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Speaker 1: I am thrilled today to be joined by my friend

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Speaker 1: Abby McCloskey, who is a columnist with the Dallas Morning

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Speaker 1: News and the host of the Beyond talking Points podcast.

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Speaker 1: I hope you subscribe to it. Abby is smart, she

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Speaker 1: is insightful, and I'm really grateful that she is with

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Speaker 1: us here today. Abby, Welcome, Wow, thanks to you.

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Speaker 2: Glad to be here.

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Speaker 1: Nineteen days left, two days ago in Texas. You're in Texas,

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Speaker 1: So I have to start with the colon Alred Ted

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Speaker 1: Cruz campaign and the debate and your impressions of it

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Speaker 1: and where that stands. It looks like from outside of

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Speaker 1: Texas is a very very close race. Could Ted Cruz loose?

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Speaker 3: Unlikely that Ted Cruise would lose. Texas is still a

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Speaker 3: dominant Republican state. But I like Colin already and he's

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Speaker 3: running a good race. So we'll see what happens in

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Speaker 3: a few weeks.

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Speaker 1: What about like extent to which that Ted Cruz from

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Speaker 1: a value set, right from a cultural perspective is I'm

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Speaker 1: fifty four, so I would I date myself a little

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Speaker 1: bit right that this ethos of Texas right, that you

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Speaker 1: don't run away to cantcuon during a crisis. You don't hide.

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Speaker 1: You don't hide in the closet when the mob comes

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Speaker 1: from the insurrection. Right, this is the state of James

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Speaker 1: Errol Retter, the state of Audie Murphy. It's Texas.

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Speaker 2: It's the state of the Alamo. We just came back

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Speaker 2: from an Alamo. And it's so I.

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Speaker 3: Came to Texas, Steve a decade ago. I'm from Cleveland,

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Speaker 3: distant in DC. And when I came to Texas, Perry

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Speaker 3: was governor, and you and I worked on his second

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Speaker 3: presidential campaign together. And what drew me here was really

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Speaker 3: the conservative economic focus. And it's a place of opportunity

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Speaker 3: because it's going to be a pretty light tax and

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Speaker 3: regulatory environment.

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Speaker 2: You can kind of become who you want to be

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Speaker 2: in the state.

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Speaker 3: And over the last ten years, I think what's happened

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Speaker 3: in Texas is really a bell weather for what's happened

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Speaker 3: across the nation. Is at the heart of Republican and

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Speaker 3: conservative politics has moved from limited government, economics, opportunity focus

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Speaker 3: what really appealed to me into more of a red

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Speaker 3: meat culture, wars, guns, abortion, cancel culture, you name it.

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Speaker 3: That switch has been really off putting to me. I

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Speaker 3: think it's been off putting to.

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Speaker 2: A lot of people.

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Speaker 3: I think that's why you see a competitive race here

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Speaker 3: with all Red and Cruise.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, but it's a nature.

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Speaker 3: Texas has changed, just like the country's changing, and the

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Speaker 3: areas of focus are changing too.

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Speaker 1: What is the country changing into? I watched the debate

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Speaker 1: between Harris and Trump, and I thought that Harris's reaction

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Speaker 1: when he talks about the Haitians or eating pets was

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Speaker 1: perfect in that it was human shocked, burst out laughing

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Speaker 1: the preposterousness of it. But when you unpack it, it

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Speaker 1: is as vicious a racist lies anything that came out

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Speaker 1: of the mouth of a Joseph Goebels or a Julius Striker.

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Speaker 1: It is a dehumanizing quote that takes black people and

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Speaker 1: casts them really as tribal savages. Let loosen this Christine

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Speaker 1: White topia as described by Trump, where they're kidnapping and

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Speaker 1: cooking and barbecuing, barbecuing, barbecuing the pets. What is that?

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Speaker 1: I have said right that Trump is a fascist for

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Speaker 1: years now because I valuate what he says. I take

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Speaker 1: it literally, I take it seriously, and I says, this

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Speaker 1: is sure what a fascist says. But the modern conservative

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Speaker 1: movement has wound up here, which is not a place

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Speaker 1: I would have anticipated it winding up from the perch

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Speaker 1: I sat in in the Bush White House in two

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Speaker 1: thousand and five. But maybe I was very naive.

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Speaker 2: In that Stephen.

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Speaker 3: I do want to spend a moment on immigration here,

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Speaker 3: but let me table it for a minute, because I

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Speaker 3: think you look at go to the VP debate with

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Speaker 3: Vans and Walls, and you.

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Speaker 2: Say, you know what, for the most part, this kind

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Speaker 2: of looks like.

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Speaker 3: Not much in America has changed, just kind of looks

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Speaker 3: like a normal debate.

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Speaker 2: If these two guys at the top of the ticket.

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Speaker 3: And there's some strange things like the Haitian pets claim

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Speaker 3: is not withdrawn or denied by Vance, he stands behind it.

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Speaker 3: Vance didn't He continued to perpetuate the lie.

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Speaker 2: That the election was stolen in twenty twenty.

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Speaker 3: So there were some strange things. On a whole, it

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Speaker 3: seemed pretty normal. And so I think there's this desire

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Speaker 3: among I'll put it, like the exhausted majority most Americans

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Speaker 3: to say this is just a phase with what's going

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Speaker 3: on with Trump at the top of the ticket, and

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Speaker 3: you know, beneath it were actually, okay, I'm not convinced

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Speaker 3: that that's true. I think that the VP debate was

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Speaker 3: a glimmer of normalcy, but that a normalcy that's on

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Speaker 3: the decline. You know, I follow a lot of the

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Speaker 3: political science literature where the most polarizes a nation that

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Speaker 3: we've been since the Civil War. I'm sure your viewers

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Speaker 3: know that our views of the other party are not

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Speaker 3: just that they're wrong on policy, it's that they're immoral.

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Speaker 3: And in some cases there's reason to say that's certainly

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Speaker 3: the case, I think in many examples on both sides.

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Speaker 3: But underneath that politics, we have a fracturing of a

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Speaker 3: country of trust in things like media, schools, police families

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Speaker 3: are breaking down, and so there's just a deep fracturing,

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Speaker 3: I think is the best word, from the top, the

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Speaker 3: politics all the way down, which makes this moment incredibly

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Speaker 3: volatile and precarious, and it creates an environment where things

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Speaker 3: like patians eating pets, which has you know, I was

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Speaker 3: a Senate staffer, right we'd get letters about stuff like

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Speaker 3: that all the time, and you'd go to snopes dot

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Speaker 3: com and be like, Nope, this is a conspiracy.

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Speaker 2: We appreciate your concern, thank you very much much.

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Speaker 3: But now we're in such an environment of distrust because

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Speaker 3: of the fracturing of institutions at the very most local

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Speaker 3: and upper levels, that things like that just completely baseless

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Speaker 3: lies can somehow flourish, which is it's pretty it's pretty astounding.

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Speaker 3: I think, you know, the thought was, when we came

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Speaker 3: into an environment with the Internet and fact checkers, we

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Speaker 3: have more information, more knowledge than we've ever had, and

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Speaker 3: there is more confusion than there's ever been because it's

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Speaker 3: really unclear. I think even for the earnest, honest person

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Speaker 3: trying to figure out what's going on, to know where

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Speaker 3: to to know where to look. Are all the big

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Speaker 3: media companies in cooots does this one random podcast or

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Speaker 3: talking to do they know what's going on? Kind of

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Speaker 3: where's the truth and how do I find it? And

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Speaker 3: I think in the midst of a lot of that confusion,

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Speaker 3: it is a breeding ground for things like conspiracy theories

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Speaker 3: and an attempt to kind of grasp onto control. But

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Speaker 3: I want to talk about the immigration piece. That's a

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Speaker 3: big deal here in Texas in particular, it was a

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Speaker 3: big deal at the Bush White House they tried to

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Speaker 3: pass immigration reform. One.

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Speaker 1: I don't want to cut you off before we get

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Speaker 1: into immigration. But let me let me frame the immigration

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Speaker 1: debate that that we had in the country and give

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Speaker 1: you an opportunity to dispute my premise here, because I

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Speaker 1: had a conviction about this. Worked for John McCain, worked

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Speaker 1: in the Bush White House and was part of a

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Speaker 1: wing of the Republican Party UH that was pro immigration,

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Speaker 1: UH that talked about the necessity of immigration and recognized

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Speaker 1: what I would have argued was a basic reality that

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Speaker 1: we had some scores of millions of people in the

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Speaker 1: country illegally. The number used to be eleven million. That

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Speaker 1: was the agreed upon number. I think it's a much

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Speaker 1: higher number now, but there's eleven million people that were

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Speaker 1: in the country illegally. There seemed to be a consensus

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Speaker 1: that they were in the country illegally because we tolerated

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Speaker 1: illegal immigration with a wink and a nod as a society.

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Speaker 1: And the deal that was proposed was essentially this that

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Speaker 1: you will pay a fine of some sort, you will

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Speaker 1: be regularized in the United States, meaning you have a

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Speaker 1: legal status, and then you will go to some place

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Speaker 1: in a long line that I don't and have never

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Speaker 1: understood why it's twenty three years long, but the line

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Speaker 1: is that long, and so you will go to the

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Speaker 1: back of the twenty three year line. And so after

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Speaker 1: twenty three years you would be eligible to get a

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Speaker 1: green card, and after seven years, right, you would be

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Speaker 1: eligible to take a citizenship test, right thirty years from now.

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Speaker 1: And and the and the and the parameters of that

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Speaker 1: compromise were we're going to stop illegal immigration into the

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Speaker 1: country with serious control of the border. You have to

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Speaker 1: do that in the post nine to eleven environment, because

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Speaker 1: we must know who's in the country. By the way,

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Speaker 1: every other country in the world, including Mexico, insists on

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Speaker 1: knowing who's in side of its borders. That you can stay,

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Speaker 1: you can pay a fine. That's the deal. That was

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Speaker 1: the that was the architecture of the immigration deal that

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Speaker 1: an overwhelming majority of the country said it supported. Trump

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Speaker 1: comes into a race down the escalator. The Trump the

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Speaker 1: Mexicans are rapists and murderers. They're all super cap highest

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Speaker 1: percentage of Metal of Honor recipients. But Trump does what

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Speaker 1: he does. Biden has sworn in take it from there.

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Speaker 2: It's a pretty good recap. Steve not gonna.

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Speaker 1: Lie, but right.

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Speaker 3: Comprehensive immigration reform has always had three parts.

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Speaker 2: And first, his border security, and.

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Speaker 3: There's always been a time to like for the other

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Speaker 3: two parts, even click in until the border is made

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Speaker 3: more secure.

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Speaker 2: Can it ever be completely secure? Absolutely not.

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Speaker 3: But I think something that gets overlooked in a lot

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Speaker 3: of the debates now is that up until recently, most

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Speaker 3: of our illegal border crossings came from visa entry exit points.

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Speaker 2: It's not just the southern border.

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Speaker 3: It's people who come legally and then oversee their visa

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Speaker 3: and we don't have any tracking mechanism to follow them.

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Speaker 3: The second part is legal immigration, because the way to

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Speaker 3: legally get into the country if you're coming in from

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Speaker 3: Mexico is basically there is no way we have quotas

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Speaker 3: and how many people can come from where the legal

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Speaker 3: system is incredibly backed up. So that's the second part

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Speaker 3: of reform is how do we actually have a legal

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Speaker 3: system that makes sense or we can bring in the

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Speaker 3: workers that companies need, whether it's low skilled or high

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Speaker 3: skilled or in between. How can we have a legal

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Speaker 3: system that benefits the American economy? And then the third

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Speaker 3: is what to do with and I still it's upwards

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Speaker 3: probably of eleven million, but I still like that number.

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Speaker 2: Is what do you do about the people here who are.

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Speaker 3: Living in the shadows or our economy, who we have

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Speaker 3: given a link and a nod that they can stay here.

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Speaker 3: Who do end up living in mixed families that have

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Speaker 3: maybe a child who's a citizen and another child who's

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Speaker 3: a dreamer and a family member who's you know, they're

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Speaker 3: a meshed with us. What do you do about that population?

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Speaker 3: And the consensus was that there is a path to

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Speaker 3: legal status. It doesn't have to be citizenship, it could

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Speaker 3: be doesn't have to be a green card, it could

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Speaker 3: be it could be just a new legal status. But

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Speaker 3: what is a way that we can bring them in.

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Speaker 3: Maybe there's a fine of back taxes, like all the

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Speaker 3: taxes that the old immigrants in general tend to pay taxes,

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Speaker 3: you know, but that there is a way that they

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Speaker 3: are fully with you and me in this country as

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Speaker 3: opposed to having this shadow status. It's those three parts.

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Speaker 3: What to do about border security, what to do about

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Speaker 3: the legal system, what to do about the unauthorized immigrants

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Speaker 3: already here was That was a substance of Reagan's immigration

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Speaker 3: reform forty years ago. Last time we had major immigration reform,

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Speaker 3: That was a substance of Bushes proposal. That was a

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Speaker 3: substance of the Gang of Eight proposal.

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Speaker 1: That is what we.

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Speaker 2: Actually need to fix the system.

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Speaker 3: Okay, So there's a huge surge at our southern border

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Speaker 3: after COVID. Why because all the borders of the world

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Speaker 3: slammed shut during COVID.

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Speaker 2: They open up.

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Speaker 3: The US economy's roaring back faster than anywhere else where.

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Speaker 3: Would you want to go, right, you want to come here.

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Speaker 3: There's a huge surge. It's not necessarily related to Biden's

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Speaker 3: policies as much as it would be related just to.

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Speaker 2: The reality of the pandemic and the pandemic ending.

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Speaker 3: But it happened, and you have Harris basically saying the

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Speaker 3: border secure, we don't have to worry about it. You

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Speaker 3: have some type of I think border security denial that

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Speaker 3: happens on the left, which has opened up the floodgates

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Speaker 3: for Trump to own the issue, to be the border

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Speaker 3: security guy. I think we saw Biden change the policy

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Speaker 3: this summer and become more strict on the border and

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Speaker 3: who can claim asylum. We're seeing Harris tack to the

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Speaker 3: right on the issue. Like I think Trump was right

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Speaker 3: to make border security a focus, he is wrong. You

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Speaker 3: can have a secure order with outline about immigrants, saying

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Speaker 3: that they commit more crimes, which is absolutely false, saying

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Speaker 3: that they're a drag on the debt they actually tend

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Speaker 3: to reduce the federal debts, saying that they take away

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Speaker 3: jobs from the American worker, which rarely ever happens. You

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Speaker 3: can have a secure border without without the racist comments

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Speaker 3: and these lines it, you know, wrapped around it, and that's.

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Speaker 2: For me, what is disgusting about it.

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Speaker 3: And the reality is he built part of the wall

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Speaker 3: he was president, we still have the illegal immigration surge.

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Speaker 3: It takes more than just building a wall. It takes

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Speaker 3: a comprehensive secure system, but it also takes reforming our

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Speaker 3: legal system. And I think to me, the thing that

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Speaker 3: would tear our country apart is his promise of mass deportations,

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Speaker 3: and especially in a place like Texas where it's majority minority,

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Speaker 3: where whites are already the minority in Texas, that if

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Speaker 3: you start having raids of communities with mixed citizenship status,

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Speaker 3: largely targeting Hispanics, that will tear our country apart.

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Speaker 2: And that terrifies me because you know, I'm a policy person.

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Speaker 3: When you look at who's going to be president, everyone

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Speaker 3: promises a bunch of things you can't do a bunch

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Speaker 3: of things because it takes Congress.

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Speaker 2: It wouldn't take Congress.

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Speaker 3: To do those deportations, which is why I think it's

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Speaker 3: particularly scary.

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Speaker 1: We're going to talk about what that, what that looks

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Speaker 1: like should Trump become president in a minute. But if

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Speaker 1: he does, use the word denialism, and I talked to

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Speaker 1: so many people, and so many people who watch this

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Speaker 1: will be voting for Harris. A great many of them

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Speaker 1: do not like at all to be presented with any information,

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Speaker 1: have a great intolerance for any information. The challenges of

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Speaker 1: worldview about the Democratic Party's denialism about two thanks. The

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Speaker 1: first was the border, and so the Democratic Party's position

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Speaker 1: wasn't that we have a crisis at the border because

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Speaker 1: and we're going to do whatever about it. It was

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Speaker 1: to say everything is good at the border, that's right,

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Speaker 1: and largely whatever you wish to refer to it. Corporate media,

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Speaker 1: mainstream media, legacy media, largely that line was echoed as

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Speaker 1: was this is the best version of Biden that we've

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Speaker 1: ever seen. He's good, he's good to go. And both

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Speaker 1: of these things completely fall apart in spectacular fashion. And

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Speaker 1: here we are in this moment and the political consequence

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Speaker 1: of it. It's staggered because Trump, who is the most

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Speaker 1: prolific liar by number of lies told in the history

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Speaker 1: of American politics, is able to muddy up honesty as

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Speaker 1: a core issue because of the gaslighting of the public

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Speaker 1: by the Biden administration on these two issues. One is

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Speaker 1: immigration and one was on Biden's fitness at all.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, let me assure your fears for you assure your fears, Steve.

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Speaker 2: Because the American public never fell formed in pulling.

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Speaker 3: They continued to trust Republicans more on the border. Even

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Speaker 3: during the Biden administration when they're saying no problem, the

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Speaker 3: polls showed Americans knew there was a problem, right, Hence

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Speaker 3: the political gap that Democrats have needed to make up

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Speaker 3: and why they're attacking to their right because no.

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Speaker 2: One was fooled.

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Speaker 3: Okay, But I think what's really frustrating to me is

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Speaker 3: that even when you recognize the challenge of border security

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Speaker 3: is that that does not need to be accompanied by

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Speaker 3: the lies and the muck that you talk about, that

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Speaker 3: there aren't easy solutions for this, that Democrats are wrong

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Speaker 3: to be a like, are the border secure? Is? You know,

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Speaker 3: they said a few years ago Republicans are wrong to

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Speaker 3: be like, you can just secure the border.

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Speaker 2: I mean that's really hard.

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Speaker 3: You can talk about it all you want, but if

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Speaker 3: you really want to do it, like that's that's tricking.

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Speaker 3: These issues are complicated, and it did complicated thoughtful solutions

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Speaker 3: that don't you know people aren't triggered on each side.

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Speaker 2: Talking about them.

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Speaker 1: I think, yeah, you said no one was fooled, but

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Speaker 1: I yeah, yes, but many were unnecessarily antagonized on these issues.

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Speaker 1: And what I mean by that is that and I

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Speaker 1: fall into this category, and I think it's a human

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Speaker 1: psychology question. I always say that if I knew that

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Speaker 1: I was going to spend a career running political campaigns,

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Speaker 1: I would have made her in psychology as opposed to

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Speaker 1: as opposed to political science. Right. But I use this

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Speaker 1: example right cause I think it's vividly illustrative of the point.

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Speaker 1: Is Joe Scarborough looks into the camera one morning and

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Speaker 1: he says, a couple of weeks before the debate, this

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Speaker 1: is the best version of Joe Biden there has ever been.

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Speaker 1: He's smarter, he's more experienced, YadA, YadA, YadA, and then

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Speaker 1: he had he up to he raises the end. Scarborough

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Speaker 1: goes and if you say otherwise, I'm looking in the camera.

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Speaker 1: F you goes f you. So there is a percentage

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Speaker 1: of the human population that gets deeply antagonized when they're

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Speaker 1: told to accept something that they can obviously is not so,

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Speaker 1: and then are yelled at it, yelled at, yelled at

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Speaker 1: by someone right about being hot, like, sit down and

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Speaker 1: shut up. And we live in a defiant country. Maybe

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Speaker 1: Texas is the epicenter of defiance, right like culturally as

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Speaker 1: a state. So that doesn't So that doesn't work, right,

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Speaker 1: So these issues have antagonized people because of the response

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Speaker 1: to the obvious has been shut up and sit out.

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Speaker 1: And here we are, and so let's talk about And

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Speaker 1: you are a small c conservative, a limited government conservative,

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Speaker 1: a policy expert. So I've always made the argument that

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Speaker 1: there's no big government like the one that tries to

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Speaker 1: deport ten million people and peer through your bedroom window.

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Speaker 1: But let's talk about what it would look like toort

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Speaker 1: let's call a thirteen million people from the United States.

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Speaker 1: Has anybody put a dollar cost on that?

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Speaker 2: There have been a lot of studies, actually, including official

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Speaker 2: government ones and nonofficialtinc tank or policy ones.

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Speaker 3: Obviously, if you deport ten eleven twelve million people.

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Speaker 2: You suffer a huge economic contraction. Right, Businesses struggle to

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Speaker 2: find workers.

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Speaker 3: This is not like a shuffle and all of a

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Speaker 3: sudden there's a bunch of American workers ready to go

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Speaker 3: to take those jobs. This is a huge economic contraction. Okay,

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Speaker 3: I think his ability to actually do that would be

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Speaker 3: pretty limited. So my nightmare scenario is, actually it's a

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Speaker 3: much smaller number, but the amount of social, social and

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Speaker 3: cultural upheople and economic impact limited to particular towns would

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Speaker 3: be so disastrous and cause so many conspiracy theories even

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Speaker 3: floating up from that on all sides that it that

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Speaker 3: I do, I think it would be absolutely devastating beyond

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Speaker 3: the dollar amount.

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Speaker 2: So, like what it does to our connection to each.

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Speaker 1: Other, You're you're answering to question through a prism of

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Speaker 1: cost to the economy in a in a macro lens.

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Speaker 1: And I'm gonna I'm gonna put a fence around this conversation,

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Speaker 1: uh I just because and I want to and I

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Speaker 1: want to get I want to get into it. Right,

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Speaker 1: It's just that, So I'm gonna take him literally as serious.

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Speaker 1: But they've set is deport upwards of fifteen million people. Say, Okay,

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Speaker 1: that's you're going to do it. I want to talk

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Speaker 1: about what that looks like. And I just wonder, right,

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Speaker 1: it may be that no one has set as a plan, right,

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Speaker 1: the dollar cost, right logistically of the poorting fifteen million

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Speaker 1: people is going to cost?

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Speaker 4: What?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I see what you're saying.

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Speaker 3: You're saying that the military personnel, the camps that need

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Speaker 3: to be built.

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Speaker 2: They're like, what is that again? I think, well, the.

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Speaker 1: US military, the US military as you know, right, I mean,

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Speaker 1: are we going to detail the one hundred and first

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Speaker 1: Airborne to deportation camps? Right? Because I thought the one

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Speaker 1: hundred and first Airborne was in a training cycle, right,

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Speaker 1: that they were preparing for combat? Right? So so is

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Speaker 1: it is it? What what percentage of the military budget

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Speaker 1: will be appropriated towards the deportation effort? What submarines are

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Speaker 1: we planning to cancel for example, that are that are

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Speaker 1: scheduled to be deployed in the Pacific? I mean, how

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Speaker 1: many law enforcement do you need to deport fifteen million?

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Speaker 1: Where will the camps be or are we putting them

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Speaker 1: on trains? Are they going on planes?

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Speaker 3: I think that's an important point, right, because it's not

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Speaker 3: the government cost of the Trail of Tears and the

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Speaker 3: Cherokee Nation. It's not the government cost of Japanese in tournament.

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Speaker 3: That's not why we look back at those episodes with horror.

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Speaker 3: It's because of.

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Speaker 2: What was actually happening and how humans were treated. And again, even.

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Speaker 3: If you don't deport, however, the full number ten million plus,

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Speaker 3: which would be actually really hard because of course we

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Speaker 3: don't even know where they are.

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Speaker 2: This is part of the problem. They're not documented.

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Speaker 3: But even a much smaller number, you're building camps.

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Speaker 2: You can't just go.

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Speaker 3: There's going to be types of the types we saw

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Speaker 3: with the separation of kids and parents at the border.

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Speaker 2: There's still a thousand kids, by the way.

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Speaker 3: Who are not reconnected with their parents from the first

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Speaker 3: Trump administration. It's it is, it's camps, it's round ups,

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Speaker 3: it's door to door to try to figure out citizenship status.

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Speaker 2: It would be it would be awful.

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Speaker 1: Check points on highways papers please sure, I.

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Speaker 2: Mean we saw glimmers of that.

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Speaker 3: If you got pulled over with the traffic ticket, maybe

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Speaker 3: we're going to check your immigration papers too. I think

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Speaker 3: it would It would dial up the fear, the distrust,

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Speaker 3: and it would be awful, which is why, which is why,

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Speaker 3: even though I'm an Anglican, I liked the Pope's comments

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Speaker 3: that neither party stands for life.

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Speaker 2: What would happen under Trump with immigration is.

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Speaker 3: Horrifying in the same way I don't support, you know,

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Speaker 3: Harris's approach.

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Speaker 1: Let's say, let's roll play. You'd be the blurb control agent, right,

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Speaker 1: or the National guardsman or the soldier on a highway

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Speaker 1: at a checkpoint, right, and you're saying papers please, yeah,

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Speaker 1: citizenship check And I say, go fuck yourself, because this

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Speaker 1: would be my response.

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Speaker 2: It's not hard to imagine, Steve.

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Speaker 1: Right, I don't have to show you that that will

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Speaker 1: be my that will be that will be my response

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Speaker 1: like I would as an American citizen. I will not

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Speaker 1: present my papers on an American highway in the interior

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Speaker 1: of the country to any federal official to prove my

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Speaker 1: American citizenship. I just won't do it, right, I will.

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Speaker 1: I will. So what what happens then, because I'm not

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Speaker 1: sure that there's a statute out there that requires me

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Speaker 1: to do so. In fact, I'm pretty sure there's not.

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Speaker 3: I mean, I think if you're defiant to an officer,

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Speaker 3: it's the same thing that would always happen next. So

438
00:28:06,400 --> 00:28:09,520
Speaker 3: you know, you're at a car, you're you know, you're

439
00:28:09,520 --> 00:28:11,679
Speaker 3: being cop, you're talking back, you're maybe.

440
00:28:11,520 --> 00:28:15,800
Speaker 2: You're a physically imposing person. Right, But again, it's what

441
00:28:15,840 --> 00:28:16,240
Speaker 2: I'm saying.

442
00:28:16,240 --> 00:28:18,439
Speaker 3: It's not a clean It's not like we automatically know

443
00:28:18,480 --> 00:28:19,520
Speaker 3: who's here unauthorized.

444
00:28:19,760 --> 00:28:24,159
Speaker 2: It would be it would be so invasive, even including

445
00:28:24,160 --> 00:28:29,480
Speaker 2: our citizens to especially Hispanic citizens here, and militaristic.

446
00:28:30,119 --> 00:28:32,240
Speaker 3: And you know, again, at the end of the day,

447
00:28:32,359 --> 00:28:35,560
Speaker 3: and you're the end of the day, if this plan,

448
00:28:35,600 --> 00:28:40,960
Speaker 3: which I think is morally horrifying, we're successful, and all

449
00:28:41,480 --> 00:28:44,520
Speaker 3: millions are deported to places, by the way, most have

450
00:28:44,640 --> 00:28:46,560
Speaker 3: lived here river a decade, the places that they have

451
00:28:46,680 --> 00:28:49,880
Speaker 3: no family, no connections to anymore, and we just close

452
00:28:49,920 --> 00:28:52,760
Speaker 3: our eyes to that humanitarian crisis, and we're back here.

453
00:28:53,160 --> 00:28:56,560
Speaker 3: If there's still no process in place for legal immigration,

454
00:28:57,400 --> 00:28:59,960
Speaker 3: if there is still no security at PISA entry exit points,

455
00:29:00,160 --> 00:29:04,240
Speaker 3: there is still no bipartisan system that doesn't flip flop

456
00:29:04,360 --> 00:29:07,520
Speaker 3: depending on who's in the White House and in Congress.

457
00:29:08,240 --> 00:29:11,320
Speaker 3: The problem is not solved.

458
00:29:12,000 --> 00:29:12,840
Speaker 2: It's not solved.

459
00:29:13,480 --> 00:29:16,680
Speaker 1: It's beyond that though, right, I mean, because the conversation

460
00:29:17,360 --> 00:29:23,760
Speaker 1: that we're having is predicated not on any type of fantasy, right,

461
00:29:23,840 --> 00:29:28,200
Speaker 1: but on the explicit promise of the Republican nominee that

462
00:29:28,280 --> 00:29:34,880
Speaker 1: I'm gonna deport some scores of millions of people up

463
00:29:34,920 --> 00:29:37,080
Speaker 1: to fifteen And what I.

464
00:29:37,080 --> 00:29:39,160
Speaker 2: Said number one campaign promise, yes.

465
00:29:39,120 --> 00:29:43,480
Speaker 1: Right, and what I said is fast forwarding. He said

466
00:29:43,520 --> 00:29:45,840
Speaker 1: he's going to deploy the military to do it. So

467
00:29:45,920 --> 00:29:50,840
Speaker 1: now we have a soldier, right, and it's a it's

468
00:29:50,880 --> 00:29:54,320
Speaker 1: a chuck in the interior. We want to we want

469
00:29:54,360 --> 00:29:58,200
Speaker 1: to see your ID. If I get pulled over on

470
00:29:58,240 --> 00:30:03,760
Speaker 1: a state highway, I'm not going to be compliant with it, right,

471
00:30:03,920 --> 00:30:09,200
Speaker 1: I will resist it because constitutionally, I don't have to

472
00:30:09,280 --> 00:30:13,800
Speaker 1: prove my citizenship moving around moving around the country. I'm

473
00:30:13,800 --> 00:30:16,800
Speaker 1: going to resist it. So the next thing is you

474
00:30:16,880 --> 00:30:18,440
Speaker 1: point out and can be pulled out of your core

475
00:30:19,680 --> 00:30:26,840
Speaker 1: by a soldier restrained and the people that that are

476
00:30:26,960 --> 00:30:30,520
Speaker 1: much more likely to happen to. Right, don't don't have

477
00:30:30,600 --> 00:30:35,320
Speaker 1: our eye color, that's right, right, don't have our complexion,

478
00:30:36,320 --> 00:30:36,800
Speaker 1: that's right.

479
00:30:37,040 --> 00:30:40,640
Speaker 2: And that's why it's so devastating. That's why it's so

480
00:30:40,720 --> 00:30:41,440
Speaker 2: devastating and so.

481
00:30:41,400 --> 00:30:43,680
Speaker 3: iMore And I think to play Devil's advocate with you, Steve,

482
00:30:43,720 --> 00:30:46,400
Speaker 3: I think there are plenty of you know, I'm still

483
00:30:46,440 --> 00:30:50,080
Speaker 3: in conservative circles, right, people who say, just Trump, he

484
00:30:50,080 --> 00:30:53,320
Speaker 3: says all sorts of things. He didn't do mass deportations

485
00:30:53,360 --> 00:30:55,760
Speaker 3: the first time. He's just saying it to get into

486
00:30:55,800 --> 00:30:58,600
Speaker 3: the office, you know. And then so it's nothing to

487
00:30:58,600 --> 00:31:00,760
Speaker 3: worry about. And so I think you're to play for

488
00:31:01,080 --> 00:31:03,880
Speaker 3: the film and say, even if it doesn't happen to

489
00:31:03,920 --> 00:31:06,320
Speaker 3: the skill that he says, it does for all sorts

490
00:31:06,360 --> 00:31:09,640
Speaker 3: of reasons, like like costs and just to sheer exercise

491
00:31:09,680 --> 00:31:12,800
Speaker 3: of it, it would be devastating and it would be

492
00:31:12,840 --> 00:31:15,880
Speaker 3: a stain on our common humanity and the citizens of

493
00:31:15,920 --> 00:31:16,320
Speaker 3: the country.

494
00:31:16,680 --> 00:31:20,040
Speaker 2: It's a wrong thing to do, and it doesn't solve

495
00:31:20,040 --> 00:31:20,520
Speaker 2: the problem.

496
00:31:20,720 --> 00:31:24,840
Speaker 1: I was struck a week or so ago on the

497
00:31:24,920 --> 00:31:26,760
Speaker 1: View Joyce Baharr.

498
00:31:27,280 --> 00:31:29,280
Speaker 2: Watch a lot of TVM.

499
00:31:29,080 --> 00:31:34,800
Speaker 1: Vere I see the right, and she said something that

500
00:31:34,880 --> 00:31:37,400
Speaker 1: I thought was like really deeply true.

501
00:31:37,800 --> 00:31:37,960
Speaker 4: Right.

502
00:31:38,040 --> 00:31:43,080
Speaker 1: She was like, I cannot imagine how any person could

503
00:31:43,160 --> 00:31:45,760
Speaker 1: ever vote for Donald Trump.

504
00:31:46,960 --> 00:31:47,120
Speaker 2: Right.

505
00:31:47,280 --> 00:31:49,880
Speaker 1: She just like, like, I think that is as true

506
00:31:49,920 --> 00:31:54,040
Speaker 1: as statement rights as has been set on television.

507
00:31:54,120 --> 00:31:54,280
Speaker 5: Right.

508
00:31:54,360 --> 00:31:59,960
Speaker 1: You could hold a gun to her head, you could waterboarder.

509
00:32:01,080 --> 00:32:06,240
Speaker 1: She could not come up with And it's not indictment.

510
00:32:06,320 --> 00:32:12,320
Speaker 1: I'm not she she cannot imagine a worldview where someone

511
00:32:12,440 --> 00:32:17,440
Speaker 1: votes for Trump given the craziness from the swaying of

512
00:32:17,520 --> 00:32:21,120
Speaker 1: the music and everything in the last forty eight hours.

513
00:32:21,960 --> 00:32:29,400
Speaker 1: Take us inside a conversation with a coagent conservative who's

514
00:32:29,480 --> 00:32:30,720
Speaker 1: voting for.

515
00:32:30,840 --> 00:32:38,240
Speaker 4: Trump, and and explain as coherently as you can right

516
00:32:38,440 --> 00:32:42,200
Speaker 4: to that person what it is about the Democratic Party

517
00:32:43,520 --> 00:32:48,000
Speaker 4: and what it is about Kamala Harris that they find

518
00:32:48,360 --> 00:32:53,400
Speaker 4: so offensive that they will vote for Donald for Donald Trump,

519
00:32:53,600 --> 00:32:55,360
Speaker 4: and and.

520
00:32:55,520 --> 00:32:57,680
Speaker 2: Try to takeet the assignment.

521
00:32:57,640 --> 00:33:04,000
Speaker 1: If you, if you can, then the smugness right that

522
00:33:04,000 --> 00:33:07,440
Speaker 1: that person feels right from the judgment and the condemnation

523
00:33:07,600 --> 00:33:11,280
Speaker 1: of people who can't comprehend what it is that they

524
00:33:11,320 --> 00:33:17,680
Speaker 1: see at all, which which doesn't help convince them, uh whatsoever?

525
00:33:18,440 --> 00:33:20,920
Speaker 1: Well you think about that for a second. Let me

526
00:33:21,080 --> 00:33:24,440
Speaker 1: let me just at at a little bit of additional

527
00:33:24,480 --> 00:33:28,680
Speaker 1: framing by saying, I think that this is one of

528
00:33:28,720 --> 00:33:36,080
Speaker 1: the most mystifying elements and most absent from the conversation

529
00:33:37,160 --> 00:33:40,120
Speaker 1: if we lived in a country with forty two political parties.

530
00:33:41,520 --> 00:33:43,760
Speaker 1: It's really not a not a not a not an

531
00:33:43,800 --> 00:33:46,480
Speaker 1: important conversation I have. But given that given that we

532
00:33:46,520 --> 00:33:52,520
Speaker 1: have two and you look objectively at Trump, you see,

533
00:33:52,560 --> 00:33:59,480
Speaker 1: but that team is beating the other team in the

534
00:33:59,520 --> 00:34:05,560
Speaker 1: two team league, and the people that are losing to

535
00:34:05,720 --> 00:34:09,520
Speaker 1: the team that I think is fascistic and crazy seem

536
00:34:09,600 --> 00:34:13,560
Speaker 1: to have a real lack of awareness about what it

537
00:34:13,640 --> 00:34:19,479
Speaker 1: is that half the country sees that makes them lean

538
00:34:19,640 --> 00:34:26,239
Speaker 1: towards what I think is anathematic as opposed to the

539
00:34:26,360 --> 00:34:30,640
Speaker 1: side that holds itself out as as Tim Wall said,

540
00:34:31,200 --> 00:34:35,640
Speaker 1: they're the weirdo side, implying we're not so just. I

541
00:34:35,680 --> 00:34:43,239
Speaker 1: would love to hear you just extemporize about that. Those

542
00:34:43,320 --> 00:34:48,920
Speaker 1: people who can't sit Yeah.

543
00:34:47,280 --> 00:34:49,239
Speaker 2: Well, you know. I'm in Dallas, Texas.

544
00:34:49,760 --> 00:34:51,560
Speaker 3: I have a lot of friends, a lot of family

545
00:34:51,680 --> 00:34:55,000
Speaker 3: who will vote for Trump, who are Republican, and these

546
00:34:55,000 --> 00:34:58,440
Speaker 3: are the types of conversations I actually choose to avoid

547
00:34:58,480 --> 00:35:00,560
Speaker 3: them a lot of the time. But happen is this

548
00:35:00,560 --> 00:35:07,200
Speaker 3: stuff I hear good on the list. Abortion is a

549
00:35:07,239 --> 00:35:10,600
Speaker 3: big one. Harris hasn't said there's any point where she

550
00:35:10,600 --> 00:35:17,440
Speaker 3: supports limits on it. The cultural issues around sexuality and

551
00:35:17,520 --> 00:35:22,200
Speaker 3: gender are really triggering to a lot of people. There

552
00:35:22,239 --> 00:35:26,160
Speaker 3: are concerns that well, then we can talk more about this,

553
00:35:26,360 --> 00:35:30,719
Speaker 3: but Trump will end wars and pull us out of them,

554
00:35:30,760 --> 00:35:33,000
Speaker 3: and we should put a pin on that we've had

555
00:35:33,120 --> 00:35:36,640
Speaker 3: enough so appen in Afghanistan. We've had enough of this,

556
00:35:37,320 --> 00:35:40,759
Speaker 3: you know, we Harris will just kind of continue to

557
00:35:41,040 --> 00:35:43,000
Speaker 3: mesh us into global conflicts that.

558
00:35:43,040 --> 00:35:44,319
Speaker 2: Lead to an even bigger one.

559
00:35:45,400 --> 00:35:48,080
Speaker 3: There is again, I think it's getting a little tired

560
00:35:48,080 --> 00:35:49,920
Speaker 3: and not necessarily true, but there's a knee jerk reaction

561
00:35:50,000 --> 00:35:52,400
Speaker 3: that the Republican Party is better for economic growth and

562
00:35:52,480 --> 00:35:54,400
Speaker 3: the economy and jobs when you actually look at the

563
00:35:54,440 --> 00:35:55,600
Speaker 3: platforms this time around.

564
00:35:55,800 --> 00:35:57,719
Speaker 2: I think that's a hard case to make, but there's that.

565
00:35:58,880 --> 00:35:59,680
Speaker 2: And then Steve, you.

566
00:35:59,640 --> 00:36:03,320
Speaker 3: Know, I'm I'm an Anglican, I'm in the Christian community.

567
00:36:03,400 --> 00:36:05,640
Speaker 3: I think when you look at the support for Trump,

568
00:36:05,800 --> 00:36:10,640
Speaker 3: especially among evangelicals, White evangelicals.

569
00:36:09,760 --> 00:36:11,640
Speaker 2: In particular, there is.

570
00:36:13,120 --> 00:36:19,759
Speaker 3: Because Trump talks at times their language and has a

571
00:36:19,880 --> 00:36:23,239
Speaker 3: Bible embedded with the Constitution or whatever it is, God

572
00:36:23,239 --> 00:36:26,880
Speaker 3: Bless America Bible, there is a belief that all of

573
00:36:26,920 --> 00:36:32,479
Speaker 3: the bigger cultural forces that are kind of rooting against

574
00:36:33,160 --> 00:36:37,600
Speaker 3: Christianity and Evangelicals and traditional family values, whether that's marriage

575
00:36:37,840 --> 00:36:41,080
Speaker 3: or sanctity of life, whatever, that Trump will keep those

576
00:36:41,120 --> 00:36:44,840
Speaker 3: at bay as long as he's president, and that they

577
00:36:44,880 --> 00:36:46,640
Speaker 3: would look at the Hairris agenda and say, there's not

578
00:36:46,680 --> 00:36:53,000
Speaker 3: a single thing I agree with her on and you know,

579
00:36:53,560 --> 00:36:56,200
Speaker 3: on policy, I don't have anything in common with her.

580
00:36:56,840 --> 00:37:00,680
Speaker 3: And this is where the confusion is. And this says,

581
00:37:00,680 --> 00:37:02,480
Speaker 3: I think the lynch point of the whole thing. Even

582
00:37:02,480 --> 00:37:04,200
Speaker 3: if you put policy aside and say, what if there's

583
00:37:04,239 --> 00:37:06,480
Speaker 3: things that are bigger than policy, and that is, can

584
00:37:06,480 --> 00:37:10,279
Speaker 3: we have a peaceful transfer of power? I think for

585
00:37:10,360 --> 00:37:16,440
Speaker 3: reasons I don't understand, there remains incredible confusion around January

586
00:37:16,480 --> 00:37:20,400
Speaker 3: sixth and around the fact that Trump still cannot concede

587
00:37:20,480 --> 00:37:24,759
Speaker 3: that he lost that election. And so to me, that

588
00:37:24,920 --> 00:37:28,160
Speaker 3: is a hugely problematic. I think if you're still on

589
00:37:28,239 --> 00:37:30,640
Speaker 3: team Trump, you kind of look, you look past that

590
00:37:30,719 --> 00:37:33,239
Speaker 3: and say, there's nothing in the Harris agenda he's going

591
00:37:33,320 --> 00:37:35,800
Speaker 3: to lead. You know, he left office, what's the problem.

592
00:37:36,280 --> 00:37:37,920
Speaker 3: Kind of get him back in there and stop these

593
00:37:37,920 --> 00:37:40,680
Speaker 3: bigger cultural, social forces.

594
00:37:40,280 --> 00:37:43,759
Speaker 2: Coming against me and what I believe to my deepest core.

595
00:37:44,960 --> 00:37:45,640
Speaker 2: So I think that's the.

596
00:37:48,239 --> 00:37:48,399
Speaker 3: Man.

597
00:37:48,440 --> 00:37:51,400
Speaker 2: I don't know, that's your department, Steve. I just talked policy.

598
00:37:51,040 --> 00:37:54,080
Speaker 1: And I forgot about it.

599
00:37:56,280 --> 00:37:58,520
Speaker 2: Oh. I mean, I'm not a gut person.

600
00:37:58,520 --> 00:38:00,719
Speaker 3: I mean, the betting markets have Harris a slight lead,

601
00:38:00,760 --> 00:38:03,279
Speaker 3: But then the polls have been off the last two

602
00:38:03,280 --> 00:38:06,239
Speaker 3: times and have underestimated the Republican showing I don't know,

603
00:38:06,880 --> 00:38:07,720
Speaker 3: I have no idea.

604
00:38:07,800 --> 00:38:16,760
Speaker 1: Let's say let's say he loses eleven o'clock, eleven thirty.

605
00:38:18,480 --> 00:38:26,359
Speaker 1: I knew by midnight last time that Biden had it. Yeah,

606
00:38:26,760 --> 00:38:33,759
Speaker 1: let's say she wins. It's over by eleven thirty. Right,

607
00:38:33,800 --> 00:38:38,120
Speaker 1: it's over. It's over election night. And he comes out

608
00:38:38,719 --> 00:38:46,239
Speaker 1: and he makes his first allegation of fraud. Yeah, now again, Right,

609
00:38:46,320 --> 00:38:50,600
Speaker 1: we're moment, we're back to the river's edge. Right, who's

610
00:38:50,600 --> 00:38:58,520
Speaker 1: going to cross the river with him? Does? Let me?

611
00:38:58,680 --> 00:39:01,680
Speaker 1: Let me add to this scenario. Democrats take the House,

612
00:39:03,600 --> 00:39:05,560
Speaker 1: Republicans take the Senate.

613
00:39:08,280 --> 00:39:09,520
Speaker 2: Like scenario so far.

614
00:39:10,920 --> 00:39:14,240
Speaker 1: The likely scenario. And he comes out and he says

615
00:39:15,040 --> 00:39:22,000
Speaker 1: fraudulent election. Right, one of two things happens. There's a

616
00:39:22,360 --> 00:39:30,360
Speaker 1: deflation or everyone files them back across the river for

617
00:39:30,400 --> 00:39:35,080
Speaker 1: another round, for another uh, for another lap around the track.

618
00:39:35,680 --> 00:39:42,759
Speaker 1: Do you think it's more likely that the elected officials

619
00:39:42,760 --> 00:39:48,239
Speaker 1: of the party get behind stop the steal number two?

620
00:39:49,520 --> 00:39:57,400
Speaker 1: Or do you think that after the third election, he

621
00:39:57,560 --> 00:40:03,279
Speaker 1: clearly loses people in in the party to have you know,

622
00:40:03,400 --> 00:40:05,520
Speaker 1: and I say it to our judgment, though I do

623
00:40:05,719 --> 00:40:10,000
Speaker 1: judge them right if wound up where they where they are, uh,

624
00:40:10,160 --> 00:40:13,239
Speaker 1: that they say now we're done. What do you think

625
00:40:13,320 --> 00:40:14,919
Speaker 1: is the more likely of the two?

626
00:40:15,480 --> 00:40:19,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, neutral question, right, Steve, You know, I don't. I

627
00:40:19,200 --> 00:40:19,920
Speaker 2: think I think they.

628
00:40:22,560 --> 00:40:26,640
Speaker 3: Trump has done a remarkable ability to have the vast

629
00:40:26,640 --> 00:40:30,279
Speaker 3: majority of the publican party line up behind him.

630
00:40:30,640 --> 00:40:33,040
Speaker 2: And if he says election was stolen, and there's.

631
00:40:32,880 --> 00:40:36,799
Speaker 3: A couple of people who have random YouTube channels not

632
00:40:36,880 --> 00:40:39,240
Speaker 3: unlike this one or something, who were like it was stolen.

633
00:40:39,280 --> 00:40:42,359
Speaker 3: I saw so, and you know, hordes of people coming

634
00:40:42,400 --> 00:40:45,040
Speaker 3: into this poll this polling station didn't whatever.

635
00:40:45,120 --> 00:40:45,920
Speaker 1: What's going to happen?

636
00:40:46,480 --> 00:40:49,960
Speaker 3: Well, I think I think you see political violence. I

637
00:40:49,960 --> 00:40:51,440
Speaker 3: think you see a lot of confusion. I think you

638
00:40:51,480 --> 00:40:54,879
Speaker 3: do have people lining up behind Trump, not just like

639
00:40:55,200 --> 00:40:58,600
Speaker 3: one hundred, people like millions and millions and millions who

640
00:40:58,640 --> 00:41:01,480
Speaker 3: will believe that from said the election must and deed

641
00:41:01,520 --> 00:41:05,480
Speaker 3: have been stolen because he's saying it, and the Democrats

642
00:41:05,520 --> 00:41:08,799
Speaker 3: couldn't possibly stand that he would win. And I think

643
00:41:08,840 --> 00:41:12,920
Speaker 3: you have months of riot's confusion. It's really it's really

644
00:41:13,000 --> 00:41:14,719
Speaker 3: kind of awful. I don't even want to project. I

645
00:41:14,760 --> 00:41:17,719
Speaker 3: don't want to call it into being Steve I do.

646
00:41:18,400 --> 00:41:22,680
Speaker 1: If he loses, you have no doubt that he's going

647
00:41:22,760 --> 00:41:26,799
Speaker 1: to strike the match and he's gonna say that this

648
00:41:27,000 --> 00:41:31,279
Speaker 1: was stolen from me. I have no doubt about that whatsoever.

649
00:41:31,400 --> 00:41:35,400
Speaker 1: I mean, he's made it perfectly clear. I see no scenario,

650
00:41:35,600 --> 00:41:37,719
Speaker 1: and I say, and hold on, I just suppsed to say.

651
00:41:37,760 --> 00:41:39,879
Speaker 1: I get to say this from the prism of I've

652
00:41:39,880 --> 00:41:44,000
Speaker 1: actually placed a concession phone call for a defeated presidential candidate.

653
00:41:44,080 --> 00:41:44,200
Speaker 5: Right.

654
00:41:44,239 --> 00:41:47,080
Speaker 1: He will not do it. He will not concede the election.

655
00:41:48,480 --> 00:41:51,399
Speaker 1: He will not make the phone call. There will be

656
00:41:51,440 --> 00:41:55,120
Speaker 1: no scenario where a team goes to him and says

657
00:41:55,280 --> 00:41:58,920
Speaker 1: you are going to fall short. There's no evidence of fraud.

658
00:41:59,400 --> 00:42:02,959
Speaker 1: We can get the precincts. We can extrapolate this forward.

659
00:42:03,080 --> 00:42:08,640
Speaker 1: You will not be elected president because you will not

660
00:42:08,800 --> 00:42:11,640
Speaker 1: accumulate two hundred and seventy electoral votes. You're lose. I

661
00:42:11,719 --> 00:42:14,480
Speaker 1: had the conversation with John McKay, so it's not an

662
00:42:14,560 --> 00:42:18,720
Speaker 1: abstract P ten conversation. I've had this conversation with someone

663
00:42:18,800 --> 00:42:23,200
Speaker 1: in my life. I placed the phone call to David Pluff,

664
00:42:23,239 --> 00:42:26,080
Speaker 1: who put Barack Obama on the phone. I talked to

665
00:42:26,160 --> 00:42:30,840
Speaker 1: him and then handed the phone to John McCain. My

666
00:42:31,000 --> 00:42:35,120
Speaker 1: point is he will strike the match. You agree with that.

667
00:42:35,360 --> 00:42:37,440
Speaker 2: I like, give people the benefit of the doubt.

668
00:42:37,640 --> 00:42:40,880
Speaker 3: Okay, Trump and the people around him, But I have

669
00:42:41,040 --> 00:42:45,480
Speaker 3: not seen indications that he has people around him like

670
00:42:45,640 --> 00:42:48,800
Speaker 3: Pence last time who will tell him the truth.

671
00:42:49,200 --> 00:42:51,560
Speaker 2: And I have not seen any indication.

672
00:42:52,600 --> 00:42:57,120
Speaker 3: That he desires to lower the temperature in our country

673
00:42:57,440 --> 00:43:00,960
Speaker 3: and the results. But I think what's and what's broader

674
00:43:00,960 --> 00:43:04,920
Speaker 3: than That's even why him denying the election, because if

675
00:43:05,120 --> 00:43:08,680
Speaker 3: he should do so becomes such a powerful thing, is

676
00:43:08,760 --> 00:43:13,520
Speaker 3: because there is so much disorientation and confusion, and so many.

677
00:43:13,360 --> 00:43:15,640
Speaker 2: People will believe along with him because.

678
00:43:15,320 --> 00:43:19,520
Speaker 3: Of stories that they've heard or seen online that indeed

679
00:43:20,040 --> 00:43:23,320
Speaker 3: like it was. You know, this is not just people

680
00:43:23,600 --> 00:43:25,480
Speaker 3: pretended that I think they'll actually believe.

681
00:43:26,400 --> 00:43:29,000
Speaker 1: So I want to so, I want to, like, I

682
00:43:29,960 --> 00:43:33,759
Speaker 1: just want a good dig deeper on this, because this

683
00:43:33,920 --> 00:43:38,399
Speaker 1: first part is the speculative part. Right, what he's gonna do? Right,

684
00:43:38,440 --> 00:43:41,440
Speaker 1: You can't know. You can look at at past actions

685
00:43:41,480 --> 00:43:44,640
Speaker 1: as the prologue, but we don't know. I have I

686
00:43:44,680 --> 00:43:47,879
Speaker 1: have an opinion on that the second part of this, right,

687
00:43:48,000 --> 00:43:51,319
Speaker 1: is an observational aspect. Right. And so so we got

688
00:43:51,320 --> 00:43:55,360
Speaker 1: the match and then we're looking at the woodpile. And

689
00:43:55,719 --> 00:43:59,399
Speaker 1: what I said, is there any chance that that's wet wood,

690
00:44:00,200 --> 00:44:05,560
Speaker 1: that that the that the that that Americans and that

691
00:44:06,920 --> 00:44:10,920
Speaker 1: elected Republicans when he when he touches the match to

692
00:44:11,000 --> 00:44:14,000
Speaker 1: the wood, if he does it, they just goes out.

693
00:44:14,120 --> 00:44:16,200
Speaker 1: What you're saying, what I hear you saying is that

694
00:44:16,239 --> 00:44:19,359
Speaker 1: wood is dry, That wood is going to go up

695
00:44:19,360 --> 00:44:23,560
Speaker 1: if the match touches. That would because of all of

696
00:44:23,560 --> 00:44:25,560
Speaker 1: these factors you just went through, we're going to have

697
00:44:25,600 --> 00:44:26,560
Speaker 1: a chaotic period.

698
00:44:26,760 --> 00:44:29,040
Speaker 2: I think that's right. Let me tell you a story

699
00:44:29,160 --> 00:44:34,680
Speaker 2: about that. So on like a social.

700
00:44:34,440 --> 00:44:38,280
Speaker 3: Media Facebook group, right, a couple of people posted real people,

701
00:44:38,320 --> 00:44:40,839
Speaker 3: I think it's heard from some other people who might

702
00:44:40,840 --> 00:44:43,200
Speaker 3: not have been real people whatever, infiltrate kind of this

703
00:44:43,280 --> 00:44:46,279
Speaker 3: community social media group right down the road for me,

704
00:44:47,000 --> 00:44:50,160
Speaker 3: Ben say that the Venezuela gangs are coming and they're

705
00:44:50,160 --> 00:44:52,640
Speaker 3: coming for little girls and their moms, and they're coming

706
00:44:52,680 --> 00:44:56,000
Speaker 3: at this specific plaza which has a bunch of dance companies. Right,

707
00:44:57,000 --> 00:44:59,680
Speaker 3: No reports of this in the DLAs Morning news, no

708
00:45:00,000 --> 00:45:04,560
Speaker 3: police reports. Is totally made up, brings its way kind

709
00:45:04,560 --> 00:45:07,520
Speaker 3: of into this ecosystem and next thing you know, the

710
00:45:07,640 --> 00:45:11,719
Speaker 3: dance studio has hardened security, the parking lot has hardened security.

711
00:45:12,000 --> 00:45:14,520
Speaker 3: People aren't going to the target because they're scared of

712
00:45:14,520 --> 00:45:19,400
Speaker 3: the Venezuelan gangs. And I'm this happened last week in Dallas,

713
00:45:19,719 --> 00:45:23,080
Speaker 3: and I'm saying this because it's something that's totally untrue

714
00:45:23,400 --> 00:45:27,040
Speaker 3: that has been put into in your case, kind of

715
00:45:27,040 --> 00:45:30,120
Speaker 3: a kindling, and it lights and all of a sudden,

716
00:45:30,320 --> 00:45:33,040
Speaker 3: in real life we're having police officers and people again

717
00:45:33,080 --> 00:45:35,120
Speaker 3: responding to a threat that is not real.

718
00:45:35,719 --> 00:45:40,040
Speaker 2: And I think, to me, it was so sad even

719
00:45:40,080 --> 00:45:41,000
Speaker 2: talking to the dance.

720
00:45:40,800 --> 00:45:43,560
Speaker 3: Studio person that like, no, we know this isn't real,

721
00:45:43,560 --> 00:45:45,160
Speaker 3: but we have to do it because the parents wanted

722
00:45:45,160 --> 00:45:47,200
Speaker 3: to be because they read this. You know, it shows

723
00:45:47,280 --> 00:45:51,000
Speaker 3: how this world of fantasy comes into real life and

724
00:45:51,400 --> 00:45:54,240
Speaker 3: breaks havoc on small businesses and real people in security.

725
00:45:54,239 --> 00:45:56,840
Speaker 3: And that is such a small example because it was

726
00:45:56,880 --> 00:45:58,759
Speaker 3: a completely baseless thing.

727
00:45:59,520 --> 00:46:00,680
Speaker 2: But again, if a.

728
00:46:00,640 --> 00:46:03,240
Speaker 3: Few people have stories of things they really saw happen,

729
00:46:03,280 --> 00:46:07,200
Speaker 3: and people go to you know, to vote whatever, then

730
00:46:07,640 --> 00:46:08,800
Speaker 3: I do think it's really problem.

731
00:46:10,320 --> 00:46:17,120
Speaker 5: What do you say to the proposition that if you're like,

732
00:46:17,200 --> 00:46:19,800
Speaker 5: let's say, a Ted Cruz will who will call himself

733
00:46:19,840 --> 00:46:20,640
Speaker 5: a conservative?

734
00:46:21,040 --> 00:46:24,320
Speaker 3: Yeah, hard to put myself in the mind of Ted Cruz.

735
00:46:24,320 --> 00:46:27,480
Speaker 1: I was seeing if he's dead in line behind the

736
00:46:30,280 --> 00:46:35,360
Speaker 1: utterly concocted, stolen an election, which has as a consequence,

737
00:46:36,160 --> 00:46:41,760
Speaker 1: right that, so you're for installing the guy who lost

738
00:46:41,880 --> 00:46:45,879
Speaker 1: against the will of the American people as the head

739
00:46:45,920 --> 00:46:51,960
Speaker 1: of state, commander in chief, president of the world's oldest

740
00:46:52,000 --> 00:46:57,600
Speaker 1: constitutional republic. I mean when you think that through, doesn't

741
00:46:57,600 --> 00:47:00,200
Speaker 1: he lose the right to call himself a concern of it?

742
00:47:00,239 --> 00:47:05,759
Speaker 1: Of doesn't it hasn't that word lost all meaning? Right

743
00:47:05,920 --> 00:47:09,680
Speaker 1: for people who deny a result of an election, because

744
00:47:09,760 --> 00:47:14,080
Speaker 1: I can't there's no way if you if you ever

745
00:47:14,200 --> 00:47:16,680
Speaker 1: had the experience if you were with somebody on a

746
00:47:16,760 --> 00:47:21,000
Speaker 1: rooftop and that person was getting ready to jump, right,

747
00:47:21,080 --> 00:47:25,840
Speaker 1: and you're without without training, I don't know what to

748
00:47:25,960 --> 00:47:31,279
Speaker 1: say to the person other than if you jump, you

749
00:47:31,360 --> 00:47:35,799
Speaker 1: will die. You will die. Right. There's no scenario where

750
00:47:35,840 --> 00:47:44,200
Speaker 1: you jump and live, just reality. And and so there's

751
00:47:44,239 --> 00:47:47,960
Speaker 1: no way because this is like, this is the cornerstone

752
00:47:48,000 --> 00:47:50,600
Speaker 1: of the country. Right, we invented this way of life.

753
00:47:50,640 --> 00:47:53,760
Speaker 1: I mean, we may take it for granted completely and utterly,

754
00:47:53,840 --> 00:47:57,840
Speaker 1: but the idea that we picked the leaders as opposed

755
00:47:57,840 --> 00:48:02,640
Speaker 1: to the leaders either inheriting the people or capturing the people.

756
00:48:03,080 --> 00:48:07,040
Speaker 1: There's a relatively new concept in all of the story

757
00:48:07,080 --> 00:48:10,239
Speaker 1: of human history going going all the way back. And

758
00:48:10,280 --> 00:48:13,200
Speaker 1: I really like, so if you have a guy who

759
00:48:13,200 --> 00:48:15,319
Speaker 1: gets in there or a woman who gets in there

760
00:48:15,360 --> 00:48:18,040
Speaker 1: who wants to make the tax rate seventy five percent,

761
00:48:18,160 --> 00:48:20,000
Speaker 1: like I understand.

762
00:48:19,800 --> 00:48:23,360
Speaker 2: What the normal bounds of policy right in politics?

763
00:48:23,680 --> 00:48:27,600
Speaker 1: Right? You know, it sucks, you know I wouldn't like it,

764
00:48:27,680 --> 00:48:31,839
Speaker 1: But well, the country's going to endure. I don't the

765
00:48:31,960 --> 00:48:37,480
Speaker 1: society the civilization right if you were, if you were

766
00:48:37,480 --> 00:48:40,880
Speaker 1: to look at this from a conservative frame, and I

767
00:48:41,239 --> 00:48:44,560
Speaker 1: think I am a small sea conservative still, I think

768
00:48:44,600 --> 00:48:49,560
Speaker 1: Liz Cheney is. I think you are. But yeah, if

769
00:48:50,960 --> 00:48:57,040
Speaker 1: if the society, do we have one? I think we do.

770
00:48:57,160 --> 00:49:02,040
Speaker 1: There's an American society? Is there an American civilization that's unique,

771
00:49:02,760 --> 00:49:07,320
Speaker 1: that's worth preserving against all of the currents of world history?

772
00:49:07,360 --> 00:49:12,120
Speaker 1: I think that there is. And the cornerstone of it

773
00:49:12,200 --> 00:49:15,600
Speaker 1: is government of the people, by the people, for the people,

774
00:49:16,040 --> 00:49:21,880
Speaker 1: in the most sacred place in that chain deeply connected

775
00:49:21,960 --> 00:49:25,960
Speaker 1: to the concept of a rule of law is a

776
00:49:26,000 --> 00:49:29,640
Speaker 1: fidelity to an idea which holds you got to be

777
00:49:29,680 --> 00:49:36,000
Speaker 1: able to be prepared to lose an election with grace

778
00:49:37,360 --> 00:49:38,560
Speaker 1: or it all falls apart.

779
00:49:40,239 --> 00:49:42,960
Speaker 3: So I'm still stuck on role playing Ted Cruz. He

780
00:49:43,080 --> 00:49:46,000
Speaker 3: really got me with that one, Steve that I want

781
00:49:46,040 --> 00:49:50,759
Speaker 3: to talk about conservatism and the Republican Party. There's a

782
00:49:50,800 --> 00:49:55,600
Speaker 3: great book it's called The Right and attracts the history

783
00:49:55,719 --> 00:49:59,319
Speaker 3: of the GOP over the last hundred years. And what

784
00:49:59,640 --> 00:50:03,880
Speaker 3: I took away from that book was that the isolationism,

785
00:50:04,520 --> 00:50:08,200
Speaker 3: the protectionism, the nativism, all the stuff we're seeing right

786
00:50:08,239 --> 00:50:11,919
Speaker 3: now in certain parts of the Republican Party, they're not new.

787
00:50:12,160 --> 00:50:18,720
Speaker 2: They're in fact very old. It's the default setting. Okay.

788
00:50:18,800 --> 00:50:22,160
Speaker 3: So if I'm center right or small conservative, wherever you are,

789
00:50:22,160 --> 00:50:24,440
Speaker 3: that limited period. I was born in the Reagan area

790
00:50:24,600 --> 00:50:27,840
Speaker 3: era was like it wasn't it was not the norm.

791
00:50:28,200 --> 00:50:30,040
Speaker 2: It wasn't aberration of me.

792
00:50:30,280 --> 00:50:34,640
Speaker 3: Okay. So I think the Republican Party, it changes, hopefully

793
00:50:34,760 --> 00:50:37,799
Speaker 3: it will change again, but again, even one hundred years ago,

794
00:50:37,840 --> 00:50:40,920
Speaker 3: it was within the bounds to what you're saying of

795
00:50:41,120 --> 00:50:45,400
Speaker 3: policy differences ones that I really disagree with, but it

796
00:50:45,719 --> 00:50:50,360
Speaker 3: wasn't the peaceful transfer of power, and that being questioned

797
00:50:50,440 --> 00:50:51,960
Speaker 3: was not on the table. And that's where I think

798
00:50:51,960 --> 00:50:55,439
Speaker 3: there are just two different levels to the conversation. One

799
00:50:55,480 --> 00:50:58,360
Speaker 3: is the policies, be it what the Republican Party one

800
00:50:58,400 --> 00:51:00,680
Speaker 3: hundred years used to support, which I disagree with, what

801
00:51:00,840 --> 00:51:04,200
Speaker 3: Paris is proposing now, which I disagree with a lot

802
00:51:04,239 --> 00:51:07,080
Speaker 3: of disagreements and nuance on the policy, but to the

803
00:51:07,080 --> 00:51:12,600
Speaker 3: point that you're saying, the whole thing doesn't hold if

804
00:51:12,640 --> 00:51:13,920
Speaker 3: we cannot trust.

805
00:51:14,440 --> 00:51:16,800
Speaker 2: The institutions and have a peaceful transfer of power.

806
00:51:17,360 --> 00:51:19,319
Speaker 1: Last thing that I think is one of the most

807
00:51:19,400 --> 00:51:23,880
Speaker 1: underappreciated elements of this is that imagining a scenario where

808
00:51:24,000 --> 00:51:28,239
Speaker 1: Trump does win, we won't be living in the American

809
00:51:28,280 --> 00:51:31,040
Speaker 1: Reich in three weeks. Right. There's a lot of hyperbole

810
00:51:31,200 --> 00:51:35,520
Speaker 1: about that. We live in the most sophisticated society and

811
00:51:35,560 --> 00:51:39,800
Speaker 1: the history of human civilization, with ninety four thousand elected

812
00:51:39,960 --> 00:51:42,840
Speaker 1: entities of government, all of which have three lawyers working

813
00:51:42,880 --> 00:51:46,399
Speaker 1: for them. Right, so you know, four years is four

814
00:51:46,480 --> 00:51:49,040
Speaker 1: years is four years. I think there'll be a lot

815
00:51:49,080 --> 00:51:52,359
Speaker 1: of damage that Trump is able to do. I think

816
00:51:52,440 --> 00:51:56,000
Speaker 1: that a Republican center will repeal the filibuster within forty

817
00:51:56,000 --> 00:52:01,520
Speaker 1: eight hours. I think you'll have a judicial nominees and

818
00:52:01,640 --> 00:52:05,279
Speaker 1: some of the people who get get confirmed in that

819
00:52:05,480 --> 00:52:12,520
Speaker 1: environment will be will be brutal and dangerous. But the

820
00:52:12,560 --> 00:52:17,000
Speaker 1: one conversation that no one's had right e speculatively is

821
00:52:17,000 --> 00:52:21,960
Speaker 1: what happens to the Democratic Party if the Democratic Party

822
00:52:22,000 --> 00:52:26,359
Speaker 1: loses this election to Trump. And I'm just waiting right

823
00:52:26,960 --> 00:52:31,400
Speaker 1: for the first person three days after the election to

824
00:52:31,480 --> 00:52:36,600
Speaker 1: be first to say, shut up, everybody, it's Kamala Harris's

825
00:52:36,600 --> 00:52:39,560
Speaker 1: turn next time. She just didn't have enough time right

826
00:52:39,640 --> 00:52:42,879
Speaker 1: to get it to get it done this time. And and

827
00:52:42,760 --> 00:52:48,360
Speaker 1: so I think there's a real detachment from reality amongst

828
00:52:48,400 --> 00:52:51,600
Speaker 1: a lot of Democrats that I see on TV about

829
00:52:51,600 --> 00:52:57,440
Speaker 1: what happens in American politics if the Democratic Party fails

830
00:52:58,120 --> 00:53:03,160
Speaker 1: to be able to stop MAGA, Because yeah, I think

831
00:53:03,160 --> 00:53:06,319
Speaker 1: it may shatter American politics. I don't know why you

832
00:53:06,400 --> 00:53:10,440
Speaker 1: don't then have a real independent candidate in an election

833
00:53:11,000 --> 00:53:15,280
Speaker 1: in twenty twenty eight who runs against both parties.

834
00:53:15,600 --> 00:53:18,200
Speaker 3: I think the Democratic Party will have a choice to make,

835
00:53:18,239 --> 00:53:20,360
Speaker 3: and I think there will be some in the party

836
00:53:20,480 --> 00:53:24,160
Speaker 3: if they lose to who's a White House to Trump?

837
00:53:24,200 --> 00:53:26,520
Speaker 3: Who would say we need to be more progressive and

838
00:53:26,520 --> 00:53:28,600
Speaker 3: more extreme right. This is kind of the death spiral

839
00:53:28,680 --> 00:53:32,160
Speaker 3: of both parties reflecting a smaller and smaller and more

840
00:53:32,280 --> 00:53:38,320
Speaker 3: energized constituency. Or they could make the choice to really

841
00:53:38,360 --> 00:53:41,880
Speaker 3: be a big tent party. And you know, look, Harris

842
00:53:41,920 --> 00:53:46,480
Speaker 3: has Chaney on the trail with Liz Cheney. They're making nods,

843
00:53:47,280 --> 00:53:50,000
Speaker 3: but I wouldn't say they're making that many knots to

844
00:53:50,080 --> 00:53:53,400
Speaker 3: try to bring along half the country which is still

845
00:53:53,760 --> 00:53:56,239
Speaker 3: other than the Independence, which just still conservative and Republican,

846
00:53:56,719 --> 00:53:59,640
Speaker 3: and try to try to make this and everybody in

847
00:54:00,520 --> 00:54:03,840
Speaker 3: kind of show. I think they could have that moment

848
00:54:04,520 --> 00:54:07,120
Speaker 3: if they lost Trump. There certainly is a lot to

849
00:54:07,120 --> 00:54:10,880
Speaker 3: think about about what would happen if Trump won.

850
00:54:10,760 --> 00:54:13,600
Speaker 2: The election and what would actually happen.

851
00:54:13,600 --> 00:54:16,879
Speaker 3: And something we haven't even touched on is all that's

852
00:54:16,880 --> 00:54:20,240
Speaker 3: happening in the rest of the world with China, with Russia,

853
00:54:20,400 --> 00:54:25,719
Speaker 3: with Iran, Like we're not doing this in kind of

854
00:54:25,719 --> 00:54:28,319
Speaker 3: our own little bubble and experiment. What happens the rest

855
00:54:28,320 --> 00:54:30,480
Speaker 3: of wild impects us too, And so what does that

856
00:54:30,560 --> 00:54:32,760
Speaker 3: look like with Trump at the helm.

857
00:54:34,200 --> 00:54:34,960
Speaker 2: I don't think we know.

858
00:54:35,280 --> 00:54:41,640
Speaker 1: We have nineteen days to go for this monumental monumental choice.

859
00:54:41,800 --> 00:54:45,600
Speaker 1: You know, Harris right now has to take it. She's

860
00:54:45,640 --> 00:54:49,520
Speaker 1: in many ways the challenger in this race, and like

861
00:54:49,560 --> 00:54:53,520
Speaker 1: a heavyweight boxing match, the challenger has to knock out

862
00:54:53,560 --> 00:54:56,880
Speaker 1: the champ. You can't win it on the decision. And

863
00:54:57,480 --> 00:55:02,040
Speaker 1: I think the country is demanding two things of Kamala Harris.

864
00:55:02,800 --> 00:55:06,880
Speaker 1: They want to see her lay it out against Trump

865
00:55:07,160 --> 00:55:12,560
Speaker 1: in clear, convincing language, speaking to the whole country, not

866
00:55:12,719 --> 00:55:15,040
Speaker 1: a part of it. So this test is at hand

867
00:55:15,160 --> 00:55:20,279
Speaker 1: for her about whether she can convince the country that

868
00:55:20,320 --> 00:55:24,440
Speaker 1: she's ready to lead by dealing effectively in the context

869
00:55:24,760 --> 00:55:28,640
Speaker 1: of a campaign with what she rightly, in my view,

870
00:55:29,560 --> 00:55:34,480
Speaker 1: identifies as a very very grave threat, which is Donald

871
00:55:34,480 --> 00:55:37,640
Speaker 1: Trump to the to the future of the to the

872
00:55:37,640 --> 00:55:40,160
Speaker 1: future of the country. So it's on a razor's edge.

873
00:55:40,680 --> 00:55:44,400
Speaker 1: He could go either way. Either way, there's gonna be

874
00:55:44,400 --> 00:55:49,560
Speaker 1: a fantastical amount of drama after the election is decided,

875
00:55:49,800 --> 00:55:57,319
Speaker 1: and that's a departure, tragically from the American tradition. But

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00:55:57,880 --> 00:56:00,520
Speaker 1: we will see it play out. Before I let you go,

877
00:56:01,239 --> 00:56:03,240
Speaker 1: I did want to ask you about a book launch

878
00:56:03,320 --> 00:56:07,040
Speaker 1: you have coming your husband. You're obviously the better half,

879
00:56:07,080 --> 00:56:11,600
Speaker 1: Abby goes sag right. We have we have book number

880
00:56:11,680 --> 00:56:17,759
Speaker 1: three coming out. You want to talk about love to

881
00:56:17,880 --> 00:56:18,279
Speaker 1: It's out.

882
00:56:18,400 --> 00:56:21,520
Speaker 3: It's out in the States, it's out in Europe in

883
00:56:21,560 --> 00:56:24,160
Speaker 3: the winter. It's called The Seventh Floor. I'm married to

884
00:56:24,200 --> 00:56:27,440
Speaker 3: a former CIA officer. He writes five thrillers. This is

885
00:56:27,480 --> 00:56:29,439
Speaker 3: the third book. The first one is about the Least,

886
00:56:29,440 --> 00:56:31,400
Speaker 3: the second one is about Russia, and this one is

887
00:56:31,480 --> 00:56:35,520
Speaker 3: a domestic thriller. If there's a Russian mole inside the

888
00:56:35,560 --> 00:56:39,120
Speaker 3: Seventh Floor, which is like the c suite of the CIA.

889
00:56:39,480 --> 00:56:43,239
Speaker 1: These are great books, great beat reads, great for the stocking.

890
00:56:43,680 --> 00:56:45,000
Speaker 1: Buy the books.

891
00:56:46,440 --> 00:56:48,200
Speaker 2: And subscribe to my podcast.

892
00:56:49,200 --> 00:56:56,480
Speaker 1: Subscribe to Abby's podcast Beyond the Talking Points Read Abby

893
00:56:56,560 --> 00:56:59,680
Speaker 1: McClaskey and the Dallas Morning News. One of the smartest,

894
00:57:00,320 --> 00:57:03,439
Speaker 1: most principled and insightful people that I've gotten to work

895
00:57:03,480 --> 00:57:07,799
Speaker 1: with over my career. I really appreciate the conversation. I

896
00:57:07,840 --> 00:57:13,520
Speaker 1: think it's where we're just at this monumental moment in

897
00:57:13,680 --> 00:57:21,720
Speaker 1: the country, where this choice at hand is one where

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00:57:23,000 --> 00:57:27,640
Speaker 1: this time, after many, many, many many cycles of people

899
00:57:27,680 --> 00:57:32,080
Speaker 1: saying this is the most important election ever, whatever this

900
00:57:32,120 --> 00:57:39,720
Speaker 1: one yields, there will be consequences from it that real

901
00:57:39,840 --> 00:57:49,840
Speaker 1: people will really feel. And if Donald Trump tries to

902
00:57:49,960 --> 00:57:55,439
Speaker 1: do what he has made his singular promise, it will

903
00:57:55,480 --> 00:57:59,960
Speaker 1: reorder American life, and we talked about it in different

904
00:58:00,440 --> 00:58:03,840
Speaker 1: but I really appreciate the conversation. It's not one that

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00:58:03,920 --> 00:58:05,000
Speaker 1: a lot of people are having.

906
00:58:05,280 --> 00:58:06,280
Speaker 2: It's having me, Steve.

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00:58:06,720 --> 00:58:10,920
Speaker 1: Thank you, Havy. I'm Steve Schmidt. This is the warning

908
00:58:11,080 --> 00:58:14,440
Speaker 1: and I invite you to join. Subscribe on our substack,

909
00:58:14,600 --> 00:58:21,320
Speaker 1: on our YouTube channel, follow us. Welcome to the community.