25:45,680 --> 00:25:47,919
Speaker 3: the challenges that they had in front of them. And

443
00:25:47,960 --> 00:25:52,239
Speaker 3: they are now thriving, and many are homeowners and you know,

444
00:25:52,359 --> 00:25:59,439
Speaker 3: married and healthy relationships, now working. There is a roadmap

445
00:25:59,520 --> 00:26:02,200
Speaker 3: to this. It's not going to happen overnight. But if

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00:26:02,240 --> 00:26:05,919
Speaker 3: I can leave your listeners with anything, it's it's to

447
00:26:06,000 --> 00:26:11,400
Speaker 3: have hope and these executive that the executive Order is

448
00:26:11,560 --> 00:26:15,280
Speaker 3: exactly what we needed to build a system that will

449
00:26:15,359 --> 00:26:19,359
Speaker 3: lead the homeless to hopeful, rest restored lives and our

450
00:26:19,400 --> 00:26:20,639
Speaker 3: communities to the same.

451
00:26:21,200 --> 00:26:23,159
Speaker 2: But the system still needs to be built. Is that

452
00:26:23,200 --> 00:26:25,080
Speaker 2: on a state level or a federal level.

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00:26:25,720 --> 00:26:28,280
Speaker 3: Well, federal funding is going to provide some of the

454
00:26:28,359 --> 00:26:31,919
Speaker 3: funding for this, and we're waiting to see, you know,

455
00:26:31,960 --> 00:26:34,520
Speaker 3: the executive order happened three weeks ago. We're waiting on

456
00:26:34,560 --> 00:26:38,520
Speaker 3: what's called the NOFA that hud will issue that what's

457
00:26:38,600 --> 00:26:41,960
Speaker 3: called the Notice of Funding Availability. We'll see what they

458
00:26:42,040 --> 00:26:46,439
Speaker 3: are funding, how they're funding it. But the federal government hasn't.

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00:26:46,640 --> 00:26:49,199
Speaker 3: They're the largest funder of homelessness, but they're not the

460
00:26:49,240 --> 00:26:53,439
Speaker 3: only ones, and they need states and communities to rally

461
00:26:53,520 --> 00:26:57,320
Speaker 3: around and support this new direction as well. But yes,

462
00:26:57,400 --> 00:27:01,080
Speaker 3: there's a lot of work ahead because the system, as

463
00:27:01,080 --> 00:27:05,320
Speaker 3: we discussed it was all about department keys and nothing

464
00:27:05,359 --> 00:27:07,879
Speaker 3: else and that's failed. Man.

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00:27:08,400 --> 00:27:11,159
Speaker 1: Let's take a quick commercial break. We'll continue next on

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00:27:11,200 --> 00:27:17,280
Speaker 1: the Tutor Dixon Podcast. So we were a little distracted

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00:27:17,359 --> 00:27:21,400
Speaker 1: in twenty twenty by some other things, and I mean

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00:27:21,600 --> 00:27:25,120
Speaker 1: rightfully so, but I also think that we've been Honestly,

469
00:27:25,160 --> 00:27:27,520
Speaker 1: I do think that distraction is a good word for this,

470
00:27:27,600 --> 00:27:30,479
Speaker 1: because I think we've been distracted from homelessness and this

471
00:27:30,560 --> 00:27:33,240
Speaker 1: problem for so long. I mean, just look at what

472
00:27:33,320 --> 00:27:36,000
Speaker 1: we are seeing from last week. There is a lot

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00:27:36,000 --> 00:27:39,159
Speaker 1: of political chaos in this country, and I think a

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00:27:39,160 --> 00:27:41,320
Speaker 1: lot of times we feel like we have to stand

475
00:27:41,359 --> 00:27:43,919
Speaker 1: on one side or another side of this issue. I

476
00:27:43,960 --> 00:27:46,600
Speaker 1: think you very clearly just stated there's not two different

477
00:27:46,680 --> 00:27:49,439
Speaker 1: sides of this issue. The side is compassionate care and

478
00:27:49,480 --> 00:27:51,880
Speaker 1: getting people back the lives they want, and I really

479
00:27:51,880 --> 00:27:54,480
Speaker 1: think that the majority of Americans are on that side.

480
00:27:54,680 --> 00:27:56,359
Speaker 1: Tell us a little bit about the book before I

481
00:27:56,440 --> 00:27:58,600
Speaker 1: let you go, so people can realize that this is

482
00:27:58,640 --> 00:28:03,040
Speaker 1: like the one answer. It's multiple different answers, but there

483
00:28:03,080 --> 00:28:04,960
Speaker 1: is a solution that can get people back to the

484
00:28:05,000 --> 00:28:07,000
Speaker 1: lives that they should be living in this country.

485
00:28:07,720 --> 00:28:11,840
Speaker 3: Yes, and again, I wanted to provide that hope, but

486
00:28:11,920 --> 00:28:14,880
Speaker 3: also provide the roadmap through sharing these stories. So there's

487
00:28:15,560 --> 00:28:18,320
Speaker 3: I think eleven women that I profiled, there's so many

488
00:28:18,440 --> 00:28:22,040
Speaker 3: hundreds of others. I just wrote a story about another woman, Michelle,

489
00:28:22,119 --> 00:28:26,000
Speaker 3: who you know, was there at the tail end of

490
00:28:26,040 --> 00:28:29,399
Speaker 3: my time at Saint John's and she's now remarried and

491
00:28:29,560 --> 00:28:32,720
Speaker 3: you know, had children and sober and just you know,

492
00:28:32,880 --> 00:28:36,320
Speaker 3: thriving in a such a significant way. So I continue

493
00:28:36,359 --> 00:28:40,880
Speaker 3: to write these stories. Recovery doesn't happen overnight. But I

494
00:28:41,000 --> 00:28:45,800
Speaker 3: really wanted to demonstrate the you know, hope that this

495
00:28:45,880 --> 00:28:49,000
Speaker 3: can be turned around and the roadmap for that. I

496
00:28:49,040 --> 00:28:55,959
Speaker 3: will say that the other role key here is accountability.

497
00:28:56,040 --> 00:28:59,840
Speaker 3: We talked about this a little bit earlier. People human

498
00:29:00,000 --> 00:29:05,000
Speaker 3: beings fundamentally need to be productive and they need community.

499
00:29:05,160 --> 00:29:09,680
Speaker 3: And one thing that's lacking from this current system are

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00:29:09,720 --> 00:29:12,720
Speaker 3: those two things. Right, there's no accountability. You can be

501
00:29:12,800 --> 00:29:16,840
Speaker 3: in housing for life, you never have to worry about

502
00:29:16,840 --> 00:29:20,880
Speaker 3: being kicked out, you can use drugs, you can not

503
00:29:21,040 --> 00:29:25,200
Speaker 3: address your illnesses, and that's okay in the current system,

504
00:29:25,240 --> 00:29:29,480
Speaker 3: and that's a fundamental flaw. The other flaw is isolation

505
00:29:29,760 --> 00:29:34,000
Speaker 3: in the addiction and mental health worlds. It's a no

506
00:29:34,000 --> 00:29:37,840
Speaker 3: no to isolate people that are struggling with those issues.

507
00:29:38,200 --> 00:29:41,960
Speaker 3: So we really need a system that is community, accountability

508
00:29:42,040 --> 00:29:46,240
Speaker 3: and restorative focused, which is what I'm very excited to

509
00:29:46,240 --> 00:29:47,479
Speaker 3: build as we go forward.

510
00:29:47,960 --> 00:29:49,760
Speaker 1: Well, that is something that I will just say I

511
00:29:49,760 --> 00:29:52,000
Speaker 1: think is hard to compete with right now, the idea

512
00:29:52,040 --> 00:29:54,720
Speaker 1: of free, because I think people think free is compassion,

513
00:29:54,760 --> 00:29:58,160
Speaker 1: but there's pride and ownership and you treat things differently

514
00:29:58,480 --> 00:30:02,400
Speaker 1: when you have actually earned the ability to partake in that,

515
00:30:02,520 --> 00:30:04,720
Speaker 1: whether it is a home, whether it is public transit,

516
00:30:04,960 --> 00:30:07,800
Speaker 1: and so we do have that competing idea right now

517
00:30:08,200 --> 00:30:10,000
Speaker 1: out there, and we've seen a lot of crime on

518
00:30:10,040 --> 00:30:13,160
Speaker 1: public transit. We've seen even crime on the streets because

519
00:30:13,280 --> 00:30:15,880
Speaker 1: there are people who are unhealthy, and that's something that

520
00:30:15,920 --> 00:30:18,600
Speaker 1: I think has gotten a lot of pushback to like, oh,

521
00:30:18,680 --> 00:30:20,640
Speaker 1: you can't just chalk it up to mental illness.

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00:30:20,680 --> 00:30:24,040
Speaker 2: Well, we have not figured out a way to care

523
00:30:24,080 --> 00:30:25,680
Speaker 2: for people who are on the streets.

524
00:30:25,720 --> 00:30:28,360
Speaker 1: I mean, what happened in Michigan at the walmart with

525
00:30:28,400 --> 00:30:31,840
Speaker 1: the stabbing, that was a situation of someone who should

526
00:30:31,920 --> 00:30:35,520
Speaker 1: have been in care, similar to what happened in North Carolina.

527
00:30:35,520 --> 00:30:37,320
Speaker 1: And people are like, you can't say that about the

528
00:30:37,360 --> 00:30:40,560
Speaker 1: North Carolina situation. That person should have been in jail. Well,

529
00:30:40,600 --> 00:30:42,840
Speaker 1: I mean maybe that still should have been a treatment

530
00:30:43,000 --> 00:30:46,960
Speaker 1: system for this person. Because I don't know about you,

531
00:30:47,080 --> 00:30:49,400
Speaker 1: but that's just not a natural thing to go out

532
00:30:49,440 --> 00:30:52,840
Speaker 1: and murder someone. There's something else going on, and we

533
00:30:52,920 --> 00:30:55,200
Speaker 1: as a country have to figure out what the solutions are.

534
00:30:55,280 --> 00:30:57,640
Speaker 1: So I appreciate tell us you the name of the

535
00:30:57,680 --> 00:30:59,360
Speaker 1: book one more time and where you can get it.

536
00:30:59,440 --> 00:31:02,800
Speaker 3: Sure behind the Red Door Battling the Homeless Epidemic, it's

537
00:31:02,840 --> 00:31:06,280
Speaker 3: available on Amazon, and I also do a lot of

538
00:31:06,280 --> 00:31:10,160
Speaker 3: writing on this topic and that can be access to

539
00:31:10,240 --> 00:31:12,719
Speaker 3: all of those pieces at Michelle Steve dot com.

540
00:31:13,120 --> 00:31:15,920
Speaker 1: And I think that's important because people who are listening.

541
00:31:15,960 --> 00:31:18,160
Speaker 1: I know so many people who listen to this podcast

542
00:31:18,160 --> 00:31:21,680
Speaker 1: are interested in public office, They're interested in all these topics,

543
00:31:21,680 --> 00:31:23,040
Speaker 1: and a lot of times and when we go out

544
00:31:23,080 --> 00:31:25,760
Speaker 1: and we campaign, we don't really know how to talk

545
00:31:25,800 --> 00:31:28,160
Speaker 1: about this. So having someone who's been on the front

546
00:31:28,200 --> 00:31:30,400
Speaker 1: lines that you can learn and you can read and

547
00:31:30,480 --> 00:31:33,600
Speaker 1: always I always encourage people to continue to learn about

548
00:31:33,600 --> 00:31:35,240
Speaker 1: these things, to go out there and read this and

549
00:31:35,280 --> 00:31:38,120
Speaker 1: then you can talk intelligently about it as well. We

550
00:31:38,160 --> 00:31:40,720
Speaker 1: appreciate you so much, Michelle Steve, thank you so much

551
00:31:40,760 --> 00:31:41,840
Speaker 1: for coming on the podcast.

552
00:31:41,960 --> 00:31:44,520
Speaker 3: Thank you so much for having me and caring enough

553
00:31:44,560 --> 00:31:46,800
Speaker 3: to have this discussion on this topic.

554
00:31:47,360 --> 00:31:50,520
Speaker 1: Absolutely absolutely, and thank you all for joining the Tutor

555
00:31:50,560 --> 00:31:52,880
Speaker 1: Dixon podcast. Remember you can get it wherever you get

556
00:31:52,880 --> 00:31:55,880
Speaker 1: your podcasts. You can also watch it on Rumble or

557
00:31:55,920 --> 00:31:58,600
Speaker 1: YouTube at tutor Dixon and make sure you join us

558
00:31:58,640 --> 00:31:59,080
Speaker 1: next time.

559
00:31:59,280 --> 00:31:59,840
Speaker 2: Have a blessed