1 00:00:04,240 --> 00:00:07,440 Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome to the short Stuff. I'm Josh, there's Chuck, 2 00:00:07,760 --> 00:00:11,080 Speaker 1: there's Josh, and this is short stuff. Like I said, 3 00:00:12,360 --> 00:00:16,880 Speaker 1: your nickname is Josh, which is short for Joshua, and 4 00:00:16,920 --> 00:00:21,360 Speaker 1: that makes sense. It does almost boringly. So your nickname 5 00:00:21,440 --> 00:00:25,840 Speaker 1: is Chuck, which is short for Chuck. Now it's short 6 00:00:25,880 --> 00:00:28,560 Speaker 1: for Charles. Yeah. That's what kind of got me onto this. 7 00:00:28,680 --> 00:00:31,600 Speaker 1: I realized I sort of never knew how Chuck came 8 00:00:31,640 --> 00:00:34,440 Speaker 1: from Charles. And there are a lot of examples of 9 00:00:34,560 --> 00:00:37,880 Speaker 1: names that, uh, we're going to go through right now 10 00:00:38,040 --> 00:00:41,560 Speaker 1: that don't quite make sense, and there are some interesting 11 00:00:41,680 --> 00:00:44,480 Speaker 1: and murky stories behind a lot of these. Well let's 12 00:00:44,520 --> 00:00:47,120 Speaker 1: start with yours. Look, Chuck, I always thought Chuck was 13 00:00:47,200 --> 00:00:52,200 Speaker 1: short for Chuck Chuck bo Buck, but it's not. It's 14 00:00:52,280 --> 00:00:56,080 Speaker 1: it's short for Charles. But it doesn't really make sense. 15 00:00:56,080 --> 00:00:58,800 Speaker 1: I mean, there is the ch that that you know, 16 00:00:58,920 --> 00:01:00,920 Speaker 1: you're like, well, okay, there's so see it in that way. 17 00:01:01,000 --> 00:01:03,440 Speaker 1: That's about it, though, But it turns out that the 18 00:01:03,520 --> 00:01:06,920 Speaker 1: story behind how Chuck got associated with Charles is one 19 00:01:06,920 --> 00:01:10,399 Speaker 1: of the most fascinating, convoluted stories that anyone's ever come 20 00:01:10,480 --> 00:01:17,000 Speaker 1: up with, And unlike most nicknames for English language names. Um. 21 00:01:17,040 --> 00:01:19,440 Speaker 1: It does not come from England or even from the 22 00:01:19,480 --> 00:01:23,560 Speaker 1: UK or Europe. Comes from America, specifically the Lower East 23 00:01:23,600 --> 00:01:26,720 Speaker 1: Side of New York, in Chinatown, where there was a 24 00:01:26,760 --> 00:01:33,080 Speaker 1: guy named Um George Washington O'Connor who came to be 25 00:01:33,240 --> 00:01:39,399 Speaker 1: known as the first Chuck, Chuck O'Connor, org just Chuck Connors, Yeah, 26 00:01:39,440 --> 00:01:42,680 Speaker 1: and not the Chuck Connors, the actor of the Yeah, 27 00:01:42,720 --> 00:01:45,679 Speaker 1: that's a little confusing, but this is a gangster. He 28 00:01:45,720 --> 00:01:48,040 Speaker 1: grew up in Chinatown, and this is how the story goes. 29 00:01:48,080 --> 00:01:51,840 Speaker 1: You know, we weren't there. Um hung out in Chinatown 30 00:01:52,000 --> 00:01:54,280 Speaker 1: a lot by growing up there obviously, and became known 31 00:01:54,280 --> 00:01:58,520 Speaker 1: as a mayor of Chinatown. And he says that he 32 00:01:58,600 --> 00:02:01,560 Speaker 1: got the name Chuck because he loved Chuck Steak, and 33 00:02:01,640 --> 00:02:04,720 Speaker 1: everyone else said that's not true. Man. Yeah, I mean 34 00:02:05,080 --> 00:02:07,000 Speaker 1: I don't know. He's the guy he should know, but 35 00:02:08,200 --> 00:02:10,920 Speaker 1: other people appointed to the eighteen fifty census in the 36 00:02:11,000 --> 00:02:13,720 Speaker 1: US where if you look at those names and you 37 00:02:13,760 --> 00:02:17,280 Speaker 1: pick out the Chucks or the variations of Chuck, they 38 00:02:17,280 --> 00:02:22,160 Speaker 1: were Chinese. He's in Chinatown, variations of Chuck in Chinatown. 39 00:02:22,880 --> 00:02:27,079 Speaker 1: And so basically when he dies, they misprint his name 40 00:02:27,160 --> 00:02:30,200 Speaker 1: as Charles. He never wants Charles. No, it was George. 41 00:02:30,560 --> 00:02:32,880 Speaker 1: So it was just basically a big mistake. I'm a 42 00:02:32,919 --> 00:02:39,120 Speaker 1: big mistake. Well, your nickname is, that's all. Yeah, not 43 00:02:39,200 --> 00:02:42,760 Speaker 1: a bad one. Not about another. How about um hank 44 00:02:43,000 --> 00:02:46,600 Speaker 1: Hank is short for Harry or Henry. Right. Weird, but 45 00:02:46,680 --> 00:02:50,799 Speaker 1: this one makes more sense. It does. It's actually pretty straightforward. 46 00:02:51,160 --> 00:02:55,239 Speaker 1: Um Hank h gyng k is actually the Dutch name 47 00:02:55,280 --> 00:02:59,960 Speaker 1: for Henry, right. And so back in the century again 48 00:03:00,000 --> 00:03:02,640 Speaker 1: around New York with all the Dutch settlers, they would 49 00:03:02,639 --> 00:03:06,280 Speaker 1: have called somebody whose name was Henry Hank h g 50 00:03:06,480 --> 00:03:11,200 Speaker 1: n k, which eventually became Hank. Pretty boring until you 51 00:03:11,320 --> 00:03:14,960 Speaker 1: realize that the original nickname for Henry wasn't Hank, but 52 00:03:15,040 --> 00:03:18,560 Speaker 1: among English speakers it was Harry, so much so that 53 00:03:18,639 --> 00:03:21,760 Speaker 1: Prince Harry, his real name, is actually Prince Henry, which 54 00:03:21,760 --> 00:03:27,840 Speaker 1: I had no idea until today yesterday, same here. Uh. 55 00:03:27,880 --> 00:03:31,639 Speaker 1: This one is super interesting because I've often pondered how 56 00:03:31,680 --> 00:03:36,280 Speaker 1: does a Richard become a dick? And this one is. 57 00:03:37,000 --> 00:03:38,920 Speaker 1: This one kind of goes back to medieval times when 58 00:03:39,600 --> 00:03:43,360 Speaker 1: basically there were kind of like four names. You were John, William, 59 00:03:43,640 --> 00:03:46,960 Speaker 1: Robert or Richard um and then there was always like 60 00:03:47,160 --> 00:03:50,760 Speaker 1: you know, says over in the corner, but it was 61 00:03:50,800 --> 00:03:55,480 Speaker 1: basically those four names more or less, and so it 62 00:03:55,560 --> 00:03:59,120 Speaker 1: got really confusing, and so nicknames became really popular, so 63 00:03:59,160 --> 00:04:02,560 Speaker 1: you could sort out your Richard's and your Robert's and 64 00:04:02,560 --> 00:04:05,480 Speaker 1: your John's and your Williams. Yeah, because not only did 65 00:04:05,560 --> 00:04:07,480 Speaker 1: they all have the same first name, people didn't have 66 00:04:07,600 --> 00:04:10,560 Speaker 1: last names by that time. Yet. It's just so confusing 67 00:04:10,640 --> 00:04:13,280 Speaker 1: back then, it really was. So people started coming up 68 00:04:13,320 --> 00:04:17,680 Speaker 1: with rhyming names where the first letter would be different, right. 69 00:04:17,720 --> 00:04:19,080 Speaker 1: You had to make sure you were killing the right 70 00:04:19,120 --> 00:04:23,560 Speaker 1: guy right, exactly right. So Richard has always had the 71 00:04:23,560 --> 00:04:26,839 Speaker 1: shortened form of rick basically, but because you might know 72 00:04:27,120 --> 00:04:30,520 Speaker 1: seven ricks, you might also call one of them hick 73 00:04:31,120 --> 00:04:35,920 Speaker 1: or dick. Because rhyming names and switching letters with an 74 00:04:36,080 --> 00:04:38,800 Speaker 1: H or a D was very very popular back when 75 00:04:38,880 --> 00:04:42,039 Speaker 1: people had absolutely nothing to do but farm and then die, 76 00:04:42,800 --> 00:04:44,800 Speaker 1: so they would come up with with stuff like this. 77 00:04:45,279 --> 00:04:50,320 Speaker 1: So the original nickname for Richard was hick Um at first, 78 00:04:50,400 --> 00:04:53,880 Speaker 1: from what I understand. Yeah, the same for Robert. Robert 79 00:04:53,880 --> 00:04:57,240 Speaker 1: wasn't Bob at first, it was Dobb or hobb, and 80 00:04:57,279 --> 00:05:01,280 Speaker 1: then Bob came along much later. For the same reason. Yeah, 81 00:05:01,320 --> 00:05:03,479 Speaker 1: and actually you can see this. There are people walking 82 00:05:03,480 --> 00:05:07,720 Speaker 1: around with the last names of Hobson or Dobson. That 83 00:05:07,760 --> 00:05:10,760 Speaker 1: would be the son of a Bob or Robert who 84 00:05:10,800 --> 00:05:14,160 Speaker 1: is nicknamed Hobbard dobb by the people again who had 85 00:05:14,200 --> 00:05:16,479 Speaker 1: nothing to do with their time. All right, this is 86 00:05:16,480 --> 00:05:18,719 Speaker 1: getting really confusing, So we're going to take a quick 87 00:05:18,760 --> 00:05:22,719 Speaker 1: break and come back and talk about Williams and Margaret's 88 00:05:22,760 --> 00:05:50,400 Speaker 1: and Sarah's and Ann's and John's right for this, Okay, Chuck, 89 00:05:50,640 --> 00:05:55,159 Speaker 1: William to Bill seems pretty straightforward. Will Bill at rhymes, 90 00:05:55,480 --> 00:05:58,760 Speaker 1: but apparently that's not the story behind it. If you 91 00:05:58,880 --> 00:06:02,040 Speaker 1: go into the Irish Gaelic dialect, which is probably a 92 00:06:02,080 --> 00:06:05,320 Speaker 1: form of Celtic, if you'll remember from the Druid episode, 93 00:06:06,120 --> 00:06:08,760 Speaker 1: if you um look at the letter W, you would 94 00:06:08,760 --> 00:06:12,279 Speaker 1: typically want to say W, but now it actually makes 95 00:06:12,320 --> 00:06:16,360 Speaker 1: a buzz sound. And so when William the Conqueror headed 96 00:06:16,400 --> 00:06:19,680 Speaker 1: into Ireland in the late seventeenth century UM, he was 97 00:06:19,720 --> 00:06:23,520 Speaker 1: not very well liked, and so the local people who 98 00:06:23,560 --> 00:06:28,600 Speaker 1: spoke Irish Gaelic saw that William and called him Billy 99 00:06:28,680 --> 00:06:33,080 Speaker 1: instead of Willie. They called him Billy King. Billy was 100 00:06:33,120 --> 00:06:36,960 Speaker 1: the first Bill and that's how Bill became the nickname 101 00:06:37,000 --> 00:06:41,520 Speaker 1: for William. But how does the Bill become a law uh? 102 00:06:41,640 --> 00:06:45,440 Speaker 1: On Capitol Hill? It just hangs around. Uh, ladies, we 103 00:06:45,440 --> 00:06:48,640 Speaker 1: haven't forgotten about you. Uh. Mark Peggy is a nickname 104 00:06:48,960 --> 00:06:52,760 Speaker 1: for Margaret. Which this is where things get really interesting 105 00:06:53,080 --> 00:06:56,360 Speaker 1: with the rhymes. Yeah, if you weren't interested before, prepared 106 00:06:56,400 --> 00:06:59,919 Speaker 1: to be finally in this episode, because apparently in the 107 00:07:00,000 --> 00:07:03,520 Speaker 1: fifteen hundreds, in the sixteenth century, there was another fad 108 00:07:03,520 --> 00:07:09,400 Speaker 1: for rhyming M names with P names. So the this 109 00:07:09,480 --> 00:07:14,960 Speaker 1: is how it goes timeline wise. Margaret becomes Marge, that 110 00:07:15,080 --> 00:07:19,640 Speaker 1: becomes mag or mag I guess um, that becomes meg 111 00:07:21,040 --> 00:07:25,600 Speaker 1: Eventually that becomes Meggie perhaps, and then that becomes Meggy yep, 112 00:07:26,320 --> 00:07:29,440 Speaker 1: Maggie Peggy. And they say that that's the lineage or 113 00:07:29,480 --> 00:07:31,680 Speaker 1: not the lineage. But you know what's the word I'm 114 00:07:31,680 --> 00:07:35,960 Speaker 1: looking for? The uh, well, the lineage. I think that works. 115 00:07:36,600 --> 00:07:40,000 Speaker 1: The etymology, the evolution, Yeah, the evolution. There you go 116 00:07:40,760 --> 00:07:43,920 Speaker 1: that thing. Here's another one from Margaret. So did you 117 00:07:43,960 --> 00:07:46,480 Speaker 1: know that Daisy is a nickname for Margaret? I had 118 00:07:46,520 --> 00:07:49,800 Speaker 1: never heard that. I hadn't either, which makes zero sense 119 00:07:49,920 --> 00:07:53,360 Speaker 1: until you start speaking French and you find out that 120 00:07:53,520 --> 00:07:58,080 Speaker 1: um marguerite is the word for the flower daisy. And 121 00:07:58,160 --> 00:08:01,520 Speaker 1: so some English speakers, who we're pretty full of themselves, said, 122 00:08:01,760 --> 00:08:05,800 Speaker 1: we're gonna start calling Margaret's daisies. Okay, I buy that, 123 00:08:06,360 --> 00:08:12,760 Speaker 1: I love it. Martha would turn into math or moth um. 124 00:08:12,800 --> 00:08:16,880 Speaker 1: Eventually that would become Maddie, and then Patty and then Patsy. 125 00:08:17,000 --> 00:08:21,080 Speaker 1: So Patsy is apparently still a nickname for Martha. Did 126 00:08:21,120 --> 00:08:23,040 Speaker 1: not know that one. I did not know that either. 127 00:08:23,640 --> 00:08:27,360 Speaker 1: So my favorite of all is and to Nancy. Yeah, 128 00:08:27,360 --> 00:08:30,440 Speaker 1: I like this one too. Actually, so instead of like 129 00:08:30,680 --> 00:08:34,640 Speaker 1: calling saying something was my m y, people would say mine, 130 00:08:35,480 --> 00:08:38,560 Speaker 1: and they would speak affectionately of people or I guess 131 00:08:38,559 --> 00:08:43,840 Speaker 1: possessively of people by saying like mine an right, And 132 00:08:43,880 --> 00:08:46,400 Speaker 1: then because people don't like to expend a lot of energy, 133 00:08:46,520 --> 00:08:50,839 Speaker 1: that got shortened to Nan my Nan Nan Right. Then 134 00:08:50,960 --> 00:08:55,080 Speaker 1: Nan got kind of changed and dalled up to Nanny 135 00:08:55,160 --> 00:08:59,840 Speaker 1: and then Nancy and then finally Nancy. So Nancy is 136 00:09:00,200 --> 00:09:03,800 Speaker 1: a nickname for Ann. And the same thing also applies 137 00:09:03,840 --> 00:09:09,240 Speaker 1: to like ned nelly um any any English name that 138 00:09:09,320 --> 00:09:14,560 Speaker 1: begins with a vowel um could be changed from mine 139 00:09:14,920 --> 00:09:20,440 Speaker 1: ed to ned pretty easily. There's one apparently ascribed to 140 00:09:21,040 --> 00:09:25,760 Speaker 1: baby talk or attributed to I guess I should say 141 00:09:26,160 --> 00:09:32,000 Speaker 1: Sarah um. Apparently some kids have problems pronouncing the little 142 00:09:32,320 --> 00:09:35,839 Speaker 1: the letter R, it will sound like an L. So 143 00:09:35,880 --> 00:09:40,880 Speaker 1: Sarah somehow makes the leap to Sally because of kids. 144 00:09:41,880 --> 00:09:44,760 Speaker 1: I guess have you Have you ever heard Sally is 145 00:09:44,800 --> 00:09:48,040 Speaker 1: a nickname for Sarah? No? I always thought Sally was 146 00:09:48,120 --> 00:09:50,679 Speaker 1: just that was just the name you were born with, 147 00:09:51,920 --> 00:09:58,000 Speaker 1: or maybe it was short for salsa. You know, my 148 00:09:58,080 --> 00:10:01,040 Speaker 1: daughter started making up nicknames for ghost friends, which I 149 00:10:01,040 --> 00:10:04,440 Speaker 1: guess her imaginary friends. Uh. And it's funny to see 150 00:10:04,440 --> 00:10:07,120 Speaker 1: her just come up with these names because one of 151 00:10:07,120 --> 00:10:10,560 Speaker 1: them is salsa. Oh really, that's awesome. Yeah, there's uh 152 00:10:10,640 --> 00:10:17,200 Speaker 1: o C, salsa, fossil um andy, see saw and see you. 153 00:10:17,840 --> 00:10:20,839 Speaker 1: She loves the sibilants. Huh yeah. I mean it's it's 154 00:10:20,880 --> 00:10:24,200 Speaker 1: all sort of you know, it's it's uh, she's working 155 00:10:24,240 --> 00:10:27,160 Speaker 1: it out. You're like, it's all in good fun. It is. 156 00:10:27,200 --> 00:10:30,199 Speaker 1: But now, like I reference salsa or fossil or o 157 00:10:30,400 --> 00:10:33,120 Speaker 1: C and she's like, yeah, they're right over there, And 158 00:10:33,160 --> 00:10:36,000 Speaker 1: then I laugh. But part of me goes is my 159 00:10:36,080 --> 00:10:39,719 Speaker 1: house haunted? Right as long as they're not telling her 160 00:10:39,760 --> 00:10:43,520 Speaker 1: to burn things. I think you're okay. My my oldest 161 00:10:43,559 --> 00:10:46,400 Speaker 1: sister had imaginary friends and they were named Bobby Teak 162 00:10:46,440 --> 00:10:51,600 Speaker 1: and Peak. Bobby Teak and Peak. Was it Bobby Teaka 163 00:10:51,640 --> 00:10:54,320 Speaker 1: is one name or there were three people? There were 164 00:10:54,360 --> 00:10:57,840 Speaker 1: three people, so there must be something to that alliteration, 165 00:10:58,160 --> 00:10:59,880 Speaker 1: and I think, so, all right, let's finish up with 166 00:11:00,040 --> 00:11:03,080 Speaker 1: John and Jack being a nickname for John, because I 167 00:11:03,080 --> 00:11:06,800 Speaker 1: always when I first heard that, I think it was 168 00:11:07,520 --> 00:11:11,160 Speaker 1: in the presidential debates when uh, who was it that 169 00:11:11,200 --> 00:11:15,439 Speaker 1: said you're no Jack Kennedy Lloyd Benson. Yeah, I remember 170 00:11:15,480 --> 00:11:19,000 Speaker 1: hearing that and being like, who the heck is Jack Kennedy? 171 00:11:20,600 --> 00:11:23,600 Speaker 1: I think he met John and uh, then I found 172 00:11:23,600 --> 00:11:25,319 Speaker 1: out it was a nickname, and I never I never 173 00:11:25,400 --> 00:11:28,960 Speaker 1: quite got that until yesterday. Yeah, which is weird because 174 00:11:29,280 --> 00:11:32,920 Speaker 1: nicknames are usually shortened names. This is just two four 175 00:11:33,000 --> 00:11:36,559 Speaker 1: letter names and John and Jack. But yeah, Jack is 176 00:11:36,600 --> 00:11:39,960 Speaker 1: a is a nickname for John and they There's a 177 00:11:40,000 --> 00:11:42,320 Speaker 1: couple of theories. One is an easy one that it 178 00:11:42,320 --> 00:11:45,280 Speaker 1: goes back to the Norman invasion where the French would 179 00:11:45,280 --> 00:11:48,600 Speaker 1: have brought the name Jacques over and that's that People 180 00:11:48,640 --> 00:11:52,120 Speaker 1: were like, oh, Jacques Jack, you know, makes sense. The 181 00:11:52,160 --> 00:11:56,440 Speaker 1: problem is is that Jacques is the French name for James, 182 00:11:56,520 --> 00:11:58,760 Speaker 1: not John, so there's a little bit of a hole 183 00:11:58,800 --> 00:12:02,720 Speaker 1: in that one. The other is again in medieval England, um, 184 00:12:02,800 --> 00:12:05,680 Speaker 1: sometimes you would add ki n Ken as a suffix. 185 00:12:06,240 --> 00:12:10,280 Speaker 1: So William was Wilkin, Peter was Perkin, which is how 186 00:12:10,280 --> 00:12:15,600 Speaker 1: you get things like again wilkins son or perkins um. 187 00:12:15,640 --> 00:12:20,320 Speaker 1: And apparently John became Jenkin, and Jenkin was shortened to Jink, 188 00:12:20,440 --> 00:12:23,520 Speaker 1: which became Jack. I think really this just demonstrates no 189 00:12:23,559 --> 00:12:26,600 Speaker 1: one knows where Jack came from. I think. So. So 190 00:12:26,880 --> 00:12:29,240 Speaker 1: there you go. Hopefully your name was in there. If 191 00:12:29,240 --> 00:12:32,440 Speaker 1: it wasn't, you can make up your own nickname. It's cool. Um, 192 00:12:32,480 --> 00:12:35,040 Speaker 1: go ahead and let us know what it is. Find 193 00:12:35,120 --> 00:12:38,200 Speaker 1: us somewhere on social or via email who knows. But 194 00:12:38,280 --> 00:12:41,199 Speaker 1: we leave it up to you to determine which route 195 00:12:41,200 --> 00:12:43,880 Speaker 1: to take. In the meantime, we're out of here with 196 00:12:43,880 --> 00:12:49,040 Speaker 1: our short stuff. Stuff you should know is production of 197 00:12:49,040 --> 00:12:52,000 Speaker 1: iHeart Radio's How Stuff Works. For more podcasts for my 198 00:12:52,040 --> 00:12:55,040 Speaker 1: heart Radio, visit the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or 199 00:12:55,040 --> 00:12:56,720 Speaker 1: wherever you listen to your favorite shows.