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Speaker 1: I'm t T and I'm Zakiah and from Spotify.

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Speaker 2: This is Dope Labs.

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Speaker 3: Welcome to Dope Labs, a weekly podcast that mixes hardcore science,

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Speaker 3: pop culture.

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Speaker 1: And a healthy docent friendship. So last week we talked

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Speaker 1: all about how the landscape of fashion and e commerce

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Speaker 1: and shopping has changed completely. Yes, but there was an

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Speaker 1: aspect of this that we touched on.

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Speaker 3: Very lightly that we knew that we needed to dig

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Speaker 3: into in today's lab.

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Speaker 1: And that is the idea of sustainability in fashion. So

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Speaker 1: let's get into the recitation, all right, So what do

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Speaker 1: we know?

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Speaker 3: One thing that I know from a Mackenzie study that

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Speaker 3: I've read is that clothing production from the year two

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Speaker 3: thousand to the year twenty fourteen has doubled.

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Speaker 1: What we also know is that a lot of the

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Speaker 1: clothes that we purchase aren't made in the US right.

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Speaker 3: A lot of it is coming from China, and China

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Speaker 3: actually accounts for thirty percent of world apparel.

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Speaker 1: Wow, So we know we have a huge clothing industry.

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Speaker 1: There's a lot of clothes being made. People are buying

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Speaker 1: way more I guess pieces or garments per person than

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Speaker 1: they used to. How do we take all of that

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Speaker 1: and make it tie into sustainability. How do we shift

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Speaker 1: what's going on? That's a great question.

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Speaker 3: Another thing I think we want to know is what's

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Speaker 3: happening when the life of your clothing comes to an end?

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Speaker 3: What are folks doing with their old clothes? And if

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Speaker 3: we are generating waste from clothes, what is happening to it?

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Speaker 1: Well, I know the global population hasn't doubled or increased

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Speaker 1: sixty percent to match production or purchasing power that we see,

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Speaker 1: So I want to know when we got so greedy?

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Speaker 1: You know, what's happening if we're all buying so much

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Speaker 1: more clothing? Are we just hoarding it? Are we hanging

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Speaker 1: on to it? Are we turning it over quicker? Is

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Speaker 1: it wearing out? I have questions. Okay, so we've talked

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Speaker 1: about fast fashion.

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Speaker 3: I want to know what is the opposite of fast

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Speaker 3: fashion and how can we make things better for our

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Speaker 3: global community.

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Speaker 1: We're really focusing on ourselves as consumers, But what are

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Speaker 1: the companies doing? Because at sixty eight garments of person,

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Speaker 1: there's only so much impact that I can make, you know, right,

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Speaker 1: it kind of has to start at the top two.

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Speaker 3: They have to be doing the right things and doing

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Speaker 3: them ethically before it even gets to us for us

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Speaker 3: to really have a major impact.

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Speaker 1: That's right. And then what about accessibility to everyone?

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Speaker 3: It seems like sustainable fashion is on the tip of

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Speaker 3: everyone's tongue these days, but does everybody have access to

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Speaker 3: these things? Let's get into the dissection. Today's guest expert

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Speaker 3: is Drew Heifitz.

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Speaker 4: What's up, guys. My name is Drew Heifitz. I'm the

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Speaker 4: owner of Frankie Collective and I have a couple other

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Speaker 4: companies called Fison, frank Vintage, and the Rag Machine.

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Speaker 1: Frankie Collective is an online retailer that sells vintage and

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Speaker 1: reworked clothing.

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Speaker 4: So what that means is we take secondhand in vintage

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Speaker 4: clothing that typically would end up in the landfill or

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Speaker 4: discarded or wherever it ends up most of the time

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Speaker 4: the landfill, and we cut it and re sew it

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Speaker 4: into new clothing to give it a second life, maybe

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Speaker 4: update the fit, update the style, and bring it back.

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Speaker 3: Another name for reworked clothing is up cycling or upcycled clothing,

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Speaker 3: and Frankie Collective estimates that they have saved or upcycled

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Speaker 3: sixty five thousand pounds of clothes every year.

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Speaker 1: That's a lot of clothes.

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Speaker 3: That's probably more clothes and is in like Mariah Carey's closet.

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Speaker 1: I'm really hoping we can help our listeners visualize what

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Speaker 1: we mean when we say upcycling, and specifically upcycling the

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Speaker 1: way Frankie Collective does it. Mm hmm.

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Speaker 3: They're taking old clothes and making them like brand new,

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Speaker 3: and not just brand new, but unlike anything you would

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Speaker 3: see in the store, So you're getting something that almost

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Speaker 3: feels one of a kind. So let's rewind a little

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Speaker 3: bit here, because I think to really understand why Frankie

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Speaker 3: Collective is doing this, you have to kind of have

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Speaker 3: an overview of the environmental impact of fashion, starting with

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Speaker 3: your closet. How often do you do like a clearout

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Speaker 3: of your closet? You know, a couple of year back,

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Speaker 3: was at the beginning of the pandemic, Maricondo was I

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Speaker 3: felt like she was in my house.

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Speaker 1: Okay, she needs to come to mind. He was not there. Okay,

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Speaker 1: she's not a friendly she's not welcome in my home.

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Speaker 3: I was saying goodbye to so many things. I was

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Speaker 3: having little conversations. Listen, I appreciate you shirt, you served

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Speaker 3: your purpose and I'm grateful for you, but your time

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Speaker 3: is done.

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Speaker 1: You must go. Thank you. I think each season I

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Speaker 1: kind of go through this purging process. But you also

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Speaker 1: know tt that I move a lot.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, my friend cannot stay in one place. She loves

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Speaker 3: to be moving out of a place and moving in

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Speaker 3: it seems yes, And so you know, just by that process,

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Speaker 3: I'm purging quite a bit and going through things. I

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Speaker 3: know that some people do like different things with their clothes.

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Speaker 3: There's things where you can like sell your clothes.

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Speaker 1: I would just take backs to Goodwill. What happens to

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Speaker 1: that stuff? I'm always looking to see, does somebody have

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Speaker 1: on my outfit that I donated, Like, what happens to it?

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Speaker 3: I put my thing in that drop box and it's

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Speaker 3: just kind of like out of side, out of mind.

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Speaker 3: I'm like, those clothes disappeared.

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Speaker 4: Most of our clothing gets donated. Everyone knows those bins

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Speaker 4: you donate and it's like salvation army bin or wherever

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Speaker 4: they are, or you can drop it at the back

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Speaker 4: of a thrift store. Right. This is where the public

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Speaker 4: perception gets blurry, because we typically think that all those

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Speaker 4: clothes were donating goes right into that thrift store and

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Speaker 4: gets sold. In reality, I think it's only something like

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Speaker 4: five or ten percent of what we donate goes into

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Speaker 4: those thrift stores.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, according to the EPA, about eighty four percent of

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Speaker 3: our clothing ends up in incinerators and landfills.

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Speaker 4: They get so much more clothing than they can actually

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Speaker 4: process so that the public can consume. And also they

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Speaker 4: don't want to put out dirty things, stain things, rip things.

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Speaker 4: People donate one leg of a gene, you know, they're

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Speaker 4: just like, what do I do with this?

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Speaker 1: Then I'm really curious about how these clothes end up

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Speaker 1: in landfills, Like, what is the process from my donation?

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Speaker 1: Who's judging them and saying, mmmm, it's the key it

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Speaker 1: brought us? This not good enough? This is trash. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's rude.

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Speaker 3: Drew says that many places that accept clothing donations will

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Speaker 3: send unwanted clothing to facilities that will sort and package

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Speaker 3: it by size and then sell the packages by the

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Speaker 3: pound to international markets where it can be resold.

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Speaker 4: Pakistan, India, Africa have huge street markets where they sell

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Speaker 4: primarily American and European secondhand clothing. Pop culture is so

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Speaker 4: based in America. People to watch American movies and TV shows,

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Speaker 4: and they want those brands that they're seeing on TV

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Speaker 4: and the movies and all these things. But again, a

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Speaker 4: huge portion of that stuff, like in this whole process,

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Speaker 4: just gets tossed because it doesn't fit the grade that

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Speaker 4: people want, it's damaged, whatever happens, They put them in

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Speaker 4: these huge thousand pounds biales compress clothing and they go

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Speaker 4: to landfill. And there's whole clothing landfills in Africa that

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Speaker 4: are like taking up massive amounts of space, and then

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Speaker 4: tons of it goes to American landfills.

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Speaker 1: The Council for Textile Reporting estimates that the average US

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Speaker 1: citizen throws away or donates seventy to eighty pounds of

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Speaker 1: clothing and other textiles annually. Seventy to eighty pounds every year.

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Speaker 1: How many pairs of genes is that? And it says

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Speaker 1: other textiles too, So that's like towels. Let's do the math.

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Speaker 3: Eighty four percent of seventy five pounds of donated clothing.

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Speaker 1: That's sixty three pounds of.

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Speaker 3: Clothing that I thought was getting resold at a thrift store,

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Speaker 3: but it's probably sitting in a landfill somewhere.

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Speaker 1: And that's really sobering to think about, what are some

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Speaker 1: of the alternate things we can do with the clothes

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Speaker 1: we don't want to use anymore, especially now that I

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Speaker 1: know they're going to the landfill.

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Speaker 4: You're much better off giving your clothes to a friend

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Speaker 4: who's gonna use it, or if you have kids clothes, like,

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Speaker 4: give it to an expecting mom, whatever it is, because

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Speaker 4: at least you know that it's most likely going to

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Speaker 4: get used and passed on and not end up in landfill.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: So sometimes I do that with my sisters. Like if

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Speaker 3: I have stuff that I'm like, Okay, I've worn this

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Speaker 3: once or twice and I don't want it anymore. Or

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Speaker 3: I bought this thing it's really nice, but it wasn't

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Speaker 3: the right size. I might ask my little sister, Hey,

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Speaker 3: what do you think this, and I'll give it to

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Speaker 3: her so she can have it. Also, you can donate

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Speaker 3: to local shelters or nonprofit organizations, Yeah, in your neighborhood.

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Speaker 3: So how do we accumulate all of these clothes in

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Speaker 3: the first place? When you think about donating sixty or

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Speaker 3: seventy pounds of clothes, that means you had to get

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Speaker 3: at least sixty to seventy pounds of clothes. So that

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Speaker 3: goes back to a lot of what we were talking

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Speaker 3: about with doctor Kahn. How we shop is kind of changing,

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Speaker 3: and we wanted to get Drew's perspective on fast fashion

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Speaker 3: and what it is.

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Speaker 4: First of all, it's driving down prices so deeply discounted

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Speaker 4: that they can just have people buy and buy and

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Speaker 4: not be concerned with the amount of waste they're creating.

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Speaker 4: Quality gets compromised, which means that you end up throwing

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Speaker 4: these things out after two three maybe one where they're

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Speaker 4: putting out new stuff so fast, so fast, you know,

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Speaker 4: a weekly basis, daily basis. Typically, when we look at

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Speaker 4: fashion from a historic perspective, companies would have seasonal collections.

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Speaker 4: This is my spring collection, this is my summer collection,

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Speaker 4: this is my fall collection. Now it's like, this is

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Speaker 4: Monday's drop, this is Tuesday drop, this is Wednesday drop,

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Speaker 4: this is Thursday drop. And you're like, okay, you're coming

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Speaker 4: at me so.

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Speaker 1: Fast, you know, And I think the question becomes, what's

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Speaker 1: the opposite, right, right, how do we slow down this train?

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Speaker 1: How do I still look good? But right, it's slow

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Speaker 1: fashion A thing I think it kind of.

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Speaker 4: Is slow fashion to me would be brands where you

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Speaker 4: could buy something and you can guarantee that they're going

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Speaker 4: to last you. You know, maybe something that has a

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Speaker 4: lifetime warranty that they'll fix it for you if it

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Speaker 4: doesn't stand up to your standards, or a brand where

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Speaker 4: the clothing is built to last you a few years.

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Speaker 4: So it's like you can go buy one pair of

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Speaker 4: pants that you know is going to like hold up

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Speaker 4: for like three four years or two years, or you

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Speaker 4: could buy ten pairs of fast fashion pants right and

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Speaker 4: in the end, you would spend less on the one

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Speaker 4: good pair than the ten pairs, even though in the

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Speaker 4: moment you're like, well, I only paid thirty for those jeans.

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Speaker 1: And it feels like some brands are trying to write

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Speaker 1: the ship. One that I've seen is like Universal Standard

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Speaker 1: and they are super sized inclusive, and they even have

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Speaker 1: a program where if you order things and let's say

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Speaker 1: your weight changes or your size changes within a year,

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Speaker 1: they will ship you the size you want, like you

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Speaker 1: can ship it back, they will exchange the sizes for you.

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Speaker 1: I think there's also been a push but folks on

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Speaker 1: Instagram who have been talking about capsule collections, and that's

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Speaker 1: something that I really am kind of into It's like,

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Speaker 1: these are the things that I'm gonna wear. I have,

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Speaker 1: you know, a good pair of black jeans, a pair

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Speaker 1: that I know I can go to, not like, oh

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Speaker 1: this doesn't look right. It kind of fits, but sometimes

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Speaker 1: you know how that is. Yeah, I've seen people do that.

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Speaker 3: And one of the people that I follow, she has

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Speaker 3: like a clothing rail and those are like her staple things.

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Speaker 3: Like She's like, I always have a nice jean jacket.

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Speaker 3: These are my staple blue jeans. This is a blazer

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Speaker 3: that I really like. Yes, this is a button down

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Speaker 3: shirt that I really like. And so she has like

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Speaker 3: eight or nine pieces that she loves that are really

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Speaker 3: good qualities.

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Speaker 1: So then you're not really buying for the trends. If

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Speaker 1: leopard is in, you may accessorize with leopard, you know,

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Speaker 1: or you may do something like that, but you don't

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Speaker 1: find yourself moving through each season. You're now I got

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Speaker 1: to get Poka dout pants. Now it's time for bootcut jeans,

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Speaker 1: which are those back?

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Speaker 3: I saw somebody wearing low rise jeans and I felt

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Speaker 3: like I could weep. No way will I ever go back.

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Speaker 1: I like my genes to fit like a turtleneck in

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Speaker 1: addition to the efforts on the consumer side around like

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Speaker 1: you know, capsule collections and just buying things that really fit. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: you know, we're seeing a lot more marketing, you like

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Speaker 1: the Little Green Leaf brand saying that they are selling

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Speaker 1: us clothing that's sustainable or ethically sourced.

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Speaker 3: And ethically sourced means that the workers, the people that

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Speaker 3: are making the clothing are not in environments that are

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Speaker 3: unsafe this non sweatshop situation, and that like if they're

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Speaker 3: working with anything that has to do with like dye

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Speaker 3: or chemicals, that they have the right personal protective equipment

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Speaker 3: or ppe to do their job safely.

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Speaker 4: So when you actually break it down, something that is

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Speaker 4: sustainable means we can do it forever and ever and

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Speaker 4: ever and ever, and the resources for that are never

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Speaker 4: going to be depleted and it will keep replenishing itself. Right.

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Speaker 4: I don't think any of it is sustainable. I don't

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Speaker 4: think the whole industry. I don't think what we're doing

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Speaker 4: to a degree is completely sustainable. You know, there's always

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Speaker 4: some kind of waste, and there's always something that's not perfect.

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Speaker 1: Some people in the clothing industry are trying to steer

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Speaker 1: away from using the term sustainability, and a lot of

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Speaker 1: environmental scientists and researchers are encouraging them to do. So.

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Speaker 4: The sustainable term is a blanket term where everyone's like, ooh,

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Speaker 4: that sounds great, that's cool, maybe I'll buy that. That

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Speaker 4: doesn't say anything, right, and then when you break it down,

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Speaker 4: like you said, into sustainably sourced or organic or non

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Speaker 4: toxic dyeing or all the other things that people use,

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Speaker 4: that kind of gets more specific. And I think that's

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Speaker 4: probably a better way to.

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Speaker 1: Go, you know, I really like that more of a

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Speaker 1: spectrum of sustainability. Yeah, so even if you can't upcycle

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Speaker 1: or rework or trade old clothing, there are things you

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Speaker 1: can do from the jump to increase this life cycle. Right.

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Speaker 3: I had all these old sweatshirts and recently I was like, okay,

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Speaker 3: I need to get rid of some of these sweatshirts.

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Speaker 3: The kise you know I own, yes, what feels like

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Speaker 3: mountains of sweatshirts. I wear sweatshirts all year round, and

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Speaker 3: so I decided I wanted to get rid of some

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Speaker 3: of them.

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Speaker 1: And so I was like, Okay, what can I do.

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Speaker 3: I know that you know, after talking to Drew that

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Speaker 3: donating them probably isn't the right thing to do. So

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Speaker 3: I went on Twitter and I asked, you know, have

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Speaker 3: all these old clothes, what should I do with them?

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Speaker 3: And someone suggested that I just cut them up and

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Speaker 3: use them as like cleaning supply, so like stuff that

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Speaker 3: I can use to like dry off dishes, you know,

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Speaker 3: to like clean windows or clean floor.

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Speaker 1: And I thought that that was such a great idea.

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Speaker 3: And so it's cool to imagine a second or third

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Speaker 3: or fourth life for your clothes when you're finishing wearing them.

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Speaker 4: We just all have to be looking to produce less

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Speaker 4: waste and think about the things we're doing and every

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Speaker 4: facet of our lives all the time.

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Speaker 1: Well, we're going to take a break, but there's a

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Speaker 1: lot more to come, including how the global labor shortage

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Speaker 1: is affecting the fashion world and some surprising news about

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Speaker 1: those popular clothing rental services too.

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Speaker 3: We're back and we've been talking with Drew Heifitz, the

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Speaker 3: owner of Frankie Collective, about fashion and how to be

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Speaker 3: more eco conscious consumers of clothing.

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Speaker 1: And we can't really have this conversation without talking about access.

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Speaker 1: That's also a big factor in making the right decisions

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Speaker 1: for ourselves, you know, so true. If I have to

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Speaker 1: drive across town to get where the more ethically sourced

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Speaker 1: clothing is, that's already putting it out of bounds for me.

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Speaker 1: That's already a barrier. What if I don't have a car,

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Speaker 1: and if I do have a car, and am I

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Speaker 1: concerned about contributing to pollution in another way? And the

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Speaker 1: elephant in the room that we're not talking about is

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Speaker 1: that often organic or responsibly sourced clothing is more expensive.

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Speaker 1: These are all these different filters you have to assess

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Speaker 1: your decisions through.

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Speaker 3: This is just like what we were talking about when

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Speaker 3: we talked about food and about access to healthy food.

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Speaker 3: Like if it's so expensive, then only certain groups of

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Speaker 3: people of a certain status have access to it.

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Speaker 4: The system has to change where doing the right thing

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Speaker 4: is the same price right, where it's the same for

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Speaker 4: everyone and everyone has accessibility to it.

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Speaker 3: Like Drew said, accessibility is so important, and that goes

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Speaker 3: for accessibility to information too. The more we know about

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Speaker 3: our clothing and where and how it's made, the better

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Speaker 3: equipped we are to make choices about what we wear.

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Speaker 3: One thing that a lot of people don't know about

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Speaker 3: clothing fabric is that a lot of our clothing contains plastic,

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Speaker 3: and through the degradation of our clothes, whether it's through

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Speaker 3: washing or wherever our clothes end up, if we aren't

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Speaker 3: reusing them, it introduces tiny particles into our environment called microplastics.

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Speaker 4: Microplastics are a huge problem. Right when we wash our clothes.

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Speaker 4: Microplastics come off any synthetics, so basically fleece, polyester nylons,

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Speaker 4: these products are made of petroleum plastic based materials, and

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Speaker 4: then they shed these tiny particles. The particles go get

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Speaker 4: washed out into the ocean. Eventually through our system they're

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Speaker 4: too small. This is kind of like out of sight,

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Speaker 4: out of mind problem that not a lot of people

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Speaker 4: think about or know about.

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Speaker 3: We as humans on this planet, use a lot of plastic.

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Speaker 3: There's plastic in everything, there's plastic in our clothes, there's

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Speaker 3: plastic in everything that's around us, and so that creates

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Speaker 3: a lot of plastic waste. And the thing about plastic

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Speaker 3: is that it doesn't degrade. It lives forever, essentially, and

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Speaker 3: so that creates a problem with the environment. Because we're

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Speaker 3: putting these things in landfills. There's a lot of plastic

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Speaker 3: that goes into our waste water, and that waste water

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Speaker 3: makes its way out to the ocean, and then, as

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Speaker 3: we talked about with Ayana Elizabeth Johnson in LAP twenty eight,

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Speaker 3: that water evaporates, goes into the sky and then rains

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Speaker 3: down upon us.

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Speaker 1: And I think the thing I really want everybody to remember,

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Speaker 1: you know, is when we say plastics, we think about

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Speaker 1: plastic bags and plastic that we can see, you know,

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Speaker 1: And that plastic is already like film, plastic hard enough

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Speaker 1: to capture. But you're talking about plastic that is so

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Speaker 1: small that it's difficult to recapture. Right.

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Speaker 3: You would only be able to see them if they

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Speaker 3: are grouped up in large groups. But what also is

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Speaker 3: happening is that when it's in the ocean, those microplastics,

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Speaker 3: because they're so small, they get carried up with the

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Speaker 3: evaporated water from the ocean, which goes into the clouds,

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Speaker 3: and then as either rains or snows, the microplastic comes

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Speaker 3: down from the clouds and then back onto the earth.

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Speaker 3: So while it's in the water, we have fish that

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Speaker 3: are eating microplastics unknowingly. So I saw a study a

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Speaker 3: while ago that was saying that probably every piece of

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Speaker 3: fish that we consume at this point has microplastics in it.

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Speaker 3: And then there was a study from twenty nineteen where

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Speaker 3: these researchers were in the Arctic and they were collecting

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Speaker 3: snow samples from the Arctic, and they said per lead

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Speaker 3: of melted snow, there were ten thousand microscopic particles of

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Speaker 3: plastic in it, ten thousand per leader. And so it

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Speaker 3: just lets you know that our water and our plant life,

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Speaker 3: and our animal life, and even just ourselves, we are

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Speaker 3: consuming so much plastic.

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Speaker 1: You know, microplastics are harmful. You get bioaccumulations. Small little

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Speaker 1: organisms consume these microplastics. Bigger organisms consume lots of microplastics.

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Speaker 1: Fish consume those bigger organisms. We consume fish, you know.

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Speaker 1: So then you have microplastics circulating throughout our entire ecosystem,

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Speaker 1: and when they're in the body, they're harmful. They're physically harmful,

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Speaker 1: and they can disrupt biological function, like of your immune

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Speaker 1: system and affect your growth and reproduction.

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Speaker 3: Frankie Collective has been trying in their own way to

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Speaker 3: make a huge dent on the problem of clothing and

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Speaker 3: textile ways, and Drew says that over the past few

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Speaker 3: years they've really taken off.

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Speaker 1: The conversation has also really grown on social media and

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Speaker 1: through several documentaries like The True Cost, which came out

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Speaker 1: in twenty fifteen, which highlights not only the devastating environmental

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Speaker 1: impact of fast fashion, but it also highlights the human

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Speaker 1: rights abuses that are happening due to the rising demand

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Speaker 1: of cheap clothing.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it feels like now everybody's talking about it.

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Speaker 4: I would say even like the last five years have

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Speaker 4: been the biggest movement in that kind of realm of

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Speaker 4: public perception that we need to be more sustainable. It

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Speaker 4: has a whole following now, a whole sector of people,

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Speaker 4: a whole group of people that are really like again,

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Speaker 4: there's levels to it, but are looking for it, demanding it.

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Speaker 4: And that's the basis to everything. If the people want it,

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Speaker 4: the people demand it, the people buy it, then it

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Speaker 4: all falls into place because you literally vote for everything

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Speaker 4: with your money. It's like so simple. So you've got

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Speaker 4: to put your money where your mouth is and you

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Speaker 4: got to vote with your money.

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Speaker 1: You know.

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Speaker 3: This also makes me think of what renting clothes, those

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Speaker 3: services where you can rent clothes like rent the Runway,

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Speaker 3: Newly or Guinnybee.

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Speaker 1: These services provide users access to.

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Speaker 3: Some of the top fashion brands without the financial commitment

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Speaker 3: and without having to go into the store. So for

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Speaker 3: a flat rate or a monthly feed, you can go

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Speaker 3: onto their website, you pick what you want, and then

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Speaker 3: you wear it for or you know, whatever event that

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Speaker 3: you have or whatever you need that clothing for, and

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Speaker 3: then you send it back and the cost varies. You

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Speaker 3: can expect to spend anywhere from sixty to two hundred

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Speaker 3: dollars per month. So it seems like a great way

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Speaker 3: to keep your look looking first, you know, without creating

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Speaker 3: a lot of waste, right.

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Speaker 4: I mean, you would think the rental market's fairly new,

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Speaker 4: like rent the Runway or Urban Outfitters has a rental program. Now,

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Speaker 4: I believe from a perspective of convenience and fashion, it's

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Speaker 4: kind of dope because you're like, you can every month

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Speaker 4: get a new box of put in your closet, send

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Speaker 4: it back, get a new box of and rotate it out.

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Speaker 1: But a new study that came out in July in

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Speaker 1: Environmental Research Letters actually argues that renting and recycling clothes

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Speaker 1: is less sustainable than just buying them. We can't win,

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Speaker 1: we can't win. In this study, a group of research

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Speaker 1: scientists in Finland calculated the greenhouse gas emissions connected to

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Speaker 1: five different ways of consuming clothing. The main issue is

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Speaker 1: that the way these companies are currently operating, there's a

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Speaker 1: lot of transportation required to deliver rent it clothes from

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Speaker 1: the warehouse to your doorstep, and so that really adds

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Speaker 1: up in terms of emissions.

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Speaker 4: I don't think it's much more sustainable than producing clothing market,

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Speaker 4: to be honest. And then that argument also travels over

437
00:23:16,680 --> 00:23:20,760
Speaker 4: to like e commerce in general, everything's getting shipped, everything's

438
00:23:20,760 --> 00:23:23,399
Speaker 4: getting shipped, right, one garment, one T shirt's getting shipped

439
00:23:23,400 --> 00:23:26,199
Speaker 4: around the world maybe a couple times, three times. So

440
00:23:26,840 --> 00:23:29,439
Speaker 4: again it's like where do we draw the line what

441
00:23:29,640 --> 00:23:30,520
Speaker 4: is right for you?

442
00:23:30,760 --> 00:23:33,879
Speaker 3: This goes back to fast fashion and slow fashion. Renting

443
00:23:33,920 --> 00:23:37,000
Speaker 3: clothes is still based on cycling through the newest trends

444
00:23:37,000 --> 00:23:39,439
Speaker 3: and sending clothes back when they're no longer in style.

445
00:23:39,920 --> 00:23:42,600
Speaker 3: This is kind of like fast fashion following us. No

446
00:23:42,640 --> 00:23:47,280
Speaker 3: matter how hard we try to act sustainably, we can't

447
00:23:47,400 --> 00:23:51,399
Speaker 3: escape it. Sciences say that the most sustainable thing you

448
00:23:51,440 --> 00:23:55,360
Speaker 3: can do is buy less clothes and wear them for longer.

449
00:23:55,640 --> 00:23:57,920
Speaker 3: There's also things that rental companies can do to improve

450
00:23:58,000 --> 00:24:00,640
Speaker 3: their emissions, like using forms of trans for that are

451
00:24:00,760 --> 00:24:03,959
Speaker 3: low to zero emissions, but that hasn't happened yet.

452
00:24:04,240 --> 00:24:06,520
Speaker 4: Obviously, you have to be happy and get the cool

453
00:24:06,520 --> 00:24:08,320
Speaker 4: shit that you want, but you also want to do

454
00:24:08,320 --> 00:24:11,760
Speaker 4: it in the best way. It's like that is such

455
00:24:11,880 --> 00:24:18,000
Speaker 4: a massive umbrella of opinions and arguments and facts and

456
00:24:18,040 --> 00:24:21,119
Speaker 4: oil consumption and all these things. So I'm just gonna say, like,

457
00:24:21,160 --> 00:24:23,200
Speaker 4: you got to make that call for yourself, you.

458
00:24:23,160 --> 00:24:25,320
Speaker 1: Know, and maybe you draw the line at regularly renting

459
00:24:25,320 --> 00:24:27,880
Speaker 1: your day to day wardrobe. So maybe you decide, I'm

460
00:24:27,880 --> 00:24:30,520
Speaker 1: only going to rent something for this really special event.

461
00:24:30,600 --> 00:24:32,919
Speaker 1: You know, I want this one of a kind vintage

462
00:24:33,000 --> 00:24:36,399
Speaker 1: dress for my cousin's wedding. Right, Dan, you do your

463
00:24:36,440 --> 00:24:38,719
Speaker 1: research and you decide what's best for you. I remember

464
00:24:38,720 --> 00:24:39,959
Speaker 1: when something similar happens.

465
00:24:40,000 --> 00:24:43,240
Speaker 3: Oh, for our food episode, uh huh.

466
00:24:43,320 --> 00:24:45,160
Speaker 1: We had talked about all these different things.

467
00:24:45,160 --> 00:24:47,480
Speaker 3: You know, they were saying cow's milk, you know, it's

468
00:24:47,520 --> 00:24:51,239
Speaker 3: bad for agriculture and the way that it's produced and

469
00:24:51,280 --> 00:24:53,360
Speaker 3: all these things like that. So it's like not ethical

470
00:24:53,359 --> 00:24:55,400
Speaker 3: to drink cows milks. I said, Okay, I no longer

471
00:24:55,440 --> 00:24:58,640
Speaker 3: drink cow's milk. I am now one of the elites

472
00:24:58,760 --> 00:25:01,679
Speaker 3: now I drink almond milk, you know, And so me

473
00:25:01,880 --> 00:25:03,879
Speaker 3: thinking that now I'm fancy and I'm with it, and

474
00:25:04,040 --> 00:25:07,000
Speaker 3: I'm helping the environment and I'm a better person. I

475
00:25:07,040 --> 00:25:10,360
Speaker 3: go on Twitter, Hey, y'all, I drink almond milk now.

476
00:25:10,840 --> 00:25:14,080
Speaker 1: And then people were like, you drink almond milk.

477
00:25:14,440 --> 00:25:18,040
Speaker 3: Do you know how much water it takes to make

478
00:25:18,240 --> 00:25:19,120
Speaker 3: one almond?

479
00:25:19,280 --> 00:25:21,560
Speaker 1: That's so bad for the environment. I was like, well, dang,

480
00:25:22,440 --> 00:25:23,680
Speaker 1: what am I supposed to do now?

481
00:25:23,680 --> 00:25:25,119
Speaker 3: And they're like, you have to drink oat milk, And

482
00:25:25,119 --> 00:25:27,359
Speaker 3: I was like, well, probably in six months, you're gonna

483
00:25:27,359 --> 00:25:29,840
Speaker 3: tell me that oat milk requires the blood of your

484
00:25:29,880 --> 00:25:32,439
Speaker 3: first child to get the oats or something like that.

485
00:25:32,520 --> 00:25:35,840
Speaker 3: I feel like I can't when you can really end

486
00:25:35,920 --> 00:25:38,439
Speaker 3: up driving yourself crazy trying to keep up with some

487
00:25:38,480 --> 00:25:39,240
Speaker 3: of these things.

488
00:25:39,400 --> 00:25:41,120
Speaker 4: You know, if it doesn't sit right with you, look

489
00:25:41,160 --> 00:25:43,439
Speaker 4: it up, get the facts, figure out what works for

490
00:25:43,520 --> 00:25:46,680
Speaker 4: you and your own life, and just do the best

491
00:25:46,800 --> 00:25:47,840
Speaker 4: you can, you know.

492
00:25:47,880 --> 00:25:49,639
Speaker 1: And one thing we've been hearing a lot about lately

493
00:25:49,760 --> 00:25:53,440
Speaker 1: is the global labor shortage, which low key is tied

494
00:25:53,480 --> 00:25:57,080
Speaker 1: to the global low wage issue. M So, you know,

495
00:25:57,080 --> 00:25:58,359
Speaker 1: there are a lot of industries that are in a

496
00:25:58,359 --> 00:26:01,880
Speaker 1: state of constant flux as company struggle to find applicants

497
00:26:01,920 --> 00:26:05,119
Speaker 1: and demand is just expected to continue to rise. Just

498
00:26:05,160 --> 00:26:08,600
Speaker 1: in the US, job openings hit a record of ten

499
00:26:09,040 --> 00:26:12,640
Speaker 1: million in June of twenty twenty one, and then as

500
00:26:12,640 --> 00:26:16,879
Speaker 1: of July, the overall unemployment rate was five point four percent,

501
00:26:17,160 --> 00:26:19,959
Speaker 1: but it was even worse in the retail industry specifically

502
00:26:20,000 --> 00:26:23,359
Speaker 1: because there was six point four percent unemployment. Wow. And

503
00:26:23,400 --> 00:26:26,160
Speaker 1: so that's just retail in the stories. That's not counting

504
00:26:26,240 --> 00:26:29,440
Speaker 1: labor shortages and factories where clothes are being made shortages

505
00:26:29,480 --> 00:26:33,000
Speaker 1: and distribution shortages with cargo ships and truck drivers who

506
00:26:33,040 --> 00:26:35,359
Speaker 1: deliver clothing to the stories to be sold. And you know,

507
00:26:35,440 --> 00:26:37,840
Speaker 1: Christopher Mims from the Wall Street Journal and our guests

508
00:26:37,840 --> 00:26:40,240
Speaker 1: from LAP thirty nine has a book that talks about

509
00:26:40,240 --> 00:26:43,680
Speaker 1: that shortage, especially around truck drivers and transportation. It's called

510
00:26:43,880 --> 00:26:50,399
Speaker 1: Arriving Today. So we asked Drew, how should we be

511
00:26:50,480 --> 00:26:55,119
Speaker 1: framing this issue within the context of sustainability and is

512
00:26:55,119 --> 00:26:58,720
Speaker 1: there some way we might need to think about restructuring

513
00:26:58,760 --> 00:27:01,959
Speaker 1: fashion overall when we're considering these shortages.

514
00:27:02,760 --> 00:27:06,119
Speaker 4: When you look at use clothing and resell projections, it's

515
00:27:06,160 --> 00:27:08,560
Speaker 4: going up. It's going crazy. There's been some numbers put

516
00:27:08,600 --> 00:27:11,080
Speaker 4: out that include sneakers, which is a huge part of

517
00:27:11,080 --> 00:27:17,280
Speaker 4: it luxury streetwear. And then say, secondhand, the numbers projected

518
00:27:17,320 --> 00:27:20,000
Speaker 4: for the next five years are like going to quadruple right,

519
00:27:20,600 --> 00:27:23,639
Speaker 4: because it's close to home, it's becoming more accessible. Like

520
00:27:23,680 --> 00:27:27,400
Speaker 4: you said, we're so reliant on supply chains from Asia,

521
00:27:27,480 --> 00:27:32,040
Speaker 4: from China and other Asian countries like Korea and Vietnam

522
00:27:32,160 --> 00:27:35,439
Speaker 4: and other places. We're so reliant on those supply chains

523
00:27:35,480 --> 00:27:39,200
Speaker 4: that if they shut down on us on America in particular,

524
00:27:39,320 --> 00:27:42,840
Speaker 4: I mean Canada is the same, we're screwed, heavily screwed.

525
00:27:43,200 --> 00:27:45,720
Speaker 4: What can we do in our lives to say kind

526
00:27:45,720 --> 00:27:48,639
Speaker 4: of help and get around that or try to help

527
00:27:48,960 --> 00:27:52,200
Speaker 4: more local things do better. If you have the option

528
00:27:52,280 --> 00:27:54,480
Speaker 4: to buy a product that somebody in your town made,

529
00:27:54,600 --> 00:27:56,760
Speaker 4: or somebody in China made, maybe buy somebody in your

530
00:27:56,760 --> 00:28:00,400
Speaker 4: town because that way it'll increase the demand or that

531
00:28:00,800 --> 00:28:03,760
Speaker 4: locally that will eliminate a supply chain issue.

532
00:28:03,800 --> 00:28:05,800
Speaker 3: But the other thing that Drew pointed out is that

533
00:28:05,840 --> 00:28:09,480
Speaker 3: it's our responsibility as consumers to educate ourselves about what

534
00:28:09,520 --> 00:28:12,520
Speaker 3: efforts a company is making to become more sustainable and

535
00:28:12,640 --> 00:28:16,400
Speaker 3: environmentally friendly, because even if a company is marketing itself

536
00:28:16,440 --> 00:28:21,120
Speaker 3: as quote unquote sustainable, that doesn't always mean they're actually

537
00:28:21,160 --> 00:28:22,119
Speaker 3: doing the work.

538
00:28:22,600 --> 00:28:25,600
Speaker 4: Greenwashing is very prevalent now, and we sort of said

539
00:28:25,640 --> 00:28:28,680
Speaker 4: how a lot of companies are jumping into the space

540
00:28:28,840 --> 00:28:32,359
Speaker 4: of sustainable or eco friendly in all these different ways,

541
00:28:32,440 --> 00:28:35,840
Speaker 4: and the marketing is coming out so fast and heavy.

542
00:28:36,000 --> 00:28:40,440
Speaker 4: Companies will market whatever works. They're ab testing on you.

543
00:28:40,480 --> 00:28:43,120
Speaker 4: They're throwing ads at you, whatever you like, They're gonna

544
00:28:43,120 --> 00:28:45,760
Speaker 4: throw it at you harder. We really should be doing

545
00:28:45,800 --> 00:28:46,960
Speaker 4: a little bit more research.

546
00:28:47,400 --> 00:28:49,200
Speaker 1: This isn't that different from when you see foods in

547
00:28:49,200 --> 00:28:52,320
Speaker 1: the grocery store marketing as natural, like what do you

548
00:28:52,400 --> 00:28:56,240
Speaker 1: mean by that? Or even organic, but organic is just

549
00:28:56,320 --> 00:28:57,920
Speaker 1: part of the brand name, right.

550
00:28:57,760 --> 00:29:00,160
Speaker 3: It'll be like organic but with a K at the end.

551
00:29:00,360 --> 00:29:02,680
Speaker 1: Like come on, baby, we know that that's not right.

552
00:29:04,960 --> 00:29:05,920
Speaker 1: That ain't no organic.

553
00:29:06,480 --> 00:29:09,760
Speaker 4: Right again, voting with your dollar, but voting with your

554
00:29:10,200 --> 00:29:13,360
Speaker 4: eyes and what you view and what you choose to acknowledge,

555
00:29:13,400 --> 00:29:15,440
Speaker 4: and if you're gonna buy something, maybe just do a

556
00:29:15,440 --> 00:29:18,480
Speaker 4: little more research to see if that marketing was actually

557
00:29:18,600 --> 00:29:21,840
Speaker 4: correct and stands up to your personal filter of what

558
00:29:21,920 --> 00:29:25,080
Speaker 4: you decide is good for your own life.

559
00:29:24,840 --> 00:29:27,120
Speaker 1: And that's something I can really get behind. Tt me too.

560
00:29:27,440 --> 00:29:30,440
Speaker 3: It's your personal filter. You can't change every single thing.

561
00:29:30,760 --> 00:29:33,920
Speaker 3: It's gonna be what matters most to you. It's not

562
00:29:34,000 --> 00:29:37,120
Speaker 3: just about you know once every four years or every

563
00:29:37,120 --> 00:29:41,040
Speaker 3: two years. You can every day be making a statement

564
00:29:41,160 --> 00:29:43,080
Speaker 3: with how you place your money.

565
00:29:42,800 --> 00:29:45,080
Speaker 1: Because that's exactly what shopping is, if you break it down,

566
00:29:45,560 --> 00:29:56,840
Speaker 1: voting with your dollar. All right, it's time for one

567
00:29:56,880 --> 00:30:00,400
Speaker 1: thing the Keia. What's your one thing? My one thing

568
00:30:00,760 --> 00:30:04,160
Speaker 1: is a book this week. It is Stop Telling Women

569
00:30:04,200 --> 00:30:09,000
Speaker 1: to Smile Stories of street harassment by visual artists Tatiana

570
00:30:09,040 --> 00:30:11,040
Speaker 1: Fazla Le's All Day. You can find her at t

571
00:30:11,360 --> 00:30:14,200
Speaker 1: l y n n faz dot com.

572
00:30:14,040 --> 00:30:16,960
Speaker 3: I love that and I will definitely be purchasing. My

573
00:30:17,040 --> 00:30:19,480
Speaker 3: one thing this week is also a book. It's by

574
00:30:19,680 --> 00:30:22,160
Speaker 3: Ajah Barber and it's right in line with what we've

575
00:30:22,200 --> 00:30:24,640
Speaker 3: been talking about over the last couple of episodes. It's

576
00:30:24,680 --> 00:30:29,680
Speaker 3: called Consumed, The Need for Collective Change, Colonialism, climate change,

577
00:30:29,720 --> 00:30:35,160
Speaker 3: and Consumerism. It is so good, so definitely pick that

578
00:30:35,280 --> 00:30:35,800
Speaker 3: up as well.

579
00:30:47,280 --> 00:30:49,520
Speaker 1: That's it for Lap fifty three and a wrap on

580
00:30:49,560 --> 00:30:52,480
Speaker 1: our episodes on fashion call Us at two O two

581
00:30:52,640 --> 00:30:54,920
Speaker 1: five six seven seven zero two eight, and tell us

582
00:30:54,960 --> 00:30:57,160
Speaker 1: what you thought or if you have an idea for

583
00:30:57,200 --> 00:30:59,240
Speaker 1: a lap we should do this semester. Tell us that

584
00:30:59,320 --> 00:31:01,720
Speaker 1: too really love hearing from you. That's two O two

585
00:31:01,880 --> 00:31:04,880
Speaker 1: five six seven seven zero two eight, And don't forget

586
00:31:04,920 --> 00:31:07,000
Speaker 1: there's so much more for you to dig into on

587
00:31:07,040 --> 00:31:09,680
Speaker 1: our website. There'll be a cheat cheat there for today's

588
00:31:09,760 --> 00:31:12,880
Speaker 1: lab and additional links and resources in the show notes. Plus,

589
00:31:13,120 --> 00:31:15,040
Speaker 1: you can sign up for our newsletter, so check it

590
00:31:15,080 --> 00:31:18,920
Speaker 1: out at Dope labspodcast dot com. Special thanks to today's

591
00:31:18,920 --> 00:31:22,200
Speaker 1: guest expert Drew Hifitz. You can find him on Instagram

592
00:31:22,240 --> 00:31:25,000
Speaker 1: at Drew Hiphiz. That's d r E w h E

593
00:31:25,200 --> 00:31:28,480
Speaker 1: I F E t Z and at Frankie Collective.

594
00:31:28,840 --> 00:31:31,280
Speaker 3: You can find us on Twitter and Instagram at Dope

595
00:31:31,360 --> 00:31:32,720
Speaker 3: Labs Podcast.

596
00:31:32,280 --> 00:31:35,520
Speaker 1: And TT's on Twitter and Instagram at dr Underscore t

597
00:31:35,680 --> 00:31:36,200
Speaker 1: s h O.

598
00:31:36,600 --> 00:31:39,640
Speaker 3: And you can find Zakia on Twitter and Instagram at

599
00:31:39,760 --> 00:31:43,680
Speaker 3: z said So. Dope Labs is a Spotify original production

600
00:31:43,880 --> 00:31:46,800
Speaker 3: from Mega Own Media Group. Our producers are Jenny ratlit

601
00:31:46,920 --> 00:31:50,760
Speaker 3: Maass and Lydia Smith of WaveRunner Studios. Editing in sound

602
00:31:50,760 --> 00:31:55,440
Speaker 3: design by Rob Smerciak, Mixing by Hannes Brown. Original music

603
00:31:55,520 --> 00:32:00,480
Speaker 3: composed and produced by Taka Yasuzawa and Alex Sugier from Spotify.

604
00:32:00,640 --> 00:32:05,600
Speaker 3: Creative producers Candice Manriquez Wren and Corin Gilliard. Special thanks

605
00:32:05,600 --> 00:32:10,360
Speaker 3: to Shirley ramos Yasmine of Fifi, camu Elolia, Till krat

606
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Speaker 3: Key and Brian

607
00:32:11,440 --> 00:32:15,000
Speaker 1: Marquis Executive producers from Mega OH Media Group, r us

608
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Speaker 1: T T Show Dia and Zakiah Wattley