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Speaker 1: Hi, Welcome back to the Carol Markowitch Show on iHeart Review.

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Speaker 1: My guest today is Megan Basham, Daily Wire culture reporter

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Speaker 1: and best selling author of Shepherds for Sale.

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Speaker 2: So nice to have you on, Megan.

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Speaker 3: Thanks for having me, Carol, It's great to be here.

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Speaker 1: I don't feel like we've ever met, because I now

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Speaker 1: that I see you face to face, I'm pretty sure

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Speaker 1: we haven't. But I've been a fan of your work

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Speaker 1: for a very long time and I think you're just

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Speaker 1: a fantastic writer and thinker, and I'm really glad to

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Speaker 1: have you on.

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Speaker 4: It's weird, Like the thing that's weird about like the

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Speaker 4: online social media world is I do feel like I know.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, well, I know we're avatar really well.

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Speaker 1: Exactly, yes, And you've been very open about your fight

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Speaker 1: with correctoral cancer.

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Speaker 2: How are you doing now.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, doing good.

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Speaker 4: So I had surgery a little about a month and

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Speaker 4: a half ago and we got clean margins, which if

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Speaker 4: you know anything about cancer, that's a very good thing.

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Speaker 4: And so just had my first scan and no evidence

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Speaker 4: of disease as right now, So we're really happy about that.

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Speaker 1: So glad to hear that. I've been praying for you

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Speaker 1: I'm really thrilled to hear that. So tell me about yourself.

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Speaker 1: How did you get into this thing of ours that

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Speaker 1: we do, this media world.

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Speaker 3: You know, it was kind of an accident.

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Speaker 4: I was at Arizona State University during the years that

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Speaker 4: it really earned its reputation as a party school, and

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Speaker 4: I did a lot of contributing to that, and I

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Speaker 4: kind of I was an English lit major. I didn't

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Speaker 4: really know what I wanted to do with that, but

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Speaker 4: I started working on my student newspaper. Enjoyed that, enjoyed

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Speaker 4: hanging out with, you know, the student reporters. And so

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Speaker 4: when I graduated, I my husband and I got married

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Speaker 4: and he was a broadcast journalist, which, if you know

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Speaker 4: anything about that world, you move a lot. So you

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Speaker 4: start in small markets and you move up, and so

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Speaker 4: you know, it wasn't really conducive to my holding down

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Speaker 4: a full time job because you know, I'm moving to

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Speaker 4: places like.

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Speaker 3: El Paso and Tucson with him.

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Speaker 4: So I started freelance writing, you know, and I was

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Speaker 4: a conservative for National Review and Weekly Standard and places

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Speaker 4: like that Wall Street Journal, and then I just kind

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Speaker 4: of fell into evangelical magazine writing because you know, I'm

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Speaker 4: an evangelical and it made sense. And I met some

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Speaker 4: friends on some junkets who were working for World Magazine,

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Speaker 4: which is a pretty well known magazine in the evangelical world,

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Speaker 4: and they just gave me a perfect little niche to

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Speaker 4: just hide away in For years. I could work part time,

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Speaker 4: I could write as much as I wanted or pull

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Speaker 4: back when I needed, and so as I was having kids,

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Speaker 4: for you know, ten to fifteen years, I was just

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Speaker 4: very comfortably writing at World Magazine in the evangelical space.

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Speaker 2: And that's how Shepherd's for Sale came about.

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Speaker 3: It did yes.

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Speaker 4: Then, you know, write about twenty nineteen when the Woke

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Speaker 4: Wars started, they very much came into the evangelical world too.

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Speaker 4: So I experienced it in my personal life at our

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Speaker 4: church and some of these big ministries that you know,

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Speaker 4: I worked in was familiar with and did it work.

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Speaker 3: A little bit.

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Speaker 4: And it's actually how I ended up going to the

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Speaker 4: Daily Wire because it was really hard to write about

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Speaker 4: from the inside because there's so much associational networking and

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Speaker 4: nobody wants to burn someone that they know or be

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Speaker 4: critical of someone that they know, and it felt like

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Speaker 4: I couldn't say what I needed to say in house.

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Speaker 4: So I happened to do an interview with Andrew Claven

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Speaker 4: at the Daily Wire.

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Speaker 2: That's so awesome. He's been on a show and.

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Speaker 4: I love him and he just painted this picture, and

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Speaker 4: I kind of on a whim, I was like, Hey,

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Speaker 4: you guys think you have any room.

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Speaker 3: For me over there?

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Speaker 4: And like the next day I knew they were offering

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Speaker 4: me a job, and so I'm like, you know what,

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Speaker 4: I'm going to go And probably my only stipulation, because

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Speaker 4: you know, they really wanted me to write about culture

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Speaker 4: and entertainment, which I wanted to do, but I was

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Speaker 4: my stipulation was can I also write some church articles?

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Speaker 4: I would like to write about what's going on in

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Speaker 4: the church. And they were like, yeah, okay, sure, And

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Speaker 4: that's how it started.

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Speaker 1: So what do you trace down in the book? What's

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Speaker 1: the path you take?

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Speaker 4: So you know, for those who aren't super familiar with

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Speaker 4: the evangelical subculture, it's obviously really important to American politics.

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Speaker 4: We represent roughly twenty five to thirty percent of the

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Speaker 4: American electorate. The Atlantic has rightly called evangelicals America's most

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Speaker 4: powerful voting block, but because they tend not to be

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Speaker 4: in the elite intellectual spaces. A lot of times people

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Speaker 4: don't think about them. I started writing about it because

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Speaker 4: as I was noticing this wokeness come in. And by

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Speaker 4: that I mean things like in my denomination, which is

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Speaker 4: the Southern Baptist Convention, it's the largest Protestant denomination in

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Speaker 4: the US, second denomination only to Catholics.

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Speaker 2: Wow.

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Speaker 4: I saw things like suddenly they were promoting a resolution.

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Speaker 3: And that kind of sets the tone.

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Speaker 4: We have this big meeting every year, resolutions are brought

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Speaker 4: up and promoted and voted on. And a resolution was

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Speaker 4: brought up to adopt critical race theory as a helpful

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Speaker 4: analytical tool.

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Speaker 2: I remember this, Yeah, and that was kind.

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Speaker 4: That was in twenty nineteen, and at that point I

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Speaker 4: was still at World and that was when I really

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Speaker 4: noticed it and what's going on? And you saw it

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Speaker 4: trickle down in small ways to I mean, what you

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Speaker 4: have to understand is that these seminaries in the Southern

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Speaker 4: Baptist Convention educate a plurality of Protestant pastors. So even

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Speaker 4: if you're Presbyterian or Anglican or something else, your pastor

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Speaker 4: may be getting educated in these seminaries. So these things

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Speaker 4: do set the tone for you know, culturally what they're adopting,

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Speaker 4: and so these are the things I was seeing. I mean,

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Speaker 4: we had our president of the Southern Baptist Convention at

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Speaker 4: that time institute racial hiring quotas, basically saying, I want

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Speaker 4: to ensure that sixty percent of the people that I

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Speaker 4: appoint to committees or hire are women or minorities. So

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Speaker 4: all the things you saw happening in the culture were

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Speaker 4: happening in the evangelical subculture, which at least doctrinally is

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Speaker 4: supposed to be conservative, right right, So you know, I

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Speaker 4: was going, what's happening here? And as I started reporting

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Speaker 4: it out, then COVID happened.

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Speaker 3: And I wrote an article on how all.

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Speaker 4: Of these influential evangelical platforms and personalities were promoting lockdowns,

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Speaker 4: church closures, masks, even vaccines, like to the point where

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Speaker 4: it was, you know, there was a push to say

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Speaker 4: love your neighbor, get the shot. You didn't get the shot,

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Speaker 4: you didn't love your neighbor, like Jess says. And so

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Speaker 4: when I did that story, it went very viral, and

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Speaker 4: at that point a publisher approached me and said, hey,

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Speaker 4: have you thought about doing a book on some of

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Speaker 4: these things you're writing about and that gave me the

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Speaker 4: opportunity for like a year to just dig deep. And

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Speaker 4: then you know, you come to find out, oh, there's

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Speaker 4: a reason that some of these big ministries are doing

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Speaker 4: things like promoting open borders policies when it comes to immigration,

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Speaker 4: and it's because they're in bed with groups that are

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Speaker 4: funded by George Soros or the Clinton Foundation or the

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Speaker 4: Gates Foundation. So you started to find out there's actually

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Speaker 4: all this big money coming in from the secular left

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Speaker 4: and it's being used to move that all important evangelical

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Speaker 4: voting block.

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Speaker 1: Absolutely, And you know, it's very reminiscent of you know,

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Speaker 1: when I hear people in red states or red areas

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Speaker 1: say like, oh, the teachers in our community are not

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Speaker 1: going to be crazy leftists, And I'm like, they all

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Speaker 1: get taught at the same teachers college, you know, they're

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Speaker 1: all getting the same kind of curriculum and indoctrination. So

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Speaker 1: I don't know, I don't think you should feel particularly safe,

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Speaker 1: But do you feel like there's been a shift in

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Speaker 1: the right direction in the evangelical world in the last

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Speaker 1: few years, Like, I mean, there's definitely been a vibe

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Speaker 1: shift culturally right. Has it kind of seeped into the

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Speaker 1: evangelical world as well.

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Speaker 4: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: Absolutely.

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Speaker 4: But what's funny about it is what you're hearing now

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Speaker 4: is this conversation about the rehab tour.

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Speaker 3: So you have a lot of guys who push this stuff.

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Speaker 4: For example, the former president of the SBC Convention was

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Speaker 4: one of the guys, like I said, who was promoting

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Speaker 4: the CRT, promoting the racial hiring quotas, and it was

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Speaker 4: like they kind of went silent for a while, and

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Speaker 4: now they're speaking again from a much more conservative viewpoint,

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Speaker 4: and it's kind of the pretend that didn't happen. And

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Speaker 4: you're seeing friends who maybe didn't go as far as

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Speaker 4: they did or weren't out as front as they were

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Speaker 4: in those years, but they're kind of helping them to go, oh,

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Speaker 4: look at this great material that JD. Greer or someone

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Speaker 4: you know is promoting now, and there's an internal discussion

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Speaker 4: amongst us going. So these are guys who are trying

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Speaker 4: to reassert the status quo of saying, you know, we're

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Speaker 4: the leadership without being held to any accountability for what

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Speaker 4: they promoted during that time by sort of just burying

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Speaker 4: it and pretending like that didn't happen. So it's there's

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Speaker 4: definitely been a vibe shift, but not in the sense

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Speaker 4: that anyone's coming out and saying.

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Speaker 3: Hey, I own that I screwed up there. We shouldn't

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Speaker 3: have done that.

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Speaker 4: It's more like, let's just have amnesia and pretend that,

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Speaker 4: you know, those COVID years never happened.

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Speaker 1: Is this a battle that's being kind of pushed down

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Speaker 1: the road or is this going to be a fight internally?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I think it's an ongoing fight.

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Speaker 4: So, I mean, it feels like the peak of the

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Speaker 4: fight was maybe last year, but the ongoing debate about.

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Speaker 3: It hasn't stopped.

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Speaker 4: And in a certain extent, you know, I have sort

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Speaker 4: of counseled friends like, look, when you see some of

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Speaker 4: these guys who are known as weather vanes politically, so

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Speaker 4: even though they're pastors, they may bend with the winds

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Speaker 4: of the culture, and suddenly they're striking a much more

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Speaker 4: conservative tone. You kind of have to take that as

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Speaker 4: a win, like, Okay, yes, we notched a win here

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Speaker 4: that we have moved the overton in a different direction.

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Speaker 4: But at the same time, understandably, there's a lot of

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Speaker 4: lack of trust of saying, okay, but are we going

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Speaker 4: to leave these people in these positions of leadership that

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Speaker 4: really do matter, that really are influential in some of

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Speaker 4: these large institutions. So that's kind of the debate that's

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Speaker 4: going on now, is what is accountability going to look

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Speaker 4: like and are we going to have any Do.

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Speaker 1: You feel optimism? Do you think it's going to turn around?

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Speaker 4: You know, I do in the sense that I don't

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Speaker 4: think those institutions are going to change. So if you

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Speaker 4: look at like large publishing platforms like something called the

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Speaker 4: Gospel Coalition, which were a lot of pastors in the

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Speaker 4: previous era really relied on it as a place to

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Speaker 4: exchange ideas to you know, dive into thinking that maybe

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Speaker 4: they were going to use in their own teaching. Or

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Speaker 4: Christianity today, which you know is still kind of known

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Speaker 4: as the flagship magazine of evangelicalism.

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Speaker 3: It was founded by Billy Graham.

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Speaker 4: I think that there's been a total lack of trust

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Speaker 4: now in those institutions. I don't think those institutions are

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Speaker 4: going to change. They've kind of gone that way. I

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Speaker 4: think they're going to continue to go that way. But

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Speaker 4: I think you have a new generation that just kind

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Speaker 4: of sees them as irrelevant. So I mean, it's interesting

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Speaker 4: to see how the same debates that we're having on

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Speaker 4: a national political level are playing themselves out in this

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Speaker 4: little subculture. Because aren't we doing this politically as well?

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Speaker 3: Going right? Are we going to have any accountability?

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Speaker 4: Is any?

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Speaker 3: Why not? So that's why I go, I don't really

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Speaker 3: think that we will.

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Speaker 4: But I do think that the positive is that I

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Speaker 4: think a lot of people no longer put their trust

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Speaker 4: in those institutions, and that's a good thing.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that's I guess, as hopeful as we can be

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Speaker 1: about it. We're recording this I record these a few

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Speaker 1: weeks in advance, but we're recording this week that the

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Speaker 1: New York Times ever so casually dropped that crime rates

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Speaker 1: kind of developed from the COVID lockdowns and maybe the

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Speaker 1: anti social stuff that we pushed during COVID wasn't actually harmless.

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Speaker 1: It's like, yeah, yeah, it wasn't okay here.

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Speaker 2: But there's no apology or anything.

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Speaker 1: There's no like New York Times being like, and it.

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Speaker 2: Was our fault. We are the ones who actually pushed that.

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Speaker 1: They're like, yeah, somebody pushed this anti social stuff. I

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Speaker 1: don't know how it happened. So I'm not waiting for

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Speaker 1: an apology. But as somebody, you know, I'm Jewish, and

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Speaker 1: in the Jewish world, they two parts of the Jewish

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Speaker 1: world of the three have like veered very, very heavily.

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Speaker 2: To the left.

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Speaker 1: I hope that the Evangelicals don't follow us off of,

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Speaker 1: you know, off that cliff, because I've always had a

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Speaker 1: lot of hope in evangelicals, you know, like they were

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Speaker 1: always kind of the voice of sanity for conservatives in America,

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Speaker 1: and they were doing things their way, and they didn't

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Speaker 1: care about popular opinion, and they didn't care about being

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Speaker 1: liked by the New York Times. And if you guys

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Speaker 1: are heading in a bad, bad place, like, what does

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Speaker 1: that mean for.

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Speaker 2: The rest of us?

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Speaker 4: Yeah, And I don't think that you will see that.

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Speaker 4: I mean, I think, you know, there was a moment

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Speaker 4: where there was maybe this sort of grasping at elite

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Speaker 4: respectability at the top of these institutions. But I think

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Speaker 4: that's why they have lost so much of their credibility,

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Speaker 4: because they went along with the New York Times and

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Speaker 4: all of these other second organizations that were happy to

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Speaker 4: you know, light a bonfire to their credibility.

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Speaker 3: So, you know, I really don't see that.

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Speaker 4: In fact, I think part of the reason my book

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Speaker 4: became a bestseller because I'll be honest. When I was

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Speaker 4: working on it, we thought it would gain an audience, right.

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Speaker 3: We thought it was kind of a niche topic.

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Speaker 4: And when it turned out to have wider interest, I

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Speaker 4: think it was because it wasn't like I was telling

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Speaker 4: people something that they didn't know.

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Speaker 3: It wasn't like they went.

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Speaker 4: Wait, what you're saying that our leaders are compromised and

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Speaker 4: aren't representing our views?

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Speaker 2: Right?

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Speaker 3: It was more like I was just.

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Speaker 4: Coming along and telling them, here's what's been going on

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Speaker 4: in the background of this thing that you already noticed.

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Speaker 4: And so you know, for that reason, I think you

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Speaker 4: see the rank and five all just choosing new leaders,

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Speaker 4: and I mean, look, in.

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Speaker 3: Some ways it's good.

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Speaker 4: It's also going in kind of a weird, fractious direction

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Speaker 4: right now, and I don't know how it's going to

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Speaker 4: play out. Like you've got a lot of little tribal

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Speaker 4: skirmishes happening right now. I don't know if you saw,

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Speaker 4: like on CNN they're interviewing, you know, Doug Wilson, who's

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Speaker 4: known as the Christian nationalist pastor, and will people get

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Speaker 4: behind that or will they get behind you know this

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Speaker 4: more normy, mainstream vision of maybe twenty years ago or

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Speaker 4: what does this look like? So, I mean, that's a

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Speaker 4: debate that's playing out. But what's interesting is to see

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Speaker 4: that these guys who were not a part of that

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Speaker 4: elite circle before are suddenly gaining a following in a

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Speaker 4: way that they didn't, right, And you know, I don't

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Speaker 4: know what the endgame of that is, but I'm entertained

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Speaker 4: sitting back and watching it.

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Speaker 1: Well, I'm rooting for you guys. More coming up with

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Speaker 1: Megan Basham. But first, it was nearly two years ago

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Speaker 1: the terrorists murdered more than twelve hundred innocent Israelis and

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Speaker 1: took two hundred and fifty hostages. Today, it seems as

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Speaker 1: if the cries of the dead and dying have been

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Speaker 1: drowned out by shouts of Antisemitic hatred, and the most

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Speaker 1: brutal attack on Jewish people since the Holocaust has been forgotten.

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Speaker 1: Yet as the world looks away, a light shines in

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Speaker 1: the darkness. It's a movement of love and support for

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Speaker 1: the people of Israel called Flags of Fellowship, and it's

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Speaker 1: organized by the International Fellowship of Christians and Jews and

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Speaker 1: on October fifth, just a few weeks away, millions across

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Speaker 1: America will prayer fully plant an Israeli flag and honor

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Speaker 1: and solidarity with the victims of October seventh, twenty twenty

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Speaker 1: three and their grieving families. And now you can be

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Speaker 1: a part of this movement too. To get more information

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Speaker 1: on how you can join the Flags of Fellowship movement,

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Speaker 1: visit Fellowship online at IFCJ dot org. That's IFCJ dot org.

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Speaker 2: What do you worry about?

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Speaker 3: You know what's funny?

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Speaker 4: Okay, So I'm a Christian, I'm a person of prayer,

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Speaker 4: and one of the number one things in my prayer journal,

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Speaker 4: like every night, is I worry about who my girls.

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Speaker 3: I have two daughters. I worry about who they're going

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Speaker 3: to marry.

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Speaker 4: Because I because I cover the culture beat, I spend

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Speaker 4: a lot of time on this dysfunction between young men

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Speaker 4: and young women and how they're not finding each other.

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Speaker 4: And you know, you and I spend a lot of

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Speaker 4: time on X and it's just like yes, and I

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Speaker 4: used to feel like back in the day, you know,

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Speaker 4: the gender wars were kind of almost a cute, flirtatious

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Speaker 4: thing that we all did. And now it feels like

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Speaker 4: there's something very real and angry underneath it from both sides.

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Speaker 3: And so I worry that.

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Speaker 4: I'm like, are our young men even going to approach

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Speaker 4: them to pursue them for you know, relationships and marriage,

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Speaker 4: because you know, the other thing I know is the

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Speaker 4: research that I've done on a lot of these marriage

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Speaker 4: and family topics is this is so important to women's

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Speaker 4: happy that if they don't have husbands and children, whatever

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Speaker 4: they do in their professional lives, they're not going to

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Speaker 4: achieve that same level of happiness most likely that they

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Speaker 4: would have if they had had those things. So I

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Speaker 4: mean that's probably what I worry. I mean, I literally

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Speaker 4: pray God just bring them good husbands someday.

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Speaker 1: Absolutely yeah, I mean I'm absolutely concerned about that as well.

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Speaker 1: And I think the message to women in a lot

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Speaker 1: of mainstream ways is like you no longer need a spouse,

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Speaker 1: you no longer need a partner, and I think that's

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Speaker 1: just so corrosive. And this is where again religion comes

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Speaker 1: into play. Right, if you have stronger, tighter religious bounds,

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Speaker 1: then you're kind of all heading in the same direction

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Speaker 1: where you understand what kind of spouse you're supposed to

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Speaker 1: be and what kind of marriage you're supposed to have,

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Speaker 1: and that you are supposed to get married, and that

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Speaker 1: you know, don't listen to the liberal media saying that

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Speaker 1: it's so amazing to be single and that's really what

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Speaker 1: you want to do.

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Speaker 2: But if you don't have that strong religion, it all.

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Speaker 1: Kinds of falls apart, and it's filled in by these

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Speaker 1: other sources that are not reliable and not trustworthy, you know.

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Speaker 4: And I've wondered if and I don't know if this

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Speaker 4: is happening in the Jewish subculture, but I can tell

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Speaker 4: you in the Christian subculture. We're talking so much about

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Speaker 4: how young people are coming back to church and they

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Speaker 4: suddenly have an interest in religion that they didn't have before.

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Speaker 4: And I have wondered how much of that is being

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Speaker 4: driven by this sense that, you know, the secular professional

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Speaker 4: world isn't offering these deeper things of home and family,

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Speaker 4: and the only way you're finding other people who want

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Speaker 4: that in the same way you do is to come

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Speaker 4: back to church, come back to synagogue.

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Speaker 3: Right.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, Yeah, it's different in the Jewish world, but I mean,

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Speaker 1: I would say that marriage was always why people turn

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Speaker 1: to religion, not not why, but that played a big role.

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Speaker 1: But it is interesting because I don't think that there

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Speaker 1: are a lot of other ways for people who are

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Speaker 1: marriage minded young people who are marriage minded.

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Speaker 2: To meet each other. So I'm with you.

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Speaker 1: I you know, when I talk about what I want

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Speaker 1: my kids to be or what I want them to do,

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Speaker 1: I'm always like, I want them to get married.

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Speaker 2: And have children.

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Speaker 1: Like career or whatever is a distance second to that.

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Speaker 1: And I get surprised takes from people. People are like,

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Speaker 1: you know, don't you want them to succeed? Don't you

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Speaker 1: care about what they do? You know, professionally, I do,

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Speaker 1: but not even in the same realm as I care

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Speaker 1: about them getting married and having kids.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, And I I mean, and I feel like I'm

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Speaker 4: the we're the opposite is that most people think and

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Speaker 4: the family and marriage stuff will work itself out.

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Speaker 3: It's the career you got to focus on. I'm like, actually,

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Speaker 3: I don't think that's true at all.

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Speaker 4: And you got to focus on the family and marriage

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Speaker 4: and the professional stuff. You'll figure out what you're good at,

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Speaker 4: you'll take things in college, you'll work that out totally.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, And it gets much easier to do that when

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Speaker 1: you have a stable situation.

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Speaker 2: You know, I talk about it a lot on this show.

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Speaker 1: But married men, I've made more money than all other men,

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Speaker 1: you know, for years and years, and now married women

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Speaker 1: make more money than single women. It's because you have

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Speaker 1: this comfort and and security that you can take chances.

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Speaker 1: You could take professional risks and you don't have to

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Speaker 1: do you know, the thing you went to college for.

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Speaker 1: You can take chances because somebody is rooting for you

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Speaker 1: and somebody's able to kind of support you should it

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Speaker 1: not work out.

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Speaker 4: No, I think that's absolutely true. And I was just

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Speaker 4: listening to like an episode of the All In Pod,

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Speaker 4: I think, and you know, they were talking about kind

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Speaker 4: of the economics of it and home buying and how

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Speaker 4: part of the reason that we're seeing this new generation

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Speaker 4: that one they are being priced out of the housing market,

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Speaker 4: but also if you don't have those two incomes combined,

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Speaker 4: it may feel a lot harder to buy a home.

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Speaker 4: So they're not getting in, and as the home prices

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Speaker 4: are going up, it's too late for them to get in,

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Speaker 4: and they're single and they can't afford it, and that's

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Speaker 4: part of the bitterness that's growing. And you know, that's

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Speaker 4: part of what we have to address. And you can't

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Speaker 4: really extricate the marriage and family component out of that.

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Speaker 1: It almost feels like tough love saying that to people,

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Speaker 1: you know, you have to pair up in order for

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Speaker 1: your life's economics to work.

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Speaker 2: But it's not.

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Speaker 1: It's true and it's real, and that's so we should

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Speaker 1: tell people.

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Speaker 4: So I know, I know, and sometimes you know, they

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Speaker 4: get mad at you for saying it, But like, I

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Speaker 4: want the best things for you. That's why I'm saying, right,

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Speaker 4: it's because I want the best for you that I

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Speaker 4: think that you should take the most obvious, best path

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Speaker 4: and take.

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Speaker 2: It from there.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: Absolutely, What advice.

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Speaker 1: Would you give your sixteen year old self? What would

443
00:20:20,880 --> 00:20:22,639
Speaker 1: Megan of sixteen years old need to know?

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00:20:24,640 --> 00:20:26,680
Speaker 3: I would tell her, that's a good question.

445
00:20:27,119 --> 00:20:31,399
Speaker 4: I would tell her to take her ambitions and skills seriously.

446
00:20:32,040 --> 00:20:33,800
Speaker 4: I think when I was that age, and I think

447
00:20:33,840 --> 00:20:36,600
Speaker 4: I probably all the way up until like practically thirty,

448
00:20:36,960 --> 00:20:39,679
Speaker 4: I just kind of always felt like whatever I was

449
00:20:39,720 --> 00:20:42,359
Speaker 4: doing was not really that serious, or whatever I was

450
00:20:42,400 --> 00:20:45,440
Speaker 4: pursuing was just kind of a lark. And I think,

451
00:20:45,600 --> 00:20:47,920
Speaker 4: you know, it wasn't until probably my thirties that I

452
00:20:47,960 --> 00:20:49,640
Speaker 4: started to go, no, you know, this thing that I'm

453
00:20:49,680 --> 00:20:52,520
Speaker 4: interested in this is serious and I should take myself

454
00:20:52,520 --> 00:20:53,960
Speaker 4: and what I'm working on seriously.

455
00:20:54,640 --> 00:20:57,840
Speaker 3: And I don't know why I didn't, but I you know, you.

456
00:20:57,840 --> 00:20:59,480
Speaker 2: Sometimes like imposter syndrome.

457
00:20:59,880 --> 00:21:01,439
Speaker 4: I mean, I guess it is a little bit like

458
00:21:01,480 --> 00:21:04,040
Speaker 4: imposter syndrome, but more in the sense that I didn't

459
00:21:04,040 --> 00:21:07,720
Speaker 4: pursue it with the intensity that I wish I would

460
00:21:07,760 --> 00:21:09,440
Speaker 4: have some of these things that I wanted to write about,

461
00:21:09,440 --> 00:21:11,760
Speaker 4: because I think I felt sheepish, for example, writing about

462
00:21:12,040 --> 00:21:14,840
Speaker 4: marriage and family or church things, because these those didn't

463
00:21:14,840 --> 00:21:19,399
Speaker 4: feel like serious. They're not economics, it's not foreign policy, yeah.

464
00:21:19,040 --> 00:21:21,600
Speaker 2: Which turns out to be like the biggest joke topics.

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Speaker 4: Ever, right, And so I think I kind of felt

466
00:21:24,240 --> 00:21:26,640
Speaker 4: like the things that I was interested in weren't that serious.

467
00:21:26,680 --> 00:21:30,560
Speaker 4: And now I, you know, with the hindsight of years,

468
00:21:30,600 --> 00:21:33,040
Speaker 4: I no, these are actually the most important things, and

469
00:21:33,119 --> 00:21:35,639
Speaker 4: I should have never been embarrassed that this is what

470
00:21:35,680 --> 00:21:36,479
Speaker 4: I'm interested in.

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00:21:37,600 --> 00:21:38,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, I love that. I love that.

472
00:21:39,040 --> 00:21:42,520
Speaker 1: Actually, like telling your younger self, like, take yourself seriously

473
00:21:42,720 --> 00:21:46,080
Speaker 1: and what you're interested in matters. It's I haven't gotten

474
00:21:46,160 --> 00:21:48,680
Speaker 1: that answer before. It's a question I asked all my guests.

475
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Speaker 1: So I really enjoyed that. I've loved this conversation. I

476
00:21:52,400 --> 00:21:55,640
Speaker 1: think you're a beautiful writer, and I just I love

477
00:21:55,640 --> 00:21:57,680
Speaker 1: following you on X. I think you're really smart and

478
00:21:57,920 --> 00:22:00,240
Speaker 1: so much about what you do is just ex and

479
00:22:00,280 --> 00:22:01,080
Speaker 1: excellent work.

480
00:22:01,680 --> 00:22:04,600
Speaker 2: Leave us here with your best tip.

481
00:22:04,440 --> 00:22:07,000
Speaker 1: For my listeners on how they can improve their lives.

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Speaker 4: Same to you, Carol, thank you best tip on I'm

483
00:22:11,680 --> 00:22:13,359
Speaker 4: going to do the church lady thing because that's in

484
00:22:13,480 --> 00:22:14,119
Speaker 4: my bios.

485
00:22:14,320 --> 00:22:16,840
Speaker 3: So I'm going to say, go to church. Start going.

486
00:22:16,880 --> 00:22:17,639
Speaker 3: If you're single.

487
00:22:17,880 --> 00:22:20,240
Speaker 4: It will you know, you may find your person there,

488
00:22:20,280 --> 00:22:22,760
Speaker 4: and you'll certainly find someone who's hopefully more like minded

489
00:22:22,760 --> 00:22:23,760
Speaker 4: than swiping.

490
00:22:23,440 --> 00:22:27,120
Speaker 3: Left on some app. You're married, it'll strengthen your marriage.

491
00:22:27,160 --> 00:22:27,920
Speaker 3: So go to church.

492
00:22:28,920 --> 00:22:29,280
Speaker 2: Love it.

493
00:22:29,520 --> 00:22:32,280
Speaker 1: She is Megan Fasham. Check her out of The Daily Wire.

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00:22:32,400 --> 00:22:35,000
Speaker 1: Buy her book Shepherd's for sale. Thank you so much

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00:22:35,000 --> 00:22:37,000
Speaker 1: for coming on, Megan. Thanks for having me, Carol,