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Speaker 1: Ben Higgins, and Ashley I bring you Infamous. Sometimes roses

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Speaker 1: are red flags. Hey everyone, welcome back to the almost

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Speaker 1: of this podcast. Today is another episode of Infamous and

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Speaker 1: we're doing this. This is maybe the most infamous person

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Speaker 1: that's ever been on the show, Courtney Robertson. Courtney, it's

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Speaker 1: you and me today. We're gonna have a little girl

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Speaker 1: chat about your skinny dipping, about you possibly cheating on Ben,

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Speaker 1: all the tabloid covers that you were on. We are

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Speaker 1: so excited to have you on to the long time

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Speaker 1: Almost Famous listeners. Courtney, as you guys know, has been

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Speaker 1: on the show like I feel like once a year

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Speaker 1: or so. So of course we have covered some of

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Speaker 1: this before, but we wanted to get even deeper on

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Speaker 1: the past with you.

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Speaker 2: Wow, I love it. We're hot out the gate. Love

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Speaker 2: skinny Dipping, Still skinny Dip to this day. I always

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Speaker 2: love to join you. I think Ben's off gallivanting or.

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Speaker 1: He's like just getting back from Italy's amazing that he

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Speaker 1: had his break I had my break up before him.

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Speaker 1: So yeah, coot, let's go all the way back to

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Speaker 1: twenty eleven. Were you a fan of the show before

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Speaker 1: you auditioned you know.

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Speaker 2: I wasn't a major Bachelor fan, but I watched loosely

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Speaker 2: like I saw like I saw Ben's finale, and that's

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Speaker 2: when the night that I signed up because obviously Ashley

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Speaker 2: didn't pick him and I had been dating in LA

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Speaker 2: and I was like, oh, this guy's cute, he's a

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Speaker 2: wine maker, he's ready to get married. And but I

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Speaker 2: had seen a little bit of like Ali Fedotowski season,

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Speaker 2: but just loosely watched. I wasn't like a you know, super.

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Speaker 1: Fan, okay, and then how did you audition?

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Speaker 2: So that night I applied the night of Ben and

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Speaker 2: Ashley Aberts finale. I had just gone through a recent

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Speaker 2: breakup and my sister was a massive fan, like she

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Speaker 2: did viewing parties. So I went online. I submitted like

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Speaker 2: a couple modeling photos. They wanted like a video, and

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Speaker 2: I was like, you know, I had some wine, I

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Speaker 2: was going or a breakup, and I was like, let's

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Speaker 2: just see. I almost like forgot that. I applied and

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Speaker 2: they called me, like I want to say, like two

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Speaker 2: days later. And I lived in Santa Monica at the time.

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Speaker 2: Their offices NCK was like right down the street, so

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Speaker 2: they're like, can you come in. I was like, whoa,

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Speaker 2: this is like happening quick.

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Speaker 1: Okay, So then did you just get to be a

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Speaker 1: shoe in? Would they meet you? And they're They're like,

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Speaker 1: you're in.

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Speaker 2: Pretty much yeah, But I was like very hesitant. I

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Speaker 2: was like, wow, this is like I just thought it

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Speaker 2: would be like fun to do apply online. And my

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Speaker 2: whole thing was, you know, it could have been Ben

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Speaker 2: or the other guy I think his name was Ryan,

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Speaker 2: the solar energy guy. And I was like very particular,

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Speaker 2: like I'm signing up to meet Ben, which I don't

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Speaker 2: think a lot of people know, and they couldn't really

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Speaker 2: tell me if it was him. I think he was

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Speaker 2: in talks or whatnot. But I actually backed out and

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Speaker 2: it was I had signed the contracts, I had done

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Speaker 2: all the psychic val all that stuff. I was like,

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Speaker 2: this is why, like I don't know if I want

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Speaker 2: to go through with this. And I backed out. And

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Speaker 2: then they called me the next day and they said,

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Speaker 2: we just want to let you know. We're not telling

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Speaker 2: a lot of people this, but it is going to

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Speaker 2: be Ben, okay.

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Speaker 1: And then then you were like all right, I'm back

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Speaker 1: on pretty much.

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Speaker 2: They said just go meet him night one. We think

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Speaker 2: you two are really going to hit it off? If

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Speaker 2: you don't, you can leave Night one like, no harm,

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Speaker 2: no foul. Little did I know? You can't just leave?

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Speaker 2: It's not it's not And I didn't want to because

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Speaker 2: once I met him, I was like, Oh, he's he

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Speaker 2: We really had like a spark.

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Speaker 1: Did you guys the forest in Prison Rows?

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Speaker 2: No, Lindsay Cox did.

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Speaker 1: She was the runner up.

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Speaker 2: I hate to say that.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a weird term for this show.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, she came riding in on the horse. I mean

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Speaker 2: who of course he gave her the first impression Rose,

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Speaker 2: but she was also really great.

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Speaker 1: First, you had hesitance. Why why were you so hesitant?

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Speaker 2: You know, I didn't watch a ton of reality TV,

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Speaker 2: and you know I had dated a variety of actors

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Speaker 2: and I had a long term relief the.

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Speaker 1: Drink, which you document in your book.

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Speaker 2: Jesse Metcalf and you we're on and off for a

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Speaker 2: long time.

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Speaker 1: You had a type dark hair, olive skin, light eyes.

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Speaker 2: Oh yeah, dark hair, light eyes. I think Ben was

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Speaker 2: the first brown eyed guy I'd ever dated. Actually, fun fact,

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Speaker 2: but I actually hung out with Adrian before I left

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Speaker 2: for filming, and like, I was just kind of single

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Speaker 2: and I had seen Jesse again, but he was still

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Speaker 2: kind of pulling his same shenanigans, and I called him

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Speaker 2: to tell him I was doing the show. He was

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Speaker 2: not happy, but I just was like, what I'm doing

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Speaker 2: isn't working. Like I was twenty turning twenty eight, I

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Speaker 2: was starting to really think about wanting a family, and

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Speaker 2: I just thought, why not, let's mix it up. I

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Speaker 2: was having the best modeling career year of my life,

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Speaker 2: and I had a anyway, I won't bore you with

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Speaker 2: those details, but I just wanted to try something new,

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Speaker 2: and little did I know that it would completely change.

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Speaker 2: Like the trajectory of my life.

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Speaker 1: With Jesse Metcalf, where you see it reason enough that

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Speaker 1: you had to tell him? Or is it just kind

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Speaker 1: of a courtesy?

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Speaker 2: No? Not serious?

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Speaker 1: Yeah at all?

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Speaker 2: I meant no, no at point. I mean, he took

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Speaker 2: me to the Emmys. We had been on and off

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Speaker 2: for years, Okay, you know he Yeah, as far as

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Speaker 2: far as that goes, I was more of a courtesy

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Speaker 2: because he was in the public eye and I knew

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Speaker 2: that there were pictures of us online and when you

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Speaker 2: do those questionnaires they make you write your ex's names down.

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Speaker 2: I specifically left him out like I don't want you know,

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Speaker 2: but when I called him to tell him I was

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Speaker 2: doing it, Like we had hung out a few times

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Speaker 2: in the in the recent months, and he's like, Courtney,

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Speaker 2: don't do it. Can I come over? This guy's gonna

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Speaker 2: pick you.

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Speaker 1: And yeah, he didn't want you to do it because

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Speaker 1: he didn't want you to get picked and then he

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Speaker 1: would have had like to deal with the emotion of it.

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Speaker 2: Maybe, I mean, but I was so sick of like

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Speaker 2: we had been hanging out and then like at the time,

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Speaker 2: I think it was TMZ or I forget the news site,

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Speaker 2: Like we had hung out and like things were going

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Speaker 2: really well, he showed up at my gym. I lived

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Speaker 2: in San Monica. He was in Beverly Hills and he's like, ah,

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Speaker 2: like I've been hoping to run into you. I'm like,

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Speaker 2: you're literally at my gym like he had just gone

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Speaker 2: like was going through a breakup. Like I mean, like

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Speaker 2: there was like some connection there that we did for

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Speaker 2: a long time. And and then like two days later,

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Speaker 2: he's on DMZ like making out with some girl in

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Speaker 2: Venice Beach and I was like, that's it, Like I

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Speaker 2: can't get jerked around by this guy. Anymore. Yeah, So

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Speaker 2: I was like, this guy looks normal, he's a wine maker.

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Speaker 2: I love wine. Hey, why not, like, let's try something new?

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Speaker 2: And you know we did. I mean we were together

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Speaker 2: for a year, we really hit it off. But I

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Speaker 2: I'm glad I did it. I think that's the question

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Speaker 2: I get asked the most is like, do you regret

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Speaker 2: doing the show after we broke up? And I didn't

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Speaker 2: anticipate how bad the backlash would be and even just

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Speaker 2: the skinny dipping and being slush At the time, I

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Speaker 2: definitely regretted it. I was like, man, like I lost

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Speaker 2: my privacy. But now at forty two, I'm so glad

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Speaker 2: I did it. I'm married with three kids, life is

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Speaker 2: pretty normal.

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Speaker 1: So you come across to me and always have as

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Speaker 1: not always have on the show, but in person as

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Speaker 1: a girl's girl, you're very easy to talk to. You're

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Speaker 1: just like truly sweet, and on the show you couldn't be.

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Speaker 1: You couldn't have been further from as far as what

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Speaker 1: we saw on TV. What was going on, just like

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Speaker 1: starting at week one with you and the other women,

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Speaker 1: was their tension? Did you think that you had villainous behavior?

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Speaker 1: Paint a picture of how it was wall filming versus

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Speaker 1: how it was when you watched it back.

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Speaker 2: So night one was wild. It's like you're filming till

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Speaker 2: four am. I'm like, let me just get there, let

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Speaker 2: me see if I like him. I asked production if

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Speaker 2: I could be the first or last out at the

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Speaker 2: because I knew in casting that that's important. You don't

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Speaker 2: want to get lost in the shuffle. So I was

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Speaker 2: the last out of the limo. They when they aired it,

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Speaker 2: it didn't play like that.

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Speaker 1: They didn't.

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Speaker 2: They just kind of threw me in the middle. So

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Speaker 2: I got into the house a little bit later and

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Speaker 2: I walk in and I like, look at everybody's sitting there.

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Speaker 2: And I come in and I instantly like felt like

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Speaker 2: I could kind of read the room just from just

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Speaker 2: who I am. But I remember talking to specifically one girl,

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Speaker 2: Casey B who was at the end, who was the

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Speaker 2: one that famously came back in Switzerland, and was like, right,

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Speaker 2: you know, they always at that point in time, they

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Speaker 2: used to do that a lot. And I just was

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Speaker 2: like trying to make conversation with people, and you have

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Speaker 2: producers like grabbing you, like, oh, there's playing soccer out front,

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Speaker 2: like go do this, And I was just like trying

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Speaker 2: to wrap my brain around it. Hydrate up, eat, you know,

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Speaker 2: just stay calm in the setting. And I talked to

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Speaker 2: her and I said, so, what do you do for work?

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Speaker 2: And She's like, I'm not gonna tell you that. Like

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Speaker 2: she actually like there were girls that wouldn't even talk

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Speaker 2: to me, and so I just like, I'm like first

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Speaker 2: impressions and a couple of people rubbed me the wrong way.

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Speaker 2: I instantly bonded with Casey Steamer. We are still best

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Speaker 2: friends to this day. She tried to stick up for

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Speaker 2: me at the Women Tell All, but it just it

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Speaker 2: happened very quickly, and I kind of know where it turned.

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Speaker 2: We didn't stay in the mansion. We went to Sonoma,

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Speaker 2: and it happened because I got the second one on

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Speaker 2: one date. And once I got that one on one date,

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Speaker 2: it just everything shifted in the house and I heard

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Speaker 2: them talking about me. Producers were telling me they were

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Speaker 2: talking badly about me. Uh And something that wasn't shown

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Speaker 2: is Lindsay Cox and I like we actually really got

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Speaker 2: along really well. And there was a moment where it

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Speaker 2: was like late at night and I was tired and

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Speaker 2: I kind of like snipped at her and I woke

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Speaker 2: up in the morning and I pulled her aside and

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Speaker 2: I was like, I'm so sorry, Like I was exhausted

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Speaker 2: last night. So there was just I don't know if

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Speaker 2: I'm answering this properly, but are It was like it

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Speaker 2: was just a lot to navigate, and especially when people

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Speaker 2: off camera, like I didn't like the way they treated

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Speaker 2: producers but a lawn and who you know. Obviously he

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Speaker 2: always said like, your personality doesn't really translate on this show. Okay,

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Speaker 2: So I don't know. I do know that I was sassy.

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Speaker 2: I went into it like, Okay, now I really like him,

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Speaker 2: and now there's twenty girls here and I have to

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Speaker 2: just kind of like go through this.

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Speaker 1: So when you were shooting, did you know you're gonna

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Speaker 1: be the villain? Pretty much?

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Speaker 2: Not at all?

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Speaker 1: Oh really, even though Alann would have said stuff like

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Speaker 1: that and the girls were talking about you, that.

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Speaker 2: Was more towards the end, and that's when I started

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Speaker 2: catching on, like, oh my gosh, there's a narrative here,

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Speaker 2: like I might have said winning once after like this thing.

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Speaker 1: Because your big thing was that, like you kind of

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Speaker 1: took Charlie Sheen's at the time of the time.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, skinny diipping and I was like on a

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Speaker 2: high and it felt so good and yeah, but yeah, no,

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Speaker 2: it just it was an awkward thing to go through

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Speaker 2: and there were times where I almost left for sure.

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Speaker 2: I was like, I don't know if this is worth it.

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Speaker 2: When they had Sean Tell show up, I was like,

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Speaker 2: this is crazy, Like what did I get myself into?

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Speaker 2: But I watched the first episode. I had a viewing party.

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Speaker 2: I had friends over and they showed my like package,

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Speaker 2: my intro, and that was the first time that I thought,

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Speaker 2: oh boy, I'm in trouble. It looks like they're going

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Speaker 2: to make me the villain.

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Speaker 1: This is like a little bit of an outdated type

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Speaker 1: of comment. I suppose. Obviously you get cast on the Bachelor.

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Speaker 1: Everybody's pretty. You were model pretty. You were like a

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Speaker 1: model that was working. Do you think that you carried yourself?

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Speaker 1: First off, I mean there could have there. I was

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Speaker 1: assuming there was a lot of feelings of being threatened

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Speaker 1: just because you're so stunning. And secondly, you probably carred

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Speaker 1: yourself with confidence, just like knowing that you have a look,

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Speaker 1: you know.

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Speaker 2: I I mean the girls would say things to me like, oh,

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Speaker 2: she's a model. They called me the model and this

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Speaker 2: and that I kind of wish because I did have

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Speaker 2: my real estate license at the time. I didn't lead

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Speaker 2: with that because it didn't do me any favors whatsoever.

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Speaker 2: But and that's why I was like trying to talk

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Speaker 2: to people, like what do you do? Connect and like

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Speaker 2: that's how you connect with people, and people weren't trying

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Speaker 2: to get to know me, and I was just like, Okay, well,

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Speaker 2: this is just a weird environment. Like I'm going to

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Speaker 2: deal with that. But I went into it, like you know,

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Speaker 2: I've been on sets I've been modeling.

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Speaker 1: For since I was suitable environment.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, Like my producer that I worked with was always laughing,

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Speaker 2: like I had like my makeup bag on the side,

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Speaker 2: like you know, like I was constantly touching myself up

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Speaker 2: because you're filming constantly. And I don't know if you

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Speaker 2: ever experienced that, Ashley, but you know you could, like

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Speaker 2: some people look pretty bad at them in the night

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Speaker 2: because I have a little.

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Speaker 1: Like modeling little vag too, you know, and because they

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Speaker 1: don't let you carry around behind the plant. Yeah exactly.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, but yeah, I definitely think I had the confidence,

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Speaker 2: especially more so back then, because I really felt like

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Speaker 2: I had nothing to lose. Like I was like, I

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Speaker 2: can just go back to life and let's see if

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Speaker 2: this works out. But I've always been pretty competitive and

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Speaker 2: always my mom was always like be a leader, not

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Speaker 2: a follower. And as soon as the girls started like

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Speaker 2: saying things to me, whether it be on or off camera,

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Speaker 2: I really kind of tried to stick up for myself,

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Speaker 2: and then I realized that wasn't working. It was just

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Speaker 2: it was just a mess.

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Speaker 1: Let's talk about the skinny dipping. When did that happen?

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Speaker 1: Was at mid season?

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Speaker 2: Oh, the skinny dipping happened in Puerto Rico. That was

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Speaker 2: probably about mid season. It was the second to last

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Speaker 2: location before overnights. Okay, I'm sorry hometowns. And he knew

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Speaker 2: that was going to happen. I think that that's the

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Speaker 2: common misconception is he acts so surprised when.

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Speaker 1: Because they were like, she might want to do something

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Speaker 1: fun with you in the water. He knew.

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Speaker 2: We talked about it the night before and the way

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Speaker 2: it aired and like that was like the promo on

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Speaker 2: Good Morning America, and but we had talked about it

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Speaker 2: at the end of a group date the night before

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Speaker 2: in Puerto Rico, but nobody knew until that aired. The

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Speaker 2: girls didn't know. Like I made it very clear that like,

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Speaker 2: if I was going to do that, I didn't want

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Speaker 2: the girls to know because that would have just made

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Speaker 2: it so much worse for me. So I stole a

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Speaker 2: little bit of time and out there he told me like,

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Speaker 2: it's you. Yeah, it's you know. We didn't have mics on.

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Speaker 1: The best place to say anything on the show is

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Speaker 1: out in the ocean because they can't boom you.

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Speaker 2: And they were like, come on in. They kept trying

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Speaker 2: to get us, and We're like, we're not coming in.

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Speaker 2: You know. It was like probably the most fun I

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Speaker 2: had on the show. Looking back, I probably would probably

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Speaker 2: would do it again, but I didn't realize in the

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Speaker 2: moment that it would be so controversial.

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Speaker 1: Did you guys have sex out there?

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Speaker 2: It was like a little bit of this, a little

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Speaker 2: bit of that.

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Speaker 1: That's what I thought of it.

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Speaker 2: The waves were pretty there was a little bit of

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Speaker 2: a lot of waves going on, and but yeah, I

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Speaker 2: mean I got to, you know, kind of.

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Speaker 1: Her the car. Yeah yeah, okay, When so you knew

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Speaker 1: that it was gonna be you, then, how did that

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Speaker 1: make you feel the entire rest of the season.

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Speaker 2: Confident?

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Speaker 1: Yeah? So probably even more villainous.

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Speaker 2: And also so the drama on my season was this

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Speaker 2: girl Emily, who went to him like location three and

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Speaker 2: was like, she's not the same as you. She just

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Speaker 2: she They held her right where we were talking, and

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Speaker 2: so I could see why she was triggered that night.

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Speaker 2: Maybe she had a little booze. We were kissing and

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Speaker 2: we were talking, and so they had her like waiting

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Speaker 2: to talk to him next, and so I think that's

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Speaker 2: what set her off. And then she went and talked

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Speaker 2: to him, and she's like, we don't we don't think

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Speaker 2: she spoke for the everybody. I guess, like, we don't

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Speaker 2: think that she's the same way around you as she is.

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Speaker 1: That's right, that narrative.

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Speaker 2: So that was like the where the everything shifted and

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Speaker 2: she was trying to rally everybody and people were like

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Speaker 2: we like her. It was like who do we? And

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Speaker 2: then before the week of the skinny dipping, she had

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Speaker 2: done it again, Like he kept saying like, hey, just

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Speaker 2: knock it off, like let me deal with that, and

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Speaker 2: she kept going to him and like every time she

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Speaker 2: like got time with him, she would talk badly about me,

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Speaker 2: which I think is so bad on any reality show

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Speaker 2: when you're trying to connect with the lead. Yeah, and

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Speaker 2: out there. I just said, I just want you to

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Speaker 2: know I don't know what she's saying, but I can't

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Speaker 2: stand her and she has been pretty nasty to me

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Speaker 2: and I want her gone.

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Speaker 1: That's awesome. That was you. That was that was you

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Speaker 1: to him?

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, Hello, It's Daniels Right or Strong and Wilfridell from

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Speaker 3: Podmeats World and we're bringing you Viva last content. That's right,

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Speaker 3: we are back in Las Vegas, the city of Sin

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Speaker 3: and giving the people what they want, a full week

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Speaker 3: of Y two K content.

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Speaker 1: Wait, we're back in Vegas.

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Speaker 4: Tell me why?

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Speaker 3: Well, for the Backstreet Boys residency, it's sphere.

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Speaker 1: Of course, we.

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Speaker 5: Sat down with Kevin Richardson and Ajmclean just minutes before

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Speaker 5: they took the stage, and our very own Wilfridell basically

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Speaker 5: became the newest member of the band boy band Please.

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Speaker 3: Plus, the man who has the longest running comedy show

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Speaker 3: on the strip joins us and gets his props.

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Speaker 1: It's Carrot Top Baby, And finally we all l O

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Speaker 1: V e her.

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Speaker 6: Ashley Simpson Ross joins us to talk about her upcoming

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Speaker 6: sold out Vegas residency.

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Speaker 3: It's a full week of nostalgic interviews you don't want

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Speaker 3: to miss.

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Speaker 5: Listen to Podmeats World on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,

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Speaker 5: or wherever you get your podcasts.

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Speaker 6: From executive producers Ben High and Ashley Iikeinetti. This is

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Speaker 6: Famously Available. You'll meet our fabulous single women that you

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Speaker 6: may be familiar with already, Deanna Poppus, Mercedes Norfolk plus

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Speaker 6: Stay tuned as things will ultimately get golden. Listen to

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Speaker 6: Famously Available on America's number one podcast network, iHeart follow

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Speaker 6: Famously Available, and start listening on the free iHeartRadio app today.

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Speaker 1: What was your relationship with production because you made a

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Speaker 1: comment about what Alan told you. You said that you

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Speaker 1: didn't like it when girls would treat them badly. How

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Speaker 1: did you What was your relationship with.

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Speaker 2: I left and I had a couple producers that I

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Speaker 2: had it out with where I felt like tricked and

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Speaker 2: I said, like I can't work with that person. Like

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Speaker 2: specifically in Panama, they said Ben's waiting for you in

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Speaker 2: the pool. Go get you have to get your swimsuit

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Speaker 2: on it. This girl and I go and I get

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Speaker 2: in the pool and I'm like, I'm literally walking behind

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Speaker 2: him having one on time with Jamie Otis, who is

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Speaker 2: now married at first sight, but I was like, tricks.

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Speaker 1: Was that the kiss moment with them?

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Speaker 2: It was that night they began to.

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Speaker 1: Kiss moment because she said like you don't kiss well

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Speaker 1: or something like that, which is so funny.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and she like ripped, well, I have had her on.

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Speaker 2: She's like, I didn't rip my dress, but the dress

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Speaker 2: but they put that in. But little things like that

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Speaker 2: where I was just like, ah, we just don't jive,

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Speaker 2: or you know, they're trying to get me to say

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Speaker 2: winning again or this and that. But I had really

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Speaker 2: good relationships with like I don't know if you want

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Speaker 2: me to say names, but like Bennett alone, Pete's Scletar,

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Speaker 2: it was a different.

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Speaker 1: The good ones. The good ones so like you would

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Speaker 1: have fun with them in the interview room. Yes, I

410
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Speaker 1: so much of your quote villainous behavior was in the

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Speaker 1: interview room because you were probably just like having a

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Speaker 1: good time. This is why I also.

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Speaker 2: Hated doing the itms they constantly were pulling. I mean

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Speaker 2: I would say, what do you want me to say?

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Speaker 2: I got to the point where it's like question torture,

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Speaker 2: Like you're asking me the same question three different ways,

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Speaker 2: like what do you want me to say? And I'll

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Speaker 2: just put it in my own words?

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Speaker 1: Interesting, Okay, Yeah, But.

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Speaker 2: I mean I'm still good friends. Like I just was

421
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Speaker 2: reaching out to a lawn recently. I'm actually getting ready

422
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Speaker 2: to go film another show and I was picking his

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Speaker 2: brain about it. But I trust him, I really do we.

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Speaker 2: I mean we lived across the street from each other

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Speaker 2: for a couple of years and had a really deep bond.

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Speaker 2: But after the show, I had that like what most

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Speaker 2: contestants have where it's like it's airing and you're like,

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Speaker 2: this isn't how I thought it would be betrayed, And

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Speaker 2: I think for me it's different because I was engaged

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Speaker 2: to him and people saw that we had a real

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Speaker 2: connection and it was affecting our relationship while it was

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Speaker 2: airing out in real time. Alan was a huge help

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Speaker 2: trying to talk to Ben, trying to be like, hey,

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Speaker 2: like you know her, but like it goes more to

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Speaker 2: the editing.

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Speaker 1: Yes, yes, So what would you well, I want to

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Speaker 1: talk about You're engagement first. So you wore this amazing

438
00:21:09,280 --> 00:21:13,320
Speaker 1: black dress with the long black gloves, Ashley, would you

439
00:21:13,400 --> 00:21:16,960
Speaker 1: call that amazing? See? Actually I would call that amazing

440
00:21:17,000 --> 00:21:20,560
Speaker 1: because it because it was so much different than normal.

441
00:21:20,680 --> 00:21:22,480
Speaker 1: Do you think that they were trying to play into

442
00:21:22,520 --> 00:21:23,840
Speaker 1: your villainous character.

443
00:21:24,440 --> 00:21:26,480
Speaker 2: I think they dressed me like Corella de Ville.

444
00:21:26,720 --> 00:21:29,119
Speaker 1: Okay, that's what I mean, but like, also, you looked

445
00:21:29,160 --> 00:21:30,400
Speaker 1: so freaking bomb.

446
00:21:31,000 --> 00:21:33,840
Speaker 2: I was like, more, it was freezing in Switzerland where

447
00:21:33,840 --> 00:21:37,159
Speaker 2: we were staying in Sarmott, but they helicoptered me in

448
00:21:37,359 --> 00:21:40,600
Speaker 2: on top of like so you know, the matta horn

449
00:21:40,720 --> 00:21:42,840
Speaker 2: was in the background. But it was like actually hot

450
00:21:42,880 --> 00:21:46,080
Speaker 2: that day. But that's why I had these black leather

451
00:21:46,200 --> 00:21:49,720
Speaker 2: gloves on that just went upstairs and they had put

452
00:21:49,720 --> 00:21:53,000
Speaker 2: me in this like white cape. And had I known,

453
00:21:53,119 --> 00:21:56,600
Speaker 2: I even went to Carrie Fetman the Silas and I

454
00:21:56,680 --> 00:21:56,920
Speaker 2: was like.

455
00:21:56,920 --> 00:22:00,000
Speaker 1: Who only picks out your last dress? Yeah.

456
00:22:00,080 --> 00:22:02,280
Speaker 2: I walked into the room. I know. I went first

457
00:22:02,640 --> 00:22:05,439
Speaker 2: and there were like four dresses on a bed and

458
00:22:05,520 --> 00:22:07,480
Speaker 2: I walked in. I go, Lindsay's gonna pick that one.

459
00:22:07,520 --> 00:22:10,639
Speaker 2: It was navy blue, like poofy or something. I was like,

460
00:22:11,160 --> 00:22:14,040
Speaker 2: that was the best one for me, the black one

461
00:22:14,680 --> 00:22:16,919
Speaker 2: out of all. But I was like, is this it? Like?

462
00:22:17,040 --> 00:22:20,240
Speaker 2: Had I known, I would have probably packed, But I

463
00:22:20,760 --> 00:22:23,000
Speaker 2: didn't know. I thought I might leave night one and

464
00:22:23,040 --> 00:22:28,040
Speaker 2: he's like, I'm like, can you go to Paris and dress?

465
00:22:28,920 --> 00:22:35,800
Speaker 1: And the answer no, oh no, I don't know for

466
00:22:35,840 --> 00:22:38,280
Speaker 1: the girl they know they're winning. I'm not sure how

467
00:22:38,320 --> 00:22:42,840
Speaker 1: far they go for outfits. So obviously that was kind

468
00:22:42,880 --> 00:22:46,560
Speaker 1: of your outfit because it went along with your darker character.

469
00:22:47,480 --> 00:22:50,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, they were dressing me like and I've since heard

470
00:22:50,280 --> 00:22:53,360
Speaker 2: and no offensive like Alan or whoever, that they were

471
00:22:53,400 --> 00:22:56,800
Speaker 2: like feeding like this black widow and you know this

472
00:22:57,000 --> 00:23:00,119
Speaker 2: that narrative to the other girls. And you know, so

473
00:23:00,200 --> 00:23:02,320
Speaker 2: they would tell me what the other girls were saying

474
00:23:02,359 --> 00:23:04,280
Speaker 2: about me too, and that's something that I don't think

475
00:23:04,280 --> 00:23:06,639
Speaker 2: a lot of people know as well as it was

476
00:23:06,800 --> 00:23:11,720
Speaker 2: just a pressure cooker. So but you know, I did

477
00:23:11,760 --> 00:23:15,800
Speaker 2: ask for a gold ring, and in overnights he did

478
00:23:15,800 --> 00:23:17,520
Speaker 2: say to me like I'm madly in love with you.

479
00:23:17,600 --> 00:23:19,080
Speaker 2: He didn't say I'm going to propose to you, but

480
00:23:19,119 --> 00:23:21,920
Speaker 2: he was like, I'm in love with you, and like

481
00:23:22,280 --> 00:23:24,280
Speaker 2: I didn't have a shadow of a doubt that he

482
00:23:24,359 --> 00:23:25,600
Speaker 2: wasn't gonna propose.

483
00:23:26,920 --> 00:23:29,280
Speaker 1: Did it feel like love to you or did it

484
00:23:29,320 --> 00:23:32,360
Speaker 1: feel like lust? Because I think of him lusting after you,

485
00:23:32,560 --> 00:23:34,560
Speaker 1: and I don't even know what you would have felt

486
00:23:34,880 --> 00:23:35,280
Speaker 1: for him.

487
00:23:36,800 --> 00:23:40,879
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think Ben is charming. He's charming, and I

488
00:23:40,920 --> 00:23:42,639
Speaker 2: think that I got to see. I don't think he

489
00:23:42,720 --> 00:23:46,000
Speaker 2: was accurate, accurately portrayed on the show. Like he's a

490
00:23:46,040 --> 00:23:48,760
Speaker 2: lot more fun than I think what they showed, and

491
00:23:48,800 --> 00:23:51,879
Speaker 2: I know he felt that way. But I remember towards

492
00:23:51,880 --> 00:23:53,800
Speaker 2: the end of filming one of the EPs, a female

493
00:23:53,960 --> 00:23:56,399
Speaker 2: was like, would you be the next Bachelor if he

494
00:23:56,440 --> 00:23:59,080
Speaker 2: doesn't pick you? And this is like right before the finale,

495
00:23:59,119 --> 00:24:01,359
Speaker 2: and I kind of threw me like what, Yeah, Like

496
00:24:02,800 --> 00:24:05,360
Speaker 2: I can't say yes because what if they tell him that,

497
00:24:05,440 --> 00:24:07,679
Speaker 2: like she's here to do that? And I was never

498
00:24:07,760 --> 00:24:10,560
Speaker 2: a thought in my mind because I had feelings at

499
00:24:10,560 --> 00:24:13,040
Speaker 2: that point in time. And I will say that the

500
00:24:13,080 --> 00:24:15,440
Speaker 2: whole thing is a fairy tale. I mean, you're we're

501
00:24:15,480 --> 00:24:18,800
Speaker 2: in Switzerland, we're going on dates, we're in helicopters, we're

502
00:24:18,840 --> 00:24:22,879
Speaker 2: flying over the Matterhorn. Like all that stuff helps for sure,

503
00:24:23,160 --> 00:24:25,240
Speaker 2: and I think it's almost I hate to say trauma bonding,

504
00:24:25,320 --> 00:24:29,199
Speaker 2: but I think once the camera stopped rolling and we

505
00:24:29,240 --> 00:24:31,320
Speaker 2: had a lot of fun in those happy couple months,

506
00:24:31,359 --> 00:24:34,160
Speaker 2: I think that was when the cracks started seeping in

507
00:24:34,320 --> 00:24:37,080
Speaker 2: and the show was starting to air yeah, but we

508
00:24:37,200 --> 00:24:39,000
Speaker 2: really tried to make it work for a year. I

509
00:24:39,000 --> 00:24:41,840
Speaker 2: said to him, we really owe it to ourselves, Like

510
00:24:41,880 --> 00:24:44,840
Speaker 2: we just went through this like crazy thing, and we

511
00:24:44,960 --> 00:24:47,280
Speaker 2: owe it to ourselves. I think we would regret not

512
00:24:47,480 --> 00:24:50,720
Speaker 2: trying to make it work in the real world. And

513
00:24:50,880 --> 00:24:53,560
Speaker 2: I do think the fame affected him. I think that.

514
00:24:54,359 --> 00:24:57,120
Speaker 2: You know, he had been dating, like Jennifer Love Hewittt.

515
00:24:57,280 --> 00:25:00,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, I know, so we've heard so before you he

516
00:25:00,200 --> 00:25:04,399
Speaker 1: left for filming The Bachelor. Yeah, so in between his

517
00:25:04,520 --> 00:25:06,240
Speaker 1: two seasons, well, I.

518
00:25:06,160 --> 00:25:08,240
Speaker 2: Was meeting up with Adrian telling him I'm going on

519
00:25:08,320 --> 00:25:10,560
Speaker 2: The Bachelor. He's like, what's that show about? He was

520
00:25:10,680 --> 00:25:17,439
Speaker 2: dating Jennifer Love Hewittt. She allegedly I offered him the

521
00:25:17,480 --> 00:25:20,120
Speaker 2: same amount of money. He had already signed the contract

522
00:25:20,280 --> 00:25:24,520
Speaker 2: to do the show, and he wanted to do the show, and.

523
00:25:24,840 --> 00:25:26,520
Speaker 1: He wanted to do the show more than continue to

524
00:25:26,600 --> 00:25:27,960
Speaker 1: date Jennifer Love You, and.

525
00:25:27,880 --> 00:25:30,199
Speaker 2: He said on other podcasts like maybe I should have

526
00:25:30,320 --> 00:25:32,520
Speaker 2: just done that, which is always it's kind of sucks

527
00:25:32,520 --> 00:25:34,639
Speaker 2: to hear those things because it's like we really, like

528
00:25:34,720 --> 00:25:37,840
Speaker 2: he knew my family, like we had a real relationship.

529
00:25:38,280 --> 00:25:40,840
Speaker 2: He reached out to me about the year before I

530
00:25:40,880 --> 00:25:44,800
Speaker 2: met my husband. Most people don't know this, and he

531
00:25:44,920 --> 00:25:47,760
Speaker 2: was watching our season back over the holidays that we

532
00:25:47,880 --> 00:25:52,119
Speaker 2: rendezvous and we really thought about maybe trying again. And

533
00:25:52,160 --> 00:25:55,200
Speaker 2: this was like years later after my book came out.

534
00:25:55,240 --> 00:25:58,040
Speaker 2: He didn't talk to me. He was so pissed and

535
00:25:58,119 --> 00:26:00,560
Speaker 2: we really kind of just put a bow on that reallylationship.

536
00:26:00,800 --> 00:26:04,760
Speaker 2: And he's married now. I'm obviously married with three kids.

537
00:26:04,840 --> 00:26:07,840
Speaker 1: The summer before you met your husband, you had to

538
00:26:07,880 --> 00:26:09,640
Speaker 1: fling again with Ben.

539
00:26:10,040 --> 00:26:12,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, we met up for New Year's and we actually

540
00:26:12,680 --> 00:26:16,919
Speaker 2: watched Ari's season together. I think no, I think it

541
00:26:17,000 --> 00:26:21,000
Speaker 2: was his first premiere, and I remember I told Ari.

542
00:26:21,280 --> 00:26:23,159
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, we all know that you had a relationship

543
00:26:23,160 --> 00:26:25,560
Speaker 1: with Ari too, and I know that you finding out

544
00:26:25,600 --> 00:26:27,159
Speaker 1: that Ari was going to be the bachelor was not

545
00:26:27,200 --> 00:26:29,400
Speaker 1: an easy thing for you. Did you did you come

546
00:26:29,440 --> 00:26:33,000
Speaker 1: together in that trauma bond? Well?

547
00:26:33,080 --> 00:26:35,760
Speaker 2: I almost wondered if he reached out to me because

548
00:26:35,880 --> 00:26:37,959
Speaker 2: he kind of realized, like I don't, I don't know,

549
00:26:38,200 --> 00:26:41,240
Speaker 2: but like that that maybe that was like that's not

550
00:26:41,320 --> 00:26:43,320
Speaker 2: a thing for them, because like we had done, like

551
00:26:43,359 --> 00:26:46,480
Speaker 2: we were like good friends, like we had posted photos

552
00:26:46,520 --> 00:26:49,280
Speaker 2: together and you and Hari. Yeah, and then he was

553
00:26:49,280 --> 00:26:51,760
Speaker 2: announced as the Bachelor. We ended up watching his like

554
00:26:51,880 --> 00:26:54,840
Speaker 2: night one together, and obviously Ari was already back and

555
00:26:54,880 --> 00:26:56,600
Speaker 2: I was like, guess who I'm meeting up with in

556
00:26:56,680 --> 00:27:02,360
Speaker 2: Santa Barbara and he's like, please don't say Ben. I'm like, yeah,

557
00:27:02,400 --> 00:27:05,159
Speaker 2: so kind of good tea there, but I mean and

558
00:27:05,200 --> 00:27:08,159
Speaker 2: then yeah, Ben and I he was in Sonoma still

559
00:27:08,200 --> 00:27:10,680
Speaker 2: and he was saying about moving to New York, and

560
00:27:10,760 --> 00:27:12,359
Speaker 2: you know, Ben and I talked about moving to New

561
00:27:12,440 --> 00:27:15,119
Speaker 2: York together. This is like, wow, blasts from the past.

562
00:27:15,520 --> 00:27:20,640
Speaker 2: We spent time there together and in Connecticut. So yeah,

563
00:27:20,760 --> 00:27:22,719
Speaker 2: I'm glad that we kind of put a bow on it.

564
00:27:22,760 --> 00:27:25,480
Speaker 2: And now now, like I still talk to his sister

565
00:27:25,560 --> 00:27:28,080
Speaker 2: once in a while, like her and I were super close,

566
00:27:28,200 --> 00:27:31,320
Speaker 2: and I just you know, at the end of the day,

567
00:27:31,480 --> 00:27:33,679
Speaker 2: you know, it's so funny to like think about like

568
00:27:34,000 --> 00:27:37,359
Speaker 2: the drama with the girls, and you know, it's just

569
00:27:38,600 --> 00:27:42,200
Speaker 2: it is what it is. But I'm glad that Ben

570
00:27:42,240 --> 00:27:45,639
Speaker 2: and I cleared the air and were friendly and to

571
00:27:45,680 --> 00:27:46,359
Speaker 2: each their own.

572
00:27:46,480 --> 00:27:56,800
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579
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Speaker 1: What was tabloid life back then? I was reading an

624
00:30:36,520 --> 00:30:40,120
Speaker 1: old Reddit threat before having you on, and some people

625
00:30:40,160 --> 00:30:42,640
Speaker 1: in there were like, I mean, the girls today don't

626
00:30:42,680 --> 00:30:46,560
Speaker 1: even know about it was, how bad it was because

627
00:30:46,600 --> 00:30:49,360
Speaker 1: tabloids aren't as much of a thing anymore, because we

628
00:30:49,400 --> 00:30:52,120
Speaker 1: have social media and social media as it's own tabloid,

629
00:30:52,160 --> 00:30:54,840
Speaker 1: and at least with that you're able to be like, hey,

630
00:30:55,400 --> 00:30:58,760
Speaker 1: getting on because there's this picture coming around about me,

631
00:31:00,160 --> 00:31:02,640
Speaker 1: and like there's a more ongoing narrative. But like, you're

632
00:31:02,640 --> 00:31:06,600
Speaker 1: so out of control of your public narrative when it's

633
00:31:06,640 --> 00:31:09,800
Speaker 1: a tabloid situation. So what was it like literally being

634
00:31:09,840 --> 00:31:12,000
Speaker 1: at CBS in the grocery store and seeing like a

635
00:31:12,040 --> 00:31:15,040
Speaker 1: fake report on the cover of us legally, Because I think,

636
00:31:15,080 --> 00:31:18,720
Speaker 1: like to some degree that has got to be that's

637
00:31:18,720 --> 00:31:21,120
Speaker 1: just got to be more difficult, right because one there's

638
00:31:21,160 --> 00:31:25,160
Speaker 1: no control and two like it's in your face wherever

639
00:31:25,280 --> 00:31:27,760
Speaker 1: you go. I guess that's the same as social media,

640
00:31:27,800 --> 00:31:31,160
Speaker 1: but there's something about being printed that just feels way

641
00:31:31,200 --> 00:31:31,760
Speaker 1: more surreal.

642
00:31:32,760 --> 00:31:36,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, the media was not kind to me, and they

643
00:31:36,320 --> 00:31:39,160
Speaker 2: were reaching out to my ex boyfriend of seven years

644
00:31:39,240 --> 00:31:43,520
Speaker 2: and hounding anybody from high school that knew me, and

645
00:31:43,720 --> 00:31:45,760
Speaker 2: an ex boyfriend of mine have two years sold a

646
00:31:45,800 --> 00:31:48,800
Speaker 2: story on me for twenty thousand dollars. I think me

647
00:31:49,040 --> 00:31:54,400
Speaker 2: personally the false stories because they're headlines. Like, you know,

648
00:31:54,440 --> 00:31:57,959
Speaker 2: I know what's true. It's my life. But now people

649
00:31:58,080 --> 00:32:00,640
Speaker 2: think these things of me. They want the headlines, they

650
00:32:00,640 --> 00:32:05,520
Speaker 2: want the clickbait, like you know, sexual seduction mayn eater.

651
00:32:06,320 --> 00:32:08,600
Speaker 1: The most hated woman on TV. That's in front of

652
00:32:08,600 --> 00:32:09,360
Speaker 1: my face right now.

653
00:32:09,480 --> 00:32:13,440
Speaker 2: Oh all of them. I mean National Inquirer was really

654
00:32:13,480 --> 00:32:17,320
Speaker 2: bad POP, but a lot of it. They pulled modeling photos,

655
00:32:17,360 --> 00:32:21,000
Speaker 2: but paparazzi was hounding me. I did not anticipate that.

656
00:32:21,040 --> 00:32:24,880
Speaker 2: I had it for about two months POP. Four different paparazzis.

657
00:32:24,920 --> 00:32:27,280
Speaker 2: Every morning. If I went to the gym, they were

658
00:32:27,320 --> 00:32:30,000
Speaker 2: outside my door. I knew them by name. They followed

659
00:32:30,040 --> 00:32:33,160
Speaker 2: me everywhere I went. That was what was really hard,

660
00:32:33,800 --> 00:32:35,720
Speaker 2: is that feeling of like, oh my gosh, now I

661
00:32:35,800 --> 00:32:38,200
Speaker 2: have to think about what I look like. And on

662
00:32:38,280 --> 00:32:40,000
Speaker 2: top of it, I was dealing with like kind of

663
00:32:40,000 --> 00:32:43,840
Speaker 2: a rocky relationship at the time, and Ben had gotten

664
00:32:43,880 --> 00:32:47,120
Speaker 2: me a diamond band. He's like, they took your ring away,

665
00:32:47,160 --> 00:32:49,680
Speaker 2: so I want you to have this diamond band to wear.

666
00:32:50,200 --> 00:32:51,760
Speaker 2: And they're like, okay, you can wear it, but you

667
00:32:51,760 --> 00:32:53,120
Speaker 2: have to wear it on your right hand. And I

668
00:32:53,200 --> 00:32:54,560
Speaker 2: just got to the point where I was like so

669
00:32:54,680 --> 00:32:56,720
Speaker 2: mad at the show, mad at everybody. I just started

670
00:32:56,720 --> 00:32:58,440
Speaker 2: wearing it on my left hand because I'm like, they

671
00:32:58,480 --> 00:33:02,920
Speaker 2: want something. But for me, it was like the trickle down,

672
00:33:03,040 --> 00:33:07,120
Speaker 2: Like it was really hard for me to navigate the

673
00:33:07,160 --> 00:33:11,560
Speaker 2: false stories, like like there was no filtering. It was

674
00:33:11,600 --> 00:33:15,040
Speaker 2: like she wore white to my wedding, like like these

675
00:33:15,080 --> 00:33:19,320
Speaker 2: like most bogus stories on me, and I'm like, oh,

676
00:33:19,320 --> 00:33:21,960
Speaker 2: like it's just like like the fake news was the

677
00:33:22,000 --> 00:33:25,280
Speaker 2: hardest because I didn't have a platform, and the women

678
00:33:25,400 --> 00:33:27,520
Speaker 2: coming off the show back then, they would let them

679
00:33:27,560 --> 00:33:30,440
Speaker 2: do the media rounds and as soon as they got

680
00:33:30,520 --> 00:33:34,480
Speaker 2: voted off, and they were all just trashing me because

681
00:33:35,040 --> 00:33:39,960
Speaker 2: also the show was airing, so they were getting gassed up, right, yeah,

682
00:33:40,040 --> 00:33:42,120
Speaker 2: like they're seeing what I'm saying in my itms, And

683
00:33:42,680 --> 00:33:44,320
Speaker 2: I think the worst thing that they said about me

684
00:33:44,440 --> 00:33:46,760
Speaker 2: was like she just sleeps all the time, very alla

685
00:33:46,880 --> 00:33:52,120
Speaker 2: carinne Olympios. I'm like, yeah, I was exhausted and I

686
00:33:52,120 --> 00:33:54,640
Speaker 2: didn't want to be around anybody. The only time they

687
00:33:54,680 --> 00:33:56,800
Speaker 2: weren't you weren't miked up is they were like, I

688
00:33:56,840 --> 00:34:00,560
Speaker 2: need to take a nap. But yeah, that was really hard.

689
00:34:00,600 --> 00:34:03,080
Speaker 2: And then my mom was got really sick at the time,

690
00:34:03,200 --> 00:34:06,160
Speaker 2: and that that was what everything shifted for me, is

691
00:34:06,760 --> 00:34:09,920
Speaker 2: I had no help in the media or media coaching.

692
00:34:10,600 --> 00:34:13,600
Speaker 2: And I got a call that was like, your mom's

693
00:34:13,640 --> 00:34:16,840
Speaker 2: going to be on the cover of US weekly, like

694
00:34:16,880 --> 00:34:20,840
Speaker 2: the sidebar, and I called yeah, and it was like

695
00:34:20,880 --> 00:34:23,799
Speaker 2: personal stuff, and I called I think a lawn and

696
00:34:23,840 --> 00:34:26,719
Speaker 2: then like the higher ups and I said, this is

697
00:34:26,800 --> 00:34:29,040
Speaker 2: like my choice to go on the show, like now

698
00:34:29,080 --> 00:34:33,080
Speaker 2: it's like affecting my family. And at that point in time,

699
00:34:33,080 --> 00:34:35,680
Speaker 2: Ben and I weren't talking very much, like he didn't

700
00:34:35,719 --> 00:34:38,920
Speaker 2: really see how bad that time was in my life

701
00:34:38,920 --> 00:34:39,320
Speaker 2: and how.

702
00:34:39,239 --> 00:34:41,440
Speaker 1: Even though you guys are still technically together, it was

703
00:34:41,440 --> 00:34:42,320
Speaker 1: just a strain point.

704
00:34:42,680 --> 00:34:45,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I felt like I had to be strong

705
00:34:45,120 --> 00:34:47,520
Speaker 2: and like kind of like act like everything was okay.

706
00:34:47,880 --> 00:34:49,600
Speaker 2: And I was like I have like he knew the

707
00:34:49,640 --> 00:34:52,280
Speaker 2: paparazzi was there every day, and he's like Oh, I

708
00:34:52,320 --> 00:34:54,640
Speaker 2: saw you at the farmer's market and you spilled your

709
00:34:54,640 --> 00:34:56,640
Speaker 2: tomatoes like he thought it was like funny, and like,

710
00:34:56,680 --> 00:35:00,760
Speaker 2: this is like hard for me. So I just remember

711
00:35:00,800 --> 00:35:02,600
Speaker 2: I was on the cover of US Weekly for about

712
00:35:02,640 --> 00:35:06,200
Speaker 2: four weeks in a row, and then I hate to

713
00:35:06,239 --> 00:35:10,040
Speaker 2: say it, but Whitney Houston Rip passed away and then

714
00:35:10,080 --> 00:35:15,400
Speaker 2: I got one week off. No way, yeah, yeah, I

715
00:35:15,440 --> 00:35:18,399
Speaker 2: got one week off, and then it just fired right

716
00:35:18,440 --> 00:35:18,879
Speaker 2: back up.

717
00:35:19,239 --> 00:35:23,120
Speaker 1: Cordney. This is a wild to think back to think

718
00:35:23,160 --> 00:35:26,480
Speaker 1: that The Bachelor was such a big deal back then

719
00:35:26,520 --> 00:35:28,239
Speaker 1: that you would just get cover after cover.

720
00:35:29,960 --> 00:35:32,120
Speaker 2: I mean, now I can look back, but at the time,

721
00:35:32,160 --> 00:35:34,000
Speaker 2: I was like, oh my gosh, I'm so depressed. This

722
00:35:34,080 --> 00:35:36,239
Speaker 2: is like yeah, and my mom's sick, and like I

723
00:35:36,680 --> 00:35:38,800
Speaker 2: just was like my family, Like I need to protect

724
00:35:38,800 --> 00:35:41,799
Speaker 2: the family, Like I don't care about him. He's being

725
00:35:41,880 --> 00:35:44,440
Speaker 2: kind of shitty to me, like this isn't what I want.

726
00:35:44,560 --> 00:35:47,360
Speaker 2: And then I was also kind of embarrassed because like

727
00:35:47,840 --> 00:35:50,680
Speaker 2: I think about Jesse and like, what's he thinking about this?

728
00:35:51,000 --> 00:35:54,040
Speaker 2: And my ex was getting hounded and he was like

729
00:35:54,160 --> 00:35:56,239
Speaker 2: so supportive and he had a hard time with me

730
00:35:56,320 --> 00:35:59,239
Speaker 2: doing the show. I actually saw him before I went

731
00:35:59,320 --> 00:36:04,360
Speaker 2: for filming. So anyway, I feel I feel like we

732
00:36:04,440 --> 00:36:06,080
Speaker 2: might need to do a part two because.

733
00:36:06,080 --> 00:36:10,319
Speaker 1: I know the time click on and I'm like, wait

734
00:36:10,360 --> 00:36:13,240
Speaker 1: a second, we need a part two here for sure.

735
00:36:13,800 --> 00:36:17,359
Speaker 1: Before I let you leave for this part. Because I'm

736
00:36:17,400 --> 00:36:22,200
Speaker 1: serious about having a part two, you must know for

737
00:36:22,280 --> 00:36:25,560
Speaker 1: a fact whether Ben Flannik actually did it. Chris Jenner,

738
00:36:26,160 --> 00:36:28,879
Speaker 1: I mean, I mean, I've seen her face right now.

739
00:36:28,880 --> 00:36:31,000
Speaker 1: She's giving us the old fashioned Courtney face.

740
00:36:31,280 --> 00:36:33,480
Speaker 2: I talked to him about it when we were in

741
00:36:33,560 --> 00:36:40,120
Speaker 2: Santa Barbara and he said no, but he said I

742
00:36:40,200 --> 00:36:43,000
Speaker 2: know him pretty well. I mean, those cheating photos came out.

743
00:36:43,120 --> 00:36:45,399
Speaker 2: He was never gonna. I'm like, your hand's on your butt,

744
00:36:45,480 --> 00:36:47,600
Speaker 2: like it looks like you're kissing. That was another part

745
00:36:47,640 --> 00:36:51,040
Speaker 2: of our story that played out after the Final Rose.

746
00:36:51,680 --> 00:36:53,680
Speaker 2: But I think if he did, he'll take it to

747
00:36:53,719 --> 00:36:56,279
Speaker 2: the grave. And I remember messaging his sister at the

748
00:36:56,280 --> 00:36:59,879
Speaker 2: time saying, like, my sources are telling me that Chris

749
00:37:00,040 --> 00:37:03,799
Speaker 2: Jenner is planning these stories, and you got to tell

750
00:37:03,840 --> 00:37:07,360
Speaker 2: your brother that, you know, because we weren't on good terms,

751
00:37:08,680 --> 00:37:11,759
Speaker 2: and you know, Chris Jenner could rule the world with me, dya.

752
00:37:12,160 --> 00:37:14,920
Speaker 2: But he's like, yeah, like you know, we went to

753
00:37:15,000 --> 00:37:17,200
Speaker 2: Kanye West, and he talked to me about meeting the

754
00:37:17,280 --> 00:37:19,440
Speaker 2: sisters and all that.

755
00:37:19,520 --> 00:37:22,279
Speaker 1: When the smoke there's fire. They didn't just hang out.

756
00:37:22,880 --> 00:37:26,239
Speaker 2: I mean they were at Joe Joe Francis's place, and

757
00:37:27,680 --> 00:37:30,360
Speaker 2: I if he didn't tell me, but I one hundred

758
00:37:30,360 --> 00:37:32,240
Speaker 2: percent think there was some smoochie pooches.

759
00:37:32,520 --> 00:37:32,800
Speaker 3: Yeah.

760
00:37:32,840 --> 00:37:33,719
Speaker 2: I think she was like.

761
00:37:33,880 --> 00:37:37,360
Speaker 1: She's a big Bachelor fan or she was at the time, yeah.

762
00:37:37,239 --> 00:37:41,359
Speaker 2: Bachelor fan. And I think that she was wanting whether

763
00:37:41,560 --> 00:37:43,960
Speaker 2: anything happened with them between physically. He didn't admit that

764
00:37:44,000 --> 00:37:46,719
Speaker 2: to me, but I think that she was planting that

765
00:37:46,800 --> 00:37:49,320
Speaker 2: seat like I think she liked she had just broken

766
00:37:49,400 --> 00:37:54,920
Speaker 2: up or divorced Caitlin Jenner wild and I think that

767
00:37:54,920 --> 00:37:57,359
Speaker 2: that was the narrative she wanted. I mean, Chris Jenner

768
00:37:57,400 --> 00:38:00,440
Speaker 2: is smart. You don't take Ben Flanneck shopping at Niema,

769
00:38:00,560 --> 00:38:03,560
Speaker 2: you don't take him to a Kanye West concert. Yeah,

770
00:38:04,400 --> 00:38:07,080
Speaker 2: but I don't think that he plugged into the narrative,

771
00:38:07,239 --> 00:38:09,279
Speaker 2: like he was like going to the media being like

772
00:38:09,520 --> 00:38:12,239
Speaker 2: nothing's going on. I'm like, oh, And then as soon

773
00:38:12,280 --> 00:38:15,160
Speaker 2: as he started like pushing back like he was out.

774
00:38:15,239 --> 00:38:18,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, thanks for that insight right there.

775
00:38:18,800 --> 00:38:20,839
Speaker 2: But if I had to guess, I'm sure. I mean,

776
00:38:20,920 --> 00:38:21,960
Speaker 2: she's a babe.

777
00:38:22,880 --> 00:38:26,160
Speaker 1: I know none of us would be judging him at

778
00:38:26,160 --> 00:38:27,439
Speaker 1: all for the age gap there.

779
00:38:27,640 --> 00:38:30,040
Speaker 2: But he also with that said, though he's married now,

780
00:38:30,120 --> 00:38:32,480
Speaker 2: I suspect he's probably going to start a family soon.

781
00:38:32,560 --> 00:38:35,280
Speaker 2: I could see him being one of those that's like, surprise,

782
00:38:35,400 --> 00:38:37,279
Speaker 2: we had a baby. That's kind of what he did

783
00:38:37,280 --> 00:38:40,600
Speaker 2: with his marriage, and I'm really happy for him. I

784
00:38:41,440 --> 00:38:43,839
Speaker 2: you know, I you know, put a bow on that

785
00:38:43,920 --> 00:38:46,440
Speaker 2: part chapter of my life, and who knows, maybe ten

786
00:38:46,520 --> 00:38:49,640
Speaker 2: years from now we can look back and look. I mean,

787
00:38:49,680 --> 00:38:52,480
Speaker 2: it's a weird thing to go through and to just

788
00:38:52,600 --> 00:38:54,000
Speaker 2: kind of look back at it fondly.

789
00:38:54,520 --> 00:38:58,080
Speaker 1: I want to end with this for now. You wrote

790
00:38:58,160 --> 00:38:59,719
Speaker 1: you were the First. I want to say that You

791
00:38:59,719 --> 00:39:01,920
Speaker 1: Were the First Bachelor book, and one that I have

792
00:39:02,440 --> 00:39:06,840
Speaker 1: repeatedly said in this podcast helped educate me going into

793
00:39:06,880 --> 00:39:09,480
Speaker 1: the show. I read it on the way to casting

794
00:39:09,600 --> 00:39:12,879
Speaker 1: weekend in LA and it prepared me for so many

795
00:39:12,920 --> 00:39:16,040
Speaker 1: steps along the way. And it is such a good read.

796
00:39:16,080 --> 00:39:19,200
Speaker 1: You guys, if you are a Bachelor fan and you

797
00:39:19,280 --> 00:39:22,799
Speaker 1: know you've experimented with the book books before, this is

798
00:39:23,000 --> 00:39:25,440
Speaker 1: the book. This is the bachelor book, it's called I

799
00:39:25,520 --> 00:39:28,560
Speaker 1: Didn't come here to make Friends. Confessions of a Reality

800
00:39:28,600 --> 00:39:33,759
Speaker 1: show villain. When you wrote that book and then all

801
00:39:33,760 --> 00:39:37,440
Speaker 1: the spin off shows started happening, Bachelor Pad, Bachelor in Paradise,

802
00:39:37,800 --> 00:39:42,719
Speaker 1: there must have been some inquiry to have you on them,

803
00:39:43,120 --> 00:39:46,359
Speaker 1: Was there not? Or was it weird because you had

804
00:39:46,440 --> 00:39:48,000
Speaker 1: written such a tell all book.

805
00:39:49,320 --> 00:39:54,120
Speaker 2: So great question, Ashley. When I went to write my book,

806
00:39:54,160 --> 00:39:56,200
Speaker 2: I had to jump through so many hoops. I got

807
00:39:56,200 --> 00:39:57,880
Speaker 2: the call like, we're getting ready to send you a

808
00:39:57,920 --> 00:39:58,800
Speaker 2: cease and desist.

809
00:39:59,239 --> 00:40:00,840
Speaker 1: I was like, to be honest, there's a lot of

810
00:40:00,840 --> 00:40:02,480
Speaker 1: seas and desist written all of that book.

811
00:40:02,560 --> 00:40:02,600
Speaker 3: It.

812
00:40:03,640 --> 00:40:07,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, I mean it's it's got the stuff

813
00:40:07,200 --> 00:40:07,560
Speaker 1: in it.

814
00:40:08,200 --> 00:40:10,960
Speaker 2: I found a way to write it where it didn't

815
00:40:11,040 --> 00:40:14,160
Speaker 2: really break the contract in a way because that contract

816
00:40:14,200 --> 00:40:17,920
Speaker 2: takes away all of your human rights. And I probably

817
00:40:18,480 --> 00:40:20,680
Speaker 2: I'm not a suwy person or sooe happy, but I

818
00:40:20,760 --> 00:40:23,359
Speaker 2: probably like could have gone at them at some point.

819
00:40:23,440 --> 00:40:25,759
Speaker 2: I think they knew that for defamation or like they

820
00:40:25,840 --> 00:40:28,279
Speaker 2: said that the skinny dipping thing would be blurred and

821
00:40:28,800 --> 00:40:31,120
Speaker 2: the promo ran on Good Morning America and there were

822
00:40:31,120 --> 00:40:35,760
Speaker 2: no blurboxes. I'm literally texting along like this is not okay,

823
00:40:36,080 --> 00:40:38,560
Speaker 2: like and it's already out there, like people slowed it down.

824
00:40:38,600 --> 00:40:42,680
Speaker 2: But as far as the book goes, I said to

825
00:40:43,040 --> 00:40:45,319
Speaker 2: my contacts, like, if you can help me get this

826
00:40:45,440 --> 00:40:48,040
Speaker 2: done and push this along, I'll do whatever show you want.

827
00:40:48,080 --> 00:40:50,040
Speaker 2: I'll do your next show. And that just so happened

828
00:40:50,040 --> 00:40:53,080
Speaker 2: to be Bachelor in Paradise, and so I kind of

829
00:40:53,280 --> 00:40:54,359
Speaker 2: negotiated with them.

830
00:40:54,800 --> 00:40:56,480
Speaker 1: You negotiate with them to do it.

831
00:40:56,960 --> 00:41:00,239
Speaker 2: Yeah, So I negotiated if they could help me get

832
00:41:00,320 --> 00:41:03,680
Speaker 2: my book done, that I would do their next show,

833
00:41:03,719 --> 00:41:06,719
Speaker 2: which was Paradise. And so I was in talks to

834
00:41:06,760 --> 00:41:09,400
Speaker 2: do that and all of that, and then at the

835
00:41:09,560 --> 00:41:12,399
Speaker 2: end of the day, they realized with the book coming

836
00:41:12,440 --> 00:41:16,120
Speaker 2: out that they didn't want contestants to feel uncomfortable around me,

837
00:41:16,360 --> 00:41:20,680
Speaker 2: thinking that they'd be in fear of me writing another book.

838
00:41:21,600 --> 00:41:23,640
Speaker 2: So it was a conflict of interest, which was great

839
00:41:23,640 --> 00:41:25,239
Speaker 2: for me because I didn't want to do it. That

840
00:41:25,360 --> 00:41:27,880
Speaker 2: was just kind of like my like show of faith,

841
00:41:28,320 --> 00:41:30,880
Speaker 2: like I'm gonna you know, I'm not gonna bat. I

842
00:41:30,920 --> 00:41:33,440
Speaker 2: didn't bash the franchise. I literally was talking about like

843
00:41:33,560 --> 00:41:36,000
Speaker 2: what I was experiencing. It was a lot about my

844
00:41:36,040 --> 00:41:39,279
Speaker 2: life before the show. A little bit during well, a

845
00:41:39,320 --> 00:41:41,440
Speaker 2: lot of it about during filming, like what I was

846
00:41:41,480 --> 00:41:44,439
Speaker 2: feeling and experiencing and then what life was like trying

847
00:41:44,480 --> 00:41:48,319
Speaker 2: to make that relationship work. So thank you for saying that.

848
00:41:48,360 --> 00:41:51,120
Speaker 2: I'm proud of that. I'm proud that I was able

849
00:41:51,160 --> 00:41:54,400
Speaker 2: to pull that off. But it was really hard. And

850
00:41:54,440 --> 00:41:57,600
Speaker 2: then they've had me back for appearances like we're good.

851
00:41:58,640 --> 00:42:02,320
Speaker 1: Yeah you in that. Well, don't disparage them at all. Actually,

852
00:42:02,320 --> 00:42:04,600
Speaker 1: you never scared me away from doing it. You just

853
00:42:04,680 --> 00:42:07,600
Speaker 1: described the bat behind the scenes process before there was

854
00:42:07,640 --> 00:42:11,040
Speaker 1: such thing as podcasts packing and yes, like so, well,

855
00:42:11,120 --> 00:42:13,960
Speaker 1: it was so interesting, Like I just ate it up

856
00:42:14,120 --> 00:42:19,200
Speaker 1: because before podcasts there we had no insight as to

857
00:42:19,200 --> 00:42:20,840
Speaker 1: what like the behind the scenes of filming was. It

858
00:42:20,880 --> 00:42:23,880
Speaker 1: was so interesting, but you always made it seem you

859
00:42:24,200 --> 00:42:28,160
Speaker 1: never made it seem like you were you hated the experience.

860
00:42:28,360 --> 00:42:31,600
Speaker 2: Oh no, I'm thankful for the experience. I really am.

861
00:42:31,880 --> 00:42:34,399
Speaker 2: And it just it really beat me down for a while.

862
00:42:34,400 --> 00:42:38,120
Speaker 2: It was definitely depressed it, you know, but I've met

863
00:42:38,160 --> 00:42:40,600
Speaker 2: I've you know, met other great people through the show

864
00:42:40,680 --> 00:42:43,839
Speaker 2: and you know, like you for example, and now I podcast,

865
00:42:43,960 --> 00:42:48,160
Speaker 2: and yeah, I don't regret it. I definitely don't. It

866
00:42:48,560 --> 00:42:52,600
Speaker 2: was life changing, and you know, I ended up meeting

867
00:42:52,640 --> 00:42:55,000
Speaker 2: my husband kind of an roundabout way through the show.

868
00:42:55,040 --> 00:42:56,480
Speaker 2: But we can we can say of all that for

869
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Speaker 2: if you want to do a part two, let me know.

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00:42:59,040 --> 00:43:00,719
Speaker 1: Let's do it. Let's do it. Okay, you're a mom

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00:43:00,760 --> 00:43:02,480
Speaker 1: of three now I want to get into that. But

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00:43:02,800 --> 00:43:05,080
Speaker 1: I'm sure that you have to run because of that.

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00:43:05,920 --> 00:43:08,719
Speaker 1: So we will see you next time. Courtney, Thank you

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00:43:08,800 --> 00:43:10,839
Speaker 1: so so much for bearing it all.

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00:43:11,480 --> 00:43:15,359
Speaker 2: No, you know, I'll sing like a canary and I've

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00:43:15,360 --> 00:43:18,799
Speaker 2: got some more exciting stuff coming up soon, so stay tuned.

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Speaker 1: It's good. We'll see you then. Until next time. I've been, Ashley,

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00:43:21,960 --> 00:43:27,160
Speaker 1: I've been Courtney. Woo bye. Follow the Ben and Ashley

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00:43:27,239 --> 00:43:31,160
Speaker 1: I Almost Famous podcast on iHeartRadio or subscribe wherever you

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00:43:31,200 --> 00:43:32,239
Speaker 1: listen to podcasts.