1
00:00:04,240 --> 00:00:06,960
Speaker 1: As I drew in my head and was turning around

2
00:00:07,000 --> 00:00:09,640
Speaker 1: on the chimney, Saint Nicholas came with a bound. He

3
00:00:09,760 --> 00:00:12,039
Speaker 1: was dressed all in fur from his head to his foot,

4
00:00:12,039 --> 00:00:14,440
Speaker 1: and his clothes were all tarnished with ashes and soot.

5
00:00:14,480 --> 00:00:16,400
Speaker 1: He was dressed all in fur from his head to

6
00:00:16,480 --> 00:00:19,000
Speaker 1: his foot, and his clothes were all tarnished with ashes

7
00:00:19,040 --> 00:00:21,040
Speaker 1: and soot. He was dressed all in fur from his

8
00:00:21,120 --> 00:00:23,720
Speaker 1: head to his foot, and his clothes were all tarnished

9
00:00:23,760 --> 00:00:25,160
Speaker 1: with ashes and soot.

10
00:00:29,560 --> 00:00:33,640
Speaker 2: Welcome to Stuff to Blow Your Mind, production of iHeartRadio.

11
00:00:39,680 --> 00:00:41,600
Speaker 1: Hey, welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind.

12
00:00:41,720 --> 00:00:44,760
Speaker 3: My name is Robert Lamb and I am Joe McCormick.

13
00:00:44,800 --> 00:00:47,360
Speaker 3: And today we're going to be kicking off a series

14
00:00:47,400 --> 00:00:51,880
Speaker 3: of episodes on the fireplace and the hearth, the infrastructure

15
00:00:52,440 --> 00:00:56,880
Speaker 3: through which humans brought their campfires indoors, inside their homes

16
00:00:56,880 --> 00:01:00,000
Speaker 3: and other dwelling structures. We're gonna look at how fire

17
00:01:00,080 --> 00:01:03,080
Speaker 3: places work, where they come from, and what they mean.

18
00:01:03,720 --> 00:01:06,640
Speaker 3: And just got to apologize again this week like I

19
00:01:06,680 --> 00:01:08,920
Speaker 3: did last week. I've still got a cold. It's either

20
00:01:09,040 --> 00:01:11,160
Speaker 3: round two of this cold or a whole new cold

21
00:01:11,200 --> 00:01:14,400
Speaker 3: has come into my life. So so apologies for the

22
00:01:14,720 --> 00:01:17,640
Speaker 3: sinus noises today, but I'm doing what I can.

23
00:01:17,920 --> 00:01:22,400
Speaker 1: Twelve days of Christmas over there, Yeah they're gathering around

24
00:01:22,440 --> 00:01:25,039
Speaker 1: the fire, but anyway, Yeah, so I wanted to do

25
00:01:25,160 --> 00:01:29,000
Speaker 1: a series of episodes looking into fireplaces.

26
00:01:29,080 --> 00:01:33,760
Speaker 3: And sometimes when you're trying to understand what an experience

27
00:01:33,920 --> 00:01:37,080
Speaker 3: means to people, you can really get some good insights

28
00:01:37,120 --> 00:01:41,840
Speaker 3: by looking at attempts to simulate that experience in its

29
00:01:41,959 --> 00:01:46,720
Speaker 3: literal absence, like which elements do people consider worth copying,

30
00:01:47,000 --> 00:01:51,160
Speaker 3: which elements can be ignored, which elements are accentuated or

31
00:01:51,240 --> 00:01:56,120
Speaker 3: exaggerated in simulation. And this got me thinking about the

32
00:01:56,400 --> 00:02:01,160
Speaker 3: Netflix mega hit Fireplace for Your Home, which, for those

33
00:02:01,200 --> 00:02:05,240
Speaker 3: of you somehow not familiar, is an hour long, unbroken

34
00:02:05,280 --> 00:02:09,400
Speaker 3: shot of logs burning in a fireplace, and it is

35
00:02:09,520 --> 00:02:12,040
Speaker 3: the hottest movie of the year for I don't know,

36
00:02:12,120 --> 00:02:14,760
Speaker 3: seven or eight years running whenever this thing started playing

37
00:02:14,800 --> 00:02:18,920
Speaker 3: on Netflix. I just checked on Netflix and there are

38
00:02:19,120 --> 00:02:22,640
Speaker 3: three episodes. This is not a sponsored episode, by the way.

39
00:02:24,000 --> 00:02:26,160
Speaker 3: Netflix had nothing to do with this. I just think

40
00:02:26,160 --> 00:02:28,839
Speaker 3: this is an interesting subject on its own, and we'll

41
00:02:28,880 --> 00:02:31,160
Speaker 3: explain more as we go on. But I checked on

42
00:02:31,200 --> 00:02:35,360
Speaker 3: Netflix and there were three episodes of season one of

43
00:02:35,440 --> 00:02:40,040
Speaker 3: fireplace for your home. There's crackling yule log fireplace. That

44
00:02:40,080 --> 00:02:42,280
Speaker 3: one's the one that plays music like Joy to the

45
00:02:42,280 --> 00:02:44,480
Speaker 3: World and we wish you a Merry Christmas kind of

46
00:02:44,560 --> 00:02:48,560
Speaker 3: Muzaki versions of them. Yeah, And then there's the second

47
00:02:48,560 --> 00:02:51,640
Speaker 3: one that's just crackling fireplace, so no music. You just

48
00:02:51,720 --> 00:02:53,920
Speaker 3: get the pop, the hiss and all that good stuff.

49
00:02:54,120 --> 00:02:54,600
Speaker 1: There you go.

50
00:02:54,960 --> 00:02:57,720
Speaker 3: And then there's a third one with music, again I

51
00:02:57,720 --> 00:02:59,919
Speaker 3: guess in different music than the first one. I don't.

52
00:03:00,200 --> 00:03:02,440
Speaker 3: I think we mainly just listen. The one we put

53
00:03:02,480 --> 00:03:03,680
Speaker 3: on is the one without music.

54
00:03:03,919 --> 00:03:05,520
Speaker 1: That's the way to go. You can add your own

55
00:03:05,560 --> 00:03:06,280
Speaker 1: music that way.

56
00:03:07,120 --> 00:03:09,360
Speaker 3: So I don't remember what year it was we first

57
00:03:09,400 --> 00:03:12,320
Speaker 3: discovered this thing, but it has played a number of

58
00:03:12,320 --> 00:03:14,680
Speaker 3: times in our household, and so I was wondering, Rob,

59
00:03:14,720 --> 00:03:16,440
Speaker 3: do you do you have experience with this thing?

60
00:03:17,160 --> 00:03:20,280
Speaker 1: Yes, I do. You know, I've never owned or rented

61
00:03:20,320 --> 00:03:22,880
Speaker 1: a home that had a hearth or a fireplace in it,

62
00:03:23,440 --> 00:03:25,799
Speaker 1: not even like some of the scaleback versions where it's

63
00:03:25,800 --> 00:03:28,919
Speaker 1: like gas generated and you know, or has some sort

64
00:03:28,919 --> 00:03:32,240
Speaker 1: of other effect. So I have to depend on what

65
00:03:32,320 --> 00:03:33,800
Speaker 1: a lot of people have to depend on for the

66
00:03:33,840 --> 00:03:37,240
Speaker 1: spiritual center of their home and that's the television, and

67
00:03:37,320 --> 00:03:40,160
Speaker 1: so of course I fire up a fake fireplace, and

68
00:03:40,440 --> 00:03:43,960
Speaker 1: the one that's been our favorite for several years running

69
00:03:44,000 --> 00:03:46,880
Speaker 1: now is on Netflix. So again, credit, where's credit? Where

70
00:03:46,880 --> 00:03:49,680
Speaker 1: credits do? They'll cancel your favorite shows after two seasons,

71
00:03:49,720 --> 00:03:53,480
Speaker 1: but they will give you an amazing virtual fireplace, and

72
00:03:53,680 --> 00:03:57,760
Speaker 1: our favorite is Netflix The Witcher Fireplace. It is a

73
00:03:57,800 --> 00:04:01,560
Speaker 1: Witcher tie in and it's not much to it. It's simple,

74
00:04:01,560 --> 00:04:04,320
Speaker 1: it's awesome. It's just kind of a medieval fantasy world

75
00:04:04,400 --> 00:04:08,320
Speaker 1: fire pit, like you know, wrought iron or something. It's blazing,

76
00:04:08,440 --> 00:04:12,240
Speaker 1: it's crackling. There's no Henry cavill or Unifer back there

77
00:04:12,320 --> 00:04:14,080
Speaker 1: and a hot tub or anything like that. It's just

78
00:04:14,160 --> 00:04:18,080
Speaker 1: the fire pit and it's great. My only criticism is

79
00:04:18,120 --> 00:04:20,960
Speaker 1: that it's only an hour long, and I either can't

80
00:04:21,080 --> 00:04:22,960
Speaker 1: or I don't know how to put it on repeat,

81
00:04:23,000 --> 00:04:25,040
Speaker 1: because I would just prefer to have it on all

82
00:04:25,080 --> 00:04:26,320
Speaker 1: the time during the holidays.

83
00:04:26,880 --> 00:04:29,159
Speaker 3: What's this emblazoned on the side of it? Is it

84
00:04:29,200 --> 00:04:30,599
Speaker 3: like a kraken or something?

85
00:04:31,279 --> 00:04:34,919
Speaker 1: Ah, since I've seen this show, that's probably like some

86
00:04:34,960 --> 00:04:37,479
Speaker 1: sort of a monster. You know, Henry Cavell is a

87
00:04:37,480 --> 00:04:39,640
Speaker 1: monster hunter. And that the Witch is a monster hunter

88
00:04:39,680 --> 00:04:41,680
Speaker 1: and that's I don't know, a chimera or something.

89
00:04:41,960 --> 00:04:44,240
Speaker 3: Oh, I know the Witcher from the game, the third

90
00:04:44,279 --> 00:04:47,520
Speaker 3: game specifically. But yeah, so this thing does look really cool.

91
00:04:47,640 --> 00:04:49,279
Speaker 3: I'll have to look this one up this year. But

92
00:04:49,320 --> 00:04:52,800
Speaker 3: it's like sexy wrought iron brazier for your home.

93
00:04:53,279 --> 00:04:56,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, it's cool. Yeah, I legitimately love it.

94
00:04:56,880 --> 00:04:59,880
Speaker 3: So I think Fireplace for Your Home and it's many

95
00:05:00,040 --> 00:05:06,960
Speaker 3: derivatives are interesting cultural artifacts because on one hand, they're

96
00:05:07,040 --> 00:05:10,680
Speaker 3: just like a genuine holiday fixture in millions of homes.

97
00:05:10,720 --> 00:05:13,880
Speaker 3: I couldn't find any reliable sources on viewcount because Netflix

98
00:05:13,880 --> 00:05:15,719
Speaker 3: doesn't release that kind of stuff as far as I know.

99
00:05:16,440 --> 00:05:19,479
Speaker 3: But in an interview with The Independent in twenty eighteen,

100
00:05:19,600 --> 00:05:23,039
Speaker 3: the director of Fireplace for Your Home, George Ford, I'll

101
00:05:23,040 --> 00:05:25,560
Speaker 3: come back to this in a minute, estimated that it

102
00:05:25,560 --> 00:05:28,279
Speaker 3: had been it had been watched more than seventy million

103
00:05:28,360 --> 00:05:31,240
Speaker 3: times in twenty eighteen. No idea if he's right about that,

104
00:05:31,279 --> 00:05:34,479
Speaker 3: But how am I going to argue with him? But

105
00:05:34,600 --> 00:05:37,800
Speaker 3: at the same time, I think it's funny that people

106
00:05:37,839 --> 00:05:40,760
Speaker 3: are putting this on to be cozy and feel good

107
00:05:40,800 --> 00:05:44,320
Speaker 3: at Christmas time, and yet this movie is also a

108
00:05:44,400 --> 00:05:47,880
Speaker 3: source of ironic amusement, Like when you bring it up,

109
00:05:48,000 --> 00:05:51,159
Speaker 3: people kind of there's something funny, Like they find something

110
00:05:51,240 --> 00:05:54,360
Speaker 3: kind of goofy about the idea of a cozy fire

111
00:05:54,440 --> 00:05:58,160
Speaker 3: happening inside their television. And if you look at reviews,

112
00:05:58,480 --> 00:06:01,279
Speaker 3: most of the reviews for this thing are jokes. They're

113
00:06:01,320 --> 00:06:04,880
Speaker 3: things like, you know, zero stars, nearly burned down my house.

114
00:06:05,160 --> 00:06:09,279
Speaker 3: It's like the joke is with the incongruity of the

115
00:06:09,279 --> 00:06:10,839
Speaker 3: fact that this is not a real fire.

116
00:06:11,480 --> 00:06:13,919
Speaker 1: It's not it won't it won't put out heat. And

117
00:06:13,960 --> 00:06:16,160
Speaker 1: if it is putting out heat, there's probably something wrong

118
00:06:16,200 --> 00:06:18,360
Speaker 1: with your television set. I mean, it'll put out a

119
00:06:18,360 --> 00:06:20,760
Speaker 1: little heat, right, Like, you shouldn't be putting out a

120
00:06:20,800 --> 00:06:22,520
Speaker 1: lot of heat. You shouldn't actually be able to warm

121
00:06:22,520 --> 00:06:23,360
Speaker 1: your buns by it.

122
00:06:23,600 --> 00:06:26,720
Speaker 3: You hope it's not putting out a lot. This is

123
00:06:26,760 --> 00:06:28,600
Speaker 3: actually this is kind of a tangent. But I got

124
00:06:28,600 --> 00:06:32,680
Speaker 3: interested thinking about what makes the difference between lovable holiday

125
00:06:32,800 --> 00:06:38,280
Speaker 3: kitch like fireplace for your home and a divisive experimental

126
00:06:38,400 --> 00:06:42,039
Speaker 3: art film like Andy Warhol's Empire, which if you're not

127
00:06:42,080 --> 00:06:44,720
Speaker 3: familiar with Empire, this is worth looking up. It's an

128
00:06:44,800 --> 00:06:49,039
Speaker 3: eight hour static shot of the illuminated upper floors of

129
00:06:49,120 --> 00:06:51,919
Speaker 3: the Empire State Building. I think it was actually filmed

130
00:06:51,920 --> 00:06:54,039
Speaker 3: over the course of roughly like six hours, and then

131
00:06:54,040 --> 00:06:56,200
Speaker 3: it's supposed to be played back at slow motion, so

132
00:06:56,320 --> 00:06:58,800
Speaker 3: the film takes like eight hours to watch. It was

133
00:06:58,800 --> 00:07:01,280
Speaker 3: filmed over the course of one night in July nineteen

134
00:07:01,360 --> 00:07:05,560
Speaker 3: sixty four, and you're just watching the buildings, like the

135
00:07:05,560 --> 00:07:08,040
Speaker 3: sun sets and the floodlights come on, and you just

136
00:07:08,120 --> 00:07:10,840
Speaker 3: watch the building through the night, and occasionally there'll be

137
00:07:11,160 --> 00:07:13,240
Speaker 3: you know, a plane going by or flashes of light

138
00:07:13,400 --> 00:07:17,840
Speaker 3: or something like that, but otherwise it's just a static shot. Obviously,

139
00:07:18,080 --> 00:07:21,720
Speaker 3: the movie Empire is more likely to be regarded as

140
00:07:21,760 --> 00:07:24,680
Speaker 3: either an important work of art with something interesting to

141
00:07:24,720 --> 00:07:29,240
Speaker 3: illustrate about passage of time or the aesthetics of film, or,

142
00:07:29,280 --> 00:07:31,640
Speaker 3: on the other hand, to be seen as a pretentious,

143
00:07:31,760 --> 00:07:36,720
Speaker 3: self infatuated, artistic boondoggle. Fireplace for your home does not

144
00:07:36,800 --> 00:07:40,760
Speaker 3: really invite either of these types of appraisal. It's just

145
00:07:40,920 --> 00:07:44,440
Speaker 3: you know, cozy holiday kitsch. However, I would say that

146
00:07:45,120 --> 00:07:47,800
Speaker 3: an hour long shot of a burning fireplace and an

147
00:07:47,800 --> 00:07:50,160
Speaker 3: eight hour shot of the floodlights on top of a

148
00:07:50,160 --> 00:07:53,880
Speaker 3: skyscraper have a lot of similarities. Both are what you

149
00:07:53,960 --> 00:07:59,080
Speaker 3: might call slow or atmospheric films without plot, characters, or dialogue,

150
00:07:59,400 --> 00:08:04,040
Speaker 3: primarily interested in just a purely aesthetic experience, maybe causing

151
00:08:04,320 --> 00:08:06,800
Speaker 3: maybe something about causing the viewer to have time to

152
00:08:06,920 --> 00:08:10,640
Speaker 3: relax and reflect without something directly taking up their attention

153
00:08:10,800 --> 00:08:15,400
Speaker 3: to too aggressively. And both of them, in terms of

154
00:08:15,480 --> 00:08:18,760
Speaker 3: visual display, are based on the interplay of light and shadow.

155
00:08:19,080 --> 00:08:22,080
Speaker 3: I read somebody described the glowing crown of the building

156
00:08:22,160 --> 00:08:25,960
Speaker 3: featured in Empire as a chandelier in the sky, and

157
00:08:26,200 --> 00:08:29,160
Speaker 3: based on an interview I was looking at it's clear

158
00:08:29,280 --> 00:08:31,560
Speaker 3: that fireplace for your home. It took a lot of

159
00:08:31,640 --> 00:08:34,400
Speaker 3: care to try to get the right interplay of lights

160
00:08:34,440 --> 00:08:36,400
Speaker 3: and colors in the fire and how they would be

161
00:08:36,400 --> 00:08:39,880
Speaker 3: picked up by the camera and the contrast of that

162
00:08:39,920 --> 00:08:42,480
Speaker 3: with the shadows in the room around. And so I

163
00:08:42,559 --> 00:08:44,440
Speaker 3: was thinking about if I had to single out a

164
00:08:44,480 --> 00:08:47,880
Speaker 3: major difference, like what would make the difference between the

165
00:08:48,240 --> 00:08:51,280
Speaker 3: kinds of feelings people have about them? Apart from the

166
00:08:51,400 --> 00:08:54,560
Speaker 3: length difference, I think a big thing is that there

167
00:08:54,800 --> 00:08:58,840
Speaker 3: is an understanding of a different expectation put on the viewer,

168
00:08:59,160 --> 00:09:02,359
Speaker 3: Like if you were asked to watch Andy Warhol's Empire.

169
00:09:02,760 --> 00:09:06,319
Speaker 3: People probably think that they're supposed to like sit silently

170
00:09:06,720 --> 00:09:09,160
Speaker 3: in an art house theater and look at the screen

171
00:09:09,240 --> 00:09:12,640
Speaker 3: the whole run time and think deep thoughts, whereas fireplace

172
00:09:12,679 --> 00:09:15,240
Speaker 3: for your home makes no such demands. You probably just

173
00:09:15,280 --> 00:09:17,720
Speaker 3: put it on in the background while you're having coffee

174
00:09:17,800 --> 00:09:19,560
Speaker 3: or while you're wrapping presents or something.

175
00:09:20,000 --> 00:09:22,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's interesting to think about the different ways we're

176
00:09:22,679 --> 00:09:28,040
Speaker 1: supposed to or do, interact with various media. Like I

177
00:09:28,080 --> 00:09:31,280
Speaker 1: was thinking about this recently. I went to a performance

178
00:09:31,679 --> 00:09:34,959
Speaker 1: that was maybe a little dry for my taste, and

179
00:09:35,360 --> 00:09:37,120
Speaker 1: in the same way, you know, you sometimes say, well,

180
00:09:37,160 --> 00:09:39,480
Speaker 1: this meeting could have been an email, I kind of

181
00:09:39,480 --> 00:09:42,280
Speaker 1: felt like this performance could have been an art installation,

182
00:09:42,440 --> 00:09:46,079
Speaker 1: you know, something where I walk through it, I spend

183
00:09:46,120 --> 00:09:48,200
Speaker 1: as much time with it as I want and sort

184
00:09:48,200 --> 00:09:51,120
Speaker 1: of like gain what I want from looking at it

185
00:09:51,480 --> 00:09:54,240
Speaker 1: walking through it and so forth. You know, I think

186
00:09:54,280 --> 00:09:56,760
Speaker 1: we've all been to This also sometimes breaks down into

187
00:09:56,760 --> 00:10:00,720
Speaker 1: actual video pieces, right where you'll see like short short

188
00:10:00,760 --> 00:10:03,720
Speaker 1: films or even longer pieces, and yeah, you could watch

189
00:10:03,760 --> 00:10:06,120
Speaker 1: them all in their entirety, or you could sort of

190
00:10:06,160 --> 00:10:09,720
Speaker 1: pass through and get a general sense of it, and

191
00:10:09,760 --> 00:10:11,560
Speaker 1: then on the other end, of the spectrum. Like you

192
00:10:11,600 --> 00:10:14,720
Speaker 1: look at the way people often treat their favorite television shows,

193
00:10:14,800 --> 00:10:16,800
Speaker 1: be it to you know, something's often something they have

194
00:10:16,800 --> 00:10:19,520
Speaker 1: a lot of nostalgia for. You hear people talking about,

195
00:10:19,600 --> 00:10:22,679
Speaker 1: say The Office or a Siginfeld or something like that,

196
00:10:23,040 --> 00:10:24,400
Speaker 1: and they talk about, well, you know, I just like

197
00:10:24,440 --> 00:10:26,000
Speaker 1: to put it on in the background while I'm working.

198
00:10:26,040 --> 00:10:28,480
Speaker 1: It just put it on while I'm working or you know,

199
00:10:28,559 --> 00:10:31,120
Speaker 1: doing things around the house. And you know it's you're

200
00:10:31,240 --> 00:10:37,320
Speaker 1: kind of treating the office like one of these virtual fireplaces,

201
00:10:37,360 --> 00:10:42,319
Speaker 1: something that is just generating a feeling in the background

202
00:10:42,840 --> 00:10:45,480
Speaker 1: of some stimuli in the background that you're not one

203
00:10:45,520 --> 00:10:48,000
Speaker 1: hundred percent focused on. In fact, I would say if

204
00:10:48,000 --> 00:10:50,160
Speaker 1: you are one hundred percent focused on one of these

205
00:10:50,160 --> 00:10:55,960
Speaker 1: fireplace videos, that may be a warning sign. You know,

206
00:10:56,000 --> 00:10:59,360
Speaker 1: it's like that's why not. I mean, however, you engage

207
00:10:59,400 --> 00:11:00,720
Speaker 1: with your art, that's fine.

208
00:11:01,240 --> 00:11:03,240
Speaker 3: Or it could be you're just trying to find the

209
00:11:04,040 --> 00:11:07,199
Speaker 3: warholiness of it. I mean, on the I have read

210
00:11:08,360 --> 00:11:11,840
Speaker 3: strange kinds of interpretations of fireplace for your home. Was

211
00:11:11,880 --> 00:11:16,280
Speaker 3: reading something that referred to an almost Lynchian meditation on

212
00:11:16,320 --> 00:11:21,040
Speaker 3: the synthetic and alienated faces of holiday cheer. That you

213
00:11:21,160 --> 00:11:23,640
Speaker 3: could see in fireplace for your home if you're looking

214
00:11:23,679 --> 00:11:25,320
Speaker 3: for it. But I was thinking about it in the

215
00:11:25,320 --> 00:11:28,960
Speaker 3: opposite direction, with the contrast with the Andy Warhol movie.

216
00:11:29,679 --> 00:11:31,960
Speaker 3: You could be like wrapping Christmas presents and you could

217
00:11:31,960 --> 00:11:34,120
Speaker 3: put Empire on in the background. It might not feel

218
00:11:34,160 --> 00:11:37,240
Speaker 3: any less appropriate. The other day, I just watched part

219
00:11:37,240 --> 00:11:40,480
Speaker 3: of Empires, like you can find it online, and however

220
00:11:41,200 --> 00:11:44,520
Speaker 3: orthogonal this is to Warhol's intensions, it actually does feel

221
00:11:44,559 --> 00:11:47,920
Speaker 3: quite seasonally festive. There's something about like the art deco

222
00:11:48,000 --> 00:11:50,720
Speaker 3: design of the Empire state building and the floodlights against

223
00:11:50,720 --> 00:11:54,120
Speaker 3: the dark knight skies, extremely cozy and felt like Christmas time.

224
00:11:55,080 --> 00:11:58,959
Speaker 1: Yeah, there have been a number of interesting related I

225
00:11:59,000 --> 00:12:05,080
Speaker 1: guess ambient audio visual experiences. Netflix hosted multiple moving art

226
00:12:05,640 --> 00:12:09,240
Speaker 1: works by Lewis Schwarzberg. This is the guy who also

227
00:12:09,240 --> 00:12:12,400
Speaker 1: directed the twenty nineteen film Fantastic Fun Guy, which is

228
00:12:13,040 --> 00:12:17,800
Speaker 1: more traditional in its structure, But the moving art show,

229
00:12:18,080 --> 00:12:20,200
Speaker 1: I guess, you know, they were like one hour long each,

230
00:12:20,280 --> 00:12:23,559
Speaker 1: maybe less. You know, It's just pleasing music, a lot

231
00:12:23,559 --> 00:12:27,400
Speaker 1: of cool ambient nature footage, and it's like great stuff.

232
00:12:27,400 --> 00:12:29,000
Speaker 1: It was great stuff to take a nap to, you know.

233
00:12:30,080 --> 00:12:32,960
Speaker 1: But still have something visual going on in the room

234
00:12:33,000 --> 00:12:37,080
Speaker 1: as well. Disney has also got in on this with

235
00:12:37,160 --> 00:12:41,320
Speaker 1: some great long ambient Star Wars themed av presentations like

236
00:12:41,360 --> 00:12:44,320
Speaker 1: it'll be a landscape of Hath or something like that.

237
00:12:45,800 --> 00:12:48,480
Speaker 1: So it seems like, you know, enough people were doing

238
00:12:48,559 --> 00:12:50,280
Speaker 1: this kind of thing they realized, well, let's put that

239
00:12:50,280 --> 00:12:52,800
Speaker 1: out there. I mean, we also have sort of screen

240
00:12:52,880 --> 00:12:55,880
Speaker 1: savory type things that pop up on Apple televisions right

241
00:12:56,640 --> 00:12:59,400
Speaker 1: and various apps and so forth, where instead of just

242
00:12:59,440 --> 00:13:01,560
Speaker 1: looking at an ad, they're going to show you a

243
00:13:01,600 --> 00:13:03,280
Speaker 1: city scape or something like that.

244
00:13:05,280 --> 00:13:06,800
Speaker 3: I didn't know about the Star Wars thing.

245
00:13:06,840 --> 00:13:10,440
Speaker 1: I don't look that up. They're pretty good Wampa attacks

246
00:13:10,480 --> 00:13:14,880
Speaker 1: to study, relax to yeah, well yeah, nothing really happens.

247
00:13:14,880 --> 00:13:17,000
Speaker 1: Maybe a spaceship flies over, you know. Yeah. They keep

248
00:13:17,000 --> 00:13:20,319
Speaker 1: it chill, they keep it ambient. And it's an interesting

249
00:13:20,559 --> 00:13:22,439
Speaker 1: I mean, because the idea of the TV being on

250
00:13:22,600 --> 00:13:27,800
Speaker 1: NonStop as being this flood of ideas into your home

251
00:13:27,840 --> 00:13:29,960
Speaker 1: and into your life, like this is nothing new. We've

252
00:13:30,000 --> 00:13:32,000
Speaker 1: been doing this, We've been using our televisions like this

253
00:13:32,120 --> 00:13:36,640
Speaker 1: since we've had televisions, and it's it's really almost kind

254
00:13:36,640 --> 00:13:39,720
Speaker 1: of a refined idea to think, well, you know, let's

255
00:13:39,800 --> 00:13:43,200
Speaker 1: let them have an hour two hour blocks of just

256
00:13:43,480 --> 00:13:47,880
Speaker 1: you know, very ambient, chill audio visual stimuli instead of

257
00:13:47,920 --> 00:13:49,679
Speaker 1: just NonStop ads and so forth.

258
00:13:49,679 --> 00:13:52,240
Speaker 3: I don't know, well, yeah, yeah, and I mean and

259
00:13:52,280 --> 00:13:54,160
Speaker 3: part of the reason I brought this up is to

260
00:13:54,200 --> 00:13:57,240
Speaker 3: think about the the similarities and differences in the way

261
00:13:57,240 --> 00:14:00,400
Speaker 3: people are now seeming to use a TV like would

262
00:14:00,480 --> 00:14:03,520
Speaker 3: once or in many cases still do use a fireplace

263
00:14:03,559 --> 00:14:07,320
Speaker 3: as a primarily you know, not primarily to heat the house,

264
00:14:07,480 --> 00:14:10,040
Speaker 3: but because they probably have another heating system as well,

265
00:14:10,320 --> 00:14:13,120
Speaker 3: but as an esthetic experience. It's something that supplies a

266
00:14:13,200 --> 00:14:16,320
Speaker 3: kind of mood or ambience to the room that makes

267
00:14:16,360 --> 00:14:18,600
Speaker 3: you feel a way you want to feel, or helps

268
00:14:18,600 --> 00:14:20,800
Speaker 3: you focus your attention in a way that you want

269
00:14:20,800 --> 00:14:23,880
Speaker 3: to Anyway, I just wanted to mention a couple of

270
00:14:23,920 --> 00:14:26,200
Speaker 3: funny things that I found out about because I read

271
00:14:26,240 --> 00:14:28,920
Speaker 3: a couple of interviews with the creator of Fireplace for

272
00:14:29,000 --> 00:14:32,360
Speaker 3: Your Home, an American director named George Ford, who lives

273
00:14:32,400 --> 00:14:35,880
Speaker 3: in Washington State, whose primary job is, or at least

274
00:14:36,040 --> 00:14:38,360
Speaker 3: was at the time of these interviews, running a pet

275
00:14:38,360 --> 00:14:42,480
Speaker 3: supply company, but he also directed a number of these

276
00:14:42,560 --> 00:14:45,200
Speaker 3: like static shot genre films. One is like a mountain

277
00:14:45,240 --> 00:14:48,560
Speaker 3: stream flowing. There's another thing of like fish bopping around

278
00:14:48,600 --> 00:14:52,160
Speaker 3: in a saltwater aquarium. But apparently this started with him

279
00:14:52,200 --> 00:14:55,800
Speaker 3: making these cat entertainment DVDs, the goal of which is

280
00:14:55,840 --> 00:14:58,560
Speaker 3: to like drive your cat insane with images of mice

281
00:14:58,640 --> 00:14:59,800
Speaker 3: running all over the place.

282
00:15:00,520 --> 00:15:04,640
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, yeah. There are various YouTube accounts that specialized

283
00:15:04,640 --> 00:15:05,960
Speaker 1: in this sort of thing as well, and some of

284
00:15:06,040 --> 00:15:08,400
Speaker 1: those can be quite cheerful, you know, until the YouTube

285
00:15:08,400 --> 00:15:09,040
Speaker 1: ads cut in.

286
00:15:09,640 --> 00:15:11,760
Speaker 3: Yeah, I guess YouTube must have really cut into the

287
00:15:11,800 --> 00:15:15,120
Speaker 3: DVD market for these things. He used to like twenty

288
00:15:15,240 --> 00:15:17,400
Speaker 3: years ago you'd pick up in Pet Smart or something.

289
00:15:18,400 --> 00:15:20,720
Speaker 3: But anyway, these interviews, one of them was with The

290
00:15:20,760 --> 00:15:23,960
Speaker 3: Independent in twenty eighteen and others with CBC in twenty

291
00:15:24,040 --> 00:15:27,440
Speaker 3: twenty two. A few takeaways that seemed interesting to me.

292
00:15:27,560 --> 00:15:31,240
Speaker 3: This guy was inspired in part by pre existing hearth

293
00:15:31,320 --> 00:15:34,120
Speaker 3: and fireplace films, So Fireplace for your Home not the

294
00:15:34,120 --> 00:15:36,760
Speaker 3: first thing of its type. One example is a film

295
00:15:36,800 --> 00:15:39,640
Speaker 3: that used to run on Christmas even Christmas on the

296
00:15:39,920 --> 00:15:43,480
Speaker 3: New York TV market. It was on a station called WPIX,

297
00:15:43,560 --> 00:15:46,880
Speaker 3: Channel eleven. This started in the nineteen sixties and it

298
00:15:46,920 --> 00:15:48,520
Speaker 3: was this thing that was like two to four hours

299
00:15:48,560 --> 00:15:52,080
Speaker 3: long depending on the instance, that would play a video

300
00:15:52,120 --> 00:15:55,160
Speaker 3: loop showing a log burning in a fireplace with Christmas

301
00:15:55,280 --> 00:15:59,160
Speaker 3: music playing over the top. And I read in turn

302
00:15:59,280 --> 00:16:01,760
Speaker 3: that this was the idea of somebody who worked at

303
00:16:01,760 --> 00:16:04,520
Speaker 3: this TV station who was inspired by like a Coca

304
00:16:04,560 --> 00:16:09,000
Speaker 3: Cola commercial that he saw. But another thing from these

305
00:16:09,040 --> 00:16:11,720
Speaker 3: interviews is that Ford talked about how his kids would

306
00:16:11,800 --> 00:16:14,479
Speaker 3: keep begging him to build a fire around the holidays

307
00:16:14,480 --> 00:16:16,440
Speaker 3: because you know, yeah, I remember when I was a kid,

308
00:16:16,520 --> 00:16:18,480
Speaker 3: I wanted a fire in the fireplace. That was fun.

309
00:16:19,080 --> 00:16:21,800
Speaker 3: And it occurred to him that it would be easier too,

310
00:16:22,000 --> 00:16:26,080
Speaker 3: in his words, quote, just place a television inside our fireplace,

311
00:16:26,120 --> 00:16:30,280
Speaker 3: hearth easier than to keep making a real fire. So

312
00:16:30,320 --> 00:16:34,040
Speaker 3: he like pitched this to Netflix multiple times. They initially

313
00:16:34,120 --> 00:16:36,520
Speaker 3: ignored him or laughed him off, but eventually he got

314
00:16:36,520 --> 00:16:40,000
Speaker 3: some traction. And he claims again it can't verify this,

315
00:16:40,120 --> 00:16:42,720
Speaker 3: but according to the director, the First Fireplace for Your

316
00:16:42,760 --> 00:16:45,640
Speaker 3: Home film took him two years to make and cost

317
00:16:45,680 --> 00:16:49,160
Speaker 3: almost thirty five thousand dollars to produce. This would not

318
00:16:49,200 --> 00:16:52,160
Speaker 3: be Netflix money, by the way. It was actually that

319
00:16:52,240 --> 00:16:54,760
Speaker 3: he made these films independently, and then I think sold

320
00:16:54,840 --> 00:16:58,200
Speaker 3: the Distro rights to Netflix later on, like, how on

321
00:16:58,240 --> 00:17:01,640
Speaker 3: earth could it actually be that difficult? Well, again, can't

322
00:17:01,720 --> 00:17:04,280
Speaker 3: verify the figures are true, but the explanation kind of

323
00:17:04,280 --> 00:17:07,720
Speaker 3: makes sense to me. Speaking to The Independent, he said, quote,

324
00:17:07,840 --> 00:17:11,920
Speaker 3: we battled timing issues, color audio and general high resolution

325
00:17:12,040 --> 00:17:15,000
Speaker 3: problems along the way. Special cameras have to be used

326
00:17:15,000 --> 00:17:18,720
Speaker 3: around flames, and only certain color temperatures work. That's why

327
00:17:18,760 --> 00:17:21,680
Speaker 3: you just don't see an open flame much in movies.

328
00:17:22,520 --> 00:17:24,919
Speaker 3: And I was like, oh, that is interesting. You know,

329
00:17:24,960 --> 00:17:27,320
Speaker 3: I think for a cozy fire on a TV screen,

330
00:17:27,920 --> 00:17:30,359
Speaker 3: we kind of have some criteria that we might not

331
00:17:30,440 --> 00:17:32,239
Speaker 3: even be aware of. But we'd like to see the

332
00:17:32,359 --> 00:17:35,240
Speaker 3: warmer colors of the fire, don't We want some red,

333
00:17:35,320 --> 00:17:39,320
Speaker 3: orange and yellow. But a roaring fire on camera, especially

334
00:17:39,320 --> 00:17:41,080
Speaker 3: not the right kind of camera and not the right

335
00:17:41,160 --> 00:17:43,919
Speaker 3: kind of shot, just doesn't always look like that. I

336
00:17:43,920 --> 00:17:46,320
Speaker 3: can think of a lot of old movies and video

337
00:17:46,400 --> 00:17:50,800
Speaker 3: where camera where a camera catching a fireplace looks either

338
00:17:50,920 --> 00:17:54,360
Speaker 3: just like a white glare or it's like invisible somehow.

339
00:17:55,040 --> 00:17:56,920
Speaker 1: M that's a good point. Now I'm going to have

340
00:17:56,960 --> 00:17:59,520
Speaker 1: to be extra judging when I watch films with fireplaces

341
00:17:59,520 --> 00:18:00,480
Speaker 1: in them.

342
00:18:00,640 --> 00:18:03,200
Speaker 3: Apart from the technical concerns. This gets back to the

343
00:18:03,240 --> 00:18:06,800
Speaker 3: things about like what elements of the simulation are important

344
00:18:06,880 --> 00:18:09,800
Speaker 3: to capture. They also went through a lot of tries

345
00:18:09,840 --> 00:18:12,479
Speaker 3: actually getting the logs to burn right in like an

346
00:18:12,520 --> 00:18:15,600
Speaker 3: aesthetically pleasing way. They wanted the right sounds of like

347
00:18:15,640 --> 00:18:20,000
Speaker 3: a crackle and snap and a visually symmetrical flame. And

348
00:18:20,119 --> 00:18:21,760
Speaker 3: also to make the fire in such a way that

349
00:18:21,800 --> 00:18:23,920
Speaker 3: it requires no intervention so you don't have to keep

350
00:18:23,960 --> 00:18:27,479
Speaker 3: like poking it reaching in front of the camera. And

351
00:18:27,560 --> 00:18:30,680
Speaker 3: another hilarious thing that I did not know so you

352
00:18:31,359 --> 00:18:35,240
Speaker 3: filled me in about the Witcher themed fireplace, But according

353
00:18:35,280 --> 00:18:39,119
Speaker 3: to this guy, Netflix did a fireplace tie in with

354
00:18:39,160 --> 00:18:43,800
Speaker 3: some dystopian movie they made called Bright and they summarized this,

355
00:18:44,040 --> 00:18:46,320
Speaker 3: I haven't seen this movie, but it's like it's got

356
00:18:46,400 --> 00:18:49,520
Speaker 3: like elves and orcs in what is otherwise just a

357
00:18:49,520 --> 00:18:53,840
Speaker 3: buddy cop movie. And they called this burn barrel for

358
00:18:53,920 --> 00:18:54,320
Speaker 3: your home.

359
00:18:54,960 --> 00:18:59,359
Speaker 1: I have not seen this one, but I mean, in general,

360
00:18:59,400 --> 00:19:02,960
Speaker 1: I'm all for this. Let's have let's have more of these.

361
00:19:03,800 --> 00:19:07,640
Speaker 1: I'm just looking around. It's possible that they just unleashed

362
00:19:07,640 --> 00:19:12,120
Speaker 1: one for squid Game. If so, excellent, keep it keep

363
00:19:12,119 --> 00:19:14,840
Speaker 1: it going. I need all Netflix series. I'm really kind

364
00:19:14,840 --> 00:19:17,440
Speaker 1: of pissed we didn't get one for Gama Do Toro's

365
00:19:17,840 --> 00:19:20,399
Speaker 1: Cabinet of Curiosities. We knew we really needed, like a

366
00:19:20,480 --> 00:19:25,959
Speaker 1: linel lasseter themed a fireplace that would have been ideal.

367
00:19:26,400 --> 00:19:29,920
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, like a fireplace that that talks extensively about

368
00:19:29,960 --> 00:19:31,400
Speaker 3: what kind of drink it's making you.

369
00:19:31,920 --> 00:19:33,760
Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't know, I mean, but seriously, can you

370
00:19:33,800 --> 00:19:38,160
Speaker 1: imagine if Panels Coos Motos did a fireplace hour long

371
00:19:38,240 --> 00:19:41,520
Speaker 1: video for Netflix? That would be amazing. Imagine how glorious

372
00:19:41,560 --> 00:19:42,560
Speaker 1: that fireplace would.

373
00:19:42,359 --> 00:19:55,880
Speaker 3: Look some kind of creature slowly melting. Oh but one

374
00:19:55,960 --> 00:19:59,240
Speaker 3: last thing about the fireplace director. Speaking to the CBC,

375
00:19:59,440 --> 00:20:01,480
Speaker 3: they ask him why do we love to stare at

376
00:20:01,520 --> 00:20:03,960
Speaker 3: a fireplace even if it's not putting out heat like

377
00:20:03,960 --> 00:20:06,480
Speaker 3: a real woman would. He mentioned a number of things,

378
00:20:06,520 --> 00:20:09,760
Speaker 3: but one that he mentions this might seem kind of obvious,

379
00:20:09,800 --> 00:20:11,920
Speaker 3: but he says, you know, a fireplace looks like safety,

380
00:20:12,800 --> 00:20:16,560
Speaker 3: and I think that's true. Something feels very like safe,

381
00:20:16,840 --> 00:20:19,919
Speaker 3: enclosed and contained about it, which is funny because actually,

382
00:20:19,920 --> 00:20:22,040
Speaker 3: like putting a fire inside your house is one of

383
00:20:22,040 --> 00:20:23,640
Speaker 3: the more dangerous things you might do.

384
00:20:24,520 --> 00:20:26,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, but like this is the place to do it,

385
00:20:26,880 --> 00:20:29,400
Speaker 1: and it's it's the thing that we have, and it's

386
00:20:29,400 --> 00:20:31,199
Speaker 1: the thing we have a very long history with, you know,

387
00:20:31,280 --> 00:20:34,000
Speaker 1: our you know, going back through times, will be discussing

388
00:20:34,040 --> 00:20:36,679
Speaker 1: like this is what the house was built around. It

389
00:20:36,760 --> 00:20:39,280
Speaker 1: is the heart of the house. It is the center

390
00:20:39,400 --> 00:20:41,280
Speaker 1: of the house, and it is therefore the center of

391
00:20:41,320 --> 00:20:41,960
Speaker 1: your lives.

392
00:20:42,520 --> 00:20:44,520
Speaker 3: That's right. So I don't know if I meant to

393
00:20:44,600 --> 00:20:46,800
Speaker 3: end up talking that long about fireplace for your home.

394
00:20:46,840 --> 00:20:50,080
Speaker 3: Apologies it was a bit much, But I don't know.

395
00:20:50,119 --> 00:20:51,800
Speaker 3: I think it does raise some issues that I might

396
00:20:51,880 --> 00:20:54,480
Speaker 3: want to keep returning to as we think more about

397
00:20:54,480 --> 00:20:56,760
Speaker 3: the fireplace and what it means to us over the

398
00:20:56,800 --> 00:20:59,600
Speaker 3: course of the next couple episodes. But one thing I

399
00:20:59,640 --> 00:21:03,960
Speaker 3: did want to cover briefly is the prehistory of human

400
00:21:04,040 --> 00:21:06,679
Speaker 3: control of fire. Now, we've gone into this in depth

401
00:21:06,760 --> 00:21:09,439
Speaker 3: in other episodes, so we're not going to rehash all

402
00:21:09,480 --> 00:21:11,520
Speaker 3: that material in the same level of depth here. I

403
00:21:11,560 --> 00:21:14,160
Speaker 3: just wanted to do a sort of quick overview of

404
00:21:14,359 --> 00:21:17,320
Speaker 3: some things we've talked about. A paper we've referenced on

405
00:21:17,359 --> 00:21:20,240
Speaker 3: the show before that is highly cited on this subject

406
00:21:20,680 --> 00:21:24,800
Speaker 3: is from twenty sixteen published in Philosophical Transactions of the

407
00:21:24,880 --> 00:21:28,760
Speaker 3: Royal Society. B by JAJ. Gawlett called the discovery of

408
00:21:28,760 --> 00:21:33,399
Speaker 3: fire by humans a long and convoluted process. Now, this

409
00:21:33,480 --> 00:21:38,200
Speaker 3: paper posits that human control of fire in prehistory probably

410
00:21:38,280 --> 00:21:43,119
Speaker 3: constituted three general phases, and the first stage would be

411
00:21:43,200 --> 00:21:46,520
Speaker 3: humans engaging in something we actually see in other animals,

412
00:21:46,560 --> 00:21:51,520
Speaker 3: which is fire. Following this would be opportunistically taking advantage

413
00:21:51,560 --> 00:21:55,560
Speaker 3: of natural fires caused most often by lightning strikes, lightning

414
00:21:55,560 --> 00:22:00,960
Speaker 3: striking brush, but less often by like weird ignition sourcesvolcanic eruptions,

415
00:22:01,680 --> 00:22:03,960
Speaker 3: but whatever the cause of the fire. This phase would

416
00:22:04,000 --> 00:22:07,280
Speaker 3: be humans notice a natural fire is occurring and then

417
00:22:07,359 --> 00:22:11,919
Speaker 3: swoop in to take advantage of it in various ways,

418
00:22:12,000 --> 00:22:14,959
Speaker 3: like to capture prey that is flushed out of hiding,

419
00:22:15,359 --> 00:22:18,480
Speaker 3: or to scavenge and eat a prey that has been

420
00:22:18,560 --> 00:22:20,840
Speaker 3: killed and maybe even cooked by the fire in some

421
00:22:20,920 --> 00:22:24,719
Speaker 3: way like oh, it's nicely roasted now, or to in

422
00:22:25,000 --> 00:22:28,600
Speaker 3: various other ways take advantage of natural resources revealed or

423
00:22:28,640 --> 00:22:33,399
Speaker 3: transformed by a burn. And then after the wildfire foraging stage,

424
00:22:33,400 --> 00:22:36,760
Speaker 3: you've got the second and third phases, which postulate control

425
00:22:36,880 --> 00:22:39,560
Speaker 3: of the fire within the living space. So the second

426
00:22:39,560 --> 00:22:43,920
Speaker 3: phase is domestic fire primarily used for cooking and safety.

427
00:22:44,200 --> 00:22:46,560
Speaker 3: And then the third phase is what you might call

428
00:22:46,640 --> 00:22:51,440
Speaker 3: industrial fire, the transformation of used for the transformation of

429
00:22:51,520 --> 00:22:56,159
Speaker 3: resources and technology, like the production of baked pottery, and

430
00:22:56,240 --> 00:22:59,200
Speaker 3: so going into the second and third phases, you see

431
00:22:59,200 --> 00:23:04,399
Speaker 3: this sporadic an opportunistic relationship to rare natural fires transform

432
00:23:04,520 --> 00:23:08,480
Speaker 3: into the capture and maintenance of fire first, like feeding

433
00:23:08,520 --> 00:23:11,320
Speaker 3: a fire continuous fuel to keep it burning after you've

434
00:23:11,359 --> 00:23:14,840
Speaker 3: caught it from a natural source. And then eventually humans

435
00:23:14,840 --> 00:23:17,679
Speaker 3: would learn to strike fire from nothing with implements like

436
00:23:17,760 --> 00:23:21,840
Speaker 3: flintstone's and tender Now what's the general timeline for these

437
00:23:21,880 --> 00:23:26,000
Speaker 3: early stages of fire control. Well, it's messy and it's

438
00:23:26,000 --> 00:23:30,679
Speaker 3: still debated. The oldest evidence that anybody seriously proposes for

439
00:23:30,880 --> 00:23:34,399
Speaker 3: human control of fire goes back to our hominin relatives

440
00:23:34,520 --> 00:23:36,960
Speaker 3: roughly one to two million years ago, So at the

441
00:23:37,000 --> 00:23:40,159
Speaker 3: farthest it might go back like two million years but

442
00:23:40,400 --> 00:23:43,639
Speaker 3: this evidence is ambiguous. So you can have things like

443
00:23:44,160 --> 00:23:47,320
Speaker 3: charred or baked remains buried at a site that was

444
00:23:47,359 --> 00:23:51,720
Speaker 3: occupied by hominins around the same time between one and

445
00:23:51,760 --> 00:23:54,720
Speaker 3: two million years ago. But with these cases it's not

446
00:23:54,920 --> 00:23:57,840
Speaker 3: always clear if this is the result of deliberate fire

447
00:23:57,880 --> 00:24:02,600
Speaker 3: control or of natural burning and like scavenging of burned materials.

448
00:24:03,000 --> 00:24:05,600
Speaker 3: Gallot in the paper mentions a couple of sites of

449
00:24:05,640 --> 00:24:09,880
Speaker 3: this kind in Kenya containing like burned sediments, stone tools

450
00:24:09,920 --> 00:24:12,560
Speaker 3: that appear to have been altered by heat, and a

451
00:24:12,560 --> 00:24:15,600
Speaker 3: couple of large hunks of baked clay, but again it's

452
00:24:15,640 --> 00:24:19,560
Speaker 3: not clear if these are from natural fires or controlled burning.

453
00:24:21,240 --> 00:24:25,119
Speaker 3: A lot of the archaeological investigation for the emergence of

454
00:24:25,160 --> 00:24:28,680
Speaker 3: fire control has focused on looking for what are called hearths.

455
00:24:28,760 --> 00:24:30,880
Speaker 3: In the literature, that's going to be a little bit

456
00:24:30,880 --> 00:24:34,960
Speaker 3: different than the way we're using hearth primarily in these episodes,

457
00:24:35,520 --> 00:24:38,919
Speaker 3: because this would not necessarily refer to indoor fireplaces, but

458
00:24:39,040 --> 00:24:42,120
Speaker 3: could refer to any dedicated place for burning. So, in

459
00:24:42,160 --> 00:24:46,040
Speaker 3: like the archaeological papers, a hearth just means the remains

460
00:24:46,080 --> 00:24:49,080
Speaker 3: of a place that was used for a purposeful fire,

461
00:24:49,840 --> 00:24:53,440
Speaker 3: and there is pretty unambiguous evidence for hearths starting several

462
00:24:53,560 --> 00:24:57,200
Speaker 3: hundred thousand years ago. There are more traces of human

463
00:24:57,240 --> 00:25:00,840
Speaker 3: associated burning beginning around one million years ago, and then

464
00:25:00,880 --> 00:25:04,840
Speaker 3: the hearths really start popping up in Africa, Asia, Europe,

465
00:25:04,840 --> 00:25:07,280
Speaker 3: in the Middle East around four hundred thousand years ago

466
00:25:07,320 --> 00:25:08,720
Speaker 3: when you start seeing a lot of them.

467
00:25:09,240 --> 00:25:12,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, just based on materials I've been looking at. The

468
00:25:12,680 --> 00:25:15,560
Speaker 1: exact usage of the term hearth is going to depend

469
00:25:15,600 --> 00:25:20,040
Speaker 1: on a large part on exactly what the researchers and

470
00:25:20,160 --> 00:25:22,240
Speaker 1: or the paper or the book is dealing with, Like

471
00:25:22,280 --> 00:25:25,840
Speaker 1: are we dealing with with an age in which people

472
00:25:25,880 --> 00:25:30,679
Speaker 1: are living in homes or some other situation, and then

473
00:25:30,720 --> 00:25:33,040
Speaker 1: the exact nature of the homes varies as well. Yeah.

474
00:25:33,119 --> 00:25:35,560
Speaker 3: Yeah, hearth in the main way we're using it in

475
00:25:35,600 --> 00:25:37,320
Speaker 3: this series is going to refer to a piece of

476
00:25:37,359 --> 00:25:40,840
Speaker 3: infrastructure in a home, like a constructed enclosure made of

477
00:25:40,840 --> 00:25:44,000
Speaker 3: fireproof materials that contains the fireplace.

478
00:25:44,600 --> 00:25:46,320
Speaker 1: Right. But there may be a time or two where

479
00:25:46,320 --> 00:25:48,000
Speaker 1: we use the term hearth and you might think are

480
00:25:48,000 --> 00:25:50,760
Speaker 1: they talking about a home? Well, in a few cases

481
00:25:50,800 --> 00:25:52,760
Speaker 1: we might be referring to some material that's dealing with

482
00:25:52,920 --> 00:25:56,280
Speaker 1: some other situation. But yeah, for the most part, we're

483
00:25:56,320 --> 00:25:59,880
Speaker 1: dealing with hear, hearthstones and gotten something along the lines

484
00:25:59,880 --> 00:26:00,760
Speaker 1: of a fireplace.

485
00:26:01,240 --> 00:26:04,400
Speaker 3: Now, there are tons of ways that gaining control over

486
00:26:04,480 --> 00:26:08,680
Speaker 3: fire transformed humankind. Of course, one thing is it would

487
00:26:08,720 --> 00:26:12,760
Speaker 3: have expanded our geographic range, making it easier to migrate

488
00:26:12,800 --> 00:26:17,240
Speaker 3: into colder climates and higher altitudes. It allowed us to

489
00:26:18,080 --> 00:26:23,480
Speaker 3: expand our technological regime through the transformation of natural resources. Again,

490
00:26:23,520 --> 00:26:26,560
Speaker 3: a very good example is pottery fired pottery, but also

491
00:26:27,000 --> 00:26:30,080
Speaker 3: things you might not think of as readily, like adhesives

492
00:26:30,119 --> 00:26:33,920
Speaker 3: for hafting, the famous birch bark tar that we talked

493
00:26:33,960 --> 00:26:37,000
Speaker 3: about in some episodes in the past, and other things

494
00:26:37,040 --> 00:26:39,520
Speaker 3: you know you can make like various glues out of

495
00:26:39,600 --> 00:26:43,240
Speaker 3: natural substances that involves some element of heating. Also the

496
00:26:43,280 --> 00:26:47,760
Speaker 3: heating of stones for improved napping. Some silicon based stones

497
00:26:48,160 --> 00:26:51,240
Speaker 3: they nap better, you know, they flake off into the

498
00:26:51,320 --> 00:26:53,639
Speaker 3: kinds of sharp edges that you're looking for with a

499
00:26:53,720 --> 00:26:57,080
Speaker 3: napping exercise if you heat them the right way. But

500
00:26:57,400 --> 00:27:00,399
Speaker 3: a big thing, of course, is the importance of cooking.

501
00:27:00,440 --> 00:27:03,639
Speaker 3: The importance of fire for cooking really hard to overstate.

502
00:27:04,160 --> 00:27:07,200
Speaker 3: Now there is a real scholarly debate about the extent

503
00:27:07,240 --> 00:27:10,840
Speaker 3: to which cooking actually could have transformed the human body.

504
00:27:10,920 --> 00:27:14,439
Speaker 3: This is known as the cooking hypothesis. The base idea

505
00:27:14,600 --> 00:27:17,600
Speaker 3: is that the ability to cook otherwise hard to digest

506
00:27:17,720 --> 00:27:22,919
Speaker 3: foods actually steered hominine evolution, changing not just our culture

507
00:27:22,960 --> 00:27:26,120
Speaker 3: but our bodies. Allowing us to grow more powerful brains

508
00:27:26,160 --> 00:27:29,639
Speaker 3: by devoting less energy to a hardy gut. Though I

509
00:27:29,640 --> 00:27:32,880
Speaker 3: should stress that the cooking hypothesis is not proven. There

510
00:27:32,880 --> 00:27:35,439
Speaker 3: are arguments against it, mainly having to do with the

511
00:27:35,560 --> 00:27:38,040
Speaker 3: timing that would be required and lack of evidence for

512
00:27:38,119 --> 00:27:42,200
Speaker 3: control of fire at the required times. So we don't

513
00:27:42,200 --> 00:27:46,080
Speaker 3: know about the cooking hypothesis hypothesis in terms of human evolution.

514
00:27:46,359 --> 00:27:49,560
Speaker 3: But what cannot be doubted is that the invention of

515
00:27:49,560 --> 00:27:54,240
Speaker 3: cooking massively expanded the base nutrition yield of food we acquired.

516
00:27:54,280 --> 00:27:56,440
Speaker 3: So it just made it possible to get a lot

517
00:27:56,480 --> 00:27:58,880
Speaker 3: more nutrition out of your food. And it also made

518
00:27:58,880 --> 00:28:02,600
Speaker 3: food safer by calling food borne pathogens and neutralizing some

519
00:28:02,760 --> 00:28:06,879
Speaker 3: plant toxins. So it just unlocked a gigantic level up

520
00:28:06,920 --> 00:28:07,480
Speaker 3: in nutrition.

521
00:28:08,240 --> 00:28:11,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, there's like a real sort It's often described as

522
00:28:11,600 --> 00:28:15,040
Speaker 1: kind of an externalization of digestion, like a lot of

523
00:28:15,040 --> 00:28:20,440
Speaker 1: the chemistry of digestion and potential chemistry of digestion handled

524
00:28:20,440 --> 00:28:24,159
Speaker 1: outside the body, taking the strain off of the body,

525
00:28:24,160 --> 00:28:28,200
Speaker 1: making things that we could need otherwise edible or more

526
00:28:28,280 --> 00:28:32,119
Speaker 1: nutritious and so forth. Yeah, and then there's you know,

527
00:28:32,240 --> 00:28:36,119
Speaker 1: additional areas you can get into, like food preservation and

528
00:28:36,160 --> 00:28:36,639
Speaker 1: so forth.

529
00:28:36,920 --> 00:28:40,440
Speaker 3: Yeah. Also with control of fire, you have protection against

530
00:28:40,520 --> 00:28:43,600
Speaker 3: wild predators which tend to be afraid of fire and

531
00:28:43,680 --> 00:28:46,719
Speaker 3: are easier to drive away with it. And then finally

532
00:28:46,720 --> 00:28:50,160
Speaker 3: you've got provision of light in the darkness. And the

533
00:28:50,200 --> 00:28:54,440
Speaker 3: way in which fire provides light in the darkness I

534
00:28:54,480 --> 00:28:58,880
Speaker 3: think is interesting because of how it is different from

535
00:28:59,000 --> 00:29:03,160
Speaker 3: the light provided by the sun, and to say nothing

536
00:29:03,200 --> 00:29:05,160
Speaker 3: of the way that it's different from the kind of

537
00:29:05,240 --> 00:29:07,880
Speaker 3: light provided by electrical light sources that we have today.

538
00:29:08,200 --> 00:29:10,560
Speaker 3: That's something I want to come back to in part two,

539
00:29:10,800 --> 00:29:17,120
Speaker 3: to think about the particular light regime of fire based societies.

540
00:29:17,840 --> 00:29:18,080
Speaker 2: Yeah.

541
00:29:18,240 --> 00:29:21,320
Speaker 1: Yeah, this is something I was thinking a lot about recently.

542
00:29:21,680 --> 00:29:23,960
Speaker 1: When I visited Wales with my family. We went to

543
00:29:24,000 --> 00:29:27,280
Speaker 1: Saint Fagan's National Museum of History, which has a lot

544
00:29:27,280 --> 00:29:31,560
Speaker 1: of these historic Welsh buildings that have been moved to

545
00:29:31,600 --> 00:29:34,040
Speaker 1: this area where you can check them out, you can

546
00:29:34,080 --> 00:29:37,240
Speaker 1: walk inside them, and in many of these buildings they

547
00:29:37,240 --> 00:29:40,480
Speaker 1: had a fireplace going and that was often like the

548
00:29:40,480 --> 00:29:43,400
Speaker 1: main form of illumination and there may or may not

549
00:29:43,520 --> 00:29:47,280
Speaker 1: even be any windows, and it's such an insight into

550
00:29:47,800 --> 00:29:52,400
Speaker 1: times when you would be inhabiting an indoor environment like that.

551
00:29:52,480 --> 00:29:55,840
Speaker 1: You know, we were totally spoiled for indoor illumination. These days,

552
00:29:56,440 --> 00:29:58,760
Speaker 1: you can have your house generally as bright as you

553
00:29:58,840 --> 00:30:04,360
Speaker 1: want it, like astoundingly bright. But it's an interesting experience

554
00:30:04,400 --> 00:30:07,520
Speaker 1: to sort of step back in time and appreciate like

555
00:30:07,560 --> 00:30:10,000
Speaker 1: the challenges and not to say that they were restricted

556
00:30:10,040 --> 00:30:12,560
Speaker 1: only to the hearth fire. There are other you know,

557
00:30:13,040 --> 00:30:17,200
Speaker 1: tricks you could could you could utilize to up your elimination,

558
00:30:17,400 --> 00:30:20,480
Speaker 1: but you were limited. Uh and yeah, it's it was

559
00:30:20,520 --> 00:30:21,320
Speaker 1: a different world.

560
00:30:21,800 --> 00:30:23,680
Speaker 3: And specifically, one of the things I want to come

561
00:30:23,720 --> 00:30:26,760
Speaker 3: back to in part two is ways that that limitation

562
00:30:27,080 --> 00:30:30,400
Speaker 3: could actually be create a kind of freedom or open

563
00:30:30,440 --> 00:30:34,360
Speaker 3: opportunities for other things that that are not as a

564
00:30:34,480 --> 00:30:37,000
Speaker 3: parent if you're just in a daylight type of light

565
00:30:37,160 --> 00:30:40,160
Speaker 3: or in a very bright electrical lighting scenario.

566
00:30:40,640 --> 00:30:44,120
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, in addition to like the obvious, like it's dark,

567
00:30:44,160 --> 00:30:47,719
Speaker 1: maybe we should go to sleep. Yeah, it's sometimes a

568
00:30:47,880 --> 00:30:51,080
Speaker 1: kind of a revelation to modern humans. It's like it

569
00:30:51,160 --> 00:30:55,040
Speaker 1: is nighttime, I could sleep, I could turn all of

570
00:30:55,080 --> 00:30:58,960
Speaker 1: this off, and we often don't do that. Yeah.

571
00:30:59,040 --> 00:31:01,360
Speaker 3: I was about to be like, stop staring at your

572
00:31:01,360 --> 00:31:03,120
Speaker 3: phone right before bed, which I do.

573
00:31:03,800 --> 00:31:06,720
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's really hard to shake. It's our little heart

574
00:31:06,840 --> 00:31:08,880
Speaker 1: we bring to bed with us, our little fireplace.

575
00:31:09,160 --> 00:31:11,960
Speaker 3: Yeah, all right, well, so from here for the rest

576
00:31:11,960 --> 00:31:15,960
Speaker 3: of today's episode, I wanted to talk briefly about how

577
00:31:16,000 --> 00:31:19,120
Speaker 3: fireplaces are normally constructed, how they normally work in the

578
00:31:19,120 --> 00:31:22,360
Speaker 3: modern sense, and then Rob, I know you had some

579
00:31:22,360 --> 00:31:25,600
Speaker 3: stuff you wanted to get into about fireplaces as kind

580
00:31:25,600 --> 00:31:29,880
Speaker 3: of magical portals. But okay. So one of the things

581
00:31:29,920 --> 00:31:32,920
Speaker 3: is that obviously, once humans started to build houses, to

582
00:31:32,960 --> 00:31:35,840
Speaker 3: build enclosures to live inside, it can be easy to

583
00:31:35,840 --> 00:31:37,880
Speaker 3: see why you would want to have the heat and

584
00:31:38,000 --> 00:31:40,760
Speaker 3: light benefits of a fire inside the protection of the

585
00:31:40,840 --> 00:31:44,480
Speaker 3: dwelling and not just outside. But this actually is not

586
00:31:44,560 --> 00:31:47,520
Speaker 3: as easy as it sounds. You're presented with several concerns.

587
00:31:47,640 --> 00:31:50,120
Speaker 3: One is, how do you keep the fire from burning

588
00:31:50,200 --> 00:31:52,920
Speaker 3: down the house. To do so, you would need to

589
00:31:53,000 --> 00:31:57,400
Speaker 3: build the fireplace kind of away from any flammable walls

590
00:31:57,520 --> 00:32:00,720
Speaker 3: or furniture, or if it is touching walls, you would

591
00:32:00,800 --> 00:32:05,080
Speaker 3: need a fireplace system built into non flammable infrastructure made

592
00:32:05,080 --> 00:32:09,240
Speaker 3: out of something like stone, brick, clay, or metal. Other

593
00:32:09,280 --> 00:32:11,680
Speaker 3: big thing this is huge, how do you keep the

594
00:32:11,760 --> 00:32:14,960
Speaker 3: fire from filling your house? Up with smoke. You need

595
00:32:15,000 --> 00:32:17,560
Speaker 3: to have some kind of channel through which smoke and

596
00:32:17,640 --> 00:32:22,440
Speaker 3: hot gases can escape the building. Modern fireplaces are equipped

597
00:32:22,440 --> 00:32:25,200
Speaker 3: with dedicated flues and chimneys, as we'll talk about in

598
00:32:25,200 --> 00:32:29,280
Speaker 3: a second. But as we see, many early indoor fireplaces

599
00:32:29,360 --> 00:32:33,760
Speaker 3: had more had cruder ventilation systems, often consisting of simply

600
00:32:33,800 --> 00:32:36,760
Speaker 3: a hole in the roof directly above the fire. And

601
00:32:36,840 --> 00:32:39,760
Speaker 3: this would work to a degree, but it also meant that, yeah,

602
00:32:39,800 --> 00:32:42,360
Speaker 3: for like thousands of years, a lot of buildings that

603
00:32:42,560 --> 00:32:46,000
Speaker 3: housed indoor fires were just going to be pretty smoky inside.

604
00:32:46,320 --> 00:32:50,160
Speaker 1: I definitely got a taste of some of that at St. Fagan's. Yeah.

605
00:32:50,960 --> 00:32:56,200
Speaker 3: Now, basic modern fireplace and chimney design goes roughly like this.

606
00:32:56,360 --> 00:32:58,720
Speaker 3: Usually you've got the fire box. This is where the

607
00:32:58,760 --> 00:33:02,360
Speaker 3: fire goes, built on top of what's called a hearth.

608
00:33:02,520 --> 00:33:04,680
Speaker 3: This is the more specialized use of the word hearth.

609
00:33:05,120 --> 00:33:07,680
Speaker 3: This is the base of the fireplace that is made

610
00:33:07,680 --> 00:33:12,200
Speaker 3: out of some kind of fireproof material, often bricks or stones.

611
00:33:13,120 --> 00:33:16,160
Speaker 3: And this material, of course is meant to absorb heat

612
00:33:16,240 --> 00:33:19,200
Speaker 3: from the fire and then heat the room that it's

613
00:33:19,200 --> 00:33:23,400
Speaker 3: in by radiating that heat back out into the air. Now,

614
00:33:23,440 --> 00:33:26,920
Speaker 3: above the firebox You often have like a decorative shelf

615
00:33:27,000 --> 00:33:29,040
Speaker 3: called a mantle, but that's not really part of the

616
00:33:29,080 --> 00:33:32,600
Speaker 3: mechanics of the fireplace. That's just a common decorative feature.

617
00:33:33,040 --> 00:33:36,040
Speaker 3: The channel above the firebox leading to the outside is

618
00:33:36,040 --> 00:33:38,960
Speaker 3: what's called the flu, and then the flu is surrounded

619
00:33:38,960 --> 00:33:41,760
Speaker 3: by the structure that we call the chimney. A lot

620
00:33:41,760 --> 00:33:45,600
Speaker 3: of times the flu is slightly offset from the firebox,

621
00:33:45,640 --> 00:33:48,840
Speaker 3: so it's not just a pipe straight up. Instead, it'll

622
00:33:48,840 --> 00:33:50,880
Speaker 3: be kind of set off to the side or behind,

623
00:33:51,360 --> 00:33:53,920
Speaker 3: and it will be the FLU will be positioned directly

624
00:33:53,960 --> 00:33:57,280
Speaker 3: above something that is called the smoke shelf, where soot

625
00:33:57,680 --> 00:34:00,600
Speaker 3: or anything that happens to penetrate the flu opening on

626
00:34:00,720 --> 00:34:04,120
Speaker 3: top of the roof, anything comes in from outdoors can

627
00:34:04,280 --> 00:34:07,120
Speaker 3: fall without landing directly on the fire. Instead, it falls

628
00:34:07,160 --> 00:34:10,759
Speaker 3: onto this shelf. Often also there is a damper which

629
00:34:10,760 --> 00:34:13,440
Speaker 3: allows you to close off the flu when there's no

630
00:34:13,560 --> 00:34:16,920
Speaker 3: fire burning to stop cold air from coming down in

631
00:34:16,960 --> 00:34:20,280
Speaker 3: the chimney. Very important to remember to open the damper

632
00:34:20,320 --> 00:34:21,600
Speaker 3: before lighting a new fire.

633
00:34:22,160 --> 00:34:24,160
Speaker 1: This is especially true. Yeah, if you're staying in a

634
00:34:24,160 --> 00:34:27,839
Speaker 1: cabin or something it's not your home, maybe back at

635
00:34:27,840 --> 00:34:29,920
Speaker 1: your own house, you're not used to using a fireplace.

636
00:34:30,239 --> 00:34:32,200
Speaker 1: It is an absolutely necessary step.

637
00:34:32,680 --> 00:34:34,880
Speaker 3: Now, we all know that a fire needs fuel and

638
00:34:34,960 --> 00:34:37,400
Speaker 3: heat to burn, but it's also important to remember that

639
00:34:37,480 --> 00:34:41,520
Speaker 3: it needs oxygen. So airflow is important in determining how

640
00:34:41,600 --> 00:34:45,759
Speaker 3: a fire burns and also in determining what effect a

641
00:34:45,800 --> 00:34:49,600
Speaker 3: fire has on the house and its occupants. The majority

642
00:34:49,680 --> 00:34:53,680
Speaker 3: of the interior heat provided by a fireplace is radiant heat.

643
00:34:53,800 --> 00:34:57,800
Speaker 3: It's the infrared radiation coming off of the fire itself

644
00:34:58,160 --> 00:35:01,959
Speaker 3: and then also coming off of the heated parts of

645
00:35:02,040 --> 00:35:05,040
Speaker 3: the hearth or whatever is enclosing the fire, so coming

646
00:35:05,080 --> 00:35:08,240
Speaker 3: off of the heated bricks or stones, or the metal.

647
00:35:08,280 --> 00:35:10,399
Speaker 3: If it's more of a stove design, I'll talk about

648
00:35:10,440 --> 00:35:13,440
Speaker 3: that in a second. But there is an irony to

649
00:35:13,600 --> 00:35:18,120
Speaker 3: this beloved fixture of the fireplace. Way back in the

650
00:35:18,160 --> 00:35:23,040
Speaker 3: eighteenth century, Benjamin Franklin wrote about how inefficient fireplaces were

651
00:35:23,200 --> 00:35:27,279
Speaker 3: actually were at heating indoor spaces, just huge amounts of

652
00:35:27,280 --> 00:35:31,719
Speaker 3: wasted energy. He noted that the majority of the convective

653
00:35:31,719 --> 00:35:34,480
Speaker 3: heat that they produce just rushes straight up the flu

654
00:35:34,680 --> 00:35:37,640
Speaker 3: and is lost to the outside air. And this is

655
00:35:37,680 --> 00:35:40,880
Speaker 3: often true, though it can vary depending on particulars of

656
00:35:40,920 --> 00:35:45,040
Speaker 3: the fireplace design. In fact, here's a weird thing. A

657
00:35:45,040 --> 00:35:47,759
Speaker 3: lot of people might not know. A fire in the

658
00:35:47,760 --> 00:35:54,080
Speaker 3: fireplace can actually make your house colder overall. So this

659
00:35:54,400 --> 00:35:57,200
Speaker 3: again depends on particulars, depends on the design of the

660
00:35:57,200 --> 00:36:01,400
Speaker 3: fireplace and the chimney, particularly how the vinylation system is configured.

661
00:36:01,800 --> 00:36:03,960
Speaker 3: But in a lot of cases, you build a fire

662
00:36:03,960 --> 00:36:07,400
Speaker 3: in the fireplace and it will increase the temperature in

663
00:36:07,480 --> 00:36:10,959
Speaker 3: the area directly around the fire, you know, mostly again

664
00:36:11,000 --> 00:36:13,319
Speaker 3: by way of radiant heat coming off the fire and

665
00:36:13,360 --> 00:36:15,640
Speaker 3: the heated stone or brick or metal of the hearth.

666
00:36:16,239 --> 00:36:19,759
Speaker 3: But meanwhile that fire is sucking in air from the

667
00:36:19,800 --> 00:36:23,160
Speaker 3: inside of your house, relatively warm air, probably if it's

668
00:36:23,200 --> 00:36:25,880
Speaker 3: winter time and you have the heat going, or just

669
00:36:25,960 --> 00:36:28,799
Speaker 3: you know, there's warm stuff happening inside the house and

670
00:36:28,840 --> 00:36:32,359
Speaker 3: so it's warmer than the air outside. So this air

671
00:36:32,600 --> 00:36:35,080
Speaker 3: from the rest of the house is being sucked into

672
00:36:35,080 --> 00:36:38,480
Speaker 3: the fireplace to feed the fire, and then the convection

673
00:36:38,800 --> 00:36:41,759
Speaker 3: of the hot gas plume rising up through the flu

674
00:36:42,160 --> 00:36:46,239
Speaker 3: is driving it outside as it gets superheated. As hot

675
00:36:46,320 --> 00:36:49,040
Speaker 3: gas and smoke rushes up the chimney, a vacuum is

676
00:36:49,080 --> 00:36:51,920
Speaker 3: created and more air continues to flow in from the

677
00:36:51,920 --> 00:36:56,080
Speaker 3: inside of your house to the fireplace system, and thus

678
00:36:56,080 --> 00:36:58,200
Speaker 3: a vacuum is created in the rest of the house,

679
00:36:58,480 --> 00:37:02,080
Speaker 3: and then cold air is in from outside through whatever

680
00:37:02,120 --> 00:37:04,799
Speaker 3: cracks your house has, cracks in the doors and windows

681
00:37:04,840 --> 00:37:08,359
Speaker 3: and so forth. So plenty of tests have shown that

682
00:37:08,440 --> 00:37:12,000
Speaker 3: an inefficient fireplace may feel warm to the room right

683
00:37:12,040 --> 00:37:14,839
Speaker 3: there in front of the blaze, but actually freezes out

684
00:37:14,880 --> 00:37:17,480
Speaker 3: the rest of the house. They even did an episode

685
00:37:17,480 --> 00:37:20,399
Speaker 3: of MythBusters where they featured this one time. I haven't

686
00:37:20,440 --> 00:37:22,640
Speaker 3: seen this, but I read about it, and I read

687
00:37:22,640 --> 00:37:26,000
Speaker 3: that in their particular test rooms farther away in the

688
00:37:26,040 --> 00:37:28,680
Speaker 3: house got a couple of degrees celsius colder.

689
00:37:29,200 --> 00:37:31,040
Speaker 1: This is fascinating, and it makes me think back on

690
00:37:31,080 --> 00:37:33,440
Speaker 1: times I've been in houses where there is a fireplace,

691
00:37:33,960 --> 00:37:35,880
Speaker 1: and I'll, I mean, I will often find myself in

692
00:37:35,880 --> 00:37:38,040
Speaker 1: this situation where it's like I'm somewhere else in the house,

693
00:37:38,360 --> 00:37:40,040
Speaker 1: start feeling kind of chilly. Then I have to go

694
00:37:40,160 --> 00:37:42,520
Speaker 1: like right next to the fireplace to warm up, and

695
00:37:42,560 --> 00:37:46,600
Speaker 1: this pattern kind of continues. Yeah, and now I'm realizing

696
00:37:46,840 --> 00:37:49,600
Speaker 1: it could be in part due to the presence of

697
00:37:49,640 --> 00:37:54,360
Speaker 1: the fireplace to begin with, this inequality of temperature.

698
00:37:54,840 --> 00:37:57,840
Speaker 3: Now, there are ways to improve the heating efficiency of

699
00:37:57,840 --> 00:38:00,520
Speaker 3: a wood fire a one is to replace it with

700
00:38:00,680 --> 00:38:03,160
Speaker 3: a wood is to replace your open fireplace with a

701
00:38:03,200 --> 00:38:07,160
Speaker 3: wood stove. So this would be a fireplace completely enclosed

702
00:38:07,200 --> 00:38:10,200
Speaker 3: in a metal box, which uses air more efficiently. It

703
00:38:10,320 --> 00:38:13,520
Speaker 3: sucks less cold air into your house, and also it

704
00:38:13,719 --> 00:38:17,160
Speaker 3: radiates heat into the house more efficiently, like the metal

705
00:38:17,239 --> 00:38:20,960
Speaker 3: can radiate in all directions. You might notice a traditional

706
00:38:21,000 --> 00:38:23,640
Speaker 3: stone or brick fireplace is usually built into a wall,

707
00:38:24,080 --> 00:38:27,200
Speaker 3: whereas a wood stove is more often closer to the

708
00:38:27,200 --> 00:38:29,719
Speaker 3: middle of the room and can radiate in all directions.

709
00:38:30,320 --> 00:38:32,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, my late father in law was really into like

710
00:38:32,800 --> 00:38:37,719
Speaker 1: passive solar and design and houses and you know, not

711
00:38:37,840 --> 00:38:39,719
Speaker 1: quite like living off the grid kind of stuff, but

712
00:38:39,800 --> 00:38:41,399
Speaker 1: like all the things you could do with a house

713
00:38:41,440 --> 00:38:44,520
Speaker 1: to sort of like limit the need for electricity and

714
00:38:44,520 --> 00:38:47,759
Speaker 1: so forth, and like that was a Keith aspect of

715
00:38:47,800 --> 00:38:51,600
Speaker 1: his home design was having that wood stove. And yeah,

716
00:38:51,800 --> 00:38:53,839
Speaker 1: it's not stuck in the wall, it's like out there

717
00:38:54,160 --> 00:38:55,440
Speaker 1: basically in the center of the house.

718
00:38:55,880 --> 00:38:58,000
Speaker 3: And we might talk more about this in part too.

719
00:38:58,040 --> 00:39:01,279
Speaker 3: But there are also designs that improve the heating efficiency

720
00:39:01,320 --> 00:39:05,560
Speaker 3: because they don't draw air from the interior of the house. Instead,

721
00:39:05,600 --> 00:39:08,800
Speaker 3: they've got like an external intake vent of some kind

722
00:39:09,239 --> 00:39:12,040
Speaker 3: feeding a fire that heats a structure made of again

723
00:39:12,120 --> 00:39:15,520
Speaker 3: a fireproof material like brickstone or metal or tile, and

724
00:39:15,560 --> 00:39:19,360
Speaker 3: then that radiates heat into the building, but the airflow

725
00:39:19,360 --> 00:39:22,520
Speaker 3: system just doesn't really connect to the inside of the house.

726
00:39:22,600 --> 00:39:25,160
Speaker 3: That also is a way of improving the heating efficiency.

727
00:39:26,080 --> 00:39:29,319
Speaker 3: Though there's an interesting sort of a converse implication here

728
00:39:29,320 --> 00:39:31,640
Speaker 3: which I discovered. Shout out one of my sources on

729
00:39:31,680 --> 00:39:34,880
Speaker 3: fireplaces and how they generally work here was how stuff

730
00:39:34,920 --> 00:39:38,640
Speaker 3: Works article our old employer. This one was by John Kelly,

731
00:39:38,760 --> 00:39:43,200
Speaker 3: so a nice job, John, But basically the idea here

732
00:39:43,320 --> 00:39:45,600
Speaker 3: is that if you notice you're building a fire and

733
00:39:45,640 --> 00:39:48,160
Speaker 3: it's like having a hard time burning and the damper

734
00:39:48,239 --> 00:39:50,600
Speaker 3: is open, and yet there's still a lot of smoke

735
00:39:50,719 --> 00:39:53,920
Speaker 3: coming into the house, a problem could be that the

736
00:39:54,000 --> 00:39:56,759
Speaker 3: house is too well sealed, like the doors and the

737
00:39:56,760 --> 00:39:59,000
Speaker 3: windows are too well sealed, and the fire is not

738
00:39:59,239 --> 00:40:02,520
Speaker 3: able to create this efficient river of air from the

739
00:40:02,560 --> 00:40:06,120
Speaker 3: outside into the house into the fireplace, up the flu

740
00:40:06,200 --> 00:40:09,680
Speaker 3: and then back outside. So instead it's pulling some air

741
00:40:09,800 --> 00:40:12,799
Speaker 3: down the flu which is causing a counter draft and

742
00:40:12,840 --> 00:40:16,160
Speaker 3: sending smoke into the room. So if you are having

743
00:40:16,200 --> 00:40:19,120
Speaker 3: this problem, one thing to try is like opening a window,

744
00:40:19,440 --> 00:40:21,359
Speaker 3: though of course that's going to let a bunch of

745
00:40:21,360 --> 00:40:23,720
Speaker 3: cold air in, so that may just be the price.

746
00:40:24,280 --> 00:40:26,920
Speaker 1: Wow, I had never thought about that, huh.

747
00:40:26,920 --> 00:40:30,799
Speaker 3: But anyway, I'm just thinking about the implications of a

748
00:40:30,880 --> 00:40:34,719
Speaker 3: fireplace often making the rest of the house colder, even

749
00:40:34,719 --> 00:40:37,879
Speaker 3: while it makes one or two rooms much warmer. And

750
00:40:38,719 --> 00:40:42,399
Speaker 3: this made me think about an unintended secondary effect of

751
00:40:42,560 --> 00:40:46,960
Speaker 3: wood fire heating being the tendency to cause people to gather.

752
00:40:47,440 --> 00:40:50,239
Speaker 1: Yeah, this is a great point. Yeah, drawing people to

753
00:40:50,600 --> 00:40:54,400
Speaker 1: the hearth, to the fire, drawing them together, and thus

754
00:40:55,880 --> 00:40:58,880
Speaker 1: and thus becoming like a center of the family of

755
00:40:59,800 --> 00:41:03,080
Speaker 1: social interaction, storytelling and so forth.

756
00:41:03,320 --> 00:41:06,719
Speaker 3: Yeah, there's like a sort of unstated little punishment for

757
00:41:06,800 --> 00:41:09,920
Speaker 3: being off by yourself. It's just gonna make your room colder.

758
00:41:10,280 --> 00:41:24,759
Speaker 1: Yeah, now you know it is. It is Christmas time,

759
00:41:24,880 --> 00:41:30,000
Speaker 1: and so a lot of folks are engaging in different

760
00:41:30,120 --> 00:41:35,399
Speaker 1: fireplace related traditions, the hanging of stockings and so forth.

761
00:41:35,480 --> 00:41:37,640
Speaker 1: And what do you traditionally hang your stockings? Why you

762
00:41:37,640 --> 00:41:41,239
Speaker 1: hang them by the hearth. You hang them above the fireplace.

763
00:41:42,000 --> 00:41:43,719
Speaker 1: And of course we have tales of Santa Claus, or

764
00:41:43,760 --> 00:41:48,600
Speaker 1: perhaps they masquerading grinch entering your home by crawling down

765
00:41:48,680 --> 00:41:53,800
Speaker 1: your chimney and climbing in through the fireplace. This is

766
00:41:54,000 --> 00:41:55,920
Speaker 1: this is one of those I think examples of the

767
00:41:55,960 --> 00:42:00,560
Speaker 1: fireplace as a portal, fireplace as a as a gate

768
00:42:00,760 --> 00:42:04,000
Speaker 1: through which something may travel that it's almost too close

769
00:42:04,040 --> 00:42:06,160
Speaker 1: to us. You know, we grow up with this tradition,

770
00:42:06,280 --> 00:42:09,360
Speaker 1: we're told it from an early age. We're familiar with

771
00:42:09,360 --> 00:42:13,400
Speaker 1: this story before. We're familiar with many of the foundation

772
00:42:13,640 --> 00:42:18,600
Speaker 1: stories of our own religions, you know, and important cultural

773
00:42:18,680 --> 00:42:22,279
Speaker 1: other important cultural tales, arguably more important cultural tales. We

774
00:42:22,360 --> 00:42:25,880
Speaker 1: have this story of a strange old man who climbs

775
00:42:26,040 --> 00:42:29,279
Speaker 1: through the fireplace, again, almost too close for us to

776
00:42:29,320 --> 00:42:31,440
Speaker 1: even think about it. We'll come back to that in

777
00:42:31,480 --> 00:42:34,359
Speaker 1: a second. But another way, of course, that and this

778
00:42:34,400 --> 00:42:36,799
Speaker 1: is one that may resonate more with fireplace owners, people

779
00:42:36,800 --> 00:42:41,800
Speaker 1: who actually have hearts in their home, is the reality that, okay,

780
00:42:41,840 --> 00:42:46,600
Speaker 1: as a literal aperture to the outside of your home,

781
00:42:47,000 --> 00:42:49,760
Speaker 1: it is possible for animals to climb down that chimney

782
00:42:50,280 --> 00:42:54,680
Speaker 1: and potentially enter your home. They may be prevented full

783
00:42:54,800 --> 00:42:59,719
Speaker 1: access to the home by bats, raccoons, mice various squirrels

784
00:42:59,719 --> 00:43:03,759
Speaker 1: are some of the examples of potential chimney splunkers. I

785
00:43:03,760 --> 00:43:07,000
Speaker 1: know I've encountered bats in this manner before at a

786
00:43:07,000 --> 00:43:09,799
Speaker 1: friend's house, where like a bat or two would come

787
00:43:09,800 --> 00:43:12,400
Speaker 1: into the chimney, get trapped in the house, and then

788
00:43:12,440 --> 00:43:14,680
Speaker 1: you would find them, often in the sink trying to

789
00:43:14,680 --> 00:43:18,279
Speaker 1: get water. WHOA, yeah, I came to this house like

790
00:43:18,320 --> 00:43:19,839
Speaker 1: some it was, you know, it's like a vacation home

791
00:43:19,920 --> 00:43:21,360
Speaker 1: or something, so nobody had been in it for a

792
00:43:21,360 --> 00:43:23,920
Speaker 1: little bit, and I saw something in the sink and

793
00:43:23,960 --> 00:43:26,200
Speaker 1: I'm like, oh, someone left a tea bag and I

794
00:43:26,280 --> 00:43:29,359
Speaker 1: almost grabbed it throw it away, and then I, oh,

795
00:43:29,480 --> 00:43:32,520
Speaker 1: that's a bat. And then I had to call my

796
00:43:32,560 --> 00:43:38,000
Speaker 1: friend and be like, what's your bat protocol? The bat

797
00:43:38,040 --> 00:43:39,280
Speaker 1: was fine, thiss.

798
00:43:39,120 --> 00:43:41,759
Speaker 3: Never even occurred to me. I cannot relate. That's but

799
00:43:41,800 --> 00:43:42,640
Speaker 3: that's incredible.

800
00:43:43,760 --> 00:43:46,720
Speaker 1: Now. This idea, though, of a chimney is a portal

801
00:43:46,760 --> 00:43:50,720
Speaker 1: through which other worldly powers may traverse, such as Santa Claus.

802
00:43:51,400 --> 00:43:55,320
Speaker 1: This is a pretty deeply seated concept, certainly in European traditions,

803
00:43:55,760 --> 00:44:00,279
Speaker 1: but you can also see examples of similar ideas from

804
00:44:00,560 --> 00:44:04,640
Speaker 1: pretty far flung traditions. Seemingly to connect with the various

805
00:44:04,760 --> 00:44:09,960
Speaker 1: supernatural concepts you might encounter about the home, about fire, technology,

806
00:44:10,160 --> 00:44:13,520
Speaker 1: about cooking, and just the nature of the flame itself.

807
00:44:14,160 --> 00:44:17,280
Speaker 1: For instance, Carol Rose, in her Encyclopedia of Giants, Monsters,

808
00:44:17,280 --> 00:44:20,680
Speaker 1: and Dragons that I frequently cite, mentions a tradition of

809
00:44:20,719 --> 00:44:26,719
Speaker 1: the clean Get peoples of Northwestern United States the tell

810
00:44:26,960 --> 00:44:33,320
Speaker 1: of Heya Kannako, the old woman underneath us, an enormous

811
00:44:33,320 --> 00:44:37,880
Speaker 1: protective deity of the earth who concentrates on supporting the world,

812
00:44:38,000 --> 00:44:41,240
Speaker 1: almost in a similar sense to Atlas, you know, holding

813
00:44:41,320 --> 00:44:44,040
Speaker 1: up the earth. But when her hunger gets the better

814
00:44:44,080 --> 00:44:49,200
Speaker 1: off her, her concentration falters and earthquakes ensue. And so

815
00:44:50,040 --> 00:44:54,239
Speaker 1: humans occasionally throw bits of fat into their hearths, and

816
00:44:54,320 --> 00:45:00,239
Speaker 1: the Carol Rose describes it in order to help or

817
00:45:00,280 --> 00:45:04,799
Speaker 1: overcome her hunger and to concentrate on keeping the earth imbalance.

818
00:45:06,080 --> 00:45:09,200
Speaker 1: So you know, it's not something crawling through the fire

819
00:45:09,760 --> 00:45:12,680
Speaker 1: through the hearth, but it's this idea of the hearth

820
00:45:12,800 --> 00:45:17,520
Speaker 1: is kind of this connection in almost a physical connection

821
00:45:17,640 --> 00:45:20,080
Speaker 1: to some sort of supernatural force.

822
00:45:20,600 --> 00:45:23,360
Speaker 3: Yeah. I think the general use of fire for burnt

823
00:45:23,400 --> 00:45:26,400
Speaker 3: offering or sacrifice indicates a way of thinking of the

824
00:45:26,440 --> 00:45:30,400
Speaker 3: fire as a kind of interface point between our world

825
00:45:30,400 --> 00:45:34,279
Speaker 3: and the other world, that you can burn something to

826
00:45:34,360 --> 00:45:36,800
Speaker 3: kind of send it through a portal to the gods.

827
00:45:37,520 --> 00:45:39,239
Speaker 1: Yeah, and what I like about this one, though, is

828
00:45:39,280 --> 00:45:43,319
Speaker 1: the idea that it's not a special fire created for

829
00:45:43,480 --> 00:45:46,880
Speaker 1: a special ritual purpose. It's more like the everyday fire.

830
00:45:47,239 --> 00:45:50,920
Speaker 1: But even the everyday fire has the potential to be

831
00:45:51,120 --> 00:45:54,520
Speaker 1: this gateway. And you know, again, it makes sense when

832
00:45:54,560 --> 00:45:57,080
Speaker 1: you think about all the convergence of activities and energies

833
00:45:57,120 --> 00:46:02,480
Speaker 1: at the hearth, the warmth, the illumination, food preparation, social gathering.

834
00:46:02,520 --> 00:46:05,600
Speaker 1: You know, perhaps due to the fact that it's in

835
00:46:05,640 --> 00:46:07,680
Speaker 1: a home situation that the rest of the home is cold,

836
00:46:08,000 --> 00:46:12,959
Speaker 1: and drawing people together to tell stories, tell jokes, share

837
00:46:13,000 --> 00:46:16,319
Speaker 1: their experiences. And on top of that, it is an

838
00:46:16,360 --> 00:46:20,520
Speaker 1: obvious aperture to the outside world, which certainly brings about

839
00:46:20,560 --> 00:46:24,680
Speaker 1: the possibility of various natural world creatures gaining access to

840
00:46:24,719 --> 00:46:28,560
Speaker 1: your abode. But let us also remember that we're also

841
00:46:28,600 --> 00:46:31,319
Speaker 1: talking about a gateway through which air can pass and

842
00:46:31,400 --> 00:46:34,960
Speaker 1: does pass. And as most of human history is pre

843
00:46:35,080 --> 00:46:37,720
Speaker 1: germ theory, I think you can see where this is going.

844
00:46:37,800 --> 00:46:40,959
Speaker 1: The idea that this is also an aperture through which

845
00:46:41,120 --> 00:46:44,680
Speaker 1: bad air could travel, or something in the air, something

846
00:46:44,719 --> 00:46:50,160
Speaker 1: that is not as constricted as physical as physical beings

847
00:46:50,160 --> 00:46:52,920
Speaker 1: are constricted. That they could pass through that small hole.

848
00:46:52,960 --> 00:46:55,400
Speaker 1: They could essentially, you know, pass through the keyhole and

849
00:46:55,440 --> 00:46:59,560
Speaker 1: that's all the space they need. Interesting, it reminds me

850
00:46:59,600 --> 00:47:02,480
Speaker 1: actually of a tradition we talked about an idea of

851
00:47:02,680 --> 00:47:06,960
Speaker 1: the Dine or Navajo people. This came up in a

852
00:47:06,960 --> 00:47:09,760
Speaker 1: couple of episodes, I think in Our Dust episodes, actually,

853
00:47:10,560 --> 00:47:14,480
Speaker 1: the idea that you might have an adante, a practitioner

854
00:47:14,480 --> 00:47:19,160
Speaker 1: of secret evil magic, who might introduce a magical poison

855
00:47:19,239 --> 00:47:24,120
Speaker 1: or illness into a home through its smoke hole. So

856
00:47:24,200 --> 00:47:27,960
Speaker 1: that definitely came to mind here, the smoke hole in

857
00:47:28,000 --> 00:47:30,759
Speaker 1: a traditional home, this could be an aperture that could

858
00:47:30,760 --> 00:47:35,600
Speaker 1: be exploited by an evil doer, and in European traditions,

859
00:47:35,680 --> 00:47:39,320
Speaker 1: spilling over into early American colonial traditions, this concept carried

860
00:47:39,320 --> 00:47:42,960
Speaker 1: a great deal of weight, something that previous guest on

861
00:47:43,080 --> 00:47:46,400
Speaker 1: Stuff to Blow your Mind Brian Hoggard discusses in his

862
00:47:46,440 --> 00:47:51,000
Speaker 1: excellent twenty nineteen book Magical House Protection The Archaeology of

863
00:47:51,080 --> 00:47:55,160
Speaker 1: counter Witchcraft. I know some of you probably listened to

864
00:47:55,239 --> 00:47:57,440
Speaker 1: that episode. It's a great one if you want to

865
00:47:57,480 --> 00:48:00,320
Speaker 1: go back and listen to an interview with the author.

866
00:48:00,600 --> 00:48:02,799
Speaker 1: But I'm going to discuss some of the ideas that

867
00:48:02,840 --> 00:48:04,800
Speaker 1: he brought up in that book here as it relates

868
00:48:04,840 --> 00:48:07,960
Speaker 1: to this topic. So in the book, Hoggard discusses the

869
00:48:08,040 --> 00:48:12,640
Speaker 1: various counter witchcraft rights and rituals that Europeans use, dating

870
00:48:12,680 --> 00:48:18,000
Speaker 1: back at least to the Middle Ages, functioning alongside and generally,

871
00:48:18,040 --> 00:48:22,240
Speaker 1: I guess in spite of protections offered by the Christian

872
00:48:22,280 --> 00:48:25,640
Speaker 1: faith and Christian tradition. This is coming from the show before.

873
00:48:25,680 --> 00:48:31,480
Speaker 1: You know, you have the various church approved methods that

874
00:48:31,560 --> 00:48:35,680
Speaker 1: you might take against supernatural evil, but are you going

875
00:48:35,719 --> 00:48:37,719
Speaker 1: to limit yourself to just those or are you going

876
00:48:37,800 --> 00:48:41,799
Speaker 1: to also set other traps and wards in place? But

877
00:48:42,400 --> 00:48:48,399
Speaker 1: in this case, we're talking about supernatural superstitious folk protections

878
00:48:48,840 --> 00:48:53,080
Speaker 1: that were clearly deemed absolutely necessary by many to combat

879
00:48:53,200 --> 00:48:57,359
Speaker 1: evil in a demon haunted world. Hoggard stresses that the

880
00:48:57,440 --> 00:49:00,920
Speaker 1: archaeological evidence suggests that unseen supernaw natural threats, which just

881
00:49:00,920 --> 00:49:05,160
Speaker 1: a standard part of everyday existence, supernatural evil was everywhere

882
00:49:05,520 --> 00:49:07,640
Speaker 1: and you had to bust out all the tricks in

883
00:49:07,760 --> 00:49:11,120
Speaker 1: order to if not completely protect yourself, then at least

884
00:49:11,160 --> 00:49:14,640
Speaker 1: been the odds even slightly in your favor, and is

885
00:49:14,680 --> 00:49:17,680
Speaker 1: explored in the book. These efforts often took the form

886
00:49:17,760 --> 00:49:21,400
Speaker 1: of a ritual object or objects hidden in the home.

887
00:49:23,080 --> 00:49:26,560
Speaker 1: He writes the most popular locations to conceal objects within

888
00:49:26,640 --> 00:49:31,080
Speaker 1: buildings are usually at portals such as the hearth, the threshold,

889
00:49:31,360 --> 00:49:35,400
Speaker 1: and also voids or dead spaces. This suggests that people

890
00:49:35,400 --> 00:49:38,359
Speaker 1: believed it was possible for dark forces to travel through

891
00:49:38,360 --> 00:49:41,759
Speaker 1: the landscape and attack them in their homes. Whether these

892
00:49:41,800 --> 00:49:44,400
Speaker 1: forces were emanations from a witch in the form of

893
00:49:44,440 --> 00:49:47,920
Speaker 1: a spell, a witch is familiar pestering their property, an

894
00:49:47,920 --> 00:49:51,000
Speaker 1: actual witch flying in spirit, or a combination of all

895
00:49:51,040 --> 00:49:54,040
Speaker 1: of those is difficult to tell. Additional sources of danger

896
00:49:54,080 --> 00:49:57,399
Speaker 1: could be ghosts, fairies, and demons. People went to great

897
00:49:57,480 --> 00:50:00,759
Speaker 1: lengths to ensure their homes and property were protected, highlighting

898
00:50:00,760 --> 00:50:03,520
Speaker 1: the fact that these beliefs and fears were visceral and

899
00:50:03,600 --> 00:50:06,719
Speaker 1: as far as they were concerned, literally terrifying.

900
00:50:07,640 --> 00:50:12,760
Speaker 3: Interesting yet again, the way that some physical intuitions apply

901
00:50:12,920 --> 00:50:16,160
Speaker 3: to these apparently magical substances, like the spell of a

902
00:50:16,200 --> 00:50:18,799
Speaker 3: witch or a which is familiar, which you might well

903
00:50:18,840 --> 00:50:22,160
Speaker 3: assume could just you know, pass magically through any wall

904
00:50:22,320 --> 00:50:26,640
Speaker 3: or whatever. It seems people were especially concerned about voids

905
00:50:26,680 --> 00:50:29,840
Speaker 3: and portals, like the physical gaps that a physical being

906
00:50:29,840 --> 00:50:31,120
Speaker 3: would need to travel through.

907
00:50:31,880 --> 00:50:35,200
Speaker 1: I mean, I imagine a lot of you have had

908
00:50:35,200 --> 00:50:37,520
Speaker 1: this experience. I mean, to be clear, some of you

909
00:50:37,600 --> 00:50:40,440
Speaker 1: may have the experience of finding some of these secreted

910
00:50:41,480 --> 00:50:44,560
Speaker 1: and hidden items, and if so, do write in. We

911
00:50:44,560 --> 00:50:46,400
Speaker 1: would love to hear from you. But I find it

912
00:50:46,480 --> 00:50:48,799
Speaker 1: like a little strange when I encounter a void in

913
00:50:48,840 --> 00:50:51,120
Speaker 1: my house, when you realize, like, here is a space

914
00:50:51,160 --> 00:50:53,799
Speaker 1: within my home where there is nothing, you know, and

915
00:50:53,840 --> 00:50:56,880
Speaker 1: that's that I don't know. It shouldn't feel creepy, but

916
00:50:56,920 --> 00:50:57,319
Speaker 1: it does.

917
00:50:57,640 --> 00:51:03,000
Speaker 3: What's under the stairs nothing, there's nothing there.

918
00:51:12,800 --> 00:51:15,720
Speaker 1: Now, if you're not familiar with the details that HACKERD

919
00:51:15,800 --> 00:51:17,960
Speaker 1: gets into and the details that came up in that

920
00:51:18,120 --> 00:51:20,600
Speaker 1: interview I conducted a while back, you might be wondering, well,

921
00:51:20,600 --> 00:51:23,520
Speaker 1: what sort of ritual objects are we talking about hidden

922
00:51:23,560 --> 00:51:27,759
Speaker 1: away in homes and voids and so forth, potentially near

923
00:51:27,840 --> 00:51:31,919
Speaker 1: the hearth to afford protection against these many evils. Well,

924
00:51:32,120 --> 00:51:35,400
Speaker 1: there are various examples, but some of the main ones

925
00:51:35,440 --> 00:51:37,800
Speaker 1: are as follows. First of all, there's just protective marks.

926
00:51:37,840 --> 00:51:40,480
Speaker 1: And I feel like this is fairly self explanatory. You know,

927
00:51:40,520 --> 00:51:44,040
Speaker 1: some sort of a symbol or a sigil that has

928
00:51:44,080 --> 00:51:48,279
Speaker 1: protective properties and that may be hidden away somewhere in

929
00:51:48,320 --> 00:51:52,239
Speaker 1: a home. This next one, though, this one was the

930
00:51:52,280 --> 00:51:55,319
Speaker 1: one that I found surprising at the time I was

931
00:51:55,360 --> 00:51:57,920
Speaker 1: not familiar with prior to reading this book, and that

932
00:51:58,040 --> 00:52:01,480
Speaker 1: is shoes. And I think this is especially interesting because

933
00:52:01,520 --> 00:52:04,360
Speaker 1: from our modern perspective, we often forget just what a

934
00:52:04,480 --> 00:52:06,960
Speaker 1: shoe is. We can take it for granted, we can have,

935
00:52:07,120 --> 00:52:09,600
Speaker 1: you know, hundreds of them, and we may love shoes

936
00:52:09,640 --> 00:52:13,240
Speaker 1: to death without like, without really thinking about this vital

937
00:52:13,280 --> 00:52:15,799
Speaker 1: aspect of what they are. Yeah. Yes, we put them

938
00:52:15,800 --> 00:52:17,799
Speaker 1: on our feet to walk about in and you know,

939
00:52:17,880 --> 00:52:20,160
Speaker 1: not step on nails and rocks and so forth, keep

940
00:52:20,160 --> 00:52:23,480
Speaker 1: our feet warm, make our feet look you know, snazzy

941
00:52:23,520 --> 00:52:27,440
Speaker 1: and cool. But they are also flesh like sheaths, sometimes

942
00:52:27,480 --> 00:52:32,280
Speaker 1: made from animal products, that are sized, perhaps individually sized

943
00:52:32,560 --> 00:52:35,120
Speaker 1: for the shape of our feet or if nothing else.

944
00:52:35,160 --> 00:52:38,120
Speaker 1: Over time, they take on the shape of our feet.

945
00:52:38,160 --> 00:52:41,239
Speaker 1: They take on the odor of our feet. These are

946
00:52:41,280 --> 00:52:45,120
Speaker 1: two details, especially the odor that is often lost on us,

947
00:52:45,160 --> 00:52:48,200
Speaker 1: perhaps not lost on our dogs and cats. They know

948
00:52:48,320 --> 00:52:54,000
Speaker 1: these shoes smell like us and are like potent familiar

949
00:52:54,040 --> 00:52:57,680
Speaker 1: items of us. You know, our cat will lay on

950
00:52:57,719 --> 00:53:01,640
Speaker 1: shoes a lot, and I've had some commentary on this

951
00:53:01,760 --> 00:53:03,799
Speaker 1: kind of behavior in cats and dogs, where they will

952
00:53:03,840 --> 00:53:07,040
Speaker 1: be drawn to the shoes because they remind them of

953
00:53:07,440 --> 00:53:10,759
Speaker 1: the owners of said shoes. And all. This would seem

954
00:53:10,800 --> 00:53:13,239
Speaker 1: to be part of the superstitious calculus for these traditions.

955
00:53:13,280 --> 00:53:16,560
Speaker 1: So a shoe may wear out beyond repair in the

956
00:53:16,560 --> 00:53:19,560
Speaker 1: case of a child's shoes and shoes that they may

957
00:53:19,680 --> 00:53:23,279
Speaker 1: outgrow them, but they are still then objects that have

958
00:53:23,400 --> 00:53:26,200
Speaker 1: to a large extent become a part of us. You know,

959
00:53:26,239 --> 00:53:29,160
Speaker 1: they are shaped after us, they smell of us, and

960
00:53:29,400 --> 00:53:34,120
Speaker 1: they're therefore dangerous items to discard. In much the same

961
00:53:34,160 --> 00:53:37,120
Speaker 1: way that nail clippings and hair were often seen as such,

962
00:53:37,480 --> 00:53:40,080
Speaker 1: like they were a part of you. They still are

963
00:53:40,200 --> 00:53:43,000
Speaker 1: a part of you, and that is dangerous material to

964
00:53:43,120 --> 00:53:46,480
Speaker 1: just leave out in the world where you know an

965
00:53:46,520 --> 00:53:49,080
Speaker 1: evil doer or an evil spirit may come across it

966
00:53:49,120 --> 00:53:51,279
Speaker 1: and by doing so gain power over you.

967
00:53:52,120 --> 00:53:54,279
Speaker 3: This type of folk belief is sometimes referred to as

968
00:53:54,320 --> 00:53:58,200
Speaker 3: the law of contagion, that like things that were once

969
00:53:58,440 --> 00:54:02,600
Speaker 3: united or in contact with one another. If they become separated,

970
00:54:02,800 --> 00:54:05,840
Speaker 3: you may need to do some kind of cleansing or exorcism,

971
00:54:06,000 --> 00:54:10,000
Speaker 3: or some kind of ritual acknowledgment of the severing there

972
00:54:10,160 --> 00:54:13,360
Speaker 3: or destruction of the thing as it is separated from you,

973
00:54:13,880 --> 00:54:16,120
Speaker 3: or else it can be used to have power over

974
00:54:16,160 --> 00:54:19,120
Speaker 3: you by way of the associative magical connection.

975
00:54:19,920 --> 00:54:22,640
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, or in this case, you find another use

976
00:54:22,680 --> 00:54:25,319
Speaker 1: for them. And so according to Hoggard, shoes and other

977
00:54:25,360 --> 00:54:28,880
Speaker 1: objects we're often deposited on ledges, within the chimney breast

978
00:54:28,960 --> 00:54:32,000
Speaker 1: or behind the fireback, and he stresses that quote. Shoes

979
00:54:32,040 --> 00:54:36,360
Speaker 1: are perhaps the most commonly encountered apotropaic objects and often

980
00:54:36,400 --> 00:54:38,280
Speaker 1: had an association with the hearth.

981
00:54:38,800 --> 00:54:41,440
Speaker 3: Oh interesting, so the same object that could become your

982
00:54:41,520 --> 00:54:45,319
Speaker 3: vulnerability if discarded and found by a witch, could be

983
00:54:45,400 --> 00:54:47,759
Speaker 3: your protective amulet if you keep it, if you keep

984
00:54:47,800 --> 00:54:49,239
Speaker 3: it in the home, right.

985
00:54:49,280 --> 00:54:51,680
Speaker 1: And I'll come back to why this may be in

986
00:54:51,760 --> 00:54:54,200
Speaker 1: just a second, but before we do, I want to

987
00:54:54,239 --> 00:54:56,680
Speaker 1: talk briefly about witch bottles, which are I think the

988
00:54:56,760 --> 00:55:02,920
Speaker 1: more exciting and exotic sounding version of abotropic objects hidden

989
00:55:02,960 --> 00:55:06,239
Speaker 1: in a home, often in the area of the hearth. Now,

990
00:55:06,280 --> 00:55:09,960
Speaker 1: there's some variety to what these will consist of but

991
00:55:10,120 --> 00:55:13,040
Speaker 1: you know, they have been found, they've been analyzed, they're

992
00:55:13,040 --> 00:55:14,839
Speaker 1: still being found. That's one of the great things that

993
00:55:15,200 --> 00:55:17,640
Speaker 1: Hagard discusses is that you have so many different waves

994
00:55:17,680 --> 00:55:20,439
Speaker 1: of renovation that take place with some of these old

995
00:55:20,480 --> 00:55:25,080
Speaker 1: homes in Europe, in Britain, in the UK, and also

996
00:55:25,280 --> 00:55:28,880
Speaker 1: in parts of the United States and Canada as well,

997
00:55:29,480 --> 00:55:33,560
Speaker 1: where people will suddenly discover a pair of ancient shoes

998
00:55:34,040 --> 00:55:38,000
Speaker 1: or a strange bottle. And he also discusses how there

999
00:55:38,000 --> 00:55:42,080
Speaker 1: are cases where people have suddenly sort of given into

1000
00:55:42,080 --> 00:55:44,560
Speaker 1: some of the superstition of it and they've had to

1001
00:55:44,600 --> 00:55:47,759
Speaker 1: put sad item back. You know, it's like it's kind

1002
00:55:47,760 --> 00:55:50,160
Speaker 1: of like the reverse of finding a void. You find

1003
00:55:50,160 --> 00:55:54,719
Speaker 1: a purposeful item that you don't fully understand. You're not

1004
00:55:54,760 --> 00:55:57,439
Speaker 1: on the same mental wavelength with it, but you've come

1005
00:55:57,480 --> 00:56:00,239
Speaker 1: to believe, well, I should put it back. I don't

1006
00:56:00,280 --> 00:56:02,040
Speaker 1: know my way around all of this enough to say

1007
00:56:02,080 --> 00:56:03,200
Speaker 1: it doesn't belong there.

1008
00:56:03,640 --> 00:56:06,200
Speaker 3: I can sympathize with that, and this may just say

1009
00:56:06,200 --> 00:56:10,440
Speaker 3: something about my you know, personality or kind of tendencies,

1010
00:56:10,480 --> 00:56:15,560
Speaker 3: the character tendencies. But while I would never take active

1011
00:56:15,719 --> 00:56:18,720
Speaker 3: steps to do it to like you know, put shoes

1012
00:56:18,719 --> 00:56:20,960
Speaker 3: in a wall thinking it would protect my house or something.

1013
00:56:21,000 --> 00:56:24,880
Speaker 3: I would feel weird about taking something out. Yeah, yeah,

1014
00:56:25,120 --> 00:56:28,040
Speaker 3: it seems like, well, feels like I shouldn't do that.

1015
00:56:28,640 --> 00:56:31,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, that may be a load bearing shoe.

1016
00:56:31,520 --> 00:56:32,360
Speaker 3: Just leave it alone.

1017
00:56:33,920 --> 00:56:36,319
Speaker 1: So with witch bottles, again there's some variation as to

1018
00:56:36,360 --> 00:56:41,240
Speaker 1: what they may hold, but there are various written instructions

1019
00:56:41,560 --> 00:56:45,200
Speaker 1: from historical records that talk about what goes into a

1020
00:56:45,239 --> 00:56:48,759
Speaker 1: witch bottle, and one that Hoggard shares This is from

1021
00:56:49,000 --> 00:56:52,400
Speaker 1: seventeen oh one and he includes it in his book,

1022
00:56:52,480 --> 00:56:54,600
Speaker 1: and basically the directions are to take a pint of

1023
00:56:54,640 --> 00:56:58,200
Speaker 1: your own urine, heat it to near scalding temperatures, pour

1024
00:56:58,239 --> 00:57:01,680
Speaker 1: it into a jug, and then add white salt and

1025
00:57:01,840 --> 00:57:05,400
Speaker 1: three new nails with the points down. Then you bind

1026
00:57:05,520 --> 00:57:07,960
Speaker 1: the jug with clay and leather and you heat it

1027
00:57:08,000 --> 00:57:10,040
Speaker 1: over embers for nine to ten days.

1028
00:57:10,520 --> 00:57:12,760
Speaker 3: It's gotta work because look at all the steps.

1029
00:57:13,080 --> 00:57:16,240
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I think sometimes there are more steps than

1030
00:57:16,240 --> 00:57:18,400
Speaker 1: may be a simplified version, but it's the basics are

1031
00:57:18,520 --> 00:57:21,720
Speaker 1: in play here. The urine, the pointy object. Sometimes they're

1032
00:57:21,760 --> 00:57:24,200
Speaker 1: pins or needles. Sometimes it's like a lot of like

1033
00:57:24,280 --> 00:57:27,000
Speaker 1: rusty nails, pins or needles and so forth. So in

1034
00:57:27,040 --> 00:57:29,400
Speaker 1: the case of the shoes and the witch bottle, here

1035
00:57:29,920 --> 00:57:33,760
Speaker 1: the basic idea would seem to be this. You have

1036
00:57:33,800 --> 00:57:37,040
Speaker 1: an unseen evil force, be it a demon, a fairy,

1037
00:57:37,160 --> 00:57:40,720
Speaker 1: a ghost, or some curse of a witch, and it

1038
00:57:40,840 --> 00:57:45,080
Speaker 1: is seeking you. It has entered your home, perhaps through

1039
00:57:45,120 --> 00:57:49,040
Speaker 1: a door, perhaps through a window, perhaps down the chimney

1040
00:57:49,200 --> 00:57:53,440
Speaker 1: and through the fireplace. It's seeking you out. But what

1041
00:57:53,520 --> 00:57:57,960
Speaker 1: does an encounter. Instead, it encounters your smell, and encounters

1042
00:57:58,560 --> 00:58:00,640
Speaker 1: the shoe that was so much a part of your

1043
00:58:00,680 --> 00:58:03,880
Speaker 1: body and now can be mistaken for your body, and

1044
00:58:03,920 --> 00:58:06,400
Speaker 1: it goes after that. Instead, it serves as a decoy.

1045
00:58:06,920 --> 00:58:10,320
Speaker 1: And in the case of the witch bottle, it's even

1046
00:58:10,360 --> 00:58:14,560
Speaker 1: more exciting. So it smells that deep uriny stench that

1047
00:58:14,680 --> 00:58:17,600
Speaker 1: is associated with you. But it's found the bottle first.

1048
00:58:17,680 --> 00:58:20,400
Speaker 1: And so what does this evil thing do, this spirit,

1049
00:58:20,600 --> 00:58:25,120
Speaker 1: this dark seeker in the night. It climbs inside that bottle.

1050
00:58:25,360 --> 00:58:28,000
Speaker 1: But uh oh, Now it is either trapped in the

1051
00:58:28,000 --> 00:58:31,880
Speaker 1: bottle or it is impaled upon all of those sharp

1052
00:58:31,920 --> 00:58:36,360
Speaker 1: pointy bits inside the bottle and therefore injured or perhaps

1053
00:58:36,440 --> 00:58:39,960
Speaker 1: killed by this witch bottle, this trap that has been

1054
00:58:40,000 --> 00:58:40,560
Speaker 1: set for it.

1055
00:58:41,280 --> 00:58:43,760
Speaker 3: That's ingenious. I didn't know it was going there with

1056
00:58:43,840 --> 00:58:46,000
Speaker 3: the nails, but that makes sense. I was wondering if

1057
00:58:46,000 --> 00:58:48,000
Speaker 3: the nails had some kind of you know, they might

1058
00:58:48,000 --> 00:58:51,480
Speaker 3: be iron nails unless the iron significance as like a

1059
00:58:51,520 --> 00:58:54,760
Speaker 3: protective magic against the fairy folk and so forth.

1060
00:58:54,920 --> 00:58:56,800
Speaker 1: Yeah, and there may be part of that to it

1061
00:58:56,840 --> 00:59:00,400
Speaker 1: as well, you know, and certainly protective magic like this,

1062
00:59:00,600 --> 00:59:04,160
Speaker 1: you know, they may sort of like drag various ideas

1063
00:59:04,200 --> 00:59:08,200
Speaker 1: with them across time. So I would not discount the

1064
00:59:08,600 --> 00:59:11,960
Speaker 1: importance of the iron at all. But this is all

1065
00:59:12,080 --> 00:59:16,600
Speaker 1: very interesting to think about in comparison to various Christmas traditions,

1066
00:59:16,600 --> 00:59:19,680
Speaker 1: like I instantly think about wooden clogs left out for

1067
00:59:19,840 --> 00:59:22,919
Speaker 1: Saint Nicholas or Santa though I've also read that prior

1068
00:59:23,000 --> 00:59:25,480
Speaker 1: to the sixteenth century, at least in some European countries,

1069
00:59:25,520 --> 00:59:27,400
Speaker 1: the clogs were left in the church rather than in

1070
00:59:27,400 --> 00:59:31,640
Speaker 1: the home. I'm not as well versed in the history

1071
00:59:31,680 --> 00:59:35,240
Speaker 1: of those traditions, but at any rate, you do have

1072
00:59:35,320 --> 00:59:39,800
Speaker 1: examples where shoes are left out so that some entity

1073
00:59:40,200 --> 00:59:44,400
Speaker 1: may deposit gifts inside them, and those shoes may be placed,

1074
00:59:44,400 --> 00:59:46,600
Speaker 1: I think often near doors or windows, so there still

1075
00:59:46,680 --> 00:59:49,560
Speaker 1: is that sense of put them near the aperture, put

1076
00:59:49,600 --> 00:59:52,440
Speaker 1: them near the portals. And where do we hang our

1077
00:59:52,480 --> 00:59:55,600
Speaker 1: stockings with care? We of course hang them again by

1078
00:59:55,680 --> 01:00:01,200
Speaker 1: the fireplace, by the hearth. Yeah, almost as if we're

1079
01:00:01,240 --> 01:00:03,800
Speaker 1: trying to throw Santa Claus off the scent. You know,

1080
01:00:03,880 --> 01:00:06,400
Speaker 1: there is no need, strange one, to bring the gifts

1081
01:00:06,440 --> 01:00:10,680
Speaker 1: directly to the children. Here is their sense, smell their feet.

1082
01:00:11,600 --> 01:00:14,680
Speaker 1: Here is the essence you seek. Leave the gifts here,

1083
01:00:15,080 --> 01:00:17,840
Speaker 1: leave the children alone in their room.

1084
01:00:17,400 --> 01:00:19,760
Speaker 3: Or the coal, I guess if applicable.

1085
01:00:20,040 --> 01:00:22,240
Speaker 1: Yes, there is no need to put the coal inside

1086
01:00:22,280 --> 01:00:25,800
Speaker 1: the children, leave it in the socks. And thus he

1087
01:00:25,880 --> 01:00:28,720
Speaker 1: is outsmarted, and he leaves the children alone for another year?

1088
01:00:29,360 --> 01:00:33,960
Speaker 3: What resonance this idea is now bounding about inside me?

1089
01:00:35,320 --> 01:00:39,360
Speaker 1: One more note from Brian Haggard. I was looking through

1090
01:00:39,360 --> 01:00:41,120
Speaker 1: the book to see I couldn't remember if he had

1091
01:00:41,440 --> 01:00:46,120
Speaker 1: mentioned anything Christmasy in particular, And he does mention a

1092
01:00:46,360 --> 01:00:51,160
Speaker 1: rhyme that was associated with ritual burn marks from tapers

1093
01:00:51,160 --> 01:00:53,560
Speaker 1: in homes. So, like I say, there were various There

1094
01:00:53,560 --> 01:00:56,840
Speaker 1: are various marks and signs inside some of these old

1095
01:00:56,880 --> 01:01:01,960
Speaker 1: homes that are interpreted as being associated with various protective

1096
01:01:02,040 --> 01:01:06,960
Speaker 1: magical activities. And rituals, and one of them I think

1097
01:01:06,960 --> 01:01:09,160
Speaker 1: could be easy to miss. It's just like burn marks

1098
01:01:09,360 --> 01:01:11,680
Speaker 1: in a house. I included a picture from his book

1099
01:01:11,720 --> 01:01:13,120
Speaker 1: here for you to look at, Joe, Like, if you

1100
01:01:13,120 --> 01:01:15,240
Speaker 1: didn't know what you're looking at, you might just think

1101
01:01:15,280 --> 01:01:17,560
Speaker 1: these were caused by some other you know, I don't know,

1102
01:01:17,600 --> 01:01:21,560
Speaker 1: something that occurred during construction or something like that. But

1103
01:01:22,840 --> 01:01:26,080
Speaker 1: an interpretation here is that these were ritual burn marks.

1104
01:01:26,120 --> 01:01:29,560
Speaker 1: And he includes this is a translation, but it is

1105
01:01:30,480 --> 01:01:34,360
Speaker 1: a translation of a German rhyme that apparently went along

1106
01:01:34,400 --> 01:01:38,040
Speaker 1: with some holiday traditions of protecting the home. So I'm

1107
01:01:38,040 --> 01:01:39,560
Speaker 1: going to read it here again. This is from Brian

1108
01:01:39,640 --> 01:01:44,400
Speaker 1: Huggrid's book and it goes as follows, and round about

1109
01:01:44,440 --> 01:01:47,920
Speaker 1: the house they go with torch or taper, clear that

1110
01:01:48,080 --> 01:01:51,720
Speaker 1: neither bread nor meat do want know which with dreadful

1111
01:01:51,840 --> 01:01:55,400
Speaker 1: charm have power to hurt their children or do the

1112
01:01:55,480 --> 01:01:58,400
Speaker 1: cattle harm. So I'm not saying burn beams in your

1113
01:01:58,400 --> 01:02:03,840
Speaker 1: house with fire as part of your holiday traditions. But yeah,

1114
01:02:03,880 --> 01:02:06,600
Speaker 1: it's interesting to think about all of this. And again,

1115
01:02:06,640 --> 01:02:08,960
Speaker 1: this is another one that involves the power of fire,

1116
01:02:09,720 --> 01:02:14,040
Speaker 1: the power of the flame to protect us against unseen things.

1117
01:02:14,080 --> 01:02:18,080
Speaker 1: In the night. By the way, I know Brian would

1118
01:02:18,120 --> 01:02:20,560
Speaker 1: want me to pass this along to you. If you

1119
01:02:21,280 --> 01:02:24,600
Speaker 1: do encounter something like this in your house strange shoes,

1120
01:02:24,640 --> 01:02:27,760
Speaker 1: a strange item, a witch bottle and so forth, it

1121
01:02:28,200 --> 01:02:31,680
Speaker 1: is very helpful to like reach out to people who

1122
01:02:31,720 --> 01:02:35,320
Speaker 1: will document it all. And a lot of people do

1123
01:02:35,440 --> 01:02:40,120
Speaker 1: reach out to Brian Hoggard themselves. He's on Instagram as

1124
01:02:40,360 --> 01:02:43,520
Speaker 1: folk Magic Man. He also has a website, so just

1125
01:02:43,560 --> 01:02:46,840
Speaker 1: look him up. It's Brian Hoggart h O G A

1126
01:02:47,080 --> 01:02:48,880
Speaker 1: r D. And he can point you in the right

1127
01:02:48,880 --> 01:02:52,439
Speaker 1: direction if if you encounter something like this in your home,

1128
01:02:53,120 --> 01:02:56,040
Speaker 1: or email us and I'll forward it to him. Happy

1129
01:02:56,080 --> 01:02:56,480
Speaker 1: to do that.

1130
01:02:57,200 --> 01:02:59,280
Speaker 3: All right, Well, I think we're out of time for today.

1131
01:02:59,280 --> 01:03:01,880
Speaker 3: We've got more to say and to explore about the

1132
01:03:01,920 --> 01:03:04,480
Speaker 3: fireplace and the hearth, so join us again on Thursday.

1133
01:03:05,120 --> 01:03:07,000
Speaker 1: That's right. In the meantime, we'll remind you that this

1134
01:03:07,000 --> 01:03:08,800
Speaker 1: stuff to blow your mind is primarily as signed some

1135
01:03:08,800 --> 01:03:12,000
Speaker 1: culture podcasts with core episodes on Tuesdays and Thursdays. On

1136
01:03:12,000 --> 01:03:14,360
Speaker 1: Wednesdays we do a short form episode and on Fridays

1137
01:03:14,400 --> 01:03:16,560
Speaker 1: we set aside most series concerns to just talk about

1138
01:03:16,560 --> 01:03:20,400
Speaker 1: a weird film on Weird House Cinema. If you're on Instagram,

1139
01:03:20,640 --> 01:03:24,440
Speaker 1: follow us at stbym podcast, and if you are on

1140
01:03:24,680 --> 01:03:27,520
Speaker 1: Letterboxed follow us at Weird House. That's where you can

1141
01:03:27,560 --> 01:03:30,320
Speaker 1: keep up with movies that we're covering on Weird House Cinema.

1142
01:03:30,800 --> 01:03:34,520
Speaker 3: Huge thanks as always to our excellent audio producer JJ Posway.

1143
01:03:34,880 --> 01:03:36,520
Speaker 3: If you would like to get in touch with us

1144
01:03:36,520 --> 01:03:39,000
Speaker 3: with feedback on this episode or any other, to suggest

1145
01:03:39,000 --> 01:03:41,040
Speaker 3: a topic for the future, or just to say hello,

1146
01:03:41,480 --> 01:03:44,320
Speaker 3: you can email us at contact stuff to Blow your

1147
01:03:44,320 --> 01:03:52,360
Speaker 3: Mind dot com.

1148
01:03:52,480 --> 01:03:55,400
Speaker 2: Stuff to Blow Your Mind is production of iHeartRadio. For

1149
01:03:55,480 --> 01:03:58,280
Speaker 2: more podcasts from my Heart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app,

1150
01:03:58,440 --> 01:04:13,040
Speaker 2: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you some two favorite shows