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Speaker 1: I'm in the headquarters of the National Football League, where

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Speaker 1: I've just had a chance to interview the commissioner of

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Speaker 1: the NFL, Roger Goodell, who's now serving his nineteenth year

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Speaker 1: as commissioner, and had a chance to talk with him

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Speaker 1: about issues like international expansion, the popularity of the NFL,

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Speaker 1: and practice private equity firms are now being allowed to

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Speaker 1: invest in the NFL. So today, the NFL is by

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Speaker 1: far the most profitable and largest revenue sports franchise or

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Speaker 1: league in the world, revenue of about twenty billion dollars

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Speaker 1: or so last year, and every team seems to be profitable.

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Speaker 1: The television ratings are very good. What do you think

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Speaker 1: makes the NFL so popular?

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Speaker 2: It always starts with the game, David.

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Speaker 3: I think the game is one of the greatest games,

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Speaker 3: if not the greatest game in the world. The competition

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Speaker 3: is extraordinary, the players, the coaching, Our games are never

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Speaker 3: been closer in history, and I think it brings people

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Speaker 3: together and it does.

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Speaker 2: Well on media.

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Speaker 3: I think the television experience is as great as as

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Speaker 3: anything in television. I think being in the stadiums better,

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Speaker 3: but I think we're fortunate to have a great product. Second,

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Speaker 3: I'd say the business model. I think we have a

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Speaker 3: tremendous business model. I think when you look at the

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Speaker 3: key aspects of revenue sharing and a salary cap that

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Speaker 3: we've designed with our players, that we have something that

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Speaker 3: I think makes every team competitive and I think that's unusual,

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Speaker 3: and they have the finances to be competitive, and I

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Speaker 3: think that's an important element that people overlook. And I

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Speaker 3: think it also is just a it's a statement you

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Speaker 3: know better than I do. You're a great investor, and

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Speaker 3: you know this business better than I do. I think

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Speaker 3: it's a statement on the potential success for Polistically going

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Speaker 3: forward to had a.

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Speaker 1: Number of games overseas in recent years, and in fact,

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Speaker 1: you opened the season going to the opening game in Brazil. Oh,

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Speaker 1: so do you expect to do more overseas games and

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Speaker 1: is that a part of your strategy?

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Speaker 2: It is.

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Speaker 3: We had five last year, we expect to have eight

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Speaker 3: this year, which will be the highest we've ever had.

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Speaker 3: Our hope would be at some stage to get to

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Speaker 3: sixteen games in the next few years.

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Speaker 2: We think we can do that.

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Speaker 3: I think it's an indication of the popularity of our

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Speaker 3: game every time we take our game to a new market.

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Speaker 3: Brazil is a great example of it. The fans go

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Speaker 3: crazy for it. They sold out the tickets in less

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Speaker 3: than ninety minutes. People had a wonderful time. It was

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Speaker 3: the talk of the town, and I think it will

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Speaker 3: be the basis in the sort of the match that

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Speaker 3: lights the excitement and the popularity of the game in

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Speaker 3: that market, as well as what we're doing around the world.

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Speaker 3: So we're very excited by it. It's just one element

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Speaker 3: of that strategy. You need to have television, you need

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Speaker 3: to have activity and participation of the sport, and flight

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Speaker 3: football is a big part of that. So all of

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Speaker 3: those factors I think are going to be what we

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Speaker 3: think will be a very successful formula to be a

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Speaker 3: global sport.

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Speaker 1: Or do you ever envision having a team that's based

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Speaker 1: overseas in Mexico City or in London.

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Speaker 3: Listen, We've talked awful lot about it, and I think

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Speaker 3: there are markets that could, without question support in an

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Speaker 3: NFL franchise. I think there's a lot of issues with

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Speaker 3: expansion of our league that we have to debate on

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Speaker 3: that one. You know, additional teams. We have thirty two now,

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Speaker 3: we think that's a really good number for the NFL.

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Speaker 3: But also I think we would probably look at it

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Speaker 3: potentially as building out by divisions as opposed to individual teams.

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Speaker 3: You have a lot of issues with a team that's

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Speaker 3: in let's say Europe and having to travel over playing games,

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Speaker 3: and teams going back over to Europe to play. I

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Speaker 3: think the competitive issues still need to be worked out.

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Speaker 1: All the Super Bowls have been held in the United States,

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Speaker 1: and they had more than fifty of them so far.

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Speaker 1: Do you ever envision a time when a Super Bowl

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Speaker 1: will be held in a city not in the United States?

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Speaker 3: Always, I think had super Bowl in a city that

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Speaker 3: has a franchise, and I think that's sort of the

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Speaker 3: core principle that we've had. I think if we have

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Speaker 3: an international franchise, I definitely see that happening. I think

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Speaker 3: as we become global, that'll be something that as we

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Speaker 3: have international franchises, that would be logical.

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Speaker 2: So let's talk about one of the franchises.

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Speaker 1: Recently, a team was sold for six billion dollars i'd

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Speaker 1: say about a year ago or so Washington Commanders, for

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Speaker 1: a price that nobody never thought a sports franchise in

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Speaker 1: United States would reach six billion dollars. Were you surprised

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Speaker 1: the price was that high?

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Speaker 3: No, I think one that's a franchise that growing up

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Speaker 3: in Washington I probably have deeper emotional feelings for. But

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Speaker 3: that's a franchise and a great market, and we believe

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Speaker 3: that it's going to be a tremendous success there, and

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Speaker 3: I think Josh Harrison his Limited investors are going to

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Speaker 3: do a great job. I'm not at all surprised that

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Speaker 3: they got to that price.

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Speaker 1: Recently, the NFL allowed private equity firms, including mine, to

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Speaker 1: invest in NFL teams in minority stakes. I think up

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Speaker 1: to ten percent, and a number of these have already

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Speaker 1: been done. In fact, I think valuations are above the

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Speaker 1: six billion dollar level that the commanders received. I think

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Speaker 1: some of the minority stake investments are at least eight

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Speaker 1: billion dollar valuations. So why did you let the bad

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Speaker 1: guys known as the private equity people into the tent

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Speaker 1: and why have you capped it at ten percent?

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Speaker 3: One letting the bad guys in, we really feel like

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Speaker 3: there are things that you all can teach us a

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Speaker 3: little bit about our business and maybe help us think

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Speaker 3: about it a little differently. As you know that ten

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Speaker 3: percent positions a silent position. We believe very strongly in

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Speaker 3: the fact that We like the principal owner approach that

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Speaker 3: we've had for years and other sports have had successfully.

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Speaker 3: So we want to make sure that the controlling owner

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Speaker 3: is the one that makes the decisions on behalf of

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Speaker 3: the club, both at the league level and at the

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Speaker 3: club level.

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Speaker 1: But do you ever envision a time at a sovereign

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Speaker 1: wealth fund could invest directly in a minority stake in

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Speaker 1: the team.

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Speaker 3: I don't think will ever allow institutional in a controlling position,

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Speaker 3: at least in the foreseeable future. Again, I think we

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Speaker 3: feel very strongly about having a principal owner that is

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Speaker 3: there operating the franchise, responsible for that both in the

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Speaker 3: club level as well.

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Speaker 2: As the league level.

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Speaker 1: On television, is that the case that somebody that only

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Speaker 1: subscribes the basic cable can still watch on any of

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Speaker 1: his teams or her team's home games or what are

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Speaker 1: the rules? It's very complicated as to what is you

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Speaker 1: have to pay for what you don't have to pay

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Speaker 1: for today? What is the basic rule that makes it

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Speaker 1: possible for somebody to watch the NFL game for their

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Speaker 1: home team.

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Speaker 3: Well, David I would say, in the NFL, it's about

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Speaker 3: as simple as it gets. We're committed to free television

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Speaker 3: for the home teams the home markets, so not just

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Speaker 3: the home team, but the visiting team. They will get

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Speaker 3: their game on free television.

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Speaker 1: In other words, everybody who wants to watch their home

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Speaker 1: team can watch it on basic television for free.

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Speaker 2: Correct.

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Speaker 1: So now you have the other packages where people want

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Speaker 1: to watch special games or games not their home team,

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Speaker 1: they then sign up for Netflix package or something else

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Speaker 1: like that.

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Speaker 3: We have a few games that are on pay service,

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Speaker 3: but we still are close to ninety percent of our

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Speaker 3: games are on free television for everybody, and I think

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Speaker 3: that is something we're incredibly proud of, and I think

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Speaker 3: it's led to the popularity of our game because people

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Speaker 3: can access it and we give them opportunities to see

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Speaker 3: those games. We have a limited number of packages, whether

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Speaker 3: it's ESPN or whether it's Netflix or Amazon or YouTube

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Speaker 3: or ESPN Plus or our own network where we have

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Speaker 3: I think it's roughly thirty five games that are available

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Speaker 3: and those are pay services of some type, and they've

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Speaker 3: been incredibly successful. We just had a Christmas Day game

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Speaker 3: with Netflix, two games that averaged over thirty million people

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Speaker 3: on a global basis, and those audiences are younger. We're

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Speaker 3: seeing that on some of these new services, and as

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Speaker 3: you know, the media business is changing, and so it's

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Speaker 3: our responsibility to make sure we do what's right the

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Speaker 3: best interest of our game, to partner where we can

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Speaker 3: bring more fans into the game. And so I think

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Speaker 3: we have a nice balance, but we're still very reliant

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Speaker 3: on our original partners, who are never partners.

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Speaker 1: And what about the Taylor Swift effect. Some people say

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Speaker 1: that Taylor Swift is bringing more fans in because they

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Speaker 1: want to watch her watch games, and other people say

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Speaker 1: that she's getting as much attention as her I guess

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Speaker 1: there a boyfriend who's a player for one of the teams,

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Speaker 1: the Kansas City Chiefs. So has had any impact on

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Speaker 1: the NFL or not really that much.

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Speaker 3: No, I think it has had a positive impact. Listen,

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Speaker 3: the most important thing is that two young people, Travis

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Speaker 3: Kelsey and Taylor Swift, seem to have a wonderful relationship

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Speaker 3: and they're both incredible people, which I've had good fortune

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Speaker 3: of getting to know.

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Speaker 2: But we just wish them well.

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Speaker 3: But as far as what it's done, I think, you know,

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Speaker 3: it's brought more interest into our game.

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Speaker 2: Taylor Swift is.

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Speaker 3: One of the greatest entertainers in the world today and

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Speaker 3: I think has a tremendous following, and the fact that

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Speaker 3: she likes football, I think intrigues other people and causes

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Speaker 3: them to, you know, be interested in the game.

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Speaker 2: That's all good thing.

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Speaker 1: Now in the United States, the biggest sporting event every

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Speaker 1: year is the super Bowl.

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Speaker 2: What is super Bowl Week like for you?

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Speaker 1: You have to kind of go go to the city,

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Speaker 1: You have to deal with everybody, You have to be

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Speaker 1: polite to everybody. You can't get upset with everything. But

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Speaker 1: is it just a lot of tension in that that weekend?

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Speaker 1: Do you make the decision on what city you're going

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Speaker 1: to have the super Bowl in and who the entertainment's

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Speaker 1: going to be.

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Speaker 3: Let's start with the selection of it, because it usually

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Speaker 3: happens five years out. It's actually a process we go

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Speaker 3: through to select the super Bowl city. The owners ultimately

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Speaker 3: vote on that and select that city, and then our

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Speaker 3: staff works with that city for roughly five years to

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Speaker 3: get ready for the super Bowl. Super Bowl Week is

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Speaker 3: gotten bigger, It starts earlier. It now starts on Monday

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Speaker 3: night with a big media event, and it's an incredible

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Speaker 3: event that we think is a celebration of football on

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Speaker 3: a global basis, it's a hard week because you're pushed

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Speaker 3: in a lot of different directions. But I couldn't be

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Speaker 3: more honored or more privileged to do it. And it's excitement.

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Speaker 3: And when we have two hundred million people watching the

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Speaker 3: super Bowl, which is what the number was, that's an

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Speaker 3: extraordinary impact and extraordinarily event that you have a lot

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Speaker 3: of responsibilities to pull that off successfully.

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Speaker 1: So do you get people who say they knew you're

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Speaker 1: from high school calling up asking for Super Bowl tickets

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Speaker 1: from time to time or you never get that?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I get that a few times.

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Speaker 1: Yes, you wrote a letter to Pete Roselle when you

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Speaker 1: were in college asking for an internship. This was in

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Speaker 1: the early nineteen eighties, and he responded, I guess positively

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Speaker 1: because you got an internship. Have you ever thought in

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Speaker 1: your wildest imaginations, what would have happened had he not

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Speaker 1: responded positively and where you might be today?

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Speaker 3: Well, he was kind, I don't know about positive. They

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Speaker 3: get a lot of letters and a lot of interest

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Speaker 3: in becoming an intern. It pushed it off to his

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Speaker 3: executive director. I think it was close to fifty three

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Speaker 3: letters later when I got the internship. I see, so

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Speaker 3: it wasn't an immediate response and you've got a job.

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Speaker 3: It took almost a year before that happened. But I

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Speaker 3: have no idea what I'd be doing today if it

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Speaker 3: wasn't being here at the NFL.

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Speaker 1: So you didn't have any idea of doing something important

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Speaker 1: like private equity if you hadn't gotten into the guys.

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Speaker 2: Too smart for me, David, I doubt that.

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Speaker 1: So to people that are watching now and say, what

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Speaker 1: did he put in his letter that was so persuasive

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Speaker 1: to get an internship at the NFL, What did you

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Speaker 1: say that future people that want to write letters to

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Speaker 1: people like you should put in their letter.

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Speaker 3: Well, I have a copy of it actually over there,

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Speaker 3: but I would say it wasn't what was written in

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Speaker 3: the letter. I think it was the fact that I

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Speaker 3: wrote fifty three times. At one point, the executive director said,

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Speaker 3: if you're ever in New York, come by, and I said, well,

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Speaker 3: I happen to be in New York. He said, well,

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Speaker 3: can you come buy at eight o'clock? I said, of course.

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Speaker 3: The problem I was in Pittsburgh, so I drove all

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Speaker 3: night to get there. And I think you just have

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Speaker 3: to take advantage of your opportunities and distinguish yourself in

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Speaker 3: some ways of what you deeply what you're deeply passionate about,

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Speaker 3: and what you think you can create value for someone.

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Speaker 2: Let's talk about your own background for a moment. Where

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Speaker 2: were you born.

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Speaker 1: Jamestown, New York. I grew up in Washington, d c.

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Speaker 1: Though Jamestown, New York. And what did your parents do?

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Speaker 2: My mother was a nurse. My father was a politician.

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Speaker 1: He was a congressman who was appointed by Nelson Rockefeller

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Speaker 1: at one point to succeed the assassinated Robert F. Kennedy,

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Speaker 1: and he became a Senator. Is that right? That's nineteen

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Speaker 1: sixty eight. And then your family moved to Washington then

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Speaker 1: or you were We moved to Washington at fifty nine

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Speaker 1: when I was born, actually so he could serve in Congress.

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Speaker 1: So people may not remember this, but your father was

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Speaker 1: very famous because he had appointed as a moderate Republican

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Speaker 1: by Nelson Rockefeller, also a Republican, and then he opposed

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Speaker 1: the war in Vietnam under Richard Nixon and then the

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Speaker 1: Johnson I guess as well, and that became very difficult

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Speaker 1: for him politically because many Republicans at that time wanted

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Speaker 1: to support let's say Richard Nixon and didn't feel that

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Speaker 1: a Republican opposed the Vietnam War was a good Republican,

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Speaker 1: let's put it that way. So was that difficult for

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Speaker 1: you or you're proud of your father had done at

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Speaker 1: the time, because many people were younger at the we're

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Speaker 1: against the Vietnam War.

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Speaker 3: Well, I couldn't be proud of my father and the

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Speaker 3: courage you took for him to do something that he

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Speaker 3: knew was the right thing to do. It wasn't popular,

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Speaker 3: and he knew at the time that he would likely

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Speaker 3: lose his seat and lose the election, but he did

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Speaker 3: it anyhow. And I think when we were young, he

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Speaker 3: actually gathered us around I'm one of five boys with

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Speaker 3: my mother and father and said, I'm going to do this,

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Speaker 3: but I will likely lose the election.

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Speaker 2: But that was a lesson that.

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Speaker 3: Stays with me to this day, that you have to

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Speaker 3: do the right things, regardless of the consequences.

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Speaker 1: So let's go back to your growing up. You grew

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Speaker 1: up in Washington, but then you moved back to New

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Speaker 1: York after he lost the election, and then you went

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Speaker 1: back to where did you live afterwards, Broxville, New York. Bronxville,

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Speaker 1: and then you went to high school in Bronxville. Yes,

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Speaker 1: and you were a three sports star, as I understand it,

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Speaker 1: you were in football, basketball, and baseball and the captain

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Speaker 1: of all all three of those teams in your high school.

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Speaker 1: So she went to Washington Jefferson College in Pennsylvania. Yes,

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Speaker 1: and when you graduated, then you wrote your famous letter

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Speaker 1: to the NFL. But what were you doing when you

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Speaker 1: were waiting to hear back.

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Speaker 2: From the NFL.

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Speaker 1: Were you doing, you know, working in a McDonald's or

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Speaker 1: something like that.

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Speaker 2: I wasn't.

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Speaker 3: I took some time after the summer after after I graduated,

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Speaker 3: and I focused on what I wanted to do. I eventually,

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Speaker 3: because I did not hear back from the NFL in

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Speaker 3: a positive way until I think February of the year

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Speaker 3: after I graduated, I worked in the steel industry.

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Speaker 2: Briefly.

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Speaker 3: I worked for Jones and Lachlan Steel, which was a

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Speaker 3: good experience for me in a management training program.

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Speaker 1: So eventually you get the job of the NFL you

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Speaker 1: worked for. Then the commissioner was Pete Rosel, who was

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Speaker 1: the longest serving commissioner. You're the second longest serving I guess,

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Speaker 1: is that right? I think that may be true. I

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Speaker 1: hadn't thought about that. So Pete Rosel, who was the

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Speaker 1: person who helped orchestrate he became commission, was only thirty

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Speaker 1: three years old and when the AFL and the NFL

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Speaker 1: came together.

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Speaker 2: So what were you actually doing in the early years.

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Speaker 3: Well, I was an intern in the public relations department,

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Speaker 3: so I did a little bit of everything, and I

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Speaker 3: guess maybe my two big breaks for the Jets at

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Speaker 3: once point needed an intern late in the preseason, and

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Speaker 3: they asked if I wanted to go over and do that,

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Speaker 3: and so I had a chance to be with the

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Speaker 3: Jets for one season, and it was a remarkable experience

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Speaker 3: for me to be on the club level and understand

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Speaker 3: what they go through, you know it it's different than

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Speaker 3: what we do in the league level, and it was

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Speaker 3: incredibly valuable experience.

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Speaker 2: But I went back after the season.

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Speaker 3: I was actually asked by one of the coaches, the

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Speaker 3: defensive coordinator Joe Gardy, just stay and be an assistant coach,

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Speaker 3: and I decided I want to go back to the NFL.

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Speaker 3: Even though I didn't really have an opportunity there. I

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Speaker 3: was still an intern for another year and a half.

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Speaker 3: I thought it was the right thing and what I

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Speaker 3: wanted to do. Roselle was a hero of mine and

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Speaker 3: I wanted to work for him, and I loved I

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Speaker 3: thought the NFL played a really important role in society

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Speaker 3: and had a great future.

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Speaker 1: So we ever thought of you'd stayed with the Jets,

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Speaker 1: you could one day have become a football coach at

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Speaker 1: the NFL.

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Speaker 2: I could have.

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Speaker 3: I probably wouldn't be with the Jets anymore after that,

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Speaker 3: as you know, their tenure doesn't last very long.

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Speaker 2: So I think I made the right choice. David.

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Speaker 1: So in two thousand and six you became the commissioner, Yes,

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Speaker 1: and so now people are probably wondering what does the

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Speaker 1: commissioner actually do. It's a great title, the commissioner, but

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Speaker 1: it's an awkward position in a sense that you're employed

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Speaker 1: by the owners, but you have to sometimes penalize the

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Speaker 1: employers if they do something wrong. You have to find

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Speaker 1: them sometimes and sometimes they're not happy with you. How

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Speaker 1: does that work when you have to please the people

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Speaker 1: who are your employers, but also sometimes you have to

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Speaker 1: find them.

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Speaker 3: Well, I always say, just don't get twenty four owners

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Speaker 3: in one day pissed off at you.

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Speaker 2: That's one thing, right.

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Speaker 3: But I think the real issue here is, yes, you're

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Speaker 3: hired by the owners, they select you. But I think

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Speaker 3: the commissioner's ultimate role is to protect the integrity of

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Speaker 3: the game and to grow the game, and that happens

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Speaker 3: by balancing a lot of interest, including players and coaches

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Speaker 3: and owners and partners and the general public and our fans.

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Speaker 3: There Ultimately, you work for all of them, and that's

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Speaker 3: how I look at this job. I look at this

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Speaker 3: job as I have responsibility to each one of them

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Speaker 3: to make sure that we secure this game for the future,

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Speaker 3: that we put the best product on the field, and

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Speaker 3: that our game continues to grow in a.

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Speaker 2: Way that I think people are proud of.

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Speaker 3: And so the thing I'm most proud of is not

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Speaker 3: just the quality of the game, but the fact that

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Speaker 3: the NFL has become the big tent that brings people together,

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Speaker 3: and ultimately, I think I think it's one of the

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Speaker 3: few things it does bring people together in today's society.

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Speaker 1: So when you're a sports fan, one of the pleasures

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Speaker 1: of being a sports fan is you get the root

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Speaker 1: for your team. But you can't root for anybody, I assume, right.

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Speaker 3: I always say, and this is true. I root for

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Speaker 3: the team. It's behind, okay, and the officials.

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Speaker 1: But when you're in a game, how many games do

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Speaker 1: you typically go to it a year?

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Speaker 2: Roughly twenty five to thirty, Right.

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Speaker 1: So when you go to a game, everybody's watching you.

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Speaker 1: You can't when somebody does a great plague, you can't

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Speaker 1: jump up and say great, because you're rooting for one

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Speaker 1: team if you do that. So how do you sit

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Speaker 1: there kind of passively watching a games.

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Speaker 3: Well, I'm okay with rooting for a great play because

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Speaker 3: that's what we look to see, right, That's one of

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Speaker 3: the things people come for, is a great play.

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Speaker 2: I don't root for a specific team.

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Speaker 1: And do you ever go in the locker rooms and

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Speaker 1: talk to the players or see the players or you

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Speaker 1: try to avoid that?

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Speaker 3: No, I try to see them, probably well before the game.

403
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Speaker 3: When you're getting ready for a football game and you're

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Speaker 3: in the locker room, the last person you want to

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Speaker 3: see as a commissioner. So I choose carefully when I

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Speaker 3: see them. But I spend a lot of time talking

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Speaker 3: and communicating with players. I think it's important to understand

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Speaker 3: their perspective. They're incredibly smart and passionate about the game

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Speaker 3: and have a really important perspective.

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Speaker 2: That is important for us to hear. So on the commissioner.

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Speaker 1: When you're dealing with players, you have to find them

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Speaker 1: sometimes too, is that awkward to find them? And you're

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Speaker 1: sometimes you had to find I think or not a fine,

414
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Speaker 1: but you had to deal with Tom Brady and the

415
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Speaker 1: famous deflateon gate issue.

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Speaker 3: The policies and the rules of the league are paramount,

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Speaker 3: and so whether it's an owner, whether it's a club executive,

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Speaker 3: whether it's a player, whether it's a coach. If there

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Speaker 3: are violations, you deal with that with discipline, whether that's

420
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Speaker 3: fine and or suspensions ultimately, and it's important that you

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Speaker 3: be thoughtful on that. It's not my favorite part of

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Speaker 3: the job, and thankfully it's a small part of my job.

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Speaker 3: But when I first came into this position, it was

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Speaker 3: clear that we needed to make some changes with respect

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Speaker 3: to enforcement of our policies, particularly off the field, because

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Speaker 3: they reflect on every single player, or every single coach,

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Speaker 3: or every single club.

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Speaker 2: And our fans.

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Speaker 3: And so we wanted to raise that bar and we

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Speaker 3: wanted to make sure the great people who played this game,

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Speaker 3: coach this game, and are involved with this game, we're

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Speaker 3: meeting the highest possible standards on and off the field.

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Speaker 1: So would you recommend to people that they aspire to

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Speaker 1: become commissioner because that's such a great job, or you

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Speaker 1: say not for another ten years or so.

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Speaker 3: Should somebody wanted to commissioned? No, I encourage it, as

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Speaker 3: a matter of fact. I've met several people. But I think, listen,

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Speaker 3: there's a timeframe and how long you do this job.

439
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Speaker 3: And I think you know, as you said, Peter Roseill

440
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Speaker 3: did this twenty nine years. I'm nineteen now, there'll be

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Speaker 3: a time when it's needed to be a change that's

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Speaker 3: in the best interest in the NFL.

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Speaker 1: And that's an important thing. When you're very young. You're

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Speaker 1: too young to president of the United States. Presidents are

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Speaker 1: in their late seventies these days, and you're just sixty five.

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Speaker 1: I guess so you've got a ways to go. You've

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Speaker 1: signed a new contract. I think that extends your term

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Speaker 1: through twenty twenty seven. So have you thought about anything

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Speaker 1: past there? Or it's too early to say?

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Speaker 3: No, I have a full day. It takes up a

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Speaker 3: lot of my focus and thoughts. That's where I keep it.

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Speaker 2: Thanks for listening to hear more of my interviews.

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Speaker 1: You can subscribe and Download my podcast on Spotify, Apple,

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Speaker 1: or wherever you listen