Speaker 1: Pushing.
Speaker 2: I'm khalide Yabron Muhammad.
Speaker 1: I'm Ben Austin. We are two best friends, one black,
Speaker 1: one white.
Speaker 2: I'm a historian and I'm a journalist. And this is
Speaker 2: some of my best friends are.
Speaker 1: Oh no, no, no, no, I'm not you know, some
Speaker 1: of my best friends are. You know. In this show,
Speaker 1: we wrestle with the challenges and the absurdencies of a
Speaker 1: deeply divided and unequal country.
Speaker 2: Today on the show, we are talking with writer Samantha Irbie.
Speaker 2: She's an author, comedian, and TV writer. Her essay collections
Speaker 2: We Are Never Meeting in real life and Wow, No
Speaker 2: Thank You are New York Times bestsellers, and heratest collection
Speaker 2: out this year is called Quietly Hostile and believe me
Speaker 2: when I tell you it is hilarious.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Man, you should be laughing already. I mean, Samantha RBI's
Speaker 1: writing is so honest. She makes public what most people
Speaker 1: keep private, and man, she's the kind of funny that
Speaker 1: both hurts and feels good at the same time. We
Speaker 1: are so grateful to talk to her about embarrassing moments
Speaker 1: she's had about mental health and parenting, and her work
Speaker 1: on the latest season of The Sex in the City Reboot.
Speaker 2: Yes, let's do it.
Speaker 1: Let's do it. I promise you you're gonna laugh. Okay, all right,
Speaker 1: all right, Samantha Irbie, welcome to some of my best friends.
Speaker 3: Are thank you for having me? What a provocative title
Speaker 3: for a podcast boom?
Speaker 1: Yeah, but you know I came up with it.
Speaker 3: I mean, I know the white person came up with it.
Speaker 2: Come on, but that's exactly how white people do. They
Speaker 2: just take credit for shit they didn't actually do.
Speaker 1: So, yes, we to revisionist history. So sam I got
Speaker 1: a question for you though, because I read in your
Speaker 1: new book that you said you always regret being on podcasts,
Speaker 1: and we were like, oh shit, like you know, so
Speaker 1: what do we need to know not to fuck this up?
Speaker 1: For you?
Speaker 3: Well, it's never the host. It's always me. It's always
Speaker 3: my inability to present myself as a smart and capable person.
Speaker 3: So you, oh my god, will.
Speaker 1: I have to say that? That that feels a little
Speaker 1: bit like like a breakup line, like it's not you,
Speaker 1: it's me.
Speaker 3: That's true.
Speaker 2: Well, we have incredible editors, so you're gonna sound amazing.
Speaker 2: They make us sound just just one.
Speaker 3: They put a couple more wrinkles in my brain that
Speaker 3: would help.
Speaker 2: So you have recently published another book, Quietly Hostile, a
Speaker 2: book of essays, and man, are you just raw and
Speaker 2: raunchy and riotous and hilarious?
Speaker 3: Yeah? Yeah, cover of the reprint.
Speaker 2: How did you become a humorist? I mean, you know,
Speaker 2: we are really interested, We try our best to be funny.
Speaker 2: We have moments, but you do it for a living,
Speaker 2: and you you write incredibly, So like, is there a
Speaker 2: moment when you were a kid and you you told
Speaker 2: a joke, like on the playground in grade school and
Speaker 2: you're like, fuck, and not only did I just insult
Speaker 2: that person, but I'm hilarious too, Like, tell us, tell
Speaker 2: us your origin story of becoming a humorous Well, First.
Speaker 3: Of all, humorous sounds very fancy for what I do,
Speaker 3: so thank you for giving me a fancy title. Growing up,
Speaker 3: I definitely did not think, oh, I'm gonna tell jokes
Speaker 3: for a living. Like I grew up poor with mean
Speaker 3: old black people who were like, you have to work,
Speaker 3: Like you have to take care of yourself, you have
Speaker 3: to work. So I think, like my defense mechanism as
Speaker 3: a kid who was like fat and poor and had
Speaker 3: messed up teeth and like never had the right fashion
Speaker 3: or whatever. Was to develop a sense of humor, because
Speaker 3: if I laugh first, it takes the sting out of
Speaker 3: when other people do it. And so I think I
Speaker 3: became like pretty self deprecating early, and that's an easy
Speaker 3: way to become beloved, which is really my singular goal
Speaker 3: is to have people like love me. I mean, this
Speaker 3: is like a first date. I'm expecting you both to
Speaker 3: love me at.
Speaker 1: The end, right now, right now.
Speaker 3: But when I mean I started writing my blog in
Speaker 3: two thousand and eight, I started writing a blog on MySpace,
Speaker 3: and I knew I was like, you know, you're conversationally funny,
Speaker 3: You're funny at a bar or whatever. I knew I
Speaker 3: had that going for me, and I started this blog
Speaker 3: to convince this dude to have sex with me, to
Speaker 3: prove that I'm a writer.
Speaker 2: It worked, Hey, way to go, oh wait, wait wait,
Speaker 2: So I have to clarify this.
Speaker 1: So it was the quality of.
Speaker 2: The writing that convinced the guy to have sex with you,
Speaker 2: or that what you said in the blog convinced the
Speaker 2: guy to have said.
Speaker 3: Okay, let's be for real. I could poke a hole
Speaker 3: in a box and get a man to have sex
Speaker 3: with it. So I don't know that the writing, but
Speaker 3: it was because he told me like he was into
Speaker 3: girls who were writers, and I was like, oh, I'm
Speaker 3: a writer, but I had nothing to show for it.
Speaker 3: So then I started this little blog and it's like, look,
Speaker 3: I'm funny, right, And then he agreed.
Speaker 2: That may be the nerdiest sex story I've ever heard.
Speaker 3: It was so dumb. I mean, in hindsight, like it
Speaker 3: feels a little like pathetic. But I don't know that
Speaker 3: I would have started blogging for any other reason than
Speaker 3: trying to convince people to date me. So thank you
Speaker 3: to that dude.
Speaker 1: It worked. It worked.
Speaker 2: You've become an incredible writer, and according to what you
Speaker 2: write in your latest book, you've had lots of sex.
Speaker 1: This is a week.
Speaker 3: Yeah, not anymore. I'm done because I'm married to a woman.
Speaker 3: We don't have to do that. We just talk about
Speaker 3: what our cats are doing.
Speaker 1: So, and Sam, I want to ask you, so, Khalil
Speaker 1: and I are both Chicago people. We grew up on
Speaker 1: the South Side of Chicago together, and you're from what
Speaker 1: we call Chicago Land. You're from Evanston, and I wonder like,
Speaker 1: is there something Chicago or Chicago landish about your brand
Speaker 1: of humor.
Speaker 3: Well, oh that's a good question. Yes, I am from Evanston.
Speaker 3: People from Chicago do not allow you to say you're
Speaker 3: from Chicago if you are from Evanston. So I'm from Evanston.
Speaker 3: Chicago has a huge what we call live lit community,
Speaker 3: like a storytelling community. And I think shortly after I
Speaker 3: started writing my little dumb blog, which was just for
Speaker 3: my friends, I had no aspirations to do anything with.
Speaker 1: It, never monitor in the name of the blog.
Speaker 3: Bitch has gotta eat, bit just got to eat. So
Speaker 3: I started like writing to perform in front of like
Speaker 3: crowds and bars. There was a show at the Burlington,
Speaker 3: at the Hideout at the Horseshoe, Like, I'm like all
Speaker 3: of those shows, and I definitely was writing to get
Speaker 3: to the like to move those audiences. So I definitely
Speaker 3: think Chicago shaped like what what I think is funny
Speaker 3: based on how people respond.
Speaker 1: To Ye, I like that. I like that. And Sam,
Speaker 1: I mean, you write in this book and you say
Speaker 1: that you are embarrassed all the time. Yeah, and even
Speaker 1: you know you're embarrassed of yourself. Yeah, And and I
Speaker 1: wonder what it means then to reveal the most embarrassing
Speaker 1: things about yourself, Like, what's the power in that? I mean,
Speaker 1: you have old essays about shitting in public, about finding
Speaker 1: not not like not in a toilet. Let me let
Speaker 1: me be clear about the finding public toilet.
Speaker 3: That's how I start saying it from that not in
Speaker 3: a toilet.
Speaker 1: You have an essay about the kind of porn you
Speaker 1: like or don't like. I mean, you are you reveal
Speaker 1: everything that's inside that you feel uncomfortable about. You you
Speaker 1: make public, and so what's the power in that of
Speaker 1: doing that?
Speaker 3: I think for me, it's about like connecting with people
Speaker 3: who feel the same way or who can relate or
Speaker 3: identify in some way. Like that is where the strength.
Speaker 3: I don't know that I receive it, but I do
Speaker 3: enjoy like providing it. So like if you are poop
Speaker 3: shy and you read one of my books and then
Speaker 3: the next time you're at a restaurant and you're like, uh,
Speaker 3: I have to poop, you could say to the table
Speaker 3: lit I'm going to be back in twenty two minutes.
Speaker 3: Order your apps, get cocktails. I will be back. I'm like,
Speaker 3: if I can free someone else to do that, then
Speaker 3: it's worth it.
Speaker 1: It's worth I'm gonna My wife needs to read this,
Speaker 1: then she really is, Oh is she poop shy? She's
Speaker 1: a little poop shy in front of you reason And
Speaker 1: what's fun? I read this like Khalil is like not
Speaker 1: only the least poop shy of any person I've ever met,
Speaker 1: Like he's not self conscious in any way, Like I've
Speaker 1: known him since we were children, and he is just
Speaker 1: like so comfortable in his skin in the sense that
Speaker 1: like the subjects that you write about, he wouldn't even
Speaker 1: think to write about them because he's like, oh, these
Speaker 1: are like what these aren't taboo? You just do them.
Speaker 1: Like like he farted in class when we were in
Speaker 1: high school, when he was giving a speech in front
Speaker 1: of the class. I would still wake up in sweats
Speaker 1: thirty years later remembering that moment, and Khalil was like
Speaker 1: in that moment, was like looked up at the class,
Speaker 1: was like I just farted.
Speaker 2: I didn't know what I didn't know what else to do.
Speaker 2: I was so I was embarrassed by it. I was like,
Speaker 2: everybody clearly heard this, so I have to just acknowledge
Speaker 2: it because I was mortifying. Yeah, so I have a
Speaker 2: I have a self deprecating story to tell about pooping because.
Speaker 1: As I was reading your book. As I was reading.
Speaker 2: As I was reading your book, I could not help
Speaker 2: but think about this moment. So I ran the Schomberg
Speaker 2: Center for Researching by Culture, a Harlem institution.
Speaker 1: Go ahead, Ben, we have a drinking game that each
Speaker 1: time you mentioned Harvard or the Schomberg we everyone did
Speaker 1: get the drink.
Speaker 2: All right, fine, god, okay, all right, so we got
Speaker 2: that out of the way.
Speaker 1: Okay. So so it's like the first.
Speaker 2: Two months on the job and we're having a social
Speaker 2: on a Friday afternoon in like late July, and so
Speaker 2: you know, the whole staff is there and it's kind
Speaker 2: of like, let's get to know our new director. So
Speaker 2: I go to the bathroom just before this moment.
Speaker 1: I come out.
Speaker 2: I am in like a sharp suit without the without
Speaker 2: the coat, but I have on, you know, slacks, a
Speaker 2: very press shirt and a tie. And I'm milling about
Speaker 2: meeting people like, hey, what are you doing this weekend?
Speaker 2: I'm trying to get to know these folks who are
Speaker 2: looking at me very suspiciously because they're like, we don't
Speaker 2: really know you. And one woman taps me on the
Speaker 2: shoulder and she says, you have toilet paper coming out
Speaker 2: the back of your pass. So I was like, what
Speaker 2: could be more embarrassing than literally having toilet paper because
Speaker 2: you just took a ship before you came meeting.
Speaker 3: Not to minimize your horror, yeah, exactly, like I see you,
Speaker 3: I respect you, and that ain't that ain't nothing? All right?
Speaker 1: So so so, Sam, So I.
Speaker 2: Have a follow up about one of your series, and
Speaker 2: just so this whole story about the guy you were
Speaker 2: dating a couple of fours below you. He has a
Speaker 2: pee fetish, and the way you tell the story like
Speaker 2: it ends in this crazy moment. So just just for
Speaker 2: our listeners, just give the quick version of that story.
Speaker 3: I dated this dude who I met in the laundry room.
Speaker 3: Now I'm not very discerning, is I guess what we're
Speaker 3: going to get to the bottom of here. But he
Speaker 3: was so hot, Oh my god, I met him. We
Speaker 3: started hanging out. He was cool, He was so good
Speaker 3: in bed, like beyond, which I think is why when
Speaker 3: he asked if I would be on him, I considered
Speaker 3: it because I was not doing it as a deal breaker,
Speaker 3: then I'm gonna do it. But logistically, I mean, you know,
Speaker 3: a Rogers Park apartment building. He had a tiny I mean,
Speaker 3: we all had a tiny bathtub, and that is the
Speaker 3: best place for or piss play because it goes right
Speaker 3: down the drain. After I practiced and got good at it.
Speaker 3: One time he collected it in his mouth and then
Speaker 3: he spit it back down my throat, which maybe is hot.
Speaker 3: I don't want to yuck anybody's yum, but I thought
Speaker 3: I was going to pass away. Not good for you.
Speaker 3: But if you are got into that, it's not a
Speaker 3: good surprise.
Speaker 1: That is fucking funny.
Speaker 3: I was so mad I had to let break up
Speaker 3: with him. You can't. I can't drink my own piss,
Speaker 3: my own leg recycled baby birded piss Lilla.
Speaker 2: Listen, we are going to take a short break and
Speaker 2: talk to sam Erbie a bit more about how she
Speaker 2: lives her life and makes so much fun and enjoy
Speaker 2: out of it.
Speaker 1: We'll be right back.
Speaker 2: Welcome back to some of my best friends are We
Speaker 2: are talking to the author and humorist Samantha Irby, author
Speaker 2: of her latest book Quietly Hostile. So we know from
Speaker 2: your book that you got a COVID dog just like
Speaker 2: tell us about.
Speaker 3: A Abe is a nightmare creature from hell. We Kirsten,
Speaker 3: my wife, didn't want a dog. I mean I didn't really.
Speaker 3: I'm a cat person, Like officially, I didn't really want
Speaker 3: a job either. But it was like the height of
Speaker 3: COVID and we're in this tiny house. It's me, her
Speaker 3: and her two kids, and I think, just for the
Speaker 3: diversion of it, she started looking at dogs on the
Speaker 3: spca's website. She found a dog, a little tiny Chihuahua
Speaker 3: who was a million years old, named Granny, and it
Speaker 3: was like, she hates walking, she only likes cuddling and eating.
Speaker 3: And I was like, oh, that's me as a dog.
Speaker 3: Let's get her. And somebody adopted her before we could.
Speaker 3: And the dog that they had left was Abe, who
Speaker 3: is a At the time, he was a six month
Speaker 3: old Chihuahua mix. He's I mean, he is really the worst.
Speaker 3: He hates me. I mean he tolerates me, but he
Speaker 3: only loves the white people in the house. He's a
Speaker 3: little bit racist, even though he's a POC as well.
Speaker 3: I'm like, come on, Chihuahua yet with the brown yeah,
Speaker 3: with the brown team. This dog is anti black. He
Speaker 3: even though I'm very nice to him, but he just
Speaker 3: he's too dumb to train like he does a lot
Speaker 3: of stuff that I'm like, Man, look at that dumb dog,
Speaker 3: but I hate him, but we'll have him forever because
Speaker 3: he weighs eleven pounds and tiny dogs live like twenty years.
Speaker 3: So I'm hoping that we can grow fond of each other.
Speaker 1: And Sam, I want to I want to talk more
Speaker 1: about COVID because yeah, I mean, so we're talking about
Speaker 1: COVID dogs, but your book is really a COVID book. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's about it's about you know, these stories that you
Speaker 1: tell or are living through the pandemic. And I don't
Speaker 1: think you I think you maybe say this in the book,
Speaker 1: but I know I've heard you in an interview say
Speaker 1: that you were diagnosed with obsessive compulsive disorder, and I mean, there,
Speaker 1: I'm not minimizing this in any way, but there are
Speaker 1: ways that I mean, I know that during COVID I
Speaker 1: became obsessive about all kinds of things, like you know,
Speaker 1: we're going crazy locked up in the house. Is I
Speaker 1: saw a psychiatrist for the first time ever in my
Speaker 1: life during COVID, and so yeah, I just want to
Speaker 1: hear more about about that moment for you, and you know,
Speaker 1: I mean even maybe for you Khalil.
Speaker 3: So the the pandemic, I was like, oh, this is great.
Speaker 3: I hate going outside, I hate interacting with people. It's
Speaker 3: my time to shine. And one of the things that
Speaker 3: happened like, I don't think I left the house for
Speaker 3: the first year and I'm not exaggerating, and it's hard
Speaker 3: to it's hard to know what you're like when you
Speaker 3: don't have other people to bounce it off of, right,
Speaker 3: when you don't see how what you're doing in relationship
Speaker 3: to other people. And as soon as we were like
Speaker 3: out in the worlds a little more, I noticed that
Speaker 3: my anxiety, my like nervousness, was ratcheted up. I was
Speaker 3: super and I still am hyper vigilant. I was always
Speaker 3: just waiting for someone to hit me or attack me
Speaker 3: or yell at me for doing something wrong, even though
Speaker 3: I wasn't doing anything. And I think being in you know,
Speaker 3: being sort of closed off for for like two years,
Speaker 3: woke up the OCD beef, yeah, and I was like,
Speaker 3: I don't feel like I understand myself. I'm scared of
Speaker 3: things that are not scary. What am I doing? And
Speaker 3: so I got a psychiatrist and I, you know, everybody
Speaker 3: self diagnosis a little bit I did not expect OCD,
Speaker 3: Like she was asking about all these random things that
Speaker 3: I didn't think were anything, and she was like, you
Speaker 3: have so many OCD patterns and behaviors. I'm sure you're
Speaker 3: really struggling. And I was like, I am. And so
Speaker 3: now I'm on three hundred and fifty milligrams of zoloft
Speaker 3: every day and I am not fixed, but the sort
Speaker 3: of noise in my head has been quieted a little.
Speaker 3: I feel like a little more normal.
Speaker 1: I had a psychiatry psychiatrist experience that didn't really work out,
Speaker 1: and meaning.
Speaker 2: Like I'm not I'm not surprised, No, I am.
Speaker 1: I'm the opposite of Khalil, like I don't like talking
Speaker 1: about myself. I'm like uncomfortable about it. And just what
Speaker 1: you said, Sam of like your psychiatrist being like, oh
Speaker 1: here's what I'm seeing. My psychiatrist would never do that,
Speaker 1: and she would say, oh, that must that must have
Speaker 1: been really tough. And so then I'd say like, hey,
Speaker 1: this is kind of weird. Can you tell me what, like,
Speaker 1: like what patterns you're seeing or like what you're making
Speaker 1: of this? And she she could. I dreaded these appointments
Speaker 1: because I was like this is just gonna be like
Speaker 1: a drag.
Speaker 3: Yeah. I know. Some people with psychiatrists have the opposite problem,
Speaker 3: where they want the therapy and the doctor is just like, no,
Speaker 3: I'm a brain doctor. I don't care about your feelings.
Speaker 3: Here are some pills. I'm like, no, I'm gonna say
Speaker 3: a bunch of stuff and then at the end you
Speaker 3: unravel it and tell me what's want, Tell.
Speaker 1: Me something, Give me something here. Damn I imagine your
Speaker 1: I don't. I don't even know how this sounds bad.
Speaker 1: Like you're probably really good in psychiatry, like oh, like
Speaker 1: like your book itself is like the writing experience is
Speaker 1: like getting healthy.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's like, look at the ramblings of this crazy person. I,
Speaker 3: unfortunately for both me and my providers, cannot like not
Speaker 3: do a comedy bit the whole time.
Speaker 2: Like I.
Speaker 3: Started an essay for this book and I didn't finish it.
Speaker 3: So we'll see if it ever sees the light of
Speaker 3: day called a Tight sixty, which is basically about my
Speaker 3: hour long comedy route for my various mental health.
Speaker 1: That's hilarious.
Speaker 3: Love that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so so speaking so speaking of COVID and maybe
Speaker 2: if you'll indulge my crassness here being a little crazy
Speaker 2: in that moment. So let's talk about teenagers because I
Speaker 2: live because you have some really helpful tips about how
Speaker 2: people should live with teenagers. So share with us your
Speaker 2: how to guide to living with and raising teenagers.
Speaker 3: I think, well, I think the most important thing. First
Speaker 3: of all, I have to be honest and say I'm
Speaker 3: doing zero raising. I just sort of live adjacent to
Speaker 3: the children. I tried to keep them from making enormous
Speaker 3: mistake that I that I see coming.
Speaker 1: Uh, and I clarify are your wife's children, right?
Speaker 3: I mean, first of all, I live with that fear
Speaker 3: of like, not to get all racial about it, but
Speaker 3: if I ever get into a scrap with these kids,
Speaker 3: right quick wond and blue eyed, if these almosts are like,
Speaker 3: you know, the police immediately, So I don't get into
Speaker 3: it with them because I hate the idea of jail.
Speaker 3: I would never survive. But I think my biggest secret
Speaker 3: is just to act like the coolest person in the
Speaker 3: world who doesn't care about anything. Because if you act
Speaker 3: like you're interested, they they take that power and.
Speaker 1: They'll hate you for it.
Speaker 3: Yeah, they're like, oh, you want to know something about
Speaker 3: my life, Well, here's a tiny little piece that sounds
Speaker 3: like it might be something good. But I'm not going
Speaker 3: to tell you the rest.
Speaker 1: That's more words than I get. So Sam, in your essay,
Speaker 1: you have bits of advice like, do not try to
Speaker 1: engage your bond with them, Yeah, never, never earnestly ask
Speaker 1: for their opinions on anything you like or enjoy. Do
Speaker 1: not give them any books they're going to shoot on them.
Speaker 1: Do not expect thanks, yep, don't talk to their friends.
Speaker 1: And the one like positive you had is do get tattoos.
Speaker 3: Yeah. I have a lot of tattoos. They think they're cool,
Speaker 3: the friends think they're cool. All my tattoos are so dumb,
Speaker 3: so that's that's good. But yeah, I all of the things,
Speaker 3: like all of the things you that would be your
Speaker 3: impulse with a kid, like be sweet to them and
Speaker 3: like ask them about school or ask them about their
Speaker 3: shirt or whatever. They just don't care and they're never
Speaker 3: gonna give you what you want, especially if they can
Speaker 3: like sense that you really want it. So my strategy
Speaker 3: is just to act like they're you know, vaguely interesting
Speaker 3: strangers who I occasionally run into in the kitchen, and
Speaker 3: it works. I have great relationships with them.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I'll say I'll say that the difference when
Speaker 1: you've raised them and they're teenagers, you're just like, damn,
Speaker 1: like I took your ass to that bullshit soccer game
Speaker 1: back when you were seven, and you're not gonna answer
Speaker 1: me right now, like or like you know, like like
Speaker 1: it's all still there, like for real, yes, Like that's
Speaker 1: how you're gonna everything.
Speaker 3: So personally, you guys, keep the part of you that
Speaker 3: wants to just walk around the house pointing out the
Speaker 3: price of everything you've paid for in order to get
Speaker 3: the kids to like shut up in respect.
Speaker 1: So my kids, my kids sometimes listening to this show,
Speaker 1: but even a lot of times they don't. But there
Speaker 1: were many times when they would turn their back and
Speaker 1: I would give them the double middle finger and it
Speaker 1: was great. I would feel a lot better after it,
Speaker 1: just like you know, they wouldn't know, and that was
Speaker 1: like I recommend that to people.
Speaker 3: That's smart.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And I will just admit I have thrown my
Speaker 2: youngest daughter's cell phone against the wall at least once.
Speaker 2: I'm not I'm not proud of it, but it needed
Speaker 2: to happen.
Speaker 3: See that, and I would be which is why it's
Speaker 3: good that I'm not because I wouldn't be able to
Speaker 3: turn that off. I would just be like, oh, you
Speaker 3: don't want to do your homework, Well here go you're
Speaker 3: Jordan's I'm setting them on fire in the front, you
Speaker 3: know what I mean, Like I wouldn't be able to stop.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, Sam, we are going to take one more
Speaker 1: break and we are excited to come back and talk
Speaker 1: to you about Sex and the City. We'll be right back.
Speaker 2: Welcome back to some of my best friends. Are We
Speaker 2: are talking to Sam as In Samantha Irbi and you.
Speaker 2: Sam are one of the writers on the reboot of
Speaker 2: Sex in the City, one of the most popular HBO
Speaker 2: series but also one of the whitest shows white women
Speaker 2: and their sex lives in the history the history of
Speaker 2: serialized television. And so you are part of a reboot
Speaker 2: and just like that that I think now is in
Speaker 2: its second season. We want to talk about like your
Speaker 2: role as a writer in the writer's room. We want
Speaker 2: to hear like how the characters came together. I'll admit
Speaker 2: my wife and I watched the original. We also watched
Speaker 2: the reboot.
Speaker 3: And I hope your wife wasn't one of the many
Speaker 3: people emailing death threats to me. It's okay if she.
Speaker 1: Did, but people were people were emailing you death threats.
Speaker 1: Yeah about I.
Speaker 3: Mean I was like about the like stiletto heel show,
Speaker 3: like are you kidding me? The Funky spunk show, Get
Speaker 3: out of here? Okay. So when when The Room started,
Speaker 3: Michael Patrick King, who is the showrunner and executive producer,
Speaker 3: had already created the characters like the the new pocs.
Speaker 1: So I just want to clarify for people who are
Speaker 1: listening who don't know the show, like me, like, all
Speaker 1: there are three There used to be four white women,
Speaker 1: and then three came back for the reboot. And in
Speaker 1: the reboot, yes, they all got a best friend who
Speaker 1: happened to be a person of color.
Speaker 3: Yes. I just want to say, though, yeah, please in
Speaker 3: the emotional support Black Lady of it All, It's like.
Speaker 1: The version of this story.
Speaker 3: Is there's no other way really to introduce, Like, what
Speaker 3: is the better way to introduce these new characters into
Speaker 3: the show. You have to in order to expand your
Speaker 3: friend group. It's not like we all meet one person
Speaker 3: and we're like, she's in. It's like, no, I'm at
Speaker 3: this girl, she's cool. I'm bringing her to drinks and
Speaker 3: y'all will love her and then they're exchanging numbers over
Speaker 3: drinks and then we're all friends. So I think that
Speaker 3: is more the vibe, that's the fun we're going for,
Speaker 3: rather than like, you know, everyone's emotional mule or whatever.
Speaker 2: I mean, that's fair, But there is this there is
Speaker 2: this way in which it felt as a viewer like, oh,
Speaker 2: this is this post George Floyd moment when this very
Speaker 2: white woman show now has to acknowledge that there are
Speaker 2: no women of color, and now they have them. And
Speaker 2: so that's the beauty of writers, like you can actually
Speaker 2: make these things work.
Speaker 3: Yes, yes, So Michael sort of had, like, you know,
Speaker 3: an outline of who these women were, and then we
Speaker 3: we get to get in there and fill in like
Speaker 3: little details. Let me say, I'm okay a detail I
Speaker 3: added for Naya. I wanted Naya to be the kind
Speaker 3: of person who had only seen one dick in her
Speaker 3: life because she married her like college sweetheart, because that
Speaker 3: is a thing that I think, like, as a culture,
Speaker 3: we haven't really explored much, the like I married my
Speaker 3: best friend at twenty two and now I'm forty two.
Speaker 3: We're divorced, and I don't know how to date, So
Speaker 3: we got into that, like that's a detail, Like we
Speaker 3: added those kinds of things to the characters to make
Speaker 3: them feel more like real people. And you'll get to
Speaker 3: see in the second season like more of their sex lives,
Speaker 3: which is I know there was not enough sex and
Speaker 3: season one for a lot of people, but you're getting.
Speaker 1: It all right. Well, Sam, First of all, congratulations on
Speaker 1: writing this show and being part of it. I mean
Speaker 1: people talk shit about all kinds of things, but you know,
Speaker 1: creating things and telling stories, and especially for people who
Speaker 1: do try to do it for a living like you
Speaker 1: and me, it's like, let's celebrate it all. Don't get
Speaker 1: to tell you have you have like a full time
Speaker 1: job as a professor.
Speaker 2: But Sam, I still tell stories the stud you're the straight.
Speaker 3: Yeah. Can I say something that I don't know is
Speaker 3: maybe controversial.
Speaker 1: But I think we hope.
Speaker 3: So I think there are a lot It was so
Speaker 3: funny to me, the like backlash against Miranda, specifically her
Speaker 3: sort of like learning about racism of it all. I
Speaker 3: feel like it mirrored the journeys of a lot of liberal,
Speaker 3: middle aged white women, right. I mean, black people are
Speaker 3: not reading almost said Ero Mex Candy but you know,
Speaker 3: like I'm not reading that anti racist book because I'm black, right,
Speaker 3: I'm example, I don't have to read it.
Speaker 2: And you don't have a Black Lives Matter sign.
Speaker 3: We have nothing. We don't have a day flag either.
Speaker 3: But it's like, you know, it was so weird to
Speaker 3: me that these women who were walking around with like
Speaker 3: Robin DiAngelo's book and this and that and wearing pink
Speaker 3: pussy hats, and like I watched the documentary about these
Speaker 3: white women who paid to go to a dinner where
Speaker 3: they could be told that they were racist, which I
Speaker 3: think is crazy, But like, are we pretending that that
Speaker 3: didn't happen over the past two years, that there weren't
Speaker 3: tons of like upper middle class white women like trying
Speaker 3: to meet somebody named Shaneida so they could be friends,
Speaker 3: so they could like prove that they cared. It was
Speaker 3: so weird to me that people were like that's unrealistic
Speaker 3: when we just watched it happen. Yeah, yeah, and like,
Speaker 3: hats off to them. I think it's so brave to
Speaker 3: try to learn a new thing or do a new
Speaker 3: thing in your life, particularly when you're over forty years old.
Speaker 3: I don't do anything new, but yeah, I was like,
Speaker 3: this is the exact type of person. We're kind of
Speaker 3: poking fun a little, kind of celebrating her a little.
Speaker 3: But a lot of y'all were running around wearing safety
Speaker 3: pins remember that shit. It's like, come on, she is.
Speaker 2: You No, I think you're you're calling it out. So
Speaker 2: this podcast has explored in so many different ways the
Speaker 2: ways that white people, but also straight people, all sorts
Speaker 2: of people trivialize like the realities of structural racism or
Speaker 2: other forms of oppression and bigotry. So we have a
Speaker 2: question for you. So, do you have some of my
Speaker 2: best friends are story that someone said to you along
Speaker 2: the way that they're not X Y or Z because
Speaker 2: they are friends with X Y or Z.
Speaker 3: Honestly, I don't know that I have one. Like I
Speaker 3: grew up in a progressive place, and all my like
Speaker 3: white friends are progressive people, and my white wife is
Speaker 3: progressive and her white children. You know, the kind of
Speaker 3: people who would already have black friends, you know what
Speaker 3: I mean, like just sort of forward thinking.
Speaker 2: Kind of like kind of like Ben, I get it,
Speaker 2: I get it, like that, like friends who might who
Speaker 2: also might actually be you know, kind of black, depending
Speaker 2: on the moment.
Speaker 3: Ben has a black wife because he talks.
Speaker 1: There you go, ding ding ding ding.
Speaker 2: Yes, I've been waiting for this moment for two years.
Speaker 3: Yes, your life is black.
Speaker 2: Right, The answer is yes, But you said something else
Speaker 2: that's kind of fuddy. So they're they're on Twitter. During
Speaker 2: our first season, one of our our listeners tweeted at us.
Speaker 2: It said, how is it that the white guy who
Speaker 2: seems to have very little credentials, who sounds like a
Speaker 2: black guy gets to have a show when the black
Speaker 2: guy is a Harvard professor, super super educated, and like
Speaker 2: she was basically saying, it's another double America.
Speaker 1: Sweetie and Sam, Sam, we both have to drink now.
Speaker 1: He just said Harvard whoa Hey Sam, So I have
Speaker 1: a I have a last question for you, and it's
Speaker 1: about It's really about your work. I mean, you're you're
Speaker 1: very right, very specifically about your own identity, and your
Speaker 1: work is beloved by all. It's really universal in a
Speaker 1: lot of ways. And why do you think your writing
Speaker 1: resonates with so many different kinds of people?
Speaker 3: Oh? Man, I have not thought this answer out, so
Speaker 3: prepare for it to be embarrassing. I think maybe because
Speaker 3: I write about universally irritating things I don't like. I
Speaker 3: don't have a lot of takes that are particularly hot, right,
Speaker 3: like not about anything that matters, right, like no one
Speaker 3: cares about like the soup at Red Lobster, you know,
Speaker 3: or like whatever would bother me enough to write about it.
Speaker 3: I think it's just like I am honest but always
Speaker 3: working for a laugh. I mean, I'm always like just
Speaker 3: trying to get you to chuckle. And I think people
Speaker 3: appreciate that. And like I'm not preachy or you know,
Speaker 3: I'm not an intellectual, so they don't have to have
Speaker 3: a dictionary handy. I think it just like goes down easy,
Speaker 3: and it's I write into such a conversational way that
Speaker 3: I think people enjoy, like sort of having that silent
Speaker 3: back and forth with me.
Speaker 1: Yeah, my theory on it too. In addition to all
Speaker 1: the things you said, you know, you write about not
Speaker 1: feeling good in your body, You write about these private
Speaker 1: things like everyone except for Khalil obviously feels bad in
Speaker 1: their bodies sometimes or wants to like hide things, and
Speaker 1: yours might sometimes be more extreme, but it like it
Speaker 1: taps into what we're all we're all feeling.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, And like I think I think when I
Speaker 3: was a kid, I was going through so many terrible things.
Speaker 3: I had such a horrible childhood, and you feel so alone.
Speaker 3: And I think one of my goals is has always
Speaker 3: been to just be like, listen, if you're going through
Speaker 3: this kind of stuff, so am I so don't feel alone.
Speaker 3: And maybe you can't laugh about it, but I can.
Speaker 3: I'll make it funny, and I'll like do that for
Speaker 3: both of us. So truly, I just am trying, like
Speaker 3: we're all swimming in the same see a vomit, and
Speaker 3: I'm just trying to like look over and be like, hey,
Speaker 3: this sucks, and have somebody else be like, yeah, it
Speaker 3: does the way you said that.
Speaker 1: The title to your next book dedicated to you too.
Speaker 2: Well, Sam, we we have had so much fun. We've
Speaker 2: gotten to know you in ways that we never thought possible,
Speaker 2: but both by reading your book and also talking to
Speaker 2: you here.
Speaker 3: Welcome and I'm sorry.
Speaker 2: Some of my best friends are. I just want to say,
Speaker 2: I think it's your honesty and your authenticity that is
Speaker 2: so infectious. Thanks so much for being on our show.
Speaker 3: So nice. You guys are the best, the most fun
Speaker 3: I've ever had recording.
Speaker 1: A pot All right, Yes, we get a croud.
Speaker 3: Of clocking Bens Nubie and Queen this.
Speaker 1: Yeah, thank you so much. Yeah, you're wonderful, Sam, thank you, thanks, thanks.
Speaker 3: So much, thank you for having me.
Speaker 1: Wow. Man, Yeah I am. I am thinking about comedy by.
Speaker 2: The way, after I go to the bathroom.
Speaker 1: But anyway, Oh, so you're trying to be like you're
Speaker 1: like the new Samantha Irbie. I love it. I love it.
Speaker 1: You got it, you got it. The essay collection comes
Speaker 1: out soon. Yeah, that's what I want to say. It
Speaker 1: just like comedy is therapy. I just wanted to say,
Speaker 1: like in her life, she talked about how it how
Speaker 1: it sort of protected her and healed her, and just
Speaker 1: how good I feel right now. Uh, you know in
Speaker 1: Dorphin's kicking in it works. H I fucking love Samantha Irby.
Speaker 1: Thank you too.
Speaker 2: And you know what, I just have one callback to
Speaker 2: our final episode last season, The Good, the Bad, the Funny,
Speaker 2: And our biggest critique on that show, which was about
Speaker 2: Dave Chappelle, was that he didn't know the value of
Speaker 2: self deprecating humor. And so there's a moment in this
Speaker 2: conversation when Sam is like, look, you know, talking about
Speaker 2: myself not only helped me protect myself, but it also
Speaker 2: made me really fucking funny, and that is the genius
Speaker 2: of comedy. She was awesome.
Speaker 4: Yeah, all right, Love you man, Love you too.
Speaker 2: Some of My Best Friends Are is a production of
Speaker 2: Pushkin Industries. The show is written and hosted by me Khalil,
Speaker 2: Jabron Muhammad and my best friend Ben Austen.
Speaker 1: It's produced by Lucy Sullivan. Our associate producer is Rachel Yang.
Speaker 1: It's edited by Sarah Nix with help from Keyshel Williams.
Speaker 1: Our engineer is Amanda ka Wang, and our managing producer
Speaker 1: is Constanza Guyardo.
Speaker 2: At Pushkin thanks to Leitol Molatt, Julia Barton, Heather Fain,
Speaker 2: Carly Migliori, John schnarz Retta Cone, and Jacob Weisberg.
Speaker 1: Our theme song, Little Lily, is by fellow chicagoan the
Speaker 1: brilliant Avery R. Young, from his album Tubman. You definitely
Speaker 1: want to check out his music at his website Averyaryong
Speaker 1: dot com.
Speaker 2: You can find Pushkin on all social platforms at Pushkin pods,
Speaker 2: and you can sign up for our newsletter at pushkin
Speaker 2: dot fm. To find more Pushkin podcasts, listen on the
Speaker 2: iHeartRadio app Apple Podcasts or wherever you.
Speaker 1: Like to listen. And if you like our show, please
Speaker 1: give us a five star rating and a review and listen.
Speaker 1: Even if you don't like it, give it a five
Speaker 1: star rating and a review, and please tell all of
Speaker 1: your best friends about it. Thank you, Interesting
Speaker 4: S