1 00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:04,000 Speaker 1: I'm joined by the US Ambassador to NATO, Julian Smith, 2 00:00:04,080 --> 00:00:06,440 Speaker 1: joins me Hair on the program ahead of next week's 3 00:00:06,440 --> 00:00:09,640 Speaker 1: and NATO summit in Washington, d C. Ambassador, a pleasure 4 00:00:09,920 --> 00:00:11,760 Speaker 1: to have you on the program. Thank you so much. 5 00:00:12,039 --> 00:00:14,640 Speaker 1: I want to dive right into a question a lot 6 00:00:14,640 --> 00:00:16,680 Speaker 1: of people on both sides of the Atlantic are asking, which 7 00:00:16,720 --> 00:00:21,079 Speaker 1: is sustainability of aid to Ukraine. From your perspective and 8 00:00:21,079 --> 00:00:24,320 Speaker 1: from your visibility, how long can we count on that? 9 00:00:25,760 --> 00:00:29,159 Speaker 2: Well, what I see here inside the NATO Alliance is 10 00:00:29,320 --> 00:00:33,760 Speaker 2: strong unity by all thirty two allies to keep supporting 11 00:00:33,920 --> 00:00:36,960 Speaker 2: our friends in Ukraine. This isn't just a case of 12 00:00:37,000 --> 00:00:42,720 Speaker 2: the US providing important economic, humanitarian and security assistance. This 13 00:00:42,880 --> 00:00:45,360 Speaker 2: is a case where all of our friends in NATO 14 00:00:45,479 --> 00:00:49,040 Speaker 2: are doing their fair share. And let me just note 15 00:00:49,040 --> 00:00:54,960 Speaker 2: that when Europeans in particular invest in capabilities to donate 16 00:00:55,080 --> 00:00:58,320 Speaker 2: to the Ukrainians, they often come to the United States 17 00:00:58,760 --> 00:01:03,040 Speaker 2: and purchase weapons and capabilities and assets from the US. 18 00:01:03,160 --> 00:01:06,560 Speaker 2: Because they're best in class. We can get them quickly 19 00:01:06,959 --> 00:01:11,560 Speaker 2: onto you into Ukraine, and the timelines for delivery are 20 00:01:11,640 --> 00:01:14,760 Speaker 2: rather short. So this is an investment first and foremost 21 00:01:14,760 --> 00:01:18,000 Speaker 2: in Ukraine. But I would note that the investments that 22 00:01:18,040 --> 00:01:21,080 Speaker 2: we're making their come back and pay dividends in the 23 00:01:21,200 --> 00:01:22,560 Speaker 2: United States as well. 24 00:01:23,959 --> 00:01:26,200 Speaker 1: You emphasize the investments in Europe. Right now, there's a 25 00:01:26,240 --> 00:01:29,080 Speaker 1: lot of questions around how sustainable even that ramp up 26 00:01:29,120 --> 00:01:31,440 Speaker 1: in defenses from some of the NATO allies and of 27 00:01:31,480 --> 00:01:34,679 Speaker 1: course from each country's defense. I have his number here, say, 28 00:01:34,800 --> 00:01:37,520 Speaker 1: twenty three NATO allies are already at that two percent goal, 29 00:01:37,840 --> 00:01:42,240 Speaker 1: despite Russia outspending Europe. Are you satisfied with the progress 30 00:01:42,280 --> 00:01:44,959 Speaker 1: that Europe is making despite some of those political and 31 00:01:45,040 --> 00:01:47,160 Speaker 1: arguably financial hurdles that they're facing. 32 00:01:50,520 --> 00:01:54,480 Speaker 2: Ten years ago, allies came together and decided that every 33 00:01:54,560 --> 00:01:57,880 Speaker 2: member of the Alliance would spend two percent of their 34 00:01:57,920 --> 00:02:01,360 Speaker 2: own GDP on defense. When we made that pledge a 35 00:02:01,400 --> 00:02:05,600 Speaker 2: decade ago, actually there were only three allies that met 36 00:02:05,600 --> 00:02:08,320 Speaker 2: the target. So the big news that we have at 37 00:02:08,320 --> 00:02:11,720 Speaker 2: the NATO summit coming up next week is that we're 38 00:02:11,800 --> 00:02:15,400 Speaker 2: now at a point. Ten years later, we're twenty three 39 00:02:15,600 --> 00:02:19,040 Speaker 2: allies now spend two percent. Now, your question was is 40 00:02:19,080 --> 00:02:22,160 Speaker 2: that enough? Two points on that one, We've got to 41 00:02:22,200 --> 00:02:24,880 Speaker 2: make sure that we get to thirty two, and every 42 00:02:24,960 --> 00:02:27,560 Speaker 2: member of the Alliance has a plan in place to 43 00:02:27,600 --> 00:02:29,679 Speaker 2: get there. So in the next couple of years we're 44 00:02:29,680 --> 00:02:33,320 Speaker 2: going to face a situation where all members of the 45 00:02:33,400 --> 00:02:36,760 Speaker 2: Alliance spend two percent. But here's the other point I 46 00:02:36,800 --> 00:02:42,120 Speaker 2: would make. We have now multiple allies across the Alliance 47 00:02:42,200 --> 00:02:46,400 Speaker 2: spending more than two percent. We have countries in Eastern Europe, 48 00:02:46,480 --> 00:02:50,600 Speaker 2: the Nordic countries, the UK and others obviously the United 49 00:02:50,639 --> 00:02:53,760 Speaker 2: States that spend more than two percent. So not only 50 00:02:53,840 --> 00:02:56,960 Speaker 2: our allies meeting the commitment, they're stretching beyond it. 51 00:02:58,360 --> 00:03:00,400 Speaker 1: Well, they're also talking a lot about there at least 52 00:03:00,440 --> 00:03:02,560 Speaker 1: have been reports in the last forty eight hours or 53 00:03:02,639 --> 00:03:06,200 Speaker 1: so that NATO particularly is talking about a special station 54 00:03:06,680 --> 00:03:10,480 Speaker 1: in Kiev in particular, and is also talking about centralizing 55 00:03:10,480 --> 00:03:12,360 Speaker 1: some of those operations when it comes to training, when 56 00:03:12,400 --> 00:03:14,919 Speaker 1: it comes to troops, when it comes to weaponization. Can 57 00:03:14,960 --> 00:03:16,440 Speaker 1: you walk us through the significance of that. 58 00:03:19,800 --> 00:03:22,240 Speaker 2: Sure, So when we get to the summit next week, 59 00:03:22,280 --> 00:03:26,160 Speaker 2: we're going to have a couple of different deliverables for Ukraine. 60 00:03:26,600 --> 00:03:30,280 Speaker 2: One is that we are now here at NATO going 61 00:03:30,320 --> 00:03:34,239 Speaker 2: to take over the coordination of some of the assistants 62 00:03:34,280 --> 00:03:38,160 Speaker 2: that's flowing into Ukraine. We've had many years well two 63 00:03:38,280 --> 00:03:42,960 Speaker 2: years where many countries have come together to offer assistance 64 00:03:43,000 --> 00:03:47,160 Speaker 2: to Ukraine, and NATO is now going to be coordinating 65 00:03:47,280 --> 00:03:50,680 Speaker 2: all of those efforts to bring order to all of 66 00:03:50,720 --> 00:03:54,280 Speaker 2: the generous support being provided to them. NATO is also 67 00:03:54,400 --> 00:03:57,240 Speaker 2: going to take on the coordination of training. We have 68 00:03:57,280 --> 00:04:00,840 Speaker 2: a situation where many countries in Europe and the United 69 00:04:00,840 --> 00:04:04,840 Speaker 2: States are providing training, and now NATO is saying they 70 00:04:04,840 --> 00:04:08,840 Speaker 2: can coordinate those efforts again to bring greater coherence. In 71 00:04:08,880 --> 00:04:12,400 Speaker 2: addition to those two initiatives, we will also have most 72 00:04:12,560 --> 00:04:17,159 Speaker 2: likely a new senior civilian rep located in Kiev. This 73 00:04:17,279 --> 00:04:20,760 Speaker 2: doesn't mean that the coordination of assistance will happen in Ukraine, 74 00:04:21,200 --> 00:04:24,599 Speaker 2: but we will likely appoint someone to manage all of 75 00:04:24,640 --> 00:04:27,400 Speaker 2: the good work that we're doing with the Ukrainians on 76 00:04:27,560 --> 00:04:32,200 Speaker 2: modernizing their forces and building their future force from there 77 00:04:32,480 --> 00:04:33,200 Speaker 2: in Kiev. 78 00:04:35,320 --> 00:04:39,760 Speaker 1: Your predecessors Douglas Lute, Evo Dalder, as well the previous 79 00:04:39,800 --> 00:04:42,160 Speaker 1: ambassadors to NATO have said that this is a move 80 00:04:42,240 --> 00:04:45,440 Speaker 1: that basically trump proofs NATO, But in addition to doing that, 81 00:04:45,800 --> 00:04:48,400 Speaker 1: it also protects against the rise of the far right 82 00:04:48,440 --> 00:04:51,240 Speaker 1: that you're seeing in Europe. From your perspective, how dire 83 00:04:51,440 --> 00:04:52,480 Speaker 1: is that need right now? 84 00:04:55,760 --> 00:04:59,880 Speaker 2: Well, the new initiatives that I just mentioned for Ukraine 85 00:05:00,080 --> 00:05:02,839 Speaker 2: and are actually being put in place so that we 86 00:05:02,920 --> 00:05:07,080 Speaker 2: can bring greater coordination to all of the efforts that 87 00:05:07,120 --> 00:05:10,520 Speaker 2: have sprung up over the last two plus years. It's 88 00:05:10,560 --> 00:05:15,120 Speaker 2: not necessarily about guarding against political change. I mean, look, 89 00:05:15,160 --> 00:05:19,200 Speaker 2: the Alliance is seventy five years old and it has 90 00:05:19,320 --> 00:05:25,440 Speaker 2: dealt with many decades of political changes, different administrations coming 91 00:05:25,480 --> 00:05:27,720 Speaker 2: in on both sides of the Atlantic, so we can 92 00:05:27,800 --> 00:05:32,080 Speaker 2: cope with that irrespective of what happens. This is about 93 00:05:32,120 --> 00:05:36,640 Speaker 2: helping the efforts that are being provided to support Ukraine, 94 00:05:37,279 --> 00:05:41,000 Speaker 2: coordinating them and bring them all together under one roof. 95 00:05:41,040 --> 00:05:44,960 Speaker 2: And NATO feels like it has some institutional advantage in 96 00:05:45,080 --> 00:05:49,120 Speaker 2: doing that since it helped so many members in Eastern 97 00:05:49,160 --> 00:05:54,040 Speaker 2: Europe transition into the Alliance to become full fledged members 98 00:05:54,080 --> 00:05:58,000 Speaker 2: over the last twenty years. So modernizing, helping a country 99 00:05:58,080 --> 00:06:01,040 Speaker 2: modernize its forces is something that we know how to 100 00:06:01,080 --> 00:06:04,480 Speaker 2: do here in NATO HQ, and that's why NATO is 101 00:06:04,520 --> 00:06:06,400 Speaker 2: moving out with these new initiatives. 102 00:06:07,600 --> 00:06:10,680 Speaker 1: But Ambassador, for how long we're talking about the sustainability 103 00:06:10,720 --> 00:06:14,000 Speaker 1: of AID. I'm curious how long from your perspective Ukraine 104 00:06:14,160 --> 00:06:16,599 Speaker 1: is expected to need that kind of aid. Are we 105 00:06:16,640 --> 00:06:20,479 Speaker 1: talking about years here, a decade, months, what kind of timeframe. 106 00:06:23,320 --> 00:06:26,880 Speaker 2: Well, we can't predict with any certainty exactly how long 107 00:06:27,000 --> 00:06:30,520 Speaker 2: the war in Ukraine will last. But let's make one 108 00:06:30,560 --> 00:06:34,080 Speaker 2: thing clear. There's one person that started this war. That's 109 00:06:34,200 --> 00:06:37,800 Speaker 2: President Putin. He started this war two plus years ago. 110 00:06:38,200 --> 00:06:40,760 Speaker 2: He's the guy that could stop this war if he's 111 00:06:40,760 --> 00:06:44,320 Speaker 2: so desired. So we will work with the Ukrainians to 112 00:06:44,520 --> 00:06:47,680 Speaker 2: ensure that they have the assistance they need to defend 113 00:06:47,680 --> 00:06:51,120 Speaker 2: their territory. But we will also work with the people 114 00:06:51,160 --> 00:06:55,120 Speaker 2: of Ukraine towards peace and support the efforts that they've 115 00:06:55,240 --> 00:07:00,240 Speaker 2: undertaken in recent months to move towards some sort of 116 00:07:00,440 --> 00:07:01,840 Speaker 2: negotiated settlement. 117 00:07:03,320 --> 00:07:05,880 Speaker 1: And Ambassador, a final question to you on the cooperation 118 00:07:06,400 --> 00:07:09,520 Speaker 1: between Russia and China, in particular, not only when it 119 00:07:09,520 --> 00:07:12,280 Speaker 1: comes to Ukraine, but an access as being formed, perhaps 120 00:07:12,280 --> 00:07:16,280 Speaker 1: in response to NATO as well. How preventable is that? 121 00:07:16,360 --> 00:07:20,000 Speaker 1: From your perspective? Is can anything be done to counteract it? 122 00:07:23,400 --> 00:07:26,520 Speaker 2: We spend a lot of time here at NATO headquarters 123 00:07:26,600 --> 00:07:32,040 Speaker 2: talking about the deepening relationship between the PRC and Russia. 124 00:07:33,080 --> 00:07:36,760 Speaker 2: China takes every effort every chance it can get to 125 00:07:37,000 --> 00:07:40,400 Speaker 2: argue that somehow it's a neutral player in this war 126 00:07:40,480 --> 00:07:45,640 Speaker 2: in Ukraine. But in reality, the PRC is providing a 127 00:07:45,760 --> 00:07:49,920 Speaker 2: long list of dual use components, things like machine tools 128 00:07:50,040 --> 00:07:55,840 Speaker 2: and microelectronics that are enabling Russia to pursue this war 129 00:07:55,880 --> 00:07:59,560 Speaker 2: of aggression in Ukraine. So here inside NATO, we're making 130 00:07:59,600 --> 00:08:03,920 Speaker 2: sure that we can expose the fact that the PRC 131 00:08:04,080 --> 00:08:07,680 Speaker 2: is no longer a neutral player and warr in China 132 00:08:07,760 --> 00:08:12,280 Speaker 2: about the risks of getting behind Russia in this unprovoked 133 00:08:12,320 --> 00:08:13,560 Speaker 2: war of aggression.